How to move through shame and self-doubt as a clinic owner

Every clinic owner faces a season where things don’t feel perfect. But why do so few talk about it?

In this episode of Radio Front Desk, Denzil sits down with psychotherapist and clinic owner Roxanne Francis to talk about what it’s really like to run a clinic when things don’t feel as perfect as they look. 

Roxanne opens up about facing shame, comparison, and the pressure to appear put-together as she navigated growing a business. But she also opens up about how she found her footing again.

What You’ll Learn:

• How to recognize and release the pressure to “have it all together” as a clinic owner
• Why shame and comparison thrive in silence, and how to bring them into the light
• What professional vulnerability looks like (and how to practice it safely)
• Why your relationship with money is emotional, and how to rebuild trust with it

Guest Bio

Roxanne Francis is an award-winning psychotherapist, registered social worker, leadership coach, consultant, and international speaker with over 15 years of experience helping people transform their lives. As Founder and CEO of Francis Psychotherapy & Consulting Services, she leads a group practice, coaches and supervises therapists, and advises organizations on mental health, DEI, racial trauma, burnout, and women’s issues. 

Resources mentioned

• Roxanne’s Playbook 
• Francis Psychotherapy on Instagram
• Francis Psychotherapy & Consulting Services
• Brene Brown

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
It just felt like the money was falling into a
hole somewhere, right?
The money wasn't moneying.
And I saw other clinic ownerswho were scaling, and I was
like, how are they doing thisstuff?
I actually said to her, I feelso small when I'm around them
because it just feels like theyhave it all together.
And she said, actually, I'lltell you this.

(00:22):
Can't tell you all theirdetails, but I can tell you that
they don't have it all together.

SPEAKER_03 (00:28):
Welcome back to Radio Front Desk by Jane App.
I'm your host, Denzel Ford.
When you run a small business,especially in healthcare,
there's often this quietpressure to make it look like
everything's going smoothly.
And yet, the truth is thatstruggle is a part of every
clinic owner's story.
My guest today is RoxanneFrancis, a psychotherapist,

(00:51):
speaker, and clinic owner whohelps health and wellness
professionals navigate both thebusiness and emotional sides of
care.
In this episode, Roxanne shareswhat it's really like to run a
business when things don't feelas perfect as they look.
We talk about the shame andcomparison that comes with
entrepreneurship, the momentsshe doubted herself during

(01:12):
financial uncertainty, and howshe finally found her footing
again.
Let's get into it.
Roxanne, welcome to Radio FrontDesk.
How are you today?

SPEAKER_01 (01:24):
I'm doing good.
Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26):
I'm so glad you're here.
Last time we saw each other, wewere in Palm Springs.
So now we're in Vancouver.
We're in Vancouver.
Very fun.
I'm really excited to dig inwith you on a very special and
maybe specific topic today.
What it means to be honest aboutstruggle as a clinic owner.
So let's start by naming theelephant in the room that when

(01:48):
you run a small business,there's a pressure to make it
look like everything is goingright and you have it together.
Yeah.
But the reality can be verydifferent.
Yes.
So could you start by letting usknow like what have you been
hearing?

SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
Um what I'm actually hearing is that people are
saying, people are falling intothat comparison trap, right?
So they're saying those otherpeople running those clinics
look like they have it doneperfectly, and I don't.
And so I feel like I'm failing,right?
They're like, they're sosuccessful, they're, you know,

(02:22):
running the show, they're doingall these fancy things, and I'm
not.
And I wonder what it is that I'mdoing wrong.
And it it lends to this sense ofshame in a way.

SPEAKER_03 (02:33):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Do you have any personalexperience like that you could
share like a time when you feltthat way as a clinic owner?

SPEAKER_01 (02:41):
Yeah, for sure.
Um, I think maybe in year two oryear three of my business, and
we were starting to scale, and Ifelt like I it just felt like
the money was falling into ahole somewhere, right?
The money wasn't moneying.
And I saw other clinic ownerswho were scaling, and I was

(03:02):
like, how are they doing thisstuff?
And I actually invested in afinancial strategist.
And so we were going through ourfinancial plan.
And so she showed me, she waslike, This is the hole, and we
this is how we can fix it.
And I was like, Oh my goodness.
Here I was thinking that I wassomehow like I didn't know what

(03:24):
I was doing or I was bad at thisor whatever.
And she goes, No, a lot ofpeople fall into this trap.
And I I actually said to her,you know, such and such person,
I feel so small when I'm aroundthem because it just feels like
they have it all together.
And she said, actually, I'lltell you this.
Can't tell you all of theirdetails, but I can tell you that
they don't have it all togetheron the, you know, behind the

