Ep. 6 - First Five Recap: Summerween, CTV, and Work Slop

Missed the first five episodes? We stitched the best insights into one high-energy tour through what’s actually moving shoppers and budgets right now. From Halloween arriving in July to AI that can buy for you, we dig into the hits, the misses, and the money-makers.

We kick off with Summerween, where retailers extend the season and capture early spend without feeling forced. Then we shift to agentic shopping—the idea that AI agents handle the repetitive, low-risk purchases and increasingly the shortlist for bigger ones. Trust, transparency, and clear opt-ins will drive adoption this holiday season, and we share the guardrails that make it work. The brand-versus-shopper debate gets a fresh look through the lens of first-party data at scale: why building brands inside retail ecosystems can accelerate conversion and loyalty when done right.

Connected TV steals the spotlight with surging retail media investment and the promise of closing the loop. We talk about when shoppable overlays beat the scroll and how to design incentives that overcome second-screen distraction. On measurement, we tackle the ROAS trap and lay out a practical stack: incrementality, retailer attribution, MMM, and KPI alignment by tactic. The gaming segment explores safe, authentic ways to show up—native integrations, limited digital items, and digital-physical twins that create real value without breaking immersion.

We round it out with store tech that actually helps—think app-first wayfinding and contextual offers over expensive cart hardware—and a reality check on “work slop,” or AI output that creates rework when nobody owns accuracy. For dessert, we break down hype marketing that lasts: smart collabs, limited drops, and timing that feeds long-term loyalty. Ready to retool your retail media playbook before the holidays? Listen, share with a teammate, and tell us your boldest prediction. If you’re enjoying the show, subscribe, leave a quick review, and pass this episode to someone who loves both strategy and sell-through.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_05 (00:08):
What's up, party people?
BV here, and welcome to aspecial edition for episode six
of Retail Media Vibes, a doingbusiness in Bettonville podcast.
We are recording live at PodcastVideo Studios here in Rogers,
Arkansas.
So this edition of Retail MediaVibes is going to be a little
bit different.

(00:28):
Um, I've had some amazing guestson the show for episodes one
through five, and I thought it'dbe great to bring back some of
the great uh guests and their uhopinions, their thoughts, their
their emotions, their vibes,everything that they brought to
each of those episodes and bringthem into a single show so you

(00:49):
can kind of catch up on all thethings that have been happening
so far with retail media vibes.
So, episode one, the firstepisode, the pilot episode, if
you will, of Retail Media Vibes,I had on my good friend and
retail media expert, Tom Bryden.
And we had such a good time onthe show, and we really uh vibed

(01:13):
around agentic shopping andsummer ween and you know brand
marketing versus shoppermarketing.
So we really had a greatconversation about that.
And so now we're going to relivesome of the best parts of
episode one.
First topic we have is summerween.
I know that I just what did Ijust say, right?

(01:34):
Summer ween.
So I mean, it's basicallyHalloween in the middle of the
summer.
So this has been like a a trendthat was happening on social
where people were you knowstarting to get in the
Halloween, we'll call it theHalloween spirit, no pun
intended.
Okay, the Halloween spirit inthe middle of July, you know,

(01:56):
June, June and July, right?
And so, you know, retailers arereally leaning into it.
Um, I was in Lowe's the otherday, and they've got this, you
know, you know, 30-foot zombiein there or something like that,
you know, hanging out.
And so this, and this is August,right?
So, you know, like well beforeOctober.
So it feels like the retailersare getting into it.

(02:16):
Walmart's definitely gettinginto it.
Um, Michael's, so they'regetting the jack-o'-lanterns,
the skeletons, candy, decor.
They're just pulling it out wayin front of uh way in front of
October.
And it's it's booming.
Like Halloween sales last yearwere$11.6 billion, and nearly
half of those shoppers now startbuying before October.

(02:38):
So that's that's a huge, youknow, huge, huge amount of money
uh well well before October whenyou think people start thinking
about it.
Right.
So, you know, Summerween.
So is this something just madeup to be a marketing stunt now,
or is this really becoming uh aretail strategy?
So, you know, what do you think?
Do you think retailers arepushing it shoppers into

(02:59):
Summerween?
Or do you think you know theshoppers in the social media
culture is pushing retailersinto jump in a little bit early?
What are you what are yourthoughts?

SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
Yeah, I mean, I do think there's a cultural
component to it.
Um there's also uh a US cultureversus other countries component
to it as well, I think.
Like something I noticed havinglived here for 10 years, is that
you know the US goes big onholidays in general, which is
just which is great.
I think it's awesome that wecelebrate these big seasonal

(03:29):
temple things.
Right.
Um I personally feel it's a bitearly.
Uh it's you know, October wherewe live is full foliage and
cooler mornings.
And yeah, uh it's tough for meto uh it's tough for me to get
in the Halloween spirit.
But that being said, it works.
Like, you know, if you canextend out a big buying period,

(03:52):
um there is an opportunity toincrease revenue, um, especially
if you're a brand that naturallyand organically plays in that
space.
So I can see the benefit of itfrom a brand and retailer
standpoint.
And if you know the the averageconsumer is embracing it and
doesn't feel that it's kind ofoff topic or too early, then

(04:13):
then why not?

SPEAKER_05 (04:14):
Yeah.
I mean, it feels like it alsofits a certain niche of people
who are really into Halloween,right?
And so starts to get them intothe spirit.
Also, yeah, to your point, ifyou start to extend the season,
you know, incrementally, there'sopportunity to, you know, grow,
grow revenue, right?
You know, make make more salesuh during that period of time.

(04:35):
So, you know, if if you wereadvising a brand, which you do
often, right, would you tellthem to lean into Summerween uh
or just kind of wait it out alittle bit longer to see?
Like, cause I think it's it'sit's interesting to figure out
how how certain brands couldplay, right?
Other than the people who arecreating just these products

(04:56):
that you know are sold forHalloween for decor or candy or
et cetera.

SPEAKER_02 (04:59):
Yeah.
I mean, I'm a media guy, so I'malways gonna go with the data.
Uh which is what's the data say?
Yeah, it's not it's not a sexyanswer, but I I think there is
data that you could draw upon interms of consumer trends and you
know, social listening andthings that you could do to
inform that decision.
It's probably too late now ifyou're a sleeve, but like if
that if that does become a trendnext year and that's something

(05:21):
that you want to plan for, andyour brands like the key thing
here is the brands that need tobe thinking about it, they need
to make sense in that space.
Right.
One of the worst decisionsbrands can make, in my opinion,
is forcing themselves into amovement or a conversation where
they just don't play.
Yeah, and then it feels falseand it feels unauthentic.

(05:41):
Yeah.
Um, for retailers, absolutely.
We I took my my little girl,she's six, to Walmart the other
day, and they had the pumpkinsout and you know, the decor
pumpkins, and she thought it wasthe best thing ever and wanted
me to buy one.
So it works.
There's a real life example ofhow it works.
Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_05 (05:58):
It's a so you bought that pumpkin, and you probably
will buy more things the nexttime you go, right?
Because every time you go withyour kid, yeah, they're gonna
hit you up for the for the nextthing.

SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
One of those stores that pop up on Halloween Spirit
Halloween.
Yeah, spirit Halloween.
Yeah, yeah.
So with that's our house.
That's that's basically well.

SPEAKER_05 (06:14):
So you're really leaning into Halloween as a
family.
Yeah, my wife loves Halloween.
That's good.
That's good.
So we're gonna talk aboutagentic shopping, right?
So AI agents, I mean, I thinkoverall that's just a huge
topic.
There are all kinds of agentsthat are being used or uh being
planned to be used in retail.
And honestly, it's probably toobig for just this one podcast,

(06:36):
right?
So we're not gonna go into allof them, but we're gonna talk
about agentic shoppingspecifically.
You know, that's the idea of AIfinding and buying the stuff you
want automatically with, youknow, minimal, you know,
intervention, right?
Um, or practically zerointervention.
And everybody's everybody isworking on this, right?

