October 11, 2025 • 50 mins
Ever wish retail media dashboards told the real story? We pull back the curtain on how to measure what actually matters, not just what’s easy to count. Brandon welcomes Cassie Murray to unpack the messy truth about ROAS, why incrementality is a worthy but difficult North Star, and how inventory, placement, and profitability can quietly decide your campaign’s fate long before a single impression is served.
We get practical about omnichannel reality: when a shelf holds four facings and the truck comes once a week, “always-on” search might be the wrong answer. Cassie shares how to set objectives first, defend base, recruit new-to-brand, or drive profitable volume, then choose metrics that ladder up without chasing vanity numbers. We also explore modeling, cross-retailer context, and the pressure cooker of reporting, where a dip in CTR sparks panic, even when the plan is working.
From there, we head into marketplaces, the proving ground for challenger brands and a minefield when compliance slips. Learn why Walmart’s tighter standards help shoppers and brand equity, how small brands can use marketplace momentum to earn shelf space, and how big brands can extend assortments without losing control. We also break down Walmart’s road tour as smart retailtainment that builds community, and we test the potential of Amazon Lens as visual search moves from novelty to utility.
Finally, we talk about Target. The curated magic that once fueled three-hour trips has dulled as discretionary budgets shrink and Walmart’s style game improves. What would it take for Target to be unapologetically itself again, with cleaner stores, tighter curation, reliable availability, and trend-right private label that earns the trip? If you care about measurement, marketplaces, and the evolving store experience, this one brings clarity you can act on today.
If this sparked new ideas or challenged your playbook, subscribe, share with a colleague, and leave a review. What metric do you trust most right now?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:08):
What's up, party people?
BV here for another episode ofRetail Media Vibes.
We're episode three.
Retail Media Vibes is a doingbusiness in Bentonville podcast,
and we are being recorded atPodcast Video Studios in Rogers,
Arkansas.
Today I have my guest, CassieMurray, and we'll be going
through uh and chatting todayabout measurement and retail,
(00:31):
what really matters,understanding e-commerce
marketplaces, and what happenedto Target's mojo.
So if you ever want to get apodcast recorded, I highly
recommend Podcast Video Studioshere in Rogers.
They are a professional team andthey take care of all the work
that you probably don't want todo to create a podcast.
And you can just come in andfocus on your content just like
(00:52):
I do every single time.
So come check them out here inRogers.
All right, so now on with theshow.
So we're gonna start off meetingwith our guest today and do a
little vibe chat with CassieMurray.
Hi, Cassie.
How are you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
Hello, Brandon.
I am doing great.
SPEAKER_02 (01:08):
Awesome.
Well, um excited to have you on.
Um, you know, we've been talkinga little bit about having you on
the podcast for a while, so I'mreally excited that we actually
made the podcast happen andactually have you on the
podcast.
So love to get to know you.
I know you a bit, but obviouslywe want our audience to get to
know you a bit as well.
And so why don't you you knowshare a little bit about your
(01:29):
background and ask a few morequestions?
SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
Yeah.
Um I have kind of made it apoint in my career to stay on
the front side of digital andomnicommerce transformation as
it impacts more of the shoppermarketing side.
And so my path has been brand,it's been independent media
companies, was with Triad youknow early on in my career and
even retailtainment.
SPEAKER_02 (01:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Um what what really gets youexcited about retail, right?
So this retail media vibes,you've got that background in
retail.
Like what what are the thingsthat get you excited about it?
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
I love that what we are talking about today will be
outdated likely by this timenext year.
Yeah.
And so I know that's not foreverybody, but I love the change
because it's a constantchallenge.
We're always something new andfresh to pay attention to.
SPEAKER_02 (02:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's you know, one of thereasons why I started this
podcast is because the change ofof retail, retail media, what
the definition of retail mediais, and you know, there's such a
great community of people whowork in this space that I just
love, and so it's it was it wasgreat to be able to start the
podcast.
Um so let me kind of give you alittle bit of an icebreaker
(02:39):
question.
So uh if you had a virtual AIassistant, think about that for
a second, somebody somesomething, somebody, I guess
that could do three things foryou, what would those first
three things you would ask themto do?
SPEAKER_00 (02:55):
And this is where with AI I love it, but what I
really want done is my laundry.
I want my floors cleaned, I wantthe beds cleaned.
You want a robot, you don't wantan AI robot.
I want I want an AI robot.
But until then, um I kind ofstarted playing around with all
the shortcut automations andNFCs.
And so I like being able to liketap in if we need more dog food,
(03:16):
like when the dog food's out,you can and it sends a shortcut
and it will send a text and thenadd to list.
Sometimes it doesn't work.
So, like, I mean with anytechnology, we're still doing
that.
But I think more of like thevirtual assistant stuff, like
scheduling doctor's appointment,like the mundane, like just
boring things is what I wouldhand over more readily.
SPEAKER_02 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you know, for me, like youknow, thinking about my an AI
assistant, I think it's one ofthose things that keeps me on
track, right?
So I've always thought of AI asit should be more of a push than
a pull, right?
So obviously there's some sortof stimulus and you get back a
response.
I would love an AI that'd say,hey, you know what, you've got a
meeting, a big meeting in aweek.
(03:57):
You should really start on thatpresentation now, right?
So you're not waiting till lastminute or you get distracted
with other things.
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
Or even finding like efficiencies in your schedule
and being like, hey, I know onThursday you were needing to
pick up the dry cleaning, butyou'll be over there Wednesday.
Right.
And it like moves it in yourschedule so that it like saves
you time and energy, like thatpart, the efficiency and the
optimization part, if they couldjust do that for me, if like
instead of me going, oh dang it,I forgot to do that, or man, now
(04:25):
I've got to drive completelyacross town for just one thing.
And I was just over hereyesterday.
Like if it could tell that I waslike in downtown Bentonville,
right?
Be like, hey, you've beenmeaning to stop by the T and
Spice shop.
SPEAKER_02 (04:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
You know, it would remind me while I'm down there
because I don't always remember.
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
Yeah, yeah.
And it's you know, it I thinkwe're on that path to getting
there because of the way thatyou know, apps and agents will
be able to communicate behindthe scenes and you know get
better at doing those thosethings, at least those reminders
and those pushes.
Um, so yeah, I think I mean thatI think everybody could benefit
from that.
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:00):
Yeah, cool.
All right, Cassie.
Well, thank you, thanks forthat.
Let's um now go into our quickhit topic.
So a little topical banter,right?
That's why we're here to talkabout some things that are
happening out there in retailmedia and and marketing.
Um, so the first one is AmazonLens.
So they've added a visualsearch, a live visual search.
(05:20):
So I think you would there wasalways that opportunity to take
a picture of something and sendit in and get back a response.
Now it's live, right?
So you can open up the camera,it's live streaming, it'll pick
up something in a room.
There'll be a swipable carouselof products.
It's integrated with their AI,Rufus, and you can query about
you know about the productdirectly within that, within
(05:42):
that stream.
Um, and so it really is likekind of a new opportunity to you
know look at and find productsthat are in the physical
environment and bring themobviously into e-commerce and
obviously ask questions about itand and and and so forth.
So, you know, on one hand, I cansee the benefit of that, but to
be honest, like I've neverreally used Visual Search too
(06:03):
much personally, uh for shoppingpurposes, especially.
I mean, I might do somethingwith a bug.
Like I what what the heck kindof bug is this or a plant,
right?
But I've never done thattypically with shopping.
I mean, what what's yourimpression of like where that
could be beneficial and wouldthat be something you you would
use?
SPEAKER_00 (06:21):
So I um kind of was playing around with it when we
were talking about this podcastbecause I hadn't used it really
and I knew it was there, but Ihadn't had a reason to use it.
Right.
Um but very similar to you, Iuse Google Lens a lot for like
if we're out thrifting and thenthere's some like random piece.
I wanted like, what is this?
And you know, is it cool?
Or a bug, you know, things likethat.
(06:42):
But I use it, I also use it forpricing to see like where
everything's being sold and forwhat price.
And so I think Amazon, it'sgonna be interesting because I
actually took it into a storewith me and would scan and see
what the price was on Amazon orif they at least had something
comparable because it does bringup like items, not just exact
matches.
And so it could create a morecompetitive space.
(07:06):
I mean, we know shoppers arealready doing it on their
phones, like when they're instores, it's not uncommon for
somebody to price check largeritems.
But if it's something you needshipped and maybe, I don't know,
toilet paper or something likenot that an instant need or like
that you're just looking at andlike maybe, oh, maybe Amazon has
it cheaper.
And right depending on you knowtheir systems, because you know
they're such a closed loopsystem with all of their media,
(07:28):
could they know that you'reabout to purchase and you know
suggest that you price checkwhile you're out shopping?
Like will it get to that point?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (07:35):
I mean, well, knowing Amazon, knowing Amazon,
they're probably monitoring yourlocation.
They may know what store you'rein, right?
And so they're using that dataas you're using that live search
to inform their systems in orderto, you know, for whatever
reason, right?
You know, make a better productselection, hit you with ads, you
know, whatever they they theymight do that for.
SPEAKER_00 (07:57):
Oh, I think we'll see.
Like I said, in the advertisingand maybe even potentially in
social, you know, they integrateand listen.
So like, you know, if people arebuying those media or those
audiences, be like, oh, somebodythat has been scanning a lot of
this aesthetic type item, and sothey know that they could target
those people.
I always tell people whenpeople, you know, they go on the
government rants about, oh, thegovernment's tracking me.
I'm like, it is not.
I mean, they are maybe, but it'sme.
(08:18):
It's people like me, it'smarketers.
SPEAKER_02 (08:19):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
We are tracking you guys on a scary, scary level
sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (08:23):
I feel a little bad about that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
I do sometimes.
Just a little just a little bit.
Sometimes.
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (08:27):
All right, let's move on to our next quick hit.
So Walmart is, you know, Walmarttalks has talked a lot about
retailtainment over the years,right?
And that was one of the areasthat you said you've enjoyed
quite a bit.
Uh so Walmart is taking the ideafrom a TikTok FYP or for you
page and bringing it to lifethrough a road tour, right?
(08:48):
So they're gonna havesemi-trucks that are traveling
around to different events indifferent locations, not just
Walmart parking lots, but otherlocations.
And so there a lot of these arecentered around Gen Z interests.
There's K-pop, retro gaming,there's a rodeo truck, there's a
nature truck, and there's evenone for like workout,
post-post-workout, andself-self-care.
(09:09):
So it's it's it's really tryingto bring you know what people
interact with on screens andtrying to bring it into real
life.
So you've got this, this, thistransition of social media to
the physical environment.
And so, you know, do these doyou feel like like
retailtainment and things likethis and what Walmart is doing
with FYP, do you feel like itreally makes a difference?
(09:32):
Is it you know, is it reallybring shoppers to retail?
Does it really build brands?
Like what are your thoughtsaround you know an activity like
this?
SPEAKER_00 (09:41):
So I will say I love a good retailtainment program.
To your point, I started in thatspace.
Um, but retail the way thatthey're doing these FYP, if that
is the quintessential definitionof what Omni is and what Omni
has become, because you aretaking a digital experience or
something that has happened in awhole other place and you are
taking it to where you know yourshoppers are.
(10:02):
So you're bringing it to a pointof intersection.
And so by taking these trucks,these Walmart trucks to some of
these events, I think that'sgoing to resonate really well
with the shopper.
Sometimes they can fall flatwhen you just have them at the
Walmart parking lot.
And if you don't do enoughmarketing behind it or don't
understand like the becausethere can be several Walmarts in
a certain area, which one isactually the best one that you
(10:22):
need to be at?
Right.
And so I think you know,sometimes we oversimplify the
retailtainment approach, butreally if you're approaching it
with an omni-perspective, andbecause I mean, good, bad, or
indifferent, most of our youththey spend a ridiculous amount
of time on screen.
Hell, I spend a ridiculousamount of time on screens now.
So while none of those are mything, but I do have kids that
(10:43):
are in this range, and that waskind of something I was thinking
about.
I was like, did they take theopportunity to target the
parents that they can identifythat have children in this
space?
I have one that the K-pop stuff,if it was here, he would love to
go.
Right.
But I haven't necessarily beentargeted with anything yet.
