April 7, 2026 • 31 mins
Training for a half marathon isn’t just about ticking boxes — and in this episode, we get real about what it actually looks like mid-block.
Sarah is deep in her build towards the HBF Run for a Reason Half Marathon, and we break down how training is reallyfeeling right now — the highs, the fatigue, the doubt, and the small wins that matter.
We talk about:
- What surprises people in a training block
- The reality of balancing life and running
- Sessions that build confidence (and the ones that humble you)
- The mental side of training — and how to work through it
- Why consistency always beats perfection
If you’re currently training for HBF — or any race — this episode will remind you that you’re not alone in how it feels.
This is the middle of the block. This is where the work happens.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Rochelle.
And this is my co-host Sarah.
And together we areRunversation, a conversational
paced podcast for youreasy-paced running journey.
And we're here to chat about allthings running, community, and
everything in between.
SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
Hello, Sarah.
Hello, Rochelle.
And hello to listeners.
Before we get into today'sepisode, Sarah, what did you see
on your run or in the gym thisweek?
SPEAKER_01 (00:24):
Two days ago, when we did a session at Burzwood,
there was a man with his bikeand he had in the back a little
basket.
He put his dog there.
And I've been doing a little bitof riding as a bit of
cross-training.
I thought, I wonder if I had toput my sausage dog in there.
But then I also was like.
(00:47):
I mean, only just started ridingagain.
I was like, I don't know if Itrust myself not to.
What if you have an accident orsomething and your dog's then
like flipped down?
They're not like secured downinto it.
And then it made me think, like,would I actually feel
comfortable doing that?
I guess riding lazily around theriver, not very far, might be
okay.
But yeah, it just made me think,would I Was it a basket or a
(01:08):
trolley?
No, it was a basket.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
The dog was stuck in the basket.
You could get like one of thosekid trolleys and you could put
them in the trolley and youcould like put the little seat
belts on them.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
If you could clip them in that but then like then
it would still be bad though ifyou had a, you know, and your
bike falls down and the dogstuck because it jumps with it.
Yeah.
And then is stuck in the basketand can't get out.
I thought, oh, I don't know.
Risk there, but it would bepretty cool.
But then I don't trust my dog tonot sort of jump out like
(01:38):
they've just jumped down now andgo and chase something.
Yeah.
So it would be cute though.
It would be cute sausage dogs.
Yeah.
Then the other issue is spittingtwo of them in it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
I actually saw yesterday.
I don't know where we were.
We were like somewhere on thetrail and there was two
long-haired sausage dogs.
And I remember saying to whoeverwas around at the time, Sarah
would just froth at these rightnow.
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
It would tempt me to stop my run um and have yeah and
have a full actually.
SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
I think it was after our run and we went to go get a
coffee.
Oh, it was after your run,you're definitely stuck.
Yeah, it was after, but we gotstitched up.
Christian stitched us up becausethe coffee shop wasn't open.
So we did like a walk to thecoffee shop after our long run.
Then we had to turn around andcome back and it was on the way
back.
I was like, Sarah would frothover there.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
I would.
I just wouldn't have thrust thehills that Christian took you
on.
No, I've seen of a hue and myversion of a hue was two very
different things, is what Ifound.
So you just been a huge was amountain.
I don't agree on that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
Anything else that you saw, Rochelle?
Yes.
So I've recently been in Bali.
So I've done a couple of runsoutside over there.
But this time that it was thehumidity was quite thick, so I
didn't get out too often.
I did it a lot more on thetreadmill.
But when I was on one of mymorning runs, heading to our
accommodation from the airport,because I run out and back to
the airport, I could see now Ithink you pronounce it gang,
(03:02):
which means volcano.
Oh, that's a distance.
So that was really cool becausethere was like a little bit of
cloud, but not enough tocompletely cover it.
And I could just see the outlineand the shape of this volcano in
the distance.
So that was if you take away thehumidity, it would be a very
cool place to run.
Yeah.
Well, normally I do run everyday outside there, but for some
(03:26):
reason the air was just sothick.
And even Matt found it reallyhard to run outside.
It was just not worth it becauseyou weren't getting anything out
of it.
Like there was no benefit torunning that heat.
No, I'd hate that.
Yeah.
But let's dive into today's secuh today's episode.
I want to chat to you about howyour training is actually going
(03:48):
because you are training towardsthe HBF run for a reason.
I am, yes.
And for those who don't knowwhat the HBF run for a reason
is, if you don't live in Perth,it's one of our bigger runs on
the calendar for the year.
Um there's a half marathon, 12K,and a 4K.
You're training for the halfmarathon.
I am.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
So how's training going right now?
Uh a bit mixed, I think.
Some parts good, some partshard.
But I suppose when I think backon every block, it's probably
been similar and just indifferent ways.
You know, I don't think it evergoes perfect, and it certainly
isn't this time either.
But I guess um the challengesare what builds us into a into a
(04:32):
better runner, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (04:34):
Yeah, so you're saying things haven't been going
perfectly where you're expectingto be at this point compared to
where you feel like you are.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
I guess you want to be in a spot a position of
confidence, but I guess thinkingback, I always find it hard in
the middle of a block to be in aposition of confidence.
So it sort of is traveling onlike most other blocks in a way.
I've just had to work aroundsome things um that have made it
a little bit harder.
(05:02):
I guess you probably haven'tbeen as consistent this block as
some other blocks, but I've hadthose challenges before.
SPEAKER_02 (05:10):
Yeah.
I think consistency has stillbeen there.
It's just the quality of whatyou've been able to produce
that's been slightly different.
Yeah, that would be a good wayof saying it, yeah.
Yeah, I think people see atraining plan and assume it's
like just ticking boxes.
But what has surprised you mostabout the block so far?
And which week are you in?
SPEAKER_01 (05:31):
Oh, that is a I I don't even know what week we're
in.
Six?
Yeah.
Uh well, I guess yeah, life hasmade ticking those boxes a
little bit more difficult.
Uh first had an iron infusion,which actually has helped, but
it took a bit of time for thesystem to absorb that.
Um, but uh other things in mylife have drastically improved
(05:54):
with iron, so general tiredness.
So I didn't even realise that Iwas battling and brain fog and
things I didn't realise wasn'tnormal, but I'd passed as
normal.
Yeah.
It was obviously starting toimpact my running, particularly
after Bastelston.
I exhausted myself in that onePB, and after that it all sort
of fell apart a little bit.
But I've had that sorted now.
(06:16):
But then I also had a plannedeye surgery that I knew was
coming for a while, and it wastwo surgeries across two weeks
with three and four days of notbeing able to run, and then
trying to tick off the otherparts of the runs that I was
meant to do that week.
Yeah, which was hard.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
And I think probably hard about that for you.
It wasn't the fact that you hadto have the rest, it was all of
the toxins that were goingthrough the body from the local
anesthetic and things like that.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
Yeah, and I think I thought it would I'd feel really
good after a couple of days off,but I actually didn't really, in
fact, as well with some of them,with one of them I jumped
straight into doing like a 17krun, and I actually felt really
fatigued after that.
And then I had some trouble witha lot of fatigue after that
because I just went straightfrom doing nothing for a couple
(07:05):
of days, forced to, and thenjust trying to do all or nothing
again.
Sh you know, in hindsight, Iprobably could have just eased a
little bit more back intorunning and respected um that
having, even though it was aquick surgery, having surgery
itself is um not just a simplething all the time.
And there's rate on the body andmy sleep and other things like
(07:28):
that.