(06:57):
So you've got open AI,perplexity, Google, Walmart,
Amazon, everybody'sexperimenting, everybody's
trying to figure it out, right?
And so, you know, I thinkshoppers are kind of curious
about it, but I don't thinkadoption is is low.
And I don't, honestly, I don'tthink the tech is quite, quite
there yet.
And honestly, the valueproposition, like, when is it

(07:18):
the right time to use a gentichshopping?
When is it not?
Like, are you gonna you're gonnause it for your everyday
essentials like toilet paper,but maybe not for if you're
gonna buy a couch, right?
So it's like I think finding theright use cases for this and
having the right tech and righttools um does seem to be, you
know, kind of the balance thatit you know, everybody's trying

(07:38):
to figure out.
And so, and then plus, you know,consumer behavior needs to
change, right?
And so there's got there's anevolution.
It doesn't usually happen justovernight.
So trying to figure all thatout.
So, you know, if shoppers rightnow are, I guess they're getting
more used to using AI fordiscovery, like how do I find
something?
Hey, find me this, find me that,find me the other.

(07:59):
What do you think really needsto happen for them to kind of
take that next step and look atusing AI or agents or some
technology that buys things ontheir behalf?

SPEAKER_02 (08:11):
Yeah.
I mean, Essentia's hugely intothe AI space.
So we have a lot of discussionsaround this and not just what's
available now, but where will itgo in the next six months, 12
months, you know, right?
As you know, this is such arapidly evolving space, right?
What you know now is going to beoutdated by the end of the year.
So it I think if I look at if Iif I take your adoption question

(08:35):
first, like I, you know, I wouldlook at something like if I made
an equivalent or a comparison,that's what I like to do when
I'm thinking about adoption,which is like if I look at the
iPhone, the way that you used tounlock the iPhone was you had to
put in a pin.
And then it moved to fingerprintID.
Yep.
And everyone there was outcryabout that.

(08:56):
There was, I don't want myfingerprint in a database and
PII and short things.
Yeah, very much.
Yeah.
Apple kind of said tough luckand kept going, and people
adopted it.
Then face ID came in, and peoplegot even more upset about face
ID because they felt like it wasa an infringement on their
personal space.
Well, now 50% of the worldunlocks their phone with their

(09:18):
face, probably more so if youcount all the out the now you
can get through security in theairport with just with your
face, right?
So I know it's not that's notexactly what you're asking me,
but if I think about if I linkit to giving up control and
doing something that maybe feelsstrange now, but won't in six
months, a year's time, I couldsee this topic and agentic

(09:42):
shopping going that way.
I think exactly what you saidthough.
I think people will start withthe mundane, the repetitive, the
low risk in terms of costelements of it.
But you know, you you don't youdon't go to a travel agent now
to book your flights.
You go online and book them andyou hand over thousands of
dollars and you trust that whenyou do that, the airline or the

(10:02):
hotel company is is legit.
True.
Um, and so, you know, I would bean early adopter of that, I
think for sure.

SPEAKER_05 (10:09):
Yeah, I think this coming holiday season is gonna
be a key time for this, right?
So, you know, with everybodyworking on this and you know,
the idea that you know consumerand shopper behavior may be
adjusting, like I think there isgonna be an opportunity to
really see what the appetite iswith the general public, um,

(10:32):
with with uh, you know, using AIfor shopping in a lot of
different ways, you know,potentially even uh even a
gentic as well.

SPEAKER_02 (10:39):
I think one of the one of the patterns or trends
that I've seen is the ongoingtension between what you would
consider brand level marketingand media, and then shopper
retail focused marketing andmedia.
Yep.
And for me, you know, if you ifyou're gonna ask me for a hot

(11:01):
take on that, I think there's aworld in which they both play
together.
But at the end of the day, likeif I was to ask you, like, why
does a company want to build abrand, what would your what
would your answer be to that?
Uh to sell products, right?
To you know, to make money,right?
To to to generate revenue.

SPEAKER_04 (11:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
And the two primary ways you can do that are a D2C
solution or or a retaillocation.
Yeah.
Um so if your ultimate goal isto drive conversion and loyalty,
because you believe in thebrand, loyalty is a another
topic we could spend probablyhours talking about.
But if that's your ultimate goalis to drive conversion, why are

(11:43):
more brands not focusing theirbrand building activities around
highly scalable retailecosystems?
Walmart has 95% householdpenetration, right?
Amazon is a a beam off ofe-commerce opportunities, and
Walmart is very quickly catchingup on that, along with the

(12:03):
targets, the Krogers, et cetera,et cetera.
So I was just interested in yourtake.
You know, you've worked on somesome huge brands.
Like have you seen a shift interms of companies now being
more willing to try and build abrand leveraging the scale and
first-party data and theassociated attribution of
retail?
Or do you do you still see it aswe have brand level activity and

(12:26):
we have shopper and there's thisgray area in the middle?

SPEAKER_05 (12:29):
Okay, so for episode two, I had on Brad Godwin.
I like to call Brad Godwin Mr.
Vibes himself.
Uh Brad is uh a good friend andyou know, he's a very chill and
really loves to connect with theemotional side and the humanity
side of the work and the thingsthat he does.
So, you know, it was great tohave Brad on.

(12:50):
And, you know, we had a chanceto really talk about, you know,
some of the growing pains thatretail media is going through,
you know, how to, you know, becourageous in the creative work
that we do, and then really lookat what the future uh
potentially could be for retailmedia and and marketing.
So, you know, with that, we'regonna go ahead and hear some of

(13:12):
the highlights from Brad'sepisode.
To be able to engage with myfamily in a meaningful way, too,
which is just awesome.
Yeah, it does definitely bringthe family together.
Um, and there's obviously thatfeeling of nostalgia is a very
powerful feeling and the abilityto bring your family together
around some of these, you know,IP is is super, super cool.
For for me when my kids wereyoung, it was Star Wars.

(13:33):
Like Star Wars is really whatbrought us together and
Spider-Man, you know, andsomebody so Marvel, and
obviously, you know, they'veit's all expanded from there.
So yeah, really cool.
Really cool.
All right, let's move on now tolet's talk about some topics,
right?
Let's I mean I think you and Icould just chit-chat all day,
but that's not what everybodywants to hear, right?
They they want us to talk aboutsome things that might be going

(13:56):
on in the in the retail space,in the media space.
So let's let's let's do a coupleof quick hints right out the
gate, right?
So this just happened, you know,just this week, Taco Bell.
All right, Taco Bell.
Like, I know how much you loveTaco Bell.
Taco Bell is rethinking using AIin the drive-thru.
And this was obviously uhrelated to some things that

(14:19):
happened.
I think some guy ordered like18,000 waters from you know,
it's like, okay, maybe you know,maybe AI wasn't the right
solution there.
I think sometimes we're throwingAI at the wrong things to solve.
And I'm not saying whether ornot Taco that's the right thing
or not, but you know, but youknow, what was your gut reaction
when you heard that to me it waslike duh, you know, not a

(14:42):
surprise.

SPEAKER_03 (14:43):
Yeah, I I think I had two visceral reactions.
One one is, what in the worldare they thinking?
And two is I know exactly whatthey're thinking.
Taco Bell just wants to betalked about.
Yeah.
And they have been the leader inQSR for decades in doing things
that were crazy.

SPEAKER_05 (15:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (15:01):
Yeah.
Not necessarily for those thingsthemselves to be the
profitability driver of thebusiness.
But guess what?
It's called burned media.
Oh, yeah.
And guess what?
We're talking about it onpodcast.
Yes, yes.
Because of that, right?
And so I think so much of whatthey do, and I think the folks I
I knew some folks that worked inbrand there, they were looking

(15:22):
for shock value.
Um, and I think that it they'vereally re-imagined that brand
over the last decade into a onethat Gen Z resonates with.
Yeah.
And so whether things work ordon't work from a functional
quantitative did, oh my gosh,this doesn't make any sense.
I think some of it, I don't wantto say it's a PR stunt

(15:43):
necessarily.
Um, but I don't think they hateit.
Right that it got picked up andknocked about and went by
either.

