October 21, 2025 • 60 mins
This week on Premeditated Opinions, Josh tells the kind of story that makes you want to call your mom... or at least check your Ancestry login. What started as a 26-foot U-Haul and a bottle of ibuprofen turns into a heart-opening story about adoption, DNA tests, and finding biological family in the middle of a pandemic.
Pamela plays emotional detective as Josh unpacks his genetic detective, FedEx letters, and the unforgettable line: “We’ve been trying to reach you about your car’s extended warranty.”
They also cover found family, moving horror stories, 125-year-old houses with zero grounding (electrical or emotional), and prepping for an upcoming trip to Louisville that involves bourbon, ghosts, and Pride.
Other highlights:
- The science and chaos of DNA kits (and why the fine print should come with a therapist).
- Genetic connections, emotional bandwidth, and why “nature vs. nurture” deserves a rematch.
- Louisville plans: haunted sanatoriums, bourbon tours, and accidentally adopting your Southwest seatmate.
- A recap of Dallas Pride and Jen Hatmaker’s book tour, because of course there’s crying, laughter, and a megachurch organ.
If you’ve ever wondered how to trace your roots without losing your mind (or your lower back), this one’s for you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh M (00:00):
In one of the maybe brave things, maybe stupider
things I've done in my life, Idrove to their house and I
remember knocking on the doorand they answered the door and
uh I said, We've been trying toreach you about your car's
extension.
It's a true story.
Pamela (00:35):
You're listening to premeditated opinions because
yes, we thought about it, andthen we said it anyway.
Josh M (00:43):
We are two people who stuck out their brain and
decided to weaponize our brainswith microphones.
Each week, we unpacked anythingfrom politics and religion to
carpool dread and everything inbetween.
Pamela (00:55):
You know, it would really help us a lot if you
followed us on Instagram andYouTube.
Giving us a like and a followis probably the best thing your
thumbs will do today.
Josh M (01:03):
We are not experts.
We are just way too confidentin our own opinions.
With all that being said, let'sget started.
Pamela (01:10):
This past weekend you realized why we need ibuprofen
in our 40s.
Josh M (01:15):
Oh my god.
So much painkiller.
Okay, so here's what happened.
What happened was What happenedis I helped a family member of
my, well, uh really an extensionof my family.
I I helped them move.
And I flew to Virginia um andhelped get a bunch of things
(01:38):
packed up, and then loaded a20-foot U-Haul and a 26-foot
U-Haul.
And then I drove the 26-footerand somebody else drove the
20-footer from Virginia Beach toa delightful little small town
in eastern Maryland, right onthe coast.
And then we unloaded the26-footer.
(02:00):
The 20-footer is uh it probablystill has things in it at the
time of this recording, but umwe unloaded all that stuff.
And okay, so here's what wentdown.
So I actually have kind of acomplicated family structure.
I am an adopted child.
I've known I was an adoptedchild from the time I was
(02:22):
little.
I I I really don't have anymemory of a reveal.
Like, I don't have any memoryof like learning that I was
adopted.
I just always knew, which meansthey must have been talking
about it from the time I waslittle bitty.
So I was born in Boise, Idaho,but only lived there 11 days.
Pamela (02:38):
Oh my God, so many things are starting to just make
sense and click together.
Like, yup, yeah, that tracks.
Josh M (02:45):
Yeah.
So we at 11 days old, I wasflown from Boise, Idaho to
Wichita, Kansas, where myadopted parents received me and
uh, you know, and I grew up withthem.
And so um, it wasn't until my18th birthday that some
documentation was released to methat I um the uh where I had
more information about myadoption, but I also found out
(03:09):
about some details of thatadoption at the time that made
me think, uh, I don't think I'mgonna really pursue my
biological family.
Not because they're any sort ofbad or toxic people.
There was just enoughcomplication within all of it to
where I was like, it just seemssafer for all parties involved
if I just sort of keep on livingthe life that I have and not
(03:33):
really pursue anything else.
So one second.
Pamela (03:36):
So how did you happen upon this documentation?
Was it mailed to you?
Josh M (03:41):
So it's actually my adopted dad, he had some
documentation in his possessionfrom my uh adoption proceedings,
essentially, because it's alegal process.
Pamela (03:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh M (03:51):
So there wasn't much.
Like uh he didn't have much.
He he had a few shreds ofdocumentation, and I learned my
biological mother's name.
Pamela (04:02):
Um wait, were like were you in contact with him?
Josh M (04:05):
My adopted dad, yeah.
Your adopted dad, got it.
My adopted dad, yes.
My biological dad, no.
Pamela (04:11):
So he held on to this until you were 18.
And then, wow, okay.
Josh M (04:15):
Well, and technically, and and you know, I this is
where there is a little bit of agap in my knowledge, in that my
adoption in Idaho was what'scalled a closed adoption.
So legally, I'm not permittedto know anything about that
adoption um until I become untilI turn 18.
(04:35):
And legally, my biologicalfamily is not really supposed to
know anything about mywhereabouts ever.
And that's how closed adoptionswork.
And there's actually a wholeconversation for a different day
about there's a lot of people,a lot of adopted kids who are
pushing back against that systemnow and basically saying, you
know, this isn't serving us andwe need to reevaluate, but
(04:56):
that's a whole differentdialogue.
In 2020, there's this weirdthing called COVID that
happened.
Pamela (05:03):
And tell me more about that.
Josh M (05:04):
Yeah, I know.
Uh it's unheard of to allparties involved.
But I had a lot of time on myhands, and one of the things
that I did during COVID was Idecided, uh, you know, be as an
adopted kid, one of the thingsthat you don't have is access to
your medical history.
And so for several years beforethat, I had been getting blood
(05:27):
panels every six months and um,you know, just kind of staying
on top of diabetes andcholesterol and things, trying
to, you know, I don't have anyhistory to work with, so I'm
just gonna work with the datathat I can get.
Pamela (05:39):
Yeah.
Josh M (05:40):
So Ancestry.com started a program where you could send
in a DNA sample and they wouldtest that sample for like 160
different genetic diseases,conditions, things like that.
And honestly, my thoughtprocess was okay, I know this is
gonna land me in some databasesomewhere and all that.
(06:00):
But the trade-off was I wantedto be able to tell my kids about
anything.
It wasn't even for me, I swear.
It wasn't in it wasn't about meat all.
It was I wanted to be able tosay to them, hey, keep an eye on
these things because you mightbe a carrier because I am.
Pamela (06:15):
So I don't want to derail from your story, but I
have a very similar um, I did23andMe.
Josh M (06:21):
Yeah.
Pamela (06:21):
And had the same thought, like, okay, now I'm
traceable.
Josh M (06:25):
Right.
Pamela (06:25):
Um, but my mother is adopted.
And with my medical history, Ihad a lot of questions.
Josh M (06:33):
Of course, yeah.
Pamela (06:34):
Um and a lot of it, same thing.
It was like, I I would like toknow what I'm passing along if
if I can figure it out.
Josh M (06:42):
So anyway, 100%.
So I did the ancestry thingwith zero expectations.
Like I really wasn't doing itto try and find um any of my
biological family.
I just wanted to do thistesting and be done.
Well, what happened was I wasmatched with some of my
(07:03):
biological family that wasalready on Ancestry.
Oh, and it was wild.
And I'm not gonna use names.
Um, one of them I know is a alistener to our podcast.
Um yeah, and he's awesome, andhis family is delightful, and I
wish I got to see them much morethan I actually do.
But um the I got connected withsome of my biological family
(07:26):
very unexpectedly, and it juststarted down this whole rabbit
hole of relationships and peopleand and figuring out like there
was this whole other side of myfamily that I didn't know, and
and eventually I got to meet alot of them, and you know, it
(07:48):
it's it's been one of the richerparts of my life in in the last
four years.
It's it's been really amazing.
Um but one of the people that Iwas able to get in touch with
was um my biological mom, who iswho I helped move.
So uh again, I'm not gonna usenames yet, I want to get their
permission before I do that, anyof that.
(08:09):
Um but um yeah, so I went outand we've we've spent time with
each other several times, andand you know, we we get along
very, very, very well.
I actually get along shockinglywell with literally everyone
that I've met from my biologicalfamily.
It's wild.
Um but it's it's been so muchfun to sort of add these
(08:33):
relationships to my life thathave been so enriching.
And um, and yeah, so I wantedto do the good son thing and go
out and and help them get packedand moved and and all of it.
And it turned into some realchaos, which was not their
fault.
Um, boy, it it was it was adisaster.
(08:54):
Basically, they are renovatinga home that's under
construction, it's it's behindschedule, so they arranged for a
rental property that they weregonna live in, and they were
told that they could move in uhby the weekend that I was up
there.
And then they got a phone callwhile I was there saying, You
can't move in yet.
And so they had already put uptheir place in Virginia Beach
(09:16):
for rent.
So they had to get out of theirplace in Virginia Beach, and
but they had didn't haveanywhere to go.
And so it then became ascramble to find storage units
and hotel rooms and all of it.
And it it was logistically, itwas a nightmare.
Not for me, I was kind of alongfor the ride, but for them
(09:36):
having to figure all this out onthe fly, it was torture.
And so uh on top of all ofthat, the furniture that we were
moving okay one of the thingsthat that uh my bio mom and her
husband and their family havedone very well is they have they
have such cool, eclectic,unique furniture.
(09:58):
They've collected all sorts ofamazing pieces that I've never
I've never seen before.
Like it's been so fascinating.
They have a piece that is anold school ice box, like to
where it has a little cabinet uhuh in the midsection where you
would load a huge block of ice,and then there's a metal bin
above it, and that was earlyrefrigeration.
Like, and they have one, andit's amazing.
(10:20):
The problem is all of thatvintage stuff is four times
heavier than its moderncounterparts.
Pamela (10:28):
Oh, yeah.
Josh M (10:28):
And so, oh my god, the the They didn't have plastic
back then.
No, and or particle board orlike anything lightweight,
apparently.
Right.
I could not believe how heavysome of this stuff was.
It was shocking.
We managed to get it done, andI had help, um, but it was a
(10:53):
very physical uh weekend full ofof some heavy lifting and a lot
of ibuprofen and some alleve,and you know, like it was it
went relatively well based onthe circumstances they had to
deal with.
Pamela (11:09):
But so wait, are they still staying in a hotel this
week?
Josh M (11:13):
That's a good question.
They were supposed to be ableto, uh as of this recording
right now, today, they aresupposed to be moving in today.
Pamela (11:21):
Um, okay.
Josh M (11:23):
Which I'll follow up with because I'd like to know
how that all shook out.
But they definitely ended upspending more time in a hotel
than they anticipated.
Yeah.
And it was uh that made thingsa lot messier.
Um but the home that they'rerenovating is unbelievable.
It's a 125-year-old property,uh, and it's just the the bones
(11:43):
of it are gorgeous.
But like I was walking aroundin the bottom floor of it, and
they the bottom floor, almostthe entire bottom floor is down
to the studs.
And but the studs, because oftheir age, are basically
petrified wood now.
And so they're like this dark,deep brown color.
And it's just you like push onthem and stuff, and everything
(12:03):
just feels really solid andrigid and and cool.
And so uh that was really neatto see.
I'd never really seen ahistorical home like that, you
know, stripped down that far.
Um, but they'll they have anamazing place.
It's just gonna take you knowsome months probably to really
get to where it's livable.
Because like even when I wasthere, they were getting news
(12:24):
from the electrician thatthey're working with who came to
them, and I I I won't get intolike the nitty-gritty of it all
because it's all very technical.
But basically what he said tothem is I'm gonna have to rip
out every wire in this house andand start over because
everything in here is a firehazard.
And so literally every wire iscoming out of that house.
Pamela (12:43):
What what year did you say this was?
Josh M (12:45):
So it's uh uh I think it was built in like 1900 or 1901.
Pamela (12:51):
Okay.
Josh M (12:51):
So aluminum wiring, um, and like old school electrical
systems.
Pamela (12:56):
Does it, I mean, I'm assuming it has plumbing.
Josh M (12:58):
It does, it's cast iron.
Oh, okay.
And so all of that has to betorn out.
Um, and so they're working onthat too.
Um uh oh, the electrical thatone of the things that they
don't have is the house isn'tgrounded electrically.
Like, so there's no ground pinson any of their electrical
outlets and things like that.
Yeah, I mean, it's just it'sold school stuff, and so uh
(13:19):
they're doing a tremendousamount of res renovation.
It's gonna be gorgeous whenit's done.
Um, and they're essentiallygonna have a a brand new house
on the inside with a125-year-old shell on the
outside.
And so you have the charm ofthe wraparound porch and you
know, the the kind of bigclimbing roof lines and stuff
like that.
I mean, it's it's reallybeautiful.
(13:41):
Um, but then the inside's gonnabe 2025, you know, which is
pretty amazing.
Pamela (13:46):
Yeah, that sounds like it.
Josh M (13:48):
Yeah, so it was good.
It was it was a fun time.
Um, it was fun sometimes.
Uh like it was also a lot ofwork.
Pamela (13:56):
Um well, you didn't really go there just to help
move.
No, like you were there to likespend time and be supportive.
