How to make therapy feel like self-care (and why it keeps clients coming back)

What if your clinic felt more like a tea party than a therapy office? That's exactly where Andrea Valliere started with her clinic, Road to Hana. 

In this episode of Radio Front Desk, Denzil sits down with Andrea to explore how looking beyond healthcare to hospitality, design, and even brands like Disney and Bumble helped her reimagine what a clinic could be. With little luxuries like seasonal drink menus and cozy blankets, Andrea explains how she thinks like a host (not a practitioner), and why creating comfort and delight can be just as healing as the therapy itself.

What You’ll Learn

• How to design a therapy or wellness space that supports neurodivergent and anxious clients
• What clinic owners can learn from Disney’s attention to detail and Bumble’s culture of care
• Why designing from the client’s perspective transforms experience and retention
•  How small hospitality touches like tea, textures, and colour can help you stand out

Guest Bio

Andrea is the founder of Road to Hana, and the CEO of R2H Holdings Inc. She also hosts a YouTube series featuring celebrity interviews on mental health and coined the term “Pink Collar” to describe an employee-centered corporation built from women’s perspectives. Passionate about social impact and mental wellness, Andrea continues to disrupt her industry.

Resources mentioned

• Road to Hana - website
• Road to Hana - Instagram
• Andrea’s Playbook
• Bob Iger - The Walt Disney Company
• Whitney Wolfe Herd - Bumble
• Jason Oppenheim - The Oppenheim Group

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Jane’s Google Calendar Sync keeps everything in one place, helping you build the kind of balance Andrea talked about: thoughtful, intentional, and designed for real humans.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Oh, people get shocked when they see the drink
menu.
Cause they and they go like, wasthis for me?
And it's like, yeah, oh my gosh,of course.
I think that is when you seepeople's eyes light up.
When you see someone's bodylanguage, like their shoulders
go down a bit and they exhale,you're like, okay, they're
starting to relax a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
Welcome back to Radio Front Dusk by Jane App.
I'm your host, Denzel Ford.
When you think of therapy, youprobably don't think luxury.
But that's exactly where AndreaValiere started.
At her Vancouver Clinic, Road toHANA, you'll find delicious
seasonal drinks, rich designchoices, and even dog-friendly

(00:40):
furniture.
Every detail is intentional andmeant to make therapy feel less
clinical and more likeself-care.
Andrea's ideas came fromunexpected places.
She looked beyond healthcare toindustries like design,
hospitality, and corporateleadership, borrowing lessons
from CEOs and brands like Disneyand Bumble to build a business

(01:01):
strategy that sets her clinicapart.
In this episode, we talk abouthow borrowing from these other
industries can help any clinicrethink the way it serves,
leads, and grows.
Let's get into it.
Andrea, welcome to Radio FrontDesk.
I'm so glad that you're heretoday.

(01:21):
How are you?

SPEAKER_02 (01:22):
Very well, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 (01:24):
And how are you today?

SPEAKER_01 (01:25):
I am so excited for probably 800 reasons to get into
your story today.
Wow.
But one reason is that you'renot a practitioner, but you have
a very creative way ofreimagining a clinic business
and what a clinic can look likeand how it can operate.
From what I'm understanding,you're pulling inspiration from

(01:47):
really unexpected places likeart, literature, and CEOs from
other industries, including onefrom a dating app.
So let's start there.
You could have built a businessin any industry, but you chose a
mental health clinic.
Why did you choose that?

SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
I actually did my first year of university, shout
out VIU, dropped out.
Best thing that ever happened tome.
I did it in psychology because Ithought I maybe wanted to be
maybe a psychologist, maybe acounselor.
The more I delved into it, Ithought, okay, definitely
counselor.
And then I thought, I'm gonna beterrible at this.

(02:27):
I'm probably gonna do more harmthan good.
So I, for like the safety ofsociety, should remove myself
from this career path.
Um, and then I always kind ofhad this void of like, I just
want to improve Vancouver'smental health, but how can I
contribute if I'm not acounselor?
And then, okay, what am I goodat?
And what do I love?
And I think the answer isactually tea parties.

(02:50):
That's my favorite thing, and Ithink I'm really good at it.
I love hosting.
And then it dawned on me thatthat is totally a job where it
contributes to mental health aswell, is being the host of the
space for clinical counseling.
Um yeah, and it's just like ifyou are the janitor in a
hospital, you are just asintegral to brain surgery and a

(03:12):
heart transplant as the surgeonbecause like you are so
responsible for the space.
Yeah.
So the counselors a hundredpercent, they're all my staff,
they're heroes.
They come in and they save livesevery day.
But I do feel very fulfilledbeing the host of the space as
well.