And so I think there's alsothat, like, while Gen Z like
they're still young enough inthat kind of section that the
(11:04):
older ones, yeah, they'rethey're in college, they're like
they're buying power, all ofthat.
But there's a whole subset ofthat, what, 12, I think, is
probably the youngest in that umbracket we're looking at.
Yeah, they are not drivingthemselves to Walmart.
So while like part of theconcern, I think people are
like, oh, it's not going toresonate with the core Walmart
shopper.
Well, it's not meant to resonatewith the core Walmart shopper,
it's meant to be engaging sothat they want to come and to
(11:25):
bring a new shopper into thestore that is very heavily
screen dependent.
SPEAKER_02 (11:29):
Yeah.
Like Yeah, and what I like aboutit too is it's it's brand
building, but it's alsocommunity building, right?
And so the community usuallyrallies around these type of
events, right?
And so, you know, whether it's aSaturday morning at a Walmart or
or you know, if a Fridayafternoon at a park or you know,
wherever the trucks are going,and there's a whole schedule on
Walmart's uh Walmart's sidearound this on where they're
(11:51):
gonna be, you know, it it doesbring people, you know, it does
bring people together, it bringspeople to these events and gives
families an opportunity to youknow have a little fun, you
know, um with their with theirkids or or or even young adults,
you know, some they're lookingfor something, something to do.
And you know, Walmart is behindit.
And so I feel like it's a great,it's a great opportunity for the
brand.
(12:12):
You know, is it gonna change theworld?
Is it gonna change no, but Ithink it's it's a lot of these
little things that add up overtime.
SPEAKER_00 (12:18):
And I think that's important also is like when
especially when we kind of hiton measurement later on in this
section, like it's brandbuilding, but they are hard to
generate a profitable returnbecause of the expense that goes
into creating the assets, thethe fuel, the travel time, the
just the people, all thedifferent certifications and
insurances that you have to do.
(12:38):
Like so brand building, but youneed to look at it from what it
is and not necessarily from justa straight ROAS perspective.
There is going to be a more longtail opportunity on those than
an immediate we just saw a 7%lift at store XYZ, you know,
because we had the truck there.
Like that's hopefully that isnot the expectation, and they
(12:58):
will appreciate it for what itis.
SPEAKER_02 (13:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Cool.
All right, so the last quick hitwe have McDonald's, right?
Not not typically a retailmedia, but for bear with me for
a second.
Um I'm trying, I'm not gonnarant, I promise.
But McDonald's just recentlybrought back extra value meals.
Um I think I remember whenMcDonald's started extra value
(13:23):
meals.
I think at that time extra valuemeals were maybe like$2.99.
Right.
Extra value meals are eightdollars, Cassie.
Eight dollars.
Like that, you know, I know themeals themselves are like twelve
ish, twelve to thirteen dollars,I think, now in in a lot of
ways.
But eight dollars, I mean that'sthat's quite quite high.
SPEAKER_00 (13:45):
I feel like it's a much bigger like those those two
numbers are way closer togetherthan they used to be too, right?
Like because the value mill wastwo, three dollars, and back
then a full meal was like, youknow, probably around ten still,
maybe eight to ten.
But that's a significant savingsgap.
But now we're going eight to youknow, eight to twelve, we're
shortening that, you know,space, and so it's not really a
(14:06):
value.
SPEAKER_02 (14:07):
Yeah.
Do you think like other otherQSR uh restaurants are also
going to you know amplify theirvalue menu, so to speak, you
know, as as you know, there arequestions of whether or not
what's happening with theeconomy and you know, economic
headwinds, as I like to say.
Economic headwinds.
But like the when when thefinancial time financial and
(14:30):
economic times get a little bittough, brands start to talk more
about value.
Right.
So they can kind of maintain aprice point that's reasonable,
but you're getting more for yourmoney.
So you know value is obviously akey term.
You think this will start atrend of price wars of value
meals across the QSR landscape?
SPEAKER_00 (14:48):
I sure hope so.
SPEAKER_02 (14:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
Like, I mean, because even I know Sonic has
started with like uh, you know,like a little two to three
dollar subset menu in the app,and Taco Bell has theirs, and
I've started noticing um,because I get the Sonic push
notifications that they've beenpushing a lot more, it feels
like lately than they havehistorically.
Um but yeah, all of us are gonnabe facing the same problem that
QSR is.
It's it's going to become ashare of dollar conversation.
(15:11):
Right.
And so you have to establish thevalue, you know, the QSR is
therefore of convenience, andconvenience is key right now.
So they'll probably do fine.
But yeah, I would I hope theydo.
I want to see some like goodsocial media wars with like
Burger King talking, you know,smack to Wendy's, talking smack
up McDonald's about their valuemeal, and it's not actually a
value.
SPEAKER_02 (15:32):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
It's always good entertainment.
SPEAKER_02 (15:34):
Yeah, yeah.
We'll see.
We'll see how that goes.
And get your Big Mac meal for$8and your sausage McMuffin with
egg milk for five.
SPEAKER_00 (15:43):
I'm just I'm gonna do a happy meal, I guess, and
get this.
I get a toy with it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
That could be a whole other topic for another
day, those those promotions andincentives.
All right.
So all right, so that was thequick hits.
So now let's get into ourbigger, meatier, I guess,
topics.
I mean, we just talked abouthamburgers, so I guess that's a
a good transition, right?
Um, so top our first topic,we're gonna talk about
(16:09):
measurement and retail and whatreally matters.
And I we could probably do awhole podcast just on this
because I think it's such a hottopic in retail, right?
And so whenever the conversationin retail comes up, there's it
it's there's just this groanaround measurement, right?
It's like, well, you know, thatwe can measure this, we can't
(16:30):
measure that, the numbers that Isee don't reflect my sales.
Um, you know, every retailer hastheir own measurement criteria,
KPIs aren't aren't the same,numbers don't line up, you know,
and brands, you know, brandsthat are controlling more of the
retail media budgets, you know,they want to see results that
(16:50):
you know before they releasefunds, right?
And so it's really becoming a abit more challenging, really,
you know, in the conversationsthat that we're having.
You know, it's clear thatincrementality is one that is a
a clear North Star thateverybody really wants to see,
is you know, did my marketing ordid my media actually drive
(17:11):
incremental sales, not justcapture people who would have
bought already?
But you know, it's it's hard,it's hard to measure, right?
Because you know, last pointattribution, last click, you
know, that there's yeah, all ofthese things actually are coming
coming together.
So, you know, from yourperspective, and you're
definitely well more way moreversed on on measurement and
(17:31):
your experiences than I am, butlike what is your perspective on
the value of measurement, wherewhere measurement is headed, you
know, and also consideringonline versus in-store, because
you know, we you mentionedomnichannel earlier.
We're you know these areomnichannel shoppers, they're
shopping online, they'reshopping in store.
It's all about convenience.
How do we measure to make surethat our media or marketing
(17:54):
activities are actually drivingthe bottom line?
SPEAKER_00 (17:57):
Yeah.
And I mean to your point, thereis uh 80% of grocery shopping st
or 70 to 80 percent stillhappens in store.
Right.
So that is a huge component ofthis, especially with your
Walmarts, your Costco's, yourSAMS, your Kroger's, all of
those, because they they arebrick and mortars first and
foremost, and you know, but theyneed to be able to engage that
(18:18):
person in a digital experience.
Even if the shopper isn'tnecessarily a digital shopper in
that ecosystem, you're stilltrying to impact that in-store
shopping behavior.
And can I just can we get rid ofROAS?
SPEAKER_02 (18:30):
ROAS is the best metric.
SPEAKER_00 (18:32):
I don't know how many conversations I've had over
the years.
Okay.
And ro and ROAS used to be, Imean, we didn't have much more,
like we would look at ROASgoals, you know, it was better
than click-through rate andimpressions, but it still
doesn't tell, it just tracks thenumber of sales that happened
during the period that yourmedia ran.
And um in that space, like it'sjust it's incomplete.
(18:55):
And even on the incremental sideof it, um, understanding that
incremental value can be verydifficult.
I will say I don't think there'sa one end-all-be-all solution.
I have been fortunate to be ableto partner with, I have
partnered with a lot ofdifferent data, you know, the
IRIs, the ANSAs, the Nielsen's,the, you know, um most recently
I'd onboarded a newer companycalled Peak, and they were using
(19:16):
AI modeling to kind of flattenout all of those other things
that happen in a market, youknow, weather trends and things
like that, um, but also to lookat it from a cross-retailer
perspective, because that is theother big issue with this is
Walmart's reporting is not goingto be the same as Kroger's
reporting.
And even the impact of somethinglike search, you know, you're
(19:37):
not Kroger could be driving moreincrementality in your search,
but have a lower ROAS justbecause they don't have the
space to grow like Walmart does.
And so kind of levelizing thatplaying field, even for me in
that space, um, I was with freshand frozen items at Dollar
General.
They only get a truck once aweek.
(19:58):
So if you run through theproduct, and they also have very
limited shelf space for thatproduct.
So you might get four items on ashelf at a time, but if you're
running promotions and thingslike that, well, once you run
through that inventory, likethere's not a much opportunity
for incrementality.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
That's that's such a great point because I think
there are always aspects to youknow sales that go beyond just
media on shelf on shelfavailability is an important
part, right?
Right.
And it just makes so much sense.
So, yeah, in that example, and Ihad no idea, like you only get
one truck a week.
Yeah, if you run through yourfive or six items on the shelf,
(20:36):
yeah, no matter how much mediayou run, you're not going to
increase your sales, right?
You probably should stop mediaat that point, right?
Depending on what the promotionis, right?
SPEAKER_00 (20:43):
And then depending on how well the inventory is
tracked, you may not know whatyour true inventory is,
especially on smaller items thatare easily handheld, like
individual wrapped ice cream, um20-ounce single serves.
I've been on two brands that wehad that problem, and then those
things like to walk away a lot.
So your inventory is always off.
(21:04):
Um but that even goes into thewhole measurement conversation.
And you can even look atmeasurement from an opportunity
of declining, like if you arefacing hemorrhaging or rapidly
declining sales, maybe youdidn't drive any incrementality,
but did you slow the hemorrhage?
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Like did you stop, or was there a competitor coming
in?
Did you manage to stop losingshare?
You know, there's so many otherfactors to it that need to be
considered and not just row asand not just incrementality,
right?
Because you may not.
But in that incrementalityconversation with Dollar
General, it gives you theopportunity to go back on the
sales side and say, hey, we arelooking at running some kind of
(21:40):
pricing promotion, blah, blah,blah to support your business,
but we need incrementalplacement.
How do we get that for this timeframe?
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:47):
And the same conversation with Walmart.
You know, we would intentionallyramp up sales during that time
if we were getting in cap orfeature placement because we had
more inventory that we couldmove.
Right.
You know, Walmart, we didn'tnecessarily have the inventory
issues like Dollar General, butit takes into consideration.
And then also comparing DollarGeneral spend directly to a
Walmart spend and even digitalmedia to digital media, like
(22:08):
you're talking very differentshoppers, very different
ecosystems.
Like it's it's not apples toapples.
SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
Yeah, it's super complex, super complicated.
I think, you know, and I I'vetalked about this on other
podcasts, is like theexpectation of your retail media
strategist, you know,considering omnichannel, uh,
considering all the retailers,knowing all the nuances, is very
i it's difficult, right?
And it's it's it's superchallenging.
I I think you know, from from myperspective and what I've seen,
(22:38):
it's like, you know, let's beclear on what the objective is,
right?
So are are we trying to defendour position?
Are we trying to gainincrementality?
Really be realistic of who theretailer is and what you're
trying to achieve.
I think that will go a long way.
And then understand, like, youknow, because I've been in
conversations where you knowmeasurement perfection is
(22:59):
expected when measurementperfection does not exist.
You know, it does not exist.
It does not exist, right?
And so some brands don't likemodeling, right?
They don't want you to model,they want to use a different
methodology, and there's severaldifferent methodologies to get
there.
But you know, it it is it isinteresting how you know
measurement is such a key role,and I think clarity up front
(23:22):
doesn't all it isn't done comyou know, it doesn't isn't done
all the time, right?
It's just you know, having thatclarity is so important.
SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
Even when you have clarity up front, I have caught
myself, I mean, my plans, I setthe KPIs, and then I start
seeing the results, and it'ssomething like, I don't know, a
a metric that I'm used to seeingit be higher.
SPEAKER_01 (23:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
And it really doesn't matter to the what we're
looking at, but it does take youa moment to like stop yourself
and go, that doesn't matterright now.
It is technically doing what wewant it to do.
SPEAKER_01 (23:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
But you know, when you are so trained to look at
certain metrics or like aclick-through rate that
decreases, like, or you know,something like that that we
we've always traditionallylooked at, it you almost have to
retrain yourself too to stop andgo, wait a second, what is our
true goal?
Right.
What is the KPI?
So what if this other numberisn't doing this because that's
not the goal of this number forthis time?
(24:12):
And I mean, and thencommunicating that with sales
and with your leadership, youknow, because that's always
coming back to that.
If your KPI was new to brandshoppers, okay, great.
We may not see as muchincremental lift as we would
have on a traditional programbecause we were solely focused
on new to brand shoppers.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
So that new to brand percent is really what's going
to matter to us more than thetotal IRO as.
SPEAKER_02 (24:37):
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think we get confusedsometimes on the difference
between a campaign objective anda media objective.
Yes.
The media jet objective shouldsupport the campaign objective,
but they aren't one in the same99% of the time.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Aaron Powell Well, and usually there's multiple
tactics.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I mean, so you yeah, to holdthem all to that same and then
as long as it's funneling up andjust reminding yourself that
what the goal was.
SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
Aaron Powell Well, and being on the agency side, so
as I've been, and you've been onthe brand side, Cassie, so you
you you understand where I'mcoming from on this one, but
there's a lot of pressure whenwhen an agency is looking at the
numbers.
And to your point about why didthe click-through rate change,
even though that may not benecessarily the focus of the
(25:23):
campaign, right?
But it but it in the in themeeting, right, in the in the
report that we have to send overto a brand and say, hey,
something changed and everybodywants to optimize everything,
right?
Because we're in thisperformance media mindset across
the entire ecosystem, right?
And so it it adds that pressure,right?
(25:44):
Well, why did the click-throughrate go down 0.01%?
Well, I don't know.
What can we do to change that?
Why do we need to change it?
Yeah, why do we need to changeit?
And I think so.
I think you know, there isthere's you know the pressure on
the agency side, obviouslythere's pressure on the brand
side too, because the shoppermarketer that's looking at the
report has to report up tosomebody else, and there's
(26:04):
somebody who's asking them aquestion, right?
And so just from just myperspective, I think sometimes
we get too focused in on thenumbers.
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:13):
The detailed numbers, right?
Like when you're running acampaign, yes, there are KPIs
and KPIs are there for obviouslyvery specific reasons.
But what I've seen generally inin my career has been like when
you do a can't when you do acampaign with the right
communication strategy, right?
With the it's the right idea,the right communication, the
(26:33):
right media channels, workingtogether, you're gonna see good
results, right?
Right.
Whether or not and and I know Iunderstand why, right?
I understand everybody wants tojustify why things were spent
the way they were and make surethat we can repeat it again the
next time because everybodywants to get to a formulaic
result or formulaic process.
Oh, if I do this, this, and thisevery time I'm gonna get X
(26:55):
percent of improvement in sales.
That's not always the case,right?
And so I think sometimes I thinkwe use the numbers are just used
not necessarily improperly, butI think the emphasis that are
put on some of these numbers maynot necessarily always be the
right focal areas when you'vegot to look at the bigger
picture to really see what itcan because it's all of these
(27:17):
touch points that all add uptogether to really result in in
incrementality or improvement insales or defending a position or
whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Oh, and then you throw in profitability.
SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
Yeah, well.
SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
What does that actually mean?
And then you start having theprofitability conversations.
And I'll say I think the onething I learned was to get
really good about askingquestions of, you know, when
those asks were coming down andeven sitting down and saying,
okay, do we just want to movevolume or do we want to move
profitable volume?
And those two things do not gohand in hand usually.
And moving profitable volume isnot going to be the same as just
(27:59):
moving volume.
SPEAKER_02 (28:00):
Right.
You know, maybe you havesomething on a shelf that is,
you know, there's a changeover,right?
There's a new product and you'vegot to move product or you know,
product is getting close toexpiration, you've got to move
that.
So at that point you don'treally care if you're
profitable, you're just tryingto make space so the new product
can can come up, right?
And so like these are all of thethings that you know all kind of
come together and in figuringout, okay, you know, success,
(28:22):
measurement and success I thinkI think almost like success
really goes back to what you'retrying to achieve in your
campaign.
Right.
And then, you know, and then themeasurement are are some key key
key points, key metrics withinthat campaign that give you
indications.
Yeah.
Maybe not solely, but give youindications of how things are
(28:44):
going based upon levers you canpull.
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
Well, and even when you think about, you know, so
talking just full campaign on meand that structure, but then
when you go into just thatdigital experience and just that
e-commerce experience, you know,searches like, you know, and
they'll always tell you, oh, youshould be on 24 hours a day,
seven days a week, evergreen.
Uh my definition of evergreenhas always been a little bit
different.
We're on consistently.
SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (29:06):
May or may not be every, you know, all day, you
know, throw some day parting in,you know, because I've never
actually had a fully fundedbudget ever in my entire career.
So I'm used to being scrappy andI've been used to like, okay,
where where are these dollarsgoing to go most?
But even understanding that thate-commerce impact, so like a$22
return on ad spend on search,and even if you're you know, but
(29:29):
are you driving more digitalpenetration?
Because that's really how you'regonna show growth, unless your
in-store sales are raising atthe same rate of your online
sales.
But then you just need yourdigital penetration to not
decrease.
Yeah.
You know, and so again, likedifferent so many levers, right?
So many levers, so much to lookat, but just the differentiation
between like these things arenot the same.
(29:51):
They mean different things.
You know, that your omni, yourdigital percentage, while that
number might be great, is stillonly 15 to 25 percent.
of your total sales.
Walmart's pushing everybody toget to 30% right now.
Some categories, I don't knowhow they'll ever, you know, they
might get there eventually.
Right.
But, you know, it is what it is.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:11):
Well I'm glad we were able to figure out
measurement in retail media.
So anytime you ever havequestions, I mean I don't have
it figured out.
SPEAKER_00 (30:19):
I just like talking about I like problems.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:21):
I like to fix, you know, so no we figured it out
and everybody everybody is goodtogether.
SPEAKER_00 (30:25):
We've got it.
SPEAKER_02 (30:26):
All right.
Moving on now to we're going totalk about uh e-commerce
marketplaces.
So my background wasn't I didn'twork with marketplace brands
very very often or actually atall when I was you know in
former former roles, right?
And so in my new role I have hadmore exposure to marketplaces
(30:49):
and especially marketplacesellers.
And I just went to theMarketplace Summit in in San
Diego for Walmart, Walmart'sMarketplace Summit, and got to
really spend time firsthand witha lot of these marketplace
marketplace sellers.
I know you've had a lot moreexposure.
Marketplaces are, you know, itisn't just Walmart.
There's Amazon, you know, BestBuy just started their
(31:11):
marketplace back up again.
eBay is a marketplace.
One of the ones that I findinteresting just because of my
hobby of sneaker collecting isStockX is a marketplace.
SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
I wore fun sneakers just for this too.
SPEAKER_02 (31:24):
Yeah we maybe you gotta put it on the table.
SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
I I brought these in I even have my little my little
lace tips are different colorsand they're different on the
other shoe too.
But these are just for Brandonbecause I know he has a sneaker
thing.
SPEAKER_02 (31:35):
Yeah and so the really interesting thing for me
is like StockX is a marketplaceand they're a marketplace
partner for Walmart, right?
So it's like a it's almost likemarketplace inception right you
can buy Louis Vuitton purses onWalmart sometimes.
Yeah yeah I mean well is itLouis Vuitton I haven't I
haven't tried all right I yeahyeah so but you know my exposure
(31:57):
to marketplaces like a lot ofthese are like small challenger
brands they're trying to getdistribution whether it's
through Walmart or maybe they'reyou know maybe they're
participating on one marketplacewith Amazon and they want to you
know cross over to Walmart andexpand again expand their expand
their reach.
And you know I I'd love to hearfrom you kind of like your
experience you know withmarketplace sellers because I
(32:20):
think there are some pros andcons to marketplaces and I know
we've talked about that a littlebit and yeah I know you know in
my experience with you know bigbrands like the way they see
marketplace sellers is probablyquite a bit different.
But like these these sellers alot of them you know they're
their own companies and theysupport a community and and
they're you know they're sellingproduct like so they have a role
(32:40):
right and there's they shouldhave an opportunity to to sell
but it sounds like you knowthere are our pros and cons to
that.
So I'd love to hear from youlike what your perspective on
marketplace sellers andmarketplaces are.
SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
Yeah and I you know being on the brand side I have
definitely had that experiencewhere they are more of a thorn
in my side than anything elsewhen they're reselling like
again having a refrigerated itemand having three P sellers
reselling it like Walmart didnot have like there was no FDA
compliancy.
They didn't have to prove thatthey were shipping it
refrigerated and people wereactually ordering this product
(33:12):
and then we would get thenegative complaints because it
either never showed up.
They were kind of like$12 forsomething that was like$3 in
store.
But you know it but then we getthe complaint in the bad review
on our page because the averageWalmart shopper does not know
that that's a difference that itneeds to say you know sold by
Walmart to truly be like a one Pitem to be fair that's pretty
fine print too.
(33:32):
It is I mean I didn't even knowwhere to look until somebody had
pointed like we all had to learnsometime.
And even from the marketplaceside so I've been very fortunate
in my career to have severaltouch points with US Open Call
which is when Walmart brings inall of the small brands and I've
been able to be on site and likeact as a resource for these
brands as they're going intothese merchant meetings and
(33:54):
again when you talk about thecommunity like when you get to
meet the people behind thesebrands oh it's such an amazing
experience.
But so they're going in and whata lot of them if they don't even
if they get a golden ticket theymight only get 20 to 50 stores
to test.
SPEAKER_01 (34:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (34:10):
You know and so it's not necessarily a great thing
but they get pushed to also setup a marketplace and then they
can you know the fulfillmentoptions and everything so it's
not as profitable from a marginperspective for them usually but
it can be good if they've gotone item in 20 stores and they
are able to grow some salesthere and then that marketplace
side of it but just the e comthe way people shop Walmart
(34:33):
they're not sh they don't shopit like Amazon yet.
And I think that'll get you knowthat's it's gotten a lot better
from where we started.
Oh yeah 100% and it'll continueto get better but I think
there's certain items that onWalmart marketplace do fall kind
of flat yeah because peoplearen't necessarily going with
that mentality of this is also amarketplace like Amazon.
And I think Walmart's you knowthey recently changed with um
(34:55):
the F kind of making sureeverybody has FDA compliant and
a certified reseller right atthe beginning of end of July
beginning of August timeframe.
Which was huge because there'sbeen brands I mean I'm sure with
P and G and your background andexperience you've seen those
situations where people are arebuying empty containers and
filling them with who knowswhat.
Right.
And it's dangerous for people.
And not that Walmart or Amazonor Best Buy should take on that
(35:18):
responsibility but at some pointlike I feel like there needs to
be a little bit more if it'syour marketplace you're still
somewhat responsible for who youallow to be on there.
SPEAKER_02 (35:27):
Yeah.
Yeah and I think you knowthere's obviously you know
marketplaces are used fordifferent types of sell uh sales
right so there's you know yourchallenger brands new brands
starting up right you have yourum your arbitrage right people
who are finding products at adiscounted rate and then they're
reselling them and making a fewmore doll you know a few dollars
on each of those.
And then you have you know likeyou were talking about where you
(35:50):
know there are people who areyou know selling product that is
counterfeit in in one way shapeor form right obviously that's
the the one we we we want toavoid for sure.
The arbitrage thing you knowgood for them you know good for
them.
Like if you want to do all ofthat legwork you know to make a
couple of dollars per unit okaygood good for you.
But you know the they the ones Ireally liked supporting
(36:11):
obviously are the challengerbrands right into it to a great
extent I think you knowchallenger brands are willing to
take risks they're willing to dothings that you know the big
brands may not feel ascomfortable doing or or may not
want to do for whatever reason.
