September 27, 2025 • 54 mins
Ever wondered how retail giants are reshaping the commerce landscape while battling for your attention? In this engaging episode of Retail Media Vibes, we welcome Brad Godwin, the embodiment of positive energy and human connection in the tech-driven world of retail media.
Brad brings his refreshing perspective as a seasoned professional with Breaktime Media, highlighting why human relationships remain central even as retail media spending skyrockets to a projected $61.2 billion by 2025. The conversation explores the critical talent gap facing the industry, with Brad emphasizing that successful teams need diversity of thought: "What if you have some folks that are deep retail experts, you marry those with deep media experts, you come into some brand storytelling, and then you have folks that understand the mechanics of sales?"
The discussion takes a fascinating turn examining Connected TV's explosive growth in retail media – expanding 45.5% this year and projected to capture one in five CTV US ad dollars by 2027. Brad offers valuable insights on finding the balance between awareness and conversion, questioning whether tactics like QR codes actually drive meaningful action: "The incentive has to overcome the friction," he notes, suggesting that strong promotions or sweepstakes might be necessary to motivate viewers.
Perhaps most compelling is the analysis of how Walmart and Amazon are increasingly encroaching on each other's territories – Amazon expanding same-day grocery delivery while Walmart grows its marketplace and ad business. This competitive dynamic creates benefits through innovation, with Brad observing: "There's a bigger thing at play called the love economy... for retailers, there is your favorite. I'm in a pinch, what am I going to go to? They're trying to earn the shopper's trust through brand love."
Whether you're a retail professional, brand marketer, or simply curious about how commerce is evolving, this episode delivers valuable insights wrapped in an authentic, vibrant conversation. Subscribe to Retail Media Vibes for more thought-provoking discussions on the future of retail and commerce!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
What's up party people?
Bv here and welcome to episode2 of the retail media vibes
podcast, a doing business inBentonville podcast.
I am recording retail mediavibes at podcast video studios
here in Rogers, Arkansas.
So if you ever want to createyour own podcast and have a
professional place to go and gethooked up, I encourage you to
(00:30):
visit Podcast Videos here inRogers Arkansas.
So before we get into the showtoday, just a little disclaimer
All of the opinions expressedare my own and are not
necessarily reflective of past,present or future employers.
And with that on with the show,All right, today we're going to
(00:50):
start off with Vibe Chat, wherewe get a chance to meet our
guest today and we get to know agood friend of mine, longtime
friend, Brad Godwin.
Hi, Brad, How's it going?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Man, it's Friday and it's a beautiful day in
Northwest Arkansas, so I got myhoodie on because it's
fall-esque.
Yes, it is, and I got a goodcoffee and all is good.
We're going to talk some retailmedia today.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, we are.
Yeah, I think it's perfect tohave you on the show.
I think Brad is Mr Vibes Rand.
You are like you are the.
When I think of vibes, I thinkof Brad, and I'm sure those that
know you probably feel the sameway.
So obviously we want to get toknow a little bit about you for
the audience and those that aretuning in.
So tell me a little bit aboutBrad.
(01:32):
What would you say you do?
Oh, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I always like to kind of do an inverse answer OK,
because maybe that's part of theBrad vibes that I like to bring
to the world, because maybethat's part of the Brad vibes
that I like to bring to theworld.
But I get to be a husband,first and foremost to my wife
Leslie, who is a just rockingentrepreneur here in northwest
Arkansas, helping emergingbrands get into Walmart and
started her company GodwinRetail Group.
(01:58):
I get to be a dad.
I've got four daughters, threehere on earth, one in heaven.
My oldest daughter's name's Diaand she's a seventh grader, and
then I have a fourth gradernamed Aria and a four and a half
year old named Evie.
So those are my primary jobs ofwhat I get to do.
And then, vocationally, I getto come alongside a company
(02:21):
called Break Time Media, basedout of Boston, massachusetts,
boston.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I love Boston.
I know You're a Boston guy.
You're a Boston guy.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Shout out to my homies up in Boston, but we get
to help build really coolinteractive digital experiences
for brands that drive commerce,and so I get to drink a lot of
coffee with folks in NorthwestArkansas.
You have one here, I have onehere from Heroes.
We get to talk life and I thinkthat's what's so cool about
(02:50):
Northwest Arkansas is being inthis space and being in this
industry and working in tech,quite frankly, sometimes can
feel less than human, right, youknow, because technology we'll
talk a little bit about some ofthat today, but I think what's
so cool and why I've stayed inthe industry as long as I have,
and I think how we met and ourfriendship that's budded has
been because of human connectionand getting to hear people not
(03:13):
just, oh, what do you do for aliving, but who are you Right,
what are you about?
Because we're all more thanjust what our jobs are or our
titles are, and so, yeah, that'sa little bit about who I am.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you.
You hit on some really greatpoints there and I think that
was you know.
When I talk about Mr Vibes,like for you, it's really about
the humanity that you bring tothe work and to your
relationships and to those youlead and coach and manage and
and so forth, and how importantthat is in today's day and age,
(03:44):
cause I think sometimes we gettoo focused on outcomes and
process and numbers and dollarsand all that stuff and that's
all important.
Of course, we all want to besuccessful in the jobs that we
do and those things areindicators of how things are
going, but you still need tohave that human connection and I
think that's an important part.
I think you do a great job ofbringing that and obviously
(04:04):
that's a part that I've lovedabout you when, um, when we've
gotten to know each other overthe over the years.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So it's interesting.
You said that and I justsomething just came to mind this
was not on script, but I'lljust say it anyway is I was
talking to a guy who just movedhere to the United States from
Argentina and I said what's thebiggest difference from
Argentina to the United States?
He lives here in Bentonvilleand he's like oh easy.
And I was like okay, what is it?
(04:31):
And he's like, oh, you guysjust ask wrong questions.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Wrong questions.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Huh, well, give me an example.
He said well, when you meetsomeone in Argentina, whether
you're at a bar or a restaurantor just out in public, you ask
what do you do for fun In theUnited States?
You ask, what do you do for aliving, you know?
And so I think it's something.
It's a good reminder in thatconversation of, yes, I'm so
(04:57):
grateful for this industry inthis space because it's been
able to provide, you know, uh,vocationally for us.
But I think what's even cooleris what do we do for fun?
And getting to see sneakers andus to be able to talk about
other things beyond just that,and I think that's what makes
the work so meaningful andthat's, quite frankly, why great
(05:17):
work gets done.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, I think a lot
of us.
I think our identity is basedupon what we do for a living.
I mean, I moved here from DFWalmost almost 13 years ago and
you know I had nobody here,right, and so I moved here.
All of my friends you know thepeople I have close to me that
(05:39):
aren't my family are because ofmy job, right, and you know
people I've met and I met you asa partner in the work and you
got to know you better andthere's so many people that you
know I have really greatrelationships with and I love.
So much is based upon my work.
So, in a way, for me, my workis my identity and what I do,
and because it's been so much ofwhat you know who I am today,
(06:06):
so it's really really cool,really really cool.
So let's, let's, let's just onelittle icebreaker question.
I have several, but I thinkwe're going a little long, so it
was one, a one littleicebreaker question.
So what it?
What?
What is your most recente-commerce purchase?
What was the most recent thingyou thought you purchased?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
online.
Well, this is like real-worldconfessions, because I don't
think my wife knows about thispurchase yet, because it
happened last night.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Hopefully it's not like a gift.
No, not a gift.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I recently stayed at an Airbnb, and at the Airbnb
that I stayed at they had thisreally cool French press and
electric kettle that you can setfor coffee tea and it heats the
water to the exact temperature.
So I ordered both of those lastnight.
Hopefully they should bearriving tomorrow.
So, surprise babe, we got somenew coffee equipment coming.
(06:53):
But yeah, that was my lateste-commerce purchase yeah that's.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I mean, it's so funny how you get inspired to buy a
certain item and then now,obviously, with you know, the
ubiquity of to be able topurchase something at any time
for any reason just makes thatprocess so frictionless right at
this stage.
For me it actually was.
So Nike you know, you and Iboth have an affection for Nike
(07:23):
very heavily.
They just released and did apartnership with Lego and they
just released some Lego, like aLego kit with Nike dunks and the
Lego figure is dunking the ball, and so I kind of got wrapped
up in the moment, got wrapped upin the hype.
You know, what was funny too ison my last episode we were
talking about this whole trendaround cadult right, adults that
(07:47):
are buying things that wouldnormally be for kids and I was
like, hey, I just fell into thatcohort immediately with the
Lego and Nike thing.
So I'm looking forward toputting it together and putting
it in my office.
So, all right, so that's what Ipurchased man.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
So, all right, so that's what I purchased, man,
and it's interesting, thismerger as a parent, yeah,
because you know you have kidsas well.
I think it's not just about youknow.
Yes, there's the inner childthat, like, loves those playful
things, but there's also lookingfor, again, going back to that
human connection, ways that Ican connect with my kids.
Oh, yeah, yeah, and not go.
(08:24):
Hey, you got to do the things Icare about, right, but oh my
gosh, you really care about this.
I really care about this, likeMario Brothers, right, and that
movie came out.
I'm like this is hitting at mychildhood, yeah, and y'all now
love Mario Brothers movie.
This is a coming togethermoment, right, this is a coming
together moment and anopportunity, not just selfishly
(08:44):
for me to be like I love SuperMario Brothers, but to be able
to engage with my family in ameaningful way too, which is
just awesome.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, it definitely brings the family together and
there's obviously that feelingof nostalgia is a very powerful
feeling, and the ability tobring your family together
around some of these IP is super, super cool.
For me, when my kids were young, it was Star Wars.
Star Wars is really whatbrought us together, and
Spider-Man, you know, and soMarvel, and obviously it's all
(09:14):
expanded from there.
So, yeah, really cool, reallycool.
All right, let's move on now tolet's talk about some topics.
Right, let's go.
I think you and I could justchit-chat all day, but that's
not what everybody wants to hear, right?
They want us to talk about somethings that might be going on
in the retail space, in themedia space.
So let's do a couple of quickhits right out the gate, right?
(09:37):
So this week, taco Bell.
All right, taco Bell.
I know how much you love TacoBell.
Taco Bell is rethinking usingAI in the drive-thru and this
was obviously related to somethings that happened.
I think some guy ordered like18,000 waters from you.
(09:58):
Know, it's like okay, maybe AIwasn't the right solution there.
I think sometimes we'rethrowing AI at the wrong things
to solve it.
I'm not saying whether or notthat's the right thing or not,
but what was your gut reactionwhen you heard that?
To me it was like duh, not asurprise.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, I think I had two visceral reactions.
One is what in the world arethey thinking?
And two is I know exactly whatthey're thinking.
Taco Bell just wants to betalked about, and they have been
the leader in QSR for decadesin doing things that were crazy.
Not necessarily for thosethings themselves to be the
(10:39):
profitability driver of thebusiness, but guess what?
It's called earned media.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And guess what we're talking about it?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
on a podcast because of that and so I think so much
of what they do and I think thefolks I knew, some folks that
worked in brand there they werelooking for shock value and I
think they've really re-imaginedthat brand over the last decade
into a one that Gen Z resonateswith.
And so whether things work ordon't work from a functional,
(11:11):
quantitative.
Oh my gosh, this doesn't makeany sense.
I think some of it I don't wantto say it's a PR stunt,
necessarily, but I don't thinkthey hate it.
Right, it got picked up andtalked about and went viral.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And I think, think you know different companies are
going to try ai in differentways and sometimes it's going to
work out.
