January 16, 2025 • 71 mins
People often meet me at a crossroads in their lives. At a loss or in emotional crisis lacking adequate tools, community or awareness to ‘deal with it like a man’.
Either that, or they’re a success story and even through everything is crossed off their bucket lists, something deeper is stirring inside that wants to come alive.
I ask the right questions and help things authentically fall together. Then the pennies drop and you become your own authentic man.
Before I tell you how I do this, I’d like to tell you why I do it. This comes from personal experience.
I came from dramatic beginnings: death threats, refugee camps, paternal abandonment, maternal enmeshment, childhood mental health issues and racism.
I moved to London and became a high-flying adrenaline junkie. Tight deadlines, extreme sports, anything that might distract me from the pain and emptiness I held deep within. I realised that in order to free myself, I had to own my shadows and release the depressed ‘pause buttons’ from the past that kept me stuck in the same old story. So I sat with my shadows and unlearned my limiting stories, turning addictive adrenaline into an enlivening endorphin buzz that I calmly share with my clients.
Be the love ~ Share the love - Kenny
https://www.themanwhisperer.co.uk/private-sessions
www.mensgroups.co.uk
https://www.themanwhisperer.co.uk/accredited-menfacilitate-training
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Today's episode.
We demonstrate shadow work.
Through an in-depth coachingsession.
We look at the role of the ego.
The inner protector.
And we look at how emotionalreactions.
Often stem from unresolvedchildhood experiences.
Such as feelings of neglect.
(00:21):
Or unworthiness.
Welcome to Man QuestifyingMeaning, where we help men
navigate modern life, find theirtrue purpose, and redefine
manhood.
I'm your host, James, and eachweek, inspiring guests share
their journeys of overcomingfear Embracing vulnerability and
(00:42):
finding success.
From experts to everyday heroes.
Get practical advice andpowerful insights.
Struggling with career,relationships or personal
growth?
We've got you covered.
Join us on Man Quest to FindMeaning.
Now, let's dive in.
James Ainsworth (01:00):
If you breathe into an uncomfortable feeling
and follow that feeling back, itwill take you into your dark
shadow where a pause button isdepressed in your past.
which needs feeling and healing.
This will release it, as well aswhat might be in the gold shadow
in the present.
(01:20):
Opening up to the future.
So this is a statement thatKenny gave me.
Can you explain a bit moreKenny?
Kenny De Cruz (01:28):
Rather than explaining.
So we demonstrate it.
James Ainsworth (01:32):
Can do
Kenny De Cruz (01:34):
practical.
Let's go from the head intohere.
And now did you, have you hadany uncomfortable feelings
recently?
Anything that's come up?
James Ainsworth (01:42):
It's funny you say that yesterday.
Yes, the last few days I've had,probably yesterday, I realized
that I've been having shadowscoming up but never really
clicked till yesterday.
And it's down, this is going tobe straight into the
vulnerability side of things.
I've, for years, and I still doquite a bit now, have, I've
(02:04):
always had problems whenapproaching women, especially
women I like.
And Quite often, when I approachwomen I like, I tend to freeze,
I tend to forget what I wasgoing to say, I shy away,
there's that un feeling ofunworthiness, and what I've
noticed is that, Like the last24 hours or 24, probably 36
(02:31):
hours.
Now there's been occasions wheresomething's happened and I've
gone like freezing.
I almost come acrossembarrassed.
I almost come across a sense of.
I start to feel a little bitweird.
Am I a weird person?
And that is something I've beenworking on.
Weird, to accept weird as a partof who I am.
(02:52):
And so it's these shadows comingup of weirdness, of not feeling
worthy of yeah.
But I know there's gold inthere.
Kenny De Cruz (03:01):
Wow.
So this is live right now.
If you breathe into it and justfeel it back here and now.
It sounds to me, I've got towork with this so much with men.
If there's a woman that theylike, it's almost like shock or
panic or they turn into scaredlittle boys or something.
(03:24):
If you feel into it and youbreathe and you follow the
feeling back, where or when doesit take you?
James Ainsworth (03:30):
Takes you back to what always comes as a little
boy.
There's this sense of that boywho's afraid, who almost feels
unwanted.
Kenny De Cruz (03:44):
And how old were you then?
If you follow the feeling back,when can you see around you
what's going on?
Around six?
James Ainsworth (03:51):
Six.
Yeah.
Around about six.
Kenny De Cruz (03:54):
And what was going on for him?
James Ainsworth (03:56):
I think it was more, I feel as though.
The child then was like being alittle bit neglected, nobody was
coming to him.
I don't know the exactsituation, but tuning into my
inner child is a sense that hefeels as though he's not getting
his needs met.
(04:17):
He feels lost.
He feels lonely.
He feels unloved.
Kenny De Cruz (04:22):
Thankfully, this isn't about the facts.
The facts don't come into it,this is about the feelings.
And you followed your feelingback and you've taken me to a
place where it feels like youwere vulnerable and maybe
invisible or neglected or notnoticed or not protected, not
cherished, not taken intoconsideration.
(04:44):
And the details don't reallymatter right now.
What matters right now is you'vetaken me to a place, a very real
place.
And it feels like you've builton this place.
And I wonder what this place hasto do with women.
And it might be that you wantedthe care or the nurture from
your mother.
And it sounds like this comes upmore from being around women
(05:07):
than men.
But some people it's both, butsome people it's men, but some
people it's, I don't know,social climbing, famous men,
businessmen, God knows what.
What would you say that boyneeds?
He
James Ainsworth (05:20):
just needs some love and attention.
To make him feel wanted.
To self soothe myself.
Hug myself, kind of thing.
And allow that inner child tofeel that he is wanted.
And that he is needed.
And yeah, he exists.
(05:40):
There's a big one.
He exists.
Kenny De Cruz (05:42):
He
James Ainsworth (05:42):
exists.
There we go.
Kenny De Cruz (05:46):
Wow.
And I'd say there might beanother part to it.
Firstly, he's not invisible.
He exists.
Secondly, he needs to feel safe.
Surely.
James Ainsworth (05:58):
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (06:00):
And right here and right now, I would say that
you are the man who can be withthe boy, probably the only adult
that he can rely on to always behere.
So he is safe.
And
for me, that can literally happen in a breath.
(06:23):
And maybe try this, just take adeep breath in and feel where
you feel him in your body rightnow.
And all you need to say,brilliant.
And what I do is all I need tosay is all right, I'm here.
Don't need to explain anything,don't need to engage him, all he
needs to know is he's alright.
James Ainsworth (06:44):
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (06:45):
Because you're here.
Two things happen there.
Firstly, he's safe.
Secondly, the man in you is hereto make him safe.
And with this woman, and withwomen, I'm guessing that they
want to know the man in you.
And the man in you is the partof you that's present and
(07:05):
connected right here and rightnow.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Not some monkey flashing thecash and twitching muscles or
doing somersaults.
That's not a man.
That's showing off rather thanshowing up.
But with your child safe, theman in you is here, and it's the
man in you that can engage withher, with anyone and everyone,
(07:29):
and with the world.
James Ainsworth (07:31):
Nice like that.
It's it feels very empowering.
Just before, actually, justbefore I came on, I allowed
myself to step into my Kingenergy.
So I already feel empowered fromsitting and being in the King
energy, but then at the sametime here in this moment, it's
been able to bring that childself.
(07:54):
And have the king, the one whorules your kingdom, the one who
is able to do you know thearchetypes?
Yeah.
So work with the warrior, themagician and the lover, and to
be able to relay orders down tothe rest of the kingdom, but
with humility and to honor thechild that will soon take over.
(08:17):
He is the child, he's the onethat brings it up.
Kenny De Cruz (08:20):
There's a lot more to it than king, warrior,
lover, and magician.
Do you want to tap into thatkind of stuff?
Do you want to do this?
This is, these are the sessionsthat I generally do with people
in one on one with one on oneclients, which is a little bit
different to what I do ingroups.
(08:41):
But would you like to experiencethat?
And no is fine, if you'd rathernot.
So
James Ainsworth (08:47):
what we'll do first.
Kenny De Cruz (08:49):
Yeah.
James Ainsworth (08:50):
Is we'll just, actually no let's go for it.
Let's go for it.
And then perhaps when we've doneit for a few minutes or
whatever, we'll connect to yourstory.
Kenny De Cruz (09:00):
Okay how about we throw all structure and
everything else out of thewindow and see what happens And
at some stage I'll run throughmy story.
James Ainsworth (09:14):
Yeah.
If it's relevant.
Yeah.
That sounds good to me.
You're making me feeluncomfortable, but that's good.
That's good.
That's roll with it.
Because sometimes having thatkind of idea that having that
structure is great.
But then sometimes changing astructure around or just
completely binning it and makingyourself feel uncomfortable is
(09:34):
Just as good.
Kenny De Cruz (09:36):
And the first step we're going to do is to
make you feel comfortable so youknow that you're in control.
What I'd like you to do, I don'tknow how wired up you are, is to
stand up, go and knock on thedoor, or touch something, do
something, and when you comeback I would like to speak to
your inner protector, the partof you that's been protecting
(09:59):
you.
James Ainsworth (10:01):
I think he's already here.
Inner protector, okay.
You got the inner protector.
Kenny De Cruz (10:07):
So you are James's inner protector?
I certainly am.
James Ainsworth (10:11):
Yep.
Kenny De Cruz (10:13):
I'm really pleased to meet you.
I need one thing from you beforewe stop just hanging out and
having a chat.
The one thing I need from you,as James's inner protector, is
that at any stage, During thispodcast, our time together, at
any stage, if you feel thatJames is too vulnerable, and you
(10:38):
want things to stop, even justfor you and I to have a chat, or
to stop for good, whatever,you'll simply say stop, and I'll
stop.
How's that?
James Ainsworth (10:49):
I think I can feel the vulnerability already.
I can feel the almost like he'sgoing to say stop now.
If you want to
Kenny De Cruz (10:56):
say stop now, you say stop now.
Your job's to protect, James.
No,
James Ainsworth (11:00):
let's carry on.
Let's carry on.
Kenny De Cruz (11:02):
Okay.
So yeah, safety first.
As far as I'm concerned, andit's really interesting the
beginning of this conversation Iwas speaking with James about
how he can be in front of women.
And then I asked him to followthe feeling back to where
things, I called it a depressedpause button where things have
stopped.
(11:22):
And what he said to me is thatat six years old he felt
vulnerable, he felt literallythat he didn't exist.
Is that when you showed up toprotect him from that
vulnerability?
Yeah.
James Ainsworth (11:37):
I turned up to attack him when he was
roundabout two, when he felt alittle bit alone, a little bit
vulnerable, a little bit ofloneliness.
Kenny De Cruz (11:52):
So you showed up at two.
And what would you say in anutshell, your job for James is?
What do you do for him?
James Ainsworth (12:00):
So I make sure I keep him safe by not allowing
him to Go beyond his boundariesbecause beyond his boundaries is
the unknown.
It's where fear kicks in.
It's where he is stepping out.
And I don't know what's going tohappen to him.
So by keeping him in hisboundaries, he is safe.
He is safe.
(12:20):
He is protected.
He is and there I can allow himto be loved.
Kenny De Cruz (12:25):
That's quite a job.
And you've been doing this forhim since he was two years old.
James Ainsworth (12:30):
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (12:32):
Wow.
Do you like your work?
James Ainsworth (12:37):
It's, I feel it's not about liking.
It's about protecting.
This is my role.
Like you might have a role inyour work and you might not like
your role, but you get on and dothe role as best as you possibly
can.
That's how I feel about it.
Kenny De Cruz (12:54):
So really it doesn't matter whether you like
it or not.
This is what you're here for,and you just do it.
James Ainsworth (13:02):
Yeah.
That's my role.
I do it.
It's done and dusted.
Kenny De Cruz (13:06):
And on a scale of 1 to 10, how in control of his
life would you say you are?
Six.
Where's the other four?
Does something else take over,or do you hand over to another
part?
James Ainsworth (13:21):
James has been on this seven to eight year path
of personal growth and spiritualdevelopment.
And I feel as though by himdoing this, he is kind, I am
starting to lose quite a lot ofcontrol.
So the other, that four is thepart of him that it's growing
and there's so many things whichI've tried to protect him, but
(13:42):
his stubbornness just keptpushing him and pushing him to
go out and grow and to take onand to be a step into the fear,
Kenny De Cruz (13:52):
right?
What do you think to all ofthis?
Is it working?
Is it dangerous?
Is it risky?
Do you approve
James Ainsworth (14:00):
if it was up to me?
I would keep him where he is.
So just to clarify a little bithere with this session is that
he I keep him on the farm.
So he's not a huge fan ofworking on his dad's farm.
He wants to quit the farm, but Ikeep him up the farm simply on
the bound, on the idea that heis, exactly what he's going to
(14:21):
do is protected.
He might not like it, but he isprotected and he is safe.
Kenny De Cruz (14:27):
Safety first.
It sounds like your job is hissafety.
James Ainsworth (14:31):
Yeah.
I'm the, I'm not the safe, I'mthe safety officer.