SPEAKER_01 (03:29):
I love the imagery there of like hosting tea
parties.
I love that so much.
Yeah.
Do you think that they're thatnot being a practitioner has
advantages in business?
Oh, a hundred percent.
Yeah.
Could you talk about those alittle bit?

SPEAKER_02 (03:42):
Oh, yeah.
It's all industries.
Like, do you want to create aproduct from the eye of the
consumer or the eye of theperson creating the product?
Do you want an office that suitsthe therapist or suits the
client?
Obviously, you can do thingsthat make it easier for the
therapists and the office teamand the marketing team, and and
you can kind of go through thechain and make it easier for the

(04:04):
staff, of course.
But at the end of the day, likewhen you hire amazing staff,
they're really adaptable.
The client might not be, andthey shouldn't have to adapt to
you.
It should be really tailored forthem.
So if I'm coming in for just asan example, like I've always
struggled with anxiety.
And so when, and I've alwaysbeen a consumer of counseling.

(04:24):
So when I sit down on a couch,one of the first things I notice
is like, can I rub the couch fortexture?
Is that gonna be like forgrounding or or like what kind
of textures can I touch?
And so in our office, like withthat lens, everything like we
are never far away from threedifferent textures when you sit
down.
Right.
Yeah, and that's just becauseit's the eye of the consumer.

SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
Yeah, interesting.
Back to the texture thing.
I mean, a lot of your decisionsare science-backed.
Yes.
So, what is that attention totexture, furniture, colors
change about the experience forthe people that come in for
treatment in your clinic?

SPEAKER_02 (05:01):
Oh, I mean, it has loads of benefits, especially if
you're neurodivergent, havingdifferent colors, like
contrasting.
That's where like talking tosomebody who specializes in
neurology is going to be reallyhelpful.
We kind of see a lot of clinicalcounseling practices are just
mirrors of the ones before them.
And often based on this uh like1970s Swedish model of that like

(05:25):
ultra-soothing, like oceansounds, like gray walls, and
like that kind of tone, and howthat under stimulation isn't
necessarily effective foreveryone.
We just have so much moreupdated research that proves
that that's not the best method.
So, why are we still using it?

SPEAKER_01 (05:44):
Yeah, I love that.
And so your space is very nottypical then.
It's bright, playful.
I hear it's dog friendly.
You have snacks and drinks.
What is the story behindcreating all of that?

SPEAKER_02 (05:58):
The snacks and drinks and blankies, we have
like chilled towels in thesummer and stuff like that.
Um, that's just like basichosting a tea party etiquette.
So you want to make sure yourguests come in and like we have
like really fun drinks on themenu.
And there is like some sciencebehind it there because often if
you're a little emotional, likeyour blood sugar is gonna drop.

(06:20):
So we specifically have somesweet drinks on there to combat
that.
It's also just comfortable.
Like, you know, if I'm having abad day, like maybe I just even
want to hold a really bougie teaor like a pumpkin spice latte
because that makes me feel alittle bit more comfort.
That's just like having ablankie, just like having kind

(06:41):
of any anything that feels likea little bit of a luxury is
gonna make you feel valued.

SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
Yeah.
I really love the model of thetea party you keep bringing back
up.
Yeah.
There's a there's a playfulnessto that too, where it's not just
it's making people feelcomfortable, but it's also like
lightening the vibe a little bitwhen sometimes these especially
in in mental health treatments,it's it's a little more serious.

SPEAKER_02 (07:06):
Oh, people get shocked when they see the drink
menu because they and they golike, Oh, is this for me?
And it's like, yeah, oh my gosh,of course.
Like, I think that is when yousee people's eyes light up.
Sometimes we want to make surethey're feeling comfortable when
they when they come in, and likewhen you see someone's body
language, like their shouldersgo down a bit and they exhale,
you're like, okay, they'restarting to relax a little bit.

(07:28):
We know they're in a good spotand a bit more open when they
sit down and they reach for ourBarbie book.
Because we have the on themiddle of the coffee table is
the Barbie World Tour.
Everything that Margot Robbiewore on the Barbie World tour,
it like fits perfectly in theroom.
It's this like hot pink book.
And so it's kind of when theyrelax enough to pick up the
book, then we go, okay, they'reready.

(07:50):
Interesting.
Yeah.
And what is the drink menu?
Oh gosh, there's like 10 or 12drinks of like uh like a
hazelnut latte or like an icedpistachio latte.
All the teas are like peachbellini tea or different flavors
of La Croix.
Um gosh, and Jesse, what aresome drinks we have?

unknown (08:12):
Lemonades.