Sometimes, and, to be fair,taco bell is not the only quick
qsr that uses ai in thedrive-thru, right?
So it's just they're rethinkingit a little bit, totally so.
Another quick hit is so the UKretailer, tesco.
(11:46):
They just launched an avocadotester.
Like I love avocado, I eatavocado a lot, but this avocado
tester is a handheld scannerthat will scan your avocado and
tell you how ripe it is.
So obviously that's a littlebit closer to the retail that we
(12:06):
know and love on a daily basis.
For sure.
But, like you know, is thatjust technology For technology's
sake.
Do you see that reallysomething that I think more
stores should adopt?
I mean, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, I actually was having lunch with a merchant at
Walmart yesterday and we weretalking about not just this
specific topic of the avocadobut like what are pain points
for shoppers that might not comeout like just in data, right
Right, and you have to kind ofwatch and start to talk and you
know one of the things I thinkfor me, I love making homemade
(12:42):
guacamole.
Yeah, for me, I love makinghomemade guacamole.
There's nothing worse thangetting avocados and cutting
into them and being like theseare garbage.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, can't use it.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Now I got so stoked my wife specifically got stoked
for fresh table-side guac athome to know we're not having it
, or if we try to have it, ittastes like garbage, right, and
so I think that's really meetinga need.
I don't think it's tech fortech sake.
I think it's going hey, there'sa human problem, yeah, of I
can't see inside this thing,yeah, and I don't know what's
(13:12):
right and there's a lot of like.
You can do research of like you.
You knock on it you look for acertain color, you squeeze it
but I can say with greatcertainty, as I've tried all of
them them are reliable, right,and so if this is a new reliable
and I think the key is is itscalable, like what's the cost?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
of having that at a store level, but I think it goes
back to I mean, every producedepartment has a scale, so why
not?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
You feel like you can integrate that in and it's
about delight yeah, that's theword.
Like when I read that articleit's like, oh, they're
delighting shoppers yeah you'reremoving the risk of.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
When I buy avocados I know for sure I'm getting the
right one and I'm going to beable to execute right my meal or
the dish or the recipe that I'mwanting to, yeah, confidence as
a shopper, right, it'spsychologically that helps a lot
, right, so you have to trustthat what you're buying is
something that you can actuallyuse.
So I absolutely love it.
All right, let's get into someof our big topics today.
(14:10):
So you know, the first topicwe're going to talk about is
staffing, resourcing and hiringin this world that you and I
live in on a day-to-day basis,which is retail media, right,
and so $61.2 billion is going toretail media spend in 2025.
And that's a huge number andit's a huge increase.
(14:32):
It's driving this demand forresources for people that
actually know what they're doing, skilled talent that really
know retail.
You and I have been in retailfor a long time, and so we've
grown up in it.
But if you have a lot of peoplewho work in the media space and
(14:54):
they don't understand retail,there's that, that, that switch,
that of switching over.
Really try, really trying tounderstand the retail, because
the retail channel is quite abit different and even in the
world where, like some of theadvertising jobs actually have
kind of declined, retail mediais still they still exploding
(15:16):
absolutely, and so everybody iscompeting for like in this space
, right, whether it be an agency, a retailer, a brand suppliers
they're all looking for the samepeople.
I mean, obviously, here inNorthwest Arkansas, we know a
lot of people and know themovement that takes place
between all of those entitiesright here in this market.
And the idea too is like, withOmnichannel, right, and retail
(15:40):
media and the definition of thatcontinuing to expand, right,
you know, retail media is now instore, right, retail media is
in store.
Retail media are sponsoredsearch ads.
Retail media is now and we'lltalk about it in a little bit
connected TV.
Like the expectation is that youknow all of these channels
right, and I've been in the room, I've been in the room, I've
been in those conversations.
It just puts so much pressureon having the right people and I
(16:05):
even contend do you even havethe right team right?
Do you have even the right teamto service that?
And so I think it puts a lot ofpressure on individuals and you
and I, you know we talk a lotabout the people side of things
and I think that also evenindicates a level or drives a
level of stress, you know, inorder to cover all that.
So I think like there's realpressure here.
(16:26):
And then you throw in the AIcomponent.
Right, oh is you know.
Ai is going to come in and makethis easier.
Now I work in a in an AI techstartup.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I know how hard it is to get AI to do what you really
want it to do, no matter whatyou know.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Sam Altman says it's definitely very difficult.
So you know, we can approachthis from a few different angles
, right, you know.
But I would say I would startwith, like, if you were trying
to resource a team for retailmedia, specifically in this
market, knowing what you know,how would you start?
(17:05):
Like, where would you start?
Would you start with, like youknow, bringing people in from
outside of retail media andtraining them?
Would you start from scratchand bring people in and raise
them up?
How would you approach reallytrying to address all of these
things that were have going onat the same time?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
it's a great question .
I know it's like they shouldstart a start a staffing uh
consultancy company to talkthrough this, because I think
it's it's not only a currentissue, but it's something that I
think every company is going toneed a perspective on right.
You know, and you've seen a lotof I have the luxury of getting
to work with a lot of differentpeople.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
From traditional agencies to CPG manufacturers,
fortune 500 to, you know,enterprise kind of level down to
startups, yeah, and you seedifferent, varying approaches.
Some are oh, is this e-comm?
Right, so the e-comm sales teamneeds to do it.
So I think the first place Iwould start is do I want to do
(18:04):
this from an owned and operatedperspective?
Do I want this to be anin-house capability of our
organization?
So if I'm ex-CPG, what do Iwant to do?
Do I want to have that talentin-house or do I want to have
part of that talent in-house andthen use external services such
(18:26):
as a media agency or a shop orcommerce agency, et cetera?
And I think there's pros andcons to both.
I've seen organizations kind oftake that and so setting that
framework of what is ourperspective of?
Do we want to own the wholething or do what role do we want
to play within the organization?
And then I just like in allthings and I think that there's
(18:47):
nothing new under the sun, ai isnot the first technology to
disrupt the world and it willabsolutely not be the last.
I think it's it's it's the hot,hot thing if you go back a few
years nfts oh yeah, web 3 restin peace web 3.0 metaverse.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I mean that was we're gonna be shopping in the
metaverse everything was.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I mean, at every conference I went to it was
metaverse, metaverse, metaverse,nfts, you know, non-fungible,
tokensible tokens.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
But like that's not even been mentioned recently,
and so I do think it's a balanceof going, diversity Right, of
taking, and I think greatproblems are solved through
diversity of thinking Right anddiversity of experience.
And so when you go, hey, retailis its own dynamic Right, and
(19:43):
so it's probably not wise tobring a bunch of people who live
in a certain market let's callit a major media market like New
York city and just go.
We've got a ton of media folksthat have only ever done media,
throw them in and let let's letthem be our whole team.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Right Now, yeah, it's a cross pollination that needs
to happen, right, hey?
What if?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
you have some folks that are deep retail experts,
that grew up in retail.
You marry those with deep mediaexperts.
You come into some brandstorytelling, so people that are
maybe classically trained inbrand, yeah.
And then you have folks thatunderstand the mechanics of
sales.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Of like what does it look like to work with a
merchant?
What are the problems with sitemerch?
And how do I, how do I getthings done?
Actually, because I think oneof the things that that can be a
tendency is you get into thishypothetical world.
Oh well, we get in a room andwe come up with all these ideas
for our retail media strategy.
Well, can you execute it?
(20:40):
And do you have thecapabilities or the skill sets
to do hands-on keyboard?
As of July 1st, a lot of thestuff here is you have to do it.
It's self-serve right and so doyou have the talent to not just
theoretically understand it butfunctionally execute it?
And I think you need a balanceof both.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Honestly, I knew a lot of people scrambling at that
time.
I think what Brad is referringto is Walmart went from a lot of
their media being managedservice to hands-on keyboard,
which basically means anyone canhave a login and actually set
up their own media, and so thattransition for so many brands
was so disruptive, right,because all of a sudden, you
(21:21):
know I don't have somebody elsedoing it for me.
I have to actually go in thereand do it myself, and what
levers do I pull and what do Iset up and how do I put a daily
budget in All of those thingsthat go along with that.
I would say, though, you know,on the Walmart Connect side, I
do think they do a fair job attraining and provide a lot of
support from a trainingperspective, because that's one
of the areas that, you know, forme personally, I'm passionate
(21:43):
about is training anddevelopment.
For sure, and I think you know,like you have, in this world
where retail media experts arenot necessarily all going to be
falling from the trees, you'vegot to figure out a way to do a
ground-up approach as well,almost an apprenticeship model,
and have a have a have astructured training type of
(22:05):
development plan like helppeople understand and all of the
different aspects, right thatthat in that go into today's
retail, media, retail marketer,omni-channel shopper market,
whatever you want to call it,because it has like 52 names,
but I do think it's.
It's that development and thatstructure has to be there,
otherwise, you know, nobody hastime to just oh, come along with
(22:30):
me to this meeting and you'llfigure it out as we go, right.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, and it's interesting, the word expert
that gets thrown around a lotLike you'll read a job
description, it's like, oh, weneed 15 years experience, like
if you go into any other fieldpsychology I have a lot of
friends that are like, incounseling or therapists, law
yeah, experts is like decadesRight.
(22:54):
Yeah, this hasn't even reallybeen around, no, for decades.
No, this is a relatively newdiscipline.
And so I do think that theongoing curiosity of individuals
like I think this is great tohave the conversation for
companies, but if you're alistener and you're going, hey,
I'm sitting here in NorthwestArkansas and I'm a national
account manager, I'm in sales orI'm a merchant at Walmart or at
(23:20):
Sam's Club or you know whateverto be able to say there's a
curiosity of ongoing learning,and I think what you're speaking
to with those Walmart Connectcertifications and the online
training portal, I mean that'sbest in class, right, because
you can come on and start withbasic and get to, I would say,
relatively complex, and that'sup to you.
(23:41):
They put that in the hands ofthe user.
And so if that's somethingyou're sitting here going, oh,
this is really interesting.
And oh, yeah, maybe I thinkfive years ago it was a nice to
have.
It wasn't a mandatory, dependingon your role.
I think now, now in 2025 and aswe go into 2026, everyone in
(24:03):
the organization needs to havesome knowledge, at least at a
theoretical level, of how isthis, how does it work and what
is the impact and how is itdifferent.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Right, and I think I think that's the part that gets
missed quite often is like howis this different?
We're just talking about bannerads, right, you know, and it's,
it's not.
There's more more to it.
Absolutely.
And again, as we mentioned thisearlier, but, as you know,
retail media continues to expandand, you know, more tactics
start to get thrown in thebucket, like how do you make all
(24:35):
of those work and orchestratemedia that is actually going to
to to work for that specificretailer, for your brand?
Absolutely, so awesome.
Yeah, I'm really interested inthe space and, again, as I have
conversations with more and morepeople and, just, you know,
trying to hear more about, like,how things are continuing to to
grow and evolve in the space,and so, you know, we'll see'll
(24:58):
see how it shakes out.
Man, it's a crazy time for surein retail media, all right, so
we're going to move on to ournext topic, and it's still
talking about retail media, butwe're actually talking about
another channel within theretail media space that all of a
sudden has kind of blown up, Iguess this year.
(25:18):
So last year it was in-storeretail media was all the buzz.
Everybody was talking aboutin-store retail media and like,
how do we?
You know how do you do it.
