April 2, 2025 • 52 mins
Episode Title: Breaking Addictions & Facing Resistance with James Banks
In this deeply honest and transformative episode of Man: A Quest to Find Meaning, I’m joined by James Banks — a recovery coach, group facilitator, and man who has walked the path from addiction to awakening. With over a decade of sobriety behind him, James opens up about his journey through alcohol and drug addiction, the impact of childhood trauma, and the resistance we all face when stepping into growth and change.
We explore the root causes of addiction — not just the substances or behaviours themselves but the emotional pain, disconnection, and shame that often lie beneath. James shares how he came to realize that his addictions were rooted in unresolved childhood wounds and how the power of connection, community, and the 12-step program helped him heal.
You’ll learn why resistance shows us exactly where the work is, how anxiety can become a compass, and why doing the things we fear the most is the key to transformation. We also discuss the role of introspection, honesty, and willingness in personal growth and how shame and guilt can be healed through vulnerability and community support.
Whether you’re battling addiction, stuck in a self-sabotaging habit, or feeling resistance around a relationship or personal goal, this episode will give you insight, inspiration, and tools to move forward.
What you’ll learn in this episode:
- The hidden roots of addiction and why trauma plays a major role
- The power of community and connection in healing
- How to face resistance and anxiety with courage
- The importance of introspection, honesty, and openness
- How to begin letting go of shame and guilt
- Practical first steps to recovery and personal transformation
About James Banks:
With over a decade of experience as an addiction support worker,James has dedicated his life to helping others break free from the cycle of addiction. Having personally overcome addiction 12 years ago, he draws from his own journey of recovery to offer empathy, understanding, and practical support to those ready to make a change. His work in group settings fosters community, accountability, and healing for individuals who seek a path to recovery.
James is not only a seasoned addiction support worker but also a trained bodyworker and practitioner of plant-based medicine, incorporating both physical and holistic healing methods into his practice. He believes in the power of plants as allies and tools for emotional and spiritual growth.
In his commitment to making recovery accessible to all, James offers free support groups for individuals who may face financial barriers, as well as online support for those who can access paid services. His approach is rooted in the belief that recovery is possible for everyone, and he actively models a healthy, balanced lifestyle by staying fit and active, showing others that lasting change is achievable. Through his work, James inspires and empowers others to take the first step towards their own healing.
E-mail: Jamesbanksaddiction@gmail.com
Instagram: Jamesbanksaddiction
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
In this week's episode, we talkabout addiction and how
conscious awareness is crucialto change how childhood trauma
tends to be the root ofaddiction and how you can
explore this, the power ofcommunity, and how connection is
the key to addiction.
And leaning into resistance anddiscomfort and doing what you
(00:23):
least want to do is where thegrowth happens.
Welcome to Man (00:28):
A Quest to Find Meaning, where we help men
navigate modern life, find theirtrue purpose, and redefine
manhood.
I'm your host, James, and eachweek, inspiring guests share
their journeys of overcomingfear Embracing vulnerability and
finding success.
(00:48):
From experts to everyday heroes.
Get practical advice andpowerful insights.
Struggling with career,relationships or personal
growth?
We've got you covered.
Join us on Man Quest to FindMeaning.
Now, let's dive in.
James (01:05):
Good morning, James.
Tell me about yourself.
James Banks (Guest) (01:10):
Where do we even start with that question?
In the terms of us meeting onthis podcast, so myself now, is
someone that has been inrecovery for 12 to 13 years.
So I've removed myself fromalcohol, primarily alcohol,
(01:31):
cocaine, and any other drugsthat came with it.
And after a lifetime of abuse.
So this version currently of menow is someone who's in recovery
and does his very best to beaware of his behaviors on the
(01:52):
outside world and on myrelationships opposed to me.
So I am trying very hard to be aconscious being.
That's who I am.
James (02:05):
So let's start there, actually, because I'm interested
because two I feel when you'vegot addictions or habits which
perhaps particularly aren'tparticularly good for you, to
become conscious of them.
Can be a big ask for a lot ofpeople.
How did you start to becomeconscious of your addictions?
James Banks (Guest) (02:29):
I started drinking and using substances
like at a young age.
Not addictively, not toodamaging.
But it was like from 13, likedrinking.
Cider in the park, all that.
(02:50):
Smoking spliffs.
LSD, 14, 15.
And it's been a while since I'vespoken about this.
Because when I stopped drinkingand doing what I was doing, my
daughter was 13, which is theage that I was thinking when I
was drinking in a park up to nogood.
(03:13):
Smoking cannabis LSD.
I was thinking, wow, 13, that'snot really an age to be
experimenting the way I was, butthat's the way it was.
Where I was and where it is fora lot of people, but being
consciously aware of myaddictions, I don't think that
was ever the case.
(03:34):
I knew it was a problem for along time.
So I stopped, I'm now 49.
I stopped drinking when I was36.
Yeah.
For the last, oh God, from mytwenties.
It was a problem from my, yeah,late teens, twenties.
(03:55):
So I've been aware that I had aproblem for a long time.
A long time.
Didn't do anything about itthough, till I was 36.
James (04:02):
Regards to you now every day.
'cause what I find is, I'verealized that I've got
addictions to social media.
I've got addictions to porn asan example, and.
But it's one thing going fromdoing it automatically to
(04:24):
stepping into that versionyourself where you actually, you
start to realize that, oh, evenbefore you, you actually do it,
that you're about to do it.
What was it that actually led tothat point where you decided,
you know what, I'm putting itcompletely?
James Banks (Guest) (04:46):
So there was lots of, there was lots of
reasons why, physically itweren't happening.
My body was giving up, my bodywas giving up.
I was like, I was bloated.
It was yellow.
I was physically, withdrawn alot of times, DTs and all that.
So physically it weren'tsustainable, so that was, it
gave him emotionally.
(05:07):
One of the big turning pointsfor me was was the damage it was
doing to me mum.
That I was physically watchingher.
Because I'd put a lot of it onher.
I lived about three, four milesaway.
But I'd burn all my bridges andI'd spend all my money and burn
the mines.
I'm a grown, I'm a grown man.
You know what I mean?
I've been working and all, I wasa chef for a long time, which
(05:31):
didn't really help with thedrinking because we used to
drink in the kitchen and thenwe'd drink after work and so on
and all that.
But I used to go down to mymum's for food, that's what it
was really, and a bit of respiteaway from my flat because it was
dirty, so I'd go down.
But then, towards the end, Iwas, I was manipulating her to
(05:53):
for money.
Saying, if I don't, if I don'tget her a drink, this can
happen, it's really dangerous,because it was alcohol
dependent.
This was true, but it wasmanipulation, and it was, that's
what it was.
But my mum came home one morningand I was all like that.
And she refused to go to shop toto buy alcohol, which I'd never
(06:16):
asked her to do before, butshe'd never refused me anything
ever.
And that was a, that was amoment, even while I was, Under
the influence, DTs and all thatwas a moment was like, I have
pushed this, whatever this is,this lifestyle to the, to its
(06:37):
very edge.
And for my mum to turn aroundand say no to me, there was a
sign that this has come to, youcan't even get that person who
would do anything for you to dothat.
It's it's over.
It is over.
And there was an internal.
change there and then thathelped me.
(06:59):
It didn't, it wasn't instant.
You know what I mean?
I was still an alcoholic and anaddict and I hadn't sorted my
life out at all, but there wassomething in there that made me
go ah no.
So there was a decline then anda look towards recovery, which
you didn't know.
(07:20):
I knew one person from my field,It would come in, gone into
Sorted recovery like into thesegroups in Leal City Center that
like would do arts and maybelike day GA and computers and
stuff like that.
So we knew it was on thehorizon, and that was like the
beginning.
That was like 2000,
(07:41):
2012, 2012, 2013.
James (07:47):
First thing congratulations.
for so many years of being soberand breaking addictions.
With regards to the people youhave worked with, what do you
believe is the root cause ofaddiction?
James Banks (Guest) (08:01):
Or
James (08:04):
is there one, shall I say?
Or are there many?
James Banks (Guest) (08:10):
So my, my, my outlook, my, my ways around
recovery have changed massivelyover the years.
Over the years.
So I came through, I went torehab for 12 weeks.
And whilst in rehab, we wereencouraged, my rehab was a
Monday to Friday, nine to five.
(08:31):
So you were locked in ish forthose times.
And then of an evening you wererequired to go to a meeting, a
mutual aid meeting.
So that would be AlcoholicsAnonymous, Cocaine Anonymous,
Narcotics Anonymous.
So within those 12 weeks Istarted going to meetings.
Which was the transformative.
(08:51):
catapult for me, just the 12steps.
That's what changed me.
So I was very studious.
I was completely engaged in theprogram.
I lived from the book ofAlcoholics Anonymous.
Every single word in it spoke tome, for me.
(09:13):
I've done it to the letter.
It says if you don't want todrink and use again, then follow
these principles.
And I've done that because Ididn't want, not want to go
back.
Fast forward again five yearsago.
I went down plant medicine.
Iboga initially ayahuasca, acouple of sittings, mushrooms,
(09:37):
yeah, cannabis, psychedelic.
I've used all these modules tofurther my understanding of
myself and the world, notnecessarily addiction.
I've come more towards GabaMati.
If any of you are familiar withhis work, or Gab and Mate, as
(09:59):
they call him in Liverpool, Gaband Mate.
He's, he will say, show me anaddict, an alcoholic, and I will
show you someone who didn't havea happy childhood.
And I initially, I was like,nah, not having that.
I had a happy childhood, I hadthis and this.
(10:22):
And there was a friend of ours,she's a doctor.
And she trains in CompassionateInquiry, which is Gabba Maté's
module.
And the opening question for theCompassionate Inquiry, which I
knew this because I've workedwith this woman and was on a
retreat with her and it took thefull hit, so I knew it was
coming.