I'm the one within the themagician who keeps him safe as
being the safety officer, whichkind of limits his movements.
Kenny De Cruz (14:45):
And would you say it limits anything else in his
life?
James Ainsworth (14:49):
It limits a lot of things, but it keeps him
safe.
It limits relationships.
It limits his way he wants togrow.
It limits his progression withregards to life.
It limits his ways of purpose.
But as I said, he is quite acharacter in himself and he is
(15:11):
starting to really step out.
But I'm also seeing that when hedoes step out, he can quite
often be safe anywhere.
So I have over the last seven toeight years, I have relinquished
a lot of control that I oncehad.
On the grounds that he is, withhis growth, he is able to step
(15:34):
up and be protected.
And also, there is other powersat play here as well, powers
bigger than myself.
And bit by bit, I amrelinquishing a lot of my
control.
Kenny De Cruz (15:50):
And things are working.
He remains safe.
He remains protected.
He survives.
Yeah.
And when would you say he's athis happiest?
James Ainsworth (16:04):
He's actually at his happiest, actually, when
he steps out.
Which is why I'm starting torelinquish a lot of my control.
And it's mainly not because heis pushing me away, because I
feel as though he is almostworking with me, rather than
(16:25):
against me.
And I'm able to protect himwhere I can.
And it is idea that with regardsto life, generally, I do feel he
has a purpose bigger thanhimself.
And he is stepping into that.
And he is safe.
Kenny De Cruz (16:45):
Would you say that You and his purpose, his
stepping out, his alignment withhimself, his passion with life
is in alignment.
Or would you say there's atension there?
Because I wonder whether thiscould be made easier, more
efficient, calmer.
James Ainsworth (17:07):
I feel as though at this moment in time,
there is a little bit of a,there's quite still a little bit
of resistance now over the lasteight years, eight years ago, he
had lots of resistance.
He had lots of limiting beliefs.
He had lots of things going on,but over the last eight years.
78 years with his growth, he hasbeen able to work through a lot
(17:30):
of this resistance with limitingbeliefs.
And he's come to a point wherethere's a few odd things here
and there.
And I suppose the one key area,which I try to keep in the safe
the most is in relationshipsbecause he has been hurt quite a
few times.
And it's this idea that if he'sable to really step out, if he
(17:50):
steps out too much, He getsburned.
Kenny De Cruz (17:54):
Okay.
How well do you know the man inhim?
James Ainsworth (17:59):
Not very well, but enough to relinquish through
in my control.
Kenny De Cruz (18:05):
So you trust the man in him, the two of you work
together and get on?
James Ainsworth (18:10):
He hasn't shown me not to trust him, so I trust
him enough not to put too muchcontrol in front.
But the idea that he has so,with what's been going on
recently, he has really steppedout, but he's never been in a
place of complete unsafety.
(18:32):
So I trust him enough to knowthat he has the, he has myself
and the inner child back.
Kenny De Cruz (18:44):
Interesting you say that.
Because I wondered whether whenyou're around the child is
surviving, and when he's around,the child feels safe.
And the reason I say that is youshowed up to take care of the
(19:07):
child.
in the absence of an adult.
And therefore, the two of you,you're going to keep that child
as safe as you can surviving.
Your job is survival.
Though, I wondered about when heshows up, he is an adult, and if
he's taking care of the child,then survival's over.
(19:28):
And because that job is done,which was your core job, I
wondered whether your skillscould be used rather than
surviving the present and past,but more informing the present
and what might be letting himgrow into a bigger life because
(19:50):
you've got skills.
I bet you've got really sharpskills where you know what's
going to happen, you know ifthere's danger, you know if
something's going to kick off,you can read the room, you can
read the energy etc, because youprobably had to do that to make
sure that he was safe from theage of two to date.
Those are fine skills.
(20:12):
And those skills can be adaptedfor his growth.
How do you feel about that?
James Ainsworth (20:18):
It's funny you say that because there's a idea
that Deep down, I know thatthere's big changes going on,
and I can connect to the bigchanges and know that sometimes
I can be in the way.
And it's a sense that I'm ableto sometimes take a step back
(20:43):
and allow the other part to takeover, the James, the B and the,
his soul to take over.
And Sometimes, yes, I do, I feela little bit neglected as a
safety officer because he'staken charge and I've lost my
(21:04):
role.
So maybe, yes, there's a more ofa way that I can take more of a
back step back and I can, I'mable to then connect to that
inner child when the inner childneeds me for a safety purpose.
And in a sense that.
(21:25):
he's started to change his ideaaround fear, because now he
started to see fear, notnecessarily as a bad thing, but
as the unknown.
And so I'm starting to be ableto relinquish my control on that
too.
Kenny De Cruz (21:42):
Very interesting.
It feels like we're meeting atthe right time.
If you're questioning thesethings, there's one more thing I
want to run by you.
I've got a hunch that you andThat boy from the age of two,
from the age of six, that boy inchildhood who was invisible and
didn't quite exist, wasneglected or unseen, have a
(22:06):
couple of things in common.
And for you, I wonder whetheryou realize that if it wasn't
for you protecting him andtaking care of him all these
years, that he wouldn't havesurvived.
His survival is down to you.
James Ainsworth (22:24):
Thank you for saying
Kenny De Cruz (22:25):
that.
How
James Ainsworth (22:26):
does that
Kenny De Cruz (22:26):
feel?
Breathe it in.
James Ainsworth (22:29):
It feels good to know that I have protected
the boy when he needed me themost and it takes almost
sometimes a bigger man or abigger person to take a step
back when he knows his job hasbeen done and to allow something
bigger to carry on the role, butbeing able to stay in the
(22:53):
background.
in case there's a sense of need.
Kenny De Cruz (22:57):
Spot on.
Absolutely spot on.
The first thing that I need todo is acknowledge you for what
you've done.
And that job is well donebecause he survived and is on
the edge of growth and reallystepping into who he is.
And the second thing you saidstraight away there, which is
personally, I wouldn't want youto go anywhere because if for
(23:22):
any reason the shit hits the fanor like in the cartoon, suddenly
a piano falls from the sky, thenwithout any hesitation, I would
expect you to take over at thedrop of a hat, move them from
the falling piano or whateverthe danger is, and he's safe
again.
If that's your job, that's yourjob.
(23:44):
When there's danger.
James Ainsworth (23:46):
Thank you.
Kenny De Cruz (23:48):
But, or maybe I should get my butt out of your
face and say and.
And.
In his progress, I feel that youwould be the most perfect
advisor of, as he moves forward,as he's faced with a new person,
(24:10):
a woman, a work thing, a socialthing, whatever comes up in
front of him in his life.
that he listens to you and youadvise him, trust this one, say
this, don't say that, don'ttrust that one, turn right,
don't turn left, stop for aminute and just think before you
(24:30):
make this decision, whatever itis that you have to say in that
moment, that you advise him.
And he hears you.
And to me, with your skills,knowing him, knowing the way
he's wired and where he's comingfrom, and clearly having his
best interests at heart, becauseyour job is his safety and your
protection of him, who'd bebetter to advise him as he
(24:54):
grows?
And how valuable would that be?
James Ainsworth (24:58):
I feel as though you're right.
I am an invaluable asset toJames and to the, as I call him
little to Jimmy, I call him.
And it's more along the linesthat, yeah I'm here if he needs
me kind of thing.
Kenny De Cruz (25:15):
Then how will you know if he needs you?
Because I feel that you'reliterally going to hand Jimmy
over to the men.
So he's just, Safe.
And that job is done.
And then you can be free toadvise James.
(25:36):
as he moves into a bigger,better life.
James Ainsworth (25:39):
It's not necessarily about when will I
know, I almost feel like thereneeds to be a partnership
between me and James, his truebeing, the truest thing, a
partnership where he knows Hisrole, I know my role, and
(26:00):
there's got to be a sense ofintertwined ness, that's the
word, intertwined ness betweenus both, where certain
situations might require Jamesmore, whereas certain
situations, May require me more,but it's not for me also.
(26:20):
It's not about taking fullcontrol.
Like you should do this, andthis it's about me saying, okay,
go into a little boy and saying,okay, we need to do, this is a,
this is what I'm suggesting.
We need to do this and thenallowing.
The boy or James to take thenecessary steps, but creating a
(26:46):
fully wedded relationship,
Kenny De Cruz (26:49):
let me see if I've got this right.
And there might be some thingsthat I say that might be a
little bit different to yours.
So hear me out and then correctme at the end, because this is
really important the way thatthis is set up.
So it all fits and workstogether.
And.
You are in alignment, your allthe different parts are in
(27:12):
alignment, not just withinJames, but also with life, the
way that life wants to meet himand leave him, lead him forward.
So my take on this as well aswhat I'm hearing, is that you
literally hand Jimmy over to theman because then Jimmy's no
longer surviving.
(27:34):
Jimmy's safe and he can justplay or.
be part of nature.
Or, for me, a safe in a child isthe closest part to inspiration,
or to God, or to nature, or tolove, or to guidance, or however
you want to put it.
So with Jimmy Safe, it's almostlike there's spiritual
(27:58):
connection.
And with James, the man in themiddle, he's got that spiritual
guidance.
He's got your guidance.
which is worth its weight ingold because you know him inside
out and it's logical and it'ssafety and it's linear and it's
exactly what he needs to guidehim.
With these two, he can bepresent in the center, attract
(28:23):
what life will bring him, andhe'll listen and be able to
respond, be able to take a stepin or a step out or a step
forward or stay still, know whatto say or what to do.
But with The committee and whoknows who else right now is on
(28:43):
the committee on side, thenJames can be present and your
job with the child, unlessthere's real danger is literally
done and your job with hisgrowth.
is literally just beginning.
But this means that James is inthe center, and either you'll
take over if there's realdanger, or he'll listen to you
(29:07):
all the time, or he'll hand overto you if it's a job that he
knows is yours.
Like he might hand over to thepart of him that works on the
farm, or the part of him thatplays pool, or the part of him
that has a hobby, or the part,different parts for different
things.
How does that feel?
Is that about right?
Or did I take over or get itwrong?
James Ainsworth (29:28):
That feels right, but also wrong.
It feels as though the child,yes, needs to be in the center.
But there has to be an ounce of,rather than allowing the child
to say, Okay, you need to takeover.
Kenny De Cruz (29:46):
Oh no, not Jimmy.
Jimmy's safe.
It's James, the man who's in thecenter.
Okay.
Jimmy's just playing with Loveand nature and freedom and,
seeing the beauty in everythingand attracting the goodness of
life.
That's what free spiritedchildren do.
No job for the child.
Child is safe and free.
James Ainsworth (30:08):
Yeah, I think there's a time and a place for
me to also to be able to growand evolve.
And this is, I feel, almost mytime, it's almost my time to do
that, so that I can help thecollective James to achieve
(30:31):
what's on his purpose in thismoment, in this life, in this
world.
Because I feel as though, Withregards to the past and towards
other lives, there's been a bigshift in how the human race has
changed over the last 20, 30years.
(30:52):
And it's time for us to changeour narrative, to change how we
communicate, to how we can helpthose to grow into the people
who will lead this world andtake the steps necessary to help
this planet thrive.
(31:15):
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (31:16):
How does it feel to say that?
James Ainsworth (31:19):
Feels good.
It feels good to know that weare on the forefront of change,
big change.
And it's a sense that we, as acollective, as in safety
officers of people who are atthe forefront at this moment in
time, can help.
(31:39):
Children who are going soon tocome into this world to feel
safer.
Kenny De Cruz (31:45):
And I feel very often this is where purpose
comes into the picture.
Your purpose started with Jimmy.
And James's purpose, I feel,will continue to take care of
kids like Jimmy.
Kids like Jimmy.
Won't have to go through whatJimmy went through.
And very often for me, I findthat the people I work with,
(32:08):
their purpose is puttingsomething right for others that
wasn't right for them.
So I feel you've gone fullcircle here and that just feels
good inside.
I feel
like present in my body and safe and satisfied
listening to you hear that Ifeel that the way that your mind
(32:32):
works so quickly reacting towhat might happen or what is
happening, all of this is sovaluable and so quick as
information for the man in Jamesto receive.
So he can listen, evaluate, takea breath and choose how to
(32:53):
respond.
It's like you carry on reactingand operating at the speed of
light and let him groundeverything you have to say and
respond.
listening and being in touchwith everything.
So it feels like we're at astage now where it's time to
build a bridge between you andthe man in James.
(33:15):
So the two of you know how towork together.
And something that James readout right in the beginning was I
feel what we've done, which isI've met you in James's Dark
Shadow in the past, where therewas unfinished business with
(33:35):
being invisible, neglect, etc.
Being unnurtured, unprotected,uncherished.
And now that pause button can bereleased, because we know it.
We felt it.
And we're literally taking Jimmyfrom there, and putting him with
an adult, to Perpetually be safeand loved and cherished and seen
(33:59):
and nurtured and just be able toplay, just to I don't know, fly
around the Garden of Eden orwhatever it is that to be in
bliss, to be in love.
