Ep. 8 - Secondhand Is the New Mainstream

Attention is scarce, noise is cheap, and shoppers are rewriting the rules. We sit down with brand and growth strategist Erin Campbell to map the new terrain: how to reach people who spend 13 hours a day with media yet crave less clutter and more connection. The core idea that anchors our exchange is simple and hard: tactics are table stakes, meaning is the moat. Erin breaks down how to identify the heart of your audience, connect it to the soul of your brand, and build a brand world that travels across touchpoints with texture instead of repetition.

From there, we dive into the boom in secondhand shopping, and why it’s more than thrift. Resale blends value, sustainability, and identity, empowering buyers to access rare goods and express taste with provenance. We compare platforms like eBay and GOAT, talk authentication and trust, and explore why brands shouldn’t rush to “own” the resale moment so much as craft products and stories worthy of second lives. You’ll hear practical angles on scarcity with purpose, community lore, and making goods that age into artifacts.

We also explore the analog comeback: vinyl, paper books, film cameras, even corded phones for kids. After years of chasing frictionless everything, intentional friction feels like relief. Analog rituals offer presence, delayed gratification, and shared memory, things digital rarely sustains. We spotlight LEGO’s mindful build experiences and why designing for calm can be a competitive edge. Along the way we weigh quick hits, from Toys "R" Us 2.0 and experiential retail to Apple’s pricey phone sock and Doug McMillon’s Walmart legacy, and extract lessons any operator can use.

If this conversation sparked ideas, follow the show, share it with a teammate, and leave a review.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:07):
What's up, party people?
BV here, and welcome to anotherepisode of Retail Media Vibes, a
doing business in Bettonvillepodcast.
This show is part of the DoingBusiness in Bettonville Media
Network, where we work todemystify and advance
omnichannel retail.
We're recording live here inRogers, Arkansas at Podcast

(00:27):
Videos Studios, and we have abanger of a show for you today.
So in studio with me today isgoing to be Erin Campbell, and
we'll get to meet her in just aminute.
And our rundown of our maintopics today are the new shopper
attention in an age of digitaloverload.
We have the rise of secondhandshopping, and the analog

(00:48):
experience is back.
So we'll those will be our maintopics for us today.
So a lot to get into.
I'm really excited to hear whatAaron has to say.
So with that, let's get a chanceto meet Aaron.
All right, Aaron, before we jumpinto some really big topics, uh
big meaty topics today, um,let's kick off with a little

(01:10):
vibe check, get to know you alittle bit uh for the listeners.
Um, and so let's just start offwith pretty easy, you know, a
little bit about Aaron and youknow, your background and what
would you say you do?

SPEAKER_01 (01:23):
You think that's easy, but for an Enneagram six
who's an introvert, that's themost terrifying question that
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
All right.
Well, lay it on this.

SPEAKER_01 (01:32):
Well, you know, because I've had the pleasure of
working with you for very manyyears and then staying your
friend and your professionalpeer, which has been um really
uh fun to see us both exploreand evolve and new and different
things.
And this feels congratulations.
This feels so cool.

SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
Thanks, thanks.

SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
Yeah.
So I've had a really I call thetrifecta of experience in brand
and CPG and business, where I'vehad the opportunity to service,
service both big and smallbrands on the agency side, as
well as build my own brand, myown CPG brand myself, and really
learn the ins and outs of howyou build something from a white
piece of paper, bring value andmeaning to it from the retailer

(02:13):
side, from the business side,from the consumer side.
And then also I dipped my toe onthe retailer side as well.
And so I've got to see acrossthose three verticals and the
continuum from startup toreally, really mature, uh mature
companies.
But what I really say is I Ilike to think of myself as a
brand and growth strategist.

(02:34):
And right now I'm in the spotwhere I'm really advising really
kind of startup brands,primarily female founders and
really supporting them to findand scale on their own terms.
And when I say scale, I meantheir PL, their growth, but also
their purpose and their impactthat they're having on the
community and the tribe and theaudience that they serve, and

(02:55):
also scaling their mental healthbecause it's not great if you
have a founder burning at bothends and then they don't get to
leave their legacy that fueledthem in the first place.

SPEAKER_02 (03:04):
Yeah.
Wow, yeah, definitely a bingocard of you know experiences
that you've had.
And, you know, I you know, Irecollect when we first started
working together and your, youknow, your insight into you know
shopper behavior is how I got togot to know you and shopper
strategy and all around that.
And you know, it's been great tosee you, you know, grow your
career and grow youropportunities into all those

(03:26):
things that you mentionedbefore.
So uh excited again to have youon uh on the show.
So let's do a few littleicebreaker questions, a little
vibe, vibe question, a few vibequestions.

SPEAKER_01 (03:35):
I'm gonna pass.

SPEAKER_02 (03:36):
Uh you will pass, definitely.
Nobody has failed yet.
And so first time.
But you know, what was what'sthe last impulse buy you made
online?

SPEAKER_01 (03:45):
So it was actually this morning.
So I know real time.
Real time.

SPEAKER_02 (03:51):
Are you shopping as we're having this conversation?

SPEAKER_01 (03:53):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
And with the chip that's insidemy head.
Or agentically.
Exactly.
Um, so I, you know, it's it'sNovember.
And starting in November, I makeTikTok gift guides, like my
entire personality.
I just love consuming thesecurated gifts with the hope I
can find the perfect gift, and Iend up buying a lot of stuff for

(04:14):
myself as a byproduct.
So you're curating the contentor I am relying on other
curators who say, you know,here's the cool girl gift guide,
or here's the guide for thehard-to-buy boy tween.
Or if you have a cool guy inyour life, then here's what they
really want.
Um, because I let I let peoplewho have more time and more

(04:34):
interest do all the hard work,and then I just get to reap
their benefits.
But one particular uh there's alot of repeats.
And so I've now been able to seekind of I should write a trend
report actually about I, youknow, I'm I'm thinking about
that.

SPEAKER_02 (04:46):
You should, you know, write that for reaching
video vibes.

SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
That's right.

SPEAKER_02 (04:49):
Okay, well, we'll start the newsletter.

SPEAKER_01 (04:51):
I love it.
Um, but there was this I loveathleisure.
I love athleisure that kind ofgives you a personality.
And I came across this brandthat I'd never heard of.
Maybe you have dandy, uh, dandybrands.
They do putties.
They're very good.

SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
They're very cute.
Definitely a way underratedgarment.

SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Absolutely.
And one that has an expressivepoint of view is even better
that can transpose a messagebetween the wearer and the
bystander.
And this one, yeah, they had alot of great, like, let's go on
an adventure, let's go on a roadtrip, let's watch sunsets, but
mine said your dailyaffirmations.
And then it was like a um kindof map of, I've got you, you got

(05:29):
this, I love you, I hear you.
And so I can't wait to wear it.
That sounds really cool.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (05:33):
So, you know, gift guide for others that yeah, it
was interesting about thatgarment is just like it feels
like you it's putting the userinto an experience of some of
some sort of obviously it'sgonna depend on on the the motif
of the of the garment, right?
But it is really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
Yeah, and it it invites a conversation, it
expresses a personality whilebeing comfortable all in one.

SPEAKER_02 (05:59):
I like it.
I like it.
Yeah, um, so I I love nostalgia.
Okay, I like thinking aboutwhat's happened in the past and
how it impacts the future.
But if you were going to bring aretailer from the past back, who
would that be?
Or what you know, what retailerwould that be?

SPEAKER_01 (06:15):
Yeah, no, that's a really great question because we
uh live and breathe a retail.
Yeah.
Um, and you know, I think I findretail really, really
interesting.
Um, so you know, kind ofBlockbuster came.
I know was it Brad who saidBlockbuster?