Josh M (14:03):
Exactly, exactly.
And that's a priority to me.
Like, I one of the unfortunatebyproducts of me finding um my
biological family and startingto engage with them is that one
set of that family is 1400 milesto the east, and the other set
of family is 1600 miles plus tothe west.
(14:25):
I am smack in the middle andthey are on the coasts.
And so that just makes it hardto to spend time and and you
know, feel like you'reconnected.
Um, you know, I've got uh somefamily in California.
I've actually got quite a bitof of my biological families in
California, and you know, theythey're living some pretty cool
(14:48):
lives out there, and and there'sdefinitely a part of me that
wishes I could be a lot moreinvolved.
And I I say that to themfrequently, you know, I wish
that I was more present and umwell you got to spend time with
them over the summer, right?
Pamela (15:00):
Or was that the East Coast family?
Josh M (15:02):
So that was East Coast still.
Okay.
Um so the the last time that Iwent out to California and hung
out with that side of my familywas actually New Year's of 2025.
So I went out there, yeah.
I went out there betweenChristmas and New Year's last
year and ended up spending NewYear's Eve there, which was a
ton of fun.
Um like we at one point uh I somy flight out there was pretty
(15:30):
early in the morning.
I remember I had to be at theairport like around 4 a.m.
to catch like a 5 30 a.m.
flight or something.
And so I flew out and I've beenawake all day, and then there's
the time difference, so youknow it they're two hours behind
us.
So I would get out there andyou know, we're we're having New
(15:50):
Year's Eve festivities, andthere's there's plenty of plenty
of party happening.
And then at some point, myparty decisions intersected with
my fatigue, and and I was Youforgot you weren't 25.
Oh boy.
I I was reminded in thatmoment.
Um and man, I remember lookingat uh one of my family members,
(16:14):
and I was like, I'm gonna laydown on the couch, uh and
they're like, all right.
And within I have just almostno memory of actually laying
down and falling asleep, butthen I woke up in that same
couch, fully clothed, and likeit was definitely well into the
next morning at this point, butI was just exhausted, but we had
the best time.
(16:35):
Um, and it's it's cool, likejust to speak to the adoption of
it all, like I hit the jackpotwith this, and I really, I
really mean that.
There are horror stories galoreof biological children or of
children finding theirbiological families.
(16:57):
It can be a disaster.
Pamela (17:00):
And I I really kind of I think they need to put a little
more emphasis on that with theresults that you can that you
can get, because there are somewild stories of people like very
innocuously do the same thingthat we did, you know, and
you're just trying to in yourcase figure out health
information, but you end up, Imean, they do give you access to
(17:22):
your DNA relatives, and umpeople have had some very
shocking results, and they theycan damage, they can cause
severe damage.
So I think they need to kindof, yeah, it's like cool and fun
and and all of that, but therereally needs to be a little bit
more of an emphasis on like,hey, just keep in mind right,
(17:45):
like these results can can umvery well and and very wildly.
Josh M (17:54):
And and so honestly, that was part of my that was
part of how I thought aboutfinding my own biological
family.
I I I knew some of those horrorstories.
I had been around some otheradopted kids who had made
tremendous efforts to find theirbiological families with really
mixed results.
Um, everything from just thebiological families all having
(18:19):
passed away to indifference,like, why are you here?
to predatory behavior, youknow, begging for money and and
things like that.
And so I I knew all of that,and that definitely played a
role in my thought processes.
And so when all of this startedgoing as well as it has, it I I
(18:44):
I already knew how lucky I was.
Like I knew that within withinthis dynamic, like this is going
about as well as it canpossibly go.
And sure, there are things thatyou know, uh uh my biological
dad died in 2010, you know.
And so there are those kinds ofthings that you have to reckon
(19:05):
with a little bit.
Yeah.
But what's been really specialis is how all the other
relationships have really madeit sweet and made it a very
awesome thing, not just for me,even for for my whole family.
My my my wife and kids havegotten to be in relationship
with a lot of these people, andfor it to be as enriching as it
(19:29):
is, I just I hit the absolutejackpot.
And and I, you know, ithonestly, this is kind of one of
those rare moments where it'slike, you know, I I really don't
talk about this kind of stuffall that much.
Not because I'm ashamed of anyof it or or don't want to share
it.
It just isn't it's notsomething I think to bring up,
if that makes any sense.
Like I my my story just kind ofis what it is, and and I'm not
(19:52):
I don't know, I've never reallythought in terms of like, oh,
this is something that I shouldshare.
But I think part of thestrength of letting people into
this kind of thing is itnormalizes it.
Um because uh I've met a decentamount of adopted kids who
almost hid that part ofthemselves.
(20:14):
And and not that it's the onlyformative piece of who we are,
but it is a formative piece ofwho we are.
And and it creates someemotional baggage uh from time
to time.
Pamela (20:26):
There's some things you have to to sort out and
especially depending on thecircumstances you grow up in.
Josh M (20:32):
Right, yeah.
Pamela (20:33):
Versus what you could have grown up in.
Um, and sometimes it's notalways getting away from a bad
situation.
Josh M (20:43):
Right, yeah.
Pamela (20:44):
Um, so no, I I definitely so I'm curious, like
your is your like dad's side ofthe family your West Coast
family, your mom's your East, oris it exactly that?
Yeah, yeah.
Josh M (20:54):
So the paternal side, the paternal side is all kind of
West Coast, most of California,a little bit of Las Vegas, and
then East Coast now is allMaryland.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Um there's not a lot on thematernal side, like there's
there's there's not a lot ofpeople on the maternal side,
there's more on the paternalside, and the paternal side's
(21:14):
who I met first.
Pamela (21:16):
Gotcha.
Josh M (21:16):
Yeah.
Pamela (21:17):
Was anyone surprised?
Josh M (21:19):
Yeah.
Pamela (21:20):
Oh, okay, okay.
I didn't know if that was gonnabe like a sore spot.
Josh M (21:24):
No, not a sore spot at all.
I I you know there were therewere some surprised folks that I
existed.
And uh that was and I I hopethis isn't um rubbing anyone the
wrong way for me to say this,but but to me, that part of it
was a little bit entertaining.
Like it not, I'm not trying tocheapen a serious scenario
(21:48):
because it certainly is aserious scenario, but at the
same time, there was a part ofme that was kind of like you
know, like, because this isweird, and you know, we're all
there's no playbook for this,you know.
Exactly.
Hi, you know, I um but again,like part of what made this so
great was the people that I met,this this whole side of my
(22:11):
family that I met, they justthey handled it so brilliantly
though.
Like it was it was done withsuch care and such um just uh
grace and you know, I I really Ican't imagine it going any
better than it did.
And that's largely because ofone individual, honestly.
Pamela (22:33):
Um and I I think that I mean he just paved the way for
for so much great relationship,it's out of control, but so can
I ask like how that so obviouslyyou take this test, you get
your results, and you're like,whoa, I've got you know, cousins
or um, you know, whatever.
So what does the communicationlook like from from that point?
Josh M (22:56):
Well, early on, the communication was all on
Ancestry.com.
I actually got a message viaAncestry that was one of my
family members, and I'll neverforget it as long as I live.
The only thing that it the onlything that that message said
was, I wonder how we're related.
And because Ancestry had painedthem, basically said we got a
new match.
(23:16):
Yep.
And so uh that was the firstmessage.
And the truth was in thatmoment I didn't know the answer
to that question.
So there's a whole othercomponent to this.
So I have a vocalist friend whoalso went through the process
of finding some biologicalfamily.
And her circumstances were verydifferent than mine, but she
(23:39):
had made this contact, thiswoman named Rachel.
Okay, Rachel lived in Florida,Rachel worked in insurance, um
and she had this side hustlethat was uh what she called
being a genetic detective.
And so she, as a hobby, woulduse data that she could find
online and try and match peopleto each other or try and match
(24:01):
people to things or dates orwhatever.
Pamela (24:03):
She she was I think I found my next career.
Josh M (24:06):
Oh man, she she was remarkable.
Unfortunately, um about a yearand a half after I met her, she
passed.
Um she was young, she uh passedfrom cancer, and it was a it
was brutal.
Um, but she I was introduced toher, and within 24 hours, I'm
on the phone with this strangerwho is very interested in my
(24:29):
whole situation.
The ancestry connection hadjust happened.
I mean, within days of memeeting Rachel, so the ancestry
connection happens, and I meetthis woman named Rachel, and
Rachel asks me basically forlike all of this pretty
hardcore, like uh identifiablestuff.
Um, and like I'm giving her myancestry logins and all of this
(24:52):
so she can see the deeper data.
And so before I know it, andthere's there's parts of my
biofamily, if you're listening,you might not even know any of
this, which is kind of cool forme to to fill in some gaps.
But um she starts within hoursof hours.
I'm getting email after emailafter email from her saying, Oh,
(25:13):
I just found this, oh I justunearthed this.
I and she was she theinformation was flying at me so
fast that I actually had to askher to stop at one point because
it was so much that I was like,I need a little break, I need
to uh you know, just slow downjust a little bit.
And she immediately did, andshe was very understanding and
(25:34):
and all that, because this was alot for me to take in.
Pamela (25:37):
And I'm so what she's doing is she's creating a bunch
of draft emails and then justkind of scheduling them, you
know.
Josh M (25:43):
Pretty much I'm sure she was, you know, and and uh what
was really interesting though iswe we would have this ongoing
dialogue via text message whereshe would kind of send little
updates here and there.
And so she basically figuredout a lot of very accurate
information about the paternalside of my family alarmingly
(26:07):
fast.
And to the point where when Ifinally started meeting them and
talking to them regularly, Iactually already knew a lot more
than what I let on to themabout you know the family
dynamics and and who was who,um, only because I I didn't want
to seem like I had you knowdone some kind of weird deep
dive when in reality I didn't doit, someone else did.
(26:29):
Um, but it was it was also veryhelpful.
Pamela (26:32):
Really?
Okay, listen, this is whatactually happened.
You had all this information,and then you meet these people
and you're like, so what is yourjob?
Oh, okay, you are an architect.
Right, right.
That was your your your doublecheck.
Exactly.
Josh M (26:48):
Yeah, I'm just back checking the situation here.
Uh-huh.
Pamela (26:50):
Um wait, were you born in 84, 83?
Josh M (26:55):
Okay.
Pamela (26:56):
Okay.
Josh M (26:56):
So it was really entertaining, like to get to
piece some of that together.
And then um, she Rachel had aharder time with the maternal
side of my family.
There was there were way fewerbreadcrumbs there.
Um, but she ended up finding ummy biological mom.
And I went back and forth as towhat to do.
(27:20):
And I had already been incontact with the paternal side
of my family, and that was allgoing really well.
And there was this thing in mybrain that was going, dude, you
might not go two for two onthis.
Like everything on the paternalside's gone really brilliantly,
but what if it goes waydifferent when you're trying to
reach out and meet your mom?
And so um I dragged my feet onthat a little bit to be honest.
(27:43):
I waited just a little bit.
Pamela (27:45):
I mean, that's fair.
Oh, and I what I realized it'suh you have a lot to process.
Josh M (27:50):
Yes, and and what I realized is even in myself, I'm
a I'm an extroverted guy.
I love people, I I'm in arelationship with a lot of
people, like I've got goodfriends.
Pamela (28:01):
Um Well, this was a high-stakes relationship too.
Very and you had to essentiallyfigure out how you are going to
handle a plethora ofsituations, yeah, and you know,
and and and you, yeah, and youneeded to figure out okay, if
there is a rejection, right?
Can I handle that?
Josh M (28:23):
Right.
Pamela (28:24):
And if I can, how do I handle that?
Like so I absolutely understandlike why you would hesitate and
really I mean, that's a lot ofself-awareness.
Josh M (28:35):
Well, and I was just trying to be, I was trying to
make sure that I didn'toverextend myself.
And and you know, I I I wassensing in myself that I was
running out of emotionalbandwidth to handle some of what
was happening.
And so what I the other pieceof that puzzle too was I was
trying to do this in a way thatwas still that showed some
(28:57):
respect and deference to myadopted family, who, you know,
for the faults that are there,are still the people who raised
me, you know.
And and I I didn't want to tocheapen any of that either.
This wasn't about reducing therole and responsibilities of my
adopted family as much as it wasabout me just adding to the
fold of just, hey, okay, this isall we can all coexist, but
(29:23):
how?
Pamela (29:23):
Yeah.
Josh M (29:24):
And I had to figure that out for myself as much as
anybody.
Pamela (29:26):
Like I so did you have conversations with your adopted
dad around these things?
Josh M (29:30):
Like how did that my adopted mom and dad knew um
barely barely soon after I madesome initial contact, I started
to loop them in.
Um and especially my adopteddad, he to his credit, he
(29:52):
responded with a tremendousamount of curiosity and not a
single ounce of judgment or orwell, yeah, because you're
Pamela (30:00):
His son.
Josh M (30:00):
Right.
Pamela (30:01):
And nothing's gonna change that.
Josh M (30:02):
No, heck no.
And so I I and I wasn't tryingto even imply that that was
possible.
I'm just now adding some folksto default.