So with this work in literallydoing that, it's opening up the
gold shadow, because can youimagine how much love this inner
(34:21):
work can bring?
James can bring with a freespirited child into the world.
It's not doing fixing.
It's being loving.
And I feel this is the alchemythat we can do now.
Now, what I need you to doinitially is to support the man
(34:41):
in being present, because hewill be used to you taking over
and you being in charge.
And he needs to be used to beingpresent and connected all the
time.
This,
maybe this could be seen as trickery.
It's not meant to be seen astrickery.
After you've supported him andhe knows to take his place, I
(35:05):
don't want you to trust himunless he has proved that he
will always be here.
It's not your job to mollycoddlehim and take care of him.
It's his job to take his placeso he can work with you and you
can work with him.
He needs to prove that he'll behere all the time.
(35:25):
Now, the way to bring him in isliterally, as soon as you notice
that you're in charge and he'snot here, is literally to take a
deep breath in, get in yourbody, get into the ground, And
be present, and as you breathein, you feel little Jimmy, and
(35:48):
as you breathe out, you hand himthe child, and you say, get on
with it, I'm by your side.
So you're here, your breath isinviting him in.
Would it be fair to say that youlive in James's head?
James Ainsworth (36:03):
Yes.
I'm the head, and I must admit,he, there's a sense now that he
is here more often than hewasn't a year ago.
Kenny De Cruz (36:15):
What we're looking for is every moment.
Simple as that.
It's the only option.
It's not an option that Jimmy,for one moment, is not being
protected, or is not feelingsafe.
So he needs to be here at everymoment.
And
also, with him here every moment, then life can
(36:38):
happen.
Because I know in my life lifewould bring me all sorts of
good, bad, and ugly things.
But I was off in my head, beingattached to how I want things to
be, and I didn't even notice thegoodness that life brought until
I got here.
I made this change in my life,and then I chose what to engage
(36:58):
with and what not.
And if he's not here in everymoment, then we're going to go
to an old script of, no women,no love.
Bob Marley, wasn't it?
James Ainsworth (37:09):
singing.
Kenny De Cruz (37:11):
And also the drudgery of life of what has to
be done, rather than the joy inlife of having an attitude of
living a bigger, better, morefulfilling life.
So we're going to flip that.
So it's literally breathe in.
include yourself in the mind,because he lives in all of your
(37:31):
body and is grounded right hereand right now, not just in
alignment with himself, but inalignment between heaven and
earth.
So one breath, and that's howpowerful your breath can be.
And you're here and he's backand the child is safe.
So
far, does anything not fit?
(37:52):
Do you have any questions?
And how does this feel?
James Ainsworth (37:55):
No, it feels powerful.
It feels liberating.
It's a sense that he's able to,I'm able to be present to be in
the moment, to be that sense ofpurpose, that drive.
And is this a feeling ofcomplete power in the inside
(38:17):
myself?
And there's a sense of warriorlike, ah, kind of thing.
But also the, there's theintuition, there's the
connecting to the emotions, thelover.
And obviously I'm using thearchetype series, but yeah, it's
just connective, collective toall.
Kenny De Cruz (38:35):
Yeah.
It's a much bigger picture thanyou and surviving Jimmy against
the world.
It's seriously.
Congratulations for a job welldone.
James Ainsworth (38:48):
Thank you.
Kenny De Cruz (38:48):
That chapter, that hard work for how many
years, you've done it, and thatchapter is over.
And good on you.
That was a lot of work.
Relentless.
You're not kidding.
This reminds me, before movingon, this reminds me of one
(39:10):
thing.
I remember when we first spokeon the phone.
I said to you that my first homein the UK was in Eccleshawn in a
refugee camp.
Yesterday was our 52ndanniversary of landing in the UK
and being taken to Eccleshaw.
And I remember it was less than10 years ago because I would
(39:32):
phone my mother because myfather wasn't there.
He was supposed to be killed.
So it was my mother, brother andI phoned my mother and I said,
happy refugee anniversary.
And she said, we survived.
And for the first time in mylife.
In my fifties, I heard herwords, we survived and I could
(39:54):
feel it in my body that we havesurvived and I can stop that
battle and I feel that I'm in avery similar place to you right
now is you survived.
And that chapter is over.
It's done.
Amazing.
(40:14):
And now it's time to live.
James Ainsworth (40:17):
Yeah.
I can feel it.
I can.
And this is, the last 39 yearshave led to this point here.
Where now it's Linguishingcontrol to just step into
something, a purpose bigger,something bigger than ourself.
Kenny De Cruz (40:35):
Yeah.
James Ainsworth (40:36):
Something where it's something ginormous.
And that's the power of beingable to work with these parts.
So work with the shadow.
Kenny De Cruz (40:51):
Your job has never been boundaries.
That's not a protector's job.
It's the man's job to haveboundaries and boundaries is
where men meet women, men meetmen meet life, men meet
everything.
It's this is where we meet.
And now where shall we go?
(41:13):
It's like an initial meeting andthen the merry dance of life.
So There's a whole new dimensiongoing to open up from here, and
with your help, James can dothis.
In fact, I believe he's beenaching to live into this, and
(41:34):
we'll put things in order tomake it happen.
Unless you have any questions oranything else to say, take your
time sitting here, but whenyou're ready, go and knock on
that door or kick the bin orwhatever you did, and I'll speak
with James again.
James Ainsworth (41:51):
How are you?
Feels good.
Feels really good.
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (41:58):
I so respect your protector.
And I could see the way hechanged from the beginning when
we first met to the end.
He changed his arms were out.
He was present.
He was alive.
When we first met, it was almostlike I have to survive this
shit.
I have to work on the farm.
(42:18):
It's like perpetual groundholdday, but he changed and he seems
really up for it.
James Ainsworth (42:25):
It felt very much like he was up for a
challenge.
And there's a sense thatobviously within challenges,
that's where the growth.
And our growth happens the most.
And it's this sense that from myown perspective, it's there.
So then I've done quite a bit ofshadow work people and stuff.
(42:45):
And it's it's so powerful to beable to connect to these parts
of ourselves that have beenthere to serve us, but sometimes
we see it more as it'srestrictive and it almost come,
it can be keeps us.
almost locked away sometimesuntil we are able to have that
conversation with these deeperparts to say that, you, your
(43:09):
job's done, your role's done.
Now you can grow into it.
You have, you can let go ofcontrol.
You can allow these parts toreally step in to Allow
something to something else totake some of the burden.
When he sees the burden.
Kenny De Cruz (43:27):
Yeah, and I would say it's very male and to be
respected that men need to knowand understand first.
Because there has to be safetyfirst.
I
wouldn't say the female mind is like that, but
the women that I work with, theydon't always have to know
anything, everything.
(43:48):
And it's just different traits,different hormones, who knows
what.
But to know and to have thatsafety first, and I would say
most men fear humiliation andabandonment more than anything,
from when they were boys.
So to have this structure, andthen to have the experience of
(44:08):
it enables and empowers them tomove on.
And your protector earlier onsaid power.
And I really liked the way hesaid power, because I could see
that he was in power in his oldrole, and moving into his new
role.
But that was in power, with thewillingness.
(44:29):
Almost felt like the yearning toempower other people rather than
the boy way or the fair way,which is power over other
people.
And that's detail is soimportant.
And for me, that's thedifference between a boy and a
(44:50):
man.
A boy often comes from fear andsurvival, and it's all
competition, where a man cancome from love and living and
collaboration.
He knows when to pass the ball,he knows when to score.
A man can come from feeling hisfeelings and meeting other
(45:11):
people, where a boy can't affordto feel feelings.
It's all keep it on the surface.
No one will hold me.
No one will meet me.
It's like you and Jimmy.
It was all the, all of that, butsave it up because we need to
survive.
And maybe once we've survivedand it's safe enough, then
(45:32):
things can all unpack and it'sall doing where the feeling
feelings and being with otherpeople at that depth, that's
very men.
And for me, traits that make aman, strangely, are having
access to the masculine and thefeminine traits.
(45:53):
The ability to respond is morefeminine, react is more
masculine.
One isn't good and the otherone's bad.
They're both necessary.
The ability to listen is morefeminine, where boys make a lot
of noise.
And sadly, bad parenting in theold days would be to humiliate
(46:14):
and abandon a boy to break theminto good behavior, because the
noise is inconvenient.
These days, that still goes on,but it's putting them in front
of the screen, and then they getprogrammed by all of these
things, and they're used tobeing in front of the screen
rather than around other people.
Ah, time to move on.
James Ainsworth (46:33):
What I'm suggesting here is that, would
you be willing to do a secondpart?
Kenny De Cruz (46:41):
I would like to do a little bit more now.
Yeah.
So this is complete.
James Ainsworth (46:46):
Okay.
Kenny De Cruz (46:48):
And then let's see.
Because otherwise, we're halfarsed.
James Ainsworth (46:52):
Yeah.
Okay, in that case Let's comeback to your story another time.
Yeah.
Let's go a little bit deeperinto what it, what does it mean
to be a healthy man?
Kenny De Cruz (47:06):
Rather than the theory of it.
Go and knock on the door orsomething, and I'll speak to the
man in you, or the man emergingin you, and let's find out.
James Ainsworth (47:17):
Okay, let's do that, and
Kenny De Cruz (47:19):
Are you the man in James?
James Ainsworth (47:21):
I certainly am.
Kenny De Cruz (47:23):
I've been waiting to meet you.
And James almost suggested wedid it another time, but no, I
want to meet you now.
Here I am.
How is it with you taking careof the child?
Because I spoke to James'sprotector.
(47:45):
about him handing the child overto you.
And it was very clear that thechild was in his heart.
And I said, look, when is withthe man, then it's like, you can
say it's all right.
I'm here.
The child's just free and you'represent.
Was I being presumptuous or isthat about right for you?
James Ainsworth (48:03):
For me, there's a sense of being present in the
body, but sometimes I havenoticed in the past.
Maybe not now.
There was a kind of a battlebetween heart and head and so
(48:24):
being able to switch and tobecome present enough to be able
to drop into the heart is thekey, I feel, to being the man,
to stepping into your power, to,to having a bigger purpose, to,
To interacting with otherpeople, other beings, whatever
(48:45):
you want to call them.
And it's a sense that within theheart space.
That is where expansion happenswithin the heart.
This is where love originates.
Kenny De Cruz (48:57):
Do you feel that now?
James Ainsworth (48:59):
Yeah.
I thought it's, it feels veryliberating to be able to feel
that expansion, to feel that,that bliss, that, that love,
that connection, that sense ofwisdom, which comes from here
and to be able to be in thatplace of.
(49:23):
Growth.
Expansion.
Kenny De Cruz (49:26):
Can I invite you to change one word from what
you've said?
Unless I'm wrong with this.
Because the way that I feel younow, and the way that you're
saying this, it's not that, it'sthis.
Because I'm feeling it with youright here and right now.
James Ainsworth (49:48):
Yeah, that feels powerful.
This.
This.
Kenny De Cruz (49:52):
Yeah.
You are here, right here andright now.
Not only can I feel you as theman in James, but I can feel
safety.
I can feel love.
I can feel grounded.
I can feel presence.
I can feel an expansion.
(50:13):
This feels great.
And what you said in thebeginning about the head and the
heart is I can feel you comingfrom your heart.
And I can feel that you canlisten to the protector who's in
charge of the head.
So you have access to thatrather than being distracted and
(50:35):
overtaken by the head or handingover to the protector.
How does it feel to you?
Because what I said to theprotectors, what I'd like from
you is just to be here all thetime, which is an invitation to
feel this bliss.
And this presence and this loveall the time, and you can listen
(50:56):
to him and you can follow spiritbecause the child is safe and
you're here all the time.
James Ainsworth (51:03):
Feels very empowering, very connected,
interconnected as we are allone.
And it's almost that.
connection within the heart,within our our growth, our
destination, our destiny.
There's a collective power.
(51:25):
And so by being present, bybeing in the body, you are able
to connect to people on a moredeeper level.
Kenny De Cruz (51:37):
I have another suggestion with a change in
words.
I wonder whether your we is moreof an I.
James Ainsworth (51:47):
Yeah, okay.
Kenny De Cruz (51:49):
The reason I say that as well is when I do, then
I notice that those around mealso do.
James Ainsworth (51:58):
I.
Kenny De Cruz (51:59):
But when I say we, then I'm almost saying we
all need to do it.
And it's a need to in thefuture, rather than are doing it
now.
James Ainsworth (52:11):
I.
Yeah.
Powerful.
Kenny De Cruz (52:15):
Yeah.
And what I heard so strongly inthe beginning of my time with
James today was how he wasliterally invisible.
And I know that in myexperience, I've been doing my
work for almost 30 years now,when people move into I and me.
(52:38):
They exist.
You so exist.
Your presence is lovingly,calmly, powerful.
You exist.
And I bet that women would likeyou and will be able to engage
(53:01):
with you.
Where they wouldn't quite knowwhat to do with the protector.
James Ainsworth (53:05):
Yeah.
I can feel within my heart spacethe words, I exist.
