September 27, 2024 • 13 mins
In this episode of Rollin' with the Dolans, Patrick and Tamekia are joined by special guest Tara Allen, an experienced educator specializing in special education and autism. Tara shares insights from her 10+ years of experience, including the challenges and rewards of teaching children with autism. She discusses the importance of treating students as individuals first, overcoming learned behaviors, and the essential role parents play in supporting their child's education. This episode highlights the need for compassion, patience, and effective communication in the classroom.
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#TeachingAutism
#BlendedFamilies
#ParentingTips
#RollinWithTheDolans
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Line (USB AUDIO CODEC) (00:01):
Welcome to Rollin with the Dolans.
I'm Patrick Dolan.
And I'm Tameka Dolan.
Our podcast focuses on the joysand challenges of blending
families, our interracialmarriage, parents and children
of multiple ages, and thejourney of entrepreneurship.
We share our daily lifeexperiences with a positive but
real perspective.
(00:24):
Today's topic is focused oneducating kids with autism, and
we have a special guest today.
Would you like to do theintroduction?
Welcome you can say who she isand then I'll read her bio.
All right.
We have with us today, TaraAllen.
Okay, so Tara.
Hey.
Hey.
So Tara and I have been friendssince high school.
(00:45):
So how many years is that?
50.
Listen, okay.
Not 50.
But I really can't count.
How many is that, Tara?
Let's try over 30.
Okay.
All right.
so I'm going to read Tara's bio.
She's been an educator for over10 years, specializing in
special education across allgrade levels.
(01:07):
She recently completed amaster's and specialist degree
and a certification ineducational leadership.
Currently, she is teachingautistic children, which are
from kindergarten to secondgrade.
Did I say all that right?
That sounds like a lot.
Yes.
All right.
Okay.
We got some questions.
(01:27):
You want to start, Mr.
Doehler?
Sure.
I'll start with a kind of basicone.
Just trying to understand whatinspired you to work with
children with autism?
Because I have taught specialeducation for so many years,
I've never had a class with allautistic children.
I did back in 2010 or 11.
(01:52):
I taught a self containedclassroom, but I only had two
autistic students in there andthat was so long ago.
And because I completed mycertification in Ed Leadership,
it gave me, it made me want todo education at a different
level of special education.
So that was my motivation forthat, just to learn teach,
(02:15):
learning, teaching from adifferent perspective.
Okay, so since we talked aboutAlmost every day.
I know about your transitionfrom high school to elementary
school.
So how was that transition?
The transition wasn't hardbecause I went from elementary
to high school and now i'm backto elementary which I Enjoy it a
(02:36):
lot more because the kids aremore engaged and it's easier to
get them to do what you needthem to do In the time frame
that you have What are some ofthe challenges that you have,
teaching kids with autism?
The challenges that I haveteaching children with autism is
getting out of the mindset thatthey have a disability and treat
(02:59):
them like normal children to getthem to learn the way that the
state and the district want themto learn.
They want them to learn asnormal children.
So I went in.
The mindset of, I'm not going tolook at them as they have
autism, I'm going to look atthem like they are students and
teach them what they need tolearn to move them to the next
level.
And then the big challenge forme was undoing bad behaviors
(03:22):
that they have learned over theyears.
What I mean by that is, whenthey come to you and say, open
this for me, now I'm teachingthem, can you open this for me,
please?
Undoing all those bad habits andthen when they can't have what
they want, they yell and scream.
We're undoing a lot of that inmy classroom.
Do you feel like some of thosebehaviors are mostly learned at
(03:44):
home or at school?
I want to say both because ifit's not taken care of at home
and then you get these teachers,some of us, I'm not going to say
all teachers, and I'm not goingto point fingers, but some of us
will get these kids in ourclassrooms and when we give in
to those behaviors like we wouldif we were at home, and so the
challenging part is undoing allof that and having them know the
(04:07):
difference between home andschool, and I feel like because
they are younger starting atkindergarten, Having them to
understand that early on by thetime they get to the 3rd grade,
4th grade, 5th grade, theyalready have that mindset.
This is school and this is howwe act at school versus falling
(04:28):
all out at home, falling all outat the grocery store because
they can't have their way.
Okay, that makes sense because,we're a big believer in it takes
a village to raise kids.
So with that being said, how doyou involve parents and
caregivers in supporting theirchildren's education and social
(04:48):
development?
What I did at the beginning ofthis school year is I sent out a
parent questionnaire and I askedthe parents, I think it was like
25 questions.
