February 11, 2025 • 34 mins
Today John and Shari go through questions you asked with Alicia! Questions cover getting engaged, getting married, having babies, how to handle disagreements, running the business together, and travel tips.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
All right, we are live.
(00:02):
Yay.
Welcome back to Spill with Spearman.
We are welcoming John and Sherry back to the podcast.
And today we have some Q&A questions
we collected from Instagram.
So I'm going to just start firing them off for you guys.
Let's just start right out the gate with,
(00:23):
how do you and John handle conflict?
My husband and I really struggle when we argue.
That's a good one.
So we've gotten better at it.
Is that a fair statement?
I think so.
I mean, we've been together.
Shame we're not filming this, because Sherry's eyes
said a volume when I said, I think we're better at it.
(00:44):
Well, I met John when I was 27.
And I'm 48 now.
So we've been together 21 years.
We have.
Our anniversary's coming up.
Yes, we better be getting better at it.
We're still together.
Yes.
So I think that both John and I are type A personalities.
Would you agree?
(01:05):
Yes.
And we're also both very high strung.
Would you agree?
Yes, I agree with both of those things.
Passionate.
Yes.
Opinionated.
Opinionated is key.
So perhaps stubborn at moments.
Yeah, I think a lot of people, with some of the arguments
we've had, probably wouldn't still be together.
(01:25):
Yeah.
Would you agree?
But these are the problems.
So what's the answer?
I have a theory on the answer.
But what do you think?
Do you have a thought?
Well, I don't think it's a simple answer.
I think that for me, after I am able to say everything
I want to say in the argument, which I probably usually do,
(01:47):
I want to move on pretty quick.
Like, I want to say everything I want to say,
throw out all the insults if I'm going to insult you.
Yeah, there's usually insults.
Asshole is up there.
You're such a dick.
That's another one that comes up a lot.
I do use a lot of profanity when I argue.
I do not make personal attacks.
It's not my style.
(02:08):
I pick apart someone's logic.
So here's my theory on why we're still together
and we haven't killed each other yet.
The short answer is we have the same goals.
And life gets infinitely less complicated when, as a couple,
you have roughly the same goals.
We don't have perfectly the same goals,
(02:30):
but we have largely the same goals.
But I don't think that when we're
arguing in the heat of the moment, we're like, yeah,
we have the same goals, though.
No.
But that's how we get through it.
What happens, I think, is first of all, when we argue,
it's almost always about stupid shit.
Would you agree with that?
Yeah, I think so.
(02:50):
Right.
So we argue about stupid shit.
And then sometimes with an example.
What's an example?
Oh, god, of stuff we argue about?
Like parenting styles with kids sometimes.
I don't think that's stupid, though.
It's not stupid, but there's different approaches to it.
You're fair.
That's not stupid.
That is something we argue about.
Give a stupid argument.
A stupid argument.
(03:11):
Usually you can't even remember there's some stupid, right?
Like my driving is one that comes up, for sure.
I don't think that's stupid.
I think it's stupid.
When you drive, I don't want to get murdered.
I understand that.
But if we were to talk about the driving records of everyone
inside the family, one would have
to come to a certain statistical conclusion
that even though you may not agree with my driving style,
(03:34):
my driving style has produced a record that
I'm a horrible driver.
Is superior to the rest of the people in the family,
whether you like my driving style or not.
You do drive way more than I do.
I do.
I drive you guys everywhere.
And yet, somehow, I am constantly
questioned on my capacity as a driver, as a parking spot
(03:56):
picker, as a right all the things that drive men nuts.
I really don't think I criticize your parking spot picking,
but you do drive very aggressive,
and it makes me nervous.
Anyway, so back to the question, though.
So yeah, my answer to this is in the heat of the moment,
I'm really not thinking about, yeah, we have common goals.
Let's be done with this argument.
(04:16):
I'm thinking about, can I get everything said
that I want to say as quickly as possible in probably not
a very nice manner?
And then, can I move on?
Because I have so many things on my to-do list.
Like, wasting time being mad and arguing to me is not productive,
or it doesn't make me feel good either.
So I think that I just like to move on really quickly.
(04:38):
Have the argument, get it out, don't hold it in,
and then move on, and then get back to productive things.
And your things tend to be more like eruptions.
She tends to hold things in.
Eruptions?
A really long...
Eruptions.
Yes, they are.
So what happens is she'll hold it in.
Something's been bothering her for weeks,
and then all of a sudden, like, 87 things
that have been bothering her, they just all come out.
(05:00):
Like what?
And my style, well, hold on.
My style is I try to avoid arguments,
so I get quiet when we argue until she pushes me to a point,
and then I go from completely quiet to,
blah, blah, blah, I just like, you know, I'm like,
I push back hard.
So...
I feel like that's not necessarily true,
and we might just...
I feel like we might get an argument about how we are.
(05:22):
How we're arguing.
Because this is not accurate.
So what's not accurate?
Well, John went through a long stage
where he would actually leave the house.
Yeah, because then they wouldn't argue.
I think that's weird.
It's not weird.
It's just I don't feel like fighting.
I think it's stupid.
Anyway, I just think as a couple, you have to, like,
you know, you go into a marriage,
(05:42):
and you have to know not every day is going to be perfect.
You're going to have blowout arguments,
and at the end of the day, you just have to say you're sorry.
Sorry is key for me.
Yes.
I need a sorry.
No matter if it was your fault or my fault, I need a sorry.
And, like, I need, like, you got to forgive each other.
Right?
So you have to have an ability to put yourself in a,
(06:04):
I guess, in a mental state where once you argue,
you have to be done.
Like, you just can't keep going.
You have to say, hey, I can't keep going with this argument.
I've said everything I want to say.
You know, we are both somewhat of, you know,
somewhat of an asshole in this argument,
and let's move on now.
Yeah.
Like, it's a choice.
I do.
It's a choice to move on.
I agree with that.
We do choose to move on.
(06:25):
And I think, you know, anyway, I've said what I said,
but I think part of the reason is because we have more
important things to do.
Yeah, but I think if you were giving advice to a couple,
I would say have the argument, and then
make a conscious decision to both forgive and move
on at the same time.
Yeah, I agree.
Put it in the past.
And then focus on what's actually important.
(06:47):
Because like I said, most of the things
are not that important.
To me, it's like any other habit.
You have to practice.
Yeah, I agree with that.
And if you practice that skill, you'll
get really good at argument recovery.
That's one of the benefits of working together
is you don't have a choice.
Yeah.
So like, what happens is like when
I was working in the corporate world,
(07:10):
we would have an argument, and I would just
go to work and run away to work for 12 hours.
And it made it easier.
When you work together, you don't
have a choice because you're involved with each other 24-7.
So that's actually one of the things
I think was the best outcome of having a business together,
even though it was difficult early on in particular,
(07:30):
is it forced us to improve our communication.
It forced us to recover more quickly from arguments.
And it was a good thing.
Yeah, but it's also really easy to get in a headspace
where you have a petty party for yourself.
My husband sucks the most.
My argument's the worst.
It's like every married couple has arguments.
(07:51):
So just remember that and have your argument,
and then you're done.
And don't be, I mean, for you to say
that you're never going to have an argument again is ridiculous.
No, I know.
Everybody's going to have the next one.
We're going to have the next blow up one.
Yeah, we might have one in five minutes.
So then use the skill that you learned about recovery
for the next one.
All right, I think we beat this for that.
(08:11):
Yes.
