May 27, 2025 • 34 mins
Look who’s still here! It’s Jenny Zigrino, the queen of the bicoastal breakup. This week, Los Angeles’ avoidant nature comes face to face with a New York attitude.
We all know that relationships don’t last, but how do you handle that awkward dismount?
Should you flick your boyfriend’s forehead, just slap the guy, or send a quick text? Should you even tell your partner that they aren’t the one, or let them figure it out on the internet? Are these questions pathologically unkind? Find out this week!
Hosted by Graham Cameron and Neil Zumwalde
Guest: Jenny Zigrino (@jennyzigrino)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I went to the gym like I did ketamine.
I was like, I have to go to the gym and then I was working out
on ketamine and I was like, it'ssuch a bad idea.
That's. A yeah, that's doesn't sound
like it doesn't sound like the like a protein shake.
Yeah, no, no, your body doesn't catch up with how hard it's
working. So you're like, I'm going to,
I'm going to pass up. Oh, was it like overheat?
(00:21):
Was it a good workout that were you just like just powerlifting?
And then one point I was just like, this feels really bad.
And then I was like, Oh yeah, I remember 1/2 an hour ago I did
some ketamine. That's probably why I feel bad.
OK, yeah, but you know, got to be thin you.
You must. I love waking up skinny.
(00:42):
That's the best time to be skinny.
That's never a struggle. It's.
Just it happened this way. Kettle bells and K holes.
This is premeditated. The podcast investigating
society's unwritten laws and theheinous ways they're broken.
True crime. Low stakes.
I'm Neil, I'm Graham, and this is premeditated.
(01:09):
Hello to the 50 states, all 50, maybe 51 soon cross your finger.
Fingers. Crossed.
We're hoping to get us a couple of those territories.
We're going to have a baby. We have with us today an
incredible, incredible guest. Thank you the.
(01:32):
Honorable Jenny Zagrino. Hello.
Are you ready? Hi.
Hi. Oh, it is.
So glad to be here. I am happy to have you here.
Thank you. Thrilled that you decided to
join us on this beautiful evening in Los Angeles.
That's great. The sun is shining.
Yeah, it's wonderful. That's it.
That's. It the sun is shining, that's
(01:54):
it. News alert.
News alert Everything's really bad, but the sun continues to
burn a hole through our earth. So how are you guys doing?
I'm we're doing great. I'm.
Doing pretty I'm doing OK I guess.
How was your how was your socialetiquette this week, Graham?
My social etiquette I would say was medium well, like it like it
(02:17):
was. It was an average, but I think I
did slightly above what. It was an.
Average of me, of society, yeah.I mean, the times I needed to
tip, I tipped. So doing pretty well OK there.
Yeah. I try to make good eye contact
during conversations. It's important.
I held the door for somebody. You did not.
I did. In fact, did.
(02:38):
I know a stranger. Yeah, it was a it was a a door
dasher, a a little mopeder door dasher.
We were going into a restaurant and he was coming out with a big
tray of things. And I held it and he like, he
almost gave it back to me a little bit too much.
He was like, thank you so much, man.
And I was like, OK. Let's.
Settle down. Somewhere you have somewhere to
be with some hot food. So let's let's keep it moving a
(03:00):
little bit. Yeah, but so Jenny, you are you
told us off air is I hope your mind says you are bicoastal.
I am yeah. And I know this is an off talked
about subject, but how would youcompare this social just like
sort of daily nuance etiquette between the acronym cities LA
and NYC? Well, I definitely am noticing
(03:24):
LA is much friendlier. People are, are nicer, yeah.
But New York is like when you get someone who likes you,
they're like they're locked in, they're into it, right.
So like in my building that I live in, there is like, it's a
just like a different vibe. So like, I have a, there's a 95
(03:44):
year old woman who just sits on the stoop and has like a shirt
over her grocery cart that says I'm 90.
It's adorable. She's lived there for 50 years
in the same building. No shit.
And. So.
She she's great, right. But then like there's a bunch of
like young kind of tech people in my building who I don't think
(04:08):
I've made eye contact with me. The non rent controls.
Yeah. And I'm like in Lai know all my
neighbors. I'm friends with everybody or
like I say hi, whatever. So it's been a little bit of an
adjustment to like I live here, you live there.
That is it. The walls separate us, yes.
The the one thing I will say about New York is that they
understand how to get out of theway in a way that they don't in
(04:31):
LA. So I view it as very polite to
be like, I'm not going to be in your way right now.
So yeah. LA is very much like I it's,
there's a, there's a, there's a falsity of like thinking that
being in the way is like a good thing.
You're like, you're like, you'rejust like, oh, let me create
this like environment for you. It's like, I, I see the
(04:52):
environment. Can I just move through it
without having to like, you know, bow my head and, and thank
you. And like, like the door dasher,
it's like you can, I was just holding the door from just go do
your job. You don't.
Freaked him out. And he hopped on his little
electric scooter and whizzed away.
Yeah. I feel like the big thing is you
(05:13):
can always tell, especially in New York, if someone's not from
there because they will stop in the middle of the entrance to
the turnstile or exit their turnstile and check where they
are every time, right in the middle.
And you're just like, please just go to the side.
Like the subway, like it hasn't fully spun through yet and
they're stopping. Yeah, they're like right before
you get to the turnstiles, and they're just like, I need to see
(05:35):
where I'm going first. And it drives me nuts.
There have been times where I'venow turned into a New Yorker
where I'm like, get the fuck outof my way.
And that feels. Good.
Beautiful. That feels.
Great fun opportunity to use an accent too.
Get the fuck out of my way. Yeah.
We should go to new. York Yeah, we should.
Oh my God, it'd be so fun. Fun in New York just to yell at
(05:57):
people, Yeah. I've been in Queens for two
months. I'm like, I'm from fucking
Queens, I'm from fucking Queens.Sunnyside Black.
Why do you take the brown line right?
Isn't that? That's what I did this morning.
The brown color one is the what?EU, the V the W.
Is the yellow brown? J The JMZ I think the JMC is it
(06:23):
the? JMC is the brown one.
The. Jenny motherfucking the green.
I'm on the seven. It's purple.
I'm on the purple line like a #7.
That New York boroughs sound so much cooler than like, LA
neighborhoods like Bronx, Queens, Highland.
We have like, yeah, Silver Lake,just like Culver.
(06:46):
City, it's nice. Santa Monica.
I know it's not LA, but whatever.
Fuck you guys, really. No, no they're not.
It's a sound they have their owngovernment.
They're alone. It's because they it's.
Because a little piece of shit over Yeah, no.
It's because all the, the rich people, sorry to call them by
their SO refer to them so informally.
(07:08):
But like they, they wanted, theywanted to keep their like LAPD
wasn't enough. So they like made their own
government so they could have their own.
It's always about having your own Police Department, isn't it?
Not your. Own criminals.
Speaking of crime, I have a casefor you.
Too. Yes.
And I think that I'm going to need some help sussing it out
because it's the type of case that that where I'm incredibly
(07:31):
guilty of it and I don't want tobe judged, OK.
But you you don't, OK. That's perfect.
This is a perfect. So you don't want to be judged,
but you know. I know it's wrong.
Yeah, I know it's wrong. OK, Yeah.
Is this? But like where is the line?
So I I need your help like figuring out where is the line.
(07:52):
Is this and is this something that would occur to us or?
