May 1, 2025 • 21 mins
Fear grips you when your child overdoses. The nightmare every parent dreads becomes reality, and suddenly every moment feels like walking on a tightrope across an abyss.
In this deeply personal conversation, Catherine courageously shares her ongoing journey supporting her 18-year-old daughter through addiction and substance misuse, including a recent overdose that required Narcan intervention. She doesn't speak from the comfortable distance of hindsight but from the raw, vulnerable center of the storm.
What do you do when your child is an adult making choices that could kill them? How do you maintain boundaries while respecting their autonomy? Catherine explores how she's learning to process overwhelming fear rather than suppressing it, discovering that allowing herself to emotionally "collapse" actually strengthens her connection to inner wisdom. She discusses the delicate balance of establishing necessary boundaries around money and household expectations while avoiding the trap of trying to control her daughter's choices.
Perhaps most powerfully, Catherine reveals how she practices radical acceptance—embracing her current reality without resistance—while simultaneously holding a vision of her daughter's healing and possibility. This dual perspective allows her to stay present and connected while maintaining hope for the future.
For anyone supporting a loved one through addiction, mental health struggles, or other challenging circumstances, Catherine's reflections offer a compassionate roadmap for navigating seemingly impossible terrain with both love and boundaries intact. Her story reminds us that sometimes our greatest strength emerges when we surrender the illusion of control and embrace the fullness of our human experience—including our deepest fears.
Listen in, and perhaps discover that even in your darkest parenting moments, you're not as alone as you might feel.
TERI
Website: https://teripotter.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teripottercoach/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/teripottercoach
teri@teripotter.com
CATHERINE
Website: https://www.collaborative-insights.com/conscious-coaching
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/collaborative_insights_coach/
catherine@collaborative-insights.com
Resources:
- Conscious Parenting (Dr. Shefali Tsabary)
- Compassionate Inquiry (Dr. Gabor Maté, Sat Dharam Kaur)
Here are a few international resources:
- United States: National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-TALK (1-800-273-8255) or text HOME to 741741
- United Kingdom: Samaritans: 116 123
- Canada: Crisis Services Canada: 1-833-456-4566 or text 45645
- Australia: Lifeline Australia: 13 11 14
- International Helplines: Please visit www.suicide.org/international-suicide-hotlines.html for a full list of helplines worldwide.
- https://www.helpguide.org/find-help
Please remember, there is always support available, and reaching out can be the first step in finding help. You are not alone, and support is there for you and your family.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to Navigating the Abyss.
We are Teri and Katherine, twonecessarily trauma-informed moms
who, through our own journeys,were inspired to become
conscious parenting coaches.
We are here to share ourongoing learning and insights in
the hope of bringing some newperspectives and clarity for
parents who might be on similarpaths.
We hope you'll join us.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So hello everybody.
In this episode today,Catherine very courageously is
sharing with me some recentdifficult struggles with her own
daughter's substance misuse.
This includes how she's beendealing with her own sometimes
overpowering fear andoverwhelming emotions at times,
and how she's been practicingboth firm boundaries deep
detachment, as well as learninghow to see her daughter's
(00:58):
possibility all from within theeye of the storm and we really
hope you'll'll join us.
We do our best to hold thesetopics sensitively.
Thank you for listening.
Hey, catherine, there's plentythat I know that you want to
share today, so you shared quitea lot with me already about
(01:18):
what you've been going throughin recent days and weeks with
your daughter's mental healthsituation.
I know we've talked a lot aboutsubstance misuse.
We've talked a lot about recentevents that have been really
challenging, and I'm going toopen up the floor to you to
share a little bit as much asyou feel comfortable with about
(01:41):
recent events, as I know it'svery heavy on your heart.
So let me hand over to you andjust share as much or as little
as you need to yeah, thanks,terry, and thanks for making the
space for me to share, and it'sreally helpful.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So, as I mentioned in my first podcast, my daughter
struggled a lot over multipleyears with substance misuse,
which is is very tied, as is inmost cases, with her mental
health, her anxiety, depression,etc.
And we didn't realize but she'dbeen using, I think, some
(02:16):
harder drugs over the lastcouple months and it wasn't
really clear because she wasfunctioning and she did well in
the classes and was pretty goodat minimizing the chaos at home.