So the opening question is,Simply tell me about your happy
(10:49):
childhood.
So I knew that was coming And Irushed we live up on the north
coast here you can't see interms of showing up to Windsor.
There's the atlantic ocean.
It's amazing, but it doesn't goany further so we're rushing
back up for this appointmentwith this woman that I was sat
(11:09):
down on zoom again and all thezoom gremlins couldn't get in
and She said okay james.
Come on.
Just close yourself breathe withme.
I'm into the So I sat down, andshe said, Tell me about your
happy childhood.
(11:30):
So I'm inside my head, justwent, Let me get a I'm on a, an
old fashioned workman's desk,that with all the numbers, that.
But all the, like a roller deskand I had all these images going
around my brain like, and Icried.
Something came in from in there.
You can't see where the press,I'm writing my soul up like, it
(11:52):
came from there.
This sadness.
I was uncontrollable.
I didn't have one.
I didn't have one.
And so that was the beginning ofme.
understanding trauma and earlyevents.
(12:17):
I think we spoke about this whenI was walking the dog.
It's about my dad left when Iwas, I can't remember, I always
say about two.
I don't even know if that'sright.
So I can't remember him beingthere, but I spent a lifetime
searching.
The stories I got told comingdown, shaving, there was a
shaver, a little bit of tissuepaper on my face.
I was copying, we weren't there.
(12:38):
I used to go out, we lived on ahousing estate, a bit like
Shameless, a little city centrejust on the outskirts.
I used to go knock for fellas,other dads, and they'd come in
and go, Jimmy there, I'm gonnado that.
I used to go and sit in thebutchers, used to go to work
men.
I was searching for my dad, doyou know what I mean?
(12:59):
I was missing something.
And my template was a lot ofolive.
From a long line of alcoholics,pub alcoholics, whatever, it
doesn't matter.
So I became him, even though weweren't there, because that was
my genetic template.
But I do believe, I mean, I canspeak for myself, I can only
(13:23):
ever speak for myself.
Obviously it's hard to ignorethe hundreds of people, maybe
more, thousands of people I'vesat and worked with that have
all come, I can't generalise,but childhood trauma, you would
not do these things if you werehappy, stable
and
cared for and loved and you just wouldn't,
(13:43):
so early childhood trauma hasthe massive impact on
James (13:49):
people's self esteem.
Do you find that's quite acommon thing with the people
that you work with?
James Banks (Guest) (13:56):
I can pretty much go straight there
with people.
I can buy, I can do, I can workwith people however they want to
work, but if you want to gostraight to the source, there's
a great, there's a great sayingthe treasures we seek.
Yeah, hidden by the dragons wefear, so there's that as well,
(14:17):
if you, with addictions, if youwant to move away from it, then
be prepared to do the things youdon't want to do.
And I can say to people, what isit you don't want to do to get
clean and sober?
In those terms what are thethings you don't want to do to
stop drinking?
So what do you, and then I gookay, that's what, that's what
you need to do then.
James (14:37):
Funny thing is the last couple of days I read this small
piece within this work that I'mdoing and it said that for us to
get the biggest transformationor the biggest growth We've
gotta do the things that weassist the most.
And so the sense in there, itdoesn't necessarily have to be
within diction, it could bewithin the business or
(14:58):
relationships or any area of alife, but there's so many things
that we resist.
And the funny thing is, Iyesterday I got back onto Bumble
and I've got a match.
And suddenly all theseinsecurities came in thinking
you're not good enough kind ofthing and all these different
stuff.
(15:18):
And what I realized was that wasbang on.
That's my resistance is becausequite often when my insecurities
pop up, I pull back and don't doanything about it.
So it was that realization thatin order to pass that.
to get through that resistance,I've got to hit that head on and
(15:38):
I've got to do somethingdifferent what I wouldn't
normally wouldn't do.
And so it's conversationinteraction.
James Banks (Guest) (15:46):
Yeah, most definitely.
Just be prepared to do thethings you don't want to do.
That's where that's so well.
So my role in, in recovery, Iwent From rehab straight into
volunteering for every, becauseit was all the poor city center.
So it was like volunteering withthe homeless, the YMCA any
(16:08):
mental health addiction rehabs,detox units, all that.
Do you know that?
And then I went into thebecoming a grief worker.
Sort of lost my, I was sayingthat, what were we saying there,
what were we talking about atthe beginning?
James (16:25):
We were talking about resistance and stepping into
resistance and about you goingand volunteering.
James Banks (Guest) (16:30):
That's right.
That's right.
So I'd say to people, whateverit is that you don't want to do,
that's what it is we need to do.
So everyone that came into mygroup, or we've done assessments
on for every alcoholic andaddict.
And this is like a 10 yearcareer.
Everyone's put down anxiety anddepression, right?
(16:52):
The thing is with anxiety, thisis what was thinking about, is
that, and the resistance, likebeing on Bumble, is that I've
got a level of where my anxietywill come up to like water
coming up a beach, leaving amark, leave a little mark, and
(17:12):
then it'll go back down.
But if it comes up, To where Iknow it comes up to and I just
allow it to sink back again.
I haven't moved.
I haven't moved forward.
So the next time that matchcomes on Bumble, I'm going to
get up to that point.
I'm going to go and let it go.
(17:35):
But what I encourage and what Iencourage for myself, let it
come up and walk through withit.
I go against it, because I sayto people, no one's died from
anxiety.
Not that I know of.
It's not physically you'vegotten overly anxious and
created the massive cardiacarrest.
It's just your body telling youthat there's something not quite
(17:58):
right here.
Have a little nose and you cango, do you know what?
There's nothing happening apartfrom what I'm thinking.
Let's go through it.
James (18:09):
At the end of the day, it's just energy, isn't it?
Anxiety, emotions, just energy.
So if you just allow, almost sitwith that energy and just
breathe through it, that energyis going to dissipate.
And I find, because I must admitmy general feeling can quite
often be anxiousness.
(18:31):
But at the same time, I don'tallow it to affect me because I
allow myself to breathe throughit.
And then I allow myself to feelthe love that I have for myself,
and for the people around me.
And that allows me to stepthrough it.
Rather than, for me to overtakeyou.
I saw also in the same piecethat quite often when people
(18:52):
have emotions, they allow theemotions to control what they
do.
Rather than, emotions are there,we should be allowing ourselves
to use our emotions in a healthyway.
Rather than allowing theemotions to use us.
So if you've got, say forexample, I saw on TV that
(19:13):
there's 200, there's 2 millionpeople of sick from work.
And a lot of them they'll sayit's anxiety attacks.
But if you allow yourself to gointo that anxiety and to feel
that rather than allowing it touse you and to perhaps keep you
in your house, step into it,breathe, and then just A small,
(19:37):
tiny step of what the anxiety iscoming up with.
James Banks (Guest) (19:42):
This is exactly what I what I come up
when I was teaching people ingroups, is that line.
You're only ever going to get tothere and then go back, but get
up to there.
And I used to say to people, Iwould hold, I will hold your
hand.
Genuinely or figuratively ormetaphorically to get you
(20:05):
across, right?
Because you're caught inrecovery.
So with me working mymotivational or my experience or
my skills, whatever you want ingroup, all I'm doing is, at
best, I can lead people to whatwe call a bridge of reason.
(20:25):
So I'll take them from one,we'll stay in this pen, and
Right, and I'll bring them overto a bridge and I'll go look at
that over there, isn't thatamazing?
Look at that greenery, look atthat peace, look at that fun
that's possible, look at thatfuture.
People are terrified to crossover the bridge into sobriety
(20:46):
into unknown, into, This oh,newness.
So it's a bridge of reason, butthat's your anxiety, that's,
that stops you from crossing.
But it's you know what, no.
Once you come over you'll be allright.
Even just a little step, getonto the bridge, come back, and
so on.
(21:07):
So you are, we know this and,but it's took me so many years.
We know this, but for theaverage person, it's like the
body is in control, like theemotion.
No.
I feel it.
It must be real.
I think it.
It must be
James (21:24):
real.
No.
So how can people take that first step to realize that
their emotions are controllingthem?
James Banks (Guest) (21:33):
I'm a great believer and not just a great
believer, right?
Connection, connection.
We don't know if I don't knowhow to do something, I'm going
to look at someone.
This is how I've managed to getwhere I am.
I looked at someone else who'ddone what it is I needed to do.
And I copied that and I'd doneit.
(21:53):
So when I was surrounded bypeople to choose from, to look
at, to emulate, ape, we're justapes.
That's what we do.
But a species that can learn bywatching others as well, and
feeling safe and connected, notfeeling like a feel.
'cause other people have madethe mistakes for me, I can say,
(22:14):
ah, do you know what I mean?
I'm not gonna do that because hedone that.
But he told me, never shownanything they gave me.
We had this.
Conversation.
I was never shown how to be aman, how to be whatever that
means, to be courageous.
And I know women can becourageous, but I never seen it
in myself.
How to emulate and do all thesethings.
(22:35):
I had a lot, I was starting fromscratch in a lot of areas.
James (22:39):
Yeah.
I've, I, since last, 2022, Iwent to the Mankind Project,
have you heard of the MankindProject?
I did my warrior training backthen.
And, basically, you are thrownamongst 40 other people.
And you were held by 40 othermen who have been through the
(23:02):
process and within that weekend,the warrior training, you get to
witness yourself and others gothrough a process of completely
transforming their lives fromunderstanding who they are.
(23:23):
Allowing yourself to go intoyour emotional self.
You're able to look other men inthe eyes and really connect for
the very first time.
And within that weekend, I hadquite a profound realization
that when you are around otherpeople who, where, or where you
(23:44):
want to be, there's a sense ofreally stepping into that
version of yourself.
And so you're right, having thatconnection with people who are
where you want to be, but alsotaking yourself away from
(24:04):
perhaps your environment thatyou're already in and stepping
in, just seeing perhaps a personin the distance, how he's
acting.