Yeah, I think that goes into what you guys said last podcast,
is that you guys both respect that each other is
straightforward people, and you're
going to be honest with each other.
And then you guys have the same goals at the end of the day.
That's where the respect comes from.
One of the things I respect most about Sheri is her work ethic.
She's one of the hardest working people
I've ever met in my life.
And I really respect that about her.
(08:32):
No one wants to be in a relationship
with someone who you feel like the other person
in the relationship just isn't putting in the effort.
And I think that's one thing about the two of us,
is whether it's the business, the relationship, the kids,
the house, whatever, the two of us contribute to everything.
We are not mail it in kind of people.
And I think that's a core value that we both hold
(08:53):
that helps us a lot.
I agree.
I will add to that.
I got a DM from someone the other day
when I pointed out that you hadn't unpacked
your suitcase for five weeks.
And that I'm the most patient wife.
And I was thinking, oh, I like that comment first.
But then I was thinking, well, the reason
is that I haven't gotten his case,
is he's doing 5,000 other things.
(09:14):
It's not like he's laying in bed all day.
I mean, you're selling the house.
We're doing so many things.
Fixing cars that have been damaged.
Life is busy.
And you're always doing something.
So yeah, I try to pick my battles.
Me too.
And the suitcase just on the floor.
It's inconsequential.
Yeah, it's inconsequential.
It is what it is.
(09:35):
So kind of on a similar note, maybe,
what is the biggest challenge in your marriage?
I don't know.
What do you think?
I don't.
I mean, in the past, I would have
said there were challenges.
I don't think there's a biggest challenge.
I think that, I mean, I think raising kids is challenging.
(09:58):
Yeah, I think raising kids is challenging.
I honestly, this will sound super corny,
but I actually don't think there's
a ton of challenges either in the marriage right now.
She's my best friend.
There's no one else I would rather spend time with.
When I travel without her, I miss her.
And we go everywhere together.
(10:18):
We do everything together.
We're going to the Sun's Game together tonight.
And we're going to sit together because I actually
like sitting with my wife.
That helps a lot.
Now, I will joke about the fact that, look,
this is a real marriage.
And she's a real wife, which means we don't always
see eye to eye and get along.
But at the end of the day, I can't imagine
doing this with anybody else.
(10:39):
So to me, if you have that belief about the person
that you're in a relationship with,
everything else is kind of easy.
I think we, though, we are at a different place
than a lot of people.
And when I look back like 20 years ago, when we had no dough,
we were broke.
And John was married before me.
(11:02):
So there was an ex-wife situation,
which we can say for a different episode.
But that was really, really challenging.
So I think the financial.
Building a business was hard.
Yeah, starting the business was hard.
We're lucky that we're in a place we're at right now
where we're financially stable.
I would say fortunate, not lucky.
I mean, when the Harvard.
(11:23):
Did I say lucky?
You did.
And when the Harvard and Rex were at midnight sleeping
on the floor of the warehouse, that wasn't luck.
We worked our asses off.
Yeah, I agree.
And so, but to your point, it was a lot harder then.
Those are challenges.
Those are real challenges.
Yeah, when you don't have enough cash
(11:43):
to figure out how you're going to pay the bill, that's hard.
And I think a lot of people have been through that
and lived through that on a daily basis.
When money is difficult, marriage becomes a lot harder.
And so getting on the same page with money issues is a big one.
Yeah, I honestly, lately, I've heard so many podcasts talking
(12:05):
about how money's not everything, this and that.
And I just completely disagree.
I think when you have money and you're financially stable,
everything becomes ultimately easier, even
spending time together.
When you don't have any money, you can't even
spend time together.
You're all working different hours, right?
You can't afford to go to a restaurant, right?
(12:25):
Yeah, look, I think I understand the argument for money
isn't everything, which is that your mindset needs to be not
everything is life or death, right, which I get.
But I also get the fact that when something happens,
if there's an illness or if there's a car accident
or there's some appliance breaks in your house
(12:48):
and you don't have the money to fix it, that's hard.
And so getting to a point where those things don't put
meaningful stress in your life, I
think there's real value in that.
But I do applaud the people who can live their lives
like kind of in a very minimalistic way
(13:13):
and kind of minimalize that stuff.
I think that it's a great skill.
But I agree, it gets a lot easier
if you have room to maneuver because your finances are
permit and such.
So on a more positive note, do you guys
have any family travel tips?
Yeah, don't.
(13:33):
So we didn't travel with the kids when they were little
because we had this equation, right,
which was if the misery of the travel
was greater than the joy of the trip,
maybe we should just wait.
And so we didn't really start traveling internationally
with the kids until they could walk around the city
(13:55):
on their own.
We didn't do like the stroller in the city kind of thing.
And I see plenty of people who do it and I applaud them.
But that wasn't us.
So our first tip is wait until the kids are a little older
and they can actually enjoy it and be independent.
And for us, that was around eight, nine years old.
Yeah, well, I mean, look, we did some beach vacations
when the kids were little.
(14:16):
When they had kids clubs.
Yeah, I swear by a great resort in Mexico
with a really great kids club.
That way you drop them off at 8.30, you go to the pool,
you can have a couple of cocktails.
And then they're doing activities with other kids
all day and then you pick them up at about 3.30
and spend the evening with them.
Yeah, and then you go to dinner with them or whatever.
Yeah, so I like a kids club.
(14:38):
If your kids are of age, I think most kids clubs
start around two, two and a half.
And I just like Mexico.
But look, in general, we didn't even try going overseas
with them when they were little, not necessarily
because they were little, but because we had no money.
So like, I mean, if I would have had a ton of money,
I would have just brought a, hired a nanny to come with me.
(14:59):
That's actually one thing I'm proud of.
We never, never had a nanny.
Well, again, we had no money.
No, that's not true.
Like once we got the business rolling, we could have,
but we chose not to.
We actually built the business and our lifestyle
around raising our kids.
And we've talked about this in the past,
is that like, we didn't want a nanny
because we wanted to raise our kids.
We like, we-
No judgment though.
(15:20):
I mean, if you want to, if you have a nanny, right?
No, I have plenty of friends who have more than one nanny.
And you know, it works for some people.
And there's advantages, like there's certain trips.
Like there's a trip this year that we want to take
that we're not going to take because the kids are in school.
And maybe if we had a nanny, we would take that trip.
But honestly, we got three and a half years left
with the kids in the house.
(15:40):
And I want to try to enjoy every moment of that
as humanly possible.
Yeah, I don't know if we answered the question
of travel tips.
Yeah, it's just, start later, make sure that they're mobile.
And before that, take them to a kids club.
Those are the tips.
And obviously we've talked about this a million times.
We do everything with American Express Points.
(16:02):
So get really good at maximizing points,
particularly if you have your own business.
So next question is, finish going into your early years
together, getting married, having the kids,
and then starting to work together.
Well, multiple questions in one.
That's a lot.
There is a lot.
(16:22):
So we can start with one thing.
So when we first met, what did we first talk about?
Football.
Right, and how am I programmed in your phone?
As Eagles.
Right, the Eagles won the Super Bowl, but I snuck that in.
I set that up.
So that was total setup.
Yeah, so I was living in Las Vegas when I met John,
(16:42):
and John was in Vegas for a conference,
and he was working for a mortgage company at the time.
And we met at a bar at the Bellagio,
and just exchanged numbers, really.
Talked a little bit about football,
exchanged numbers, would you agree?
Yes, there's a little bit more detail,
(17:03):
which I think is more colorful.