So um so yeah, I I dragged myfeet for a little while in
getting in touch with thematernal side of my family.
And when I did, I decided to goabout it a little differently.
I I had a home address for her.
(30:25):
And um So you showed up on herfront door.
I did.
I just showed up sat in herson.
I think you tried that with JenHatmaker at one point.
Pamela (30:36):
I did, you know, sometimes it's effective and
sometimes it's a restrainingorder.
Josh M (30:40):
Well, man, I I just Okay, hold on.
Pamela (30:42):
I do have to clarify, I don't actually have a
restraining order on me.
Josh M (30:46):
Like I feel like I keep joking about that, but I don't
want anyone to actually thinklike no legal action has been
taken against at least not thatI've been made aware of.
Right, yeah.
Um, so when I when I I decidedit was time, I wrote a letter.
Pamela (31:02):
Okay.
Josh M (31:03):
And I kept it very, very factual.
I said, Hey, my name is JoshMiller.
I was born, you know, July 6,1985, in Boise, Idaho.
And and uh, you know, I I havereason to believe that you might
be my uh that we might bebiologically related.
I didn't even say parent oranything like that.
And um I kept it kind of shortand sweet.
(31:26):
And you know, I was I gave someother details about my life to
just try and verify identity andthings like that.
Pamela (31:32):
So did you know for sure that she was your mother?
Josh M (31:35):
I I yeah.
Okay, okay, which I did notreveal at the time.
Pamela (31:40):
Okay.
Josh M (31:41):
Um but i uh there would have been some chance that we
were wrong, but there was almostno chance that we were wrong.
Like, like the the data thatRachel had unearthed was pretty
conclusive.
Okay.
And the one little trick up mysleeve that I had was when I
sent this letter to her, I sentit via FedEx overnight envelope.
Because when a FedEx envelopearrives at your door, tracking.
(32:04):
Yeah, there's tracking, andyou're gonna take it a little
bit more seriously, right?
Like, like if a FedEx envelopehits your porch, you're like,
oh, what's this?
And you pretty much open itimmediately, you know it's
something with some level ofimportance to it.
And so it's great marketing.
It is, yeah.
This episode's sponsored byFedEx Office for all your
packing and chipping needs.
(32:25):
So I sent it to her in a FedExovernight envelope, and and at
the end of the letter, I justput, hey, if it if I'm
incorrect, if if we're notrelated, no worries.
Um, my apologies.
Um, however, if you want tolearn a little bit more, here's
my personal email.
And I just gave my email andthat was that.
(32:45):
Because I wanted to give her anout.
Pamela (32:48):
Yeah.
Josh M (32:49):
If she needed it.
Because I have absolutely noidea what this person's life is
right now.
And I don't know if I'm lobbinga grenade into something that I
don't want to lob a grenade.
That's not my intention at all.
So I wanted to give everyopportunity for her to just
light that on fire and forgetabout it.
And I think two days after itarrived, I got an email, and the
(33:13):
subject of the email was it'sme.
And it was her.
And so we um we correspondedvia email a little bit.
This is all still during theheight of COVID.
Um, and so you know, we wereall communicating a little
differently throughout thatseason.
Um, and so eventually we did uha Zoom call.
(33:36):
Um and that was kind of ourfirst introduction.
And off camera on a Zoom call,I had a very stout tequila pour.
Um very stout.
And it's funny that one point Ikind of absent-mindedly picked
it up and took a little drinkout of it, and she laughed and
she showed me her very stoutwine glass pour that she had
sent in.
Pamela (33:56):
Oh, you're like, we're definitely related.
Josh M (33:59):
Oh, it's so funny.
Um, but yeah, it was uh it'sbeen so enriching.
Um, and it's something that Iwould love to talk more about
just on this platform and andall that.
I want to get some permissionfrom folks before I start naming
names because largely this islike I none of this is on social
media.
No, I it's not any you you cantry and find these people
(34:19):
through Facebook if you want,like through my stuff, you're
not going to guess who it is.
Um you know that I I've kept itall um just kind of close to
the vest just to try and notoverwhelm or and I'll be honest
too.
One of the things that thatI've really worked at in this
(34:41):
process is to make sure that uhI never cheapen my adopted
family's roles and experiencesand efforts and all of that.
And yeah, I can't say thatenough.
Like it it's very important tome to to not overshadow that
stuff.
Um and at the same time, youknow, these these connections
(35:03):
have become some of the mostenriching parts of my life.
Pamela (35:05):
Yeah.
Josh M (35:06):
And um I am excited to talk about these people.
Pamela (35:10):
I am excited for and I'm sure our Singapore subscribers
are very much looking forward tohearing this.
Right.
Josh M (35:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Pamela (35:19):
So you're like you keep you keep it close to the vest,
except now it's worldwide.
Josh M (35:23):
Well, right, exactly.
Yeah, it's on the internet.
Um, but honestly, what would bereally cool, and I'm I'm
literally having this idea inthis moment right now, but what
would be really interesting isat some point to to have a a
deeper conversation about this,but to involve some of my
biological family.
That would be really neat.
That would be awesome.
Um, because there's there'squite a handful of them that I
(35:45):
think would do very well uh ityou know at something like this
uh and be very entertaining.
Oh that's awesome.
Yeah, but it's funny, like theapple didn't fall very far from
the tree.
Um my bio dad was uh a hardcoremusician.
Oh and a wonderfulinstrumentalist, wonderful
singer.
(36:05):
Um and yeah, he had a lot of uhjust experience and skins on
the wall in that environment.
Um my bio mom is also verymusical.
Pamela (36:16):
Um so were your adopted parents musical?
Josh M (36:19):
My yeah, yeah, they were.
They were both they neither oneof them really played an
instrument consistently.
My dad played guitar a littlebit, my mom played piano a
little bit.
Pamela (36:30):
Just trying to like gauge into like the the genetic
versus environmental.
Josh M (36:36):
Oh, it's yeah, and that part of it's really interesting
too, because like there's thingswhen I'm around really both
sides of my family, it's funnyhow I'll see myself in them
sometimes.
Like the actions or word choiceor or preferences or things
like that.
Like there's just things whereit's like, oh, we are related.
And uh there was a a momentearly on.
(36:59):
Okay, so um after the after thefirst round of COVID vaccines
came out, I decided to travel toCalifornia and meet my paternal
family.
There were plenty of reasonswhy I waited until the vaccines
came out, and I'll go into moredetail on that some other time.
But the I literally showed upto their house um like invited,
(37:23):
like they knew I was coming.
Like I didn't just roll up andring the bell.
Um but it was interesting, likeI I remember getting on the
plane to fly out there and thenyou know, picking up the rental
car, and then I texted one of myfamily members and I just said,
Hey, um, send me your address.
(37:43):
I just got in the car.
And for some reason, it wasthat moment where it all got
real for me.
The fear set in and the nervesset in.
And I I remember texting Kristaand saying, I've never wanted
to hold someone's hand more inmy whole life.
Like I I was it all hit rightthen.
No, and um and so I but I waslike, hey, I'm here and let's do
(38:09):
this thing.
And so, in one of the maybebrave things, maybe stupider
things I've done in my life, Idrove to their house and I
remember knocking on the door,and they answered the door, and
uh I said, We've been trying toreach you about your car's
extended warranty.
That's a true story.
Yes.
Pamela (38:30):
And it's just now like the gravity of that is just now.
You went through a whole DNAtest and all of this.
It turns out you're just a carwarranty salesman.
Josh M (38:48):
Oh yeah.
Pamela (38:49):
I need a moment.
Josh M (39:00):
Okay.
That's actually what I did.
Yeah.
Their reception of me waslovely.
It was so fantastic.
Um, they're so warm.
And I remember sitting uh inthe dining room at one point,
and um there were remarks thatthat a few people were saying
about how even some of the waysthat I moved and talked were a
(39:24):
lot like my late biodad.
And so it it kind of brought tothe surface some of that that
you know nature versus nurturething of you know, how strong
those genetics really are andhow much impact they do have,
and then also how strong theenvironments we're brought up in
are and and the impacts thatthose have.
Anyway, all these things tosay.
(39:44):
Um, we we as as our tiny littleuh you know, grassroots
podcasts that we've got rightnow, I know that we you know,
we're I'm not talking to ahundred thousand people on the
other end of this microphone.
However, I do want to kind ofleave the door open.
If you're hearing this andyou're an adopted kid and you
(40:06):
want to talk about it, I willtalk about it with you.
Like I the this stuff iscomplicated and it's weird and
you don't always know how tohandle it, and and there's a lot
of emotional baggage that comeswith you know this sort of
situation, and I'm not at allsaying that I have unpacked all
(40:27):
of it because I have not, butI've unpacked enough of it to
where I at least feel like Iunderstand it and I can identify
it when some of these thingscome up.
Like there's you know, you youhave to wrestle with some things
when you come out of that sortof environment.
But I am leaving that dooropen.
If if if you want to talk,let's talk.
(40:48):
You know, I'm I'm really opento that.
And I yes, I've it's not loston me that I'm not talking to
just thousands of people, butstill um you know, I'm happy to
do that.
And if you're somebody who isexploring the idea of locating
your biological family or thingslike that, I I also will talk
and I also will warn you that itcan go a lot of directions, and
(41:09):
that my experience is anoutlier.
Um, it mostly doesn't go thiswell.
Um I am incredibly, incredibly,incredibly fortunate that it
has gone the way it has.
Yeah.
So um the other lesson that Itook away from this whole thing
is uh when you're over the ageof 35, you hire movers.
Pamela (41:29):
And wow.
Yeah.
Josh M (41:33):
Wow, we just went all the way back around.
Pamela (41:35):
Wow, okay.
I totally even forgot about thestory.
Josh M (41:39):
It's so I've been so enthralled.
Yeah, my my left knee is stillsore.
Um and at the time that thispodcast releases, it might still
be sore.
Um, I don't know.
Pamela (41:49):
So, like we always tell our kids, like if they're
complaining about somethinghurting, well, we can just cut
it off.
Josh M (41:54):
Right, exactly.
Yeah, at this point, amputationis an option.
Yeah.
I look, prosthetics have come along way.
Uh I could get some like one ofthe cool little blade things or
something.
I'm not cheapening prosthetics.
I am not if you are someone whohas to rely on those, I'm not
making fun.
I'm complimenting how freakingcool the technology is.
Um, but yeah, so uh it was itwas a it was a weekend of work
(42:19):
and of community, and um it wasa lot of fun sometimes, and
sometimes it was a lot of work.
Um but I was thrilled to beable to be present for all that
stuff.
I don't want to just be presentfor the easy stuff, you know.
I I want to be around when it'stricky and hard.
Um, you know, because that'sthat's just part of uh that's
(42:41):
just part of um operating incommunity in a good way.
And so um, yeah, it was I'm Iam glad that they're just about
done though.
And I really hope that that Ireally hope that getting moved
into their actual house, whichwill be a few months from now
minimum, um I hope that thatgoes well.
(43:02):
I I really hope that that'ssmooth and easy and that they
hire like a ton of peoplebecause I think they're gonna
need to.
Your moving days are done.
I'm not saying I would say no.
You'll supervise.
Oh, yes.
I I will want a projectmanagement role.
Yes, yes.
Um yeah, but I I don't need uha hands-on uh in the field kind
(43:26):
of role.
That doesn't sound like evenremotely.
Pamela (43:30):
You're not gonna be putting your camos on and no,
no, no, uh well I look forwardto telling you all about my DNA
experience.
Um mine's quite a bitdifferent.
There is an adoption element toit.
Josh M (43:45):
Nice.
Pamela (43:46):
But um my and I'm not gonna get into it now, but the
relatives that I found who I waslooking for don't speak
English.
Josh M (43:55):
Oh, interesting.
Pamela (43:56):
Yeah, so that's fascinating.
Josh M (43:58):
Yeah, I want to hear more about that.
Pamela (44:00):
Yeah.
Josh M (44:00):
Well, feel teased, everybody.
Pamela (44:05):
They do not consent.
Josh M (44:12):
All right, so um we've had a a slew of fun things that
you listen.
Pamela (44:17):
I don't want to hear you bring this one up.
It's gonna be my turn.
Okay, you bring it up then.
Josh M (44:21):
You you bring it all the way up.
Pamela (44:23):
I'm bringing the hate.
Okay, I'm bringing theexcitement.
Josh M (44:28):
We'll bring it then.
Pamela (44:29):
To Louisville.
Josh M (44:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Pamela (44:32):
So we were actually just looking um this tomorrow.
Uh-huh.
Tomorrow.
Tomorrow.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So tomorrow, um, my family, um,my husband and kids and Krista
and Josh are going with us toLouisville.
And we are so excited.
Um, we are literally trying tojam just about everything you
(44:53):
can do in Louisville in fivedays.
Josh M (44:56):
Yeah.
Pamela (44:56):
Yeah.
Josh M (44:57):
Yeah.
It's gonna be tight, but we'llmake it work.
Pamela (45:00):
And so we were literally just looking at our Southwest
apps, seeing where um we fall inthe line.
Josh M (45:08):
Yeah, and the boarding position.
Pamela (45:09):
Yeah, the boarding positions.
