Happiness is an Inside Job: How to Find Lasting Joy and Inner Peace

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What if the key to happiness isn’t found in external success, but within yourself? In this episode, we explore why happiness is an inside job and how shifting your mindset can help you find lasting joy, inner peace, and personal fulfillment.

You'll discover the two things you can truly control—your thoughts and actions—and how mastering them can reduce stress, increase confidence, and bring more meaning to your life. We discuss the power of presence and mindfulness, helping you break free from overthinking and live more in the moment. Plus, we share practical strategies to overcome social media overwhelm, stop doomscrolling, and protect your mental well-being.

Through real-life experiences and expert insights, we’ll also dive into how to identify your core values, why they shape your decisions, and how aligning with them can bring clarity and purpose. Whether you're feeling stuck, searching for more meaning, or just looking for ways to feel happier every day, this conversation will help you reframe your mindset and take back control of your happiness.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

✔️ The two things you can actually control in life (and why they matter)
✔️ How to respond vs. react to thoughts and emotions
✔️ The secret to finding joy and inner peace through mindfulness
✔️ Why social media is draining your happiness—and how to take back control
✔️ How to discover your core values and align them with your daily life
✔️ The difference between happiness and contentment—and why it matters

If you’re ready to stop searching for happiness in the wrong places and start cultivating it from within, this episode is for you! 🎧✨

About David James

Dave James helps business owners and professionals speak with authenticity, confidence, and presence. A former healthcare professional turned speaker, host, and coach, Dave’s approach focuses on helping people be seen and heard without turning them into stage robots.

As a professional speaker, Dave has delivered keynotes on authenticity, presence, and connection, including his talk “How to Be a Happy Human.” He also runs speaker coaching workshops and one-to-one coaching, helping clients refine their content, delivery, and confidence using his Brain-Page-Stage framework.

Dave’s background in healthcare, combined with his experience in stand-up comedy, gives him a unique perspective on presence, storytelling, and engaging audiences. He believes that great speaking is about human connection first, skills second.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
In this episode we divee deepinto two things you can truly
control, your mindset and youractions, and how mastering them
can transform your life.
We explore why happiness is aninside job, and how to break
free from the overwhelm ofsocial media.
And you will also learn how toidentify your core values and

(00:23):
use them to guide you to createmore joy, purpose and
authenticity.

Welcome to Man (00:28):
A Quest to Find Meaning, where we help men
navigate modern life, find theirtrue purpose, and redefine
manhood.
I'm your host, James, and eachweek, inspiring guests share
their journeys of overcomingfear Embracing vulnerability and
finding success.

(00:48):
From experts to everyday heroes.
Get practical advice andpowerful insights.
Struggling with career,relationships or personal
growth?
We've got you covered.
Join us on Man Quest to FindMeaning.
Now, let's dive in.
There are only two things thatwe can control.

(01:09):
How we respond to our thoughtsand our actions.
David, David, David, tell memore

David (01:18):
so when you, when you asked me to do a state for this,
I was like, Hmm, but what, whatwill I go with?
And over the last few years orlast 10 years of personal
development, a lot of what I hadto do was realize that there
were so many things which Icouldn't control, which were
influencing me and affecting me.
And I was taking them on boardand, and it was hard.

(01:38):
And there were, there were veryfew things that I could
ultimately control.
And so I.
When I started coaching when Istarted doing more of the life
coaching stuff before I got intothe speaker coaching I When,
okay, there's probably only twothings that we can realistically
control.
How you respond to yourthoughts, and respond being a
very clear and very deliberateword, because I spent so much

(01:59):
time in my life reacting to mythoughts, and even now they'll
catch me out.
And then what you choose to dowith that information.
So, there is a little caveat tothis, and I remember saying
that, I did it on a video, Ithink it was last year, and one
of my friends, Charlie, who hadADHD and autism, she turned
around and she went, ah, shesays, but with ADHD, she goes, I

(02:20):
can't do either of those things.
And so I flipped it a little bitand went The only two things we
can control, eventually, are howwe respond to our thoughts and
our actions.
Because sometimes there arethings which happen and we just,
we just don't know what's goingon.
And then we realise what's goingon and we're like, whoa, hang
on, put the brakes on and wecan, we can slow down a bit.
But I do tend to work very muchon the idea now that there's

(02:44):
only a couple of things that Ican truly control.
And when I let go of the otherstuff that I can't control, it
makes me so much happier.
But there is an overlap betweenthose two places for me.
There's a The circle of what Ican't control is absolutely
huge.
The circle of what I can is tinyand they, they overlap a little
bit.
And I call that, I call thatplace influence because even

(03:05):
though I can't control what'sgoing on in the rest of the
world, you know, I can't, Ican't control what's going on
in, in, in Gaza or the Ukraineor, or, or in the U S anywhere.
If I choose to do somethingwhich can help in that
direction, I can, I can have aninfluence, whether that is post
about it, whether that's talk toa friend about it, have a
conversation, whether that isdonate money to a cause, there

(03:26):
is an influence which I canhave.
But that true space of what Ican control is how I respond to
my thoughts and the actions thatI take.
You

James (03:37):
know what, we had a conversation about this last
time, didn't we?
Yes.
And Last night, actually, thisis good timing because last
night I caught myself, again,getting caught up in the whole,
uh, U.
S., the whole world thing, andit's so, it can be so
overwhelming, so I literallymade a pact with myself last

(04:00):
night that I'm going to Reignmyself back in.
I'm not going to scroll throughTikTok and social media and
allow myself to get caught itcaught up with all that stuff
going on all the shit becauseit's it's so overwhelming and it

(04:23):
makes you it makes it made mefeel powerless.
Yeah, but what it's kind of whatI've come to realize is that if
I turn it around and decide, youknow what, I'm not going to get
caught up in all that crap.
What I'm going to do is do whatI can to impact my own world.
So that could mean things like Imight post some videos on how

(04:44):
you can improve yourself.
I might go and do somemeditation.
I might allow myself to raise myvibration.
I might go and smile more and behappy.
When I walk around, look asthough, you know, who is this
guy?
Because that's the stuff I cancontrol.
Yeah.
And I can't control anythinggoing on in that world, because

(05:07):
it's just, it's not that Ihaven't got the power, it's more
that I'm giving my power away toit.

David (05:14):
Absolutely.
And, and I love that.
I love what you do in there.
It's that.
It's that, it's that intentionalchoice of, but, but we, I think
sometimes we get, well, I thinkoften, not sometimes, often we
get to that intentional choicewhen we, we, we're so far down
the rabbit hole it becomesreally uncomfortable.
And I, God, I stopped watching,I mean I used to watch BBC News
years ago, so.

(05:35):
Must be 15 years ago and Iremember just going, I'm not
going to watch this anymorebecause I'm waking up in the
morning and I'm feeling so badbecause the reason that we
continue to scroll, the reasonthat we click on these things,
we like a trauma, the phraserubbernecking as you drive down
one side of the motorway,there's an accident on the other
side, you are having a lookbecause that it's like a human

(05:58):
reaction.
It's like a psychology thing.
But what happens is that thepeople who want us to, you know,
the social media companies,marketeers, and I'm not
blanketing all marketeers withthis if anyone's watching, so
don't come after me later on,but people who are using
psychology to market know thesetricks.
They know what they need to doto keep you glued on it.

(06:18):
And I remember having aconversation with my youngest,
who's now 14, who got reallyfrustrated when he was on
YouTube.
He said, you keep showing methings which I didn't ask for.
And I said, that's It's that'sit's aim.
It's aim is to go.
Oh, you like that?
Well, let's give you a littlebit more of that.
And then it will occasionallythrow in something which is so

(06:38):
far left field or so far rightfield to see how you respond.
It will throw things in whichyou don't expect to see what
your reaction is to it is.
And then it will go.
I have learned something aboutyou now.
I know if I show you this thingover here, which you've not
asked to look at, but you watchit for a certain period of time,
then I know that I can.

(06:59):
I can do more of that.
And then there's thedemographic.
So the only way to do it, and Isaid, the only way to do it.
And, and for me, there's a,there's a really interesting
balance in all of this is thatwe, it comes down a lot to
individual responsibility.
That we, we have to make thatchoice as to what we control.
So again, back to how we respondto our thoughts and our actions.

