December 6, 2025 • 52 mins
What happens when brand safety and speed meet the messy magic of real human influence? We bring on influencer marketer Emma Curry to explore where AI-driven creators can help, where they can harm, and how transparency keeps audiences on your side. From synthetic personas that never miss a talking point to the irreplaceable trust earned by human voices, we map the tradeoffs and share a practical framework: keep humans in the loop, use AI to pressure-test briefs, and pick categories wisely so you don’t sell perfection where people need honesty.
Then we get tactical. Retail media keeps accelerating, demanding more assets, more often. We break down how to structure creator shoots for evergreen use, capture both short video and lifestyle stills, and design modular CTAs that swap by retailer without losing the story. Emma shares a favorite move, bring social into the store. An original song cut for in‑store radio during the holidays became prime exposure and a masterclass in stretching one asset across channels where buying actually happens.
We also wade into the contracts that decide your ROI: usage windows that match retail turnover, the extra costs of in‑store and CTV, and when SAG-AFTRA rules apply. The headline: don’t commission content without a plan. Decide where it will live, how it will refresh, and what success looks like before you press record. Plus, we have fun with quick hits on ads in public restrooms and smart fridges, BNPL holiday habits, and “Campaigns We Love,” featuring Huggies’ cheeky “Do It for the Team” and Walmart’s nostalgia-rich WhoKnewville.
If this gave you ideas for your next creator brief or retail media pitch, subscribe, share it with a colleague, and leave a review so more marketers can find Retail Media Vibes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:07):
What's up, party people?
BV here, and welcome to episodeseven of Retail Media Vibes, a
doing business in Bentonvillepodcast.
We are recording live at PodcastVideo Studios in Rogers,
Arkansas.
So today I'm joined by my goodfriend and former colleague Emma
Curry.
Emma has a strong background ininfluencers and content
(00:29):
creators, so she is perfect forwhat we're going to talk about
in today's episode.
So we'll get to meet Emma injust a minute, but the main
topics that we're going to runthrough today include AI
influencers, what's okay, what'snot okay, and how we got here.
And we're also going to talkabout influencer content for
retail media use.
Really, how do we take contentthat we are spending a lot of uh
(00:53):
time and money and energycreating, and how do we make
that fit for retail and retailmedia?
So we also have some quick hitstoday we're going to run
through.
And then we're we have a new uhnew game today called Campaigns
We Love, where Emma and I willshare some campaigns that we see
out there that we think arereally fun and notable.
(01:14):
So with that, let's get into it.
All right.
So next up is Vibe Chat, wherewe get to meet today's guest,
Emma Curry.
So welcome to Retail MediaVibes, Emma.
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
Hey, BB, I'm so excited to be here.
It feels like, I don't know,just yesterday we were jokingly
launching a podcast um as acover story.
So excited to uh kind of make ithappen finally.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
See, dreams do come true.
So uh so obviously our listenersdon't know you like I do.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour background, you know, who
you are, and maybe how you knowme.
SPEAKER_00 (01:49):
Um I am by day an influencer marketer.
I work at She Speaks, startedthere in May.
So fairly new to the company,but not to influencer marketing.
I had the opportunity to meetyou and work with you at Saatchi
and Satchi X.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Um, joined the ranks of one of the best known shopper
marketing agencies about umnearly eight years ago.
Um it was kind of my relaunch ofmy third career.
I know you know a thing or twoabout relaunching careers.
SPEAKER_02 (02:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, I have done that a coupleof times.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
So um I, in my current role, I really sit at
the intersection of drivingawareness and conversion through
influencers, through contentcreation, um, and and connecting
with audiences through socialchannels, um, which is honestly
near and dear.
I I love the community thatsocial media brings.
(02:41):
Um, so by day, that's my trade.
By night and every other minute,I'm also a mom.
I have two littles, a four and atwo-year-old, um, that my
husband and I chase aroundRussellville, Arkansas.
Um, and then just as a person,um, my personality, um, as we're
checking vibes a bit today, um,I would classify myself as a
(03:02):
tired mom, uh social mediaaddict, and a book lover.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:07):
I think that that might rain the rain through some
of the things you hear from metoday.
SPEAKER_02 (03:12):
That's uh that's awesome.
Well, first, thank you formaking the trip up from
Russellville, right?
So we probably had to get in thecar a little bit early to make
the the recording time.
So you talked a little bit aboutbooks, and I know you're an avid
book reader.
So, you know, what is your bookcount so far for 2025?
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
So um I am one of those that reads 200 plus a
year.
My count as of last night is181.
So I'm pretty close to my goal.
SPEAKER_02 (03:40):
How do you read so fast?
Like that's I don't I I can'teven find time to read one book
in a year, but you've read 181so far, three quarters are
almost almost full the fullyear.
SPEAKER_00 (03:53):
Um I'm not I'm not reading to expand my mind as
much as I'm reading to um forpleasure, for joy, to kind of
disconnect at the end of theday.
Um, I'm also very much uh thisbook ends, it starts and it ends
in one book.
I'm not um journeying along aseries.
I think I was traumatized,probably waiting for the the
(04:14):
next twilight to come out, um,showing my age.
Um proud millennial here.
Um so yeah, that's definitelylike how I disengage at the end
of the day.
Um and as you can imagine,having littles, sometimes I'm up
at night.
Uh, so that's kind of how I keepmyself awake long enough to get
them back to sleep.
SPEAKER_02 (04:32):
Yes, yeah.
But so down use some downtimeand I always found it really
interesting about like how youcould be taking care of the kids
like rocking them and still bereading a book at the same time.
I was thought that was reallycool.
SPEAKER_00 (04:45):
Listen, multitasking is like my middle name, I think.
SPEAKER_02 (04:49):
It probably could be.
Uh definitely uh it could be aswell.
So, you know, if you weren'tdoing what you were you're doing
now, what would an alternatecareer look like for for you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:01):
I think I mean dream would honestly just be uh be an
author to share stories thatway.
I think I get to do that alittle bit in my work, right?
I'm weeping.
Yeah, influencer.
Yeah, absolutely.
I love I love the storytelling,I love connection in that way.
Um, again, I'm probably writinglike the happily ever afters at
the end, um, giving some somejoy to somebody else.
(05:23):
And if not, that maybe somethingadjacent like a librarian.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
Oh bring a librarian, absolutely bring the
stories to people.
SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
I mean, I have such fond memories when I was a kid
going to the stories, going tostory time.
So make something like thateven.
SPEAKER_02 (05:37):
So, in the line of work that you do for influencer
and content creator, you know,you're partnering with brands,
right?
And you're using their voice inorder to help build awareness
about a brand or a product oryou know, ultimately conversion,
right?
You want to try to get them tobuy or sell something.
Have you ever been on the otherside of that where you've
(05:57):
purchased something recentlythat has been communicated to
you through an influencer or acontent creator that was like an
impulse, an impulse buy?
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
My most recent one is probably the most boring um
purchase.
And it wasn't necessarily like abranded ad.
Um, but I think it was just lastweek I saw a mom on TikTok
taking her kids with her toCostco, and I thought, oh my
gosh, that's literally mynightmare.
But she she has her like trick.
She takes them, gets the pizza,and pulls out her purse
(06:30):
scissors, literally just kitchenscissors.
SPEAKER_01 (06:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
Um that's scary to have scissors and outfits, but
not weaponized.
Um, but that's her trick.
She gets the pizza, gets acouple cups, and cuts them into
bite-sized pizzas for pieces forher kids.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
And that keeps some keeps them happy and engaged
while she she's able to knockoff the shopping list.
And I thought, huh, I have freewill and a couple extra bucks.
I maybe I need to invest in likea diaper bag pair of scissors.
So that was the last thing Ibought because of someone on
social media.
SPEAKER_02 (07:02):
I mean, for me it's sneakers, so I that doesn't
surprise anybody.
So I bought some running shoesthat I saw through a shoe tuber.
And so I, you know, picked upsome sneakers.
SPEAKER_00 (07:12):
So it's not the other thing's probably books.
I am influenced.
My TBR grows because of peopleon book talk or bookstagram and
recommendations I see.
So that's probably the mostcommon thing I do, though.
SPEAKER_02 (07:22):
Sounds great.
So great to get to know you,Emma.
So we're gonna go ahead now andmove into some of the quick hit
topics before we get into ourmain topics.
All right.
So we're now into the quickhits, you know, just really
quick, fun topics, uh, news,maybe newsworthy, maybe not so
newsworthy, that we're gonna youknow warm things up a little bit
(07:42):
before we get into the maintopic.
So uh the first one is so lookslike in China there are public
toilets where in order to gettoilet paper dispensed, you have
to watch a 20-second ad beforeit dispenses.
(08:03):
So you you you there's a videoof a woman, she's in a public
restroom, she has to scan a QRcode uh with her phone um in
order to get the toilet paperdispenser to open.
Um, but before it opens, there'sa 20-second ad that she has to
watch in order to actually getthe get the toilet paper.
(08:25):
So um there's a lot, you know,is this such it's such a weird
way, I guess, to do advertisingon one hand, but the other hand,
it it makes sense.
Um how do you think about like,is that really an advertising
opportunity?
Have we taken out-of-homeadvertising and gone way too far
with it?
Like, what are what are yourthoughts around like toilet
(08:48):
paper dispenser ads?
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
I mean, of course it gives you a laugh, but as a
marketer, I think, you knowwhat?
We're captive.
SPEAKER_02 (08:55):
Like does everything have to be an ad?
SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
It not everything does, right?
Um, and I mean, how long untilthey say it has for 20 seconds
you get single ply?
If you do a 60 second, you getthe three ply.
I mean, it's the premisation andthe and the tier structure.
How long until that happens?
But I do think I'm probablysusceptible.
That's one of the few times in aday I can be captive, I can take
(09:18):
a breath.
Yeah, sometimes I can lock a kidout.
Um, so I do think there's someopportunities.
I've I've also seen um and I'mone of those, my news comes from
TikTok.
Um, I saw a TikTok where publictoilets in China, some of them
also have external facingclocks, like timers.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
So people also know how long you're in there, right?
So it's like pressureadvertising too.
If you have to watch an ad, alsopeople are seeing how long it
takes you.
Um, but I I do think there'ssome opportunity.
It always goes back to the theprinciples of marketing, right?
Like right time, right place,right people, right message.
So how how do you do the rightmessage there?
(09:58):
And I I think, you know, maybeit's something funny like uh
liquid IV.
Like, are you hydrated enough?
SPEAKER_02 (10:04):
Like, is this your first trip to the what ads would
make the most sense in ascenario like that?
Uh yeah, liquid IV makes a lotof sense.
And obviously, we're not gonnaget gross, but like obviously
toilet paper, you know, charbonprobably would be a good, good
ad.
But any other brands come tomind?
SPEAKER_00 (10:21):
I mean, those were like the first ones I instantly
gravitated to.
I do think there's probably someand like some health, wellness,
yeah, you know, those types ofproducts um and adjacencies
there that make a ton of sense.
And you just have to be smart.
And it's probably more aboutcaretaking and not quote unquote
(10:42):
potty humor.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
Yes, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:44):
That can push it too far.
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
All right.
So great on the toilets.
Now let's talk about uhadvertising in a different
space, um, slightly differentspace.
Well, probably more than aslightly different space.
So next up, Samsung wants toplaster your smart fridge with
ads.
So, you know, Samsung has these,this philosophy that is
(11:07):
literally called screenseverywhere.