(03:46):
scenes, right?
Right.
And so it really just is um, itwas a reminder to me that
everyone has their own issue orsituation and they just don't,
we don't lead with that, right?
And rightfully so.
There's some things you want tokeep private.
But because we only look at thethe the fun stuff or the the

(04:08):
social media highlight reel,even though we know it's a
highlight reel, we still look atwhat people choose to show us
and compare it to the nuts andbolts of what we've got going
on.
And it makes us feel like we'renot doing the right thing or
we're not good enough or we'rewe're we're too small, or you
know, yes, it's not a goodsituation.

SPEAKER_03 (04:29):
It's a very human topic as well.
You know, there's many thingsthat are equivalents to the
social media highlight real inlife, what car you drive, what
house you live in, those sortsof things don't always signal
that you do truly have ittogether.
Exactly.
So when you hired a financialadvisor, I'm curious to just dig
in real quick there.
Like how because if I may, notall financial advisors are super

(04:54):
great.
You kind of need to find onethat that, and I don't mean it
that way, but I mean you do needto find one that it fits what
you need.
Yes.
So could you just talk a bitabout how you found that person
and like what made you thinkthat was the right person for
you?
And I don't know, like I'm I amcurious a little about what you
paid for them since you'retalking about like losing money
a little bit, right?

SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
Yes.
When I started my business, whatI started in someone's group
practice, and then when we whenI, you know, we separated and I
went out on my own, um, I knewthat I needed help in terms of
attracting clients.
And so I worked with um amarketing coach for about we
worked on and off for about sixmonths.
And during that period of time,she helped me come up with logo

(05:38):
and colors and fonts and allthese things, right?
And in doing that, I got tobecome uh familiar with some of
her community.
She had a podcast and sheinterviewed this person, and I
was like, oh, this woman soundsreally smart and kind, right?
And she the topic was aboutmoney.
And I was listening to thepodcast, folding clothes, going,

(05:59):
oh, my money sucks, right?
But listening to her thinkingshe really knows what she's
doing.
And then as I, as business wenton, I would go out and meet
people.
And I eventually met her.
And she was so warm and kind.
And, you know, I would listen toher talk about money, and I
would listen to her talk abouther own journey, about when she

(06:22):
was pretending to have it alltogether, when her money was
really small, and how she had tocome to terms with her stuff and
how she was able to climb out ofthat.
And now she helps, you know,women-identified business owners
navigate their finances.
And so I started following heron social media.
I took, you know, some a couplefreebies.
You know, sometimes you have topick up free breadcrumbs until

(06:43):
you can actually afford a loafof bread.
So I kind of got to know herflow a little bit.
And so I just, I, I justmustered up some courage one
day.
And I reached out to her and Isaid, Hey, so I'm thinking, I
don't know, I don't know if youwant to work with me, but and
the interesting thing is thatshe was very excited that I

(07:06):
reached out to her.
She said, I've been payingattention to your business.
You're doing really greatthings.
And I said, Listen, I can't payyou this money all at once.
And she said, That's fine.
Let's work out a payment planthat works for you.
And when we first met, we sattogether for like a full day.
First, she sent me somepaperwork that I had to complete
about, you know, giving hernumbers so that she could look

(07:27):
it over.
And then we we met for the fullday, and she did some some deep,
what I would like to call deepwork.
I said to her, You're like mymoney therapist.
Because she sat me down and shewas like, Okay, so how do you
feel when you look at thesenumbers?
Yeah.
And I boohooed a little bit.
We put the embarrassment on thetable, and she's like, Roxanne,
you don't have anything to beashamed about, to be ashamed of.

(07:49):
This is just numbers, right?
This doesn't make you a badperson.
This doesn't make you anirresponsible person.
Let's just find the whole.
And we sat down together and weworked it out.
And then we sat down and we cameup with what she called a profit
plan.
And we, you know, she navigatedall the things, and this is what
this is what you do when youhave associates, and this is
what you do when you have, youknow, when you're opening up a

(08:10):
physical location.
And it was just super helpfuland it helped me recognize that
I was, I was actually on theright path.
I just needed some help.

SPEAKER_03 (08:20):
I love that you went into such a deep description
there.
One of our other episodes, Iinterview um a financial
therapist.
Oh wow.
There's so much about the topicof money that is emotional.
Yes.
So it's a nice thread.
Uh so also I want to talk aboutsomething you've mentioned a
couple of times, shame.
Yeah, yes.
So, in your playbook that youmade for us that we post on our

(08:41):
digital component of front desk,you mentioned, I think something
Brene Brown said that shame islike mold.
Could you talk about that for alittle bit?

