Brandon Jacobs often says that without integrative healthcare, his life wouldn’t be the same. A persistent feeling of being “off” led him on a years-long journey to find the source of his symptoms. Brandon was eventually diagnosed with a rare disorder that processes certain foods and turns them into ethanol in the body, making him feel “drunk.”
In this episode, Brandon shares how his personal health journey inspired a unique approach to healthcare by combining primary care with health and wellness — all under one roof.
To check out more stories like Brandon's, head to frontdesk.jane.app.
Guest bio
Brandon co-founded Park Integrative Health in 2016, where he currently leads as Director of Allied Health. Brandon’s approach to leadership is based on empathy, and he strives to create a safe, inviting culture that empowers others to thrive. He believes strongly in supporting others on their journey to reach their potential and become the best version of themselves. He seeks to help individuals understand their unique worth as they work towards their goals, whether professional, personal, or health-related.
In 2023, Brandon and the leadership team at Park Integrative Health worked on the build-out and creation of a sister location to house physiotherapy and chiropractic care for the business. Synapse by Park Integrative Health opened its doors in late 2023, and is proud to continue to support the community with a personalized integrative care experience.
Prior to building Park Integrative Health, Brandon worked as a school teacher, a certified personal trainer, a yoga instructor and trainer, and a Registered Massage Therapist.
Guest links
- Park Integrative Health on Instagram
- Synapse by Park Integrative Health
- Brandon Jacobs on Instagram
- Park Integrative Health on Facebook
- Park Integrative Health on LinkedIn
- Park Integrative Health Wellness Blog
- Park Integrative Health Resources + Webinars
In this episode
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But then, as I, you know, got closer to my 30s and
some differing life stressesstarted piling on, I found that
I was feeling less and less well, and so what unwell looked like
to me would have been that Iwas a highly functioning
alcoholic is what the physicalsymptoms would have been.
You know, we would call themepisodes, or it would just look
(00:23):
like Brandon's not feeling well.
He just needs to sleep it off,which sometimes helped.
But ultimately, like I justkept saying like no, like
something is wrong, like thisobviously isn't normal.
None of you guys are actinglike this and so like
something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Brandon Jacobs often says that without integrative
health care, his life wouldn'tbe the same.
Brandon Jacobs often says thatwithout integrative healthcare,
his life wouldn't be the same.
A persistent feeling of beingoff led him on a years-long
journey to find the source ofhis symptoms.
Brandon was eventuallydiagnosed with a rare disorder
that processes certain foods andturns it into ethanol in the
body, making him feel drunk.
The experience inspired Brandonto create his clinic Park
(01:02):
Integrated Health, located inhis hometown of Sherwood Park,
alberta, canada.
What makes his clinic unique isthe combination of primary care
providers and health andwellness professionals, such as
massage therapists andacupuncturists.
With this blended model, he'sbeen able to offer a truly
revolutionary healthcareexperience.
If there's a need, he tries tofill it all while educating
(01:23):
people on the benefits of theintegrative model.
Welcome to Radio Front Desk, ashow that surfaces what real
people in real clinics are doingto open, run and grow
successful health and wellnessbusinesses.
I'm your host, denzel Ford,editor-in-chief of Front Desk
Magazine by JNAP.
Here we have powerfulconversations with health and
wellness professionals on thebusiness side of clinic life.
(01:44):
We hear their stories anddiscover what works and how to
do it, and we also talk aboutwhat doesn't work.
If you want to check out morestories like this, head to
janeapp forward slash front desk.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah Well, I'd like to start by getting to know you
a little better, if that's okay.
So I'm just wondering if youcould tell me your background,
(02:19):
maybe get into a little bit ofyour early life, that kind of
inspired your career, if therewas anything like that and what
brought you here today to talkto me.
Well, when I left teaching, Istarted to do that and I thought
this probably won't besustainable long term.
So I took massage therapy andthen I also thought, well, this
might not be sustainable for mywhole life and so I took a whole
bunch of yoga training.
So I started to bridge all ofthose into some holistic and
allied health healing.
(02:40):
And along the way I met Heather,my partner and the mother to my
daughter, and Nija Bakshi, whois one of our co-founders and
she was a massage client of mine.
And we went through, you know,she was a client of mine for a
good 10, 12 years.
And as we started to build arelationship, Heather and I
(03:03):
always thought, like, well, whenyou graduate from acupuncture
school, what are we going to do?
And we thought we would do liketraining, massage, yoga,
acupuncture, and open up alittle clinic.
And Nija on this other side waslike what are you and Heather
going to do when she finishes?
And so I told her and she'slike well, I'm really looking to
get out of inpatient medicinein the hospital and I was
(03:26):
thinking that like we could worktogether and see if physicians
and allied health providerscould work together as equals Do
you?
Is that something that you'd beinterested in?
And we kind of went from.
We kind of went from there.
I said yes, and so we startedworking on some background stuff
over 18 months before we openedin 2017.
(03:46):
And Heather was like well, howare you going to do that and can
I help?
And so we joined forces, alongwith Nija's husband, Mahesh, who
does a whole bunch of thefinite skills that we don't have
, like fixing things andaccounting and that sort of
thing.
And we just all joined togetherand really were invested in the
(04:12):
area of Sherwood Park.
That's where I grew up, that'swhere Mahesh's parents are and
that's where Heather and I livenow.
And so you know, long storyshort, educational wise, and
that's kind of where how we gothere yeah, okay, there's so much
to dive into in that.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Um, I also understand you have a really interesting
personal health journey, thatsort of informed your way of
moving through being a businessowner and being involved in
health care.
Could you, could you talk aboutthat a little bit?
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Where would you like me to start in that part of the
journey?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, from what I understand, you have a long
history with not feeling welland you didn't know why for a
long time.
Maybe start there.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Okay, so I can say that my first recollection was
around when I was 13, playingbaseball at my wasn't my high
school yet, but it eventuallywas and I just remember like not
feeling like myself in spite ofhaving eaten well and being
hydrated, I just like didn'tfeel like myself.
My dad would have described meas like not being there or that,
(05:20):
just like something was off,and so that's kind of my first
memory of it.
And then the memories are kindof scattered.
I remember it happening when Iwas playing Alberta basketball
when I was probably 16 or 17.
I was on the bus and you know,my teammates were just like
what's wrong with you?
And of course, like in that agecategory, you're like nothing,
(05:41):
like nothing's wrong, like whatdo you mean?
And so I got and you know, as Iaged, like I still got
defensive.
But you know, upon a lot ofreflection, people were just
looking out for me, because whenyou don't show up the way you
normally do and people check inon you like they're not doing it
because something's wrong,they're doing it because they
care about you.
And I found it happened alittle bit in when I was playing
(06:04):
university volleyball.
Probably not a whole lot, um,but then, as I, you know, got
closer to my thirties and some,some differing life stresses
started piling on, I found thatI was feeling less and less well
, and so what unwell looked liketo me would have been that I
was a highly functioningalcoholic, is what the physical
(06:25):
symptoms would have been.
That I was a highly functioningalcoholic is what the physical
symptoms would have been, inspite of, you know, being with
Heather for an entire day, notout of her sight, my cognitive
functioning would just kind ofdecline throughout the day.
You know, we would call themepisodes, or it would just look
like Brandon's not feeling well,he just needs to sleep it off,
(06:45):
which sometimes helped.
But ultimately, like I justkept saying like no, like
something is wrong, like thisobviously isn't normal, none of
you guys are acting like thisand so like something's wrong.
So, by a stroke of I don't know, I don't know, just call it
like thankfully, because withoutintegrative health care, like I
don't know, I don't know, justcall it like thankfully, because
(07:05):
without integrative healthcare,like I wouldn't be alive.
Heather and I were watching a TVshow and a man named Dr Kenodia
was on the TV and there was areenactment of a man who was at
a pizza shop got pulled over bythe police.
He couldn't walk a straightline, could hardly talk.
He was a devout non drinker andit was just a reenactment of
(07:25):
how food can interact inpeople's systems.
So essentially at the time,food would interact in a way
with me that produced ethanol inmy system, and so we didn't
know this at the time, but wesaw this reenactment so I flew
to Ohio to meet with Dr Kanodiaand I was basically like, can
you help me?
(07:45):
So he's a functional, he's afunctional medicine specialist,
so he's an MD, and an MDoperating out of Ohio, as I
mentioned and you know, so kindof began a journey of some
testing, so all kinds ofdifferent testing and
supplementation.
He's still my doctor today, butI did end up getting diagnosed
(08:06):
with some lesser known diagnoses, which are auto brewery
syndrome and SIBO, which issmall intestinal bacterial
overgrowth, which, as Imentioned to Alex and Baz before
, more people know about it nowbecause it's been more
mainstream it was even like oneof the episodes on Grey's
(08:26):
Anatomy.
So you know, 10 years ago, whenit was when it was happening to
me, it was less known Like Iwent to my doctor not to pit it
against doctors, but I went tomy doctor at the time and told
him what was going on.
He basically said, like that'snot real Because at the time it
wasn't a real diagnosis.
But right.
You know.
So you know I knew thatsomething was wrong and we just
(08:51):
kept exploring and exploring andexploring and, you know,
finally we found.
So when I met with Dr Kanodia I, you know, he started helping
me on that end.
But I also started takingreally concerted self-care.
So stress reduction, whichwasn't only working out in yoga,
it came with massage andacupuncture and nutritional
changes, because even though Iwas eating healthy foods, they
(09:14):
weren't healthy for me.
No one would assume that eatingeggs and black pepper and
mustard and things like thatmight make their ethanol levels
high.
But after some food sensitivitytesting, like, yeah, very
interesting, but that's what washappening for me and that's
what happens to lots of people.
Now we can just more readilysee that, like, perhaps there's
(09:36):
something else going on with youand integrative healthcare or a
whole bunch of differentavenues that you can explore
might be able to help you.
And so that's, while all ofthis was happening, we were
still opening our company andHeather was still in school and
trying to do this full time.
But for me, that's why it's sucha passion project Not only is
(09:58):
it in my hometown but I get youknow a good number of people
from high school oracquaintances, like reaching out
and asking like can you help me?
I've reached some roadblocks.
I've tried these part andparcel things or these one off
things like is there somethingthat you can do or that you guys
offer that can help me, even ifit's not to see both a
(10:18):
physician and allied health.
Members like is there somethingthat you can do to help me?
Members like is there somethingthat you can do to help me?
So it's, it's very passionatefor me because, as I mentioned,
if integrative healthcare and DrKanodi and all the help that I
received on the back end Iwouldn't be alive.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Wow, yeah, that's really powerful.
Can we dive into theintegrative healthcare, a little
bit Piggybacking on that andlike so what do you?
How do you?
Well, two things.
First, you've mentioned theterm allied health and I just
want to make sure that all ofour listeners kind of are on the
same page with us on what wemean by that.
And then if you could do thesame with integrative health as
(10:55):
well, if you will.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
So allied health is basically what we decided to
call what was once calledalternative or complementary
modalities, so basicallyanything that's not considered
medical, like a medical doctoror a nurse practitioner.
We called allied because weview our team all as allied
members together.
So they're allied with themedical system and allied with
(11:20):
themselves.
They're not complementary andthey're not alternative.
They're you know, they'reallies in your health journey.
So that's that's what we havechosen to call, to call that
area, because before my titlewas the Director of Holistic
Health, which made sense at thetime because they were holistic
modalities or that's kind of howthey were viewed and we just
(11:41):
wanted to amplify the way thatwe viewed them and the way that
we want the public to view allkinds of avenues of care.
So we decided to call it allied.