And about a week and a half agoshe overdosed and her father
was there, thank God, and we hadNarcan in the house, which is a
(02:37):
critical antidote for opiateoverdose, and he was able to
administer that and she wastaken to the hospital and so she
was fine.
So we've been dealing a lot nowwith coming to terms with what
that means and also the epidemicof fentanyl on the streets and
(02:59):
what that's meaning for ouryoung people and how at risk
they are and often how theybeing young I think your message
to me was this is a whole newballgame now, right you?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
know, yeah, it's the kind of yeah on upper level for
you guys and understand, yeah,but how serious this was
becoming yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, exactly.
And so she came out.
She was hospitalized for anumber of days and, because her
history, they were concernedabout self-harm, and so they put
her in a hold for a number ofdays.
She's 18.
And she came out and shearticulated a desire to go to an
(03:42):
intensive outpatient programand to try and, in her own way,
address her addiction issues.
So there've been some ups anddowns with that and it's hard to
know exactly what's going on.
And we're kind of right in themiddle of everything right now
and I think what's been beenreally difficult is just, you
(04:06):
know, the fear of of losing her,of, um, how high risk she is
and how vulnerable she is.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
All kids are that are experimenting with drugs when
they're so lethal yeah, and it'sconnected as you are, and I
know you are with your daughterand I know she shares with you
so many things that you wouldimagine they would be hidden.
It leaves you with a sense, nowthat she's 18, that really where
(04:37):
do you exercise autonomy overboundaries?
But I think we're going to cometo that.
First and foremost, you'retouching on the fear, and I know
that anybody listening to thisand me included you know, how
are you managing, how are youcoping with your fear?
You know I see you and I feelyou and I want to make sure that
you have the space to be withyourself and it's just such a
(05:00):
incredible thing to witness youin this process and I just
wanted to honor that for amoment.
But I also want to know how areyou managing with all of your
pain and your fear and the ideathat, well, the worst may happen
?
You know, at any point we allfeel that in different ways at
(05:21):
different times with ourchildren.
But when you've got an exampleof this being right under your
nose in the present, how are youcoping?
What are you doing with thatfear?
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I think before my tendency was to not allow myself
to feel fear, to be in denialabout the fear.
Um, because it was overwhelming.
As I said, this has been goingon for many years, and so now I
(05:53):
recognize the need to feel thefear and to feel the emotions
underlying that, and to tovalidate it and to let myself
collapse if I need to, and it'snot easy.
No, because I've always beenvery strong, and so it scares me
to collapse.
(06:13):
It scares me, it makes me feellike that I'll implode and that
I won't be able to come back outof it, and that it's so.
It's a scary place too.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Scary place.
So what's been your experience?
What's happened when you havecollapsed?
What does happen for you?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
um, I feel better feel better yeah, I mean that's,
everyone has differentexperiences.
But I find that when I allowmyself to feel emotions and that
they do pass and it's so muchbetter than trying to hold
things inside or to stuff themdown, and there are times it
(06:50):
feels overwhelming andparalyzing, but it does pass it
does pass yeah it does pass.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
The second rule isn't there.
With emotions, if you feel them, for 90 seconds is the maximum
you'll feel, if you really,really feel them.
But yeah, seconds is themaximum you'll feel, and if you
really really feel them.
Yeah, if your default was tostuff those feelings down, what
would that look like?
I mean, do you just get busy?
What is your go to Super?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
busy, Right?
You know I can multitask and doa lot and I'm competent and
just keep going yeah and notthink about yeah not allow
myself to think or feel aboutwhat's really going on inside.
Yeah, I'm pretty good at that.
Just, you know, keep going,keep going.
(07:36):
And if I keep there's thissense.
If I keep going and keep doingthings and checking things off
the list, and you know, as wetalked about before, like
finding resources for her andfinding the perfect therapist
and doing this and doing that,then somehow there's more
likelihood of her being safe andhealing right, okay and for me
(07:57):
to manage to function.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It's interesting because I know that there's
bound to be some people that arelistening to this, that are
bound to be some people that arelistening to this that are
going to be asking the question.
Well, okay, so you can go awayand you can feel all of those
really heavy feelings.
You're in this criticalsituation.
It's very, very much right here, right now, right under your
nose.
So you might shift that emotionin you and you might feel
(08:21):
better, but the situationsituation still remains.
But we're not trying to changeanything.
Here are we?
Because we can't right.
It's outside of our remit tochange anything that our young
people are going to be doing.