And there's a sense of, I canfeel the power.
The expansive, my body is just,I'm upright.
I am expansive kind of thing.
(53:26):
And my whole body posture haschanged.
Kenny De Cruz (53:30):
This isn't pretend.
This is so real.
This is literally as real as itgets and with you existing like
this, you're available to lifeand you're available to love and
what I said earlier on to Jamesis as the man in James, it's
(53:54):
your job to have boundaries,which means it's your job to
meet life.
And to choose how to engage inthe merry dance of relationship
in life with everyone andeverything.
Where, what I heard Jamesprotector say, is it was his job
to keep him away from life.
(54:16):
So life doesn't hurt him and hecan survive life.
In meeting life, I wonderwhether you can check in or
listen to the protector.
So whatever he has to say isheard, then his job is done.
Because I believe if he doesn'tfeel heard, he'll take over.
He'll stop breathing.
(54:38):
If there's no breathing, he'sback.
If there's breathing, he's back.
You're here.
He's a damn good guy withincredible skills.
All I need for you to do isthree things.
Breathe yourself present so thechild is safe.
Listen to your protector soyou're aware.
(55:01):
And then choose how to love inthe moment.
How does that feel?
James Ainsworth (55:08):
It feels powerful.
I can feel the shift thosewords.
Yeah, I can feel the shift of myenergy just through them words
themselves and the words Iexist.
Kenny De Cruz (55:25):
Yeah.
Is there anything you would liketo ask or say or anything?
Take your time.
James Ainsworth (55:37):
The power within is the ability to love on
a much deeper level, a deeperscale than I have ever been able
to love.
There's a sense ofintertwinedness between myself
and the people are and thepeople around me, which just
(56:00):
give us that connection, thatdeep, loving connection and to
be able to breathe into Thebody, that is love, and there's
a sense that we, as I, havechased love and have always
searched for it, but neverreally found it.
(56:24):
But now, there's a sense nowthat all the love I need's
inside, and whoever is meant tocome into my life will come into
my life at the right time, andthey, I, will receive that love.
and me theirs.
Kenny De Cruz (56:45):
This is so clear and powerful.
And in my experience true,because my protector allowed me
to chase love, but not acceptlove because of a fear that if I
(57:07):
accept it and it goes away, Imay not be able to survive.
And my protector allowed me togive love.
But if I received love.
that would be too vulnerable.
The man in
me allows me to be love and share love and live
(57:28):
in love.
And however I am inside isreflected on the outside.
It's not I need to chase and fixor anything out there.
I'll do it inside.
Let's see, and I remember whenit was time for me to meet the
woman of my dreams and I did thesensible thing, or the basic
(57:52):
thing of this is way beforeonline dating, or maybe it was
around, I didn't know.
And I wrote my checklist of myideal woman, and right at the
top was very sensible.
I thought of me or was on ajourney of self-awareness and
able to communicate.
Because I've seen so manyrelationships come a cropper,
where there is no communication,there is no self awareness, she
(58:15):
will carry on, or he will carryon, however they are.
And one on a path and one notcan be very frustrating and
painful and not always lost.
I Had my list and I went intothe happy hunting ground and I
noticed the women that Iattracted and the temptation was
(58:36):
off the scale the most wonderfulperfect plan B first reserve
women and it's like how could Ilet this woman go if I want The
perfect one for me, but maybethere's no such thing and I
should be with this one.
And I carried on changingsomething in myself or seeing in
myself, where am I stuck?
(58:57):
What do I need to unlearn?
What do I need to let go of?
How do I get myself inalignment?
And then I met her.
And it was very old fashionedcourting.
It took six months for the firstkiss.
It took, and I've been, we'vebeen together now 21 years.
It took, I think, 12 yearsbefore she asked me to marry
(59:19):
her.
We had no intention of marryingbecause we'd never seen any
marriages that really worked theway that we wanted it to.
But we've been married for aboutjust over 10 years now.
But it was all about me gettingmyself in alignment and changing
me.
inside, not let me be adifferent trick or act.
It's what's not true.
(59:41):
What needs to shift and get analignment and to set myself free
to have not just access to lovefor me to take it much further
and to get a little cosmic ishow much can I be?
And the more I can be, the moreaccess I have to energy, to
(01:00:02):
life, to God, to whatever youwant to call it.
The more access I have to lifeand to love.
And I feel this already with youis since I met you to now, the
way that you've just settled andlanded and the way that you are
speaking, there's just a calm,loving presence.
James Ainsworth (01:00:22):
Feel that.
I can feel the, yeah.
It's a, the, it was the relaxed,calm, or even looking at my
picture, I can see it.
It's a small screen in thecorner.
Just the body posture is, theshoulders are down.
I'm upright.
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (01:00:39):
And your lips almost want to grin or smile,
but you're holding it back,which just, which shows
personality and life.
That's charming.
That's intriguing.
That's playtime.
That's just love beaming.
How does your child feel?
James Ainsworth (01:00:56):
He feels safe and secure, he feels happy, he
feels, he's playing, he feelslike I can see him playing with
a ball, running around, as achild does.
Kenny De Cruz (01:01:06):
That is success.
There's no fear, there's nosurvival.
What does your protector thinkto everything right now?
James Ainsworth (01:01:15):
He's happy, he's quiet, he's And behind him,
he's at the back, but not, he'snot forgotten.
He's very much, he's doing, itfeels as though he's doing what
he can do.
And watch with a smile on hisface.
Kenny De Cruz (01:01:33):
Wonderful.
I feel that we've done the doingand it's job done.
Yeah.
Unless there's anything else youwant to say or ask?
James Ainsworth (01:01:42):
No.
For me it feels the right point.
Kenny De Cruz (01:01:47):
Great.
So Do you want to go and kickthat bucket or whatever and come
back and I'll speak with James?
James Ainsworth (01:01:52):
Yeah.
Okay.
Kenny De Cruz (01:01:54):
Cool.
Yeah,
James Ainsworth (01:01:57):
that feels good.
That feels
Kenny De Cruz (01:02:00):
I'd rather the practical and living it than the
theory and talking about it orselling it.
And here we are, and this feelsfucking wonderful.
James Ainsworth (01:02:11):
That's it.
I think sometimes you can listento podcasts and they give all
the words and stuff, but thenthere's nothing But people can
actually do or take awaysometimes from podcasts.
So I feel as though this is justright.
And I feel as though it'd begood to do sessions with other
people similar to this so thatthey can witness there and then
(01:02:34):
the impact that people can have.
Kenny De Cruz (01:02:37):
Absolutely.
Totally.
I remember that it's LawrenceJohn who put us in contact from
the mankind project.
James Ainsworth (01:02:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (01:02:47):
And I remember I did, I've been holding men's
groups for, I've been saying 25years for a few years.
So it's probably more than 25years because I'm not very good
at counting.
And then in 2005, I did the newwarrior training adventure.
(01:03:10):
Because more than anything, Iwanted to check that I'm not
some megalomaniac blagger.
And it's all about me and mypower and that the work that I'm
doing with men is in alignment.
I went and did it, but the big,the first freak out was that in
order to get to the site, whichwas just, I think it begins with
(01:03:34):
a K, it's up the road from youand it's a scout place or
something.
Kebbleston.
Kebbleston.
That's where I did it.
James Ainsworth (01:03:40):
Kebbleston, yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (01:03:42):
Kibblestone.
James Ainsworth (01:03:43):
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (01:03:44):
I remember that on the way there, we were near
Eccleshaw.
We didn't go past it, but I sawthe signs and that gave me the
heebie jeebies.
And then we literally drove pasta house on where it begins with
a W and it's a roundabout andthere's a post office.
(01:04:05):
And that was where I lived for ashort time between refugee camps
and had the most horrendous timeof my life.
So before even getting toKibblestone, I was triggered by
refugee camp, I was triggered bytrauma, I was triggered by so
many things that fucked me up.
And I got to the site, a rawgibbering wreck, before anything
(01:04:27):
even started.
So it's great that, that broughtus together, and here we are.
James Ainsworth (01:04:35):
Yeah, I did the warrior, new warrior training in
2022, and I think it wasNovember 2022.
And I need to go back andactually help by assisting other
people.
I'd love to do that next year,possibly.
Cool.
Talkable.
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (01:04:52):
So what would you like to know, or do, or talk
about before we end this podcastepisode?
And thank you so much for havingme on as a guest.
James Ainsworth (01:05:03):
Absolute pleasure.
So let's finish off by justtelling people what, actually,
what you do.
What do you do?
Kenny De Cruz (01:05:10):
I am strangely an agony uncle, so men write in
with their problems to theeyepaper and every Monday
there's a question and answeronline.
Every Tuesday, usually I'm onpage 35.
I've been holding men's groupsfor, I've been holding mixed
groups for 28, 29 years, men'sgroups, probably 26, 27, 25.
(01:05:36):
I don't know.
I started holding men's groupsbecause I was away from the UK
for five years.
I moved to Fiji where I did workin development.
I sat with the elders invillages and islands.
I worked with Mother Teresa inCalcutta with dying men.
I had an actual health centre inSydney.
(01:05:56):
It's then that I started holdingmen's groups, travelled the
world, had lots of adventures,came back to the UK and my
friends.
Turned into fuckwits.
So I got them in the room, about16 of them, I think it was.
And I basically said, you usedto be my best friends.
Now you're a bunch of fuckwitsbecause you're distracted by
(01:06:17):
drink, drugs, sex, power, money,love, addiction, God knows
what's going on, but I need tobe met at some depth.
I don't know what a men's groupis, but we're starting one now.
You're all in it and I'll stillcome raving, but I need more.
And that's how it all started.
And then people heard about itand people heard about it.
I took it out of my lounge.
(01:06:38):
I got ground rules together andeverything.
And it's just grown and grownover the years.
So it's been many years thatI've been holding live.
open groups and closed groups inLondon.
And then I started with what doyou call them, online groups.
And just before the UK went onlockdown I was in a West End
(01:07:00):
show, my friends girlfriend, nowwife, was the star of this
amazing musical.
So we watched that, my wife,some friends.
On the way back, I got a textfrom the guy who did, who filmed
and organized my onlinetraining, Adrian.
Was it's his partner and I'vegot an online training to train
people how to communicate withmen and hold men's groups and
(01:07:23):
use various tools.
So it was his partner andanother guy texted me saying
I've got the symptoms.
You might have COVID isolate.
So I isolated, I was working onzoom third floor flat in London,
working on zoom day and night.
And I noticed that I keptlooking out of the window and
(01:07:44):
expecting to see the military.
And I noticed that I keptlistening and it's like I was
listening, when you hear thefridge go off and you realize
it, I was listening for thegunfire to come back because I
thought the silence was betweengunfire and I was having strange
feelings in my body.
(01:08:04):
And then I realized that I wastriggered back to when I was in
Africa, when my family were onthe death list with Idi Amin.
And there was curfew and therewas a lot of military.
on street corners, peopleweren't allowed to stop and talk
to each other.
And we lived near Idi Amin, andthere was a lot of gunfire.
And we had to go into hiding, wehad death threats.
(01:08:26):
So I was triggered back to then,the day we went on lockdown, I
started online groups.
And they've been on every dayever since.
And The thinking behind that,because a lot of my friends and
clients have been to boardingschool or detention or locked in
their room or whatever thetrauma was, and I thought people
(01:08:49):
are going to be triggered.
And if men can speak things out,they're not going to lash out on
other people or lashing onthemselves.
So people need to speak thingsout.
So either I Or people who I'vetrained hold these groups every
day online, just go tomensgroups.
co.
(01:09:09):
uk and people basically hangout, be heard and get real about
what's going on in life.
And it's brilliant.
So I've been holding thosegroups every day.
I just launched a training, I'lldo another one next year for men
and women who are leaders of menor therapists, coaches
(01:09:29):
organizational psychologists,whoever wants to learn the tools
and it's online and live.
So at 60, at the tender age of60, cue you saying, Oh my God,
you don't look 60.
James Ainsworth (01:09:44):
Okay, you didn't look 60, sorry.
Kenny De Cruz (01:09:46):
Thank you.
Now that I'm 60, it's clearlytime for me to just share my
tools.
Whether people want to holdgroups, or work with men, or
lead better lives, it's here aremy tools, take it all.
And that's NICE's my missionnow.
Yeah.
I've got a lot of clients.
Very powerful.
Go to London and it's just somuch fun because for so many
(01:10:07):
years I just held groups and Ididn't tell people my thinking
behind why this and why not thatand how, and whatever.
But now to be able to share mytoys with everyone, it's that I
get better company.
And the, it's exactly what yousaid earlier.
It's preparing for a better,caring, sharing world beyond the
(01:10:27):
separation and destruction thatI feel we are going through and
will continue to go through.
And things need to fall apartbefore they fall together.
Yeah.
I agree.
And we're in the fall apartstage and we can hold it
together with love.
With exactly what you did inthis last hour, this is how to
(01:10:50):
hold it together by beingpresent and connected and here
we are.
So
in a nutshell, that's parts of my story and
what I do.
And I, my, my public face.
is really quite shit because Idon't really do social media.