So she put me in the phone as Eagles
because I told her that if she gave me her number,
I would call her, and the next time
that the Eagles and the Vikings play,
I would fly her out to Philadelphia
for the Eagles-Vikings game.
And she told me, and I quote, you are full of shit.
(17:23):
So it unbeknownst to me, about 30 days later,
I came back for another conference to Vegas,
and I was gonna be there almost two weeks.
And I didn't call her, text her the first day.
I texted her the second day
because I didn't want to appear too anxious.
(17:44):
Like I would have even known.
I understand, but this was what was going through my head.
And so I texted her on that second day and said,
hey, you wanna meet for a drink?
And we met for a drink,
and we have literally talked every single day since.
I should have asked when you texted me,
is this the first day you're here or the second day?
Yeah, you should have.
But we've literally talked every day since.
(18:08):
Pretty much.
Yeah, we went straight to,
we talked about living together in San Jose
and other things before.
But yeah, and for me, it was very quick.
I knew right away that I wanted to be with her.
So John was living in New Jersey.
Did you say that?
Well, I talked about Philadelphia.
(18:28):
Okay, so John was living in Southern New Jersey.
I was in Las Vegas,
so we long distance dated for about six months, I would say.
Then he got a job offer in San Jose, California,
and decided to take it working for a motorcycle company.
And shortly after that,
(18:48):
I moved out to San Jose, California with him.
We moved in together.
I, at the time, had,
well, I had just purchased a house in Vegas
probably nine months earlier.
So I sold my house in Vegas.
It was at the top of the job market.
It was at the peak of the housing market.
(19:09):
So I sold my house.
I made like 100 grand of my house really, really quick,
which was huge amount of money for me back then, right?
And yeah, I just bet it all and moved in with him.
Well, there's a little bit more to that story too.
So at the time, the market was going crazy
and everyone was buying houses.
(19:29):
What year was this?
So this was- 2004.
2004, yeah.
And so I was like, you should sell that house
because you've crushed it
and I'm worried about this market.
And remember, I spent the first 20 years of my career
in the mortgage and real estate market.
And her sister at the time was a real estate agent
(19:50):
and she sold it and literally she closed
almost within 30 days of the peak of the Las Vegas market.
Las Vegas market was one of the first markets to collapse.
And it took over 10 years for that house
to get back to the price that she sold it for.
True.
So that was, that'll play into future episodes
(20:11):
about house hunting and why I have a certain mentality
that I do.
But that, so that was all true.
And so she made a very nice profit very quickly
in less than a year on that house.
Yes.
And then the next part of the question is getting married.
Oh gosh.
You wanna tell that story?
(20:31):
That's a hard one.
I mean, John, okay, I'll start with this
because I'll defend him a little bit.
He was married before I was not.
It was my first marriage, his second.
He dragged his feet.
I mean, it was four years and ultimately it came down
to an ultimatum in my opinion.
It was, and I can remember exactly where I was.
(20:54):
And well actually there was an ultimatum
but then there was a decision.
She took action.
And this is actually another thing I appreciate about her.
I can still remember exactly where I was.
I was working in New York City at 45 Rockefeller Center,
which is the big building with the Atlas statue
in front of it.
And I was in the elevator going down to lunch
(21:14):
with two of my colleagues who were hysterical guys.
Anyway, very funny guys.
And Sherry calls me and says, I'm planning a wedding.
We're going to Belize.
And she says, Kelly's gonna do everything.
And all you have to do is show up.
My sister.
My sister was a wedding planner in Belize at the time.
(21:36):
And to which I said, okay, I'm going to lunch.
And I went to lunch and she planned the wedding
and it was awesome.
And we got married.
So I actually appreciated her just taking the action.
So it is in the terms of the most romantic of nuptials,
(21:56):
it was about as far from romantic as it could possibly be.
John was a zero.
I was a zero on.
Zero out of 10 for romance.
Yeah, zero out of 10 for romance.
It was purely, she just said, hey, we're getting married.
I'm gonna plan everything.
All you have to do is show up.
I said, okay, I'm going to lunch.
But don't you feel like there was some conversation
that like if you're not marrying me, I'm out.
I feel like there was some of that.
(22:17):
There was like 20 of those before that.
Right, but the actual seminal moment was you called me
and told me, you weren't asking me anymore.
You told me we were getting married.
My feeling on this, and this is like pre social media days,
like there was no chatter about how long should you wait
before you get a marriage proposal.
(22:37):
But look, we met when I was 27.
Was I 30 or 31?
Well.
I think I was 31.
I think I had just turned 31 when I told you this.
Well, it was 17 years ago because it's gonna be.
So it was 31?
So on February 21st, this is our 17th wedding anniversary.
I think I told you around October
that we were getting married.
(22:57):
So you were 31.
Okay, so wait.
Or I guess.
I just turned 31, yeah.
Yes, I agree.
So I just turned 31.
I'm pretty sure it was probably like around October.
We ended up getting married in February.
But that's four years that I put in.
And I'm just like, yeah, I'm not gonna hang around
much longer because I knew I wanted kids.
(23:17):
So I was like, I have to get like, the marriage to me,
because I've never been like a bride, like a bride,
like a girly bride.
Like I wanna design my whole wedding
because we obviously we eloped.
So I didn't care about that.
I didn't care about the wedding.
I just wanted to have kids.
And I wasn't, I didn't, to me it was important
to be married before I had kids.
(23:38):
So yeah, and I was ready to have kids.
So yeah, I told him we're getting married
and I wanted to see how he would respond.
And you responded favorably.
So we got married.
But yeah, I would say four years is enough to give a guy.
Like I think that's plenty.
Yeah, look, I agree.
(24:01):
And.
Like if he's not ready after four years,
then he's probably not gonna be ready.
So it was either marry me or I'm moving on.
Yeah, and again, I think Sherry prefaced it right.
I was just afraid to get married again.
It had nothing to do with her.
And I think she just gave me the push that I needed
because I knew I didn't wanna be without her.
(24:21):
I just wasn't terribly excited about being married again.
But I also, if I had to not be with her,
that would not have been a good outcome.
I did not want that.
And so here we are 17 years later.
Yeah.
And then the next part of the question, having the kids.
So was there a similar ultimatum there?
(24:43):
No. No.
We had kids like within 15 minutes.
Yeah, Harper was born.
We got married February 21st coming up on our 17th?
Yeah, I think she was expecting within 30 days
of being married.
What is?
No, I'm serious.
Like within the first month,
if you do the math backwards from.
Oh, I thought, okay.
No, not before, after.
(25:04):
Yes. Yeah.
So I had Harper in December.
Married in February, had Harper December 20th.
So yeah, got pregnant really,
was lucky to get her pregnant really quick.
I was very, very excited.
I couldn't wait.
We went to the REO Speedwagon, Def Leppard concert
and we learned after that, that she was actually pregnant.
(25:27):
We didn't know yet that she was actually pregnant
when we were at that concert.
Yes, that's true.
Yeah.
But yeah, no, I was thrilled.
I was so excited because I was totally ready
to be a mom at that point.
Like I didn't need to have a honeymoon phase.
I didn't need to, like I'd already been with him
for four years and then they're done that, let's have a kid.
And then Rex came 18 months,
not even quite 18 months after.
(25:49):
Yeah, and both of our kids were planned.
So no surprises.
And I got pregnant really, I was very lucky.
Wasn't quite Irish twins, but it was close.
No.
So.
So yeah, they were both planned.