Retailers were investing insignage, you know, tv screens
and stores, but now it feelslike that's pivoted a little bit
and now the new darling isconnected TV or CTV, right, and
(25:42):
so retail media, connected TV adspend is going to plan on
growing almost 50%, 45.5% thisyear, and it's growing three
times faster than retail search,which is not necessarily a
surprise because I feel likeretail search is pretty
saturated, right, you kind ofhit that saturation point, but
it's definitely growing.
By 2027, one in five USconnected TV ad dollars could
(26:07):
flow through retail medianetworks.
So again, that's continuing tomore and more money is getting
put into that.
Walmart acquired Vizio, right,so that was a big play for for
them in 2024.
Amazon obviously has PrimeVideo and they have ads in Prime
Video, so they're playing a bigpart and obviously Walmart ends
and Amazon are the big playersand in retail media.
(26:29):
So it's, you know, trying tofigure out where connected TV
really fits into thisomni-channel retail media
equation is really interestingto me Because on one hand it's
really, you know, it's kind oftop of funnel, right, and you
know, I think there are sometactical and we'll talk about
(26:49):
those as well, but tactical waysthat try to make it more bottom
of funnel, which I think youand I have some questions on the
efficacy of that right, but youknow, is connected TV.
You know you think about retailmedia budgets.
They don't typically, aren'ttypically as large, as you know,
big brand, but are above theline budgets, national media
(27:12):
budgets you have.
Also you have brands that aresmaller, have smaller budgets.
Connected TV is expensive, it'svery expensive.
The CPMs are very, very highand so you're trying to manage
the value, even though you'retrying to do awareness and you
understand you're trying to getreach and reach to a specific
audience.
Does that equation actuallyplay out?
(27:33):
So, from your perspective andjust what you've seen with
connected TV, you know, whatrole do you really see it having
a practical play within aretail media plan, if you will,
or strategy, that's?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
a great, again great question.
You know I think you lookbefore I answer that I think you
have to take one step back ofgoing like what's been the
historical downfall oftraditional TV advertising Right
.
Because cable networks are notnecessarily thriving and haven't
been for a decade.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Maybe that's Definitely over the last several
years it's changed quite a bit.
It's changed right.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
And so you've got streaming services that are now,
and most of the major networksnow have their own streaming
services, like Peacock andothers from NBC, and so there's
been kind of a pivot.
That industry has made a pivot,and I think that as retail
media, the secret sauce is thoseaudiences and understanding
(28:33):
shopper behavior in a reallycompelling manner.
And if you walmart, you go,guess what?
We've got 150 million weeklyshoppers.
Guess what they probably dowatch tv and watch these
streaming services.
And so if I'm an advertiser, Igo well, I want to get, if I
think back to like png and maybethis isn't even an andy
(28:55):
murrayatchi thing of the 19moments of truth of like all
these specific touch points in ashopper or a human's life.
Well, now you can come intotheir living room or on their
device, real time, right.
And so I do think that there'san intimacy of that ad unit, if
(29:16):
you will, comparatively toothers within the traditional
retail media spin, and so youknow, I think it's something
that's not going anywhere.
I think it's like the datatells that there's going to be
continued investment.
I think the balance is what isthe goal of that part of the
broader plan, right, right.
(29:37):
And so how do our tactics go inunison, rather than just go oh,
here's our key visual andhere's our creative campaign,
let's throw it on on here andyou scan this code and it goes
here.
But being able to be verydecisive of what is the
objective and then when becauseit probably won't be on every
campaign, yeah, it'll be forcertain moments that really make
(29:59):
sense for the shopper.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
And I think that that's something that, with the
folks that I've been meetingwith recently at WMC even a few
weeks ago I was talking to ChadBernstein, who's one of the
industry leads over health andwellness, and his comment was
we've got to make sure, justlike Mr Sam talked about, the
shopper is always at the centerof what we do, and that we don't
(30:23):
sell tactics, we sell solutionsthat are shopper-centric.
And so I think the connected TVcan go back into that kind of
dynamic of meeting the shopperwhere they're at in a really
compelling manner.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's no surprise to anyone that
everyone's attention is nowfractionalized more than it's
ever been before.
Right, you have more choice onwhere you spend your, your
attention.
I think you know you and I weretalking earlier about you know,
your two screen experience,right, you have something going
on on TV Plus.
You've got your phone in yourhand as you're, you know.
You know we'll say you'reco-watching, right, co-watching,
(30:57):
right, co-watching theprogramming and paying attention
to all of the ads, I'm sure.
Right, because you are anamazing marketer.
But you know, in those scenariosnow you're starting to see some
of these ways in which you canexit the funnel, you know, into
conversion, right, or at leastthese attempts to do that,
(31:20):
whether it be a QR code or youtake your remote and you can add
something and send it to yourphone with certain networks,
like, I mean, I do that out ofcuriosity as a marketer and
really curious and interested.
Like, do you feel that othersare doing that as well?
Is this just kind of a ruse?
I don't want to say a ruse, butis this really just a way like,
(31:40):
oh, this is a top-of-the-funnelopportunity awareness, but
guess what?
You can also sell something atthe same time, so we get to
eject out of the funnel at adifferent part, right?
So I'm just curious on whatyour point of view is on, really
, on the part of how do youtransact or how you convert with
(32:01):
these, when really, if you everlooked at a commercial before,
it was always about awareness,telling the story, trying to
brand, lift, etc.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Now we're giving these exit strategies yeah, well
, first off, we got to give amoment to whoever the PR person
is for QR codes.
Because, they came, then theywent, they got ushered back in
during COVID and now they areback in full force.
Don't call it a comeback.
(32:30):
It's a comeback of the year QRcodes, but I think you know, as
you were referencing, I justlove to look at human behavior.
Yeah, me too, I think humanbehavior is in watching my kids,
watching my spouse watching,like, observing myself and my
own behavior.
And this is a confession,real-world confession here of
(32:53):
like, most of the time whenthere is something on the TV, I
am primarily looking at my phonefirst, yeah, and so I think
that could be really interestingas a 2.0 of connected TV, of
will they ever be able to tellthat, hey, I'm watching this
screen, I also have, I'm in thishousehold and I'm on this
(33:14):
device.
Is there a way to marry thosesimultaneously?
Maybe a little freaky for some,but I think the capability can
be there to achieve that, but Ido think it's one of those.
Now, it's not every commercialis shoppable, but I do think
it's going to get to a placewhere everyone starts to do it
(33:36):
and go.
At what point is that contentthat compelling?
That I'm going to get to aplace where everyone starts to
do it right, go like, at whatpoint is that content that
compelling?
right that you're going to stopeverything that I'm going to
stop everything else I'm doingto scan that to now I think, if
it's like, let's say, there's apromotion, yeah, absolutely
promotion like I can save adollar off.
I think promotion, that couldbe a huge unlock.
I think sweepstakes like hey,enter to win.
(34:00):
Oh, I watch this.
Oh, I can enter a window tripto hawaii from you know, sun
made, yeah, a brand, theincentive has to overcome the
friction totally right.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And so if the, if the in the formula right, if the
incentive is strong enough, thenyou will get people to to do it
right.
And I mean that you see that inin any situation.
You have a, you have a displayin store that's talking about a
sweepstake, it's if it's easyfor someone to sign up, then
they will do it.
(34:31):
If the, if the value of theprize is a million, you put a,
you put a end cap or you put adisplay, a display in a store
that says you can win a milliondollars, I guarantee you're
going to get a lot of entriesright.
I mean, it's just becausethat's, you know, that equation,
that value equation for timeversus effort, leans towards.
(34:51):
I'll put in the effort,absolutely.
Yeah, I think you know.
I do think, like connected TV,like anything, to your point, it
depends on what you're tryingto achieve and what you're
trying to do.
You're trying to get eyeballs,you're trying to get attention.
Your audience is on thatspecific.
You know programming, you knowyou may be an underdeveloped
brand or a new product andyou're trying to bring in a
(35:13):
market.
And you've got to do education.
I think there is definitely alot of opportunity and I do
think there is more to thinkingabout.
How do you, what doesconversion really look like?
Right, and I think also themeasurement side of things
aren't really well developed aswell, and at that stage I mean,
I'm sure you know a lot ofreally smart retailers are
(35:35):
figuring that out.
So I'm not saying that it won'tever, ever get there, but I
think that also, when you lookat how much it's going to cost
to do this and what themeasurement and value you get
out of it, if you're not lookingat things holistically, it may
not look like the best decisionevery single time for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah Well, and you saw, even last night it was the
start of the NFL season on.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
NBC.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
And you know, with the partnership with
NBCUniversal and Walmart and theshopability of now going,
you're now giving like as aWalmart marketer or even as a
brand team that really needs towin there.
I now have the ability to showup in major live sports with a
commerce activity which I didn'tpreviously have access to.
It's a new lever right, and soI think you know people have
(36:25):
asked this like well, whatshould I do?
How should I think about this?
You should try it, test it,test and learn, see how it works
.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
You know, you never.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I think sometimes it's easy to sit behind a mic or
a table and go, oh, ultimatums.
It either is horrible or it'sthe best thing ever, and I think
again, it's situational.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
But nobody likes the, it depends Brad.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Nobody likes it, depends Hard maybe on that.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
But I mean, I think it's smart with sports, right?
Because and I don't have thenumbers in front of me, but
sports definitely is somethingthat everyone watches.
At the same time, you know, youget huge audiences for live
sporting events.
That's why there's been so muchinvestment in buying into a lot
of these leagues by differentstreaming services.
I think this year is going tobe really interesting, trying to
(37:11):
watch the NFL across all of thepartnerships that they've
signed on with, and so you knowit's going to.
You know, here's an idea Gocreate a website that actually
helps people find NFL games, ifthat doesn't already exist,
right.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yes, let's go Cool.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
All right, so let's move on to our third main topic
tonight and that's, you know,amazon.
It's just really interesting.
So, you know, again, you and Ihave been in this space quite a
while and we've kind of seen theevolution, right, and we've
looked at Amazon and we'velooked at Walmart and obviously
(37:45):
been very close to Walmart herein northwest Arkansas and
they've made a lot of moves inretail and commerce that you
know are very interesting to me.
You know they've been rivals,right.
You have these two behemoths intheir own, in their own right,
for a lot of reasons.
You know, amazon offersdifferent, some differences than
(38:07):
Walmart and Walmart offers somedifferences than Amazon.
But, like you know, with theannouncement of Amazon going to
same-day grocery delivery, youknow, in 1,000 cities and then
expanding to 2,300, and they'regrowing in their online grocery
and essentials right, which isan area that Walmart has owned
(38:30):
right, dominated, absolutelydominated right, dominated right
.
And then Walmart is really, youknow, adding marketplace.
You know marketplace sellers,their ad business is continuing
to to grow.
I think their ad revenue is up26% year-on-year, so continued
it.
So that was an area whereAmazon dominated right.
(38:51):
And so you have these twobehemoths and one is kind of
getting into a space that onewas really strong at, and then
vice versa.
And then you know, we justtalked about Connected TV.
Both have Connected TV,connected TV plays.
So, like, what are yourthoughts on, like, when you get
into this space where you havethese two big companies and one
(39:14):
is trying to add things that theother one is doing and, and you
know, is that really, is thatgood for the consumer, is that
good for our industry?
Like, what are your?
What are your?
What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 2 (39:27):
yeah, uh, I think competition in all areas of life
are good yeah, as a well, heused to be at nike right n it's,
it's it's.
Competition drives innovation.
Yeah, it does in every industry.
It does in every sector Um andso when there's no competition,
things get stagnant.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, right, cause there's no need to innovate.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Why?