And, you know, it's obviouslyputting ads on its smart TVs and
anywhere that's a screen.
I think it's looking at theopportunity to advertise.
But now with some of thesefridge refrigerators that do
have screens on them, they alsotalk about um they have AI
(11:29):
vision inside some of thesenewer refrigerators from Samsung
that can see what you use andwhat you're you know, what you
uh might be in need of.
And so, you know, is is are wegetting to a place where
refrigerator advertising is moreof a benefit?
Because I look at it like wehave these, you know, we have
(11:52):
these smart homes, right?
And we have these smartappliances, and we do have, you
know, an expectation for them tobe helpful in some some way,
shape, or form, right?
So, but we also don't want toget hammered with an ad every
time we turn around.
So, you know, what is you know,what is the right balance with
(12:14):
you know products like thiswhere you know we're monetizing
every single screen and we'retrying to, you know, sell sell
that to uh to shoppers and toconsumers.
SPEAKER_00 (12:23):
I think actually I just learned my husband may work
for Samsung because he believesin the TV everywhere.
Um there's actually one rightabove our refrigerator.
So we're already getting some ofthose ads.
So I think adding some of thatfunctionality to it, right?
Like please, please send me anad for milk before my toddler's
tantrum is what reminds me I'mout.
(12:44):
I think there's there's somereally great intersection of of
function there.
I think something else toexplore when you're thinking
about ads.
We there's like a long-standingphrase that the kitchen is the
heart of the home, right?
And I think about we congregatethere as a family every morning
and every night.
That's where we're at.
Um, when friends and family arethere, that's where we're at.
(13:07):
So I think there's aninteresting opportunity as we've
seen a lot of these likeemotional storytelling,
multi-part type stories wherethe product are they're
integrated.
And maybe that's a place thatmakes a lot of sense.
Like you join as a family andit's you're watching whatever
that, you know, the rom commercelike Walmart did.
(13:30):
Maybe that's the space thatmakes sense.
You join around the the kitchenisland to eat dinner, and
there's that kind of multi-partseries that you're tuning into.
SPEAKER_02 (13:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It it's interesting.
I think, you know, it's to thepoint we were talking about
before is like, you know, thethe the right, you know, right
message at the right, you know,right time to, you know, to the
right audience.
It can be helpful.
But we all know, and you and Ihave worked in this space long
enough, like there's a lot ofpushback on advertising, you
know, and unfortunately, it'sone of the ways that everything
(13:59):
gets monetized, you know, oneway or the other.
Even things that are notmonetized yet will ultimately
become monetized.
And a lot of it's used throughadvertising.
So, you know, they have thisinformation, they have this
data.
When you have the data, you doand you have a screen, you do
have an opportunity toadvertise.
I think as long as it's helpfuland as long as the the people in
the home are open to it or theyreceive a benefit from it, uh, I
(14:24):
think there's a a greatopportunity.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
Yep, agreed.
SPEAKER_02 (14:27):
So all right.
So the next quick hit that wehave is half the shoppers plan
to use buy now and pay laterthis holiday season.
So we're we're getting into theholiday season, the holiday rush
is upon us.
Um there's uh a lot of shoppingthat's gonna be taking place.
(14:48):
And instead of you know,whipping out a credit card, uh a
lot of uh a lot of people whoare doing their shopping now are
going to use these buy now orpay later, like Klarna as a as
an example uh to do thosepurchases.
So with those, there's typicallyno interest.
You know, there are somedifferent, you know, different
ways that you can use thoseservices.
(15:10):
Some may have a little bit ofinterest, some of them have no
interest.
And we're not obviously going toget into all that right now.
But um, when you have thesethese systems like Klarna and
Afterpay, like back in my day,we used to have something called
layaway, right?
And which is, you know, youwould divide up, you'd put down
a down payment and then youwould divide up the balance
across a series of weeks ormonths, depending on you know
(15:32):
the cost of the item.
You know, do you think there's abig risk if there's a lot of
people that are using thesesystems and uh to to buy all of
their holiday gifts of rackingup a bunch of you know bills
that they can't afford?
Or, you know, what what role doyou see that these really
playing?
SPEAKER_00 (15:49):
I think I mean to your point, it's not new, it's
it's prettier now.
It's more accessible, maybe now,maybe more destigmatized.
Um, I you know, I grew up that90s kid.
Kmart Laeaway was everywhere.
Like that was that was a thingthat people were kind of
embarrassed of it, but now it'sit's just ingrained and and much
more accessible.
So I think it gives a moreresponsible spin to it, and it
(16:12):
gives um people the opportunityto, you know, ensure Santa shows
up everywhere and for everyoneand and gives that opportunity.
I think it's actually kind ofviewed more as a budgeting tool
anymore.
Like that's a way people can usethat budget and and you know,
divide up how they're gonna payit out, just like you were doing
with layaway baby back in theday.
(16:33):
Um it's it's more about kind ofbeing that that helper and
making it happen.
And I think an interesting sideof you know how it's integrated
now is that it's it's offered onevery transaction online,
basically.
And one of my one of my careerswas in retail.
(16:53):
And one of the things we learnedis that the rate at which, you
know, service add-ons were addedor you know, plus ups were done
online was much higher than instore because it's always
offered online.
It's always available versus thehuman element when you forget to
offer it.
And so when it's available topeople, they are gonna look at
it more seriously.
Even if I can afford it rightnow, maybe I would like to
(17:16):
separate and pay it out and beable to do something else that I
hadn't planned for because I hadthis budgeting tool available to
me.
SPEAKER_02 (17:24):
Yeah, my wife likes free money.
So if there is an opportunity touse you know these services in
order to balance out kind of thethe budget and not pay interest
and you know, obviously if youknow, work that out in the
proper way, I think uh I thinkit can definitely be a benefit.
Um, I do think, you know, insome of those situations, it
(17:45):
could lend people to spendingmore.
And so that's gonna helpretailers, right?
You know, so um, because theydon't have they're not gonna a
lot of people don't worry aboutwhat's gonna come in the future.
They just want to, they're justthinking about what's gonna
happen today.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
Definitely.
I I know there used to be statswhen I was in retail about like
if people buy a gift card, theperson receiving the gift card
usually spends three times more,four times more.
I'm sure we're gonna startseeing some of that type of data
available too to see when peopledo this, they spend X percent
more at that retailer of thetime.
SPEAKER_02 (18:16):
Cool.
All right, we're gonna wrap upthe quick hits with one fun one
here.
Um so this one, you know, cracksme up actually.
So a couple episodes ago, I hadJoel Pont on, and we we talked
about a competition in Alaska tosee which bear could be the
fattest bear before hibernation.
And so they actually used lidarin order to measure the bear.
(18:39):
Nobody weighed, actually weighedthe bear.
Um and chunk the bear won.
And so that was that was great.
Well, Texas was not gonna beoutdone.
So they have they did the samething with squirrels.
So they had the fat squirrelweek in Texas, and the winner of
that was uh Chunkosaurus Rex,which actually I kind of love
(19:01):
the name, honestly.
Um and so like you started tothink about okay, fat squirrel
week competing with you know,fat bear week, but what would be
some like sponsors of fatsquirrel week that come to mind
for you?
SPEAKER_00 (19:16):
Um, first of all, chunkosaurus rex is hilarious.
I'm surprised it's not adinosaur my child has tried to
teach me about.
Yes, I'm not sure.
I think there's you know,there's always the obvious ones,
right?
Like Yeti or Arctic, like theoutdoors or like I don't know,
like a blue diamond, um nuts orlike pind bars.
Those make sense.
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
I like the I like the more out there ones, you
know.
So I tried to think like who's awho's a popular squirrel?
Like Sandy from Oh, yeah,Spongebob, yeah.
Where can we do a Spongebobcollab?
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
Or um maybe maybe closer to our generation of
squirrels, like Rocky andBullwinkle.
SPEAKER_02 (19:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:57):
Like a rocky road named after Squirrel.
SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
No, we should do a top 10 famous squirrels list.
SPEAKER_00 (20:03):
Are there 10 famous I don't know?
I I did grow up in NorthwestArkansas and one of the local
schools is a flying squirrels.
So maybe there's maybe there'ssomething there too.
SPEAKER_02 (20:13):
Like if you press me on the most popular squirrels
right now, I probably wouldn'tbe able to do more than two.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
So I can I could name a couple of chipmunks,
probably.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
Oh yeah, chipmunks, yeah.
Alvin, Simon, Theodore.
Um, yeah.
So it's it was reallyinteresting to see, you know,
them replicate what the bearsdid with squirrels and uh, you
know, in Alaska and with thebears and then in Texas with
with squirrels.
So that I thought that one wasexcellent.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
I love a good joy marketing, just uh yes fun.
Yeah, let's let's tag into itbecause it it makes people
happy.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
Chunkasaurus Rex.
SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
Chunkasaurus Rex, the next dinosaur in the curry
household.
SPEAKER_02 (20:48):
Cool.
All right, well, that does itfor quick hits.
Now we're gonna move on to ourmain topics.
All right, so the first maintopic is we're gonna talk about
AI influencers, right?
So this seems like a like aloaded topic, right?
Because you have the influencerspace, which people have some
strong opinions about, you haveAI, which people have some
(21:10):
strong opinions about, and we'rebringing those two together and
really trying to unpack likewhat is up with AI influencers,
right?
So influencers that aren't realhuman beings is not anything
new.
So I think the uh one of themore popular ones is um Lil
(21:31):
Miguela, um, and you know, howthere was you know an Instagram
account that was created aroundher persona and actually even
got brand deals.
And so, like there's been a lotof these, you know, you can even
call them like digital avatars,but you know, the idea is this
is not a real human being,right?
(21:52):
And you know, and then you alsohave on the other side
influencer space whereinfluencer and content creation
has been a huge growth area formarketers, right?
And so you have these authenticvoices that are you know really
talking about your product,talking about your brand, right?
That you're you're leveragingthe credibility uh from to that
(22:18):
person's audience or the whatthey the credibility they have
in order to reach their audienceand help them or and and teach
them about a specific product oror brand, right?
But then on the other side, nowwith all of the AI tools that
you have, and it's really easyto create an AI version of a
(22:40):
human being and make that intosomething, right?
You can take characteristics andyou can take attributes of you
know that you want to amplifythrough through AI, and you can
you can create this persona umas well.
And so, you know, personallyI've always thought, okay,
(23:00):
wouldn't it be cool if you had asuite of these AI influencers
that fit different categories ofof people that you want to want
to reach and you know, andleverage them in order to
communicate about your you knowyour your products and brands.
You know, obviously when youwork with something like an AI
(23:24):
tech uh format for aninfluencer, they're always gonna
get the brand message right.
You know, they're always gonnasay what you want them to say.
So you can you have some ofthose challenges on the human
side when you have a humaninfluencer is to get them to say
exactly what you want to say inthe authentic voice that they
hold, right?
So that's always a toughbalance.
And so it really looks likethere's some opportunities, but
(23:45):
also some challenges in thatbecause there's also a lot of
pushback around AI, right?
In a lot of ways.
And so, you know, in your world,have you have you had
conversations?
Have you uh have you thoughtabout what role AI influencers
can play in uh in an influencercompany?
SPEAKER_00 (24:05):
I think there's again pros and cons to all of
it, right?
And um something that reallyintrigues me about the AI
influencer space is that one,think about how quickly a brand
could react, engage in trendsand things like that with an AI
(24:26):
influencer versus a human.
