October 2, 2025 • 30 mins
This podcast episode delves into the complex interplay between emotional consciousness and the physical symptoms experienced during perimenopause and menopause. We elucidate that the challenges faced during these transitional phases are not solely attributable to hormonal changes, but rather signify a profound awakening of life’s deeper truths that may often go unacknowledged. Jenna, the clinic CEO and menopause expert, alongside Dr. Liana, a medical rebel, engage in a candid discourse about the necessity of examining both the physiological and emotional dimensions of well-being. The conversation underscores the importance of self-awareness and the recognition of personal truths as integral components of navigating this life stage. Ultimately, we advocate for a holistic approach to health that transcends mere symptom management, encouraging listeners to embrace their journey toward self-acceptance and empowerment.
Links: modernmeno.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Ever find yourself at 2amlike, what the actual is happening
to me?
Spoiler.
It's not just your hormones.
It's your life cracking wideopen and no one warned you.
I'm Jenna, clinic CEO,menopause whisperer, and recovering
people pleaser turned truth slayer.
And I am Dr. Liana, menopauseexpert and medical rebel who's done
(00:21):
playing nice.
Welcome to Smoke, Mirrors, and Perimenopause.
We're not here to gracefully age.
We're here to blow up withtruth, science, and zero filters.
Follow the show and step intoyour I don't give a ERA no shame,
all flame.
Let's do this.
All right, we're live.
(00:42):
Hi.
Hi.
How you doing?
Better now.
Better now that I've, like,done five or six things to make myself
feel better in the last 30minutes, other than, like, slogging
on the couch, feeling sorry,feeling sorry for myself.
(01:04):
And why are you feeling sorryfor yourself?
Oh, gosh, let me look.
Let me check this book.
Well, what we're going to talkabout today is, I would say.
Would I.
What would I call it?
I would say talking about the con.
(01:26):
The, like, the consciousnesspiece or the consciousness aspect
to, like, the physicalsymptoms and physical issues we have.
I think that's something thatI really haven't talked a whole lot
about, but it's actuallysomething that I literally live my
life by.
Yeah.
So which I think is, like,where have I been?
(01:50):
You know, like, what?
Why have I not?
And I think that people whoknow me and really, really, truly,
truly know me, like, really get.
They get that about me, that Ihave that woo woo side.
I call it woo woo.
I mean, I don't care if it's triggering.
I just say woo woo, you know,that spiritual part of me or that
(02:11):
woo woo side.
But I think it comes withbeing a doctor for so long, I, you
know, in my opinion, for me.
But, you know, whenever Ihave, like, physical symptoms or
I have lab tests that are off,I'm also looking for the energetic
meaning behind it.
(02:32):
The conscious, the, theconsciousness meaning behind it.
You know, even for otherpeople, too.
I, I, I can sense it.
I pick up on it.
And if I feel someone is,like, really open to me sharing that,
then, you know, I'll share it.
But, like, you know, for me,you know, I just got my cortisol.
(02:56):
I got a lot of test resultsback, but one of them was the salivary
cortisol profile.
And, like, I have three out offour cortisol points throughout the
day that are elevated, like,very elevated, which is Very much
different than my last one,which was almost pretty much normal.
And when was the last one?
(03:16):
Oh, don't quote me on that.
My brain right now, I'mwondering, like months, years.
It's got to be at least a year.
Okay, so.
Yeah, so that's what.
Yeah, so that's kind of, Ithink, the conversation on deck too.
Also.
We should probably talk waymore about this stuff too, since
(03:40):
we're putting more content out there.
I think eventually it's.
I, I don't know why it feelslike this big secret, but it's like
we're also very woo woo.
And you know, like, I get likethe, the more visible we get is like
the, the less you can hide it,you know?
Yeah.
I think we have to come upwith a different word though.
(04:02):
Yeah, I know it triggers a lotof people.
I don't know why.
And I, it's so, it's really silly.
Well, I think that's why Ilike it.
Because it's playful and sillyand funny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean spirit, I guess you cancall it spiritual, whatever.
Like conscious.
Right.
Like there's just varyinglevels of health.
(04:26):
And I've talked about thisbefore, but like a lot of the stuff
with respect to perimenopauseand menopause that we, that we talk
about, but that you'll find onthe majority of people's platforms
who are out there talkingabout this, they're talking about
like the physical andphysiologic elements, but they're
not talking about theemotional energetic elements.
And like that's such a bigpiece of it.
(04:48):
Right.
So today.
Yeah, so, I mean, so besides,so, you know, as soon as I saw my
cortisol levels, I was like,oh my God, in the morning they're
super high.
So I'm, I'm giving up my caffeine.
Like, and I have been weaningoff coffee, but I'm really giving
it up.
And today I didn't have any,not even decaf.
(05:08):
So that's one of the reasonswhy my nervous system is like screaming
right now at me and, but, butbesides that.
And then I had poor sleepbecause Ginger was not feeling well.
So it's just you know,obviously a one time thing where
all these, this perfect stormof things have just collided and
(05:31):
I feel this bad or my nervoussystem feels this bad.
But I also, even when a onetime I was.
I don't want to call it like aone time, but even when situations
like this occur where it'slike a perfect storm of things happening,
I Other than see that as a coincidence.
Like, I see it, like, verymuch so on purpose.
(05:53):
And I think for me, like, youknow, today, because I'm, you know,
I'm exhausted, I have a headache.
I have.
I feel like I have detox symptoms.
You know, I'm exhaust.
Didn't sleep, so I feel like Ihave brain fog.
But, like, all these things happen.
And it's.
For me, there were some bigthings that I've been processing,
and it's like my.
(06:15):
My defenses had to be lowered.
It was like my defenses justhad to be lowered so that I could
lose it, like, literally,like, emotionally, like, allow myself
to emotionally just let go.
And this morning I did on myhike, and it was really cathartic.
(06:37):
And I realized a lot.
I had some pretty big breakthroughs.
And with this homeopathicremedy that was.
I'm spraying pretty much everyhour for the last three days.
And apparently that's howyou're supposed to take home some
homeopathics, like, every hour.
Sometimes I've heard every 20 minutes.