SPEAKER_05 (15:49):
So and I think, you know, different companies are
gonna try AI in different ways,and sometimes it's gonna work
out and sometimes it does.
And and to be fair, Taco Bell isnot the only quick uh QSR that
uses AI in the drive-thru,right?
So it's just there's rethinkingit a little bit.
Totally so.
Um, another quick hit is so theuh UK retailer Tesco, they I

(16:13):
just launched an avocado tester.
Like I love avocado, I eatavocado a lot.
But this this avocado tester isuh it's like a is a handheld
scanner that will scan youravocado and tell you how ripe,
ripe it is.
Um, so that obviously that's alittle bit closer to the retail
that we know and love on a dailybasis for sure.

(16:34):
But like, you know, is that justtechnology for technology's
sake?
Do you see that really somethingthat I think more more stores
should adopt?
Like, I I mean, what's what areyour thoughts?

SPEAKER_03 (16:45):
Yeah, uh I actually was having lunch with uh a
merchant at Walmart yesterday,and we were talking about not
just this specific topic of uhof the avocado, but like, what
are pain points for shoppersthat might not come out like
just in data?
Right.
Right.
And you have to kind of watchand start to talk.
And you know, one of the thingsI think for me, I love making

(17:07):
homemade guacamole.
Yeah, there's nothing worse thangetting avocados and cutting
into them and being like, theseare garbage.
Yeah, can't use now.
I got so stoked.
My wife specifically got stokedfor fresh table side guac at
home to no, we're not having it,or if we try to have it, it

(17:27):
tastes like garbage, right?
And so I think that's reallymeeting a need.
I don't think it's tech for techsake.
I think it's going, hey, there'sa human problem of I can't see
inside this thing.

SPEAKER_05 (17:37):
And I think, you know, like you have it in this
world where retail media expertsare not necessarily all going to
be falling from the trees,you've got to figure out a way
to do a ground up approach aswell, almost an apprenticeship
model and have a have astructured training type of
development plan, like helppeople understand and all of the

(17:59):
different aspects, right?
That that in that go intotoday's retail media, retail
marketer, omnichannel, shoppermarket, whatever you want to
call it, because it has like 52names.
But I do think it's it's thatdevelopment and that structure
has to be there.
Otherwise, you know, nobody hastime to just, oh, well, come

(18:20):
along with me to this meetingand you'll figure it out as we
go.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (18:23):
Yeah.
And it's interesting the wordexpert that gets thrown around a
lot.
Yeah, like you'll read a jobdescription, it's like, oh, we
need 15 years experience.
Like if you go into any otherfield, psychology, I have a lot
of friends that are like incounseling or therapist, law.
Yeah.
Experts is like decades.
Right.

(18:44):
Yeah.
This hasn't even really beenaround for decades.
No.
This is a relatively newdiscipline.
And so I do think that the theongoing curiosity of
individuals, like I think thisis great to have the
conversation for companies, butif you're a listener and you're
going, hey, I'm sitting here inNorthwest Arkansas and I'm a
national account manager, I'm insales, or I'm a merchant at

(19:09):
Walmart, right or at Sam's Club,or you know, whatever, to be
able to say there's a curiosityof ongoing learning.
And I think what you're speakingto with those Walmart Connect
certifications and the onlinetraining portal.
I mean, that's best in class,right?
Because you can come on andstart with basic and get to, I
would say relatively complex,and that's up to you.

(19:31):
Yeah.
They put that in the the handsof the user.
And so if that's somethingyou're sitting here going, oh,
this is really interesting, thenoh, yeah, maybe right.
I think five years ago it was anice to have.
Yeah.
But it wasn't a mandatorydepending on your role.
Yeah.
But I think now in 2025 and aswe go into 2026, everyone in the

(19:54):
organization needs to have someknowledge, at least at a
theoretical level, of how isthis, how does it work, and what
is the impact.

SPEAKER_05 (20:03):
And how is it different?
Right.
Totally.
And I think I think that's thepart that gets missed quite
often is like, how is thisdifferent?
We're just talking about bannerads, right?
You know, and it's it's notthere's more more to it than and
again, as we mentioned thisearlier, but as you know, retail
media continues to expand andyou know, more tactics start to
get thrown in the bucket, likehow do you make all of those

(20:27):
work and orchestrate media thatis actually going to to work for
that specific retailer for yourbrand?
Absolutely.
So awesome.
Yeah, I'm really interested inthe space.
And again, as I haveconversations with more and more
people and just you know, tryingto hear more about like how
things are continuing to growand evolve in the space.

(20:47):
And so, you know, we'll we'llsee how it how it shakes out.
Man, it's a crazy time for surein retail media.
All right, so we're gonna moveon to our our next topic.
And it's still talking aboutretail media, but we're actually
talking about another anotherchannel within the retail media
space that all of a sudden haskind of blown up, I guess, this

(21:09):
year.
So last year, it was in-storeretail media, was all the buzz.
Everyone's talking aboutin-store retail media.
And like, how do we, you know,how do you do it?
And uh, retailers were investingin signage, uh, you know, TV
screens and stores.
Um, but now it feels like that'spivoted a little bit.
And now the new darling isconnected TV or CTB, right?

(21:32):
And so retail media connected TVad spend is gonna is plan on
growing uh almost almost 50%,45.5% this year.
And it's growing three timesfaster than retail search, which
is not necessarily a surprisebecause I feel like retail
search is pretty saturated,right?
Kind of hit hit that saturationpoint, but it's definitely
growing.
Um by 2027, one in five USconnected TV ad dollars could

(21:58):
flow through retail medianetworks.
So again, it's continuing to uhmore and more money is getting
put into that.
Walmart acquired Visio, right?
So that was a big play for forthem in 2024.
Amazon obviously has Prime Videoand they have ads in Prime
Video, so they're playing a bigpart.
And obviously, Walmart andAmazon are the big players in in

(22:19):
retail media.
Um but you know, you in those inthose scenarios, now you're
starting to see some of theseways in which you can exit the
funnel, you know, intoconversion, right?
Or at least these attempts to dothat, whether it be a a QR code
or you take your remote and youcan add something and send it to

(22:39):
your phone with certain withcertain networks.
Like, I mean, I I do that out ofcuriosity as a as a marketer and
really curious and interested.
Like, do you feel do you feelthat others are doing that as
well?
Do we is is this is this justkind of a ruse?
I want to say ruse, but is thisreally just a way like, oh, this
is a top of the funnelopportunity awareness, but guess

(23:03):
what?
You can also sell something atthe same time so we get the
inject out of the funnel at a sat a at a different part, right?
So I I'm just curious on whatyour point of view is on really
on on the part of how do youtransact or how you convert with
these when really if you everlooked at a commercial before,
it was always about awareness,telling the story, trying to

(23:26):
brand lift, et cetera.
Now we're we're giving theseexit strategies.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (23:30):
Well, first off, we got to give a moment to whoever
the PR person is for QR codes.
Because I mean they they came,then they went.
Yes, they got ushered back induring COVID, yeah, and now they
are back in full force, right?
So don't call it a comeback.
It's a comeback, come back ofthe year QR codes.

(23:52):
Um, but I think, you know, asyou were referencing, I just
love to look at human behavior.
I think human behavior is inwatching my kids, watching my
spouse, watching like observingmyself and my own behavior.
And then this is a confession,uh, real-world confession here
of like most of the time whenthere is something on the TV, I

(24:15):
am primarily looking at my phonefirst.
Yep.
Um, and so I think that could bereally interesting as a 2.0 of
connected TV of will they everbe able to tell that, hey, I'm
watching this screen.
I also have, I'm in thishousehold and I'm on this
device.
Is there a way to marry those?
Could be simultaneously, alittle, maybe a little freaky

(24:38):
for Sar, but like I think thecapability can be there to
achieve that.
But I do think it's one of thosenow, it's not every commercial
is shoppable, but I do thinkit's going to get to a place
where everyone starts to do it.
Right.
Go, like, at what point is thatcontent that compelling?