How did you come up with their names?
Oh gosh, I made long lists.
I was like totally opposite in,
like I didn't care about weddings and being a bride,
(26:10):
but I totally was into the names.
So I did like long lists of names
that I would send John when he was at work
and he would usually hate all my names.
So it was just a process of elimination
where he would finally agree to something, right?
Yeah, there were things that I would like,
there were things that she would like,
but there were very few things that we both liked.
Harper was one.
Harper, we agreed to, I believe,
(26:32):
when she was, once we found out she was a girl
at 18 weeks, it was Harper.
We didn't name her middle name until she was born.
When she was born, we decided,
I think I remember we were in the hospital
and you were writing a bunch of different names down
and then we just decided, okay, Quincy, it's Quincy.
HQ, Harper Quincy.
(26:53):
That was it.
Cute.
And then the last part of that question
was starting to work together.
Did we tell that story yet?
I don't know.
Do we tell the story about, all right,
so we haven't told it, all right.
So this is a famous, one of our conversations.
One of our famous, one of our famous,
like for us, internal questions or conversations.
(27:16):
So I was doing some consulting work.
I was on the board of advisors of a company in Brooklyn
and I took a call, I was doing like an update call
on a Sunday and it was one of those days
where I looked at Sherry kind of during the call
and as I wrapped up the call and I could tell she was pissed
and I was in trouble for something.
I just didn't know what it was yet.
(27:38):
And so I apologize in advance
but there's gonna be some expletives here
but I'm gonna give you the conversation
exactly the way it happened
and exactly the same amount of time that it actually took.
She goes, why the fuck are you gonna go make
some other asshole a bunch of money?
Why don't you come and help me?
I said, because we will fucking kill each other.
And she goes, well, we just have to get over that.
(27:59):
I said, okay, remember, this was your idea.
That was the entire conversation
and it literally took place that fast.
Well, I think we were in the PV house.
Yeah, we were in the PV, that's correct.
When you were on the phone doing consulting
and at the time we had a two-bedroom,
the kids shared a room, it was a very small house
(28:20):
and he would do his conference calls
and he would make me keep the kids quiet
which is not easy when you are in a small house.
With toddlers.
With toddlers, well, they were a little older than toddlers
but I think Harper was four and Rex was three.
I think that's out of the toddler stage, don't you think?
Maybe not.
Anyway, so I feel like that happened
(28:41):
and it was super annoying
because I couldn't keep the kids quiet
and he's on a call.
But then we eventually bought a house, a small house, right?
And that's when we actually decided to work together.
No, but the first conversation, I remember it as,
we were in that house and we did start,
(29:02):
I went and got the warehouse when we were in the new house
which was shortly thereafter.
Okay, well maybe we remember.
And the reason was we had inventory.
We had inventory in every room in the house
including the bathroom at that time.
So there was inventory everywhere.
We couldn't even walk in our house,
there was so much stuff.
Yeah, I remember two separate events
(29:23):
but I think we just remember it differently.
But yeah, I mean, after years of watching John consulting
with other companies and living the way we lived
which was not glamorous,
there was a point where I was cutting my kids' activities,
like swim lessons, like budgeting
because we didn't have a lot of dough.
(29:45):
And could I live on a shoestring?
Yeah, but I felt like we have more potential than this.
We can do better.
And so I was like, my business was taking off.
I had started an e-commerce business
after years and years of blogging.
And like John said, inventory was taking over the house.
It wasn't a big house, it was like 2,200 square feet
(30:07):
but it was literally in every single room.
I was shipping packages morning, noon and night.
I remember one year, my parents were in town
and I had my dad help bring boxes to the post office
because back then we were driving every single day
to the post office to ship the boxes.
There was no postal service picking up at my house
(30:28):
at the time.
But that's when we really were like,
okay, there's something here, right?
Do you agree?
Yeah, absolutely.
And to me, that's when the conversation came along
that John was talking about where he's like,
we're just gonna have to get over our differences
and figure out how to work together.
Yeah, well that one was, yes, it became more tactical, right?
(30:49):
I was just solving like, okay,
I gotta go and negotiate a warehouse lease, right?
So that was different.
And we were sitting on that really grimy yellow couch.
It had stains all over it.
It was so gross.
Do you remember?
I remember.
We ended up throwing it away when we moved out of that house.
My mom cried when she came to visit us.
Yeah, I think she saw like a cockroach in our house.
Yes.
(31:10):
Believe it or not, even though our house was messy,
it's actually not,
you could have a cockroach in the cleanest house
in Arizona, it just happens.
Pretty common.
But no, we did not put any emphasis on decorating
or painting the house.
We were like, just every single dollar,
we would just reinvest in the business.
It wasn't just every single dollar,
it was every single minute.
(31:30):
Yeah, I mean time.
Every ounce of energy we had, we put into that business,
we would come home and collapse.
It's not like we came home and like,
and so, but that was a conscious choice.
We said, we're going to put everything we have,
money and time, into this and it will be worth it.
And it was.
Yeah, and I think a lot of people
just didn't get it at the time.
(31:52):
My mom certainly didn't.
Right?
Well, look, everybody's different,
everybody's different though.
So I think there's different ways to grow a business.
For us, it was just like,
hey, let's be as minimalist as possible.
Correct.
Like, we're not going to go out to eat.
We're not like, back then, I don't think I'd,
I'd never gotten my nails done in my life.
Now I get my nails done.
Hadn't taken the vacation in three years.
(32:13):
I never got a haircut.
Like, I just was like, it's bare bones.
I never, like, I never, I always said,
if I ever become wealthy,
I'm going to get coffee at the coffee shop.
So I never bought myself coffee.
I was so frugal.
Sure.
But it was like, to me, it was fulfilling
because I was working towards something.
(32:33):
Like, I had a goal.
So it was fine.
And like, you know, John didn't, John was the same.
You were, you were on board too.
Like, we were both.
There's a, there's a minimalist person in me.
I like, I joke with Sherri all the time.
I am like, I watched this guy build a house.
He went into the wilderness for 30 days all by himself
and filmed himself building a house out of stones and wood.
(32:53):
And there's a part of me where I could be that guy.
I could just like leave civilized world behind
and just go somewhere and like live off the grid
and build shit.
So like, I have that in me.
She's, I would say just, she has a frugal mindset,
which is good.
And it's really helpful when you're an early stage
bootstrap entrepreneur.
(33:14):
Yeah, and I really think it was a very bootstrap business
in the beginning.
Like we had nothing.
We put seven grand and never put another diamond.
That was it.
And we scaled it.
And that's the best $7,000 investment I ever made.
And I've had some pretty good investments.
I remember going to my reunion
and people would ask me like my goal.
And I'd be like, I just want to be a millionaire.
(33:35):
I want to make a million.
I want to make a million dollars.
Like to me, that was such a big goal.
And like, I thought, oh, if I just become a millionaire,
like have $1 million, I'll have made it in the world.
Right? That was like my goal.
Inflation kicked the shit out of that.
But so, but yeah, yeah.
I think I remember talking to my first boss
(33:57):
and I was like, oh, I can't wait until I make a hundred grand.
I can't wait until I make, and he's like, ah, he goes,
he goes, all you do is just buy more shit.
And he was totally right.
I mean, that's basically what happened.
So one thing that I've done and we've done together well
is I am a prolific saver.
Like I save first.
Like the first thing I do in every company I'm in,
(34:20):
like every paycheck I've ever gotten, I put money aside.
And so saving has become a big part.