And so I think it's even moreimportant that us who are more
conscious of these these traits,these addictions, everything
that happens in our normallives, we can really step into
who we're meant to be so that wecan help others to do the same
(24:27):
at the same time.
James Banks (Guest) (24:28):
Exactly.
Everyone is our teacher,everyone.
So all the ceremonies I've beento, all the courses and the
retreats and, anything like theself help programs and whatever,
every single person I comeacross.
is there to teach me something.
(24:50):
Everyone knows something Idon't.
Everyone.
I never, I will always learnfrom everyone, and I need to get
on my own way.
That that's the big thing.
Get out my own way.
So I've done those, thearchetypal training, the men's
groups, and I can watch someoneelse.
(25:14):
maybe dance in the distance abit more freely and not self
conscious, it's only me thatjudges me.
I'm not judging him, but he'sgiving me permission to dance as
well, and then I'm off then.
And whilst I'm doing That loopof all this, me watching him
(25:35):
dance and going, no, it's allright.
I can dance too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Someone else is watching megoing, you know what maybe I can
do what they're doing, causethat's how it works.
Always the, like in the gym,you're always looking at the.
You want to be someone overthere.
Someone else is watching you.
They want to be where you arebecause they haven't got that
(25:58):
far, and that's how it works.
And it's only me that's in theway.
Yeah,
James (26:04):
it's nicely put.
We are our biggest block.
It's funny thing was I was atdance a couple of Sundays ago.
And it's a static dance, andwithin that static dance, there
was, I was just dancing there'sno tomorrow.
I don't know what it is aboutthe music, but I literally just
(26:25):
lose myself, and I dance like acomplete nutter.
That's the best way to put it, acomplete nutter.
But, you, when you look around,what I'm noticing is that people
are smiling at how I dance,because I'm so free.
And, it's that realization thatin that moment you are allowing
(26:51):
Other people to be just as freeas you and then there'll be
people who I look up to who canallow me to be as completely
free as them.
James Banks (Guest) (27:05):
Yeah, a lot of goals.
Yeah.
and all it goes.
So I wouldn't be one of thosepeople smiling at you dancing so
freely.
That's one of the restrictionsI've still attached to myself.
You wouldn't know it in publicor if you're in an ecstatic
dance together, you wouldn'tknow it, but I still restrict.
(27:29):
Myself, and then I'd watchbecause we've got where we are
in They're on the north coastpost, but we've got like a space
in belfast Called body consciouson a place called botanic
avenue, which is just like thestudents area of belfast.
It's a real cool It's a nicearea like botanic park at the
end, but we're all events inthere, and one of them is
(27:53):
contact improv, I'm sure you,but there's a girl in there
she's a musician, she's contactimprov, she's singers, she's a
practitioner, a body worker, andshe's so talented, but I watch
her do all these things andshe's just, I think maybe she
does a little bit, you know whatI mean?
But it's just like no Fs given,that is like freedom.
(28:16):
That is freedom, because noone's asked.
No one's asked apart frommyself.
I love it.
James (28:24):
It's taken me, it took me, it's taken me three years to
get to this point where I can,and there's still Now and again,
get into my head, but it's along process of really going to
the events like this.
And so it's this tails quitenicely back into addictions,
because obviously, once youstart to overcome addictions,
(28:46):
it's not going to be a straightpath.
There's going to be bumps in theroad.
And It's this idea that if I usethe idea of watching porn, I
might have four or five, maybe aweek of not doing anything, and
then I'll get thrown back intoit all.
And that's okay, because that'spart of the process, and it's
(29:10):
becoming conscious in thatmoment, maybe after it's
happened, that, um, what was itthat actually made me do that?
And then
eventually you'll just keep moving on to the next
thing.
And I've come to, I'm going todo Graham Waterfield's course on
sexual energy and all that kindof stuff.
(29:31):
Cause I feel that's the nextstage for me.
But it's that realization thatwhen you hit a bump.
You, it's okay, but it's aboutgetting back up again and going
again.
So it's quite easy at that pointto say, do you know what?
I can't, I'm going to stop.
I can't be bothered.
I've fallen.
I'm going to stop.
But as a baby, if you fall overwhen you're trying to walk, are
(29:52):
you going to stop?
No, you're going to carry on.
So why does adults, why do westop when we should be carrying
a train again and again?
James Banks (Guest) (30:00):
I feel that if we're doing any of this on
our own, if we have identifiedthe problem, and then try and
figure it out on our own, thenthat seems to be the pattern,
because if we haven't identifiedwhy we're doing this
(30:20):
subjectively and brought inother people to look at it and
that full 360 trained people aswell.
Then we're never going to getout of the loop that we put
ourselves in.
It's like one of the Einsteinand so on said, we can't think
ourselves out of a problem thatour minds has created.
(30:42):
The same mind can't come outthat created the problem.
We need to be around others.
James (30:50):
So that's why AA and other ones and other groups are
so powerful.
Definitely.
Definitely.
James Banks (Guest) (30:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And not all, quite contentiousfor some people, AA and CA
they'll always go on about it'sreligious.
It's not.
The book was wrote by anatheist, an agnostic, and it
clearly states in the book thatit uses the word God as a term
(31:19):
of convenience for you tochange, talk about the spiritual
experience that Carl Jung spokeabout in order to be
transformative with analcoholic.
When someone else with otherbehavioral issues, you have to
have a spiritual experience, andhe doesn't talk about a
religious one, he talks about aspiritual experience, where you
(31:40):
see things, instead of looking,like, where you become
conscious, instead of justlooking out, where you're
looking, or sorry, you'relooking in at how everything's
affecting you.
Like that, your eyes need toturn and start looking
completely, how things areaffecting others, how that
internally is affecting outside,as we're in, so we're out.
(32:03):
Not everyone in AA is well.
That's the, that's the nature ofthe, not everyone in AA or CA or
NA understands the program thescripture of your life the rules
that people are playing by.
So it becomes dogmatic andpeople bring their own nonsense
in.
So it can become a bit murky.
(32:24):
But the teachings themselves the12 steps or life saving, the
transformative like a baptism.
That format is used incivilizations way before it was
picked up by AA and before theyacquired it from the 12th
century Oxford group, which waslike a branch off of
(32:46):
Christianity.
They got it from somewhere.
This is human beings makemistakes.
We want to be better versions ofourselves.
That's what the 12 steps is.
And that format is incivilizations.
So we, like a baptism, we comethrough it, we repent and we
(33:07):
want to be better,
James (33:08):
yeah.
can you tell us the first coupleof steps that you are in the aa?
James Banks (Guest) (33:14):
Yeah, so step one, you admitted you were
powerless over alcohol or othersubstances and your life have
become unmanageable.
I mean it's pretty easy to, ifyou're at that point, you're
looking at aa, you, your lifehas become pretty much
unmanageable.
Set to keen to believe that apower greater than us can
restore us to sanity.
(33:37):
Okay.
'cause I can't.
My mind and the love of mychild, my mom, my partner, the
people who were like reallydirectly linked to you, inside
your little small hula hoop ofpeople.
They can't change you, but theycan't say, you're drinking,
(33:59):
you're drug using, it's too bad.
If you're going to stop.
We are gonna leave and all that.
None of that works.
None of that works.
If you could just go up and tellsomeone, stop.
They'd be all right.
Are you keen to believe that apower greater than us am I
willing to believe that a powergreater than me can restore me
(34:19):
to sanity?
Yes, I am.
I, that's exactly what I need.
I need restoring to sanitybecause I haven't been seen, for
me.
The steps were easy to digest.
I think if you're still closeenough to your carnage in the
(34:43):
past, it's still like we're inliving distance that you can use
that as a catalyst to moveforward.
A lot of people won't do that.
They won't look back.
I've had a little bit of gracenow.
Life seems to be a little bitbetter.
I'll carry on.
He's going even towards theinevitable.
(35:07):
It's awful.
James (35:08):
Looking back can be painful, but only when you look
back can you see where you havemade mistakes, but also if you
blame others for the things thathappened in your life, you were
(35:30):
given your power away.
So what I was going to bring inas well here was that you can
perhaps own your part, whetherit's something big or small in
what other people's mistakes.
So then suddenly you bring thepower back to you.
James Banks (Guest) (35:46):
Yeah.
Within the 12 steps in the book,it talks about only ever
cleaning your side of thestreet.
There's no point in saying, andit also says, if you step on the
toes of fellows, they willreact.
So have a look for whateveryou've done to me, right?
Let me see how that came about.
(36:09):
So I'm not focusing on whatyou've done to me.
Did I step on your toes in someway?
Have I provoked that?
Is my behavior warranted someoneelse's?
reaction, response, in my case,pretty much all the time.
And I know the people's cases,if you stop and have a look
(36:32):
where was I to blame?
Where was I at fault?
It'll be there somewhere.
But you need, but again, it'sguidance.
from others on how to do thisprocess, how it's done in the
past, and patience as well.
Kind of just, just start thisthing and it's going to be, if I
do all this, then everything'sgoing to be all right because it
(36:52):
doesn't work like that.
There's a long period.
A lot of people don't forget aswell and your life changes in so
many different ways.
James (37:01):
You talked about a good point.
A minute ago about the owningyour part, just your part.
So that brings in the idea ofintrospection.
And how can people start to do alittle bit more of introspection
in their life?
So just for the audience here,what I mean by introspection is
(37:23):
how can you look at yourself andfigure out or journal down Areas
that you can improve on or areasthat you might have done people
wrong that you can own.
So how can people start toreally step into introspecting
their own life?
James Banks (Guest) (37:43):
There's three indispensable it's like a
bullet point that I I stress foranyone that wants to make
changes, right?
And number one is honesty.
And I've sat, we've done groups,I've sat with people and done
groups and just came in and weput honesty on the board and we
(38:03):
spent an hour, like nothingelse.