(24:58):
Right.
That you're gonna stopeverything.
That I'm gonna stop everythingelse I'm doing to scan that to
now.
I think if it's like, let's saythere's a promotion.
Yeah, absolutely promotion.
Like I can save a dollar off.
I think promotion, that could bea huge unlock.
I think sweepstakes, like, hey,enter to win.
Oh, I watch this.

(25:19):
Oh, I can enter a window trip toHawaii from you know, Sunmade.
Yeah, the brand.

SPEAKER_05 (25:25):
The incentive has to overcome the friction totally,
right?
And so if the if the in theformula, right, if the incentive
is strong enough, then you willget people to to do it, right?
And I mean that you you see thatin in any situation.
You have a you have a display instore that's talking about a
sweepstake.

(25:45):
It's if if it's easy for someoneto sign up, then they will go.
If the if the value of the prizeis a million, you put a you put
a NCAP or you put a display in ain a in a store that says you
can win a million dollars, Iguarantee you're gonna get a lot
of entries, right?
I mean, it's that's just becausethat's you know, the the that
equation, that value equationfor time versus effort leans

(26:08):
towards I'll put in the effort.
Yeah, I I think, you know, I dothink like connected TV, like
anything to your point, it itdepends on what you're trying to
achieve and what you're you'rewhat you're trying to do.
You're trying to get eyeballs,you're trying to get attention,
your audience is on thatspecific, you know, programming.
Um, you know, you you may be anunderdeveloped brand or new

(26:30):
product and you're trying tobring it to market and you get a
due education.
Like there, I think there is adefinitely, definitely a lot of
a lot of opportunity.
And I do think there is more tothinking about how do you, what
does conversion really looklike, right?
And I think also the measurementside of things aren't really
well developed as well.
And um at that stage, I I mean,I'm sure you know a lot of reach

(26:51):
really smart retailers are arefiguring that out.
So I'm not I'm not saying thatit won't ever, ever get there.
But um, I think that also whenyou look at how much it's gonna
cost to do this and what themeasurement and value you get
out of it, if you're not lookingat things holistically, it may
not look like the best decisionevery single time for sure.
Yeah.

(27:11):
All right.
So for episode three, I had onmy good friend Cassie Murray.
Uh Cassie, I've known for a longtime.
She, you know, she's worked witha lot of brands and she's always
had a great sense around, youknow, measurement and you know,
what really matters when tryingto determine if a campaign is
successful, if retail media issuccessful.

(27:32):
So we really focused a lot ofthe conversation around
marketplaces and measurement.
And so it was really great tohave her authentic voice in that
conversation to really bring tolight some of the challenges and
possibly opportunities that wehave in retail media around
measurement as well.
So let's roll it with Cassie.

SPEAKER_00 (27:52):
Create a more competitive space.
I mean, we know shoppers arealready doing it on their
phones, like when they're instores, it's not uncommon for
somebody to price check largeritems.
But if it's something you needshipped to maybe, I don't know,
toilet paper or something likenot that an instant need or like
that you're just looking at andlike maybe, oh, maybe Amazon has
it cheaper.
And depending on you know theirsystems, because you know

(28:13):
they're such a closed loopsystem with all of their media,
could they know that you'reabout to purchase and you know,
suggest that you price checkwhile you're out sharping?
Like, will it get to that point?
I don't know.
I'm well I like it.

SPEAKER_05 (28:29):
And so they're using that data as you're using that
live search to inform theirsystems in order to, you know,
for whatever reason, right?
And you know, make a betterproduct selection, hit you with
ads, you know, whatever theythey they might do that for.

SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
Oh, I think we'll see.
I like you said in theadvertising and maybe even
potentially in social, you know,they integrate and listen.
So like, you know, people arebuying those media or those
audiences, be like, oh, somebodythat has been scanning a lot of
this aesthetic type item, and sothey know that they could target
those people.
I always tell people whenpeople, you know, they go on the
government rants about, oh, thegovernment's tracking me.
I'm like, it is not.
I mean, they are maybe, but it'sme.

(29:06):
It's people like me, it'smarketers.
Yeah, exactly.
We are tracking you guys on ascary, scary level sometimes.
Aaron Powell, I feel a littlebad about that.
I do sometimes.
Just a little, just sometimes.

SPEAKER_05 (29:14):
All right.
All right, let's move on to ournext quick hit.
So Walmart is, you know, Walmarttalks has talked a lot about
retailtainment over the years,right?
And that was one of the areasthat you said you've enjoyed
quite a bit.
Uh so Walmart is taking the ideafrom a TikTok FYP or for you
page and bringing it to lifethrough a road tour, right?

(29:36):
So they're gonna havesemi-trucks that are traveling
around to different events indifferent locations, not just
Walmart parking lots, but otherlocations.
And so there a lot of these arecentered around Gen Z interests.
There's K pop, retro gaming,there's a rodeo truck, there's a
nature truck, and there's evenone for like workout, post, post
workout, and self, self care.

(29:57):
So it's it's it's really tryingto bring, you know.
know what people interact withon screens and trying to bring
it into real life.
So you've got this this thistransition of social media to
the physical environment.
And so, you know, do these doyou feel like like
retailtainment and things likethis and what Walmart is doing
with FYP, do you feel like itreally makes a difference?

(30:19):
Is it, you know, is it reallybring shoppers to retail?
Does it really build brands?
Like what are your thoughtsaround, you know, an activity
like this?

SPEAKER_00 (30:28):
And I think that's important also is like when
especially when we kind of hiton measurement later on in this
section, like it's brandbuilding, but they are hard to
generate a profitable returnbecause of the expense that goes
into creating the assets, thethe fuel, the travel time, the
just the people, all thedifferent certifications and
insurances that you have to do.

(30:48):
Like so brand building, but youneed to look at it from what it
is and not necessarily from justa straight ROAS perspective.
There is going to be a more longtail opportunity on those than
an immediate, we just saw a 7%lift at store XYZ, you know,
because we had the truck there.
Like that's hopefully that isnot the expectation and they

(31:09):
will appreciate it for what itis.

SPEAKER_05 (31:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cool.
All right.
So the last quick hit we haveMcDonald's, right?
Not not typically a retailmedia, but yes for bear with me
for a second.
Um and I'm trying to I'm notgonna rant I promise.
But McDonald's just recentlybrought back extra value meals.

(31:30):
I think I remember whenMcDonald's started extra value
meals.
I think at that time extra valuemeals were maybe like$299.
Right.
Extra value meals are eightdollars, Cassie, eight dollars
like that, you know, I know themeals themselves are like$12
ish,$12 to$13, I think now in ina lot of ways.

(31:52):
But$8, I mean that's that'squite quite high.

SPEAKER_00 (31:55):
I feel like it's a much bigger like those those two
numbers are way closer togetherthan they used to be too right.
Like because the value mill wastwo, three dollars and back then
a full meal was like you knowprobably around 10 still maybe
eight to ten, but that's asignificant savings gap.
And now we're going eight to youknow H12, we're shortening that
you know space and so it's notreally a value.

SPEAKER_05 (32:17):
Yeah.
Do you think like other otherQSR uh restaurants are also
going to you know amplify theirvalue menu so to speak and you
know is is you know theirquestions of whether or not
what's happening with theeconomy and you know economic
headwinds as I like to sayeconomic headwinds.
But like the when when thefinancial time financial and

(32:40):
economic times get a little bittough brands start to talk more
about value, right?
So they can kind of maintain aprice point that's reasonable
but you're getting more for yourmoney.
So you know value is obviously akey term.
Do you think this will start atrend of price wars of value
meals across the QSR landscape?

SPEAKER_00 (32:59):
I sure hope so.
Like I mean because even I knowSonic has started with like a
you know like a little two tothree dollar subset menu in the
app and Taco Bell has theirs andI've started noticing um because
I get the Sonic pushnotification that they've been
pushing a lot more, it feelslike lately than they have
historically.
But yeah, all of us are going tobe facing the same problem that
QSR is it's it's going to becomea share of dollar conversation.

