These influencers transformed how we approach keto and carnivore living

Discover the voices that revolutionized the ketogenic and carnivore movements in this deep dive into the influencers who shaped our personal health journeys. From world-renowned physicians to everyday heroes who overcame their own health struggles, these are the pioneers who challenged conventional wisdom and offered life-changing alternatives.

Influencer list with links:

1. Shawn Baker MD @ShawnBakerMD
2. Anthony Chaffee MD @anthonychaffeemd
3. Sally K Norton @sknorton
4. Dr. Eric Berg DC  @Drberg
5. KenDBerryMD  @KenDBerryMD
6. Dr. Bret Scher Metabolic Mind @metabolicmind
7. Nick Norwitz @nicknorwitzMDPhD
8. Dr. Georgia Ede - Change Your Diet Change Your Mind - https://a.co/d/fce8dbC
9. Laura Spath  @LauraSpath
10. Dr Tony Hampton @DrTonyHampton 
11. Dr. Hampton's Food Guide: https://www.dietdoctor.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Dr-hampton-Keto-Handout-with-colors.pdf
12. HomeSteadHow @Homesteadhow
13. Dr. Sten Ekberg  @drekber
14. Joanne Ozug - The Road to Carnivore Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-road-to-carnivore/id1565058210
15. Dr Fung - @DrJasonFung
16. Glucose Goddess - Jesse Inchauspe - @GlucoseRevolution
17. Dr Attia - @PeterAttiaMD
18. Dave Asprey - @DaveAspreyBPR

We explore Dr. Sean Baker's groundbreaking work as both a surgeon and elite athlete, explaining how his Rivero Clinic is creating a new paradigm for metabolic health care. Learn why Dr. Jason Fung's insights on intermittent fasting and diabetes reversal resonated so profoundly with Stephen's health journey. Discover the provocative perspective of Dr. Anthony Chafee, who dares to question whether plants truly deserve their universal health halo.

For practical implementation, we highlight Jessie Inchauspé (the Glucose Goddess) and her accessible strategies for managing blood sugar, along with Sally Norton's eye-opening research on oxalates and their potential impact on inflammatory conditions. The methodical explanations from Dr. Berg and straightforward common sense from Dr. Ken Berry demonstrate how different teaching styles can reach people wherever they are on their health journey.

Perhaps most fascinating is the common thread woven through all these influencers' stories—almost universally, they discovered these nutritional approaches through personal crisis or watching their patients continue to deteriorate under conventional care. Their authentic experiences and genuine desire to share knowledge stands in stark contrast to the profit-driven nutrition advice so prevalent today.

Whether you're new to ketogenic eating, a seasoned carnivore, or simply curious about metabolic health, this episode will introduce you to trusted voices who can guide different aspects of your journey. And remember—you're never alone in this process. There's a thriving community of people who have walked this path and are eager to help others experience the same transformation.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Lessons from the Keto-Verse.
Join Stephen and Graham as theyexplore the keto lifestyle with
tips, science and stories toboost your health.
This podcast isn't medicaladvice.
Consult your healthcare advisorfor any health-related issues.
Get ready to fuel your primalpower.

Graham (00:18):
Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of
Lessons from the Keto-Verse.
For this episode, stephen and Ithought we would go back in
time and take a look at whichinfluencers whether it be
YouTube or any social media thathave had the biggest impact on
our keto carnivore journey.

(00:39):
So you know, these people areinfluencers, as they say, who
have the biggest influence on usover the years.
Stephen and I did not do thisjourney all on our own.
We had a lot of materials outthere, whether it was video or
reading or books.
There's actually quite athriving community around the
ketogenic or carnivore dietsmuch, much more than much more

(01:05):
than even 10 years ago.
It's actually surprising howmuch this has grown, even over
the last couple of years.
Stephen, say hi to everybodyand feel free to comment.

Stephen (01:15):
Yeah, I actually agree.
Hi everyone, it's Stephen.
Good to be here for anotherpodcast with Graham and yeah,
it's interesting, as we said inone of our original podcasts, I
believe no-transcript, but theyall resonated with us enough to

(01:59):
want to mention them on today'spodcast.

Graham (02:01):
So I'll kick it off with who I think is probably the or
one of the OG original gangstersof carnivore influencers, and
that is Dr Sean Baker.
So a little background on DrSean Baker.
He's a world champion athlete,an incredible rower In his late
60s.
He's actually broken records.

(02:21):
He's also a surgeon with apretty incredible career.
I highly recommend listening tohis podcast as he is very
transparent about his journey,what he's done as a surgeon in
the military as well as inprivate practice.
And I think one of the thingsthat is going to be a common
theme throughout this podcast isthese influencers found out

(02:43):
about this themselves first.
For the most part, theycertainly would have had some
support as well, but a lot ofthem have been pioneers in this
journey and in a lot of casesyou'll hear the stories from
them saying I knew something waswrong.
I knew I needed to change it.
The current way I was eatingwasn't working for me and I had
to make a change.
And they were kind enough toshare that information with

(03:05):
others, and it has benefitedliterally hundreds of thousands,
if not millions, of people atthis point.
So Dr Baker one of the things Ilike about him, he brings a real
humility and a search for thetruth to his podcasts and videos
.
He's the author of maybe theoriginal carnivore book called
the carnivore diet, in which,which he sold an incredible

(03:26):
number of copies.
I like him because he's aboutsix foot seven, probably 280
pounds, all muscle, but comesacross as somebody who's, like I
said, got some humility abouthim, doesn't claim to have all
the answers.
It is the right thing to do tospread awareness based on what
he's learned, even when thatawareness is controversial, as

(03:47):
it can be with the keto andcarnivore lifestyles.
Anybody who's gone down thispath knows that the reactions
can be pretty entertaining, andwe've covered that off in a
previous podcast and I'm surewe'll talk about that in the
future.
Something that he started morerecently because he realized
that people who wanted to godown this journey were getting
pushback from their healthcareprofessional, and so we're not
here to say don't listen to yourhealthcare professionals, just

(04:10):
the opposite they are animportant element in anybody's
health.
But he started something calledthe Rivero Clinic in the US and
he put together hundreds ofclinicians who specialize in
keto and carnivore metabolichealth, and the idea of starting
this clinic was we're not goingto solely rely on drug
interventions, as is normallythe case in the healthcare

(04:31):
system.
We're also going to look at aholistic approach to people's
diet, their exercise, theirsleep, their ability to manage
stress, all of the things thatwe know along the journey that
are pretty critical to helpingpeople along that journey get a
little better every single day.
Stephen, any comment on Dr SeanBaker or we can jump to someone

(04:55):
who's had a big impact on you.