And so we got 1920, 21, 22, andthen Kristen and Josh are 24
and 25.
Yeah.
So there's somebody between us.
Right.
And we are bound and determinedto make this person as
uncomfortable as possible.
Josh M (45:25):
It's the new goal.
Pamela (45:26):
Or they're going to get adopted.
I'm not sure which.
Like they're they're eithergonna get absorbed into our
party or um if they're cool,like if they're lucky, they'll
get absorbed into our party.
Josh M (45:38):
Yeah, yeah, that is freaking awesome.
Pamela (45:39):
That's fair.
Josh M (45:40):
I'm so excited about this trip.
Like, and to be going withpeople who know their way
around, who know like exactlywhere to go, what to do when.
It makes a huge difference.
Pamela (45:50):
So we are going um because the St.
James Art Fair is that weekend.
Um, I because Krista is avisual artist, I was very
interested in her going to thisfair and just kind of seeing
what it was like and seeing ifmaybe even in the future um we
can get her, you know, a boothand get her set up.
Josh M (46:13):
Exactly.
And that's where all thisstarted because we are actively
trying to get Krista into somemore shows.
And there are a handful ofshows around the United States
that really have a reputationfor drawing buyers, the people
who want to show up and leavewith art.
And this is actually one ofthose shows.
And so when this came up, wedid a bunch of research.
(46:33):
And if memory serves mecorrectly, I think we were
actually even looking at bookingAirfare out there before we
even had an answer back onwhether or not she was going to
be in the show because it waslooking kind of promising.
She did not end up gettingselected for this year, but
we're going to keep trying.
And for anyone who's in the artscene, that's just how this
goes.
You have to be persistent aboutit and all that.
But this is a great show to bein.
(46:55):
And because we are alreadyinterested in it, and because
y'all are from Louisville, wejust thought, hey, we were
already thinking about going outthere anyway.
What if we just go and attendand you know, shake some hands,
meet some folks, see if we canum, you know, get in front of
some people who could beinfluential for future years,
and then who knows what happens.
So um, yeah, so this is allcentered around that show.
(47:19):
And uh, if anyone wants to knowmore about Krista's art, you
can find that at KristaMillerArt.com or Krista Miller
Art on Instagram.
Um, and so yeah, it I'm reallyexcited.
That's a centerpiece, but thenwe're also doing tons of other
stuff.
Pamela (47:31):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So I didn't want to do all thetouristy things.
Um, we wanted to do more oflike the local kind of events.
So um obviously St.
James Art Fair is very popular.
Um, we are going to the JimBeam distillery.
Doing that tour.
Doing the tour because we arefans of Basil Hayden.
(47:52):
Um and so excited about that.
Uh, we're gonna swing byWaverly Hills Sanatorium.
Um, so anyone who's interestedin ghost hunters and and things
like that, the paranormal,right?
Uh supposedly, so Louisvillelikes to hyperbole um a lot of
(48:14):
their attractions, butsupposedly Waverly Hills is like
the most haunted place inAmerica.
Um, so we're gonna we're gonnaswing by there and it it should
be decorated for Halloween.
So October weather can bereally hit or miss.
It can be warm, it can be cold,it can be comfortable.
Um, this year seems to bedecent.
(48:36):
Like we're gonna have low lowsin the the mid-50s, highs in the
the mid-80s.
So great hoodie weather, um,which is something we don't
really get to experience a wholelot of here.
Josh M (48:47):
No, we got three days of it.
Pamela (48:49):
Yeah.
Um, yeah, and we're just gonnahit up a couple of just like
Frankfurt Avenue, uh BarstownRoad.
Um, and yeah, it's I'm I'm soexcited.
We're staying off FrankfurtAvenue, and I'm excited to show
you all like Carmichael'sbookstore and the wine rack and
(49:11):
please and thank you, and allthese.
He's like, I don't know whatyou're talking about.
Josh M (49:15):
Oh no, but uh, but your enthusiasm about it makes me
excited about it.
Like, like that's that's allpart of the fun.
Pamela (49:20):
So so it's a very fluid itinerary, but we're gonna
definitely leave you guys withsome memories and things to talk
about when we get back here.
So um, so uh we got that, andthen last night, I think I know
where I got listen from.
Josh M (49:37):
Where?
Pamela (49:38):
So last night, Krista and I went to a book event.
Um, our beloved Jen Hatmakerjust released her memoir, Awake,
and she's doing a book tour.
She came to Dallas.
Uh, she was supposed to bethere with Colleen Hoover, uh,
who wrote It Ends With Us, whichis now a feature film with
(50:00):
Blake Lively.
Um she wasn't able to make it,but her boyfriend, Tyler Merritt
Jen Hatmaker's boyfriend.
Josh M (50:09):
Jen Hatmaker's boyfriend.
Not Colleen's boyfriend.
Pamela (50:10):
Oh, well, that would have been interesting.
Uh but she came out and shesaid listen like at least three
times in the first 10 minutes.
Josh M (50:22):
Nice.
Pamela (50:22):
And I'm like, it it's it's either a her thing, it's a
southern thing, it's uh it'slook or listen.
Or both, you know, look andlisten.
Um, but that was a lot of fun.
Her memoir is unlike anythingshe's written before, but it's a
very quick read, a veryrelevant read.
So to probably not manypeople's surprise, it was a sea
(50:47):
of middle-aged female whitefaces.
Um at First United MethodistChurch, um, which was gorgeous.
Yeah, by the way.
I walked in and saw that uhorgan.
Josh M (51:05):
It's wonderful.
Pamela (51:06):
Impressive, very impressive.
Um and the whole place wasfull.
Josh M (51:10):
Yeah.
Pamela (51:11):
I mean, even up upstairs, the balcony area.
Um, and she was amazing.
I mean, she what she alwaysdoes.
You're laughing, you're you'recrying a little bit, you know,
and she's speaking just straightto you.
Um, so that was that was a lotof fun.
Um, and then oh, Pride.
Josh M (51:32):
Yeah, a couple weekends ago.
Pamela (51:33):
Pride event that you missed.
Josh M (51:34):
Yeah, I did miss it.
I I was doing cover bandthings.
Um, in the pouring rain.
That was a whole other story.
But yeah, uh, you guys went toDallas Pride.
Krista's Jeep was in theparade.
How did that go?
Pamela (51:47):
Uh, really well.
Um, it was hot as hell.
Josh M (51:50):
Yeah.
Pamela (51:51):
Oh, it was so hot.
Um, and we had all the doorsoff the Jeep.
Josh M (51:56):
Right.
Pamela (51:57):
And so we're sitting there, we got the trailer on,
which she maneuveredmagnificently.
Josh M (52:03):
Yeah.
Pamela (52:04):
Um, but we're sitting there waiting, and we had to
wait for a couple of hoursbefore we actually like the
parade started and all of that.
And we had the car running andthe AC going, like it was, it
was it was hot, but it was ablast.
Um it was a good crowd, um, alot of floats.
(52:24):
Uh, we were kind of toward theback, but when we came around
the corner, uh, our familieswere on the right, and the
girls, well, and the and theboys too were just oh my gosh,
having a blast.
Yeah.
And they were just covered inlike glittering swag.
And um, the girls later told mewhen we got back that they had
(52:45):
to that they they were get givenbeads, the bead necklaces, and
they're like, Yeah, we got 83 ofthem.
And so like they were likeseparating all these beads, and
I was just like, We didn't evenget one.
It's fine.
Josh M (53:01):
Well, yeah, no, they're gonna draw some attention and
and get plenty of of presentsfrom people because they are
young and cute and all that.
Pamela (53:09):
But the Dallas police were great.
I mean, you always end up withprotesters and you know that
that kind of stuff, and and theythey kept them at bay.
Yeah.
Like they would escort them,you know, yeah, uh you know, uh
a distance away, which was nice.
Yeah, it was nice.
We felt um, you know, I don'twant to say this.
(53:36):
Based on just, you know, allall the things going on in the
world right now, which we're notwe're not gonna go down that
road, but based on on just kindof the current climate of
things, it was nice to see that.
Like to see them, to see theDallas police like supporting
the event and not just kind ofletting whatever happen.
(53:59):
Um but it was so much fun, itwas so much excitement and
enthusiasm and men and speedos,yeah.
And stethoscopes, we were very,very confused.
Um, but uh yeah, it was great.
Um there's just nothing like apride parade.
(54:21):
Yeah, the I I don't I reallydon't know how to describe it.
It it the energy, the pride.
I mean, I I don't I don't knowhow else to say it.
Like and the encouragement andyou know, the compliments that
were just thrown at us, like allthe way down the street and
(54:45):
camaraderie and yeah, it was itwas better than I imagined,
honestly.
And and you know, we had talkedabout this was our children's
first pride event, and theyloved it.
Yeah, they even though it washot, yeah, even my husband said,
you know, he's like, Well,before the parade started, they
(55:06):
were kind of you knowcomplaining about the heat.
He said, But once it started,like they didn't want it to end,
like, and I was like reallyencouraged by that.
Josh M (55:14):
Yeah.
Did you did you feel like theyhad any follow-up questions or
anything like that from theevent that that were at all
meaningful, helpful, anything?
Not really.
Pamela (55:24):
Um, no, uh, my husband, uh, so he met up with a friend
there, and so it was him and hisfriend and the four kids, yeah,
all together.
Josh M (55:37):
Because you you are I wasn't there, so Josh, her Josh,
took one for the team and umcorralled the kids himself.
So it he was solo parent of twoof his own children and two of
not his own children, and I'mvery grateful to him.
Thank you, dude.
Pamela (55:52):
Um, well, and luckily we have great kids, so yeah, we
really do.
Yeah, awesome.
So he so he's standing therewith the kids with his friend,
and some guy just startsheckling him um about you know,
what kind of uh example are yousetting for your four children,
(56:12):
you know, being in this kind ofrelationship or whatever.
Mind you, they're not inrelationship.
Right.
Okay, like somebody just lookedat them and saw the situation
and made assumptions, right?
Which is the problem, which wewon't go down that road right
now, but he grabs a guy's handand just holds it up and he's
like, gay the prey away.
(56:32):
And I was like, Yeah, thatsounds about right.
Josh M (56:37):
I love that.
Um, well, and you know, it it'sit's an event that's gonna draw
that kind of negative attentionsometimes, and that is what it
is.
I I I feel very fortunate thatsome place as conservative as
Texas is can have meaningful youknow pride events and you know,
for it to go off without anyhitch.
(56:59):
Um, and then for those of y'allwho didn't listen to our
previous episode, we actuallydid talk about um so Krista's
involvement of the parade withher Jeep is actually uh through
some friends of ours, Justin andPatrick, who run an
organization called LGBTOutdoors.
Um, we're actually gonna havethem on as guests at some point.
We're we're we need to get uhthe schedules worked out with
(57:19):
them, but we want to share morewith you about what they do and
um and how you can support them.
But they are they're justwonderful, wonderful friends of
Krista and I've so we've knownthem for many, many years, um,
and just great humans and umdoing some really cool and
interesting things.
And so they'll be on, but theythey really wanted to borrow her
Jeep to pull that float, and soand Krista, of course, said yes
(57:43):
and wanted a sidekick, and sothat's how you got involved.
But um, so yeah, it was I'mthrilled that it went well.
I'm thrilled that everyone wentand uh you know, had uh
positive experiences, not justwith the the the community at
large, but also just a fun hangbetween our kids and I mean the
worst part of the day was theheat.
Pamela (58:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, you know, and other than that, like it
was it was fabulous.
Josh M (58:08):
Yeah, and it was a brutally hot day.
Yeah, I on one hand, I reallywish that I could have been
there.
On another hand, I know Iwouldn't have enjoyed that heat
all that much, but I was also uhplaying a cover band gig during
a thunderstorm.
So uh that that had its own itsown caveats.
Uh and honestly, it went itwent pretty well.
(58:32):
Um so as as a part of allthings considered.
All things considered, yeah.
And so it was it was good.
But uh I'm I'm grateful thaty'all took the time to go.
And I'm just grateful to to youand Josh really for helping
facilitate a lot of the detailsand logistics and wrangling kids
and all that stuff.
Um that was that was a load offof Krista for sure.
(58:52):
Um but yeah, uh we've got uhwe've got a fun weekend coming
up.
Um and you're gonna hear lotsof stories, I'm sure, um, from
this weekend.
Um, at least the ones that wefeel good enough to tell to the
internet.
Uh-huh.
Uh yeah, because there very wellmight be some that we don't
feel good about telling theinternet.
Pamela (59:10):
Um we get into some shenanigans.
Josh M (59:13):
Right.
Yeah.
And if we're gonna shenan once,you know we're gonna
shenanigan.
And so yeah, uh, that's how weroll.
But we uh we've got a greatweekend.
We actually fly out uh tomorrowuh as of the time of this
recording, and I've done nonepreparation.
Pamela (59:29):
Um we actually probably need to wrap this because same,
I gotta clean the house.
Josh M (59:35):
Well, and I I think our laundry situation's okay, but
you just reminded me I need to.
Pamela (59:43):
All right, yeah, let's wrap this up.
Josh M (59:45):
All right, well, it's been fun talking to y'all.
