February 25, 2025 • 31 mins
Recorded July 2024 (One of our first ever episodes!)
Althea Gibson: A champion against the odds
In this episode, hosts Simon and Vicky dive into the inspiring life and career of Althea Gibson, the first Black woman to win a Grand Slam tennis tournament. They explore her challenging upbringing in a sharecropping family, her move to Harlem, and the various obstacles she overcame due to segregation and racism. Despite numerous barriers, Gibson excelled in tennis, winning prestigious titles like Wimbledon and the US Open, and becoming a trailblazer for future generations. The episode also touches on the societal context of her era, her subsequent efforts to mentor young athletes, and her lasting legacy in the world of sports.
Book referenced: I always wanted to be somebody, Gibson (1958)
00:00 Getting Started: Introduction and Excitement
00:29 Introducing Althea Gibson
02:56 The Harsh Realities of Sharecropping
04:42 Althea's Early Life and Move to Harlem
08:38 Discovering Paddle Tennis
12:08 Rising Through the Ranks
13:27 Breaking Barriers in Tennis
15:23 The Hidden Barriers in Tennis
15:56 Modern Voter Suppression Tactics
16:17 A Heated Debate on Voting Systems
18:31 Althea Gibson's Historic Invitation
19:29 Triumphs and Challenges Abroad
20:44 Dominating the Grand Slams
23:14 The Harsh Realities of Amateur Tennis
26:23 A Legacy Beyond Tennis
29:50 Honoring Althea Gibson's Impact
31:28 Closing Thoughts and Call to Action
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
shall we get cracking?
Shall we do it?
Let's do it.
My first, my first reading.
I'm so excited for you.
It's going to be amazing.
It's so full on edge.
You'll be fine.
You've got this, you've gotthis.
I need to learn.
Oh, hi everyone.
Welcome back.
Simon here and Vicky.
Hello.
Nice.
Hello.
That was slick, wasn't it?
(00:28):
Super slick.
Okay.
Today we are going to talk abouta lady called Althea Gibson.
Great name, by the way, Althea.
Why aren't there more peoplecalled Althea?
The only one I've ever heard.
Yeah! It sounds almost likeRoman, like Greek y, Roman y,
like Athena.
Yeah, it does, it's got a propergoddess vibe.
(00:48):
Yeah.
So, to start off with, I justwant you to pick a sport, any
sport you like.
Maybe an Olympic one as Parishas just begun.
Oh my gosh, you know what, I sawhockey on the telly the other
day.
Olympic hockey, that was cool.
So hockey, who wins out of theteam?
Well, the people who get themost.
(01:11):
The people who get the most,yeah.
And so, like, naively, I alwayslike to think that the best
player, well the best playersrise to the top.
The sport is like the ultimatemeritocracy.
The best person wins the medal.
That's cool.
Yeah, but that's naive.
That's a naive point of view.
How ridiculous.
That's a stupid notion.
(01:31):
I think it happens.
It's mad, isn't it?
Because like, yeah, naturaltalent happens.
Yeah.
You have natural talent.
How do you hone it?
How do you afford the kit?
How do you train?
How do you get access to thesethings?
Yeah, yeah.
You can be the best in theworld, but not allowed to play
in the same tournaments as othercompetitors.
You can't win if you can'tenter.
(01:51):
Um, so today's subject, AltheaGibson, became, well, not only
became one of the top ladiestennis players in the world in
the late 1950s, rising to thenumber one rank, winning major
tournaments, being the firstblack woman to win one of the
sort of big three Grand Slamtournaments.
But because of her background,her upbringing, where she grew
(02:13):
up, she had to fight everysingle part of the way just to
get access, even to the tenniscourts.
Yeah.
1950s.
Yeah.
1950s.
Yeah.
Well, I want to take back to1927.
Okay.
In South Carolina, a lady injunk called Daniel and Annie
Bell Gibson.
And they are Great names.
(02:33):
Loving all these names.
Annie Bell Gibson.
Annie Bell Gibson, yeah.
That's such a cool name.
It's like a, like a, like adeodorant or something, like a
shower gel.
Love that.
Love that.
They are Annie Bell Gibson.
What was the guy's name?
Daniel.
Daniel.
Wow.
He let the side down.
It's a bit boring, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The cool names only go down oneside of the family.
(02:56):
They're what's known assharecroppers.
Okay.
So, think back to slavery in theU.
S.
Technically abolished in 1865,this thing called sharecropping
continues for decades anddecades afterwards, right up
1910s, 20s, 30s, all the waythrough to the 70s.
It only came to an end.
Really partly because of theGreat Depression, partly because
(03:18):
of the mechanization of farming.
And what's sharecropping?
So sharecroppers, it's, it feelsto me reading about it like
slavery by another name.
It's where people get allocateda patch of land and they get to
farm that land and they get tokeep some of the crops that they
farm from it.
(03:39):
And in return they get providedtools and accommodation and
food.
But the landowner Can force themto sell them their crops at
manipulated prices, so theymaybe don't make a profit and
they're in debt to the landownerfor the accommodation and food
that they have and the toolsthat they use.
So it's like perpetual debt.
(04:00):
They're still fully under thecontrol of, of the landowner,
you know?
Okay, I was going really wellinto the last sentence there.
Wasn't it?
I was like, oh, that sounds likea pretty, oh, okay.
Yeah, so like this, strictlyspeaking, not slavery, but all
of these sort of freed men,it's, it's a loophole, yeah, and
(04:21):
it's, uh, they would be able toprovide for their families, not
really get anything else out ofit, no opportunities really to
escape.
And this is the environment intowhich Althea was born.
Oh, shut up.
And then she went.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Okay.
Okay.
I'm excited.
Yeah.
(04:42):
August 25th, 1927.
Um, Annie Bell gave birth toAlthea and this was a time of
the Great Depression starting tohit in the U.
S.
and affected these southernstates, these southern farming
states.
It affected them before anywhereelse.
So they were really badly hit bythis Great Depression, couldn't
sell their crops for enoughmoney, could no longer make the
(05:04):
living off it.
They had to make a decision tomove somewhere.
And so they moved to Harlem inNew York.
Okay.
Now, at the time, Harlem wassort of the slums of Manhattan.
There was one nice area of it,Sugar Hill, which was home to
sort of wealthy AfricanAmericans, but Harlem largely
was a sort of poverty strickenslum area, few opportunities for
(05:27):
work, poor living conditions,still better than where they
were, where they couldn't earnanything.
And 1930s, of course,segregation was still in full
swing.
This was segregated America.
There is, it would.
It would be over 20 years untilsegregation in schools was
outlawed.
It would be, so that was 1954.
(05:49):
1955 was when Rosa Parks refusedto leave her seat on the bus.
So we're still 25 years awayfrom all of this.
And even when segregation wastechnically outlawed, there were
still mass protests about it.
Thousands of people rioting onthe streets because they didn't
want white kids to go to schoolwith black kids.
(06:09):
Well, a lot can change in 25years, can't it?
Because if you think 25 yearsago from here, we're 1999, like
so much has happened in the lastfive years.
Oh, yeah.
We've got mobile phones.
Well, yeah.
Plus Facebook.
And Facebook, right?