Things that their studentscannot answer on their own.
Especially, I have two childrenthat are non verbal.
How are they whenever they'reangry?
How are they whenever they'rehappy?
How are they whenever they'rehungry?
(05:09):
How are they whenever they needto go to the bathroom?
They can't articulate that forme, so I rely on the parents to
give me that information.
Also, what makes your kid happy?
What is something that they liketo do, that they enjoy doing,
and something that they willwork for?
One thing I did learn aboutautistic children is that if you
give them an incentive,something that they want to do,
(05:30):
They will work towards that.
And then another thing that Ilearned about them, over the
course of the month that we'vebeen in school is that they will
work for a task and theirextension, their attention span
is very short.
So you'll have them do a taskand then they go do a desired
task.
And then you have them comeback, do something different.
(05:51):
And then they go back to adesired task.
So asking the parents daily.
Even in the mornings, I haveasked parents, How were they
last night?
How are they this morning?
If they're having a roughmorning, that determines how we
receive them in the morning.
If they're having a goodmorning, that also determines
how we receive them in themorning.
Having that communication withthe parents daily is key in an
(06:12):
autistic classroom.
So you mentioned the nonverbal,how do you deal with them on a
daily basis?
How do you communicate withthem?
Because they're so young and theparents haven't introduced them
to what is called acommunication board So what I'm
doing for them is introducingthem to the communication board
So what a communication board isit'll have one word I want or to
(06:36):
say more or whatever Just teachthem to point to the things that
they want.
But because I have four childrenYou of my own, you pick up on
their mannerisms.
You pick up on what they say,what they point, they come and
get you.
It's the same thing at home whenyou're teaching your own
children, how to communicate.
So that's what I'm working withthem on in the classroom.
And it's going to take a minuteto get them to understand how to
(06:58):
use the communication boardbecause it's overwhelming.
And so it doesn't haveeverything on it that you use on
a daily basis.
So figuring that out and thentrying to figure out what to add
to it.
And then refer back to thecommunication board every time
that you communicate with them.
I think I need to learn moreabout this communication board.
See if we can use it ourselves.
(07:18):
Laughter.
Wait, so an abort will.
What would you want to say onthe communication board?
What would you say?
I think it's more for you to beable to say Mr.
Dolan, what are you supposed tobe doing today?
(07:41):
Okay, that makes sense.
All right.
So like I said, again, we talk alot and at the end of the day,
I'm like, okay, how was yourday?
And most days are challenging,but you always find the good and
updated to me seems like a lot.
Like I, would you be able to doher job, Mr.
(08:03):
Dolan?
No.
That was a dry no.
Okay can you share an example ofa breakthrough moment or
significant progress you've seenin a student?
Now be, let's be mindful, soschool has only been in for how
many months?
One, actually.
Oh, only one?
(08:23):
You might not have seen asignificant breakthrough, which
I know you'll see thosethroughout the year, but maybe
an example of something smallwhere you've seen that child go
from the parent or the otherteachers assuming that they
can't do a certain thing, andwithin a month, you've made a
difference.
Can you give us an example ofthat?
I do have one student that comesto mind and I love him dearly.
(08:44):
He's so sweet.
But His issue is he's theyoungest in his family and he's
not used to hearing the word nohe's not used to People saying
if you don't do this, thenyou're not gonna be able to do
this So he's used to if he yelland scream and cry he gets what
he wants we've gone from August1st to September 30th.
(09:07):
So it's almost like Month almosttwo months of school now he's
not yelling and screaming asmuch as he did at the beginning
of the year yelling screamingkicking and trying to elope Now
what he's doing is he will takea deep breath and say Okay, or
yes, ma'am.
And then once he stopped yellingand screaming sometimes at the
(09:30):
beginning, then I would ask him,did you get what you want?
And he would say no, and then Iwould communicate to him, then
that's not working in here.
So what can you do?
To show that this is somethingthat you really want without the
yelling and screaming So I amteaching him instead of yelling
scream to communicate.
So now that's what he's doing.
He's using his words Can I haveI would like please and so
(09:55):
within the time frame that Ihave been with them.
That is huge, right?
Mr.
Dole.
Yeah, definitely A little bitharder we're sharing one mic
today our pauses there.
There's obviously a lot more wecan talk about.
But, for the sake of today'ssegment, I just want to have
one, final, or at least we mayhave a little bit of follow up,
(10:16):
but what advice would you giveother educators that are
beginning to work with autisticchildren?