In the human element, you haveto go and recruit somebody and
go through all the steps tocontract and all those things.
Even if they're already a brandambassador, yeah, there's still
there's still limitations there.
And so the speed at which youcould also engage, plus some of
the other things you're saying,like always you're always gonna
hit the the required talkingpoints.
You're always going to be brandsafe because you have those
(24:49):
guardrails.
So I think that's another umpositive that that brings to
light too.
Um what's kind of on the otherside is to your point, the the
authenticity and the communitythat is cultivated by the human,
the human connection.
That's that's where we want toengage.
(25:10):
Um, and I think you you lose alittle bit of that, right?
So it's really hard.
I do think the same way witheverything AI, it can certainly
be a great tool, even if you'renot publicly facing with an AI
influencer, yeah.
Is thinking about that as um,you know, like a pressure test.
Like give the AI influencer thebrief.
(25:31):
If they can't hit the brief,maybe the human, the human
influencers are gonna strugglewith it too.
Um, or maybe it's actually Ilike that idea.
SPEAKER_02 (25:40):
Like it's almost like you're you're setting up an
influencer um test, you know, atest case, right?
And so, you know, if you havesome, if you have this AI
influencer uh and you can runyour brief through them and see
what they do with it can alsohelp you inform how you might
(26:03):
work with a human influencer.
I like I do like that idea.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
I think too, one of the other elements of that is
how much AI are the trueinfluencers using now?
I mean, that's a talking pointthat it's still pretty split
50-50 of like how heavy brandsare asking or putting
requirements around that.
Like, are they using it to draftup concepts or to do any
(26:29):
automatic editing, even usingthe native platform AI tools?
So there's AI elements probablyin a lot of the influencer
content that we don'tnecessarily all see or know
about.
SPEAKER_02 (26:40):
Yeah, what but what level of transparency is
required in that situation,right?
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
I mean, all of it, you know, should.
It's always the should.
And um, you know, there areharder uh regulations that you
have to follow, right?
I mean, the same way you have todisclose it's a partnership.
You're also supposed to discloseif if you've used AI tools, um,
all of the platforms, TikTokmeta, they have a a tool that
will just kind of mark it at thebottom that you've used it.
(27:08):
Um and that's transparency iskey in all of it, I think.
Whether you're an influencerthat's used tools to generate
your content, or you're anactual AI influencer that the
brand has cultivated andcreated, is that transparency.
And I think that's what drivesthe connection in influence in
the influencer and social mediaspace, no matter if you're
(27:30):
disclosing a partnership oryou're disclosing an AI tool.
SPEAKER_02 (27:33):
Yeah, it is interesting because you know, I
think some people are okay withAI as long as they know that
it's AI.
If you use you're using AI,especially when it comes to
something that is like conceptsand write-ups and briefs and all
that stuff.
I think, I think you couldprobably look at that in a
couple of different ways on whatis needed.
(27:54):
But when it's that public-facingpersona, that public-facing
content, like people don't want,nobody wants to feel like
they're duped, right?
So I'm gonna go back becausethis just hit me.
But I think that was the wholechallenge with Millie Vanilli
back in the day, right?
So I don't think what MillieVanilli did back in the day was
really that wrong.
(28:16):
But the problem is they weren'ttransparent about it.
Yeah.
And I think that's why they gotall the backlash they did.
Because like if you look at whatthey were doing then, it's the
same thing they do today and inso many ways with lip syncing
and in and audio production.
So, anyway, people just don'tlike to be duped, right?
And so I think if you'retransparent about it, people who
want to like it will like it.
People who don't like it won'tlike it.
(28:36):
That's just, you know, that'snot everybody has to like
everything, of course, right?
So, you know, what categories orbrands do you think may lean
itself into using, you know,using AI influencers optimally?
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
I think it'd be a mistake if you're in like tech
to not have to lead with that,right?
Like if you're a tech company,you're not leading with AI in
some way.
This is just another layer tothat.
Um, I also think just likeentertainment gaming, I mean
anywhere where you're creatingthese virtual worlds and
immersive, I think those arethose are key.
(29:12):
I will say one that really isthe lead that me as a person and
a marketer maybe battle a littlebit is around like fashion
beauty.
Um that is a space that leansheavily into it.
But it's it's a fine linebecause you're in a space where
beauty, you're selling beauty,and you're selling beauty with
(29:33):
something that's not real.
It's hard.
That's a hard line to navigatewith um how you're being
culturally sensitive or how howyou are kind of disclosing that
and interacting with theaudiences.
So that one is probably one ofthe leading categories, but
maybe one that I struggle with alittle bit on a personal level.
SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
I think fashion I yeah, I I do think there's a
difference between beauty andfashion, right?
So I think beauty, you know, howpeople look, how they feel about
themselves, a lot of that.
I think I You have to be supercautious with and having an a
synthetic person who's has noflaws, or even if they were
flaws, they were created flaws,is not doesn't feel right to me.
(30:13):
I mean, personally.
But with fashion, you know, Ithink it gives you it could give
you an opportunity to testcertain styles in a very, you
know, we'll call it a safe wayor an easy way to test styles,
and then from there be able totake that to production, right?
Um, and I think, you know, therehave been a lot of retailers
who've tested something similarwhere not necessarily used AI,
(30:36):
but like put a product outthere, seeing how fast it sells.
And if it sells fast, then theygo ahead and they do a full, uh,
a full run based upon the thespeed in which it sells out.
So it is it is reallyinteresting.
So what guardrails do you thinkshould be placed?
I know we talked a little bitabout transparency, but are
there are there some specificguardrails that you think um
(30:56):
make this platform of AIinfluencer uh work better?
Or do we just say, you knowwhat, let's just hold on doing
it and not not approach it foranother year or two?
SPEAKER_00 (31:08):
Yeah, I think I mean, like we say with anything
AI, there's still gotta be ahuman element to it.
There's gotta be human involvedin interviewing.
Keep the human in the loop.
Um so I think that's that'sgonna be key.
Um I think also making sure thatthere's important layers of like
the the cultural sensitivity andthinking about that also in
(31:31):
terms of how it can be scaled.
Yeah.
Um, because an AI influencertalking to me in Arkansas may
look different to somewhere elsein the US, and then add the fact
that the internet's everywhere,um, making it go global.
So I think that's having that umkey element there, as we do with
all of AI, making sure to checkbiases and making sure that
(31:52):
those things are scalable.
Um, of course, just like generalrisk assessment as part of that
like human element, making surewe're reviewing it.
Um, and then I think one of thethings it's not necessarily a
guardrail, but something toincorporate is really the fun
side.
Um, we don't want it to be therobot.
Like we like influencers becausethey have either a niche,
(32:13):
something we like about them.
SPEAKER_02 (32:15):
I think make them human but not too human.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
Yeah, make them human but not too human.
Give them a party trick orsomething.
I don't know.
Um my party trick was alwaysdoing the Carlton.
Um, but maybe maybe they havetheir thing um that that kind of
helps integrate, integratethere.
And if nothing else, use it as atool to kind of gut check and
then and go and then go workwith the go work with the human
(32:38):
influencers and let them dotheir thing.
And honestly, the human issometimes where the best stuff
has come out in our content.
SPEAKER_02 (32:45):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's definitely a veryinteresting space.
I see it definitely evolving umover time.
And I think as as people'sattitudes change towards AI or
evolve with AI, I think you'llsee more and more of these um
these things.
But I also think there will be avalue that will be put on uh
(33:05):
human, you know, human versusAI, you know, around that
authenticity and around being areal human being.
So really interesting space.
So um thanks for sharing that.
Talk about influencer content,right?
That's an area you know reallywell, right?
And so one of the things thathas evolved with influencer
content is a lot of timesinfluencer content was looked at
(33:27):
as a brand building exercise,right?
And so influencers would go andthey work with a brand and they
would talk about a brand.
But now, and it's not like it'snever been this way, but it
seems to be more and moreopportunity to take that
influencer content and make itwork at retail, right?
And so, you know, as retailmedia becomes as, well, it's
(33:50):
become extremely big, right?
And it continues to evolve, andthere is a lot of opportunity
within retail media, there isthis idea of like, how do I take
all this content uh that I thatI've created with an influencer
and really make it work in a ina retail media channel?
(34:10):
And obviously there are somechannels within retail media
that make a lot more sense, somethat are probably a little bit
more challenging, but you know,just the ability to repurpose
this content in a lot ofdifferent ways.
The other side of it too is Ithink I would contend that
retail media requires many moreassets on a more regular basis
(34:31):
than any brand-facing mediabecause retail moves so fast,
there's so many changes as well.
So, you know, you have a fewthings.
You have this idea that you havethis influencer content that
you've created and you want tomaximize the value of this
influencer-created content orcontent creation.
And then you have the side of,well, I need so many new assets,
(34:54):
and and you know, to my my buyeris asking for more, and I want
to create content that worksspecifically for that retailer,
right?
And so you've just had thisexplosion of content needs,
right?
So how in your in your world andthe way you look at influencer
content, what are things thatyou really think can help make
(35:16):
that content extend its valueand work well for retail?
SPEAKER_00 (35:21):
Yeah, one of the simplest things we do is vary
the the types of content we'regetting.
We we get a mix of things ofboth video still content.
Um and we also work with umcreators to maybe work in a way
that can be more evergreen.
Um, so majority of the contentis centered around the product,
(35:42):
but maybe beginning or end oryou know, just a finite section
is dedicated to like theretailer conversion driving, um,
that call to action.
We also tend to do a mix ofelements within the still
imagery.
You know, let's make sure we geta good variety of the product
and the retailer and then justthe product.
Um, make sure the lifestyle iswhat really shines through.
(36:06):
And we know that a lot of theretailers reward and want more
lifestyle type imagery used inin their um placements and
things that you can buy.
And so we do work really closelywith creators to to do a
variation there um and make surewe have have some ways we can
optimize it on and off umretailer sites or or other buys.
SPEAKER_02 (36:29):
Do you typically work with creators that have
already worked with retail inthe past so to make that process
more streamlined, right?
Because I would imagine likeworking with a a creator that
has never worked with retailbefore, they're not going to
understand really therequirements, right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:43):
We definitely lean into more um retail
affinity-based uh creators whenwe're working with with you know
a more shopper marketing focusand and tend to work with those
that have worked with thosespecific retailers.
But if they haven't worked withthat one, most have a very
similar expectation or style.
Right.
Um and and definitely lean intothem to have some expertise and
(37:08):
then also sometimes push us abit because they're also
consumers.
They're they're type ofmarketer, but they're also a
consumer.
So it's kind of nice that we getsomebody that knows the drill
but also pushes pushes theenvelope a little bit.
SPEAKER_02 (37:21):
So, what has been like the most creative way that
you've seen some of this contentused in a retail media
ecosystem?
SPEAKER_00 (37:28):
Yeah, I think the most creative is when we don't
just move it from influencersocial to retail media social or
or or website.
I think when it crosses athreshold into store, it really
on paper, that doesn't soundsuper creative, but when you
think about a social influencerin store, that's huge.
(37:49):
Um, one of my it was also afavorite.
Very first, one of my very firstcampaigns was an original song.
Um really.
What?
Um maybe you maybe you heard it.
Um it was a holiday song, and sowe pushed and did an in-store
cut of the song, and so itplayed on in-store radio.
So that's probably not somethingyou would bring to the table at
(38:10):
a first idea client, right?
Like that's a a a differentvariation, but I think there's
other ways we haven't even begunto think about using in-store.