And that just opens up it.
So for the honesty that isrequired to move forward, I, an
analogy for me is, so thehonesty we're after is pitch
black.
So I was to put my head in abox, complete airtight, no gaps
(38:24):
whatsoever, it's just pitchblack, I can't even see
anything.
If I'm 99.
9.
9 honest that allows Bear inmind it's really sunny outside,
okay?
So that point, point one justpricks the corner and there's a
(38:46):
beam It's a tiny beam, butthere's a beam of light coming
to my box now.
The level of honesty because youcannot kid yourself because
you're the only one who's seeingthat beam.
This is the battle.
It's for yourself.
So if you want to beintrospective You've got to be
honest.
You have to be honest, you'vegot to be open minded this is
(39:09):
number two on the three.
You've got to be open minded.
You've got to be willing.
That's number three.
So if you get given something,like, why don't you take this
wild weekend with all these men?
Why don't you try this ecstaticdance?
Why don't you try this formula?
If your go to is nah no, thenyou've lost.
(39:35):
You can't move forward fromthat, you've got to be willing
to try new things.
You've got to open your mind.
You've got to be honest, and youcan stick to them.
You'll move forward, pen andpaper, write yourself some
honest questions.
What do I not what does I wantto do?
And then if you can't put downwhat it is you don't want to do,
(39:57):
then you're not being honest toyourself.
And there's your sticking pointstraight away.
What was the third one?
James (40:05):
So it's honesty, open mindedness and willingness.
Very good.
Willingness.
Okay.
You put open mindedness andwillingness together.
That's fine.
Yeah.
That makes complete sensebecause I'm very good at
introspection.
One of my strong points tryingto relay sometimes what I know
is quite difficult for peoplewho perhaps aren't quite as
(40:28):
introspective as myself.
And so getting another point ofview and another way of
introspecting is always a goodthing.
James Banks (Guest) (40:38):
Definitely.
Don't go on your own.
You can, you obviously, you cantake your own advice, but at the
beginning, if you're unsure andyou're looking to make changes,
then there's plenty of peopledoubt there.
Obviously, you've gotta findsomeone you can trust.
That going back to what I saidat the beginning, there's always
someone who knows something Idon't.
(40:58):
It's got lived experience ofthat and I need that, there's a
great analogy, which I am goingto put to animation, I suppose
there's friends of mine and afew people who do animation, but
this was told to me a few, agood few years ago.
It's that being an addiction.
It's like being in one of thosereally old fashioned wells, like
(41:19):
a fairy tale, like the circleones with the wheel at the top.
But you're right at the bottom,in the dark, again, like that,
just surrounded by your ownmisery that you've created.
And then there's the gap at thetop and you can just see
sunlight and then people willcome over, your friends will
(41:40):
come over because you're in abad way and they'll pop their
heads over and you'll see themand they'll either throw a
little bag in of something ifyou're lucky, lucky some cans
and or just share a few jokes.
But they're off, and then thedrinking drugs are gone again.
You're still there, doctors willcome, and look over.
You might get, might float alittle prescription down, you
(42:01):
know, it's antidepressants orwhatever.
It's just pointless the amountof people on antidepressants and
still drinking copious amountsof alcohol.
That's another point.
Psychiatrists will come overand, they'll look over and maybe
drop a formula in or somethingfor you to, keep thinking about,
but you're still stuck.
(42:23):
But when another addict oralcoholic, clear and sober, they
can jump in and then initiallyyou think that's a screw now,
because the two of us stuck.
The other one says, no it's not,because I know the way out.
It can shine a little torch onthe foothold here, another one
(42:44):
there, Come with me, hold ontight, trust me, let's go up
together and let's come out.
I know you come out, it's allbright and scary and there's too
many people and you don't knowwhere to put your hands and, but
that's another journey, that'sanother journey.
But initially we need, I needsomeone to show me the way out,
show me how they've done it.
(43:05):
And then I go, because I, we allknow how to do lots of things,
we're very capable, but when wedon't know how to do being
stupid, doing it for me, selfconscious, being judged, all
these entail judgments come up,but when someone else is
carrying me and showing me it, Ican relax a little bit then and
(43:29):
say thank you,
And then
I can start helping others from the little
journey I've done that theydon't know, pull them forward,
and then people pull me forward,and I keep pulling them forward,
and then so on, until we'relike, They're out of sight.
James (43:47):
So in regards to emotions like shame and guilt, what kind
of role do they play inaddictions?
And if somebody does have shameand guilt, how can they move
past them?
James Banks (Guest) (44:03):
So in my experience again, I'll try and
only speak for myself.
The formula is in within the 12steps.
You have to confront, confrontbeing like a strong word.
You have to But you've got tolook at what it is that you're
guilty, your guilt's come from,your shame is.
There's no point in just, it'sthere, let's look at it
(44:27):
correctly, let's figure thisout, don't avoid it.
Yes, I have done, I have been inso many situations, I have done
so many things where people willjust go, and I mentioned them,
like I've lost control of mybowels.
I was a fully functioningalcoholic, alcohol dependent for
(44:48):
a long time Drinking thenastiest cider.
It's just goes right throughyour guts right through, even
the smell of It's like thatfrosty jack.
It's just So i've done thingsthat people are just die of
shame even when I speak aboutthem, But if you can't go back
and look at it it's thatresentment or that, that
(45:10):
emotion.
So it's that motion like it'sin, in circular motion, it's
emotion, isn't it?
So it's on.
If I don't go look at it, everytime I think about it, I'm going
to feel it.
but the more I do it, the lessand less it gets.
Do you know what I mean?
I think there's people around.
Yeah,
James (45:27):
that relates because as, as long as you have shame and
guilt and you do nothing aboutit, every time you, something
like that happens, it's going tohave complete power over you.
It's going to feel, it's goingto feel a gut wrench maybe in
your stomach or that sense of,oh, I'm going to hide away.
(45:49):
But if you approach it.
and look at it in a deep way,then it loses its power.
Perfect example is you can sithere there and talk about all
this and not have a not flinch.
And I feel as though I'm verysimilar with regards to myself
with the idea of porn beforeperhaps six, 10 weeks ago, I
(46:14):
couldn't mention the wordwithout feeling guilt and shame.
But now that I've, I'm lookingdeep into it.
That guilt and shame no longerhas any power.
I can talk about it and it mightbe a little bit of embarrassment
but that guilt and shame ofdoing it is gone which is why I
can talk about it so openly.
James Banks (Guest) (46:34):
Yeah and then once you start talking
about it openly you realiseyou're helping others and you're
moving away.
And you're moving away.
You go, Oh my God, that's all itwas.
One of the big learnings for meat the beginning of in recovery
is someone actually said to me,do you know what?
You're not that important.
I was like, oh what, it's no,people will, people aren't asked
(47:00):
really about what's going on foryou.
You are it's shame for you andmaybe close circle or something
like that, but people have gottheir own shit going on and
people are going to be gettingon with their own lives.
And they're not going to bedwelling on what you did or
didn't do or what, how you feelbecause of this and that.
It's yes, today's headlines istomorrow's fish and chip paper
(47:21):
wrapper, it's just, it doesn'tmatter.
So once I got over that, it didtake me a little bit of, oh, you
cheeky bastard.
Do you know who I think I am?
James (47:34):
So for those people who perhaps are alone, And are going
through addictions at thismoment in time, and are willing
to step maybe are willing totake that first step.
What can they do?
James Banks (Guest) (47:49):
Great question.
Reach out, have to reach out.
I have been working within thisfield since 2013, 2014.
I have never seen, come acrossanyone that's managed to pull
themself out of it on their own.
I have witnessed some reallysturdy people that have pulled
(48:14):
themselves to places wherethey're no longer doing as bad
as what they did previously.
But unless you unearth, go backto source, the inevitability of
creating that same problem againand again will happen.
(48:35):
Reach out.
I would say reach out.
Reach out, find someone, reachout, open up, we're only as,
we're only as safe as oursecrets.
That's it.
And they can only flourish inthe dark.
It's like mushrooms.
They'll grow in the dark.
(48:56):
But you say you feed them shit,keep them in the dark and then
they flourish.
That's what happens.
James (49:04):
I don't know about you, but I find with, I, I know I
have the such porn and socialmedia addictions, for me quite
often it's to do with numbingnumbing pain.
How can somebody lean?
And learn to sit with this pain.
Because I think sometimes withinpain, there's this discomfort.
So how can people start toreally sit with that discomfort?
James Banks (G (49:28):
Compassionately, I feel, to be around others who
understand, is the beginning ofbeing able to sit with it, so
you can see others.
When now you're talking aboutporn addiction, coming away from
it, and the embarrassment andthe, or the less embarrassment
(49:48):
and, Again, as I said, whenwe're looking towards I wanna be
him, someone's looking towardswanting to be us.
So it's that collective, thatsupport, because we're all one,
no one does things that Ihaven't done before.
We've all done porn addiction.
We've all, not addiction.
We all go to the toilet.
(50:09):
We all do the same things.
We're all one.
James (50:14):
So the key message is to reach out.
And define a community who canhelp and support you through it.
James Banks (Guest) (50:20):
Connection, Definitely.
James (50:24):
So for those who don't know you, how can they?
What do you do and how can theyget in contact with you?
James Banks (Guest) (50:32):
So I will help people online.
You can find me atjamesbanksaddiction at gmail.
com.
Jamesbanksaddiction onInstagram.
People in Belfast, I run a freesupport group every two weeks.
Just inviting anyone to comealong and start the journey.
I work with people online, ifpeople want to work with me, I
(50:54):
can work with online.
Do discount rates, do all that.
My style is I always encouragepeople to get out and find the
community, their tribe.
I'm not about working withpeople.
Like a cash cow.
I don't want to work with peoplefor money.
That's never been my objective.
(51:14):
In recovery, I want people toget better and just find their
own tribe.
