December 18, 2024 • 11 mins
In this episode of Social BJJ, Dave tackles a controversial topic: Performance Enhancing Drugs (PEDs) in jiu-jitsu. He explores the pros and cons, ethical considerations, and real-world implications of PED use at the highest levels of competition.
From openly admitted users to clean athletes, Dave provides a balanced perspective, discussing:
- How PEDs aid recovery and enable more training time.
- The impact on jiu-jitsu’s competitive landscape and fairness.
- The role of leagues, testing policies, and athlete transparency.
- Parental responsibility versus athlete influence on youth.
- The cultural and ethical considerations of autonomy in sports.
Key Topics:
- The role of PEDs in enhancing recovery versus improving technique.
- How leagues like ADCC, CJJ, and PGL approach drug testing.
- Cannabis as a potential performance enhancer for creativity in rolling.
- Ethical questions surrounding PED use and its influence on young athletes.
- The balance between personal choice, legality, and responsibility.
Listener Engagement:
- Should PEDs be allowed in jiu-jitsu? Share your thoughts in the comments!
- Do you think leagues need stricter testing or more transparency? Let us know!
Closing Notes: This is a heated debate, and Dave invites you to share your opinions and join the discussion. Catch the next episode for more thought-provoking conversations in the world of jiu-jitsu.
Follow & Subscribe:
- Leave a comment and share the episode.
- Follow Social BJJ for more content like this!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome back to Social BJJ with your boy Dave. We're gonna be talking about some
(00:05):
drug use today. You know, PEDs basically. Performance Enhancing Drugs. Should they
be allowed? Should they not be allowed? What's my take on it for the most part?
Pros and cons to each. You know, so let's dive in. So PEDs, should they be used at
the highest level? I mean we got we got the the highest competitors, you know,
(00:25):
Gordon Ryan, Craig Jones. They're openly admitting to using it. And then we got
Mikey Musumeche. I think that's how you say his last name. Who is basically
saying, or Musumeche, I'm not sure, who's basically saying he's clean and we don't
know that for a fact. But that's what he's claiming and that's what he's saying.
And I think most of the athletes who do jujitsu, most of the people who do
(00:50):
jujitsu around the world are clean. But again, we're talking about the
competitors. We're talking about the top of the top. The ones who, you know, put
their bodies on the line to be the best. They're in a gym 24-7 breaking their
bodies down. They need a way to recover. They need a way to to recoup that
energy, that muscle, everything. And so some of them use steroids to better
(01:15):
recover faster. Now is steroid use gonna make you better on the mats
per se? No. No, it's not gonna make you more technical. It's not gonna make you
more savvy. But what it will do is allow you to have more time on the mats which
will allow you to be more technical and more savvy on the mat. So I mean, is it
(01:38):
directly correlating with you being a better at jujitsu? No. But is it
indirectly and is it very powerful in direction? Absolutely. Right, because if
I'm able to spend, let's say, if I'm able to spend, you know, two hours on
the mats, just normal, just normal me without anything. And I probably can only
(02:02):
do that realistically once a day, maybe once every other day. And my body's gonna
be really feeling it. And then macing in lifting, yeah, I'm not gonna be able to
train every day. But you throw some roids in there, maybe I could do two a days and
lift and I'm ready to go. You know, triple my testosterone or whatever. I don't know
the percentages. So if you're like, hey, no, the percentage of testosterone per
(02:28):
body fat and blood count is actually... then yeah, I mean, this probably, this
conversation is probably not for you. Go to the, you know, Discovery Channel or
something. But if you're just average person that, you know, is just thinking
about it, it definitely does help. It definitely does help. There's no way
around it. But I mean, if you're gonna make the case that, you know, it should be
(02:49):
banned, it should not be allowed, then you got to talk about the leagues that, you
know, basically allow it. You know, you got Fight Pass, you know, UFC. I don't...
last time I checked, they're not testing, right? You got Polaris, they're not testing.