SPEAKER_02 (07:29):
And also like your intake of food will change
because you're not exercising,you're not gonna eat as much.
I didn't know what to becauseyou weren't eating as much when
you went into that first run,you probably had didn't have
enough like fuel to get youthrough, which you think, oh
yes, I can run 17Ks, which weknow that you can, but with all
of the things combined and nothaving enough to eat, it
(07:51):
probably was yes, setting you upto And then I knew that normally
on a Sunday if I did a long runwith the sort of Monday recovery
day, Tuesday I'd be fine to jumpinto a session.
SPEAKER_01 (08:01):
I found just finding that Tuesday I was not limited
aerobically, but I just couldn'tmove my legs from fatigue.
And that's when I started mixingin some cross-training with
writing to give that a littlebit of a chance to get rid of
that fatigue before jumping intotrying to force my body to run
fast again.
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
It was not enjoyable, yeah.
No, so do you feel like themental side has been harder than
the physical this time around?
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
I think so, because when you're forced to rest and
sitting around, all I'm thinkingabout is how I want to be
ticking off this and buildingtowards this.
And I guess it's easier as wellwhen you're sitting around at
home to look back over the lastcouple of weeks and go, oh, I
had my infusion, but my sessionsare still a bit average, or you
(08:49):
start I guess there's more timeto ruminate on everything over
the past couple of weeks, whichisn't always, you know, a good
thing.
And I think a lot of runnersdon't like rest.
Not at all.
Especially when it's forcedrest.
I mean, in a way, though, forcedrest does make it easier in the
sense that you're listening tolike your surgeon tell you you
(09:10):
can't do this is easier thandeciding to give yourself rest
because you need a break orsomething like that.
I find is mentally hard.
I find it easier if someone inauthority is telling me that you
can't run.
And you know, the consequencesof messing up eye surgery is
obviously quite huge.
So I was I was not tempted torun.
No, it's well, I mean, you don'twant to lose your vision.
(09:32):
Right.
So well, just when it's gottenso good.
So I definitely was happylistening to my surgeon on that.
I find that easier in that way,but it just gave me time to just
ruminate on maybe you know how Ifeel like my fitness.
I wasn't sure where my fitnessis, and that I don't feel like
the sessions have reflectedwhere it actually is.
And I'm just in a bit of a weirdspot, is how it all feels.
SPEAKER_02 (09:53):
But yeah, it's just a bit of a a learning curve,
this training block.
And when you look back at itwhen it's done, you'll be able
to compare the next trainingblock that you do to this one.
Yeah.
And you'll have some evidencebehind all of that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
But and back to my last half marathon, some of the
s I had my like worst halfmarathon specific session before
that PB.
And then you're nice PB.
Sometimes I guess you can'talways run as fast in the middle
of a block when you're fatiguedand things are going on.
But when you have that taper andthat rest, suddenly.
And we know that race, pace andeffort is a bit different.
(10:25):
Like race, uh, pace can feelreally hard in training, but in
the with the environment of therun can feel a little bit easier
actually.
Yeah.
And it feels almost impossiblein training that that's the pace
you're gonna run.
But I felt like that before mylast half-marathon.
So I'm just trying to take it inmy stride.
SPEAKER_02 (10:42):
Well, saying that, I'm gonna skip the next question
and I'm gonna change what I havewritten down here.
Because yes, we've talked a lotabout like consistency of
emotion motivation, but you'vehad a lot of doubt, which is
what we talked about lastepisode.
Next week, or actually at theend of this week, we have a time
trial, which you have decidedthat you want to shift.
(11:06):
Explain to the listeners howyou're feeling about the time
trial and why you're wanting toshift it a week.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
I don't really know what more a week will give, but
it just feels too soon that itwould be this weekend.
And I guess I just felt like Ihaven't hit the the race pace
that I need to do it to get a PBin training very well.
And I think that's a matter offatigue, not necessarily aerobic
fitness.
I don't think that's the issue,but I guess that's where the
(11:32):
doubt comes into it that I guessI'm I'm more fearful of trying
to go out with a B expectation,blowing up and then feeling
worse, and then having thatbefore HBS will obviously not
help my confidence, even thoughrealistically an extra week
probably won't.
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
But what happens if you get to the following week?
Because if you get to thefollowing week and you've signed
up for this race and you get toit and you feel exactly the same
as you did now.
SPEAKER_01 (12:00):
That's very true, and I probably still think next
week that I haven't had enoughtime.
You know, it as I said, I don'tknow how much a week, but it
just feels it just feels way,way too soon.
And I guess the time I want totake off is a lot of uh, you
know, I'm thinking about tryingto shave off 25 seconds or so is
doesn't sound like a lot, but ina 5k It can be a lot.
(12:23):
It can be a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (12:24):
But like when was the last time you did a 5K time
trial?
Last year, end of last year.
Yeah, so it's been a good fouror five months.
Yeah.
Do you feel like you've gotpressure on you at the time
trial because we'd organised fortwo people to pace you and you
don't want to let them down?
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
Yeah, a little bit, or not necessarily waste their
time, but you they pace you andthen you pull out at 3K, you're
like, oh, like they obviouslydon't they want you to succeed,
and then if you don't, like thentwo people are gonna be
disappointed.
But I think I've just got tochange the goalpost to not
having a specific, like try andshave off those 25 seconds and
just try and and get 10 secondsof a PB would also help me feel
(13:05):
very confident that uh next goalis then in sight.
Or maybe not, you know, takingit conservative at the front.
Similar to how most of my PBsare run, actually, is sort of in
that negative split.
Yeah.
More of a progressive run than asolid hit out.
But I guess also I don't want tofeel disappointed because I
don't get the the sub-20 time.
But if I still got 20 and 10seconds, honestly, I'd be pretty
(13:28):
stoked.
SPEAKER_02 (13:28):
I mean it's still a PB.
Yeah.
Unless you're getting closer tothat sort of marker that you're
trying to reach.
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
So I guess I just don't want to I don't want to
focus too much on that sub-20because I then don't want to set
myself up to be disappointed ifI still get a PB, because at the
end of the day, that's I guessit's kind of similar in a
marathon when people dream ofthe sub-three and they get
through a five, and it could bea 20-minute PB and people still
(13:55):
aren't happy because they didn'thit that magic number.
Yeah.
I think a PB, regardless, shouldbe celebrated.
Exactly.
But then people still get downafter not getting that sub,
whatever time it may be.
And then there's the excusesthat come after that.
SPEAKER_02 (14:11):
And even before going into the race, like this
turnaround, you're also talkingnegatively about the time trial
where going into Bustleton, younever spoke negatively.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
But the time trial at the point of Bastleton was so
far away, I don't think I wasreally focused on it at all.
So what do you think that youhave learned about yourself as a
runner in this block?
I think I've been a lot wiserwith paying attention to my body
as well.
Like I've made decisions to notmiss a run but just change a
(14:42):
session into an easy run, whichis something I've probably never
done did before.
I would just do it and obviouslyhave a poor session because I
was too fatigued and then stillend up fatigued for the rest of
the week because I'm trying todo a session that I wasn't ready
for.
And this time jumping on thebike and doing other things to
still exercise and keep thataerobic base growing, but um not
(15:05):
stressing my body out.
Yeah.
To the point where then I justcan't, you know, do a session
properly.
You don't get much out of that,do you, rather than sometimes
the wiser option is to change.
Just move the gulf just thatlittle bit.
And then you might still get onegood session in that week
instead of two poor sessions.
I suppose there's looking overquality, over quantity.