Stephen (04:58):
Sure, let's go to the first one on my list.
Where I was initially inspiredwas Dr Fung.
He's actually a Torontonephrologist and, yes, I had to
look up nephrologist initiallywhen I read his first book to
find out what that was all about.
And, of course, that's a doctorthat's focused on the health of
the kidneys and specificallyhis area of interest was dealing

(05:20):
with patients that were facingkidney transplant, was dealing
with patients that were facingkidney transplant low
expectation of survival andthere was a bit of an epiphany
that he experienced, graham,when he was working with people
with very severe consequences ofdiabetes.
And, of course, as a diabeticmyself, I was very interested in
how one of the top line thingshe promotes is type 2 diabetes

(05:42):
is a lifestyle disease that canbe reversed.
And one of his points ofinspiration actually ironically
for a man as smart as he is wasactually his patients, because
one of his patients had said tohim Doc, if what you're doing is
working out so good and thethings you're telling me to do
are so and this waspre-intermittent fasting, but

(06:03):
this is how he discoveredintermittent fasting for his
patients.
He's saying, doc, if this stuffis whatintermittent fasting,
but this is how he discoveredintermittent fasting for his
patients.
He was saying, doc, if thisstuff that you have us doing,
the dialysis and the drugs andeverything else, how come I'm
getting fatter and more sick?
And that really struck him andI thought that was inspiring and
he was very transparent as aphysician that he was limited to

(06:23):
some extent to what he wasallowed to do in accordance with
the OMA and so forth.
But he started to color outsidethe lines and do his own
research and discovered, aswe've talked about before, that
intermittent fasting was a partof the lifestyle, even if you
take the spiritual component ofit out and you just focus on how
people lived.
If you were a farmer, thelikelihood of you going through

(06:44):
the day fasting and burning offall those calories is pretty,
pretty, pretty high becauseyou're not coming in until the
fields are cleared and the sun'sgoing down and the tractor's
back in the barn.
So there's an example of a12-12.
He was a big promoter of the16-8.
And if you look at some of hispodcasts, he's had very
exceptional athletes on some ofhis podcasts where they asked

(07:08):
the question you know, am Igoing to lose muscle if I go
into, you know, two, three daysof intermittent fasting.
So that's one edge of what he'stalked about.
But he's also, as a doctor,monitored a gentleman that went
over 300 days.
We're not prescribing that, youdo that.
We're describing what he hadsaid in his book and this
individual was able to get backto a normal weight by cutting
out all the sugars, beingmonitored by his physician, who

(07:35):
was a doctor, and had massiveimprovements in health outcomes
blood screening, kidney function, etc.
So, yeah, he was the very firstone that inspired me.

Graham (07:41):
Yeah, and you've mentioned this a number of times
on the podcast.
I've actually subscribed to hisYouTube channel.
Excellent information, highlyrecommend it.
Next person on my list again noparticular order Dr Anthony
Chafee.
What can I describe about DrAnthony Chafee?
Advanced knowledge of medicinebacks up his knowledge with an
incredibly healthy lifestylehealthy lifestyle.

(08:02):
He's played professional rugbyon the world stage while doing
carnivore, and actually he didit.
He tried it without a carnivore.
More of a sort of standardAmerican diet Could not perform
nearly as well, which was reallyinteresting to watch.
Somebody you know with such ahigh level of fitness and
attention to professional detailaround professional rugby

(08:22):
attention to professional detailaround professional rugby.
He's a neurosurgeon.
He can walk the line betweenintroductory knowledge and very
advanced metabolic medicine.
He might be best known formaybe a shocking comment around
plants are trying to kill you.
He tells a great story aboutthis, much better than I can,
but essentially, when he was inmedical school he had a very

(08:43):
influential professor who said Idon't feed my kids vegetables.
I don't think I should eatvegetables.
They all have toxins in them toward off predators.
It was, you know.
In his opinion, it's worthwhileinvestigating these toxins and
the effect that they potentiallyhave on our bodies.
I know there's this generalconsensus that all sort of
approved vegetables the ones youmight find at the grocery store

(09:05):
are 100% good for you and in noway bad for you.
I think that simplifies things,and we'll talk about other
influencers on this list that gointo detail about this, but I
would say Anthony Chafee.
Dr Anthony Chafee is somebodywho knows his stuff so well that
he's almost a sort of graduateinfluencer, somebody that you

(09:26):
might start with and we'll talkabout this in a bit Dr Ken Berry
, who has this knack forexplaining things in a basic way
even though it's very complex,and with Dr Chafee he really
gets into the advanced metabolicside of things what particular
elements in our society, whetherit be food or not, can have an

(09:46):
influence.
And he comes across as justsuch an incredibly nice guy,
somebody that you'd be happy tohave a coffee and chat with, and
he has been a great influencer.
I've probably listened to 250of his podcasts while walking
around the neighborhood and hehas definitely made a mark on my
journey in a positive way.

Stephen (10:08):
Yeah, that's a great endorsement, Absolutely the
humility side of it.
I certainly resonate.
And my my next choice actuallyon the list is Dr Anthony, is
not one that I've specificallyfollowed other than what you've
suggested specifically followedother than what you've suggested

(10:28):
, but for me it's got to be whatpeople typically call the
Jessie the glucose goddess.
She's one of my personalfavorites.
That's Jessie Nuchospe and Iapologize, Nuchospe is, I
believe, the appropriatepronunciation in French.
She is actually a bioscientistby trade.
They call her the glucosegoddess because her focus
primarily is around how tomanage insulin resistance and to

(10:53):
eliminate glucose spikes.
Like if you were forced into anelevator pitch about Jessie,
that would probably be the twomain things, Graham, that I
would say about her.
And why I like her is becauseI'm a keto you're a carnivore,
so when I'm approaching mydiabetes with the food that I'm
consuming, getting a wholespectrum of good foods into my

(11:15):
system.
I was very interested andintrigued by her conversation
around two core things.
One, ACV, apple cider vinegar,which is taking in with eight
ounces of water, and I do italso with lemon.
If you are exposed, she's a bigexpert on carbohydrates and
reducing carbs in the diet.
But if you're exposed to a mealwhere you're required to eat

(11:37):
carbs because of familyobligations, with friends, or
just a very limited menu whichhappens, as we both know,
friends, or just a very limitedmenu, which happens, as we both
know Then one of the things youcan do actually is consume eight
ounces of water with atablespoon or two of ACV.
Add the lemon if you wish.
I do, and that will take, and Irepeat, 3% to 75% of the spike

(12:00):
out of your sugar.
And because I wear a CGM, I'vetested this and it does work.
I don't eat a lot of carbs, butwhen I do, or if I'm forced to,
I make sure that I have the ACVand I'll go flat.
Now, an hour, an hour and ahalf later, it'll start to rise,
but not to a spike, whereas ifI forget and I'm exposed to

(12:22):
something or I'm not payingattention to what I'm consuming,
then obviously it goes muchhigher.
So I really like that strategy.
The other thing she talks aboutresonates with my ethnicity,
because in my family we alwaysate the salad first and then
there was a space of time andthen we consumed the main meal.

(12:44):
And what's interesting is whata lot of restaurants do is
they'll actually feed you breadfirst and then they'll bring
your salad and then they'llbring you your main course.
The problem with the bread is,within 15 or 20 minutes you're
getting a sugar spike whichtends to make you overeat and
order more food.
So what she speaks to is calledstacking, and also she uses the

(13:06):
expression I think it's to makesure people are paying attention
of naked carbs is not toconsume carbs by themselves.
Have them coupled with aprotein, a healthy fat, like
Greek yogurt, and again you'llnormalize those spikes.
You'll take those spikes out bynot eating in isolation.
So I really applaud her for herresearch because it's all

(13:28):
backed by papers that sheunderstands in ways of meta
analysis and longitudinalstudies in a way that I wouldn't
necessarily understand, but shedoes, and she, much like your
previous example, explains it invery simple terms, kind of like
the way that Ken Berry does.
There are other folks on ourlist you and I both have them
where they'll get intomitochondria, telomeres, cell

(13:51):
division, antophagy and othermore sophisticated terms.
But I like the fact that you goon a TikTok and in 10 seconds
or 12 seconds you get a new tipon something you can employ
today in your diet managementand your glucose management.