Why do we need to roll out anew capability or, you know, a
new service?
And so I think that that's beenthe expansion.
Of both entities have benefitedfrom the other, and so one of
the things that's been reallyinteresting.
Going back to our very firstquestion about talent, there's
also been a lot ofcross-pollination of talent
(40:11):
Former Walmart folks that arenow over there, a lot of former.
Amazon folks that are now overat Walmart, because diversity of
thinking approaches solvingproblems through a different
lens, and I think that that's ifI've observed Walmart in the
last 36 months, specificallylooking at them first.
(40:32):
They're reinventing themselvesand I think it's not as
surprising for us that are hereand get a front row seat For the
national media they're a littleshocked.
Like wait, Gen Z is lovingWalmart as a brand more than
Target.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
What.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
There's no way they love Walmart more than Target.
But you start to go.
Well, think about what they'vedone, think about their ad
campaigns, think about theservices they provide.
Think about now millennials arehaving families and Walmart's
you know the place you can goshop for everything.
At a low, everyday, low price.
(41:11):
There's trust that they have,and so you know one of the
things that I'm kind of thepivot of Amazon.
They've been sitting here andthey're not stupid, they're
looking and going.
Man, walmart does groceryreally well, yeah, and they've
done it really well for a longtime, both in physical stores
and now with online pickup anddelivery and now same day
(41:33):
express delivery.
I mean, I can get stuff to myhouse in an hour.
Yeah, that's crazy.
I mean to think about three orfour years ago to go.
I can get my groceries I need.
I'm missing this item and I'mmaking this recipe.
I don't have to get out and Ican still do this Like that's,
that's pretty.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
That's such a good point too because I mean,
obviously, convenience is adriver, right, that's why people
pay, spend a lot of money onDoorDash, right, absolutely, you
could go to the McDonald's andget the food, or you could have
somebody bring it to you, right,and so you pay for that
convenience.
It's so interesting because Iremember back in the Peapod days
(42:11):
, right.
So Peapod was grocery deliveryTotally.
I think what was that likeearly 2000s-ish, 2005, 2006.
Yeah, right, but it could nevermake money.
But now, obviously, you thinkabout where we are and being
able to get things from Walmartin an hour or get them overnight
(42:33):
, depending on what shippingoption you select or if you have
a Walmart Plus membership orPrime.
It makes it so much moreconvenient.
You've got to think about thelogistics.
Logistics, I think everybodysees on the surface, oh well, of
course they can just mail it tome or they can just drop it by.
(42:55):
I mean, a guy drives up in mydriveway and puts it on my
doorstep, right.
But the logistics that go intothat and the planning and all of
that, right.
And so it's really interestingbecause Walmart is leveraging
their strength of their storesfor an advantage there, right,
amazon leverages their strengthon e-commerce delivery right
through their logistics channelfor their advantage.
(43:16):
There, right, amazon leveragestheir strength on e-commerce
delivery right through theirlogistics channel for their
advantage, and so now you'restarting to kind of see both of
those kind of coinciding, and Ithink it just sets the
expectation for shoppers that,no matter what I want, no matter
who I buy it from, to a certainextent not all things, but to a
(43:37):
certain extent I can get it asfast as an hour or so, and so
it's just interesting to see howthese two behemoths, as we said
earlier, have evolved.
And I would also say that I'vebeen very close to Walmart for
about 13 years, that I've beenvery close to Walmart for about
(43:59):
13 years, and I would say thelast three for Walmart have been
, by far and away, have reallygone off the charts as far as
the ability to execute muchfaster, much better than the
previous year.
So it's really been exciting tosee that happen.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Well, and the other thing when you look at the two,
I think Walmart did a reallygood job and it's evolved, and I
think great companies pivot,yeah, and they don't have ego in
the sense of like, no, we'reriding this thing.
Maybe some do.
But if you look at Prime youmentioned Walmart Plus Prime's
(44:36):
been around.
It's the bread and butter kindof like loyalty, self-love
platform of like, hey, I'm goingto be a Prime member, I get
access to Prime Video, I get youknow delivery at a certain
timetable that they've set asnow the industry kind of
expectation of two days or less.
And Walmart, when they launchedWalmart Plus to what it is now,
(44:58):
it looks a lot different.
You know they launched it withcertain benefits of what do
shoppers really want, and someof those things were right and
some of those things were maybea little off.
And I think that when I wasreading an article yesterday
that said you know the thingsthat they're starting to add on
to Walmart Plus fuel, you knowgirls in there yeah, like well,
(45:20):
gas prices are not, you know,unpredictable at best right, and
so, for families, paramount.
I get now get streaming, soit's like one less thing that
maybe I was doing yeah or using.
It's not just seeing WalmartPlus as a cost center to a
shopper.
It's seeing it as a valuecreator and it's not just oh yes
(45:40):
, we're giving them values, butwe're building long-term
relationship, and I think thatthat's something they're both
fine.
You talked about the attentionkind of economy.
I would also like to saythere's a bigger thing at play.
It's called the love economy oflike who you can't love,
everybody you know, or maybe youcan try to be nice to everybody
(46:01):
, but, like for retailers, thereis your kind of favorite.
Yeah, of like I'm in a pinch,what am I going to go to?
And I think they're trying toearn the shopper's trust through
brand love.
And I think walmart, with theireven recent ad campaign of like
kind of that, did you know?
right, I bet you didn't knowthis with goggins beautifully
(46:22):
shot, yeah, and it hits a humantruth.
Yeah, oh, I had no idea, and soit'll be really interesting get
our popcorn and watch this kindof continue to play out, and I
would imagine if we sit down inthis exact place in a year,
it'll be interesting to see whatwe're talking about, because I
think they're both innovating atthe speed of light right now
(46:42):
and ultimately, you know whowins the shopper right.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
That's ultimately who wins right, and that's in that
scenario.
So it's an exciting, really anexciting time, because I do
think, to a certain extent, bothare playing on a level field in
certain areas, both havestrengths, both have
opportunities and I thinkthey're really trying to
maximize those opportunities andleveraging their strengths to
do so.
(47:06):
So it's really going to beinteresting to see.
But, like I said before, we'regoing to win.
Yeah, we are definitely goingto win.
All right, we're ready now tomove on to game time.
Game time Are you ready for agame, brad, I love games.
Would you like to play a game?
Yes, all right, we're going toplay a game.
It's called Vibe Check and it'sreally simple.
(47:27):
I'm going to throw out astatement and you give me your
first gut reaction right, allright, are you ready?
Let's go.
Okay, let's do it.
All right, so don't overthinkit.
First statement AI will solveretail media resourcing
challenges.
What's your gut say?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
No no.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Really.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
You sure it's hard.
Now what will?
Oh man, that's even a harderone.
I think it's getting people ina room with diverse perspectives
.
I'm going to go back to that oflike that, want to seek to
understand and be curious andare willing to test and learn to
get to the right fit.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah, I cheated there .
I wasn't supposed to ask you afollow-up question.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
It's okay, my bad, we'll play the game.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Connected TV will be the most important retail media
channel within five years no, no.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
I mean, I think it's going to be an important one.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I don't think it's going to be the most important
one I guess it also depends onwhose perspective it is right,
is it so?
Um, all right, so all right.
Here's another one.
Retail media is just shoppermarketing with a new name.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
No, there's a trend.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
It's no.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Yeah, I mean I'm just giving you all the no's, I mean
I think retail media iscombining the worlds of media
with creative practices that areretail-centric, right for the
shopper of the target.
Guest versus the Kroger shopperversus the public shopper are
very different, and so it's.
I think shopper marketing is apart of retail media.
They are not synonymous withone another.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah, I mean, shopper marketing has the whole
psychology behind it, right, and?
And so the shopper psychology,that's a key piece of shopper
marketing and, yes, it plays arole in retail media, for sure,
but it's not.
It's not the whole thing,absolutely in retail media, for
sure, but it's not the wholething, absolutely.
All right, this holiday, thisholiday season coming up, more
sales will happen via agenticshopping versus TikTok shops.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Oh, what's your gut say I'm going to stay with
TikTok because my you know,having friends that have
teenagers and the consumingpower of the young people, I
don't think that that's goinganywhere.
I think it's going to continueto expand.
I think there was someuncertainty last year with the
(49:53):
political situation aroundTikTok.
I think that has pretty muchbeen dealt with and it's not
going to be an issue.
Yeah talk.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I think that has pretty much been dealt with and
it's not going to be an issue.
Yeah for it.
So I do think agentic shoppingis it's.
It's going to be a key timeperiod for agentic shopping
absolutely as well.
So we'll see we'll see more.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
We'll see how that plays.
January will tell the tell yes.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, there will probably be a million podcasts
that will talk about agenticshopping over the retail, retail
or the holiday season.
For sure, all right, dunkin' isbetter than Starbucks.
No, no, come on, I know yourcompany is from Boston.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
But, as we, no one probably knows this, but I don't
even know if you know this butnot only did I start my career
at Nike, but I spent three yearsworking at Starbucks in college
down in Fayetteville when therewas one Starbucks in Northwest
Arkansas, and I actually met mywife in the Starbucks drive-thru
.
So I am not only a Nike formerNike guy, but I am a partner
(50:52):
from Starbucks.
So I have a loyalty to them and, on a total side note, excited
to where that company's going.
I think they've got greatleadership right now as a
stockholder and excited to seewhere they go.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah, don't interpret that as financial advice.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Yep, that is not investing advice, that's just as
a former partner, all right,and finally, Taylor Swift's
engagement to Travis Kelsey isthe event of the year.
Yes, oh, I did a pivot as a dadof three daughters and a wife.
(51:29):
You know, having a wife wholoves Taylor Swift, I not only
think it might be the event ofthe year, but I think I'm going
to be a little more bold.
I think Taylor Swift could bethe most successful CMO out
there.
I think she is a brilliantmarketer, brand storyteller.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Or has somebody that works for her.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Everything she's doing or the people she's
surrounding herself with areabsolutely masterful at
capturing attention of the world.
So there you go Awesome.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
That's a great way to wrap it up.
You know, it would be amazingif that wedding was televised.
It would be like probably themost watched anything.
It would probably rival, youknow, the Royals getting married
and so forth.
You know, even in today's dayof of, you know, this
(52:17):
fractionalized attentiontimeframe that we have now, um,
so, yeah, well, a great way togreat way to go out.
All right, party people, it istime to wrap this one up.
Um, I hope you've enjoyed thevibes in the show today.
So I want to huge thank you toBrad for sharing his thoughts,
his vibes, his love with ustoday.
(52:38):
Brad, do you have any lastwords?
No, I just think that Anythingyou'd like to plug.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah, you know the industry is evolving so rapidly
and so I'm excited I'll be outat Grocery Shop where I think a
lot of folks will be gatheringout in Las Vegas here at the end
of September, beginning ofOctober.
And the thing about that showthat's so cool is not just the
content, it's the people.
This industry is special, notbecause of the technology, but
(53:07):
because of the humans that workfor these technologies and
develop them.
And so excited to be withpeople and see what that looks
like.
And we're actually at breaktime.
We're going to be gatheringgreat humans in Northwest
Arkansas October 7th at therecord, to talk about
partnership awesome, what's thepower of it like to do all this
stuff within retail media.
It takes a village, it does.
(53:28):
You can't do it in isolation.
And so excited to be with moregreat people trying to have
these conversations continue anddiscuss what the future of that
looks like.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah, awesome, that sounds great.