(15:27):
If if like doing that session,you know, that would have only
made Saturday worse or morefatigued, that I wouldn't got
anything out of that.
There's two poor sessions, youknow, versus one quality
session, I feel like is isbetter.
And then just making up thedifference with a little bit of
cycling.
SPEAKER_02 (15:44):
Do you feel like the episodes that we've done in the
past have made you realize thatyou can start to shift and move
and listen to your body morethan you did yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (15:55):
I think the one we did about, you know, I'm very
good at telling other peoplewhen their fatigue is too much,
but then realizing that, yeah, Ithink I realized I'm on that run
when I still had fatiguecarrying two days later that
that was a sign.
Yeah.
That normally I would haverecovered in that time and I
would have felt a lot betterthat I was not quite, you know.
(16:16):
I know, you know, when you feelnormal and you know when you
don't, and yeah.
I needed to actually listen tothat.
And yeah, sometimes I guess inthe past I'd always want to tick
the box and say that I'd tickedoff every session and then get
to and do that.
Because I like being accountableto my program as well.
Yeah.
I don't like changing it if Idon't have to, but But you still
(16:39):
are ticking boxes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Just changing the effort that you're normally
required to do to get it done.
SPEAKER_01 (16:46):
And you know, it's better off in the long run,
isn't it?
Because, you know, years goneby, I've spent six weeks not
running at all.
SPEAKER_02 (16:52):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
And because I've had horrendous shin pain or
something when I could have juststarted altering a few things
here and there earlier.
Yes.
And still kept myself fit.
SPEAKER_02 (17:01):
But that's being that's the stubborn part of a
runner.
And I think every runner hasthat in them.
Everyone never wants to listen,never wants to stop or push
through it.
Oh, it'll be right, she'll beright.
But then realistically it's not.
And now that you've learnedthat, you know, you've got a
better understanding of what I'msaying to you as a coach when
(17:23):
those scenarios do pop up.
SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
Yeah, it makes a lot more sense in the long run as
well.
I guess you've got to thinkabout the long term, not just
oh, my week, I'm not gonna hitwhatever many K's I normally do.
Yeah, but I'm also not gonnalose fitness because I only did
two or three runs that week andan extra bit of bike or whatever
else I did.
SPEAKER_02 (17:43):
You're still moving, you're still getting your heart,
you're still doing all of that.
So let's um let's talk sessionsbecause I think that flows in
quite nicely.
People get curious about whattraining programs I do and plan
for my athletes.
So let's talk about what's yourhardest session been so far.
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
I personally think any session where the reps are
long, by that I mean like thethe one I find always hardest
times 2k, 2 times 1k.
What do you find challengingabout that?
I think just monitoring youreffort because you can feel good
in the first 2K, but if you'vegone out slightly too fast, that
(18:22):
second 2K, and then you'rereally just not ready at all for
the blow up next to one K.
And just being mindful of thatis hard when you feel pretty
good for the first one.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
Well, that's like anything, you always feel fresh
at the start.
Yeah, a race, evening sessions,even life in general.
You go out to a party, you'vehad only one drink, you still
feel fresh, you have another,and it just gets worse and worse
and worse.
So you can kind of relate thatto running as long as you boggle
out too hard.
Well, you're only gonna likeland on your face later on.
SPEAKER_01 (18:54):
I guess maybe with shorter ones like 400 metres.
I can be tired but or out ofbreath, but you can still power
through for that short amount oftime.
2K is just a long enough time.
So anything also like threetimes a mile, 1600 metres.
Although I think personally myleast favourite session was
three times ten minutes.
Why?
I don't know.
I feel like I like the idea ofdistance better.
(19:16):
Okay, so the time the time thingfor a session for me.
Like I love time for for easyruns.
Yeah.
Because it's e like how far youYeah, you you turn around at
half an hour, you know, and andyou know how you feel the
distance you cover is iswhatever it may be.
The trails makes it a little bitdifferent.
But there's something about whenit's on hard enough, but where
(19:37):
you just don't really know howfar you're running because it's
hard, yeah.
I need to like I convert it backinto distance.
So I do the first one and go,well, I I reached like 2.3k.
So I know that rough running.
That's very bad.
But I just find the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't mind actually some ofthe half marathon specific
(19:58):
sessions, maybe because it's notas a fast of a pace, even though
in that scenario the reps arealso long.
Yeah.
Doing like, you know, 6k easy,6k steady, 6k temperature.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Yeah, those ones are hard, but those ones are all
about the pre-fatigue.
Yeah.
So it's really holding you backat the start, which you know,
you can take that theory intothose sessions and you know,
your 2Ks really ideally theyshould be slightly slower than
your 1k effort.
So if you've done it right, youcan think, right, if I run five
(20:33):
to ten seconds slower for theseefforts, come my 1K's, I should
be able to pick it up and thinkstrong.
SPEAKER_01 (20:38):
I guess what I always forget is you never
really have a bad session ifyour first ret is five seconds
slower and you build up nicely,whereas you go five seconds
faster and you hate to have tosession.
SPEAKER_02 (20:53):
So on the flip side then, what has been the session
that's given you the mostconfidence?
I had a really good 800 metersession in this block.
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
Six hours.
Yeah.
I traditionally also hate likejust hate a lot of intervals.
Um with the group, I guess Imanaged my fastest 800 meter
ever, even though we did six ofthem.
And it was um, yeah, itsurprised me.
It was the best I'd felt atspeed.
Yeah.
In a while.
And 800 metres is still longenough that once again it's hard
(21:24):
to just power through if you dogo too fast.
SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Was that the one where you finished and you said
it was like three minutes, yeah.
Three minutes, and then we'relike all looking at you.
Yeah, like you just want likethree-minute pace because that's
like bloody fast.
Yeah.
But you meant three because youwere so tired from doing it and
excited by what you'd done.
You're like, I just did threeminutes for my eight hundred.
SPEAKER_01 (21:45):
I've never done a one off eight hundred meter, so
I wouldn't know how fast I couldreally go.
But that just kind of yeah,surprised me that I haven't
well, it's one of those like P Vthings at such a small distance
that you just don't really do.
Often?
No, it's not.
Because you're usually doingthem in a big session.
Like seven to four hundredmetres.
It's hard to PB 400 metres whenyour session is like 12 to 14
(22:09):
times 400 metres.
That's it.
We almost need to do like a minisports carnival.
Yeah.
And so sometimes it is hard toknow, but I just truly it was
hard, but I truly felt good.
And I think the groupenvironment obviously helps.
I think I was running them withRav.
SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
And he always pushes you.
Yeah.
You push him.
And him in Frankway just thatwas, yeah, the fastest I'd done
at 800.
And I was like, wow.
SPEAKER_02 (22:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
Pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
Yeah.
I mean, when you finished andhow excited you were, you were
like jumping up and down almostout of your skin.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
But that's running, isn't it?
The highest of highs and thenthe lowest of lows, you know,
struggling to complete a sessionor with that fatigue.
So, you know, it's it isdefinitely a bit of a roller
coaster sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
And and if it wasn't a roller coaster, then you're
not doing it right.
Or we wouldn't be human if itwasn't.
Exactly.
You're roller coaster.
There's so many factors, isn'tthere?
Exactly.
Let's go into doubt.
Has there been a moment whereyou doubt yourself in this build
besides having that or besidesthe 5K?
(23:16):
But removing the surgery and theinfusion.
Has there been a moment whereyou've doubted yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (23:23):
If that wasn't the fact, is I wouldn't have nearly
as much.