So what does that mean for you?
That you get to shift thatemotion?
Is there a sense of feelingstronger, feeling a little bit
(08:42):
more resourced, and is there anelement of being able to sort of
acknowledge the autonomy ofyour child, the sovereignty
that's a?
There's a word that we use?
Isn't there the sovereignty ofyour daughter in all of this and
your own sovereignty, or doesit feel different?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, I feel like when I allow myself to feel
connected to however you want todescribe it, I feel connected
to a source of wisdom withinmyself.
I don't feel so alone.
I mean this may sound, you know, spiritual, but I'm very
committed to my spiritual pathand I feel connected to
(09:25):
something else that gives mestrength and gives me solace,
and I also am better able toconnect with my daughter and to
engage because it's drawing onthat source right, that well of
wisdom, and not the outsidepanic and the need to control
and the right which is theimmediate reaction when, often,
(09:49):
when it comes from somethinglike this.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I'm getting a sense of space spaciousness in the
whole situation from being so ontop to maybe there being a bit
more room for.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah beautiful.
And it's not all the time.
I mean sometimes, as we weresaying earlier, sometimes, you
know, I do panic and my heartstarts to beat and I want to
scream and I want to find thatRight, and that's OK.
That doesn't mean that I'mdoing things wrong or that I
(10:19):
haven't learned to do thingsbetter.
It's just I feel reallyemotional sometimes and it's
okay for her to see that.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, you know what point are we being authentic and
what point are we beinginauthentic?
Right, we can't pretendsomething other than we are.
The point is, if that channelof communication and connections
open between you, then the realmessage will be felt, the truth
will be felt.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
We can't yeah, defended and we were unable to
do that.
That.
The, the wise communication,suffers that.
You such a beautiful connectionwith your daughters another
thing that I know people aregoing to be curious about.
If you are okay that answer.
Another question would just bearound boundaries, the idea of
boundaries, and I think youwanted to speak to this as well.
(11:02):
You know, maintaining thatconnection in amongst all of
this, is there such a thing asmaintaining boundaries?
what does that look like whenyou're dealing with the
situation so yeah we know otherpeople will have very strong
opinions of what boundaries thatyou should be setting or
enforcing, or you that a realthing?
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
yeah, when I talk to someone who hasn't struggled
with, uh, childhood mentalhealth issues, and particularly
with substance misuse andaddiction issues, you know the
first response is lock them up.
They need to be protected fromthemselves, and that is
considered totally reasonable,right, and?
And I did that, we did that formany years.
(11:45):
You know, as I've said, we didwilderness therapy, multiple
therapeutic boarding schools,therapeutic farms.
I mean there was a lot ofattempts to bubble wrap to
protect and it has a role, right, because the brain's maturing
and all of that, but ultimatelythey have to live their lives
yeah they need and they needthat and they have to have
(12:06):
agency in their change and theirtransformation and their
healing yeah it doesn't workotherwise no, and I heard you
say she's come out of this andshe said look, I want to do this
outpatient program.
I want to make choices formyself she is, I mean she's, you
know, and there's a lot ofambiguity with addiction, right,
because the substances aremeeting a need within her.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
You know.
But her behaviors make sense.
It's not that she's justchoosing to do this because she
wants to be this rebellious kidand she thinks it's cool.
I mean, there's always anidentity, probably piece to it,
but it's really about a need.
It's meeting a need within hersobriety and yet she's exploring
(12:53):
options yeah, right for hertreatment and looking at what
those might look like.
And it's terrifying to allowher that time, yeah, to come to
terms and to make a choice forherself, because you know the
cost could be unthinkable andyou're walking a very fine line.
(13:13):
I don't know what the optionwould be right now, except for
her to go through this, and whatI think that's so important is
the connection yes because thesubstances are meeting a need of
, I think, in her case, of notfeeling enough, not feeling seen
.
(13:33):
Um, you know there's someattachment wounds and so letting
her know that, even in themidst of this chaos and us not
agreeing with her decisions,always that we accept her, yeah,
that we accept who she is andthat we love her unconditionally
yeah and you listen to her, youhear her when she wants to
(13:57):
speak.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I mean, what more can you do in that situation?
And there is some distancebetween you right now, but yet
the connection is so strong andshe's 18 and she gets to choose.
And I would argue I think itwas Shivali that said you know,
past the age of 11 or 12, youstop becoming your child's
(14:17):
teacher.