Yeah, okay, so we're away.
There's a big gap between Biggap, yeah.
(06:30):
Like, poor surroundings, minimalrights, outrageous racism, and
Althea grew up in an environmentwhere everything was stacked
against her, like, to make iteven worse, she was a woman, so
she had even less chance ofsucceeding.
Bloody hell.
You told me she was a woman.
I know.
Oh, God.
As if she didn't have enough todeal with at the same time.
(06:52):
But what she did have, what shedid have was fight.
Okay.
She had fight in the literalsense, because her dad taught
her how to box.
Right.
Right.
Right.
He was quite an aggressive man,but he taught her to box, taught
her how to look after herself onthe streets.
Do you think that?
Yeah.
So it's self defense.
Yeah.
Like, protect yourself.
(07:12):
Okay.
And this gave her, you know,fight.
Everything that she was goingthrough as a kid gave her fight
in that sort of mental sense aswell.
She wanted to win.
Okay.
Whether that was street fightingor basketball or paddle tennis,
she had that determination.
In her own words, she alwayswanted to be somebody.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um.
I'm not competitive with you.
(07:34):
I'm not very competitive at all.
And even at like board games andstuff, I'm always a bit like,
yeah, okay, as long as we're allhaving a nice time.
And also competitive people putme on edge a little bit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I don't think we would havebeen friends.
I haven't had the mindset to bean athlete.
Maybe not ruthless enough.
(07:55):
But she said, but I think that'sdifferent.
So what was the quote?
She always wanted to besomebody.
Yeah, I think that's different.
being competitive to one.
I think you can want to besomebody and not be competitive
because you're almost I guessyou're being competitive for
yourself aren't you if you wantto go a bit deep but like I
think they're like mutuallyexclusive aren't they they're
(08:18):
like yeah very different thingsgrowing up where her family her
they have no status they have norights in society being somebody
of course gives you thatprotection gives you that
elevated status isn't it yeahokay so she's probably
competitive on top of all thatYeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
(08:38):
So in Harlem and around New Yorkat this time, they used to have
play areas where some streets inthe daytime, they would close
them to traffic and set outsporting apparatus for the kids
to go and play.
That's sweet.
And hone their talents and getsome exercise.
Because they didn't have parks.
Yeah.
Didn't have parks, didn't haveaccess.
So paddle tennis, which is muchlike normal tennis, but you play
(09:00):
it with a solid bat rather thana stringed one.
Okay.
So it's not table tennis?
Not table tennis.
No.
Still done on a court with a netthat's a bit lower.
The paddle tennis court wasright outside of her house.
So she could walk out the doorstraight onto the paddle tennis
court, challenge any kid thatcame along.
And she was, she was amazing atpaddle tennis and she was
(09:22):
amazing at a lot of sports.
She was really good atbasketball.
She was very good at fighting.
She later became really good atgolf, like paddle tennis, that
was her thing.
Okay.
And then at the age of 12, shebecame New York City's women's
paddle tennis champion.
Nice.
I love that they had a paddletennis champion.
We didn't have that, did we?
(09:43):
There's no Forrest of Deanpaddle tennis champions.
There is.
There should be.
Well, that's true that we knowof.
We'll have to invite them on.
Special guest.
Um, so seeing her talent.
Paddle tennis champion.
Um, some of her neighbors wentaround and collected up funds
(10:05):
and got together the finances tocenter, uh, to pay for her
membership and lessons.
At the Cosmopolitan Tennis Club.
Oh, this is cute.
Now, Cosmopolitan Tennis Clubwas located in the Sugar Hill
area of Harlem.
So it was the one nice part ofHarlem.
That was the posh bit, home tomany wealthy African Americans,
still a predominantly AfricanAmerican neighborhood, home to
(10:28):
them.
And many of these wealthy peopleliving there were involved in
the American Tennis Association.
And they had this fancy tennisclub, and it was one of the few
tennis clubs that she was able.
Now that they'd raised thefinances that she was even
allowed to go and play in.
Cause back in these times,tennis was still like a middle
(10:49):
upper class.
Okay.
It wasn't a good class.
I see.
Sport, much like golf clubs,have been up until recently, but
often men only.
If it wasn't men only, it wasdefinitely whites only.
No Jews, no blacks, no Irish,that sort of thing was still
very predominant.
So with the majority of theclubs still white only, black
(11:11):
players weren't allowed to joinor partake in tournaments.
Okay.
They found it difficult totrain.
They couldn't get coaches.
There's really poor access forit.
In 1916, a group of wealthyAfrican American business people
and members of the highestsociety founded the American
Tennis Association specificallyto put into place the
(11:34):
infrastructure for blackAmericans, black kids who get
interested in tennis to haveaccess to it, and also provide a
place for fans to, to Go and seethem safely because like you
couldn't even go in as aspectator to the normal places.
So just to provide I don't thinkit's done by that dean.
No, it's mad.
It might be immediate nuclear.
(11:54):
Yeah.
So they formed this associationto promote the game to players
and fans alike.
These days it's for any race,whatever your color.
But back then it was, it wasfocused on promoting it.
The black players and Altheatrained up at the cosmopolitan
tennis club and switched over totennis from paddle tennis at
(12:17):
first, she didn't like it.
She thought it was a game forwinks and just wanted to fight
everyone when she lost a point.
An anger issue.
She anger issues going up there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, when she was younger sheeven had to go to, she went to a
Catholic, not school, but sortof a refuge for people.
'cause her dad was so violent toher.
(12:37):
So like a really mixedrelationship with her father,
yo, to her out of box and Right.
Looked out for her, but also hewas, no, no, he was abusive.
Okay.
Not cool.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then the ata, so it's kindof like a learned behavior then?
Yeah, definitely.
That's what she was used to, theA PA ran tournaments.
Okay.
Players couldn't entertournaments held at other clubs.
(12:59):
Yep.
So in 1944 and 1945, Althea wonthe ATA girls title.
Oh my god, so you've got WorldWar II, haven't you?
Yeah.
Oh, there's the background.
Bloody hell.
So probably around the sametime, as long as our previous
subjects were smuggling, uh,smuggling kids out of the
dentist.
Yeah, Irina was doing, yeah, shewas doing her thing and Althea
(13:21):
was, you know, fightingoppression in the dentist world.
Okay, sweet.
Love it.
Love these timelines.
1946.
She moved on to the women'stournament.
She lost her first one, but thenwon in 1947 and won 10 further
titles back to back.
Back to back.
So she was like dominating.
And is she playing, is this justa black tournament or is that?
(13:45):
Just black tournaments in theATA.
So it's still second head.
Okay, cool.
The, like the word of her as anelite tennis player, that's
still one of the best.
She was dominating so much inthe ATA.
Okay.
Sort of word for getting out,she caught the attention of a
physician named Walter Johnson.
Someone who was really active inthe African American tennis
community, and under hispatronage, she then had access
(14:09):
to better coaching and moreprestigious tournaments.
So he would get her into moretournaments around the country,
pay more of her expenses.
Because you've got to rememberat the time, tennis is an
amateur sport.
This is not, there's no prizemoney, you play in the
tournament and you win thetournament and you get a trophy
or a prize or something, butit's sort of, yeah, there's no
(14:29):
big pot, um, the prize money,there's no sort of fame outside
of tennis.