Yeah, I think.
But then I sometimes I just haveto remember that those are
factors that also once oncethese things have happened, you
can't go back and change.
The session that happened threeweeks ago.
So I just try not to talk about,you know, when I had that time
off being a look back on stuff,but just trying to look forward
(23:43):
instead of looking back at thesethings because you can't change
that anyway.
You can't change how the lastfive weeks have gone,
regardless.
It is what it is.
Yeah, it is what it is.
I can only look forward to nowand just focus on completing the
rest of the build, trusting theprocess that I, you know, and I
haven't stopped since bustled inany way.
(24:05):
I've just had a few slightlydifferent weeks.
But you know, things have stillbeen coming along okay.
And I just have to keepreminding myself of that, even
though I've had there thesereally good sessions and really
bad sessions.
But that happens, I'm sure,every block.
And I think sometimes you forgetthat with the next one, like
what the previous block waslike, and that you would have
had bad sessions the previousblock, but you've forgotten
(24:27):
about them.
And so it seems more importantnow that you're having those bad
sessions that things are notgoing to work out or well,
you're zoned in on a differentgoal, and so you've achieved the
previous goal.
SPEAKER_02 (24:39):
So now that you're on to the next one, you're kind
of like excited on that.
So anything that you're in themotion of doing is going to be
more negative at that point thanwhat it might have been
previously, or you've forgottenabout it.
So when those thoughts start tocreep in, what does that sort of
sound like?
SPEAKER_01 (24:54):
I think for me, I usually just start to predict
that it that it won't be a goodrace or come up with reasons why
it won't be a good race andalready have that play out in my
mind four weeks out, which is sosilly, isn't it?
But I just sort of predict Ijust I guess it's just
predicting the worst and youstart going, well, if I do fail
(25:16):
that race or whatever, it'sbecause X, Y, and Z.
And you sort of have it alreadylined up, which is really not a
good way to think of things.
But I think that's where if I'min that negative space, that's
where I tend to think I justpredict that it'll be a bad race
and I predict I or make upreasons in advance why.
SPEAKER_02 (25:33):
Yeah.
So you you've done that in thepast.
You didn't do that forBustleton.
How did you pull yourself out ofthat and get yourself into more
of a positive outlook?
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
I I guess once again, I don't try and move I
think I was with Bastelton.
I was very good at just if I hada bad session like just moving
on from it.
Yeah.
And not really thinking back onit too much and not letting it
sort of yeah, fester just movingon to the next week.
And I think that's thedifference that time is.
Yeah, I definitely had ups anddowns during that build that
(26:04):
I've totally probably forgottenabout.
Yeah.
But I just moved on from itreally quickly.
Yeah.
And just sort of went, oh well,the next, you know, let's just
put that one to the side.
And I didn't achieve what Iwanted to with that session, but
the next one will be good.
Yeah.
That's true.
That sort of I was a lot I was alot better at.
I suppose this block it's beenhard when I haven't been able to
(26:25):
run and then things have backedup, and I've probably had more
on a row that have been poor,then it's hard to just keep
thinking, oh, the next one wouldbe good because a lot it hasn't
been.
Yeah.
I'm still waiting for that nextone to be good.
Whereas Buster and I was reallygood at just putting that to the
side, and then the next fivewould be better.
SPEAKER_02 (26:43):
So if you could describe your fitness now in one
word, what would that be?
I think it's stable.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
I think I keep wanting to think that it's less
than what it has been, but justbecause I've had a few different
weeks, I keep wanting to thinkthat.
But I know that, you know, andthis the scientist in me knows
your VO2 Max doesn't changeunless you have like two or more
weeks of doing absolutelynothing.
(27:10):
And I know that the yeah, thescientist in me knows that's and
want previously the negativepart of me want to say that it
feels like it's worse, but Idon't think that's the case.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
So do you feel like race day is feeling close, or
does it still feel quite faraway and you feel like you've
got enough time?
SPEAKER_01 (27:32):
It is quite close.
But I'm still eager to do somehalf marathon specific sessions
considering how they went lastblock, that if I was to do a
better one this block, thatwould really make me feel pretty
good.
SPEAKER_02 (27:44):
So, what's one thing that you want to improve on or
lock in over the next few weeks?
SPEAKER_01 (27:50):
I think just um continuing to listen to my body,
but also getting back to alittle bit more consistency and
building the confidence, sort oftrying to get back to that
mindset I had before Bustleton,I think.
SPEAKER_02 (28:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
Is the the plan.
SPEAKER_02 (28:03):
That's the plan.
And what would what would asuccessful HBF look like for
you?
Not time-wise, but more of a anemotional or a feeling.
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
I think if I can feel like I did during my last
half marathon at Buston, I'd bereally happy.
I knew on that run at 6K I wasgonna do a PB.
I felt good.
Even I kept telling myself thathalfway I still want to feel
good, and then you know, allowedmyself the rein to build and get
faster.
When I think back to uh a badone I've had, I I felt like in
(28:37):
the 11th K I felt like I was inthe 18th K.
Yeah.
The 19th K.
That's how already fatigued Iwas at that point in the race,
which was too fatigued to have asuccess, you know, a good, a
good race.
So if I can just replicate how Ifelt during Bustleton and
finish, you know, really strong,but also be good at holding
myself back in that first half,yeah.
(28:59):
Um, and being able to then givemyself the rein to speed up,
I'll feel pretty good.
SPEAKER_02 (29:03):
So I'm gonna ask you, give me a word that
describes how you felt inBartleton.
Just strong.
I want you to now carry strong,even though you haven't felt
like that into HBF because thatwas a positive outcome.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Yeah, it it was.
I did feel strong.
And I just uh it's almost and Ifelt so confident.
I knew that this was I don'tguess there was other factors in
that as well.
It was a good uh weather thatday, there was other things.
But I had a good HBF last yearand that was like raining and
people complained about that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:38):
So Oh well it it poured down before it even
started when you're standing inthe like chute waiting to go.
So I don't know about you, butrain doesn't bother me.
I don't know how you feel aboutrace conditions, but I mean if
everyone's in the same boat,then it's fine.
But if I was to go out for a runon my own, obviously there's
gonna be some kind ofprocrastination, but then at the
(29:58):
end of the day, skin'swaterproof, so it shouldn't
really make too much of adifference.
Do you procrastinate if it israining?
Of course, and you know, nowthat I've got the option of
running inside on a treadmill,yeah, I'll pick and choose.
Like if it's raining and it'scold, I'm more likely to run on
my treadmill if it's like thenif it's raining and it's humid.
(30:18):
Because if it's humid, then mytreadmill room is going to be
humid.
SPEAKER_01 (30:21):
Yeah, okay.
I was thinking more like I hatehumidity, I run the treadmill,
but you're right, humiditydoesn't escape you even on the
treadmill.
SPEAKER_02 (30:28):
No, it definitely does not escape you on the
treadmill, not in your garageanyway.
So I think this has been like areally important conversation to
have because you're my athleteand I'm so um nothing always
looks completely perfect,polished, but you've just been
showing up.
And sort of I have been figuringit out as I go.
Exactly.
(30:48):
So if you are listening todayand you're in your own training
block right now, whether it'sHVFRAN for a reason or something
else, this is a reminder thatyou're probably doing better
than you actually think.
So keep showing up.
Yeah.
And if this episode hasresonated with you, make sure
you share it with a fellowrunning friend.
(31:10):
Um, and make sure you subscribeso that you don't miss an
episode.