You just give them the space toevolve and exist.
This is such a challengingsituation for you to find
yourself in, so for you to beexperiencing this and you know,
obviously, this particularepisode as well.
I just want to share with peoplethat you know we're very much
(14:39):
in this process.
Whatever your process is, ifyou're listening, we're very
much in this process.
So nobody ever wins, nobodyever gets out, nobody comes out
the other side unscathed.
You know we gathered some tools, we've got this far, we're in
this.
Now Catherine's going throughthis in this moment.
(15:01):
It's real, it exists.
It's a privilege to be able tojust hear you share so openly,
so vulnerably, with a view tohelping and supporting other
people, but you're very much inthe process and very much trying
to manage a really sensitivesituation.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I can't imagine anything much more challenging
than this trying to maintainconnection when your child is
doing everything that you wouldwish that they weren't yeah,
like I said, the connection isfirst allowing her agency,
encouraging her agency, and youknow there's lots of different
techniques around open-endedquestions open-ended questions.
(15:42):
Right, tell me right wellasking her, you know.
So what do you think is goingto be helpful for you?
What do you need?
How did you feel after thishappened?
Right, are there any lessonsfor you?
What do you need?
How did you feel after thishappened?
Are there any lessons for you?
What is clarity for you?
What does that look like?
Just conversations to get herto think, and let her know that
I don't pretend to have theanswers, and so I think that
(16:05):
role is helpful, and there areboundaries, though, so in terms
of, for example, money.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Ah, yes, okay though, so in terms of for example,
money.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Ah, yes, okay, right, so for us it's like chaos in
the house.
It's money.
We really want her to attendher classes.
So if you don't attend yourclasses and you don't get any
spending money for the weekend,we don't give extra money
because we don't know where itwill go if there's chaos.
We're really firm about herfather, because she's with him
right now in new york, that heneeds to sleep after 11.
(16:34):
You know that needs.
Things need to be quiet, justbasic agreements on living
together, yeah, which she doesunderstand.
And then you know we're tryingto figure out how to have
boundaries around.
If she's living with us, shedoes need to have some sort of
support around her addiction andwhat that looks like is up to
(16:54):
her.
But we really feel that'sessential, including drug
testing, although I don't knowat this point if she will
consent to seeing the results,because that's part of the
agency and part of all of that.
But that's kind of where we'reat around the boundaries and
it's the best we can doabsolutely you know it's not
about controlling her.
(17:15):
You have to be home because youknow if you're out too late you
could get into trouble.
No, it's, you're living in thishouse.
You need to be home becauseyour father, who's working,
needs to get up at 5 30 in themorning and needs his rest.
So that's why it's about himand what he needs, not about
trying to control her, and Ithink that's been really
important.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah understanding of that and full of yeah, that I
mean.
Yeah, get in the way of that.
At times she does yeah well asyou know, in her more sober
moments you definitely have anexperience of her appreciation
yeah yeah, well, is thereanything else that you want to
bring?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
yeah, yeah.
Well, is there anything elsethat you want to bring to this?
Yeah, I'm just, I think, Ithink you know.
One thing that I always kind ofgo back to is you know, what is
the learning in this for me?
because I really believe thateverything in our life you know,
as we've learned, but both fromall the wisdom teachers really
is that that our life is aco-creation absolutely, yeah,
yeah, yeah and so these thingsare happening in my life, not to
(18:20):
me, but they're happening in mylife for a reason I believe,
for my growth and for the growthof my family, and I really
believe that and I hold tight tothat and I, so I look at the
situations and so you know, whatdo I need to learn from this?
And I think, right now, whatI'm thinking about, I'm learning
(18:41):
to detach this idea of radicalacceptance.
This is my life, this is astruggle in my life.
This is a struggle in my lifeand I don't need to wish it was
different, or regret or it'sjust what it is.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, well movement needs resistance.
It doesn't take you anywhere,does it?
So what happens if we just havethat radical acceptance?
That's huge.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It doesn't happen in a moment, does you know?
It doesn't happen in a moment.
It doesn't mean that you can'ttake action to shift the
direction yeah that things aregoing in and you can, of course,
but in each day, you know, yeah, so I have this.
I have this longer term visionof of her healing and of her
possibility that I hold on to.
(19:35):
Yeah, but in this day, I acceptwhat's going on here and I'm
not angry at her for not meetingmy expectations and making me
feel bad.