They weren't competitive.
Yeah, okay, so he kind of picksher up as a prodigy.
Picks her up, yeah.
Mentors her.
She's very, like, she's got alot of people on board, doesn't
she?
Like, she has a lot of peoplefighting her corner.
And she's really, she's reallygot this drive and she's people
(14:50):
are seeing athletic woman.
She's nearly six feet tall andshe's got the sort of
determination.
I can see it in her and she'sgot the back of it as well.
Yeah.
She's clearly very, you know,she's got the talent.
Yeah.
The most prestigious tennistournament, tennis championship
(15:11):
in the U.
S.
is the U.
S.
National Championships, nowcalled the U.
S.
Open.
This really is where she shouldhave been playing because she's
beaten all of the rest of thecompetition.
She's up there at that level.
And 1950, there is no explicitrule in place preventing black
players from entering.
So, the tournament is open toanyone.
(15:34):
However, to qualify for thetournament, you need to
accumulate tournament points inother tournaments.
And all of the other tournamentsare white only.
So the US Open can sort ofcomply with society and say, Oh,
well, we're not putting anyrestrictions in place.
It's open to everyone.
Oh, yeah.
And it's like, you see the samething just repeated over and
(15:55):
over again.
It reminds me of sort of tacticsused to suppress voters in the
US to this day around sort ofvoter ID and how they split up
boundaries.
And yeah, the rule for voter IDisn't explicitly saying stop
black votes.
But it is unfairly prejudicing,disadvantaging really specific
(16:15):
members of society.
Wait a minute, have you spokento Cara about this recently?
No.
Me and Cara had a whole to do onWhatsApp because Cara, our
friend, is American and she'sbeen voting her entire life.
And, but we were talking aboutthe electoral system for the
coming US election and Cara waslike, Oh, I see.
(16:36):
I don't know if I actually dovote for, for Harris or whoever.
We did some research into it andit is so messed up, the voting
system, and she, Cara didn'tknow.
And Cara is a very intelligent,very, you know, contributed to
society and she just had no ideaof how their electoral system
works because they don't talkabout it.
(16:56):
And the fact that like, you'reright, Puerto Rico is very
exclusive.
There's so many communities thatare excluded from having a right
to say on their governing body.
Yeah.
And it's.
Absolutely, like Cara wasabsolutely shocked, like
understandably, but it's alsonot like Yeah, it's insane.
Not long ago, so we've had ourelection here in the UK and
(17:20):
we've got the face past the postsystem.
Yeah.
Which again, isn't proportionaterepresentation.
Oh my gosh, it's not right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Labour won, cool.
They didn't get the proportionof the votes that is, that
represents the number of MPsthey actually have.
And that's something that Torieshave tried to cut up different
sort of constituency boundariesto make it easier for them to
(17:41):
win certain places.
In America, even.
It's, I cannot believe it.
If you haven't looked it up,there's a great YouTube video.
It's like five minutes.
Yeah.
Maybe we can link it orsomething.
That is a really good explainer.
And like, it comes, it comesdown to these.
three or four battlegroundstates, isn't it?
Because all the other states arelocked in.
So it's just these swing statesthat they're really focusing on.
(18:04):
And then different things thatthey can do to disenfranchise
particular voters in those areasto swing it their way.
And no one's talking about it aswell.
Like no one's saying, actually,let's, let's change that.
Let's bring them on.
But it's so sickening.
Nuts.
2024.
So it's that bad in 2024.
We're seeing it with, you know,74 years ago, if you wanted to
(18:28):
play in a tennis tournament, youhad similar issues.
But the ATA lobbied really,really hard.
And with the help as well of aretired champion named Alice
Marble.
Althea did receive an invite tothe national championship.
So 1950, she is the firstAfrican American player to ever
step foot on that court.
(18:49):
She's the first person to enterthat tournament.
She didn't win, but you know,she held her own.
She, she got there.
She wasn't allowed to use thefront door.
She had to go in the back door.
She wasn't allowed to eat in thecanteen.
She wasn't allowed to use thechanging rooms.
She had to turn up through theback door, play the match and
(19:10):
then leave immediately.
So it's like, yeah, yeah.
But she completed.
Yeah.
So she would have been 23.
Yeah.
At this point, next few years,she won her international title.
She thought about giving up andentering the women's army corps,
(19:34):
but got convinced by the army todo a tour of Asia where she went
around and did exhibitionmatches.
Um, she played 18 tournamentsabroad.
16 of which she won.
So this is like her full timegig, right?
This is now her full time gig.
Yeah.
And kicked off really by thearmy, trying, taking her over to
Asia to do exhibition matchesout there.
(19:56):
And this was important for her.
It really built her confidenceand gave her a lot more
experience playing competitivelyagainst more varied opponents.
I think it was really good forher because she went over there
and saw like non white fans.
So all these different peoplefrom different ethnic
backgrounds were coming to watchher and impressed by her and not
(20:19):
shunning away at every, shunningher away every turn, every
opportunity, but welcoming her.
And it was really important forthe spectators and the other
players, the up and comingplayers out there to see, Oh my
gosh, America has actually putthis woman forward and she's
black and that she's coming outhere and smashing it, kicking
ass.
Yeah.
(20:39):
So she sort of really.
honed her game over these fewyears.
Um, and then in 1956, shefinally got into and won the
French Open.
Come on.
And the same year.
So she won at the French Openand then shortly after won the
doubles at the French Open aswell.
And I went to Wimbledon and wonin Wimbledon, the doubles.
(21:02):
This is like Serena level, isn'tit?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, she was dominating.
Well, they're called GrandSlams, aren't they?
Grand Slams, yeah.
So, as well as myriad other,like the Italian one, I think
the Hungarian Championship, shewon all of these tournaments
across Europe.
The key ones being the FrenchOak, and then doubles at the
French and Wimbledon.
(21:23):
1957, though, was, in her ownwords, Althea Gibson's year.
That's when it really cametogether for her.
When do I get one of those?
She was seeded first forWimbledon.
And at the time, Wimbledon, Imean, Wimbledon is still a big
deal.
But at the time it was stillseeded like the pinnacle.
(21:44):
And the winner in Wimbledon wasthe world number one.
How did she win it?
Then she was seeded first, andshe won, in the final, against
her fellow American DarleneHard.
After that, the same afternoonas her match, she won her match
in the morning, that afternoonshe won the doubles.
Yeah, got a day.
Partnering with the woman thatshe'd beat in the singles final.
(22:06):
Oh, that's nice.
But she became the first blackchampion at Wimbledon, and the
first of any of the champions tobe handed the trophy by the
queen.
Ah, this is so cool! And shesaid shaking hands with the
queen of England was a long wayfrom being forced to sit in the
coloured section of the bus.
Damn right.
So you think how far she's comealong.
(22:29):
And afterwards they had like achampion's dinner at the
Dorchester.
Oh my god.
So people took her to get adress and she was up there and
talking to all of these lordsand But she got where she wanted
to, she wanted to be somebodyand that is it, isn't it?
Yeah, she got there.
Same year, 1957, she then wonthe US Open.