SPEAKER_02 (38:18):
Just so just to narrow that down for the people
that are listening so they theyunder follow that.
So you worked with a creator,and that creator made a custom
song for a campaign.
SPEAKER_00 (38:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (38:30):
And that campaign was for a specific retailer,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (38:34):
Yes, yes.
It was um, I think we can sayit, Walmart.
Yes, um, and so um we we usedthat song across the campaign
more broadly.
We integrated into otherinfluencers' content as well.
So that song spanned um the thecampaign holistically.
But then yes, we we made thesong specific to that retailer
(38:57):
and they loved it and played iton in-store radio during the
holidays, which is a prime, Imean, prime real estate, prime
time um to have brain exposureand even to have that that
musical artist's music reachingnew masses.
SPEAKER_02 (39:11):
And one of the things I've always thought was
always a smart idea is to give aretailer the opportunity to have
a creator that is dedicated toto them, right?
So make that unique.
So if you have a specificprogram and you're running it
across multiple retailers, youknow, have a different creator
(39:33):
for each retailer and have themcreate content that is bespoke
to that retailer and thatretailer's messaging and that
retailer's shopper, right?
And so when you can do that, andwhen you have something that is
a valuable asset, like a song,right?
Determining what are the bestways to distribute that asset
(39:54):
throughout that ecosystem.
And so, like a lot of times, youknow, retailers like Walmart,
they're not creating songsspecifically for a CPG category,
right?
Why would they do that, right?
But if it's somebody that's inCPG, a brand in CPG, want to
create a song, and then, oh,well, by the way, Walmart, you
can use this in your own, youknow, through your own channels.
(40:16):
I mean, it just extends thevalue of that content.
You, you know, it's you know,brands have invested a
significant amount of money inthe in that space.
And so it's really about gettingthat value.
And then of course, you know,you're you're earning
credibility with your merchantat the same time, right?
Oh, this is fun, this is cool,this is specifically to this
category.
(40:36):
So it really feels like that'sthat's one really a really good
unlock is content that is uniqueand bespoke to that specific
retailer that can be reused inpurpose across multiple
purposes.
Now, I know you and we've workedtogether a long time, but there
are probably some legal thingsthat need to be considered in a
(41:00):
situation like that.
What would what what would someof that be?
Because I know you've you'reyou've been really good at
influencer contracts.
I know you hate influencercontracts, but you're really
good at it.
So some of the some of thethings I because I don't think
people think about that.
Oh, I'll just get with aninfluencer and they'll create a
piece of content.
I can do whatever I want withit.
Well, that's not always thecase, is it?
SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
No, um, yeah, I kind of joke um when the pandemic
hit, I also earned my lawdegree.
Um, there's I mean, there's alot and that goes into it, and
there's a lot of limitations interms of what you can ask for
and also what you're gonna getfor the price.
Um what what you got probably 10years ago, five years ago, and
even two years ago is verydifferent than what you get
(41:41):
today.
So one of the biggest things isnavigating the usage and not
only how long you can use it,um, but where.
Um most savvy influencers aregonna maybe give you social and
web and pay in like paid mediause.
Um, but things like in-store aregonna cost you, or if you see
(42:03):
something like on a connected TVad, um that's that's crossing a
different threshold, right?
That's getting kind of toe inthe line of being an actor.
Um, so there's a lot there.
Um and the more you you use it,the more um it can be governed
by other bodies too.
So not just being an influencerpiece of content, um, you start
(42:25):
getting to things like SAGAFTRA.
Um, and and people areconsidered um being an actor, or
in that case on music, um therethe after part covers the music.
So there's a lot there thatpeople just don't really
understand, and there's a lot ofrisk too, in terms of, you know,
just the many terms that youhave to negotiate.
(42:45):
So a lot to learn there, but umthere's definitely some great
standards that have been set.
And and a lot of brands havereally kind of figured out like
their sweet spot too.
Um, because to your point, thedemand for the number of number
of assets and the things thatturn over, you might not need to
(43:07):
use it for five years.
So maybe don't go after thatbecause you're you need
refreshed.
SPEAKER_02 (43:11):
Oh, we want it in perpetuity.
SPEAKER_00 (43:13):
We want it in perpetuity.
Um, yeah, scary word.
Uh still do that occasionally.
But yeah, I think there'sdefinitely some more standards
being in place and kind ofexpectations that that
everyone's kind of figured outas this has become a more
prevalent part of the process.
SPEAKER_02 (43:28):
Yeah, one part I think is really important also
to think about in this space islike have a content plan.
I think it's too often, youknow, it's uh a program is
looked at in isolation.
Oh, I'm gonna have aninfluencer, influencer is gonna
create content.
Great.
Well, what are you gonna do withthat content?
Well, I don't know.
I don't know what we're gonna dowith that content really.
(43:49):
Like, oh yeah, you know, maybewe'll boost it through social or
or whatever, but like have acontent plan.
Like, you know, so many timesthere are assets that go unused
because there's no plan, right?
And so, like, how can you getthe value out of what you just
spent if you don't have a planon how to really use that
content?
SPEAKER_00 (44:07):
Yeah, that's definitely I that's one of the
very first things I I stop andask before we get, you know,
start checking off, okay.
We this need this many years andthis, it's it let's talk, let's
step back, let's talk about yourbigger usage, let's, or you
know, your bigger campaign planor um your strategy over the
next one year, two years, andthat can help us shape it.
(44:28):
Um, because I think a lot oftimes people do want to just
jump in and start makingcontent.
And then you learn down thestretch, like, man, you know
what actually performs best withthis audience?
Static.
And guess what we didn't get?
SPEAKER_02 (44:40):
No, wow.
No static.
SPEAKER_00 (44:42):
Um, or maybe we we shot a video and um all of the
call to action is at the end andpeople are dropping off after 10
seconds.
Like having that plan andknowing ahead helps us to frame
up the storytelling and what wecapture, making sure we have the
right elements along with howlong you're using it.
SPEAKER_02 (45:01):
Great insights, Emma.
I know you you've been in thatspace quite a long time.
And it's been great, great tohave your voice leaning into
this topic.
It's, you know, I think youknow, assets and content
creation is, you know, an againanother area in retail that is
going to continue to be anopportunity uh for brands and
for retailers and obviously, youknow, partners, you know, like
(45:21):
like the company you work for aswell.
So um awesome.
So thanks for that.
All right.
So now we get to end thingstoday with a new segment called
Campaigns We Love.
And so uh Emma I have done Emmaand I have done this this
segment uh previously totogether where we uh we search
(45:42):
the internet for, or maybe youmust see it on something called
a TV, but you know, search theinternet or a TV, and we might
find an ad that we findparticularly interesting.
So um first one we're gonna haveis Emma.
You're you have you have onefrom Huggies that you want to
present as a campaign that youlove.
SPEAKER_00 (46:01):
Yes.
Um so Huggies launched Do It forthe Team.
Okay.
Um, nine months ahead of theWorld Cup.
SPEAKER_02 (46:09):
Nine months.
It seems like an interestingtime frame.
SPEAKER_00 (46:11):
Very strategic, it sounded like, um, but perfectly
timed, um, very, you know,cultural timing in the sitting
largest single sport drawglobally.
SPEAKER_01 (46:22):
Yeah, World Cup is a little bit world.
SPEAKER_00 (46:26):
Right.
Um but really, I mean, justfunny, they they launched a long
form 10-minute like moodsetting.
I won't get into what thatmeans, but they offered a
sweepstakes to go along with it.
So a supply of free diapers forsix weeks starting in June 2026.
If you, you know, maybe are partof this movement, if you will.
(46:49):
So just a fun um way to playinto the cultural timing, to,
you know, maybe be a brand fitor find a way to be a brand fit.
Sometimes it's not an obviousplay.
So what do you think?
I mean, I'm drawn to diapersbecause I'm still in that world,
but does it shine for you?
SPEAKER_02 (47:08):
Well, I think you know, having uh a reason to take
time off from work to watchsports is a good reason to do
anything.
And so I would say that yeah, Ithink, you know, I think it's
it's smart.
Um and it it does, it does, itis definitely very, very cheeky
(47:28):
and it kind of fits into youknow the right cultural, you
know, timing of things.
So um, yeah, I mean, obviouslythere's a lot of people who love
the World Cup and will be gluedto TV for that.
And so, you know, why not kindof pair those things together?
So that's that's really cool.
SPEAKER_00 (47:44):
Hey, as someone that was on maternity leave during
March Madness, which is like, myholy grail, I get it.
Take the time and enjoy if ifthat's that's one of your loves.
SPEAKER_02 (47:54):
All right.
So my campaign, Emma, is Walmartwith their Who Knewville holiday
campaign.
So Who Knew has been Walmart'splatform uh for uh several
months, you know, maybe it's thefull year at this point, around
you know, introducing people touh to Walmart, like almost
reintroducing Walmart toconsumers again.
(48:18):
Uh, because I think you know,there are perceptions or have
been perceptions about Walmart,and this is reintroducing what
what those perceptions could be.
Um, and Walmart does offer waymore than I think what people
expected.
So I think it's a great uhplatform campaign campaign.
But you know, a person likemyself, I love nostalgia.
And so this one really leansinto for the holiday season,
(48:41):
leans into you know, Dr.
Seuss's inspired type of ofworld and in Hooville and really
makes it very imaginative andreally kind of brings together,
you know, the best of you knowwhat Walmart is introducing with
this nostalgia and the season ofthe holiday season and bringing
(49:04):
all of that uh together, youknow.
And so, you know, it's it's it'sbeen something that I've I've
found to be really interestingand the way they've approached
it and and brought that tolight.
So that that's you know, mycampaign is Who Knew Bill?
SPEAKER_00 (49:18):
Yeah, that honestly, I love it.
They've been leaning just sowell into that nostalgia space
and just I think about the backto school mean girls when that
launched, that was such a bigmoment.
Um, so I really I love that.
Like it really is that's kind ofbeen their their vibe, if you
will, the last few years.
They've really leaned well intosome of those type of
storytelling moments, too.
SPEAKER_02 (49:37):
Love love some tea pain.
Definitely was a musical moment,we'll call it with with the with
tea pain.
So awesome.
Well, thanks for thanks forsharing that.
Uh so I hope you all like thecamp campaigns we love.
Uh, we'll bring more of those inuh future episodes of Retail
Media Vibes.
All right.
Well, that's a wrap for thisepisode of Retail Media Vibes.
(50:00):
I want to say a huge thank youto Emma Curry for joining me on
this uh this episode andbringing her vibes to the show
today.
Um, anything, Emma, that youwant to plug or talk about
before we wrap things up today?
SPEAKER_00 (50:15):
Yeah, I mean, two main things.
So, first, it's it's holidayseason.
The team has been cranking outsome amazing work and working
incredibly hard.
So excited that that content isgoing to be out there.
So maybe check out um either myLinkedIn or SheSpeaks for some
of that in the near future.
But before I kind of wrap up, Ido want to say a huge thank you
and shout out to the campaignsteam at SheSpeaks.
(50:38):
You have been incredible and Iam so impressed with everything
that you've been able toaccomplish.
So thank you all for that.
Um, but lastly, kind of moreimportantly, this time of year
especially, um I'm really movedto make sure that people have,
you know, a warm, full bellyduring the holiday season.
So if you're looking for aplace, if you're able to give, I
(51:00):
encourage you to give to a localfood bank.
And you can find one by umvisiting feedingamerica.org and
either doing a monetary donationor going in person.