And as far as integrativehealth care, we call it
integrative instead ofintegrated, because integrated
denotes that there's a stop, butintegrative means it's ongoing
and ever-changing, and so wecalled it park integrative
(12:03):
health because we knew it wouldalways be evolving.
We had no idea what the team orthe modalities or anything would
look like and they have vastlychanged over the years and
they've changed which servicesare most popular at any given
time, and what we're reallytrying to do is show that
(12:23):
healthcare can really just beuniversal.
It's not one side, so to speak,over the other.
It's not medical versus allied,or my doctor did this or my
chiropractor did this.
We try and elevate all of themodalities to the best of our
ability, knowing that we won'tbe able to.
You know, please, everybody andnot everyone's going to have
the same viewpoint.
Integrative healthcare is justnew in practice.
(12:45):
It's not new in theory, becausethat's how that's a medicine's
practice, you know, all over theworld.
It's just a little bit newerhere, at least in our area, a
little bit maybe in yours andacross Canada.
It's not as common as otherplaces in the world.
So we're trying to, you know,get a foothold on how we can
change the way healthcare isexperienced in Canada.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I love that so much, and what I noticed about your
clinic is that you have many ofthese allied healthcare options
within it, and then you alsohave physicians, so could you
talk about how those two thingsexist within the same world and
maybe bring us inside the clinica little bit Like what's it
like to be there?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I mean I, I I love it there.
I mean I, I really I took a lotof places that I worked and
really focused on the thingsthat I didn't like or the ways I
didn't like to be treated.
And they won't obviously callanybody out, but have some
really pinnacle moments thathappen with every place that I
worked that I was like, oh, ifI'm ever fortunate enough to run
(13:48):
something or lead people orhelp people have a job for their
families, like this is how Iwould want to do it.
So when you come in, you'regreeted with nice, friendly
faces, very fresh branding,greenery and essentially all of
the tones and colors andeverything that we've picked are
so that essentially you wouldfeel safe in the space.
(14:09):
You wouldn't know that you'rehere to see a doctor or that
you're here for therapy or thatyou're here to see a massage
therapist.
Everyone is treated the same inthe waiting room.
The difference is that youpredominantly go to the west
side of the building if you'reseeing a physician and the east
side if you're going to alliedhealth.
But that's grown and evolvedand changed over the last seven
years.
So essentially you'll go toyour appointment and there's
(14:33):
obviously we have lots ofoptions.
But the biggest thing is thatyou it's not really a choose
your own adventure, but thereare a lot of options.
So while our physicians rightnow happen to be full, because
there's a huge demand to have afamily physician, we offer
something that Heather actuallyhas produced in all of our
(14:56):
processes, and those sort ofthings are the things that she
excels in.
So all of the programs andthose sort of things that we
have are from her brain.
I just get to talk about them.
So the client care program is atthe core of our company and
it's the bridge.
It's the bridge group of peopleand the bridge thought that you
(15:18):
can refer from the physicianteam to the ally team.
You can refer from the allyteam to the allied team.
You can refer from the alliedteam to the allied team, or the
public can self-refer themselvesto one of those streams,
depending on who's available.
So I would say it's kind oflike a health coach, only it's
more like starting at thebeginning of your journey.
So let's say you're reallyinterested in park integrative
(15:41):
health.
You know that there's not adoctor accepting, or you have a
doctor but you're not sure whereto start with allied health,
you could book a client careconsult, virtually or in person,
and you could come and sit downand essentially it's a way for
you to tell your story, for theclient care coordinator, um, to
listen and to essentially seewhat your goals of treatment are
(16:04):
, what modalities you've had,which ones you're interested in,
and then to remove or at leasttalk about any barriers that you
have.
So that could be finance, time,personality, you know what have
you, and then essentially theycan help you book and build a
plan.
Then you go into our clientcare program and then the client
(16:24):
care coordinator is the onethat checks in with you.
So essentially, they check inevery couple of weeks, see, like
you know, maybe you missed anappointment, hi, so, and so we
see that you did miss yourappointment.
Like, is everything okay?
Are you still interested inthis modality?
So essentially they getfollowed until they, you know,
are maybe a more stronger agentof their, of their own health.
(16:47):
Maybe they need a little lesshelp, maybe they need less help
booking.
But we do lots of consults thatway.
Or instead of having, say, ahallway conversation where I say
to someone hey, you know, I'mglad you enjoyed your treatment,
I've already rebooked them,like I think you'd really
benefit from acupuncture insteadof simply having it in the
hallway and that person beinglike, yeah, yeah, sure, I'll
(17:09):
probably book acupuncture maybeone day, and then it's gone out
of their brain.
We can either put a task inJane funnily enough, hi, this
client is looking for moreinformation on acupuncture and
one of the client carecoordinators contacts them or we
do it a little bit more in realtime, but then we send consult
letters back and forth aboutthis person's collaborative care
.
We have a consent form forpeople to enter the client care
(17:32):
program where, if they wanteveryone to be able to view
their chart notes so the care iscollaborative then we do that.
And then if they requestsomething even deeper, like a
patient case conference or aclient care conference where all
of their providers get togetherto discuss what they're doing
for their care, we also do that.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, wow, that's quite a lot.
It's quite a lot.
What is your approach togetting patients or clients to
understand the value of thesedifferent modalities and the
other options that are availableto them?
Like, how does thatconversation go?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
It's been evolving over the years.
So I will say when we firststarted, there was, admittedly
like a lot of pushback, notsimply from the community or the
medical community, which therewas, but more from clients not
quite understanding like it camein here for my free health care
and now my physician is sayingthat I should book a massage,
(18:35):
but I should book it in thisbuilding where I have to pay,
which is true because it's stilla business.
But also, instead of referringout, what we did is we created
some posters that were brandedand tailored to every
physician's panel and we put itin the rooms, such as do you
suffer from depression oranxiety?
(18:56):
And then on the bottom it'llsay perhaps you would benefit
from a referral to our mentalhealth team, like talk to a
client care coordinator.
So then it allowed the clientto be more of the agent of like
hey, that is me and I would liketo hear more about that instead
of it feeling like it was thetop down, the doctor knows
everything.
Because one of the things welike the most about the team of
(19:18):
physicians that we have is thatthey're allowed and empowered to
say I don't know, but I do havea whole team of over 50 people
that could probably help youbecause I don't know everything,
and so that's how moreconversations are started.
But, more than anything, it'ssimply education.
So we have lots of ways to dothat.
Instead of having pamphlets, wehave unassuming QR codes that
(19:42):
link us to our website so peoplecan peruse as they wish.
We have our services, vision,mission, values and our team in
the waiting room with some light, ambient music so that if
that's what people want to watch, they certainly can.
Our nursing team or our admin ormoa team.
(20:02):
They might have more of ahallway conversation like hey, I
hear you, I see you're here infor this like.
Is a referral to x, y, z ofinterest to you?
If not, like, please talk toyour.
Like, please talk to dr x andif so, look, you can come back
out and talk to me about it andI can book you something.
So it's more just educatingthat we do have more modalities,
but you're not bound to seeingany of them.
(20:24):
And if you want an externalreferral, you know absolutely.
But it's really just to educatepeople not just that we have
the modalities but that thereare other options.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, I love that, and when I'm on your website, I
was like kind of shocked at howmany different options you have.
So I am too.
Maybe you could just quicklygive us a laundry list.
And then I'm wondering how youmade the decision to to bring in
the ones that you brought in.
How, how was that decision madeto to choose acupuncture or
(20:59):
whatever you're going to choose?
Sure?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
So when we started, like I was a massage therapist
before so I just assumed likemost people have benefits,
especially here for massage, soI thought massage was definitely
going to carry the allied team.
So we started out really smallwith four core things, which
were massage, acupuncture,mental health and nutrition.
(21:21):
So I started there and thenit's really just evolved.
It's evolved.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I just have to interrupt you for a second to
just congratulate you that thatwas your starting point.
I mean, that is quite a group,so please continue.
I'm sorry.
But that's like right out ofthe gate.
That's a huge, wonderfulstarting point.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, thank you, and that's what I thought we needed
at the beginning, and we stilldo.
Those are definitely ourlongest standing modalities and
then it's really just evolved.
It's evolved as people havecome in and they've, you know,
wanted to offer other things.
We have a nurse practitionermodel.
Now that's different than someothers.
(22:05):
It is fee for service.
Some clinics have their nursepractitioners see their medical
panel and we just have taken adifferent approach.
But that was just in a way tosupport the medical team.
As another offering, we offerour new building, synapse by
Park.
Integrative Health houses ourphysiotherapy and chiropractic
(22:26):
team.
Essentially, we outgrew thespace the community had been
asking, like when are you goingto have physio and when are you
going to have chiro in?
There was a five year hold inthe plaza, so we kind of had to
wait till that lapsed anyway,and then so we expanded so we
could grow the team in that way,but still in the plaza.
So it's technically still underone roof, because we all share
(22:48):
a roof, but it's just in two.
Um, it is in two buildings umpark.
Integrative health is unit 970and synapse is unit 910, so
they're not that far apart, um,and we offer medical aesthetics.
We are adding an intimatehealth or a sexual health
division in the coming monthswith a physician who is in our
(23:09):
community that reached out andwanted to do some work with us.
We have occupational therapy,and occupational therapy came
out of a demand from the longCOVID community because we still
do run one of the only longCOVID programs in Alberta.
Dr Bakshi was kind of the leadat one of our hospitals, not
kind of, she was the lead at oneof our hospitals and so we
(23:32):
still run a long COVID clinic.
So occupational therapy and avery specialist physiotherapist
that we have came because thatwas a demand that was needed.
That's all I can think of offthe top of my head before I go
off on a tangent.
So it's a lot and there's somemore, and some of it's been
diversified because some of themassage therapists offer some
(23:55):
things that are a bit outside ofmassage therapy, like manual
osteopathic therapy, which isdifferent than osteopathic
manual therapy, and we have both.
We have MOTs and we have an OMT, and so the education around
that has been important, justlike the education around the
difference between what a RD soregistered dietitian does versus
(24:15):
a certified holisticnutritional consultant.
They have similar educationsbut take differing approaches,
and so it's been a lot abouteducating our team first so they
can talk about it, and then thepublic second, and so it's just
, it's just evolved.
I rarely turn away somethingthat somebody wants to try
(24:37):
because I think like, well, ifnot us, who, why don't you try
that?
Why don't you see if it worksLike we?
Why don't you see if it worksLike we can work together and
see if this is something thatbrings you joy or fulfills your
practice or your family?
And we just kind of go fromthere.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah.
So if I'm hearing you correctly, some of your decisions were
made because you kind of thoughtit would be good to have, and
some of it were patientsactually asking you for for a
certain type of treatment.
Is that correct?
Definitely?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
and we are the first to say, like we don't know, we
don't know everything, and so,like, if you have an idea or
feedback or something that youwant, like let's sit down and
talk about it, because wedefinitely haven't, we haven't
thought of it, of everything.
So, um, yeah, some of it's comefrom a demand, or we see that
there was a need that we didn'trealize there might be, because
I trialed occupational therapybefore COVID and it was a really
(25:28):
big flop and there just wasn'tthe demand.
The occupational therapist thatwe had is amazing, but she came
from the school system and lotsof people were looking for
occupational therapy like returnto work plan, and lots of
people were looking foroccupational therapy like return
to work plan More like whatother people would think like
occupational therapy, as theygot hurt on the job and I need
to get back to work and herniche was a little bit different
(25:51):
.
But then she had a differentniche that we just couldn't fill
at the time.
And then long COVID came andnow we have two occupational
therapists and they're bothquite busy.