But, you know, I. I had all ofthese things happened so that I could
(07:03):
get this lesson or a couplelessons of, number one, slowing down
speed.
To speed up, I gotta slow down.
Right?
And that's another reason why,like, my cortisol is up and then
just.
And not that I'm physicallypushing, pushing, pushing, because
I've.
I've actually toned down a lotof my schedule and my days, but mentally
(07:28):
and emotionally slowing downis a big difference than, like, okay,
let me.
Let me lighten up my scheduleand just sit at home and chill and
relax.
Right.
Or clear my calendar.
And then the other big thingwas being loved and accepted for
who I am.
And I've been.
This is going to come up inthe podcast at some point too, is
(07:49):
this.
I'm gonna have to talk aboutthis relationship that I've been
navigating that's been.
That used to be back and forthup until now, but it was, yeah, just
realizing that I'm actuallygonna be loved and accepted for who
I am.
I don't have to change.
I'm okay and perfect as I amand like, personally stepping out
(08:13):
of that hamster wheel of letme get myself to a place of success
and physical appearances andall that to be good enough for a
man or a relationship or a jobor a career or whatever.
Right.
Like, all those things, like,actually letting that go.
So those were the two big lessons.
So anyway, that's my.
That's my big takeaway.
(08:34):
So there you go.
I'm Feeling like all thesethings have happened.
And those are the biggestpieces of those are the deeper levels
of consciousness driving allof these things happening.
Yeah, there's a lot going on.
Yeah.
I think might be interestingjust because I don't know how many
of our listeners reallyunderstand, like, the whole cortisol
situation.
(08:55):
Like, what should cortisol be doing?
What is cortisol?
Like, most people may not evenknow what is cortisol.
Right.
Like, I'm wondering if maybewe can talk about cortisol from the
perspective of those differentlayers, like physical, physiologic,
emotional, energetic, andwhat's happening in midlife around
that.
(09:15):
Yeah, well, so cortisol,you're supposed to have healthy amount
of cortisol, but too much fortoo long is a bad thing.
So, you know, we're wired ashumans to undergo stress, and that
stress is not meant to lastfor very long.
(09:36):
It's meant to be like you runaway from a tiger, you fight someone
off, you fight off an animal,and then you get to safety and then
you can calm down again.
Right.
Not like that and that.
And I'm.
I'm being.
Gosh, I hate using that analogy.
But for lack of a better one,it's just.
It's this primal instinct of.
(09:57):
You're.
It's okay, and you're wired tobe stressed, but you're.
It's not meant to stay stressful.
It's.
It's meant to come down, backdown pretty quickly.
So, you know, nervous systemregulation and being resilient, that's,
you know, that's where allthat comes into play is when your
(10:19):
cortisol can go up instressful situations and then come
right back down to a baselinenormal level.
That's nervous system regulation.
That's resilience.
When your cortisol bumps upbecause of stress and goes up because
you need cortisol when you'reunder stress, you need adrenaline,
you need your blood sugar togo up so you can handle stress.
(10:42):
Fight, like, mentally fight,verbal jiu jitsu if you need to.
It's meant to do that, butit's also meant to come back down.
If it doesn't come back down.
That's when chronicinflammation happens.
That's when chronic conditionsstart to come on board, come online.
And then that's also how yourhormones get hijacked, because cortisol
(11:04):
is a huge driver for bloodsugars and other things, and also
a big.
Sends a lot, a lot of signalsto your nervous system, especially
your hypothalamus and yourpituitary gland in your brain which
are, what are, what's drivingyour ovaries.
Right.
As a, as a woman or testes inthe men.
(11:25):
So that's how it can hijackyour hormones.
So if it's too high for toolong and it's not coming back down
and you're not resilient, youknow, and the thing is too, if you're,
if you, if you're chronicallyunder a lot of stress, then you can
lose that resiliency, you canlose that capability for your cortisol
to just bounce up and down ina healthy way.
(11:46):
Yeah, yeah.
And so there are twosituations, I think, where we see
the kind of detrimental impactof cortisol.
Either like running way toohigh or if it runs way too high for
too long.
If somebody's under chronicstress, what then can happen is they
(12:07):
can become totally depletedand flatlined with respect to their
cortisol curve.
So that's also not a goodplace to be.
So you want to, you want toregulate with like your circadian
rhythms.
Right?
So when you wake up firstthing in the morning, typically it's
at a certain, like a lowerpoint than it rises.
And then you want it over thecourse of the day to kind of come
(12:30):
back to baseline becausethat's when melatonin, your sleep
hormone kicks in.
And melatonin is what kind ofcontrols the next 12 hours of that
24 hour cycle.
So it's like such an intimate dance.
But I think the big issue thatwe see, and especially for, I know,
I see, like, for women inmidlife, is this feeling that we
(12:54):
have to be at all, do it alland have it all.
And then we put ourselves intothese situations where we're not
doing the self care, we're notdoing the nervous system regulation
work, we're not sleeping well,we're putting everyone ahead of ourselves.
Right.
And then we end up in thesesituations where you are and where,
(13:15):
I mean, I'm happy to share.
I'm like, I live in this worldof integrative medicine, right.
But I haven't taken a test totest my cortisol, I want to say,
since 2020, which I'membarrassed to say, five years, right.
Because two things have tohappen in order for me to do that.
(13:35):
I have to miss my morningcoffee, which is literally the highlight
of my day most days.
And the second thing is thatI'm afraid to know what those results
look like.
Right?
Yeah.
So I'm like the worst, theworst patient, even though I'm a
practitioner, because I alsofeel like, that's sometimes what
(13:58):
just keeps me going.
But on the other side of that is.
Is like a pretty scary scenario.
Yeah.
The things you'll have tochange and like, who.
It's.
It.
It is an identity shift.
Yeah.
You know, so for me, yeah, Ithink, you know, the lifestyle changes
(14:22):
and see, that's the thing.
Like we, we immediately.
I mean, there are lots oflifestyle changes that we need to
make sometimes with abnormallab results.
Right.
And also, I think it'simportant not to hang our hat too
much on lab results.
Like kind of take it with agrain of salt.