Um, so those are the vibes I'mending with today.
SPEAKER_02 (51:14):
Awesome.
Well, thanks for that, Emma.
Appreciate that.
So I hope you all enjoyed thisepisode of Retail Media Vibes.
If you have any comments orfeedback on the show, please
send me a note at retailmediavibes at gmail.com.
Also, be sure to like,subscribe, provide comments to
the to to the content so thatmore people learn about retail
(51:36):
media vibes.
So thank you all so much.
And as always, I will try to dobetter next time.
So BV out of the
What's up, party people?
BV here, and welcome to episodeseven of Retail Media Vibes, a
doing business in Bentonvillepodcast.
We are recording live at PodcastVideo Studios in Rogers,
Arkansas.
So today I'm joined by my goodfriend and former colleague Emma
Curry.
Emma has a strong background ininfluencers and content
(00:29):
creators, so she is perfect forwhat we're going to talk about
in today's episode.
So we'll get to meet Emma injust a minute, but the main
topics that we're going to runthrough today include AI
influencers, what's okay, what'snot okay, and how we got here.
And we're also going to talkabout influencer content for
retail media use.
Really, how do we take contentthat we are spending a lot of uh
(00:53):
time and money and energycreating, and how do we make
that fit for retail and retailmedia?
So we also have some quick hitstoday we're going to run
through.
And then we're we have a new uhnew game today called Campaigns
We Love, where Emma and I willshare some campaigns that we see
out there that we think arereally fun and notable.
(01:14):
So with that, let's get into it.
All right.
So next up is Vibe Chat, wherewe get to meet today's guest,
Emma Curry.
So welcome to Retail MediaVibes, Emma.
SPEAKER_00 (01:26):
Hey, BB, I'm so excited to be here.
It feels like, I don't know,just yesterday we were jokingly
launching a podcast um as acover story.
So excited to uh kind of make ithappen finally.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
See, dreams do come true.
So uh so obviously our listenersdon't know you like I do.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour background, you know, who
you are, and maybe how you knowme.
SPEAKER_00 (01:49):
Um I am by day an influencer marketer.
I work at She Speaks, startedthere in May.
So fairly new to the company,but not to influencer marketing.
I had the opportunity to meetyou and work with you at Saatchi
and Satchi X.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Um, joined the ranks of one of the best known shopper
marketing agencies about umnearly eight years ago.
Um it was kind of my relaunch ofmy third career.
I know you know a thing or twoabout relaunching careers.
SPEAKER_02 (02:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, I have done that a coupleof times.
SPEAKER_00 (02:21):
So um I, in my current role, I really sit at
the intersection of drivingawareness and conversion through
influencers, through contentcreation, um, and and connecting
with audiences through socialchannels, um, which is honestly
near and dear.
I I love the community thatsocial media brings.
(02:41):
Um, so by day, that's my trade.
By night and every other minute,I'm also a mom.
I have two littles, a four and atwo-year-old, um, that my
husband and I chase aroundRussellville, Arkansas.
Um, and then just as a person,um, my personality, um, as we're
checking vibes a bit today, um,I would classify myself as a
(03:02):
tired mom, uh social mediaaddict, and a book lover.
SPEAKER_01 (03:06):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:07):
I think that that might rain the rain through some
of the things you hear from metoday.
SPEAKER_02 (03:12):
That's uh that's awesome.
Well, first, thank you formaking the trip up from
Russellville, right?
So we probably had to get in thecar a little bit early to make
the the recording time.
So you talked a little bit aboutbooks, and I know you're an avid
book reader.
So, you know, what is your bookcount so far for 2025?
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
So um I am one of those that reads 200 plus a
year.
My count as of last night is181.
So I'm pretty close to my goal.
SPEAKER_02 (03:40):
How do you read so fast?
Like that's I don't I I can'teven find time to read one book
in a year, but you've read 181so far, three quarters are
almost almost full the fullyear.
SPEAKER_00 (03:53):
Um I'm not I'm not reading to expand my mind as
much as I'm reading to um forpleasure, for joy, to kind of
disconnect at the end of theday.
Um, I'm also very much uh thisbook ends, it starts and it ends
in one book.
I'm not um journeying along aseries.
I think I was traumatized,probably waiting for the the
(04:14):
next twilight to come out, um,showing my age.
Um proud millennial here.
Um so yeah, that's definitelylike how I disengage at the end
of the day.
Um and as you can imagine,having littles, sometimes I'm up
at night.
Uh, so that's kind of how I keepmyself awake long enough to get
them back to sleep.
SPEAKER_02 (04:32):
Yes, yeah.
But so down use some downtimeand I always found it really
interesting about like how youcould be taking care of the kids
like rocking them and still bereading a book at the same time.
I was thought that was reallycool.
SPEAKER_00 (04:45):
Listen, multitasking is like my middle name, I think.
SPEAKER_02 (04:49):
It probably could be.
Uh definitely uh it could be aswell.
So, you know, if you weren'tdoing what you were you're doing
now, what would an alternatecareer look like for for you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:01):
I think I mean dream would honestly just be uh be an
author to share stories thatway.
I think I get to do that alittle bit in my work, right?
I'm weeping.
Yeah, influencer.
Yeah, absolutely.
I love I love the storytelling,I love connection in that way.
Um, again, I'm probably writinglike the happily ever afters at
the end, um, giving some somejoy to somebody else.
(05:23):
And if not, that maybe somethingadjacent like a librarian.
SPEAKER_01 (05:27):
Oh bring a librarian, absolutely bring the
stories to people.
SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
I mean, I have such fond memories when I was a kid
going to the stories, going tostory time.
So make something like thateven.
SPEAKER_02 (05:37):
So, in the line of work that you do for influencer
and content creator, you know,you're partnering with brands,
right?
And you're using their voice inorder to help build awareness
about a brand or a product oryou know, ultimately conversion,
right?
You want to try to get them tobuy or sell something.
Have you ever been on the otherside of that where you've
(05:57):
purchased something recentlythat has been communicated to
you through an influencer or acontent creator that was like an
impulse, an impulse buy?
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
My most recent one is probably the most boring um
purchase.
And it wasn't necessarily like abranded ad.
Um, but I think it was just lastweek I saw a mom on TikTok
taking her kids with her toCostco, and I thought, oh my
gosh, that's literally mynightmare.
But she she has her like trick.
She takes them, gets the pizza,and pulls out her purse
(06:30):
scissors, literally just kitchenscissors.
SPEAKER_01 (06:33):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
Um that's scary to have scissors and outfits, but
not weaponized.
Um, but that's her trick.
She gets the pizza, gets acouple cups, and cuts them into
bite-sized pizzas for pieces forher kids.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
And that keeps some keeps them happy and engaged
while she she's able to knockoff the shopping list.
And I thought, huh, I have freewill and a couple extra bucks.
I maybe I need to invest in likea diaper bag pair of scissors.
So that was the last thing Ibought because of someone on
social media.
SPEAKER_02 (07:02):
I mean, for me it's sneakers, so I that doesn't
surprise anybody.
So I bought some running shoesthat I saw through a shoe tuber.
And so I, you know, picked upsome sneakers.
SPEAKER_00 (07:12):
So it's not the other thing's probably books.
I am influenced.
My TBR grows because of peopleon book talk or bookstagram and
recommendations I see.
So that's probably the mostcommon thing I do, though.
SPEAKER_02 (07:22):
Sounds great.
So great to get to know you,Emma.
So we're gonna go ahead now andmove into some of the quick hit
topics before we get into ourmain topics.
All right.
So we're now into the quickhits, you know, just really
quick, fun topics, uh, news,maybe newsworthy, maybe not so
newsworthy, that we're gonna youknow warm things up a little bit
(07:42):
before we get into the maintopic.
So uh the first one is so lookslike in China there are public
toilets where in order to gettoilet paper dispensed, you have
to watch a 20-second ad beforeit dispenses.
(08:03):
So you you you there's a videoof a woman, she's in a public
restroom, she has to scan a QRcode uh with her phone um in
order to get the toilet paperdispenser to open.
Um, but before it opens, there'sa 20-second ad that she has to
watch in order to actually getthe get the toilet paper.
(08:25):
So um there's a lot, you know,is this such it's such a weird
way, I guess, to do advertisingon one hand, but the other hand,
it it makes sense.
Um how do you think about like,is that really an advertising
opportunity?
Have we taken out-of-homeadvertising and gone way too far
with it?
Like, what are what are yourthoughts around like toilet
(08:48):
paper dispenser ads?
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
I mean, of course it gives you a laugh, but as a
marketer, I think, you knowwhat?
We're captive.
SPEAKER_02 (08:55):
Like does everything have to be an ad?
SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
It not everything does, right?
Um, and I mean, how long untilthey say it has for 20 seconds
you get single ply?
If you do a 60 second, you getthe three ply.
I mean, it's the premisation andthe and the tier structure.
How long until that happens?
But I do think I'm probablysusceptible.
That's one of the few times in aday I can be captive, I can take
(09:18):
a breath.
Yeah, sometimes I can lock a kidout.
Um, so I do think there's someopportunities.
I've I've also seen um and I'mone of those, my news comes from
TikTok.
Um, I saw a TikTok where publictoilets in China, some of them
also have external facingclocks, like timers.
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (09:35):
So people also know how long you're in there, right?
So it's like pressureadvertising too.
If you have to watch an ad, alsopeople are seeing how long it
takes you.
Um, but I I do think there'ssome opportunity.
It always goes back to the theprinciples of marketing, right?
Like right time, right place,right people, right message.
So how how do you do the rightmessage there?
(09:58):
And I I think, you know, maybeit's something funny like uh
liquid IV.
Like, are you hydrated enough?
SPEAKER_02 (10:04):
Like, is this your first trip to the what ads would
make the most sense in ascenario like that?
Uh yeah, liquid IV makes a lotof sense.
And obviously, we're not gonnaget gross, but like obviously
toilet paper, you know, charbonprobably would be a good, good
ad.
But any other brands come tomind?
SPEAKER_00 (10:21):
I mean, those were like the first ones I instantly
gravitated to.
I do think there's probably someand like some health, wellness,
yeah, you know, those types ofproducts um and adjacencies
there that make a ton of sense.
And you just have to be smart.
And it's probably more aboutcaretaking and not quote unquote
(10:42):
potty humor.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
Yes, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:44):
That can push it too far.
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
All right.
So great on the toilets.
Now let's talk about uhadvertising in a different
space, um, slightly differentspace.
Well, probably more than aslightly different space.
So next up, Samsung wants toplaster your smart fridge with
ads.
So, you know, Samsung has these,this philosophy that is
(11:07):
literally called screenseverywhere.
And, you know, it's obviouslyputting ads on its smart TVs and
anywhere that's a screen.
I think it's looking at theopportunity to advertise.
But now with some of thesefridge refrigerators that do
have screens on them, they alsotalk about um they have AI
(11:29):
vision inside some of thesenewer refrigerators from Samsung
that can see what you use andwhat you're you know, what you
uh might be in need of.
And so, you know, is is are wegetting to a place where
refrigerator advertising is moreof a benefit?
Because I look at it like wehave these, you know, we have
(11:52):
these smart homes, right?
And we have these smartappliances, and we do have, you
know, an expectation for them tobe helpful in some some way,
shape, or form, right?
So, but we also don't want toget hammered with an ad every
time we turn around.