Okay, she's on a high, she'sflying, lovely.
(22:51):
She's on a high, and thefollowing year, 1958, she did
the same again.
She won Wimbledon and the USOpen once more.
She was, she was so talented.
So she's, you know, up againstthe best in the world, at last,
allowed to be on a level playingfield with them.
And smashing it, and holding herown, and succeeding, and you
know.
Oh my god, what a story.
(23:14):
I mean, as I said, the tenniswas still an amateur sport, but
it remained so until the openera began in 1968.
So there wasn't prize money.
Isn't that funny that it'samateur?
Oh okay, is that what amateurmeans?
Because I was saying, the gamedoesn't turn up to everything.
Okay, okay, yeah.
Still a prestigious tournament,but no prize pot.
Prestigious, but amateur.
Okay, got you, got you.
(23:34):
They would receive sort of ameagre amount just to cover some
expenses, but this often wasn'tenough so it could cost them
money to go to a tournament.
I bet people were paying toparticipate though.
No, what's the word?
Spectate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The players wouldn't see thatmoney.
No.
So Wimbledon would have beenmaking money out of it, but the
players.
We weren't getting that.
There wasn't the crosswalk.
(23:55):
Sounds like that.
She received a ticker tapeparade through the streets of
New York.
No.
Oh, that's so cool.
So like footballers do on theirdouble decker busses, like that.
Yeah, and she was sat on the,propped up on the back seat of
an open top limo waving thecrowds.
Oh, come on.
Yeah.
That's so cool.
(24:15):
I mean, and in her hometown aswell, New York.
Yeah.
Sweet, sweet, sweet.
And she got, she like received aclaim from the mayor.
She got a letter from thepresident.
She had this short term.
mega fame.
Okay.
But wasn't sustainable.
She couldn't, she didn't, shewasn't through a wealthy
background.
Yeah.
(24:36):
And she wasn't getting any moneyfor winning these tournaments.
So to be a, to have a career intennis at the time was virtually
impossible.
You had to have money behind youto keep, keep playing.
And Olympians nowadays, so manyof them have to have jobs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're lucky if they can getproper sponsorship for training.
Yeah.
(24:56):
Yeah.
It was work hard enough.
Um, the best in the world, atthe absolute height of her
powers, couldn't make a livingfor it, from it, and they
basically retired in 1959, ayear after winning the double
tournament.
Yeah, and then she's retiringfrom tennis, but by the time the
open era came about and they didstart to give prize money, she
(25:18):
was then in her 40s, so couldn'tcompete with the youngsters.
Of course.
And the part of it still beingamateur is they weren't allowed
endorsement deals.
Right.
So she couldn't get sponsorshipfrom brands.
She couldn't be endorsed inadvertising for anything.
There was no other opponent.
No.
(25:39):
Despite breaking the barriersand achieving the success that
she had, female athletes, blackor otherwise, didn't have
anywhere near the sameopportunities to capitalize on
their success as their malecounterparts.
You think from a similar era,Muhammad Ali was everywhere.
And like, everyone knows abouthim to this day.
(26:00):
Everybody knows his name.
Iconic.
And like, they were breakingdown the same barriers.
They were doing the same thingas her.
And to like, similar levels ofsuccess.
They're being rewarded in adifferent way.
But they're rewarded in adifferent way.
They get the media.
They get, The coverage, they getthis sort of sustained fame that
lasts them well beyond theircareer.
(26:23):
So in the years following, sheran outreach and training
programs for young athletes.
Did she?
And she had a mildly successfulforay into golf.
So she became the first AfricanAmerican player on the women's
tour.
Is, you know, fighting downanother.
She just carried on with adifferent sport.
She was like, I'm going to pivotand off I go.
(26:43):
Nice.
She even had a go at singing.
She was so smart.
Did she?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And tennis saxophone, I think.
So she, she was a pretty.
She much challenged them.
Skilled lady.
Yeah.
But as is so often the case, shewasn't, she'd achieved all of
this.
She'd knocked down thesebarriers, wasn't necessarily the
(27:05):
one to really reap the benefitsfrom it.
The benefits and theseopportunities that she'd fought
for.
She was just sort of blazing thetrail.
At the time, tennis remainedhighly segregated.
They'd have someone come in andwin.
the most prestigioustournaments, but still like she
applied for membership of theAll England Club who runs
Wimbledon, owns that club, andthought that would be pretty
(27:29):
easy considering she's just wonit twice in a row.
She had five Wimbledon trophies,three doubles, two singles, and
she was repeatedly denied.
She was never given membershipor access to the club.
Neither was a Jewish doublespartner.
She was refused as well.
So it quickly felt like whateverbarriers that she felt, she
(27:53):
broken down it, but there werebeing put back up behind her,
but they were being put also,what else does she need to do?
Like what?
Absolutely.
She's come from like the mostabsolute poverty to smash your
school through all theseadversities.
Anyway.
A sport that had a lot ofwealthy purely because of the,
(28:15):
the nature of what it was.
Yeah.
You know, it was played by thesesort of upper, upper middle
classes.
No, neither.
Yeah.
It would be another 43 yearsuntil another African American
woman, Serena Williams would winthe US Open.
Wow.
43 years.
Yeah.
I all know Serena, but we dunno.
(28:37):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
Yeah.
But even if it.
Felt to her that these barrierswere sort of going straight back
up behind her.
She had punched that initialtrail through for others to
follow.
And it proved to be an amazingThat's a nice metaphor you've
got going on there.
Thanks, Cheryl.
And proved to the young athleteswho were coming up behind her,
(29:01):
it's possible, you can do it.
The next person, it will beeasier.
Billie Jean King said, after afellow called Arthur Ashe, But
then the first African Americanman to win 10 years after Althea
did, Billie Jean King said, ifit hadn't been for Althea, it
wouldn't have been so easy forArthur, all the ones who
(29:21):
followed.
Great.
Yeah.
She's a smart lady, Billie JeanKing.
Yeah.
She's smart cookie.
Yeah.
Respect.
So as always seems to be thecase, it's not that one person
can break these barriers downand that's that.
But it is the repeated thing andevery time it gets a bit easier.
(29:41):
Um, like succeeding despite asociety and the institutions
that were set up to ensure herfailing, she blazed a trail
which others have followedsince.
Um, over the years she's beeninducted into many halls of
fame, received medals andrecognition for her
achievements, and in 2019 astatue of her was unveiled at
the home of the US Open FlushingMeadows.
(30:01):
And it was only the secondstatue that they've ever put up
in honor of a camp.
The sculpture was by an artistcalled Gulda.
He said, Althea reoriented theworld and changed our
perceptions of what is possible.
We're still struggling, but shebroke the ground.
In her retirement speech, shesaid, I hope that I have
(30:24):
accomplished just one thing,that I have been a credit to
tennis and to my country.
Oh my god.
By all measures, reads theinscription on her Newark
statue.
Althea Gibson certainly attainedthat goal.
A little bit emotional.
Oh my God.
Yeah, she did.
(30:45):
She did achieve it.
I think she, she didn't justachieve it.
She went beyond, didn't she?
Yeah.
So impressed.
Well done.
Did you enjoy that?
I loved it.
I loved researching it all.
Oh, what a lady.
