In this episode of Spiraling Up, the team dives into the implications of Google's new AI product, Veo 3, which can generate highly realistic video content from text prompts. What impact will this have on marketing? On humanity?
Then, the hosts welcome Megan Battaglia, VP of Marketing at ThunderCat Technology, for a game of 'B2G Power Plays.' Megan shares valuable insights on building a government-focused marketing strategy, leveraging vendor partnerships, and ensuring event success. Don't miss this engaging discussion on the future of marketing in the B2G space!
00:00 Introduction
05:31 Pivotal Story: Google Veo 3
16:50 Introducing Megan Battaglia
19:13 Power Play 1: Going from Solo Marketer to Small Team
32:35 Power Play 2: Impact of Administration Changes on Marketing
39:13 Power Play 3: Running a Successful Charity Golf Tournament
52:03 Ultimate Power Play: Mission Focus Mindset
53:33 Outro
Connect with Megan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meganbattaglia/
Learn more about ThunderCat: https://www.thundercattech.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Austin McNair (00:00):
In today's episode of Spiraling Up,
Google's VO three is here, andI'm convinced we're doomed.
It's over.
Our team is gonna discuss andthen we're gonna be joined by
(00:20):
Megan Bataglia, VP of marketingat one of the fastest growing B
two G firms in the country for agame of B two G Power plays.
Welcome everyone.
This is spiraling up with Hinge.
(00:40):
Welcome everyone to Spiraling Upthe podcast for professional
services marketers and businessleaders where professional
services marketing comes to lifethrough engaging interactive
discussions with industryleaders.
My name is Austin McNair, and asalways, I'm joined by my
colleagues Mary Blanche Kramer.
Hi, me
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (00:58):
Hey, hey.
Austin McNair (00:59):
and Joe Pope.
Joe, how's it going?
Joe Pope (01:02):
You for somebody.
You sounded so doomed in theintro read.
You're seeming pretty chipperright now.
Austin McNair (01:07):
I don't know what you're talking about.
We'll get to that topic in aminute.
Uh, as we get started, I wannasay thank you to all of our
listeners and those watching onYouTube support the show by
giving us a, like, subscribe tothe show.
Uh, we are just getting startedwith spiraling up, so every bit
of algorithm love will help usout a lot.
(01:28):
Joe Mb I'm excited to catch up.
We are in the season wherevacations are starting.
We just had Father's Day.
Joe, happy Father's Day to you.
Happy
Joe Pope (01:39):
You as well.
Austin McNair (01:40):
Although in Brazil, father's Day is in a
different, it's totallydifferent month.
It's in, it's not until August.
I don't know why, but it's, uh,it's different.
Uh, mother's Day is the same.
Every other holiday is prettymuch the same.
But Father's Day specialtreatment, I guess I get kind of
like one and a half versions ofFather's
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (01:58):
I love.
Austin McNair (01:59):
Joe, I saw that you were busy over the weekend
doing some beer brewing, somebarbecuing.
Tell us about that.
It looked really good.
Joe Pope (02:08):
I was busy pretending to be an Instagram influencer.
Emphasis on pretending, uh, no.
We, uh.
We decided as, uh, my neighborsand I, I, I live on a fun
cul-de-sac.
We all, you know, have kids goto the same schools and so
forth.
And, uh, we have similar morepassions.
Beer brewing is one of them.
(02:29):
Barbecue is another.
And uh, we decided that onSaturday for Father's Day, that
we would, uh.
We would document a, anInstagram reel story of our
attempt to brew two beers andsmoke a 10 pound brisket, uh,
over, you know, 10, 12 hours.
(02:50):
'cause honestly, it takes quitea long time.
So the brewing of the beer wasto fill the, the middle part
because frankly, if you knowanything about smoking meat, uh,
it really takes a lot longerthan you think it should.
Uh, but it was, it was a goodtime.
Uh, I would, I would give the.
The smoked brisket, uh, probablya six and a half out of 10.
I, I, the other folks seemed toreally like it.
(03:12):
I, uh, I actually originallybuilt my timeout for a seven
pound brisket, and if you addthree pounds to something, you
add multiple hours to something.
So I had to kind of pick it up alittle bit so we didn't eat it.
10 30 at night.