(33:22):
Right.
And so you have to establish thevalue, you know, the QSR is
there for of convenience andconvenience is key right now.
So they'll probably do fine.
But yeah, I would I hope theydo.
I want to see some like goodsocial media wars with like
Burger King talking you knowsmack to Wendy's talking smack
up McDonald's about their valuemeal and it's not actually a
value.

SPEAKER_05 (33:42):
Yeah.
Yeah for sure for sure.

SPEAKER_00 (33:43):
It's always good entertainment.

SPEAKER_05 (33:44):
Yeah.
Yeah we'll see we'll see howthat goes and get your Big Mac
meal for$8 and your sausageMcMuffin with egg meal for five.

SPEAKER_00 (33:53):
I'm just I'm gonna do a happy meal I guess and get
this I get a toy with it orsomething better about it.

SPEAKER_05 (33:57):
That could be a whole other topic for another
day those those promotions andincentives all right so all
right so that was the quickhits.
So now let's get into our biggermediator I guess topics and I
mean we just talked abouthamburgers so I guess that's a a
good condition right um allright so top our first topic

(34:19):
we're gonna talk aboutmeasurement and retail and what
really matters.
And I we could probably do awhole podcast just on this
because I think it's such a hottopic in retail right and so
whenever the conversation inretail comes up there's it it's
there's just this groan aroundmeasurement right it's like well
you know that we can measurethis we can't measure that the

(34:42):
numbers that I see don't reflectmy sales um you know every
retailer has their ownmeasurement criteria KPIs aren't
aren't the same numbers don'tline up you know brands you know
brands that are controlling moreof the retail media budgets you
know they want to see resultsthat you know before they
release funds, right?

(35:02):
And so it's really becoming a abit more challenging really you
know in the conversations thatthat we're having you know it's
clear that incrementality is onethat is a a a clear North Star
that everybody really wants tosee is, you know, did my
marketing or did my mediaactually drive incremental
sales, not just capture peoplewho would block already?

(35:25):
But you know it's it's hard it'shard to measure, right?
Because you know, last pointattribution last click you know
that that there's yeah all ofthese things actually are coming
coming together.
So you know from yourperspective and you're
definitely well more way moreversed on on measurement and
your experiences than I am butlike what is your perspective on
the value of measurement wherewhere measurement is headed you

(35:49):
know and also considering onlineversus in store because you know
we you mentioned omnichannelearlier these are omnichannel
shoppers they're shopping onlinethey're shopping in store it's
all about convenience how do wemeasure to make sure that our
media or marketing activitiesare actually driving the bottom
line.

SPEAKER_00 (36:07):
Yeah and I mean to your point there is 80% of
grocery shopping or 70 to 80%still happens in store.
So that is a huge component ofthis especially with your
Walmarts, your Costco's yourSAMS, your Krogers, all of those
because they they are brick andmortars first and foremost and
you know but they need to beable to engage that person in a

(36:28):
digital experience.
Even if the shopper isn'tnecessarily a digital shopper in
that ecosystem, you're stilltrying to impact that in-store
shopping behavior and can I justcan we get rid of ROAS?
ROAS is the best metric.
I don't know how manyconversations I've had over the
years and and ROAS used to be Imean we didn't have much more

(36:50):
like we would look at ROAS goalsyou know it was better than
click through rate andimpressions but it still doesn't
tell it just tracks the numberof sales that happened during
the period that your media ran.
And um in that space like it'sjust it's incomplete and even on
the incremental side of it umunderstanding that incremental
value can be very difficult.

(37:10):
I will say I don't think there'sa one end all be all solution.
I have been fortunate to be ableto partner with I have partnered
with a lot of different data,you know, the IRIs, the ANSAs,
the Nielsen's the you know ummost recently I'd onboarded a
newer company called Peak andthey were using AI modeling to
kind of flatten out all of thoseother things that happen in a

(37:31):
market, you know, weather trendsand things like that.
But also to look at it from across-retailer perspective
because that is the other bigissue with this is Walmart's
reporting is not going to be thesame as Kroger's reporting.
And even the impact of somethinglike search, you know, you're
not Kroger could be driving moreincrementality in your search

(37:51):
but have a lower ROAS justbecause they don't have the
space to grow like Walmart does.
And so kind of levelizing thatplaying field, even for me in
that space um I was with freshand frozen items at Dollar
General they only get a truckonce a week.
So if you run through theproduct and they also very

(38:11):
limited shelf space for thatproduct.
So you might get four items on ashelf at a time but if you're
running promotions and thingslike that, well once you run
through that inventory likethere's not as much opportunity
for incrementality.
And I mean and thencommunicating that with sales
and with your leadership, youknow, because that's always
coming back to that if your KPIwas new to brand shoppers.

(38:33):
Okay, great.
We may not see as muchincremental lift as we would
have on a traditional programbecause we were solely focused
on new to brand shoppers.
So that new to brand percent isreally what's going to matter to
us more than the total IROS.

unknown (38:49):
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (38:49):
Yeah yeah and I think we get confused sometimes
on the difference between acampaign objective and a media
objective.
Yes.
The media objective shouldsupport the campaign objective
but they aren't one in the same99% of the time.

SPEAKER_00 (39:04):
Trevor Burrus Well and usually there's multiple
tactics.
Oh yeah yeah I mean so you yeahto hold them all to that same
and then as long as it'sfunneling up and just reminding
yourself that what the goal was.

SPEAKER_05 (39:14):
Aaron Ross Powell Well and being on the agency
side so as I've been and you'vebeen on the brand side so you
you you understand where I'mcoming from on this one but
there's a lot of pressure whenwhen an agency is looking at the
numbers and to your point aboutwhy did the click-through rate
change, even though that may notbe necessarily the focus of the

(39:35):
campaign, right?
But it but it in the in themeeting right in the in the
report that we have to send overto a brand and say hey something
changed and everybody wants tooptimize everything right
because we're in thisperformance media mindset across
the entire ecosystem right andso it it it adds that pressure

(39:55):
right well why did the clickthrough rate go down 0.01% well
I don't know what can we do tochange that?
Why do we need to change yeahwhy do we need to change it and
I think so I think you knowthere is there is you know the
pressure on the agency sideobviously there's pressure on
the brand side too because theshopper marketer that's looking
at the report has to report upto somebody else and there's

(40:16):
somebody who's asking them aquestion, right?
And so just from just myperspective, I think sometimes
we get too focused in on thenumbers the detailed numbers
right like when you're running aa campaign yes there are KPIs
and KPIs are there for obviouslyvery specific reasons.
But what I've seen generally inin my career has been like when

(40:38):
you do a can when you do acampaign with the right
communication strategy, right?
With the it's the right idea,the right communication the
right media channels workingtogether, you're gonna see good
results, right?
Right.
Whether or not and and I know Iunderstand why right I
understand everybody wants tojustify why things are spent the
way they were and make sure thatyou can repeat it again the next

(41:00):
time because everybody wants toget to a formulaic result or
formulaic process.
Oh if I do this this and thisevery time I'm gonna get X
percent of of improvement andand in in sales.
All right for episode four I wasvery fortunate to have on the
CEO of Hashcoup, Joel Pontz, whois a a long friend and one of
the most curious people I'veever met in my life.

(41:21):
That guy just loves to learn andis always you know feeding more
information into that amazingbrain of his.
And it was great to have him onto talk about gaming and
advertising because I think hisperspective there really brought
to light some of theopportunities and and challenges
there.
And then you know on thetechnical side you know Joel

(41:42):
really had a has a great thoughtaround how AI can impact
marketing and marketers and whatthe role AI can really play.
So with that let's go ahead andhear what Joel had to say in
that episode.
We're gonna talk about gaming inadvertising and commerce right
and as we spoke about earlieryou know everyone's time and

(42:03):
people's time you know isfractionalized but there's a
huge amount of time being spenton in gaming I think you know
for a while there was the youknow the the conversation that
everybody's a gamer right and soit's just your your mom's a
gamer your grandma's a gamereverybody's a gamer right and so
and that's and that's true.