(07:22):
But there is a biggerresponsibility in, in society in
general to stop doing things totry and distract us.
It's the, I, I stopped drinkingseven years ago, and I'm not,
I'm not saying that becausethere's a little halo above my
head and look how wonderful Iam.
But I still have a mate whoturns around and says, when are
you going to start drinkingagain?
And that is the equivalent ofwhat we have.
It's just people who want todisconnect from the, from the

(07:44):
emotions, the thoughts, thefeelings, and the psychology,
yet you've got someone behindthem who keeps putting it in
front of them, going, yeah, butwhat about this?
And what about this?
And what about this?
And we've only got a certainamount of energy just to go, no,
I'm not interested, before wejust go, yeah, alright, I'll
have a look at it then.
And then you're in that spiral,and that wormhole, and that
rabbit hole, and off it goes.
And, and it's the individualresponsibility piece is huge.

(08:05):
But we need to look wider thanthat.
We need to look wider at whatsociety does to to draw us back
in and we all want to be liked.
We all want to be part ofsomething.
We all want to be be seen andheard because that raises our
status.
And when we do somethingdifferent, we're not saying
we're not heard.
It lowers our status.
It's a fascinating thing to playwith.
It really is to sit and observeit and observe it from inside it

(08:30):
and go Thank you.
My god, I'm stuck in thismyself.
How do I get out of this?
It's, it's crazy stuff.

James (08:37):
Hmm.
There's a couple of thingsthere.
The first thing is, what I'vecome to do myself is, when I
find I've got an urge to look atsocial media, Or whatever it is
that I'm looking at kind ofreducing, I allow myself to go

(08:57):
into that feeling of wanting todo it and exploring around that.
Because quite often there comesa level of disconnection that
could be a sense of loneliness.
We shared a discussion aboutyesterday's podcast.
Um.

(09:17):
There could be a level ofanxiety, it could be fear, but
you're just wanting to know moreand more and more.
And it's exploring them emotionsso much so that if you keep
digging the more you dig, Thedeeper you go, the more you find
out.
And quite often, and I always,um, talk about this in a big,

(09:41):
big way.
Inner child healing.
And quite often it goes down tothat inner child that perhaps
got hurt at a very, very earlyage.
And it's wounded or there'strauma.
And as you said, we like thegood trauma, don't we?
But it's allowing ourselves toheal that trauma.
And then another couple ofthings was, um, the question is,

(10:04):
what can we do?
In order to counteract all thatrubbish coming in, so things
like finding people who inspireyou, who make you, uh, who you
admire, and joining, andwatching more of that, and also
you can, I think, I did itbefore, where you can, Hit

(10:26):
double some dots in the cornerand say I don't want that you
won't come again

David (10:32):
Yeah, absolutely.
And again, it's the individualresponsibility pieces is what
can you do to protect yourselffrom those things?
And and you're just going totouch on the other child stuff
I've got a very good friendBrooke who talks a lot about in
a child work and We all we allhave something in the past
somewhere and it doesn't have tobe a major trauma.
It can be All traumas repeatedover a period of time and we

(10:56):
respond, we always respond to itin different ways.
I know, um, Brené Brown talksabout comparative suffering,
that we will, we will besuffering with something and
then we'll see somebody who'ssuffering with something which
we believe is bigger and we'llgo, ah, well what we've got
going on isn't as important sowhy am I even worrying about it?
It's the, the, there's alwayssomebody worse off than me
theory.
Well, you know, at the end ofthe day you feel what you feel

(11:17):
and you should be allowed tofeel it.
But it's, it's reallyinteresting coming back to the,
how do you, how do you protectyourself from those things out
there?
And I think this, this is, thisis where there's a pendulum
swinging, this is where there'sa continuum.
Because we could just shutourselves off from anything
which we disagree with, wedislike, which causes us a, a,
you know, an emotional,psychological harm.

(11:39):
But I don't think that does usany favors.
I think we have to be verycareful with what we do.
I know there's people out therewho have totally differing
experiences and viewpoints tome.
And my question is, what can Ilearn from them or what are they
seeing?
What are they seeing here, whichwhich I'm not?
And I, the Buddhists have anamazing concept of concept of

(12:00):
emptiness, which is, you know,you have this thing and this
cup, this cup has nothing.
It's no emotion to it at all.
I mean, apart from the fact thatI look at it and it says, I'd
rather be in Birmingham.
So that makes me feel happy.
So I feel happiness when I lookat that.
There's a bit of tea in thebottom, you might be able to see
that.
That makes me happy.
But if I drink the tea, thatmight make me sad.
And the thing is, it doesn'tmake me do anything.

(12:21):
It's my response to it.
So having somebody who can lookat this thing from a different
perspective and give me adifferent view and be able to
have a civil conversation aroundthat.
is, is a beautiful thing.
One of the challenges I see isthat we're, we're pushed too
much in this dichotomousdirection.
And, you know, we, I don'twanna, I don't wanna go too, too

(12:43):
far down the rabbit hole of, of,of the lockdown and the
pandemic.
But that was a very good exampleof how it pitted two groups of
people against one another.
And, and it's never just abouttwo groups of people.
But you can protect yourself.
But you also have to let thosethings in so you can have an
appreciation and widen thatcircle of your knowledge.

(13:03):
But what's really interesting,and you talked about, you know,
here's this thing, but what'sunderneath it?
Anger was a huge thing for meover the years.
And, and when, when I look atanger and what it is, I realized
that it probably wasn't anger,it was frustration or sadness or
not being seen or not beingheard.
All, all of those things whichkind of go down underneath it.
And those days where maybeyou're reacting in a, in a

(13:27):
negative way to something whichis going on in the world because
we can shut out the news, we canshut out social media, we can
shut out all those people whojust, who we just don't want to,
don't want to engage with.
But there will be a point wheresomething absolutely normal will
happen and we'll just, we'lljust lose it or something will
go on.
And the digging goes on tounderstand, well, what's led to

(13:48):
that point?
I know, I know being tired orbeing hungry or, or not being
productive.
I know all these things whichcan be factors so that I have a
much smaller ability to respondto what's going on around me and
it goes from response toreaction.
And that's where the curiositycomes in is, well, okay, what,
what's gone on for me, which Icould have changed or I can't

(14:11):
change it, but what can I donext time?

James (14:13):
Yeah, nice.
I like that.
So Dave, tell us about yourself.
Who are, who is Dave James?
Dave James.
Dave.

David (14:22):
There we go.
The annoying thing is, I wassaying to a friend about this
the other day, I've got, I'vegot a thing on there about what
I do, that's a banner I take outto events, and I've changed my
LinkedIn profile since.
It's like, oh my god, why did Ido that?
So about me, so I am, I'm dad ofthree.
I'm currently separated,currently going through a
divorce, which is its whole teston reaction and response.

(14:46):
I, from Birmingham originally,live now in Bromscove in
Worcestershire, which is about12, 13 miles outside.
I've had a fairly interestingcareer path.
I started off, started offgetting kicked out of school at
16.
I was a computer programmer fora while.
I got very, very heavily intothe computing world.

(15:07):
I was a bit of a geek, bit of anerd, still am in many ways.
And then when I Failed a numberof computing courses.
I left home and I got a jobworking in a nursing home.
So I got a job working, wipingpeople's bums for a living.
And it was one of the best jobsever.
Because you got to learn aboutpeople.
You got to learn about how to,as a, then in my early 20s, I
had to interact with people in adifferent way.

(15:31):
Move away from that.
Oh, it's Friday and Saturdaynight.
I'm going out for a few drinks,too Well, actually I might be
working a shift on a Friday orSaturday night So it changed
that whole whole kind of thingfor me I then moved into nursing
because I realized I needed moreresponsibility Eventually
working in A& E for three years,which is where where I met my ex
and we started that family Andthen, we moved back to the

(15:52):
Midlands, that was in Oxford,moved back to the Midlands and
retrained as a podiatrist, as afoot and leg specialist, and
that's where I've spent the bulkof my healthcare career, is as a
foot and leg specialist.
And, picked up a masters degree,ran my own business, worked for
the NHS as a manager, taughtstudents, started a charity, all
this kind of, you know, the coolstuff which, which you get up
to, particularly when you getbored easily and you have to

(16:12):
have something in your life todistract you.
And then 2018, I, I decided thatI didn't want to be in that
podiatry business anymore, and,and I sold it.
I, I sold it to, to a colleaguewho, who was a student of mine,
and stepped away from it andmoved into coaching.
And I have been coaching since,and that coaching has shifted
from a business and marketingfor health care professionals,

(16:36):
because that's what I knew,growing, uh, you know, a five
figure business from, fromnothing through to, to those
five figures over eight yearsand then selling it, which is
unusual in the, in the podiatryworld to sell a business.
And then during lockdown, peoplewere going, my life's a bit
crap.
Can you, can we talk about it?
It's like, yeah.
And then realize that I wasgoing through that whole journey
with separation.
I was looking more at me.