And they're out there, no matterwhere you are.
There's people out there,there's always AA and CA, but
there's men's groups, there'swomen's groups, there's support
groups, sports groups, there'ssinging, there's ecstatic dance,
there's so many differentthings.
Because the addiction is justIt's just the, it's the lowest
(51:36):
form of the Russian doll.
That's what that is.
It's that or it's whatever youdo.
It's that I'm just encouragingyou to come out and coming out.
This is where you learn how tobe all the things you can't do
in life.
You learn how to do them in safeenvironments.
Eventually you become fullyRussian.
So you'd be that vision, whichcan still go down.
(51:58):
If you start being dishonest,that's the big one.
It comes out.
But you could be honest and thencome back home.
But if people wanna work withme, they can find me at James
Bank Station.
That's fine.
But that's how, that's my styleof your life.
Yeah.
Encourage people to go and goget it.
Get it in the world.
Don't sit with me.
You know what I mean?
I'll give you, I'll bring you tothe place where you can do it on
(52:20):
your own.
And then take the stabilizersoff and go.
Come back again if you need me.
Go.
James (52:27):
Yeah.
James Banks (Guest) (52:28):
That's what life is.
James (52:30):
Thank you James.
Thank you, James.
In this week's episode, we talkabout addiction and how
conscious awareness is crucialto change how childhood trauma
tends to be the root ofaddiction and how you can
explore this, the power ofcommunity, and how connection is
the key to addiction.
And leaning into resistance anddiscomfort and doing what you
(00:23):
least want to do is where thegrowth happens.
Welcome to Man (00:28):
A Quest to Find Meaning, where we help men
navigate modern life, find theirtrue purpose, and redefine
manhood.
I'm your host, James, and eachweek, inspiring guests share
their journeys of overcomingfear Embracing vulnerability and
finding success.
(00:48):
From experts to everyday heroes.
Get practical advice andpowerful insights.
Struggling with career,relationships or personal
growth?
We've got you covered.
Join us on Man Quest to FindMeaning.
Now, let's dive in.
James (01:05):
Good morning, James.
Tell me about yourself.
James Banks (Guest) (01:10):
Where do we even start with that question?
In the terms of us meeting onthis podcast, so myself now, is
someone that has been inrecovery for 12 to 13 years.
So I've removed myself fromalcohol, primarily alcohol,
(01:31):
cocaine, and any other drugsthat came with it.
And after a lifetime of abuse.
So this version currently of menow is someone who's in recovery
and does his very best to beaware of his behaviors on the
(01:52):
outside world and on myrelationships opposed to me.
So I am trying very hard to be aconscious being.
That's who I am.
James (02:05):
So let's start there, actually, because I'm interested
because two I feel when you'vegot addictions or habits which
perhaps particularly aren'tparticularly good for you, to
become conscious of them.
Can be a big ask for a lot ofpeople.
How did you start to becomeconscious of your addictions?
James Banks (Guest) (02:29):
I started drinking and using substances
like at a young age.
Not addictively, not toodamaging.
But it was like from 13, likedrinking.
Cider in the park, all that.
(02:50):
Smoking spliffs.
LSD, 14, 15.
And it's been a while since I'vespoken about this.
Because when I stopped drinkingand doing what I was doing, my
daughter was 13, which is theage that I was thinking when I
was drinking in a park up to nogood.
(03:13):
Smoking cannabis LSD.
I was thinking, wow, 13, that'snot really an age to be
experimenting the way I was, butthat's the way it was.
Where I was and where it is fora lot of people, but being
consciously aware of myaddictions, I don't think that
was ever the case.
(03:34):
I knew it was a problem for along time.
So I stopped, I'm now 49.
I stopped drinking when I was36.
Yeah.
For the last, oh God, from mytwenties.
It was a problem from my, yeah,late teens, twenties.
(03:55):
So I've been aware that I had aproblem for a long time.
A long time.
Didn't do anything about itthough, till I was 36.
James (04:02):
Regards to you now every day.
'cause what I find is, I'verealized that I've got
addictions to social media.
I've got addictions to porn asan example, and.
But it's one thing going fromdoing it automatically to
(04:24):
stepping into that versionyourself where you actually, you
start to realize that, oh, evenbefore you, you actually do it,
that you're about to do it.
What was it that actually led tothat point where you decided,
you know what, I'm putting itcompletely?
James Banks (Guest) (04:46):
So there was lots of, there was lots of
reasons why, physically itweren't happening.
My body was giving up, my bodywas giving up.
I was like, I was bloated.
It was yellow.
I was physically, withdrawn alot of times, DTs and all that.
So physically it weren'tsustainable, so that was, it
gave him emotionally.
(05:07):
One of the big turning pointsfor me was was the damage it was
doing to me mum.
That I was physically watchingher.
Because I'd put a lot of it onher.
I lived about three, four milesaway.
But I'd burn all my bridges andI'd spend all my money and burn
the mines.
I'm a grown, I'm a grown man.
You know what I mean?
I've been working and all, I wasa chef for a long time, which
(05:31):
didn't really help with thedrinking because we used to
drink in the kitchen and thenwe'd drink after work and so on
and all that.
But I used to go down to mymum's for food, that's what it
was really, and a bit of respiteaway from my flat because it was
dirty, so I'd go down.
But then, towards the end, Iwas, I was manipulating her to
(05:53):
for money.
Saying, if I don't, if I don'tget her a drink, this can
happen, it's really dangerous,because it was alcohol
dependent.
This was true, but it wasmanipulation, and it was, that's
what it was.
But my mum came home one morningand I was all like that.
And she refused to go to shop toto buy alcohol, which I'd never
(06:16):
asked her to do before, butshe'd never refused me anything
ever.
And that was a, that was amoment, even while I was, Under
the influence, DTs and all thatwas a moment was like, I have
pushed this, whatever this is,this lifestyle to the, to its
(06:37):
very edge.
And for my mum to turn aroundand say no to me, there was a
sign that this has come to, youcan't even get that person who
would do anything for you to dothat.
It's it's over.
It is over.
And there was an internal.
change there and then thathelped me.
(06:59):
It didn't, it wasn't instant.
You know what I mean?
I was still an alcoholic and anaddict and I hadn't sorted my
life out at all, but there wassomething in there that made me
go ah no.
So there was a decline then anda look towards recovery, which
you didn't know.
(07:20):
I knew one person from my field,It would come in, gone into
Sorted recovery like into thesegroups in Leal City Center that
like would do arts and maybelike day GA and computers and
stuff like that.
So we knew it was on thehorizon, and that was like the
beginning.
That was like 2000,
(07:41):
2012, 2012, 2013.
James (07:47):
First thing congratulations.
for so many years of being soberand breaking addictions.
With regards to the people youhave worked with, what do you
believe is the root cause ofaddiction?
James Banks (Guest) (08:01):
Or
James (08:04):
is there one, shall I say?
Or are there many?
James Banks (Guest) (08:10):
So my, my, my outlook, my, my ways around
recovery have changed massivelyover the years.
Over the years.
So I came through, I went torehab for 12 weeks.
And whilst in rehab, we wereencouraged, my rehab was a
Monday to Friday, nine to five.
(08:31):
So you were locked in ish forthose times.
And then of an evening you wererequired to go to a meeting, a
mutual aid meeting.
So that would be AlcoholicsAnonymous, Cocaine Anonymous,
Narcotics Anonymous.
So within those 12 weeks Istarted going to meetings.
Which was the transformative.
(08:51):
catapult for me, just the 12steps.
That's what changed me.
So I was very studious.
I was completely engaged in theprogram.
I lived from the book ofAlcoholics Anonymous.
Every single word in it spoke tome, for me.
(09:13):
I've done it to the letter.
It says if you don't want todrink and use again, then follow
these principles.
And I've done that because Ididn't want, not want to go
back.
Fast forward again five yearsago.
I went down plant medicine.
Iboga initially ayahuasca, acouple of sittings, mushrooms,
(09:37):
yeah, cannabis, psychedelic.
I've used all these modules tofurther my understanding of
myself and the world, notnecessarily addiction.
I've come more towards GabaMati.
If any of you are familiar withhis work, or Gab and Mate, as
(09:59):
they call him in Liverpool, Gaband Mate.
He's, he will say, show me anaddict, an alcoholic, and I will
show you someone who didn't havea happy childhood.
And I initially, I was like,nah, not having that.
I had a happy childhood, I hadthis and this.
(10:22):
And there was a friend of ours,she's a doctor.
And she trains in CompassionateInquiry, which is Gabba Maté's
module.
And the opening question for theCompassionate Inquiry, which I
knew this because I've workedwith this woman and was on a
retreat with her and it took thefull hit, so I knew it was
coming.
So the opening question is,Simply tell me about your happy
(10:49):
childhood.
So I knew that was coming And Irushed we live up on the north
coast here you can't see interms of showing up to Windsor.
There's the atlantic ocean.
It's amazing, but it doesn't goany further so we're rushing
back up for this appointmentwith this woman that I was sat
(11:09):
down on zoom again and all thezoom gremlins couldn't get in
and She said okay james.
Come on.
Just close yourself breathe withme.
I'm into the So I sat down, andshe said, Tell me about your
happy childhood.
(11:30):
So I'm inside my head, justwent, Let me get a I'm on a, an
old fashioned workman's desk,that with all the numbers, that.
But all the, like a roller deskand I had all these images going
around my brain like, and Icried.
Something came in from in there.
You can't see where the press,I'm writing my soul up like, it
(11:52):
came from there.
This sadness.
I was uncontrollable.
I didn't have one.
I didn't have one.
And so that was the beginning ofme.
understanding trauma and earlyevents.
(12:17):
I think we spoke about this whenI was walking the dog.
It's about my dad left when Iwas, I can't remember, I always
say about two.
I don't even know if that'sright.
So I can't remember him beingthere, but I spent a lifetime
searching.