I'm.
I'm seeing it for what it is.
Within that, I'm taking thesteps that I can that's so
powerful.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
That's so powerful.
You're giving me goosebumpsbecause that's actually really
what else can you do, you?
You just you're gonna love her.
Through it, you're acceptingwhere you are, but you've also
got this imagining of all that'spossible for her and you hold
that, you hold that up.
Yeah, I just think that'sbeautiful what you just shared
there.
(20:14):
It's kind of like that wholebigger picture.
And then, coming back to theproblem.
Find that resources you as wellsomehow.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you, katherine, I think.
Thank you, terry, that's got tobe helpful to so many really.
I mean, you're in the eye ofthe storm and you've been open
to to share so beautifully whata blessing you are and what a
(20:35):
gift this will be, I hope, forso many people.
Thank you, thank you, terry.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Thank you for listening and for your questions
.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
You're so welcome and thank you everybody for
listening okay, here's the legalstuff.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
This podcast is presented solely for educational
and entertainment purposes.
We are not licensed therapistsand this podcast is not intended
as a substitute for the adviceof a physician, psychotherapist
or other qualified professional.
See you next time.
Welcome to Navigating the Abyss.
We are Teri and Katherine, twonecessarily trauma-informed moms
who, through our own journeys,were inspired to become
conscious parenting coaches.
We are here to share ourongoing learning and insights in
the hope of bringing some newperspectives and clarity for
parents who might be on similarpaths.
We hope you'll join us.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So hello everybody.
In this episode today,Catherine very courageously is
sharing with me some recentdifficult struggles with her own
daughter's substance misuse.
This includes how she's beendealing with her own sometimes
overpowering fear andoverwhelming emotions at times,
and how she's been practicingboth firm boundaries deep
detachment, as well as learninghow to see her daughter's
(00:58):
possibility all from within theeye of the storm and we really
hope you'll'll join us.
We do our best to hold thesetopics sensitively.
Thank you for listening.
Hey, catherine, there's plentythat I know that you want to
share today, so you shared quitea lot with me already about
(01:18):
what you've been going throughin recent days and weeks with
your daughter's mental healthsituation.
I know we've talked a lot aboutsubstance misuse.
We've talked a lot about recentevents that have been really
challenging, and I'm going toopen up the floor to you to
share a little bit as much asyou feel comfortable with about
(01:41):
recent events, as I know it'svery heavy on your heart.
So let me hand over to you andjust share as much or as little
as you need to yeah, thanks,terry, and thanks for making the
space for me to share, and it'sreally helpful.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
So, as I mentioned in my first podcast, my daughter
struggled a lot over multipleyears with substance misuse,
which is is very tied, as is inmost cases, with her mental
health, her anxiety, depression,etc.
And we didn't realize but she'dbeen using, I think, some
(02:16):
harder drugs over the lastcouple months and it wasn't
really clear because she wasfunctioning and she did well in
the classes and was pretty goodat minimizing the chaos at home.
And about a week and a half agoshe overdosed and her father
was there, thank God, and we hadNarcan in the house, which is a
(02:37):
critical antidote for opiateoverdose, and he was able to
administer that and she wastaken to the hospital and so she
was fine.
So we've been dealing a lot nowwith coming to terms with what
that means and also the epidemicof fentanyl on the streets and
(02:59):
what that's meaning for ouryoung people and how at risk
they are and often how theybeing young I think your message
to me was this is a whole newballgame now, right you?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
know, yeah, it's the kind of yeah on upper level for
you guys and understand, yeah,but how serious this was
becoming yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, exactly.
And so she came out.
She was hospitalized for anumber of days and, because her
history, they were concernedabout self-harm, and so they put
her in a hold for a number ofdays.
She's 18.
And she came out and shearticulated a desire to go to an
(03:42):
intensive outpatient programand to try and, in her own way,
address her addiction issues.
So there've been some ups anddowns with that and it's hard to
know exactly what's going on.
And we're kind of right in themiddle of everything right now
and I think what's been beenreally difficult is just, you
(04:06):
know, the fear of of losing her,of, um, how high risk she is
and how vulnerable she is.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
All kids are that are experimenting with drugs when
they're so lethal yeah, and it'sconnected as you are, and I
know you are with your daughterand I know she shares with you
so many things that you wouldimagine they would be hidden.