So, you know, what is you know,what is the right balance with
(12:14):
you know products like thiswhere you know we're monetizing
every single screen and we'retrying to, you know, sell sell
that to uh to shoppers and toconsumers.
SPEAKER_00 (12:23):
I think actually I just learned my husband may work
for Samsung because he believesin the TV everywhere.
Um there's actually one rightabove our refrigerator.
So we're already getting some ofthose ads.
So I think adding some of thatfunctionality to it, right?
Like please, please send me anad for milk before my toddler's
tantrum is what reminds me I'mout.
(12:44):
I think there's there's somereally great intersection of of
function there.
I think something else toexplore when you're thinking
about ads.
We there's like a long-standingphrase that the kitchen is the
heart of the home, right?
And I think about we congregatethere as a family every morning
and every night.
That's where we're at.
Um, when friends and family arethere, that's where we're at.
(13:07):
So I think there's aninteresting opportunity as we've
seen a lot of these likeemotional storytelling,
multi-part type stories wherethe product are they're
integrated.
And maybe that's a place thatmakes a lot of sense.
Like you join as a family andit's you're watching whatever
that, you know, the rom commercelike Walmart did.
(13:30):
Maybe that's the space thatmakes sense.
You join around the the kitchenisland to eat dinner, and
there's that kind of multi-partseries that you're tuning into.
SPEAKER_02 (13:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It it's interesting.
I think, you know, it's to thepoint we were talking about
before is like, you know, thethe the right, you know, right
message at the right, you know,right time to, you know, to the
right audience.
It can be helpful.
But we all know, and you and Ihave worked in this space long
enough, like there's a lot ofpushback on advertising, you
know, and unfortunately, it'sone of the ways that everything
(13:59):
gets monetized, you know, oneway or the other.
Even things that are notmonetized yet will ultimately
become monetized.
And a lot of it's used throughadvertising.
So, you know, they have thisinformation, they have this
data.
When you have the data, you doand you have a screen, you do
have an opportunity toadvertise.
I think as long as it's helpfuland as long as the the people in
the home are open to it or theyreceive a benefit from it, uh, I
(14:24):
think there's a a greatopportunity.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
Yep, agreed.
SPEAKER_02 (14:27):
So all right.
So the next quick hit that wehave is half the shoppers plan
to use buy now and pay laterthis holiday season.
So we're we're getting into theholiday season, the holiday rush
is upon us.
Um there's uh a lot of shoppingthat's gonna be taking place.
(14:48):
And instead of you know,whipping out a credit card, uh a
lot of uh a lot of people whoare doing their shopping now are
going to use these buy now orpay later, like Klarna as a as
an example uh to do thosepurchases.
So with those, there's typicallyno interest.
You know, there are somedifferent, you know, different
ways that you can use thoseservices.
(15:10):
Some may have a little bit ofinterest, some of them have no
interest.
And we're not obviously going toget into all that right now.
But um, when you have thesethese systems like Klarna and
Afterpay, like back in my day,we used to have something called
layaway, right?
And which is, you know, youwould divide up, you'd put down
a down payment and then youwould divide up the balance
across a series of weeks ormonths, depending on you know
(15:32):
the cost of the item.
You know, do you think there's abig risk if there's a lot of
people that are using thesesystems and uh to to buy all of
their holiday gifts of rackingup a bunch of you know bills
that they can't afford?
Or, you know, what what role doyou see that these really
playing?
SPEAKER_00 (15:49):
I think I mean to your point, it's not new, it's
it's prettier now.
It's more accessible, maybe now,maybe more destigmatized.
Um, I you know, I grew up that90s kid.
Kmart Laeaway was everywhere.
Like that was that was a thingthat people were kind of
embarrassed of it, but now it'sit's just ingrained and and much
more accessible.
So I think it gives a moreresponsible spin to it, and it
(16:12):
gives um people the opportunityto, you know, ensure Santa shows
up everywhere and for everyoneand and gives that opportunity.
I think it's actually kind ofviewed more as a budgeting tool
anymore.
Like that's a way people can usethat budget and and you know,
divide up how they're gonna payit out, just like you were doing
with layaway baby back in theday.
(16:33):
Um it's it's more about kind ofbeing that that helper and
making it happen.
And I think an interesting sideof you know how it's integrated
now is that it's it's offered onevery transaction online,
basically.
And one of my one of my careerswas in retail.
(16:53):
And one of the things we learnedis that the rate at which, you
know, service add-ons were addedor you know, plus ups were done
online was much higher than instore because it's always
offered online.
It's always available versus thehuman element when you forget to
offer it.
And so when it's available topeople, they are gonna look at
it more seriously.
Even if I can afford it rightnow, maybe I would like to
(17:16):
separate and pay it out and beable to do something else that I
hadn't planned for because I hadthis budgeting tool available to
me.
SPEAKER_02 (17:24):
Yeah, my wife likes free money.
So if there is an opportunity touse you know these services in
order to balance out kind of thethe budget and not pay interest
and you know, obviously if youknow, work that out in the
proper way, I think uh I thinkit can definitely be a benefit.
Um, I do think, you know, insome of those situations, it
(17:45):
could lend people to spendingmore.
And so that's gonna helpretailers, right?
You know, so um, because theydon't have they're not gonna a
lot of people don't worry aboutwhat's gonna come in the future.
They just want to, they're justthinking about what's gonna
happen today.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
Definitely.
I I know there used to be statswhen I was in retail about like
if people buy a gift card, theperson receiving the gift card
usually spends three times more,four times more.
I'm sure we're gonna startseeing some of that type of data
available too to see when peopledo this, they spend X percent
more at that retailer of thetime.
SPEAKER_02 (18:16):
Cool.
All right, we're gonna wrap upthe quick hits with one fun one
here.
Um so this one, you know, cracksme up actually.
So a couple episodes ago, I hadJoel Pont on, and we we talked
about a competition in Alaska tosee which bear could be the
fattest bear before hibernation.
And so they actually used lidarin order to measure the bear.
(18:39):
Nobody weighed, actually weighedthe bear.
Um and chunk the bear won.
And so that was that was great.
Well, Texas was not gonna beoutdone.
So they have they did the samething with squirrels.
So they had the fat squirrelweek in Texas, and the winner of
that was uh Chunkosaurus Rex,which actually I kind of love
(19:01):
the name, honestly.
Um and so like you started tothink about okay, fat squirrel
week competing with you know,fat bear week, but what would be
some like sponsors of fatsquirrel week that come to mind
for you?
SPEAKER_00 (19:16):
Um, first of all, chunkosaurus rex is hilarious.
I'm surprised it's not adinosaur my child has tried to
teach me about.
Yes, I'm not sure.
I think there's you know,there's always the obvious ones,
right?
Like Yeti or Arctic, like theoutdoors or like I don't know,
like a blue diamond, um nuts orlike pind bars.
Those make sense.
SPEAKER_01 (19:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
I like the I like the more out there ones, you
know.
So I tried to think like who's awho's a popular squirrel?
Like Sandy from Oh, yeah,Spongebob, yeah.
Where can we do a Spongebobcollab?
SPEAKER_02 (19:50):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (19:50):
Or um maybe maybe closer to our generation of
squirrels, like Rocky andBullwinkle.
SPEAKER_02 (19:56):
Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:57):
Like a rocky road named after Squirrel.
SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
No, we should do a top 10 famous squirrels list.
SPEAKER_00 (20:03):
Are there 10 famous I don't know?
I I did grow up in NorthwestArkansas and one of the local
schools is a flying squirrels.
So maybe there's maybe there'ssomething there too.
SPEAKER_02 (20:13):
Like if you press me on the most popular squirrels
right now, I probably wouldn'tbe able to do more than two.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
So I can I could name a couple of chipmunks,
probably.
SPEAKER_02 (20:20):
Oh yeah, chipmunks, yeah.
Alvin, Simon, Theodore.
Um, yeah.
So it's it was reallyinteresting to see, you know,
them replicate what the bearsdid with squirrels and uh, you
know, in Alaska and with thebears and then in Texas with
with squirrels.
So that I thought that one wasexcellent.
SPEAKER_00 (20:36):
I love a good joy marketing, just uh yes fun.
Yeah, let's let's tag into itbecause it it makes people
happy.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
Chunkasaurus Rex.
SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
Chunkasaurus Rex, the next dinosaur in the curry
household.
SPEAKER_02 (20:48):
Cool.
All right, well, that does itfor quick hits.
Now we're gonna move on to ourmain topics.
All right, so the first maintopic is we're gonna talk about
AI influencers, right?
So this seems like a like aloaded topic, right?
Because you have the influencerspace, which people have some
strong opinions about, you haveAI, which people have some
(21:10):
strong opinions about, and we'rebringing those two together and
really trying to unpack likewhat is up with AI influencers,
right?
So influencers that aren't realhuman beings is not anything
new.
So I think the uh one of themore popular ones is um Lil
(21:31):
Miguela, um, and you know, howthere was you know an Instagram
account that was created aroundher persona and actually even
got brand deals.
And so, like there's been a lotof these, you know, you can even
call them like digital avatars,but you know, the idea is this
is not a real human being,right?
(21:52):
And you know, and then you alsohave on the other side
influencer space whereinfluencer and content creation
has been a huge growth area formarketers, right?
And so you have these authenticvoices that are you know really
talking about your product,talking about your brand, right?
That you're you're leveragingthe credibility uh from to that
(22:18):
person's audience or the whatthey the credibility they have
in order to reach their audienceand help them or and and teach
them about a specific product oror brand, right?
But then on the other side, nowwith all of the AI tools that
you have, and it's really easyto create an AI version of a
(22:40):
human being and make that intosomething, right?
You can take characteristics andyou can take attributes of you
know that you want to amplifythrough through AI, and you can
you can create this persona umas well.
And so, you know, personallyI've always thought, okay,
(23:00):
wouldn't it be cool if you had asuite of these AI influencers
that fit different categories ofof people that you want to want
to reach and you know, andleverage them in order to
communicate about your you knowyour your products and brands.
You know, obviously when youwork with something like an AI
(23:24):
tech uh format for aninfluencer, they're always gonna
get the brand message right.
You know, they're always gonnasay what you want them to say.
So you can you have some ofthose challenges on the human
side when you have a humaninfluencer is to get them to say
exactly what you want to say inthe authentic voice that they
hold, right?
So that's always a toughbalance.
And so it really looks likethere's some opportunities, but
(23:45):
also some challenges in thatbecause there's also a lot of
pushback around AI, right?
In a lot of ways.
And so, you know, in your world,have you have you had
conversations?
Have you uh have you thoughtabout what role AI influencers
can play in uh in an influencercompany?
SPEAKER_00 (24:05):
I think there's again pros and cons to all of
it, right?
And um something that reallyintrigues me about the AI
influencer space is that one,think about how quickly a brand
could react, engage in trendsand things like that with an AI
(24:26):
influencer versus a human.
In the human element, you haveto go and recruit somebody and
go through all the steps tocontract and all those things.
Even if they're already a brandambassador, yeah, there's still
there's still limitations there.
And so the speed at which youcould also engage, plus some of
the other things you're saying,like always you're always gonna
hit the the required talkingpoints.
You're always going to be brandsafe because you have those
(24:49):
guardrails.
So I think that's another umpositive that that brings to
light too.
Um what's kind of on the otherside is to your point, the the
authenticity and the communitythat is cultivated by the human,
the human connection.
That's that's where we want toengage.
(25:10):
Um, and I think you you lose alittle bit of that, right?
So it's really hard.