The stories I got told comingdown, shaving, there was a
shaver, a little bit of tissuepaper on my face.
I was copying, we weren't there.
(12:38):
I used to go out, we lived on ahousing estate, a bit like
Shameless, a little city centrejust on the outskirts.
I used to go knock for fellas,other dads, and they'd come in
and go, Jimmy there, I'm gonnado that.
I used to go and sit in thebutchers, used to go to work
men.
I was searching for my dad, doyou know what I mean?
(12:59):
I was missing something.
And my template was a lot ofolive.
From a long line of alcoholics,pub alcoholics, whatever, it
doesn't matter.
So I became him, even though weweren't there, because that was
my genetic template.
But I do believe, I mean, I canspeak for myself, I can only
(13:23):
ever speak for myself.
Obviously it's hard to ignorethe hundreds of people, maybe
more, thousands of people I'vesat and worked with that have
all come, I can't generalise,but childhood trauma, you would
not do these things if you werehappy, stable
and
cared for and loved and you just wouldn't,
(13:43):
so early childhood trauma hasthe massive impact on
James (13:49):
people's self esteem.
Do you find that's quite acommon thing with the people
that you work with?
James Banks (Guest) (13:56):
I can pretty much go straight there
with people.
I can buy, I can do, I can workwith people however they want to
work, but if you want to gostraight to the source, there's
a great, there's a great sayingthe treasures we seek.
Yeah, hidden by the dragons wefear, so there's that as well,
(14:17):
if you, with addictions, if youwant to move away from it, then
be prepared to do the things youdon't want to do.
And I can say to people, what isit you don't want to do to get
clean and sober?
In those terms what are thethings you don't want to do to
stop drinking?
So what do you, and then I gookay, that's what, that's what
you need to do then.
James (14:37):
Funny thing is the last couple of days I read this small
piece within this work that I'mdoing and it said that for us to
get the biggest transformationor the biggest growth We've
gotta do the things that weassist the most.
And so the sense in there, itdoesn't necessarily have to be
within diction, it could bewithin the business or
(14:58):
relationships or any area of alife, but there's so many things
that we resist.
And the funny thing is, Iyesterday I got back onto Bumble
and I've got a match.
And suddenly all theseinsecurities came in thinking
you're not good enough kind ofthing and all these different
stuff.
(15:18):
And what I realized was that wasbang on.
That's my resistance is becausequite often when my insecurities
pop up, I pull back and don't doanything about it.
So it was that realization thatin order to pass that.
to get through that resistance,I've got to hit that head on and
(15:38):
I've got to do somethingdifferent what I wouldn't
normally wouldn't do.
And so it's conversationinteraction.
James Banks (Guest) (15:46):
Yeah, most definitely.
Just be prepared to do thethings you don't want to do.
That's where that's so well.
So my role in, in recovery, Iwent From rehab straight into
volunteering for every, becauseit was all the poor city center.
So it was like volunteering withthe homeless, the YMCA any
(16:08):
mental health addiction rehabs,detox units, all that.
Do you know that?
And then I went into thebecoming a grief worker.
Sort of lost my, I was sayingthat, what were we saying there,
what were we talking about atthe beginning?
James (16:25):
We were talking about resistance and stepping into
resistance and about you goingand volunteering.
James Banks (Guest) (16:30):
That's right.
That's right.
So I'd say to people, whateverit is that you don't want to do,
that's what it is we need to do.
So everyone that came into mygroup, or we've done assessments
on for every alcoholic andaddict.
And this is like a 10 yearcareer.
Everyone's put down anxiety anddepression, right?
(16:52):
The thing is with anxiety, thisis what was thinking about, is
that, and the resistance, likebeing on Bumble, is that I've
got a level of where my anxietywill come up to like water
coming up a beach, leaving amark, leave a little mark, and
(17:12):
then it'll go back down.
But if it comes up, To where Iknow it comes up to and I just
allow it to sink back again.
I haven't moved.
I haven't moved forward.
So the next time that matchcomes on Bumble, I'm going to
get up to that point.
I'm going to go and let it go.
(17:35):
But what I encourage and what Iencourage for myself, let it
come up and walk through withit.
I go against it, because I sayto people, no one's died from
anxiety.
Not that I know of.
It's not physically you'vegotten overly anxious and
created the massive cardiacarrest.
It's just your body telling youthat there's something not quite
(17:58):
right here.
Have a little nose and you cango, do you know what?
There's nothing happening apartfrom what I'm thinking.
Let's go through it.
James (18:09):
At the end of the day, it's just energy, isn't it?
Anxiety, emotions, just energy.
So if you just allow, almost sitwith that energy and just
breathe through it, that energyis going to dissipate.
And I find, because I must admitmy general feeling can quite
often be anxiousness.
(18:31):
But at the same time, I don'tallow it to affect me because I
allow myself to breathe throughit.
And then I allow myself to feelthe love that I have for myself,
and for the people around me.
And that allows me to stepthrough it.
Rather than, for me to overtakeyou.
I saw also in the same piecethat quite often when people
(18:52):
have emotions, they allow theemotions to control what they
do.
Rather than, emotions are there,we should be allowing ourselves
to use our emotions in a healthyway.
Rather than allowing theemotions to use us.
So if you've got, say forexample, I saw on TV that
(19:13):
there's 200, there's 2 millionpeople of sick from work.
And a lot of them they'll sayit's anxiety attacks.
But if you allow yourself to gointo that anxiety and to feel
that rather than allowing it touse you and to perhaps keep you
in your house, step into it,breathe, and then just A small,
(19:37):
tiny step of what the anxiety iscoming up with.
James Banks (Guest) (19:42):
This is exactly what I what I come up
when I was teaching people ingroups, is that line.
You're only ever going to get tothere and then go back, but get
up to there.
And I used to say to people, Iwould hold, I will hold your
hand.
Genuinely or figuratively ormetaphorically to get you
(20:05):
across, right?
Because you're caught inrecovery.
So with me working mymotivational or my experience or
my skills, whatever you want ingroup, all I'm doing is, at
best, I can lead people to whatwe call a bridge of reason.
(20:25):
So I'll take them from one,we'll stay in this pen, and
Right, and I'll bring them overto a bridge and I'll go look at
that over there, isn't thatamazing?
Look at that greenery, look atthat peace, look at that fun
that's possible, look at thatfuture.
People are terrified to crossover the bridge into sobriety
(20:46):
into unknown, into, This oh,newness.
So it's a bridge of reason, butthat's your anxiety, that's,
that stops you from crossing.
But it's you know what, no.
Once you come over you'll be allright.
Even just a little step, getonto the bridge, come back, and
so on.
(21:07):
So you are, we know this and,but it's took me so many years.
We know this, but for theaverage person, it's like the
body is in control, like theemotion.
No.
I feel it.
It must be real.
I think it.
It must be
James (21:24):
real.
No.
So how can people take that first step to realize that
their emotions are controllingthem?
James Banks (Guest) (21:33):
I'm a great believer and not just a great
believer, right?
Connection, connection.
We don't know if I don't knowhow to do something, I'm going
to look at someone.
This is how I've managed to getwhere I am.
I looked at someone else who'ddone what it is I needed to do.
And I copied that and I'd doneit.
(21:53):
So when I was surrounded bypeople to choose from, to look
at, to emulate, ape, we're justapes.
That's what we do.
But a species that can learn bywatching others as well, and
feeling safe and connected, notfeeling like a feel.
'cause other people have madethe mistakes for me, I can say,
(22:14):
ah, do you know what I mean?
I'm not gonna do that because hedone that.
But he told me, never shownanything they gave me.
We had this.
Conversation.
I was never shown how to be aman, how to be whatever that
means, to be courageous.
And I know women can becourageous, but I never seen it
in myself.
How to emulate and do all thesethings.
(22:35):
I had a lot, I was starting fromscratch in a lot of areas.
James (22:39):
Yeah.
I've, I, since last, 2022, Iwent to the Mankind Project,
have you heard of the MankindProject?
I did my warrior training backthen.
And, basically, you are thrownamongst 40 other people.
And you were held by 40 othermen who have been through the
(23:02):
process and within that weekend,the warrior training, you get to
witness yourself and others gothrough a process of completely
transforming their lives fromunderstanding who they are.
(23:23):
Allowing yourself to go intoyour emotional self.
You're able to look other men inthe eyes and really connect for
the very first time.
And within that weekend, I hadquite a profound realization
that when you are around otherpeople who, where, or where you
(23:44):
want to be, there's a sense ofreally stepping into that
version of yourself.
And so you're right, having thatconnection with people who are
where you want to be, but alsotaking yourself away from
(24:04):
perhaps your environment thatyou're already in and stepping
in, just seeing perhaps a personin the distance, how he's
acting.
And so I think it's even moreimportant that us who are more
conscious of these these traits,these addictions, everything
that happens in our normallives, we can really step into
who we're meant to be so that wecan help others to do the same
(24:27):
at the same time.
James Banks (Guest) (24:28):
Exactly.
Everyone is our teacher,everyone.
So all the ceremonies I've beento, all the courses and the
retreats and, anything like theself help programs and whatever,
every single person I comeacross.
is there to teach me something.
(24:50):
Everyone knows something Idon't.
Everyone.
I never, I will always learnfrom everyone, and I need to get
on my own way.
That that's the big thing.
Get out my own way.
So I've done those, thearchetypal training, the men's
groups, and I can watch someoneelse.
(25:14):
maybe dance in the distance abit more freely and not self
conscious, it's only me thatjudges me.
I'm not judging him, but he'sgiving me permission to dance as
well, and then I'm off then.
And whilst I'm doing That loopof all this, me watching him
(25:35):
dance and going, no, it's allright.
I can dance too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Someone else is watching megoing, you know what maybe I can
do what they're doing, causethat's how it works.
Always the, like in the gym,you're always looking at the.
You want to be someone overthere.
Someone else is watching you.