What have you learned that youthink that, is important for
anybody who's beginning theirnew journey?
Thank you.
One thing I would want neweducators and educators alike is
that children are children, nomatter if they are EBD, no
matter if they're gifted, nomatter if they are autistic.
(10:39):
It doesn't matter if they havean IEP 504, the labels are like
ADD.
Children are children and theywant to know that there are
boundaries.
They want to be within thatboundary.
Whether they are autistic ornot, what I have noticed is I
have given my studentsboundaries, and they are
adhering to those boundaries,and so they are growing, and I
thought at the beginning of theyear, can I take practical
(11:01):
school?
strategies and use them in anautistic classroom.
Is there a difference?
And my answer is yes, becauseI'm seeing the difference in my
classroom.
So I would tell a new teacher,don't go in a classroom with the
mindset that they are autistic,go in a classroom with the
mindset that is a child first,and then we need to teach the
child, not the autism.
So then that way.
(11:22):
they won't continue to havethese learned behaviors that we
don't want them to have.
Then we're getting them to learnmore on an educational level
than more on a life skill level.
However, life skills are needed.
But if we have that mindset thatthey are children and children
are going to be children, sowhat is autism?
That's the mindset that I hadthis year going into my
classroom.
(11:49):
I think it's a very impressiveand I think it's a really good
way of looking at it to makesure that, you really do
understand who you're dealingwith and just focus on them as a
child.
It makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, I just hope that othereducators that are working with
kids with autism have the sametype of passion that Tara has,
right?
Because I know we had a childwith autism we're literally
(12:11):
handing them over to someone wewould want them to have the best
experience.
Yeah, definitely.
I think that it shows that youteach more out of passion than
it being a job.
And I think that's important forall educators, any type is teach
out of passion.
And I think that's Key andmaking a positive influence on
these kids lives Yeah, so thankyou Tom for spending some time
(12:34):
with us and educating us more onyour profession and Like mr.
Dolan said thank you forteaching out of passion.
I hope that someone who isthinking about Doing that job
will Be more like you, right?
Absolutely.
(12:55):
All right.
We're going to wrap this up,ready to wrap up.
All right.
Thanks for joining us today.
Make sure you follow us, likeus, subscribe, things like that.
Join us for the next one andwe'll look forward to, having
you involved and listening andpotentially participating in the
future.
All right.
(13:15):
So I hope you have a wonderfulday.
Have an absolutely beautifulday.
Have a magnificent, gloriousday.
You can't top that one.
A magical week.
Magical.
Alright, until next time, bye.
(13:36):
Bye bye.
Bye.
Welcome to Rollin with the Dolans.
I'm Patrick Dolan.
And I'm Tameka Dolan.
Our podcast focuses on the joysand challenges of blending
families, our interracialmarriage, parents and children
of multiple ages, and thejourney of entrepreneurship.
We share our daily lifeexperiences with a positive but
real perspective.
(00:24):
Today's topic is focused oneducating kids with autism, and
we have a special guest today.
Would you like to do theintroduction?
Welcome you can say who she isand then I'll read her bio.
All right.
We have with us today, TaraAllen.
Okay, so Tara.
Hey.
Hey.
So Tara and I have been friendssince high school.
(00:45):
So how many years is that?
50.
Listen, okay.
Not 50.
But I really can't count.
How many is that, Tara?
Let's try over 30.
Okay.
All right.
so I'm going to read Tara's bio.
She's been an educator for over10 years, specializing in
special education across allgrade levels.
(01:07):
She recently completed amaster's and specialist degree
and a certification ineducational leadership.
Currently, she is teachingautistic children, which are
from kindergarten to secondgrade.
Did I say all that right?
That sounds like a lot.
Yes.
All right.
Okay.
We got some questions.
(01:27):
You want to start, Mr.
Doehler?
Sure.
I'll start with a kind of basicone.
Just trying to understand whatinspired you to work with
children with autism?
Because I have taught specialeducation for so many years,
I've never had a class with allautistic children.
I did back in 2010 or 11.
(01:52):
I taught a self containedclassroom, but I only had two
autistic students in there andthat was so long ago.
And because I completed mycertification in Ed Leadership,
it gave me, it made me want todo education at a different
level of special education.
So that was my motivation forthat, just to learn teach,
(02:15):
learning, teaching from adifferent perspective.
Okay, so since we talked aboutAlmost every day.
I know about your transitionfrom high school to elementary
school.
So how was that transition?