Um, and we'll see you when weget back in the premeditated
opinions.
Pamela (59:56):
If you enjoyed today's episode, congrats on having.
Truly excellent taste andpodcasting opinions.
Following us on YouTube andInstagram is a quick and easy
way to support us.
So if you liked literallyanything about today's episode,
please like and subscribe.
Josh M (01:00:13):
Also, send this to someone who needs to feel seen,
dragged, or both.
We'll be back next week withmore unsolicited insight and
emotionally responsiblespiraling.
And until then, please stayhydrated and behave yourself in
the comments.
But if you don't, at least makeus laugh.
In one of the maybe brave things, maybe stupider
things I've done in my life, Idrove to their house and I
remember knocking on the doorand they answered the door and
uh I said, We've been trying toreach you about your car's
extension.
It's a true story.
Pamela (00:35):
You're listening to premeditated opinions because
yes, we thought about it, andthen we said it anyway.
Josh M (00:43):
We are two people who stuck out their brain and
decided to weaponize our brainswith microphones.
Each week, we unpacked anythingfrom politics and religion to
carpool dread and everything inbetween.
Pamela (00:55):
You know, it would really help us a lot if you
followed us on Instagram andYouTube.
Giving us a like and a followis probably the best thing your
thumbs will do today.
Josh M (01:03):
We are not experts.
We are just way too confidentin our own opinions.
With all that being said, let'sget started.
Pamela (01:10):
This past weekend you realized why we need ibuprofen
in our 40s.
Josh M (01:15):
Oh my god.
So much painkiller.
Okay, so here's what happened.
What happened was What happenedis I helped a family member of
my, well, uh really an extensionof my family.
I I helped them move.
And I flew to Virginia um andhelped get a bunch of things
(01:38):
packed up, and then loaded a20-foot U-Haul and a 26-foot
U-Haul.
And then I drove the 26-footerand somebody else drove the
20-footer from Virginia Beach toa delightful little small town
in eastern Maryland, right onthe coast.
And then we unloaded the26-footer.
(02:00):
The 20-footer is uh it probablystill has things in it at the
time of this recording, but umwe unloaded all that stuff.
And okay, so here's what wentdown.
So I actually have kind of acomplicated family structure.
I am an adopted child.
I've known I was an adoptedchild from the time I was
(02:22):
little.
I I I really don't have anymemory of a reveal.
Like, I don't have any memoryof like learning that I was
adopted.
I just always knew, which meansthey must have been talking
about it from the time I waslittle bitty.
So I was born in Boise, Idaho,but only lived there 11 days.
Pamela (02:38):
Oh my God, so many things are starting to just make
sense and click together.
Like, yup, yeah, that tracks.
Josh M (02:45):
Yeah.
So we at 11 days old, I wasflown from Boise, Idaho to
Wichita, Kansas, where myadopted parents received me and
uh, you know, and I grew up withthem.
And so um, it wasn't until my18th birthday that some
documentation was released to methat I um the uh where I had
more information about myadoption, but I also found out
(03:09):
about some details of thatadoption at the time that made
me think, uh, I don't think I'mgonna really pursue my
biological family.
Not because they're any sort ofbad or toxic people.
There was just enoughcomplication within all of it to
where I was like, it just seemssafer for all parties involved
if I just sort of keep on livingthe life that I have and not
(03:33):
really pursue anything else.
So one second.
Pamela (03:36):
So how did you happen upon this documentation?
Was it mailed to you?
Josh M (03:41):
So it's actually my adopted dad, he had some
documentation in his possessionfrom my uh adoption proceedings,
essentially, because it's alegal process.
Pamela (03:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh M (03:51):
So there wasn't much.
Like uh he didn't have much.
He he had a few shreds ofdocumentation, and I learned my
biological mother's name.
Pamela (04:02):
Um wait, were like were you in contact with him?
Josh M (04:05):
My adopted dad, yeah.
Your adopted dad, got it.
My adopted dad, yes.
My biological dad, no.
Pamela (04:11):
So he held on to this until you were 18.
And then, wow, okay.
Josh M (04:15):
Well, and technically, and and you know, I this is
where there is a little bit of agap in my knowledge, in that my
adoption in Idaho was what'scalled a closed adoption.
So legally, I'm not permittedto know anything about that
adoption um until I become untilI turn 18.
(04:35):
And legally, my biologicalfamily is not really supposed to
know anything about mywhereabouts ever.
And that's how closed adoptionswork.
And there's actually a wholeconversation for a different day
about there's a lot of people,a lot of adopted kids who are
pushing back against that systemnow and basically saying, you
know, this isn't serving us andwe need to reevaluate, but
(04:56):
that's a whole differentdialogue.
In 2020, there's this weirdthing called COVID that
happened.
Pamela (05:03):
And tell me more about that.
Josh M (05:04):
Yeah, I know.
Uh it's unheard of to allparties involved.
But I had a lot of time on myhands, and one of the things
that I did during COVID was Idecided, uh, you know, be as an
adopted kid, one of the thingsthat you don't have is access to
your medical history.
And so for several years beforethat, I had been getting blood
(05:27):
panels every six months and um,you know, just kind of staying
on top of diabetes andcholesterol and things, trying
to, you know, I don't have anyhistory to work with, so I'm
just gonna work with the datathat I can get.
Pamela (05:39):
Yeah.
Josh M (05:40):
So Ancestry.com started a program where you could send
in a DNA sample and they wouldtest that sample for like 160
different genetic diseases,conditions, things like that.
And honestly, my thoughtprocess was okay, I know this is
gonna land me in some databasesomewhere and all that.
(06:00):
But the trade-off was I wantedto be able to tell my kids about
anything.
It wasn't even for me, I swear.
It wasn't in it wasn't about meat all.
It was I wanted to be able tosay to them, hey, keep an eye on
these things because you mightbe a carrier because I am.
Pamela (06:15):
So I don't want to derail from your story, but I
have a very similar um, I did23andMe.
Josh M (06:21):
Yeah.
Pamela (06:21):
And had the same thought, like, okay, now I'm
traceable.
Josh M (06:25):
Right.
Pamela (06:25):
Um, but my mother is adopted.
And with my medical history, Ihad a lot of questions.
Josh M (06:33):
Of course, yeah.
Pamela (06:34):
Um and a lot of it, same thing.
It was like, I I would like toknow what I'm passing along if
if I can figure it out.
Josh M (06:42):
So anyway, 100%.
So I did the ancestry thingwith zero expectations.
Like I really wasn't doing itto try and find um any of my
biological family.
I just wanted to do thistesting and be done.
Well, what happened was I wasmatched with some of my
(07:03):
biological family that wasalready on Ancestry.
Oh, and it was wild.
And I'm not gonna use names.
Um, one of them I know is a alistener to our podcast.
Um yeah, and he's awesome, andhis family is delightful, and I
wish I got to see them much morethan I actually do.
But um the I got connected withsome of my biological family
(07:26):
very unexpectedly, and it juststarted down this whole rabbit
hole of relationships and peopleand and figuring out like there
was this whole other side of myfamily that I didn't know, and
and eventually I got to meet alot of them, and you know, it
(07:48):
it's it's been one of the richerparts of my life in in the last
four years.
It's it's been really amazing.
Um but one of the people that Iwas able to get in touch with
was um my biological mom, who iswho I helped move.
So uh again, I'm not gonna usenames yet, I want to get their
permission before I do that, anyof that.
(08:09):
Um but um yeah, so I went outand we've we've spent time with
each other several times, andand you know, we we get along
very, very, very well.
I actually get along shockinglywell with literally everyone
that I've met from my biologicalfamily.
It's wild.
Um but it's it's been so muchfun to sort of add these
(08:33):
relationships to my life thathave been so enriching.
And um, and yeah, so I wantedto do the good son thing and go
out and and help them get packedand moved and and all of it.
And it turned into some realchaos, which was not their
fault.
Um, boy, it it was it was adisaster.
(08:54):
Basically, they are renovatinga home that's under
construction, it's it's behindschedule, so they arranged for a
rental property that they weregonna live in, and they were
told that they could move in uhby the weekend that I was up
there.
And then they got a phone callwhile I was there saying, You
can't move in yet.
And so they had already put uptheir place in Virginia Beach
(09:16):
for rent.
So they had to get out of theirplace in Virginia Beach, and
but they had didn't haveanywhere to go.
And so it then became ascramble to find storage units
and hotel rooms and all of it.
And it it was logistically, itwas a nightmare.
Not for me, I was kind of alongfor the ride, but for them
(09:36):
having to figure all this out onthe fly, it was torture.
And so uh on top of all ofthat, the furniture that we were
moving okay one of the thingsthat that uh my bio mom and her
husband and their family havedone very well is they have they
have such cool, eclectic,unique furniture.
(09:58):
They've collected all sorts ofamazing pieces that I've never
I've never seen before.
Like it's been so fascinating.
They have a piece that is anold school ice box, like to
where it has a little cabinet uhuh in the midsection where you
would load a huge block of ice,and then there's a metal bin
above it, and that was earlyrefrigeration.
Like, and they have one, andit's amazing.
(10:20):
The problem is all of thatvintage stuff is four times
heavier than its moderncounterparts.
Pamela (10:28):
Oh, yeah.
Josh M (10:28):
And so, oh my god, the the They didn't have plastic
back then.
No, and or particle board orlike anything lightweight,
apparently.
Right.
I could not believe how heavysome of this stuff was.
It was shocking.
We managed to get it done, andI had help, um, but it was a
(10:53):
very physical uh weekend full ofof some heavy lifting and a lot
of ibuprofen and some alleve,and you know, like it was it
went relatively well based onthe circumstances they had to
deal with.
Pamela (11:09):
But so wait, are they still staying in a hotel this
week?
Josh M (11:13):
That's a good question.
They were supposed to be ableto, uh as of this recording
right now, today, they aresupposed to be moving in today.
Pamela (11:21):
Um, okay.
Josh M (11:23):
Which I'll follow up with because I'd like to know
how that all shook out.
But they definitely ended upspending more time in a hotel
than they anticipated.
Yeah.
And it was uh that made thingsa lot messier.
Um but the home that they'rerenovating is unbelievable.
It's a 125-year-old property,uh, and it's just the the bones
(11:43):
of it are gorgeous.
But like I was walking aroundin the bottom floor of it, and
they the bottom floor, almostthe entire bottom floor is down
to the studs.
And but the studs, because oftheir age, are basically
petrified wood now.
And so they're like this dark,deep brown color.
And it's just you like push onthem and stuff, and everything
(12:03):
just feels really solid andrigid and and cool.
And so uh that was really neatto see.
I'd never really seen ahistorical home like that, you
know, stripped down that far.
Um, but they'll they have anamazing place.
It's just gonna take you knowsome months probably to really
get to where it's livable.
Because like even when I wasthere, they were getting news
(12:24):
from the electrician thatthey're working with who came to
them, and I I I won't get intolike the nitty-gritty of it all
because it's all very technical.
But basically what he said tothem is I'm gonna have to rip
out every wire in this house andand start over because
everything in here is a firehazard.
And so literally every wire iscoming out of that house.
Pamela (12:43):
What what year did you say this was?
Josh M (12:45):
So it's uh uh I think it was built in like 1900 or 1901.
Pamela (12:51):
Okay.
Josh M (12:51):
So aluminum wiring, um, and like old school electrical
systems.
Pamela (12:56):
Does it, I mean, I'm assuming it has plumbing.
Josh M (12:58):
It does, it's cast iron.
Oh, okay.
And so all of that has to betorn out.
Um, and so they're working onthat too.
Um uh oh, the electrical thatone of the things that they
don't have is the house isn'tgrounded electrically.
Like, so there's no ground pinson any of their electrical
outlets and things like that.
Yeah, I mean, it's just it'sold school stuff, and so uh
(13:19):
they're doing a tremendousamount of res renovation.
It's gonna be gorgeous whenit's done.
Um, and they're essentiallygonna have a a brand new house
on the inside with a125-year-old shell on the
outside.
And so you have the charm ofthe wraparound porch and you
know, the the kind of bigclimbing roof lines and stuff
like that.
I mean, it's it's reallybeautiful.
(13:41):
Um, but then the inside's gonnabe 2025, you know, which is
pretty amazing.
Pamela (13:46):
Yeah, that sounds like it.
Josh M (13:48):
Yeah, so it was good.
It was it was a fun time.
Um, it was fun sometimes.
Uh like it was also a lot ofwork.
Pamela (13:56):
Um well, you didn't really go there just to help
move.
No, like you were there to likespend time and be supportive.
Josh M (14:03):
Exactly, exactly.
And that's a priority to me.
Like, I one of the unfortunatebyproducts of me finding um my
biological family and startingto engage with them is that one
set of that family is 1400 milesto the east, and the other set
of family is 1600 miles plus tothe west.
(14:25):
I am smack in the middle andthey are on the coasts.
And so that just makes it hardto to spend time and and you
know, feel like you'reconnected.
Um, you know, I've got uh somefamily in California.
I've actually got quite a bitof of my biological families in
California, and you know, theythey're living some pretty cool
(14:48):
lives out there, and and there'sdefinitely a part of me that
wishes I could be a lot moreinvolved.