They want to be where you arebecause they haven't got that
(25:58):
far, and that's how it works.
And it's only me that's in theway.
Yeah,
James (26:04):
it's nicely put.
We are our biggest block.
It's funny thing was I was atdance a couple of Sundays ago.
And it's a static dance, andwithin that static dance, there
was, I was just dancing there'sno tomorrow.
I don't know what it is aboutthe music, but I literally just
(26:25):
lose myself, and I dance like acomplete nutter.
That's the best way to put it, acomplete nutter.
But, you, when you look around,what I'm noticing is that people
are smiling at how I dance,because I'm so free.
And, it's that realization thatin that moment you are allowing
(26:51):
Other people to be just as freeas you and then there'll be
people who I look up to who canallow me to be as completely
free as them.
James Banks (Guest) (27:05):
Yeah, a lot of goals.
Yeah.
and all it goes.
So I wouldn't be one of thosepeople smiling at you dancing so
freely.
That's one of the restrictionsI've still attached to myself.
You wouldn't know it in publicor if you're in an ecstatic
dance together, you wouldn'tknow it, but I still restrict.
(27:29):
Myself, and then I'd watchbecause we've got where we are
in They're on the north coastpost, but we've got like a space
in belfast Called body consciouson a place called botanic
avenue, which is just like thestudents area of belfast.
It's a real cool It's a nicearea like botanic park at the
end, but we're all events inthere, and one of them is
(27:53):
contact improv, I'm sure you,but there's a girl in there
she's a musician, she's contactimprov, she's singers, she's a
practitioner, a body worker, andshe's so talented, but I watch
her do all these things andshe's just, I think maybe she
does a little bit, you know whatI mean?
But it's just like no Fs given,that is like freedom.
(28:16):
That is freedom, because noone's asked.
No one's asked apart frommyself.
I love it.
James (28:24):
It's taken me, it took me, it's taken me three years to
get to this point where I can,and there's still Now and again,
get into my head, but it's along process of really going to
the events like this.
And so it's this tails quitenicely back into addictions,
because obviously, once youstart to overcome addictions,
(28:46):
it's not going to be a straightpath.
There's going to be bumps in theroad.
And It's this idea that if I usethe idea of watching porn, I
might have four or five, maybe aweek of not doing anything, and
then I'll get thrown back intoit all.
And that's okay, because that'spart of the process, and it's
(29:10):
becoming conscious in thatmoment, maybe after it's
happened, that, um, what was itthat actually made me do that?
And then
eventually you'll just keep moving on to the next
thing.
And I've come to, I'm going todo Graham Waterfield's course on
sexual energy and all that kindof stuff.
(29:31):
Cause I feel that's the nextstage for me.
But it's that realization thatwhen you hit a bump.
You, it's okay, but it's aboutgetting back up again and going
again.
So it's quite easy at that pointto say, do you know what?
I can't, I'm going to stop.
I can't be bothered.
I've fallen.
I'm going to stop.
But as a baby, if you fall overwhen you're trying to walk, are
(29:52):
you going to stop?
No, you're going to carry on.
So why does adults, why do westop when we should be carrying
a train again and again?
James Banks (Guest) (30:00):
I feel that if we're doing any of this on
our own, if we have identifiedthe problem, and then try and
figure it out on our own, thenthat seems to be the pattern,
because if we haven't identifiedwhy we're doing this
(30:20):
subjectively and brought inother people to look at it and
that full 360 trained people aswell.
Then we're never going to getout of the loop that we put
ourselves in.
It's like one of the Einsteinand so on said, we can't think
ourselves out of a problem thatour minds has created.
(30:42):
The same mind can't come outthat created the problem.
We need to be around others.
James (30:50):
So that's why AA and other ones and other groups are
so powerful.
Definitely.
Definitely.
James Banks (Guest) (30:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And not all, quite contentiousfor some people, AA and CA
they'll always go on about it'sreligious.
It's not.
The book was wrote by anatheist, an agnostic, and it
clearly states in the book thatit uses the word God as a term
(31:19):
of convenience for you tochange, talk about the spiritual
experience that Carl Jung spokeabout in order to be
transformative with analcoholic.
When someone else with otherbehavioral issues, you have to
have a spiritual experience, andhe doesn't talk about a
religious one, he talks about aspiritual experience, where you
(31:40):
see things, instead of looking,like, where you become
conscious, instead of justlooking out, where you're
looking, or sorry, you'relooking in at how everything's
affecting you.
Like that, your eyes need toturn and start looking
completely, how things areaffecting others, how that
internally is affecting outside,as we're in, so we're out.
(32:03):
Not everyone in AA is well.
That's the, that's the nature ofthe, not everyone in AA or CA or
NA understands the program thescripture of your life the rules
that people are playing by.
So it becomes dogmatic andpeople bring their own nonsense
in.
So it can become a bit murky.
(32:24):
But the teachings themselves the12 steps or life saving, the
transformative like a baptism.
That format is used incivilizations way before it was
picked up by AA and before theyacquired it from the 12th
century Oxford group, which waslike a branch off of
(32:46):
Christianity.
They got it from somewhere.
This is human beings makemistakes.
We want to be better versions ofourselves.
That's what the 12 steps is.
And that format is incivilizations.
So we, like a baptism, we comethrough it, we repent and we
(33:07):
want to be better,
James (33:08):
yeah.
can you tell us the first coupleof steps that you are in the aa?
James Banks (Guest) (33:14):
Yeah, so step one, you admitted you were
powerless over alcohol or othersubstances and your life have
become unmanageable.
I mean it's pretty easy to, ifyou're at that point, you're
looking at aa, you, your lifehas become pretty much
unmanageable.
Set to keen to believe that apower greater than us can
restore us to sanity.
(33:37):
Okay.
'cause I can't.
My mind and the love of mychild, my mom, my partner, the
people who were like reallydirectly linked to you, inside
your little small hula hoop ofpeople.
They can't change you, but theycan't say, you're drinking,
(33:59):
you're drug using, it's too bad.
If you're going to stop.
We are gonna leave and all that.
None of that works.
None of that works.
If you could just go up and tellsomeone, stop.
They'd be all right.
Are you keen to believe that apower greater than us am I
willing to believe that a powergreater than me can restore me
(34:19):
to sanity?
Yes, I am.
I, that's exactly what I need.
I need restoring to sanitybecause I haven't been seen, for
me.
The steps were easy to digest.
I think if you're still closeenough to your carnage in the
(34:43):
past, it's still like we're inliving distance that you can use
that as a catalyst to moveforward.
A lot of people won't do that.
They won't look back.
I've had a little bit of gracenow.
Life seems to be a little bitbetter.
I'll carry on.
He's going even towards theinevitable.
(35:07):
It's awful.
James (35:08):
Looking back can be painful, but only when you look
back can you see where you havemade mistakes, but also if you
blame others for the things thathappened in your life, you were
(35:30):
given your power away.
So what I was going to bring inas well here was that you can
perhaps own your part, whetherit's something big or small in
what other people's mistakes.
So then suddenly you bring thepower back to you.
James Banks (Guest) (35:46):
Yeah.
Within the 12 steps in the book,it talks about only ever
cleaning your side of thestreet.
There's no point in saying, andit also says, if you step on the
toes of fellows, they willreact.
So have a look for whateveryou've done to me, right?
Let me see how that came about.
(36:09):
So I'm not focusing on whatyou've done to me.
Did I step on your toes in someway?
Have I provoked that?
Is my behavior warranted someoneelse's?
reaction, response, in my case,pretty much all the time.
And I know the people's cases,if you stop and have a look
(36:32):
where was I to blame?
Where was I at fault?
It'll be there somewhere.
But you need, but again, it'sguidance.
from others on how to do thisprocess, how it's done in the
past, and patience as well.
Kind of just, just start thisthing and it's going to be, if I
do all this, then everything'sgoing to be all right because it
(36:52):
doesn't work like that.
There's a long period.
A lot of people don't forget aswell and your life changes in so
many different ways.
James (37:01):
You talked about a good point.
A minute ago about the owningyour part, just your part.
So that brings in the idea ofintrospection.
And how can people start to do alittle bit more of introspection
in their life?
So just for the audience here,what I mean by introspection is
(37:23):
how can you look at yourself andfigure out or journal down Areas
that you can improve on or areasthat you might have done people
wrong that you can own.
So how can people start toreally step into introspecting
their own life?
James Banks (Guest) (37:43):
There's three indispensable it's like a
bullet point that I I stress foranyone that wants to make
changes, right?
And number one is honesty.
And I've sat, we've done groups,I've sat with people and done
groups and just came in and weput honesty on the board and we
(38:03):
spent an hour, like nothingelse.
And that just opens up it.
So for the honesty that isrequired to move forward, I, an
analogy for me is, so thehonesty we're after is pitch
black.
So I was to put my head in abox, complete airtight, no gaps
(38:24):
whatsoever, it's just pitchblack, I can't even see
anything.
If I'm 99.
9.
9 honest that allows Bear inmind it's really sunny outside,
okay?
So that point, point one justpricks the corner and there's a
(38:46):
beam It's a tiny beam, butthere's a beam of light coming
to my box now.
The level of honesty because youcannot kid yourself because
you're the only one who's seeingthat beam.
This is the battle.
It's for yourself.
So if you want to beintrospective You've got to be
honest.
You have to be honest, you'vegot to be open minded this is
(39:09):
number two on the three.
You've got to be open minded.
You've got to be willing.
That's number three.
So if you get given something,like, why don't you take this
wild weekend with all these men?
Why don't you try this ecstaticdance?
Why don't you try this formula?
If your go to is nah no, thenyou've lost.
(39:35):
You can't move forward fromthat, you've got to be willing
to try new things.
You've got to open your mind.
You've got to be honest, and youcan stick to them.
You'll move forward, pen andpaper, write yourself some
honest questions.