My profiles are probably crapbecause I'm just I love people.
(01:11:13):
I'm not really great with all ofthat, but what's my web address?
themanwhisperer.
co.
uk Yeah, probably.
And I'll get someone on thewhole social media stuff to tidy
it up at some stage.
I'll
James Ainsworth (01:11:26):
add the links to the the bio which is the
description of the podcast.
But yeah, thank you very much,Kenny.
And thank you very much for thecoaching session.
Kenny De Cruz (01:11:38):
My pleasure.
James Ainsworth (01:11:40):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Incredible.
So thank you very much.
Today's episode.
We demonstrate shadow work.
Through an in-depth coachingsession.
We look at the role of the ego.
The inner protector.
And we look at how emotionalreactions.
Often stem from unresolvedchildhood experiences.
Such as feelings of neglect.
(00:21):
Or unworthiness.
Welcome to Man QuestifyingMeaning, where we help men
navigate modern life, find theirtrue purpose, and redefine
manhood.
I'm your host, James, and eachweek, inspiring guests share
their journeys of overcomingfear Embracing vulnerability and
(00:42):
finding success.
From experts to everyday heroes.
Get practical advice andpowerful insights.
Struggling with career,relationships or personal
growth?
We've got you covered.
Join us on Man Quest to FindMeaning.
Now, let's dive in.
James Ainsworth (01:00):
If you breathe into an uncomfortable feeling
and follow that feeling back, itwill take you into your dark
shadow where a pause button isdepressed in your past.
which needs feeling and healing.
This will release it, as well aswhat might be in the gold shadow
in the present.
(01:20):
Opening up to the future.
So this is a statement thatKenny gave me.
Can you explain a bit moreKenny?
Kenny De Cruz (01:28):
Rather than explaining.
So we demonstrate it.
James Ainsworth (01:32):
Can do
Kenny De Cruz (01:34):
practical.
Let's go from the head intohere.
And now did you, have you hadany uncomfortable feelings
recently?
Anything that's come up?
James Ainsworth (01:42):
It's funny you say that yesterday.
Yes, the last few days I've had,probably yesterday, I realized
that I've been having shadowscoming up but never really
clicked till yesterday.
And it's down, this is going tobe straight into the
vulnerability side of things.
I've, for years, and I still doquite a bit now, have, I've
(02:04):
always had problems whenapproaching women, especially
women I like.
And Quite often, when I approachwomen I like, I tend to freeze,
I tend to forget what I wasgoing to say, I shy away,
there's that un feeling ofunworthiness, and what I've
noticed is that, Like the last24 hours or 24, probably 36
(02:31):
hours.
Now there's been occasions wheresomething's happened and I've
gone like freezing.
I almost come acrossembarrassed.
I almost come across a sense of.
I start to feel a little bitweird.
Am I a weird person?
And that is something I've beenworking on.
Weird, to accept weird as a partof who I am.
(02:52):
And so it's these shadows comingup of weirdness, of not feeling
worthy of yeah.
But I know there's gold inthere.
Kenny De Cruz (03:01):
Wow.
So this is live right now.
If you breathe into it and justfeel it back here and now.
It sounds to me, I've got towork with this so much with men.
If there's a woman that theylike, it's almost like shock or
panic or they turn into scaredlittle boys or something.
(03:24):
If you feel into it and youbreathe and you follow the
feeling back, where or when doesit take you?
James Ainsworth (03:30):
Takes you back to what always comes as a little
boy.
There's this sense of that boywho's afraid, who almost feels
unwanted.
Kenny De Cruz (03:44):
And how old were you then?
If you follow the feeling back,when can you see around you
what's going on?
Around six?
James Ainsworth (03:51):
Six.
Yeah.
Around about six.
Kenny De Cruz (03:54):
And what was going on for him?
James Ainsworth (03:56):
I think it was more, I feel as though.
The child then was like being alittle bit neglected, nobody was
coming to him.
I don't know the exactsituation, but tuning into my
inner child is a sense that hefeels as though he's not getting
his needs met.
(04:17):
He feels lost.
He feels lonely.
He feels unloved.
Kenny De Cruz (04:22):
Thankfully, this isn't about the facts.
The facts don't come into it,this is about the feelings.
And you followed your feelingback and you've taken me to a
place where it feels like youwere vulnerable and maybe
invisible or neglected or notnoticed or not protected, not
cherished, not taken intoconsideration.
(04:44):
And the details don't reallymatter right now.
What matters right now is you'vetaken me to a place, a very real
place.
And it feels like you've builton this place.
And I wonder what this place hasto do with women.
And it might be that you wantedthe care or the nurture from
your mother.
And it sounds like this comes upmore from being around women
(05:07):
than men.
But some people it's both, butsome people it's men, but some
people it's, I don't know,social climbing, famous men,
businessmen, God knows what.
What would you say that boyneeds?
He
James Ainsworth (05:20):
just needs some love and attention.
To make him feel wanted.
To self soothe myself.
Hug myself, kind of thing.
And allow that inner child tofeel that he is wanted.
And that he is needed.
And yeah, he exists.
(05:40):
There's a big one.
He exists.
Kenny De Cruz (05:42):
He
James Ainsworth (05:42):
exists.
There we go.
Kenny De Cruz (05:46):
Wow.
And I'd say there might beanother part to it.
Firstly, he's not invisible.
He exists.
Secondly, he needs to feel safe.
Surely.
James Ainsworth (05:58):
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (06:00):
And right here and right now, I would say that
you are the man who can be withthe boy, probably the only adult
that he can rely on to always behere.
So he is safe.
And
for me, that can literally happen in a breath.
(06:23):
And maybe try this, just take adeep breath in and feel where
you feel him in your body rightnow.
And all you need to say,brilliant.
And what I do is all I need tosay is all right, I'm here.
Don't need to explain anything,don't need to engage him, all he
needs to know is he's alright.
James Ainsworth (06:44):
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (06:45):
Because you're here.
Two things happen there.
Firstly, he's safe.
Secondly, the man in you is hereto make him safe.
And with this woman, and withwomen, I'm guessing that they
want to know the man in you.
And the man in you is the partof you that's present and
(07:05):
connected right here and rightnow.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Not some monkey flashing thecash and twitching muscles or
doing somersaults.
That's not a man.
That's showing off rather thanshowing up.
But with your child safe, theman in you is here, and it's the
man in you that can engage withher, with anyone and everyone,
(07:29):
and with the world.
James Ainsworth (07:31):
Nice like that.
It's it feels very empowering.
Just before, actually, justbefore I came on, I allowed
myself to step into my Kingenergy.
So I already feel empowered fromsitting and being in the King
energy, but then at the sametime here in this moment, it's
been able to bring that childself.
(07:54):
And have the king, the one whorules your kingdom, the one who
is able to do you know thearchetypes?
Yeah.
So work with the warrior, themagician and the lover, and to
be able to relay orders down tothe rest of the kingdom, but
with humility and to honor thechild that will soon take over.
(08:17):
He is the child, he's the onethat brings it up.
Kenny De Cruz (08:20):
There's a lot more to it than king, warrior,
lover, and magician.
Do you want to tap into thatkind of stuff?
Do you want to do this?
This is, these are the sessionsthat I generally do with people
in one on one with one on oneclients, which is a little bit
different to what I do ingroups.
(08:41):
But would you like to experiencethat?
And no is fine, if you'd rathernot.
So
James Ainsworth (08:47):
what we'll do first.
Kenny De Cruz (08:49):
Yeah.
James Ainsworth (08:50):
Is we'll just, actually no let's go for it.
Let's go for it.
And then perhaps when we've doneit for a few minutes or
whatever, we'll connect to yourstory.
Kenny De Cruz (09:00):
Okay how about we throw all structure and
everything else out of thewindow and see what happens And
at some stage I'll run throughmy story.
James Ainsworth (09:14):
Yeah.
If it's relevant.
Yeah.
That sounds good to me.
You're making me feeluncomfortable, but that's good.
That's good.
That's roll with it.
Because sometimes having thatkind of idea that having that
structure is great.
But then sometimes changing astructure around or just
completely binning it and makingyourself feel uncomfortable is
(09:34):
Just as good.
Kenny De Cruz (09:36):
And the first step we're going to do is to
make you feel comfortable so youknow that you're in control.
What I'd like you to do, I don'tknow how wired up you are, is to
stand up, go and knock on thedoor, or touch something, do
something, and when you comeback I would like to speak to
your inner protector, the partof you that's been protecting
(09:59):
you.
James Ainsworth (10:01):
I think he's already here.
Inner protector, okay.
You got the inner protector.
Kenny De Cruz (10:07):
So you are James's inner protector?
I certainly am.
James Ainsworth (10:11):
Yep.
Kenny De Cruz (10:13):
I'm really pleased to meet you.
I need one thing from you beforewe stop just hanging out and
having a chat.
The one thing I need from you,as James's inner protector, is
that at any stage, During thispodcast, our time together, at
any stage, if you feel thatJames is too vulnerable, and you
(10:38):
want things to stop, even justfor you and I to have a chat, or
to stop for good, whatever,you'll simply say stop, and I'll
stop.
How's that?
James Ainsworth (10:49):
I think I can feel the vulnerability already.
I can feel the almost like he'sgoing to say stop now.
If you want to
Kenny De Cruz (10:56):
say stop now, you say stop now.
Your job's to protect, James.
No,
James Ainsworth (11:00):
let's carry on.
Let's carry on.
Kenny De Cruz (11:02):
Okay.
So yeah, safety first.
As far as I'm concerned, andit's really interesting the
beginning of this conversation Iwas speaking with James about
how he can be in front of women.
And then I asked him to followthe feeling back to where
things, I called it a depressedpause button where things have
stopped.
(11:22):
And what he said to me is thatat six years old he felt
vulnerable, he felt literallythat he didn't exist.
Is that when you showed up toprotect him from that
vulnerability?
Yeah.
James Ainsworth (11:37):
I turned up to attack him when he was
roundabout two, when he felt alittle bit alone, a little bit
vulnerable, a little bit ofloneliness.
Kenny De Cruz (11:52):
So you showed up at two.
And what would you say in anutshell, your job for James is?
What do you do for him?
James Ainsworth (12:00):
So I make sure I keep him safe by not allowing
him to Go beyond his boundariesbecause beyond his boundaries is
the unknown.
It's where fear kicks in.
It's where he is stepping out.
And I don't know what's going tohappen to him.
So by keeping him in hisboundaries, he is safe.
He is safe.
(12:20):
He is protected.
He is and there I can allow himto be loved.
Kenny De Cruz (12:25):
That's quite a job.
And you've been doing this forhim since he was two years old.
James Ainsworth (12:30):
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (12:32):
Wow.
Do you like your work?
James Ainsworth (12:37):
It's, I feel it's not about liking.
It's about protecting.
This is my role.
Like you might have a role inyour work and you might not like
your role, but you get on and dothe role as best as you possibly
can.
That's how I feel about it.
Kenny De Cruz (12:54):
So really it doesn't matter whether you like
it or not.
This is what you're here for,and you just do it.
James Ainsworth (13:02):
Yeah.
That's my role.
I do it.
It's done and dusted.
Kenny De Cruz (13:06):
And on a scale of 1 to 10, how in control of his
life would you say you are?
Six.
Where's the other four?
Does something else take over,or do you hand over to another
part?
James Ainsworth (13:21):
James has been on this seven to eight year path
of personal growth and spiritualdevelopment.
And I feel as though by himdoing this, he is kind, I am
starting to lose quite a lot ofcontrol.
So the other, that four is thepart of him that it's growing
and there's so many things whichI've tried to protect him, but
(13:42):
his stubbornness just keptpushing him and pushing him to
go out and grow and to take onand to be a step into the fear,
Kenny De Cruz (13:52):
right?
What do you think to all ofthis?
Is it working?
Is it dangerous?
Is it risky?
Do you approve
James Ainsworth (14:00):
if it was up to me?
I would keep him where he is.
So just to clarify a little bithere with this session is that
he I keep him on the farm.
So he's not a huge fan ofworking on his dad's farm.
He wants to quit the farm, but Ikeep him up the farm simply on
the bound, on the idea that heis, exactly what he's going to
(14:21):
do is protected.
He might not like it, but he isprotected and he is safe.
Kenny De Cruz (14:27):
Safety first.
It sounds like your job is hissafety.
James Ainsworth (14:31):
Yeah.
I'm the, I'm not the safe, I'mthe safety officer.
I'm the one within the themagician who keeps him safe as
being the safety officer, whichkind of limits his movements.
Kenny De Cruz (14:45):
And would you say it limits anything else in his
life?
James Ainsworth (14:49):
It limits a lot of things, but it keeps him
safe.
It limits relationships.
It limits his way he wants togrow.
It limits his progression withregards to life.
It limits his ways of purpose.
But as I said, he is quite acharacter in himself and he is
(15:11):
starting to really step out.
But I'm also seeing that when hedoes step out, he can quite
often be safe anywhere.
So I have over the last seven toeight years, I have relinquished
a lot of control that I oncehad.