I do think the same way witheverything AI, it can certainly
be a great tool, even if you'renot publicly facing with an AI
influencer, yeah.
Is thinking about that as um,you know, like a pressure test.
Like give the AI influencer thebrief.
(25:31):
If they can't hit the brief,maybe the human, the human
influencers are gonna strugglewith it too.
Um, or maybe it's actually Ilike that idea.
SPEAKER_02 (25:40):
Like it's almost like you're you're setting up an
influencer um test, you know, atest case, right?
And so, you know, if you havesome, if you have this AI
influencer uh and you can runyour brief through them and see
what they do with it can alsohelp you inform how you might
(26:03):
work with a human influencer.
I like I do like that idea.
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
I think too, one of the other elements of that is
how much AI are the trueinfluencers using now?
I mean, that's a talking pointthat it's still pretty split
50-50 of like how heavy brandsare asking or putting
requirements around that.
Like, are they using it to draftup concepts or to do any
(26:29):
automatic editing, even usingthe native platform AI tools?
So there's AI elements probablyin a lot of the influencer
content that we don'tnecessarily all see or know
about.
SPEAKER_02 (26:40):
Yeah, what but what level of transparency is
required in that situation,right?
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
I mean, all of it, you know, should.
It's always the should.
And um, you know, there areharder uh regulations that you
have to follow, right?
I mean, the same way you have todisclose it's a partnership.
You're also supposed to discloseif if you've used AI tools, um,
all of the platforms, TikTokmeta, they have a a tool that
will just kind of mark it at thebottom that you've used it.
(27:08):
Um and that's transparency iskey in all of it, I think.
Whether you're an influencerthat's used tools to generate
your content, or you're anactual AI influencer that the
brand has cultivated andcreated, is that transparency.
And I think that's what drivesthe connection in influence in
the influencer and social mediaspace, no matter if you're
(27:30):
disclosing a partnership oryou're disclosing an AI tool.
SPEAKER_02 (27:33):
Yeah, it is interesting because you know, I
think some people are okay withAI as long as they know that
it's AI.
If you use you're using AI,especially when it comes to
something that is like conceptsand write-ups and briefs and all
that stuff.
I think, I think you couldprobably look at that in a
couple of different ways on whatis needed.
(27:54):
But when it's that public-facingpersona, that public-facing
content, like people don't want,nobody wants to feel like
they're duped, right?
So I'm gonna go back becausethis just hit me.
But I think that was the wholechallenge with Millie Vanilli
back in the day, right?
So I don't think what MillieVanilli did back in the day was
really that wrong.
(28:16):
But the problem is they weren'ttransparent about it.
Yeah.
And I think that's why they gotall the backlash they did.
Because like if you look at whatthey were doing then, it's the
same thing they do today and inso many ways with lip syncing
and in and audio production.
So, anyway, people just don'tlike to be duped, right?
And so I think if you'retransparent about it, people who
want to like it will like it.
People who don't like it won'tlike it.
(28:36):
That's just, you know, that'snot everybody has to like
everything, of course, right?
So, you know, what categories orbrands do you think may lean
itself into using, you know,using AI influencers optimally?
SPEAKER_00 (28:50):
I think it'd be a mistake if you're in like tech
to not have to lead with that,right?
Like if you're a tech company,you're not leading with AI in
some way.
This is just another layer tothat.
Um, I also think just likeentertainment gaming, I mean
anywhere where you're creatingthese virtual worlds and
immersive, I think those arethose are key.
(29:12):
I will say one that really isthe lead that me as a person and
a marketer maybe battle a littlebit is around like fashion
beauty.
Um that is a space that leansheavily into it.
But it's it's a fine linebecause you're in a space where
beauty, you're selling beauty,and you're selling beauty with
(29:33):
something that's not real.
It's hard.
That's a hard line to navigatewith um how you're being
culturally sensitive or how howyou are kind of disclosing that
and interacting with theaudiences.
So that one is probably one ofthe leading categories, but
maybe one that I struggle with alittle bit on a personal level.
SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
I think fashion I yeah, I I do think there's a
difference between beauty andfashion, right?
So I think beauty, you know, howpeople look, how they feel about
themselves, a lot of that.
I think I You have to be supercautious with and having an a
synthetic person who's has noflaws, or even if they were
flaws, they were created flaws,is not doesn't feel right to me.
(30:13):
I mean, personally.
But with fashion, you know, Ithink it gives you it could give
you an opportunity to testcertain styles in a very, you
know, we'll call it a safe wayor an easy way to test styles,
and then from there be able totake that to production, right?
Um, and I think, you know, therehave been a lot of retailers
who've tested something similarwhere not necessarily used AI,
(30:36):
but like put a product outthere, seeing how fast it sells.
And if it sells fast, then theygo ahead and they do a full, uh,
a full run based upon the thespeed in which it sells out.
So it is it is reallyinteresting.
So what guardrails do you thinkshould be placed?
I know we talked a little bitabout transparency, but are
there are there some specificguardrails that you think um
(30:56):
make this platform of AIinfluencer uh work better?
Or do we just say, you knowwhat, let's just hold on doing
it and not not approach it foranother year or two?
SPEAKER_00 (31:08):
Yeah, I think I mean, like we say with anything
AI, there's still gotta be ahuman element to it.
There's gotta be human involvedin interviewing.
Keep the human in the loop.
Um so I think that's that'sgonna be key.
Um I think also making sure thatthere's important layers of like
the the cultural sensitivity andthinking about that also in
(31:31):
terms of how it can be scaled.
Yeah.
Um, because an AI influencertalking to me in Arkansas may
look different to somewhere elsein the US, and then add the fact
that the internet's everywhere,um, making it go global.
So I think that's having that umkey element there, as we do with
all of AI, making sure to checkbiases and making sure that
(31:52):
those things are scalable.
Um, of course, just like generalrisk assessment as part of that
like human element, making surewe're reviewing it.
Um, and then I think one of thethings it's not necessarily a
guardrail, but something toincorporate is really the fun
side.
Um, we don't want it to be therobot.
Like we like influencers becausethey have either a niche,
(32:13):
something we like about them.
SPEAKER_02 (32:15):
I think make them human but not too human.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
Yeah, make them human but not too human.
Give them a party trick orsomething.
I don't know.
Um my party trick was alwaysdoing the Carlton.
Um, but maybe maybe they havetheir thing um that that kind of
helps integrate, integratethere.
And if nothing else, use it as atool to kind of gut check and
then and go and then go workwith the go work with the human
(32:38):
influencers and let them dotheir thing.
And honestly, the human issometimes where the best stuff
has come out in our content.
SPEAKER_02 (32:45):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's definitely a veryinteresting space.
I see it definitely evolving umover time.
And I think as as people'sattitudes change towards AI or
evolve with AI, I think you'llsee more and more of these um
these things.
But I also think there will be avalue that will be put on uh
(33:05):
human, you know, human versusAI, you know, around that
authenticity and around being areal human being.
So really interesting space.
So um thanks for sharing that.
Talk about influencer content,right?
That's an area you know reallywell, right?
And so one of the things thathas evolved with influencer
content is a lot of timesinfluencer content was looked at
(33:27):
as a brand building exercise,right?
And so influencers would go andthey work with a brand and they
would talk about a brand.
But now, and it's not like it'snever been this way, but it
seems to be more and moreopportunity to take that
influencer content and make itwork at retail, right?
And so, you know, as retailmedia becomes as, well, it's
(33:50):
become extremely big, right?
And it continues to evolve, andthere is a lot of opportunity
within retail media, there isthis idea of like, how do I take
all this content uh that I thatI've created with an influencer
and really make it work in a ina retail media channel?
(34:10):
And obviously there are somechannels within retail media
that make a lot more sense, somethat are probably a little bit
more challenging, but you know,just the ability to repurpose
this content in a lot ofdifferent ways.
The other side of it too is Ithink I would contend that
retail media requires many moreassets on a more regular basis
(34:31):
than any brand-facing mediabecause retail moves so fast,
there's so many changes as well.
So, you know, you have a fewthings.
You have this idea that you havethis influencer content that
you've created and you want tomaximize the value of this
influencer-created content orcontent creation.
And then you have the side of,well, I need so many new assets,
(34:54):
and and you know, to my my buyeris asking for more, and I want
to create content that worksspecifically for that retailer,
right?
And so you've just had thisexplosion of content needs,
right?
So how in your in your world andthe way you look at influencer
content, what are things thatyou really think can help make
(35:16):
that content extend its valueand work well for retail?
SPEAKER_00 (35:21):
Yeah, one of the simplest things we do is vary
the the types of content we'regetting.
We we get a mix of things ofboth video still content.
Um and we also work with umcreators to maybe work in a way
that can be more evergreen.
Um, so majority of the contentis centered around the product,
(35:42):
but maybe beginning or end oryou know, just a finite section
is dedicated to like theretailer conversion driving, um,
that call to action.
We also tend to do a mix ofelements within the still
imagery.
You know, let's make sure we geta good variety of the product
and the retailer and then justthe product.
Um, make sure the lifestyle iswhat really shines through.
(36:06):
And we know that a lot of theretailers reward and want more
lifestyle type imagery used inin their um placements and
things that you can buy.
And so we do work really closelywith creators to to do a
variation there um and make surewe have have some ways we can
optimize it on and off umretailer sites or or other buys.
SPEAKER_02 (36:29):
Do you typically work with creators that have
already worked with retail inthe past so to make that process
more streamlined, right?
Because I would imagine likeworking with a a creator that
has never worked with retailbefore, they're not going to
understand really therequirements, right?
SPEAKER_00 (36:43):
We definitely lean into more um retail
affinity-based uh creators whenwe're working with with you know
a more shopper marketing focusand and tend to work with those
that have worked with thosespecific retailers.
But if they haven't worked withthat one, most have a very
similar expectation or style.
Right.
Um and and definitely lean intothem to have some expertise and
(37:08):
then also sometimes push us abit because they're also
consumers.
They're they're type ofmarketer, but they're also a
consumer.
So it's kind of nice that we getsomebody that knows the drill
but also pushes pushes theenvelope a little bit.
SPEAKER_02 (37:21):
So, what has been like the most creative way that
you've seen some of this contentused in a retail media
ecosystem?
SPEAKER_00 (37:28):
Yeah, I think the most creative is when we don't
just move it from influencersocial to retail media social or
or or website.
I think when it crosses athreshold into store, it really
on paper, that doesn't soundsuper creative, but when you
think about a social influencerin store, that's huge.
(37:49):
Um, one of my it was also afavorite.
Very first, one of my very firstcampaigns was an original song.
Um really.
What?
Um maybe you maybe you heard it.
Um it was a holiday song, and sowe pushed and did an in-store
cut of the song, and so itplayed on in-store radio.
So that's probably not somethingyou would bring to the table at
(38:10):
a first idea client, right?
Like that's a a a differentvariation, but I think there's
other ways we haven't even begunto think about using in-store.
SPEAKER_02 (38:18):
Just so just to narrow that down for the people
that are listening so they theyunder follow that.
So you worked with a creator,and that creator made a custom
song for a campaign.
SPEAKER_00 (38:30):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (38:30):
And that campaign was for a specific retailer,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (38:34):
Yes, yes.
It was um, I think we can sayit, Walmart.
Yes, um, and so um we we usedthat song across the campaign
more broadly.
We integrated into otherinfluencers' content as well.
So that song spanned um the thecampaign holistically.