Is it? I'm sure we've all come toe to
toe with this green eyed monster.
Yeah, thick case. Awfully thick.
Awfully thick, yeah. There's a lot of literature.
About this. Oh my gosh.
My heart started pounding. Yeah, don't worry.
Don't want to be guilty of this too.
(08:13):
Yeah, alright, we might implicate.
Is this a? Is this a gendered thing?
We're going to find out we're. Going.
To find out, should we crack it open?
Let's crack it open. Jessica how was informed trauma
therapy? Oh my God, I learned so much
about myself. Oh yeah.
(08:34):
Yeah, yeah. And one example, Oh, I just
learned that like, you know, thethings that I do are I do them
and like we all just do things. And like once you realize the
doing, then the undoing can be done that.
Is so. True.
That's very informative. Yeah.
That's pretty, yeah. I feel super.
The things we do, we do. We do them.
(08:57):
Oh. My gosh.
And like. Yeah.
I appreciate like learning this on such a beautiful hike.
I know. Yeah, what did you say this one
once again. We're currently in the Verdugo
Heights. Oh my God.
Yeah. I knew it.
Doesn't that mean? Axe murderer in Spanish.
Does it? I think or executioner of some
sort. I don't, I don't know.
(09:18):
I'm not bilingual. I'm white.
I me too too. Oh.
My gosh. And that was part of the
informed trauma was really dealing and of confronting my
inability to speak more languages.
Lack of linguistics. Yeah.
You know, actually, you know what I think it is.
(09:38):
There's a baseball player and they call him the Executioner,
and his last name's Verdugo. Is that what it is?
Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.
Alex Verdugo. OK, wow, OK.
Have you ever done ketamine before?
I've played baseball. They're kind of similar.
Yeah. OK, Yeah, you're both like
knocking stuff out of the park, you know what I mean?
Yeah, we're out of the bases on this. 1.
(10:00):
I'm getting a text. I'm getting a.
Text. Oh, it's.
It's Mikey, my boyfriend. I can't believe you get.
Service out here, I can't believe.
Yeah. No, no, no.
If I hold it, it's the three dots.
OK. Oh, you still have dots on your?
Oh, he's sending you a text? 3 dots.
Oh, OK. Well, I guess we can carry on.
Yeah, you. Said we needed to talk.
What does that? What do you think that means?
(10:22):
I think that means, I mean, I'm not, I don't have informed.
I think you might, I have some ketamine if you want some
because do you mind? Yeah.
Actually, yeah, I think you might need a little bit.
Because I'm actually kind of freaking.
Out loosey, loosey goosey for whatever that means because it's
pretty intense. I'm going to.
Text him back. OK, OK.
Oh. He's right.
He's writing again. Alright.
Oh, that wasn't enough. That wasn't enough, oh, he said.
(10:46):
I think this has run its course and we should see other people.
Oh my gosh, that's so kind of him to be so forward with you.
I'm a little heartbroken right now.
You know what? Ketamine will fix that.
OK, we'll like pull it out now because I'm about to lose it.
Yeah, I'm about to lose. It can we get Terry a bump?
(11:07):
He's he's starting to lose it. I'm sweating it's.
My bag of ketamine. Please take it Terry, just.
Can you remind me? Wow.
Oh, OK, OK, that went away faster than I thought.
It's instant release. It's really.
Good. This this was this was the guy
you met at at all seasons, correct?
(11:29):
Yeah, 8 months ago. We started dating 8 months ago.
Oh my. Gosh, didn't you just move in
together? Were you a fish?
Well. I mean, yeah, we, I was packing
to move in with him, OK? He's been, he's been kind of
like he's been weird about it because he's been saying like,
oh, like I'm just not quite yet.We're not there yet.
But I was packed up and ready tomove in so.
(11:50):
And permission to say this. It sounds like there were signs
though, right? Was there signs?
I think I think that he's not ready for a relationship yet was
maybe a sign. And again, I haven't had
informed therapy. So I I'll refer to you Carla on.
This well look well Carla is my second name.
Jessica, Carla. You know I prefer Jessica, but I
(12:11):
will accept Carla. I apologize.
I'm just still I'm sorry I'm white.
It's. OK, it's OK, Hank.
So. Go behind right now.
Oh wow, OK, well I guess we're both on a on a journey.
So I forgot what the question was because I am on a lot of
were there were. There were there signs for
Terry. Oh well, OK, Terry.
(12:34):
Terry did, like, not give you a set of keys when you asked for
one. He didn't.
Give me a set of keys. He also like to take separate
cars to places too, I thought. That was just because his car
was so messy. Oh, I thought it's because he
hated the environment. That kind of makes it so much
better. Easy, you didn't want.
To Oh, that's true. That is true.
(12:55):
Yeah, he was trying to really fuck the environment.
Yeah, I guess it's a good. Oh, and and and just.
Start the nature. Starting to think I dodged a.
Bullet yeah, I also think didn't, didn't Terry give you
like 3 different phone numbers? Yeah, he said that they were for
one that he gives to family members, one that he gives to
(13:15):
business associates and the other one is just a cell.
You got all three? I got all three, but he really
wouldn't answer any of them. But he texted me from the
general cell. Yeah, it said, it said it said
Terry, which is also my name. Terry, General Cell.
And I thought we were so well matched because we both have
this Terry and Terry. Yeah, that's.
(13:35):
So. Cute.
Mine's with an A and his is withan E so I thought it was cute.
Terry. Terry.
Terry, it's Terry. That's terrible.
Are you doing? OK, I mean, no, I'm so sweaty.
I'm so heartbroken. I can't.
Oh no, we just stepped in some dog shit.
That's the least of my problems,but it's still a big problem.
(14:04):
All rise for the Honorable JudgeJenny Zagrino.
Hello. Hello.
Wow, what a journey that was. Yeah, I'm really excited to just
delve into this. Yes, OK.
It's. Really nice to get out.
In nature. Yeah.
What do you guys think the crux of the case was?
I see two things here. OK, And they could be they
(14:26):
could, I could be over 2 on thisone.
My my first instinct was having a phone out on a hike.
So like technology versus nature?
Yeah, OK. Because you did set us up in a
nature so that that was just like it put a little like green
flag in my head to be like understand.
And then the second one just I think a little more obvious and
(14:46):
I maybe this is what you were thinking is making your
relationship troubles everybody else's issue.
I saw answering a text, so not kind of in your world, but like
answering a text when you're with other people.
OK, big faux pas. Yeah, right.
(15:08):
Taking your phone out. And then I think actually I just
think that that's it. And then I think the.
Like that's the bad and everything else is.
Good. Everything else is like, yeah,
whatever. We're friends, we're all talking
about relationships. Yeah, I mean, I what I was going
for in that is breaking up via text.
Oh, that's never happened to me.Before, that's never happened.
(15:31):
You've never done that to someone before.
I have OK, I have told someone that it's not going to work out
after like a week to like 2 weeks of dating somebody, but
I've never been in an 8 month relationship like you and Terry
and Terry, Terry and Terry from Beverly, MA.
(15:53):
Oh my God, Terry. Terry, I'm so sad that Terry
broke your heart. Terry.
Yeah. But if if I was dating that
person for like more than a month and like we've gone on
several dates, then then yeah, I'm going to call them and break
up in person or break up in person.
(16:15):
Yeah, I was way off. I don't know if that makes me
like complicit with like breaking up over text.