What a lady.
(31:06):
And I've learnt loads more aboutsegregation and the southern
states and authorities andsharecroppers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hopefully other people will seeit now.
The main source for all of thisis her book.
Is it?
Okay, great.
Which is called, I Always Wantedto Be Somebody.
I love that, so much for doingthat, that's amazing.
audio1246976076 (31:28):
Remember to like, rate, subscribe, check out
our socials.
We are doing a shout out ifyou've got any, suggested
subjects for us.
Or if you've just got a reallycool story to tell about any
woman at any time.
you know, they don't have tohave changed history, quote
unquote, just someone who'spretty kick ass.
(31:49):
Please share, and then we'll doa listening episode at some
point.
That'll be really cool.
Great, well thanks everyone.
shall we get cracking?
Shall we do it?
Let's do it.
My first, my first reading.
I'm so excited for you.
It's going to be amazing.
It's so full on edge.
You'll be fine.
You've got this, you've gotthis.
I need to learn.
Oh, hi everyone.
Welcome back.
Simon here and Vicky.
Hello.
Nice.
Hello.
That was slick, wasn't it?
(00:28):
Super slick.
Okay.
Today we are going to talk abouta lady called Althea Gibson.
Great name, by the way, Althea.
Why aren't there more peoplecalled Althea?
The only one I've ever heard.
Yeah! It sounds almost likeRoman, like Greek y, Roman y,
like Athena.
Yeah, it does, it's got a propergoddess vibe.
(00:48):
Yeah.
So, to start off with, I justwant you to pick a sport, any
sport you like.
Maybe an Olympic one as Parishas just begun.
Oh my gosh, you know what, I sawhockey on the telly the other
day.
Olympic hockey, that was cool.
So hockey, who wins out of theteam?
Well, the people who get themost.
(01:11):
The people who get the most,yeah.
And so, like, naively, I alwayslike to think that the best
player, well the best playersrise to the top.
The sport is like the ultimatemeritocracy.
The best person wins the medal.
That's cool.
Yeah, but that's naive.
That's a naive point of view.
How ridiculous.
That's a stupid notion.
(01:31):
I think it happens.
It's mad, isn't it?
Because like, yeah, naturaltalent happens.
Yeah.
You have natural talent.
How do you hone it?
How do you afford the kit?
How do you train?
How do you get access to thesethings?
Yeah, yeah.
You can be the best in theworld, but not allowed to play
in the same tournaments as othercompetitors.
You can't win if you can'tenter.
(01:51):
Um, so today's subject, AltheaGibson, became, well, not only
became one of the top ladiestennis players in the world in
the late 1950s, rising to thenumber one rank, winning major
tournaments, being the firstblack woman to win one of the
sort of big three Grand Slamtournaments.
But because of her background,her upbringing, where she grew
(02:13):
up, she had to fight everysingle part of the way just to
get access, even to the tenniscourts.
Yeah.
1950s.
Yeah.
1950s.
Yeah.
Well, I want to take back to1927.
Okay.
In South Carolina, a lady injunk called Daniel and Annie
Bell Gibson.
And they are Great names.
(02:33):
Loving all these names.
Annie Bell Gibson.
Annie Bell Gibson, yeah.
That's such a cool name.
It's like a, like a, like adeodorant or something, like a
shower gel.
Love that.
Love that.
They are Annie Bell Gibson.
What was the guy's name?
Daniel.
Daniel.
Wow.
He let the side down.
It's a bit boring, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The cool names only go down oneside of the family.
(02:56):
They're what's known assharecroppers.
Okay.
So, think back to slavery in theU.
S.
Technically abolished in 1865,this thing called sharecropping
continues for decades anddecades afterwards, right up
1910s, 20s, 30s, all the waythrough to the 70s.
It only came to an end.
Really partly because of theGreat Depression, partly because
(03:18):
of the mechanization of farming.
And what's sharecropping?
So sharecroppers, it's, it feelsto me reading about it like
slavery by another name.
It's where people get allocateda patch of land and they get to
farm that land and they get tokeep some of the crops that they
farm from it.
(03:39):
And in return they get providedtools and accommodation and
food.
But the landowner Can force themto sell them their crops at
manipulated prices, so theymaybe don't make a profit and
they're in debt to the landownerfor the accommodation and food
that they have and the toolsthat they use.
So it's like perpetual debt.
(04:00):
They're still fully under thecontrol of, of the landowner,
you know?
Okay, I was going really wellinto the last sentence there.
Wasn't it?
I was like, oh, that sounds likea pretty, oh, okay.
Yeah, so like this, strictlyspeaking, not slavery, but all
of these sort of freed men,it's, it's a loophole, yeah, and
(04:21):
it's, uh, they would be able toprovide for their families, not
really get anything else out ofit, no opportunities really to
escape.
And this is the environment intowhich Althea was born.
Oh, shut up.
And then she went.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
Okay.
Okay.
I'm excited.
Yeah.
(04:42):
August 25th, 1927.
Um, Annie Bell gave birth toAlthea and this was a time of
the Great Depression starting tohit in the U.
S.
and affected these southernstates, these southern farming
states.
It affected them before anywhereelse.
So they were really badly hit bythis Great Depression, couldn't
sell their crops for enoughmoney, could no longer make the
(05:04):
living off it.
They had to make a decision tomove somewhere.
And so they moved to Harlem inNew York.
Okay.
Now, at the time, Harlem wassort of the slums of Manhattan.
There was one nice area of it,Sugar Hill, which was home to
sort of wealthy AfricanAmericans, but Harlem largely
was a sort of poverty strickenslum area, few opportunities for
(05:27):
work, poor living conditions,still better than where they
were, where they couldn't earnanything.
And 1930s, of course,segregation was still in full
swing.
This was segregated America.
There is, it would.
It would be over 20 years untilsegregation in schools was
outlawed.
It would be, so that was 1954.
(05:49):
1955 was when Rosa Parks refusedto leave her seat on the bus.
So we're still 25 years awayfrom all of this.
And even when segregation wastechnically outlawed, there were
still mass protests about it.
Thousands of people rioting onthe streets because they didn't
want white kids to go to schoolwith black kids.
(06:09):
Well, a lot can change in 25years, can't it?
Because if you think 25 yearsago from here, we're 1999, like
so much has happened in the lastfive years.
Oh, yeah.
We've got mobile phones.
Well, yeah.
Plus Facebook.
And Facebook, right?
Yeah, okay, so we're away.
There's a big gap between Biggap, yeah.
(06:30):
Like, poor surroundings, minimalrights, outrageous racism, and
Althea grew up in an environmentwhere everything was stacked
against her, like, to make iteven worse, she was a woman, so
she had even less chance ofsucceeding.
Bloody hell.
You told me she was a woman.
I know.
Oh, God.
As if she didn't have enough todeal with at the same time.
(06:52):
But what she did have, what shedid have was fight.
Okay.
She had fight in the literalsense, because her dad taught
her how to box.
Right.
Right.
Right.
He was quite an aggressive man,but he taught her to box, taught
her how to look after herself onthe streets.
Do you think that?
Yeah.
So it's self defense.
Yeah.
Like, protect yourself.
(07:12):
Okay.