SPEAKER_02 (06:28):
Uh Tom.
Yeah, it's Tom.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
Tom said Blackb, Blockbuster, and even like Radio
Shack, because there's this verynostalgic uh feeling of when I
was a teenager going to the mallwith my parents.
But I ended up, I really thinkBody Shop is a really great
example of a retail experience.
Sensorial, it was curated, andit was really kind of this

(06:51):
disruptor in the beauty spacewhen clean beauty and kind of
ethical standards were reallynot in the conversation yet.
And I have these very vividmemories of going and finding
them in airports when I was ayoung adult or even an older
teen.
And so they're connected tothese very powerful memories or

(07:13):
this feeling of anticipation, ofum wonder.
And they put a sensorialplacemarker to that memory with
their trial of the scrubs andthe lotions and then the the
very fruity, earthy, umwonderful sense that they have

(07:34):
as soon as you walk into thedoor.
So they may still be around, butthey're just not as prolific as
they used to be.

SPEAKER_02 (07:41):
They actually gave me an idea for another topic
another day is like retail atairports, right?
And you know, some of theopportunities there as well.
So uh thanks for the thanks forthe idea.
You know, I'll credit you thenext time I have that have that
up on the cast.
Um all right.
So this one's a little bit of afun one.
So recently, Taco Bell partneredwith Venmo to create a taco belt

(08:06):
holster.
So it's exactly what you wouldthink it is.

SPEAKER_01 (08:08):
Absolutely.
I've waited this my whole life.

SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
It's it's it's it's a belt, leather belt, has a
holster on it specifically for ataco.
They gave it out to like 75people who are randomly reward
members, etc.
Um, so you know, the taco belthost holster.
What other fast food item needsa holster?

SPEAKER_01 (08:30):
My my here's my you better not steal mine.

SPEAKER_02 (08:32):
Oh, well, maybe my gosh, okay.
I think there should be achicken nugget fanny pack.

SPEAKER_00 (08:37):
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 (08:38):
And with a little with a with a little cup, you
know, sauce cup holder, right?
So I think you know, you getyour get your your your pack
with all your nuggets in thereand you pull one out and you dip
it in your sauce.
Like that's that's that's mine.
What do you what do you have?

SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
Okay, mine is somewhat similar.
So I would want a holster forMcDonald's French fries and then
a little cup for my ketchup.
And I don't know if you've seensome of the billboards
McDonald's has done.
They've done a really nice jobabout unlocking kind of usage
occasions because we're a busyfamily, but I I try to eat
healthy.
We don't frequent McDonald'svery often, but every time we're

(09:12):
on a road trip, it's McDonald's.
And do you know how hard it isto eat your French fries,
dipping them into ketchup whileI'm trying to keep my hands on
the wheel?

SPEAKER_02 (09:23):
It's yeah, you can't do that.
No, and you're not ordering asalad either, right?

SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
At McDonald's, no.

unknown (09:28):
No.

SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
Okay.
Well, they have them, right?

SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
I know, but that's not why I go to McDonald's.

SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
Okay.
All right.
Well, all right, cool.
All right, Aaron.
That's that was those greaticebreakers, great vibe check.
So appreciate your yourinsights.
Great to get to know you andhave the audience get to know
you a bit.
So we're gonna move on now toour quick hit topics.
Let's do this.
All right, so let's do ourlittle quick hit topics.
So these are just you know, newnoteworthy, newsworthy topics.

(09:53):
Um, kind of get your yourinitial reaction on some of
these stories that have hit theheadlines here in uh in the last
couple of weeks.
So Toys R Us.
All right, Toys R Us, they'remaking this uh this slow and
steady resurrection.
Um, it's continuing.
They've added uh and areplanning to add nearly 30

(10:14):
additional stores, right?
So they had bankruptcy, theykind of went away, somebody
rebuy, you know, kind of kept ahold of the brand and then now
they're starting to bring itback.
Um, and so I think a lot of youknow, a lot of toy companies are
probably getting excited about,you know, having another uh
another retailer to have for fordistribution.
Um, so I'm personally excitedabout it.

(10:36):
I've definitely grew up as aToys R Us kid.
My kids were Toys R Us kids.
I could actually sing the song,but I will spare everyone
involved uh with singing it.
Um and have spent a ton of timein Toys R Us store.
So, you know, my question foryou is are you a Toys R Us kid?
And do you think Toys R Us canmake that, you know, come back,

(10:58):
you know, um all the way back?

SPEAKER_01 (11:00):
Definitely I'm a Toys R Us kid.
Again, I have those visceralmemories of walking through the
shy aisles with a um wonder andseeing, you know, what toy can I
I I convinced my parents to buy.
Um, I think it is a fantasticbrand to reboot.
I do think that they need tomake some careful
considerations.

(11:21):
Obviously, with nostalgia beingreally in the kind of cultural
conversation right now,especially the 90s with all the
Red Lobster and TI Fridays comeback.
I think that nostalgic trendreally informs the why now.
Why now should Toys R Us comeforward?
Hopefully, they just use thatnostalgia trend uh for the

(11:43):
timing and not necessarily uhthe strategic lever for how they
come back, because I don't thinknostalgia is enough of a um
strategy to make them win.
And I think they have a realopportunity to look at the new
consumer and understand in aworld of where choice and
convenience is um the click of abutton, what really is the

(12:05):
opportunity for an in-store toyretailer to deliver?
And I think they have a lot ofreally good proxies.
If you look at the Jelly CatCafe in New York, uh, the
American Doll whole dayexperience.
And I think the one that isreally interesting is
Build-A-Bear.
And I actually just did someresearch for uh a German toy

(12:25):
brand that I partner with.
And Build a Bear has hadtremendous um rapid success
since COVID.

SPEAKER_02 (12:32):
Yeah, yeah.
It was stock surprising.

SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
Stock went from$1 to $70 in less than five years.
And I actually just looked upthere, they're on track for over
half a billion um in revenue andand um record profits.
But when you really start todissect what they do and where
Toys R Us has the opportunity toapply, it's not about a
warehouse of toys.

(12:54):
And even I would say it's noteven really about just a brand
shop within a shop.
They do some really interestingthings.
It's very based off of a ritualor it's a celebration or it's a
process that they invite theirusers to step into.
And throughout that ritual, theyleave with a token, the bear,
but what they really are sellingis a memory.

(13:17):
And so that's where Toys R Ushas an opportunity to say, how
do I create this space andcreate this immersive,
sensorial, holistic ritual thatallows their customers to create
these core memories in a waythat Amazon can't do.
So I mean, some really coolideas would be how do you have

(13:39):
scavenger hunt birthday parties?
Or how do you create a ceremonyor certificate when a kid buys
their first bike?
Or the other thing Build-Abeardoes is I think I saw 40% of
their audience is not kids,they're teens and adults.
So Toys R Us kids, it goes backto your cadulting.

SPEAKER_02 (13:56):
Yes, absolutely.
I was thinking about condulting,yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
And so kid is more figurative than literal.
And so, how do you service thewhole life cycle of a consumer?
So I think it's really how dothey go really deep and and and
not um so broad in their intheir activation?

SPEAKER_02 (14:16):
Yeah, I I think of it in in, I think most retail
can do this, and I think Toys RUs has an opportunity to do this
especially well is thisexperiential discovery, right?
So we're always we're we'retalking about discovery all the
time.
How do you discover newproducts, new brands?
And then you have thisopportunity with experiential.
Like, how do you make thatimmersive and engaging
experience that to your pointbecomes memorable for that

(14:37):
shopper and and the the adult,right?
You know, the adult, the kid,the combination of the two,
bringing them together andmaking it make it a special
moment.
So if Toys R Us can can tap intothat, I think they have an
opportunity to build somethingreally special, to your point,
not just another place to buytoys.

SPEAKER_01 (14:55):
Yeah, that's right.
And I I hope what they don't dois just rely on the really
powerhouse brand franchises tokind of bring those more
fragmented, isolated experiencesto life.
And that they actually look at aholistic, kind of integrated
experience.
But I also love what you said.
It's like this is an opportunityto connect people, to bring
community, to um give mesomething as a mom that I can

(15:18):
relate to with my son.
And then we walk out with ashared memory.
I mean, that's really powerful.

SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
Yeah, those are very powerful moments for sure.
All right.
All right, let's let's move onto a slightly different, a
different topic.
Um, Apple.
Okay, so we're gonna talk aboutApple.
Apple dropped a 229 phone sock,right?
And so they call it the iPhonepocket.
Um, it's a premium sock for yourphone.

(15:43):
I think there's a one that hangson your arm and then one that's
kind of like a sling, like asling sling bag.
I think that's probably the moreexpensive one is the sling bag.
And so it's like, I know you'reinto fashion, right?
You you you you're definitelysomeone who has an eye for
fashion.
And um, this was done by afashion label, um, Issi Maya
Mayaki.

(16:03):
Um and so the idea was reallycreating an additional pocket,
right?
So I don't have enough pockets.
And obviously a lot of um a lotof uh clothing, women's clothing
don't have a lot of pockets,right?
Typically, right?
Unless there's somethingspecific about it.
Um and so like is this just isthis really a product that can

(16:24):
really is it solving a problem?
Is it is what what what are yourthoughts around this whole
thing?
Like the internet's gone a buzz,social media's gone a buzz about
this is stupid, this is crazy.
Is it is it really stupid andcrazy?
No, it is stupid and crazy.
Okay, is it the price?
Like if it was$19.99, yeah,would it be, oh, well, this is
cool.

SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
Well, I think there's a couple things, and I
think they're really in thismushy middle, which is actually
what's making them so memeableright now.
Right.
I think I see what they weretrying to do.
They're trying to assert thatthey are Apple is a design
house, and that extends to howyou can wear your iPhone or or
transitioning your iPhone into awearable.
And it does have some reallynice kind of historical legacy

(17:07):
uh roots.
The the designer, the EC Ms.
Miyaki, he designed Steve Jobs,famous black turtleneck.
So when you start to kind ofuncover the layers, it is kind
of interesting, but I think itwas the wrong time and it ends
up coming a little tone-deaf.
So it's incredibly expensive forwhat people are calling a uh,
you know, a a stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
But it's a fashion fashion from a designer, right?
Those things are expensive.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
But I think where what's happening is there's a
couple of things.
If it's obviously not a revenuedriver, so they're they're not
gonna make or break their theirquarterly earnings from the
stock.
So then you have to assume it'sa PR strategy, which we're
talking about it.
But to be a productive PRstrategy to move the brand
forward and make sure it doesn'tbecome a meme, you either need

(17:53):
to be so functional, it changesbehavior, like it's so
innovative, or you need to be sopoignant that you are making a
point.
And the mismatch here is it'syes, it's design, but is it
really a function that serves aproblem that is currently not

(18:15):
solved?
I wear jeans, I put my pocket inmy jeans, or as a fashion
person, my bag, my purse as awoman is more of what I want to
express.
And so it feels like they'reappealing more to this elitist
and this fashion house, whichthat is not Apple's tribe.
That's not their audience.
Their audience is creators,they're builders, they are

(18:37):
people who want something thatis so beautifully designed, it
seamlessly almost disappears andintegrates into their everyday
life.
Or you and me, the everydayperson that it's worth paying
more for because thefunctionality is so good.
And the AppleSoft doesn't doeither one of those things.
So I think they've lost the plota little bit.

SPEAKER_02 (18:55):
Yeah, well, I I mean I think it's I think it's a fun
thing.
I think you're right.
I think, you know, and you Ialso thought about like, is
Apple just trolling us, right?
Yeah, I'm not sure you're gonnabe willing to pay for a sock
that has things around yourshoulder.

SPEAKER_01 (19:06):
A belt holster for your phone would have been
funnier.
Like if you're gonna go funny orironic, lean harder.

SPEAKER_02 (19:15):
But Apple accessories cost a lot anyway,
like compared to you know otherbrands, right?
And so if you're gonna buy theApple version of an Apple Watch
band or a case for your phone,you're gonna pay a lot more.
Now, this is you knowsignificantly more, probably at
least you know, 10x more, right?
You know, but it's definitely alot more.
So, yeah, good uh good pointsthere for sure.

(19:37):
And love how you kind of brokethat down.
Um all right, so with our thirdand final quick hit, let's talk
about Doug McMillan steppingdown.
Uh, he's retiring at the Ibelieve it's February of 2026.
And so he's been in that role asCEO of Walmart for I mean,
basically as long as I've beenin shopper marketing.

SPEAKER_01 (19:58):
2014, I think.

SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So just about as long as I'vebeen in it.
And it's like, you know, what doyou what are some of the things
you'll remember about in, youknow, Doug's tenure as CEO?

SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
First, um, I don't think it's a surprise to us.
I think the the man deserveshopefully a really good vacation
after this.
And I but I am I am sad becauseif you it took me gave me a
moment to kind of reflect backon his tenure with Walmart.
And when I think he took over,it it was at a really make or
break pivot point for forWalmart.
I mean, of course it wassuccessful, but it had the risk

(20:31):
of really becoming the nextKmart or Sears, right?
Becoming a dinosaur.
And uh Doug took the opportunityto kind of pump the brakes,
pause, and really build astrategy that would take them
into relevancy in for decades tocome.
And he had to do that by tellingthe board and then ultimately

(20:56):
telling Wall Street that theywere going to make significant
investments and the stock pricewould take a hit.
And we know Wall Street does notlike um short-term pain, but he
stepped up and said, it we needto invest in our digital, in our
tech infrastructure.
We need to invest in our people,and this will deliver a legacy

(21:19):
of Walmart that is gonnawithstand the encroachment of
Amazon.
And he's successfully done that.
And so I think you see a reallybalanced leader that can manage
for the short term effectivelybecause he's a high humanity
leader.
He's incredibly approachable.
He is charismatic and welcomingand kind and able to communicate

(21:43):
the why when it doesn't alwaysmake sense on the short-term
business numbers.
And then he has successfullybrought Walmart in to 2025 and
handing off a very differentbusiness than he was handed to
John Ferner, that really isgoing to just accelerate then
into the automation and AIrevolution.

SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
Right.
Yeah.
It's definitely been a greatjourney to see or reflect upon
for for Walmart.
Not everything was a hit overthat period of time.
Um, but you know, uh, you know,acquiring Jet.com, I think that
really helped them frome-commerce.
Obviously, Jet.com doesn'texist, but I think the
infrastructure, what they learnfrom the e-commerce space is

(22:24):
definitely uh fueling a lot oftheir e-commerce success that
they're having today.
I think, you know, he's beenable to um allow Walmart to kind
of change their position fromthat, yes, they're still, you
know, everyday low prices, butthey've also been able to reach
a more affluent shopper,shoppers that would would
probably in the past have notfocused on Walmart as a shopping

(22:48):
destination and and and broughtit and brought more high-income
shoppers into it as well.
That's not easy to do, right?
To change a position whereeverybody thinks that, oh, well,
that's where I go just to get mygroceries and I'm not gonna buy
a bunch of cheap stuff.
I'm not gonna buy my fashionthere.
But I mean, they've done a lotof great work in the fashion

(23:08):
space, right?
And you know, and you know, notto make start a whole
comparison, but you kind of lookat Target and how Target has
kind of taken taken a seat back.
Like Target used to be whereeverybody goes for fashion.
Walmart now is becoming you knowmuch more known for for that,
and Walmart and excuse me, andTarget less for that.
So it's it's really interestingto see them navigate the

(23:30):
currents.
And like I said before, youknow, some things were hits,
some things were not, but theyalways seem to be learning,
right?
And I think that's one of thethings that um I appreciate and
and admire about you know theorganization that Doug led was
uh an organization thatcontinued to learn, move fast,
you know, kept kept core totheir values, but still

(23:52):
continued to build upon that.
So I obviously wish him the bestsuccess in whatever his next
chapter looks like, but youknow, definitely one of the best
runs of a of a CEO for a companythat that the size of Walmart
that I've that I've witnessed,especially in my lifetime.