And until next time, let's keepthe conversation going.
Hi, I'm Rochelle.
And this is my co-host Sarah.
And together we areRunversation, a conversational
paced podcast for youreasy-paced running journey.
And we're here to chat about allthings running, community, and
everything in between.
SPEAKER_02 (00:15):
Hello, Sarah.
Hello, Rochelle.
And hello to listeners.
Before we get into today'sepisode, Sarah, what did you see
on your run or in the gym thisweek?
SPEAKER_01 (00:24):
Two days ago, when we did a session at Burzwood,
there was a man with his bikeand he had in the back a little
basket.
He put his dog there.
And I've been doing a little bitof riding as a bit of
cross-training.
I thought, I wonder if I had toput my sausage dog in there.
But then I also was like.
(00:47):
I mean, only just started ridingagain.
I was like, I don't know if Itrust myself not to.
What if you have an accident orsomething and your dog's then
like flipped down?
They're not like secured downinto it.
And then it made me think, like,would I actually feel
comfortable doing that?
I guess riding lazily around theriver, not very far, might be
okay.
But yeah, it just made me think,would I Was it a basket or a
(01:08):
trolley?
No, it was a basket.
SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
The dog was stuck in the basket.
You could get like one of thosekid trolleys and you could put
them in the trolley and youcould like put the little seat
belts on them.
SPEAKER_01 (01:18):
If you could clip them in that but then like then
it would still be bad though ifyou had a, you know, and your
bike falls down and the dogstuck because it jumps with it.
Yeah.
And then is stuck in the basketand can't get out.
I thought, oh, I don't know.
Risk there, but it would bepretty cool.
But then I don't trust my dog tonot sort of jump out like
(01:38):
they've just jumped down now andgo and chase something.
Yeah.
So it would be cute though.
It would be cute sausage dogs.
Yeah.
Then the other issue is spittingtwo of them in it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
I actually saw yesterday.
I don't know where we were.
We were like somewhere on thetrail and there was two
long-haired sausage dogs.
And I remember saying to whoeverwas around at the time, Sarah
would just froth at these rightnow.
SPEAKER_01 (02:02):
It would tempt me to stop my run um and have yeah and
have a full actually.
SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
I think it was after our run and we went to go get a
coffee.
Oh, it was after your run,you're definitely stuck.
Yeah, it was after, but we gotstitched up.
Christian stitched us up becausethe coffee shop wasn't open.
So we did like a walk to thecoffee shop after our long run.
Then we had to turn around andcome back and it was on the way
back.
I was like, Sarah would frothover there.
SPEAKER_01 (02:25):
I would.
I just wouldn't have thrust thehills that Christian took you
on.
No, I've seen of a hue and myversion of a hue was two very
different things, is what Ifound.
So you just been a huge was amountain.
I don't agree on that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
Anything else that you saw, Rochelle?
Yes.
So I've recently been in Bali.
So I've done a couple of runsoutside over there.
But this time that it was thehumidity was quite thick, so I
didn't get out too often.
I did it a lot more on thetreadmill.
But when I was on one of mymorning runs, heading to our
accommodation from the airport,because I run out and back to
the airport, I could see now Ithink you pronounce it gang,
(03:02):
which means volcano.
Oh, that's a distance.
So that was really cool becausethere was like a little bit of
cloud, but not enough tocompletely cover it.
And I could just see the outlineand the shape of this volcano in
the distance.
So that was if you take away thehumidity, it would be a very
cool place to run.
Yeah.
Well, normally I do run everyday outside there, but for some
(03:26):
reason the air was just sothick.
And even Matt found it reallyhard to run outside.
It was just not worth it becauseyou weren't getting anything out
of it.
Like there was no benefit torunning that heat.
No, I'd hate that.
Yeah.
But let's dive into today's secuh today's episode.
I want to chat to you about howyour training is actually going
(03:48):
because you are training towardsthe HBF run for a reason.
I am, yes.
And for those who don't knowwhat the HBF run for a reason
is, if you don't live in Perth,it's one of our bigger runs on
the calendar for the year.
Um there's a half marathon, 12K,and a 4K.
You're training for the halfmarathon.
I am.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (04:09):
So how's training going right now?
Uh a bit mixed, I think.
Some parts good, some partshard.
But I suppose when I think backon every block, it's probably
been similar and just indifferent ways.
You know, I don't think it evergoes perfect, and it certainly
isn't this time either.
But I guess um the challengesare what builds us into a into a
(04:32):
better runner, I guess.
SPEAKER_02 (04:34):
Yeah, so you're saying things haven't been going
perfectly where you're expectingto be at this point compared to
where you feel like you are.
SPEAKER_01 (04:41):
I guess you want to be in a spot a position of
confidence, but I guess thinkingback, I always find it hard in
the middle of a block to be in aposition of confidence.
So it sort of is traveling onlike most other blocks in a way.
I've just had to work aroundsome things um that have made it
a little bit harder.
(05:02):
I guess you probably haven'tbeen as consistent this block as
some other blocks, but I've hadthose challenges before.
SPEAKER_02 (05:10):
Yeah.
I think consistency has stillbeen there.
It's just the quality of whatyou've been able to produce
that's been slightly different.
Yeah, that would be a good wayof saying it, yeah.
Yeah, I think people see atraining plan and assume it's
like just ticking boxes.
But what has surprised you mostabout the block so far?
And which week are you in?
SPEAKER_01 (05:31):
Oh, that is a I I don't even know what week we're
in.
Six?
Yeah.
Uh well, I guess yeah, life hasmade ticking those boxes a
little bit more difficult.
Uh first had an iron infusion,which actually has helped, but
it took a bit of time for thesystem to absorb that.
Um, but uh other things in mylife have drastically improved
(05:54):
with iron, so general tiredness.
So I didn't even realise that Iwas battling and brain fog and
things I didn't realise wasn'tnormal, but I'd passed as
normal.
Yeah.
It was obviously starting toimpact my running, particularly
after Bastelston.
I exhausted myself in that onePB, and after that it all sort
of fell apart a little bit.
But I've had that sorted now.
(06:16):
But then I also had a plannedeye surgery that I knew was
coming for a while, and it wastwo surgeries across two weeks
with three and four days of notbeing able to run, and then
trying to tick off the otherparts of the runs that I was
meant to do that week.
Yeah, which was hard.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
And I think probably hard about that for you.
It wasn't the fact that you hadto have the rest, it was all of
the toxins that were goingthrough the body from the local
anesthetic and things like that.
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
Yeah, and I think I thought it would I'd feel really
good after a couple of days off,but I actually didn't really, in
fact, as well with some of them,with one of them I jumped
straight into doing like a 17krun, and I actually felt really
fatigued after that.
And then I had some trouble witha lot of fatigue after that
because I just went straightfrom doing nothing for a couple
(07:05):
of days, forced to, and thenjust trying to do all or nothing
again.
Sh you know, in hindsight, Iprobably could have just eased a
little bit more back intorunning and respected um that
having, even though it was aquick surgery, having surgery
itself is um not just a simplething all the time.
And there's rate on the body andmy sleep and other things like
(07:28):
that.
SPEAKER_02 (07:29):
And also like your intake of food will change
because you're not exercising,you're not gonna eat as much.
I didn't know what to becauseyou weren't eating as much when
you went into that first run,you probably had didn't have
enough like fuel to get youthrough, which you think, oh
yes, I can run 17Ks, which weknow that you can, but with all
of the things combined and nothaving enough to eat, it
(07:51):
probably was yes, setting you upto And then I knew that normally
on a Sunday if I did a long runwith the sort of Monday recovery
day, Tuesday I'd be fine to jumpinto a session.