You know I think you know seeyou know talking to some of
these challenger brands andhearing their stories about what
they're doing and why they'redoing it and how they're doing
(36:32):
it was you know was inspiring tome but in the but the challenger
brands of today become the bigbrands of tomorrow or have the
potential.
They have the potential.
So it's it's I think it's likeanything right you know you
can't have anything nice rightso there's always going to be I
think people who take advantageof you know things that um are
(36:53):
for the you know maybe intendedfor the good of a broader
audience and then they use themfor not so good reasons.
And yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:00):
So and Walmart is using it as a testing ground.
So if if one of these challengerbrands can get in and show
enough sales within a week likeI know some merchants that have
alerts set that they get areport every week that if a
brand sells over five thousanddollars in marketplace they pull
them up to see who they are andand maybe get them an
opportunity to actually get instore and it's got to the point
(37:21):
that you know merchants andWalmart as a whole like it's
coming out that if you are not abest in class omni shop omni
brand you are not going to havein-store shelf space.
Like so your digital presence ifit means having the extension of
your brand you know SKU set onmarketplace to make sure because
they share a brand shop you knowit allows that opportunity to
(37:45):
kind of prove prove yourself outbefore going into shelf yeah
yeah yeah for sure those thosethat is the proving ground right
yeah proving ground so yeah soyou know I don't think
marketplaces are going anywhere.
No.
SPEAKER_02 (37:58):
I think more market you know probably more
marketplaces will will end uppopping up.
I think there's still somethings to get figured out but I
do think like you know it it theidea around marketplaces is to
provide can you know moreassortment exactly more you know
potentially value potentiallyconvenience through those
channels like a Walmart orAmazon to get those products
into people's hands.
Obviously a lot of people shopAmazon quite a bit because they
(38:21):
know they can find a greatassortment of items and it you
know it comes with convenienceand so I think we know Walmart's
trying to do the same thing andI think anybody that has a
marketplace that is that is theend yeah that is the intent.
So yeah.
All right let's uh move on toour third and final topic uh
today is you know what happenedto Target's mojo um you know
(38:41):
Target known as Target rightthat's what the cool kids call
it um it was like to me you knowwith with Target you know
they've had some they've they'vekind of taken a a bit of a
downturn for sure um you knowthey haven't been as they
haven't been profitable in inseveral consecutive quarters you
know um you know we were talkingabout previously like the the
(39:04):
state of some of the Targetstores were not what what it
used what they used to be as faras what you know it was kind of
messy, disheveled, you know,etc.
But Mark but Target used to belike where people would go and
buy clothes.
It would be where they would gobuy home goods.
SPEAKER_00 (39:17):
It was a social experience.
Like you could go you would seethe memes about the mom that
went to Target just to grabtoilet paper, toothpaste and
three hours and$300 later she'swalking out with a whole new
pillow set and new sheets and aStarbucks on their way out.
And so they really kind of hadthat experience part of it that
was so big to their in-store andjust the trend side of it.
(39:40):
But yeah they've they've been onthe struggle bus a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (39:44):
And I you know you know people would go to you know
Target had the Pinterest endcaps you know at the end of the
aisle at the end of the aisle.
And I think there's you knowthere's been you know there's
been a transition there has beena change and I think you know
Walmart has definitely I thinkstarted to fill the gap.
I think one of the things thatyou know I was reading was you
know people would spend theirdiscretionary income at Target
(40:08):
and you know their essentials atWalmart right?
Yes.
And so you know again we talkeda little bit about economic
headwinds um earlier right andso I think some of that
discretionary income or dis youknow spending is has been
reduced.
SPEAKER_01 (40:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:24):
Plus they're going to Walmart.
Now Walmart has also improvedtheir selection like I I don't
think there's such the you knowso i people are looking at
Walmart as a I want to say afashion destination but they're
definitely more open to and andlike the fashion from Walmart I
think they know that Walmart'sgonna have some of the top
(40:45):
trends.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:46):
You know maybe not all of them but you know and
especially in like the home sideof it you know that was one we
talked about like they'velaunched the pioneer woman side
of it.
You know they have thesedifferent lines that are
definitely appealing todifferent demographics.
And then you have your DrewBerry more beautiful launch of
all these very aestheticallypleasing items that are
affordable priced.
SPEAKER_01 (41:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
And then you have Paris Hilton's new line that
just came out you know and it'sit's everything that you would
expect from Paris Hilton.
And even the same on the apparelyou know seeing the the trends
that come in they've they'vepicked a few and they seem to
have hit well and I will say thequality seems better than it
used to be but I do thinkWalmart stepped up and had been
stepping up and when and toexactly your point people were
(41:29):
going to target with theirdiscretionary funds they
definitely had their loyaliststhat were very heavy app users
and everything else but um I waslooking at a report uh Crazy
coupon lady they do a lot ofsurveys with their database
because they have just such ahigh user base that's one of the
a great thing that you know I'veused them for in my past but on
theirs it was like 32% of um youknow out of the respondents and
(41:51):
there's only like 3,000 inthere.
So it's it's a directional oneat best.
But was these people that theyweren't primary target shoppers
but you know they so theyweren't necessarily loyalists
but they were going in oftenenough and like when they moved
from their DEI stance and theykind of made some of those
choices all these like it's likethe perfect storm.
(42:12):
So people have discretionaryfunds or are getting to where
they have limited discretionaryfunds and they can go to Walmart
and probably find or even aKroger or you know coal or
probably not Kohl's but you knowyou know they're they have other
options.
They have Amazon they have otheroptions and so shoppers speak
with their dollars.
SPEAKER_02 (42:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:31):
Costco has been doing great because of this.
SPEAKER_02 (42:34):
Yeah.
Yeah and I think they may youknow Target made some choices on
their product selection that youknow and in quantities and so
that that's kind of led to someof the challenges on their
bottom line but you know what Ihad you know what I had seen um
what I had seen earlier uh on ain a uh survey at on
powercommerce.com was the shareof Americans who really like or
(42:57):
somewhat like target slid fromaround 70% in early 2023 to
nearly 50% by early 2025.
So that's a very significantdecrease and you know if if
you're not a weekly targetshopper like they don't see the
obviously they don't see thevolume that Walmart might see.
SPEAKER_00 (43:16):
And so that those numbers impact uh them even even
even more so well right andgoing back to the shelf issue if
I have tried going into a storenot just target any of them but
I go in two or three times andwhat I am going in there for is
either the selection's not therebecause something's out of stock
you know all those differentissues or if the food is so
close to spoil date that it'snot even worth buying most
(43:39):
shoppers aren't very patientanymore because they have so
many other options.
Yeah so many options you know soeven though all of these
missteps may have been slight ornot that big had it been the
solo item.
Yeah um I don't know it kind ofwhat was it the death by a
thousand paper cuts?
SPEAKER_02 (43:55):
Yeah a thousand but yeah death death by a thousand
papers.
SPEAKER_00 (43:57):
I think they have an opportunity to turn it around.
SPEAKER_02 (43:59):
What what will it take?
What do you think?
What do you think it'll take forthem?
SPEAKER_00 (44:02):
I want to see so when this new leadership comes
in he's supposed to startJanuary 2026 I think and he's
already internal target so buthis one of his statements was
let's be unapologetically targetand I am hoping that is the
target of pre-COVID days.
SPEAKER_01 (44:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:17):
You know I I hope that that target is coming back
because I would still love to beable to go in there and have an
experience but it's just notthat right now to the point it's
messy.
They are doing really well inplaying cards.
And I don't know if that'sbecause the foot traffic is down
overall and so people thatcollect like these Pokemon and
basically cards I gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (44:35):
Not playing cards.
SPEAKER_00 (44:37):
I'm just a mom.
I I just buy them for the kids.
SPEAKER_02 (44:39):
Yes the Pokemon cards.
SPEAKER_00 (44:40):
But I know if we go to Target we can usually find
what we want compared to others.
And I think maybe that's incorrelation with the decreased
foot traffic is just not as manypeople are going in and so when
you go in there's a betterchance that you're gonna be able
to find those you know whateverPokemon pack that you're you
know hoping to get a a whateverin.
SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
Here first here's a pro tip for all you Pokemon card
go to target collectors go to goto Target.
SPEAKER_00 (45:04):
And you know what they always say to look under
the shelf I've we've lookedseveral times and I've never
actually found any cool cardsunder there.
SPEAKER_02 (45:10):
So yeah awesome okay well yeah I think Target
definitely has someopportunities ahead.
I don't think we've heardobviously heard the last from
Target.
SPEAKER_00 (45:19):
I think there's they're positioned to do so
well.
Yeah and I'm I'm hoping thatthey can go back and be
unapologetically targeted.
SPEAKER_02 (45:26):
Yeah cool.
All right so we're gonna get nowto the final well second and
final anyway part of our podcastwhich is our little game so
we're gonna do vibe check todayand so I'm gonna I'm gonna give
you some some statements and Iwant you just to give me your
gut reaction.
So um don't think it don'toverthink it.
(45:47):
Just let me know you know justlet me know what you think
alright.
So um are you ready?
SPEAKER_00 (45:52):
I'm ready.
SPEAKER_02 (45:53):
Alright so first one ROAS is still worth measuring
gut reaction.
SPEAKER_00 (46:00):
Oh hey this is a family show is a no way it no
way no way alright oh you knowwhat I'll take that back I will
never say no way on anything butit shouldn't be your only and
strongest measurement indicatorof success.
SPEAKER_02 (46:15):
Yes I agree with that I agree with that
marketplaces are doing more harmthan good for big brands.
No, I think if they use it rightit's good for them okay um
visual search is cool tech butmost shoppers are not going to
use it adoption time it needsadoption time retailtainment
(46:40):
only works if it translates tosales no no all right the return
of extra value meals will focwill force a fast food war I
think we saw talk about that Ihope so you hope so alright well
I don't I think of peoplethrowing fast food so that's I
don't know if I really want thatto happen.
SPEAKER_00 (46:57):
I mean again remember I I have four boys like
yeah that it wouldn't even fazeme I I'd cheer for it fall is
better than spring we'll end iton that one.
Yes fall is better than spring Ilove it fall is my favorite
season so it's great.
It's I like both but yeah I likefootball and Halloween and the
(47:19):
cooler weather weather thepretty leaves yeah all of it I
love it I love it I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (47:25):
Alright party people it is time to wrap up this
episode of Retail Media Vibes.
I hope you've enjoyed the showtoday I want to say a special
thank you to Cassie for being onthe show today and sharing all
of your vibes with us.
Any last words anything you'dlike to plug or talk about today
before we wrap?
SPEAKER_00 (47:43):
Yeah I mean first thank you so much for having me.
This has been great anytime youneed anything and then anybody
if you're watching this and youhave questions you can find me
on LinkedIn ask questions like Ilove to talk about this stuff
and if you can't tell I get kindof chatty so let me know.
But the other thing I you know alittle bit more serious of a
note I am the president for ourNorthwest Arkansas Women's
(48:04):
Shelter and as a wholenonprofits over the entire U.S.
are going to be having financingstruggles so if you have a cause
that's near and dear to you inyour local community or here try
to find a way to support them.
There's a lot of federal cutsgoing on right now that are
gonna it's going to make thesenonprofits shut their doors.
And that means that there'snobody to help those people in
(48:26):
need.
So it doesn't have to be thewomen's shelter but if you want
to help support let me know.
But there's there's so many.
SPEAKER_02 (48:33):
So take some time invest in your local community
if you can awesome yeah it's Imean definitely those are um
those nonprofits are definitelyworth supporting in any way we
possibly can.
So all right will you come backto the show if I invite you
absolutely yeah all right wellgood I I I like I love hearing
that.
SPEAKER_00 (48:51):
In fact if a fast food war does start to happen
let's do one and I'll bring myfavorite fast food and you can
bring yours and we'll talk aboutwhich one's actually a value
meal.
SPEAKER_02 (48:59):
Which one is the true value?
We'll do the math right whichone's a true value yeah we'll do
some things we'll bring it downby calorie or something like
that dollar per calorie.
SPEAKER_00 (49:06):
Yeah and then we may not want to eat it after we do
that.