But anyway.
Well, thank you for answering all the questions today.
And thank you everybody for listening.
All right, we are live.
(00:02):
Yay.
Welcome back to Spill with Spearman.
We are welcoming John and Sherry back to the podcast.
And today we have some Q&A questions
we collected from Instagram.
So I'm going to just start firing them off for you guys.
Let's just start right out the gate with,
(00:23):
how do you and John handle conflict?
My husband and I really struggle when we argue.
That's a good one.
So we've gotten better at it.
Is that a fair statement?
I think so.
I mean, we've been together.
Shame we're not filming this, because Sherry's eyes
said a volume when I said, I think we're better at it.
(00:44):
Well, I met John when I was 27.
And I'm 48 now.
So we've been together 21 years.
We have.
Our anniversary's coming up.
Yes, we better be getting better at it.
We're still together.
Yes.
So I think that both John and I are type A personalities.
Would you agree?
(01:05):
Yes.
And we're also both very high strung.
Would you agree?
Yes, I agree with both of those things.
Passionate.
Yes.
Opinionated.
Opinionated is key.
So perhaps stubborn at moments.
Yeah, I think a lot of people, with some of the arguments
we've had, probably wouldn't still be together.
(01:25):
Yeah.
Would you agree?
But these are the problems.
So what's the answer?
I have a theory on the answer.
But what do you think?
Do you have a thought?
Well, I don't think it's a simple answer.
I think that for me, after I am able to say everything
I want to say in the argument, which I probably usually do,
(01:47):
I want to move on pretty quick.
Like, I want to say everything I want to say,
throw out all the insults if I'm going to insult you.
Yeah, there's usually insults.
Asshole is up there.
You're such a dick.
That's another one that comes up a lot.
I do use a lot of profanity when I argue.
I do not make personal attacks.
It's not my style.
(02:08):
I pick apart someone's logic.
So here's my theory on why we're still together
and we haven't killed each other yet.
The short answer is we have the same goals.
And life gets infinitely less complicated when, as a couple,
you have roughly the same goals.
We don't have perfectly the same goals,
(02:30):
but we have largely the same goals.
But I don't think that when we're
arguing in the heat of the moment, we're like, yeah,
we have the same goals, though.
No.
But that's how we get through it.
What happens, I think, is first of all, when we argue,
it's almost always about stupid shit.
Would you agree with that?
Yeah, I think so.
(02:50):
Right.
So we argue about stupid shit.
And then sometimes with an example.
What's an example?
Oh, god, of stuff we argue about?
Like parenting styles with kids sometimes.
I don't think that's stupid, though.
It's not stupid, but there's different approaches to it.
You're fair.
That's not stupid.
That is something we argue about.
Give a stupid argument.
A stupid argument.
(03:11):
Usually you can't even remember there's some stupid, right?
Like my driving is one that comes up, for sure.
I don't think that's stupid.
I think it's stupid.
When you drive, I don't want to get murdered.
I understand that.
But if we were to talk about the driving records of everyone
inside the family, one would have
to come to a certain statistical conclusion
that even though you may not agree with my driving style,
(03:34):
my driving style has produced a record that
I'm a horrible driver.
Is superior to the rest of the people in the family,
whether you like my driving style or not.
You do drive way more than I do.
I do.
I drive you guys everywhere.
And yet, somehow, I am constantly
questioned on my capacity as a driver, as a parking spot
(03:56):
picker, as a right all the things that drive men nuts.
I really don't think I criticize your parking spot picking,
but you do drive very aggressive,
and it makes me nervous.
Anyway, so back to the question, though.
So yeah, my answer to this is in the heat of the moment,
I'm really not thinking about, yeah, we have common goals.
Let's be done with this argument.
(04:16):
I'm thinking about, can I get everything said
that I want to say as quickly as possible in probably not
a very nice manner?
And then, can I move on?
Because I have so many things on my to-do list.
Like, wasting time being mad and arguing to me is not productive,
or it doesn't make me feel good either.
So I think that I just like to move on really quickly.
(04:38):
Have the argument, get it out, don't hold it in,
and then move on, and then get back to productive things.
And your things tend to be more like eruptions.
She tends to hold things in.
Eruptions?
A really long...
Eruptions.
Yes, they are.
So what happens is she'll hold it in.
Something's been bothering her for weeks,
and then all of a sudden, like, 87 things
that have been bothering her, they just all come out.
(05:00):
Like what?
And my style, well, hold on.
My style is I try to avoid arguments,
so I get quiet when we argue until she pushes me to a point,
and then I go from completely quiet to,
blah, blah, blah, I just like, you know, I'm like,
I push back hard.
So...
I feel like that's not necessarily true,
and we might just...
I feel like we might get an argument about how we are.
(05:22):
How we're arguing.
Because this is not accurate.
So what's not accurate?
Well, John went through a long stage
where he would actually leave the house.
Yeah, because then they wouldn't argue.
I think that's weird.
It's not weird.
It's just I don't feel like fighting.
I think it's stupid.
Anyway, I just think as a couple, you have to, like,
you know, you go into a marriage,
(05:42):
and you have to know not every day is going to be perfect.
You're going to have blowout arguments,
and at the end of the day, you just have to say you're sorry.
Sorry is key for me.
Yes.
I need a sorry.
No matter if it was your fault or my fault, I need a sorry.
And, like, I need, like, you got to forgive each other.
Right?
So you have to have an ability to put yourself in a,
(06:04):
I guess, in a mental state where once you argue,
you have to be done.
Like, you just can't keep going.
You have to say, hey, I can't keep going with this argument.
I've said everything I want to say.
You know, we are both somewhat of, you know,
somewhat of an asshole in this argument,
and let's move on now.
Yeah.
Like, it's a choice.
I do.
It's a choice to move on.
I agree with that.
We do choose to move on.
(06:25):
And I think, you know, anyway, I've said what I said,
but I think part of the reason is because we have more
important things to do.
Yeah, but I think if you were giving advice to a couple,
I would say have the argument, and then
make a conscious decision to both forgive and move
on at the same time.
Yeah, I agree.
Put it in the past.
And then focus on what's actually important.
(06:47):
Because like I said, most of the things
are not that important.
To me, it's like any other habit.
You have to practice.
Yeah, I agree with that.
And if you practice that skill, you'll
get really good at argument recovery.
That's one of the benefits of working together
is you don't have a choice.
Yeah.
So like, what happens is like when
I was working in the corporate world,
(07:10):
we would have an argument, and I would just
go to work and run away to work for 12 hours.
And it made it easier.
When you work together, you don't
have a choice because you're involved with each other 24-7.
So that's actually one of the things
I think was the best outcome of having a business together,
even though it was difficult early on in particular,
(07:30):
is it forced us to improve our communication.
It forced us to recover more quickly from arguments.
And it was a good thing.
Yeah, but it's also really easy to get in a headspace
where you have a petty party for yourself.
My husband sucks the most.
My argument's the worst.
It's like every married couple has arguments.
(07:51):
So just remember that and have your argument,
and then you're done.
And don't be, I mean, for you to say
that you're never going to have an argument again is ridiculous.
No, I know.
Everybody's going to have the next one.
We're going to have the next blow up one.
Yeah, we might have one in five minutes.
So then use the skill that you learned about recovery
for the next one.
All right, I think we beat this for that.
(08:11):
Yes.
Yeah, I think that goes into what you guys said last podcast,
is that you guys both respect that each other is
straightforward people, and you're
going to be honest with each other.