You got, you got ADCC, definitely not testing. CJI, not testing. They actually
said that they want you on voids, CJI. And I know ADCC in the back, I believe,
(03:10):
I've been told, or not personally, I just heard it, that they have IVs ready for,
ready for the athletes, right? To basically replenish. And so, you look at
all of this, and I mean, IVs is not necessarily a bad thing, right? You take
IVs and that doesn't mean that it's steroids. So let me just clarify that. But
(03:32):
basically, they don't care. Like, they don't care what you're taking, what
you're doing, and that's what I meant by it. But then I think there's like a
PGL League. I think it's run by Brandon. He's a 10 Planet guy. I don't know how to
say his last name. But yeah, I'm pretty sure they're a clean league. I don't know
(03:54):
how clean you can be, you know? I don't know what their testing is like. I don't
know if they got USADA, like, calling up athletes three o'clock in the morning,
meeting them at random places and checking their piss. I don't know if
they're doing that, right? If they are, amazing. Amazing. Amazing. But if they
aren't, then how do we know that the athletes aren't just not really smart in
(04:17):
doing like a Lance Armstrong and just like cheating? We don't know. We don't
know. And that's why I'm very, like, thankful for at least, you know, Gordon
and Craig. And they're just being open and honest about it. Like, yeah, this is
what I'm doing. This is what I'm taking. And, you know, they're like, it's not a
big deal. This is what we're doing. Because it's legal. And, you know, that's
(04:39):
fair. But, you know, no one's actually really talking about, you know, cannabis,
marijuana. Nobody's talking about that drug and how beneficial that can be, too.
Now, is it gonna allow you to, like, recover much faster like steroids would?
Absolutely not. But will it allow you, maybe perhaps when you're in the role, I
heard people talk about, you know, rolling high unlocks different pathways.
(05:02):
They're a little bit more creative. They're seeing things much better.
They're flowing much, much better. So it kind of seems like it's a performing
enhancing drug. Doesn't, like, what you think so? Should that be banned? Are we,
are we, are we doing, you know, drug tests for recreational drugs that are 100%
legal in certain states? You know, are we doing that? Like, how far with the testing
(05:23):
are we gonna go? And maybe we are. Maybe we're gonna say, you know what, you
can't do anything absolutely whatsoever. But, like, when you look at it,
jujitsu doesn't make that much money where you can start regularly and
telling guys what they can and cannot do with their body in their off time. I
mean, sure, yeah, the top of the top. You got Nicky Robb winning a million dollars.
Okay, cool. Right, but how many tournaments are there like that? There's
(05:48):
just one. That was the first one in history. Usually these guys are going
from seminar to seminar, you know, bouncing around, shooting instructionals,
traveling so much. Like, you're traveling and then they're doing jujitsu and so
many guys, like, you go to a seminar, they teach a seminar. So many people want to
roll with them. So many people want to beat them. So they're putting their
(06:08):
bodies on the line so much. How are they supposed to naturally recover and make a
living at the same time? Like, so I kind of have a heart for these guys. Like, yeah,
like, you know, Mikey, he signs his contract with, with one championship and
they ended up like kind of doing them dirty. So now he's at UFC. But, you know,
he's just there. He's not really doing anything else. He's maybe he's doing a
(06:31):
podcast here and there. But he, I haven't heard of a, maybe he is, but I haven't
heard of like, oh, here's a Mikey seminar coming up in your area. Like, I haven't,
I haven't heard about that. And I'm in a pretty, I'm in a pretty dense area and,
you know, New York, near New York, you know, that tri-state area. So, I mean,
(06:51):
everybody has come over here, you know, the, and the best guys are literally from
this area. So, you know, there's, there's going to be people who, who pop by and
do seminars over here. So I haven't heard him doing that. So he can be really
critical of people. And that's fine. That's fine. He has his opinion, just like
(07:14):
I'm sure you're listening to it right now. You guys have your opinion. Maybe you
disagree. Maybe you think it's, it should be banned because of the influence that
it's going to have on the youth, on the, on these kids that are coming up in
jujitsu. These kids that are 13, 14, 15, these monsters who have been doing
jujitsu since they was in diapers, since they were six, since it was five.