And this gave her, you know,fight.
Everything that she was goingthrough as a kid gave her fight
in that sort of mental sense aswell.
She wanted to win.
Okay.
Whether that was street fightingor basketball or paddle tennis,
she had that determination.
In her own words, she alwayswanted to be somebody.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um.
I'm not competitive with you.
(07:34):
I'm not very competitive at all.
And even at like board games andstuff, I'm always a bit like,
yeah, okay, as long as we're allhaving a nice time.
And also competitive people putme on edge a little bit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I don't think we would havebeen friends.
I haven't had the mindset to bean athlete.
Maybe not ruthless enough.
(07:55):
But she said, but I think that'sdifferent.
So what was the quote?
She always wanted to besomebody.
Yeah, I think that's different.
being competitive to one.
I think you can want to besomebody and not be competitive
because you're almost I guessyou're being competitive for
yourself aren't you if you wantto go a bit deep but like I
think they're like mutuallyexclusive aren't they they're
(08:18):
like yeah very different thingsgrowing up where her family her
they have no status they have norights in society being somebody
of course gives you thatprotection gives you that
elevated status isn't it yeahokay so she's probably
competitive on top of all thatYeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
(08:38):
So in Harlem and around New Yorkat this time, they used to have
play areas where some streets inthe daytime, they would close
them to traffic and set outsporting apparatus for the kids
to go and play.
That's sweet.
And hone their talents and getsome exercise.
Because they didn't have parks.
Yeah.
Didn't have parks, didn't haveaccess.
So paddle tennis, which is muchlike normal tennis, but you play
(09:00):
it with a solid bat rather thana stringed one.
Okay.
So it's not table tennis?
Not table tennis.
No.
Still done on a court with a netthat's a bit lower.
The paddle tennis court wasright outside of her house.
So she could walk out the doorstraight onto the paddle tennis
court, challenge any kid thatcame along.
And she was, she was amazing atpaddle tennis and she was
(09:22):
amazing at a lot of sports.
She was really good atbasketball.
She was very good at fighting.
She later became really good atgolf, like paddle tennis, that
was her thing.
Okay.
And then at the age of 12, shebecame New York City's women's
paddle tennis champion.
Nice.
I love that they had a paddletennis champion.
We didn't have that, did we?
(09:43):
There's no Forrest of Deanpaddle tennis champions.
There is.
There should be.
Well, that's true that we knowof.
We'll have to invite them on.
Special guest.
Um, so seeing her talent.
Paddle tennis champion.
Um, some of her neighbors wentaround and collected up funds
(10:05):
and got together the finances tocenter, uh, to pay for her
membership and lessons.
At the Cosmopolitan Tennis Club.
Oh, this is cute.
Now, Cosmopolitan Tennis Clubwas located in the Sugar Hill
area of Harlem.
So it was the one nice part ofHarlem.
That was the posh bit, home tomany wealthy African Americans,
still a predominantly AfricanAmerican neighborhood, home to
(10:28):
them.
And many of these wealthy peopleliving there were involved in
the American Tennis Association.
And they had this fancy tennisclub, and it was one of the few
tennis clubs that she was able.
Now that they'd raised thefinances that she was even
allowed to go and play in.
Cause back in these times,tennis was still like a middle
(10:49):
upper class.
Okay.
It wasn't a good class.
I see.
Sport, much like golf clubs,have been up until recently, but
often men only.
If it wasn't men only, it wasdefinitely whites only.
No Jews, no blacks, no Irish,that sort of thing was still
very predominant.
So with the majority of theclubs still white only, black
(11:11):
players weren't allowed to joinor partake in tournaments.
Okay.
They found it difficult totrain.
They couldn't get coaches.
There's really poor access forit.
In 1916, a group of wealthyAfrican American business people
and members of the highestsociety founded the American
Tennis Association specificallyto put into place the
(11:34):
infrastructure for blackAmericans, black kids who get
interested in tennis to haveaccess to it, and also provide a
place for fans to, to Go and seethem safely because like you
couldn't even go in as aspectator to the normal places.
So just to provide I don't thinkit's done by that dean.
No, it's mad.
It might be immediate nuclear.
(11:54):
Yeah.
So they formed this associationto promote the game to players
and fans alike.
These days it's for any race,whatever your color.
But back then it was, it wasfocused on promoting it.
The black players and Altheatrained up at the cosmopolitan
tennis club and switched over totennis from paddle tennis at
(12:17):
first, she didn't like it.
She thought it was a game forwinks and just wanted to fight
everyone when she lost a point.
An anger issue.
She anger issues going up there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, when she was younger sheeven had to go to, she went to a
Catholic, not school, but sortof a refuge for people.
'cause her dad was so violent toher.
(12:37):
So like a really mixedrelationship with her father,
yo, to her out of box and Right.
Looked out for her, but also hewas, no, no, he was abusive.
Okay.
Not cool.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then the ata, so it's kindof like a learned behavior then?
Yeah, definitely.
That's what she was used to, theA PA ran tournaments.
Okay.
Players couldn't entertournaments held at other clubs.
(12:59):
Yep.
So in 1944 and 1945, Althea wonthe ATA girls title.
Oh my god, so you've got WorldWar II, haven't you?
Yeah.
Oh, there's the background.
Bloody hell.
So probably around the sametime, as long as our previous
subjects were smuggling, uh,smuggling kids out of the
dentist.
Yeah, Irina was doing, yeah, shewas doing her thing and Althea
(13:21):
was, you know, fightingoppression in the dentist world.
Okay, sweet.
Love it.
Love these timelines.
1946.
She moved on to the women'stournament.
She lost her first one, but thenwon in 1947 and won 10 further
titles back to back.
Back to back.
So she was like dominating.
And is she playing, is this justa black tournament or is that?
(13:45):
Just black tournaments in theATA.
So it's still second head.
Okay, cool.
The, like the word of her as anelite tennis player, that's
still one of the best.
She was dominating so much inthe ATA.
Okay.
Sort of word for getting out,she caught the attention of a
physician named Walter Johnson.
Someone who was really active inthe African American tennis
community, and under hispatronage, she then had access
(14:09):
to better coaching and moreprestigious tournaments.
So he would get her into moretournaments around the country,
pay more of her expenses.
Because you've got to rememberat the time, tennis is an
amateur sport.
This is not, there's no prizemoney, you play in the
tournament and you win thetournament and you get a trophy
or a prize or something, butit's sort of, yeah, there's no
(14:29):
big pot, um, the prize money,there's no sort of fame outside
of tennis.
They weren't competitive.
Yeah, okay, so he kind of picksher up as a prodigy.
Picks her up, yeah.
Mentors her.
She's very, like, she's got alot of people on board, doesn't
she?
Like, she has a lot of peoplefighting her corner.
And she's really, she's reallygot this drive and she's people
(14:50):
are seeing athletic woman.
She's nearly six feet tall andshe's got the sort of
determination.
I can see it in her and she'sgot the back of it as well.
Yeah.
She's clearly very, you know,she's got the talent.
Yeah.
The most prestigious tennistournament, tennis championship
(15:11):
in the U.
S.
is the U.
S.
National Championships, nowcalled the U.
S.
Open.