On the grounds that he is, withhis growth, he is able to step
(15:34):
up and be protected.
And also, there is other powersat play here as well, powers
bigger than myself.
And bit by bit, I amrelinquishing a lot of my
control.
Kenny De Cruz (15:50):
And things are working.
He remains safe.
He remains protected.
He survives.
Yeah.
And when would you say he's athis happiest?
James Ainsworth (16:04):
He's actually at his happiest, actually, when
he steps out.
Which is why I'm starting torelinquish a lot of my control.
And it's mainly not because heis pushing me away, because I
feel as though he is almostworking with me, rather than
(16:25):
against me.
And I'm able to protect himwhere I can.
And it is idea that with regardsto life, generally, I do feel he
has a purpose bigger thanhimself.
And he is stepping into that.
And he is safe.
Kenny De Cruz (16:45):
Would you say that You and his purpose, his
stepping out, his alignment withhimself, his passion with life
is in alignment.
Or would you say there's atension there?
Because I wonder whether thiscould be made easier, more
efficient, calmer.
James Ainsworth (17:07):
I feel as though at this moment in time,
there is a little bit of a,there's quite still a little bit
of resistance now over the lasteight years, eight years ago, he
had lots of resistance.
He had lots of limiting beliefs.
He had lots of things going on,but over the last eight years.
78 years with his growth, he hasbeen able to work through a lot
(17:30):
of this resistance with limitingbeliefs.
And he's come to a point wherethere's a few odd things here
and there.
And I suppose the one key area,which I try to keep in the safe
the most is in relationshipsbecause he has been hurt quite a
few times.
And it's this idea that if he'sable to really step out, if he
(17:50):
steps out too much, He getsburned.
Kenny De Cruz (17:54):
Okay.
How well do you know the man inhim?
James Ainsworth (17:59):
Not very well, but enough to relinquish through
in my control.
Kenny De Cruz (18:05):
So you trust the man in him, the two of you work
together and get on?
James Ainsworth (18:10):
He hasn't shown me not to trust him, so I trust
him enough not to put too muchcontrol in front.
But the idea that he has so,with what's been going on
recently, he has really steppedout, but he's never been in a
place of complete unsafety.
(18:32):
So I trust him enough to knowthat he has the, he has myself
and the inner child back.
Kenny De Cruz (18:44):
Interesting you say that.
Because I wondered whether whenyou're around the child is
surviving, and when he's around,the child feels safe.
And the reason I say that is youshowed up to take care of the
(19:07):
child.
in the absence of an adult.
And therefore, the two of you,you're going to keep that child
as safe as you can surviving.
Your job is survival.
Though, I wondered about when heshows up, he is an adult, and if
he's taking care of the child,then survival's over.
(19:28):
And because that job is done,which was your core job, I
wondered whether your skillscould be used rather than
surviving the present and past,but more informing the present
and what might be letting himgrow into a bigger life because
(19:50):
you've got skills.
I bet you've got really sharpskills where you know what's
going to happen, you know ifthere's danger, you know if
something's going to kick off,you can read the room, you can
read the energy etc, because youprobably had to do that to make
sure that he was safe from theage of two to date.
Those are fine skills.
(20:12):
And those skills can be adaptedfor his growth.
How do you feel about that?
James Ainsworth (20:18):
It's funny you say that because there's a idea
that Deep down, I know thatthere's big changes going on,
and I can connect to the bigchanges and know that sometimes
I can be in the way.
And it's a sense that I'm ableto sometimes take a step back
(20:43):
and allow the other part to takeover, the James, the B and the,
his soul to take over.
And Sometimes, yes, I do, I feela little bit neglected as a
safety officer because he'staken charge and I've lost my
(21:04):
role.
So maybe, yes, there's a more ofa way that I can take more of a
back step back and I can, I'mable to then connect to that
inner child when the inner childneeds me for a safety purpose.
And in a sense that.
(21:25):
he's started to change his ideaaround fear, because now he
started to see fear, notnecessarily as a bad thing, but
as the unknown.
And so I'm starting to be ableto relinquish my control on that
too.
Kenny De Cruz (21:42):
Very interesting.
It feels like we're meeting atthe right time.
If you're questioning thesethings, there's one more thing I
want to run by you.
I've got a hunch that you andThat boy from the age of two,
from the age of six, that boy inchildhood who was invisible and
didn't quite exist, wasneglected or unseen, have a
(22:06):
couple of things in common.
And for you, I wonder whetheryou realize that if it wasn't
for you protecting him andtaking care of him all these
years, that he wouldn't havesurvived.
His survival is down to you.
James Ainsworth (22:24):
Thank you for saying
Kenny De Cruz (22:25):
that.
How
James Ainsworth (22:26):
does that
Kenny De Cruz (22:26):
feel?
Breathe it in.
James Ainsworth (22:29):
It feels good to know that I have protected
the boy when he needed me themost and it takes almost
sometimes a bigger man or abigger person to take a step
back when he knows his job hasbeen done and to allow something
bigger to carry on the role, butbeing able to stay in the
(22:53):
background.
in case there's a sense of need.
Kenny De Cruz (22:57):
Spot on.
Absolutely spot on.
The first thing that I need todo is acknowledge you for what
you've done.
And that job is well donebecause he survived and is on
the edge of growth and reallystepping into who he is.
And the second thing you saidstraight away there, which is
personally, I wouldn't want youto go anywhere because if for
(23:22):
any reason the shit hits the fanor like in the cartoon, suddenly
a piano falls from the sky, thenwithout any hesitation, I would
expect you to take over at thedrop of a hat, move them from
the falling piano or whateverthe danger is, and he's safe
again.
If that's your job, that's yourjob.
(23:44):
When there's danger.
James Ainsworth (23:46):
Thank you.
Kenny De Cruz (23:48):
But, or maybe I should get my butt out of your
face and say and.
And.
In his progress, I feel that youwould be the most perfect
advisor of, as he moves forward,as he's faced with a new person,
(24:10):
a woman, a work thing, a socialthing, whatever comes up in
front of him in his life.
that he listens to you and youadvise him, trust this one, say
this, don't say that, don'ttrust that one, turn right,
don't turn left, stop for aminute and just think before you
(24:30):
make this decision, whatever itis that you have to say in that
moment, that you advise him.
And he hears you.
And to me, with your skills,knowing him, knowing the way
he's wired and where he's comingfrom, and clearly having his
best interests at heart, becauseyour job is his safety and your
protection of him, who'd bebetter to advise him as he
(24:54):
grows?
And how valuable would that be?
James Ainsworth (24:58):
I feel as though you're right.
I am an invaluable asset toJames and to the, as I call him
little to Jimmy, I call him.
And it's more along the linesthat, yeah I'm here if he needs
me kind of thing.
Kenny De Cruz (25:15):
Then how will you know if he needs you?
Because I feel that you'reliterally going to hand Jimmy
over to the men.
So he's just, Safe.
And that job is done.
And then you can be free toadvise James.
(25:36):
as he moves into a bigger,better life.
James Ainsworth (25:39):
It's not necessarily about when will I
know, I almost feel like thereneeds to be a partnership
between me and James, his truebeing, the truest thing, a
partnership where he knows Hisrole, I know my role, and
(26:00):
there's got to be a sense ofintertwined ness, that's the
word, intertwined ness betweenus both, where certain
situations might require Jamesmore, whereas certain
situations, May require me more,but it's not for me also.
(26:20):
It's not about taking fullcontrol.
Like you should do this, andthis it's about me saying, okay,
go into a little boy and saying,okay, we need to do, this is a,
this is what I'm suggesting.
We need to do this and thenallowing.
The boy or James to take thenecessary steps, but creating a
(26:46):
fully wedded relationship,
Kenny De Cruz (26:49):
let me see if I've got this right.
And there might be some thingsthat I say that might be a
little bit different to yours.
So hear me out and then correctme at the end, because this is
really important the way thatthis is set up.
So it all fits and workstogether.
And.
You are in alignment, your allthe different parts are in
(27:12):
alignment, not just withinJames, but also with life, the
way that life wants to meet himand leave him, lead him forward.
So my take on this as well aswhat I'm hearing, is that you
literally hand Jimmy over to theman because then Jimmy's no
longer surviving.
(27:34):
Jimmy's safe and he can justplay or.
be part of nature.
Or, for me, a safe in a child isthe closest part to inspiration,
or to God, or to nature, or tolove, or to guidance, or however
you want to put it.
So with Jimmy Safe, it's almostlike there's spiritual
(27:58):
connection.
And with James, the man in themiddle, he's got that spiritual
guidance.
He's got your guidance.
which is worth its weight ingold because you know him inside
out and it's logical and it'ssafety and it's linear and it's
exactly what he needs to guidehim.
With these two, he can bepresent in the center, attract
(28:23):
what life will bring him, andhe'll listen and be able to
respond, be able to take a stepin or a step out or a step
forward or stay still, know whatto say or what to do.
But with The committee and whoknows who else right now is on
(28:43):
the committee on side, thenJames can be present and your
job with the child, unlessthere's real danger is literally
done and your job with hisgrowth.
is literally just beginning.
But this means that James is inthe center, and either you'll
take over if there's realdanger, or he'll listen to you
(29:07):
all the time, or he'll hand overto you if it's a job that he
knows is yours.
Like he might hand over to thepart of him that works on the
farm, or the part of him thatplays pool, or the part of him
that has a hobby, or the part,different parts for different
things.
How does that feel?
Is that about right?
Or did I take over or get itwrong?
James Ainsworth (29:28):
That feels right, but also wrong.
It feels as though the child,yes, needs to be in the center.
But there has to be an ounce of,rather than allowing the child
to say, Okay, you need to takeover.
Kenny De Cruz (29:46):
Oh no, not Jimmy.
Jimmy's safe.
It's James, the man who's in thecenter.
Okay.
Jimmy's just playing with Loveand nature and freedom and,
seeing the beauty in everythingand attracting the goodness of
life.
That's what free spiritedchildren do.
No job for the child.
Child is safe and free.
James Ainsworth (30:08):
Yeah, I think there's a time and a place for
me to also to be able to growand evolve.
And this is, I feel, almost mytime, it's almost my time to do
that, so that I can help thecollective James to achieve
(30:31):
what's on his purpose in thismoment, in this life, in this
world.
Because I feel as though, Withregards to the past and towards
other lives, there's been a bigshift in how the human race has
changed over the last 20, 30years.
(30:52):
And it's time for us to changeour narrative, to change how we
communicate, to how we can helpthose to grow into the people
who will lead this world andtake the steps necessary to help
this planet thrive.
(31:15):
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (31:16):
How does it feel to say that?
James Ainsworth (31:19):
Feels good.
It feels good to know that weare on the forefront of change,
big change.
And it's a sense that we, as acollective, as in safety
officers of people who are atthe forefront at this moment in
time, can help.
(31:39):
Children who are going soon tocome into this world to feel
safer.
Kenny De Cruz (31:45):
And I feel very often this is where purpose
comes into the picture.
Your purpose started with Jimmy.
And James's purpose, I feel,will continue to take care of
kids like Jimmy.
Kids like Jimmy.
Won't have to go through whatJimmy went through.
And very often for me, I findthat the people I work with,
(32:08):
their purpose is puttingsomething right for others that
wasn't right for them.
So I feel you've gone fullcircle here and that just feels
good inside.
I feel
like present in my body and safe and satisfied
listening to you hear that Ifeel that the way that your mind
(32:32):
works so quickly reacting towhat might happen or what is
happening, all of this is sovaluable and so quick as
information for the man in Jamesto receive.
So he can listen, evaluate, takea breath and choose how to
(32:53):
respond.
It's like you carry on reactingand operating at the speed of
light and let him groundeverything you have to say and
respond.
listening and being in touchwith everything.
So it feels like we're at astage now where it's time to
build a bridge between you andthe man in James.
(33:15):
So the two of you know how towork together.
And something that James readout right in the beginning was I
feel what we've done, which isI've met you in James's Dark
Shadow in the past, where therewas unfinished business with
(33:35):
being invisible, neglect, etc.
Being unnurtured, unprotected,uncherished.
And now that pause button can bereleased, because we know it.
We felt it.
And we're literally taking Jimmyfrom there, and putting him with
an adult, to Perpetually be safeand loved and cherished and seen
(33:59):
and nurtured and just be able toplay, just to I don't know, fly
around the Garden of Eden orwhatever it is that to be in
bliss, to be in love.
So with this work in literallydoing that, it's opening up the
gold shadow, because can youimagine how much love this inner
(34:21):
work can bring?
James can bring with a freespirited child into the world.
It's not doing fixing.
It's being loving.
And I feel this is the alchemythat we can do now.
Now, what I need you to doinitially is to support the man
(34:41):
in being present, because hewill be used to you taking over
and you being in charge.
And he needs to be used to beingpresent and connected all the
time.
This,
maybe this could be seen as trickery.
It's not meant to be seen astrickery.
After you've supported him andhe knows to take his place, I
(35:05):
don't want you to trust himunless he has proved that he
will always be here.