(42:24):
I think gaming as a form ofentertainment is you know
definitely part of part of ourculture and you know you see
that quite a bit.
There's also been a lot ofconversation about gamification.
How do you take certainexperiences and turn them into a
game um and you know wheneverybody when when people are
spending time doing a certainthing marketers advertisers want

(42:46):
to find out how can I you knowhow can I reach that audience?
How can I reach them at theright time?
And I think there's theconversation about like I I'd
like to play in gaming but I'mafraid I think brands a lot of
times are afraid to get intogaming.
I think they they're afraid ofthe gaming community to be quite
honest.
Like I think they're afraid likeif I put my ad in a game and it

(43:10):
interferes somehow with theirgame I'm gonna get so much
backlash on on social and in indigital formats that people are
just going to you know I'm gonnabe dealing with that for months,
right?
And or people will never neversee my brand ever again, right?
Because they'll shut me down orsomething.
Right.
So like from your perspectivelike I think I've got to believe
that there are some ways thatyou want to approach it.

(43:32):
I think there's been some waysthat some brands have approached
it and have done it well.
Yep.
I would love to hear from youlike where where do you see the
current state of the industryand kind of like where how did
it kind of get to where it istoday and where can brands play
that are very it's where canbrands play that really help uh
help them reach those gamers?

SPEAKER_04 (43:52):
Yeah it's a fascinating topic um gaming as a
category um has about as muchtime spent uh really across
generations but certainly uhwith Gen Z Millennials and Gen
Alpha a little bit less so withuh Gen X but growing um time
spent is comparable to social umand many advertisers I talk to

(44:17):
say Joel this has been on ourradar for years as a place
people are spending time but wehaven't done it for one of a few
reasons.
One is we don't know where tostart.
There's a whole lot of thingsout there we're not sure where
to begin.
Two we're not sure how to dothis in a brand safe way or in a
way to your point that isauthentic both to us and for
them.
Yeah that's really important.
The other one is also uh is thisright for us?

(44:39):
Meaning right for our audiencethere's a lot of defaulting to
it's kids.
Right.
Or sometimes it's kids are doingit as a basement.
And there's a lot more thanthat.
So to your point uh gamer itselfhas an interesting moniker and
stigma behind it.
So what we find is whenever youask a room full of people do you
consider yourself a gamer it'slike 20 to 30% of the room if

(45:00):
that.
But then you ask them oh do youplay any mobile games Candy
Crush, Words with Friends, RoyGirl way more hands go up for
sure.
Or even people that are playingStardew Valley or Animal
Crossing like that's cozygaming.
That's a category of games cozygaming is a real thing.
Really that's interesting.
So part of it is understandingwhat's happening across the
board.
It is a form of uh entertainmenta way that people sometimes

(45:22):
disconnect um and it'sunderstanding all of that and
then giving them the right placeto start.
So we think of it as a thiscrawl walk run approach.
And it also depends on again whois the audience.
So if you are trying to reach uhGen Alpha coming up but
certainly Gen Z, a platform likeRoblox and Fortnite makes a lot

(45:42):
of sense.
But then what is the outcome?
What are you trying to do?
Right.
They're fantastic at drivingbrand awareness right now.
They're developing certaincapabilities that will enable
commerce opportunities but Iwould say they're that is not
their bread and butter to date.
But for example Roblox now hasuh immersive commerce
capabilities that they'vestarted to roll out it's in its

(46:03):
infancy uh but you're startingto see really interesting
opportunities where I went andbought something on Walmart
discovered within the game yeahand I got something shipped to
my house but I also got adigital twin as a gift with
purchase.

SPEAKER_05 (46:15):
I I really like that and I I think you know Artifact
with Nike did did the same thingcorrect like you bought the shoe
and you got the NFT right and Idon't think it was for every
every pair sold but that was oneof the it was really the
reverse.

SPEAKER_04 (46:28):
You got the digital item and then they would ship
you the arrow so they took it aspre-orders which was a good way
to limit how many they had toproduce sure and it also created
limited quantities of these.
So then there isn't an infinitenumber or an undefined number of
these there's we can look at thesole inside and tell you exactly
how many of these were made.

SPEAKER_05 (46:45):
Yeah yeah well that and that addresses a whole
nother issue not necessarilywhere we were headed but I just
it just came to me that wholeidea of the digital item and the
physical item being you knowbeing purchased at at the same
at the same time.

SPEAKER_04 (46:59):
And the digital item itself is fascinating.
Like I think people are stilltrying to wrap their head around
this but to give you somecontext uh Parsons did a Parsons
School of Design did a studywith Roblox where uh out of the
Gen Z participants in the studyuh 56% of them actually stated
that their virtual closet wasworth as much if not more to
them than their real lifecloset.
Yeah.
And at first at surface levelyou're like that's insane.

(47:22):
But then you think about ityou're like well actually more
people are probably seeing theirvirtual items on their avatar
than might actually see them inreal life in some cases.
So it's a an element of braggingrights especially when it's a
limited item when they had tohave been there to have gotten
that yeah so we see a lot ofopportunities frankly across
generations one thing peopledon't think about actually is

(47:44):
baby boomers is one of thefastest growing segments in
mobile gaming specifically youknow first of all the technology
that goes into the cart itselfto be able to weigh your food
and weigh you know weigh yourproduce and all that stuff and
add it directly to your shoppingexperience and shopping cart is
absolutely brilliant right umand so but on the other hand
like trying to deploy that youknow a a large number of caper

(48:08):
carts I've got to imagine thereis pretty pr a pretty expensive
experience.

SPEAKER_05 (48:13):
So um you know I like like your point of view on
you know do you think a cartlike that does it really add to
the experience you know or iseverybody just good with their
mobile phone and and the thewire shopping cart that they're
already used to what are yourthoughts I think it's fun uh
I've never done it myself uh theidea of it sounds interesting

(48:36):
and there's definitely momentsthat I could see that have
actually being helpful.

SPEAKER_04 (48:41):
Like there's times that I want to know where
certain item is in the store andhave to go find somebody in the
store to tell me and sometimesthey're right and sometimes
they're not.
So uh the fact that it would beaware of what aisle I'm in and
maybe I can even somehow tell itwhat my shopping list is like
things like that I get excitedabout uh I think they're
interesting.
I think a lot of value will goto the retailer of course um you

(49:06):
know I think early tests thatthey're showing are people are
spending more uh there's morethere's more loyalty uh like and
I mean I went to you know freshmarket yesterday and I saw they
had an offer of like buy twochocolate bars and you get a
better deal than one.
That's not even with a capercard I bought two chocolate
bars.
Yeah well like what if I was inany given aisle and because it

(49:28):
knows what I'm putting in thecar it gives me relevant offers
that I may not have been awareof I I could set see that being
value to the shopper but alsodriving higher carded value.
So it's going to be incrediblyexpensive to do.
I don't know the economicsbehind it but sure maybe through
monetizing the ad inventory whatgetting increased getting

(49:48):
increased uh basket sizes andmaybe even more like people on a
loyalty program um maybe thatactually equates to maybe it's a
wash and that's enough for it tobe a win.

SPEAKER_05 (50:00):
Right.
Yeah I just wonder you knowwould you shop at a store
specifically because it had acart, a smart we'll call it a
smart cart, smart cart, um likea caper cart would you shop
there over shopping somewherelike you know a mass personally
I wouldn't uh I wouldn't make adecision to go to a place
because of that versus not.
Yeah it's so frustrating to mewhen I go to different Home

(50:22):
Depot or different lows that I'mused to going to so having
something to help with thewayfinding and I know you look
it up on the on your phone youcan do it through the app you
can it'll tell you what aislethings are.

SPEAKER_04 (50:32):
There's something interesting about like it's just
here and it's on the screen I'madding products to the cart.
So I think it's helpful but Ithink it would help my
experience I don't know if Iwould choose to go to the
retailer for it.
Right.

SPEAKER_05 (50:41):
Yeah yeah yeah yeah especially if I eventually
realize every time I go I spendmore than I want to well if we
can tie that previous topic intothis topic like you know if
you're on you have that cartright and it knows where you are
in store it could provideadditional incentives I mean or
it could detect your next to itand change the price on at the
shelf right before you're aboutto put in your cart.
Who knows?
But I think it's like anin-store cookie.