Yeah, I hope to be around forsome of those things, so you'll
get an invite, thank you.
Thanks, man.
Will you come back to RetailMedia Vibes?
Would you come back to the show?
And there's really only oneanswer, because I'll edit it.
So, yes, okay, all right.
So, yes, okay, all right.
No, I appreciate that, allright.
So if you have any thoughts orquestions or comments about
(54:00):
Retail Media Vibes, you can goahead and hit me up at
retailmediavibes at gmailcom.
Don't forget to like, subscribe.
Hit the bell for notificationson the podcast.
That helps out a lot, maybe.
Leave a comment, leave a review.
I want to thank everybody somuch for listening and, as
always, I will, I promise.
I promise to do better nexttime.
And that's it.
Bv out, peace.
What's up party people?
Bv here and welcome to episode2 of the retail media vibes
podcast, a doing business inBentonville podcast.
I am recording retail mediavibes at podcast video studios
here in Rogers, Arkansas.
So if you ever want to createyour own podcast and have a
professional place to go and gethooked up, I encourage you to
(00:30):
visit Podcast Videos here inRogers Arkansas.
So before we get into the showtoday, just a little disclaimer
All of the opinions expressedare my own and are not
necessarily reflective of past,present or future employers.
And with that on with the show,All right, today we're going to
(00:50):
start off with Vibe Chat, wherewe get a chance to meet our
guest today and we get to know agood friend of mine, longtime
friend, Brad Godwin.
Hi, Brad, How's it going?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Man, it's Friday and it's a beautiful day in
Northwest Arkansas, so I got myhoodie on because it's
fall-esque.
Yes, it is, and I got a goodcoffee and all is good.
We're going to talk some retailmedia today.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, we are.
Yeah, I think it's perfect tohave you on the show.
I think Brad is Mr Vibes Rand.
You are like you are the.
When I think of vibes, I thinkof Brad, and I'm sure those that
know you probably feel the sameway.
So obviously we want to get toknow a little bit about you for
the audience and those that aretuning in.
So tell me a little bit aboutBrad.
(01:32):
What would you say you do?
Oh, that's a great question.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
I always like to kind of do an inverse answer OK,
because maybe that's part of theBrad vibes that I like to bring
to the world, because maybethat's part of the Brad vibes
that I like to bring to theworld.
But I get to be a husband,first and foremost to my wife
Leslie, who is a just rockingentrepreneur here in northwest
Arkansas, helping emergingbrands get into Walmart and
started her company GodwinRetail Group.
(01:58):
I get to be a dad.
I've got four daughters, threehere on earth, one in heaven.
My oldest daughter's name's Diaand she's a seventh grader, and
then I have a fourth gradernamed Aria and a four and a half
year old named Evie.
So those are my primary jobs ofwhat I get to do.
And then, vocationally, I getto come alongside a company
(02:21):
called Break Time Media, basedout of Boston, massachusetts,
boston.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
I love Boston.
I know You're a Boston guy.
You're a Boston guy.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Shout out to my homies up in Boston, but we get
to help build really coolinteractive digital experiences
for brands that drive commerce,and so I get to drink a lot of
coffee with folks in NorthwestArkansas.
You have one here, I have onehere from Heroes.
We get to talk life and I thinkthat's what's so cool about
(02:50):
Northwest Arkansas is being inthis space and being in this
industry and working in tech,quite frankly, sometimes can
feel less than human, right, youknow, because technology we'll
talk a little bit about some ofthat today, but I think what's
so cool and why I've stayed inthe industry as long as I have,
and I think how we met and ourfriendship that's budded has
been because of human connectionand getting to hear people not
(03:13):
just, oh, what do you do for aliving, but who are you Right,
what are you about?
Because we're all more thanjust what our jobs are or our
titles are, and so, yeah, that'sa little bit about who I am.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you.
You hit on some really greatpoints there and I think that
was you know.
When I talk about Mr Vibes,like for you, it's really about
the humanity that you bring tothe work and to your
relationships and to those youlead and coach and manage and
and so forth, and how importantthat is in today's day and age,
(03:44):
cause I think sometimes we gettoo focused on outcomes and
process and numbers and dollarsand all that stuff and that's
all important.
Of course, we all want to besuccessful in the jobs that we
do and those things areindicators of how things are
going, but you still need tohave that human connection and I
think that's an important part.
I think you do a great job ofbringing that and obviously
(04:04):
that's a part that I've lovedabout you when, um, when we've
gotten to know each other overthe over the years.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
So it's interesting.
You said that and I justsomething just came to mind this
was not on script, but I'lljust say it anyway is I was
talking to a guy who just movedhere to the United States from
Argentina and I said what's thebiggest difference from
Argentina to the United States?
He lives here in Bentonvilleand he's like oh easy.
And I was like okay, what is it?
(04:31):
And he's like, oh, you guysjust ask wrong questions.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Wrong questions.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Huh, well, give me an example.
He said well, when you meetsomeone in Argentina, whether
you're at a bar or a restaurantor just out in public, you ask
what do you do for fun In theUnited States?
You ask, what do you do for aliving, you know?
And so I think it's something.
It's a good reminder in thatconversation of, yes, I'm so
(04:57):
grateful for this industry inthis space because it's been
able to provide, you know, uh,vocationally for us.
But I think what's even cooleris what do we do for fun?
And getting to see sneakers andus to be able to talk about
other things beyond just that,and I think that's what makes
the work so meaningful andthat's, quite frankly, why great
(05:17):
work gets done.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, I think a lot
of us.
I think our identity is basedupon what we do for a living.
I mean, I moved here from DFWalmost almost 13 years ago and
you know I had nobody here,right, and so I moved here.
All of my friends you know thepeople I have close to me that
(05:39):
aren't my family are because ofmy job, right, and you know
people I've met and I met you asa partner in the work and you
got to know you better andthere's so many people that you
know I have really greatrelationships with and I love.
So much is based upon my work.
So, in a way, for me, my workis my identity and what I do,
and because it's been so much ofwhat you know who I am today,
(06:06):
so it's really really cool,really really cool.
So let's, let's, let's just onelittle icebreaker question.
I have several, but I thinkwe're going a little long, so it
was one, a one littleicebreaker question.
So what it?
What?
What is your most recente-commerce purchase?
What was the most recent thingyou thought you purchased?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
online.
Well, this is like real-worldconfessions, because I don't
think my wife knows about thispurchase yet, because it
happened last night.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Hopefully it's not like a gift.
No, not a gift.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I recently stayed at an Airbnb, and at the Airbnb
that I stayed at they had thisreally cool French press and
electric kettle that you can setfor coffee tea and it heats the
water to the exact temperature.
So I ordered both of those lastnight.
Hopefully they should bearriving tomorrow.
So, surprise babe, we got somenew coffee equipment coming.
(06:53):
But yeah, that was my lateste-commerce purchase yeah that's.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
I mean, it's so funny how you get inspired to buy a
certain item and then now,obviously, with you know, the
ubiquity of to be able topurchase something at any time
for any reason just makes thatprocess so frictionless right at
this stage.
For me it actually was.
So Nike you know, you and Iboth have an affection for Nike
(07:23):
very heavily.
They just released and did apartnership with Lego and they
just released some Lego, like aLego kit with Nike dunks and the
Lego figure is dunking the ball, and so I kind of got wrapped
up in the moment, got wrapped upin the hype.
You know, what was funny too ison my last episode we were
talking about this whole trendaround cadult right, adults that
(07:47):
are buying things that wouldnormally be for kids and I was
like, hey, I just fell into thatcohort immediately with the
Lego and Nike thing.
So I'm looking forward toputting it together and putting
it in my office.
So, all right, so that's what Ipurchased man.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
So, all right, so that's what I purchased, man,
and it's interesting, thismerger as a parent, yeah,
because you know you have kidsas well.
I think it's not just about youknow.
Yes, there's the inner childthat, like, loves those playful
things, but there's also lookingfor, again, going back to that
human connection, ways that Ican connect with my kids.
Oh, yeah, yeah, and not go.
(08:24):
Hey, you got to do the things Icare about, right, but oh my
gosh, you really care about this.
I really care about this, likeMario Brothers, right, and that
movie came out.
I'm like this is hitting at mychildhood, yeah, and y'all now
love Mario Brothers movie.
This is a coming togethermoment, right, this is a coming
together moment and anopportunity, not just selfishly
(08:44):
for me to be like I love SuperMario Brothers, but to be able
to engage with my family in ameaningful way too, which is
just awesome.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yeah, it definitely brings the family together and
there's obviously that feelingof nostalgia is a very powerful
feeling, and the ability tobring your family together
around some of these IP is super, super cool.
For me, when my kids were young, it was Star Wars.
Star Wars is really whatbrought us together, and
Spider-Man, you know, and soMarvel, and obviously it's all
(09:14):
expanded from there.
So, yeah, really cool, reallycool.
All right, let's move on now tolet's talk about some topics.
Right, let's go.
I think you and I could justchit-chat all day, but that's
not what everybody wants to hear, right?
They want us to talk about somethings that might be going on
in the retail space, in themedia space.
So let's do a couple of quickhits right out the gate, right?
(09:37):
So this week, taco Bell.
All right, taco Bell.
I know how much you love TacoBell.
Taco Bell is rethinking usingAI in the drive-thru and this
was obviously related to somethings that happened.
I think some guy ordered like18,000 waters from you.
(09:58):
Know, it's like okay, maybe AIwasn't the right solution there.
I think sometimes we'rethrowing AI at the wrong things
to solve it.
I'm not saying whether or notthat's the right thing or not,
but what was your gut reactionwhen you heard that?
To me it was like duh, not asurprise.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Yeah, I think I had two visceral reactions.
One is what in the world arethey thinking?
And two is I know exactly whatthey're thinking.
Taco Bell just wants to betalked about, and they have been
the leader in QSR for decadesin doing things that were crazy.
Not necessarily for thosethings themselves to be the
(10:39):
profitability driver of thebusiness, but guess what?
It's called earned media.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And guess what we're talking about it?
Speaker 2 (10:47):
on a podcast because of that and so I think so much
of what they do and I think thefolks I knew, some folks that
worked in brand there they werelooking for shock value and I
think they've really re-imaginedthat brand over the last decade
into a one that Gen Z resonateswith.
And so whether things work ordon't work from a functional,
(11:11):
quantitative.
Oh my gosh, this doesn't makeany sense.
I think some of it I don't wantto say it's a PR stunt,
necessarily, but I don't thinkthey hate it.
Right, it got picked up andtalked about and went viral.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
And I think, think you know different companies are
going to try ai in differentways and sometimes it's going to
work out.
Sometimes, and, to be fair,taco bell is not the only quick
qsr that uses ai in thedrive-thru, right?
So it's just they're rethinkingit a little bit, totally so.
Another quick hit is so the UKretailer, tesco.
(11:46):
They just launched an avocadotester.
Like I love avocado, I eatavocado a lot, but this avocado
tester is a handheld scannerthat will scan your avocado and
tell you how ripe it is.
So obviously that's a littlebit closer to the retail that we
(12:06):
know and love on a daily basis.
For sure.
But, like you know, is thatjust technology For technology's
sake.
Do you see that reallysomething that I think more
stores should adopt?
I mean, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, I actually was having lunch with a merchant at
Walmart yesterday and we weretalking about not just this
specific topic of the avocadobut like what are pain points
for shoppers that might not comeout like just in data, right
Right, and you have to kind ofwatch and start to talk and you
know one of the things I thinkfor me, I love making homemade
(12:42):
guacamole.