And I I say that to themfrequently, you know, I wish
that I was more present and umwell you got to spend time with
them over the summer, right?
Pamela (15:00):
Or was that the East Coast family?
Josh M (15:02):
So that was East Coast still.
Okay.
Um so the the last time that Iwent out to California and hung
out with that side of my familywas actually New Year's of 2025.
So I went out there, yeah.
I went out there betweenChristmas and New Year's last
year and ended up spending NewYear's Eve there, which was a
ton of fun.
Um like we at one point uh I somy flight out there was pretty
(15:30):
early in the morning.
I remember I had to be at theairport like around 4 a.m.
to catch like a 5 30 a.m.
flight or something.
And so I flew out and I've beenawake all day, and then there's
the time difference, so youknow it they're two hours behind
us.
So I would get out there andyou know, we're we're having New
(15:50):
Year's Eve festivities, andthere's there's plenty of plenty
of party happening.
And then at some point, myparty decisions intersected with
my fatigue, and and I was Youforgot you weren't 25.
Oh boy.
I I was reminded in thatmoment.
Um and man, I remember lookingat uh one of my family members,
(16:14):
and I was like, I'm gonna laydown on the couch, uh and
they're like, all right.
And within I have just almostno memory of actually laying
down and falling asleep, butthen I woke up in that same
couch, fully clothed, and likeit was definitely well into the
next morning at this point, butI was just exhausted, but we had
the best time.
(16:35):
Um, and it's it's cool, likejust to speak to the adoption of
it all, like I hit the jackpotwith this, and I really, I
really mean that.
There are horror stories galoreof biological children or of
children finding theirbiological families.
(16:57):
It can be a disaster.
Pamela (17:00):
And I I really kind of I think they need to put a little
more emphasis on that with theresults that you can that you
can get, because there are somewild stories of people like very
innocuously do the same thingthat we did, you know, and
you're just trying to in yourcase figure out health
information, but you end up, Imean, they do give you access to
(17:22):
your DNA relatives, and umpeople have had some very
shocking results, and they theycan damage, they can cause
severe damage.
So I think they need to kindof, yeah, it's like cool and fun
and and all of that, but therereally needs to be a little bit
more of an emphasis on like,hey, just keep in mind right,
(17:45):
like these results can can umvery well and and very wildly.
Josh M (17:54):
And and so honestly, that was part of my that was
part of how I thought aboutfinding my own biological
family.
I I I knew some of those horrorstories.
I had been around some otheradopted kids who had made
tremendous efforts to find theirbiological families with really
mixed results.
Um, everything from just thebiological families all having
(18:19):
passed away to indifference,like, why are you here?
to predatory behavior, youknow, begging for money and and
things like that.
And so I I knew all of that,and that definitely played a
role in my thought processes.
And so when all of this startedgoing as well as it has, it I I
(18:44):
I already knew how lucky I was.
Like I knew that within withinthis dynamic, like this is going
about as well as it canpossibly go.
And sure, there are things thatyou know, uh uh my biological
dad died in 2010, you know.
And so there are those kinds ofthings that you have to reckon
(19:05):
with a little bit.
Yeah.
But what's been really specialis is how all the other
relationships have really madeit sweet and made it a very
awesome thing, not just for me,even for for my whole family.
My my my wife and kids havegotten to be in relationship
with a lot of these people, andfor it to be as enriching as it
(19:29):
is, I just I hit the absolutejackpot.
And and I, you know, ithonestly, this is kind of one of
those rare moments where it'slike, you know, I I really don't
talk about this kind of stuffall that much.
Not because I'm ashamed of anyof it or or don't want to share
it.
It just isn't it's notsomething I think to bring up,
if that makes any sense.
Like I my my story just kind ofis what it is, and and I'm not
(19:52):
I don't know, I've never reallythought in terms of like, oh,
this is something that I shouldshare.
But I think part of thestrength of letting people into
this kind of thing is itnormalizes it.
Um because uh I've met a decentamount of adopted kids who
almost hid that part ofthemselves.
(20:14):
And and not that it's the onlyformative piece of who we are,
but it is a formative piece ofwho we are.
And and it creates someemotional baggage uh from time
to time.
Pamela (20:26):
There's some things you have to to sort out and
especially depending on thecircumstances you grow up in.
Josh M (20:32):
Right, yeah.
Pamela (20:33):
Versus what you could have grown up in.
Um, and sometimes it's notalways getting away from a bad
situation.
Josh M (20:43):
Right, yeah.
Pamela (20:44):
Um, so no, I I definitely so I'm curious, like
your is your like dad's side ofthe family your West Coast
family, your mom's your East, oris it exactly that?
Yeah, yeah.
Josh M (20:54):
So the paternal side, the paternal side is all kind of
West Coast, most of California,a little bit of Las Vegas, and
then East Coast now is allMaryland.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Um there's not a lot on thematernal side, like there's
there's there's not a lot ofpeople on the maternal side,
there's more on the paternalside, and the paternal side's
(21:14):
who I met first.
Pamela (21:16):
Gotcha.
Josh M (21:16):
Yeah.
Pamela (21:17):
Was anyone surprised?
Josh M (21:19):
Yeah.
Pamela (21:20):
Oh, okay, okay.
I didn't know if that was gonnabe like a sore spot.
Josh M (21:24):
No, not a sore spot at all.
I I you know there were therewere some surprised folks that I
existed.
And uh that was and I I hopethis isn't um rubbing anyone the
wrong way for me to say this,but but to me, that part of it
was a little bit entertaining.
Like it not, I'm not trying tocheapen a serious scenario
(21:48):
because it certainly is aserious scenario, but at the
same time, there was a part ofme that was kind of like you
know, like, because this isweird, and you know, we're all
there's no playbook for this,you know.
Exactly.
Hi, you know, I um but again,like part of what made this so
great was the people that I met,this this whole side of my
(22:11):
family that I met, they justthey handled it so brilliantly
though.
Like it was it was done withsuch care and such um just uh
grace and you know, I I really Ican't imagine it going any
better than it did.
And that's largely because ofone individual, honestly.
Pamela (22:33):
Um and I I think that I mean he just paved the way for
for so much great relationship,it's out of control, but so can
I ask like how that so obviouslyyou take this test, you get
your results, and you're like,whoa, I've got you know, cousins
or um, you know, whatever.
So what does the communicationlook like from from that point?
Josh M (22:56):
Well, early on, the communication was all on
Ancestry.com.
I actually got a message viaAncestry that was one of my
family members, and I'll neverforget it as long as I live.
The only thing that it the onlything that that message said
was, I wonder how we're related.
And because Ancestry had painedthem, basically said we got a
new match.
(23:16):
Yep.
And so uh that was the firstmessage.
And the truth was in thatmoment I didn't know the answer
to that question.
So there's a whole othercomponent to this.
So I have a vocalist friend whoalso went through the process
of finding some biologicalfamily.
And her circumstances were verydifferent than mine, but she
(23:39):
had made this contact, thiswoman named Rachel.
Okay, Rachel lived in Florida,Rachel worked in insurance, um
and she had this side hustlethat was uh what she called
being a genetic detective.
And so she, as a hobby, woulduse data that she could find
online and try and match peopleto each other or try and match
(24:01):
people to things or dates orwhatever.
Pamela (24:03):
She she was I think I found my next career.
Josh M (24:06):
Oh man, she she was remarkable.
Unfortunately, um about a yearand a half after I met her, she
passed.
Um she was young, she uh passedfrom cancer, and it was a it
was brutal.
Um, but she I was introduced toher, and within 24 hours, I'm
on the phone with this strangerwho is very interested in my
(24:29):
whole situation.
The ancestry connection hadjust happened.
I mean, within days of memeeting Rachel, so the ancestry
connection happens, and I meetthis woman named Rachel, and
Rachel asks me basically forlike all of this pretty
hardcore, like uh identifiablestuff.
Um, and like I'm giving her myancestry logins and all of this
(24:52):
so she can see the deeper data.
And so before I know it, andthere's there's parts of my
biofamily, if you're listening,you might not even know any of
this, which is kind of cool forme to to fill in some gaps.
But um she starts within hoursof hours.
I'm getting email after emailafter email from her saying, Oh,
(25:13):
I just found this, oh I justunearthed this.
I and she was she theinformation was flying at me so
fast that I actually had to askher to stop at one point because
it was so much that I was like,I need a little break, I need
to uh you know, just slow downjust a little bit.
And she immediately did, andshe was very understanding and
(25:34):
and all that, because this was alot for me to take in.
Pamela (25:37):
And I'm so what she's doing is she's creating a bunch
of draft emails and then justkind of scheduling them, you
know.
Josh M (25:43):
Pretty much I'm sure she was, you know, and and uh what
was really interesting though iswe we would have this ongoing
dialogue via text message whereshe would kind of send little
updates here and there.
And so she basically figuredout a lot of very accurate
information about the paternalside of my family alarmingly
(26:07):
fast.
And to the point where when Ifinally started meeting them and
talking to them regularly, Iactually already knew a lot more
than what I let on to themabout you know the family
dynamics and and who was who,um, only because I I didn't want
to seem like I had you knowdone some kind of weird deep
dive when in reality I didn't doit, someone else did.
(26:29):
Um, but it was it was also veryhelpful.
Pamela (26:32):
Really?
Okay, listen, this is whatactually happened.
You had all this information,and then you meet these people
and you're like, so what is yourjob?
Oh, okay, you are an architect.
Right, right.
That was your your your doublecheck.
Exactly.
Josh M (26:48):
Yeah, I'm just back checking the situation here.
Uh-huh.
Pamela (26:50):
Um wait, were you born in 84, 83?
Josh M (26:55):
Okay.
Pamela (26:56):
Okay.
Josh M (26:56):
So it was really entertaining, like to get to
piece some of that together.
And then um, she Rachel had aharder time with the maternal
side of my family.
There was there were way fewerbreadcrumbs there.
Um, but she ended up finding ummy biological mom.
And I went back and forth as towhat to do.
(27:20):
And I had already been incontact with the paternal side
of my family, and that was allgoing really well.
And there was this thing in mybrain that was going, dude, you
might not go two for two onthis.
Like everything on the paternalside's gone really brilliantly,
but what if it goes waydifferent when you're trying to
reach out and meet your mom?
And so um I dragged my feet onthat a little bit to be honest.
(27:43):
I waited just a little bit.
Pamela (27:45):
I mean, that's fair.
Oh, and I what I realized it'suh you have a lot to process.
Josh M (27:50):
Yes, and and what I realized is even in myself, I'm
a I'm an extroverted guy.
I love people, I I'm in arelationship with a lot of
people, like I've got goodfriends.
Pamela (28:01):
Um Well, this was a high-stakes relationship too.
Very and you had to essentiallyfigure out how you are going to
handle a plethora ofsituations, yeah, and you know,
and and and you, yeah, and youneeded to figure out okay, if
there is a rejection, right?
Can I handle that?
Josh M (28:23):
Right.
Pamela (28:24):
And if I can, how do I handle that?
Like so I absolutely understandlike why you would hesitate and
really I mean, that's a lot ofself-awareness.
Josh M (28:35):
Well, and I was just trying to be, I was trying to
make sure that I didn'toverextend myself.
And and you know, I I I wassensing in myself that I was
running out of emotionalbandwidth to handle some of what
was happening.
And so what I the other pieceof that puzzle too was I was
trying to do this in a way thatwas still that showed some
(28:57):
respect and deference to myadopted family, who, you know,
for the faults that are there,are still the people who raised
me, you know.
And and I I didn't want to tocheapen any of that either.
This wasn't about reducing therole and responsibilities of my
adopted family as much as it wasabout me just adding to the
fold of just, hey, okay, this isall we can all coexist, but
(29:23):
how?
Pamela (29:23):
Yeah.
Josh M (29:24):
And I had to figure that out for myself as much as
anybody.
Pamela (29:26):
Like I so did you have conversations with your adopted
dad around these things?
Josh M (29:30):
Like how did that my adopted mom and dad knew um
barely barely soon after I madesome initial contact, I started
to loop them in.
Um and especially my adopteddad, he to his credit, he
(29:52):
responded with a tremendousamount of curiosity and not a
single ounce of judgment or orwell, yeah, because you're
Pamela (30:00):
His son.
Josh M (30:00):
Right.
Pamela (30:01):
And nothing's gonna change that.
Josh M (30:02):
No, heck no.
And so I I and I wasn't tryingto even imply that that was
possible.
I'm just now adding some folksto default.
So um so yeah, I I dragged myfeet for a little while in
getting in touch with thematernal side of my family.
And when I did, I decided to goabout it a little differently.
I I had a home address for her.
(30:25):
And um So you showed up on herfront door.
I did.
I just showed up sat in herson.
I think you tried that with JenHatmaker at one point.
Pamela (30:36):
I did, you know, sometimes it's effective and
sometimes it's a restrainingorder.
Josh M (30:40):
Well, man, I I just Okay, hold on.
Pamela (30:42):
I do have to clarify, I don't actually have a
restraining order on me.
Josh M (30:46):
Like I feel like I keep joking about that, but I don't
want anyone to actually thinklike no legal action has been
taken against at least not thatI've been made aware of.