(14:43):
Like we can change them.
You know, like, I'm over here.
Like, oh, my God.
It's like the worst thing ever.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
It took me years to get anormal cortisol profile and now it's
back out.
Yeah.
And oh, my God.
And I have to skip dinner tonight.
I'm going to have to text Rachel.
(15:04):
I'm so sorry, I can't makedinner tonight.
I'm in my.
Over here because mycortisol's up.
So.
But you know, it.
The best thing you can do isgo to that dinner.
The best thing I couldprobably do.
I'll.
Yeah.
Probably ask her to pick me upor I'll like, I, I think that, you
(15:25):
know, in.
And this is also.
My doctor brain wants to go immediately.
Like, what am I going to take?
Like, oh, I. I need to changethe timing of my, my, my herbal adaptogens.
Right.
I need to change the timing ofmy phosphatidylserine.
And you know, but there's alot more than that.
(15:48):
What if the fix was not just that?
What if it was actually deeperthan that?
Which is what I'm feeling intofor me is not.
Not that I need to clear myschedule and stop lifting weights
and yada yada and going hard.
Right.
It's.
What if I've got to mentallyslow down and get off the hamster
(16:10):
wheel of trying to achievesomething and get.
And get somewhere.
There's no destination likewhere you're trying to get to.
Yeah.
No death.
Right.
A coffin.
That.
That is the only place any ofus are ever heading to in life.
Like, that's the oneguaranteed thing.
(16:31):
And I'm not trying to say thatto be morbid, but it's.
It's true.
Like, what else.
I mean, you're.
What are you gonna do until then?
And it's like once you getthere, what's happening?
You know, I'm saying we're notlike, you know, nobody else.
I mean, you know, I'm sayingit's not like, like, oh, it's here
about to die.
You know, I mean, like, it's.
(16:52):
We're not.
We.
First of all, you don't knowwhen it's coming.
You don't know when it's gonna happen.
And then secondly, like you,you know, most people.
So for me, most people, youknow, I. I've been in internal medicine
and critical care and hospital medicine.
I've been privy to so manypeople's last moments.
And it's really true what theysay that people are really like,
(17:17):
what?
You know, what did I not do, right?
What, What?
Like, I should have done moreof this.
I should have done more of that.
You know, and.
You know.
Yeah, I mean, I. I get that living.
It's very gap focused.
Right.
Not gain focus.
But then at the same time,like kind of it's.
It's.
They're sad.
And I, I can empathize withthat of like, gosh, like this.
(17:38):
This was all that there was.
And this was.
And.
And it's not even all that.
This.
It's not.
Let me rephrase that.
It's not.
This was all that there was.
It's like this was it.
People are not realizing like,oh, this that was it.
I should have been like.
Like living it up.
Like that was the thing to becelebrating and living up.
(18:01):
And here I am now.
And so I've seen so much of that.
That.
That's like in my head.
So I just.
I just do so much to try toenjoy my journey.
Right.
Like life is really a journey.
And.
And it.
It.
When it's sucking.
When it's sucking.
It's really hard to say that,you know, but it's really.
(18:25):
The truth is like, you know, so.
Yeah, I mean, and I'm guilty.
I mean, I'm saying all this,but there are days where I'm guilty
of like being like, you know,either feeling sad about it.
Woe is me feeling like I'mkind of in a victim mode and all
that.
But I've done enough growthwork to get my.
Learn how to recognize it andnot let myself dwell there for too
(18:46):
long.
Yeah.
Just get myself out of it.
So.
Yeah.
So that's just my.
That's the.
The piece I think that Iwanted to share about my cortisol
story and like what'shappening when you know, at a deeper
level too, like what to consider.
(19:06):
Right.
You know, like what.
What in my life do I need tolook at that's got me in this physical
situation?
Because frequency to me,everything is frequency and form
follows free.
Like it's frequency first,then form, form follows frequency.
So like whatever your,wherever you're vibing, or whatever
your, you know, whateveryou're, you're feeling into, or whatever
(19:30):
your frequency is first, it'lleventually manifest.
And that's why, you know, backin the old days, they'll say, oh,
you'll worry yourself like astomach ulcer.
You know it's because it'strue, right?
Yep.
This is what got me so intothe work around like belief systems
and mindset and nervous systemregulation was operating clinic for
(19:54):
almost nine years.
Now when we talk about, youknow, functional medicine is really
about root cause resolution, right?
It's looking beneath thesymptom, it's looking beneath the
diagnosis to say what's goingon in the body or mind to produce
these symptoms, to producethis disease.
Which again, probably,probably to some people sounds a
(20:15):
little bit woo woo.
But that's all interconnectedand all very valid.
And there's scientificresearch to show that, you know,
that this stuff is real.
But when I look at root causefor any type of dis ease, it goes
back to three key things,which is toxins, triggers and traumas.
And what I realized reallyearly in our journey was we got really
(20:38):
good at identifying triggersand toxins and treating those things.
Right.
The traumas that we reallystruggled with.
So what trauma does is itdoesn't just impact your mind, but
it impacts your body too.
It impacts your nervous systembecause your nervous system holds
on to this stuff.
So sometimes when we havedysregulation or disease, maybe it's
(21:03):
not a result of somethingphysical or even something physiologic.
It could just be a result ofthings that happened over the course
of our lifetime, whetherthey're small traumas or big traumas,
like big T's or little T'sthat put us in a place now where
we are just dysregulated inour nervous system.
Right.
(21:23):
Issues.
And one of the things we knowis that in perimenopause and menopause,
the symptom, the system thatis most impacted is not, it is not
like your immune system, it's not.
It's your nervous system.
Which is why we see thingslike anxiety and depression.
And the suicide rate is thehighest for women age 45 to 60.
(21:44):
Like there's a lot of going onfrom a nervous system perspective
during that time.
Hormones impact the nervoussystem, the nervous system impacts
the hormones and everything else.
So yeah, it's a lot.
And we need to learn how tobetter attuned to that and better
(22:04):
regulate ourselves and bettercare for ourselves.
Because it's not.
It's not a glass of wine and abubble bath, right?
It's not.