SPEAKER_04 (51:02):
Yeah like it's following you around it knows
what you're doing uh if nothingelse it's a really uh expensive
but probably compelling dataresearch project.

SPEAKER_05 (51:12):
Yeah my my feeling about where the opportunity
would be for Caper cart andInstacart specifically would be
to you know build all of thattechnology into your app into
your phone app right of coursethe sensor piece is going to be
you know the scales and stuffthat's not really gonna be
possible unless I guess maybe ifyou have LIDAR maybe you can

(51:34):
right from from the bears rightmaybe you can use LIDAR to
figure out how much somethingweighs but for that but bring it
into your device right and thenreally bring that because I
think it's like more of animmersive shopping experience
when you have that cape when youhave the caper cart in order to
you know tie that into yourshopping journey within the
within the store your list andyour gamification and all that

(51:56):
like why can't you just bringthat into you know your your
mobile device and bring thatexperience and let that be the
way to to do the same thing andthen you can scale that much
much faster.

SPEAKER_04 (52:08):
It's funny because even as you say that I was like
you know a cart that just hasspace for your phone to go in
there and you're you upload theapp and then your phone is oh
yeah it's good yeahsignificantly reduced cost and
you're opting in to do it atthat point you're maybe not
going to get the way but you get80% of the benefit.

SPEAKER_05 (52:24):
Yeah yeah yeah we'll see how you know caper carts and
other smart carts get adoptedand what impact they have on on
shopping so so for episode fivewe had claire on the show and it
was great to have uh claire askind of wrapping up those first
five episodes and she broughther her unique wit and and

(52:44):
perspective to the podcast wherewe tackled about hype culture we
tackled AI and marketing akawork slop and we made a few bold
holiday predictions together soit was really great to have
Claire on the show and so let'shear from Claire.
So work slop is a phrase that'sbeing thrown around the
workplace now for people who areusing AI in AI generated

(53:09):
content, you know, whether it'semails or or reports or
documents and then they'rethrowing it over to whoever they
have to send that document toand it's not accurate, right?
There's there's mistakes or it'snot the right you know right
content.
And then the person who receivesit then has to go through this

(53:30):
this process of trying tovalidate that information that
has been put into to thatdocument.
And so it you know there's beenstudies and that have been have
said that that you know workslop is costing a lot of time
and all that time is you knowaccumulating to lots of lots of
dollars.

SPEAKER_01 (53:49):
So you know my question to you is like have you
seen personally have you seenworkslop have you like actually
contributed to your workslop forsure I have especially in you
know whenever you're jumpinginto a new role and you're
having hit that learning curveand I mean I'm transparently I'm
in a whole new industry thatI've never been in before.

(54:12):
And so I was heavily relying onum AI and chat to help me better
understand it.
And now that I'm past thatlearning curve, I feel like I'm
not integrating with it as much.
But even the other day so we'reredoing our website right now
and we are tapping into chatquite a bit but we've got a
tailored chat that should anddoes know our industry and our

(54:36):
company through and through andso I feel like once if comp more
and more companies do that forthe brands that they're
marketing for or themselves Ifeel like that will help.
But even the other day we wereworking through the website and
we were chatting through um somesome copy options and I made the
comment I was like man I feel Ifeel really bad for a lot of

(54:59):
copywriters out there because Ifeel like that that is one of
the roles that AI couldpotentially replace but to your
point on WorkSlop and even whatchat spit out for us for a
one-liner I was like no thisstill needs a human element to
review it.

SPEAKER_05 (55:17):
Yeah um yeah and I think you know I think first of
all with AI, AI in the workplacethe AO it's all new right and so
there tends to be opportunityfor mistakes people misusing it
in in in different ways.
Maybe AI wasn't the right youknow tool to use for a specific

(55:38):
request.
So I think sometimes it may getoverused and so that I think
leads leads to it.
Some people may just be lazy anddon't want to or might maybe or
we'll we'll do it the other way.
Maybe they just don't have timethey're very busy and don't have
the time to really check thecheck the work um and before it
gets sent out.
I do think that this will youknow correct itself over time

(56:00):
but I think ultimately theperson that is the person that
is creating the content whateverit is if they're using AI they
are responsible for the accuracyand completeness.
Right.
I also think about it a littlebit like it's like having you
know a more junior levelemployee that it works for you

(56:21):
that's maybe new.
Yeah.
And so you know you try to alsohelp them you know get the
content correct but they aregoing to make mistakes right you
train them and they and they'vegot it and they're gonna make
mistakes.
So I I do think this is atemporary a temporary thing.
For sure and there's obviouslyas people get more skilled in
using AI I would expect thatwork slot will decrease again

(56:45):
but I think you know when itcomes to hype marketing you know
like I said there's a fewdifferent angles of hype that
can be built right so it couldbe a limited edition product
only available for a limitedtime there is you don't know
what you're gonna get in thebox.
I don't know I don't know ifthat necessarily works well for

(57:07):
CPG um unless it's like you knowbut you know there's that.
And then there's thecollaboration right and so we're
there's some sort of partnershipum you know um I think Oreo had
I was yeah I was in a yeah atSupreme Supreme Oreos and those
sold out instantly then SelenaGummet builds all that hype but

(57:32):
you know to me in some caseshype marketing works sometimes
it doesn't sometimes I roll myeyes sometimes I get really
excited so like in your mindlike what do you think really
makes hype marketing work?

SPEAKER_01 (57:46):
Well I mean even bringing it back to that the
other topic you've got to have aproduct that works and branding
that works with it.
So I mean at first I mean usingthe Oreo post Malone as an
example at first I was likewhat?
Why is it postalone making hisown Oreo?
But then I mean the marketingbehind it and then actually

(58:06):
trying the product which I loveOreos but that's my cryptonite
yes and um I mean yeah I lovedit.
I mean and I think the campaignperformed from what I hear it it
did it did really well.
Right.
Um so I think yeah you've got tohave the right product and the
right marketing behind it orrandom behind it.

SPEAKER_05 (58:24):
Yeah and you also see the clouds even at the in
the QSR or fast food space quitea bit that actually drive a lot
of hype.
So a few years back Travis Scotthad the Travis Scott meal.
Oh yeah and he was he wasoffering you know offering that
through McDonald's and uhSpongeBob and Wendy's right yeah
Spongebob and Wendy's um in thesneaker and and sneaker

(58:46):
community and um I would saylike there was one with a cactus
plant flea market.

SPEAKER_03 (58:52):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (58:52):
And so all the high beasts around the in the sneaker
community and and uh were allabout buying up all these happy
meals that had the toys in them.
Have you ever have your have youever bought like a happy meal or
some sort of meal like just toget the toy?

SPEAKER_01 (59:08):
Oh yeah for my girls for sure.
I think the squishmallow oneswere were a hit for the girls
for sure.

SPEAKER_05 (59:14):
And yeah they wanted all of those I think I've even
had to go and ask hey can I justbuy the squishmallow toy and
they let me so do you think hypemarketing will always work or do
you think I mean obviously youhave to have the right pairing
but like do you think peoplejust go ah not not another

(59:37):
mystery box or another I I meanI think it's I I think it's also
just trends and what people arejumping on with trends.

SPEAKER_01 (59:45):
I mean even using like the surprise like the the
things that are boxed.
I feel like it's more so in thetoy space where you don't know
what you're gonna get um candycould probably play into that
and cereal does yeah yeahactually you know dum dums even
do like they Back to thedum-dums, like the the purple
question mark rap, bro.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
That's the original, right?