One works, you know,predominantly virtual and she's
busy also.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So I have a bit of an abstract follow-up question Do
you have a sense of wherepatients and clients are getting
the information they getoutside of your clinic on what
they think about the differenttypes of healthcare Because
you're talking about?
You know, in one moment in timea certain type of treatment not
really being in demand, butthen, after an event, it becomes
(26:30):
in demand?
Where is that coming from?
I guess, more generally insociety it's kind of a big
question, but I don't know.
I don't know if you have anythoughts on that.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I think in general, it is the knowledge that not
everyone holds all of theinformation and not one thing
works for everybody.
Everyone who has had some sortof self-care has probably had a
bad experience.
That doesn't mean that thatperson is a bad person or a bad
provider.
That person likely hadsomething going on for them that
(27:00):
nobody knows about.
And so I think, instead of justsaying like that modality
doesn't work, it could just belike that modality didn't work
for me at that time, becausethere are hundreds of thousands
of success stories for eachmodality.
So I think people are educatingthemselves more and taking a bit
more agency over what you know,what knowledge means, and that
(27:27):
the physician A doesn't knoweverything and B doesn't have to
know everything.
They don't have to.
They don't have to hold all ofthe cards and they likely don't
want to because it's a.
It's a high pressure job,especially in family medicine,
where you kind of go to them foreverything.
I mean we can't be expectedthat they know everything in the
world.
So it's great for us for themto have a very trusted team and
(27:51):
a trusted brand in the communityto refer to.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah.
Can you talk about yourbusiness partner who is a
physician and what was herexperience collaborating with
you to?
About your business partner whois a physician and what was her
experience collaborating withyou to build this business, and
where do you think her interestin having that partnership came
from?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Well, I will do my best to speak on her behalf,
because, obviously she's nothere.
So I think she is very forwardthinking and so I wouldn't say
that she's necessarily like aunicorn, but I would say at the
time she could see that medicinecould be done differently, that
(28:35):
it could be changed, that therewere more options.
There are still physicians thatwe know that don't believe in
modalities like acupuncture,even though acupuncture has been
around for thousands of years.
So I think it took anopen-minded physician to want to
do something different.
(28:55):
And then, essentially becauseHeather and I built such a
trusting relationship with herand her twin girls, I think she
just inherently trusted us thatwe would make good decisions on
what modalities we would bringin.
And so I think it came just likeany business like.
It comes from relationshipbuilding, because they're all
(29:15):
businesses of humans for themost part, especially when it
comes to self care or your body,like.
Like it's all a business ofhumans, so, and they're messy
and they need help.
And essentially you need to beopen-minded if you, if you want
to try something new.
And so I think she went througha lot of strife amongst
colleagues and the medicalcommunity in general, saying
(29:36):
like that's not going to work orthat's not a real thing or you
know whatever kinds of thingsthat I don't even know.
That was said and I think shejust disagreed or buried it
somewhere and and moved forward.
And here we are, almost sevenyears later, with, you know, an
expansion and a thriving companyand people still connecting
(29:58):
with us who have been turnedaway from where they work for
someone that they want to tryfor the betterment of the
community.
And we said like, yeah, let'stry it.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, I love it.
You just mentioned expansion.
Maybe we can flip a little bitand talk about your growth story
.
So I understand that yourclinic was the first of its kind
in Edmonton, Alberta.
So what was that like?
How did you get off the groundfrom the start?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
You know, we had a lot of like haphazard meetings
and a lot of like coffee shoptalk.
That was more, like you know,truly it was the four of us
coming together having a lot ofdifferent skill sets.
I was fairly connected in thehealth and wellness communities.
I knew some people that I couldcontact, even though we did
hold open interviews.
(30:51):
And Nija, she was runninginternal medicine in the company
and she had a physician in mindthat was going to join us.
But essentially it was how areyou going to do that?
What are the systems going tobe?
That was even more importantbecause, like you can have a lot
of really big ideas, but theanswer is, the question is
always like how are you going todo that and how will you make
that successful?
So, as I had mentioned, likethat's where heather came in and
(31:14):
was like we need things like ahuman resources manual and and
that sort of thing.
And so we really started on theon the back end 18 months, even
even beforehand, even before wewere looking at spaces, um,
because you wanted, we knew itwas going to be a really big
responsibility to employ people,um, and we wanted to make sure
(31:34):
that, even though it's evolvedand changed and obviously we
still didn't get it right in thebeginning, like we did our best
and we didn't, we didn't rushit by any means, and so we
started long before we opened.
And then I would say, when weexpanded, we, you know, we we
went a little bit quickerbecause we thought we had a lot
of knowledge, which we still did, but I would say that the
(31:56):
expansion happened a lot quickerfrom the first time we talked
about it to when it actuallybecame a thing.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I love that you mentioned the Human Resources
Manual because I'm fascinated byall the little nitty gritty
things that people need to do torun these businesses, to open
them, to keep them afloat in apositive way.
Has that document changed sincethe very beginning to now,
where you have a lot more staffthat would be needing to work
(32:26):
under that manual?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Oh yeah, it changes all the time.
It's a living document.
It gets changed and updated andit all comes from things you
didn't think you need to put ina human resources manual.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
It comes from the mistakes.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
When something goes wrong, you're like let's add it
to the manual it also was a goodreminder for us that, um,
people view the worlddifferently and so, even if we
take our values, for example, um, like a value, like integrity,
it does mean different things todifferent people.
So in our manual we've and evenour team at the time like we
had them right, like what doesit mean to you?
(33:01):
Because it means differentthings to different people and
we were finding that there wassome.
You know, we do a valuesexercise even before, like in
our interview process, becausewe found that if our values
don't align, we're probably notgoing to be aligned to work
together.
But that's the biggest thingthat changed in the human human
resources manual, which was, um,the way we do the work and why,
(33:23):
and everyone being on the samepage of like what that actually
means, because there's tons ofdefinitions for lots of words in
the dictionary and so it wasmore of a yeah, this is what
this to us.
This is what it means, like toshow up with integrity.
This is what it means.
This is what patient andclient-centered care means to us
, instead of just this is ourvalue and it means to you what
(33:44):
it means to you.
So it's an always changingdocument, because healthcare and
business and people are alwaysevolving anyway, so it needs to
be an updated living document.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, I love that.
Can we dive into the peoplefirst, care and culture of your
clinic and how do you approachthat?
I'm assuming that's one of yourvalues.
So if I'm right about that,yeah, so tell me how you do
define that.
And then, what are the nuts andbolts of how it looks from day
(34:17):
to day, what people are expectedto do?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
So is this patient so this patient center, like for
the public or for our team, isit really for the team.
Like your people first, culturewithin your clinic yeah, well,
you know, building a reallypositive culture was really
important to me when we firstopened.
We went to some conferences.
We went to a thing called thecult conference, uh, out in
Banff, alberta, um, and got somereally great um stuff there.
(34:43):
Um, we went to some leadershipconferences because, I mean,
we've all been in leadershiproles in some sense but, like
other people, have a lot moreknowledge.
So we did our study and somehomework on what we wanted that
to look like and feel like andso it looks it's kind of more in
like the smaller details, atleast on my end in my portfolio
like people fill out like a lovelanguages form or a client, you
(35:07):
know, a staff memberappreciation form when they
start.
So we know how they like to getfeedback.
We know what's important tothem, you know, stemming from
the five love languages.
Obviously even that has evolvedover the years, stemming from
the five love languages.
Obviously even that has evolvedover the years.
But there's no sense in givingsomebody a gift card if their
love language is quality time asan example.
(35:29):
So we do celebrate people'sbirthdays and anniversaries and
that sort of thing and we tryand tailor that to what their
specification is, which is a lotto go through with 50 plus
people.
But that's part of my role isremembering everyone's birthday
and anniversary and milestoneanniversaries.
They get a little bit extra.
And birthdays I always send atext or an email and everyone
(35:51):
still gets a card and somepeople have had six or seven
cards for their birthdaysbecause they've been with us
from the very beginning.
We offer wellness days insteadof sick days because we really
want to support that.
Like, you can take a day offwhen you need to take a day off,
just make sure it doesn'taffect your team.
You know, to the best of yourability.
We're very, I would say, looseon things like timely lunches,
(36:17):
because we still we know peopleneed to recharge and so long as
the work is getting done in aneffective manner, we like to
think that we offer a lot.
We don't often offer a superstrict dress code because I want
people to express how they feeland their own personality
within some guidelines, but wedon't have uniforms or anything
(36:41):
like that.
You know, I know everyone's namename.
I know lots about theirfamilies, as much as I can.
We do frequent check-ins and soI've found over the years that,
even though it hasn't landedfor everybody and even though
not everyone stays with us foryears and years like I, do my
very best to hope that they feelcared for, appreciated, valued
(37:04):
um, and if they don't likethey're welcome, they're welcome
to reach out um.
A couple times a year.
I ask for feedback.
That I never want, but italways makes the company better
um, and so I just try and letthem know that I do really care
about them and while we are abusiness and so we need to make
money, so they can make moneyand we can all support our
(37:27):
families, I still always want todo what's best for them and I
try to let them know like thisis this feedback is what I
believe is best for you, notwhat's best for the company.
Because they still let people to, for the most part, create
their own schedules.
They get to block off the timethat they need.
We try and treat them as truecontractors.
Can't deny them vacation time,can't deny them sick time.
(37:48):
I don't say you can't block offthe last client of your day and
I would say sure, maybe that'sto the detriment of the bottom
dollar sometimes.
But I'd rather have people workwith us for five, six, seven,
ten years part-time and be superhappy, you know, have a set
schedule and a quota and havethem be with us for two.
(38:08):
So try and be as flexible as Ican.
One thing that we learned, evenout of us having a child, is
helping support our team thatdoes go on a leave, and so we'll
be coming up on supporting our28th team member with a
maternity leave so very wellversed in that and trying to
(38:29):
help them come back in a waythat is good for them and their
family and still allows them.
You know, we cut shifts or timeslots short so they can be home
for bedtime or have a laterstart time so that they can drop
them off at school and all thatsort of thing.
So we do our very, our very,very best, um, within the
constraints of still needing tokeep the doors open, so a lot of
(38:52):
stuff goes on in the backgroundfor those things to be possible
, um, and as I talked about as,like leadership and doing those
sort of things can be superlonely because they're all the
background stuff that, um, thatpeople don't get.
But when you give themone-on-one attention, like
they're the only person thatyou're, you know, working with
right now, you know it's easy toforget that we're also doing
(39:14):
that with 50 plus other people.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Right, yeah, there's so much in there that I think
our listeners can draw from.
Personally, I am inspired byyou using the five love
languages to interact with yourteam, because I I don't have the
same love language as mostpeople at work.
I actually want more work.
I want more work.
(39:38):
That's what I feel, like Idon't.
I don't want someone to say youdid a good job.
I want them to give me morework and more responsibility,
and to me, that's the equivalentof yay, you did a good job,
denzel.
But so many other people aren'tyet there.
They actually want me to sayyou did amazing, and I have to
remember that.
But, like, using the model ofthe five love language is
(39:59):
exactly that exercise ofremembering that other people
need something different thanwhat I need.
Yeah, okay.
So all of that has really setyou up and you have expanded to
a second location.
So would you?
Would you talk about that?
When did you make that decision?
When did you feel confidentthat?
Speaker 1 (40:19):
that was the right thing.
And how did you do that?
Well, I'll just like be superhonest.
So we've been really wanting toadd physiotherapy and
chiropractics.
Um, we were just like waitingfor this, this five-year
milestone, to to be gone and allthe restrictions in the plaza
to lapse, and so we had astrategy meeting in february
(40:40):
about k it's lapsed.