It's not the ways we used todo it.
It's breath work and it'smindset work and it's energy work
and it's.
It sounds complicated andcomplex, but it can be super simplistic
and it can be easy stuff woveninto your day.
(22:27):
Right.
It's.
It could be a simple too.
Yeah.
Like what we were talkingabout the other day of bio intelligence.
Like your ability, your.
Your ability to.
Your capability to.
To self heal.
And really what if all it.
It.
What if most of healing couldbe that you just get so in tune with
(22:51):
your body and you just get sofamiliar and connected to yourself
and to your physical body thatyou could notice symptoms very soon
as they happen or as they're.
You could even sense whenthey're coming, when they're about
to come on.
And you could actually sensewhen burnout might happen so you
(23:14):
could stop it from getting there.
And then number two, I thinkthe second part of that was getting
your, you know, getting yourintuition, building your intuition.
So a lot of people have.
A lot of people think thatintuition is like the psychic ability,
you know, like.
(23:35):
Like that's all it is.
It's just this sixth sense.
There's.
But intuition speaks to people.
It's.
It's different for everyperson is what I've realized.
And it can speak to you indifferent ways.
And I know for me a lot of myintuition comes through like my body,
right.
Not.
(23:55):
It's more than just like youknow, a spidey sense, my spidey senses
or my sixth sense, you know,that I've developed over the years
as you know, being a doctor,being around so many different energies
and all that.
But like it's.
It's for me and it's.
It's so fast and it's sovisceral for me and that I.
(24:16):
If I'm not eating clean, ifI'm like not really taking care of
myself, if I'm reallyneglecting my physical health, then
I. I'll miss it.
I'll miss the messages, right?
I'll miss my intuition.
And that's really importantfor me.
Yeah, I call that removing the noise.
Like that's what we do a lotof times early in our programs is
(24:41):
how do we remove the noise sothat we can better tune into what
our bodies are telling us.
And maybe that's why I don'tbother testing my cortisol, because
I know.
I know where it is.
It's not a good place.
I work on it every single day.
Right.
I work on it every morning,getting out and getting morning sun
and shutting down at nightappropriately and doing my breathing
(25:03):
and doing my meditation andexercise and connection with my friends.
And like, there's this isstuff I'm super conscious of because
I'm attuned.
I'm in tune with what's goingon and.
Right.
I think we need to help womentrust themselves more.
Yeah, yeah.
Like trust your.
I mean, there's a thing abouttrusting your gut.
(25:25):
Like having a gut feeling.
You know, I've.
I've called so many heartattacks on people from a gut feeling,
you know, of like, just, oof,this, like getting a feeling in my
body that this doesn't feel right.
And I'm like, oh, okay.
So, yeah, that person had a stroke.
Like, we didn't realize it.
It was very subtle.
It wasn't like, you know, anapparent, like, it was like a real,
(25:49):
like, subtle.
And so I think that a lot ofthings, I mean, you can sense into
so many things in life and.
And just being in tune withyour own connection, right.
To source and being in tunewith your own body is just going
to be.
That's the.
Cleaning that up is numberone, because that's the relationship
(26:10):
to yourself.
For sure.
So.
Good talk.
Yeah.
I didn't.
I forgot I had the book infront of me and I didn't even.
I didn't go into it.
Of what it says about whathappens when you have adrenal issues.
Let me look it up.
Love this book.
It's called My Words Made Flesh.
(26:33):
Endocrine Gland.
So good.
It kind of gives you an underlying.
It gives you a clue into,like, the underlying things that
you may have been feeling offabout, you know, like.
Let's see.
So when you have issues withadrenal glands, it could mean that
(26:54):
there's challenges withsadness about some loss that is stressing
you.
Withholding and hiding griefor feeling you always feel without.
Interesting feeling.
Yeah.
Feeling that you always feel without.
I could see.
I could see that.
Yeah.
See that.
(27:15):
And you know what'sinteresting is I had a lot.
I was processing a lot ofgrief over the summer.
Yep.
And then I did this test.
So it could be.
It could be picking up on whatI was going through in the last few
months.
So I'm thinking, right, like,because to your point, labs change.
Right.
(27:35):
Like, I wonder if you gothrough the process over the next
three months, obviously thingshave settled down a little bit.
They're back on track, you'refeeling better.
I mean, not only were youdealing with some turmoil in your
relationship, but we were alsolaunching a podcast, launching two
or three businesses.
Like had a major launch eventdown in Jacksonville.
(27:57):
Like, there was a lot going onover the last three to four months.
Yeah, it's going to change athousand percent.
I just tested somebody that Iwas looking for.
Pseudo Cushing syndrome,cyclical pseudo Cushing, which is
so rare.
But I found it and like,you're welcome.
Anyway, so I, but the, the it can.
(28:19):
I tested, I think a few weeks apart.
And even testing a few weeksapart, it's, it's, it's, it can be
different.
So that's why I don't reallyhang my hat on like, oh my God, this
is the way it is.
Like, I think people should beaware too of like sometimes how fickle
labs can be and, and howpowerful too, that we are, that we
can actually change them.
(28:39):
So.
Yeah, so what I love aboutthis book is that it also gives you
the decrees or the, the kindof the thing, the opposite frequency
to turn that around of whatyou were going through.
So the decrees would besomething like, these are like maybe
affirmations that I would sayto myself.
Right.
(29:00):
So I imagine my success beforetaking action.
I give myself permission toenjoy my joy fully and I touch all
sadness and grief.
Grief with love.
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, yeah, that's definitelyrelevant for me.
(29:24):
Yeah, for sure.
This book is always on point.
Anyway, all right, so in threemonths we shall see what my question
everyone posted.
We'll keep talk about accountability.
Yeah.
All right, y', all, until the next.
(29:45):
One, I'll flame no shame.
We hope you love the show asmuch as we love doing it.
To learn more and join themodern menopause movement, visit
modern menno.com that's modern.
Menno.Com because thisconversation doesn't end here.
(30:09):
And until next time, keepquestioning the smoke and mirrors.
And remember, you're notlosing your mind.
You're finding your truth.