SPEAKER_01 (08:01):
I found just finding that Tuesday I was not limited
aerobically, but I just couldn'tmove my legs from fatigue.
And that's when I started mixingin some cross-training with
writing to give that a littlebit of a chance to get rid of
that fatigue before jumping intotrying to force my body to run
fast again.
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
It was not enjoyable, yeah.
No, so do you feel like themental side has been harder than
the physical this time around?
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
I think so, because when you're forced to rest and
sitting around, all I'm thinkingabout is how I want to be
ticking off this and buildingtowards this.
And I guess it's easier as wellwhen you're sitting around at
home to look back over the lastcouple of weeks and go, oh, I
had my infusion, but my sessionsare still a bit average, or you
(08:49):
start I guess there's more timeto ruminate on everything over
the past couple of weeks, whichisn't always, you know, a good
thing.
And I think a lot of runnersdon't like rest.
Not at all.
Especially when it's forcedrest.
I mean, in a way, though, forcedrest does make it easier in the
sense that you're listening tolike your surgeon tell you you
(09:10):
can't do this is easier thandeciding to give yourself rest
because you need a break orsomething like that.
I find is mentally hard.
I find it easier if someone inauthority is telling me that you
can't run.
And you know, the consequencesof messing up eye surgery is
obviously quite huge.
So I was I was not tempted torun.
No, it's well, I mean, you don'twant to lose your vision.
(09:32):
Right.
So well, just when it's gottenso good.
So I definitely was happylistening to my surgeon on that.
I find that easier in that way,but it just gave me time to just
ruminate on maybe you know how Ifeel like my fitness.
I wasn't sure where my fitnessis, and that I don't feel like
the sessions have reflectedwhere it actually is.
And I'm just in a bit of a weirdspot, is how it all feels.
SPEAKER_02 (09:53):
But yeah, it's just a bit of a a learning curve,
this training block.
And when you look back at itwhen it's done, you'll be able
to compare the next trainingblock that you do to this one.
Yeah.
And you'll have some evidencebehind all of that.
SPEAKER_01 (10:05):
But and back to my last half marathon, some of the
s I had my like worst halfmarathon specific session before
that PB.
And then you're nice PB.
Sometimes I guess you can'talways run as fast in the middle
of a block when you're fatiguedand things are going on.
But when you have that taper andthat rest, suddenly.
And we know that race, pace andeffort is a bit different.
(10:25):
Like race, uh, pace can feelreally hard in training, but in
the with the environment of therun can feel a little bit easier
actually.
Yeah.
And it feels almost impossiblein training that that's the pace
you're gonna run.
But I felt like that before mylast half-marathon.
So I'm just trying to take it inmy stride.
SPEAKER_02 (10:42):
Well, saying that, I'm gonna skip the next question
and I'm gonna change what I havewritten down here.
Because yes, we've talked a lotabout like consistency of
emotion motivation, but you'vehad a lot of doubt, which is
what we talked about lastepisode.
Next week, or actually at theend of this week, we have a time
trial, which you have decidedthat you want to shift.
(11:06):
Explain to the listeners howyou're feeling about the time
trial and why you're wanting toshift it a week.
SPEAKER_01 (11:11):
I don't really know what more a week will give, but
it just feels too soon that itwould be this weekend.
And I guess I just felt like Ihaven't hit the the race pace
that I need to do it to get a PBin training very well.
And I think that's a matter offatigue, not necessarily aerobic
fitness.
I don't think that's the issue,but I guess that's where the
(11:32):
doubt comes into it that I guessI'm I'm more fearful of trying
to go out with a B expectation,blowing up and then feeling
worse, and then having thatbefore HBS will obviously not
help my confidence, even thoughrealistically an extra week
probably won't.
SPEAKER_02 (11:49):
But what happens if you get to the following week?
Because if you get to thefollowing week and you've signed
up for this race and you get toit and you feel exactly the same
as you did now.
SPEAKER_01 (12:00):
That's very true, and I probably still think next
week that I haven't had enoughtime.
You know, it as I said, I don'tknow how much a week, but it
just feels it just feels way,way too soon.
And I guess the time I want totake off is a lot of uh, you
know, I'm thinking about tryingto shave off 25 seconds or so is
doesn't sound like a lot, but ina 5k It can be a lot.
(12:23):
It can be a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (12:24):
But like when was the last time you did a 5K time
trial?
Last year, end of last year.
Yeah, so it's been a good fouror five months.
Yeah.
Do you feel like you've gotpressure on you at the time
trial because we'd organised fortwo people to pace you and you
don't want to let them down?
SPEAKER_01 (12:42):
Yeah, a little bit, or not necessarily waste their
time, but you they pace you andthen you pull out at 3K, you're
like, oh, like they obviouslydon't they want you to succeed,
and then if you don't, like thentwo people are gonna be
disappointed.
But I think I've just got tochange the goalpost to not
having a specific, like try andshave off those 25 seconds and
just try and and get 10 secondsof a PB would also help me feel
(13:05):
very confident that uh next goalis then in sight.
Or maybe not, you know, takingit conservative at the front.
Similar to how most of my PBsare run, actually, is sort of in
that negative split.
Yeah.
More of a progressive run than asolid hit out.
But I guess also I don't want tofeel disappointed because I
don't get the the sub-20 time.
But if I still got 20 and 10seconds, honestly, I'd be pretty
(13:28):
stoked.
SPEAKER_02 (13:28):
I mean it's still a PB.
Yeah.
Unless you're getting closer tothat sort of marker that you're
trying to reach.
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
So I guess I just don't want to I don't want to
focus too much on that sub-20because I then don't want to set
myself up to be disappointed ifI still get a PB, because at the
end of the day, that's I guessit's kind of similar in a
marathon when people dream ofthe sub-three and they get
through a five, and it could bea 20-minute PB and people still
(13:55):
aren't happy because they didn'thit that magic number.
Yeah.
I think a PB, regardless, shouldbe celebrated.
Exactly.
But then people still get downafter not getting that sub,
whatever time it may be.
And then there's the excusesthat come after that.
SPEAKER_02 (14:11):
And even before going into the race, like this
turnaround, you're also talkingnegatively about the time trial
where going into Bustleton, younever spoke negatively.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
But the time trial at the point of Bastleton was so
far away, I don't think I wasreally focused on it at all.
So what do you think that youhave learned about yourself as a
runner in this block?
I think I've been a lot wiserwith paying attention to my body
as well.
Like I've made decisions to notmiss a run but just change a
(14:42):
session into an easy run, whichis something I've probably never
done did before.
I would just do it and obviouslyhave a poor session because I
was too fatigued and then stillend up fatigued for the rest of
the week because I'm trying todo a session that I wasn't ready
for.
And this time jumping on thebike and doing other things to
still exercise and keep thataerobic base growing, but um not
(15:05):
stressing my body out.
Yeah.
To the point where then I justcan't, you know, do a session
properly.
You don't get much out of that,do you, rather than sometimes
the wiser option is to change.
Just move the gulf just thatlittle bit.
And then you might still get onegood session in that week
instead of two poor sessions.
I suppose there's looking overquality, over quantity.
(15:27):
If if like doing that session,you know, that would have only
made Saturday worse or morefatigued, that I wouldn't got
anything out of that.
There's two poor sessions, youknow, versus one quality
session, I feel like is isbetter.