And then you guys have the same goals at the end of the day.
That's where the respect comes from.
One of the things I respect most about Sheri is her work ethic.
She's one of the hardest working people
I've ever met in my life.
And I really respect that about her.
(08:32):
No one wants to be in a relationship
with someone who you feel like the other person
in the relationship just isn't putting in the effort.
And I think that's one thing about the two of us,
is whether it's the business, the relationship, the kids,
the house, whatever, the two of us contribute to everything.
We are not mail it in kind of people.
And I think that's a core value that we both hold
(08:53):
that helps us a lot.
I agree.
I will add to that.
I got a DM from someone the other day
when I pointed out that you hadn't unpacked
your suitcase for five weeks.
And that I'm the most patient wife.
And I was thinking, oh, I like that comment first.
But then I was thinking, well, the reason
is that I haven't gotten his case,
is he's doing 5,000 other things.
(09:14):
It's not like he's laying in bed all day.
I mean, you're selling the house.
We're doing so many things.
Fixing cars that have been damaged.
Life is busy.
And you're always doing something.
So yeah, I try to pick my battles.
Me too.
And the suitcase just on the floor.
It's inconsequential.
Yeah, it's inconsequential.
It is what it is.
(09:35):
So kind of on a similar note, maybe,
what is the biggest challenge in your marriage?
I don't know.
What do you think?
I don't.
I mean, in the past, I would have
said there were challenges.
I don't think there's a biggest challenge.
I think that, I mean, I think raising kids is challenging.
(09:58):
Yeah, I think raising kids is challenging.
I honestly, this will sound super corny,
but I actually don't think there's
a ton of challenges either in the marriage right now.
She's my best friend.
There's no one else I would rather spend time with.
When I travel without her, I miss her.
And we go everywhere together.
(10:18):
We do everything together.
We're going to the Sun's Game together tonight.
And we're going to sit together because I actually
like sitting with my wife.
That helps a lot.
Now, I will joke about the fact that, look,
this is a real marriage.
And she's a real wife, which means we don't always
see eye to eye and get along.
But at the end of the day, I can't imagine
doing this with anybody else.
(10:39):
So to me, if you have that belief about the person
that you're in a relationship with,
everything else is kind of easy.
I think we, though, we are at a different place
than a lot of people.
And when I look back like 20 years ago, when we had no dough,
we were broke.
And John was married before me.
(11:02):
So there was an ex-wife situation,
which we can say for a different episode.
But that was really, really challenging.
So I think the financial.
Building a business was hard.
Yeah, starting the business was hard.
We're lucky that we're in a place we're at right now
where we're financially stable.
I would say fortunate, not lucky.
I mean, when the Harvard.
(11:23):
Did I say lucky?
You did.
And when the Harvard and Rex were at midnight sleeping
on the floor of the warehouse, that wasn't luck.
We worked our asses off.
Yeah, I agree.
And so, but to your point, it was a lot harder then.
Those are challenges.
Those are real challenges.
Yeah, when you don't have enough cash
(11:43):
to figure out how you're going to pay the bill, that's hard.
And I think a lot of people have been through that
and lived through that on a daily basis.
When money is difficult, marriage becomes a lot harder.
And so getting on the same page with money issues is a big one.
Yeah, I honestly, lately, I've heard so many podcasts talking
(12:05):
about how money's not everything, this and that.
And I just completely disagree.
I think when you have money and you're financially stable,
everything becomes ultimately easier, even
spending time together.
When you don't have any money, you can't even
spend time together.
You're all working different hours, right?
You can't afford to go to a restaurant, right?
(12:25):
Yeah, look, I think I understand the argument for money
isn't everything, which is that your mindset needs to be not
everything is life or death, right, which I get.
But I also get the fact that when something happens,
if there's an illness or if there's a car accident
or there's some appliance breaks in your house
(12:48):
and you don't have the money to fix it, that's hard.
And so getting to a point where those things don't put
meaningful stress in your life, I
think there's real value in that.
But I do applaud the people who can live their lives
like kind of in a very minimalistic way
(13:13):
and kind of minimalize that stuff.
I think that it's a great skill.
But I agree, it gets a lot easier
if you have room to maneuver because your finances are
permit and such.
So on a more positive note, do you guys
have any family travel tips?
Yeah, don't.
(13:33):
So we didn't travel with the kids when they were little
because we had this equation, right,
which was if the misery of the travel
was greater than the joy of the trip,
maybe we should just wait.
And so we didn't really start traveling internationally
with the kids until they could walk around the city
(13:55):
on their own.
We didn't do like the stroller in the city kind of thing.
And I see plenty of people who do it and I applaud them.
But that wasn't us.
So our first tip is wait until the kids are a little older
and they can actually enjoy it and be independent.
And for us, that was around eight, nine years old.
Yeah, well, I mean, look, we did some beach vacations
when the kids were little.
(14:16):
When they had kids clubs.
Yeah, I swear by a great resort in Mexico
with a really great kids club.
That way you drop them off at 8.30, you go to the pool,
you can have a couple of cocktails.
And then they're doing activities with other kids
all day and then you pick them up at about 3.30
and spend the evening with them.
Yeah, and then you go to dinner with them or whatever.
Yeah, so I like a kids club.
(14:38):
If your kids are of age, I think most kids clubs
start around two, two and a half.
And I just like Mexico.
But look, in general, we didn't even try going overseas
with them when they were little, not necessarily
because they were little, but because we had no money.
So like, I mean, if I would have had a ton of money,
I would have just brought a, hired a nanny to come with me.
(14:59):
That's actually one thing I'm proud of.
We never, never had a nanny.
Well, again, we had no money.
No, that's not true.
Like once we got the business rolling, we could have,
but we chose not to.
We actually built the business and our lifestyle
around raising our kids.
And we've talked about this in the past,
is that like, we didn't want a nanny
because we wanted to raise our kids.
We like, we-
No judgment though.
(15:20):
I mean, if you want to, if you have a nanny, right?
No, I have plenty of friends who have more than one nanny.
And you know, it works for some people.
And there's advantages, like there's certain trips.
Like there's a trip this year that we want to take
that we're not going to take because the kids are in school.
And maybe if we had a nanny, we would take that trip.
But honestly, we got three and a half years left
with the kids in the house.
(15:40):
And I want to try to enjoy every moment of that
as humanly possible.
Yeah, I don't know if we answered the question
of travel tips.
Yeah, it's just, start later, make sure that they're mobile.
And before that, take them to a kids club.
Those are the tips.
And obviously we've talked about this a million times.
We do everything with American Express Points.
(16:02):
So get really good at maximizing points,
particularly if you have your own business.
So next question is, finish going into your early years
together, getting married, having the kids,
and then starting to work together.
Well, multiple questions in one.
That's a lot.
There is a lot.
(16:22):
So we can start with one thing.
So when we first met, what did we first talk about?
Football.
Right, and how am I programmed in your phone?
As Eagles.
Right, the Eagles won the Super Bowl, but I snuck that in.
I set that up.
So that was total setup.
Yeah, so I was living in Las Vegas when I met John,
(16:42):
and John was in Vegas for a conference,
and he was working for a mortgage company at the time.
And we met at a bar at the Bellagio,
and just exchanged numbers, really.
Talked a little bit about football,
exchanged numbers, would you agree?
Yes, there's a little bit more detail,
(17:03):
which I think is more colorful.