Right, yeah.
Um, so when I when I I decidedit was time, I wrote a letter.
Pamela (31:02):
Okay.
Josh M (31:03):
And I kept it very, very factual.
I said, Hey, my name is JoshMiller.
I was born, you know, July 6,1985, in Boise, Idaho.
And and uh, you know, I I havereason to believe that you might
be my uh that we might bebiologically related.
I didn't even say parent oranything like that.
And um I kept it kind of shortand sweet.
(31:26):
And you know, I was I gave someother details about my life to
just try and verify identity andthings like that.
Pamela (31:32):
So did you know for sure that she was your mother?
Josh M (31:35):
I I yeah.
Okay, okay, which I did notreveal at the time.
Pamela (31:40):
Okay.
Josh M (31:41):
Um but i uh there would have been some chance that we
were wrong, but there was almostno chance that we were wrong.
Like, like the the data thatRachel had unearthed was pretty
conclusive.
Okay.
And the one little trick up mysleeve that I had was when I
sent this letter to her, I sentit via FedEx overnight envelope.
Because when a FedEx envelopearrives at your door, tracking.
(32:04):
Yeah, there's tracking, andyou're gonna take it a little
bit more seriously, right?
Like, like if a FedEx envelopehits your porch, you're like,
oh, what's this?
And you pretty much open itimmediately, you know it's
something with some level ofimportance to it.
And so it's great marketing.
It is, yeah.
This episode's sponsored byFedEx Office for all your
packing and chipping needs.
(32:25):
So I sent it to her in a FedExovernight envelope, and and at
the end of the letter, I justput, hey, if it if I'm
incorrect, if if we're notrelated, no worries.
Um, my apologies.
Um, however, if you want tolearn a little bit more, here's
my personal email.
And I just gave my email andthat was that.
(32:45):
Because I wanted to give her anout.
Pamela (32:48):
Yeah.
Josh M (32:49):
If she needed it.
Because I have absolutely noidea what this person's life is
right now.
And I don't know if I'm lobbinga grenade into something that I
don't want to lob a grenade.
That's not my intention at all.
So I wanted to give everyopportunity for her to just
light that on fire and forgetabout it.
And I think two days after itarrived, I got an email, and the
(33:13):
subject of the email was it'sme.
And it was her.
And so we um we correspondedvia email a little bit.
This is all still during theheight of COVID.
Um, and so you know, we wereall communicating a little
differently throughout thatseason.
Um, and so eventually we did uha Zoom call.
(33:36):
Um and that was kind of ourfirst introduction.
And off camera on a Zoom call,I had a very stout tequila pour.
Um very stout.
And it's funny that one point Ikind of absent-mindedly picked
it up and took a little drinkout of it, and she laughed and
she showed me her very stoutwine glass pour that she had
sent in.
Pamela (33:56):
Oh, you're like, we're definitely related.
Josh M (33:59):
Oh, it's so funny.
Um, but yeah, it was uh it'sbeen so enriching.
Um, and it's something that Iwould love to talk more about
just on this platform and andall that.
I want to get some permissionfrom folks before I start naming
names because largely this islike I none of this is on social
media.
No, I it's not any you you cantry and find these people
(34:19):
through Facebook if you want,like through my stuff, you're
not going to guess who it is.
Um you know that I I've kept itall um just kind of close to
the vest just to try and notoverwhelm or and I'll be honest
too.
One of the things that thatI've really worked at in this
(34:41):
process is to make sure that uhI never cheapen my adopted
family's roles and experiencesand efforts and all of that.
And yeah, I can't say thatenough.
Like it it's very important tome to to not overshadow that
stuff.
Um and at the same time, youknow, these these connections
(35:03):
have become some of the mostenriching parts of my life.
Pamela (35:05):
Yeah.
Josh M (35:06):
And um I am excited to talk about these people.
Pamela (35:10):
I am excited for and I'm sure our Singapore subscribers
are very much looking forward tohearing this.
Right.
Josh M (35:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Pamela (35:19):
So you're like you keep you keep it close to the vest,
except now it's worldwide.
Josh M (35:23):
Well, right, exactly.
Yeah, it's on the internet.
Um, but honestly, what would bereally cool, and I'm I'm
literally having this idea inthis moment right now, but what
would be really interesting isat some point to to have a a
deeper conversation about this,but to involve some of my
biological family.
That would be really neat.
That would be awesome.
Um, because there's there'squite a handful of them that I
(35:45):
think would do very well uh ityou know at something like this
uh and be very entertaining.
Oh that's awesome.
Yeah, but it's funny, like theapple didn't fall very far from
the tree.
Um my bio dad was uh a hardcoremusician.
Oh and a wonderfulinstrumentalist, wonderful
singer.
(36:05):
Um and yeah, he had a lot of uhjust experience and skins on
the wall in that environment.
Um my bio mom is also verymusical.
Pamela (36:16):
Um so were your adopted parents musical?
Josh M (36:19):
My yeah, yeah, they were.
They were both they neither oneof them really played an
instrument consistently.
My dad played guitar a littlebit, my mom played piano a
little bit.
Pamela (36:30):
Just trying to like gauge into like the the genetic
versus environmental.
Josh M (36:36):
Oh, it's yeah, and that part of it's really interesting
too, because like there's thingswhen I'm around really both
sides of my family, it's funnyhow I'll see myself in them
sometimes.
Like the actions or word choiceor or preferences or things
like that.
Like there's just things whereit's like, oh, we are related.
And uh there was a a momentearly on.
(36:59):
Okay, so um after the after thefirst round of COVID vaccines
came out, I decided to travel toCalifornia and meet my paternal
family.
There were plenty of reasonswhy I waited until the vaccines
came out, and I'll go into moredetail on that some other time.
But the I literally showed upto their house um like invited,
(37:23):
like they knew I was coming.
Like I didn't just roll up andring the bell.
Um but it was interesting, likeI I remember getting on the
plane to fly out there and thenyou know, picking up the rental
car, and then I texted one of myfamily members and I just said,
Hey, um, send me your address.
(37:43):
I just got in the car.
And for some reason, it wasthat moment where it all got
real for me.
The fear set in and the nervesset in.
And I I remember texting Kristaand saying, I've never wanted
to hold someone's hand more inmy whole life.
Like I I was it all hit rightthen.
No, and um and so I but I waslike, hey, I'm here and let's do
(38:09):
this thing.
And so, in one of the maybebrave things, maybe stupider
things I've done in my life, Idrove to their house and I
remember knocking on the door,and they answered the door, and
uh I said, We've been trying toreach you about your car's
extended warranty.
That's a true story.
Yes.
Pamela (38:30):
And it's just now like the gravity of that is just now.
You went through a whole DNAtest and all of this.
It turns out you're just a carwarranty salesman.
Josh M (38:48):
Oh yeah.
Pamela (38:49):
I need a moment.
Josh M (39:00):
Okay.
That's actually what I did.
Yeah.
Their reception of me waslovely.
It was so fantastic.
Um, they're so warm.
And I remember sitting uh inthe dining room at one point,
and um there were remarks thatthat a few people were saying
about how even some of the waysthat I moved and talked were a
(39:24):
lot like my late biodad.
And so it it kind of brought tothe surface some of that that
you know nature versus nurturething of you know, how strong
those genetics really are andhow much impact they do have,
and then also how strong theenvironments we're brought up in
are and and the impacts thatthose have.
Anyway, all these things tosay.
(39:44):
Um, we we as as our tiny littleuh you know, grassroots
podcasts that we've got rightnow, I know that we you know,
we're I'm not talking to ahundred thousand people on the
other end of this microphone.
However, I do want to kind ofleave the door open.
If you're hearing this andyou're an adopted kid and you
(40:06):
want to talk about it, I willtalk about it with you.
Like I the this stuff iscomplicated and it's weird and
you don't always know how tohandle it, and and there's a lot
of emotional baggage that comeswith you know this sort of
situation, and I'm not at allsaying that I have unpacked all
(40:27):
of it because I have not, butI've unpacked enough of it to
where I at least feel like Iunderstand it and I can identify
it when some of these thingscome up.
Like there's you know, you youhave to wrestle with some things
when you come out of that sortof environment.
But I am leaving that dooropen.
If if if you want to talk,let's talk.
(40:48):
You know, I'm I'm really opento that.
And I yes, I've it's not loston me that I'm not talking to
just thousands of people, butstill um you know, I'm happy to
do that.
And if you're somebody who isexploring the idea of locating
your biological family or thingslike that, I I also will talk
and I also will warn you that itcan go a lot of directions, and
(41:09):
that my experience is anoutlier.
Um, it mostly doesn't go thiswell.
Um I am incredibly, incredibly,incredibly fortunate that it
has gone the way it has.
Yeah.
So um the other lesson that Itook away from this whole thing
is uh when you're over the ageof 35, you hire movers.
Pamela (41:29):
And wow.
Yeah.
Josh M (41:33):
Wow, we just went all the way back around.
Pamela (41:35):
Wow, okay.
I totally even forgot about thestory.
Josh M (41:39):
It's so I've been so enthralled.
Yeah, my my left knee is stillsore.
Um and at the time that thispodcast releases, it might still
be sore.
Um, I don't know.
Pamela (41:49):
So, like we always tell our kids, like if they're
complaining about somethinghurting, well, we can just cut
it off.
Josh M (41:54):
Right, exactly.
Yeah, at this point, amputationis an option.
Yeah.
I look, prosthetics have come along way.
Uh I could get some like one ofthe cool little blade things or
something.
I'm not cheapening prosthetics.
I am not if you are someone whohas to rely on those, I'm not
making fun.
I'm complimenting how freakingcool the technology is.
Um, but yeah, so uh it was itwas a it was a weekend of work
(42:19):
and of community, and um it wasa lot of fun sometimes, and
sometimes it was a lot of work.
Um but I was thrilled to beable to be present for all that
stuff.
I don't want to just be presentfor the easy stuff, you know.
I I want to be around when it'stricky and hard.
Um, you know, because that'sthat's just part of uh that's
(42:41):
just part of um operating incommunity in a good way.
And so um, yeah, it was I'm Iam glad that they're just about
done though.
And I really hope that that Ireally hope that getting moved
into their actual house, whichwill be a few months from now
minimum, um I hope that thatgoes well.
(43:02):
I I really hope that that'ssmooth and easy and that they
hire like a ton of peoplebecause I think they're gonna
need to.
Your moving days are done.
I'm not saying I would say no.
You'll supervise.
Oh, yes.
I I will want a projectmanagement role.
Yes, yes.
Um yeah, but I I don't need uha hands-on uh in the field kind
(43:26):
of role.
That doesn't sound like evenremotely.
Pamela (43:30):
You're not gonna be putting your camos on and no,
no, no, uh well I look forwardto telling you all about my DNA
experience.
Um mine's quite a bitdifferent.
There is an adoption element toit.
Josh M (43:45):
Nice.
Pamela (43:46):
But um my and I'm not gonna get into it now, but the
relatives that I found who I waslooking for don't speak
English.
Josh M (43:55):
Oh, interesting.
Pamela (43:56):
Yeah, so that's fascinating.
Josh M (43:58):
Yeah, I want to hear more about that.
Pamela (44:00):
Yeah.
Josh M (44:00):
Well, feel teased, everybody.
Pamela (44:05):
They do not consent.
Josh M (44:12):
All right, so um we've had a a slew of fun things that
you listen.
Pamela (44:17):
I don't want to hear you bring this one up.
It's gonna be my turn.
Okay, you bring it up then.
Josh M (44:21):
You you bring it all the way up.
Pamela (44:23):
I'm bringing the hate.
Okay, I'm bringing theexcitement.
Josh M (44:28):
We'll bring it then.
Pamela (44:29):
To Louisville.
Josh M (44:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Pamela (44:32):
So we were actually just looking um this tomorrow.
Uh-huh.
Tomorrow.
Tomorrow.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So tomorrow, um, my family, um,my husband and kids and Krista
and Josh are going with us toLouisville.
And we are so excited.
Um, we are literally trying tojam just about everything you
(44:53):
can do in Louisville in fivedays.
Josh M (44:56):
Yeah.
Pamela (44:56):
Yeah.
Josh M (44:57):
Yeah.
It's gonna be tight, but we'llmake it work.
Pamela (45:00):
And so we were literally just looking at our Southwest
apps, seeing where um we fall inthe line.
Josh M (45:08):
Yeah, and the boarding position.
Pamela (45:09):
Yeah, the boarding positions.
And so we got 1920, 21, 22, andthen Kristen and Josh are 24
and 25.
Yeah.
So there's somebody between us.
Right.
And we are bound and determinedto make this person as
uncomfortable as possible.
Josh M (45:25):
It's the new goal.
Pamela (45:26):
Or they're going to get adopted.
I'm not sure which.
Like they're they're eithergonna get absorbed into our
party or um if they're cool,like if they're lucky, they'll
get absorbed into our party.
Josh M (45:38):
Yeah, yeah, that is freaking awesome.
Pamela (45:39):
That's fair.
Josh M (45:40):
I'm so excited about this trip.