Yeah, for me, I love makinghomemade guacamole.
There's nothing worse thangetting avocados and cutting
into them and being like theseare garbage.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, can't use it.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Now I got so stoked my wife specifically got stoked
for fresh table-side guac athome to know we're not having it
, or if we try to have it, ittastes like garbage, right, and
so I think that's really meetinga need.
I don't think it's tech fortech sake.
I think it's going hey, there'sa human problem, yeah, of I
can't see inside this thing,yeah, and I don't know what's
(13:12):
right and there's a lot of like.
You can do research of like you.
You knock on it you look for acertain color, you squeeze it
but I can say with greatcertainty, as I've tried all of
them them are reliable, right,and so if this is a new reliable
and I think the key is is itscalable, like what's the cost?
Speaker 1 (13:29):
of having that at a store level, but I think it goes
back to I mean, every producedepartment has a scale, so why
not?
Speaker 2 (13:35):
You feel like you can integrate that in and it's
about delight yeah, that's theword.
Like when I read that articleit's like, oh, they're
delighting shoppers yeah you'reremoving the risk of.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
When I buy avocados I know for sure I'm getting the
right one and I'm going to beable to execute right my meal or
the dish or the recipe that I'mwanting to, yeah, confidence as
a shopper, right, it'spsychologically that helps a lot
, right, so you have to trustthat what you're buying is
something that you can actuallyuse.
So I absolutely love it.
All right, let's get into someof our big topics today.
(14:10):
So you know, the first topicwe're going to talk about is
staffing, resourcing and hiringin this world that you and I
live in on a day-to-day basis,which is retail media, right,
and so $61.2 billion is going toretail media spend in 2025.
And that's a huge number andit's a huge increase.
(14:32):
It's driving this demand forresources for people that
actually know what they're doing, skilled talent that really
know retail.
You and I have been in retailfor a long time, and so we've
grown up in it.
But if you have a lot of peoplewho work in the media space and
(14:54):
they don't understand retail,there's that, that, that switch,
that of switching over.
Really try, really trying tounderstand the retail, because
the retail channel is quite abit different and even in the
world where, like some of theadvertising jobs actually have
kind of declined, retail mediais still they still exploding
(15:16):
absolutely, and so everybody iscompeting for like in this space
, right, whether it be an agency, a retailer, a brand suppliers
they're all looking for the samepeople.
I mean, obviously, here inNorthwest Arkansas, we know a
lot of people and know themovement that takes place
between all of those entitiesright here in this market.
And the idea too is like, withOmnichannel, right, and retail
(15:40):
media and the definition of thatcontinuing to expand, right,
you know, retail media is now instore, right, retail media is
in store.
Retail media are sponsoredsearch ads.
Retail media is now and we'lltalk about it in a little bit
connected TV.
Like the expectation is that youknow all of these channels
right, and I've been in the room, I've been in the room, I've
been in those conversations.
It just puts so much pressureon having the right people and I
(16:05):
even contend do you even havethe right team right?
Do you have even the right teamto service that?
And so I think it puts a lot ofpressure on individuals and you
and I, you know we talk a lotabout the people side of things
and I think that also evenindicates a level or drives a
level of stress, you know, inorder to cover all that.
So I think like there's realpressure here.
(16:26):
And then you throw in the AIcomponent.
Right, oh is you know.
Ai is going to come in and makethis easier.
Now I work in a in an AI techstartup.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I know how hard it is to get AI to do what you really
want it to do, no matter whatyou know.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Sam Altman says it's definitely very difficult.
So you know, we can approachthis from a few different angles
, right, you know.
But I would say I would startwith, like, if you were trying
to resource a team for retailmedia, specifically in this
market, knowing what you know,how would you start?
(17:05):
Like, where would you start?
Would you start with, like youknow, bringing people in from
outside of retail media andtraining them?
Would you start from scratchand bring people in and raise
them up?
How would you approach reallytrying to address all of these
things that were have going onat the same time?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
it's a great question .
I know it's like they shouldstart a start a staffing uh
consultancy company to talkthrough this, because I think
it's it's not only a currentissue, but it's something that I
think every company is going toneed a perspective on right.
You know, and you've seen a lotof I have the luxury of getting
to work with a lot of differentpeople.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
From traditional agencies to CPG manufacturers,
fortune 500 to, you know,enterprise kind of level down to
startups, yeah, and you seedifferent, varying approaches.
Some are oh, is this e-comm?
Right, so the e-comm sales teamneeds to do it.
So I think the first place Iwould start is do I want to do
(18:04):
this from an owned and operatedperspective?
Do I want this to be anin-house capability of our
organization?
So if I'm ex-CPG, what do Iwant to do?
Do I want to have that talentin-house or do I want to have
part of that talent in-house andthen use external services such
(18:26):
as a media agency or a shop orcommerce agency, et cetera?
And I think there's pros andcons to both.
I've seen organizations kind oftake that and so setting that
framework of what is ourperspective of?
Do we want to own the wholething or do what role do we want
to play within the organization?
And then I just like in allthings and I think that there's
(18:47):
nothing new under the sun, ai isnot the first technology to
disrupt the world and it willabsolutely not be the last.
I think it's it's it's the hot,hot thing if you go back a few
years nfts oh yeah, web 3 restin peace web 3.0 metaverse.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
I mean that was we're gonna be shopping in the
metaverse everything was.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I mean, at every conference I went to it was
metaverse, metaverse, metaverse,nfts, you know, non-fungible,
tokensible tokens.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
But like that's not even been mentioned recently,
and so I do think it's a balanceof going, diversity Right, of
taking, and I think greatproblems are solved through
diversity of thinking Right anddiversity of experience.
And so when you go, hey, retailis its own dynamic Right, and
(19:43):
so it's probably not wise tobring a bunch of people who live
in a certain market let's callit a major media market like New
York city and just go.
We've got a ton of media folksthat have only ever done media,
throw them in and let let's letthem be our whole team.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Right Now, yeah, it's a cross pollination that needs
to happen, right, hey?
What if?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
you have some folks that are deep retail experts,
that grew up in retail.
You marry those with deep mediaexperts.
You come into some brandstorytelling, so people that are
maybe classically trained inbrand, yeah.
And then you have folks thatunderstand the mechanics of
sales.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Of like what does it look like to work with a
merchant?
What are the problems with sitemerch?
And how do I, how do I getthings done?
Actually, because I think oneof the things that that can be a
tendency is you get into thishypothetical world.
Oh well, we get in a room andwe come up with all these ideas
for our retail media strategy.
Well, can you execute it?
(20:40):
And do you have thecapabilities or the skill sets
to do hands-on keyboard?
As of July 1st, a lot of thestuff here is you have to do it.
It's self-serve right and so doyou have the talent to not just
theoretically understand it butfunctionally execute it?
And I think you need a balanceof both.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Honestly, I knew a lot of people scrambling at that
time.
I think what Brad is referringto is Walmart went from a lot of
their media being managedservice to hands-on keyboard,
which basically means anyone canhave a login and actually set
up their own media, and so thattransition for so many brands
was so disruptive, right,because all of a sudden, you
(21:21):
know I don't have somebody elsedoing it for me.
I have to actually go in thereand do it myself, and what
levers do I pull and what do Iset up and how do I put a daily
budget in All of those thingsthat go along with that.
I would say, though, you know,on the Walmart Connect side, I
do think they do a fair job attraining and provide a lot of
support from a trainingperspective, because that's one
of the areas that, you know, forme personally, I'm passionate
(21:43):
about is training anddevelopment.
For sure, and I think you know,like you have, in this world
where retail media experts arenot necessarily all going to be
falling from the trees, you'vegot to figure out a way to do a
ground-up approach as well,almost an apprenticeship model,
and have a have a have astructured training type of
(22:05):
development plan like helppeople understand and all of the
different aspects, right thatthat in that go into today's
retail, media, retail marketer,omni-channel shopper market,
whatever you want to call it,because it has like 52 names,
but I do think it's.
It's that development and thatstructure has to be there,
otherwise, you know, nobody hastime to just oh, come along with
(22:30):
me to this meeting and you'llfigure it out as we go, right.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, and it's interesting, the word expert
that gets thrown around a lotLike you'll read a job
description, it's like, oh, weneed 15 years experience, like
if you go into any other fieldpsychology I have a lot of
friends that are like, incounseling or therapists, law
yeah, experts is like decadesRight.
(22:54):
Yeah, this hasn't even reallybeen around, no, for decades.
No, this is a relatively newdiscipline.
And so I do think that theongoing curiosity of individuals
like I think this is great tohave the conversation for
companies, but if you're alistener and you're going, hey,
I'm sitting here in NorthwestArkansas and I'm a national
account manager, I'm in sales orI'm a merchant at Walmart or at
(23:20):
Sam's Club or you know whateverto be able to say there's a
curiosity of ongoing learning,and I think what you're speaking
to with those Walmart Connectcertifications and the online
training portal, I mean that'sbest in class, right, because
you can come on and start withbasic and get to, I would say,
relatively complex, and that'sup to you.
(23:41):
They put that in the hands ofthe user.
And so if that's somethingyou're sitting here going, oh,
this is really interesting.
And oh, yeah, maybe I thinkfive years ago it was a nice to
have.
It wasn't a mandatory, dependingon your role.
I think now, now in 2025 and aswe go into 2026, everyone in
(24:03):
the organization needs to havesome knowledge, at least at a
theoretical level, of how isthis, how does it work and what
is the impact and how is itdifferent.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
Right, and I think I think that's the part that gets
missed quite often is like howis this different?
We're just talking about bannerads, right, you know, and it's,
it's not.
There's more more to it.
Absolutely.
And again, as we mentioned thisearlier, but, as you know,
retail media continues to expandand, you know, more tactics
start to get thrown in thebucket, like how do you make all
(24:35):
of those work and orchestratemedia that is actually going to
to to work for that specificretailer, for your brand?
Absolutely, so awesome.
Yeah, I'm really interested inthe space and, again, as I have
conversations with more and morepeople and, just, you know,
trying to hear more about, like,how things are continuing to to
grow and evolve in the space,and so, you know, we'll see'll
(24:58):
see how it shakes out.
Man, it's a crazy time for surein retail media, all right, so
we're going to move on to ournext topic, and it's still
talking about retail media, butwe're actually talking about
another channel within theretail media space that all of a
sudden has kind of blown up, Iguess this year.
(25:18):
So last year it was in-storeretail media was all the buzz.
Everybody was talking aboutin-store retail media and like,
how do we?
You know how do you do it.
Retailers were investing insignage, you know, tv screens
and stores, but now it feelslike that's pivoted a little bit
and now the new darling isconnected TV or CTV, right, and
(25:42):
so retail media, connected TV adspend is going to plan on
growing almost 50%, 45.5% thisyear, and it's growing three
times faster than retail search,which is not necessarily a
surprise because I feel likeretail search is pretty
saturated, right, you kind ofhit that saturation point, but
it's definitely growing.
By 2027, one in five USconnected TV ad dollars could
(26:07):
flow through retail medianetworks.
So again, that's continuing tomore and more money is getting
put into that.
Walmart acquired Vizio, right,so that was a big play for for
them in 2024.
Amazon obviously has PrimeVideo and they have ads in Prime
Video, so they're playing a bigpart and obviously Walmart ends
and Amazon are the big playersand in retail media.