SPEAKER_02 (49:08):
Maybe maybe not maybe not um so in the few in a
future podcast I plan to do amailbag segment that ask BV
almost anything so if you haveany questions you'd like me to
answer in a future podcast sendthat to retailmedia vibes at
gmail.com I'll collect those andgo through them and we'll do a a
(49:29):
mailbag segment.
So I hope you enjoyed today'spodcast please share it with a
friend just in please subscriberetail media vibes it's on all
of the different podcastnetworks it's obviously also on
YouTube.
So uh with that uh thank you somuch for listening and I promise
to do better next time.
(49:49):
See ya
What's up, party people?
BV here for another episode ofRetail Media Vibes.
We're episode three.
Retail Media Vibes is a doingbusiness in Bentonville podcast,
and we are being recorded atPodcast Video Studios in Rogers,
Arkansas.
Today I have my guest, CassieMurray, and we'll be going
through uh and chatting todayabout measurement and retail,
(00:31):
what really matters,understanding e-commerce
marketplaces, and what happenedto Target's mojo.
So if you ever want to get apodcast recorded, I highly
recommend Podcast Video Studioshere in Rogers.
They are a professional team andthey take care of all the work
that you probably don't want todo to create a podcast.
And you can just come in andfocus on your content just like
(00:52):
I do every single time.
So come check them out here inRogers.
All right, so now on with theshow.
So we're gonna start off meetingwith our guest today and do a
little vibe chat with CassieMurray.
Hi, Cassie.
How are you?
SPEAKER_00 (01:06):
Hello, Brandon.
I am doing great.
SPEAKER_02 (01:08):
Awesome.
Well, um excited to have you on.
Um, you know, we've been talkinga little bit about having you on
the podcast for a while, so I'mreally excited that we actually
made the podcast happen andactually have you on the
podcast.
So love to get to know you.
I know you a bit, but obviouslywe want our audience to get to
know you a bit as well.
And so why don't you you knowshare a little bit about your
(01:29):
background and ask a few morequestions?
SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
Yeah.
Um I have kind of made it apoint in my career to stay on
the front side of digital andomnicommerce transformation as
it impacts more of the shoppermarketing side.
And so my path has been brand,it's been independent media
companies, was with Triad youknow early on in my career and
even retailtainment.
SPEAKER_02 (01:52):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Um what what really gets youexcited about retail, right?
So this retail media vibes,you've got that background in
retail.
Like what what are the thingsthat get you excited about it?
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
I love that what we are talking about today will be
outdated likely by this timenext year.
Yeah.
And so I know that's not foreverybody, but I love the change
because it's a constantchallenge.
We're always something new andfresh to pay attention to.
SPEAKER_02 (02:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's you know, one of thereasons why I started this
podcast is because the change ofof retail, retail media, what
the definition of retail mediais, and you know, there's such a
great community of people whowork in this space that I just
love, and so it's it was it wasgreat to be able to start the
podcast.
Um so let me kind of give you alittle bit of an icebreaker
(02:39):
question.
So uh if you had a virtual AIassistant, think about that for
a second, somebody somesomething, somebody, I guess
that could do three things foryou, what would those first
three things you would ask themto do?
SPEAKER_00 (02:55):
And this is where with AI I love it, but what I
really want done is my laundry.
I want my floors cleaned, I wantthe beds cleaned.
You want a robot, you don't wantan AI robot.
I want I want an AI robot.
But until then, um I kind ofstarted playing around with all
the shortcut automations andNFCs.
And so I like being able to liketap in if we need more dog food,
(03:16):
like when the dog food's out,you can and it sends a shortcut
and it will send a text and thenadd to list.
Sometimes it doesn't work.
So, like, I mean with anytechnology, we're still doing
that.
But I think more of like thevirtual assistant stuff, like
scheduling doctor's appointment,like the mundane, like just
boring things is what I wouldhand over more readily.
SPEAKER_02 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you know, for me, like youknow, thinking about my an AI
assistant, I think it's one ofthose things that keeps me on
track, right?
So I've always thought of AI asit should be more of a push than
a pull, right?
So obviously there's some sortof stimulus and you get back a
response.
I would love an AI that'd say,hey, you know what, you've got a
meeting, a big meeting in aweek.
(03:57):
You should really start on thatpresentation now, right?
So you're not waiting till lastminute or you get distracted
with other things.
SPEAKER_00 (04:03):
Or even finding like efficiencies in your schedule
and being like, hey, I know onThursday you were needing to
pick up the dry cleaning, butyou'll be over there Wednesday.
Right.
And it like moves it in yourschedule so that it like saves
you time and energy, like thatpart, the efficiency and the
optimization part, if they couldjust do that for me, if like
instead of me going, oh dang it,I forgot to do that, or man, now
(04:25):
I've got to drive completelyacross town for just one thing.
And I was just over hereyesterday.
Like if it could tell that I waslike in downtown Bentonville,
right?
Be like, hey, you've beenmeaning to stop by the T and
Spice shop.
SPEAKER_02 (04:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
You know, it would remind me while I'm down there
because I don't always remember.
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
Yeah, yeah.
And it's you know, it I thinkwe're on that path to getting
there because of the way thatyou know, apps and agents will
be able to communicate behindthe scenes and you know get
better at doing those thosethings, at least those reminders
and those pushes.
Um, so yeah, I think I mean thatI think everybody could benefit
from that.
SPEAKER_01 (04:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:00):
Yeah, cool.
All right, Cassie.
Well, thank you, thanks forthat.
Let's um now go into our quickhit topic.
So a little topical banter,right?
That's why we're here to talkabout some things that are
happening out there in retailmedia and and marketing.
Um, so the first one is AmazonLens.
So they've added a visualsearch, a live visual search.
(05:20):
So I think you would there wasalways that opportunity to take
a picture of something and sendit in and get back a response.
Now it's live, right?
So you can open up the camera,it's live streaming, it'll pick
up something in a room.
There'll be a swipable carouselof products.
It's integrated with their AI,Rufus, and you can query about
you know about the productdirectly within that, within
(05:42):
that stream.
Um, and so it really is likekind of a new opportunity to you
know look at and find productsthat are in the physical
environment and bring themobviously into e-commerce and
obviously ask questions about itand and and and so forth.
So, you know, on one hand, I cansee the benefit of that, but to
be honest, like I've neverreally used Visual Search too
(06:03):
much personally, uh for shoppingpurposes, especially.
I mean, I might do somethingwith a bug.
Like I what what the heck kindof bug is this or a plant,
right?
But I've never done thattypically with shopping.
I mean, what what's yourimpression of like where that
could be beneficial and wouldthat be something you you would
use?
SPEAKER_00 (06:21):
So I um kind of was playing around with it when we
were talking about this podcastbecause I hadn't used it really
and I knew it was there, but Ihadn't had a reason to use it.
Right.
Um but very similar to you, Iuse Google Lens a lot for like
if we're out thrifting and thenthere's some like random piece.
I wanted like, what is this?
And you know, is it cool?
Or a bug, you know, things likethat.
(06:42):
But I use it, I also use it forpricing to see like where
everything's being sold and forwhat price.
And so I think Amazon, it'sgonna be interesting because I
actually took it into a storewith me and would scan and see
what the price was on Amazon orif they at least had something
comparable because it does bringup like items, not just exact
matches.
And so it could create a morecompetitive space.
(07:06):
I mean, we know shoppers arealready doing it on their
phones, like when they're instores, it's not uncommon for
somebody to price check largeritems.
But if it's something you needshipped and maybe, I don't know,
toilet paper or something likenot that an instant need or like
that you're just looking at andlike maybe, oh, maybe Amazon has
it cheaper.
And right depending on you knowtheir systems, because you know
they're such a closed loopsystem with all of their media,
(07:28):
could they know that you'reabout to purchase and you know
suggest that you price checkwhile you're out shopping?
Like will it get to that point?
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (07:35):
I mean, well, knowing Amazon, knowing Amazon,
they're probably monitoring yourlocation.
They may know what store you'rein, right?
And so they're using that dataas you're using that live search
to inform their systems in orderto, you know, for whatever
reason, right?
You know, make a better productselection, hit you with ads, you
know, whatever they they theymight do that for.
SPEAKER_00 (07:57):
Oh, I think we'll see.
Like I said, in the advertisingand maybe even potentially in
social, you know, they integrateand listen.
So like, you know, if people arebuying those media or those
audiences, be like, oh, somebodythat has been scanning a lot of
this aesthetic type item, and sothey know that they could target
those people.
I always tell people whenpeople, you know, they go on the
government rants about, oh, thegovernment's tracking me.
I'm like, it is not.
I mean, they are maybe, but it'sme.
(08:18):
It's people like me, it'smarketers.
SPEAKER_02 (08:19):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (08:20):
We are tracking you guys on a scary, scary level
sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (08:23):
I feel a little bad about that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
I do sometimes.
Just a little just a little bit.
Sometimes.
All right.
SPEAKER_02 (08:27):
All right, let's move on to our next quick hit.
So Walmart is, you know, Walmarttalks has talked a lot about
retailtainment over the years,right?
And that was one of the areasthat you said you've enjoyed
quite a bit.
Uh so Walmart is taking the ideafrom a TikTok FYP or for you
page and bringing it to lifethrough a road tour, right?
(08:48):
So they're gonna havesemi-trucks that are traveling
around to different events indifferent locations, not just
Walmart parking lots, but otherlocations.
And so there a lot of these arecentered around Gen Z interests.
There's K-pop, retro gaming,there's a rodeo truck, there's a
nature truck, and there's evenone for like workout,
post-post-workout, andself-self-care.
(09:09):
So it's it's it's really tryingto bring you know what people
interact with on screens andtrying to bring it into real
life.
So you've got this, this, thistransition of social media to
the physical environment.
And so, you know, do these doyou feel like like
retailtainment and things likethis and what Walmart is doing
with FYP, do you feel like itreally makes a difference?
(09:32):
Is it you know, is it reallybring shoppers to retail?
Does it really build brands?
Like what are your thoughtsaround you know an activity like
this?
SPEAKER_00 (09:41):
So I will say I love a good retailtainment program.
To your point, I started in thatspace.
Um, but retail the way thatthey're doing these FYP, if that
is the quintessential definitionof what Omni is and what Omni
has become, because you aretaking a digital experience or
something that has happened in awhole other place and you are
taking it to where you know yourshoppers are.
(10:02):
So you're bringing it to a pointof intersection.
And so by taking these trucks,these Walmart trucks to some of
these events, I think that'sgoing to resonate really well
with the shopper.
Sometimes they can fall flatwhen you just have them at the
Walmart parking lot.
And if you don't do enoughmarketing behind it or don't
understand like the becausethere can be several Walmarts in
a certain area, which one isactually the best one that you
(10:22):
need to be at?
Right.
And so I think you know,sometimes we oversimplify the
retailtainment approach, butreally if you're approaching it
with an omni-perspective, andbecause I mean, good, bad, or
indifferent, most of our youththey spend a ridiculous amount
of time on screen.
Hell, I spend a ridiculousamount of time on screens now.
So while none of those are mything, but I do have kids that
(10:43):
are in this range, and that waskind of something I was thinking
about.
I was like, did they take theopportunity to target the
parents that they can identifythat have children in this
space?
I have one that the K-pop stuff,if it was here, he would love to
go.
Right.
But I haven't necessarily beentargeted with anything yet.
And so I think there's alsothat, like, while Gen Z like
they're still young enough inthat kind of section that the
(11:04):
older ones, yeah, they'rethey're in college, they're like
they're buying power, all ofthat.
But there's a whole subset ofthat, what, 12, I think, is
probably the youngest in that umbracket we're looking at.
Yeah, they are not drivingthemselves to Walmart.
So while like part of theconcern, I think people are
like, oh, it's not going toresonate with the core Walmart
shopper.
Well, it's not meant to resonatewith the core Walmart shopper,
it's meant to be engaging sothat they want to come and to
(11:25):
bring a new shopper into thestore that is very heavily
screen dependent.
SPEAKER_02 (11:29):
Yeah.
Like Yeah, and what I like aboutit too is it's it's brand
building, but it's alsocommunity building, right?
And so the community usuallyrallies around these type of
events, right?