Obviously, I know diapers is like two, one, but you know, for those who are, hey,
(07:38):
you know, you know, diapers, you're only, you're only, you should be only two, three
years old after that. You shouldn't be in diapers anymore. My son, my son was out
of diapers. Yeah, we get it. But you know, those killers who, who are young and
they're looking at the best guys, they're seeing what they're doing, hearing what
(07:59):
they're saying and what they're taking. And they're like, you know what, if I
want to be at the best, maybe I got to take this too. You know, I want to be able
to train consistently. You know, I want to quit school and I want to dedicate all
my time to jujitsu as well. What I would say to that is, yeah, that's bad. There's
there, there, you know, that's really bad. But at the same time, these people have
(08:22):
parents or guardians. When are we going to start putting the onus on these, on
these adults, these parents to raise their children like they're supposed to
do? Right, we got to stop placing blame on, you know, people who are living their
lives and doing what they feel like is the best for themselves. I mean, maybe I'm
(08:42):
just so American that I believe in the right of autonomy and the right for
people to do the things that they want to do with their bodies. Right, they're
doing jujitsu, which is breaking bones, which is breaking ligaments, choking
people unconscious, practicing basically killing people and other people
surrendering. That's the art that we we do. And we say, Oh, yes, a general art.
(09:06):
No, we're practicing how to murder someone, how to cripple someone on a
daily basis. That's what we do. And yet, we're going to say, Oh, no, he can't, he
got to be a role model. He got to be an uplifting citizen for society. He got to
(09:27):
he got to watch out for the kids. No, where are their parents? Where are their
parents having the conversations about them, seeing what they're interested in
into in jujitsu, having a conversation with them, weighing the pros and cons,
being a good parent. Don't don't blame the athletes. Don't blame the athletes.
(09:50):
And now for those who don't have parents don't have guardians. Okay, it's a
little bit trickier for there. But again, you can't put the onus on somebody. We
all got to be responsible for our own decisions at one point in time. We all
do. It sucks to say, but I can't blame somebody else for the crimes that I
commit. I'm the one who goes to jail for them.
(10:13):
I'm the one who goes to jail. I'm the one who has to face the judge at the end of
the day for the things that I do.
And we got to start or stop rather, having this victim mentality for people.
So should people be able to use drugs as long as they're legal in competition?
Absolutely. The moment becomes illegal, they should stop using it. They should
(10:34):
not use it. But if it's legal, or a lack of legality, it's just not illegal. Then
who are we to say that they can't do it?
Who are we?
I'm Dave. And this is Social BJJ. Let me know what you think in the comments. I'll
(10:59):
see you tomorrow. Peace.
Welcome back to Social BJJ with your boy Dave. We're gonna be talking about some
(00:05):
drug use today. You know, PEDs basically. Performance Enhancing Drugs. Should they
be allowed? Should they not be allowed? What's my take on it for the most part?
Pros and cons to each. You know, so let's dive in. So PEDs, should they be used at
the highest level? I mean we got we got the the highest competitors, you know,
(00:25):
Gordon Ryan, Craig Jones. They're openly admitting to using it. And then we got
Mikey Musumeche. I think that's how you say his last name. Who is basically
saying, or Musumeche, I'm not sure, who's basically saying he's clean and we don't
know that for a fact. But that's what he's claiming and that's what he's saying.