And a quick but boringdisclaimer just necessary to say
anything discussed in thispodcast is for educational and informational
purposes only and solely as aself help tool for your own use.
We are not providing medical,psychological or nutrition therapy
advice.
(30:29):
You should not use thisinformation to diagnose or treat
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own medical practitioner.
Always seek the advice of yourown medical practitioner and or mental
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Even though I am a doctor andphysician, I am not your physician,
and this podcast does notcreate a doctor patient relationship.
Ever find yourself at 2amlike, what the actual is happening
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Spoiler.
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It's your life cracking wideopen and no one warned you.
I'm Jenna, clinic CEO,menopause whisperer, and recovering
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And I am Dr. Liana, menopauseexpert and medical rebel who's done
(00:21):
playing nice.
Welcome to Smoke, Mirrors, and Perimenopause.
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Follow the show and step intoyour I don't give a ERA no shame,
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Let's do this.
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(00:42):
Hi.
Hi.
How you doing?
Better now.
Better now that I've, like,done five or six things to make myself
feel better in the last 30minutes, other than, like, slogging
on the couch, feeling sorry,feeling sorry for myself.
(01:04):
And why are you feeling sorryfor yourself?
Oh, gosh, let me look.
Let me check this book.
Well, what we're going to talkabout today is, I would say.
Would I.
What would I call it?
I would say talking about the con.
(01:26):
The, like, the consciousnesspiece or the consciousness aspect
to, like, the physicalsymptoms and physical issues we have.
I think that's something thatI really haven't talked a whole lot
about, but it's actuallysomething that I literally live my
life by.
Yeah.
So which I think is, like,where have I been?
(01:50):
You know, like, what?
Why have I not?
And I think that people whoknow me and really, really, truly,
truly know me, like, really get.
They get that about me, that Ihave that woo woo side.
I call it woo woo.
I mean, I don't care if it's triggering.
I just say woo woo, you know,that spiritual part of me or that
(02:11):
woo woo side.
But I think it comes withbeing a doctor for so long, I, you
know, in my opinion, for me.
But, you know, whenever Ihave, like, physical symptoms or
I have lab tests that are off,I'm also looking for the energetic
meaning behind it.
(02:32):
The conscious, the, theconsciousness meaning behind it.
You know, even for otherpeople, too.
I, I, I can sense it.
I pick up on it.
And if I feel someone is,like, really open to me sharing that,
then, you know, I'll share it.
But, like, you know, for me,you know, I just got my cortisol.
(02:56):
I got a lot of test resultsback, but one of them was the salivary
cortisol profile.
And, like, I have three out offour cortisol points throughout the
day that are elevated, like,very elevated, which is Very much
different than my last one,which was almost pretty much normal.
And when was the last one?
(03:16):
Oh, don't quote me on that.
My brain right now, I'mwondering, like months, years.
It's got to be at least a year.
Okay, so.
Yeah, so that's what.
Yeah, so that's kind of, Ithink, the conversation on deck too.
Also.
We should probably talk waymore about this stuff too, since
(03:40):
we're putting more content out there.
I think eventually it's.
I, I don't know why it feelslike this big secret, but it's like
we're also very woo woo.
And you know, like, I get likethe, the more visible we get is like
the, the less you can hide it,you know?
Yeah.
I think we have to come upwith a different word though.
(04:02):
Yeah, I know it triggers a lotof people.
I don't know why.
And I, it's so, it's really silly.
Well, I think that's why Ilike it.
Because it's playful and sillyand funny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean spirit, I guess you cancall it spiritual, whatever.
Like conscious.
Right.
Like there's just varyinglevels of health.
(04:26):
And I've talked about thisbefore, but like a lot of the stuff
with respect to perimenopauseand menopause that we, that we talk
about, but that you'll find onthe majority of people's platforms
who are out there talkingabout this, they're talking about
like the physical andphysiologic elements, but they're
not talking about theemotional energetic elements.
And like that's such a bigpiece of it.
(04:48):
Right.
So today.
Yeah, so, I mean, so besides,so, you know, as soon as I saw my
cortisol levels, I was like,oh my God, in the morning they're
super high.
So I'm, I'm giving up my caffeine.
Like, and I have been weaningoff coffee, but I'm really giving
it up.
And today I didn't have any,not even decaf.
(05:08):
So that's one of the reasonswhy my nervous system is like screaming
right now at me and, but, butbesides that.
And then I had poor sleepbecause Ginger was not feeling well.
So it's just you know,obviously a one time thing where
all these, this perfect stormof things have just collided and
(05:31):
I feel this bad or my nervoussystem feels this bad.
But I also, even when a onetime I was.
I don't want to call it like aone time, but even when situations
like this occur where it'slike a perfect storm of things happening,
I Other than see that as a coincidence.
Like, I see it, like, verymuch so on purpose.
(05:53):
And I think for me, like, youknow, today, because I'm, you know,
I'm exhausted, I have a headache.
I have.
I feel like I have detox symptoms.
You know, I'm exhaust.
Didn't sleep, so I feel like Ihave brain fog.
But, like, all these things happen.
And it's.
For me, there were some bigthings that I've been processing,
and it's like my.
(06:15):
My defenses had to be lowered.
It was like my defenses justhad to be lowered so that I could
lose it, like, literally,like, emotionally, like, allow myself
to emotionally just let go.
And this morning I did on myhike, and it was really cathartic.
(06:37):
And I realized a lot.
I had some pretty big breakthroughs.
And with this homeopathicremedy that was.
I'm spraying pretty much everyhour for the last three days.
And apparently that's howyou're supposed to take home some
homeopathics, like, every hour.
Sometimes I've heard every 20 minutes.
But, you know, I. I had all ofthese things happened so that I could
(07:03):
get this lesson or a couplelessons of, number one, slowing down
speed.
To speed up, I gotta slow down.
Right?
And that's another reason why,like, my cortisol is up and then
just.
And not that I'm physicallypushing, pushing, pushing, because
I've.
I've actually toned down a lotof my schedule and my days, but mentally
(07:28):
and emotionally slowing downis a big difference than, like, okay,
let me.
Let me lighten up my scheduleand just sit at home and chill and
relax.