(16:57):
I was more, more of a lifecoach.
And then because speaking hasbeen such a big thing for me in
terms of my personal growth anddevelopment and also lead
generation and business.
I realized how much I enjoyedspeaking, so I threw myself into
speaking a lot more a couple ofyears ago.
And then went, why am I doinglife coaching?
Why am I getting geeky onspeaking?

(17:17):
Why am I speaking?
Why don't I, why don't I justbring it all together?
And then decided I was going tocoach business owners and
leaders around speaking, as wellas hosting events, as well as
speaking, and a bit of stand upcomedy on the side.
So, so the career's been a bitof a, bit of an interesting one.
Um, But the, I suppose that thebiggest story for me is that the
underlying bit, this is, this isthe bit which people don't

(17:39):
generally talk about becauseit's vulnerable and they don't
like to be seen in anythingother than than perfect and
wonderful, which obviously I am,was that I was in.
Yeah, I mean, look at me andyou.
Well, I quite, quite often say,and I do this, I do this a lot
at, even at gigs, I say, I say,you can't polish this, but you
can roll it in glitter, but itwill cost you extra.
And when I was in hospital as achild, I wa I had spina bifida

(18:03):
in a club foot and that.
You, you in many waysunderestimate that, that being
in hospital as a, as a child isa big thing.
And my experience in hospital asa child was, was okay.
There was one moment where, aswas on the children's hospital
ward in Birmingham, they didbring in the darex one day, but
that was, you know, when you aresort of five, five years old,

(18:23):
that's quite scary.
But the scariest thing is theybrought members in of the, of
the Birmingham Sydney footballteam, which is far scarier to be
honest than Darex and.
So I was in hospital as a kid.
That gave me, with the spinabifida, that gave me various,
various issues.
I, back issues, ulcerated myfoot at, at, at 20, which is how
I eventually ended up inpodiatry, because it was, it was

(18:44):
me trying to find out more.
And then at, at, when I was 14,I had a friend at school who was
abducted and murdered, a youngman by the name of Stuart Goff.
And my way of expressing how,how I wanted to communicate with
the world was via anger.
That was the only way in which Icommunicate.
Everything was about anger.
And that went with me right theway through.

(19:05):
Right the way through my, mylife until 2015 when, when my,
my, my ex turned around to meand said, right, get out of the
house, I've had, I've had enoughof this.
And it was that, it was thatpivotal moment where you realize
you're about to lose everythingand you have to do something,
because I thought it'd been okayup until that point.
It was like, yes, anger, break afew things, no one gets hurt
physically, psychologicallywe're all a bit broken, kids see

(19:27):
this stuff, but we, we all, weall hug afterwards and
everything's okay.
And, and that was the momentwhere I realized that no, it
wasn't.
And I had to do something aboutit.
And that was the beginning of mybig grand personal development
journey where I, you know, you,you, you buy books and you start
reading them and you listen topodcasts and you start
meditating and all of the stuffwhich goes with it.

(19:48):
And it, and it opened up a wholenew, it opened up a whole new
world to me, and it, and it thenchanged over those, the three
years after that, it changed thecourse of what I was doing
within my career, and eventuallyselling the, the podiatry
practice.
And, and now, as much as I tryand get away from men's mental
health stuff, it still creeps upon me, and people come to me and
go, Dave, can you come and talkabout anger to someone or can

(20:10):
you, can you come and talk aboutmen's mental health because you,
you've got the experience on it.
I'm like, yeah, okay, then I cancome and do that.
So, so it's been interesting.
It's been an interestingjourney.
There's, there's definitely thetwo strands of the, you know,
the professional side and, andthe strands of the personal
side.
And, and now with, with thespeaking, they, they dovetail.
I get to stand up and talkabout, talk about the personal

(20:31):
stuff.
I get to.
I get to show people that sidewhich which maybe a lot of
people don't and and for me thatthat's essential because it all
blends in it all fits together.
And that was a really longmonologue on that one as well so
that's probably ruined yoursocial media clips.

James (20:47):
That's alright.
So, when we were discussing thislast week, we were, we were
deciding on having the topic ofhappiness and joy, because
that's what you also speakabout.
Now, how, in your, where in yourlife has happiness and joy

(21:08):
really influenced who you are?

David (21:12):
You see, that's a really good question, and I'll, so, so
anger for me is a verycomfortable place.
Because I spent so much timebeing angry and frustrated that
I can slip into that very, very,very easily.
And it's like a coat.
You put it on, it's like, yeah,this is really comfortable, it
fits, it's always good.
And when I did a clowningcourse, a clowning workshop,

(21:35):
five days last year, and we weretalking about the expression of
joy and happiness.
And Dan, who runs the course,he'll say, right, come out, be
happy! And you're like, yeah,I'm happy! Woo! And he went, no,
I'm not feeling it.
He said, how about anger?
And I went, Oh, I can do anger.
And I did anger and he looked atme and he went, don't do that
again.
I was like, okay, because it'ssuch a comfortable place.

(21:55):
And I, and know as I, as I grewup, I was, I talked a lot with,
with therapists about this,about, you know, expressions
from other people to me about,you know.
Saying you've done really,really well, or you've done
really badly.
Everything was very kind oftight and very close.
There was no kind of, you know,overtly over the top praise.

(22:17):
And there was no real overtcriticism.
And I think it's because thepeople around me were so scared
that I might flip into anger.
And, and what do you do?
You know, you wrap someone incotton wool and you look after
them and make sure they're okay.
So for me, the expression of joyis, is a really, is a really
interesting one.
And I still find it hard tothink about how I would describe

(22:39):
that, but probably for me itcomes down to, it comes down to
comedy, so it comes down tolaughter, and it comes down to
being a bit maverick and a bitmischievous, and it comes down
to fun, and fun is a huge valuefor me.
If I'm not having fun doingsomething, If I go to a
conference or I go to a workshopand I've had my fill of what I

(23:01):
need, I am probably thecheekiest, most disruptive
person in the room.
But I'm also learning in thebackground.
And people will challenge me andgo, are you actually listening?
Oh yeah, you've just talkedabout this, this and this.
And I go, oh.
So for me, the, the It's lessabout joy and extreme amounts of
joy and it's more about the fun.
Everything for me has to be fun.

(23:23):
When you said to me, will I comeon this?
Yeah, because it's going to befun.
We're going to have aconversation which is fun.
And I don't have to put a maskon and pretend to be someone
else.
I've talked openly about anger.
I've talked on stage about it anumber of times.
I share that story with someone.
My, if I have skeletons in mycloset, my closet doors open,

(23:44):
everyone can see it.
So, It can't hurt me in the waythat it used to.
So now I, I have fun withthings.
And it doesn't mean that thingsdon't catch me out occasionally,
because, because they do big,big time.
But for me, that expression of,of joy is, is probably more for
me around fun.

James (24:03):
And it's, it's um, There's something that I'm
trying to incorporate more intomy life, because I know that
when I'm in, when I'm havingfun, I'm in the flow.
You're not, you're not worriedabout what happened in the past.
You're not worried about what'sgoing to happen, um, 10 minutes
time or five minutes time.
You are literally in that momentand you are having so much fun.

(24:26):
Like I suppose we first met atthe PSA.
I think it was about two yearsago.
Was that right?
Two years?
I think it was two years ago.

David (24:36):
It was, uh, yeah, it was the, the SBS conference in
Birmingham.
Um, at the, at the voco.
This is where my, my memorycomes out.
And you were doing speakerfactor?

James (24:45):
Yeah, I was, I was on stage.
I was literally about to do afive minutes speech and I gone,
I got up, started to speak afirst sentence, literally
forgot.
Everything.
And then, okay, and then I heardthe audience saying, Come on,
James! Come on, James! So, so Istarted again, and again, I

(25:06):
literally forgot everything.
But in that moment, I decidedto, I had two choices.
I either ran off stage Or, I'djust stay and, you know, kind of
fight.
And I stayed and fought, and Ijust allowed it, whatever to
come out, comes out.
I must admit, I swore threetimes.