Beer brewing though, so this is,uh, yeah, it's something I got
into a few years ago and, and,uh, partially by request, uh,
(03:33):
Mary Blanche, uh, we created aknockoff of a Pacifico.
This is a pale lager Mexicanstyle beer.
And then we took it a step.
MB is very beer.
Uh, the, the, uh, the otherthing we did was to take that
beer and then pour five poundsof honey into it, which makes a
(03:55):
really alcoholic beer.
If you know anything aboutfermentation, sugar and honey,
and, you know, yeast makes a lotof.
Alcohols.
And so we have a Pacifico and wehave a honey Pacifico, and those
are our two beers.
Uh, those I would give a highranking to though we do have to
wait, a few months for them to,uh, do their thing.
Usually about five, six weeks,uh,
Austin McNair (04:16):
I was gonna
Joe Pope (04:17):
ready for
Austin McNair (04:17):
can we get a live taste test, uh, on, on, on air
in a future episode of SpiralingUp?
Maybe would that change thecontent warning on our, uh,
YouTube channel or something?
I, I don't know.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (04:28):
I'm
Joe Pope (04:28):
spiraling out, not spiraling
Austin McNair (04:30):
Yeah, that'll be the after hours podcast.
Mayor Blanc.
I know you were, you were backfrom a nice vacation out in,
what was it?
Hilton Head.
How was that?
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (04:40):
Yeah, it was good.
It was good.
We go there every year.
Um, there's a, it's a, it's agreat place to go, especially
for the age.
Nine girls are, they're eightand nine and um, yeah, like
beach pool, restaurants.
Joe Pope (04:50):
golf.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (04:51):
Yeah.
Um, it was also my mom's 70thbirthday while we were there, so
we gave a little celebration toher.
But yeah, it was a good time.
It felt like a short, um, ashort trip, but yeah, relaxing
and, and fun nonetheless.
Austin McNair (05:05):
Excellent.
Well, feeling refreshed.
Ready to go for another episodeof Spiraling Up.
Uh, we've got a great guest.
If anyone is in the two G spaceor anybody is, you know, does
any kind of, uh, selling to thegovernment.
You're gonna wanna stick aroundfor our interview with Meghan
Bataglia, super sharp, supersmart, um, uh, marketer, who's
(05:25):
been with her company for overeight years.
But first.
Why don't we get to this week'spivotal story?
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (05:31):
Alright, marketers, we need to talk
because the way we create andconsume video is about to be
completely unrecognizable.
Today we're exploring adevelopment from Google that is
set to dramatically reshape ourdigital ecosystem.
The launch of VO three.
This new text of video AI model,can generate incredibly
(05:53):
realistic.
Minute plus video clips withcomplex camera work and sound
all from a simple text prompt.
This capability is being calledastonishingly realistic and
transformative for the internet.
And one thing is for sure, thequality of this technology will
only increase from here, but thetool also brings many concerns.
(06:15):
What does the future of thedigital channels look like when
it's completely flooded with AIgenerated video content?
Now, Austin, I know you arepretty eager to talk about this
one.
Um, what are your thoughts onhow these tools could impact
professional services marketing?
Austin McNair (06:32):
I, I am full of thoughts.
You're right.
I mean, there is a part of mewhere I'm just thinking, yeah,
it's over.
We're doomed, we're cooked.
It's time to officially hit thepanic button.
People were panicking about SEO.
People
Joe Pope (06:48):
Not panicking about SEO anymore, are we?
Austin McNair (06:50):
No, no, no.
This is way bigger guys.
This is like, this is crazy.
I, I, I.
I think we crossed a threshold.
I, I think I published this onLinkedIn.
I, today's date doesn't reallymatter.
I published this on, on June 9thbecause it was, that was a
Monday and it was the weekendwhere I think it was like
raining down here.
(07:11):
Kids were sick.
I was inside a lot and I was onmy phone a lot, and it was the
first time where in my doomscrolling experience, I saw
videos where I was like, I don'tknow.
If that was a real person ornot.
And, and I consider myself to besomeone who's online quite a
bit.
You know, I'm in marketing, I'mfollowing the development of
(07:31):
this technology pretty closely.
And if I am already, I mean,this came out like three weeks
ago, VO three with Google, it'sbeen three weeks and this stuff
is already kind of hitting myfeed.