SPEAKER_01 (24:07):
100%.

SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
So great.

SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
Yeah, I mean, John, I'm excited to see what John
does.

SPEAKER_02 (24:11):
Yes.
Yeah.
Um and we have lots of time totalk about John in the future,
right?

SPEAKER_01 (24:15):
It's true, we do.

SPEAKER_02 (24:16):
Yeah, so it's that's great.
So, all right, well, that endsquick hit.
So appreciate your thoughtsthere.
So we're gonna now move over toour main topics.
All right, our first main topic,we're gonna talk about shoppers,
right?
And uh, and I've really had thisfascination with like changes in
behavior.
And honestly, like I learnedthat when I was at Satchi and
working with you honestly aboutthe you know, shopper behavior

(24:38):
and motivations and you know howuh those behaviors impact how we
work, how we communicate andmarket and advertise to
shoppers, but there's been a lotof change.
Um, I mean, I guess there's beena lot of change over the last 10
years or or in a lot of changeeven over the last two years.
You know, COVID was a lot ofchange, but you know, I would

(25:00):
say that overall, like shopperstoday are overwhelmed, they're
distracted, and they're movingfaster and faster.
It feels like just things keepcontinuing to accelerate,
accelerate, accelerate.
And their attention, you know,jumps between screens and
micromoments, right?
And so they're, you know,they're on their tablets,
they're on a TV, they've gottheir phone in their hands,

(25:20):
they're you know, engaging in somany different, you know,
digital and physicalexperiences, floating in
between, you know, all of thoseall the time.
Uh, and now we've included nowAI, right?
So AI is a whole nother layer ofyou know ways that you know are
going to pull attention awayfrom shoppers, right?
And really have obviously animpact on behavior, right?

(25:43):
There's no no doubt about that,right?
And you know, with all of thatstimulation, you know, they want
everything real time.
And it's just such a big changewith what people are are seems
like what people are are doing.
It used to be so simple back inthe day, right?
So I always sometimes I thinkabout oh, what was it like in

(26:04):
the 50s, 60s, 70s, um, as anadvertiser, right?
You have it was so simple.

SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
It's hard, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (26:13):
Right?
Yeah, a TV, yeah, yeah, prints,maybe a billboard, maybe some
advertising in store, dependingon you know, depending on how
how it went.
But it was so simple, right?
And as an advertiser and amarketer, you had those
channels, you learn thosechannels.
Now you've got like 52,000different channels, all these
micro moments, multiple socialnet media networks.

(26:37):
You know, people are spendingtime in gaming, people are
spending time on social, they'rewatching TV, they have their
phones in their hands, right?
So it's like uh even itoverwhelms me just thinking of
thinking about I can onlyimagine with the shopper,
shopper uh how they're feeling.
Um, but can US according toMcKinsey, US consumers now spend
13 hours a day with media.

(26:59):
That's that's a lot of hours perday.
And a lot of times it'smultitasking, right?
It's not just you know a single,a single form of media.
And their average screenattention, now this one blew me
away, actually, has dropped fromover over the last few years,
has dropped from two and a halfminutes to 47 seconds, right?

(27:19):
So that is that is a verysignificant decline in attention
span.
And yeah, I mean I'mself-professed ADD.
I I know my attention spanbounces around quite a bit.
I and so I can only you knowimagine.
So it's really have a like ahuge impact, you know, I think
in you know how an advertisercan reach this audience and the

(27:43):
expectations around reachingthis audience.
I think things are so fragmentednow.
How do you even plan to reachand actually make that you know
behavior change, right?
That's that's what shoppermarketing is all about is
behavior change.
How can you even do that?
And then when people arespending very little time when
they are spending time onsomething and they're switching

(28:05):
around, context switching likeconstantly, it's just you know,
it's like I said before, it'sit's really overwhelming.
But you know, how many mediachannels do you think you engage
with on a on a daily basis justto start it off?

SPEAKER_01 (28:18):
Oh, that's a really great question.
I probably don't even know.
But I mean, anything from apodcast to a recipe blog that I
linked on through Pinterest, um,to short YouTubes and trying to
learn how to pronounce fancy umdesigner names for the Apple

(28:38):
Socks, um, to maybe a reading anemail newsletter from my select
few kind of thought leaders thatI really respect, and then kind
of, you know, deselecting allthe rest from doom scrolling
TikTok.
Um, and then even just drivingaround and and seeing what's

(28:59):
around us.
So I I can't even imagine howmany.

SPEAKER_02 (29:01):
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I I would I would say,you know, you know, for me, you
know, on my phone, social, youknow, work, you know, work on my
laptop, you know, YouTube, alot.
I, you know, you to you know,YouTube is as big for me for
sure.
You know, it's but it's alsohappening all the time.
I'll have the TV on watching afootball game or something, or

(29:26):
my wife will have Wikid on, andI'll be on my phone watching a
YouTube video at the same time.
So it's like, where am I reallyspending my attention?
And if I'm an advertiser, wheredo I put that ad if I'm trying
to reach that that individual?
And it's just it's just sooverwhelming.
Do you ever get to that point ofsufficiency where you're
actually making that behavioralimpact that you intend to make?

(29:50):
Can you only do that in bigmoments, like you know, like a
Super Bowl commercial whereeverybody's paying attention,
everybody's locked in, thenthere's still probably
multitasking going on, but it'sstill most of the attention is
being paid to one place.
It's just it just seems likeit's more difficult, obviously
more difficult than ever toreally, to really drive behavior
change.
If you were a brand, let's say,you know, your brand, your new

(30:13):
brand, and you are trying to,you know, reach this fragmented,
distracted, you know, shopper,you know, what would be some
things you would try to considerto make the impact that you
intend to do with withadvertising?

SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
Yeah, that's a really good question.
Because I think all of the toolsthat we have as marketers, as
far as tactics and mediaplacement, they're so prolific
that they have re have left uswith a very overstimulated,
cognitively deficient,decision-fatigued shopper.
And their brains are really goodat deselecting out all of the

(30:50):
noise and coming up with someshortcut behaviors that aren't
necessarily good for business.
And and so I always when we haveconversations with brands about
this, most often brands want tocome in and say, okay, what is
the magical formula orcombination of tactics that is
going to um decrease my CAC andincrease my um my revenue?

(31:15):
And the the tools are the tools.
Every brand, every marketer hasaccess to the same tools.
And I always say if someone'sselling you the perfect formula,
they're lying and run as fast asyou can.
But where you have a realopportunity to connect with this
new consumer who is looking forless noise, they're looking for

(31:37):
more meaning in their life, moreconnection, more community.
They're looking ways to expresskind of the human condition is
so much less in the tactics, butit's really before that.
It's one knowing who youraudience is, you know.
And I'm not talking from ademographic side.
I'm talking from a heart andsoul side.

(31:59):
What are their values?
What do they care about?
What keeps them up at night?
Who are they?
Yes, yeah.
Yes, yes.
And and you want to and you wantto authentically connect the
heart and soul of your brand inareas and ways that they already
intrinsically care about.
And that's not a list offunctional benefits.

(32:21):
So it's understanding who youare as a brand at a higher
order.
If your brand had a soul, ifyour brand had a heart, if your
brand could shortcut why thisproduct was created, what
problem does it relieve for youraudience?

(32:42):
Then that is where the meaningand the connection happens with
your niche audience that caresabout the same thing.
So it becomes about hyperstrategy and focus on your
audience and who you are as abrand at your core.

(33:02):
Get that right, then pick themediums, of course, or the the
channels where your audience is,but pick the channels that
celebrate that message thatallows that message to live and
breathe.
And you're not competing then inthe same noisy mess for clips.