And so, you know, whether it's aSaturday morning at a Walmart or
or you know, if a Fridayafternoon at a park or you know,
wherever the trucks are going,and there's a whole schedule on
Walmart's uh Walmart's sidearound this on where they're
(11:51):
gonna be, you know, it it doesbring people, you know, it does
bring people together, it bringspeople to these events and gives
families an opportunity to youknow have a little fun, you
know, um with their with theirkids or or or even young adults,
you know, some they're lookingfor something, something to do.
And you know, Walmart is behindit.
And so I feel like it's a great,it's a great opportunity for the
brand.
(12:12):
You know, is it gonna change theworld?
Is it gonna change no, but Ithink it's it's a lot of these
little things that add up overtime.
SPEAKER_00 (12:18):
And I think that's important also is like when
especially when we kind of hiton measurement later on in this
section, like it's brandbuilding, but they are hard to
generate a profitable returnbecause of the expense that goes
into creating the assets, thethe fuel, the travel time, the
just the people, all thedifferent certifications and
insurances that you have to do.
(12:38):
Like so brand building, but youneed to look at it from what it
is and not necessarily from justa straight ROAS perspective.
There is going to be a more longtail opportunity on those than
an immediate we just saw a 7%lift at store XYZ, you know,
because we had the truck there.
Like that's hopefully that isnot the expectation, and they
(12:58):
will appreciate it for what itis.
SPEAKER_02 (13:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Cool.
All right, so the last quick hitwe have McDonald's, right?
Not not typically a retailmedia, but for bear with me for
a second.
Um I'm trying, I'm not gonnarant, I promise.
But McDonald's just recentlybrought back extra value meals.
Um I think I remember whenMcDonald's started extra value
(13:23):
meals.
I think at that time extra valuemeals were maybe like$2.99.
Right.
Extra value meals are eightdollars, Cassie.
Eight dollars.
Like that, you know, I know themeals themselves are like twelve
ish, twelve to thirteen dollars,I think, now in in a lot of
ways.
But eight dollars, I mean that'sthat's quite quite high.
SPEAKER_00 (13:45):
I feel like it's a much bigger like those those two
numbers are way closer togetherthan they used to be too, right?
Like because the value mill wastwo, three dollars, and back
then a full meal was like, youknow, probably around ten still,
maybe eight to ten.
But that's a significant savingsgap.
But now we're going eight to youknow, eight to twelve, we're
shortening that, you know,space, and so it's not really a
(14:06):
value.
SPEAKER_02 (14:07):
Yeah.
Do you think like other otherQSR uh restaurants are also
going to you know amplify theirvalue menu, so to speak, you
know, as as you know, there arequestions of whether or not
what's happening with theeconomy and you know, economic
headwinds, as I like to say.
Economic headwinds.
But like the when when thefinancial time financial and
(14:30):
economic times get a little bittough, brands start to talk more
about value.
Right.
So they can kind of maintain aprice point that's reasonable,
but you're getting more for yourmoney.
So you know value is obviously akey term.
You think this will start atrend of price wars of value
meals across the QSR landscape?
SPEAKER_00 (14:48):
I sure hope so.
SPEAKER_02 (14:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
Like, I mean, because even I know Sonic has
started with like uh, you know,like a little two to three
dollar subset menu in the app,and Taco Bell has theirs, and
I've started noticing um,because I get the Sonic push
notifications that they've beenpushing a lot more, it feels
like lately than they havehistorically.
Um but yeah, all of us are gonnabe facing the same problem that
QSR is.
It's it's going to become ashare of dollar conversation.
(15:11):
Right.
And so you have to establish thevalue, you know, the QSR is
therefore of convenience, andconvenience is key right now.
So they'll probably do fine.
But yeah, I would I hope theydo.
I want to see some like goodsocial media wars with like
Burger King talking, you know,smack to Wendy's, talking smack
up McDonald's about their valuemeal, and it's not actually a
value.
SPEAKER_02 (15:32):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
It's always good entertainment.
SPEAKER_02 (15:34):
Yeah, yeah.
We'll see.
We'll see how that goes.
And get your Big Mac meal for$8and your sausage McMuffin with
egg milk for five.
SPEAKER_00 (15:43):
I'm just I'm gonna do a happy meal, I guess, and
get this.
I get a toy with it.
SPEAKER_02 (15:47):
That could be a whole other topic for another
day, those those promotions andincentives.
All right.
So all right, so that was thequick hits.
So now let's get into ourbigger, meatier, I guess,
topics.
I mean, we just talked abouthamburgers, so I guess that's a
a good transition, right?
Um, so top our first topic,we're gonna talk about
(16:09):
measurement and retail and whatreally matters.
And I we could probably do awhole podcast just on this
because I think it's such a hottopic in retail, right?
And so whenever the conversationin retail comes up, there's it
it's there's just this groanaround measurement, right?
It's like, well, you know, thatwe can measure this, we can't
(16:30):
measure that, the numbers that Isee don't reflect my sales.
Um, you know, every retailer hastheir own measurement criteria,
KPIs aren't aren't the same,numbers don't line up, you know,
and brands, you know, brandsthat are controlling more of the
retail media budgets, you know,they want to see results that
(16:50):
you know before they releasefunds, right?
And so it's really becoming a abit more challenging, really,
you know, in the conversationsthat that we're having.
You know, it's clear thatincrementality is one that is a
a clear North Star thateverybody really wants to see,
is you know, did my marketing ordid my media actually drive
(17:11):
incremental sales, not justcapture people who would have
bought already?
But you know, it's it's hard,it's hard to measure, right?
Because you know, last pointattribution, last click, you
know, that there's yeah, all ofthese things actually are coming
coming together.
So, you know, from yourperspective, and you're
definitely well more way moreversed on on measurement and
(17:31):
your experiences than I am, butlike what is your perspective on
the value of measurement, wherewhere measurement is headed, you
know, and also consideringonline versus in-store, because
you know, we you mentionedomnichannel earlier.
We're you know these areomnichannel shoppers, they're
shopping online, they'reshopping in store.
It's all about convenience.
How do we measure to make surethat our media or marketing
(17:54):
activities are actually drivingthe bottom line?
SPEAKER_00 (17:57):
Yeah.
And I mean to your point, thereis uh 80% of grocery shopping st
or 70 to 80 percent stillhappens in store.
Right.
So that is a huge component ofthis, especially with your
Walmarts, your Costco's, yourSAMS, your Kroger's, all of
those, because they they arebrick and mortars first and
foremost, and you know, but theyneed to be able to engage that
(18:18):
person in a digital experience.
Even if the shopper isn'tnecessarily a digital shopper in
that ecosystem, you're stilltrying to impact that in-store
shopping behavior.
And can I just can we get rid ofROAS?
SPEAKER_02 (18:30):
ROAS is the best metric.
SPEAKER_00 (18:32):
I don't know how many conversations I've had over
the years.
Okay.
And ro and ROAS used to be, Imean, we didn't have much more,
like we would look at ROASgoals, you know, it was better
than click-through rate andimpressions, but it still
doesn't tell, it just tracks thenumber of sales that happened
during the period that yourmedia ran.
And um in that space, like it'sjust it's incomplete.
(18:55):
And even on the incremental sideof it, um, understanding that
incremental value can be verydifficult.
I will say I don't think there'sa one end-all-be-all solution.
I have been fortunate to be ableto partner with, I have
partnered with a lot ofdifferent data, you know, the
IRIs, the ANSAs, the Nielsen's,the, you know, um most recently
I'd onboarded a newer companycalled Peak, and they were using
(19:16):
AI modeling to kind of flattenout all of those other things
that happen in a market, youknow, weather trends and things
like that, um, but also to lookat it from a cross-retailer
perspective, because that is theother big issue with this is
Walmart's reporting is not goingto be the same as Kroger's
reporting.
And even the impact of somethinglike search, you know, you're
(19:37):
not Kroger could be driving moreincrementality in your search,
but have a lower ROAS justbecause they don't have the
space to grow like Walmart does.
And so kind of levelizing thatplaying field, even for me in
that space, um, I was with freshand frozen items at Dollar
General.
They only get a truck once aweek.
(19:58):
So if you run through theproduct, and they also have very
limited shelf space for thatproduct.
So you might get four items on ashelf at a time, but if you're
running promotions and thingslike that, well, once you run
through that inventory, likethere's not a much opportunity
for incrementality.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
That's that's such a great point because I think
there are always aspects to youknow sales that go beyond just
media on shelf on shelfavailability is an important
part, right?
Right.
And it just makes so much sense.
So, yeah, in that example, and Ihad no idea, like you only get
one truck a week.
Yeah, if you run through yourfive or six items on the shelf,
(20:36):
yeah, no matter how much mediayou run, you're not going to
increase your sales, right?
You probably should stop mediaat that point, right?
Depending on what the promotionis, right?
SPEAKER_00 (20:43):
And then depending on how well the inventory is
tracked, you may not know whatyour true inventory is,
especially on smaller items thatare easily handheld, like
individual wrapped ice cream, um20-ounce single serves.
I've been on two brands that wehad that problem, and then those
things like to walk away a lot.
So your inventory is always off.
(21:04):
Um but that even goes into thewhole measurement conversation.
And you can even look atmeasurement from an opportunity
of declining, like if you arefacing hemorrhaging or rapidly
declining sales, maybe youdidn't drive any incrementality,
but did you slow the hemorrhage?
SPEAKER_01 (21:18):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Like did you stop, or was there a competitor coming
in?
Did you manage to stop losingshare?
You know, there's so many otherfactors to it that need to be
considered and not just row asand not just incrementality,
right?
Because you may not.
But in that incrementalityconversation with Dollar
General, it gives you theopportunity to go back on the
sales side and say, hey, we arelooking at running some kind of
(21:40):
pricing promotion, blah, blah,blah to support your business,
but we need incrementalplacement.
How do we get that for this timeframe?
SPEAKER_01 (21:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:47):
And the same conversation with Walmart.
You know, we would intentionallyramp up sales during that time
if we were getting in cap orfeature placement because we had
more inventory that we couldmove.
Right.
You know, Walmart, we didn'tnecessarily have the inventory
issues like Dollar General, butit takes into consideration.
And then also comparing DollarGeneral spend directly to a
Walmart spend and even digitalmedia to digital media, like
(22:08):
you're talking very differentshoppers, very different
ecosystems.
Like it's it's not apples toapples.
SPEAKER_02 (22:15):
Yeah, it's super complex, super complicated.
I think, you know, and I I'vetalked about this on other
podcasts, is like theexpectation of your retail media
strategist, you know,considering omnichannel, uh,
considering all the retailers,knowing all the nuances, is very
i it's difficult, right?
And it's it's it's superchallenging.
I I think you know, from from myperspective and what I've seen,
(22:38):
it's like, you know, let's beclear on what the objective is,
right?
So are are we trying to defendour position?
Are we trying to gainincrementality?
Really be realistic of who theretailer is and what you're
trying to achieve.
I think that will go a long way.
And then understand, like, youknow, because I've been in
conversations where you knowmeasurement perfection is
(22:59):
expected when measurementperfection does not exist.
You know, it does not exist.
It does not exist, right?
And so some brands don't likemodeling, right?
They don't want you to model,they want to use a different
methodology, and there's severaldifferent methodologies to get
there.
But you know, it it is it isinteresting how you know
measurement is such a key role,and I think clarity up front
(23:22):
doesn't all it isn't done comyou know, it doesn't isn't done
all the time, right?
It's just you know, having thatclarity is so important.
SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
Even when you have clarity up front, I have caught
myself, I mean, my plans, I setthe KPIs, and then I start
seeing the results, and it'ssomething like, I don't know, a
a metric that I'm used to seeingit be higher.
SPEAKER_01 (23:40):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:41):
And it really doesn't matter to the what we're
looking at, but it does take youa moment to like stop yourself
and go, that doesn't matterright now.
It is technically doing what wewant it to do.
SPEAKER_01 (23:50):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
But you know, when you are so trained to look at
certain metrics or like aclick-through rate that
decreases, like, or you know,something like that that we
we've always traditionallylooked at, it you almost have to
retrain yourself too to stop andgo, wait a second, what is our
true goal?
Right.
What is the KPI?
So what if this other numberisn't doing this because that's
not the goal of this number forthis time?
(24:12):
And I mean, and thencommunicating that with sales
and with your leadership, youknow, because that's always
coming back to that.