Have you? I no, not like a nothing 8 you
said eight months, nothing longer than 8 months, But for
sure texts like kind of what you're talking about is like a
whatever situation ship like a couple dates, a couple hookups,
(16:36):
whatever. And then it's like I'm not
feeling it. And it's, I think in those
situations, a text fits the billa little bit because because a
more official breakup kind of makes it seem like it was bigger
than what it was, which is like a little bit of an insult to the
the person is being break up with a little bit being like,
oh, I didn't know. You know, I think three dates is
(16:58):
if it's after three dates, wow, then you need to you need to
call, call like you don't have to be in person, but it can be a
phone call. If it's like 3 months it needs
to be in. Person yeah, and but I I'm I
don't necessarily disagree, but I'm like curious as to why?
Why does it have to be in personafter three months?
(17:19):
Just because otherwise it's a slap in the face to the person
that you've been having sex with.
Tell me why I'm a piece of shit.Tell me why I'm a trash.
I don't. I'm just like asking.
No, I. I'm not asking.
For a friend. I'm not going to argue that
Terry isn't trash, but I do. I'm trying to put myself in your
(17:44):
shoes in the situation, Terry, with an A situation is that like
I think there are some situations run a small way.
If I were to be broken up with, I would kind of want that news
to come to be fed to me in a text because that sort of I
don't know, there's there's a sting both ways.
It's a sting because it's like, oh, they didn't think I was
(18:05):
worth a in person conversation. But then there's also times
where it's like a breaking up tomy face is like I they have to
see my reaction and like no, andlike my emotional, my emotions
are like played out in real timein front of the person hurting
me, which is which is it almost feels a little bit like
bullying. It's.
Not a lot like bullying. Well, OK, I think you can also
(18:29):
take it from two sides though, the person getting dumped and
the person in the dumping dumping.
So if you are know you're getting dumped by someone you've
been dating for three months andyou know they're going to dump
you, would you opt in for the text or the phone versus the
person who's doing the dumping? Opt in push notifications,
that's kind of right, yeah. I, I as a person doing the
(18:49):
dumping would definitely do it in person.
I think as knowing I was going to get dumped after three
months, I, I think it would still warrant a person because
three, OK, so three months is when you've decided I either
want to be with this person or Idon't.
OK, that's kind of like my test is like.
(19:10):
I can keep that going way longer.
Wow. OK, the mask stays on.
OK, that's AI mean that is that is a lot of emotional clarity to
like, no, at three months you'relike, oh, this isn't right or
this is right, 'cause like I've been in relationships that I've
gone on a year where I'm like, oh wow.
Are you sure? Are you sure?
Were there a point? Were there OK, here's the
(19:32):
question. Was it you were like, oh, I can
handle this thing or like, I don't really like this thing,
but I think it's OK. And then you're like, it's
really not OK. Or was it like 9 months in
suddenly they were you. They became like super abusive
and you were like Oh my God, this is not who I thought it was
with. That second one is a.
(19:54):
Little. Domestic I saw.
A reel. I saw a reel recently of a woman
who flicked her boyfriend's forehead and it filled me with
so much rage. Like flicking.
Versus just like just slap them.Like just don't flick me.
Just punch me like this, this little.
(20:15):
Force, yeah. Like like you wear a bug.
Oh my God. That's what.
I do. Terry says.
You're a bug. That's so true though, because
like slapping, I think most people have been slapped at one
point in the left hands up people have been slapped.
But like, that's like something you can handle, but a flick is
so like, yeah, you're right. It's very dismissive.
It's like flicking a bug. But it's also it's such a like
(20:38):
unique form of abuse that you'relike, I feel like it wouldn't be
so much the pain from the flick because I think flicks probably
can't hurt, but just like the shock of being like.
You know what I don't like is being confused.
And now I'm confused. Confused.
And. Abused and abused because.
You can't go to somebody like they, they flick me.
(20:58):
You feel like what? There's so much plausible
deniability in the flick. Just so rude.
So. Yeah, nobody deserves that.
OK, so, so back to though, do you feel like there were things
that you just let go because youwere in the honeymoon phase and
you were like, whatever? Oh yeah, for sure, yeah.
(21:20):
It was for sure like, yeah, likethings I was like willing to
overlook being like, oh, like, you know, they, they do this and
this like they like get mad at me when I don't post it in
Instagram enough. And I'm like, whatever, that's
just like their thing. And then yeah, but like, there's
also like the like, the, the posts breakup clarity of being
like, oh, no, that was like an like a lot of things added up
(21:44):
was like a bad sign. But during the in the moment or
like during the relationship, it's like, oh, you know, I can
like I can look past that because she's nice to me or my
friends like her or whatever. Those are the two other reasons
it's amazing how far my friends like her will go.
It's a big one. But like, if your friends don't
(22:05):
like them, I think that's a big like.
If your friends don't like them,you shouldn't be dating them
anyways. Yeah, because this is.
Friends. Friends know friends.
Do know friends do. Know yeah, must do and.
Some friends. Don't know, see some friends
I've had because that's the other thing is I've had friends
like after a breakup, friends were like, oh, you got to get
her back. And that set me back like
(22:26):
months. Because I was like.
OK, I got to get. Her back, she was so much better
than you. I'm like, no.
That really fucked up. That is the rudest thing.
Ever I showed up that's at her house with signs like in a love.
Action. Yeah, it was bad, James said.
You should come back. James told me to try to do this.
I think James wants to date you.Yeah, I think.
(22:49):
I think 3 months person. So.
So three dates is the threshold between texting and calling. 3
months is the threshold between calling and in person.
This is like exactly the like 3 days without water, three weeks
without food. But again though, if in that
three months you were spending alot of time with that person,
(23:11):
then you can. Push the deadline.
Also to you to think about, are you in a love bombing situation?
Describe a love bombing situation.
So if you, you meet someone, right?
And like, if you immediately start like hanging out with this
person all the time, you start making all these plans and like
you've just met this person, that's probably going to be a
love bombing situation and it will combust and it will be very
(23:34):
bad. I definitely do that every time
I think. You get love bombed.
Or you. Bombed.
Yeah. I'm like, I'm like the.
Worst. That's why.
That's why you dump people over text, you monster.
I haven't done it in a long time.
People always come to me and then get dumped.
I'm just sitting here. I'm.
Just sitting here and I'm like, I can't do that.
(23:55):
Yeah. So a lot, a lot of factors.
I think there's a lot of factorsinto it.
Yeah, yes. Yeah, I don't know.
I'm still kind of touring because I, I, I believe both of
you, both of you, I'm really straddling this fence a little
bit because like I, I do still feel like there is like after
what, the three month deadline. Like that person, if you spend a
(24:17):
lot of time with them, they deserve the respect of being,
you know? I do agree.
Told Face to Face but I also butlike the text is also like.
It might be kinder for them a little.
I maybe a little bit like maybe,maybe OK, would you accept?
OK, let's say Terry with an E text you Terry with an A was
(24:38):
like, I've been thinking about things.
I want to break up. Would you agree to meet me this
weekend and like, you know, recap, closure, whatever, but
like so is, is is the pretext? The expectation of breakup.
The pretext, the pretext of the pretext of the breakup, how does
that, how does that fit with? You in your courtroom?
(24:59):
What does that make you feel? I'm I'm thinking if someone
texts me that I've been intimatewith and was like, oh, we have a
life path together and they go, hey, I'm not feeling this
anymore. I want to break up.