(25:26):
But, what I did have, was I didhave fun.
I wasn't worried about whatpeople thought.
I wasn't worried about what'sgoing to be said after.
You know, I was just allowing itto come out.
And, you know, quite often weget caught up either in the
past, Or in the future, but whenwe're having fun in the moment,

(25:50):
life, life, I think becomes easybecause you know what you need
to do because you're having fun.

David (26:00):
Absolutely.
And I, and I remember that.
I remember when you did that.
And I, I remember the, Iremember seeing your face and,
and, and it was very obvious theprocess you were going through.
And, and I, and I love the, the,that you chose just to go,
right, I'm here.
Let, let, let's do it.
And, and the support from theaudience.
And.
I'm trying to think, who won?
I know, I know who won.

(26:21):
I had to think about who wonbecause I still remember you in
many ways more than them.
Because of how you showed upand, um, and it was taking away
that, that prepared bit and itwas going, right, here I am.
And it, it was beautiful towatch.
It was, and the word I would putto it is it was present.
Presence for me is, is, is sucha big thing.
I've learned that throughmindfulness and meditation and

(26:44):
the, the speaker coaching work,the work of Patsy Rodenberg,
where she talks about presence,about being in this moment and
intentionally doing things from,from um, Now that there's
nothing else going on at themoment other than this
conversation that that's that'sthe important thing for me.
Yes, I know that there's stillgoing stuff going on in the
world.
I'm sure my bank account islower than it than it needs to

(27:05):
be.
I might will have an email whichis saying either something which
is useful or not.
But this this is is the space tobe because when when you when
you get present, it brings youback to that space.
You can control.
You can control what's going onin this moment.
And I.
I delivered last night men's wedo we do a thing called

(27:26):
meditation, which is men'smeditation and mindfulness.
We started the group two and ahalf, almost two and a half
years ago now.
And it's been, it's beenamazing.
And I still chuckle that theyput me at the front of the room
and let me, let me whittle onwhile people's eyes are closed
about, you know, take a deepbreath in and all this, all this
kind of stuff and make it myown, but it's.
That ability to, to almost takewhat, what's unconsciously going

(27:50):
on for people and, you know,take it from under the table and
put it out and say, this, thisis what we, we can all see this.
Why are we hiding this and nottalking about it?
It brings you back to the momentin, in such a powerful way.
And one of the biggest ways, andI, I didn't realize this until I
tried it, one of the biggestways to be present is to do
comedy, do stand up comedy.
Because you are very acutelyaware of whether you are funny

(28:12):
or not in that moment.
Because the audience tell you.
You, and, and I, I did our standup comedy, our stand up comedy
hosting last Friday as we recordthis.
And I, I died on stage quite alot.
And I told them, I said, I'vedied on stage tonight.
And they laugh.
And it's because it's, it'strue.
Truth is funny.
You, and that's a Beth, BethSherman quote.

(28:34):
She's, she's, she is the personwho, who I go to and talk about
comedy a lot.
And.
You get present in that momentand when you're present in that
moment You kind of realize thatthat things can't hurt you in
the same way that you think theycan all the stuff which I mean
Okay, there are some thingswhich will hurt you very much in
the present like buses andfirearms But a lot of the stuff

(28:58):
which we have to deal with goeson in the six inches between the
ears So being being present ishuge being in that moment and
you did that you did that at thePSA It was beautiful to watch
there was just that yes I don'tknow what's going to go on now,
and it then wasn't about thecompetition, it was about you.
And it was beautiful to watch,it was memorable.

James (29:18):
With regards to presents to do with happiness, how would
you define true happiness?
Oh,

David (29:28):
it's a lie.
No, that's the wrong answer.
So I, I, I have a, I have akeynote called how to be a happy
human.
Um, I thought I put it to bedlast year and, and, and did it a
couple of times.
I thought that, that won't comeout.
I'll go and talk about otherthings.
And then somebody asked me inMarch to go to a PSA event and
do how to be a happy human.
I was like, you're right.
I'll, I'll pull how to be ahappy human back out.

(29:48):
And I, about two thirds of theway in, I say to people that
I've lied to them.
I've said, I've, I've, I'vehooked you in with a beautiful
title.
How to be a happy human.
It's, it's alliterative.
It's beautiful.
It flows.
It, oh, it gives you something.
And, and most people, if yousaid to them, what do you want
from life?
They go, I want to be happy.
And I say, it's, it's got, it'sgot very little to do with
happiness.
Happiness is, is a, an emotionlike joy or sadness or anger or

(30:10):
frustration.
It is a, an emotion, which we,we have a very d different
relationship with.
When, when happiness comesalong, we, we try and hold onto
it as tight as we can becauseyou never want it to go.
But if we, if we're angry orfrustrated, we'll we'll push
that away as quickly aspossible.
And the reality is it, it comesand goes quite a lot.
For me, it's more aboutcontentment.
And it's about the recognitionof the states that you're in

(30:32):
emotionally.
Are you angry?
Yes, okay.
Let's label it as anger.
And then what are we going to dowith that?
Are we going to let it?
Are we going to let it?
If anger's in the back seat, arewe going to let it nudge us out
of the way, jump in the car anddrive it?
Same with happiness, are we, arewe going to do the same?
Or is it about contentment andabout recognition of those

(30:52):
states?
And going, while I'm in thisstate where I feel really happy,
I'm going to enjoy it, but I'mnot going to hold onto it so
tight and strive for it to nevergo away, that I miss being happy
to hold onto happiness.
It's, it's, it's a reallyinteresting, and I, and I've
I've played around with this,I've thought about it, and for

(31:15):
me it comes back to contentment.
Happiness is a beautiful thing.
But then, I think anger is abeautiful thing.
I think joy is a beautifulthing, I think sadness is a
beautiful thing.
Because it's about, for me it'sabout creating a space which is
available for you to experienceall of the beautiful stuff which
goes on in life.
Because if we were happy all thetime, at some point we'd get

(31:35):
bored.
At some point we have to havesome tension, we have to have
some stress.
Muscles don't grow unless you goto the gym and do exercise.
My abdomen doesn't grow unless Igo to the shop and buy chocolate
and eat it.
There has to be some tension tochange that state.
And that's where happiness,sadness, joy, anger, all of

(31:55):
those things have to be inthere.
But to have a healthy space inwhich we can experience those,
and not feel judged by others orby ourselves, that for me is,
that for me is the game.
And that's and it's really hardto do that.
It's really hard, because somedays that space is really,
really big, and other days it'steeny tiny.
And you can only fit one emotionin for a very brief moment.

(32:17):
It's a it's a really interestinggame to play.
And I and I and I don't know therules, and I don't even know
whether there is a prize at theend.

James (32:25):
Nicely put, nicely put.
Um, I feel as though you canit's quite easy to shift.
I find moving from say, forexample, I'm feeling angry, but
you acknowledge that anger,allow yourself to feel it.
I'm able then to shift to how doI want to feel?

(32:45):
And for me, happiness comes downto that idea that not to follow
what society wants us to do.
Or less, that's what makes youhappy.
If that makes you happy, that isgreat.
Do that.
If you don't find following whatsociety wants you to do makes

(33:08):
you happy, then do somethingthat does make you happy.
Because, um, I feel as thoughwith, um, happiness and joy,
with a sense that it's aboutfollowing, following a purpose,
following a reason, a reason tolive.
Contentment.

(33:29):
Usually, and it's, and it's,it's not one of these things
where it's going to be easy tofollow.
Because if it was easy tofollow, everybody would be doing
it.
And we'd be bored, as you said,because it's just, it's just too
easy.
We, as human beings, like a goodchallenge.

(33:50):
We like a good, um, as we said,we could look like a good, a
good trauma.
Um, so it's, it's about us goingthrough this, this journey, this
path of self discovery andDiscovering who, who, who we,
who are we meant to be, who arewe, what at the very core can we

(34:12):
teach people that can reallyhelp them to grow and to be, and
that's what you do with yourmental health and your, um, your
happy place, your happy talksand things like that.
Yeah, it's given

David (34:25):
people an opportunity to look at things differently and
And that realization that we'rein a system which we, we
probably can't get out ofeasily.
And we, we have, we have to, wehave to adapt to that.
And we, I talk, I talk withclients about, about values,
particularly around values whenit comes to speaking.
It's like, who are you?