SPEAKER_02 (08:13):
Oh yeah, we do like rose lemonades and we put dried
roses on top, like just to makeit feel Oh, I love that.
Yeah.
Disney is a good example ofthis, is any product that you
get in Disneyland, it just lookslike so, so much thought went
into it, even if it's just adrink.
And so we were like, okay,that's one thing I borrow from
that company is like, how can wemake it a little magical?

(08:34):
So we we called the rosebudsPixie Dusts, like, put some
pixie dust on top.

SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Amazing.
Well, let's talk about Bob Igerthen, and let's get into a
little bit more of how that hasinfluenced what you're thinking
here and the decisions that youmake.

SPEAKER_02 (08:52):
One way he kind of inspires our company is product
control, like every single thingthat goes out.
If we're gonna put our name onit, it's gotta be perfect and
it's gotta be kind of inspireand have have that signature
like pixie dust, if you will.
Because yeah, no company does itlike like the Walt Disney
company, but he's also a reallygood advocate for sharing your

(09:14):
mental health as a leader withyour staff because he he talks
about openly how he's had panicattacks at work, where it it's
quite similar to a heart attack.
And so they always have the likestaff doctor come in and and he
always shares with his staff,like, you know what, I was
incredibly anxious, I had apanic attack.

(09:35):
And just in sharing that withyour staff, like it gives them
that reminder of, you know what,we all gotta take time off, we
have to look after our health.
If I have a panic attack atwork, I know I'm gonna be fine.
I'm not gonna be ridiculed, orthat's not gonna be held against
me later.
It all starts at the top, right?
So him being very vulnerable andsharing that with his staff, I

(09:57):
think makes everything runbetter.
And it just has this amazingtrickle-down effect with the
company.

SPEAKER_01 (10:03):
What I found on my team is sometimes it actually
allows us to identify thingsthat are going on that we
wouldn't have noticed before.
If you're not being that kind ofopen, they're not quite as open
with you.
And then, you know, maybe it'slike a really stressful time and
you didn't realize it.
And sometimes that that sharingback and forth of like what are
we actually experiencingtogether allows you to come to

(10:23):
better understanding what'sgoing on with the business.
I think that's what it's like.

SPEAKER_02 (10:26):
Oh, totally.
Because if all of a sudden a lotof your staff are sick, for
example, yeah, am I overworkingthem?
Like, you know, it allows you toreevaluate things for sure.
And but if nobody talks about itand they just oh, power through
it, then you're not gonna bemade aware of these problems, or
they're gonna feel like theycan't share.
So yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
Yeah.
Hey there, Christina here.
Just a quick moment to sharethat this episode is brought to
you by Jane.
We know how much heart you putinto building a practice you're
proud of, and that's why we'rehere.
To make things like scheduling,charting, and payments run a
little smoother.
If you'd like to take a peek,head to jane.app forward slash
pricing.
Because we love a good bonus,don't forget to use the code

(11:06):
RadioFrontdesk for a one-monthgrace period.
Okay, I'll keep it short andsweet.
Back to the episode.

SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
So let's talk about Whitney Wolf Heard.
I believe her last name isHeard.
So she's the founder CEO ofBumble and also co-founder of
Tinder.
Yep.
How have you found inspirationfrom her story?

SPEAKER_02 (11:26):
Oh gosh, many, many ways.
But I think her triumph when sheleft Tinder and or was pushed
out, and her fight back and herresilience with her story there,
I find incredibly inspiring.
Um, and then just makingsomething from the female lens
in a male-dominated field, herdrive to be like, okay, how can

(11:48):
we make this a bit safer forwomen?
And that was the whole mission.
So I think that should always bein every company's mission.
How can we make this a saferspace for women?

SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
Do you use those kind of stories to create
policies around this sort ofthing?

SPEAKER_02 (12:00):
Yeah, so we, you know, for as an example for
parents, like one thing thatcame up recently was we have uh
a mom, for example, on our staffthat struggles to sometimes get
ready for Zoom meetings.
Like when I say ready, likeshe's got kids vomit on her, and
she's like been parenting in themorning, and so she's not like

(12:23):
physically ready to hop onto aZoom.
She's like, I need to change, Ineed to shower, I need to do
this.
And that eats up, like, youknow, it's like 45 minutes to
get ready.

SPEAKER_03 (12:31):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (12:32):
If you're lucky.
And we were like, you know what?
Let's just make a new policy.
If you show up in your pajamas,that's fine.
If you show up with kid vomit onyou, that's fine.
If your kid is screaming in thebackground, we're gonna look the
other way.
So now there's no expectationfor how you show up to our Zoom
meetings because like that justsaved you 45 minutes of like

(12:54):
being able to manage your dayand um be accommodating to
parents.