We should talk about it. I would be like go fuck yourself
and why don't you go die in a bog you fucking broccoli.
(25:20):
But wouldn't it be kind of a gift that they gave not?
At all all the. Validation and all the no.
Because this is what I said. This is.
I've already made my choice and now I just need to talk at you
about it. Actually, that's a good point.
And I think because the dumb, the person who was dumped then
(25:40):
just starts filing away all the like, the receipts and
arguments. Then when that meet up does
come, you come in guns blazing. Yeah.
Like, yeah, like it's always. Really fully loaded.
We'll go no contact for six months, then we can talk about
it. And I'm not going to have like
the cloud of I want to get back together with this person.
How can I change da, da, da. It's just like, then I will be
like, you are awful and I'll tell you all the reasons you're
(26:03):
awful and then I will leave. That's that's that sounds nice
and clean to me. I've never had.
I've never had a relationship that clean.
Me either, I mean. I really thought that look.
I've never been dumped that way.This is how my relationships
have have ended is the last 1 ended with a me having to be
(26:27):
like I think you're unhappy. We should probably break up and
that was over the phone because we're both in different states.
And I was like, here's all the reasons.
We can talk about it in like a week.
And we talked about it and then and that was horrible.
It was horrible. Oh yeah, it was like.
You think that you that that wasa mistake to frame it up that
(26:49):
way or? No, it was just, it was, it was
just like a bad relationship that now I was that truths were
coming out where I was like, Oh my God, I've been like this
these last six months have been like a lie.
And then we didn't go. We had no contact.
And then I do the thing where I'm like, I'm a modern woman.
I can have friendships with exesbecause they don't bother or
(27:13):
impact me. And then it just is continually
stabbing myself in the heart over and over again.
That's not a good thing to do. Don't don't contact them.
You go go no contact. Do it.
I've done no contact for like 3 or 4 months and then I go back
and then I'm like this is so stupid.
(27:34):
And then I have then but then I've already I've already
contacted. So I got to commit.
Doors open. I commit to friendship.
Oh no. I hate it.
But wasn't that isn't that wasn't wasn't friendship the
reason? Now we're friends.
Now. We're stuck, we're friends.
This is the worst. OK, I.
Don't like I don't think that just because you talk to a
(27:55):
person again means that you haveto be friends.
No, it does. I'm committed to this.
All right, all right. No acquaintances.
I say, what is it? Elaine Debonen put us very well,
who is a great philosopher. You guys should listen to him.
Polite distance. Oh.
(28:16):
Yeah. It's your kind and your polite
and oh, that's I'm happy to hearabout that.
Goodbye, goodbye. Yeah.
OK. I thought that.
That's very nice. Yeah.
So all of this kind of bit kind of begs the question of I think
we're pretty clear on a ruling, right.
We're at the three day, three dates, Yeah, 2-3 months.
(28:38):
There's three defines the three tiers of communication about a
breakup. So somebody either violates that
in either direction. Yes.
I think One Direction is like less harmful than the other if I
have gone on three dates with someone and then I meet them up
in person and break up with themin person.
Actually, that sounds insane nowthat I'm.
Saying, I mean, that's I would just say if you hold on, if you
(29:01):
were dating for three dates and then was like, Hey, can we meet
up and then broke up with them, they'd probably be like, the
fuck. Is your problem.
Well. Thanks for telling me I think.
I think with like the single digit date rule, like in the
three range, it's it's I think it's not OK to show up to the
(29:22):
next meet up with the intention of breaking up to them.
OK, But like if you're on whatever date for and they like
say something or do or whatever it is and you're like in the
moment, you're like, this isn't working.
Like that's that's a face to face breakup and that's fine.
But I think scheduling, scheduling a hangout to break up
to, to break up with them in that sort of time is like a
little too like. You might be enjoying the
(29:45):
breakup. Yeah.
It's like you're taking too muchpower about it.
Yeah, OK. I think, I think it's got to be
a little more like neutral and yeah.
So that's a violation. Not texting when you should be
calling or in person is also a violation.
So what do we do to the violators of this thing?
If you're found guilty, what is the punishment?
(30:06):
What I would like to do if I were in that if I were the
dumpy, I would like to tell the dumpers close friends 1 secret
or just like one thing that I don't like.
Yeah, you've given me some information that like I don't
want to hear. Let me, I just want to tell
obviously don't like, you know, burn bridges or anything, but
(30:28):
like. OK, they never liked you.
They found this out in the bedroom about you.
They they didn't come to your birthday party and they it's
because they didn't want to or like some some little or like
his Dick hangs to the left. Here's what I was thinking as a
punishment. Too harsh was my secret thing.
(30:49):
Too harsh. I think it, I think it's like
too personal. To be honest, I was.
Just going to say if if somebodybreaks up via text and they
shouldn't have, they just won't get the multi factor
authentication texts anymore. They have to go through the
entire forgot password flow in order to get into their accounts
(31:10):
every single time. That's my, that's my punishment.
That's. Diabolical.
OK. So different ones I think.
So if, if after before three dates, if they meet up with you
or call you OK. So they're going the opposite.
(31:32):
They're being too intimate in this case.
If they're too, if it's too intimate, yeah, then I think
they should drop their phone andthey get a little a little
crack, a little tiny crack, a little tiny in the corner
hairline, a little tiny in the corner I.
Love that. And if they have a screen
protector, it can be the screen protector that cracks.
Their phone is still usable. But if they were prepared, I.
Like that a lot because their phone is still usable.
It's not like damaging hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise,
(31:55):
but they have to look at it and know that it happened.
Before the three months and theyviolate anything, then they
don't have access to any of their excess social media,
including yours. None of it.
So they can't even go back to somebody else.
Even if they're if if they're inthe polite distance.
Or you can't even. You can't even.
(32:16):
Look at. It and then this is the final
punishment is if after the threemonths, if they dump you by a
text, every nude photo they sendnow goes directly to their
parents. Whoa.
Yeah, every. Every.
And their mom especially. Their mom is.
Special secret thing. Their mother, their parents, you
(32:40):
dummy. It's in an e-mail marks
priority. Yeah, you're.
You're a dummy after 10 months, Yeah, your mom is is going to
see is going to see your day, OK.
Gosh, Oh my, I just in that. Dirty mirror.
That it's chilling. That it's chilling.
Oh, it's a conservative on the court.
Oh my God. So funny The Dirty mirror in.
Oh, that is. So.
(33:01):
Such a dirty mirror I. There's so many times I'm like
looking at whatever Instagram Stories and there's like a
thirst trap. I'm like, do you wipe down your
sink? How is it so dirty?
Yeah, why is it such a dirty mirror?
I put so much effort into like your like outfit or body,
whatever it is, and you don't just like move the half bottle
of mouthwash like down a little bit.
It just doesn't make any sense. As someone who is very very
(33:24):
like, big on aesthetics, uh huh.That doesn't bother me actually.
Dirty mirror Dirty. Mirror is like dirty and gross
in kind of a good. Way, But maybe you're into that,
maybe like a mirror or something.
You're just like, yeah, you're alittle dirty girl.
It's OK. That your your blackout social
media thing is like an incredible app idea.
(33:44):
Like I'm surprised that hasn't been invented, and it shouldn't
be invented. Where where you don't get to
control it. Where someone else controls that
you can't talk to any. You never also blackout and all
your content. Yeah, it gets sent to your
current significant other and you're like friends.