(26:29):
So it's, you know, trying tofigure out where connected TV
really fits into thisomni-channel retail media
equation is really interestingto me Because on one hand it's
really, you know, it's kind oftop of funnel, right, and you
know, I think there are sometactical and we'll talk about
(26:49):
those as well, but tactical waysthat try to make it more bottom
of funnel, which I think youand I have some questions on the
efficacy of that right, but youknow, is connected TV.
You know you think about retailmedia budgets.
They don't typically, aren'ttypically as large, as you know,
big brand, but are above theline budgets, national media
(27:12):
budgets you have.
Also you have brands that aresmaller, have smaller budgets.
Connected TV is expensive, it'svery expensive.
The CPMs are very, very highand so you're trying to manage
the value, even though you'retrying to do awareness and you
understand you're trying to getreach and reach to a specific
audience.
Does that equation actuallyplay out?
(27:33):
So, from your perspective andjust what you've seen with
connected TV, you know, whatrole do you really see it having
a practical play within aretail media plan, if you will,
or strategy, that's?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
a great, again great question.
You know I think you lookbefore I answer that I think you
have to take one step back ofgoing like what's been the
historical downfall oftraditional TV advertising Right
.
Because cable networks are notnecessarily thriving and haven't
been for a decade.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Maybe that's Definitely over the last several
years it's changed quite a bit.
It's changed right.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
And so you've got streaming services that are now,
and most of the major networksnow have their own streaming
services, like Peacock andothers from NBC, and so there's
been kind of a pivot.
That industry has made a pivot,and I think that as retail
media, the secret sauce is thoseaudiences and understanding
(28:33):
shopper behavior in a reallycompelling manner.
And if you walmart, you go,guess what?
We've got 150 million weeklyshoppers.
Guess what they probably dowatch tv and watch these
streaming services.
And so if I'm an advertiser, Igo well, I want to get, if I
think back to like png and maybethis isn't even an andy
(28:55):
murrayatchi thing of the 19moments of truth of like all
these specific touch points in ashopper or a human's life.
Well, now you can come intotheir living room or on their
device, real time, right.
And so I do think that there'san intimacy of that ad unit, if
(29:16):
you will, comparatively toothers within the traditional
retail media spin, and so youknow, I think it's something
that's not going anywhere.
I think it's like the datatells that there's going to be
continued investment.
I think the balance is what isthe goal of that part of the
broader plan, right, right.
(29:37):
And so how do our tactics go inunison, rather than just go oh,
here's our key visual andhere's our creative campaign,
let's throw it on on here andyou scan this code and it goes
here.
But being able to be verydecisive of what is the
objective and then when becauseit probably won't be on every
campaign, yeah, it'll be forcertain moments that really make
(29:59):
sense for the shopper.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
And I think that that's something that, with the
folks that I've been meetingwith recently at WMC even a few
weeks ago I was talking to ChadBernstein, who's one of the
industry leads over health andwellness, and his comment was
we've got to make sure, justlike Mr Sam talked about, the
shopper is always at the centerof what we do, and that we don't
(30:23):
sell tactics, we sell solutionsthat are shopper-centric.
And so I think the connected TVcan go back into that kind of
dynamic of meeting the shopperwhere they're at in a really
compelling manner.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's no surprise to anyone that
everyone's attention is nowfractionalized more than it's
ever been before.
Right, you have more choice onwhere you spend your, your
attention.
I think you know you and I weretalking earlier about you know,
your two screen experience,right, you have something going
on on TV Plus.
You've got your phone in yourhand as you're, you know.
You know we'll say you'reco-watching, right, co-watching,
(30:57):
right, co-watching theprogramming and paying attention
to all of the ads, I'm sure.
Right, because you are anamazing marketer.
But you know, in those scenariosnow you're starting to see some
of these ways in which you canexit the funnel, you know, into
conversion, right, or at leastthese attempts to do that,
(31:20):
whether it be a QR code or youtake your remote and you can add
something and send it to yourphone with certain networks,
like, I mean, I do that out ofcuriosity as a marketer and
really curious and interested.
Like, do you feel that othersare doing that as well?
Is this just kind of a ruse?
I don't want to say a ruse, butis this really just a way like,
(31:40):
oh, this is a top-of-the-funnelopportunity awareness, but
guess what?
You can also sell something atthe same time, so we get to
eject out of the funnel at adifferent part, right?
So I'm just curious on whatyour point of view is on, really
, on the part of how do youtransact or how you convert with
(32:01):
these, when really, if you everlooked at a commercial before,
it was always about awareness,telling the story, trying to
brand, lift, etc.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Now we're giving these exit strategies yeah, well
, first off, we got to give amoment to whoever the PR person
is for QR codes.
Because, they came, then theywent, they got ushered back in
during COVID and now they areback in full force.
Don't call it a comeback.
(32:30):
It's a comeback of the year QRcodes, but I think you know, as
you were referencing, I justlove to look at human behavior.
Yeah, me too, I think humanbehavior is in watching my kids,
watching my spouse watching,like, observing myself and my
own behavior.
And this is a confession,real-world confession here of
(32:53):
like, most of the time whenthere is something on the TV, I
am primarily looking at my phonefirst, yeah, and so I think
that could be really interestingas a 2.0 of connected TV, of
will they ever be able to tellthat, hey, I'm watching this
screen, I also have, I'm in thishousehold and I'm on this
(33:14):
device.
Is there a way to marry thosesimultaneously?
Maybe a little freaky for some,but I think the capability can
be there to achieve that, but Ido think it's one of those.
Now, it's not every commercialis shoppable, but I do think
it's going to get to a placewhere everyone starts to do it
(33:36):
and go.
At what point is that contentthat compelling?
That I'm going to get to aplace where everyone starts to
do it right, go like, at whatpoint is that content that
compelling?
right that you're going to stopeverything that I'm going to
stop everything else I'm doingto scan that to now I think, if
it's like, let's say, there's apromotion, yeah, absolutely
promotion like I can save adollar off.
I think promotion, that couldbe a huge unlock.
I think sweepstakes like hey,enter to win.
(34:00):
Oh, I watch this.
Oh, I can enter a window tripto hawaii from you know, sun
made, yeah, a brand, theincentive has to overcome the
friction totally right.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And so if the, if the in the formula right, if the
incentive is strong enough, thenyou will get people to to do it
right.
And I mean that you see that inin any situation.
You have a, you have a displayin store that's talking about a
sweepstake, it's if it's easyfor someone to sign up, then
they will do it.
(34:31):
If the, if the value of theprize is a million, you put a,
you put a end cap or you put adisplay, a display in a store
that says you can win a milliondollars, I guarantee you're
going to get a lot of entriesright.
I mean, it's just becausethat's, you know, that equation,
that value equation for timeversus effort, leans towards.
(34:51):
I'll put in the effort,absolutely.
Yeah, I think you know.
I do think, like connected TV,like anything, to your point, it
depends on what you're tryingto achieve and what you're
trying to do.
You're trying to get eyeballs,you're trying to get attention.
Your audience is on thatspecific.
You know programming, you knowyou may be an underdeveloped
brand or a new product andyou're trying to bring in a
(35:13):
market.
And you've got to do education.
I think there is definitely alot of opportunity and I do
think there is more to thinkingabout.
How do you, what doesconversion really look like?
Right, and I think also themeasurement side of things
aren't really well developed aswell, and at that stage I mean,
I'm sure you know a lot ofreally smart retailers are
(35:35):
figuring that out.
So I'm not saying that it won'tever, ever get there, but I
think that also, when you lookat how much it's going to cost
to do this and what themeasurement and value you get
out of it, if you're not lookingat things holistically, it may
not look like the best decisionevery single time for sure.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
Yeah Well, and you saw, even last night it was the
start of the NFL season on.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
NBC.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
And you know, with the partnership with
NBCUniversal and Walmart and theshopability of now going,
you're now giving like as aWalmart marketer or even as a
brand team that really needs towin there.
I now have the ability to showup in major live sports with a
commerce activity which I didn'tpreviously have access to.
It's a new lever right, and soI think you know people have
(36:25):
asked this like well, whatshould I do?
How should I think about this?
You should try it, test it,test and learn, see how it works
.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
You know, you never.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I think sometimes it's easy to sit behind a mic or
a table and go, oh, ultimatums.
It either is horrible or it'sthe best thing ever, and I think
again, it's situational.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
But nobody likes the, it depends Brad.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Nobody likes it, depends Hard maybe on that.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
But I mean, I think it's smart with sports, right?
Because and I don't have thenumbers in front of me, but
sports definitely is somethingthat everyone watches.
At the same time, you know, youget huge audiences for live
sporting events.
That's why there's been so muchinvestment in buying into a lot
of these leagues by differentstreaming services.
I think this year is going tobe really interesting, trying to
(37:11):
watch the NFL across all of thepartnerships that they've
signed on with, and so you knowit's going to.
You know, here's an idea Gocreate a website that actually
helps people find NFL games, ifthat doesn't already exist,
right.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yes, let's go Cool.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
All right, so let's move on to our third main topic
tonight and that's, you know,amazon.
It's just really interesting.
So, you know, again, you and Ihave been in this space quite a
while and we've kind of seen theevolution, right, and we've
looked at Amazon and we'velooked at Walmart and obviously
(37:45):
been very close to Walmart herein northwest Arkansas and
they've made a lot of moves inretail and commerce that you
know are very interesting to me.
You know they've been rivals,right.
You have these two behemoths intheir own, in their own right,
for a lot of reasons.
You know, amazon offersdifferent, some differences than
(38:07):
Walmart and Walmart offers somedifferences than Amazon.
But, like you know, with theannouncement of Amazon going to
same-day grocery delivery, youknow, in 1,000 cities and then
expanding to 2,300, and they'regrowing in their online grocery
and essentials right, which isan area that Walmart has owned
(38:30):
right, dominated, absolutelydominated right, dominated right
.
And then Walmart is really, youknow, adding marketplace.
You know marketplace sellers,their ad business is continuing
to to grow.
I think their ad revenue is up26% year-on-year, so continued
it.
So that was an area whereAmazon dominated right.
(38:51):
And so you have these twobehemoths and one is kind of
getting into a space that onewas really strong at, and then
vice versa.
And then you know, we justtalked about Connected TV.
Both have Connected TV,connected TV plays.
So, like, what are yourthoughts on, like, when you get
into this space where you havethese two big companies and one
(39:14):
is trying to add things that theother one is doing and, and you
know, is that really, is thatgood for the consumer, is that
good for our industry?
Like, what are your?
What are your?
What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 2 (39:27):
yeah, uh, I think competition in all areas of life
are good yeah, as a well, heused to be at nike right n it's,
it's it's.
Competition drives innovation.
Yeah, it does in every industry.
It does in every sector Um andso when there's no competition,
things get stagnant.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, right, cause there's no need to innovate.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Why?
Why do we need to roll out anew capability or, you know, a
new service?
And so I think that that's beenthe expansion.
Of both entities have benefitedfrom the other, and so one of
the things that's been reallyinteresting.
Going back to our very firstquestion about talent, there's
also been a lot ofcross-pollination of talent
(40:11):
Former Walmart folks that arenow over there, a lot of former.
Amazon folks that are now overat Walmart, because diversity of
thinking approaches solvingproblems through a different
lens, and I think that that's ifI've observed Walmart in the
last 36 months, specificallylooking at them first.
(40:32):
They're reinventing themselvesand I think it's not as
surprising for us that are hereand get a front row seat For the
national media they're a littleshocked.
Like wait, Gen Z is lovingWalmart as a brand more than
Target.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
What.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
There's no way they love Walmart more than Target.
But you start to go.