It's not your job to mollycoddlehim and take care of him.
It's his job to take his placeso he can work with you and you
can work with him.
He needs to prove that he'll behere all the time.
(35:25):
Now, the way to bring him in isliterally, as soon as you notice
that you're in charge and he'snot here, is literally to take a
deep breath in, get in yourbody, get into the ground, And
be present, and as you breathein, you feel little Jimmy, and
(35:48):
as you breathe out, you hand himthe child, and you say, get on
with it, I'm by your side.
So you're here, your breath isinviting him in.
Would it be fair to say that youlive in James's head?
James Ainsworth (36:03):
Yes.
I'm the head, and I must admit,he, there's a sense now that he
is here more often than hewasn't a year ago.
Kenny De Cruz (36:15):
What we're looking for is every moment.
Simple as that.
It's the only option.
It's not an option that Jimmy,for one moment, is not being
protected, or is not feelingsafe.
So he needs to be here at everymoment.
And
also, with him here every moment, then life can
(36:38):
happen.
Because I know in my life lifewould bring me all sorts of
good, bad, and ugly things.
But I was off in my head, beingattached to how I want things to
be, and I didn't even notice thegoodness that life brought until
I got here.
I made this change in my life,and then I chose what to engage
(36:58):
with and what not.
And if he's not here in everymoment, then we're going to go
to an old script of, no women,no love.
Bob Marley, wasn't it?
James Ainsworth (37:09):
singing.
Kenny De Cruz (37:11):
And also the drudgery of life of what has to
be done, rather than the joy inlife of having an attitude of
living a bigger, better, morefulfilling life.
So we're going to flip that.
So it's literally breathe in.
include yourself in the mind,because he lives in all of your
(37:31):
body and is grounded right hereand right now, not just in
alignment with himself, but inalignment between heaven and
earth.
So one breath, and that's howpowerful your breath can be.
And you're here and he's backand the child is safe.
So
far, does anything not fit?
(37:52):
Do you have any questions?
And how does this feel?
James Ainsworth (37:55):
No, it feels powerful.
It feels liberating.
It's a sense that he's able to,I'm able to be present to be in
the moment, to be that sense ofpurpose, that drive.
And is this a feeling ofcomplete power in the inside
(38:17):
myself?
And there's a sense of warriorlike, ah, kind of thing.
But also the, there's theintuition, there's the
connecting to the emotions, thelover.
And obviously I'm using thearchetype series, but yeah, it's
just connective, collective toall.
Kenny De Cruz (38:35):
Yeah.
It's a much bigger picture thanyou and surviving Jimmy against
the world.
It's seriously.
Congratulations for a job welldone.
James Ainsworth (38:48):
Thank you.
Kenny De Cruz (38:48):
That chapter, that hard work for how many
years, you've done it, and thatchapter is over.
And good on you.
That was a lot of work.
Relentless.
You're not kidding.
This reminds me, before movingon, this reminds me of one
(39:10):
thing.
I remember when we first spokeon the phone.
I said to you that my first homein the UK was in Eccleshawn in a
refugee camp.
Yesterday was our 52ndanniversary of landing in the UK
and being taken to Eccleshaw.
And I remember it was less than10 years ago because I would
(39:32):
phone my mother because myfather wasn't there.
He was supposed to be killed.
So it was my mother, brother andI phoned my mother and I said,
happy refugee anniversary.
And she said, we survived.
And for the first time in mylife.
In my fifties, I heard herwords, we survived and I could
(39:54):
feel it in my body that we havesurvived and I can stop that
battle and I feel that I'm in avery similar place to you right
now is you survived.
And that chapter is over.
It's done.
Amazing.
(40:14):
And now it's time to live.
James Ainsworth (40:17):
Yeah.
I can feel it.
I can.
And this is, the last 39 yearshave led to this point here.
Where now it's Linguishingcontrol to just step into
something, a purpose bigger,something bigger than ourself.
Kenny De Cruz (40:35):
Yeah.
James Ainsworth (40:36):
Something where it's something ginormous.
And that's the power of beingable to work with these parts.
So work with the shadow.
Kenny De Cruz (40:51):
Your job has never been boundaries.
That's not a protector's job.
It's the man's job to haveboundaries and boundaries is
where men meet women, men meetmen meet life, men meet
everything.
It's this is where we meet.
And now where shall we go?
(41:13):
It's like an initial meeting andthen the merry dance of life.
So There's a whole new dimensiongoing to open up from here, and
with your help, James can dothis.
In fact, I believe he's beenaching to live into this, and
(41:34):
we'll put things in order tomake it happen.
Unless you have any questions oranything else to say, take your
time sitting here, but whenyou're ready, go and knock on
that door or kick the bin orwhatever you did, and I'll speak
with James again.
James Ainsworth (41:51):
How are you?
Feels good.
Feels really good.
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (41:58):
I so respect your protector.
And I could see the way hechanged from the beginning when
we first met to the end.
He changed his arms were out.
He was present.
He was alive.
When we first met, it was almostlike I have to survive this
shit.
I have to work on the farm.
(42:18):
It's like perpetual groundholdday, but he changed and he seems
really up for it.
James Ainsworth (42:25):
It felt very much like he was up for a
challenge.
And there's a sense thatobviously within challenges,
that's where the growth.
And our growth happens the most.
And it's this sense that from myown perspective, it's there.
So then I've done quite a bit ofshadow work people and stuff.
(42:45):
And it's it's so powerful to beable to connect to these parts
of ourselves that have beenthere to serve us, but sometimes
we see it more as it'srestrictive and it almost come,
it can be keeps us.
almost locked away sometimesuntil we are able to have that
conversation with these deeperparts to say that, you, your
(43:09):
job's done, your role's done.
Now you can grow into it.
You have, you can let go ofcontrol.
You can allow these parts toreally step in to Allow
something to something else totake some of the burden.
When he sees the burden.
Kenny De Cruz (43:27):
Yeah, and I would say it's very male and to be
respected that men need to knowand understand first.
Because there has to be safetyfirst.
I
wouldn't say the female mind is like that, but
the women that I work with, theydon't always have to know
anything, everything.
(43:48):
And it's just different traits,different hormones, who knows
what.
But to know and to have thatsafety first, and I would say
most men fear humiliation andabandonment more than anything,
from when they were boys.
So to have this structure, andthen to have the experience of
(44:08):
it enables and empowers them tomove on.
And your protector earlier onsaid power.
And I really liked the way hesaid power, because I could see
that he was in power in his oldrole, and moving into his new
role.
But that was in power, with thewillingness.
(44:29):
Almost felt like the yearning toempower other people rather than
the boy way or the fair way,which is power over other
people.
And that's detail is soimportant.
And for me, that's thedifference between a boy and a
(44:50):
man.
A boy often comes from fear andsurvival, and it's all
competition, where a man cancome from love and living and
collaboration.
He knows when to pass the ball,he knows when to score.
A man can come from feeling hisfeelings and meeting other
(45:11):
people, where a boy can't affordto feel feelings.
It's all keep it on the surface.
No one will hold me.
No one will meet me.
It's like you and Jimmy.
It was all the, all of that, butsave it up because we need to
survive.
And maybe once we've survivedand it's safe enough, then
(45:32):
things can all unpack and it'sall doing where the feeling
feelings and being with otherpeople at that depth, that's
very men.
And for me, traits that make aman, strangely, are having
access to the masculine and thefeminine traits.
(45:53):
The ability to respond is morefeminine, react is more
masculine.
One isn't good and the otherone's bad.
They're both necessary.
The ability to listen is morefeminine, where boys make a lot
of noise.
And sadly, bad parenting in theold days would be to humiliate
(46:14):
and abandon a boy to break theminto good behavior, because the
noise is inconvenient.
These days, that still goes on,but it's putting them in front
of the screen, and then they getprogrammed by all of these
things, and they're used tobeing in front of the screen
rather than around other people.
Ah, time to move on.
James Ainsworth (46:33):
What I'm suggesting here is that, would
you be willing to do a secondpart?
Kenny De Cruz (46:41):
I would like to do a little bit more now.
Yeah.
So this is complete.
James Ainsworth (46:46):
Okay.
Kenny De Cruz (46:48):
And then let's see.
Because otherwise, we're halfarsed.
James Ainsworth (46:52):
Yeah.
Okay, in that case Let's comeback to your story another time.
Yeah.
Let's go a little bit deeperinto what it, what does it mean
to be a healthy man?
Kenny De Cruz (47:06):
Rather than the theory of it.
Go and knock on the door orsomething, and I'll speak to the
man in you, or the man emergingin you, and let's find out.
James Ainsworth (47:17):
Okay, let's do that, and
Kenny De Cruz (47:19):
Are you the man in James?
James Ainsworth (47:21):
I certainly am.
Kenny De Cruz (47:23):
I've been waiting to meet you.
And James almost suggested wedid it another time, but no, I
want to meet you now.
Here I am.
How is it with you taking careof the child?
Because I spoke to James'sprotector.
(47:45):
about him handing the child overto you.
And it was very clear that thechild was in his heart.
And I said, look, when is withthe man, then it's like, you can
say it's all right.
I'm here.
The child's just free and you'represent.
Was I being presumptuous or isthat about right for you?
James Ainsworth (48:03):
For me, there's a sense of being present in the
body, but sometimes I havenoticed in the past.
Maybe not now.
There was a kind of a battlebetween heart and head and so
(48:24):
being able to switch and tobecome present enough to be able
to drop into the heart is thekey, I feel, to being the man,
to stepping into your power, to,to having a bigger purpose, to,
To interacting with otherpeople, other beings, whatever
(48:45):
you want to call them.
And it's a sense that within theheart space.
That is where expansion happenswithin the heart.
This is where love originates.
Kenny De Cruz (48:57):
Do you feel that now?
James Ainsworth (48:59):
Yeah.
I thought it's, it feels veryliberating to be able to feel
that expansion, to feel that,that bliss, that, that love,
that connection, that sense ofwisdom, which comes from here
and to be able to be in thatplace of.
(49:23):
Growth.
Expansion.
Kenny De Cruz (49:26):
Can I invite you to change one word from what
you've said?
Unless I'm wrong with this.
Because the way that I feel younow, and the way that you're
saying this, it's not that, it'sthis.
Because I'm feeling it with youright here and right now.
James Ainsworth (49:48):
Yeah, that feels powerful.
This.
This.
Kenny De Cruz (49:52):
Yeah.
You are here, right here andright now.
Not only can I feel you as theman in James, but I can feel
safety.
I can feel love.
I can feel grounded.
I can feel presence.
I can feel an expansion.
(50:13):
This feels great.
And what you said in thebeginning about the head and the
heart is I can feel you comingfrom your heart.
And I can feel that you canlisten to the protector who's in
charge of the head.
So you have access to thatrather than being distracted and
(50:35):
overtaken by the head or handingover to the protector.
How does it feel to you?
Because what I said to theprotectors, what I'd like from
you is just to be here all thetime, which is an invitation to
feel this bliss.
And this presence and this loveall the time, and you can listen
(50:56):
to him and you can follow spiritbecause the child is safe and
you're here all the time.
James Ainsworth (51:03):
Feels very empowering, very connected,
interconnected as we are allone.
And it's almost that.
connection within the heart,within our our growth, our
destination, our destiny.
There's a collective power.
(51:25):
And so by being present, bybeing in the body, you are able
to connect to people on a moredeeper level.
Kenny De Cruz (51:37):
I have another suggestion with a change in
words.
I wonder whether your we is moreof an I.
James Ainsworth (51:47):
Yeah, okay.
Kenny De Cruz (51:49):
The reason I say that as well is when I do, then
I notice that those around mealso do.
James Ainsworth (51:58):
I.
Kenny De Cruz (51:59):
But when I say we, then I'm almost saying we
all need to do it.
And it's a need to in thefuture, rather than are doing it
now.
James Ainsworth (52:11):
I.
Yeah.
Powerful.
Kenny De Cruz (52:15):
Yeah.
And what I heard so strongly inthe beginning of my time with
James today was how he wasliterally invisible.
And I know that in myexperience, I've been doing my
work for almost 30 years now,when people move into I and me.
(52:38):
They exist.
You so exist.
Your presence is lovingly,calmly, powerful.
You exist.
And I bet that women would likeyou and will be able to engage
(53:01):
with you.
Where they wouldn't quite knowwhat to do with the protector.
James Ainsworth (53:05):
Yeah.
I can feel within my heart spacethe words, I exist.
And there's a sense of, I canfeel the power.
The expansive, my body is just,I'm upright.
I am expansive kind of thing.
(53:26):
And my whole body posture haschanged.
Kenny De Cruz (53:30):
This isn't pretend.
This is so real.
This is literally as real as itgets and with you existing like
this, you're available to lifeand you're available to love and
what I said earlier on to Jamesis as the man in James, it's
(53:54):
your job to have boundaries,which means it's your job to
meet life.
And to choose how to engage inthe merry dance of relationship
in life with everyone andeverything.
Where, what I heard Jamesprotector say, is it was his job
to keep him away from life.
(54:16):
So life doesn't hurt him and hecan survive life.