SPEAKER_01 (08:49):
Yes, yes, yes.
So um shame is this thing whereit almost takes, we take on this
thing as though we we havebecome this bad person, right?
When I talk with clients, I saythe difference between guilt and
shame is that guilt says I'vedone a bad thing, shame says I
am a bad person.
And so we hold on to itpersonally.

(09:09):
But the other thing about shameis that we hide it.
And the more we hide it, themore devastating it can seem.
And the longer we hide it, themore devastating it can seem.
And Renee Brown says, shame islike mold, it grows in the dark.
And so you have to shine a lighton it, you have to um speak it
openly.
You have to be careful about whoyou speak it to, right?

(09:30):
People have to earn that spaceof sharing.

SPEAKER_03 (09:33):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
But when you share in a safe space, it loses its
power, right?
Someone else helps you hold it,you shine a light on it, it gets
smaller, it seems manageable,and you actually get support,
right?
And so the thing that you findyourself being ashamed of,
whether you find a therapist ora best friend or someone in your
family, it's really important tofind a safe space, someone who

(09:57):
you who cares about you, whereyou can put this on the table
and say, here's a thing thatI've been dealing with, and it
loses its power, its hold onyou.

SPEAKER_03 (10:06):
So the takeaway is lots of people are out there
feeling alone and like theyaren't doing the right thing,
but nobody's alone in doingthat.

SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
No, nobody's alone.
Nobody's alone.

SPEAKER_02 (10:19):
Hey there, Christina here.
Just a quick moment to sharethat this episode is brought to
you by Jane.
We know how much heart you putinto building a practice you're
proud of, and that's why we'rehere.
To make things like scheduling,charting, and payments run a
little smoother.
If you'd like to take a peek,head to jane.app forward slash
pricing.
Because we love a good bonus,don't forget to use the code
RadioFrontdesk for a one-monthgrace period.

(10:41):
Okay, I'll keep it short andsweet.
Back to the episode.

SPEAKER_03 (10:45):
Okay, let's talk about honesty and what you've
been mentioning about likespeaking your truth and finding
appropriate people to do thatwith.
Uh, because when you're in aleadership position or as a
business owner, a solopreneur,you you were saying you can't
just say it to anyone.
That's not a good idea.
So let's talk about that alittle bit.
And I think specifically, whatdoes professional vulnerability

(11:09):
look like?

SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
Yes, professional vulnerability, first of all, you
have to be careful about whereyou share.
Social media is a veryinteresting place.
And a coach said to me a longtime, never put anything on
social media that you wouldn'twant on a billboard by the
highway, right?
Just be very careful about that.
Um, be careful about sharingabout your family, um, you know,
finances, some things you wantto keep closer to your chest.

(11:34):
Um, but it's important to findanother professional that um is
either on the same level as youor maybe a couple of steps ahead
of you who is willing to sitwith you and offer even just the
slightest bit of mentorship orfind a coach that may be a paid
position or voluntary, but findcommunity, right?

(11:55):
So maybe on a retreat or um anetworking event where you can
meet like-minded individuals.
Maybe you meet once a month,every Wednesday over lunch, or
something, and we share some ofthe same struggles that we're
dealing with because when youare alone, it does, it plays a
number on you, right?
It's really important torecognize because you might find
out that the thing that I'mstruggling with, the thing that

(12:15):
I'm beating myself for myself upfor, is actually something that
business owners all experiencein year three.
And it's year three for me.
So it's not just me, this isjust the path.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (12:27):
Yeah.
Interesting.
I love that.
I've had many mentors over thecourse of my life.
I've I've run through thisprocess many times.
My question for you is what doyou do if you do encounter
somebody that isn't the rightfit or can't hold what you have
to share, or doesn't prove to betrustworthy, or you know, they

(12:51):
just they they're notinterested.
So you've started to open up.
What would you say if someoneencounters something like that?

SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
Um I use a lot of analogies all the time.
And as you were you were justsaying that, the thought that I
had was going shopping.
And you pick out a pair of jeansfrom the rack and you go into
the dressing room and you put iton, or you try to put it on,
yeah, and it won't get past yourhips, right?
A lot of people would be like,That's it.
I hate shopping.
I'm never coming back to thisstore.