If your KPI was new to brandshoppers, okay, great.
We may not see as muchincremental lift as we would
have on a traditional programbecause we were solely focused
on new to brand shoppers.
SPEAKER_01 (24:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
So that new to brand percent is really what's going
to matter to us more than thetotal IRO as.
SPEAKER_02 (24:37):
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think we get confusedsometimes on the difference
between a campaign objective anda media objective.
Yes.
The media jet objective shouldsupport the campaign objective,
but they aren't one in the same99% of the time.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Aaron Powell Well, and usually there's multiple
tactics.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I mean, so you yeah, to holdthem all to that same and then
as long as it's funneling up andjust reminding yourself that
what the goal was.
SPEAKER_02 (25:02):
Aaron Powell Well, and being on the agency side, so
as I've been, and you've been onthe brand side, Cassie, so you
you you understand where I'mcoming from on this one, but
there's a lot of pressure whenwhen an agency is looking at the
numbers.
And to your point about why didthe click-through rate change,
even though that may not benecessarily the focus of the
(25:23):
campaign, right?
But it but it in the in themeeting, right, in the in the
report that we have to send overto a brand and say, hey,
something changed and everybodywants to optimize everything,
right?
Because we're in thisperformance media mindset across
the entire ecosystem, right?
And so it it adds that pressure,right?
(25:44):
Well, why did the click-throughrate go down 0.01%?
Well, I don't know.
What can we do to change that?
Why do we need to change it?
Yeah, why do we need to changeit?
And I think so.
I think you know, there isthere's you know the pressure on
the agency side, obviouslythere's pressure on the brand
side too, because the shoppermarketer that's looking at the
report has to report up tosomebody else, and there's
(26:04):
somebody who's asking them aquestion, right?
And so just from just myperspective, I think sometimes
we get too focused in on thenumbers.
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:13):
The detailed numbers, right?
Like when you're running acampaign, yes, there are KPIs
and KPIs are there for obviouslyvery specific reasons.
But what I've seen generally inin my career has been like when
you do a can't when you do acampaign with the right
communication strategy, right?
With the it's the right idea,the right communication, the
(26:33):
right media channels, workingtogether, you're gonna see good
results, right?
Right.
Whether or not and and I know Iunderstand why, right?
I understand everybody wants tojustify why things were spent
the way they were and make surethat we can repeat it again the
next time because everybodywants to get to a formulaic
result or formulaic process.
Oh, if I do this, this, and thisevery time I'm gonna get X
(26:55):
percent of improvement in sales.
That's not always the case,right?
And so I think sometimes I thinkwe use the numbers are just used
not necessarily improperly, butI think the emphasis that are
put on some of these numbers maynot necessarily always be the
right focal areas when you'vegot to look at the bigger
picture to really see what itcan because it's all of these
(27:17):
touch points that all add uptogether to really result in in
incrementality or improvement insales or defending a position or
whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Oh, and then you throw in profitability.
SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
Yeah, well.
SPEAKER_00 (27:39):
What does that actually mean?
And then you start having theprofitability conversations.
And I'll say I think the onething I learned was to get
really good about askingquestions of, you know, when
those asks were coming down andeven sitting down and saying,
okay, do we just want to movevolume or do we want to move
profitable volume?
And those two things do not gohand in hand usually.
And moving profitable volume isnot going to be the same as just
(27:59):
moving volume.
SPEAKER_02 (28:00):
Right.
You know, maybe you havesomething on a shelf that is,
you know, there's a changeover,right?
There's a new product and you'vegot to move product or you know,
product is getting close toexpiration, you've got to move
that.
So at that point you don'treally care if you're
profitable, you're just tryingto make space so the new product
can can come up, right?
And so like these are all of thethings that you know all kind of
come together and in figuringout, okay, you know, success,
(28:22):
measurement and success I thinkI think almost like success
really goes back to what you'retrying to achieve in your
campaign.
Right.
And then, you know, and then themeasurement are are some key key
key points, key metrics withinthat campaign that give you
indications.
Yeah.
Maybe not solely, but give youindications of how things are
(28:44):
going based upon levers you canpull.
SPEAKER_00 (28:46):
Well, and even when you think about, you know, so
talking just full campaign on meand that structure, but then
when you go into just thatdigital experience and just that
e-commerce experience, you know,searches like, you know, and
they'll always tell you, oh, youshould be on 24 hours a day,
seven days a week, evergreen.
Uh my definition of evergreenhas always been a little bit
different.
We're on consistently.
SPEAKER_01 (29:06):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (29:06):
May or may not be every, you know, all day, you
know, throw some day parting in,you know, because I've never
actually had a fully fundedbudget ever in my entire career.
So I'm used to being scrappy andI've been used to like, okay,
where where are these dollarsgoing to go most?
But even understanding that thate-commerce impact, so like a$22
return on ad spend on search,and even if you're you know, but
(29:29):
are you driving more digitalpenetration?
Because that's really how you'regonna show growth, unless your
in-store sales are raising atthe same rate of your online
sales.
But then you just need yourdigital penetration to not
decrease.
Yeah.
You know, and so again, likedifferent so many levers, right?
So many levers, so much to lookat, but just the differentiation
between like these things arenot the same.
(29:51):
They mean different things.
You know, that your omni, yourdigital percentage, while that
number might be great, is stillonly 15 to 25 percent.
of your total sales.
Walmart's pushing everybody toget to 30% right now.
Some categories, I don't knowhow they'll ever, you know, they
might get there eventually.
Right.
But, you know, it is what it is.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:11):
Well I'm glad we were able to figure out
measurement in retail media.
So anytime you ever havequestions, I mean I don't have
it figured out.
SPEAKER_00 (30:19):
I just like talking about I like problems.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:21):
I like to fix, you know, so no we figured it out
and everybody everybody is goodtogether.
SPEAKER_00 (30:25):
We've got it.
SPEAKER_02 (30:26):
All right.
Moving on now to we're going totalk about uh e-commerce
marketplaces.
So my background wasn't I didn'twork with marketplace brands
very very often or actually atall when I was you know in
former former roles, right?
And so in my new role I have hadmore exposure to marketplaces
(30:49):
and especially marketplacesellers.
And I just went to theMarketplace Summit in in San
Diego for Walmart, Walmart'sMarketplace Summit, and got to
really spend time firsthand witha lot of these marketplace
marketplace sellers.
I know you've had a lot moreexposure.
Marketplaces are, you know, itisn't just Walmart.
There's Amazon, you know, BestBuy just started their
(31:11):
marketplace back up again.
eBay is a marketplace.
One of the ones that I findinteresting just because of my
hobby of sneaker collecting isStockX is a marketplace.
SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
I wore fun sneakers just for this too.
SPEAKER_02 (31:24):
Yeah we maybe you gotta put it on the table.
SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
I I brought these in I even have my little my little
lace tips are different colorsand they're different on the
other shoe too.
But these are just for Brandonbecause I know he has a sneaker
thing.
SPEAKER_02 (31:35):
Yeah and so the really interesting thing for me
is like StockX is a marketplaceand they're a marketplace
partner for Walmart, right?
So it's like a it's almost likemarketplace inception right you
can buy Louis Vuitton purses onWalmart sometimes.
Yeah yeah I mean well is itLouis Vuitton I haven't I
haven't tried all right I yeahyeah so but you know my exposure
(31:57):
to marketplaces like a lot ofthese are like small challenger
brands they're trying to getdistribution whether it's
through Walmart or maybe they'reyou know maybe they're
participating on one marketplacewith Amazon and they want to you
know cross over to Walmart andexpand again expand their expand
their reach.
And you know I I'd love to hearfrom you kind of like your
experience you know withmarketplace sellers because I
(32:20):
think there are some pros andcons to marketplaces and I know
we've talked about that a littlebit and yeah I know you know in
my experience with you know bigbrands like the way they see
marketplace sellers is probablyquite a bit different.
But like these these sellers alot of them you know they're
their own companies and theysupport a community and and
they're you know they're sellingproduct like so they have a role
(32:40):
right and there's they shouldhave an opportunity to to sell
but it sounds like you knowthere are our pros and cons to
that.
So I'd love to hear from youlike what your perspective on
marketplace sellers andmarketplaces are.
SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
Yeah and I you know being on the brand side I have
definitely had that experiencewhere they are more of a thorn
in my side than anything elsewhen they're reselling like
again having a refrigerated itemand having three P sellers
reselling it like Walmart didnot have like there was no FDA
compliancy.
They didn't have to prove thatthey were shipping it
refrigerated and people wereactually ordering this product
(33:12):
and then we would get thenegative complaints because it
either never showed up.
They were kind of like$12 forsomething that was like$3 in
store.
But you know it but then we getthe complaint in the bad review
on our page because the averageWalmart shopper does not know
that that's a difference that itneeds to say you know sold by
Walmart to truly be like a one Pitem to be fair that's pretty
fine print too.
(33:32):
It is I mean I didn't even knowwhere to look until somebody had
pointed like we all had to learnsometime.
And even from the marketplaceside so I've been very fortunate
in my career to have severaltouch points with US Open Call
which is when Walmart brings inall of the small brands and I've
been able to be on site and likeact as a resource for these
brands as they're going intothese merchant meetings and
(33:54):
again when you talk about thecommunity like when you get to
meet the people behind thesebrands oh it's such an amazing
experience.
But so they're going in and whata lot of them if they don't even
if they get a golden ticket theymight only get 20 to 50 stores
to test.
SPEAKER_01 (34:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (34:10):
You know and so it's not necessarily a great thing
but they get pushed to also setup a marketplace and then they
can you know the fulfillmentoptions and everything so it's
not as profitable from a marginperspective for them usually but
it can be good if they've gotone item in 20 stores and they
are able to grow some salesthere and then that marketplace
side of it but just the e comthe way people shop Walmart
(34:33):
they're not sh they don't shopit like Amazon yet.
And I think that'll get you knowthat's it's gotten a lot better
from where we started.
Oh yeah 100% and it'll continueto get better but I think
there's certain items that onWalmart marketplace do fall kind
of flat yeah because peoplearen't necessarily going with
that mentality of this is also amarketplace like Amazon.
And I think Walmart's you knowthey recently changed with um
(34:55):
the F kind of making sureeverybody has FDA compliant and
a certified reseller right atthe beginning of end of July
beginning of August timeframe.
Which was huge because there'sbeen brands I mean I'm sure with
P and G and your background andexperience you've seen those
situations where people are arebuying empty containers and
filling them with who knowswhat.
Right.
And it's dangerous for people.
And not that Walmart or Amazonor Best Buy should take on that
(35:18):
responsibility but at some pointlike I feel like there needs to
be a little bit more if it'syour marketplace you're still
somewhat responsible for who youallow to be on there.
SPEAKER_02 (35:27):
Yeah.
Yeah and I think you knowthere's obviously you know
marketplaces are used fordifferent types of sell uh sales
right so there's you know yourchallenger brands new brands
starting up right you have yourum your arbitrage right people
who are finding products at adiscounted rate and then they're
reselling them and making a fewmore doll you know a few dollars
on each of those.
And then you have you know likeyou were talking about where you
(35:50):
know there are people who areyou know selling product that is
counterfeit in in one way shapeor form right obviously that's
the the one we we we want toavoid for sure.
The arbitrage thing you knowgood for them you know good for
them.
Like if you want to do all ofthat legwork you know to make a
couple of dollars per unit okaygood good for you.
But you know the they the ones Ireally liked supporting
(36:11):
obviously are the challengerbrands right into it to a great
extent I think you knowchallenger brands are willing to
take risks they're willing to dothings that you know the big
brands may not feel ascomfortable doing or or may not
want to do for whatever reason.
You know I think you know seeyou know talking to some of
these challenger brands andhearing their stories about what
they're doing and why they'redoing it and how they're doing
(36:32):
it was you know was inspiring tome but in the but the challenger
brands of today become the bigbrands of tomorrow or have the
potential.
They have the potential.
So it's it's I think it's likeanything right you know you
can't have anything nice rightso there's always going to be I
think people who take advantageof you know things that um are
(36:53):
for the you know maybe intendedfor the good of a broader
audience and then they use themfor not so good reasons.
And yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:00):
So and Walmart is using it as a testing ground.