SPEAKER_02 (33:23):
But even if you are, you have a better chance to
connect, right?
So you can absolutely cast anet, you know, a wide net and
maybe catch a a couple of fish.
But if you're like more focusedand you're, you know, you're
fishing with a single line,you've got the right bait,
you're gonna get a much biggerfish, you know, typically,
right?
And so, you know, from thatstandpoint.
I've always one of the thingsI've I've always tried to

(33:45):
consider, and I've I'm a hugehype marketer.
I I love the hype, I getinvolved in the hype, I really,
I really get really engaged inin what's going on and the
excitement around things.
But I've always tried to thinkabout from time to time is like,
do you zig when other peoplezag?
Right.
And so if everybody's spendingall this money and time on one

(34:07):
channel, maybe your bestopportunity is to go to a
different channel, right?
And everybody's talking aboutyou know, social and connected
TV and all of these things.
Well, maybe direct mail is a isan opportunity for you, right?
And like I think you've got toopen your mind to look at the
white space as well.
You know, I agree with you froma brand and making sure your

(34:28):
your your message is connectingand has a soul and it's really
resonating.
It's hard to do that in lessthan a second's worth of time.
Like I remember watching myniece's friend on her phone
going through uh Instagram uhstories, and she's just beep,
beep, beep, beep, beep, beep,beep, tap, tap.
You know, and it's just likegoing through, and like you're

(34:49):
not, you don't have the time toreally make a lot of of
connection with somebody whenthey are just looking for
something that disrupts them,right?
And then you, if you catch them,you only have like a second or
two to get hold that attentionand maybe get your message
across or a part of the messageacross, right?

(35:11):
So it's it's crazy.
So look for those, I think justlike looking for those white
spaces, and I think also beingunified in your message, right?
Like ensuring that you're kindof thinking of things from a
storyline all the way through,you know, simulating what that
consumer experience should befrom point A to point Z and what

(35:32):
those potential touch pointsare.
Like the reality is nobody'sgoing through it from A to Z.
But even if you just thinkabout, okay, what you know, when
they get up in the morning, youknow, and they listen to, you
know, they listen to the radio,like, okay, what does the ad
sound like?
Does it does it link to maybe ifthey see the billboard on their
way to on their way to work andif they're surfing uh you know
at lunchtime and they see an ad,right?

(35:54):
Like you know, or they'rechecking something.

SPEAKER_01 (35:57):
I surf all the time.

SPEAKER_02 (35:58):
Well, sorry, okay, internet surf.
It sounds sounds so old, right?
The information is superhighway.
It's it's a real thing.
But you know, making sure thatthat story because you know,
repetition obviously leads tomemory, right?
And you know, one of the onecommercial that I hate the most,
but I appreciate it's you know,what it does is the Cars for

(36:21):
Kids commercial.

SPEAKER_01 (36:22):
I don't even know this commercial.

SPEAKER_02 (36:24):
It's it it's okay, tell us Cars for Kids.
So I appreciate what it does,but like it's the song is one of
those, yeah, it's basically onlike a nursery rhyme type song
and like Cars for Kids.
Anyway, and it it they play itover and over again, right?
And so I now I know Cars forKids regardless.
And and I actually try to skipaway.

(36:45):
And if I have any chance to skipaway, I try to skip away from
it.
But you know, it it obviouslyhad made an impact, right?
It's it's you know, I I don'tthink I've ever given a car to
cars for kids, I don't think.
But anyway, it's so that allbeing said, I think you know,
that that opportunity for youknow repetition and that
messaging to hit your audienceand have that unified

(37:08):
communication does have allowyou for that opportunity.
And look for not only digitalchannels, but also you know,
physical, you know, physicalopportunities as well, like out
of home.

SPEAKER_01 (37:19):
I would put a little bit more nuance on repetition.
I absolutely think cohesion isimportant, but I actually think
now, instead of maybe more kindof the seven, the special number
of seven frequency is themagical mark when people
remember you.
Um, it's more about creatingholistic brand worlds.
So, yes, you need a unifyingbrand platform.

(37:40):
And that gets back to knowingyour tribe, knowing the problem
you solve, knowing your heartand soul.
And that should show up.
But how that shows up in thespecific message points, I think
is more about creating amultidimensional lived
experience that may not comeacross in literal repetitive
words, but more in a brandexperience, in a holistic brand

(38:03):
experience.
And I think smaller disruptivebrands are doing a really good
job at this because they are soniche.
Their growth is at a muchsmaller scale.
They can do this in a way wherethey're not relying on
repetition, they're relying ondepth and texture.
Um, but it's built off of acohesive brand promise.

(38:24):
But how they bring that to lifeis like dialed up or dialed
down, depending on the touchpoint in in the message
conversation.

SPEAKER_02 (38:32):
Yeah, it's good storytelling.

SPEAKER_01 (38:33):
Yes, that's exactly right.
Yes, yes, there's plateaus,there's valleys, there's there's
there's highs, there's lows.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (38:41):
Yeah, it's awesome.
Awesome.
All right, well, let's move onto the next topic.
That was, I mean, we've probablytalked about that for probably a
whole nother another wholenother hour, but we're gonna
move on to the next topic.
And so secondhand shopping is onthe rise.
You know, not that it actuallywent away, but it, I mean, it
really It's getting a lot ofattention.
It is getting a ton of attentionand it's really in the in the

(39:02):
mainstream.
Um, it's not just thrift storeshopping anymore.
It's really, you know,intentional shopping.
I think value is a big part ofit.
Absolutely.
Um, I think sustainability playsa role um here as well.
And then I think there'sobviously some discovery element
of it, right?
And so, like if you go to astore, they have a selection.

(39:22):
You know, you go to a secondhandstore, you don't know really
what that selection is going tobe.
And there's there is someexcitement around the hunt.
Yeah, right.
You know, trying to find aspecific item or you don't know
what you're gonna what you'regoing to find, and then you find
it, and it's like this is the agreat, you know, perfect thing.
And and in some cases, it may beat a good value as well.

(39:43):
Um and so I think you know,around 70%, according to eBay,
70% of people plan to buy useditems this year.
Um, and then over 86%participate.
In resale in the last 12 months,so buying or selling.

(40:05):
And then even related to this,and you know, we're we're kind
of we're into the gift givingseason now, but secondhand
gifting is surging is surging.
Uh according to NASDAQ, uh 74%say it's more accepted, and 83%
are open to receiving usedgifts.

(40:25):
So that's really like that usedto be such a faux pas, right?
Like, you know, you you know,there's you know, re-gifting, if
you will, or you know, and uhobviously certain categories I
think would uh have you knowdifferent, you know, different
attitudes, like there aredifferent attitudes towards you
know, regifting um or orsecondhand um uh gifts as well.

(40:47):
Um, you know, some of the topcategories, uh electronics,
which makes sense, right?
iPads, phones, TVs, etc.
Books, you know, which it'sreally interesting.
Um, I was I was reading that,like in uh I was reading that
books have actually had made acomeback, um physical books.

(41:08):
Um, and so like there's there'syou know, there used to be the
Kindle Surge, right?
And now, and then you knowBarnes and Noble is doing like
really, really well as well,right?
And so, like, so I um books aredefinitely one that gets uh gets
regifted or or bought and soldon a resale market, fashion,
home decor, sporting goods, um,which you know, I think all of

(41:30):
these kind of make sense, yeah,right.
Very, very intuitive.
And then Facebook Marketplacenow has integrated eBay and
Poshmark listings into FacebookMarketplace.
Right.
Yeah.
So that allows super smart.
Yeah.
I mean, that's you know,extension of you know, those
platforms into the socialchannel, right?