So she put me in the phone as Eagles
because I told her that if she gave me her number,
I would call her, and the next time
that the Eagles and the Vikings play,
I would fly her out to Philadelphia
for the Eagles-Vikings game.
And she told me, and I quote, you are full of shit.
(17:23):
So it unbeknownst to me, about 30 days later,
I came back for another conference to Vegas,
and I was gonna be there almost two weeks.
And I didn't call her, text her the first day.
I texted her the second day
because I didn't want to appear too anxious.
(17:44):
Like I would have even known.
I understand, but this was what was going through my head.
And so I texted her on that second day and said,
hey, you wanna meet for a drink?
And we met for a drink,
and we have literally talked every single day since.
I should have asked when you texted me,
is this the first day you're here or the second day?
Yeah, you should have.
But we've literally talked every day since.
(18:08):
Pretty much.
Yeah, we went straight to,
we talked about living together in San Jose
and other things before.
But yeah, and for me, it was very quick.
I knew right away that I wanted to be with her.
So John was living in New Jersey.
Did you say that?
Well, I talked about Philadelphia.
(18:28):
Okay, so John was living in Southern New Jersey.
I was in Las Vegas,
so we long distance dated for about six months, I would say.
Then he got a job offer in San Jose, California,
and decided to take it working for a motorcycle company.
And shortly after that,
(18:48):
I moved out to San Jose, California with him.
We moved in together.
I, at the time, had,
well, I had just purchased a house in Vegas
probably nine months earlier.
So I sold my house in Vegas.
It was at the top of the job market.
It was at the peak of the housing market.
(19:09):
So I sold my house.
I made like 100 grand of my house really, really quick,
which was huge amount of money for me back then, right?
And yeah, I just bet it all and moved in with him.
Well, there's a little bit more to that story too.
So at the time, the market was going crazy
and everyone was buying houses.
(19:29):
What year was this?
So this was- 2004.
2004, yeah.
And so I was like, you should sell that house
because you've crushed it
and I'm worried about this market.
And remember, I spent the first 20 years of my career
in the mortgage and real estate market.
And her sister at the time was a real estate agent
(19:50):
and she sold it and literally she closed
almost within 30 days of the peak of the Las Vegas market.
Las Vegas market was one of the first markets to collapse.
And it took over 10 years for that house
to get back to the price that she sold it for.
True.
So that was, that'll play into future episodes
(20:11):
about house hunting and why I have a certain mentality
that I do.
But that, so that was all true.
And so she made a very nice profit very quickly
in less than a year on that house.
Yes.
And then the next part of the question is getting married.
Oh gosh.
You wanna tell that story?
(20:31):
That's a hard one.
I mean, John, okay, I'll start with this
because I'll defend him a little bit.
He was married before I was not.
It was my first marriage, his second.
He dragged his feet.
I mean, it was four years and ultimately it came down
to an ultimatum in my opinion.
It was, and I can remember exactly where I was.
(20:54):
And well actually there was an ultimatum
but then there was a decision.
She took action.
And this is actually another thing I appreciate about her.
I can still remember exactly where I was.
I was working in New York City at 45 Rockefeller Center,
which is the big building with the Atlas statue
in front of it.
And I was in the elevator going down to lunch
(21:14):
with two of my colleagues who were hysterical guys.
Anyway, very funny guys.
And Sherry calls me and says, I'm planning a wedding.
We're going to Belize.
And she says, Kelly's gonna do everything.
And all you have to do is show up.
My sister.
My sister was a wedding planner in Belize at the time.
(21:36):
And to which I said, okay, I'm going to lunch.
And I went to lunch and she planned the wedding
and it was awesome.
And we got married.
So I actually appreciated her just taking the action.
So it is in the terms of the most romantic of nuptials,
(21:56):
it was about as far from romantic as it could possibly be.
John was a zero.
I was a zero on.
Zero out of 10 for romance.
Yeah, zero out of 10 for romance.
It was purely, she just said, hey, we're getting married.
I'm gonna plan everything.
All you have to do is show up.
I said, okay, I'm going to lunch.
But don't you feel like there was some conversation
that like if you're not marrying me, I'm out.
I feel like there was some of that.
(22:17):
There was like 20 of those before that.
Right, but the actual seminal moment was you called me
and told me, you weren't asking me anymore.
You told me we were getting married.
My feeling on this, and this is like pre social media days,
like there was no chatter about how long should you wait
before you get a marriage proposal.
(22:37):
But look, we met when I was 27.
Was I 30 or 31?
Well.
I think I was 31.
I think I had just turned 31 when I told you this.
Well, it was 17 years ago because it's gonna be.
So it was 31?
So on February 21st, this is our 17th wedding anniversary.
I think I told you around October
that we were getting married.
(22:57):
So you were 31.
Okay, so wait.
Or I guess.
I just turned 31, yeah.
Yes, I agree.
So I just turned 31.
I'm pretty sure it was probably like around October.
We ended up getting married in February.
But that's four years that I put in.
And I'm just like, yeah, I'm not gonna hang around
much longer because I knew I wanted kids.
(23:17):
So I was like, I have to get like, the marriage to me,
because I've never been like a bride, like a bride,
like a girly bride.
Like I wanna design my whole wedding
because we obviously we eloped.
So I didn't care about that.
I didn't care about the wedding.
I just wanted to have kids.
And I wasn't, I didn't, to me it was important
to be married before I had kids.
(23:38):
So yeah, and I was ready to have kids.
So yeah, I told him we're getting married
and I wanted to see how he would respond.
And you responded favorably.
So we got married.
But yeah, I would say four years is enough to give a guy.
Like I think that's plenty.
Yeah, look, I agree.
(24:01):
And.
Like if he's not ready after four years,
then he's probably not gonna be ready.
So it was either marry me or I'm moving on.
Yeah, and again, I think Sherry prefaced it right.
I was just afraid to get married again.
It had nothing to do with her.
And I think she just gave me the push that I needed
because I knew I didn't wanna be without her.
(24:21):
I just wasn't terribly excited about being married again.
But I also, if I had to not be with her,
that would not have been a good outcome.
I did not want that.
And so here we are 17 years later.
Yeah.
And then the next part of the question, having the kids.
So was there a similar ultimatum there?
(24:43):
No. No.
We had kids like within 15 minutes.
Yeah, Harper was born.
We got married February 21st coming up on our 17th?
Yeah, I think she was expecting within 30 days
of being married.
What is?
No, I'm serious.
Like within the first month,
if you do the math backwards from.
Oh, I thought, okay.
No, not before, after.
(25:04):
Yes. Yeah.
So I had Harper in December.
Married in February, had Harper December 20th.
So yeah, got pregnant really,
was lucky to get her pregnant really quick.
I was very, very excited.
I couldn't wait.
We went to the REO Speedwagon, Def Leppard concert
and we learned after that, that she was actually pregnant.
(25:27):
We didn't know yet that she was actually pregnant
when we were at that concert.
Yes, that's true.
Yeah.
But yeah, no, I was thrilled.
I was so excited because I was totally ready
to be a mom at that point.
Like I didn't need to have a honeymoon phase.
I didn't need to, like I'd already been with him
for four years and then they're done that, let's have a kid.
And then Rex came 18 months,
not even quite 18 months after.
(25:49):
Yeah, and both of our kids were planned.
So no surprises.
And I got pregnant really, I was very lucky.
Wasn't quite Irish twins, but it was close.
No.
So.
So yeah, they were both planned.
How did you come up with their names?
Oh gosh, I made long lists.