Well, think about what they'vedone, think about their ad
campaigns, think about theservices they provide.
Think about now millennials arehaving families and Walmart's
you know the place you can goshop for everything.
At a low, everyday, low price.
(41:11):
There's trust that they have,and so you know one of the
things that I'm kind of thepivot of Amazon.
They've been sitting here andthey're not stupid, they're
looking and going.
Man, walmart does groceryreally well, yeah, and they've
done it really well for a longtime, both in physical stores
and now with online pickup anddelivery and now same day
(41:33):
express delivery.
I mean, I can get stuff to myhouse in an hour.
Yeah, that's crazy.
I mean to think about three orfour years ago to go.
I can get my groceries I need.
I'm missing this item and I'mmaking this recipe.
I don't have to get out and Ican still do this Like that's,
that's pretty.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
That's such a good point too because I mean,
obviously, convenience is adriver, right, that's why people
pay, spend a lot of money onDoorDash, right, absolutely, you
could go to the McDonald's andget the food, or you could have
somebody bring it to you, right,and so you pay for that
convenience.
It's so interesting because Iremember back in the Peapod days
(42:11):
, right.
So Peapod was grocery deliveryTotally.
I think what was that likeearly 2000s-ish, 2005, 2006.
Yeah, right, but it could nevermake money.
But now, obviously, you thinkabout where we are and being
able to get things from Walmartin an hour or get them overnight
(42:33):
, depending on what shippingoption you select or if you have
a Walmart Plus membership orPrime.
It makes it so much moreconvenient.
You've got to think about thelogistics.
Logistics, I think everybodysees on the surface, oh well, of
course they can just mail it tome or they can just drop it by.
(42:55):
I mean, a guy drives up in mydriveway and puts it on my
doorstep, right.
But the logistics that go intothat and the planning and all of
that, right.
And so it's really interestingbecause Walmart is leveraging
their strength of their storesfor an advantage there, right,
amazon leverages their strengthon e-commerce delivery right
through their logistics channelfor their advantage.
(43:16):
There, right, amazon leveragestheir strength on e-commerce
delivery right through theirlogistics channel for their
advantage, and so now you'restarting to kind of see both of
those kind of coinciding, and Ithink it just sets the
expectation for shoppers that,no matter what I want, no matter
who I buy it from, to a certainextent not all things, but to a
(43:37):
certain extent I can get it asfast as an hour or so, and so
it's just interesting to see howthese two behemoths, as we said
earlier, have evolved.
And I would also say that I'vebeen very close to Walmart for
about 13 years, that I've beenvery close to Walmart for about
(43:59):
13 years, and I would say thelast three for Walmart have been
, by far and away, have reallygone off the charts as far as
the ability to execute muchfaster, much better than the
previous year.
So it's really been exciting tosee that happen.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Well, and the other thing when you look at the two,
I think Walmart did a reallygood job and it's evolved, and I
think great companies pivot,yeah, and they don't have ego in
the sense of like, no, we'reriding this thing.
Maybe some do.
But if you look at Prime youmentioned Walmart Plus Prime's
(44:36):
been around.
It's the bread and butter kindof like loyalty, self-love
platform of like, hey, I'm goingto be a Prime member, I get
access to Prime Video, I get youknow delivery at a certain
timetable that they've set asnow the industry kind of
expectation of two days or less.
And Walmart, when they launchedWalmart Plus to what it is now,
(44:58):
it looks a lot different.
You know they launched it withcertain benefits of what do
shoppers really want, and someof those things were right and
some of those things were maybea little off.
And I think that when I wasreading an article yesterday
that said you know the thingsthat they're starting to add on
to Walmart Plus fuel, you knowgirls in there yeah, like well,
(45:20):
gas prices are not, you know,unpredictable at best right, and
so, for families, paramount.
I get now get streaming, soit's like one less thing that
maybe I was doing yeah or using.
It's not just seeing WalmartPlus as a cost center to a
shopper.
It's seeing it as a valuecreator and it's not just oh yes
(45:40):
, we're giving them values, butwe're building long-term
relationship, and I think thatthat's something they're both
fine.
You talked about the attentionkind of economy.
I would also like to saythere's a bigger thing at play.
It's called the love economy oflike who you can't love,
everybody you know, or maybe youcan try to be nice to everybody
(46:01):
, but, like for retailers, thereis your kind of favorite.
Yeah, of like I'm in a pinch,what am I going to go to?
And I think they're trying toearn the shopper's trust through
brand love.
And I think walmart, with theireven recent ad campaign of like
kind of that, did you know?
right, I bet you didn't knowthis with goggins beautifully
(46:22):
shot, yeah, and it hits a humantruth.
Yeah, oh, I had no idea, and soit'll be really interesting get
our popcorn and watch this kindof continue to play out, and I
would imagine if we sit down inthis exact place in a year,
it'll be interesting to see whatwe're talking about, because I
think they're both innovating atthe speed of light right now
(46:42):
and ultimately, you know whowins the shopper right.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
That's ultimately who wins right, and that's in that
scenario.
So it's an exciting, really anexciting time, because I do
think, to a certain extent, bothare playing on a level field in
certain areas, both havestrengths, both have
opportunities and I thinkthey're really trying to
maximize those opportunities andleveraging their strengths to
do so.
(47:06):
So it's really going to beinteresting to see.
But, like I said before, we'regoing to win.
Yeah, we are definitely goingto win.
All right, we're ready now tomove on to game time.
Game time Are you ready for agame, brad, I love games.
Would you like to play a game?
Yes, all right, we're going toplay a game.
It's called Vibe Check and it'sreally simple.
(47:27):
I'm going to throw out astatement and you give me your
first gut reaction right, allright, are you ready?
Let's go.
Okay, let's do it.
All right, so don't overthinkit.
First statement AI will solveretail media resourcing
challenges.
What's your gut say?
Speaker 2 (47:44):
No no.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Really.
Speaker 2 (47:48):
You sure it's hard.
Now what will?
Oh man, that's even a harderone.
I think it's getting people ina room with diverse perspectives
.
I'm going to go back to that oflike that, want to seek to
understand and be curious andare willing to test and learn to
get to the right fit.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah, I cheated there .
I wasn't supposed to ask you afollow-up question.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
It's okay, my bad, we'll play the game.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Connected TV will be the most important retail media
channel within five years no, no.
Speaker 2 (48:22):
I mean, I think it's going to be an important one.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
I don't think it's going to be the most important
one I guess it also depends onwhose perspective it is right,
is it so?
Um, all right, so all right.
Here's another one.
Retail media is just shoppermarketing with a new name.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
No, there's a trend.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
It's no.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Yeah, I mean I'm just giving you all the no's, I mean
I think retail media iscombining the worlds of media
with creative practices that areretail-centric, right for the
shopper of the target.
Guest versus the Kroger shopperversus the public shopper are
very different, and so it's.
I think shopper marketing is apart of retail media.
They are not synonymous withone another.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah, I mean, shopper marketing has the whole
psychology behind it, right, and?
And so the shopper psychology,that's a key piece of shopper
marketing and, yes, it plays arole in retail media, for sure,
but it's not.
It's not the whole thing,absolutely in retail media, for
sure, but it's not the wholething, absolutely.
All right, this holiday, thisholiday season coming up, more
sales will happen via agenticshopping versus TikTok shops.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Oh, what's your gut say I'm going to stay with
TikTok because my you know,having friends that have
teenagers and the consumingpower of the young people, I
don't think that that's goinganywhere.
I think it's going to continueto expand.
I think there was someuncertainty last year with the
(49:53):
political situation aroundTikTok.
I think that has pretty muchbeen dealt with and it's not
going to be an issue.
Yeah talk.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I think that has pretty much been dealt with and
it's not going to be an issue.
Yeah for it.
So I do think agentic shoppingis it's.
It's going to be a key timeperiod for agentic shopping
absolutely as well.
So we'll see we'll see more.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
We'll see how that plays.
January will tell the tell yes.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, there will probably be a million podcasts
that will talk about agenticshopping over the retail, retail
or the holiday season.
For sure, all right, dunkin' isbetter than Starbucks.
No, no, come on, I know yourcompany is from Boston.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
But, as we, no one probably knows this, but I don't
even know if you know this butnot only did I start my career
at Nike, but I spent three yearsworking at Starbucks in college
down in Fayetteville when therewas one Starbucks in Northwest
Arkansas, and I actually met mywife in the Starbucks drive-thru
.
So I am not only a Nike formerNike guy, but I am a partner
(50:52):
from Starbucks.
So I have a loyalty to them and, on a total side note, excited
to where that company's going.
I think they've got greatleadership right now as a
stockholder and excited to seewhere they go.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yeah, don't interpret that as financial advice.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Yep, that is not investing advice, that's just as
a former partner, all right,and finally, Taylor Swift's
engagement to Travis Kelsey isthe event of the year.
Yes, oh, I did a pivot as a dadof three daughters and a wife.
(51:29):
You know, having a wife wholoves Taylor Swift, I not only
think it might be the event ofthe year, but I think I'm going
to be a little more bold.
I think Taylor Swift could bethe most successful CMO out
there.
I think she is a brilliantmarketer, brand storyteller.
Speaker 1 (51:46):
Or has somebody that works for her.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Everything she's doing or the people she's
surrounding herself with areabsolutely masterful at
capturing attention of the world.
So there you go Awesome.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
That's a great way to wrap it up.
You know, it would be amazingif that wedding was televised.
It would be like probably themost watched anything.
It would probably rival, youknow, the Royals getting married
and so forth.
You know, even in today's dayof of, you know, this
(52:17):
fractionalized attentiontimeframe that we have now, um,
so, yeah, well, a great way togreat way to go out.
All right, party people, it istime to wrap this one up.
Um, I hope you've enjoyed thevibes in the show today.
So I want to huge thank you toBrad for sharing his thoughts,
his vibes, his love with ustoday.
(52:38):
Brad, do you have any lastwords?
No, I just think that Anythingyou'd like to plug.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah, you know the industry is evolving so rapidly
and so I'm excited I'll be outat Grocery Shop where I think a
lot of folks will be gatheringout in Las Vegas here at the end
of September, beginning ofOctober.
And the thing about that showthat's so cool is not just the
content, it's the people.
This industry is special, notbecause of the technology, but
(53:07):
because of the humans that workfor these technologies and
develop them.
And so excited to be withpeople and see what that looks
like.
And we're actually at breaktime.
We're going to be gatheringgreat humans in Northwest
Arkansas October 7th at therecord, to talk about
partnership awesome, what's thepower of it like to do all this
stuff within retail media.
It takes a village, it does.
(53:28):
You can't do it in isolation.
And so excited to be with moregreat people trying to have
these conversations continue anddiscuss what the future of that
looks like.
Speaker 1 (53:37):
Yeah, awesome, that sounds great.
Yeah, I hope to be around forsome of those things, so you'll
get an invite, thank you.
Thanks, man.
Will you come back to RetailMedia Vibes?
Would you come back to the show?
And there's really only oneanswer, because I'll edit it.
So, yes, okay, all right.
So, yes, okay, all right.
No, I appreciate that, allright.
So if you have any thoughts orquestions or comments about
(54:00):
Retail Media Vibes, you can goahead and hit me up at
retailmediavibes at gmailcom.
Don't forget to like, subscribe.
Hit the bell for notificationson the podcast.
That helps out a lot, maybe.
Leave a comment, leave a review.
I want to thank everybody somuch for listening and, as
always, I will, I promise.
I promise to do better nexttime.
And that's it.
Bv out, peace.
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