And I think most of the athletes who do jujitsu, most of the people who do
(00:50):
jujitsu around the world are clean. But again, we're talking about the
competitors. We're talking about the top of the top. The ones who, you know, put
their bodies on the line to be the best. They're in a gym 24-7 breaking their
bodies down. They need a way to recover. They need a way to to recoup that
energy, that muscle, everything. And so some of them use steroids to better
(01:15):
recover faster. Now is steroid use gonna make you better on the mats
per se? No. No, it's not gonna make you more technical. It's not gonna make you
more savvy. But what it will do is allow you to have more time on the mats which
will allow you to be more technical and more savvy on the mat. So I mean, is it
(01:38):
directly correlating with you being a better at jujitsu? No. But is it
indirectly and is it very powerful in direction? Absolutely. Right, because if
I'm able to spend, let's say, if I'm able to spend, you know, two hours on
the mats, just normal, just normal me without anything. And I probably can only
(02:02):
do that realistically once a day, maybe once every other day. And my body's gonna
be really feeling it. And then macing in lifting, yeah, I'm not gonna be able to
train every day. But you throw some roids in there, maybe I could do two a days and
lift and I'm ready to go. You know, triple my testosterone or whatever. I don't know
the percentages. So if you're like, hey, no, the percentage of testosterone per
(02:28):
body fat and blood count is actually... then yeah, I mean, this probably, this
conversation is probably not for you. Go to the, you know, Discovery Channel or
something. But if you're just average person that, you know, is just thinking
about it, it definitely does help. It definitely does help. There's no way
around it. But I mean, if you're gonna make the case that, you know, it should be
(02:49):
banned, it should not be allowed, then you got to talk about the leagues that, you
know, basically allow it. You know, you got Fight Pass, you know, UFC. I don't...
last time I checked, they're not testing, right? You got Polaris, they're not testing.
You got, you got ADCC, definitely not testing. CJI, not testing. They actually
said that they want you on voids, CJI. And I know ADCC in the back, I believe,
(03:10):
I've been told, or not personally, I just heard it, that they have IVs ready for,
ready for the athletes, right? To basically replenish. And so, you look at
all of this, and I mean, IVs is not necessarily a bad thing, right? You take
IVs and that doesn't mean that it's steroids. So let me just clarify that. But
(03:32):
basically, they don't care. Like, they don't care what you're taking, what
you're doing, and that's what I meant by it. But then I think there's like a
PGL League. I think it's run by Brandon. He's a 10 Planet guy. I don't know how to
say his last name. But yeah, I'm pretty sure they're a clean league. I don't know
(03:54):
how clean you can be, you know? I don't know what their testing is like. I don't
know if they got USADA, like, calling up athletes three o'clock in the morning,
meeting them at random places and checking their piss. I don't know if
they're doing that, right? If they are, amazing. Amazing. Amazing. But if they
aren't, then how do we know that the athletes aren't just not really smart in
(04:17):
doing like a Lance Armstrong and just like cheating? We don't know. We don't
know. And that's why I'm very, like, thankful for at least, you know, Gordon
and Craig. And they're just being open and honest about it. Like, yeah, this is
what I'm doing. This is what I'm taking. And, you know, they're like, it's not a
big deal. This is what we're doing. Because it's legal. And, you know, that's
(04:39):
fair. But, you know, no one's actually really talking about, you know, cannabis,
marijuana. Nobody's talking about that drug and how beneficial that can be, too.
Now, is it gonna allow you to, like, recover much faster like steroids would?
Absolutely not. But will it allow you, maybe perhaps when you're in the role, I
heard people talk about, you know, rolling high unlocks different pathways.
(05:02):
They're a little bit more creative. They're seeing things much better.
They're flowing much, much better. So it kind of seems like it's a performing
enhancing drug. Doesn't, like, what you think so? Should that be banned? Are we,
are we, are we doing, you know, drug tests for recreational drugs that are 100%
legal in certain states? You know, are we doing that? Like, how far with the testing
(05:23):
are we gonna go? And maybe we are. Maybe we're gonna say, you know what, you
can't do anything absolutely whatsoever. But, like, when you look at it,
jujitsu doesn't make that much money where you can start regularly and
telling guys what they can and cannot do with their body in their off time. I
mean, sure, yeah, the top of the top. You got Nicky Robb winning a million dollars.