Um, and if I'm having a trouble,I, I just think a lot of people
are gonna have difficulty.
Deciphering what's real forwhat's not real, um, right now.
(07:54):
Um, so yeah, I have a lot ofconcerns.
Um, if I had to give one pieceof advice right now to marketers
is that, uh, don't pretend to bea sociologist.
Don't pretend to like you have acrystal ball.
None of us really know what'sgonna happen with this te this
technology.
And we need to be looking tothought leaders and influencers,
(08:18):
not ai like real people who arekind of processing this data and
following these changes reallyclosely.
I think it's gonna be one of thethings that we have to, um, pay
very close attention to, uh,over the next, I mean, forever.
Like I said, I mean, what nowthat we've crossed this horizon,
there's not any going back.
I mean, we're talking aboutvideo.
(08:39):
With sound that is generatedfrom text.
I mean, this is like, like yousaid, Mary Blanche only gonna
get like harder to decipher.
So, uh, in that spirit, Iactually wanted to show you guys
a video.
It's not an AI video, she's areal influencer.
Uh, her name is Ask Chat, askCat GPT.
(09:01):
Uh, she seems very smart onthese issues and I wanted to
show you guys a video she putout recently about this and get
your thoughts.
How does that sound?
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (09:08):
Yeah, let's do it.
Joe Pope (09:09):
We love bringing influencers in on this show.
Austin McNair (09:13):
All right, let's watch, uh, watch the video from
Kat.
Ask CatGPT (09:16):
I'm standing out against the flood of AI slop on
social media.
Audiences wanna follow andsupport creators that they know
are human.
Of course.
Then the question kind ofbecomes, well, how do you know
that I'm human?
Really, the negative side ofthis is that human creators
might find it's getting harderand harder.
Stand out within a sea of AIslop that has been engineered to
flood our brains with dopamineand human creators like me won't
(09:38):
stand a chance.
Number three squarely in thenegative camp is that the
internet becomes an unusablesource of information.
Real events areindistinguishable from
simulations and the truth.
Becomes unknowable.
Very, very negative.
Now, one ironically positiveside effect of this is that the
negative effects of fake newswill effectively go away.
If none of us trust anything wesee on the internet, then that
(09:58):
means that all of thedisinformation campaigns also
lose their bite.
Number five and number six aremore predictions around culture
and business.
First, if we can't trustanything we see online, then
certain things are gonna gain apremium, like in-person events
and physical media.
I call this.
The analog renaissance and thelast one.
When people get fatigued fromconstantly questioning what's
real, they'll retreat intothings that feel more realistic
(10:20):
because they're pre ai.
Think old YouTube DVD, becauseit feels safe and familiar.
Alright, what do you think?
Are you more on this side or onthis side?
Leave your thoughts in thecomments and for more non
pretentious, non patronizingeducation about ai, follow this
page.
Austin McNair (10:37):
I love
Joe Pope (10:37):
wanna be pretentious.
Yeah.
Austin McNair (10:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We definitely don't.
Uh, so I, I think I've alreadykind of hinted that I'm more on
the pessimistic end of the, thespectrum here, but, uh, Joe,
Mary Blanche, I kind of wannaturn it over to you guys of the
kind of scenarios that shepainted there.
What stands out to you?
Joe Pope (10:57):
Well, I, I don't know if I would say pessimistic was a
good word for doom and gloom.
Austin, I think that's where youwere.
Uh, you, you kind of startedthis conversation.
I, I feel like, uh, miss Cat GPTbrought up some really
interesting points.
The analog Renaissance thing is,is I think we're seeing that
more and more, and honestlythere's precedence for that
anyways.
(11:18):
Uh, I mean, we're talking aboutthis now in terms of.
AI and, and digital and allthose types of things.
But even though it was like 10years, 20, 30 years ago as new
technologies, laser discs, CDs,MP threes, as we've kind of
worked our way through thesedifferent tech, there's always
kind of that longing for whatcame before.
(11:39):
So I, I think that there's adefinite tie there in terms of
where we might see folks and tobe.
What that might actually then dois for creators like, uh, mis,
cat, GPT, or, uh, we can evenstart to go up the bigger end of
the spectrum with the, the PaulBrothers and Mr.