(34:46):
Who are you at your core?
What are your behaviors?
Because when you go up on stage,you want to express that.
So that you, you connect withyour audience and it's the
authenticity piece that ifyou're your authentic self,
which is a whole otherdiscussion on its own, then then
people will connect with youmore and you can have a greater
impact on people.
But to realize that we're, we'rein a system which we, which will

(35:09):
influence us either consciouslyor unconsciously, and
particularly around things like,you know, if we look at
capitalism as a system,capitalism is, is, is amazing,
and it's also awful at the sametime, because it means that
people change their focus andtheir purpose, not to experience
everything that life has tooffer, to experience all of
those emotions, to have amazingconnections, and, and to, to

(35:29):
live a fulfilled life, whatevera fulfilled life is, is to you.
What happens instead is we weend up going in the pursuit of
money because what money does isit gives us security and safety
and we know that money is alsorelated to status and and if
we've got a lower status, thatmeans that we were rejected were
rejected by the Trump.
There's a whole host of thingswhich which go on and so.

(35:53):
It's trying to find a way abouthow, how do we find that meaning
and purpose and that's thatanswer that big question.
Why are we here?
What is the meaning of life?
And I, and I quite often, mygirlfriend gets, gets the brunt
of this.
She, she'll quite often have megoing into a place where I get
really down about it.
And I, and I talked to a lot ofpeople who, you know, a lot of

(36:14):
friends and they're like, yeah,we talk about money and a
company which has done half abillion in turnover and revenue.
And my question simply is.
To what end?
Most people that I come acrossare in industries where the aim
is to make money.
Why?
To make more money.
Why?
To make more money, to pay ourshareholders so people can buy

(36:36):
nice things.
Why?
What does that mean?
And There are less people inindustries which are truly
about, you know, earning a bitof money so that you can help
people.
Nursing, for example, medicine,all of those things.
They, the outcome of that isthat you improve the quality of
someone's life, coachingtherapy, all of those things.
And so for me, I get into thislittle funk about why are we

(36:58):
doing these things anyway?
And it's, and that's not, andthat's not a happy place for me
at all, but I think it really.
For me comes down to tounderstanding what what it is.
What what is it that gives youjoy and happiness and and also
realizing again back back tothis is that That can be, that
can generate happiness, or youcan, you can generate happiness,

(37:18):
or sadness, or frustrationtowards it, I can use that as a
weapon, I can use that as a wayto, to, you know, to put, put
water in my car, I can use it tofill it with tea and drink and
stay hydrated, everything hasmultiple uses.
And I can guarantee that thatsomething which we might think
is, is the most horrendous thingin the world.
There's, there's somebody elsein the world who's going, that's
a really good opportunity forme.

(37:40):
And it, and it's thatunderstanding that, that it,
that it's personal.
I get really geeky on, onscience fiction.
I, I could quite happily quoteto you lines from Bladerunner
because it, it's, it's one ofthe most beautiful things in, in
the world.
I, I get really geeky with Lego.
I, I, I love to do, you know, Iget on the PlayStation and have
fun, but then I'm quite happy tosit there with a nice cup of tea

(38:01):
and read a book.
And then, there's so many thingswhich, which give us joy.
The challenge is that there's somany people on social media who
are, who are telling us whatshould give us joy.
Or what should make us feel acertain thing.
And it's that realization thatactually that's just It's just
their opinion, man, to quote abit of the Big Lebowski.

(38:24):
And it's working out where wefit in all of that.
And that, again, for me, comesdown to presence.
What's important to me?
How do I feel?
And when I do my How To Be AHappy Human keynote, I talk
about five areas.
I talk about authenticity.
I talk about meaning andpurpose.
I talk about control and choice.
I talk about community andconnection.
And that's to others and toourselves because we We can't be

(38:44):
truly who we are in isolation.
Yes, we would all feel better ifwe went off and found a desert
island and sat on a rock andmeditated all day and drank
water from coconuts.
But we need to understand, wecan only understand who we are
in the reflection back fromother people.
And then the fifth one isphysiology and biology.
Which is, you know, how are welooking after our bodies?
Sleep, nutrition, and that's notmy expert area at all.

(39:07):
One area I don't talk about ismoney.
Because I have No particularinterest in it other than How do
I keep the lights on?
How do I you know have acomputer and a camera where I
can do these things other thanthat?
It it doesn't it doesn'texcitement the pursuit of money
is not something which excitesme And I also realise that,
because I've got enough money todo that, that there's an

(39:29):
inherent privilege in that aswell, which, which messes with
my head on many levels.
But it's, it's, it's reallyabout exploring what, what it is
for you, and then being okaywith that and then expressing
that.

James (39:42):
You mentioned earlier about What does it mean?
And you're talking about peopleearning lots and lots of money.
That's a, that's a deepquestion.
That's quite a very, and thatcan send you down a massive
rabbit hole, I think.
And it's, it's, I think a lot ofwhat it means when it comes to

(40:03):
things like building capitalism,like building business, money,
money, money, money, comes downto, as you said, society.
But also it's the idea that,yeah, it's security and safety.
But is it really security andsafety, or does it look like it

(40:23):
on the surface?
And another thing you mentioned,values.
So, how can anybody herelistening Discover their values.

David (40:35):
Oh, that's a really good question.
What I do want to touch on, youmight have to ask me that
question in a moment, is thatidea of safety.
So I talked to clients in thepast about the difference
between safety and safeness.
And I think that money canprovide safety.
You earn money, that improvesyour status, you buy nice
things, you have a nice car, anice house, nice clothes.

(40:59):
All of those things.
But then what you do is you usethat money to then pay for ways
to protect your things and yourstatus from people taking that
away.
Secure, big house, securitysystems, God, whatever it is.
Whereas on the other hand,you've got safeness.
Safeness is this, this, I knowwho I am and I know that I can
walk into a room confident thatI am going to be okay.

(41:22):
The, the, actually the views ofother people.
I think the views of otherpeople always matter because
we're always judging and beingjudged and that's okay.
And we walk into spaces whichmaybe we're uncomfortable in.
We will, it will change us.
We will, our authenticity levelwill shift.
But when you've done that Thatwork when you've looked at who

(41:42):
you are, you come from a placeof safeness rather than safety,
and I think I think it's a it'sa very subtle shift, but it but
it's a it's a much.
It's a much nicer thing.
I think that comes with a numberof things.
I think comes with age, and itcomes with knowing who you are,
and it comes in realizing thatif there's less years ahead than
there are behind, then well, whyam I wasting my time trying to

(42:02):
conform to someone else?
Why don't I just go and swear atpeople a bit more and just and
just have more fun doing that?
But going back to that questionabout values, about how do you
find your values, there's somany ways of doing it.
We know people in the PSA who dobehavioral and personality
profiling and describing it thatway isn't giving an idea of the

(42:22):
true depth of it because thatstuff is amazing.
Then I do exercises withclients.
There's the very cheesy, verytypical, here's a list of words,
pick them out.
But what I also like to do is Ialso like to look at people's
lives and say, okay.
Let, let's draw a line from thebeginning of your life through
to where you are now.
And above the line, let's putexperiences which were positive,

(42:45):
things which stand out for youas being really highlights of
your life.
Under the line, put things whichwere less good.
The things which were maybetraumatic or frustrating.
And now, just write some words.
Just, just what, you know, whatcomes to mind.
And That will give you an ideaof the kind of words that you
use to describe yourexperiences, and there'll be

(43:06):
patterns which come out as well.
There'll be things which appearand you'll go, ah, that's
important to me.
And even down to that question,what's important to me?
I mean, I, I have, I have threevery simple values, which are,
well, they were love, learning,freedom, and fun, and then
realized that learning was a bitof a trap, and I was just trying
to prove that I wasn't dim as a,as a, as a, uh, at school.