SPEAKER_01 (41:50):
Well, and I really think that's probably how
Facebook has managed to continueto have their younger users is
through the marketplaceintegration.
Right.
And they're understanding thatthe Gen Z has migrated some of
the secondhand shopping umbeyond just the physical store
into the Poshmark, the Depop.
I think that that was wise ofme.
Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 (42:09):
And I think, you know, you and I both are cool
with with resale, right?
And buying secondhand, you know,um, or use product.
Um, you know, and I like it'sit's a great opportunity to one,
get something you may not beable to get somewhere else,
right?
Or you know, or it's sold outsomewhere, or or the the the

(42:32):
product is no longer available,you can get that on the
secondhand market.
Um, and also it's a bitsometimes it's an opportunity to
get something at a little lesscost.
That's right, right?

SPEAKER_00 (42:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (42:41):
Um or or pay more, you know, it depends.
But but um so you you actuallyare wearing something today in
honor of this conversation thatyou you bought um on in the
secondhand market.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat.

SPEAKER_01 (42:55):
Okay, yeah, I'm wearing, I think it's 80s.
I could not date it, it's fromthe 80s, but it's vintage Oscar
De Lorenta.
Oh, okay.
And I bought it at theSpringdale Goodwill for probably
less than$10.

SPEAKER_00 (43:08):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (43:08):
And you know what I noticed this morning?
It has a little bit of a stainon it, which normally I would
not wear the dress with thestain on it, but I feel like
it's okay because the piece hasa story behind it.
And when else am I gonna be ableto wear an Oscar de Lorenta
dress?
And I did a little digging,looked online to see see if I
could find the the dress.

(43:29):
I found one eBay posting, justone.
And I, you know, I searched forhours and hours and hours.
Yeah, of course you do.
One eBay posting with the samedress.
So, in theory, I could be one oftwo people wearing this dress
and talk about someone whoappreciates fashion and beauty
and design and that ability toexpress originality with in this

(43:53):
day and age where ourinfluencers and AI content all
look flat and the same.
That's a special gift that Ithink only the secondhand market
or extraordinarily amounts ofmoney is going to give you.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (44:08):
Yeah.
And and today I have on a pairof uh Travis Scott pair Jordan
ones.
Um and so these are uh basicallythese are$1,000 sneakers, uh
new.

SPEAKER_01 (44:22):
Well did you pay more than a thousand dollars?

SPEAKER_02 (44:24):
The original retail price was not a thousand
dollars, but they're verylimited.
So if you want to buy a newversion of this on the
secondhand market, uh a pair ofthese goes for a thousand over a
thousand dollars.
So um, but you know, I kept myeyes open and I watched you know
listings and I found a pair thatwas gently used for a much lower

(44:50):
price.
Love it.
Not 10, not ten dollars like yougot from you know for your
dress, but it was at a differentat a at a lower price, right?
And you know, I think somethinglike sneakers, you know, you
should be wearing your sneakers.
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (45:03):
And they're not art pieces.

SPEAKER_02 (45:06):
Well, you know, some are, right?
I think I think they are,honestly.
Uh but for the most part, likethe sneakers are meant to be
worn.
You know, you're gonna take ittake a new shoe out of a box and
you're gonna put it on your feetand you're gonna run out the
door anyway, the first firstminute.
As long for me, as long as thecondition uh is good, you know,
and the price is good, then youknow, we have a we you know, we

(45:28):
have a match.
But I think you know, especiallyin the in the sneaker market,
it's all about authenticity aswell, right?
And so you don't want to spend,you know, a significant amount
of money on something that didnot be authentic.
So it has to go through anauthentication process.
So you have these secondarymarkets, these secondary uh
platforms that you knowauthenticate the products.

(45:50):
eBay is one I've used quite abit.
Goat is the one I I bought thesethrough as as well.
So, you know, the the owner willyou know make the listing and go
and then you buy, and then itgoes to go.
Go will verify GOAT will verifyit and make sure that it is
authentic and then it'll ship iton to you.
So, you know, there's you knowthat that oper opportunity uh as

(46:11):
as well.
So, you know, provide in a wayit provides a service, ability
to get something that youprobably couldn't couldn't get
before.
There's no way I was going to beable to get these, you know, at
the time of release,unfortunately.
Um it's just very difficult withcertain types of shoes.
And but it you know, it doesprovide that that value.
Um, you know, when you you're abrand, like it's interesting,

(46:34):
right?
Because you know, the brand isobviously selling the product at
a retail price at the originalthe original sale.
But then the other the personwho has it then has an
opportunity to sell it again,right?
And in cases like these shoes,that obviously they went for way
higher than retail, and sothey're they're they're making a

(46:56):
a profit on it, I'm assuming.
Um and you know, did are thebrands really missing out on an
opportunity because like shouldthey be buying back these
products and then resellingthem?
Or I hope not.
Well, yeah, I know it's likethere's it's like where where
does a brand play in the secondin the second hand, the second

(47:18):
hand of market?

SPEAKER_01 (47:19):
Oh, it's a really good question.
I mean, I think I don't know theanswer to that, but I have some
maybe offshoot thoughts, but Ithink what was really
interesting about your TravisScott shoe story is one that
there was a story to tell andthat it helped extend your
identity and your commitment toputting a sneakerhead.

(47:40):
It acts as your badge of honor,that you're on the inside of
that kind of tribe orsubculture.
And it doesn't shortcut to mebecause I'm not in that
audience, but we still connectedover the time you invested, the
journey.
Again, it's creating thatmeaning and that moment to
connect.

(48:00):
And I I also found it veryinteresting that the
authentication process um itrelies on this level of kind of
trust and this added layer thatyou're kind of allowing a proxy
to make that um authentication,um, which we just kind of

(48:20):
shortcut when we're buying aproduct directly from the the
brand site.
So if I would to think about itthrough a strategic lens, I
don't know if literally theyneed to participate in the um
secondhand market.
And it's more about how do theymake their products and their
brand secondhand market worthy.

(48:42):
So again, it's can they createthose stories and those textures
and those moments to connect andbuild through that trust and
that more intangible value thatconnects with a community that
would facilitate that secondhandmarket because that's going to
give long-term brand equityvalue.

SPEAKER_02 (49:04):
Right.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (49:06):
So it's more of the relationship game than the
transactional revenue gain.

SPEAKER_02 (49:11):
Yeah.
I mean, it I mean, it stillcomes back to hype marketing in
a lot of ways, right?
And so how much hype will drivethe value and obviously supply
and demand, you know,restricting restricting that.
But all right, let's let's getoff of that for a second and
just really talk about thesustainable, the sustainability
side of things, becauseobviously that is a a big trend.
There's a lot of opportunity.

(49:32):
I feel like sometimes peoplejust there or there's just so
many clothing items out there,like you know, do we need all
these clothing items?
You know, why why why are storesstocking all of these clothes?
Don't we already have enoughclothes?
So, like, where do you where doyou see like the role that
sustainability plays in in thisuh in this trend?

SPEAKER_01 (49:56):
I absolutely think it's a reaction to the fast
fashion trend, specifically inyour apparel and how before they
used to have maybe two, maybethree seasons of cloth clothing
rollouts.
And now that hype cycle, I don'teven know from uh uh a Timu or
Zara and Amazon.

(50:17):
I mean, it's gotta be withindays, they are are are shifting
these trends and trying to reactto the flash in the pan hype
cycle of social media.
So I definitely think it is apushback to that
overconsumption.
But I also think it has a coupleof added layers to that.

(50:39):
Obviously, if I'm buyingsecondhand, that acts as a
shortcut that I either careabout my the value I'm getting,
the sustainability, orpotentially the originality.
It's that it's again thatreaction to that sameness
culture.
But either way, it acts as abadge of my moral, my values, my

(51:01):
belief system.

SPEAKER_02 (51:03):
How many secondhand gifts are you going to give this
season?

SPEAKER_01 (51:08):
Okay, those so this is interesting.
Probably none.
Oh, um, but here's why.
Because I am a busy work.

SPEAKER_02 (51:13):
Got down the whole story and one too.