Graham (14:05):
Excellent.
And next one on my list issomeone by the name of Sally K
Norton.
This was not somebody that Ihad caught early on, but I had
talked to, and she wasinterviewed by Dr Anthony Chafee
and a number of otherinfluencers that I admired and
respected.
And that's often how thesethings happen you end up
attaching yourself toinfluencers that you feel and
respected, and that's often howthese things happen.
You end up attaching yourselfto influencers that you feel

(14:28):
like you have a connection with,they're speaking your language
or they are the right person atthe right time on your journey
to kind of guide you with.
You know as much informationthat will help you achieve
whatever goal you have.
And Sally wrote a book calledToxic Superfoods.
You know really interestingtitle, and I did end up reading

(14:50):
the book.
You know a lot of these books.
I ended up binging while I waswalking and, for those that
don't love to sit still and read, I'm a big fan of getting out
there and going for a walk inthe neighborhood and listening
to books.
You know, audible or whatever.
Wherever you get your audiobooks from, reading them is
fantastic too.
Sally actually did thedictation for this book, so that

(15:13):
was really interesting to hearher own words with her voice.
Toxic Superfoods is all aboutgoing into a great deal of
detail about what potentialtoxins might be in certain foods
, mainly vegetables, and thisgoes back to the connection with
Dr Anthony Chafee.
She goes into an incredibleamount of detail on things like

(15:34):
oxalates, which I had neverheard of until I stumbled upon
this book.
It actually explained a numberof things around.
When you start out on a keto ora carnivore diet, what can
happen is you have this keto flu, as people call it.
One of the causes of that isyou're flushing a lot of water
that has been kept in the bodyand the cells and the body is

(15:57):
finally ready to get rid of thatwater because it no longer
needs it anymore.
One of the things that happensthere is you can lose
electrolytes, which are criticalto the body's function, and so
backfilling with some reallygood electrolytes can be
important, and she goes intosome detail there.
But she goes into an incredibleamount of detail around oxalates
, and oxalates are somethingthat the body has a very, very

(16:20):
hard time getting rid of.
They are on a lot of verycommon vegetables that you would
find in the grocery store,whether it be spinach, sweet
potatoes, cashews, almonds,beets it's a long list and
actually in the book she givesyou a long list of the foods
with oxalates, for example.
So she has a lot of informationthat you can actually take home
with you and use, and she talksabout the amount of oxalates in

(16:42):
each of these foods Spinach,for example.
If you're having a spinachsmoothie every single day, I
highly recommend reading thisbook just to get some education
on what those oxalates canpotentially do, whether it
causes joint pain, inflammationor even kidney stones, which is
something that, again, I had notheard of until I read this book
.

(17:03):
Very, very an excellent book toread.
A lot of information in it, andshe was certainly somebody you
know, I've listened to over theyears and that book has played a
big part in me choosing thekind of foods I eat and how much
of those foods I eat.
Stephen.

Stephen (17:19):
That's a really good example.
I'll have to look into thatmyself.
On oxalates, because you know,as a keto person, I use a lot of
olive oil with any salads.
I make everything by scratchand purchase, whenever possible,
Local produce.
I deal with local farmers.
I today picked up somevegetables at the local

(17:41):
Mennonite location, where I knowwhere it's from field to fork
Same with the meats that theyhave in there are quite
excellent along with my butcherwho gets some of the same
locales for his meats.
So I'm definitely keen to readmore about that and, as I say,
for me in particular, I try tomake sure anything that I

(18:03):
consume is complementing my gutbacteria, which it might be
appropriate for me to jump mylist a little bit and settle in
on Dr Berg, who is one of mypersonal favorites, and the
reason why I'm such a huge fanof him is again that dimension
of humility.
I do find it somewhat of achallenge now that he can't be

(18:26):
as transparent because thealgorithms are blocking his
videos and preventing him fromsaying certain things, but I
guess what I really appreciatedabout him, particularly as an
initiate in dealing with mydiabetes, is the fact that he
explains things well.
I'm pretty scientificallyoriented when it comes to that

(18:46):
kind of information.
I'm by no means a doctor, but Ilike the way in which he
explains how things work,because I learn better
understanding that and then Iapply it.
So for me, the way he explainsthings for instance, what
statins would do, how they cancontribute to muscle wasting and
then I see it in my own parentswho've been taking statins for

(19:06):
decades Things like that that hespeaks to and gives you
alternatives that are morenatural, without the side
effects, and that's a big Ithink that's a big aspect of
what Dr Berg does for me is togive me the option to look at
things that are not ozempic, forinstance, to lose weight but
look at anti-inflammatory foods,look at your gut health and

(19:29):
make sure that you're notsuffering from different forms
of lactosaccharides, forinstance, One of the key things
that you had mentionedconcerning intermittent fasting.
That can happen as well, notjust in terms of electrolytes,
but also that the wrongconsequences and I see it in
cortisol with me specifically,if my gut health isn't balanced
properly and my gut, call them,the gut bugs are distressed or

(19:53):
just stressed, that's actuallycontributing to cortisol and
obviously impacting your abilityto properly process the foods
that you're taking in anyway.
So if, for instance, you areeating spinach, as I do, and
other things, you want to have abulletproof belly, you know,
taking full advantage of all thegoodness that's in it, and have
the mechanisms in place to dealwith anything that may or may

(20:15):
not be what you expected and youand I can't see in that
purchase.
That's what I really enjoyabout Dr Berg.
How about you?
I know you're a fan as well.
Grant.

Graham (20:26):
Yeah, this is one that we both came up with
independently.
Dr Berg, I mean, he is reallywell known.
I think I checked today just toremind myself, 13 million
subscribers on YouTube, 5,000videos that he's put out, and
you know I often listen to himon a podcast, whether it be
Spotify, apple podcast orwherever you listen to him, I'm

(20:48):
sure he's everywhere.
What I like about him is hecovers a wide array of topics,
whether it's improved sleep, howto optimize how your skin looks
and feels, what foods andsupplements you may want to take
to see if you can reduce oreven fix certain ailments that
you might be experiencing, likereducing inflammation, for

(21:09):
example, certain ailments thatyou might be experiencing, like
reducing inflammation, forexample.
Like the other people we'velisted, they've personally
benefited from their journey.
He often goes into detail abouthow he was getting more and
more metabolically sick as timewent on, and he has dedicated
himself to trying to share thatinformation with others.

(21:30):
One big benefit I suppose withDr Berg is videos or audio
podcasts are quite short.
A lot of times they're, youknow, less than 10 minutes.
He gets right to the point andhe covers such a wide array of
topics, but if you listen to himlong enough, you start to see
that there's a connection in thethings that he talks about.
So and I mean this in a goodway he will repeat himself in
different videos, coming at itfrom different angles.

(21:51):
It's a great strategy andsomebody that I constantly
listen to and, you know, add tomy long list of things to try
and do.
So next on my list, this issomebody who was a big influence
to me right at the beginning.
This is Dr Ken Berry, fairlywell-known a doctor that has got

(22:15):
into the carnivore way of lifeagain because he had experienced
metabolic problems as he gotolder, closer to our age, and he
decided he was going to trysomething different and ended up
trying something different.
So he's extremely well-known inthe carnivore space.
You know Sean Baker, anthonyChafee as well.
All the people we mentioned aregoing to be relatively well

(22:38):
known in this space, and if Ihad to pick one person that I
would recommend to start with.
If you're thinking about thisjourney and again it might just
be that I want to learnsomething new, I want to learn
something different it doesn'tmean you have to listen to what
you.
It doesn't mean you have tofollow what you listen to, but
you just want to get educated inwhat's going on from an actual

(23:00):
doctor who's not only tried totry this lifestyle himself and
been very successful.
He's willing to talk about itand he has also helped thousands
and thousands, tens ofthousands of people get better
over time, and he has a ton ofstories that he shares, as well
as a ton of interviews of peoplesharing their stories and the

(23:20):
success that he's looked at.
What I like about him is he hasthis knack for breaking down
complex issues into simplepieces of information that are
kind of easy to digest.
No pun intended, I would say,just a common sense approach.
That really resonated with meand my wife as well.
It's pretty clear he genuinelycares about his patients, and

(23:41):
that's a theme throughout this.
He was tired of seeing them getworse and wanted to do
something about somebody that Iadmire a lot, somebody that has
a knack for deliveringinformation in a way that makes
total sense and has genuinehumility when it comes to
people's journeys and howdifficult it can be, and I found

(24:03):
him to be a real prize ofinformation in my journey.
I think he might have been onyour list even as well.