Right.
Or clear my calendar.
And then the other big thingwas being loved and accepted for
who I am.
And I've been.
This is going to come up inthe podcast at some point too, is
(07:49):
this.
I'm gonna have to talk aboutthis relationship that I've been
navigating that's been.
That used to be back and forthup until now, but it was, yeah, just
realizing that I'm actuallygonna be loved and accepted for who
I am.
I don't have to change.
I'm okay and perfect as I amand like, personally stepping out
(08:13):
of that hamster wheel of letme get myself to a place of success
and physical appearances andall that to be good enough for a
man or a relationship or a jobor a career or whatever.
Right.
Like, all those things, like,actually letting that go.
So those were the two big lessons.
So anyway, that's my.
That's my big takeaway.
(08:34):
So there you go.
I'm Feeling like all thesethings have happened.
And those are the biggestpieces of those are the deeper levels
of consciousness driving allof these things happening.
Yeah, there's a lot going on.
Yeah.
I think might be interestingjust because I don't know how many
of our listeners reallyunderstand, like, the whole cortisol
situation.
(08:55):
Like, what should cortisol be doing?
What is cortisol?
Like, most people may not evenknow what is cortisol.
Right.
Like, I'm wondering if maybewe can talk about cortisol from the
perspective of those differentlayers, like physical, physiologic,
emotional, energetic, andwhat's happening in midlife around
that.
(09:15):
Yeah, well, so cortisol,you're supposed to have healthy amount
of cortisol, but too much fortoo long is a bad thing.
So, you know, we're wired ashumans to undergo stress, and that
stress is not meant to lastfor very long.
(09:36):
It's meant to be like you runaway from a tiger, you fight someone
off, you fight off an animal,and then you get to safety and then
you can calm down again.
Right.
Not like that and that.
And I'm.
I'm being.
Gosh, I hate using that analogy.
But for lack of a better one,it's just.
It's this primal instinct of.
(09:57):
You're.
It's okay, and you're wired tobe stressed, but you're.
It's not meant to stay stressful.
It's.
It's meant to come down, backdown pretty quickly.
So, you know, nervous systemregulation and being resilient, that's,
you know, that's where allthat comes into play is when your
(10:19):
cortisol can go up instressful situations and then come
right back down to a baselinenormal level.
That's nervous system regulation.
That's resilience.
When your cortisol bumps upbecause of stress and goes up because
you need cortisol when you'reunder stress, you need adrenaline,
you need your blood sugar togo up so you can handle stress.
(10:42):
Fight, like, mentally fight,verbal jiu jitsu if you need to.
It's meant to do that, butit's also meant to come back down.
If it doesn't come back down.
That's when chronicinflammation happens.
That's when chronic conditionsstart to come on board, come online.
And then that's also how yourhormones get hijacked, because cortisol
(11:04):
is a huge driver for bloodsugars and other things, and also
a big.
Sends a lot, a lot of signalsto your nervous system, especially
your hypothalamus and yourpituitary gland in your brain which
are, what are, what's drivingyour ovaries.
Right.
As a, as a woman or testes inthe men.
(11:25):
So that's how it can hijackyour hormones.
So if it's too high for toolong and it's not coming back down
and you're not resilient, youknow, and the thing is too, if you're,
if you, if you're chronicallyunder a lot of stress, then you can
lose that resiliency, you canlose that capability for your cortisol
to just bounce up and down ina healthy way.
(11:46):
Yeah, yeah.
And so there are twosituations, I think, where we see
the kind of detrimental impactof cortisol.
Either like running way toohigh or if it runs way too high for
too long.
If somebody's under chronicstress, what then can happen is they
(12:07):
can become totally depletedand flatlined with respect to their
cortisol curve.
So that's also not a goodplace to be.
So you want to, you want toregulate with like your circadian
rhythms.
Right?
So when you wake up firstthing in the morning, typically it's
at a certain, like a lowerpoint than it rises.
And then you want it over thecourse of the day to kind of come
(12:30):
back to baseline becausethat's when melatonin, your sleep
hormone kicks in.
And melatonin is what kind ofcontrols the next 12 hours of that
24 hour cycle.
So it's like such an intimate dance.
But I think the big issue thatwe see, and especially for, I know,
I see, like, for women inmidlife, is this feeling that we
(12:54):
have to be at all, do it alland have it all.
And then we put ourselves intothese situations where we're not
doing the self care, we're notdoing the nervous system regulation
work, we're not sleeping well,we're putting everyone ahead of ourselves.
Right.
And then we end up in thesesituations where you are and where,
(13:15):
I mean, I'm happy to share.
I'm like, I live in this worldof integrative medicine, right.
But I haven't taken a test totest my cortisol, I want to say,
since 2020, which I'membarrassed to say, five years, right.
Because two things have tohappen in order for me to do that.
(13:35):
I have to miss my morningcoffee, which is literally the highlight
of my day most days.
And the second thing is thatI'm afraid to know what those results
look like.
Right?
Yeah.
So I'm like the worst, theworst patient, even though I'm a
practitioner, because I alsofeel like, that's sometimes what
(13:58):
just keeps me going.
But on the other side of that is.
Is like a pretty scary scenario.
Yeah.
The things you'll have tochange and like, who.
It's.
It.
It is an identity shift.
Yeah.
You know, so for me, yeah, Ithink, you know, the lifestyle changes
(14:22):
and see, that's the thing.
Like we, we immediately.
I mean, there are lots oflifestyle changes that we need to
make sometimes with abnormallab results.
Right.
And also, I think it'simportant not to hang our hat too
much on lab results.
Like kind of take it with agrain of salt.
(14:43):
Like we can change them.
You know, like, I'm over here.
Like, oh, my God.
It's like the worst thing ever.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
It took me years to get anormal cortisol profile and now it's
back out.
Yeah.
And oh, my God.
And I have to skip dinner tonight.
I'm going to have to text Rachel.
(15:04):
I'm so sorry, I can't makedinner tonight.
I'm in my.
Over here because mycortisol's up.
So.
But you know, it.
The best thing you can do isgo to that dinner.
The best thing I couldprobably do.