It lapsed in august.
Like it's time to startthinking about like how how can
we do this?
And so we started out small,with a couple of
physiotherapists just working inour within Park Integrative
Health.
But like physiotherapy for themost part, like probably needs
(41:01):
to be done in a bigger spacewhere they can at least move
around, not just a treatmentroom.
So we had a strategy meeting inFebruary and in March we bought
a bay.
So I would say, not a whole lotof planning went in other than,
like this bay's been available.
Our attention finally turned toit and like, if we don't do it
(41:23):
now, like we're not going to doit, because there's always a
reason not to.
So I would say we put in a lotless thought than maybe we could
have, but only because we'ddone it before.
So that's just kind of how thatwent.
We bought it and then it waslike, okay, start at the end,
and who are all the people thatwe need to get this in place?
(41:47):
So, first things first.
It was like, well, we obviouslyneed a designer and we need a
contracting team, and so that'skind of where we started
contacted a designer, made surethat she was part of the
architectures group so she couldtell us essentially the do's
and don'ts and can's and can'tsof the space that we bought.
Then there was find acontractor who wanted to do the
(42:10):
project, because you need thosethings in place really before
you can start anything.
The bay was a pizza and donairshop, so all that stuff is still
in there.
So it's really hard to likewalk in to see a donair shop and
think like this is going to bea physiotherapy space.
And then we just kind of startedwith, like our vision board of
(42:31):
what we wanted it to look likeand feel like and what we wanted
the experience to be like, andwe we worked from there.
So we went backward, back andforth a lot with our marketer
and with our design team, makingsure that, even though it might
take longer, that therenderings looked how we wanted
it and that, but that it wasalso still profitable, because
(42:54):
at first we're like, oh, let'shave like four private rooms and
a physiotherapy tub and thisand that.
And then it was like, well, ifyou want more than 10 people in
here, you have to have twobathrooms.
And then we're like, okay, likemaybe we'll just build an
upstairs, and they're like, well, that doesn't really work in
these space we had.
We had all these thoughts ofthings that we thought we could
do to maximize the space, butessentially it was here's what
(43:15):
you can actually put in it, andso we just had to work with it
because we already bought it.
So.
So I would say we put in lessthought into what we were buying
, but more.
It was such a big demand fromour community and when you're
like we needed to do something,something else and something
more, because we'd alreadyoutgrown the space for the most
(43:36):
part how are you, how are youmaking certain decisions around
what needs to be there from atreatment perspective,
considering you're not aphysical therapist,
physiotherapist?
I have a really good dialoguewith the team that I have and a
(43:57):
couple of external people that Ispoke with, which was
essentially like what do youneed?
Because I'm not aphysiotherapist, not a
chiropractor, like what do youneed?
And so I essentially, like,asked for a needs list, a want
list, a wish list and dream list, and I basically got what I
could from everybody.
But it's interesting becausewhat everybody wanted more than
anything was time with theirclients.
So, oh, interesting, yeah, sothat is one thing that we really
(44:22):
put out there is that there'snot a quota, there's not a time
schedule, there's not arestriction, like if they need
to spend more time with theirclients, they get.
I've really tried to is thatthere's not a quota, there's not
a time schedule, there's not arestriction, like if they need
to spend more time with theirclients, they get.
I've really tried to let peoplepractice the way that they want
to and need to practice.
If they want to run on the 10minute, they can.
If they want to run on the 20minute, they can.
And so because we do know thatwith the right team and with the
(44:45):
right level of attraction, thecompany will be successful.
And so I would say I just askedthem what they wanted and
needed and got what I could,which is also changing.
But yeah, they just they wantedtime.
They want, like I want to beable to spend time with my
clients.
So that's what we offered andthen, as new practitioners, come
(45:06):
in.
If there's something that theyneed, we see what it is that
they need and if it fits withina certain budget.
At that time of year it'seither a yes a yes at this time
or a no not at this time.
But let's circle back at thisdate.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Right, yeah, I love that.
So let's just in our lastlittle bit here, if we could
talk about marketing a little.
A lot of our listeners findthat to be kind of an enigma how
do you do it?
There's a lot to choose from.
So I'm wondering if you couldtalk about what you did, what
you found to be most successfuland even, if you feel
(45:44):
comfortable, what you found tonot really work very well, and
why comfortable what you foundto not really work very well,
and why Sure?
Speaker 1 (45:55):
So as far as what I've learned in marketing, which
is a ton, I would say that it'sone of the most important
things that you can invest in.
Word of mouth is great, but wordof mouth only comes around if
you get your name out there,which marketing can do.
And so we went through a coupleof marketers at the beginning
that we and essentially likebutted some heads with um and so
they weren't a right fit, uh,but it was really early on.
(46:17):
Like we kind of went through acouple at the beginning because,
like I knew that's what weneeded, kind of like the
ambassadors that we have, like Iknow that I can't personally
spread the message ofintegrative health care just
because I grew up in SherwoodPark.
That's not really how it works.
And so I finally met who wehave now.
Her name is Karina.
(46:37):
She's been with us for comingup on six years in July, so
almost the entirety that we'vebeen open and essentially she
helps us with all of thebranding.
She does things like creating abrand Bible.
What you want your brand tolook like, feel like, does it
(46:58):
fit your personality.
And so essentially we did gothrough a recent rebrand when we
, when we were so while we wereopening Synapse, we went through
a rebrand and we redid ourwebsite.
So we decided we'll just do itall at the same time, which was
really great for theorganization.
Really stressful on our part,but we're all past that now.
(47:22):
But I would say, like finding amarketer, we're really lucky
because Karina kind of does itall.
She does our SEO and she doesour communications and she kind
of does everything where wedon't have to.
You know, she also does oursocial media, so it's not like
she we have someone doing socialmedia and we have someone else,
so it's kind of like she's ourlike integrative marketer, so to
(47:45):
speak, because I just made itup actually, so we, we can we
get to talk about all of thosethings in real time, and so I
really do think that, outside oflike all of the team members
that we have, she's one of thepeople that works in the back
(48:05):
end, that does a lot of thethankless work.
That, which is why we have alot of these forward facing
things in these programs Likeit's great that we can run
webinars, but how do we get thatmessage that we're running
webinars out there?
And then, like, how do we putit on a website?
Are all things that aren't inour strong suit and also things
that we don't necessarily wantto take the time to do.
(48:26):
So we'd rather pay an expertand put our time towards our
strengths.
Just like I don't do accounting, I'm sure I could learn, but
Mahesh has an accountingbackground.
As an example, right, I couldwrite the human resources manual
, but that's a strong suit ofHeather's, so I would go to
Heather, I would lead on my teamto do things like that.
So I think marketing is thesame, and finding and vetting
(48:49):
someone and doing it verycarefully and going with your
gut on this is a good match anda good match for me versus I
just need somebody, but I would.
I would strongly suggest doingthat.
What did one?
Uh, one of our earlierrelationships within advertising
was, um, like stoppingadvertising, as like trying to
stop a clock, which is more theidea of like you should always
(49:13):
advertise because, like I'm sureyou can attest to, if anyone
who watches tv or sees acommercial like, those are
really big, multi-billion dollarcompanies that are still
advertising.
Right, mcdonald's, Coca-Cola,pepsi, some of the really big,
long-standing companies outthere they don't stop
advertising just because they'resuper popular.
They just advertise more andmore and more.
(49:34):
And that's like some of therealtors that we have in the
area the busier they get and themore well known they get, the
more money they put intoadvertising.
And so obviously you have tolook at your margins and look at
what's possible and make surethat you're doing some things
that might be a return oninvestment.
But I can't say what those are.
(49:54):
I can't say for sure.
I know that we had limitedsuccess with radio, but we did
try.
But that's not just, andthere's still that's what helps
run radio stations is theadvertising dollars that they
get.
So it didn't work for us but itworks for lots of people.
But would we go into marketingfor radio?
Probably not.
(50:15):
Would we put our name and brandon buses again?
Probably not.
Oh, interesting, but we did.
And so focus a little bit moreon some community initiatives
and some more targeted smallermarkets, especially now that
we've been open for a while.
Do I think that we could domore marketing?
(50:36):
I mean, I always do, but it'sjust finding the smart ones that
make sense.
Like for a long time we didn'tdo.
We've got some billboards likeright around our plaza that we
didn't do for a long time.
We've got some billboards likeright around our plaza that we
didn't do for a long time.
But then, when we openedSynapse, I felt like we should
probably like inquire about thisagain, just to get the brand
visibility out there.
So right, because if someoneneeds at least seven times to
(51:00):
notice something like, you'vegot to find other ways to do it.
So, yeah, long story short, Ithink everybody should either
look for a marketer or find akey team and someone that fits
in their budget and even if itfeels like it might not like, I
still think it's super importantbecause it's just, it's a, it's
(51:20):
a broader scale to get yourselfout there.
Even if it was just SEO or yoursearch engine stuff, like even
to help you move in that area,like I think it it's, it's still
worth it.
So we're always trying to findnew ways to get our name out
there.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Um, because, like I mentioned, we can't do it by
ourselves how do you have theconversation with your marketer
on what's working and what's notworking?
Is that just you guys doregular meetings?
Does she create a report foryou?
How does that work?
Kind?
Speaker 1 (51:47):
of, like all of them, we're actually quite good
friends and so it's yeah, we'reable to say like I don't really
like this or I don't like thisin the social, or can we switch
it to this?
Or can I get a report on thatGoogle Analytics?
Because I'm not seeing anuptick.
Like we had discussed, we haddiscussed this percentage of an
increase and it's nowhere nearthat.
(52:09):
Like, can I see what's going on?
Um, I mean, I evaluate to, Iusually ask for like what does
this mean?
But I still want to know, likewe talked about this being the
return and this isn't happening,and so, like, what do we need
to do differently?
And even karina has outsourcedto some other experts, because I
don't expect her to knoweverything either.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Yeah, I love that one .
So it's just no, go ahead.
No, you go ahead.
Okay, I was just going to moveon to the next question.
I thought we Okay, what is nextfor Park Integrative Health?
What is your next vision forwhat's coming?
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Well, our next vision is continuing to build the team
at Synapse.
So we've got fourphysiotherapists and two
chiropractors.
We want to continue to buildthe team because, funnily enough
, all the physiotherapists thatwe have are moms, and so we
don't have a full-timephysiotherapist.
We have four who work a coupleof days a week because they have
(53:07):
families, which is great fornow.
So it's really building outthat and we are really excited
where we're going.
So this is all you know this.
Nothing's ever 100 percent andwe've learned that a sexual
health division for all,identifying people, as well as
(53:30):
ideally adding a physician whomay or may not be accepting new
patients I can't say that forsure.
It's a really big deal to havea physician who's accepting.
So I can't say that for sure,but we're looking at expanding
that and we've always been onthe hunt for a naturopathic
doctor to join our team.
We're just really active inthat search right now.
Before it was just passive, andit was.
(53:51):
We did some interviews anddidn't really find the right fit
, but now we feel like it'ssomething that's really vital to
add to the medical team.
So that's the next step and thenI would say that, if all goes
according to plan, our next stepwould be opening up our own
mental health division in itsown bay.
(54:12):
So even though we just renovatedall four of our counseling
rooms with new flooring and airconditioning units and
everything, we're hoping that atsome, at some point, that would
be the next expansion is movingmental health to its own space
where we could have a playtherapy room and kind of do a
(54:33):
little bit more than can be donein just single rooms.
So that's what we would belooking to do would be to take
those four rooms and put theminto a new bay and then whatever
else we could, and thenrepurpose the four rooms that we
have to accommodate addedgrowth.