And then just making up thedifference with a little bit of
cycling.
SPEAKER_02 (15:44):
Do you feel like the episodes that we've done in the
past have made you realize thatyou can start to shift and move
and listen to your body morethan you did yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (15:55):
I think the one we did about, you know, I'm very
good at telling other peoplewhen their fatigue is too much,
but then realizing that, yeah, Ithink I realized I'm on that run
when I still had fatiguecarrying two days later that
that was a sign.
Yeah.
That normally I would haverecovered in that time and I
would have felt a lot betterthat I was not quite, you know.
(16:16):
I know, you know, when you feelnormal and you know when you
don't, and yeah.
I needed to actually listen tothat.
And yeah, sometimes I guess inthe past I'd always want to tick
the box and say that I'd tickedoff every session and then get
to and do that.
Because I like being accountableto my program as well.
Yeah.
I don't like changing it if Idon't have to, but But you still
(16:39):
are ticking boxes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:40):
Just changing the effort that you're normally
required to do to get it done.
SPEAKER_01 (16:46):
And you know, it's better off in the long run,
isn't it?
Because, you know, years goneby, I've spent six weeks not
running at all.
SPEAKER_02 (16:52):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
And because I've had horrendous shin pain or
something when I could have juststarted altering a few things
here and there earlier.
Yes.
And still kept myself fit.
SPEAKER_02 (17:01):
But that's being that's the stubborn part of a
runner.
And I think every runner hasthat in them.
Everyone never wants to listen,never wants to stop or push
through it.
Oh, it'll be right, she'll beright.
But then realistically it's not.
And now that you've learnedthat, you know, you've got a
better understanding of what I'msaying to you as a coach when
(17:23):
those scenarios do pop up.
SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
Yeah, it makes a lot more sense in the long run as
well.
I guess you've got to thinkabout the long term, not just
oh, my week, I'm not gonna hitwhatever many K's I normally do.
Yeah, but I'm also not gonnalose fitness because I only did
two or three runs that week andan extra bit of bike or whatever
else I did.
SPEAKER_02 (17:43):
You're still moving, you're still getting your heart,
you're still doing all of that.
So let's um let's talk sessionsbecause I think that flows in
quite nicely.
People get curious about whattraining programs I do and plan
for my athletes.
So let's talk about what's yourhardest session been so far.
SPEAKER_01 (18:01):
I personally think any session where the reps are
long, by that I mean like thethe one I find always hardest
times 2k, 2 times 1k.
What do you find challengingabout that?
I think just monitoring youreffort because you can feel good
in the first 2K, but if you'vegone out slightly too fast, that
(18:22):
second 2K, and then you'rereally just not ready at all for
the blow up next to one K.
And just being mindful of thatis hard when you feel pretty
good for the first one.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
Well, that's like anything, you always feel fresh
at the start.
Yeah, a race, evening sessions,even life in general.
You go out to a party, you'vehad only one drink, you still
feel fresh, you have another,and it just gets worse and worse
and worse.
So you can kind of relate thatto running as long as you boggle
out too hard.
Well, you're only gonna likeland on your face later on.
SPEAKER_01 (18:54):
I guess maybe with shorter ones like 400 metres.
I can be tired but or out ofbreath, but you can still power
through for that short amount oftime.
2K is just a long enough time.
So anything also like threetimes a mile, 1600 metres.
Although I think personally myleast favourite session was
three times ten minutes.
Why?
I don't know.
I feel like I like the idea ofdistance better.
(19:16):
Okay, so the time the time thingfor a session for me.
Like I love time for for easyruns.
Yeah.
Because it's e like how far youYeah, you you turn around at
half an hour, you know, and andyou know how you feel the
distance you cover is iswhatever it may be.
The trails makes it a little bitdifferent.
But there's something about whenit's on hard enough, but where
(19:37):
you just don't really know howfar you're running because it's
hard, yeah.
I need to like I convert it backinto distance.
So I do the first one and go,well, I I reached like 2.3k.
So I know that rough running.
That's very bad.
But I just find the time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't mind actually some ofthe half marathon specific
(19:58):
sessions, maybe because it's notas a fast of a pace, even though
in that scenario the reps arealso long.
Yeah.
Doing like, you know, 6k easy,6k steady, 6k temperature.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Yeah, those ones are hard, but those ones are all
about the pre-fatigue.
Yeah.
So it's really holding you backat the start, which you know,
you can take that theory intothose sessions and you know,
your 2Ks really ideally theyshould be slightly slower than
your 1k effort.
So if you've done it right, youcan think, right, if I run five
(20:33):
to ten seconds slower for theseefforts, come my 1K's, I should
be able to pick it up and thinkstrong.
SPEAKER_01 (20:38):
I guess what I always forget is you never
really have a bad session ifyour first ret is five seconds
slower and you build up nicely,whereas you go five seconds
faster and you hate to have tosession.
SPEAKER_02 (20:53):
So on the flip side then, what has been the session
that's given you the mostconfidence?
I had a really good 800 metersession in this block.
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
Six hours.
Yeah.
I traditionally also hate likejust hate a lot of intervals.
Um with the group, I guess Imanaged my fastest 800 meter
ever, even though we did six ofthem.
And it was um, yeah, itsurprised me.
It was the best I'd felt atspeed.
Yeah.
In a while.
And 800 metres is still longenough that once again it's hard
(21:24):
to just power through if you dogo too fast.
SPEAKER_02 (21:26):
Was that the one where you finished and you said
it was like three minutes, yeah.
Three minutes, and then we'relike all looking at you.
Yeah, like you just want likethree-minute pace because that's
like bloody fast.
Yeah.
But you meant three because youwere so tired from doing it and
excited by what you'd done.
You're like, I just did threeminutes for my eight hundred.
SPEAKER_01 (21:45):
I've never done a one off eight hundred meter, so
I wouldn't know how fast I couldreally go.
But that just kind of yeah,surprised me that I haven't
well, it's one of those like P Vthings at such a small distance
that you just don't really do.
Often?
No, it's not.
Because you're usually doingthem in a big session.
Like seven to four hundredmetres.
It's hard to PB 400 metres whenyour session is like 12 to 14
(22:09):
times 400 metres.
That's it.
We almost need to do like a minisports carnival.
Yeah.
And so sometimes it is hard toknow, but I just truly it was
hard, but I truly felt good.
And I think the groupenvironment obviously helps.
I think I was running them withRav.
SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
And he always pushes you.
Yeah.
You push him.
And him in Frankway just thatwas, yeah, the fastest I'd done
at 800.
And I was like, wow.
SPEAKER_02 (22:37):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
Pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
Yeah.
I mean, when you finished andhow excited you were, you were
like jumping up and down almostout of your skin.
SPEAKER_01 (22:44):
But that's running, isn't it?
The highest of highs and thenthe lowest of lows, you know,
struggling to complete a sessionor with that fatigue.
So, you know, it's it isdefinitely a bit of a roller
coaster sometimes.
SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
And and if it wasn't a roller coaster, then you're
not doing it right.
Or we wouldn't be human if itwasn't.
Exactly.
You're roller coaster.
There's so many factors, isn'tthere?
Exactly.
Let's go into doubt.
Has there been a moment whereyou doubt yourself in this build
besides having that or besidesthe 5K?
(23:16):
But removing the surgery and theinfusion.
Has there been a moment whereyou've doubted yourself?
SPEAKER_01 (23:23):
If that wasn't the fact, is I wouldn't have nearly
as much.
Yeah, I think.