Beast and so forth.
The folks that create originalcontent that have done a very
(12:02):
good job in growing their brandsand their reputations, I, I
don't see how those folks will,will lose.
If anything, I actually think ina lot of circumstances, they'll,
they'll gain, they'll winbecause of the nature of people.
Just like people like you,Austin, thinking that the
world's doom and gloom, uh,they're gonna go to what makes
sense, what makes, uh, whatmakes them happy and, and what
(12:22):
makes good connection to theirinterests.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (12:24):
it's perplexing, right?
Like this idea of not being ableto like living in a world where
you don't really know.
What you can and can't trust.
Um, so I think there's a lot ofvalidity to what she said in
terms of what that ultimatelycould look like.
Like I think that's a veryinteresting point talking about,
uh, the things that will gain,will gain a premium, like those
(12:45):
in-person events, um, you know,that subject matter expert that
you know that you can trust.
Um, so yeah, very, veryinteresting.
It's a very interesting time.
Austin McNair (12:56):
Yeah, I mean, I, I go back to some of the stuff
we've talked about, like whatare the strategies professional
services firms are gonna have tothink about.
In this era, right?
Because I, I have no doubt thatthis problem is going to
immediately make an impact inour sector, and especially for
marketers.
I mean, we are as professionalservices marketers, we are
(13:18):
marketing expertise.
We are marketing people.
So on one in one hand, on onehand.
There is an advantage that wehave, right?
Because our people areexpertise, you know, and people
are all different, right?
And as long as people'spersonalities are coming out and
people's true kind of technicalexpertise is being brought to
the table, being brought to thespotlight, then we should be
(13:41):
able to kind of rise above, youknow, AI slop for example.
But the challenge is, you know,as marketers going and
harnessing that out of experts,right?
Spending the time that it takesto actually get to know the
experts at your company andraising their, helping them
raise their profiles.
A lot of experts don't even wanttheir profile to be raised.
They're cool, kind of just beingbehind the scenes or, you know,
(14:04):
they're, they're cool, cool.
Being like that local superstar,just kind of with their clients.
But as marketers, it's a realchallenge, right?
Because out there in the spaceon, you know, on PLA channels
like LinkedIn or even your emailinbox, like.
All these places are gettingdisrupted rapidly.
And like I said, like for me,you know, it was my Instagram
feed and that changing like overone weekend, how quickly it's
(14:28):
like this technology came andboom, it's on my feed.
That, you know, the effects ofthese changes are gonna be
coming so quick and so fast.
And I think what marketers needto continue to do is like bring
that human side out in theirmarketing more.
Joe, I like what you said, itresonated with me as well.
Kind of that, um, analogrenaissance.
(14:50):
I think there's no doubt thatthat, that that's coming.
And B, we experienced that whenwe went to the, to the
conference a few months ago.
Right.
Just like how great it was beingthere with people, seeing people
face to face.
I mean, that.
A a, a pretty significantdifference.
What does like the end of thatlook like though?
I mean, this is the kind ofthing that I, I, it, I am a
(15:13):
little bit doom and gloombecause I'm doom and gloom on
the things, you know, the waythat we've done things are over,
you know, it's, it's, it's, weare stepping into kind of a
totally new frontier and it's,some of it will feel familiar,
especially that like analogrenaissance part, but a lot of
us are gonna be introduced tothings and trends and.
(15:35):
Um, challenges that we've neverseen before.
So I guess if I could offer onelast piece of advice, it would
be go follow influencers who aretalking about this, who are more
futuristic thinking, who are,um, guiding you and kind of
presenting you with strategiesand principles that go beyond
kind of the day in, day out.
(15:56):
Because we gotta have somethingthat we hold onto if we're
gonna, if we're gonna kind ofsurpass and kind of survive
through this.
Tidal wave of change that'scoming.
Joe Pope (16:05):
Yeah, Austin.
I, I think that's well said and,and a really good piece of
advice.
And, you know, other than thefact that I felt like you were
about to tee up, that theyshould just continue to follow
the Spiraling Up Podcast forsuch great information and
insights.
Um, I think you nailed it.
Austin McNair (16:19):
Well, absolutely, they absolutely should do that.
Uh, we will continue to talkabout this and we'll continue to
bring you guys interestingpivotal stories.