So if I had to speculate whatwe would be looking at, that's
(54:54):
likely the next step.
We'd also talked about addingpsychedelic-assisted therapy
into that building, since thatis something that is coming more
to the forefront.
So those are all things thatwe're working on.
Um in the background.
I just think we'd be probably alittle bit more strategic in
the timing of an additional bay,because there is still one
(55:14):
available in the plaza, but umsynapse hasn't even been open
for for a year yet.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
So yeah, well, I am so grateful that you came today
and shared your story with meand with all of our listeners
who will hear it, so Iappreciate your time so much.
I think there's so many nuggetsof wisdom that people are going
to get from this conversation,so thank you so much, of course.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Thank you, and I'm always happy to come back.
But then, as I, you know, got closer to my 30s and
some differing life stressesstarted piling on, I found that
I was feeling less and less well, and so what unwell looked like
to me would have been that Iwas a highly functioning
alcoholic is what the physicalsymptoms would have been.
You know, we would call themepisodes, or it would just look
(00:23):
like Brandon's not feeling well.
He just needs to sleep it off,which sometimes helped.
But ultimately, like I justkept saying like no, like
something is wrong, like thisobviously isn't normal.
None of you guys are actinglike this and so like
something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Brandon Jacobs often says that without integrative
health care, his life wouldn'tbe the same.
Brandon Jacobs often says thatwithout integrative healthcare,
his life wouldn't be the same.
A persistent feeling of beingoff led him on a years-long
journey to find the source ofhis symptoms.
Brandon was eventuallydiagnosed with a rare disorder
that processes certain foods andturns it into ethanol in the
body, making him feel drunk.
The experience inspired Brandonto create his clinic Park
(01:02):
Integrated Health, located inhis hometown of Sherwood Park,
alberta, canada.
What makes his clinic unique isthe combination of primary care
providers and health andwellness professionals, such as
massage therapists andacupuncturists.
With this blended model, he'sbeen able to offer a truly
revolutionary healthcareexperience.
If there's a need, he tries tofill it all while educating
(01:23):
people on the benefits of theintegrative model.
Welcome to Radio Front Desk, ashow that surfaces what real
people in real clinics are doingto open, run and grow
successful health and wellnessbusinesses.
I'm your host, denzel Ford,editor-in-chief of Front Desk
Magazine by JNAP.
Here we have powerfulconversations with health and
wellness professionals on thebusiness side of clinic life.
(01:44):
We hear their stories anddiscover what works and how to
do it, and we also talk aboutwhat doesn't work.
If you want to check out morestories like this, head to
janeapp forward slash front desk.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah Well, I'd like to start by getting to know you
a little better, if that's okay.
So I'm just wondering if youcould tell me your background,
(02:19):
maybe get into a little bit ofyour early life, that kind of
inspired your career, if therewas anything like that and what
brought you here today to talkto me.
Well, when I left teaching, Istarted to do that and I thought
this probably won't besustainable long term.
So I took massage therapy andthen I also thought, well, this
might not be sustainable for mywhole life and so I took a whole
bunch of yoga training.
So I started to bridge all ofthose into some holistic and
allied health healing.
(02:40):
And along the way I met Heather,my partner and the mother to my
daughter, and Nija Bakshi, whois one of our co-founders and
she was a massage client of mine.
And we went through, you know,she was a client of mine for a
good 10, 12 years.
And as we started to build arelationship, Heather and I
(03:03):
always thought, like, well, whenyou graduate from acupuncture
school, what are we going to do?
And we thought we would do liketraining, massage, yoga,
acupuncture, and open up alittle clinic.
And Nija on this other side waslike what are you and Heather
going to do when she finishes?
And so I told her and she'slike well, I'm really looking to
get out of inpatient medicinein the hospital and I was
(03:26):
thinking that like we could worktogether and see if physicians
and allied health providerscould work together as equals Do
you?
Is that something that you'd beinterested in?
And we kind of went from.
We kind of went from there.
I said yes, and so we startedworking on some background stuff
over 18 months before we openedin 2017.
(03:46):
And Heather was like well, howare you going to do that and can
I help?
And so we joined forces, alongwith Nija's husband, Mahesh, who
does a whole bunch of thefinite skills that we don't have
, like fixing things andaccounting and that sort of
thing.
And we just all joined togetherand really were invested in the
(04:12):
area of Sherwood Park.
That's where I grew up, that'swhere Mahesh's parents are and
that's where Heather and I livenow.
And so you know, long storyshort, educational wise, and
that's kind of where how we gothere yeah, okay, there's so much
to dive into in that.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Um, I also understand you have a really interesting
personal health journey, thatsort of informed your way of
moving through being a businessowner and being involved in
health care.
Could you, could you talk aboutthat a little bit?
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Where would you like me to start in that part of the
journey?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Well, from what I understand, you have a long
history with not feeling welland you didn't know why for a
long time.
Maybe start there.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Okay, so I can say that my first recollection was
around when I was 13, playingbaseball at my wasn't my high
school yet, but it eventuallywas and I just remember like not
feeling like myself in spite ofhaving eaten well and being
hydrated, I just like didn'tfeel like myself.
My dad would have described meas like not being there or that,
(05:20):
just like something was off,and so that's kind of my first
memory of it.
And then the memories are kindof scattered.
I remember it happening when Iwas playing Alberta basketball
when I was probably 16 or 17.
I was on the bus and you know,my teammates were just like
what's wrong with you?
And of course, like in that agecategory, you're like nothing,
(05:41):
like nothing's wrong, like whatdo you mean?
And so I got and you know, as Iaged, like I still got
defensive.
But you know, upon a lot ofreflection, people were just
looking out for me, because whenyou don't show up the way you
normally do and people check inon you like they're not doing it
because something's wrong,they're doing it because they
care about you.
And I found it happened alittle bit in when I was playing
(06:04):
university volleyball.
Probably not a whole lot, um,but then, as I, you know, got
closer to my thirties and some,some differing life stresses
started piling on, I found thatI was feeling less and less well
, and so what unwell looked liketo me would have been that I
was a highly functioningalcoholic, is what the physical
(06:25):
symptoms would have been.
That I was a highly functioningalcoholic is what the physical
symptoms would have been, inspite of, you know, being with
Heather for an entire day, notout of her sight, my cognitive
functioning would just kind ofdecline throughout the day.
You know, we would call themepisodes, or it would just look
like Brandon's not feeling well,he just needs to sleep it off,
(06:45):
which sometimes helped.
But ultimately, like I justkept saying like no, like
something is wrong, like thisobviously isn't normal, none of
you guys are acting like thisand so like something's wrong.
So, by a stroke of I don't know, I don't know, just call it
like thankfully, because withoutintegrative health care, like I
don't know, I don't know, justcall it like thankfully, because
(07:05):
without integrative healthcare,like I wouldn't be alive.
Heather and I were watching a TVshow and a man named Dr Kenodia
was on the TV and there was areenactment of a man who was at
a pizza shop got pulled over bythe police.
He couldn't walk a straightline, could hardly talk.
He was a devout non drinker andit was just a reenactment of
(07:25):
how food can interact inpeople's systems.
So essentially at the time,food would interact in a way
with me that produced ethanol inmy system, and so we didn't
know this at the time, but wesaw this reenactment so I flew
to Ohio to meet with Dr Kanodiaand I was basically like, can
you help me?
(07:45):
So he's a functional, he's afunctional medicine specialist,
so he's an MD, and an MDoperating out of Ohio, as I
mentioned and you know, so kindof began a journey of some
testing, so all kinds ofdifferent testing and
supplementation.
He's still my doctor today, butI did end up getting diagnosed
(08:06):
with some lesser known diagnoses, which are auto brewery
syndrome and SIBO, which issmall intestinal bacterial
overgrowth, which, as Imentioned to Alex and Baz before
, more people know about it nowbecause it's been more
mainstream it was even like oneof the episodes on Grey's
(08:26):
Anatomy.
So you know, 10 years ago, whenit was when it was happening to
me, it was less known Like Iwent to my doctor not to pit it
against doctors, but I went tomy doctor at the time and told
him what was going on.
He basically said, like that'snot real Because at the time it
wasn't a real diagnosis.
But right.
You know.
So you know I knew thatsomething was wrong and we just
(08:51):
kept exploring and exploring andexploring and, you know,
finally we found.
So when I met with Dr Kanodia I, you know, he started helping
me on that end.
But I also started takingreally concerted self-care.
So stress reduction, whichwasn't only working out in yoga,
it came with massage andacupuncture and nutritional
changes, because even though Iwas eating healthy foods, they
(09:14):
weren't healthy for me.
No one would assume that eatingeggs and black pepper and
mustard and things like thatmight make their ethanol levels
high.
But after some food sensitivitytesting, like, yeah, very
interesting, but that's what washappening for me and that's
what happens to lots of people.
Now we can just more readilysee that, like, perhaps there's
(09:36):
something else going on with youand integrative healthcare or a
whole bunch of differentavenues that you can explore
might be able to help you.
And so that's, while all ofthis was happening, we were
still opening our company andHeather was still in school and
trying to do this full time.
But for me, that's why it's sucha passion project Not only is
(09:58):
it in my hometown but I get youknow a good number of people
from high school oracquaintances, like reaching out
and asking like can you help me?
I've reached some roadblocks.
I've tried these part andparcel things or these one off
things like is there somethingthat you can do or that you guys
offer that can help me, even ifit's not to see both a
(10:18):
physician and allied health.
Members like is there somethingthat you can do to help me?
Members like is there somethingthat you can do to help me?
So it's, it's very passionatefor me because, as I mentioned,
if integrative healthcare and DrKanodi and all the help that I
received on the back end Iwouldn't be alive.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Wow, yeah, that's really powerful.
Can we dive into theintegrative healthcare, a little
bit Piggybacking on that andlike so what do you?
How do you?
Well, two things.
First, you've mentioned theterm allied health and I just
want to make sure that all ofour listeners kind of are on the
same page with us on what wemean by that.
And then if you could do thesame with integrative health as
(10:55):
well, if you will.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
So allied health is basically what we decided to
call what was once calledalternative or complementary
modalities, so basicallyanything that's not considered
medical, like a medical doctoror a nurse practitioner.
We called allied because weview our team all as allied
members together.
So they're allied with themedical system and allied with
(11:20):
themselves.
They're not complementary andthey're not alternative.
They're you know, they'reallies in your health journey.
So that's that's what we havechosen to call, to call that
area, because before my titlewas the Director of Holistic
Health, which made sense at thetime because they were holistic
modalities or that's kind of howthey were viewed and we just
(11:41):
wanted to amplify the way thatwe viewed them and the way that
we want the public to view allkinds of avenues of care.
So we decided to call it allied.
And as far as integrativehealth care, we call it
integrative instead ofintegrated, because integrated
denotes that there's a stop, butintegrative means it's ongoing
and ever-changing, and so wecalled it park integrative
(12:03):
health because we knew it wouldalways be evolving.
We had no idea what the team orthe modalities or anything would
look like and they have vastlychanged over the years and
they've changed which servicesare most popular at any given
time, and what we're reallytrying to do is show that
(12:23):
healthcare can really just beuniversal.
It's not one side, so to speak,over the other.
It's not medical versus allied,or my doctor did this or my
chiropractor did this.
We try and elevate all of themodalities to the best of our
ability, knowing that we won'tbe able to.
You know, please, everybody andnot everyone's going to have
the same viewpoint.
Integrative healthcare is justnew in practice.
(12:45):
It's not new in theory, becausethat's how that's a medicine's
practice, you know, all over theworld.