But then I sometimes I just haveto remember that those are
factors that also once oncethese things have happened, you
can't go back and change.
The session that happened threeweeks ago.
So I just try not to talk about,you know, when I had that time
off being a look back on stuff,but just trying to look forward
(23:43):
instead of looking back at thesethings because you can't change
that anyway.
You can't change how the lastfive weeks have gone,
regardless.
It is what it is.
Yeah, it is what it is.
I can only look forward to nowand just focus on completing the
rest of the build, trusting theprocess that I, you know, and I
haven't stopped since bustled inany way.
(24:05):
I've just had a few slightlydifferent weeks.
But you know, things have stillbeen coming along okay.
And I just have to keepreminding myself of that, even
though I've had there thesereally good sessions and really
bad sessions.
But that happens, I'm sure,every block.
And I think sometimes you forgetthat with the next one, like
what the previous block waslike, and that you would have
had bad sessions the previousblock, but you've forgotten
(24:27):
about them.
And so it seems more importantnow that you're having those bad
sessions that things are notgoing to work out or well,
you're zoned in on a differentgoal, and so you've achieved the
previous goal.
SPEAKER_02 (24:39):
So now that you're on to the next one, you're kind
of like excited on that.
So anything that you're in themotion of doing is going to be
more negative at that point thanwhat it might have been
previously, or you've forgottenabout it.
So when those thoughts start tocreep in, what does that sort of
sound like?
SPEAKER_01 (24:54):
I think for me, I usually just start to predict
that it that it won't be a goodrace or come up with reasons why
it won't be a good race andalready have that play out in my
mind four weeks out, which is sosilly, isn't it?
But I just sort of predict Ijust I guess it's just
predicting the worst and youstart going, well, if I do fail
(25:16):
that race or whatever, it'sbecause X, Y, and Z.
And you sort of have it alreadylined up, which is really not a
good way to think of things.
But I think that's where if I'min that negative space, that's
where I tend to think I justpredict that it'll be a bad race
and I predict I or make upreasons in advance why.
SPEAKER_02 (25:33):
Yeah.
So you you've done that in thepast.
You didn't do that forBustleton.
How did you pull yourself out ofthat and get yourself into more
of a positive outlook?
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
I I guess once again, I don't try and move I
think I was with Bastelton.
I was very good at just if I hada bad session like just moving
on from it.
Yeah.
And not really thinking back onit too much and not letting it
sort of yeah, fester just movingon to the next week.
And I think that's thedifference that time is.
Yeah, I definitely had ups anddowns during that build that
(26:04):
I've totally probably forgottenabout.
Yeah.
But I just moved on from itreally quickly.
Yeah.
And just sort of went, oh well,the next, you know, let's just
put that one to the side.
And I didn't achieve what Iwanted to with that session, but
the next one will be good.
Yeah.
That's true.
That sort of I was a lot I was alot better at.
I suppose this block it's beenhard when I haven't been able to
(26:25):
run and then things have backedup, and I've probably had more
on a row that have been poor,then it's hard to just keep
thinking, oh, the next one wouldbe good because a lot it hasn't
been.
Yeah.
I'm still waiting for that nextone to be good.
Whereas Buster and I was reallygood at just putting that to the
side, and then the next fivewould be better.
SPEAKER_02 (26:43):
So if you could describe your fitness now in one
word, what would that be?
I think it's stable.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
I think I keep wanting to think that it's less
than what it has been, but justbecause I've had a few different
weeks, I keep wanting to thinkthat.
But I know that, you know, andthis the scientist in me knows
your VO2 Max doesn't changeunless you have like two or more
weeks of doing absolutelynothing.
(27:10):
And I know that the yeah, thescientist in me knows that's and
want previously the negativepart of me want to say that it
feels like it's worse, but Idon't think that's the case.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
So do you feel like race day is feeling close, or
does it still feel quite faraway and you feel like you've
got enough time?
SPEAKER_01 (27:32):
It is quite close.
But I'm still eager to do somehalf marathon specific sessions
considering how they went lastblock, that if I was to do a
better one this block, thatwould really make me feel pretty
good.
SPEAKER_02 (27:44):
So, what's one thing that you want to improve on or
lock in over the next few weeks?
SPEAKER_01 (27:50):
I think just um continuing to listen to my body,
but also getting back to alittle bit more consistency and
building the confidence, sort oftrying to get back to that
mindset I had before Bustleton,I think.
SPEAKER_02 (28:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
Is the the plan.
SPEAKER_02 (28:03):
That's the plan.
And what would what would asuccessful HBF look like for
you?
Not time-wise, but more of a anemotional or a feeling.
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
I think if I can feel like I did during my last
half marathon at Buston, I'd bereally happy.
I knew on that run at 6K I wasgonna do a PB.
I felt good.
Even I kept telling myself thathalfway I still want to feel
good, and then you know, allowedmyself the rein to build and get
faster.
When I think back to uh a badone I've had, I I felt like in
(28:37):
the 11th K I felt like I was inthe 18th K.
Yeah.
The 19th K.
That's how already fatigued Iwas at that point in the race,
which was too fatigued to have asuccess, you know, a good, a
good race.
So if I can just replicate how Ifelt during Bustleton and
finish, you know, really strong,but also be good at holding
myself back in that first half,yeah.
(28:59):
Um, and being able to then givemyself the rein to speed up,
I'll feel pretty good.
SPEAKER_02 (29:03):
So I'm gonna ask you, give me a word that
describes how you felt inBartleton.
Just strong.
I want you to now carry strong,even though you haven't felt
like that into HBF because thatwas a positive outcome.
SPEAKER_01 (29:19):
Yeah, it it was.
I did feel strong.
And I just uh it's almost and Ifelt so confident.
I knew that this was I don'tguess there was other factors in
that as well.
It was a good uh weather thatday, there was other things.
But I had a good HBF last yearand that was like raining and
people complained about that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:38):
So Oh well it it poured down before it even
started when you're standing inthe like chute waiting to go.
So I don't know about you, butrain doesn't bother me.
I don't know how you feel aboutrace conditions, but I mean if
everyone's in the same boat,then it's fine.
But if I was to go out for a runon my own, obviously there's
gonna be some kind ofprocrastination, but then at the
(29:58):
end of the day, skin'swaterproof, so it shouldn't
really make too much of adifference.
Do you procrastinate if it israining?
Of course, and you know, nowthat I've got the option of
running inside on a treadmill,yeah, I'll pick and choose.
Like if it's raining and it'scold, I'm more likely to run on
my treadmill if it's like thenif it's raining and it's humid.
(30:18):
Because if it's humid, then mytreadmill room is going to be
humid.
SPEAKER_01 (30:21):
Yeah, okay.
I was thinking more like I hatehumidity, I run the treadmill,
but you're right, humiditydoesn't escape you even on the
treadmill.
SPEAKER_02 (30:28):
No, it definitely does not escape you on the
treadmill, not in your garageanyway.
So I think this has been like areally important conversation to
have because you're my athleteand I'm so um nothing always
looks completely perfect,polished, but you've just been
showing up.
And sort of I have been figuringit out as I go.
Exactly.
(30:48):
So if you are listening todayand you're in your own training
block right now, whether it'sHVFRAN for a reason or something
else, this is a reminder thatyou're probably doing better
than you actually think.
So keep showing up.
Yeah.
And if this episode hasresonated with you, make sure
you share it with a fellowrunning friend.
(31:10):
Um, and make sure you subscribeso that you don't miss an
episode.
And until next time, let's keepthe conversation going.
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