Okay, cool. Right, but how many tournaments are there like that? There's
(05:48):
just one. That was the first one in history. Usually these guys are going
from seminar to seminar, you know, bouncing around, shooting instructionals,
traveling so much. Like, you're traveling and then they're doing jujitsu and so
many guys, like, you go to a seminar, they teach a seminar. So many people want to
roll with them. So many people want to beat them. So they're putting their
(06:08):
bodies on the line so much. How are they supposed to naturally recover and make a
living at the same time? Like, so I kind of have a heart for these guys. Like, yeah,
like, you know, Mikey, he signs his contract with, with one championship and
they ended up like kind of doing them dirty. So now he's at UFC. But, you know,
he's just there. He's not really doing anything else. He's maybe he's doing a
(06:31):
podcast here and there. But he, I haven't heard of a, maybe he is, but I haven't
heard of like, oh, here's a Mikey seminar coming up in your area. Like, I haven't,
I haven't heard about that. And I'm in a pretty, I'm in a pretty dense area and,
you know, New York, near New York, you know, that tri-state area. So, I mean,
(06:51):
everybody has come over here, you know, the, and the best guys are literally from
this area. So, you know, there's, there's going to be people who, who pop by and
do seminars over here. So I haven't heard him doing that. So he can be really
critical of people. And that's fine. That's fine. He has his opinion, just like
(07:14):
I'm sure you're listening to it right now. You guys have your opinion. Maybe you
disagree. Maybe you think it's, it should be banned because of the influence that
it's going to have on the youth, on the, on these kids that are coming up in
jujitsu. These kids that are 13, 14, 15, these monsters who have been doing
jujitsu since they was in diapers, since they were six, since it was five.
Obviously, I know diapers is like two, one, but you know, for those who are, hey,
(07:38):
you know, you know, diapers, you're only, you're only, you should be only two, three
years old after that. You shouldn't be in diapers anymore. My son, my son was out
of diapers. Yeah, we get it. But you know, those killers who, who are young and
they're looking at the best guys, they're seeing what they're doing, hearing what
(07:59):
they're saying and what they're taking. And they're like, you know what, if I
want to be at the best, maybe I got to take this too. You know, I want to be able
to train consistently. You know, I want to quit school and I want to dedicate all
my time to jujitsu as well. What I would say to that is, yeah, that's bad. There's
there, there, you know, that's really bad. But at the same time, these people have
(08:22):
parents or guardians. When are we going to start putting the onus on these, on
these adults, these parents to raise their children like they're supposed to
do? Right, we got to stop placing blame on, you know, people who are living their
lives and doing what they feel like is the best for themselves. I mean, maybe I'm
(08:42):
just so American that I believe in the right of autonomy and the right for
people to do the things that they want to do with their bodies. Right, they're
doing jujitsu, which is breaking bones, which is breaking ligaments, choking
people unconscious, practicing basically killing people and other people
surrendering. That's the art that we we do. And we say, Oh, yes, a general art.
(09:06):
No, we're practicing how to murder someone, how to cripple someone on a
daily basis. That's what we do. And yet, we're going to say, Oh, no, he can't, he
got to be a role model. He got to be an uplifting citizen for society. He got to
(09:27):
he got to watch out for the kids. No, where are their parents? Where are their
parents having the conversations about them, seeing what they're interested in
into in jujitsu, having a conversation with them, weighing the pros and cons,
being a good parent. Don't don't blame the athletes. Don't blame the athletes.
(09:50):
And now for those who don't have parents don't have guardians. Okay, it's a
little bit trickier for there. But again, you can't put the onus on somebody. We
all got to be responsible for our own decisions at one point in time. We all
do. It sucks to say, but I can't blame somebody else for the crimes that I
commit. I'm the one who goes to jail for them.
(10:13):
I'm the one who goes to jail. I'm the one who has to face the judge at the end of
the day for the things that I do.
And we got to start or stop rather, having this victim mentality for people.
So should people be able to use drugs as long as they're legal in competition?
Absolutely. The moment becomes illegal, they should stop using it. They should
(10:34):
not use it. But if it's legal, or a lack of legality, it's just not illegal. Then
who are we to say that they can't do it?
Who are we?
I'm Dave. And this is Social BJJ. Let me know what you think in the comments. I'll
(10:59):
see you tomorrow. Peace.
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