(43:27):
So for me, there is love,however that's expressed.
There is freedom.
And fun and fairness.
In fact, love comes into itless.
Now, maybe love is expressed indifferent ways, but fairness.
Fairness is a huge thing for me.
I, I get really twitchy when Isee things which aren't fair.
I get really twitchy when I'mnot getting the freedoms that I

(43:48):
want.
And if I'm not having fun, just,yeah, we, we, we are not, we're
not gonna play.
I'm, I'm gonna be disruptive.
I'm gonna be a pain in the asrsand I'm gonna, I'm, you're gonna
wanna put me in the corner orthrow me out.
But when you start to explorethose values more, you will try
a value on.
And he'll go, yeah, okay, thisseems quite right.
But then you might find out thatit doesn't fit.

(44:09):
So when, when I was lookingpreviously and, and learning
was, was a big one for me.
It wasn't just about what couldI learn, it was about how can I
work with other people to helpthem grow and develop.
It was, it was, it wasdevelopment and education and
learning, not just for me, but,but for other people.
And how I expressed that the.
Freedom for me is, is in manyways is about choice, being,

(44:30):
choosing to be able to do thison a Thursday morning.
You know, choosing to be able toget up and go to the gym in the
morning.
All of those things which, whichfitted with my values, but have
taken time to get to that point.
I mean, values is, is somethingyou can find out quite quickly,
but to truly test them andretest them and, and see if
they're right, requires you toactually, you know, put the

(44:51):
jacket on and wear it for awhile and see what, see what
happens.

James (44:55):
My values are freedom, love, growth, um, wisdom, and
there's one more, I can't thinkof it.

David (45:05):
But yeah, it's um The fifth one isn't memory, is it?
That would be a

James (45:11):
Ha ha ha ha! No, it's um, quite Because I do live by them.
I do live by, you know, freedom,like, freedom.
I want to build a business whereI can go and be where I, where I
want, when I want, and not haveto worry about, uh, money or
anything like that.
There's that, that's, that'sfreedom to me.

(45:32):
So I could, literally doing anonline business, you can be, I
could be in New Zealand.
Obviously the time difference,but it's, um, yeah, it's that,
there's that way of living.
And then for me, love is allabout allowing myself to love
myself, to, and then to kind ofproject that out to other

(45:54):
people.
And is it, is the idea of growthover the last 10 years, growth's
been one of the biggest things Ihave done.
I would, I'm, I've realized nowthat I'm never going to stop
growing.
Because with growth comesunderstanding who you are, it

(46:14):
allows you to become, to bebetter, to take responsibility
for your life, to take the stepsneeded to grow, and yeah, and
finally, the, the other one, um,I can't even remember where I
was.
Wisdom.
Wisdom.
Yeah, it's We live in a worldthat's probably in a lot of non

(46:38):
wisdom, but when you feel properwisdom, you're like in awe of
it.

David (46:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I love those.
I love those values.
And whether those valuesresonate with me or not is
irrelevant.
What resonates with me is the isthe freedom that you're taking
to go.
These are my values.
I'm going to live by them.
And it's okay for those valuesto change.
And I think this is this iswhere the there is a permission

(47:05):
which comes with all of thisthat to turn around.
I mean, I still remember beingbeing younger and people going,
Oh, you're a bit of a Bit of ageek, bit of a nerd, and it was,
it was something which wasconsidered bad.
Now, you look at it now,consider being a geek or being a
nerd is, I mean, I had a phraseon my computer for ages, which
is, geek shall inherit theearth.

(47:27):
Because it is, it is something,geeks and nerds express
themselves in, in ways which arejust.
just so beautiful to look at,you know, for me, it's cool that
I like Star Trek and I like StarWars.
It's cool that I like, you know,I'm a 51 year old man who, who
will quite happily play withLego, but it's also absolutely
okay to get exquisite joy andhappiness and contentment from

(47:50):
sitting on a Saturday afternoonin a coffee shop, reading a book
and it can be a fantasy book.
It could be whatever it is.
And, and, and it's.
In many ways, it's, it's findingjoy in, in the smallest
experiences.
Because we're so conditioned togo, well, it's more, more, more.
So, you know, company earns moremoney.
Well, we want to earn moremoney.

(48:10):
So we, we work harder to earnmore money.
So we can say that we've earnedthis much money.
Cool.
But what about that beautifulthing of saying, I, I can get
happiness and contentment from acup of coffee, sat in a coffee
shop.
Reading a book for an hour thatthat for me is it feels like
it's the ultimate happiness andfreedom To be able to take a

(48:32):
small thing and get joy from itNo, and and and it's I think
about this in terms of youadding adding sugar to to a cup
of tea Is that initially you'lladd one one sugar and you go?
This is nice But then a fewweeks later doing that it won't
be enough You'll have to add twoand you know, this is nice and
then a few and then three Andthere comes a point where you

(48:53):
have to keep increasing the, thedose, increasing that medicine,
and then, but being able toactually sit back and go, but
actually, what if I was to justfocus on this moment, and this
is the presence thing again is,well, what if I was, what if I
was to just, Look at this momentin time and instead of going all

(49:15):
on board or I don't know what todo Tap into different things and
this is where the mindfulnessand meditation stuff comes in
We're talking about it lastnight Talk about expanding your
your focus from from the breathto the body to the feeling of
the clothes on your skin becausehow many?
Times two people sit there andgo I can feel the clothes on my
skin Yeah, the blanket they'rewearing, maybe the eye mask
they're wearing, to thetemperature in the room, to the

(49:37):
sounds of other people in theroom, to the noises of the
traffic going by, to the flickerof the candles through their
eyelids.
All of these things where it's,instead of going outwards and
going, we need to have biggerand better things, but actually
going inwards and going, whatcan I feel in my experience now?
That, that, you know, thebreathing, the, if you ever do,
you know, meditation, you needto do a guided meditation and

(50:00):
you realise that, Quite often,the in breath and the out breath
are of different lengths.
And the gap between the inbreath and the out breath is a
bit, it's, it's like that momentas you drive along a road and
you go over a hump and you justfeel yourself, gravity,
gravity's gone, I feel like I'mfloating and then you come back
down again.
But you notice these things wheninstead of going out and going,
I need more stuff, I need moresugar, I need more cars, I need

(50:22):
more money, and going in andgoing, actually, what, what's
here?
What's in, what's in thismoment?
That, that for me, that, that,that gets me, that gets me
excited.
And, and to be honest, I lovethat, but at the same time, I
can't do that all the time.
Sometimes I do need to watchNetflix.
Sometimes I do need to, to goand, you know, do a bit of
retail therapy.
I do need to buy something and,or, or buy chocolate, whatever

(50:44):
it is.
But it's that ability to be ableto move between those different
states.
And that's where the presencecomes in as well, is going,
well, what do I need in thismoment?
Or what do I want in thismoment?
Or what should I do in thismoment?
It's, it's fascinating and fun.
And as you can tell, I get allgeeked out about it, which is
why I just monologue about itwhenever I get the chance.
But it's just cool stuff to workwith.

James (51:06):
Yeah, it's this, it's the idea that, with presence, and
the ability to slow down,literally, Because we live in
such a fast, fast paced worldthat we're always on the go, go,
go, go, go.
And there's this idea ofliterally just slow down.
You know, I catch myself quiteoften throughout the day.

(51:30):
And I'm just in my head, justlike going from one thing to
another thing to another thing.
And there's, there's noenjoyment.
There's no happiness or joy fromgoing from one thing to another
thing.
I feel like you're almost doingit.
You're doing it just through theendless pursuit of, um, doing.

(51:51):
And there's the, with presence,there comes this idea that, um,
Just the other day I was, um,working with inner beauty.
So I realized that I sometimesproject my beauty onto other
people.
I might see a beautiful womanand I'm projecting my own beauty
onto them.
So I bring my beauty back intomyself, allow myself to feel

(52:14):
that inner beauty.
And the other day, yesterday, Iwas walking and literally allow
myself to feel that inner beautyand allow myself to observe.
The nature around me.
And even just the other day, Iwas on the back of a fire
engine, and That was random.

(52:34):
I was on the back of a fire

David (52:36):
engine.

James (52:37):
I've done I'm 14 years into fire service.
That explains

David (52:41):
it.
I was gonna say, I've just nowgot this vision of a fireman
going, James, just get off theback of the wagon, I've told you
this before.

James (52:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, so, yeah, real life firemanSam.
So I was under the fire engine,and I just allowed myself to
observe going through a town.
Now, I wouldn't usually see atown as beautiful, but because I
was observing my own innerbeauty, I was allowed, I was

(53:09):
able to see, as we're travelingaround, the beauty of the built
up roads, the beauty of thehouses, the people walking, and
yeah, that's just through beingpresent in our own body, and
being able to really enjoy thatmoment.