It leaves you with a sense, nowthat she's 18, that really where
(04:37):
do you exercise autonomy overboundaries?
But I think we're going to cometo that.
First and foremost, you'retouching on the fear, and I know
that anybody listening to thisand me included you know, how
are you managing, how are youcoping with your fear?
You know I see you and I feelyou and I want to make sure that
you have the space to be withyourself and it's just such a
(05:00):
incredible thing to witness youin this process and I just
wanted to honor that for amoment.
But I also want to know how areyou managing with all of your
pain and your fear and the ideathat, well, the worst may happen
?
You know, at any point we allfeel that in different ways at
(05:21):
different times with ourchildren.
But when you've got an exampleof this being right under your
nose in the present, how are youcoping?
What are you doing with thatfear?
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I think before my tendency was to not allow myself
to feel fear, to be in denialabout the fear.
Um, because it was overwhelming.
As I said, this has been goingon for many years, and so now I
(05:53):
recognize the need to feel thefear and to feel the emotions
underlying that, and to tovalidate it and to let myself
collapse if I need to, and it'snot easy.
No, because I've always beenvery strong, and so it scares me
to collapse.
(06:13):
It scares me, it makes me feellike that I'll implode and that
I won't be able to come back outof it, and that it's so.
It's a scary place too.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Scary place.
So what's been your experience?
What's happened when you havecollapsed?
What does happen for you?
Speaker 1 (06:29):
um, I feel better feel better yeah, I mean that's,
everyone has differentexperiences.
But I find that when I allowmyself to feel emotions and that
they do pass and it's so muchbetter than trying to hold
things inside or to stuff themdown, and there are times it
(06:50):
feels overwhelming andparalyzing, but it does pass it
does pass yeah it does pass.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
The second rule isn't there.
With emotions, if you feel them, for 90 seconds is the maximum
you'll feel, if you really,really feel them.
But yeah, seconds is themaximum you'll feel, and if you
really really feel them.
Yeah, if your default was tostuff those feelings down, what
would that look like?
I mean, do you just get busy?
What is your go to Super?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
busy, Right?
You know I can multitask and doa lot and I'm competent and
just keep going yeah and notthink about yeah not allow
myself to think or feel aboutwhat's really going on inside.
Yeah, I'm pretty good at that.
Just, you know, keep going,keep going.
(07:36):
And if I keep there's thissense.
If I keep going and keep doingthings and checking things off
the list, and you know, as wetalked about before, like
finding resources for her andfinding the perfect therapist
and doing this and doing that,then somehow there's more
likelihood of her being safe andhealing right, okay and for me
(07:57):
to manage to function.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
It's interesting because I know that there's
bound to be some people that arelistening to this, that are
bound to be some people that arelistening to this that are
going to be asking the question.
Well, okay, so you can go awayand you can feel all of those
really heavy feelings.
You're in this criticalsituation.
It's very, very much right here, right now, right under your
nose.
So you might shift that emotionin you and you might feel
(08:21):
better, but the situationsituation still remains.
But we're not trying to changeanything.
Here are we?
Because we can't right.
It's outside of our remit tochange anything that our young
people are going to be doing.
So what does that mean for you?
That you get to shift thatemotion?
Is there a sense of feelingstronger, feeling a little bit
(08:42):
more resourced, and is there anelement of being able to sort of
acknowledge the autonomy ofyour child, the sovereignty
that's a?
There's a word that we use?
Isn't there the sovereignty ofyour daughter in all of this and
your own sovereignty, or doesit feel different?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, I feel like when I allow myself to feel
connected to however you want todescribe it, I feel connected
to a source of wisdom withinmyself.
I don't feel so alone.
I mean this may sound, you know, spiritual, but I'm very
committed to my spiritual pathand I feel connected to
(09:25):
something else that gives mestrength and gives me solace,
and I also am better able toconnect with my daughter and to
engage because it's drawing onthat source right, that well of
wisdom, and not the outsidepanic and the need to control
and the right which is theimmediate reaction when, often,
(09:49):
when it comes from somethinglike this.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I'm getting a sense of space spaciousness in the
whole situation from being so ontop to maybe there being a bit
more room for.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah beautiful.
And it's not all the time.
I mean sometimes, as we weresaying earlier, sometimes, you
know, I do panic and my heartstarts to beat and I want to
scream and I want to find thatRight, and that's OK.