It's just a little bit newerhere, at least in our area, a
little bit maybe in yours andacross Canada.
It's not as common as otherplaces in the world.
So we're trying to, you know,get a foothold on how we can
change the way healthcare isexperienced in Canada.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
I love that so much, and what I noticed about your
clinic is that you have many ofthese allied healthcare options
within it, and then you alsohave physicians, so could you
talk about how those two thingsexist within the same world and
maybe bring us inside the clinica little bit Like what's it
like to be there?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I mean I, I I love it there.
I mean I, I really I took a lotof places that I worked and
really focused on the thingsthat I didn't like or the ways I
didn't like to be treated.
And they won't obviously callanybody out, but have some
really pinnacle moments thathappen with every place that I
worked that I was like, oh, ifI'm ever fortunate enough to run
(13:48):
something or lead people orhelp people have a job for their
families, like this is how Iwould want to do it.
So when you come in, you'regreeted with nice, friendly
faces, very fresh branding,greenery and essentially all of
the tones and colors andeverything that we've picked are
so that essentially you wouldfeel safe in the space.
(14:09):
You wouldn't know that you'rehere to see a doctor or that
you're here for therapy or thatyou're here to see a massage
therapist.
Everyone is treated the same inthe waiting room.
The difference is that youpredominantly go to the west
side of the building if you'reseeing a physician and the east
side if you're going to alliedhealth.
But that's grown and evolvedand changed over the last seven
years.
So essentially you'll go toyour appointment and there's
(14:33):
obviously we have lots ofoptions.
But the biggest thing is thatyou it's not really a choose
your own adventure, but thereare a lot of options.
So while our physicians rightnow happen to be full, because
there's a huge demand to have afamily physician, we offer
something that Heather actuallyhas produced in all of our
(14:56):
processes, and those sort ofthings are the things that she
excels in.
So all of the programs andthose sort of things that we
have are from her brain.
I just get to talk about them.
So the client care program is atthe core of our company and
it's the bridge.
It's the bridge group of peopleand the bridge thought that you
(15:18):
can refer from the physicianteam to the ally team.
You can refer from the allyteam to the allied team.
You can refer from the alliedteam to the allied team, or the
public can self-refer themselvesto one of those streams,
depending on who's available.
So I would say it's kind oflike a health coach, only it's
more like starting at thebeginning of your journey.
So let's say you're reallyinterested in park integrative
(15:41):
health.
You know that there's not adoctor accepting, or you have a
doctor but you're not sure whereto start with allied health,
you could book a client careconsult, virtually or in person,
and you could come and sit downand essentially it's a way for
you to tell your story, for theclient care coordinator, um, to
listen and to essentially seewhat your goals of treatment are
(16:04):
, what modalities you've had,which ones you're interested in,
and then to remove or at leasttalk about any barriers that you
have.
So that could be finance, time,personality, you know what have
you, and then essentially theycan help you book and build a
plan.
Then you go into our clientcare program and then the client
(16:24):
care coordinator is the onethat checks in with you.
So essentially, they check inevery couple of weeks, see, like
you know, maybe you missed anappointment, hi, so, and so we
see that you did miss yourappointment.
Like, is everything okay?
Are you still interested inthis modality?
So essentially they getfollowed until they, you know,
are maybe a more stronger agentof their, of their own health.
(16:47):
Maybe they need a little lesshelp, maybe they need less help
booking.
But we do lots of consults thatway.
Or instead of having, say, ahallway conversation where I say
to someone hey, you know, I'mglad you enjoyed your treatment,
I've already rebooked them,like I think you'd really
benefit from acupuncture insteadof simply having it in the
hallway and that person beinglike, yeah, yeah, sure, I'll
(17:09):
probably book acupuncture maybeone day, and then it's gone out
of their brain.
We can either put a task inJane funnily enough, hi, this
client is looking for moreinformation on acupuncture and
one of the client carecoordinators contacts them or we
do it a little bit more in realtime, but then we send consult
letters back and forth aboutthis person's collaborative care
.
We have a consent form forpeople to enter the client care
(17:32):
program where, if they wanteveryone to be able to view
their chart notes so the care iscollaborative then we do that.
And then if they requestsomething even deeper, like a
patient case conference or aclient care conference where all
of their providers get togetherto discuss what they're doing
for their care, we also do that.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, wow, that's quite a lot.
It's quite a lot.
What is your approach togetting patients or clients to
understand the value of thesedifferent modalities and the
other options that are availableto them?
Like, how does thatconversation go?
Speaker 1 (18:11):
It's been evolving over the years.
So I will say when we firststarted, there was, admittedly
like a lot of pushback, notsimply from the community or the
medical community, which therewas, but more from clients not
quite understanding like it camein here for my free health care
and now my physician is sayingthat I should book a massage,
(18:35):
but I should book it in thisbuilding where I have to pay,
which is true because it's stilla business.
But also, instead of referringout, what we did is we created
some posters that were brandedand tailored to every
physician's panel and we put itin the rooms, such as do you
suffer from depression oranxiety?
(18:56):
And then on the bottom it'llsay perhaps you would benefit
from a referral to our mentalhealth team, like talk to a
client care coordinator.
So then it allowed the clientto be more of the agent of like
hey, that is me and I would liketo hear more about that instead
of it feeling like it was thetop down, the doctor knows
everything.
Because one of the things welike the most about the team of
(19:18):
physicians that we have is thatthey're allowed and empowered to
say I don't know, but I do havea whole team of over 50 people
that could probably help youbecause I don't know everything,
and so that's how moreconversations are started.
But, more than anything, it'ssimply education.
So we have lots of ways to dothat.
Instead of having pamphlets, wehave unassuming QR codes that
(19:42):
link us to our website so peoplecan peruse as they wish.
We have our services, vision,mission, values and our team in
the waiting room with some light, ambient music so that if
that's what people want to watch, they certainly can.
Our nursing team or our admin ormoa team.
(20:02):
They might have more of ahallway conversation like hey, I
hear you, I see you're here infor this like.
Is a referral to x, y, z ofinterest to you?
If not, like, please talk toyour.
Like, please talk to dr x andif so, look, you can come back
out and talk to me about it andI can book you something.
So it's more just educatingthat we do have more modalities,
but you're not bound to seeingany of them.
(20:24):
And if you want an externalreferral, you know absolutely.
But it's really just to educatepeople not just that we have
the modalities but that thereare other options.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, I love that, and when I'm on your website, I
was like kind of shocked at howmany different options you have.
So I am too.
Maybe you could just quicklygive us a laundry list.
And then I'm wondering how youmade the decision to to bring in
the ones that you brought in.
How, how was that decision madeto to choose acupuncture or
(20:59):
whatever you're going to choose?
Sure?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
So when we started, like I was a massage therapist
before so I just assumed likemost people have benefits,
especially here for massage, soI thought massage was definitely
going to carry the allied team.
So we started out really smallwith four core things, which
were massage, acupuncture,mental health and nutrition.
(21:21):
So I started there and thenit's really just evolved.
It's evolved.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I just have to interrupt you for a second to
just congratulate you that thatwas your starting point.
I mean, that is quite a group,so please continue.
I'm sorry.
But that's like right out ofthe gate.
That's a huge, wonderfulstarting point.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Yeah, thank you, and that's what I thought we needed
at the beginning, and we stilldo.
Those are definitely ourlongest standing modalities and
then it's really just evolved.
It's evolved as people havecome in and they've, you know,
wanted to offer other things.
We have a nurse practitionermodel.
Now that's different than someothers.
(22:05):
It is fee for service.
Some clinics have their nursepractitioners see their medical
panel and we just have taken adifferent approach.
But that was just in a way tosupport the medical team.
As another offering, we offerour new building, synapse by
Park.
Integrative Health houses ourphysiotherapy and chiropractic
(22:26):
team.
Essentially, we outgrew thespace the community had been
asking, like when are you goingto have physio and when are you
going to have chiro in?
There was a five year hold inthe plaza, so we kind of had to
wait till that lapsed anyway,and then so we expanded so we
could grow the team in that way,but still in the plaza.
So it's technically still underone roof, because we all share
(22:48):
a roof, but it's just in two.
Um, it is in two buildings umpark.
Integrative health is unit 970and synapse is unit 910, so
they're not that far apart, um,and we offer medical aesthetics.
We are adding an intimatehealth or a sexual health
division in the coming monthswith a physician who is in our
(23:09):
community that reached out andwanted to do some work with us.
We have occupational therapy,and occupational therapy came
out of a demand from the longCOVID community because we still
do run one of the only longCOVID programs in Alberta.
Dr Bakshi was kind of the leadat one of our hospitals, not
kind of, she was the lead at oneof our hospitals and so we
(23:32):
still run a long COVID clinic.
So occupational therapy and avery specialist physiotherapist
that we have came because thatwas a demand that was needed.
That's all I can think of offthe top of my head before I go
off on a tangent.
So it's a lot and there's somemore, and some of it's been
diversified because some of themassage therapists offer some
(23:55):
things that are a bit outside ofmassage therapy, like manual
osteopathic therapy, which isdifferent than osteopathic
manual therapy, and we have both.
We have MOTs and we have an OMT, and so the education around
that has been important, justlike the education around the
difference between what a RD soregistered dietitian does versus
(24:15):
a certified holisticnutritional consultant.
They have similar educationsbut take differing approaches,
and so it's been a lot abouteducating our team first so they
can talk about it, and then thepublic second, and so it's just
, it's just evolved.
I rarely turn away somethingthat somebody wants to try
(24:37):
because I think like, well, ifnot us, who, why don't you try
that?
Why don't you see if it worksLike we?
Why don't you see if it worksLike we can work together and
see if this is something thatbrings you joy or fulfills your
practice or your family?
And we just kind of go fromthere.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Yeah.
So if I'm hearing you correctly, some of your decisions were
made because you kind of thoughtit would be good to have, and
some of it were patientsactually asking you for for a
certain type of treatment.
Is that correct?
Definitely?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
and we are the first to say, like we don't know, we
don't know everything, and so,like, if you have an idea or
feedback or something that youwant, like let's sit down and
talk about it, because wedefinitely haven't, we haven't
thought of it, of everything.
So, um, yeah, some of it's comefrom a demand, or we see that
there was a need that we didn'trealize there might be, because
I trialed occupational therapybefore COVID and it was a really
(25:28):
big flop and there just wasn'tthe demand.
The occupational therapist thatwe had is amazing, but she came
from the school system and lotsof people were looking for
occupational therapy like returnto work plan, and lots of
people were looking foroccupational therapy like return
to work plan More like whatother people would think like
occupational therapy, as theygot hurt on the job and I need
to get back to work and herniche was a little bit different
(25:51):
.
But then she had a differentniche that we just couldn't fill
at the time.
And then long COVID came andnow we have two occupational
therapists and they're bothquite busy.
One works, you know,predominantly virtual and she's
busy also.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
So I have a bit of an abstract follow-up question Do
you have a sense of wherepatients and clients are getting
the information they getoutside of your clinic on what
they think about the differenttypes of healthcare Because
you're talking about?
You know, in one moment in timea certain type of treatment not
really being in demand, butthen, after an event, it becomes
(26:30):
in demand?
Where is that coming from?
I guess, more generally insociety it's kind of a big
question, but I don't know.
I don't know if you have anythoughts on that.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I think in general, it is the knowledge that not
everyone holds all of theinformation and not one thing
works for everybody.
Everyone who has had some sortof self-care has probably had a
bad experience.
That doesn't mean that thatperson is a bad person or a bad
provider.
That person likely hadsomething going on for them that
(27:00):
nobody knows about.