David (53:30):
Oh, I lost your sound, then.
Can you hear me now?
Oh, sound, yeah.
Sound's gone, can't hear you.
Can you hear me?

James (53:38):
Uh,

David (53:38):
yeah, I can hear you.
Oh, there you go, you're backnow.
You're back now.

James (53:40):
It's working.
Um, my internet's unstable, holdon.
I can pull, I can take out allthis, this bit.
Not an issue.
Uh, hold on.
Oh, my internet's back.
It's alright.

David (53:55):
There you go.
It's on in a moment.

James (53:58):
It's all good.
Can you hear me now?

David (54:00):
Yep, can hear you now.

James (54:01):
Okay.
So Yeah, there's just this senseof presence.
And Being present in that momentthat gave me that joy and that
beauty and it was a profoundexperience because I've never
really had that before.

David (54:22):
Yeah, it's beautiful, isn't it?
It's beautiful and it's and Iknow when I when I teach the
guys mindfulness of meditation Italk about the breath and I saw
about the breath the fact thatthe breath is there all the time
We just don't notice it.
It's it's doing its autonomicnervous system thing going along
keeping us alive But if you everneed to anchor yourself on
something that the breath isthere and I have lots of

(54:44):
conversations of people wherethey Go, I can't meditate.
I don't know how to do that Ican't calm me brain down and
it's like well the aim is not tocalm your brain down The aim is
to recognize your brain Andactually, the shortest
meditation is an in breath, ahold, an out breath, a hold.
That, that, that's a meditation.
But being able to, to noticethings around you and have
questions.
And my girlfriend's really,really curious.

(55:05):
She's far more curious than Iam.
I don't ask enough questions andgo deeper on levels.
She is like a surgeon.
She's just like, ooh, what's inhere?
Ooh, what's underneath?
And, and sometimes it's justlike, no, no, no, stop asking.
Just, just, I, I need a bit of abreak.
But it's really interestingwhere she gets curious.
And you ask questions like, ifyou, you know, who, Um, who
first thought about how to laybricks for a house?

(55:28):
What, what was, what was the,what was the thought process
they went through?
What was, what was thediscovery?
You know, what, where they went,Oh, if you have a brick of this
width, this size and thismaterial that we can make it and
what, what needed to happen toget to that point?
Because you, we walk along hereis a huge building over there.
It's a council, um, Car park,which is which is closed.

(55:49):
I can demolish it at some point.
It's fully brick.
I've got bricks on the wall hereWho kind of went?
Oh, these bricks all fittogether in this way.
And if I use this particularMaterial made up in this way and
I put it here and I leave it fora set amount of time All these
things who you know when you'rewhen you're on the back of the
fire wagon Who was the personwho decided?

(56:11):
How long the ladders have to be,how those ladders fit together,
the mechanism, who, who thenstress tested it.
And one of the things when youtalk about fire, and I didn't
realise about the fire stuff,which is really interesting,
there's a, there's a story, andI'm, I'm assuming this is a,
this is a true story, and if it,if it isn't a true story, it's
an urban legend, I, I don'tcare, I still love it, is that
there was a, a fire chief whoturned up at a, at a fire.

(56:36):
And just before they were aboutto go through the door, he, he,
he stopped and said, no,everyone back, and they, they,
everyone stepped back, and thena few seconds later, there,
there was an explosion in thebuilding.
And somebody came to himafterwards and said, why, what
was it, what was it that madeyou do that?
Because there was no, there wereno signs at all.
That, that, that was going tohappen.
There was no, no warning at all.

(56:57):
And yet you went, no, everyoneback.
And, and there was an explosion.
You know, did you plan to bomb?
It was, it was that kind ofthing.
And, and the guy said, well, hesaid, the thing is, he said, I
remember as a, when I was, whenI was, you know, very early on
in the fire service, I remembera very similar experience.
And there was something whichchanged in the air, which I was

(57:18):
very aware of it, the air almostlike changed direction a little
bit.
There was a subtle shift hesaid, and I instantly in that
moment recognized that, thatthat was probably going to
happen.
And, and I just, just made thatcall.
A very intuition patternrecognition thing.
If, if he hadn't have beenpresent for that, how many
people might have died.
And like I say, I dunno whetherthat's a true story or not.

(57:38):
I, I like it as a story becauseyou know, how many times do we.
Do we miss out on things, or dowe make decisions which aren't
great because we're not present?
How many times do we moan aboutbeing stuck in traffic?
But actually, the very factwe're stuck in traffic at this
point, which adds an extra fiveminutes to our journey, might
mean that we miss being in acrash.
Whereas if we were rushingthrough, we might be in a crash.

(57:59):
It's all those little what ifsand curious questions and Uh,
my, my, my poor, my poor brummybrain doesn't have space for all
of these things most of thetime, but occasionally it just
catches me and I go, Ooh, whatif?
Who invented that?
That's a bit weird, isn't it?
And, but even just your, youknow, your, your on the back of
the fire wagon driving down thestreet, and you think about In

(58:21):
every house there is at leastone person, and that one person
has a number of years experienceand a life and stories.
And then you start to look atthe scope of that.
How many stories are there?
How many lives?
How many of it overlaps?
How many things are different ornew?
How many people And this was oneof the things which I, I really
remember from, from working inthe nursing home, one of my

(58:42):
first jobs, was that you sawthis person as somebody whose
mobility wasn't good, probablywas going to drop food down, may
well be demented, may well beconfused, may well be
incontinent, unable to care forstuff, but if you only ever If
you only have dwelt on that, youforgot that they'd got decades
of experience where it was loveand loss and commitment and

(59:08):
achievement and choice andcontrol.
And they got things going backto a time in the world which
which I Which only you ever readabout in history books.
Yet you have this living,breathing person in front of
you.
Who, if they are confused,probably remembers more about
Haha, just thought now of a guycalled Bert I used to look after
who, who reminded me once of, Ithink it was like someone like

(59:28):
the 1935 Beauty Queen from um,

James (59:31):
from Wolverhampton called

David (59:32):
Queenie Braun.
It's, it's amazing what youremember.
But all these memories and allthese experiences which you
don't tap into and those are allout there.
But while we're in this pursuitof more money, faster cars,
nicer Internet, more beautifulclothes, all of these things, I
think, are absolutely fine.
And I think we should earn moneyso that we can have that base of

(59:56):
support, but it's what we do ontop of that.
AI, beautiful, love it, use itmost days, it knows more, know
more about me than my therapist,it is wonderful.
But if we only ever use it to dothings faster and quicker and to
make more money, we're missingout on what it can do for us so
we can be more human.
That's my, that's my view, Icould be wrong, that's a hill
I'll die on, and, and I might bewrong, but we shall see.

James (01:00:20):
It brings us back actually quite nicely to the
question, uh, of what is, whatis happiness, what is joy, and
how does that incorporate in ourlife?
From what we just spoke about, Ifeel almost as though we
answered our own question there,because underneath the surface
of present and being present,there's that idea that we have

(01:00:42):
all these senses, all these, um,all these, um, so hearing,
smelling, touching, ourintuitive, uh, senses.
And when we combine all of them,there's almost that sense of
like, I'm smoothing my handalong my, um, Uh, Mike, touching

(01:01:02):
my desk and there's all themsenses and it's almost like in
that enjoyment, that, that joyof actually witnessing our
surroundings.
But in this present moment, it'salmost like drinking a glass of
water, that smoothness of watergoing down across your mouth,

(01:01:23):
through your tongue, down yourthroat.
There's almost that sense of.
Curiosity of discovering newthings about not just our
surroundings, but aboutourselves, and understanding
that happiness and joy is justsomething that we have right now

(01:01:45):
in this moment, and it'ssomething that we can, we can
have in an instant, but it hasto be a level of Deeper
understanding of who we actuallyare.