SPEAKER_01 (12:57):
Yeah, I love that.
Have you ever found that any ofthese sorts of ways of being
cause challenges?
Or have you ever had to managesomeone pushing too far with it?

SPEAKER_02 (13:10):
I think that it takes a long time sometimes for
people to rewire their brainbecause everything you've been
taught up until now is thatmentality of like, oh, the
coworker who gets the promotionis the one that shows up no
matter what.
Like, you got to be the first toarrive to practice and last to
leave.
Even if you're throwing up, youhave to stay on the court.
Like that mentality is That'sdefinitely where I come from.

SPEAKER_01 (13:32):
Like exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (13:34):
Yeah, it's like over 90% of CEOs have been on a
either college or high schoolteam, right?
Yeah, so when we have these thisnew work environment, sometimes
it takes people a minute to belike, I'm sick, so I'm not gonna
come to work.
And I'm like, correct.
Like it takes it does take sometime reinforcement.
Sometimes it takes them a coupletimes of seeing other people do

(13:58):
that and there's no badconsequences to be like, okay,
maybe I am actually licensed todo this.
Because there are companies thatsay this for optics, but their
work environment isn't actuallythat good, right?
And so you almost don't trustit.
Right.
Um, so I think you yeah, youhave to earn your employees'
trust for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
And then this last one is issuch a surprise.
Jason Oppenheim.
Oh, that short king, it shouldnot be a surprise.

SPEAKER_02 (14:24):
Tell me more, tell me more.
Oh my god, Jason, if you'relistening.
Um uh so he's the CEO of theOppenheim group, which I believe
they have the second most realestate deals in the Los Angeles
area.
So he and his brother foundedthis company.
And I think just by how manytimes he's almost gone bankrupt,

(14:47):
that alone I find inspiringbecause he's never given up and
he's like again tried to retainownership.
But he actually talks about hisown ego a lot, where people
often will push you, even ifit's not your own idea.
It's this push again to like bebig and numbers and grow, and
it's almost a flex to say, like,oh, well, we open this many

(15:09):
locations in this amount oftime.
That doesn't mean that was theright decision.
If anything, it makes you morevolatile.
So he was saying he wasconstantly pushed to expand the
team, do this.
And sometimes it's moreeffective to have a smaller
team.
Because when you get so big, allof a sudden you need a much
bigger C-suite.
You need so many more, like youroverhead completely changes.

(15:31):
So sometimes it is moreeffective to say like just stay
small.
If what you're doing is workingand you can just continue to
scale without creating morelocations or hiring a hundred
staff, um, especially whenpeople say, Oh, I just want to
get out of the small businessphase.
I hate being referred to as asmall business.
You know, technically he stillhas a small business, it's

(15:53):
classified as a small business,as per how many employees he
has.
But look, you know, he does halfa billion in real estate deals.
Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 (16:01):
Well, let's dive into marketing a little bit
more.
You have a lot, 85% of yourbusiness from social media.
What is resonating there?

SPEAKER_02 (16:10):
Well, our client base is so just over 75% are
between the ages of um 26 and34, and the most used um app and
where you most likely to getreferrals from, even including
healthcare, is Instagram.
So why not use that as your kindof tipping off point?

SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
Yeah, I love that.
I have for just from talking toenough clinic owners, it's very
heavily based on what you justsaid that who your client base
is is kind of where you gottastart building that strategy
from.

SPEAKER_02 (16:47):
Yeah, and that's again, all industries are like
that.
Like who's your demographic?
Okay, research them.
What do they see yet seen onthere?

SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
Instead of like what marketing should I be doing,
what marketing is thiscompetitor doing?
It's who's your clients andwhere are they?
And that's where you start.

SPEAKER_02 (17:03):
Yeah, I think a lot of people lean too heavily into
okay, what are my competitorsdoing?
Um, because again, they couldjust be mirroring the wrong
formula that's outdated.

SPEAKER_01 (17:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (17:12):
You're gonna be in a saturated market if you just do
everything they're doing.
But you should be known for yourown things and right.
Maybe don't look at everyone asa competitor, maybe look at them
as a companion.
Because if you really are sounique, you're doing something
that you can't get anywhereelse, then you're not really
gonna have any competitors.
Um, you know, you're more of adestination.
And it's you know, it's like thesame with restaurants.