SPEAKER_01 (51:15):
But I think I think there's an interesting idea
here.
I don't think I am the personwho's going to give this because
you know what it requires is alot of time.
And I think that's where thatgift holds so much value.
And I did see, I see people aregiving what they're calling like
these thrifted um like gift setswhere they're taking, like,

(51:36):
they're getting a book, they'regetting a costume piece of
jewelry, they're maybe getting alittle housewares, then they're
wrapping it up in a secondhandvintage scarfs, which silk
scarves are having a majormoment.
Okay.
I didn't um and and then givingthis one-of-a-kind gift, and
what that says to the receiverto me is like, wow, you really
know me, you really took thetime, you really care about me.

(51:57):
And wow, do you have style anddiscernment because you were
able to craft and curate andcollect these one of a kind
meanings?
So I don't have the time to dothat.
I love you, B V, but I just amnot gonna give you the time for
your Christmas gift this year.

SPEAKER_02 (52:13):
That's uh I know.
I know maybe, maybe next time.
Maybe I think for me, I think itdepends on what I'm hunting for,
right?
You know, if if I you know I'mlooking for, you know, uh a
piece of electronics that youknow my son might need.

SPEAKER_01 (52:27):
Yes, electronics as well.

SPEAKER_02 (52:28):
Then I might can I might I might consider that
there, you know, with um youknow, one one pair of sneakers
actually I've had my eye on isthere's a Wizard of Oz uh Nike
Donk Low that's there and Iwanted to get it for my
daughter.

SPEAKER_01 (52:42):
You might wait how girly is it?
Do I need to get this formyself?

SPEAKER_02 (52:45):
It shows it's the the poppy field all the time.
Okay, a little bit of red andflower.
Yeah.
So anyway, like I might get thatin, you know, because you can
get a little lower price, youknow, if it's in good condition,
you know, a lot of it isobviously comes down to
condition.
So I think it sort of again, itkind of comes back to the
categories that you wouldtypically think of that are
ideal for secondhand.
You know, I and I think youknow, as as long as you don't

(53:08):
portray it as being uh new, youknow what I mean?
Like that's that's the otherthing too.
Like, oh, I got you this nicenew gift, and they open it's out
clearly, you know, or clearlysecondhand.
You probably don't want to dothat.
Um, but I think if if if it'sgood condition, usable, hits the
spot of what they're lookingfor, I think I think it's a
great idea.

SPEAKER_01 (53:28):
And it feels uniquely them.
Yeah, cool.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (53:30):
All right.
Let's move on now to our thirdand uh third topic today, uh,
the analog comeback.

SPEAKER_01 (53:38):
So excited for this one.

SPEAKER_02 (53:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I again, you know, nostalgia isimportant to me.
And I think, you know, we we wetalked a lot about so much time
being spent on the digital sidethat you know some of these
analog experiences have um havebecome more enriching, I
believe, right?
And so um shoppers are findingcomfort in things that they feel

(54:05):
physical and tension andintentional, like uh records or
vinyl, film cameras, printbooks.
We were talking about that alittle bit ago, stationary, you
know, that like actually takingout and writing an actual note
in person.
I mean, you know that that's oneI struggle with a bit, but I I I

(54:25):
understand people who like to dothat.
Like all that stuff is surging,especially even with younger
shoppers, not that's right, notold folks like me necessarily,
but definitely younger shoppers.
You know, the analog experienceis you know gives them more
texture presence, right?
So again, not distracted withyou know 1800 things going on
all around.
You're you're you're focused,you're present, um, and it gives

(54:48):
you a chance to to to slow down.
Um it what's and then you throwAI into it, and now AI is like
we've got all of this contentbeing created via AI, and it's
just inundating people with allof these, all these, all this
digital content.
And so it's like taking thatstep back and like reclaiming

(55:09):
the physical world, reclaimingyour your mental state, you
know, potentially, you know.
Um, and so this it's so cool tosee some of these things that I
grew up with are now making thatthat that comeback.
Um, you know, even tapes andrecords, absolutely, even CDs
for those that are a little bitold, like some of that stuff uh

(55:29):
it has come back for sure.
Um, you know, vinyl continues toto sell big time, you know, over
44 million uh records were solduh last year.
Film cameras are up, you know,significantly as as well.
Print books are up 23% versusyou know 10 10 years ago.

(55:49):
Um, and so like all of thisstuff is really kind of coming
around.
And you know, is it going to isare we gonna go back in time and
do it all?
No, of course not.
But I think there is definitelya a group or a growing trend in
this area that I think peopleare kind of using as almost like
escapism to a certain degreefrom all of the other stuff

(56:12):
that's that's going on.
Um, and people are paying bigbucks for art as well, you know,
and especially Gen Z.

SPEAKER_00 (56:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (56:18):
Yeah, physical art.
Like, you know, just not toolong ago, I felt like we were
talking about these NFTs andpeople buying bored ape NFTs for
millions of dollars.
And now they're now that'spretty much gone away.
And those obviously don't don'tvalue as much as they used to,
but and now people are spending,you know, you know, you know,
hundreds of millions of dollarson a piece of on a piece of art.

(56:40):
So it like it's definitelycoming back.
Um you know, what do you what doyou really feel like are the
drivers of of this?
I know I've touched on a few,but sure if you had other
thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 (56:51):
Yeah.
I mean, I think you you'rereally you're circling what the
driver is.
I mean, first of all, we're theover the overdigital
consumption, the the constantAI, the massive time we're
spending on our screens, and youpartner that with kind of the
mental health crisis.
Yeah.
And so obviously, our obsessionas brands and retailers and

(57:13):
marketers of creating what uhwill be we consider a
frictionless, um, seamless,hyper convenience environment uh
is is maybe that's what theshoppers thought that they
wanted, but it's not necessarilydelivering the relief or the
intrinsic value that theythought.

(57:34):
And so now if it's notfrictionless, maybe it's
intentional friction that willgive you purpose and value.
And again, it goes back to thatnew consumer and what they want,
that new shopper, what theywant.
They want less noise, they wantmore meaning, and they want a

(57:56):
uniquely human experience andanalog options do that
beautifully.
Right.
And it allows you to refocusyour brain.
And I mean, you know, it's allabout brain rot.
So what if this is aboutunrotting your brain?
Unrotting.
Yes, I actually tried to get thedomain ww.unrotyourbrain.com, a

(58:17):
Portuguese company.
So if you wanna if you want tosell it to me, let me know.
I don't know what I'm gonna dowith it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (58:24):
Um you you hit on something there too that I
thought was really interestingis like that delayed
gratification component, right?
People are taking pictures withcameras, and you know, you're
not you're not gettingnecessarily that instant photo,
right, that on your phone thatyou see.
Now, some of them have acombination digital and and

(58:44):
film, but you have to wait forthat film to be developed, and
then you get the payoff, youknow, once that, once that film
is developed in into pictures.
You know, one brand I was justthinking about um that I think
does a really good job ofcombining like the digital and
the physical and and kind ofleans into the space a little
bit is Lego, right?

(59:06):
Lego does such a great job withtheir media and you know,
they're online, they're in a lotof different places.
But at the end of the day, like,you know, Legos and sitting down
and doing a Lego set, uh, youhave that leg gratification,
right?
Is as part of it.
It's the process, it's themindfulness, right?
I actually just started a Legoset in in my office to give

(59:27):
myself a little bit of a mentalbreak.
And so I've got Legos there, andI'm in a not no surprise to
anybody, it's a it's a Nike Legoset where it's you know somebody
dumping a ball with and has ashoe and all that.
So but like I just thinkingabout like stepping, you know,
kind of sliding away from mycomputer and just going through
the instructions with leg withthe Legos to kind of build this

(59:50):
thing.
And I'm not building it all inone day, right?
It's that delayed gratification.
There's going to be thatappreciation of what I what I've
done, what I've completed.
So you've got a sense ofaccomplishment.
Right at the at the end.
And so I think Lego really, if Iif I'm just thinking of a brand
off the top of my head that Ididn't really think about, you
know, planning for this, was youknow, Legos really seems to do
it do a good job.