That doesn't mean that I'mdoing things wrong or that I
(10:19):
haven't learned to do thingsbetter.
It's just I feel reallyemotional sometimes and it's
okay for her to see that.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, you know what point are we being authentic and
what point are we beinginauthentic?
Right, we can't pretendsomething other than we are.
The point is, if that channelof communication and connections
open between you, then the realmessage will be felt, the truth
will be felt.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
We can't yeah, defended and we were unable to
do that.
That.
The, the wise communication,suffers that.
You such a beautiful connectionwith your daughters another
thing that I know people aregoing to be curious about.
If you are okay that answer.
Another question would just bearound boundaries, the idea of
boundaries, and I think youwanted to speak to this as well.
(11:02):
You know, maintaining thatconnection in amongst all of
this, is there such a thing asmaintaining boundaries?
what does that look like whenyou're dealing with the
situation so yeah we know otherpeople will have very strong
opinions of what boundaries thatyou should be setting or
enforcing, or you that a realthing?
What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (11:23):
yeah, when I talk to someone who hasn't struggled
with, uh, childhood mentalhealth issues, and particularly
with substance misuse andaddiction issues, you know the
first response is lock them up.
They need to be protected fromthemselves, and that is
considered totally reasonable,right, and?
And I did that, we did that formany years.
(11:45):
You know, as I've said, we didwilderness therapy, multiple
therapeutic boarding schools,therapeutic farms.
I mean there was a lot ofattempts to bubble wrap to
protect and it has a role, right, because the brain's maturing
and all of that, but ultimatelythey have to live their lives
yeah they need and they needthat and they have to have
(12:06):
agency in their change and theirtransformation and their
healing yeah it doesn't workotherwise no, and I heard you
say she's come out of this andshe said look, I want to do this
outpatient program.
I want to make choices formyself she is, I mean she's, you
know, and there's a lot ofambiguity with addiction, right,
because the substances aremeeting a need within her.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
You know.
But her behaviors make sense.
It's not that she's justchoosing to do this because she
wants to be this rebellious kidand she thinks it's cool.
I mean, there's always anidentity, probably piece to it,
but it's really about a need.
It's meeting a need within hersobriety and yet she's exploring
(12:53):
options yeah, right for hertreatment and looking at what
those might look like.
And it's terrifying to allowher that time, yeah, to come to
terms and to make a choice forherself, because you know the
cost could be unthinkable andyou're walking a very fine line.
(13:13):
I don't know what the optionwould be right now, except for
her to go through this, and whatI think that's so important is
the connection yes because thesubstances are meeting a need of
, I think, in her case, of notfeeling enough, not feeling seen
.
(13:33):
Um, you know there's someattachment wounds and so letting
her know that, even in themidst of this chaos and us not
agreeing with her decisions,always that we accept her, yeah,
that we accept who she is andthat we love her unconditionally
yeah and you listen to her, youhear her when she wants to
(13:57):
speak.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
I mean, what more can you do in that situation?
And there is some distancebetween you right now, but yet
the connection is so strong andshe's 18 and she gets to choose.
And I would argue I think itwas Shivali that said you know,
past the age of 11 or 12, youstop becoming your child's
(14:17):
teacher.
You just give them the space toevolve and exist.
This is such a challengingsituation for you to find
yourself in, so for you to beexperiencing this and you know,
obviously, this particularepisode as well.
I just want to share with peoplethat you know we're very much
(14:39):
in this process.
Whatever your process is, ifyou're listening, we're very
much in this process.
So nobody ever wins, nobodyever gets out, nobody comes out
the other side unscathed.
You know we gathered some tools, we've got this far, we're in
this.
Now Catherine's going throughthis in this moment.
(15:01):
It's real, it exists.
It's a privilege to be able tojust hear you share so openly,
so vulnerably, with a view tohelping and supporting other
people, but you're very much inthe process and very much trying
to manage a really sensitivesituation.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I can't imagine anything much more challenging
than this trying to maintainconnection when your child is
doing everything that you wouldwish that they weren't yeah,
like I said, the connection isfirst allowing her agency,
encouraging her agency, and youknow there's lots of different
techniques around open-endedquestions open-ended questions.
(15:42):
Right, tell me right wellasking her, you know.
So what do you think is goingto be helpful for you?
What do you need?
How did you feel after thishappened?
Right, are there any lessonsfor you?
What do you need?