I'll.
Yeah.
Probably ask her to pick me upor I'll like, I, I think that, you
(15:25):
know, in.
And this is also.
My doctor brain wants to go immediately.
Like, what am I going to take?
Like, oh, I. I need to changethe timing of my, my, my herbal adaptogens.
Right.
I need to change the timing ofmy phosphatidylserine.
And you know, but there's alot more than that.
(15:48):
What if the fix was not just that?
What if it was actually deeperthan that?
Which is what I'm feeling intofor me is not.
Not that I need to clear myschedule and stop lifting weights
and yada yada and going hard.
Right.
It's.
What if I've got to mentallyslow down and get off the hamster
(16:10):
wheel of trying to achievesomething and get.
And get somewhere.
There's no destination likewhere you're trying to get to.
Yeah.
No death.
Right.
A coffin.
That.
That is the only place any ofus are ever heading to in life.
Like, that's the oneguaranteed thing.
(16:31):
And I'm not trying to say thatto be morbid, but it's.
It's true.
Like, what else.
I mean, you're.
What are you gonna do until then?
And it's like once you getthere, what's happening?
You know, I'm saying we're notlike, you know, nobody else.
I mean, you know, I'm sayingit's not like, like, oh, it's here
about to die.
You know, I mean, like, it's.
(16:52):
We're not.
We.
First of all, you don't knowwhen it's coming.
You don't know when it's gonna happen.
And then secondly, like you,you know, most people.
So for me, most people, youknow, I. I've been in internal medicine
and critical care and hospital medicine.
I've been privy to so manypeople's last moments.
And it's really true what theysay that people are really like,
(17:17):
what?
You know, what did I not do, right?
What, What?
Like, I should have done moreof this.
I should have done more of that.
You know, and.
You know.
Yeah, I mean, I. I get that living.
It's very gap focused.
Right.
Not gain focus.
But then at the same time,like kind of it's.
It's.
They're sad.
And I, I can empathize withthat of like, gosh, like this.
(17:38):
This was all that there was.
And this was.
And.
And it's not even all that.
This.
It's not.
Let me rephrase that.
It's not.
This was all that there was.
It's like this was it.
People are not realizing like,oh, this that was it.
I should have been like.
Like living it up.
Like that was the thing to becelebrating and living up.
(18:01):
And here I am now.
And so I've seen so much of that.
That.
That's like in my head.
So I just.
I just do so much to try toenjoy my journey.
Right.
Like life is really a journey.
And.
And it.
It.
When it's sucking.
When it's sucking.
It's really hard to say that,you know, but it's really.
(18:25):
The truth is like, you know, so.
Yeah, I mean, and I'm guilty.
I mean, I'm saying all this,but there are days where I'm guilty
of like being like, you know,either feeling sad about it.
Woe is me feeling like I'mkind of in a victim mode and all
that.
But I've done enough growthwork to get my.
Learn how to recognize it andnot let myself dwell there for too
(18:46):
long.
Yeah.
Just get myself out of it.
So.
Yeah.
So that's just my.
That's the.
The piece I think that Iwanted to share about my cortisol
story and like what'shappening when you know, at a deeper
level too, like what to consider.
(19:06):
Right.
You know, like what.
What in my life do I need tolook at that's got me in this physical
situation?
Because frequency to me,everything is frequency and form
follows free.
Like it's frequency first,then form, form follows frequency.
So like whatever your,wherever you're vibing, or whatever
your, you know, whateveryou're, you're feeling into, or whatever
(19:30):
your frequency is first, it'lleventually manifest.
And that's why, you know, backin the old days, they'll say, oh,
you'll worry yourself like astomach ulcer.
You know it's because it'strue, right?
Yep.
This is what got me so intothe work around like belief systems
and mindset and nervous systemregulation was operating clinic for
(19:54):
almost nine years.
Now when we talk about, youknow, functional medicine is really
about root cause resolution, right?
It's looking beneath thesymptom, it's looking beneath the
diagnosis to say what's goingon in the body or mind to produce
these symptoms, to producethis disease.
Which again, probably,probably to some people sounds a
(20:15):
little bit woo woo.
But that's all interconnectedand all very valid.
And there's scientificresearch to show that, you know,
that this stuff is real.
But when I look at root causefor any type of dis ease, it goes
back to three key things,which is toxins, triggers and traumas.
And what I realized reallyearly in our journey was we got really
(20:38):
good at identifying triggersand toxins and treating those things.
Right.
The traumas that we reallystruggled with.
So what trauma does is itdoesn't just impact your mind, but
it impacts your body too.
It impacts your nervous systembecause your nervous system holds
on to this stuff.
So sometimes when we havedysregulation or disease, maybe it's
(21:03):
not a result of somethingphysical or even something physiologic.
It could just be a result ofthings that happened over the course
of our lifetime, whetherthey're small traumas or big traumas,
like big T's or little T'sthat put us in a place now where
we are just dysregulated inour nervous system.
Right.
(21:23):
Issues.
And one of the things we knowis that in perimenopause and menopause,
the symptom, the system thatis most impacted is not, it is not
like your immune system, it's not.
It's your nervous system.
Which is why we see thingslike anxiety and depression.
And the suicide rate is thehighest for women age 45 to 60.
(21:44):
Like there's a lot of going onfrom a nervous system perspective
during that time.
Hormones impact the nervoussystem, the nervous system impacts
the hormones and everything else.
So yeah, it's a lot.
And we need to learn how tobetter attuned to that and better
(22:04):
regulate ourselves and bettercare for ourselves.
Because it's not.
It's not a glass of wine and abubble bath, right?
It's not.
It's not the ways we used todo it.
It's breath work and it'smindset work and it's energy work
and it's.
It sounds complicated andcomplex, but it can be super simplistic
and it can be easy stuff woveninto your day.
(22:27):
Right.
It's.
It could be a simple too.
Yeah.
Like what we were talkingabout the other day of bio intelligence.
Like your ability, your.
Your ability to.
Your capability to.
To self heal.
And really what if all it.
It.
What if most of healing couldbe that you just get so in tune with
(22:51):
your body and you just get sofamiliar and connected to yourself
and to your physical body thatyou could notice symptoms very soon
as they happen or as they're.