(01:00:11):
And it also leans a little bitinto this nostalgia side.
Like Lego has been around forfor years.
Like I've had, you know, I hadLegos when I was a kid, and that
was that was a little while ago.
And so I just I think Legoreally does a great job.
Are there any other like brandsor you know, that you think do
do a good job of that?

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:30):
Well, um, I think Lego is a great example.
And actually, I I will share anexperience.
I remember buying a Lego set formy son who's now 10 years old,
and this was maybe a coupleyears ago.
And I remember sitting down withhim and building the Lego set,
but the instructions were on anapp or on the screen or on a
website.
I actually as a mother did notlike that because I'm always

(01:00:50):
trying to come up with ways thatare mine was in a book.
Yes.
And now whether or not it wasthat particular variation, but
now everything comes with a bookor a digital uh uh um
instruction opportunity.
And and so I do love that theyare giving you these options and
they're not forcing me in onemean because as a parent who is

(01:01:14):
trying to manage obsessively mymy son's screen time and making
sure he doesn't rot his brain, Ireally like having again those
tangible tactical moments thatdon't involve a screen at all.
So a brand actually it's more ofa product and it's fascinating
to me, but it is a brand all atonce that I think is is doing a

(01:01:36):
really good job, and I am theabsolute target market.
It have you heard of tin can?

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:41):
No, I don't think I have.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:42):
Okay, well, it is a corded phone for kids.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:48):
A corded, oh, okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:50):
And it looks like a modern tin can.
It it has the twirly cord, thebranding is so nostalgic but
modern.
It just really speaks to me askind of uh a kid of of the 80s
and 90s and those kind ofmoments of being able to speak
with my friends on the phone.
What's great for me is as aparent, I am trying to hold off

(01:02:12):
on getting him a sm asmartphone, hold off on giving
him kind of unfettered access tothe internet, but I also want to
facilitate connections with hisfriends.
And and so the tin can is givingme this option to go analog, old
school, and also it'sencouraging community, like you
can buy multiple ones.

(01:02:33):
But here's the kicker.
I mean, it looks like a phoneyou and I would have had as a
kid, and it would have cost evenat that time, maybe 15 bucks at
Walmart, and they are selling itfor$75, and it is sold out until
February.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:46):
Wow.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:47):
So it is obviously from a functional and an
emotional meeting this analogdesire or problem that we as
parents I am fighting everysingle day.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, that's I mean, it'sa it's a great way to you know
bring something like that thatsolves some a problem that I'm
sure a lot of parents are aredealing with.
And how when is the right timeto give your child a way to
communicate, you know, with withthe with the outside world.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:18):
And I will say, so it acts as a landline, but you
don't have to buy a telephoneline.
It works still through throughyour internet, and you don't
have to buy a plan if you cancon if you can recruit other
friends with a tin can.
So it acts as like a tin can.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:35):
Yeah, it's its own referral program.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:37):
Yes, exactly.
So you can speak to fellow tincanners for free.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:40):
Awesome.
Awesome.
Well, I think, I mean, I think,you know, this this is an
amazing trend.
I think it's definitely needed.
I think like the mental weightthat so many people carry
through a lot of the the uhinformation that they are
receiving on an ongoing basis.
It's like having a way to breakaway, you know, get back to to
analog is definitely a trendthat I think is um one that

(01:04:04):
should hopefully continue.
And I like, you know, yeah, youknow, I'm I'm obviously really
excited about leaning intomyself.

SPEAKER_01 (01:04:10):
I am too, and I think it actually holds some
significant kind of weight forthe future generations.
I think, you know, maybe call ittime and knowledge were maybe
kind of the the currency of theclass system.
Um now that information hascompletely been democratized.
Um, our ability to use ourbrains and discern and be

(01:04:34):
critical thinkers will be thekind of status of the elite,
intellectually elite.
Oh, wow moving forward.
I said it here first.
Yes.
So I think the only way to dothat is through letting your
brain breathe through analogexperiences.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:50):
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, and you actually, soyou mentioned this earlier, like
how like there's been like athread of the topics today.
And I think there there reallyis because it I think it kind of
paints that picture of what thethe consumer, consumer looks
like today.
You know, they'reoverstimulated, they want, but
they want authenticity, theywant, you know, they want um,

(01:05:12):
you know, the ability to kind ofdisconnect at the same time.
And you know, it's uh it's it'san interesting world we live in
today and a society that we livein today that I think is really
you know you know changing howwe how we behave.
So um appreciate you talkingthrough those topics with us.
All right, Aaron, that was uh agreat run through of our of our

(01:05:34):
big topics.
Um and so we're as we get nearthe end of of today's podcast,
um let play play a little game,you know, have a have a little
wrap-up.
And so um wanted to talk throughany campaigns um that you've
seen out there that you are youreally have your eye on that's
that right now.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:54):
Yeah, yeah, it's much less of a campaign and and
more in these smaller brandsthat I tend to to work with and
more how they come forward andalive in in their world.
And if you're familiar with goodgirl snacks or hot girl pickles,
they've made pickles umextremely cool for Gen Z, or
actually Gen Z loves pickles,and they took an opportunity to
make a product that connectsuniquely with them.

(01:06:16):
Gen Z creators, two friends, andthey've actually documented
their entire experience onsocial media, the highs and the
lows.

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:24):
Storytelling?
Storytelling.
Oh, wow.
Stories amazing that's gone backto stories.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:28):
And they're creating these immersive brand worlds
with these darling brandcharacters that shortcut into
emotive experiences.
But I think that they're reallytaking their audience on a
journey.
They literally just launched inWhole Foods and they had a whole
TikTok video on all of all thethings that went wrong.

(01:06:50):
So they shared, they boughttheir first um billboard and it
was covered by a bush.
They used the wrong tape in thePR packages.
It was just so authentic.
And before that, they said thatthey had zero dollars in paid
media.
So it shows you that these brandworlds are cost-saving but also

(01:07:11):
meaningful to the the rightconsumer that they connect with.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:15):
Wait, what was the name of the brand?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:16):
Well, the brand is good girl snacks, but what they
it's the hot girl pickles.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:20):
Hot girl pickles and the spicy pickles.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:23):
They have different variations.
Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:25):
Awesome.
Well, it's good to getintroduced to a new brand and
definitely we'll we'll checkthat out.
Well, that's a wrap for thisepisode of Retail Media Vibes.
I want to thank our guest, uhErin Campbell.
Uh thanks for thanks for comingin and uh chatting it up with us
today.
Is there anything that you wouldlike to plug uh before before we

(01:07:47):
wrap up today?

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:48):
Sure.
I mean, I'm in the process rightnow of building an advisory uh
consulting firm for femalefounders.
Uh we're we're kind of not quiteready um to fully uh have a
coming out party, but I wouldencourage if there are female
founders out there, if there arepeople who support female
founders in our NorthwestArkansas area, reach out to me

(01:08:08):
on LinkedIn.
I'd love to just connect withthe community that's really
looking to support um thesefounders in this kind of really
tough journey that that they'reabout to uh embark on.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:20):
Awesome.
Yeah, that sounds great.
Um I I try to ask my guests,would you come back on the show
at a later date?
Would you come back?

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:29):
I would, but only if you give me a thrifted care
package as a supporting.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:35):
Okay, we're up in the game now.
Now, if I do that for you, Ihave to do it for everybody
else.
Just for me.
It's so blow up the budget.
All right.
Well, um, so if you enjoyedtoday's episode, make sure that
you like, uh, subscribe,comment.
If you have a question or acomment, you can send those to
retailmedia vibes at gmail.com.
Thanks for listening, and asalways, I will do better next

(01:08:55):
time.
Be out.