The transition wasn't hardbecause I went from elementary
to high school and now i'm backto elementary which I Enjoy it a
(02:36):
lot more because the kids aremore engaged and it's easier to
get them to do what you needthem to do In the time frame
that you have What are some ofthe challenges that you have,
teaching kids with autism?
The challenges that I haveteaching children with autism is
getting out of the mindset thatthey have a disability and treat
(02:59):
them like normal children to getthem to learn the way that the
state and the district want themto learn.
They want them to learn asnormal children.
So I went in.
The mindset of, I'm not going tolook at them as they have
autism, I'm going to look atthem like they are students and
teach them what they need tolearn to move them to the next
level.
And then the big challenge forme was undoing bad behaviors
(03:22):
that they have learned over theyears.
What I mean by that is, whenthey come to you and say, open
this for me, now I'm teachingthem, can you open this for me,
please?
Undoing all those bad habits andthen when they can't have what
they want, they yell and scream.
We're undoing a lot of that inmy classroom.
Do you feel like some of thosebehaviors are mostly learned at
(03:44):
home or at school?
I want to say both because ifit's not taken care of at home
and then you get these teachers,some of us, I'm not going to say
all teachers, and I'm not goingto point fingers, but some of us
will get these kids in ourclassrooms and when we give in
to those behaviors like we wouldif we were at home, and so the
challenging part is undoing allof that and having them know the
(04:07):
difference between home andschool, and I feel like because
they are younger starting atkindergarten, Having them to
understand that early on by thetime they get to the 3rd grade,
4th grade, 5th grade, theyalready have that mindset.
This is school and this is howwe act at school versus falling
(04:28):
all out at home, falling all outat the grocery store because
they can't have their way.
Okay, that makes sense because,we're a big believer in it takes
a village to raise kids.
So with that being said, how doyou involve parents and
caregivers in supporting theirchildren's education and social
(04:48):
development?
What I did at the beginning ofthis school year is I sent out a
parent questionnaire and I askedthe parents, I think it was like
25 questions.
Things that their studentscannot answer on their own.
Especially, I have two childrenthat are non verbal.
How are they whenever they'reangry?
How are they whenever they'rehappy?
How are they whenever they'rehungry?
(05:09):
How are they whenever they needto go to the bathroom?
They can't articulate that forme, so I rely on the parents to
give me that information.
Also, what makes your kid happy?
What is something that they liketo do, that they enjoy doing,
and something that they willwork for?
One thing I did learn aboutautistic children is that if you
give them an incentive,something that they want to do,
(05:30):
They will work towards that.
And then another thing that Ilearned about them, over the
course of the month that we'vebeen in school is that they will
work for a task and theirextension, their attention span
is very short.
So you'll have them do a taskand then they go do a desired
task.
And then you have them comeback, do something different.
(05:51):
And then they go back to adesired task.
So asking the parents daily.
Even in the mornings, I haveasked parents, How were they
last night?
How are they this morning?
If they're having a roughmorning, that determines how we
receive them in the morning.
If they're having a goodmorning, that also determines
how we receive them in themorning.
Having that communication withthe parents daily is key in an
(06:12):
autistic classroom.
So you mentioned the nonverbal,how do you deal with them on a
daily basis?
How do you communicate withthem?
Because they're so young and theparents haven't introduced them
to what is called acommunication board So what I'm
doing for them is introducingthem to the communication board
So what a communication board isit'll have one word I want or to
(06:36):
say more or whatever Just teachthem to point to the things that
they want.
But because I have four childrenYou of my own, you pick up on
their mannerisms.
You pick up on what they say,what they point, they come and
get you.
It's the same thing at home whenyou're teaching your own
children, how to communicate.
So that's what I'm working withthem on in the classroom.
And it's going to take a minuteto get them to understand how to
(06:58):
use the communication boardbecause it's overwhelming.
And so it doesn't haveeverything on it that you use on
a daily basis.
So figuring that out and thentrying to figure out what to add
to it.
And then refer back to thecommunication board every time
that you communicate with them.
I think I need to learn moreabout this communication board.
See if we can use it ourselves.
(07:18):
Laughter.
Wait, so an abort will.
What would you want to say onthe communication board?
What would you say?
I think it's more for you to beable to say Mr.
Dolan, what are you supposed tobe doing today?
(07:41):
Okay, that makes sense.
All right.
So like I said, again, we talk alot and at the end of the day,
I'm like, okay, how was yourday?
And most days are challenging,but you always find the good and
updated to me seems like a lot.
Like I, would you be able to doher job, Mr.