And so I think, instead of justsaying like that modality
doesn't work, it could just belike that modality didn't work
for me at that time, becausethere are hundreds of thousands
of success stories for eachmodality.
So I think people are educatingthemselves more and taking a bit
more agency over what you know,what knowledge means, and that
(27:27):
the physician A doesn't knoweverything and B doesn't have to
know everything.
They don't have to.
They don't have to hold all ofthe cards and they likely don't
want to because it's a.
It's a high pressure job,especially in family medicine,
where you kind of go to them foreverything.
I mean we can't be expectedthat they know everything in the
world.
So it's great for us for themto have a very trusted team and
(27:51):
a trusted brand in the communityto refer to.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah.
Can you talk about yourbusiness partner who is a
physician and what was herexperience collaborating with
you to?
About your business partner whois a physician and what was her
experience collaborating withyou to build this business, and
where do you think her interestin having that partnership came
from?
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Well, I will do my best to speak on her behalf,
because, obviously she's nothere.
So I think she is very forwardthinking and so I wouldn't say
that she's necessarily like aunicorn, but I would say at the
time she could see that medicinecould be done differently, that
(28:35):
it could be changed, that therewere more options.
There are still physicians thatwe know that don't believe in
modalities like acupuncture,even though acupuncture has been
around for thousands of years.
So I think it took anopen-minded physician to want to
do something different.
(28:55):
And then, essentially becauseHeather and I built such a
trusting relationship with herand her twin girls, I think she
just inherently trusted us thatwe would make good decisions on
what modalities we would bringin.
And so I think it came just likeany business like.
It comes from relationshipbuilding, because they're all
(29:15):
businesses of humans for themost part, especially when it
comes to self care or your body,like.
Like it's all a business ofhumans, so, and they're messy
and they need help.
And essentially you need to beopen-minded if you, if you want
to try something new.
And so I think she went througha lot of strife amongst
colleagues and the medicalcommunity in general, saying
(29:36):
like that's not going to work orthat's not a real thing or you
know whatever kinds of thingsthat I don't even know.
That was said and I think shejust disagreed or buried it
somewhere and and moved forward.
And here we are, almost sevenyears later, with, you know, an
expansion and a thriving companyand people still connecting
(29:58):
with us who have been turnedaway from where they work for
someone that they want to tryfor the betterment of the
community.
And we said like, yeah, let'stry it.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, I love it.
You just mentioned expansion.
Maybe we can flip a little bitand talk about your growth story
.
So I understand that yourclinic was the first of its kind
in Edmonton, Alberta.
So what was that like?
How did you get off the groundfrom the start?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
You know, we had a lot of like haphazard meetings
and a lot of like coffee shoptalk.
That was more, like you know,truly it was the four of us
coming together having a lot ofdifferent skill sets.
I was fairly connected in thehealth and wellness communities.
I knew some people that I couldcontact, even though we did
hold open interviews.
(30:51):
And Nija, she was runninginternal medicine in the company
and she had a physician in mindthat was going to join us.
But essentially it was how areyou going to do that?
What are the systems going tobe?
That was even more importantbecause, like you can have a lot
of really big ideas, but theanswer is, the question is
always like how are you going todo that and how will you make
that successful?
So, as I had mentioned, likethat's where heather came in and
(31:14):
was like we need things like ahuman resources manual and and
that sort of thing.
And so we really started on theon the back end 18 months, even
even beforehand, even before wewere looking at spaces, um,
because you wanted, we knew itwas going to be a really big
responsibility to employ people,um, and we wanted to make sure
(31:34):
that, even though it's evolvedand changed and obviously we
still didn't get it right in thebeginning, like we did our best
and we didn't, we didn't rushit by any means, and so we
started long before we opened.
And then I would say, when weexpanded, we, you know, we we
went a little bit quickerbecause we thought we had a lot
of knowledge, which we still did, but I would say that the
(31:56):
expansion happened a lot quickerfrom the first time we talked
about it to when it actuallybecame a thing.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
I love that you mentioned the Human Resources
Manual because I'm fascinated byall the little nitty gritty
things that people need to do torun these businesses, to open
them, to keep them afloat in apositive way.
Has that document changed sincethe very beginning to now,
where you have a lot more staffthat would be needing to work
(32:26):
under that manual?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Oh yeah, it changes all the time.
It's a living document.
It gets changed and updated andit all comes from things you
didn't think you need to put ina human resources manual.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
It comes from the mistakes.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
When something goes wrong, you're like let's add it
to the manual it also was a goodreminder for us that, um,
people view the worlddifferently and so, even if we
take our values, for example, um, like a value, like integrity,
it does mean different things todifferent people.
So in our manual we've and evenour team at the time like we
had them right, like what doesit mean to you?
(33:01):
Because it means differentthings to different people and
we were finding that there wassome.
You know, we do a valuesexercise even before, like in
our interview process, becausewe found that if our values
don't align, we're probably notgoing to be aligned to work
together.
But that's the biggest thingthat changed in the human human
resources manual, which was, um,the way we do the work and why,
(33:23):
and everyone being on the samepage of like what that actually
means, because there's tons ofdefinitions for lots of words in
the dictionary and so it wasmore of a yeah, this is what
this to us.
This is what it means, like toshow up with integrity.
This is what it means.
This is what patient andclient-centered care means to us
, instead of just this is ourvalue and it means to you what
(33:44):
it means to you.
So it's an always changingdocument, because healthcare and
business and people are alwaysevolving anyway, so it needs to
be an updated living document.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yeah, I love that.
Can we dive into the peoplefirst, care and culture of your
clinic and how do you approachthat?
I'm assuming that's one of yourvalues.
So if I'm right about that,yeah, so tell me how you do
define that.
And then, what are the nuts andbolts of how it looks from day
(34:17):
to day, what people are expectedto do?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
So is this patient so this patient center, like for
the public or for our team, isit really for the team.
Like your people first, culturewithin your clinic yeah, well,
you know, building a reallypositive culture was really
important to me when we firstopened.
We went to some conferences.
We went to a thing called thecult conference, uh, out in
Banff, alberta, um, and got somereally great um stuff there.
(34:43):
Um, we went to some leadershipconferences because, I mean,
we've all been in leadershiproles in some sense but, like
other people, have a lot moreknowledge.
So we did our study and somehomework on what we wanted that
to look like and feel like andso it looks it's kind of more in
like the smaller details, atleast on my end in my portfolio
like people fill out like a lovelanguages form or a client, you
(35:07):
know, a staff memberappreciation form when they
start.
So we know how they like to getfeedback.
We know what's important tothem, you know, stemming from
the five love languages.
Obviously even that has evolvedover the years, stemming from
the five love languages.
Obviously even that has evolvedover the years.
But there's no sense in givingsomebody a gift card if their
love language is quality time asan example.
(35:29):
So we do celebrate people'sbirthdays and anniversaries and
that sort of thing and we tryand tailor that to what their
specification is, which is a lotto go through with 50 plus
people.
But that's part of my role isremembering everyone's birthday
and anniversary and milestoneanniversaries.
They get a little bit extra.
And birthdays I always send atext or an email and everyone
(35:51):
still gets a card and somepeople have had six or seven
cards for their birthdaysbecause they've been with us
from the very beginning.
We offer wellness days insteadof sick days because we really
want to support that.
Like, you can take a day offwhen you need to take a day off,
just make sure it doesn'taffect your team.
You know, to the best of yourability.
We're very, I would say, looseon things like timely lunches,
(36:17):
because we still we know peopleneed to recharge and so long as
the work is getting done in aneffective manner, we like to
think that we offer a lot.
We don't often offer a superstrict dress code because I want
people to express how they feeland their own personality
within some guidelines, but wedon't have uniforms or anything
(36:41):
like that.
You know, I know everyone's namename.
I know lots about theirfamilies, as much as I can.
We do frequent check-ins and soI've found over the years that,
even though it hasn't landedfor everybody and even though
not everyone stays with us foryears and years like I, do my
very best to hope that they feelcared for, appreciated, valued
(37:04):
um, and if they don't likethey're welcome, they're welcome
to reach out um.
A couple times a year.
I ask for feedback.
That I never want, but italways makes the company better
um, and so I just try and letthem know that I do really care
about them and while we are abusiness and so we need to make
money, so they can make moneyand we can all support our
(37:27):
families, I still always want todo what's best for them and I
try to let them know like thisis this feedback is what I
believe is best for you, notwhat's best for the company.
Because they still let people to, for the most part, create
their own schedules.
They get to block off the timethat they need.
We try and treat them as truecontractors.
Can't deny them vacation time,can't deny them sick time.
(37:48):
I don't say you can't block offthe last client of your day and
I would say sure, maybe that'sto the detriment of the bottom
dollar sometimes.
But I'd rather have people workwith us for five, six, seven,
ten years part-time and be superhappy, you know, have a set
schedule and a quota and havethem be with us for two.
(38:08):
So try and be as flexible as Ican.
One thing that we learned, evenout of us having a child, is
helping support our team thatdoes go on a leave, and so we'll
be coming up on supporting our28th team member with a
maternity leave so very wellversed in that and trying to
(38:29):
help them come back in a waythat is good for them and their
family and still allows them.
You know, we cut shifts or timeslots short so they can be home
for bedtime or have a laterstart time so that they can drop
them off at school and all thatsort of thing.
So we do our very, our very,very best, um, within the
constraints of still needing tokeep the doors open, so a lot of
(38:52):
stuff goes on in the backgroundfor those things to be possible
, um, and as I talked about as,like leadership and doing those
sort of things can be superlonely because they're all the
background stuff that, um, thatpeople don't get.
But when you give themone-on-one attention, like
they're the only person thatyou're, you know, working with
right now, you know it's easy toforget that we're also doing
(39:14):
that with 50 plus other people.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Right, yeah, there's so much in there that I think
our listeners can draw from.
Personally, I am inspired byyou using the five love
languages to interact with yourteam, because I I don't have the
same love language as mostpeople at work.
I actually want more work.
I want more work.
(39:38):
That's what I feel, like Idon't.
I don't want someone to say youdid a good job.
I want them to give me morework and more responsibility,
and to me, that's the equivalentof yay, you did a good job,
denzel.
But so many other people aren'tyet there.
They actually want me to sayyou did amazing, and I have to
remember that.
But, like, using the model ofthe five love language is
(39:59):
exactly that exercise ofremembering that other people
need something different thanwhat I need.
Yeah, okay.
So all of that has really setyou up and you have expanded to
a second location.
So would you?
Would you talk about that?
When did you make that decision?
When did you feel confidentthat?
Speaker 1 (40:19):
that was the right thing.
And how did you do that?
Well, I'll just like be superhonest.
So we've been really wanting toadd physiotherapy and
chiropractics.
Um, we were just like waitingfor this, this five-year
milestone, to to be gone and allthe restrictions in the plaza
to lapse, and so we had astrategy meeting in february
(40:40):
about k it's lapsed.
It lapsed in august.
Like it's time to startthinking about like how how can
we do this?
And so we started out small,with a couple of
physiotherapists just working inour within Park Integrative
Health.
But like physiotherapy for themost part, like probably needs
(41:01):
to be done in a bigger spacewhere they can at least move
around, not just a treatmentroom.
So we had a strategy meeting inFebruary and in March we bought
a bay.
So I would say, not a whole lotof planning went in other than,
like this bay's been available.
Our attention finally turned toit and like, if we don't do it
(41:23):
now, like we're not going to doit, because there's always a
reason not to.
So I would say we put in a lotless thought than maybe we could
have, but only because we'ddone it before.
So that's just kind of how thatwent.