Stephen (24:15):
Yeah, dr Ken Berry, it's like one of the things I
think we may have shared in thepast with readers, but I'll just
touch on again Again.
I like looking at thebackstories of the people.
Like pretty much everyone I'vementioned has, either through a
patient or by their ownexperience, been in the same
boat as you and I, which isremarkably common.
You know, I hear Ken many timestalk about SAD.
You know, the situation in theUS is SAD.

(24:37):
That's a standard American diet.
It's making everyone sick.
Well, it's a North Americandiet because it applies to both
the US and Canada, for sure, and, I think, a lot of Western
countries.
The quality of food is reallynot there.
But I love his backstory wherehe, as a doctor, you know, was
prescribing metformin and doingall the things that he was
instructed to do as per the USDiabetes Association.

(25:02):
He's now created his ownassociation, which is not the
Diabetes Association.
He's created his own why?
Because he was very, veryfrustrated with what it was they
were promoting and the irony ofironies, like he, I saw what is
probably my favorite podcast ofthe list of everyone.
He said hey, people would tellme, doc, I feel worse, like I

(25:22):
don't feel better.
I'm taking those pills.
I got all kinds of side effectsand he said I would look at
them and go well, you know whatIn my head he said I wasn't
saying it to them, they're justnot taking the pills properly.
There's other things they'redoing that they're not telling
me.
It's their own fault.
All that changed when he waseither pre-diabetic or diabetic

(25:42):
and went uh-oh.
And then when he started doingthe same for himself as he was
doing for his patients, hesuddenly got more sick and
really sick, and realized youknow, I was selling a bill of
goods to my patients, which hehas obviously a high degree of
ethics.
He was only promoting what hewas told to promote and what he
was taught.
He didn't know what he didn'tknow, but when he experienced it

(26:03):
, he quickly vectored in adifferent direction and that's
something I admire.
Certainly he's more carnivorethan keto, but he does speak to
both.
So don't be afraid, as astarting point is a keto person
as well.
He does speak to that andyou'll see that whatever works
for you will be able to adjust.
To myself, he's definitely morein your face when it comes to

(26:32):
uh, you know, going against thegrain and tell them the, the
poison food purveyors that areright there, that they're
offside and they shouldn't bedoing what they're doing and
they're hurting people.
He's not afraid to say that,whereas I think you and I would
agree, dr berg's approach is alittle bit more more laid back
and I would say he is not quiteas militant about conveying his

(26:53):
thoughts.
I see him more as a coach thanI do as a health practitioner,
even though he has all of thecredentials.
So that's my two cents.

Graham (27:01):
Yeah, agreed, and the American Diabetes Society that
he has started.
I don't have any more recentupdates on that, but I like the
fact that he's calling out theDiabetes Association.
On some of the things that tome don't make a lot of sense,
like how much you know big fooddonates to the Diabetes
Association, he's verytransparent about the fact that

(27:25):
you know no food companies aregoing to influence what they
have to say, and I'm lookingforward to seeing where that
ends up.
I think the motivation isdefinitely in the right
direction.
Over to you next on your list,stephen.

Stephen (27:38):
Yeah, I just want to briefly bring up Dr Accia.
I've heard him recommended andseen him, consequently, on
podcasts, if ever there was aquestion.
If Google's listening, for surethey are, because I start
getting push notifications nowthat I'm reading his book.
And one of the things that issimple but profound to me and
often the most simplest thingsare the most profound is he

(28:00):
speaks to the culture of wherewe look at saying, hey, graham,
I want to live to 100.
And he's more in the longevityside of things.
And he's more in the longevityside of things and he's saying,
hey, who wants to live to their100 and the last 19 years of
their life be absolutelymiserable, where they have to be
craned up out of their bed andput into a wheelchair and then

(28:21):
craned back up and put intotheir bed.
That's not a quality of life.
So one of the important thingsthat he focuses on, which really
aligns with my mindset, whichis a holistic approach to
everything, be it meditation,diet, sleep, reducing alcohol,
reducing cortisol or cortisolrelated stressors.

(28:41):
He is very much into healthspan.
So he looks at okay, you know,you can't go in and have an
amazing meal and then sit downand have two packs of smokes.
It doesn't work like that.
One isn't going to counter theother and balance out.
It doesn't work like that.
We're an ecosystem and for somany years in medicine we've

(29:01):
looked at the body like it's amachine.
It's not a Corvette engine.
It can't be tuned up the sameway as simply changing the oil
and the valve sleeves andeverything's good and it runs
great again.
Because the damage that we doto our bodies we talked
previously about a differentauthor and psychiatrist the body
keeps the score.
The body does keep the score,so you don't want to have too

(29:24):
many goals against if you wantto keep a w.
And he talks about that wholehealth span and he's also, if
you've ever seen him, he's alsoin very good physical condition.
He lives his values the sameway as Dr Berg and Dr Berry and
definitely more of a quality oflife.
I would say quality of life andlife health span instead of

(29:45):
lifespan, kind of a practitioner.

Graham (29:49):
Yeah, I finished his most recent book, Top of my head
.
Can't remember the name of ityou might remember Steven but
found it to be very informative.
He's got a great way ofdelivering the information and
clearly has spent a lot of timethinking about the topics that
he discusses, so definitelysomebody to check out.

Stephen (30:07):
Yeah, just do a quick search on healthspan versus
lifespan.
And, dr Adia, it's A-T-T-I-Aand that'll pull up the book
that you're referencing.
But I read it a few months agoand I don't recall what the
cover title was, but it'ssomething close to that.

Graham (30:21):
Yeah, might have the word longevity in it.
Regardless, we're going toleave links to all the people
that we talk about today, so youcan find them on YouTube and,
obviously, google anyinformation that you'd like to
find on them, should any of themresonate with you.
Next on my list is somebody bythe name of Dr Brett Scher,
b-r-e-t, and the last name isS-C-H-E-R.

(30:42):
He works for a company calledthe Metabolic Mind, which is a
research-based institute tryingto fund research that will help
people understand the impact offoods on metabolic health and
mental health, and I thinkthere's going to be a theme with
a couple of people.
Here is as I started on thisjourney, there was a goal to try

(31:05):
and fix my blood work and getmyself back into a spot where I
wasn't going to be issueddiabetes medicine.
Down the road, I could see thetea leaves and I could see where
I was going, and I didn't wantto go down that path, and that
was my wake up call as I duginto the potential impacts that
a change in your eatinglifestyle can have.

(31:28):
Specifically, around theketogenic or the carnivore diet
is the impact on mental health,and we've actually talked about
this a number of times.
Interestingly, the metabolicmind is founded by the Buzuki
Group, and the Buzuki GroupB-A-Z-U-C-K-I was founded by the
gentleman who invented RobloxR-O-B-L-O-X.

(31:50):
The online game made a ton ofmoney, obviously was very
successful decided to use someof that money to do some actual
research on the impact ofmetabolic health, as well as
mental health, on the way youeat.
I think this is so importantbecause, as we probably know,
most of the funding of thesethings come from big food and

(32:10):
big pharma and there's a reasonfor that they're incredibly
expensive to do properly.
So you know, double-blindplacebo type research is
incredibly expensive, takes along time, and this is something
that Dr Brett shares on aregular basis, and he comes
across as somebody who's veryinquisitive about different
topics.
You can probably search him andsearch a mental illness or some

(32:34):
kind of mental challenge thatpeople have, and the Bazooka
group may be looking atsolutions to this, and he
actually talks about real worldsolutions that may or may not
have a positive impact, butthey're not difficult to do.
I remember he had talked to aresearcher who had found out
that for those people that aresuffering from dementia and it

(32:56):
may be specific kinds ofdementia, but people who are
suffering from dementia.
When they started to introducecoconut oil or MCT oil, which is
kind of the core fat of coconutoil, there was a direct
improvement on the dementia ofthose patients.
And I think, well, that's apretty easy thing to try.
You know, we know for the mostpart coconut oil can be very

(33:18):
healthy.
And he just comes up with thesethings and I always find it
very interesting.
So Dr Brett Scher is somebodythat you know, definitely one of
those modern scientific studyresearchers who you know
actually partakes in researchthat produces outcomes that
aren't going to benefit anybodyother than the patients that may
benefit from a change in diet.