(08:03):
Dolan?
No.
That was a dry no.
Okay can you share an example ofa breakthrough moment or
significant progress you've seenin a student?
Now be, let's be mindful, soschool has only been in for how
many months?
One, actually.
Oh, only one?
(08:23):
You might not have seen asignificant breakthrough, which
I know you'll see thosethroughout the year, but maybe
an example of something smallwhere you've seen that child go
from the parent or the otherteachers assuming that they
can't do a certain thing, andwithin a month, you've made a
difference.
Can you give us an example ofthat?
I do have one student that comesto mind and I love him dearly.
(08:44):
He's so sweet.
But His issue is he's theyoungest in his family and he's
not used to hearing the word nohe's not used to People saying
if you don't do this, thenyou're not gonna be able to do
this So he's used to if he yelland scream and cry he gets what
he wants we've gone from August1st to September 30th.
(09:07):
So it's almost like Month almosttwo months of school now he's
not yelling and screaming asmuch as he did at the beginning
of the year yelling screamingkicking and trying to elope Now
what he's doing is he will takea deep breath and say Okay, or
yes, ma'am.
And then once he stopped yellingand screaming sometimes at the
(09:30):
beginning, then I would ask him,did you get what you want?
And he would say no, and then Iwould communicate to him, then
that's not working in here.
So what can you do?
To show that this is somethingthat you really want without the
yelling and screaming So I amteaching him instead of yelling
scream to communicate.
So now that's what he's doing.
He's using his words Can I haveI would like please and so
(09:55):
within the time frame that Ihave been with them.
That is huge, right?
Mr.
Dole.
Yeah, definitely A little bitharder we're sharing one mic
today our pauses there.
There's obviously a lot more wecan talk about.
But, for the sake of today'ssegment, I just want to have
one, final, or at least we mayhave a little bit of follow up,
(10:16):
but what advice would you giveother educators that are
beginning to work with autisticchildren?
What have you learned that youthink that, is important for
anybody who's beginning theirnew journey?
Thank you.
One thing I would want neweducators and educators alike is
that children are children, nomatter if they are EBD, no
matter if they're gifted, nomatter if they are autistic.
(10:39):
It doesn't matter if they havean IEP 504, the labels are like
ADD.
Children are children and theywant to know that there are
boundaries.
They want to be within thatboundary.
Whether they are autistic ornot, what I have noticed is I
have given my studentsboundaries, and they are
adhering to those boundaries,and so they are growing, and I
thought at the beginning of theyear, can I take practical
(11:01):
school?
strategies and use them in anautistic classroom.
Is there a difference?
And my answer is yes, becauseI'm seeing the difference in my
classroom.
So I would tell a new teacher,don't go in a classroom with the
mindset that they are autistic,go in a classroom with the
mindset that is a child first,and then we need to teach the
child, not the autism.
So then that way.
(11:22):
they won't continue to havethese learned behaviors that we
don't want them to have.
Then we're getting them to learnmore on an educational level
than more on a life skill level.
However, life skills are needed.
But if we have that mindset thatthey are children and children
are going to be children, sowhat is autism?
That's the mindset that I hadthis year going into my
classroom.
(11:49):
I think it's a very impressiveand I think it's a really good
way of looking at it to makesure that, you really do
understand who you're dealingwith and just focus on them as a
child.
It makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, I just hope that othereducators that are working with
kids with autism have the sametype of passion that Tara has,
right?
Because I know we had a childwith autism we're literally
(12:11):
handing them over to someone wewould want them to have the best
experience.
Yeah, definitely.
I think that it shows that youteach more out of passion than
it being a job.
And I think that's important forall educators, any type is teach
out of passion.
And I think that's Key andmaking a positive influence on
these kids lives Yeah, so thankyou Tom for spending some time
(12:34):
with us and educating us more onyour profession and Like mr.
Dolan said thank you forteaching out of passion.
I hope that someone who isthinking about Doing that job
will Be more like you, right?
Absolutely.
(12:55):
All right.
We're going to wrap this up,ready to wrap up.
All right.
Thanks for joining us today.
Make sure you follow us, likeus, subscribe, things like that.
Join us for the next one andwe'll look forward to, having
you involved and listening andpotentially participating in the
future.
All right.
(13:15):
So I hope you have a wonderfulday.
Have an absolutely beautifulday.
Have a magnificent, gloriousday.
You can't top that one.
A magical week.
Magical.
Alright, until next time, bye.
(13:36):
Bye bye.
Bye.
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