So it's like people who can either punish you or look out
for you with the same app. That's beautiful.
Oh yeah. It's quite beautiful.
(34:06):
Wow. Well.
In that case, I think this mightbe case closed.
Case closed, Yeah. You ready, 321?
This is premeditated.
I went to the gym like I did ketamine.
I was like, I have to go to the gym and then I was working out
on ketamine and I was like, it'ssuch a bad idea.
That's. A yeah, that's doesn't sound
like it doesn't sound like the like a protein shake.
Yeah, no, no, your body doesn't catch up with how hard it's
working. So you're like, I'm going to,
I'm going to pass up. Oh, was it like overheat?
(00:21):
Was it a good workout that were you just like just powerlifting?
And then one point I was just like, this feels really bad.
And then I was like, Oh yeah, I remember 1/2 an hour ago I did
some ketamine. That's probably why I feel bad.
OK, yeah, but you know, got to be thin you.
You must. I love waking up skinny.
(00:42):
That's the best time to be skinny.
That's never a struggle. It's.
Just it happened this way. Kettle bells and K holes.
This is premeditated. The podcast investigating
society's unwritten laws and theheinous ways they're broken.
True crime. Low stakes.
I'm Neil, I'm Graham, and this is premeditated.
(01:09):
Hello to the 50 states, all 50, maybe 51 soon cross your finger.
Fingers. Crossed.
We're hoping to get us a couple of those territories.
We're going to have a baby. We have with us today an
incredible, incredible guest. Thank you the.
(01:32):
Honorable Jenny Zagrino. Hello.
Are you ready? Hi.
Hi. Oh, it is.
So glad to be here. I am happy to have you here.
Thank you. Thrilled that you decided to
join us on this beautiful evening in Los Angeles.
That's great. The sun is shining.
Yeah, it's wonderful. That's it.
That's. It the sun is shining, that's
(01:54):
it. News alert.
News alert Everything's really bad, but the sun continues to
burn a hole through our earth. So how are you guys doing?
I'm we're doing great. I'm.
Doing pretty I'm doing OK I guess.
How was your how was your socialetiquette this week, Graham?
My social etiquette I would say was medium well, like it like it
(02:17):
was. It was an average, but I think I
did slightly above what. It was an.
Average of me, of society, yeah.I mean, the times I needed to
tip, I tipped. So doing pretty well OK there.
Yeah. I try to make good eye contact
during conversations. It's important.
I held the door for somebody. You did not.
I did. In fact, did.
(02:38):
I know a stranger. Yeah, it was a it was a a door
dasher, a a little mopeder door dasher.
We were going into a restaurant and he was coming out with a big
tray of things. And I held it and he like, he
almost gave it back to me a little bit too much.
He was like, thank you so much, man.
And I was like, OK. Let's.
Settle down. Somewhere you have somewhere to
be with some hot food. So let's let's keep it moving a
(03:00):
little bit. Yeah, but so Jenny, you are you
told us off air is I hope your mind says you are bicoastal.
I am yeah. And I know this is an off talked
about subject, but how would youcompare this social just like
sort of daily nuance etiquette between the acronym cities LA
and NYC? Well, I definitely am noticing
(03:24):
LA is much friendlier. People are, are nicer, yeah.
But New York is like when you get someone who likes you,
they're like they're locked in, they're into it, right.
So like in my building that I live in, there is like, it's a
just like a different vibe. So like, I have a, there's a 95
(03:44):
year old woman who just sits on the stoop and has like a shirt
over her grocery cart that says I'm 90.
It's adorable. She's lived there for 50 years
in the same building. No shit.
And. So.
She she's great, right. But then like there's a bunch of
like young kind of tech people in my building who I don't think
(04:08):
I've made eye contact with me. The non rent controls.
Yeah. And I'm like in Lai know all my
neighbors. I'm friends with everybody or
like I say hi, whatever. So it's been a little bit of an
adjustment to like I live here, you live there.
That is it. The walls separate us, yes.
The the one thing I will say about New York is that they
understand how to get out of theway in a way that they don't in
(04:31):
LA. So I view it as very polite to
be like, I'm not going to be in your way right now.
So yeah. LA is very much like I it's,
there's a, there's a, there's a falsity of like thinking that
being in the way is like a good thing.
You're like, you're like, you'rejust like, oh, let me create
this like environment for you. It's like, I, I see the
(04:52):
environment. Can I just move through it
without having to like, you know, bow my head and, and thank
you. And like, like the door dasher,
it's like you can, I was just holding the door from just go do
your job. You don't.
Freaked him out. And he hopped on his little
electric scooter and whizzed away.
Yeah. I feel like the big thing is you
(05:13):
can always tell, especially in New York, if someone's not from
there because they will stop in the middle of the entrance to
the turnstile or exit their turnstile and check where they
are every time, right in the middle.
And you're just like, please just go to the side.
Like the subway, like it hasn't fully spun through yet and
they're stopping. Yeah, they're like right before
you get to the turnstiles, and they're just like, I need to see
(05:35):
where I'm going first. And it drives me nuts.
There have been times where I'venow turned into a New Yorker
where I'm like, get the fuck outof my way.
And that feels. Good.
Beautiful. That feels.
Great fun opportunity to use an accent too.
Get the fuck out of my way. Yeah.
We should go to new. York Yeah, we should.
Oh my God, it'd be so fun. Fun in New York just to yell at
(05:57):
people, Yeah. I've been in Queens for two
months. I'm like, I'm from fucking
Queens, I'm from fucking Queens.Sunnyside Black.
Why do you take the brown line right?
Isn't that? That's what I did this morning.
The brown color one is the what?EU, the V the W.
Is the yellow brown? J The JMZ I think the JMC is it
(06:23):
the? JMC is the brown one.
The. Jenny motherfucking the green.
I'm on the seven. It's purple.
I'm on the purple line like a #7.
That New York boroughs sound so much cooler than like, LA
neighborhoods like Bronx, Queens, Highland.
We have like, yeah, Silver Lake,just like Culver.
(06:46):
City, it's nice. Santa Monica.
I know it's not LA, but whatever.
Fuck you guys, really. No, no they're not.
It's a sound they have their owngovernment.
They're alone. It's because they it's.
Because a little piece of shit over Yeah, no.
It's because all the, the rich people, sorry to call them by
their SO refer to them so informally.
(07:08):
But like they, they wanted, theywanted to keep their like LAPD
wasn't enough. So they like made their own
government so they could have their own.
It's always about having your own Police Department, isn't it?
Not your. Own criminals.
Speaking of crime, I have a casefor you.
Too. Yes.
And I think that I'm going to need some help sussing it out
because it's the type of case that that where I'm incredibly
(07:31):
guilty of it and I don't want tobe judged, OK.
But you you don't, OK. That's perfect.
This is a perfect. So you don't want to be judged,
but you know. I know it's wrong.
Yeah, I know it's wrong. OK, Yeah.
Is this? But like where is the line?
So I I need your help like figuring out where is the line.
(07:52):
Is this and is this something that would occur to us or?
Is it? I'm sure we've all come toe to
toe with this green eyed monster.
Yeah, thick case. Awfully thick.
Awfully thick, yeah. There's a lot of literature.
About this. Oh my gosh.
My heart started pounding. Yeah, don't worry.
Don't want to be guilty of this too.
(08:13):
Yeah, alright, we might implicate.