(33:39):
And I'm going to sort of tiethis one with the following
individual, because they're verysimilar but they come at things
from a different perspective, Iwould say.
So the next one is Nick Norwitz, n-o-r.
Nick is a or Dr Norwitz is aHarvard-trained MD and he also
has a PhD from Oxford.
So definitely one of thesmartest people you'll ever come

(34:00):
across.
Very young, I'm going to guess.
He's in his mid to late 20s.
Has a ton of enthusiasm aroundall matters metabolic health, as
I said, incredibly smart, digsinto the minute details around
the impact of metabolic healthand food.
He does some fun things, youknow, on purpose, catches some

(34:22):
shocking headlines.
He did one a couple of monthsago where he just ate a ton of
Oreo cookies to prove that hecould lower his LDL.
And he talks a lot aboutstatins and he talks a lot about
how we may not be coming atthese things from all the angles
that we need to.
So if you're looking forsomebody who's really advanced,
if you yourself is a, you know,top-notch researcher and you'd
love to get into those, thatlevel of details or that

(34:43):
advanced level of detail, nickNorwitz is somebody that I
highly recommend checking out.
Steve.

Stephen (34:48):
Yeah, it's interesting.
We've covered a number ofissues, but just going back to
gut health, just a few weeks agoDwayne the Rock Johnson came
clean about issues he was havingwith his stomach, which mimic
exactly what I was feeling andin my case, as we talked about
in the past, I had fourdysbiotic bacteria that had to

(35:10):
be killed and that was theresult of a stool test.
And then, concurrent with that,I consume what they call
baker's yeast or digestive yeast, and chia and flax seeds and
other things to promote good guthealth, along with Greek yogurt
that has high fat and near zerosugar, or the lowest possible

(35:33):
sugar I could find.
So what's interesting is he wasbouncing around doctors as well
and ended up in front of arelatively famous one in the US,
and that's when they discoveredthrough these tests that in
fact, his issue was that thepast use of antibiotics had
permanently destroyed I shouldsay permanently, but up until

(35:54):
that point it was permanent andhe didn't know why he felt so
bad and, as he said, he had likenine months of potential
filming for the next film thathe was going to be doing and he
wasn't sure how he was going todo it.
I am totally in that camp.
I can totally relate to whathe's saying.
There were days I wasn't surehow I was even going to be able
to get downtown for a meetingand get back again without just

(36:14):
literally not eating, you know,for one, two, three days, and
that's, by the way, that's notintermittent fasting, that's
forced fasting under stress,which is going to raise your
cortisol, not the way to goabout it.
So, as it turned out, theydiscovered that he had these
dysbiotic bacteria orunderdeveloped bacteria, and
then got that rectified.

(36:35):
So it's interesting that evenfamous people like that have
everyday, normal issues that wehave because we're all consuming
the same sort of foods, we'reall under stress and even if
you're the rock, your stomachisn't made of rock.
It could be your weakness.

Graham (36:49):
It's funny you mentioned that too, because I've heard a
number of people that areconnected to call it Hollywood
or the music industry, and yousee people losing weight and you
automatically think they're onOzempic, because that's what
everybody's doing.
But what's really interestingis they'll say you know what I'm
not going to go into detailabout the names because I'm
friends with these people andthey are they're very much deep

(37:11):
inside these industries andthey'll come back and say,
without mentioning names, thereare so many people that have
gone carnivore or ketovore totry and avoid getting on
medications to see whether theycan get results.
And they're getting results.
But they may not be tellinganybody.
They're doing it because theyhave careers that they need to
worry about.

(37:31):
Obviously, the public perceptionof them goes a long way to
whether they're going to makemoney or not.
So, to your point, you can be amillionaire or somebody just
making ends meet and you'regoing to have very similar
health issues if we eat in asimilar way.
I think we have the next one incommon.
Did you want to lead us offwith Dr Sten Ekberg?
Stephen, I think we have thenext one in common.
Did you want to lead us?

Stephen (37:51):
off with Dr Sten Ekberg .
Stephen, yeah, for sure, thankyou.
I believe Sten, if memoryserves correctly, is an Olympian
, so right away he has massivephysical health street creds.
So if you're an elite athlete,why not listen to an elite
athlete who's also a doctor andhe is definitely more, in my
mind at least more of abioscientist as well?

(38:12):
He is very effective with hiscall it whiteboards or clear
boards, where he will make outcells and show you what a
telomere is and how a cell dies.
He'll get into deep dyes, intoantophagy, as a result of
fasting.
What kicks you out of fasting?
He doesn't necessarily focus asmuch on, just say, for instance

(38:36):
, diabetes, although I havewatched specific videos on that.
Again, he is more in my mind,more looking at healthspan and
saying these are the things thatyou need to do.
This is what orange juice isdoing to you in the morning, for
instance, if you're consumingit, and this is how many hours
you're going to continue to bemetabolically challenged to get
your sugar back under control.

(38:57):
Obviously, I don't consumeorange juice.
There are other things that canmake my sugar do that.
So I really like him.
He's very typical European ifyou've ever had a European
professor style approach toteaching.
It's methodical, it's wellthought out, it's thorough, but

(39:17):
it doesn't have the same kind ofpassion that Ken Berry feels
like he'll reach right throughyour screen if he catches you
with a disgusting plate of friesor something like that, whereas
Ekberg is more of a cerebralapproach to teaching you what's
actually going on in your body.
So different approaches,equally effective, and I like

(39:37):
them both for different reasons.

Graham (39:40):
Yeah, it's a great overview and, unlike Dr Berg
that we talked about earlier,this is Dr Sten Ekberg.
Again, we'll link all thedetails in the show notes
Incredibly well thought outvideos and he explains the way
he sort of introduces something,the way he discusses the

(40:08):
metabolic process that'sactually happening in your body,
right down to the cell level,which may sound boring, he has a
way of making it not boring andhighly recommend checking him
out.
This is somebody with 5 millionsubscribers on YouTube, a ton
of easy digest videos, or easyto digest videos like a top 10
healthy foods you should eat.