This really is where she shouldhave been playing because she's
beaten all of the rest of thecompetition.
She's up there at that level.
And 1950, there is no explicitrule in place preventing black
players from entering.
So, the tournament is open toanyone.
(15:34):
However, to qualify for thetournament, you need to
accumulate tournament points inother tournaments.
And all of the other tournamentsare white only.
So the US Open can sort ofcomply with society and say, Oh,
well, we're not putting anyrestrictions in place.
It's open to everyone.
Oh, yeah.
And it's like, you see the samething just repeated over and
(15:55):
over again.
It reminds me of sort of tacticsused to suppress voters in the
US to this day around sort ofvoter ID and how they split up
boundaries.
And yeah, the rule for voter IDisn't explicitly saying stop
black votes.
But it is unfairly prejudicing,disadvantaging really specific
(16:15):
members of society.
Wait a minute, have you spokento Cara about this recently?
No.
Me and Cara had a whole to do onWhatsApp because Cara, our
friend, is American and she'sbeen voting her entire life.
And, but we were talking aboutthe electoral system for the
coming US election and Cara waslike, Oh, I see.
(16:36):
I don't know if I actually dovote for, for Harris or whoever.
We did some research into it andit is so messed up, the voting
system, and she, Cara didn'tknow.
And Cara is a very intelligent,very, you know, contributed to
society and she just had no ideaof how their electoral system
works because they don't talkabout it.
(16:56):
And the fact that like, you'reright, Puerto Rico is very
exclusive.
There's so many communities thatare excluded from having a right
to say on their governing body.
Yeah.
And it's.
Absolutely, like Cara wasabsolutely shocked, like
understandably, but it's alsonot like Yeah, it's insane.
Not long ago, so we've had ourelection here in the UK and
(17:20):
we've got the face past the postsystem.
Yeah.
Which again, isn't proportionaterepresentation.
Oh my gosh, it's not right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Labour won, cool.
They didn't get the proportionof the votes that is, that
represents the number of MPsthey actually have.
And that's something that Torieshave tried to cut up different
sort of constituency boundariesto make it easier for them to
(17:41):
win certain places.
In America, even.
It's, I cannot believe it.
If you haven't looked it up,there's a great YouTube video.
It's like five minutes.
Yeah.
Maybe we can link it orsomething.
That is a really good explainer.
And like, it comes, it comesdown to these.
three or four battlegroundstates, isn't it?
Because all the other states arelocked in.
So it's just these swing statesthat they're really focusing on.
(18:04):
And then different things thatthey can do to disenfranchise
particular voters in those areasto swing it their way.
And no one's talking about it aswell.
Like no one's saying, actually,let's, let's change that.
Let's bring them on.
But it's so sickening.
Nuts.
2024.
So it's that bad in 2024.
We're seeing it with, you know,74 years ago, if you wanted to
(18:28):
play in a tennis tournament, youhad similar issues.
But the ATA lobbied really,really hard.
And with the help as well of aretired champion named Alice
Marble.
Althea did receive an invite tothe national championship.
So 1950, she is the firstAfrican American player to ever
step foot on that court.
(18:49):
She's the first person to enterthat tournament.
She didn't win, but you know,she held her own.
She, she got there.
She wasn't allowed to use thefront door.
She had to go in the back door.
She wasn't allowed to eat in thecanteen.
She wasn't allowed to use thechanging rooms.
She had to turn up through theback door, play the match and
(19:10):
then leave immediately.
So it's like, yeah, yeah.
But she completed.
Yeah.
So she would have been 23.
Yeah.
At this point, next few years,she won her international title.
She thought about giving up andentering the women's army corps,
(19:34):
but got convinced by the army todo a tour of Asia where she went
around and did exhibitionmatches.
Um, she played 18 tournamentsabroad.
16 of which she won.
So this is like her full timegig, right?
This is now her full time gig.
Yeah.
And kicked off really by thearmy, trying, taking her over to
Asia to do exhibition matchesout there.
(19:56):
And this was important for her.
It really built her confidenceand gave her a lot more
experience playing competitivelyagainst more varied opponents.
I think it was really good forher because she went over there
and saw like non white fans.
So all these different peoplefrom different ethnic
backgrounds were coming to watchher and impressed by her and not
(20:19):
shunning away at every, shunningher away every turn, every
opportunity, but welcoming her.
And it was really important forthe spectators and the other
players, the up and comingplayers out there to see, Oh my
gosh, America has actually putthis woman forward and she's
black and that she's coming outhere and smashing it, kicking
ass.
Yeah.
(20:39):
So she sort of really.
honed her game over these fewyears.
Um, and then in 1956, shefinally got into and won the
French Open.
Come on.
And the same year.
So she won at the French Openand then shortly after won the
doubles at the French Open aswell.
And I went to Wimbledon and wonin Wimbledon, the doubles.
(21:02):
This is like Serena level, isn'tit?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, she was dominating.
Well, they're called GrandSlams, aren't they?
Grand Slams, yeah.
So, as well as myriad other,like the Italian one, I think
the Hungarian Championship, shewon all of these tournaments
across Europe.
The key ones being the FrenchOak, and then doubles at the
French and Wimbledon.
(21:23):
1957, though, was, in her ownwords, Althea Gibson's year.
That's when it really cametogether for her.
When do I get one of those?
She was seeded first forWimbledon.
And at the time, Wimbledon, Imean, Wimbledon is still a big
deal.
But at the time it was stillseeded like the pinnacle.
(21:44):
And the winner in Wimbledon wasthe world number one.
How did she win it?
Then she was seeded first, andshe won, in the final, against
her fellow American DarleneHard.
After that, the same afternoonas her match, she won her match
in the morning, that afternoonshe won the doubles.
Yeah, got a day.
Partnering with the woman thatshe'd beat in the singles final.
(22:06):
Oh, that's nice.
But she became the first blackchampion at Wimbledon, and the
first of any of the champions tobe handed the trophy by the
queen.
Ah, this is so cool! And shesaid shaking hands with the
queen of England was a long wayfrom being forced to sit in the
coloured section of the bus.
Damn right.
So you think how far she's comealong.
(22:29):
And afterwards they had like achampion's dinner at the
Dorchester.
Oh my god.
So people took her to get adress and she was up there and
talking to all of these lordsand But she got where she wanted
to, she wanted to be somebodyand that is it, isn't it?
Yeah, she got there.
Same year, 1957, she then wonthe US Open.
Okay, she's on a high, she'sflying, lovely.
(22:51):
She's on a high, and thefollowing year, 1958, she did
the same again.
She won Wimbledon and the USOpen once more.
She was, she was so talented.
So she's, you know, up againstthe best in the world, at last,
allowed to be on a level playingfield with them.
And smashing it, and holding herown, and succeeding, and you
know.
Oh my god, what a story.
(23:14):
I mean, as I said, the tenniswas still an amateur sport, but
it remained so until the openera began in 1968.
So there wasn't prize money.
Isn't that funny that it'samateur?
Oh okay, is that what amateurmeans?
Because I was saying, the gamedoesn't turn up to everything.
Okay, okay, yeah.
Still a prestigious tournament,but no prize pot.
Prestigious, but amateur.
Okay, got you, got you.