Is this a? Is this a gendered thing?
We're going to find out we're. Going.
To find out, should we crack it open?
Let's crack it open. Jessica how was informed trauma
therapy? Oh my God, I learned so much
about myself. Oh yeah.
(08:34):
Yeah, yeah. And one example, Oh, I just
learned that like, you know, thethings that I do are I do them
and like we all just do things. And like once you realize the
doing, then the undoing can be done that.
Is so. True.
That's very informative. Yeah.
That's pretty, yeah. I feel super.
The things we do, we do. We do them.
(08:57):
Oh. My gosh.
And like. Yeah.
I appreciate like learning this on such a beautiful hike.
I know. Yeah, what did you say this one
once again. We're currently in the Verdugo
Heights. Oh my God.
Yeah. I knew it.
Doesn't that mean? Axe murderer in Spanish.
Does it? I think or executioner of some
sort. I don't, I don't know.
(09:18):
I'm not bilingual. I'm white.
I me too too. Oh.
My gosh. And that was part of the
informed trauma was really dealing and of confronting my
inability to speak more languages.
Lack of linguistics. Yeah.
You know, actually, you know what I think it is.
(09:38):
There's a baseball player and they call him the Executioner,
and his last name's Verdugo. Is that what it is?
Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.
Alex Verdugo. OK, wow, OK.
Have you ever done ketamine before?
I've played baseball. They're kind of similar.
Yeah. OK, Yeah, you're both like
knocking stuff out of the park, you know what I mean?
Yeah, we're out of the bases on this. 1.
(10:00):
I'm getting a text. I'm getting a.
Text. Oh, it's.
It's Mikey, my boyfriend. I can't believe you get.
Service out here, I can't believe.
Yeah. No, no, no.
If I hold it, it's the three dots.
OK. Oh, you still have dots on your?
Oh, he's sending you a text? 3 dots.
Oh, OK. Well, I guess we can carry on.
Yeah, you. Said we needed to talk.
What does that? What do you think that means?
(10:22):
I think that means, I mean, I'm not, I don't have informed.
I think you might, I have some ketamine if you want some
because do you mind? Yeah.
Actually, yeah, I think you might need a little bit.
Because I'm actually kind of freaking.
Out loosey, loosey goosey for whatever that means because it's
pretty intense. I'm going to.
Text him back. OK, OK.
Oh. He's right.
He's writing again. Alright.
Oh, that wasn't enough. That wasn't enough, oh, he said.
(10:46):
I think this has run its course and we should see other people.
Oh my gosh, that's so kind of him to be so forward with you.
I'm a little heartbroken right now.
You know what? Ketamine will fix that.
OK, we'll like pull it out now because I'm about to lose it.
Yeah, I'm about to lose. It can we get Terry a bump?
(11:07):
He's he's starting to lose it. I'm sweating it's.
My bag of ketamine. Please take it Terry, just.
Can you remind me? Wow.
Oh, OK, OK, that went away faster than I thought.
It's instant release. It's really.
Good. This this was this was the guy
you met at at all seasons, correct?
(11:29):
Yeah, 8 months ago. We started dating 8 months ago.
Oh my. Gosh, didn't you just move in
together? Were you a fish?
Well. I mean, yeah, we, I was packing
to move in with him, OK? He's been, he's been kind of
like he's been weird about it because he's been saying like,
oh, like I'm just not quite yet.We're not there yet.
But I was packed up and ready tomove in so.
(11:50):
And permission to say this. It sounds like there were signs
though, right? Was there signs?
I think I think that he's not ready for a relationship yet was
maybe a sign. And again, I haven't had
informed therapy. So I I'll refer to you Carla on.
This well look well Carla is my second name.
Jessica, Carla. You know I prefer Jessica, but I
(12:11):
will accept Carla. I apologize.
I'm just still I'm sorry I'm white.
It's. OK, it's OK, Hank.
So. Go behind right now.
Oh wow, OK, well I guess we're both on a on a journey.
So I forgot what the question was because I am on a lot of
were there were. There were there signs for
Terry. Oh well, OK, Terry.
(12:34):
Terry did, like, not give you a set of keys when you asked for
one. He didn't.
Give me a set of keys. He also like to take separate
cars to places too, I thought. That was just because his car
was so messy. Oh, I thought it's because he
hated the environment. That kind of makes it so much
better. Easy, you didn't want.
To Oh, that's true. That is true.
(12:55):
Yeah, he was trying to really fuck the environment.
Yeah, I guess it's a good. Oh, and and and just.
Start the nature. Starting to think I dodged a.
Bullet yeah, I also think didn't, didn't Terry give you
like 3 different phone numbers? Yeah, he said that they were for
one that he gives to family members, one that he gives to
(13:15):
business associates and the other one is just a cell.
You got all three? I got all three, but he really
wouldn't answer any of them. But he texted me from the
general cell. Yeah, it said, it said it said
Terry, which is also my name. Terry, General Cell.
And I thought we were so well matched because we both have
this Terry and Terry. Yeah, that's.
(13:35):
So. Cute.
Mine's with an A and his is withan E so I thought it was cute.
Terry. Terry.
Terry, it's Terry. That's terrible.
Are you doing? OK, I mean, no, I'm so sweaty.
I'm so heartbroken. I can't.
Oh no, we just stepped in some dog shit.
That's the least of my problems,but it's still a big problem.
(14:04):
All rise for the Honorable JudgeJenny Zagrino.
Hello. Hello.
Wow, what a journey that was. Yeah, I'm really excited to just
delve into this. Yes, OK.
It's. Really nice to get out.
In nature. Yeah.
What do you guys think the crux of the case was?
I see two things here. OK, And they could be they
(14:26):
could, I could be over 2 on thisone.
My my first instinct was having a phone out on a hike.
So like technology versus nature?
Yeah, OK. Because you did set us up in a
nature so that that was just like it put a little like green
flag in my head to be like understand.
And then the second one just I think a little more obvious and
(14:46):
I maybe this is what you were thinking is making your
relationship troubles everybody else's issue.
I saw answering a text, so not kind of in your world, but like
answering a text when you're with other people.
OK, big faux pas. Yeah, right.
(15:08):
Taking your phone out. And then I think actually I just
think that that's it. And then I think the.
Like that's the bad and everything else is.
Good. Everything else is like, yeah,
whatever. We're friends, we're all talking
about relationships. Yeah, I mean, I what I was going
for in that is breaking up via text.
Oh, that's never happened to me.Before, that's never happened.
(15:31):
You've never done that to someone before.
I have OK, I have told someone that it's not going to work out
after like a week to like 2 weeks of dating somebody, but
I've never been in an 8 month relationship like you and Terry
and Terry, Terry and Terry from Beverly, MA.
(15:53):
Oh my God, Terry. Terry, I'm so sad that Terry
broke your heart. Terry.
Yeah. But if if I was dating that
person for like more than a month and like we've gone on
several dates, then then yeah, I'm going to call them and break
up in person or break up in person.
(16:15):
Yeah, I was way off. I don't know if that makes me
like complicit with like breaking up over text.