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:05):
That's the original surprise.
Um, but I mean, my kids lovethat, and now it's across almost
every single toy.
Like there's Barbie, there'sthose puppy dolls.
I mean, there's there'severything.
You don't know what toy you'regonna get, and it's
gamification, you gotta try toget them all.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:21):
Yeah, it is.
I guess there is a certain levelof gamification, you know, as
well.
Um to it, because you know,you're you're you know, you I I
think of it as like the Pokemonmentality, you gotta catch them
all and kind of thing.
Yep.
So I I I think you know, to me,if you if you find a the right I
also feel like like a the rightcultural moment also is an

(01:00:42):
opportunity.
Um like Cranch, right?
That was that was you know,catch up in Ranch and app became
a thing.
That was Taylor Swift, right?
With Cranch?

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:54):
No, I don't think so.
Was it?

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:55):
I think she did something with Cranch and then
it took off and they maybe allright.
We might edit that one out.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:01):
Um, but anyway, um, so I I I do think that you know,
I I do think it has the timinghas to be good.
Yeah.
The partnership has to be right.
You have to know your audience.
Right.
Right.
You know, because the otherthing too is if you put
something in a box or you collabwith somebody and that user or

(01:01:23):
or that customer is a big fanand they go and they buy it, are
they gonna come back and buyyour product when it's not a
collab anymore?
Right.
And it's not, you know, it'sjust a it's just the regular,
regular product.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:37):
So are you well by then there might be another
trend that that yeah?
So you're so that that brandswitch over switch over.

SPEAKER_05 (01:01:45):
I know I I do I do think like I do think as long as
there is an opportunity to buildexcitement, right?
And so and that's what marketingis, right?
You're trying to build demand,right?
You're trying to build a desirefor a certain brand or product,
right?
As long as as long as that canwork and it's done in the right
way, the right product, rightcollab, I think hype marketing

(01:02:09):
will continue to work.
It'll continue to catch me forsure.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:11):
For sure.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:12):
But you know, and so I think I think I think hype
marketing is really gonna stick.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:16):
Stick around.
Well, and I mean, yes, we'vetalked about collabs, but I feel
like we only briefly touched onlike the limited edition side of
things.
Yeah.
And looping it back to do I likeTaylor Swift's new album?
Dude, she has crushed it when itcomes to hype marketing.
Oh, yeah.
All of her limited editionalbums.
I was looking at an infographicthe other day that shows Taylor

(01:02:39):
Swift's album sales by album.
And I think it was theMidnight's album where it there
was an uptick and then anotheruptick for the 1989 Taylor Swift
Taylor's Taylor's version.
But the reason that theMidnight's album had such a high
point of sales was I think thatwas her first one where she had

(01:03:02):
multiple vinyl editions.
So you could collect all ofthem.
And then with this, the Life ofShowgirl, I don't even know how
many she had, but I mean, I Ithink at least eight.
I'm not don't quote me on that.
But and they were all limitededition.
You could only buy them for 24hours.
So they she released it on herwebsite for 24 hours, and so

(01:03:22):
then the graphic shot up forLife of a Showgirl because there
were so many unique versions ofher album.
Um, I mean, and yeah, it got alittle annoying with the
marketing of it, but also sheknows what she's doing, and
people are still coming back formore.

SPEAKER_05 (01:03:40):
Yeah, she's a machine for sure.
Yep, so cool.
This holiday season, this is youknow my prediction, prediction
number one here is I do believethat agentic shopping will
actually go mainstream, well,more mainstream than I think we
expect.
I actually think that morepeople or more shoppers will buy

(01:04:01):
through AI through live streams.
Which I know live streams havehad a had a surge and then
they've kind of quieted down.
Now they've kind of normalized,like it is still obviously a way
that uh brands and products canengage with shoppers.
I I still, you know, I stillthink there has to be the right

(01:04:24):
product fit.
You know, I don't think everyproduct is great for a live
stream, um, but I do think thatthere, you know, there are
definitely opportunities.
So um, but that all being said,even though there is this
normalization of the live streamshopping, there's obviously all
this excitement about agenticshopping and using AI to shop.

(01:04:44):
And now we have these verypowerful tools that can do a lot
of this research and they makeus allow us to find gifts,
right?
We don't have to sit through alive stream and wait for the
gifts to show up, you know, orto show up to buy them.
We can just find them directlyon on AI with through AI, Chat
GPT, et cetera.

(01:05:05):
Um, so that's my prediction.
My prediction is that we'rereally gonna hit it, hit a hit
its stride.
I think it's gonna drive a lotof adoption and more people will
buy via agents and AI than theywill through live streams.
What do you thought?

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:19):
I totally agree.
I even the other day, this wasat holiday shopping, but the
other day we're renovating ourhouse or a portion of our house
right now, and I needed to ordersome windows and doors.
And I was trying to do justresearch on my own via Google,
just shopping online.
And I was like, you know what?
I'm gonna go, I'm just gonna goin store to Home Depot or I

(01:05:41):
think Home Depot.
I don't know which one.
I went to Home Depot or Lowe'sand I was like, I'm gonna go
back to the back of the back ofthe store, talk to a person,
they can help me plan out thewhole thing.
I hate to say this, it was nothelpful at all.
He just asked me to pull up myitem skew, and I was like,
that's that's not what I want.
So I left.
Along with using chat, I alsoused Home Depot's AI chat

(01:06:04):
feature on their website.
It was amazing.
Yeah, it f I finally found whatI was looking for.
I was looking for matchingwindows and doors and a single
door and a double door, and Iused it or I found it all via
the Home Depot AI chat.
So yes, I had a little bit ofhelp from Chat GBT, but so I
mean, yeah, I think it'll if I'musing it for home renovations,

(01:06:26):
people are definitely gonna beusing it for do you use ChatGBT
to talk to the Home Depot app?

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:32):
They could work it out.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:33):
No, and actually, I mean, truly, Home Depot's was a
lot more helpful than ChatGPT.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:37):
Well, it should do, all right.
It has that it has all of thedata, right?
So it should be able to be moreuh more helpful.
So cool.
All right, uh, what's your boldprediction?
Give me one.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:46):
So I feel like this one has honestly been trending
upwards over the last few years,but it's definitely trending in
my household.
Um, we are leaning more towardsexperiences and subscriptions
over physical, I say toys justbecause I've got little kids in
the house right now.

(01:07:07):
Yeah.
Um, but over physical items.
I mean, even the other day Ialmost asked Chad for some new
loafers, and I was like, no, Ineed to do need to get something
that's more of an experience ormore of a subscription.
Yeah.
Um, and so last year forChristmas, I asked Chad for some
pottery lessons over time.

(01:07:28):
So it was a subscription and anexperience.
Um and yeah, I think that'sdefinitely at least my household
is going.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:37):
Yeah, I think I think that's it's I think that's
really interesting.
I I do think, you know, kidslike to get their, you know, the
the PlayStation Network, youknow, subscription, you know, as
a you know, usually as a giftcard and a lot of that stuff.
But I think also like Isubscribe to Calm.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:52):
Okay.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:52):
You know, I subscribe to Blinkist, some of
these things that I personallypay for.
It would be great if somebody,yes, to be gifted, you know,
something like that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:02):
Or those storybooks, what are those uh the brand, the
storybooks where you I I giftedit to my dad actually.
Um, but you it's an email andthe gift recipient gets an
email.
You can choose how often to getit, but I think I set it up for
once a week or once every otherweek.
And they get a question, therecipient fills out the
question, and then um and thenat the end of the subscription,

(01:08:25):
it's all put into a book.
So it's basically your familymembers' story put into a book
and it's bound in everything.
So there's a little bit of aphysical element to it.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:36):
So it's to to put a finer point on your prediction,
are you saying that moresubscriptions and you know,
let's say digital, you know,just and experiences,
subscriptions and experiencesare going to increase
significantly this holidayseason.
All right.
Well, that's a wrap on thisepisode of Retail Media Vibes,

(01:08:58):
this special recap edition ofepisodes one through five.
I want to say a special thankyou to my guests, Tom Bryden,
Brad Godwin, Cassie Murray, JoelPonce, and Claire Reed.
So thanks for listening alongand stay with us on our journey
for retail media vibes.
And I hope to see you very soonin another episode.

(01:09:18):
If you have any feedback for theshow, please send that to
retailmedia vibes at gmail.com.
And as always, I promise to dobetter next time.
Be the out.