Um, great one mb thank you guys.
Um, I.
Let's turn now to, uh, what I'mreally excited about, a great
guest, super smart, super sharp.
We talk about bringing in apractitioner who knows what
(16:40):
she's doing and who has reallydeveloped her, uh, expertise in
her industry.
Very excited for ourconversation coming up with
Megan Bataglia.
All right.
I wanna Welcome to the podcast.
I.
Megan Battaglia.
Megan serves as the VicePresident of marketing at
Thundercat Technology, a servicedisabled veteran-owned small
(17:03):
business based out of Reston,Virginia.
Thundercat is a leadingsolutions provider to the United
States government, educationalinstitutions, and commercial
companies.
With over eight years ofexperience in strategic
marketing, branding, andcommunications, Megan leads.
All marketing efforts to enhancethe company's visibility, drive
(17:23):
business growth, and strengthenrelationships, uh, with key
customers and partner.
Megan, welcome to Spiraling Up.
Megan Battaglia (17:31):
Thanks guys.
Thanks for having me.
Austin McNair (17:33):
Absolutely.
It's nice to meet you.
Uh, of course, though, I, uh,we're meeting you for the first
time, but my understanding isthat you and Joe know each other
outside of the spiraling up andthe hinge and the Thundercat
world.
Tell us about that.
Megan Battaglia (17:47):
Yeah, so Joe and I, um, are friends to a
mutual friend, and I was agroomed woman and he was a
groomed man and his wedding, andso we spent a.
Week long trip down and outerbanks together.
So that's kinda how we know eachother.
And Joe likes to play in ourcharity golf tournament when I
can squeeze him in.
Joe Pope (18:06):
I've always been very appreciative, Megan, of when you
do squeeze me in, uh, usually,uh, joining with the iHeartRadio
crew, I think they always end uponly sending one or two folks.
So, uh, no, Megan, it's, it'sgreat to have you on and when we
were talking about guests, whenwe were creating this podcast,
I.
Uh, when it came to the B two Gspace, uh, you were the first
mind that came.
Uh, you were the first name thatcame to my mind, uh, as somebody
(18:28):
who I thought might have somefun with this format of a style
of a podcast, the no more boringpodcast approach.
Austin McNair (18:34):
I would echo that, Megan.
We're excited, we're excited tohave you on.
You know, we want to talk topractitioners, people that are,
you know, in the trenches everyday, and that can kind of bring
some of that industryperspective.
So, um, with that, that's how wekind of came up with today's.
Game.
Today's challenge, what we'regonna be talking about.
So Megan, when deciding whatgame to play today, um, we
(18:57):
decided that as fans of theWashington Capitals ourselves,
we wanted to give a nod to, uh,thundercats advertising
partnership with the WashingtonCapitals.
I think it's gonna be somethingwe talk about in today's segment
a little bit, but we're all fansof the caps, uh, and so we
wanted to design a brand newsegment that we're gonna call B
(19:17):
two G Power plays.
All right.
So Megan, in this segment, uh,we're putting you in the role as
our head coach.
So we're gonna present you withsome challenging B two G
marketing scenarios, many ofwhich you've overcome in your
career.
(19:37):
Uh, and we want you to draw upyour best power plays.
What are, what, what are the,you know, how would you outline
a strategic moves to help usincrease visibility?
To achieve success, you know, aswe're in this market of selling
to the government, you, youready to share some, some drops
in plays for us.
Megan Battaglia (19:53):
Yeah, let's do it.
Austin McNair (19:54):
All right.
I love it.
So, Mary Blanche, I think you'rethe one who's gonna kind of run
us through the challenges today.
Why don't you get us set up withour, uh, our challenges.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (20:03):
Cool.
All right, let's do it.
So for scenario one, you aretasked with building out your
marketing function from a solorole to a small effective team.
You know, the importance of.
Diverse opinions, but the budgetfor new hires is tight and
external resources must bestrategically justified.
(20:25):
So in this scenario scenario, wewant you to kind of drop a
couple different plays for us.
So what is your phased approachto scaling your marketing team
and leveraging externalpartnerships to ensure robust
support and broad expertise, allwhile avoiding the one thought
process pitfall.
Megan Battaglia (20:44):
Yeah, for sure.