Have you? I no, not like a nothing 8 you
said eight months, nothing longer than 8 months, But for
sure texts like kind of what you're talking about is like a
whatever situation ship like a couple dates, a couple hookups,
(16:36):
whatever. And then it's like I'm not
feeling it. And it's, I think in those
situations, a text fits the billa little bit because because a
more official breakup kind of makes it seem like it was bigger
than what it was, which is like a little bit of an insult to the
the person is being break up with a little bit being like,
oh, I didn't know. You know, I think three dates is
(16:58):
if it's after three dates, wow, then you need to you need to
call, call like you don't have to be in person, but it can be a
phone call. If it's like 3 months it needs
to be in. Person yeah, and but I I'm I
don't necessarily disagree, but I'm like curious as to why?
Why does it have to be in personafter three months?
(17:19):
Just because otherwise it's a slap in the face to the person
that you've been having sex with.
Tell me why I'm a piece of shit.Tell me why I'm a trash.
I don't. I'm just like asking.
No, I. I'm not asking.
For a friend. I'm not going to argue that
Terry isn't trash, but I do. I'm trying to put myself in your
(17:44):
shoes in the situation, Terry, with an A situation is that like
I think there are some situations run a small way.
If I were to be broken up with, I would kind of want that news
to come to be fed to me in a text because that sort of I
don't know, there's there's a sting both ways.
It's a sting because it's like, oh, they didn't think I was
(18:05):
worth a in person conversation. But then there's also times
where it's like a breaking up tomy face is like I they have to
see my reaction and like no, andlike my emotional, my emotions
are like played out in real timein front of the person hurting
me, which is which is it almost feels a little bit like
bullying. It's.
Not a lot like bullying. Well, OK, I think you can also
(18:29):
take it from two sides though, the person getting dumped and
the person in the dumping dumping.
So if you are know you're getting dumped by someone you've
been dating for three months andyou know they're going to dump
you, would you opt in for the text or the phone versus the
person who's doing the dumping? Opt in push notifications,
that's kind of right, yeah. I, I as a person doing the
(18:49):
dumping would definitely do it in person.
I think as knowing I was going to get dumped after three
months, I, I think it would still warrant a person because
three, OK, so three months is when you've decided I either
want to be with this person or Idon't.
OK, that's kind of like my test is like.
(19:10):
I can keep that going way longer.
Wow. OK, the mask stays on.
OK, that's AI mean that is that is a lot of emotional clarity to
like, no, at three months you'relike, oh, this isn't right or
this is right, 'cause like I've been in relationships that I've
gone on a year where I'm like, oh wow.
Are you sure? Are you sure?
Were there a point? Were there OK, here's the
(19:32):
question. Was it you were like, oh, I can
handle this thing or like, I don't really like this thing,
but I think it's OK. And then you're like, it's
really not OK. Or was it like 9 months in
suddenly they were you. They became like super abusive
and you were like Oh my God, this is not who I thought it was
with. That second one is a.
(19:54):
Little. Domestic I saw.
A reel. I saw a reel recently of a woman
who flicked her boyfriend's forehead and it filled me with
so much rage. Like flicking.
Versus just like just slap them.Like just don't flick me.
Just punch me like this, this little.
(20:15):
Force, yeah. Like like you wear a bug.
Oh my God. That's what.
I do. Terry says.
You're a bug. That's so true though, because
like slapping, I think most people have been slapped at one
point in the left hands up people have been slapped.
But like, that's like something you can handle, but a flick is
so like, yeah, you're right. It's very dismissive.
It's like flicking a bug. But it's also it's such a like
(20:38):
unique form of abuse that you'relike, I feel like it wouldn't be
so much the pain from the flick because I think flicks probably
can't hurt, but just like the shock of being like.
You know what I don't like is being confused.
And now I'm confused. Confused.
And. Abused and abused because.
You can't go to somebody like they, they flick me.
(20:58):
You feel like what? There's so much plausible
deniability in the flick. Just so rude.
So. Yeah, nobody deserves that.
OK, so, so back to though, do you feel like there were things
that you just let go because youwere in the honeymoon phase and
you were like, whatever? Oh yeah, for sure, yeah.
(21:20):
It was for sure like, yeah, likethings I was like willing to
overlook being like, oh, like, you know, they, they do this and
this like they like get mad at me when I don't post it in
Instagram enough. And I'm like, whatever, that's
just like their thing. And then yeah, but like, there's
also like the like, the, the posts breakup clarity of being
like, oh, no, that was like an like a lot of things added up
(21:44):
was like a bad sign. But during the in the moment or
like during the relationship, it's like, oh, you know, I can
like I can look past that because she's nice to me or my
friends like her or whatever. Those are the two other reasons
it's amazing how far my friends like her will go.
It's a big one. But like, if your friends don't
(22:05):
like them, I think that's a big like.
If your friends don't like them,you shouldn't be dating them
anyways. Yeah, because this is.
Friends. Friends know friends.
Do know friends do. Know yeah, must do and.
Some friends. Don't know, see some friends
I've had because that's the other thing is I've had friends
like after a breakup, friends were like, oh, you got to get
her back. And that set me back like
(22:26):
months. Because I was like.
OK, I got to get. Her back, she was so much better
than you. I'm like, no.
That really fucked up. That is the rudest thing.
Ever I showed up that's at her house with signs like in a love.
Action. Yeah, it was bad, James said.
You should come back. James told me to try to do this.
I think James wants to date you.Yeah, I think.
(22:49):
I think 3 months person. So.
So three dates is the threshold between texting and calling. 3
months is the threshold between calling and in person.
This is like exactly the like 3 days without water, three weeks
without food. But again though, if in that
three months you were spending alot of time with that person,
(23:11):
then you can. Push the deadline.
Also to you to think about, are you in a love bombing situation?
Describe a love bombing situation.
So if you, you meet someone, right?
And like, if you immediately start like hanging out with this
person all the time, you start making all these plans and like
you've just met this person, that's probably going to be a
love bombing situation and it will combust and it will be very
(23:34):
bad. I definitely do that every time
I think. You get love bombed.
Or you. Bombed.
Yeah. I'm like, I'm like the.
Worst. That's why.
That's why you dump people over text, you monster.
I haven't done it in a long time.
People always come to me and then get dumped.
I'm just sitting here. I'm.
Just sitting here and I'm like, I can't do that.
(23:55):
Yeah. So a lot, a lot of factors.
I think there's a lot of factorsinto it.
Yeah, yes. Yeah, I don't know.
I'm still kind of touring because I, I, I believe both of
you, both of you, I'm really straddling this fence a little
bit because like I, I do still feel like there is like after
what, the three month deadline. Like that person, if you spend a
(24:17):
lot of time with them, they deserve the respect of being,
you know? I do agree.
Told Face to Face but I also butlike the text is also like.
It might be kinder for them a little.
I maybe a little bit like maybe,maybe OK, would you accept?
OK, let's say Terry with an E text you Terry with an A was
(24:38):
like, I've been thinking about things.
I want to break up. Would you agree to meet me this
weekend and like, you know, recap, closure, whatever, but
like so is, is is the pretext? The expectation of breakup.
The pretext, the pretext of the pretext of the breakup, how does
that, how does that fit with? You in your courtroom?
(24:59):
What does that make you feel? I'm I'm thinking if someone
texts me that I've been intimatewith and was like, oh, we have a
life path together and they go, hey, I'm not feeling this
anymore. I want to break up.
We should talk about it. I would be like go fuck yourself
and why don't you go die in a bog you fucking broccoli.
(25:20):
But wouldn't it be kind of a gift that they gave not?
At all all the. Validation and all the no.
Because this is what I said. This is.
I've already made my choice and now I just need to talk at you
about it. Actually, that's a good point.