David (01:01:59):
Yeah, and and they there's a phrase which is, you
know, happiness is a choice orhappiness isn't in a game.
And I'm totally on board withthat.
The caveat I would always add tothat is it's much easier to be
happier when you have enoughmoney to survive.
And that's because of thesociety around us.
I mean, my friend Alex, AlexWilliams, when we did our
podcast, we talk about this alot is, you know, it's, it's,

(01:02:20):
it's almost like.
I, I see all these people on, onsocial media who turn around and
say, you know, you must lookafter yourself.
You must take time foryourselves.
But they're usually the peoplewho, for many years, haven't
looked after themselves, haven'ttaken time for themselves, and
now we're in a, a privilegedposition where they can do it.
The, the real, the real goal forme is that your, your average
individual is able to take thetime which they need for

(01:02:42):
themselves because happiness isa choice.
It isn't in is it isn't in agame.
But there are certain thingswhich are stacked in our favor
for that.
And there are certain thingswhich are stacked against us.
What I always find amusing with,with, with happiness is that
happiness is, is correlated toincome, depending on which
studies you read.
If you read, there's a, there'sa study from about 2010, which

(01:03:04):
shows that it's, it's correlatedwith income up to a certain
point and then afterwards itmakes no difference.
There's another one which showsit is correlated and it
continues upwards.
And when you look at the, youlook at the research in a bit
more detail, what it, what itsuggests is that it's not about
pure happiness.
It's about absence of worry.
And those are very differentthings.
If I don't have to worry, thatdoesn't mean I'm happy because

(01:03:24):
you can be in a situation whereyou don't have to worry and you
can be very unhappy.
Mm-hmm So it isn't in a game.
It it, it's a choice.
And start, start small bylooking around you.
I mean, I, I.
At one point, I am going to finda way of peeling off a post it
note and sticking it onsomething where it doesn't curl
up at the edges.
That, that, in fact, that couldbe a lifetime.

(01:03:46):
That could be a focus for alifetime.
But it starts small.
Start with, start with thelittle stuff and find the, find
the joy in that.
And if you don't find joy inthat thing, find someone else.
You find joy or something orsomeone and, and, and just work
your way through until you findsomething and then go, that
gives me joy.
I'm going to enjoy it.
That makes me happy.
I'm going to enjoy it.
That makes me sad and angry.
I'm going to avoid it.

(01:04:07):
You, you, you get to decide andyou get to choose.
Not some social media influenceron Instagram who's trying to
sell you a, you know, a 97product to make you happy and
telling you what happiness isabout.
It's all in here.

James (01:04:22):
So it leads us on quite nicely to the probably the last
bit.
When it comes to people goingthrough challenges, how can they
Explore that idea of happinessbeing an inner game.
What kind of things can they dodaily in order to step into that

(01:04:44):
feeling?

David (01:04:46):
That's a really good question.
I think one of the The firstthing I'd say is that people are
not alone with these things.
We think that our experience is100 percent unique and no one
ever feels what we feel.
And that's not true.
So there will be other peopleout there who feel what you feel
and be around them.
The other thing is, for me, itcomes back to a lot of A lot of
the simple practices, it's lookafter your body.

(01:05:08):
Move, get good sleep, get goodnutrition, all, all of the
things which are not sexy andare dull and boring To make sure
that you are, you are clear,clear on who you are, the
authenticity piece of valuesKnow, know who you are, have
some kind of control or choiceover what you do So, so make
sure that if you, if you'rechoosing sometimes you're in the

(01:05:29):
day to do something andcontrolling that you, you, you
You have that for you and thenconnect, you know, connect back
to yourself Some people that'smeditation and mindfulness, some
people that's exercise, somepeople it's cooking, some
people, whatever it is, but alsobe connecting with other people
as well.
I quite often think that, and Isaw this a lot when I was, when

(01:05:50):
I was nursing, is you findpeople, people who, who choke,
they swallow something, theychoke.
What they don't do is they don'tgo out in front of people and go
Help me out.
I'm choking.
They actually move themselves toa place where they're away from
other people because I don'twant to be a Bird and they're
embarrassed by it And I thinkthat seems to happen quite a lot
with with how people feel Peoplewant to move if they're not

(01:06:12):
feeling great I want to moveaway from other people because I
don't want other people to feelwhat they're feeling And
actually the best things theycan do sometimes actually move
towards other people because youprobably got to find that you're
not alone And someone can helpAnd that, that's, that's where
I, that's where I'd begin andI'm always open for the fact
that all of that stuff could bewrong and you just have to find
out what works for you.

James (01:06:31):
There's a level of, um, acceptance as well of where you
are.
Yeah.
So one of the things I've cometo realize over my journey is
that if, for example, I'm angryand I try to run away from that,
it's just going to run after me.
So the best thing I've come torealize myself is that Just

(01:06:56):
almost face it and take it andalmost open arms, accept it for
what it is, it's anger, justcome here anger, come here, let
me, let me give you a bit oflove and attention.

David (01:07:10):
Yeah.

James (01:07:11):
And I've done, I know I've done it for many years
this, but I've realized that ifI allow this feeling or emotion
to come into me and to accept itfor what it is, it disappears.
And I get something better onthe other side, but if you run
away from it, oh, it chases youdown the alleyway, you know, and

(01:07:33):
it's, and it's, it's never goingto leave you.
So the more that we turn andface these things, even, even
dread, despair, frustration,overwhelm, procrastination, all
these things we should headstraight, you know, we should
accept it with open arms.
And then once we've accepted it,and taken a few deep breaths,

(01:07:53):
you can ask yourself, What's theone thing I can do now, to step
forward?

David (01:08:00):
Yeah, and even, even if, even if you can't face it head
on, which is okay, even if youjust kind of stand sideways and
know it's there.
And there's a, there's a phraseI love, which is that, um, that
thinking isn't the problem, it'sthe thinking about thinking.
Anger isn't a problem until youtake it into another direction.
And I've heard all kinds ofthings where, you know, an

(01:08:21):
emotion appears for 20 secondsand off it goes, it dissipates.
But when we hold onto it, that'swhen we turn it into something
else.
You, you, you do make thatchoice, and I also acknowledge
that there are times when, thereare times when making that
choice is hard, and there aretimes as well when, I've had
recently, I've, I've, the phraseI use quite often when people

(01:08:41):
ask how I'm doing is, I justwant to throat punch the
universe, I just, just feellike, I just feel like, I just
want, I want to lash out atthings, and I'm, I'm very lucky
I've got people around me who'vebeen able to, to, to, um, To
create an environment which hasbeen really good for me, and
they've they've let that runthrough and give me a different
viewpoint when I've needed it.
But sometimes you just need to,you need to be in that space

(01:09:01):
where you're feeling thingswhich aren't great, and that's
okay.
But also having the emotionalintelligence and the curiosity
to go, Well, okay, how do I wantto?
How long do I want to feel thisfor?
Because it's okay to feel bad orgrief or whatever in the moment.
The question is, how long do youwant to feel this for?
And, and that's where if you, ifyou're, in my opinion, if
you're, if you're not careful,a, anger for me in particular,

(01:09:26):
anger became an identity ratherthan emotion which passed
through and I had to changethat, that relationship with it,
even to the point where somebodyactually once said, well, you're
just an angry person.
I turned around, no, that's nottrue.
I said, anger is an emotionwhich I experienced.
So we can drop that label oflabeling me as angry.
I said, because you get angry aswell.
I didn't, I didn't like thatvery much and that's okay.

(01:09:48):
But you, that acceptance, the,another favorite phrase of mine
is don't argue with reality,because reality will always win.
You, you play with it.
It's fun.
It's, it's like holding an egg.
You hold it too tight, you breakit, you don't hold it enough,
you drop it on the floor.
It's just right.
You've got to, or if, or if allelse fails, you just boil it or
scramble it.

James (01:10:08):
What is it that you do?

David (01:10:10):
What do I do?
I Now, I I help people I helpbusiness owners and leaders to
speak with authenticity, fun andconfidence.
So I take people who want to beseen and heard whether it's part
of their business or have amessage to share and I help them
with the skills whilemaintaining who they are.
So for me it's about amplifyingwho you are with some speaky
skills on the side in order todo that.

(01:10:32):
And that's one of the things Ido.
Other stuff I do, host events,do keynote speaking and then a
bit of stand up comedy and standup comedy hosting on the side.

James (01:10:40):
Thank you very much.
It's been an absolutelyincredible conversation.
I even went off script and justlet the conversation flow.
So

David (01:10:47):
yeah.
Yes, we've had fun and freedom.
No, I really appreciate it,James.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate the invite.
It's been a delightfulconversation.
It really has.
This is lovely.
This is the kind of stuff I livefor is conversations like this.
So thank you.

James (01:11:05):
Thank you.