I was like totally opposite in,
like I didn't care about weddings and being a bride,
(26:10):
but I totally was into the names.
So I did like long lists of names
that I would send John when he was at work
and he would usually hate all my names.
So it was just a process of elimination
where he would finally agree to something, right?
Yeah, there were things that I would like,
there were things that she would like,
but there were very few things that we both liked.
Harper was one.
Harper, we agreed to, I believe,
(26:32):
when she was, once we found out she was a girl
at 18 weeks, it was Harper.
We didn't name her middle name until she was born.
When she was born, we decided,
I think I remember we were in the hospital
and you were writing a bunch of different names down
and then we just decided, okay, Quincy, it's Quincy.
HQ, Harper Quincy.
(26:53):
That was it.
Cute.
And then the last part of that question
was starting to work together.
Did we tell that story yet?
I don't know.
Do we tell the story about, all right,
so we haven't told it, all right.
So this is a famous, one of our conversations.
One of our famous, one of our famous,
like for us, internal questions or conversations.
(27:16):
So I was doing some consulting work.
I was on the board of advisors of a company in Brooklyn
and I took a call, I was doing like an update call
on a Sunday and it was one of those days
where I looked at Sherry kind of during the call
and as I wrapped up the call and I could tell she was pissed
and I was in trouble for something.
I just didn't know what it was yet.
(27:38):
And so I apologize in advance
but there's gonna be some expletives here
but I'm gonna give you the conversation
exactly the way it happened
and exactly the same amount of time that it actually took.
She goes, why the fuck are you gonna go make
some other asshole a bunch of money?
Why don't you come and help me?
I said, because we will fucking kill each other.
And she goes, well, we just have to get over that.
(27:59):
I said, okay, remember, this was your idea.
That was the entire conversation
and it literally took place that fast.
Well, I think we were in the PV house.
Yeah, we were in the PV, that's correct.
When you were on the phone doing consulting
and at the time we had a two-bedroom,
the kids shared a room, it was a very small house
(28:20):
and he would do his conference calls
and he would make me keep the kids quiet
which is not easy when you are in a small house.
With toddlers.
With toddlers, well, they were a little older than toddlers
but I think Harper was four and Rex was three.
I think that's out of the toddler stage, don't you think?
Maybe not.
Anyway, so I feel like that happened
(28:41):
and it was super annoying
because I couldn't keep the kids quiet
and he's on a call.
But then we eventually bought a house, a small house, right?
And that's when we actually decided to work together.
No, but the first conversation, I remember it as,
we were in that house and we did start,
(29:02):
I went and got the warehouse when we were in the new house
which was shortly thereafter.
Okay, well maybe we remember.
And the reason was we had inventory.
We had inventory in every room in the house
including the bathroom at that time.
So there was inventory everywhere.
We couldn't even walk in our house,
there was so much stuff.
Yeah, I remember two separate events
(29:23):
but I think we just remember it differently.
But yeah, I mean, after years of watching John consulting
with other companies and living the way we lived
which was not glamorous,
there was a point where I was cutting my kids' activities,
like swim lessons, like budgeting
because we didn't have a lot of dough.
(29:45):
And could I live on a shoestring?
Yeah, but I felt like we have more potential than this.
We can do better.
And so I was like, my business was taking off.
I had started an e-commerce business
after years and years of blogging.
And like John said, inventory was taking over the house.
It wasn't a big house, it was like 2,200 square feet
(30:07):
but it was literally in every single room.
I was shipping packages morning, noon and night.
I remember one year, my parents were in town
and I had my dad help bring boxes to the post office
because back then we were driving every single day
to the post office to ship the boxes.
There was no postal service picking up at my house
(30:28):
at the time.
But that's when we really were like,
okay, there's something here, right?
Do you agree?
Yeah, absolutely.
And to me, that's when the conversation came along
that John was talking about where he's like,
we're just gonna have to get over our differences
and figure out how to work together.
Yeah, well that one was, yes, it became more tactical, right?
(30:49):
I was just solving like, okay,
I gotta go and negotiate a warehouse lease, right?
So that was different.
And we were sitting on that really grimy yellow couch.
It had stains all over it.
It was so gross.
Do you remember?
I remember.
We ended up throwing it away when we moved out of that house.
My mom cried when she came to visit us.
Yeah, I think she saw like a cockroach in our house.
Yes.
(31:10):
Believe it or not, even though our house was messy,
it's actually not,
you could have a cockroach in the cleanest house
in Arizona, it just happens.
Pretty common.
But no, we did not put any emphasis on decorating
or painting the house.
We were like, just every single dollar,
we would just reinvest in the business.
It wasn't just every single dollar,
it was every single minute.
(31:30):
Yeah, I mean time.
Every ounce of energy we had, we put into that business,
we would come home and collapse.
It's not like we came home and like,
and so, but that was a conscious choice.
We said, we're going to put everything we have,
money and time, into this and it will be worth it.
And it was.
Yeah, and I think a lot of people
just didn't get it at the time.
(31:52):
My mom certainly didn't.
Right?
Well, look, everybody's different,
everybody's different though.
So I think there's different ways to grow a business.
For us, it was just like,
hey, let's be as minimalist as possible.
Correct.
Like, we're not going to go out to eat.
We're not like, back then, I don't think I'd,
I'd never gotten my nails done in my life.
Now I get my nails done.
Hadn't taken the vacation in three years.
(32:13):
I never got a haircut.
Like, I just was like, it's bare bones.
I never, like, I never, I always said,
if I ever become wealthy,
I'm going to get coffee at the coffee shop.
So I never bought myself coffee.
I was so frugal.
Sure.
But it was like, to me, it was fulfilling
because I was working towards something.
(32:33):
Like, I had a goal.
So it was fine.
And like, you know, John didn't, John was the same.
You were, you were on board too.
Like, we were both.
There's a, there's a minimalist person in me.
I like, I joke with Sherri all the time.
I am like, I watched this guy build a house.
He went into the wilderness for 30 days all by himself
and filmed himself building a house out of stones and wood.
(32:53):
And there's a part of me where I could be that guy.
I could just like leave civilized world behind
and just go somewhere and like live off the grid
and build shit.
So like, I have that in me.
She's, I would say just, she has a frugal mindset,
which is good.
And it's really helpful when you're an early stage
bootstrap entrepreneur.
(33:14):
Yeah, and I really think it was a very bootstrap business
in the beginning.
Like we had nothing.
We put seven grand and never put another diamond.
That was it.
And we scaled it.
And that's the best $7,000 investment I ever made.
And I've had some pretty good investments.
I remember going to my reunion
and people would ask me like my goal.
And I'd be like, I just want to be a millionaire.
(33:35):
I want to make a million.
I want to make a million dollars.
Like to me, that was such a big goal.
And like, I thought, oh, if I just become a millionaire,
like have $1 million, I'll have made it in the world.
Right? That was like my goal.
Inflation kicked the shit out of that.
But so, but yeah, yeah.
I think I remember talking to my first boss
(33:57):
and I was like, oh, I can't wait until I make a hundred grand.
I can't wait until I make, and he's like, ah, he goes,
he goes, all you do is just buy more shit.
And he was totally right.
I mean, that's basically what happened.
So one thing that I've done and we've done together well
is I am a prolific saver.
Like I save first.
Like the first thing I do in every company I'm in,
(34:20):
like every paycheck I've ever gotten, I put money aside.
And so saving has become a big part.
But anyway.
Well, thank you for answering all the questions today.
And thank you everybody for listening.
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