(13:20):
But you need the jeans.
So you say to the sales girl,can you go up two sizes?
You throw it over the door andyou say, Can you get me another
size?
Right.
Um, the same is true for peoplewho are looking for a therapist.
You might, you know, meet withsomeone, you open up the first
session, and it doesn't reallyquite fit, you feel
uncomfortable.
Instead of leaving, saying thistherapy is for birds, you say, I

(13:41):
need to find someone else.
And so it's the challenging partis that you've you've you've uh
brought your vulnerable self tothe forefront and you've opened
up and you've shared, and thisperson can't hold it, and you're
like, oh, this was hard, and nowI'm disappointed.
Um, first of all, I just want tocommend anyone who's done this.
I just want to commend them forliterally bringing their

(14:02):
vulnerable self to the front ofthe room, right?
Now instead of packing thatperson away and saying you're
never coming out again, you'regonna do your due diligence and
see if there's anyone else whomight have better capacity.
And, you know, ask around.
Do you know anyone who's areally good mentor?
Have you worked with someonebefore?
What do you think aboutso-and-so?
Um, and if you're looking towork with someone, especially if

(14:24):
this is someone that you have togo out of pocket for, ask them
for references.
It's totally fine to say, whohave you worked with before?
Is it okay if I reach out tothem to see what they had to
say?
Right?
Because this is this is deepwork.
So it it's worth the the um it'sworth looking into.

SPEAKER_03 (14:40):
So in your playbook, another line from it is other
parts of my business I feelembarrassed about.
Can you walk us through what youcan learn from going through
that exercise?

SPEAKER_01 (14:50):
Yeah, because sometimes we have this, we have
this feeling inside, thisnegative feeling, and we can't
quite put our finger on it,right?
And sometimes we show up inspaces and we talk and we laugh,
and we think to ourselves, well,I'm not gonna tell anybody about
that thing.
I'm gonna keep that part asecret.
And it goes back to the pieceabout shame is like mold, it

(15:13):
grows in the dark, right?
So when you ask yourself, okay,what is that thing that I don't
really want to tell anybodyabout?
It's like me when I was workingwith a financial strategist,
right?
I didn't want to tell anybodythat I was couldn't manage
financially.
It felt like you're a badbusiness owner, right?
Um, you don't know how to count.
What's wrong with you?

(15:34):
Right?
And so I was really embarrassedabout that.
And so the thing that you'reembarrassed about is a thing
that needs to be addressed,right?
And but the more you hide it,the more we're not addressing
it, and the worse it's gonnaget, and the worse you're gonna
feel.
So really check in and like giveyourself like this hand-to-heart
moment and say, okay, let mejust do some introspection.

(15:57):
What is this thing that I keepwanting to hide from everybody?
Okay, who can I trust with thisinformation?
Because you have to get it foryou have to get it outside of
you.
You have to speak to it.
There is a uh a neuroscientist,uh Dan Siegel, who says you have
to name it in order to tame it,right?
If you don't, if you can't, ifyou can't identify what it is

(16:20):
and speak to it, then we can'tfix it, right?
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (16:24):
To close out, I want to bring us back to something
very human.
Yes.
There are people out there rightnow who are actually in a rough
season, maybe feeling shame,isolation, or like they're
falling short.
What would you say to one ofthose people?

SPEAKER_01 (16:39):
I would say that you are, first of all, you are doing
the thing.
The only reason that yourecognize that you're falling
short is because you're actuallyactively out here doing the
thing.
Right?
So, first of all, hats off, allthe applause for being out here

(16:59):
doing the thing.
Because if you weren't trying,you wouldn't have had any reason
to fall short.
Um, second of all, understandthat business is hard.
Many of us went to school forwhatever discipline it is that
we're practicing, and they nevertaught us how to run a business.
So you are literally, how dothey, what did they say?
Building the plane as you'reflying it, right?

(17:20):
Like and loving it.
And so you're gonna havehiccups, right?
You're not a bad person.
You're not an incompetentperson.
Reach out for some support.
There's no shame in asking forhelp, right?
Um, you'd be surprised at howmuch your business can take off
once you have the right support.

SPEAKER_03 (17:38):
That's it for today's episode of Radio Front
Us.
Huge thanks to Roxanne Francisfor reminding us that honesty
and vulnerability aren'tweaknesses.
They're a part of what makesgreat leaders and strong
business owners.
If you'd like to explore more ofRoxanne's insights on navigating
shame, comparison, and findingsupport as a clinic owner, you

(17:58):
can find her playbook linked inour show notes.
Thanks for tuning in, and we'llsee you next time.