And I think because the dumb, the person who was dumped then
(25:40):
just starts filing away all the like, the receipts and
arguments. Then when that meet up does
come, you come in guns blazing. Yeah.
Like, yeah, like it's always. Really fully loaded.
We'll go no contact for six months, then we can talk about
it. And I'm not going to have like
the cloud of I want to get back together with this person.
How can I change da, da, da. It's just like, then I will be
like, you are awful and I'll tell you all the reasons you're
(26:03):
awful and then I will leave. That's that's that sounds nice
and clean to me. I've never had.
I've never had a relationship that clean.
Me either, I mean. I really thought that look.
I've never been dumped that way.This is how my relationships
have have ended is the last 1 ended with a me having to be
(26:27):
like I think you're unhappy. We should probably break up and
that was over the phone because we're both in different states.
And I was like, here's all the reasons.
We can talk about it in like a week.
And we talked about it and then and that was horrible.
It was horrible. Oh yeah, it was like.
You think that you that that wasa mistake to frame it up that
(26:49):
way or? No, it was just, it was, it was
just like a bad relationship that now I was that truths were
coming out where I was like, Oh my God, I've been like this
these last six months have been like a lie.
And then we didn't go. We had no contact.
And then I do the thing where I'm like, I'm a modern woman.
I can have friendships with exesbecause they don't bother or
(27:13):
impact me. And then it just is continually
stabbing myself in the heart over and over again.
That's not a good thing to do. Don't don't contact them.
You go go no contact. Do it.
I've done no contact for like 3 or 4 months and then I go back
and then I'm like this is so stupid.
(27:34):
And then I have then but then I've already I've already
contacted. So I got to commit.
Doors open. I commit to friendship.
Oh no. I hate it.
But wasn't that isn't that wasn't wasn't friendship the
reason? Now we're friends.
Now. We're stuck, we're friends.
This is the worst. OK, I.
Don't like I don't think that just because you talk to a
(27:55):
person again means that you haveto be friends.
No, it does. I'm committed to this.
All right, all right. No acquaintances.
I say, what is it? Elaine Debonen put us very well,
who is a great philosopher. You guys should listen to him.
Polite distance. Oh.
(28:16):
Yeah. It's your kind and your polite
and oh, that's I'm happy to hearabout that.
Goodbye, goodbye. Yeah.
OK. I thought that.
That's very nice. Yeah.
So all of this kind of bit kind of begs the question of I think
we're pretty clear on a ruling, right.
We're at the three day, three dates, Yeah, 2-3 months.
(28:38):
There's three defines the three tiers of communication about a
breakup. So somebody either violates that
in either direction. Yes.
I think One Direction is like less harmful than the other if I
have gone on three dates with someone and then I meet them up
in person and break up with themin person.
Actually, that sounds insane nowthat I'm.
Saying, I mean, that's I would just say if you hold on, if you
(29:01):
were dating for three dates and then was like, Hey, can we meet
up and then broke up with them, they'd probably be like, the
fuck. Is your problem.
Well. Thanks for telling me I think.
I think with like the single digit date rule, like in the
three range, it's it's I think it's not OK to show up to the
(29:22):
next meet up with the intention of breaking up to them.
OK, But like if you're on whatever date for and they like
say something or do or whatever it is and you're like in the
moment, you're like, this isn't working.
Like that's that's a face to face breakup and that's fine.
But I think scheduling, scheduling a hangout to break up
to, to break up with them in that sort of time is like a
little too like. You might be enjoying the
(29:45):
breakup. Yeah.
It's like you're taking too muchpower about it.
Yeah, OK. I think, I think it's got to be
a little more like neutral and yeah.
So that's a violation. Not texting when you should be
calling or in person is also a violation.
So what do we do to the violators of this thing?
If you're found guilty, what is the punishment?
(30:06):
What I would like to do if I were in that if I were the
dumpy, I would like to tell the dumpers close friends 1 secret
or just like one thing that I don't like.
Yeah, you've given me some information that like I don't
want to hear. Let me, I just want to tell
obviously don't like, you know, burn bridges or anything, but
(30:28):
like. OK, they never liked you.
They found this out in the bedroom about you.
They they didn't come to your birthday party and they it's
because they didn't want to or like some some little or like
his Dick hangs to the left. Here's what I was thinking as a
punishment. Too harsh was my secret thing.
(30:49):
Too harsh. I think it, I think it's like
too personal. To be honest, I was.
Just going to say if if somebodybreaks up via text and they
shouldn't have, they just won't get the multi factor
authentication texts anymore. They have to go through the
entire forgot password flow in order to get into their accounts
(31:10):
every single time. That's my, that's my punishment.
That's. Diabolical.
OK. So different ones I think.
So if, if after before three dates, if they meet up with you
or call you OK. So they're going the opposite.
(31:32):
They're being too intimate in this case.
If they're too, if it's too intimate, yeah, then I think
they should drop their phone andthey get a little a little
crack, a little tiny crack, a little tiny in the corner
hairline, a little tiny in the corner I.
Love that. And if they have a screen
protector, it can be the screen protector that cracks.
Their phone is still usable. But if they were prepared, I.
Like that a lot because their phone is still usable.
It's not like damaging hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise,
(31:55):
but they have to look at it and know that it happened.
Before the three months and theyviolate anything, then they
don't have access to any of their excess social media,
including yours. None of it.
So they can't even go back to somebody else.
Even if they're if if they're inthe polite distance.
Or you can't even. You can't even.
(32:16):
Look at. It and then this is the final
punishment is if after the threemonths, if they dump you by a
text, every nude photo they sendnow goes directly to their
parents. Whoa.
Yeah, every. Every.
And their mom especially. Their mom is.
Special secret thing. Their mother, their parents, you
(32:40):
dummy. It's in an e-mail marks
priority. Yeah, you're.
You're a dummy after 10 months, Yeah, your mom is is going to
see is going to see your day, OK.
Gosh, Oh my, I just in that. Dirty mirror.
That it's chilling. That it's chilling.
Oh, it's a conservative on the court.
Oh my God. So funny The Dirty mirror in.
Oh, that is. So.
(33:01):
Such a dirty mirror I. There's so many times I'm like
looking at whatever Instagram Stories and there's like a
thirst trap. I'm like, do you wipe down your
sink? How is it so dirty?
Yeah, why is it such a dirty mirror?
I put so much effort into like your like outfit or body,
whatever it is, and you don't just like move the half bottle
of mouthwash like down a little bit.
It just doesn't make any sense. As someone who is very very
(33:24):
like, big on aesthetics, uh huh.That doesn't bother me actually.
Dirty mirror Dirty. Mirror is like dirty and gross
in kind of a good. Way, But maybe you're into that,
maybe like a mirror or something.
You're just like, yeah, you're alittle dirty girl.
It's OK. That your your blackout social
media thing is like an incredible app idea.
(33:44):
Like I'm surprised that hasn't been invented, and it shouldn't
be invented. Where where you don't get to
control it. Where someone else controls that
you can't talk to any. You never also blackout and all
your content. Yeah, it gets sent to your
current significant other and you're like friends.
So it's like people who can either punish you or look out
for you with the same app. That's beautiful.
Oh yeah. It's quite beautiful.
(34:06):
Wow. Well.
In that case, I think this mightbe case closed.
Case closed, Yeah. You ready, 321?
This is premeditated.
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