So if if one of these challengerbrands can get in and show
enough sales within a week likeI know some merchants that have
alerts set that they get areport every week that if a
brand sells over five thousanddollars in marketplace they pull
them up to see who they are andand maybe get them an
opportunity to actually get instore and it's got to the point
(37:21):
that you know merchants andWalmart as a whole like it's
coming out that if you are not abest in class omni shop omni
brand you are not going to havein-store shelf space.
Like so your digital presence ifit means having the extension of
your brand you know SKU set onmarketplace to make sure because
they share a brand shop you knowit allows that opportunity to
(37:45):
kind of prove prove yourself outbefore going into shelf yeah
yeah yeah for sure those thosethat is the proving ground right
yeah proving ground so yeah soyou know I don't think
marketplaces are going anywhere.
No.
SPEAKER_02 (37:58):
I think more market you know probably more
marketplaces will will end uppopping up.
I think there's still somethings to get figured out but I
do think like you know it it theidea around marketplaces is to
provide can you know moreassortment exactly more you know
potentially value potentiallyconvenience through those
channels like a Walmart orAmazon to get those products
into people's hands.
Obviously a lot of people shopAmazon quite a bit because they
(38:21):
know they can find a greatassortment of items and it you
know it comes with convenienceand so I think we know Walmart's
trying to do the same thing andI think anybody that has a
marketplace that is that is theend yeah that is the intent.
So yeah.
All right let's uh move on toour third and final topic uh
today is you know what happenedto Target's mojo um you know
(38:41):
Target known as Target rightthat's what the cool kids call
it um it was like to me you knowwith with Target you know
they've had some they've they'vekind of taken a a bit of a
downturn for sure um you knowthey haven't been as they
haven't been profitable in inseveral consecutive quarters you
know um you know we were talkingabout previously like the the
(39:04):
state of some of the Targetstores were not what what it
used what they used to be as faras what you know it was kind of
messy, disheveled, you know,etc.
But Mark but Target used to belike where people would go and
buy clothes.
It would be where they would gobuy home goods.
SPEAKER_00 (39:17):
It was a social experience.
Like you could go you would seethe memes about the mom that
went to Target just to grabtoilet paper, toothpaste and
three hours and$300 later she'swalking out with a whole new
pillow set and new sheets and aStarbucks on their way out.
And so they really kind of hadthat experience part of it that
was so big to their in-store andjust the trend side of it.
(39:40):
But yeah they've they've been onthe struggle bus a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (39:44):
And I you know you know people would go to you know
Target had the Pinterest endcaps you know at the end of the
aisle at the end of the aisle.
And I think there's you knowthere's been you know there's
been a transition there has beena change and I think you know
Walmart has definitely I thinkstarted to fill the gap.
I think one of the things thatyou know I was reading was you
know people would spend theirdiscretionary income at Target
(40:08):
and you know their essentials atWalmart right?
Yes.
And so you know again we talkeda little bit about economic
headwinds um earlier right andso I think some of that
discretionary income or dis youknow spending is has been
reduced.
SPEAKER_01 (40:24):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (40:24):
Plus they're going to Walmart.
Now Walmart has also improvedtheir selection like I I don't
think there's such the you knowso i people are looking at
Walmart as a I want to say afashion destination but they're
definitely more open to and andlike the fashion from Walmart I
think they know that Walmart'sgonna have some of the top
(40:45):
trends.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (40:46):
You know maybe not all of them but you know and
especially in like the home sideof it you know that was one we
talked about like they'velaunched the pioneer woman side
of it.
You know they have thesedifferent lines that are
definitely appealing todifferent demographics.
And then you have your DrewBerry more beautiful launch of
all these very aestheticallypleasing items that are
affordable priced.
SPEAKER_01 (41:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (41:05):
And then you have Paris Hilton's new line that
just came out you know and it'sit's everything that you would
expect from Paris Hilton.
And even the same on the apparelyou know seeing the the trends
that come in they've they'vepicked a few and they seem to
have hit well and I will say thequality seems better than it
used to be but I do thinkWalmart stepped up and had been
stepping up and when and toexactly your point people were
(41:29):
going to target with theirdiscretionary funds they
definitely had their loyaliststhat were very heavy app users
and everything else but um I waslooking at a report uh Crazy
coupon lady they do a lot ofsurveys with their database
because they have just such ahigh user base that's one of the
a great thing that you know I'veused them for in my past but on
theirs it was like 32% of um youknow out of the respondents and
(41:51):
there's only like 3,000 inthere.
So it's it's a directional oneat best.
But was these people that theyweren't primary target shoppers
but you know they so theyweren't necessarily loyalists
but they were going in oftenenough and like when they moved
from their DEI stance and theykind of made some of those
choices all these like it's likethe perfect storm.
(42:12):
So people have discretionaryfunds or are getting to where
they have limited discretionaryfunds and they can go to Walmart
and probably find or even aKroger or you know coal or
probably not Kohl's but you knowyou know they're they have other
options.
They have Amazon they have otheroptions and so shoppers speak
with their dollars.
SPEAKER_02 (42:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:31):
Costco has been doing great because of this.
SPEAKER_02 (42:34):
Yeah.
Yeah and I think they may youknow Target made some choices on
their product selection that youknow and in quantities and so
that that's kind of led to someof the challenges on their
bottom line but you know what Ihad you know what I had seen um
what I had seen earlier uh on ain a uh survey at on
powercommerce.com was the shareof Americans who really like or
(42:57):
somewhat like target slid fromaround 70% in early 2023 to
nearly 50% by early 2025.
So that's a very significantdecrease and you know if if
you're not a weekly targetshopper like they don't see the
obviously they don't see thevolume that Walmart might see.
SPEAKER_00 (43:16):
And so that those numbers impact uh them even even
even more so well right andgoing back to the shelf issue if
I have tried going into a storenot just target any of them but
I go in two or three times andwhat I am going in there for is
either the selection's not therebecause something's out of stock
you know all those differentissues or if the food is so
close to spoil date that it'snot even worth buying most
(43:39):
shoppers aren't very patientanymore because they have so
many other options.
Yeah so many options you know soeven though all of these
missteps may have been slight ornot that big had it been the
solo item.
Yeah um I don't know it kind ofwhat was it the death by a
thousand paper cuts?
SPEAKER_02 (43:55):
Yeah a thousand but yeah death death by a thousand
papers.
SPEAKER_00 (43:57):
I think they have an opportunity to turn it around.
SPEAKER_02 (43:59):
What what will it take?
What do you think?
What do you think it'll take forthem?
SPEAKER_00 (44:02):
I want to see so when this new leadership comes
in he's supposed to startJanuary 2026 I think and he's
already internal target so buthis one of his statements was
let's be unapologetically targetand I am hoping that is the
target of pre-COVID days.
SPEAKER_01 (44:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (44:17):
You know I I hope that that target is coming back
because I would still love to beable to go in there and have an
experience but it's just notthat right now to the point it's
messy.
They are doing really well inplaying cards.
And I don't know if that'sbecause the foot traffic is down
overall and so people thatcollect like these Pokemon and
basically cards I gotcha.
SPEAKER_02 (44:35):
Not playing cards.
SPEAKER_00 (44:37):
I'm just a mom.
I I just buy them for the kids.
SPEAKER_02 (44:39):
Yes the Pokemon cards.
SPEAKER_00 (44:40):
But I know if we go to Target we can usually find
what we want compared to others.
And I think maybe that's incorrelation with the decreased
foot traffic is just not as manypeople are going in and so when
you go in there's a betterchance that you're gonna be able
to find those you know whateverPokemon pack that you're you
know hoping to get a a whateverin.
SPEAKER_02 (44:59):
Here first here's a pro tip for all you Pokemon card
go to target collectors go to goto Target.
SPEAKER_00 (45:04):
And you know what they always say to look under
the shelf I've we've lookedseveral times and I've never
actually found any cool cardsunder there.
SPEAKER_02 (45:10):
So yeah awesome okay well yeah I think Target
definitely has someopportunities ahead.
I don't think we've heardobviously heard the last from
Target.
SPEAKER_00 (45:19):
I think there's they're positioned to do so
well.
Yeah and I'm I'm hoping thatthey can go back and be
unapologetically targeted.
SPEAKER_02 (45:26):
Yeah cool.
All right so we're gonna get nowto the final well second and
final anyway part of our podcastwhich is our little game so
we're gonna do vibe check todayand so I'm gonna I'm gonna give
you some some statements and Iwant you just to give me your
gut reaction.
So um don't think it don'toverthink it.
(45:47):
Just let me know you know justlet me know what you think
alright.
So um are you ready?
SPEAKER_00 (45:52):
I'm ready.
SPEAKER_02 (45:53):
Alright so first one ROAS is still worth measuring
gut reaction.
SPEAKER_00 (46:00):
Oh hey this is a family show is a no way it no
way no way alright oh you knowwhat I'll take that back I will
never say no way on anything butit shouldn't be your only and
strongest measurement indicatorof success.
SPEAKER_02 (46:15):
Yes I agree with that I agree with that
marketplaces are doing more harmthan good for big brands.
No, I think if they use it rightit's good for them okay um
visual search is cool tech butmost shoppers are not going to
use it adoption time it needsadoption time retailtainment
(46:40):
only works if it translates tosales no no all right the return
of extra value meals will focwill force a fast food war I
think we saw talk about that Ihope so you hope so alright well
I don't I think of peoplethrowing fast food so that's I
don't know if I really want thatto happen.
SPEAKER_00 (46:57):
I mean again remember I I have four boys like
yeah that it wouldn't even fazeme I I'd cheer for it fall is
better than spring we'll end iton that one.
Yes fall is better than spring Ilove it fall is my favorite
season so it's great.
It's I like both but yeah I likefootball and Halloween and the
(47:19):
cooler weather weather thepretty leaves yeah all of it I
love it I love it I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (47:25):
Alright party people it is time to wrap up this
episode of Retail Media Vibes.
I hope you've enjoyed the showtoday I want to say a special
thank you to Cassie for being onthe show today and sharing all
of your vibes with us.
Any last words anything you'dlike to plug or talk about today
before we wrap?
SPEAKER_00 (47:43):
Yeah I mean first thank you so much for having me.
This has been great anytime youneed anything and then anybody
if you're watching this and youhave questions you can find me
on LinkedIn ask questions like Ilove to talk about this stuff
and if you can't tell I get kindof chatty so let me know.
But the other thing I you know alittle bit more serious of a
note I am the president for ourNorthwest Arkansas Women's
(48:04):
Shelter and as a wholenonprofits over the entire U.S.
are going to be having financingstruggles so if you have a cause
that's near and dear to you inyour local community or here try
to find a way to support them.
There's a lot of federal cutsgoing on right now that are
gonna it's going to make thesenonprofits shut their doors.
And that means that there'snobody to help those people in
(48:26):
need.
So it doesn't have to be thewomen's shelter but if you want
to help support let me know.
But there's there's so many.
SPEAKER_02 (48:33):
So take some time invest in your local community
if you can awesome yeah it's Imean definitely those are um
those nonprofits are definitelyworth supporting in any way we
possibly can.
So all right will you come backto the show if I invite you
absolutely yeah all right wellgood I I I like I love hearing
that.
SPEAKER_00 (48:51):
In fact if a fast food war does start to happen
let's do one and I'll bring myfavorite fast food and you can
bring yours and we'll talk aboutwhich one's actually a value
meal.
SPEAKER_02 (48:59):
Which one is the true value?
We'll do the math right whichone's a true value yeah we'll do
some things we'll bring it downby calorie or something like
that dollar per calorie.
SPEAKER_00 (49:06):
Yeah and then we may not want to eat it after we do
that.
SPEAKER_02 (49:08):
Maybe maybe not maybe not um so in the few in a
future podcast I plan to do amailbag segment that ask BV
almost anything so if you haveany questions you'd like me to
answer in a future podcast sendthat to retailmedia vibes at
gmail.com I'll collect those andgo through them and we'll do a a
(49:29):
mailbag segment.
So I hope you enjoyed today'spodcast please share it with a
friend just in please subscriberetail media vibes it's on all
of the different podcastnetworks it's obviously also on
YouTube.
So uh with that uh thank you somuch for listening and I promise
to do better next time.
(49:49):
See ya
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