How did you feel after thishappened?
Are there any lessons for you?
What is clarity for you?
What does that look like?
Just conversations to get herto think, and let her know that
I don't pretend to have theanswers, and so I think that
(16:05):
role is helpful, and there areboundaries, though, so in terms
of, for example, money.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Ah, yes, okay though, so in terms of for example,
money.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Ah, yes, okay, right, so for us it's like chaos in
the house.
It's money.
We really want her to attendher classes.
So if you don't attend yourclasses and you don't get any
spending money for the weekend,we don't give extra money
because we don't know where itwill go if there's chaos.
We're really firm about herfather, because she's with him
right now in new york, that heneeds to sleep after 11.
(16:34):
You know that needs.
Things need to be quiet, justbasic agreements on living
together, yeah, which she doesunderstand.
And then you know we're tryingto figure out how to have
boundaries around.
If she's living with us, shedoes need to have some sort of
support around her addiction andwhat that looks like is up to
(16:54):
her.
But we really feel that'sessential, including drug
testing, although I don't knowat this point if she will
consent to seeing the results,because that's part of the
agency and part of all of that.
But that's kind of where we'reat around the boundaries and
it's the best we can doabsolutely you know it's not
about controlling her.
(17:15):
You have to be home because youknow if you're out too late you
could get into trouble.
No, it's, you're living in thishouse.
You need to be home becauseyour father, who's working,
needs to get up at 5 30 in themorning and needs his rest.
So that's why it's about himand what he needs, not about
trying to control her, and Ithink that's been really
important.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah understanding of that and full of yeah, that I
mean.
Yeah, get in the way of that.
At times she does yeah well asyou know, in her more sober
moments you definitely have anexperience of her appreciation
yeah yeah, well, is thereanything else that you want to
bring?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
yeah, yeah.
Well, is there anything elsethat you want to bring to this?
Yeah, I'm just, I think, Ithink you know.
One thing that I always kind ofgo back to is you know, what is
the learning in this for me?
because I really believe thateverything in our life you know,
as we've learned, but both fromall the wisdom teachers really
is that that our life is aco-creation absolutely, yeah,
yeah, yeah and so these thingsare happening in my life, not to
(18:20):
me, but they're happening in mylife for a reason I believe,
for my growth and for the growthof my family, and I really
believe that and I hold tight tothat and I, so I look at the
situations and so you know, whatdo I need to learn from this?
And I think, right now, whatI'm thinking about, I'm learning
(18:41):
to detach this idea of radicalacceptance.
This is my life, this is astruggle in my life.
This is a struggle in my lifeand I don't need to wish it was
different, or regret or it'sjust what it is.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yeah, well movement needs resistance.
It doesn't take you anywhere,does it?
So what happens if we just havethat radical acceptance?
That's huge.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It doesn't happen in a moment, does you know?
It doesn't happen in a moment.
It doesn't mean that you can'ttake action to shift the
direction yeah that things aregoing in and you can, of course,
but in each day, you know, yeah, so I have this.
I have this longer term visionof of her healing and of her
possibility that I hold on to.
(19:35):
Yeah, but in this day, I acceptwhat's going on here and I'm
not angry at her for not meetingmy expectations and making me
feel bad.
I'm.
I'm seeing it for what it is.
Within that, I'm taking thesteps that I can that's so
powerful.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
That's so powerful.
You're giving me goosebumpsbecause that's actually really
what else can you do, you?
You just you're gonna love her.
Through it, you're acceptingwhere you are, but you've also
got this imagining of all that'spossible for her and you hold
that, you hold that up.
Yeah, I just think that'sbeautiful what you just shared
there.
(20:14):
It's kind of like that wholebigger picture.
And then, coming back to theproblem.
Find that resources you as wellsomehow.
Yeah, yeah.
Thank you, katherine, I think.
Thank you, terry, that's got tobe helpful to so many really.
I mean, you're in the eye ofthe storm and you've been open
to to share so beautifully whata blessing you are and what a
(20:35):
gift this will be, I hope, forso many people.
Thank you, thank you, terry.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Thank you for listening and for your questions
.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
You're so welcome and thank you everybody for
listening okay, here's the legalstuff.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
This podcast is presented solely for educational
and entertainment purposes.
We are not licensed therapistsand this podcast is not intended
as a substitute for the adviceof a physician, psychotherapist
or other qualified professional.
See you next time.
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