We bought it and then it waslike, okay, start at the end,
and who are all the people thatwe need to get this in place?
(41:47):
So, first things first.
It was like, well, we obviouslyneed a designer and we need a
contracting team, and so that'skind of where we started
contacted a designer, made surethat she was part of the
architectures group so she couldtell us essentially the do's
and don'ts and can's and can'tsof the space that we bought.
Then there was find acontractor who wanted to do the
(42:10):
project, because you need thosethings in place really before
you can start anything.
The bay was a pizza and donairshop, so all that stuff is still
in there.
So it's really hard to likewalk in to see a donair shop and
think like this is going to bea physiotherapy space.
And then we just kind of startedwith, like our vision board of
(42:31):
what we wanted it to look likeand feel like and what we wanted
the experience to be like, andwe we worked from there.
So we went backward, back andforth a lot with our marketer
and with our design team, makingsure that, even though it might
take longer, that therenderings looked how we wanted
it and that, but that it wasalso still profitable, because
(42:54):
at first we're like, oh, let'shave like four private rooms and
a physiotherapy tub and thisand that.
And then it was like, well, ifyou want more than 10 people in
here, you have to have twobathrooms.
And then we're like, okay, likemaybe we'll just build an
upstairs, and they're like, well, that doesn't really work in
these space we had.
We had all these thoughts ofthings that we thought we could
do to maximize the space, butessentially it was here's what
(43:15):
you can actually put in it, andso we just had to work with it
because we already bought it.
So.
So I would say we put in lessthought into what we were buying
, but more.
It was such a big demand fromour community and when you're
like we needed to do something,something else and something
more, because we'd alreadyoutgrown the space for the most
(43:36):
part how are you, how are youmaking certain decisions around
what needs to be there from atreatment perspective,
considering you're not aphysical therapist,
physiotherapist?
I have a really good dialoguewith the team that I have and a
(43:57):
couple of external people that Ispoke with, which was
essentially like what do youneed?
Because I'm not aphysiotherapist, not a
chiropractor, like what do youneed?
And so I essentially, like,asked for a needs list, a want
list, a wish list and dream list, and I basically got what I
could from everybody.
But it's interesting becausewhat everybody wanted more than
anything was time with theirclients.
So, oh, interesting, yeah, sothat is one thing that we really
(44:22):
put out there is that there'snot a quota, there's not a time
schedule, there's not arestriction, like if they need
to spend more time with theirclients, they get.
I've really tried to is thatthere's not a quota, there's not
a time schedule, there's not arestriction, like if they need
to spend more time with theirclients, they get.
I've really tried to let peoplepractice the way that they want
to and need to practice.
If they want to run on the 10minute, they can.
If they want to run on the 20minute, they can.
And so because we do know thatwith the right team and with the
(44:45):
right level of attraction, thecompany will be successful.
And so I would say I just askedthem what they wanted and
needed and got what I could,which is also changing.
But yeah, they just they wantedtime.
They want, like I want to beable to spend time with my
clients.
So that's what we offered andthen, as new practitioners, come
(45:06):
in.
If there's something that theyneed, we see what it is that
they need and if it fits withina certain budget.
At that time of year it'seither a yes a yes at this time
or a no not at this time.
But let's circle back at thisdate.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
Right, yeah, I love that.
So let's just in our lastlittle bit here, if we could
talk about marketing a little.
A lot of our listeners findthat to be kind of an enigma how
do you do it?
There's a lot to choose from.
So I'm wondering if you couldtalk about what you did, what
you found to be most successfuland even, if you feel
(45:44):
comfortable, what you found tonot really work very well, and
why comfortable what you foundto not really work very well,
and why Sure?
Speaker 1 (45:55):
So as far as what I've learned in marketing, which
is a ton, I would say that it'sone of the most important
things that you can invest in.
Word of mouth is great, but wordof mouth only comes around if
you get your name out there,which marketing can do.
And so we went through a coupleof marketers at the beginning
that we and essentially likebutted some heads with um and so
they weren't a right fit, uh,but it was really early on.
(46:17):
Like we kind of went through acouple at the beginning because,
like I knew that's what weneeded, kind of like the
ambassadors that we have, like Iknow that I can't personally
spread the message ofintegrative health care just
because I grew up in SherwoodPark.
That's not really how it works.
And so I finally met who wehave now.
Her name is Karina.
(46:37):
She's been with us for comingup on six years in July, so
almost the entirety that we'vebeen open and essentially she
helps us with all of thebranding.
She does things like creating abrand Bible.
What you want your brand tolook like, feel like, does it
(46:58):
fit your personality.
And so essentially we did gothrough a recent rebrand when we
, when we were so while we wereopening Synapse, we went through
a rebrand and we redid ourwebsite.
So we decided we'll just do itall at the same time, which was
really great for theorganization.
Really stressful on our part,but we're all past that now.
(47:22):
But I would say, like finding amarketer, we're really lucky
because Karina kind of does itall.
She does our SEO and she doesour communications and she kind
of does everything where wedon't have to.
You know, she also does oursocial media, so it's not like
she we have someone doing socialmedia and we have someone else,
so it's kind of like she's ourlike integrative marketer, so to
(47:45):
speak, because I just made itup actually, so we, we can we
get to talk about all of thosethings in real time, and so I
really do think that, outside oflike all of the team members
that we have, she's one of thepeople that works in the back
(48:05):
end, that does a lot of thethankless work.
That, which is why we have alot of these forward facing
things in these programs Likeit's great that we can run
webinars, but how do we get thatmessage that we're running
webinars out there?
And then, like, how do we putit on a website?
Are all things that aren't inour strong suit and also things
that we don't necessarily wantto take the time to do.
(48:26):
So we'd rather pay an expertand put our time towards our
strengths.
Just like I don't do accounting, I'm sure I could learn, but
Mahesh has an accountingbackground.
As an example, right, I couldwrite the human resources manual
, but that's a strong suit ofHeather's, so I would go to
Heather, I would lead on my teamto do things like that.
So I think marketing is thesame, and finding and vetting
(48:49):
someone and doing it verycarefully and going with your
gut on this is a good match anda good match for me versus I
just need somebody, but I would.
I would strongly suggest doingthat.
What did one?
Uh, one of our earlierrelationships within advertising
was, um, like stoppingadvertising, as like trying to
stop a clock, which is more theidea of like you should always
(49:13):
advertise because, like I'm sureyou can attest to, if anyone
who watches tv or sees acommercial like, those are
really big, multi-billion dollarcompanies that are still
advertising.
Right, mcdonald's, Coca-Cola,pepsi, some of the really big,
long-standing companies outthere they don't stop
advertising just because they'resuper popular.
They just advertise more andmore and more.
(49:34):
And that's like some of therealtors that we have in the
area the busier they get and themore well known they get, the
more money they put intoadvertising.
And so obviously you have tolook at your margins and look at
what's possible and make surethat you're doing some things
that might be a return oninvestment.
But I can't say what those are.
(49:54):
I can't say for sure.
I know that we had limitedsuccess with radio, but we did
try.
But that's not just, andthere's still that's what helps
run radio stations is theadvertising dollars that they
get.
So it didn't work for us but itworks for lots of people.
But would we go into marketingfor radio?
Probably not.
(50:15):
Would we put our name and brandon buses again?
Probably not.
Oh, interesting, but we did.
And so focus a little bit moreon some community initiatives
and some more targeted smallermarkets, especially now that
we've been open for a while.
Do I think that we could domore marketing?
(50:36):
I mean, I always do, but it'sjust finding the smart ones that
make sense.
Like for a long time we didn'tdo.
We've got some billboards likeright around our plaza that we
didn't do for a long time.
We've got some billboards likeright around our plaza that we
didn't do for a long time.
But then, when we openedSynapse, I felt like we should
probably like inquire about thisagain, just to get the brand
visibility out there.
So right, because if someoneneeds at least seven times to
(51:00):
notice something like, you'vegot to find other ways to do it.
So, yeah, long story short, Ithink everybody should either
look for a marketer or find akey team and someone that fits
in their budget and even if itfeels like it might not like, I
still think it's super importantbecause it's just, it's a, it's
(51:20):
a broader scale to get yourselfout there.
Even if it was just SEO or yoursearch engine stuff, like even
to help you move in that area,like I think it it's, it's still
worth it.
So we're always trying to findnew ways to get our name out
there.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Um, because, like I mentioned, we can't do it by
ourselves how do you have theconversation with your marketer
on what's working and what's notworking?
Is that just you guys doregular meetings?
Does she create a report foryou?
How does that work?
Kind?
Speaker 1 (51:47):
of, like all of them, we're actually quite good
friends and so it's yeah, we'reable to say like I don't really
like this or I don't like thisin the social, or can we switch
it to this?
Or can I get a report on thatGoogle Analytics?
Because I'm not seeing anuptick.
Like we had discussed, we haddiscussed this percentage of an
increase and it's nowhere nearthat.
(52:09):
Like, can I see what's going on?
Um, I mean, I evaluate to, Iusually ask for like what does
this mean?
But I still want to know, likewe talked about this being the
return and this isn't happening,and so, like, what do we need
to do differently?
And even karina has outsourcedto some other experts, because I
don't expect her to knoweverything either.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
Yeah, I love that one .
So it's just no, go ahead.
No, you go ahead.
Okay, I was just going to moveon to the next question.
I thought we Okay, what is nextfor Park Integrative Health?
What is your next vision forwhat's coming?
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Well, our next vision is continuing to build the team
at Synapse.
So we've got fourphysiotherapists and two
chiropractors.
We want to continue to buildthe team because, funnily enough
, all the physiotherapists thatwe have are moms, and so we
don't have a full-timephysiotherapist.
We have four who work a coupleof days a week because they have
(53:07):
families, which is great fornow.
So it's really building outthat and we are really excited
where we're going.
So this is all you know this.
Nothing's ever 100 percent andwe've learned that a sexual
health division for all,identifying people, as well as
(53:30):
ideally adding a physician whomay or may not be accepting new
patients I can't say that forsure.
It's a really big deal to havea physician who's accepting.
So I can't say that for sure,but we're looking at expanding
that and we've always been onthe hunt for a naturopathic
doctor to join our team.
We're just really active inthat search right now.
Before it was just passive, andit was.
(53:51):
We did some interviews anddidn't really find the right fit
, but now we feel like it'ssomething that's really vital to
add to the medical team.
So that's the next step and thenI would say that, if all goes
according to plan, our next stepwould be opening up our own
mental health division in itsown bay.
(54:12):
So even though we just renovatedall four of our counseling
rooms with new flooring and airconditioning units and
everything, we're hoping that atsome, at some point, that would
be the next expansion is movingmental health to its own space
where we could have a playtherapy room and kind of do a
(54:33):
little bit more than can be donein just single rooms.
So that's what we would belooking to do would be to take
those four rooms and put theminto a new bay and then whatever
else we could, and thenrepurpose the four rooms that we
have to accommodate addedgrowth.
So if I had to speculate whatwe would be looking at, that's
(54:54):
likely the next step.
We'd also talked about addingpsychedelic-assisted therapy
into that building, since thatis something that is coming more
to the forefront.
So those are all things thatwe're working on.
Um in the background.
I just think we'd be probably alittle bit more strategic in
the timing of an additional bay,because there is still one
(55:14):
available in the plaza, but umsynapse hasn't even been open
for for a year yet.
Speaker 2 (55:19):
So yeah, well, I am so grateful that you came today
and shared your story with meand with all of our listeners
who will hear it, so Iappreciate your time so much.
I think there's so many nuggetsof wisdom that people are going
to get from this conversation,so thank you so much, of course.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Thank you, and I'm always happy to come back.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.