(40:29):
I consumed those videos likethere was no tomorrow because
I'd realized you know thehealthy granola bar or energy
bar that supposedly was good forme.
It wasn't working me and Ineeded better information for
myself.
He was a great source of thatinformation.
He was the one who taught methat sure, I could give up this

(40:51):
food and switch over to bananas,but just so you know, the
banana has the same amount ofsugar as a bottle of pop.
So he's very, I guess, like yousaid, that Northern European
matter of fact approach.
But I appreciate that approachbecause he's not beating around
the bush, he's just telling itlike it is, but he never comes
across as somebody who's preachy, and so I definitely highly

(41:14):
recommend Dr Sten Ekberg as well.
The next person that I had on mylist and these will get a
little quicker because theinfluence is less definitely
enormous, you know, with thisexception, Dr Georgia Ede is
somebody she actually I couldn'tfind a YouTube link so I'm
guessing she doesn't have aYouTube channel but she is

(41:34):
extremely well known in thesecircles, whether it's Ketovor or
Carnivore, and she's somebodyinteresting because she is a
Harvard trained psychiatrist andhas had an incredible career
treating people, I guess, from astandard approach to psychiatry

(41:55):
, and you can tell she genuinelyagain, this is the theme but
she genuinely cares about herpatients, about her patients,
and she tells the story betterthan I did in her book, and I'll
talk about that in a second.
How, again, she was the one whorealized okay, I'm in a pretty
good shape, I've got a decentjob, I understand psychiatry,
Certainly.
She understands the medicalcommunity as good or better than

(42:17):
anybody else.
She started to realize she wassuffering from certain things,
whether they be physical ormental, and she wanted to get to
the bottom of what was going on, for the sole purpose,
obviously, of helping herselfbut so she could help others.
And the culmination of all ofthat effort is a book that she

(42:38):
wrote called Change your Diet,Change your Mind.
This came out in I believe yourDiet, Change your Mind.
This came out in, I believe,2024 or early 2025, but I
believe it was 2024.
Yes, it was, and so I think Iread this book in four days.
I purposely went out to walkjust to hear this book, you know

(42:59):
, more times than I normallywould, and it was by far my
favorite book of 2024.
Incredibly well-written,incredibly well-researched
Floors the impact of food onmental health specifically.
She does get into some you knowthe metabolic side of things,
but what she does a great job ofmaking the connection of and

(43:20):
this is something that I've hadin my training as well is they
used to think that if somebodyhad a mental illness whether it
was anxiety, depression, anynumber of challenges they used
to think that that had anegative impact on your
microbiome and that's why youwere having metabolic problems
in the gut.
She does a great job of makingthe connection and this is

(43:42):
starting to become commonknowledge, surprisingly, in the
psychiatric world starting to isthat it's the other way around
when you are metabolically sick,it can potentially have an
impact on your mental illness.
So we talked about this in thelast episode.
Ketogenic diets were designedto try and treat epilepsy and it
was having a positive impact ontreating epilepsy, and then

(44:06):
they decided to go anotherdirection, with drugs, for
whatever reason you can come tothe conclusion of.
But she makes an incrediblecase for the fact that what you
eat is going to have an impacton how your mind feels, and
Change your Diet, Change yourMind is such a perfect title
Tons of solid research, tons ofreferences to real research that

(44:27):
you can read, and you canactually go in and read the
studies that she references.
And the other thing that I likeabout her guide is there's a ton
of guides to self-improvementthat you can download from the
book and you can take these anduse them in a way that can
benefit you.
And I love the fact that shedoesn't necessarily push any

(44:49):
particular diet.
What she's talking about is weneed to get these foods out of
the diet, and she recommendscertain you know lifestyle
changes that I think anybodycould actually entertain.
You don't have to be acarnivore, you don't have to be
on the ketogenic diet.
You can be a vegetarian andyou're gonna benefit from this

(45:09):
book.
If you know somebody that hasany sort of challenges around
mental health, and unfortunatelythat's so rampant today, highly
recommend picking this book up.
It can not only change yourlife, but you may be able to
have an impactful change on afriend or loved one that's close
to you as well.
Stephen.

Stephen (45:28):
Well, that sounds great .
Yeah, I've read other pieces ofwork, scientific reports on the
brain-belly or the gut-brainconnection, and it resonates
with me because I've read othermaterials and I think our
readership or listenership willresonate as well.
As you know how you get thatgut feeling.
You've got a lot, a lot ofneurons in your stomach.

(45:52):
You got even more, you know, inyour heart.
So these feelings that we getare actually all connected.
We're not an isolated entity,we're an integrated one because
the gut biome in us is alive,one because the gut biomen is
alive, the bacteria on our skinis alive, and if any one of
those is not symbioticallyaligned, then there are

(46:13):
potential short, medium andlong-term consequences.

Graham (46:16):
So the food yeah and yeah, go ahead Great great point
and I'd love to jump in,stephen, before you finish,
because a lot of people don'trealize that there's something
called the vagus nerve V-A-G-U-S.
The vagus nerve is thecommunication nerve between the
brain and the gut.
Your brain and your gut areconstantly talking to each other

(46:37):
.
Do we need food?
Do we not need food?
If you are becomingmetabolically sick in the gut,
it's sending messages to thebrain that things aren't going
well.
That can actually create somestress and the communication is
back and forth.
But that vagus nerve issomething that has such an
impact on our lives.
Most people have no idea howbig that impact is and I only

(47:00):
hope people get to the pointwhere they can realize what
healthy feels like, because bothyour gut and your brain
actually benefit from that.
Sorry to cut you off, Stephen.

Stephen (47:09):
That's actually a good point because, as a patient with
chronic IBS, essentially it's afeedback loop on a racetrack.
So that racetrack is today I'mreally super stressed out.
My stomach goes.
Hey, we seem to be stressed out.
Maybe we won't keep this foodafter all.
How about we just go ahead anddump everything that's in your
stomach and push all that bloodfrom the stomach back into the

(47:32):
muscles, because it seems likemaybe we're getting chased by a
dinosaur or something to thateffect?
And then the inverse can happenas well, as the stomach biome's
a little bit off and thebrain's going.
Hmm, this is interesting.
I'm not getting the chemicals Ineed.
Ergo, my brain feels sick andI'm exhibiting symptoms like
anxiety, which again isexacerbating the IBS, and now

(47:54):
I'm depressed and I'm angry andfrustrated after the fact
because, again, the quality oflife is negatively impacted.
So this consistent, consciousand subconscious loop, as you
said, is rooted around thecommunication and the vagus
nerve and that triggers thesympathetic and parasympathetic
systems which we've talked aboutbefore your fight or flight
response.

(48:14):
So if you're in a constantstate of inflammation, either
from the food that you're eating, which is causing inflammation,
which is making your brain go Igot brain fog.
I can't do this, I can't dothat.
And then you layer in the factthat the quality of your diet is
so poor, you're not getting theproper nutrition, you're not
feeding your brain, you're notfeeding your body, ergo, you're
compounding the problem.
So when you start layering onall those pieces, you go, wow,

(48:36):
that's a lot.
But the nice thing iseverything we've talked about
tonight.
If you unlayer those pieces andyou start taking proper care of
your diet, if you do meditation, if you practice good sleep
cycles to ensure you're notincreasing your cortisol in your
sleep, if you recognize yourinsulin will be lower at night
and so eat less meals and eatprotein-dense meals three, four

(48:58):
hours before you retire for theevening and don't snack, eat in
your specific window.
That's literally taking all ofthe advice that we've talked
about tonight in theirrespective pieces and applying
it as a lifestyle.
To do what?
Not increase your longevity,but increase your health span,
so that in your later years inyour life, as Dr Adias says,

(49:21):
you're living that much betterand you're acting and behaving.
Your body might say, or thebirthday clock might say, you're
80, but physiologically andmetabolically you could be 60 or
50 years of age.

Graham (49:34):
Yeah, well said, one of the things that probably anybody
who's gone down this path hasrealized at some point that
moment you eat something andI'll just use ribeyes, we've
often used that example becauseit's it's high fat.
I believe it's a fat to proteinratio of 50% the the feeling

(50:00):
that you have once you've eatenas much steak as you can eat
before it's you know you stopwanting to eat it anymore.
The satisfaction for the restof the night.
It's incredibly calming to thebrain.
It's incredibly calming to yourstress levels, and what that is
is your stomach going.
We've got meat, and myunderstanding is eating a ribeye

(50:23):
actually triggers the sameGLP-1 receptors that something
like Ozempic does, which slowsdown your digestive process.
It's essentially telling yourbrain we got the best food in
the world.
As far as I'm concerned, wedon't have to worry about eating
for the next 12, 24 hours, 36hours.
If we don't want to, you goahead and do whatever you need

(50:44):
to fix the rest of the body.
We don't need to eat any morefor a while and that calming
feeling is hard to explain.
Not being hungry, as we talkedabout in the unexpected outcomes
of carnivore and keto diets,not being hungry is an
incredible experience to have,and it's unfortunately something
that not everybody gets toexperience.