Like, and to be going withpeople who know their way
around, who know like exactlywhere to go, what to do when.
It makes a huge difference.
Pamela (45:50):
So we are going um because the St.
James Art Fair is that weekend.
Um, I because Krista is avisual artist, I was very
interested in her going to thisfair and just kind of seeing
what it was like and seeing ifmaybe even in the future um we
can get her, you know, a boothand get her set up.
Josh M (46:13):
Exactly.
And that's where all thisstarted because we are actively
trying to get Krista into somemore shows.
And there are a handful ofshows around the United States
that really have a reputationfor drawing buyers, the people
who want to show up and leavewith art.
And this is actually one ofthose shows.
And so when this came up, wedid a bunch of research.
(46:33):
And if memory serves mecorrectly, I think we were
actually even looking at bookingAirfare out there before we
even had an answer back onwhether or not she was going to
be in the show because it waslooking kind of promising.
She did not end up gettingselected for this year, but
we're going to keep trying.
And for anyone who's in the artscene, that's just how this
goes.
You have to be persistent aboutit and all that.
But this is a great show to bein.
(46:55):
And because we are alreadyinterested in it, and because
y'all are from Louisville, wejust thought, hey, we were
already thinking about going outthere anyway.
What if we just go and attendand you know, shake some hands,
meet some folks, see if we canum, you know, get in front of
some people who could beinfluential for future years,
and then who knows what happens.
So um, yeah, so this is allcentered around that show.
(47:19):
And uh, if anyone wants to knowmore about Krista's art, you
can find that at KristaMillerArt.com or Krista Miller
Art on Instagram.
Um, and so yeah, it I'm reallyexcited.
That's a centerpiece, but thenwe're also doing tons of other
stuff.
Pamela (47:31):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So I didn't want to do all thetouristy things.
Um, we wanted to do more oflike the local kind of events.
So um obviously St.
James Art Fair is very popular.
Um, we are going to the JimBeam distillery.
Doing that tour.
Doing the tour because we arefans of Basil Hayden.
(47:52):
Um and so excited about that.
Uh, we're gonna swing byWaverly Hills Sanatorium.
Um, so anyone who's interestedin ghost hunters and and things
like that, the paranormal,right?
Uh supposedly, so Louisvillelikes to hyperbole um a lot of
(48:14):
their attractions, butsupposedly Waverly Hills is like
the most haunted place inAmerica.
Um, so we're gonna we're gonnaswing by there and it it should
be decorated for Halloween.
So October weather can bereally hit or miss.
It can be warm, it can be cold,it can be comfortable.
Um, this year seems to bedecent.
(48:36):
Like we're gonna have low lowsin the the mid-50s, highs in the
the mid-80s.
So great hoodie weather, um,which is something we don't
really get to experience a wholelot of here.
Josh M (48:47):
No, we got three days of it.
Pamela (48:49):
Yeah.
Um, yeah, and we're just gonnahit up a couple of just like
Frankfurt Avenue, uh BarstownRoad.
Um, and yeah, it's I'm I'm soexcited.
We're staying off FrankfurtAvenue, and I'm excited to show
you all like Carmichael'sbookstore and the wine rack and
(49:11):
please and thank you, and allthese.
He's like, I don't know whatyou're talking about.
Josh M (49:15):
Oh no, but uh, but your enthusiasm about it makes me
excited about it.
Like, like that's that's allpart of the fun.
Pamela (49:20):
So so it's a very fluid itinerary, but we're gonna
definitely leave you guys withsome memories and things to talk
about when we get back here.
So um, so uh we got that, andthen last night, I think I know
where I got listen from.
Josh M (49:37):
Where?
Pamela (49:38):
So last night, Krista and I went to a book event.
Um, our beloved Jen Hatmakerjust released her memoir, Awake,
and she's doing a book tour.
She came to Dallas.
Uh, she was supposed to bethere with Colleen Hoover, uh,
who wrote It Ends With Us, whichis now a feature film with
(50:00):
Blake Lively.
Um she wasn't able to make it,but her boyfriend, Tyler Merritt
Jen Hatmaker's boyfriend.
Josh M (50:09):
Jen Hatmaker's boyfriend.
Not Colleen's boyfriend.
Pamela (50:10):
Oh, well, that would have been interesting.
Uh but she came out and shesaid listen like at least three
times in the first 10 minutes.
Josh M (50:22):
Nice.
Pamela (50:22):
And I'm like, it it's it's either a her thing, it's a
southern thing, it's uh it'slook or listen.
Or both, you know, look andlisten.
Um, but that was a lot of fun.
Her memoir is unlike anythingshe's written before, but it's a
very quick read, a veryrelevant read.
So to probably not manypeople's surprise, it was a sea
(50:47):
of middle-aged female whitefaces.
Um at First United MethodistChurch, um, which was gorgeous.
Yeah, by the way.
I walked in and saw that uhorgan.
Josh M (51:05):
It's wonderful.
Pamela (51:06):
Impressive, very impressive.
Um and the whole place wasfull.
Josh M (51:10):
Yeah.
Pamela (51:11):
I mean, even up upstairs, the balcony area.
Um, and she was amazing.
I mean, she what she alwaysdoes.
You're laughing, you're you'recrying a little bit, you know,
and she's speaking just straightto you.
Um, so that was that was a lotof fun.
Um, and then oh, Pride.
Josh M (51:32):
Yeah, a couple weekends ago.
Pamela (51:33):
Pride event that you missed.
Josh M (51:34):
Yeah, I did miss it.
I I was doing cover bandthings.
Um, in the pouring rain.
That was a whole other story.
But yeah, uh, you guys went toDallas Pride.
Krista's Jeep was in theparade.
How did that go?
Pamela (51:47):
Uh, really well.
Um, it was hot as hell.
Josh M (51:50):
Yeah.
Pamela (51:51):
Oh, it was so hot.
Um, and we had all the doorsoff the Jeep.
Josh M (51:56):
Right.
Pamela (51:57):
And so we're sitting there, we got the trailer on,
which she maneuveredmagnificently.
Josh M (52:03):
Yeah.
Pamela (52:04):
Um, but we're sitting there waiting, and we had to
wait for a couple of hoursbefore we actually like the
parade started and all of that.
And we had the car running andthe AC going, like it was, it
was it was hot, but it was ablast.
Um it was a good crowd, um, alot of floats.
(52:24):
Uh, we were kind of toward theback, but when we came around
the corner, uh, our familieswere on the right, and the
girls, well, and the and theboys too were just oh my gosh,
having a blast.
Yeah.
And they were just covered inlike glittering swag.
And um, the girls later told mewhen we got back that they had
(52:45):
to that they they were get givenbeads, the bead necklaces, and
they're like, Yeah, we got 83 ofthem.
And so like they were likeseparating all these beads, and
I was just like, We didn't evenget one.
It's fine.
Josh M (53:01):
Well, yeah, no, they're gonna draw some attention and
and get plenty of of presentsfrom people because they are
young and cute and all that.
Pamela (53:09):
But the Dallas police were great.
I mean, you always end up withprotesters and you know that
that kind of stuff, and and theythey kept them at bay.
Yeah.
Like they would escort them,you know, yeah, uh you know, uh
a distance away, which was nice.
Yeah, it was nice.
We felt um, you know, I don'twant to say this.
(53:36):
Based on just, you know, allall the things going on in the
world right now, which we're notwe're not gonna go down that
road, but based on on just kindof the current climate of
things, it was nice to see that.
Like to see them, to see theDallas police like supporting
the event and not just kind ofletting whatever happen.
(53:59):
Um but it was so much fun, itwas so much excitement and
enthusiasm and men and speedos,yeah.
And stethoscopes, we were very,very confused.
Um, but uh yeah, it was great.
Um there's just nothing like apride parade.
(54:21):
Yeah, the I I don't I reallydon't know how to describe it.
It it the energy, the pride.
I mean, I I don't I don't knowhow else to say it.
Like and the encouragement andyou know, the compliments that
were just thrown at us, like allthe way down the street and
(54:45):
camaraderie and yeah, it was itwas better than I imagined,
honestly.
And and you know, we had talkedabout this was our children's
first pride event, and theyloved it.
Yeah, they even though it washot, yeah, even my husband said,
you know, he's like, Well,before the parade started, they
(55:06):
were kind of you knowcomplaining about the heat.
He said, But once it started,like they didn't want it to end,
like, and I was like reallyencouraged by that.
Josh M (55:14):
Yeah.
Did you did you feel like theyhad any follow-up questions or
anything like that from theevent that that were at all
meaningful, helpful, anything?
Not really.
Pamela (55:24):
Um, no, uh, my husband, uh, so he met up with a friend
there, and so it was him and hisfriend and the four kids, yeah,
all together.
Josh M (55:37):
Because you you are I wasn't there, so Josh, her Josh,
took one for the team and umcorralled the kids himself.
So it he was solo parent of twoof his own children and two of
not his own children, and I'mvery grateful to him.
Thank you, dude.
Pamela (55:52):
Um, well, and luckily we have great kids, so yeah, we
really do.
Yeah, awesome.
So he so he's standing therewith the kids with his friend,
and some guy just startsheckling him um about you know,
what kind of uh example are yousetting for your four children,
(56:12):
you know, being in this kind ofrelationship or whatever.
Mind you, they're not inrelationship.
Right.
Okay, like somebody just lookedat them and saw the situation
and made assumptions, right?
Which is the problem, which wewon't go down that road right
now, but he grabs a guy's handand just holds it up and he's
like, gay the prey away.
(56:32):
And I was like, Yeah, thatsounds about right.
Josh M (56:37):
I love that.
Um, well, and you know, it it'sit's an event that's gonna draw
that kind of negative attentionsometimes, and that is what it
is.
I I I feel very fortunate thatsome place as conservative as
Texas is can have meaningful youknow pride events and you know,
for it to go off without anyhitch.
(56:59):
Um, and then for those of y'allwho didn't listen to our
previous episode, we actuallydid talk about um so Krista's
involvement of the parade withher Jeep is actually uh through
some friends of ours, Justin andPatrick, who run an
organization called LGBTOutdoors.
Um, we're actually gonna havethem on as guests at some point.
We're we're we need to get uhthe schedules worked out with
(57:19):
them, but we want to share morewith you about what they do and
um and how you can support them.
But they are they're justwonderful, wonderful friends of
Krista and I've so we've knownthem for many, many years, um,
and just great humans and umdoing some really cool and
interesting things.
And so they'll be on, but theythey really wanted to borrow her
Jeep to pull that float, and soand Krista, of course, said yes
(57:43):
and wanted a sidekick, and sothat's how you got involved.
But um, so yeah, it was I'mthrilled that it went well.
I'm thrilled that everyone wentand uh you know, had uh
positive experiences, not justwith the the the community at
large, but also just a fun hangbetween our kids and I mean the
worst part of the day was theheat.
Pamela (58:04):
Oh yeah, yeah, you know, and other than that, like it
was it was fabulous.
Josh M (58:08):
Yeah, and it was a brutally hot day.
Yeah, I on one hand, I reallywish that I could have been
there.
On another hand, I know Iwouldn't have enjoyed that heat
all that much, but I was also uhplaying a cover band gig during
a thunderstorm.
So uh that that had its own itsown caveats.
Uh and honestly, it went itwent pretty well.
(58:32):
Um so as as a part of allthings considered.
All things considered, yeah.
And so it was it was good.
But uh I'm I'm grateful thaty'all took the time to go.
And I'm just grateful to to youand Josh really for helping
facilitate a lot of the detailsand logistics and wrangling kids
and all that stuff.
Um that was that was a load offof Krista for sure.
(58:52):
Um but yeah, uh we've got uhwe've got a fun weekend coming
up.
Um and you're gonna hear lotsof stories, I'm sure, um, from
this weekend.
Um, at least the ones that wefeel good enough to tell to the
internet.
Uh-huh.
Uh yeah, because there very wellmight be some that we don't
feel good about telling theinternet.
Pamela (59:10):
Um we get into some shenanigans.
Josh M (59:13):
Right.
Yeah.
And if we're gonna shenan once,you know we're gonna
shenanigan.
And so yeah, uh, that's how weroll.
But we uh we've got a greatweekend.
We actually fly out uh tomorrowuh as of the time of this
recording, and I've done nonepreparation.
Pamela (59:29):
Um we actually probably need to wrap this because same,
I gotta clean the house.
Josh M (59:35):
Well, and I I think our laundry situation's okay, but
you just reminded me I need to.
Pamela (59:43):
All right, yeah, let's wrap this up.
Josh M (59:45):
All right, well, it's been fun talking to y'all.
Um, and we'll see you when weget back in the premeditated
opinions.
Pamela (59:56):
If you enjoyed today's episode, congrats on having.
Truly excellent taste andpodcasting opinions.
Following us on YouTube andInstagram is a quick and easy
way to support us.
So if you liked literallyanything about today's episode,
please like and subscribe.
Josh M (01:00:13):
Also, send this to someone who needs to feel seen,
dragged, or both.
We'll be back next week withmore unsolicited insight and
emotionally responsiblespiraling.
And until then, please stayhydrated and behave yourself in
the comments.
But if you don't, at least makeus laugh.
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