(17:34):
Like there's many Michelin starrestaurants, but um a lot of
them, what is that one thing youcan only get there that's gonna
bring people through the door?
Then the other restaurantsaren't really your competitor.
You know, you can rely onyourself for your uniqueness or
the services or products thatyou're providing.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
So uh we haven't talked too much about your
playbook, but we will link theplaybook um online on our
website.
But one of the things you didsay is think like an outsider.
And I think that's kind ofrelated to what you're saying
right now.
Design services through youreyes of your client, not your
peers, and also create thesomething that's unique about
what you have.
So, what else could you sayabout that?

SPEAKER_02 (18:13):
I think a lot of people think to succeed in an
industry, you have to come fromthat industry.
Whether you're just a Nepo hirefrom a family that's like a
banking dynasty, so obviouslyyou're gonna work in banks, like
you you don't have to come froman industry, you don't have to
be educated on that industry informal education.
For example, you know, you don'thave to have studied psychology

(18:35):
or business to create asuccessful clinical counseling
practice.
I think, yeah, it's morefundamentals.
It's not necessarily like whereyou're kind of where your
background is from.
And I think the more removed youare from being, for example, a
practitioner, you're gonna beyour only view is as a consumer.

(18:57):
So you only have the consumerlens on at all times.
And so that allows you to designeverything for the consumer.

SPEAKER_01 (19:04):
Would you have any advice for people that are
practitioners in terms of how tokind of zoom out to a different
perspective?
Because there are a lot ofpeople listening to this that
are practitioners startingbusinesses.
So how could they create more ofa headspace like you have as a
business owner?
Do you think that's a goodthing?

SPEAKER_02 (19:21):
Oh, go be a client.
Go sign up for some um likegroup therapy events, like go,
go pretend you're and it's notpretending, like you actually
are gonna be a client and youare gonna get a lot out of that.
But yeah, um, go check out someother like clinical counseling
practices.
I'm sure almost all therapistslistening have a therapist.

(19:41):
A little ironic if you don't.
Um, so maybe you next time yougo into your therapist's office,
like sit down and like what areyou taking note of?
Like anyone can be a consumer.
Like, do you think the peopledesigning the Dyson Blow dryer
never tried out other blowdryers?
For me, that's it sounds verysimple, but I think it's always

(20:03):
overlooked for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (20:05):
Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01 (20:06):
I I wonder if you could articulate what the value
system is underneath everythingthat you're saying here today,
as you're looking around you,looking at what what is even
possible.
It's easy to look at falsesignals of what success looks
like.
Because you're saying somereally specific things, like you
know, really, really paying deepattention to the client

(20:29):
experience.
Like, what is a value systemunderneath that that is defining
success for you?

SPEAKER_02 (20:35):
Um, I define success as how safe do people feel in my
presence.
And I think that you cantranslate that to a clinical
counseling practice.
How safe do people feel whenthey go in the door?
If people feel incredibly safe,that's a successful clinic.
Now, obviously, you know, but uhyou can't pay rent with safety,

(21:00):
unfortunately.
So that doesn't mean that youroperation is gonna stay open
forever, even if you do you werereally successful at that.
I think if you stay open yourfirst year, I think that's a
huge success.
A quarter of businesses close inthe first year.
This industry is becoming, Iwouldn't say it's becoming more
competitive because there's moreum consumer traction each year

(21:21):
to keep up with the influx ofcounselors entering the space.
So I still think it's a reallygood industry to invest in right
now.
Um but yeah, I think success isalso celebrating those, they
sound like little wins, like oh,staying open a year.

SPEAKER_03 (21:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
You already beat out like 25% of people wouldn't be
in that boat.
So you're already doing a reallygood job.
50%, I believe, close in thefirst five years.
So if you can stay open thatlong, oh my gosh, you're killing
it.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (21:50):
Especially in, you know, in a location, these
businesses have a location, andyou know, you're you're helping
a client base over time.

SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
Yeah, I think almost every clinical counseling
practice like feels that senseof success immediately.
Like when you've helped yourfirst person, you're like, okay,
you almost get the sense oflike, oh my gosh, it was all
worth it.
I just helped one person.
But then you get those clientsthat you know drop one of these
lines like in an email orsomething, and they get a bit

(22:20):
more existential, and they say,I don't know if I'd be here
today if it wasn't for yourteam.
Those are the ones, and then I'mlike, I'm so successful.

SPEAKER_01 (22:32):
That's it for today's episode of Radio Front
Desk.
Huge thanks to Andrea forshowing us what happens when
creativity meets strategy, andwhen a therapy clinic dares to
look, feel, and operatedifferently.
If you want to learn more abouthow Andrea built a standout
clinic, you can check out herplaybook in our show notes.
Thanks for tuning in.

(22:52):
Catch you next time.