You could even sense whenthey're coming, when they're about
to come on.
And you could actually sensewhen burnout might happen so you
(23:14):
could stop it from getting there.
And then number two, I thinkthe second part of that was getting
your, you know, getting yourintuition, building your intuition.
So a lot of people have.
A lot of people think thatintuition is like the psychic ability,
you know, like.
(23:35):
Like that's all it is.
It's just this sixth sense.
There's.
But intuition speaks to people.
It's.
It's different for everyperson is what I've realized.
And it can speak to you indifferent ways.
And I know for me a lot of myintuition comes through like my body,
right.
Not.
(23:55):
It's more than just like youknow, a spidey sense, my spidey senses
or my sixth sense, you know,that I've developed over the years
as you know, being a doctor,being around so many different energies
and all that.
But like it's.
It's for me and it's.
It's so fast and it's sovisceral for me and that I.
(24:16):
If I'm not eating clean, ifI'm like not really taking care of
myself, if I'm reallyneglecting my physical health, then
I. I'll miss it.
I'll miss the messages, right?
I'll miss my intuition.
And that's really importantfor me.
Yeah, I call that removing the noise.
Like that's what we do a lotof times early in our programs is
(24:41):
how do we remove the noise sothat we can better tune into what
our bodies are telling us.
And maybe that's why I don'tbother testing my cortisol, because
I know.
I know where it is.
It's not a good place.
I work on it every single day.
Right.
I work on it every morning,getting out and getting morning sun
and shutting down at nightappropriately and doing my breathing
(25:03):
and doing my meditation andexercise and connection with my friends.
And like, there's this isstuff I'm super conscious of because
I'm attuned.
I'm in tune with what's goingon and.
Right.
I think we need to help womentrust themselves more.
Yeah, yeah.
Like trust your.
I mean, there's a thing abouttrusting your gut.
(25:25):
Like having a gut feeling.
You know, I've.
I've called so many heartattacks on people from a gut feeling,
you know, of like, just, oof,this, like getting a feeling in my
body that this doesn't feel right.
And I'm like, oh, okay.
So, yeah, that person had a stroke.
Like, we didn't realize it.
It was very subtle.
It wasn't like, you know, anapparent, like, it was like a real,
(25:49):
like, subtle.
And so I think that a lot ofthings, I mean, you can sense into
so many things in life and.
And just being in tune withyour own connection, right.
To source and being in tunewith your own body is just going
to be.
That's the.
Cleaning that up is numberone, because that's the relationship
(26:10):
to yourself.
For sure.
So.
Good talk.
Yeah.
I didn't.
I forgot I had the book infront of me and I didn't even.
I didn't go into it.
Of what it says about whathappens when you have adrenal issues.
Let me look it up.
Love this book.
It's called My Words Made Flesh.
(26:33):
Endocrine Gland.
So good.
It kind of gives you an underlying.
It gives you a clue into,like, the underlying things that
you may have been feeling offabout, you know, like.
Let's see.
So when you have issues withadrenal glands, it could mean that
(26:54):
there's challenges withsadness about some loss that is stressing
you.
Withholding and hiding griefor feeling you always feel without.
Interesting feeling.
Yeah.
Feeling that you always feel without.
I could see.
I could see that.
Yeah.
See that.
(27:15):
And you know what'sinteresting is I had a lot.
I was processing a lot ofgrief over the summer.
Yep.
And then I did this test.
So it could be.
It could be picking up on whatI was going through in the last few
months.
So I'm thinking, right, like,because to your point, labs change.
Right.
(27:35):
Like, I wonder if you gothrough the process over the next
three months, obviously thingshave settled down a little bit.
They're back on track, you'refeeling better.
I mean, not only were youdealing with some turmoil in your
relationship, but we were alsolaunching a podcast, launching two
or three businesses.
Like had a major launch eventdown in Jacksonville.
(27:57):
Like, there was a lot going onover the last three to four months.
Yeah, it's going to change athousand percent.
I just tested somebody that Iwas looking for.
Pseudo Cushing syndrome,cyclical pseudo Cushing, which is
so rare.
But I found it and like,you're welcome.
Anyway, so I, but the, the it can.
(28:19):
I tested, I think a few weeks apart.
And even testing a few weeksapart, it's, it's, it's, it can be
different.
So that's why I don't reallyhang my hat on like, oh my God, this
is the way it is.
Like, I think people should beaware too of like sometimes how fickle
labs can be and, and howpowerful too, that we are, that we
can actually change them.
(28:39):
So.
Yeah, so what I love aboutthis book is that it also gives you
the decrees or the, the kindof the thing, the opposite frequency
to turn that around of whatyou were going through.
So the decrees would besomething like, these are like maybe
affirmations that I would sayto myself.
Right.
(29:00):
So I imagine my success beforetaking action.
I give myself permission toenjoy my joy fully and I touch all
sadness and grief.
Grief with love.
Yeah, I love that.
Yeah, yeah, that's definitelyrelevant for me.
(29:24):
Yeah, for sure.
This book is always on point.
Anyway, all right, so in threemonths we shall see what my question
everyone posted.
We'll keep talk about accountability.
Yeah.
All right, y', all, until the next.
(29:45):
One, I'll flame no shame.
We hope you love the show asmuch as we love doing it.
To learn more and join themodern menopause movement, visit
modern menno.com that's modern.
Menno.Com because thisconversation doesn't end here.
(30:09):
And until next time, keepquestioning the smoke and mirrors.
And remember, you're notlosing your mind.
You're finding your truth.
And a quick but boringdisclaimer just necessary to say
anything discussed in thispodcast is for educational and informational
purposes only and solely as aself help tool for your own use.
We are not providing medical,psychological or nutrition therapy
advice.
(30:29):
You should not use thisinformation to diagnose or treat
any health problems orillnesses without consulting your
own medical practitioner.
Always seek the advice of yourown medical practitioner and or mental
health provider about yourspecific health situation.
Even though I am a doctor andphysician, I am not your physician,
and this podcast does notcreate a doctor patient relationship.
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