But then yes, we we made thesong specific to that retailer
(38:57):
and they loved it and played iton in-store radio during the
holidays, which is a prime, Imean, prime real estate, prime
time um to have brain exposureand even to have that that
musical artist's music reachingnew masses.
SPEAKER_02 (39:11):
And one of the things I've always thought was
always a smart idea is to give aretailer the opportunity to have
a creator that is dedicated toto them, right?
So make that unique.
So if you have a specificprogram and you're running it
across multiple retailers, youknow, have a different creator
(39:33):
for each retailer and have themcreate content that is bespoke
to that retailer and thatretailer's messaging and that
retailer's shopper, right?
And so when you can do that, andwhen you have something that is
a valuable asset, like a song,right?
Determining what are the bestways to distribute that asset
(39:54):
throughout that ecosystem.
And so, like a lot of times, youknow, retailers like Walmart,
they're not creating songsspecifically for a CPG category,
right?
Why would they do that, right?
But if it's somebody that's inCPG, a brand in CPG, want to
create a song, and then, oh,well, by the way, Walmart, you
can use this in your own, youknow, through your own channels.
(40:16):
I mean, it just extends thevalue of that content.
You, you know, it's you know,brands have invested a
significant amount of money inthe in that space.
And so it's really about gettingthat value.
And then of course, you know,you're you're earning
credibility with your merchantat the same time, right?
Oh, this is fun, this is cool,this is specifically to this
category.
(40:36):
So it really feels like that'sthat's one really a really good
unlock is content that is uniqueand bespoke to that specific
retailer that can be reused inpurpose across multiple
purposes.
Now, I know you and we've workedtogether a long time, but there
are probably some legal thingsthat need to be considered in a
(41:00):
situation like that.
What would what what would someof that be?
Because I know you've you'reyou've been really good at
influencer contracts.
I know you hate influencercontracts, but you're really
good at it.
So some of the some of thethings I because I don't think
people think about that.
Oh, I'll just get with aninfluencer and they'll create a
piece of content.
I can do whatever I want withit.
Well, that's not always thecase, is it?
SPEAKER_00 (41:19):
No, um, yeah, I kind of joke um when the pandemic
hit, I also earned my lawdegree.
Um, there's I mean, there's alot and that goes into it, and
there's a lot of limitations interms of what you can ask for
and also what you're gonna getfor the price.
Um what what you got probably 10years ago, five years ago, and
even two years ago is verydifferent than what you get
(41:41):
today.
So one of the biggest things isnavigating the usage and not
only how long you can use it,um, but where.
Um most savvy influencers aregonna maybe give you social and
web and pay in like paid mediause.
Um, but things like in-store aregonna cost you, or if you see
(42:03):
something like on a connected TVad, um that's that's crossing a
different threshold, right?
That's getting kind of toe inthe line of being an actor.
Um, so there's a lot there.
Um and the more you you use it,the more um it can be governed
by other bodies too.
So not just being an influencerpiece of content, um, you start
(42:25):
getting to things like SAGAFTRA.
Um, and and people areconsidered um being an actor, or
in that case on music, um therethe after part covers the music.
So there's a lot there thatpeople just don't really
understand, and there's a lot ofrisk too, in terms of, you know,
just the many terms that youhave to negotiate.
(42:45):
So a lot to learn there, but umthere's definitely some great
standards that have been set.
And and a lot of brands havereally kind of figured out like
their sweet spot too.
Um, because to your point, thedemand for the number of number
of assets and the things thatturn over, you might not need to
(43:07):
use it for five years.
So maybe don't go after thatbecause you're you need
refreshed.
SPEAKER_02 (43:11):
Oh, we want it in perpetuity.
SPEAKER_00 (43:13):
We want it in perpetuity.
Um, yeah, scary word.
Uh still do that occasionally.
But yeah, I think there'sdefinitely some more standards
being in place and kind ofexpectations that that
everyone's kind of figured outas this has become a more
prevalent part of the process.
SPEAKER_02 (43:28):
Yeah, one part I think is really important also
to think about in this space islike have a content plan.
I think it's too often, youknow, it's uh a program is
looked at in isolation.
Oh, I'm gonna have aninfluencer, influencer is gonna
create content.
Great.
Well, what are you gonna do withthat content?
Well, I don't know.
I don't know what we're gonna dowith that content really.
(43:49):
Like, oh yeah, you know, maybewe'll boost it through social or
or whatever, but like have acontent plan.
Like, you know, so many timesthere are assets that go unused
because there's no plan, right?
And so, like, how can you getthe value out of what you just
spent if you don't have a planon how to really use that
content?
SPEAKER_00 (44:07):
Yeah, that's definitely I that's one of the
very first things I I stop andask before we get, you know,
start checking off, okay.
We this need this many years andthis, it's it let's talk, let's
step back, let's talk about yourbigger usage, let's, or you
know, your bigger campaign planor um your strategy over the
next one year, two years, andthat can help us shape it.
(44:28):
Um, because I think a lot oftimes people do want to just
jump in and start makingcontent.
And then you learn down thestretch, like, man, you know
what actually performs best withthis audience?
Static.
And guess what we didn't get?
SPEAKER_02 (44:40):
No, wow.
No static.
SPEAKER_00 (44:42):
Um, or maybe we we shot a video and um all of the
call to action is at the end andpeople are dropping off after 10
seconds.
Like having that plan andknowing ahead helps us to frame
up the storytelling and what wecapture, making sure we have the
right elements along with howlong you're using it.
SPEAKER_02 (45:01):
Great insights, Emma.
I know you you've been in thatspace quite a long time.
And it's been great, great tohave your voice leaning into
this topic.
It's, you know, I think youknow, assets and content
creation is, you know, an againanother area in retail that is
going to continue to be anopportunity uh for brands and
for retailers and obviously, youknow, partners, you know, like
(45:21):
like the company you work for aswell.
So um awesome.
So thanks for that.
All right.
So now we get to end thingstoday with a new segment called
Campaigns We Love.
And so uh Emma I have done Emmaand I have done this this
segment uh previously totogether where we uh we search
(45:42):
the internet for, or maybe youmust see it on something called
a TV, but you know, search theinternet or a TV, and we might
find an ad that we findparticularly interesting.
So um first one we're gonna haveis Emma.
You're you have you have onefrom Huggies that you want to
present as a campaign that youlove.
SPEAKER_00 (46:01):
Yes.
Um so Huggies launched Do It forthe Team.
Okay.
Um, nine months ahead of theWorld Cup.
SPEAKER_02 (46:09):
Nine months.
It seems like an interestingtime frame.
SPEAKER_00 (46:11):
Very strategic, it sounded like, um, but perfectly
timed, um, very, you know,cultural timing in the sitting
largest single sport drawglobally.
SPEAKER_01 (46:22):
Yeah, World Cup is a little bit world.
SPEAKER_00 (46:26):
Right.
Um but really, I mean, justfunny, they they launched a long
form 10-minute like moodsetting.
I won't get into what thatmeans, but they offered a
sweepstakes to go along with it.
So a supply of free diapers forsix weeks starting in June 2026.
If you, you know, maybe are partof this movement, if you will.
(46:49):
So just a fun um way to playinto the cultural timing, to,
you know, maybe be a brand fitor find a way to be a brand fit.
Sometimes it's not an obviousplay.
So what do you think?
I mean, I'm drawn to diapersbecause I'm still in that world,
but does it shine for you?
SPEAKER_02 (47:08):
Well, I think you know, having uh a reason to take
time off from work to watchsports is a good reason to do
anything.
And so I would say that yeah, Ithink, you know, I think it's
it's smart.
Um and it it does, it does, itis definitely very, very cheeky
(47:28):
and it kind of fits into youknow the right cultural, you
know, timing of things.
So um, yeah, I mean, obviouslythere's a lot of people who love
the World Cup and will be gluedto TV for that.
And so, you know, why not kindof pair those things together?
So that's that's really cool.
SPEAKER_00 (47:44):
Hey, as someone that was on maternity leave during
March Madness, which is like, myholy grail, I get it.
Take the time and enjoy if ifthat's that's one of your loves.
SPEAKER_02 (47:54):
All right.
So my campaign, Emma, is Walmartwith their Who Knewville holiday
campaign.
So Who Knew has been Walmart'splatform uh for uh several
months, you know, maybe it's thefull year at this point, around
you know, introducing people touh to Walmart, like almost
reintroducing Walmart toconsumers again.
(48:18):
Uh, because I think you know,there are perceptions or have
been perceptions about Walmart,and this is reintroducing what
what those perceptions could be.
Um, and Walmart does offer waymore than I think what people
expected.
So I think it's a great uhplatform campaign campaign.
But you know, a person likemyself, I love nostalgia.
And so this one really leansinto for the holiday season,
(48:41):
leans into you know, Dr.
Seuss's inspired type of ofworld and in Hooville and really
makes it very imaginative andreally kind of brings together,
you know, the best of you knowwhat Walmart is introducing with
this nostalgia and the season ofthe holiday season and bringing
(49:04):
all of that uh together, youknow.
And so, you know, it's it's it'sbeen something that I've I've
found to be really interestingand the way they've approached
it and and brought that tolight.
So that that's you know, mycampaign is Who Knew Bill?
SPEAKER_00 (49:18):
Yeah, that honestly, I love it.
They've been leaning just sowell into that nostalgia space
and just I think about the backto school mean girls when that
launched, that was such a bigmoment.
Um, so I really I love that.
Like it really is that's kind ofbeen their their vibe, if you
will, the last few years.
They've really leaned well intosome of those type of
storytelling moments, too.
SPEAKER_02 (49:37):
Love love some tea pain.
Definitely was a musical moment,we'll call it with with the with
tea pain.
So awesome.
Well, thanks for thanks forsharing that.
Uh so I hope you all like thecamp campaigns we love.
Uh, we'll bring more of those inuh future episodes of Retail
Media Vibes.
All right.
Well, that's a wrap for thisepisode of Retail Media Vibes.
(50:00):
I want to say a huge thank youto Emma Curry for joining me on
this uh this episode andbringing her vibes to the show
today.
Um, anything, Emma, that youwant to plug or talk about
before we wrap things up today?
SPEAKER_00 (50:15):
Yeah, I mean, two main things.
So, first, it's it's holidayseason.
The team has been cranking outsome amazing work and working
incredibly hard.
So excited that that content isgoing to be out there.
So maybe check out um either myLinkedIn or SheSpeaks for some
of that in the near future.
But before I kind of wrap up, Ido want to say a huge thank you
and shout out to the campaignsteam at SheSpeaks.
(50:38):
You have been incredible and Iam so impressed with everything
that you've been able toaccomplish.
So thank you all for that.
Um, but lastly, kind of moreimportantly, this time of year
especially, um I'm really movedto make sure that people have,
you know, a warm, full bellyduring the holiday season.
So if you're looking for aplace, if you're able to give, I
(51:00):
encourage you to give to a localfood bank.
And you can find one by umvisiting feedingamerica.org and
either doing a monetary donationor going in person.
Um, so those are the vibes I'mending with today.
SPEAKER_02 (51:14):
Awesome.
Well, thanks for that, Emma.
Appreciate that.
So I hope you all enjoyed thisepisode of Retail Media Vibes.
If you have any comments orfeedback on the show, please
send me a note at retailmediavibes at gmail.com.
Also, be sure to like,subscribe, provide comments to
the to to the content so thatmore people learn about retail
(51:36):
media vibes.
So thank you all so much.
And as always, I will try to dobetter next time.
So BV out of the
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