What do I not what does I wantto do?
And then if you can't put downwhat it is you don't want to do,
(39:57):
then you're not being honest toyourself.
And there's your sticking pointstraight away.
What was the third one?
James (40:05):
So it's honesty, open mindedness and willingness.
Very good.
Willingness.
Okay.
You put open mindedness andwillingness together.
That's fine.
Yeah.
That makes complete sensebecause I'm very good at
introspection.
One of my strong points tryingto relay sometimes what I know
is quite difficult for peoplewho perhaps aren't quite as
(40:28):
introspective as myself.
And so getting another point ofview and another way of
introspecting is always a goodthing.
James Banks (Guest) (40:38):
Definitely.
Don't go on your own.
You can, you obviously, you cantake your own advice, but at the
beginning, if you're unsure andyou're looking to make changes,
then there's plenty of peopledoubt there.
Obviously, you've gotta findsomeone you can trust.
That going back to what I saidat the beginning, there's always
someone who knows something Idon't.
(40:58):
It's got lived experience ofthat and I need that, there's a
great analogy, which I am goingto put to animation, I suppose
there's friends of mine and afew people who do animation, but
this was told to me a few, agood few years ago.
It's that being an addiction.
It's like being in one of thosereally old fashioned wells, like
(41:19):
a fairy tale, like the circleones with the wheel at the top.
But you're right at the bottom,in the dark, again, like that,
just surrounded by your ownmisery that you've created.
And then there's the gap at thetop and you can just see
sunlight and then people willcome over, your friends will
(41:40):
come over because you're in abad way and they'll pop their
heads over and you'll see themand they'll either throw a
little bag in of something ifyou're lucky, lucky some cans
and or just share a few jokes.
But they're off, and then thedrinking drugs are gone again.
You're still there, doctors willcome, and look over.
You might get, might float alittle prescription down, you
(42:01):
know, it's antidepressants orwhatever.
It's just pointless the amountof people on antidepressants and
still drinking copious amountsof alcohol.
That's another point.
Psychiatrists will come overand, they'll look over and maybe
drop a formula in or somethingfor you to, keep thinking about,
but you're still stuck.
(42:23):
But when another addict oralcoholic, clear and sober, they
can jump in and then initiallyyou think that's a screw now,
because the two of us stuck.
The other one says, no it's not,because I know the way out.
It can shine a little torch onthe foothold here, another one
(42:44):
there, Come with me, hold ontight, trust me, let's go up
together and let's come out.
I know you come out, it's allbright and scary and there's too
many people and you don't knowwhere to put your hands and, but
that's another journey, that'sanother journey.
But initially we need, I needsomeone to show me the way out,
show me how they've done it.
(43:05):
And then I go, because I, we allknow how to do lots of things,
we're very capable, but when wedon't know how to do being
stupid, doing it for me, selfconscious, being judged, all
these entail judgments come up,but when someone else is
carrying me and showing me it, Ican relax a little bit then and
(43:29):
say thank you,
And then
I can start helping others from the little
journey I've done that theydon't know, pull them forward,
and then people pull me forward,and I keep pulling them forward,
and then so on, until we'relike, They're out of sight.
James (43:47):
So in regards to emotions like shame and guilt, what kind
of role do they play inaddictions?
And if somebody does have shameand guilt, how can they move
past them?
James Banks (Guest) (44:03):
So in my experience again, I'll try and
only speak for myself.
The formula is in within the 12steps.
You have to confront, confrontbeing like a strong word.
You have to But you've got tolook at what it is that you're
guilty, your guilt's come from,your shame is.
There's no point in just, it'sthere, let's look at it
(44:27):
correctly, let's figure thisout, don't avoid it.
Yes, I have done, I have been inso many situations, I have done
so many things where people willjust go, and I mentioned them,
like I've lost control of mybowels.
I was a fully functioningalcoholic, alcohol dependent for
(44:48):
a long time Drinking thenastiest cider.
It's just goes right throughyour guts right through, even
the smell of It's like thatfrosty jack.
It's just So i've done thingsthat people are just die of
shame even when I speak aboutthem, But if you can't go back
and look at it it's thatresentment or that, that
(45:10):
emotion.
So it's that motion like it'sin, in circular motion, it's
emotion, isn't it?
So it's on.
If I don't go look at it, everytime I think about it, I'm going
to feel it.
but the more I do it, the lessand less it gets.
Do you know what I mean?
I think there's people around.
Yeah,
James (45:27):
that relates because as, as long as you have shame and
guilt and you do nothing aboutit, every time you, something
like that happens, it's going tohave complete power over you.
It's going to feel, it's goingto feel a gut wrench maybe in
your stomach or that sense of,oh, I'm going to hide away.
(45:49):
But if you approach it.
and look at it in a deep way,then it loses its power.
Perfect example is you can sithere there and talk about all
this and not have a not flinch.
And I feel as though I'm verysimilar with regards to myself
with the idea of porn beforeperhaps six, 10 weeks ago, I
(46:14):
couldn't mention the wordwithout feeling guilt and shame.
But now that I've, I'm lookingdeep into it.
That guilt and shame no longerhas any power.
I can talk about it and it mightbe a little bit of embarrassment
but that guilt and shame ofdoing it is gone which is why I
can talk about it so openly.
James Banks (Guest) (46:34):
Yeah and then once you start talking
about it openly you realiseyou're helping others and you're
moving away.
And you're moving away.
You go, Oh my God, that's all itwas.
One of the big learnings for meat the beginning of in recovery
is someone actually said to me,do you know what?
You're not that important.
I was like, oh what, it's no,people will, people aren't asked
(47:00):
really about what's going on foryou.
You are it's shame for you andmaybe close circle or something
like that, but people have gottheir own shit going on and
people are going to be gettingon with their own lives.
And they're not going to bedwelling on what you did or
didn't do or what, how you feelbecause of this and that.
It's yes, today's headlines istomorrow's fish and chip paper
(47:21):
wrapper, it's just, it doesn'tmatter.
So once I got over that, it didtake me a little bit of, oh, you
cheeky bastard.
Do you know who I think I am?
James (47:34):
So for those people who perhaps are alone, And are going
through addictions at thismoment in time, and are willing
to step maybe are willing totake that first step.
What can they do?
James Banks (Guest) (47:49):
Great question.
Reach out, have to reach out.
I have been working within thisfield since 2013, 2014.
I have never seen, come acrossanyone that's managed to pull
themself out of it on their own.
I have witnessed some reallysturdy people that have pulled
(48:14):
themselves to places wherethey're no longer doing as bad
as what they did previously.
But unless you unearth, go backto source, the inevitability of
creating that same problem againand again will happen.
(48:35):
Reach out.
I would say reach out.
Reach out, find someone, reachout, open up, we're only as,
we're only as safe as oursecrets.
That's it.
And they can only flourish inthe dark.
It's like mushrooms.
They'll grow in the dark.
(48:56):
But you say you feed them shit,keep them in the dark and then
they flourish.
That's what happens.
James (49:04):
I don't know about you, but I find with, I, I know I
have the such porn and socialmedia addictions, for me quite
often it's to do with numbingnumbing pain.
How can somebody lean?
And learn to sit with this pain.
Because I think sometimes withinpain, there's this discomfort.
So how can people start toreally sit with that discomfort?
James Banks (G (49:28):
Compassionately, I feel, to be around others who
understand, is the beginning ofbeing able to sit with it, so
you can see others.
When now you're talking aboutporn addiction, coming away from
it, and the embarrassment andthe, or the less embarrassment
(49:48):
and, Again, as I said, whenwe're looking towards I wanna be
him, someone's looking towardswanting to be us.
So it's that collective, thatsupport, because we're all one,
no one does things that Ihaven't done before.
We've all done porn addiction.
We've all, not addiction.
We all go to the toilet.
(50:09):
We all do the same things.
We're all one.
James (50:14):
So the key message is to reach out.
And define a community who canhelp and support you through it.
James Banks (Guest) (50:20):
Connection, Definitely.
James (50:24):
So for those who don't know you, how can they?
What do you do and how can theyget in contact with you?
James Banks (Guest) (50:32):
So I will help people online.
You can find me atjamesbanksaddiction at gmail.
com.
Jamesbanksaddiction onInstagram.
People in Belfast, I run a freesupport group every two weeks.
Just inviting anyone to comealong and start the journey.
I work with people online, ifpeople want to work with me, I
(50:54):
can work with online.
Do discount rates, do all that.
My style is I always encouragepeople to get out and find the
community, their tribe.
I'm not about working withpeople.
Like a cash cow.
I don't want to work with peoplefor money.
That's never been my objective.
(51:14):
In recovery, I want people toget better and just find their
own tribe.
And they're out there, no matterwhere you are.
There's people out there,there's always AA and CA, but
there's men's groups, there'swomen's groups, there's support
groups, sports groups, there'ssinging, there's ecstatic dance,
there's so many differentthings.
Because the addiction is justIt's just the, it's the lowest
(51:36):
form of the Russian doll.
That's what that is.
It's that or it's whatever youdo.
It's that I'm just encouragingyou to come out and coming out.
This is where you learn how tobe all the things you can't do
in life.
You learn how to do them in safeenvironments.
Eventually you become fullyRussian.
So you'd be that vision, whichcan still go down.
(51:58):
If you start being dishonest,that's the big one.
It comes out.
But you could be honest and thencome back home.
But if people wanna work withme, they can find me at James
Bank Station.
That's fine.
But that's how, that's my styleof your life.
Yeah.
Encourage people to go and goget it.
Get it in the world.
Don't sit with me.
You know what I mean?
I'll give you, I'll bring you tothe place where you can do it on
(52:20):
your own.
And then take the stabilizersoff and go.
Come back again if you need me.
Go.
James (52:27):
Yeah.
James Banks (Guest) (52:28):
That's what life is.
James (52:30):
Thank you James.
Thank you, James.
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