(23:34):
They would receive sort of ameagre amount just to cover some
expenses, but this often wasn'tenough so it could cost them
money to go to a tournament.
I bet people were paying toparticipate though.
No, what's the word?
Spectate.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The players wouldn't see thatmoney.
No.
So Wimbledon would have beenmaking money out of it, but the
players.
We weren't getting that.
There wasn't the crosswalk.
(23:55):
Sounds like that.
She received a ticker tapeparade through the streets of
New York.
No.
Oh, that's so cool.
So like footballers do on theirdouble decker busses, like that.
Yeah, and she was sat on the,propped up on the back seat of
an open top limo waving thecrowds.
Oh, come on.
Yeah.
That's so cool.
(24:15):
I mean, and in her hometown aswell, New York.
Yeah.
Sweet, sweet, sweet.
And she got, she like received aclaim from the mayor.
She got a letter from thepresident.
She had this short term.
mega fame.
Okay.
But wasn't sustainable.
She couldn't, she didn't, shewasn't through a wealthy
background.
Yeah.
(24:36):
And she wasn't getting any moneyfor winning these tournaments.
So to be a, to have a career intennis at the time was virtually
impossible.
You had to have money behind youto keep, keep playing.
And Olympians nowadays, so manyof them have to have jobs.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're lucky if they can getproper sponsorship for training.
Yeah.
(24:56):
Yeah.
It was work hard enough.
Um, the best in the world, atthe absolute height of her
powers, couldn't make a livingfor it, from it, and they
basically retired in 1959, ayear after winning the double
tournament.
Yeah, and then she's retiringfrom tennis, but by the time the
open era came about and they didstart to give prize money, she
(25:18):
was then in her 40s, so couldn'tcompete with the youngsters.
Of course.
And the part of it still beingamateur is they weren't allowed
endorsement deals.
Right.
So she couldn't get sponsorshipfrom brands.
She couldn't be endorsed inadvertising for anything.
There was no other opponent.
No.
(25:39):
Despite breaking the barriersand achieving the success that
she had, female athletes, blackor otherwise, didn't have
anywhere near the sameopportunities to capitalize on
their success as their malecounterparts.
You think from a similar era,Muhammad Ali was everywhere.
And like, everyone knows abouthim to this day.
(26:00):
Everybody knows his name.
Iconic.
And like, they were breakingdown the same barriers.
They were doing the same thingas her.
And to like, similar levels ofsuccess.
They're being rewarded in adifferent way.
But they're rewarded in adifferent way.
They get the media.
They get, The coverage, they getthis sort of sustained fame that
lasts them well beyond theircareer.
(26:23):
So in the years following, sheran outreach and training
programs for young athletes.
Did she?
And she had a mildly successfulforay into golf.
So she became the first AfricanAmerican player on the women's
tour.
Is, you know, fighting downanother.
She just carried on with adifferent sport.
She was like, I'm going to pivotand off I go.
(26:43):
Nice.
She even had a go at singing.
She was so smart.
Did she?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And tennis saxophone, I think.
So she, she was a pretty.
She much challenged them.
Skilled lady.
Yeah.
But as is so often the case, shewasn't, she'd achieved all of
this.
She'd knocked down thesebarriers, wasn't necessarily the
(27:05):
one to really reap the benefitsfrom it.
The benefits and theseopportunities that she'd fought
for.
She was just sort of blazing thetrail.
At the time, tennis remainedhighly segregated.
They'd have someone come in andwin.
the most prestigioustournaments, but still like she
applied for membership of theAll England Club who runs
Wimbledon, owns that club, andthought that would be pretty
(27:29):
easy considering she's just wonit twice in a row.
She had five Wimbledon trophies,three doubles, two singles, and
she was repeatedly denied.
She was never given membershipor access to the club.
Neither was a Jewish doublespartner.
She was refused as well.
So it quickly felt like whateverbarriers that she felt, she
(27:53):
broken down it, but there werebeing put back up behind her,
but they were being put also,what else does she need to do?
Like what?
Absolutely.
She's come from like the mostabsolute poverty to smash your
school through all theseadversities.
Anyway.
A sport that had a lot ofwealthy purely because of the,
(28:15):
the nature of what it was.
Yeah.
You know, it was played by thesesort of upper, upper middle
classes.
No, neither.
Yeah.
It would be another 43 yearsuntil another African American
woman, Serena Williams would winthe US Open.
Wow.
43 years.
Yeah.
I all know Serena, but we dunno.
(28:37):
Yeah.
It's interesting.
Yeah.
But even if it.
Felt to her that these barrierswere sort of going straight back
up behind her.
She had punched that initialtrail through for others to
follow.
And it proved to be an amazingThat's a nice metaphor you've
got going on there.
Thanks, Cheryl.
And proved to the young athleteswho were coming up behind her,
(29:01):
it's possible, you can do it.
The next person, it will beeasier.
Billie Jean King said, after afellow called Arthur Ashe, But
then the first African Americanman to win 10 years after Althea
did, Billie Jean King said, ifit hadn't been for Althea, it
wouldn't have been so easy forArthur, all the ones who
(29:21):
followed.
Great.
Yeah.
She's a smart lady, Billie JeanKing.
Yeah.
She's smart cookie.
Yeah.
Respect.
So as always seems to be thecase, it's not that one person
can break these barriers downand that's that.
But it is the repeated thing andevery time it gets a bit easier.
(29:41):
Um, like succeeding despite asociety and the institutions
that were set up to ensure herfailing, she blazed a trail
which others have followedsince.
Um, over the years she's beeninducted into many halls of
fame, received medals andrecognition for her
achievements, and in 2019 astatue of her was unveiled at
the home of the US Open FlushingMeadows.
(30:01):
And it was only the secondstatue that they've ever put up
in honor of a camp.
The sculpture was by an artistcalled Gulda.
He said, Althea reoriented theworld and changed our
perceptions of what is possible.
We're still struggling, but shebroke the ground.
In her retirement speech, shesaid, I hope that I have
(30:24):
accomplished just one thing,that I have been a credit to
tennis and to my country.
Oh my god.
By all measures, reads theinscription on her Newark
statue.
Althea Gibson certainly attainedthat goal.
A little bit emotional.
Oh my God.
Yeah, she did.
(30:45):
She did achieve it.
I think she, she didn't justachieve it.
She went beyond, didn't she?
Yeah.
So impressed.
Well done.
Did you enjoy that?
I loved it.
I loved researching it all.
Oh, what a lady.
What a lady.
(31:06):
And I've learnt loads more aboutsegregation and the southern
states and authorities andsharecroppers.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hopefully other people will seeit now.
The main source for all of thisis her book.
Is it?
Okay, great.
Which is called, I Always Wantedto Be Somebody.
I love that, so much for doingthat, that's amazing.
audio1246976076 (31:28):
Remember to like, rate, subscribe, check out
our socials.
We are doing a shout out ifyou've got any, suggested
subjects for us.
Or if you've just got a reallycool story to tell about any
woman at any time.
you know, they don't have tohave changed history, quote
unquote, just someone who'spretty kick ass.
(31:49):
Please share, and then we'll doa listening episode at some
point.
That'll be really cool.
Great, well thanks everyone.
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