Stephen (51:05):
That whole analogy applies well to our ancestors
Sitting around a campfire tostay warm at night.
Their bellies are full and sotherefore they don't have to
worry about the stress of goingout and hunting at night and
becoming the hunted so where thevery things that they're
hunting can see them and cancatch up to them way faster than

(51:27):
they can see either potentialprey.
So it's interesting when youthink of it and you go back that
far and go okay, what does thebody actually need, or the mind
need?
It needs that peace so you cansleep well, regenerate.
Now, they didn't know anythingabout entophagy back then.
They didn't know anything aboutgut bacteria, but they were
certainly without the pesticidesand all the other things that

(51:48):
are in their soil today.
They had the capacity actuallyto live very, very healthy lives
by just doing what theynaturally were inspired to do
Walk, hunt, fish, sleep, mate,breathe, repeat.
They had their spiritualpractices.
They had all these things thatkept them grounded and kept them

(52:10):
focused on their family unitand those sorts of things.
So when you think about ourancestors, we don't even have to
go back that many generations.
You and I've talked about this,my own grandparents coming from
the old country in Europe andplanting their own vegetables in
their backyard.
They didn't go to the grocerystore, they didn't use
pesticides, they'd go out everyday and pull the bad bugs off

(52:32):
the vegetables and leave thegood bugs there, because they
knew the difference and it'skind of like our gut Same idea.

Graham (52:39):
Yeah, two really good examples, right?
I often say eat like yourgrandmother and grandfather ate.
Or, if you're much younger, seeif you can find out how your
great-grandmother andgreat-grandfather ate.
There's probably a good reasonwhy they ate that way.
Your DNA is very similar totheirs.
Obviously it's going to beslightly different, but if we

(52:59):
think, as a human species, thatwe are so much different than
the humans from 5,000 years ago,the fact is we really aren't,
and the DNA hasn't changed thatmuch, and what we need to feed
ourselves to be healthy hasn'tchanged that much either.
The messaging has changed, butwhat we really need to feel
healthy and live the best lifewe can live hasn't changed in a

(53:24):
very long time.
On a lighter note, I wanted tojump into somebody who this is
one for my wife who has foundher own influences over time.
I've certainly, you know I'dprobably watch 50 videos and say
, hey, here's one we might wantto check out because it was the
best of those 50 or somethingthat I thought she might find
really interesting, and it wasalways volunteer, and the more

(53:48):
she started watching the videosthat I thought were the best
ones, the more she sort of gotinto looking for her own
influencers, and this is one ofthem Laura Spath.
So Laura Spath, she's not adoctor.
She doesn't claim to be one.
She is married to somebody whowas going through his own health
concerns.
She was going claim to be one.
She is married to somebody whowas going through his own health
concerns.
She was going through her ownhealth concerns and they

(54:10):
together went down this path oflet's figure out you know how to
eat better and ended up on thecarnivore diet, and Laura is.
She comes across as justsomebody who you'd happily spend
an afternoon chatting with herand her husband.
She's got a ton of information.
She could have a video whereshe actually goes through her
blood work or talks to theperson that's taken the blood

(54:32):
work to understand what certainthings mean, so you can get some
information on that.
She'll have a video oncarnivore foods that she
prepares for her family.
So how do you set up thekitchen?
What kind of equipment does sheuse?
What recipes does she have?
And my wife is incredible atlooking at you know food or
something in the fridge andputting an incredible meal

(54:53):
together.
I do not have that gift shedoes.
Sometimes the best I can do isground beef with some eggs and
maybe a bit of taco seasoning.
I'm perfectly happy with that.
She likes something with alittle more variety, which I
love as well.
So somebody like Laura Spath issomebody that may just resonate
with people in a different way.
So I highly recommend checkingout a couple of interviews.

(55:14):
She's absolutely lovely,stephen.

Stephen (55:16):
Yeah, no, that sounds great.
I'm not familiar with her, butagain, I'll add that as a
potential for my list as well.

Graham (55:23):
And did you want to go with the last on your list?
And then I'll cover a coupleoff and we can wrap things up,
Stephen.

Stephen (55:29):
Yeah, the last one I'd like to speak to is David Asprey
.
I kind of like his personality.
His backstory, if you don'tknow, is he was over 300 pounds
or on, or about 300 pounds in avery unhealthy state, and he's a
self-declared godfather, as hedescribes it, and not
grandfather, if you researchthat.
That's a different person, butthe godfather of effective

(55:58):
intermittent fasting.
And he starts being interestingfrom the first couple of words
that come out of his mouth aboutfasting.
Fasting is restraining orrefraining from doing, consuming
or acting in a certain way.
So it could be in the absenceof alcohol, in the absence of
binge-watching television, inthe absence of cutting out
anything that is addictive,destructive or otherwise
unproductive that's in your life.

(56:20):
And of course, food fallscentral too.
You just have to watch a fewcommercials if you still have
cable, and note that.
Just have to watch a fewcommercials if you still have
cable, and note that just howmuch they're pushing food on you
at 10, 11, 12 o'clock at night.
It's pretty ridiculous.
So he has an interesting way ofdescribing what really
resonated with me was a goal ofmetabolic flexibility, and

(56:41):
metabolic flexibility means thatyour body gets so good much
like a gymnast that can do thefloor, the rings, the pommel
horse, do all these differentevents that are still classified
as gymnastics.
You want to have the samecapacity metabolically in the
way in which you live your life.
So if you do have to run, youcan run.
If you need to do a squat, youcan do so without requiring two

(57:04):
members of your family to getyou back up off the floor.
And he said sometimes people canlook at intermittent fasting or
fasting in general with acertain dogma or mindset, and
this is not to retract anythingfrom the people we've spoken to,
but his view is to take more ofa reflective approach.
Even I would say to a certainextent he'll describe a

(57:24):
spiritual approach or holisticapproach to what is working for
you and what is working againstyou.
But to have the mindset ofunderstanding that what works
today may not be the best thingfor you tomorrow, because one of
the factors you've introducedis a high increase in cortisol
or you're traveling and that'sintroducing stressors because
you're in traffic, is to bemindful.

(57:47):
So this gets really into.
What I'm personally interestedin the most, as a former
practitioner of both meditationand martial arts, is the
practice of mindfulness and howthat affects the vagus nerve and
how I look at and you'vetouched on this actually just
generally in saying you know, ifyou have a, a bad day, don't
beat yourself up, because thatmeans tomorrow's going to be bad
too.
That's so true.

(58:07):
You know that we set ourselvesup for success or failure
through mindset, and he has.
I laughed because I I laughedout loud the first time I heard
him say that is that some peopleapproach the um, the art or
acts of intermittent fastinglike wearing a hair shirt from
the medieval times.
And so he was asked by theindividual who was interviewing

(58:30):
him what do you mean a hairshirt?
He goes well, in the 15thcentury, he said, certain
Christians would wear theseshirts to remind themselves of
constant and complete and totalsuffering.
He said fasting done properlyis not about suffering, it's
about overcoming suffering.
So if you can literally beaddicted to feeling horrible,

(58:50):
and then all you're doing ischanging that addiction to the
wrong mindset, and now you'repunishing your body or yourself
because you don't feel likeyou're making the progress that
you should be making making, sothere's a real I like the inner
message of what he's describing.
He still speaks very well aboutbutyrate gut health, gut
sensitivity and all of that, buthe has an interesting way,

(59:15):
graham.
If I describe his speakingstyle, he is, I wouldn't say,
impulsive.
I think what I'm looking forhere, graham, is he's provoking.
He says provocative things in away that makes you go okay, I
never saw it that way and I likethat because that keeps my
neuroplasticity in my brainworking towards the next
sharpest pencil that I can usein my own journey that you and I

(59:38):
are both on.
What say you to Dave Asprey?