In meeting life, I wonderwhether you can check in or
listen to the protector.
So whatever he has to say isheard, then his job is done.
Because I believe if he doesn'tfeel heard, he'll take over.
He'll stop breathing.
(54:38):
If there's no breathing, he'sback.
If there's breathing, he's back.
You're here.
He's a damn good guy withincredible skills.
All I need for you to do isthree things.
Breathe yourself present so thechild is safe.
Listen to your protector soyou're aware.
(55:01):
And then choose how to love inthe moment.
How does that feel?
James Ainsworth (55:08):
It feels powerful.
I can feel the shift thosewords.
Yeah, I can feel the shift of myenergy just through them words
themselves and the words Iexist.
Kenny De Cruz (55:25):
Yeah.
Is there anything you would liketo ask or say or anything?
Take your time.
James Ainsworth (55:37):
The power within is the ability to love on
a much deeper level, a deeperscale than I have ever been able
to love.
There's a sense ofintertwinedness between myself
and the people are and thepeople around me, which just
(56:00):
give us that connection, thatdeep, loving connection and to
be able to breathe into Thebody, that is love, and there's
a sense that we, as I, havechased love and have always
searched for it, but neverreally found it.
(56:24):
But now, there's a sense nowthat all the love I need's
inside, and whoever is meant tocome into my life will come into
my life at the right time, andthey, I, will receive that love.
and me theirs.
Kenny De Cruz (56:45):
This is so clear and powerful.
And in my experience true,because my protector allowed me
to chase love, but not acceptlove because of a fear that if I
(57:07):
accept it and it goes away, Imay not be able to survive.
And my protector allowed me togive love.
But if I received love.
that would be too vulnerable.
The man in
me allows me to be love and share love and live
(57:28):
in love.
And however I am inside isreflected on the outside.
It's not I need to chase and fixor anything out there.
I'll do it inside.
Let's see, and I remember whenit was time for me to meet the
woman of my dreams and I did thesensible thing, or the basic
(57:52):
thing of this is way beforeonline dating, or maybe it was
around, I didn't know.
And I wrote my checklist of myideal woman, and right at the
top was very sensible.
I thought of me or was on ajourney of self-awareness and
able to communicate.
Because I've seen so manyrelationships come a cropper,
where there is no communication,there is no self awareness, she
(58:15):
will carry on, or he will carryon, however they are.
And one on a path and one notcan be very frustrating and
painful and not always lost.
I Had my list and I went intothe happy hunting ground and I
noticed the women that Iattracted and the temptation was
(58:36):
off the scale the most wonderfulperfect plan B first reserve
women and it's like how could Ilet this woman go if I want The
perfect one for me, but maybethere's no such thing and I
should be with this one.
And I carried on changingsomething in myself or seeing in
myself, where am I stuck?
(58:57):
What do I need to unlearn?
What do I need to let go of?
How do I get myself inalignment?
And then I met her.
And it was very old fashionedcourting.
It took six months for the firstkiss.
It took, and I've been, we'vebeen together now 21 years.
It took, I think, 12 yearsbefore she asked me to marry
(59:19):
her.
We had no intention of marryingbecause we'd never seen any
marriages that really worked theway that we wanted it to.
But we've been married for aboutjust over 10 years now.
But it was all about me gettingmyself in alignment and changing
me.
inside, not let me be adifferent trick or act.
It's what's not true.
(59:41):
What needs to shift and get analignment and to set myself free
to have not just access to lovefor me to take it much further
and to get a little cosmic ishow much can I be?
And the more I can be, the moreaccess I have to energy, to
(01:00:02):
life, to God, to whatever youwant to call it.
The more access I have to lifeand to love.
And I feel this already with youis since I met you to now, the
way that you've just settled andlanded and the way that you are
speaking, there's just a calm,loving presence.
James Ainsworth (01:00:22):
Feel that.
I can feel the, yeah.
It's a, the, it was the relaxed,calm, or even looking at my
picture, I can see it.
It's a small screen in thecorner.
Just the body posture is, theshoulders are down.
I'm upright.
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (01:00:39):
And your lips almost want to grin or smile,
but you're holding it back,which just, which shows
personality and life.
That's charming.
That's intriguing.
That's playtime.
That's just love beaming.
How does your child feel?
James Ainsworth (01:00:56):
He feels safe and secure, he feels happy, he
feels, he's playing, he feelslike I can see him playing with
a ball, running around, as achild does.
Kenny De Cruz (01:01:06):
That is success.
There's no fear, there's nosurvival.
What does your protector thinkto everything right now?
James Ainsworth (01:01:15):
He's happy, he's quiet, he's And behind him,
he's at the back, but not, he'snot forgotten.
He's very much, he's doing, itfeels as though he's doing what
he can do.
And watch with a smile on hisface.
Kenny De Cruz (01:01:33):
Wonderful.
I feel that we've done the doingand it's job done.
Yeah.
Unless there's anything else youwant to say or ask?
James Ainsworth (01:01:42):
No.
For me it feels the right point.
Kenny De Cruz (01:01:47):
Great.
So Do you want to go and kickthat bucket or whatever and come
back and I'll speak with James?
James Ainsworth (01:01:52):
Yeah.
Okay.
Kenny De Cruz (01:01:54):
Cool.
Yeah,
James Ainsworth (01:01:57):
that feels good.
That feels
Kenny De Cruz (01:02:00):
I'd rather the practical and living it than the
theory and talking about it orselling it.
And here we are, and this feelsfucking wonderful.
James Ainsworth (01:02:11):
That's it.
I think sometimes you can listento podcasts and they give all
the words and stuff, but thenthere's nothing But people can
actually do or take awaysometimes from podcasts.
So I feel as though this is justright.
And I feel as though it'd begood to do sessions with other
people similar to this so thatthey can witness there and then
(01:02:34):
the impact that people can have.
Kenny De Cruz (01:02:37):
Absolutely.
Totally.
I remember that it's LawrenceJohn who put us in contact from
the mankind project.
James Ainsworth (01:02:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (01:02:47):
And I remember I did, I've been holding men's
groups for, I've been saying 25years for a few years.
So it's probably more than 25years because I'm not very good
at counting.
And then in 2005, I did the newwarrior training adventure.
(01:03:10):
Because more than anything, Iwanted to check that I'm not
some megalomaniac blagger.
And it's all about me and mypower and that the work that I'm
doing with men is in alignment.
I went and did it, but the big,the first freak out was that in
order to get to the site, whichwas just, I think it begins with
(01:03:34):
a K, it's up the road from youand it's a scout place or
something.
Kebbleston.
Kebbleston.
That's where I did it.
James Ainsworth (01:03:40):
Kebbleston, yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (01:03:42):
Kibblestone.
James Ainsworth (01:03:43):
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (01:03:44):
I remember that on the way there, we were near
Eccleshaw.
We didn't go past it, but I sawthe signs and that gave me the
heebie jeebies.
And then we literally drove pasta house on where it begins with
a W and it's a roundabout andthere's a post office.
(01:04:05):
And that was where I lived for ashort time between refugee camps
and had the most horrendous timeof my life.
So before even getting toKibblestone, I was triggered by
refugee camp, I was triggered bytrauma, I was triggered by so
many things that fucked me up.
And I got to the site, a rawgibbering wreck, before anything
(01:04:27):
even started.
So it's great that, that broughtus together, and here we are.
James Ainsworth (01:04:35):
Yeah, I did the warrior, new warrior training in
2022, and I think it wasNovember 2022.
And I need to go back andactually help by assisting other
people.
I'd love to do that next year,possibly.
Cool.
Talkable.
Yeah.
Kenny De Cruz (01:04:52):
So what would you like to know, or do, or talk
about before we end this podcastepisode?
And thank you so much for havingme on as a guest.
James Ainsworth (01:05:03):
Absolute pleasure.
So let's finish off by justtelling people what, actually,
what you do.
What do you do?
Kenny De Cruz (01:05:10):
I am strangely an agony uncle, so men write in
with their problems to theeyepaper and every Monday
there's a question and answeronline.
Every Tuesday, usually I'm onpage 35.
I've been holding men's groupsfor, I've been holding mixed
groups for 28, 29 years, men'sgroups, probably 26, 27, 25.
(01:05:36):
I don't know.
I started holding men's groupsbecause I was away from the UK
for five years.
I moved to Fiji where I did workin development.
I sat with the elders invillages and islands.
I worked with Mother Teresa inCalcutta with dying men.
I had an actual health centre inSydney.
(01:05:56):
It's then that I started holdingmen's groups, travelled the
world, had lots of adventures,came back to the UK and my
friends.
Turned into fuckwits.
So I got them in the room, about16 of them, I think it was.
And I basically said, you usedto be my best friends.
Now you're a bunch of fuckwitsbecause you're distracted by
(01:06:17):
drink, drugs, sex, power, money,love, addiction, God knows
what's going on, but I need tobe met at some depth.
I don't know what a men's groupis, but we're starting one now.
You're all in it and I'll stillcome raving, but I need more.
And that's how it all started.
And then people heard about itand people heard about it.
I took it out of my lounge.
(01:06:38):
I got ground rules together andeverything.
And it's just grown and grownover the years.
So it's been many years thatI've been holding live.
open groups and closed groups inLondon.
And then I started with what doyou call them, online groups.
And just before the UK went onlockdown I was in a West End
(01:07:00):
show, my friends girlfriend, nowwife, was the star of this
amazing musical.
So we watched that, my wife,some friends.
On the way back, I got a textfrom the guy who did, who filmed
and organized my onlinetraining, Adrian.
Was it's his partner and I'vegot an online training to train
people how to communicate withmen and hold men's groups and
(01:07:23):
use various tools.
So it was his partner andanother guy texted me saying
I've got the symptoms.
You might have COVID isolate.
So I isolated, I was working onzoom third floor flat in London,
working on zoom day and night.
And I noticed that I keptlooking out of the window and
(01:07:44):
expecting to see the military.
And I noticed that I keptlistening and it's like I was
listening, when you hear thefridge go off and you realize
it, I was listening for thegunfire to come back because I
thought the silence was betweengunfire and I was having strange
feelings in my body.
(01:08:04):
And then I realized that I wastriggered back to when I was in
Africa, when my family were onthe death list with Idi Amin.
And there was curfew and therewas a lot of military.
on street corners, peopleweren't allowed to stop and talk
to each other.
And we lived near Idi Amin, andthere was a lot of gunfire.
And we had to go into hiding, wehad death threats.
(01:08:26):
So I was triggered back to then,the day we went on lockdown, I
started online groups.
And they've been on every dayever since.
And The thinking behind that,because a lot of my friends and
clients have been to boardingschool or detention or locked in
their room or whatever thetrauma was, and I thought people
(01:08:49):
are going to be triggered.
And if men can speak things out,they're not going to lash out on
other people or lashing onthemselves.
So people need to speak thingsout.
So either I Or people who I'vetrained hold these groups every
day online, just go tomensgroups.
co.
(01:09:09):
uk and people basically hangout, be heard and get real about
what's going on in life.
And it's brilliant.
So I've been holding thosegroups every day.
I just launched a training, I'lldo another one next year for men
and women who are leaders of menor therapists, coaches
(01:09:29):
organizational psychologists,whoever wants to learn the tools
and it's online and live.
So at 60, at the tender age of60, cue you saying, Oh my God,
you don't look 60.
James Ainsworth (01:09:44):
Okay, you didn't look 60, sorry.
Kenny De Cruz (01:09:46):
Thank you.
Now that I'm 60, it's clearlytime for me to just share my
tools.
Whether people want to holdgroups, or work with men, or
lead better lives, it's here aremy tools, take it all.
And that's NICE's my missionnow.
Yeah.
I've got a lot of clients.
Very powerful.
Go to London and it's just somuch fun because for so many
(01:10:07):
years I just held groups and Ididn't tell people my thinking
behind why this and why not thatand how, and whatever.
But now to be able to share mytoys with everyone, it's that I
get better company.
And the, it's exactly what yousaid earlier.
It's preparing for a better,caring, sharing world beyond the
(01:10:27):
separation and destruction thatI feel we are going through and
will continue to go through.
And things need to fall apartbefore they fall together.
Yeah.
I agree.
And we're in the fall apartstage and we can hold it
together with love.
With exactly what you did inthis last hour, this is how to
(01:10:50):
hold it together by beingpresent and connected and here
we are.
So
in a nutshell, that's parts of my story and
what I do.
And I, my, my public face.
is really quite shit because Idon't really do social media.
My profiles are probably crapbecause I'm just I love people.
(01:11:13):
I'm not really great with all ofthat, but what's my web address?
themanwhisperer.
co.
uk Yeah, probably.
And I'll get someone on thewhole social media stuff to tidy
it up at some stage.
I'll
James Ainsworth (01:11:26):
add the links to the the bio which is the
description of the podcast.
But yeah, thank you very much,Kenny.
And thank you very much for thecoaching session.
Kenny De Cruz (01:11:38):
My pleasure.
James Ainsworth (01:11:40):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Incredible.
So thank you very much.
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