Graham (59:41):
Yes, sometimes we need provocative right.
It can get us out of our mousewheel, get us out of our comfort
zone, get our attention.
And it doesn't mean you alwayshave to follow everything you
listen to and that's noreflection on Dave Asprey but
sometimes you need thoseprovocative people just to keep
you on edge, and it can be veryentertaining as well as

(01:00:03):
informative.
I've got three on my list thatI'm going to go through
relatively quickly.
The first one is Dr TonyHampton.
Dr Tony Hampton comes across asone of the most positive people
you'll ever meet.
It's the kind of doctor youwish you had as a doctor.
I've listened to him talk aboutall sorts of metabolic specific

(01:00:24):
topics.
He goes into a lot of detail.
He has great guests.
One of the things, one of thereasons why I mentioned him, is
he has this PDF that is his DrHampton keto handout with colors
.
It's such an incredibly easyreference guide.
You can print it out.
It tells you the foods to avoid, tells you the foods to have a

(01:00:46):
little bit of and tells you thefoods to have as much as you
want, and sometimes we need itto be that simple and there was
a time on my journey where youknow when you're getting all
these mixed messages about eatthis, don't eat that, and then
the next person you're listeningto is well, don't eat that, but
eat this.
Well, what makes sense?

(01:01:07):
And one of the things that wassort of the common denominator
was this PDF was, for the mostpart, correct.
There are some things on itthat you know I would say I
would stay away from, but onlybecause I've gone down the
rabbit hole and I've figured outwhat works for me.
It can certainly work for otherpeople.
If somebody says well, what amI supposed to eat, graham, it's

(01:01:28):
so confusing, there's too muchinformation out there.
I'm getting bombarded withmessages on TV and radio and
bombarded at the grocery storeabout this and that, and I
usually send them this and saythis can be a really simple
guide.
It's all whole foods and one ofthe things he doesn't take into
account is oxalates, whether itbe, you know, sweet potatoes,
potatoes, things like cashews,spinach.

(01:01:50):
So that's something to keep inmind and it's almost a balance
there, right?
The Toxic Superfoods book is areally good complement to his
PDF, but that's something thatI'll put in a link into the
description.
You can get the PDF and if ithelps anybody out there, then
you can thank Dr Hampton for allof his work putting that
together.
Second of the last three isCarrie Mann, m-a-n-n.

(01:02:13):
From Homestead Howe.
I've actually listened toCarrie Mann from the beginning
of his podcast.
He was, as he self-describes ithe tells the story better than
I do going down a path of doom,for lack of a better word.
Mentally and physically, he wasat his lowest point.
He talks about the number ofmedications he was on.

(01:02:33):
He talks about the fact that hereally didn't want to go on
with his current lifestyle, andit was people that we talked
about on this podcast.
You know Dr Sean Baker, anthonyChafee, ken Berry, I think, was
a huge influence for him, as hewas for us, and he completely
changed the way he eats.
He not only turned himselfaround completely, his wife and

(01:02:55):
his family started getting intoit because they couldn't believe
the results.
He was so excited about thisjourney.
He decided to start a podcastand he's done a lot of episodes
of those.
He interviews a ton of peopleand I got to watch him become
better and better at the podcastworld and that might have been
a bit of an incentive for me tosay, hey, maybe we can do this
Stephen Salt of the Earth guy.

(01:03:19):
He's putting a documentarytogether called Healing Humanity
, which I'm looking forward towatching when it comes out.
He's got a lot of the people wetalked about today are actually
in that documentary, so it'ssort of the carnivore or
keto-vore superstar list.
And Carrie Mann of HomesteadHowe is somebody that I would
recommend checking out.
And the last one, when peoplesay Graham, you've got a long

(01:03:40):
list of people that haveinfluenced you positively over
the years.
It's obvious that it's having apositive impact.
I can see it.
You're telling me the mentalclarity that you have and your
doctor's saying everything'shealthy.
I'd like to pick up some tips.
There's a podcast.
I don't believe this person hasa YouTube video, but there is a

(01:04:02):
podcast.
I don't believe this person hasa YouTube video, but there is a
podcast.
I think I've mentioned offline,stephen, that it was 14 episodes
.
It's actually 35 episodes.
I binge these 35 episodes in arow.
They're relatively short 15, 20minutes each, so it's not an
insignificant amount of time.
By the end, you're actuallylistening to a book.

(01:04:23):
I binge this from beginning toend, non-stop.
It was that interesting and it'ssomebody by the name of joanne
ozag ozag ug the podcast thatshe that she put together is
called the road to carnivore andshe tells an incredible story
of going from a vegan to, Ibelieve, vegetarian and all of

(01:04:45):
these steps all the way alongand ending up at Carnivore and
why she did and what happenedduring the journey.
It's almost like she's readingher diary out loud and she goes
into incredible level of detailon the science behind what she's
learned.
She had clearly done herresearch and I think I was

(01:05:07):
listening to this at a timewhere I was starting to think
I'd figured it out.
I was seeing really greatresults, but this was something
that really resonated with meand I think it could resonate
with others.
So if somebody comes to me andsays, just give me one thing to
listen to, it's the Road toCarnivore podcast series from
beginning to end.
She hasn't done another episodesince and I listened to it at

(01:05:31):
least a year and a half ago, butclearly she, in my opinion, put
such an incredible body of worktogether in this podcast series
that it can have an impact onalmost anyone who listens to it.
That wraps up my list, stephen.
Any last thoughts before we letthe audience go.

Stephen (01:05:54):
I just want to extend my gratitude to all of these
influencers.
We don't know personally, butwe're impacted personally, and
what a beautiful gift thismedium allows us to share our
insights and those of theexperts and their journey, and
how close these roads canintersect with what it is that
our listeners are trying to doin their own respective lives.

(01:06:16):
So we're here to serve, just asthey are, and hopefully today's
serving, so to speak, wasproductive for many who are
listening.

Graham (01:06:23):
What a great summary, and the only thing I will leave
this off with is there are moreinfluencers out there than you
think, and I think thiscommunity has some of the
kindest people I've ever seen.
They never seem to wantanything from anybody.
They're not trying to sell youthe latest product or
subscription.
They really genuinely are happywith where they've gotten to

(01:06:44):
and they want to share that withothers.
I understand that passion.
Sometimes I can be toopassionate about it and I have
to figure out a way to zip it,but the fact is there are so
many personalities out therethat can have a positive impact
on your life.
It doesn't mean you have to dowhat they're saying, but just
knowing there's other people outthere that may have gone
through the exact same situationthat you're going through today

(01:07:05):
and they've done something tochange.
That can give people the kindof hope that they may not be
getting by just going throughtheir day-to-day the way they're
going through today, and Ithink what best sums it up is
you realize you're not alone.
When you hear these people gothrough the same process, have
similarly great results atdifferent stages, you realize

(01:07:26):
that not only are you not alone,but there's this massive
community out there that isn'tnecessarily your friends or your
family that you can listen to,resonate with and understand
that I could really get somevaluable information out of them
.
So on that note, stephen, thankyou so much for your fantastic
list.
There's a number of people thatyou've helped put me on to that

(01:07:47):
I've learned more about, and Ithink that's what this is all
about.

Stephen (01:07:50):
Yeah, thank you, graham , I enjoyed it.

Graham (01:07:53):
All right, thanks everybody.
Thanks for listening to anotherepisode of Lessons for the
Ketoverse and we will see younext time.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Thanks for tuning into Lessons from the Keto-Verse
.
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