So I think a more phasedapproach when you're trying to
scale your team, especially whenyou don't have a large budget or
you're only going from one tomaybe three people, is to kind
of prioritize those T-shapedmarketers.
So somebody who's broad acrossthe channels, and then they're
(21:04):
deep in like one to two areas.
So they specialize in maybegraphic design or digital
marketing, but they have aknowledge base across
cybersecurity, ai, cloudtechnologies, and can do
multiple campaigns with multiplevendors kind of at a scale and
then.
Once you kind of have people whofill those gaps, then we've done
(21:28):
this in the past and, and otherpeople can do this as well.
It's like you hire thosefreelancers for specific events
or campaigns.
So like we will work with thirdparty like digital design teams
if we want to make a commercial.
'cause we do advertising on TVand we don't have the bandwidth,
(21:48):
nor do we have the budget tohire somebody who can
specifically just.
Do video editing and all thatstuff.
So that's where we'll kind ofstart to leverage, um, our
outside media vendors for moreof those like niche tailored
projects.
And then, of course, uh,leveraging your partnerships.
So in our space, we work veryclosely with all of our
(22:12):
manufacturer partners and while.
Those types of companies havelarger marketing teams at scale.
We kind of tap into theirfunding and resources and
collaborate with them to promotetheir products.
So I think you can leverage yourdifferent partnerships as well
when you don't have a largeteam.
'cause then you're getting thoseoutside perspectives and they're
(22:33):
the ones who are really going totailor the messaging of their
own solutions with yours.
And something that I always doand I still do now, even when I
was just a team of one and nowas a team of three, I always,
always, always ask for otherpeople's opinions that aren't
even on our marketing team.
So if I'm doing a cybercampaign, I'm meeting with our
(22:56):
SVP of cyber sales, I'm meetingwith our cyber CTO, I'm making
sure that.
Who we're partnering with andwhat messaging we're putting out
there, that it alignsstrategically with what our
sales team is doing.
Because sometimes it might we'llhave partners who have all this
money and they're like, let's dothis.
But if we're not selling them orit's not strategic, that's not
who we wanna go to market with.
(23:17):
So I wanna make sure that likeour technical team and our sales
team and marketing are allaligned and it kind of gives.
Different perspectives for acampaign.
So I think that's kind of a goodthing too, to add to your team
when you don't have a ton ofpeople already to provide
different outlooks.
Joe Pope (23:34):
So Megan, uh, one of the things that I think is
definitely a little more uniqueto the B two G space, and you
certainly can run across this insome of the other value added
resale type.
Breakouts, but certainly in thegovernment space where you do
actively resell services andprovide your, your support.
This idea of being able toleverage your vendor partners in
(23:55):
the marketing of Thundercat orwhatever your organization might
be, how do you typically, youknow, push that forward?
I mean, certainly there's othercompanies that are gonna try to
sell Dell or whatever it mightbe.
Uh, like how do you basicallymaximize that?
Is it, is there a process thatyou go through?
Megan Battaglia (24:13):
Uh, we, we do a lot of different types of
things, um, because it is such aniche market and, and everybody
kind of is working with the samevendors and things like that, so
there's a lot of governmentvendors like GovX, I've Gov,
CIO, merit Talk that aretailored to the government.
We also kind of like to takethat funding in those campaigns
(24:34):
and extend to the customeroutside of their nine to five
and reach them as just anindividual.
So when they're, they're drivinghome from work and they hear us
on the radio, or they're at aCAPS game and they see our
banners around the arena or onTV during an Orioles game or
something like that.
(24:55):
So we try.
I think it's good to kind oflook at a customer and not just
be like, okay, they're in afederal building in DC No, they,
they live in Maryland, they livein Virginia.
They're going to sporting eventswith their families, or they're
driving long hour commutes toand from the office.
So we try to extend reach thatway as well, and, and leverage
not only our own marketing, butthen like our partner marketing
(25:18):
too.
Austin McNair (25:18):
That I think is a big, uh, challenge for a lot of
professional services marketersin I, I think regardless of
industry, I think.
I, I've talked with so many ofour clients, prospects, people
in the industry where I thinkthey would dream about like, you
know, doing more of that.
Like, let's reach people outsideof their normal business hours.
(25:39):
But the, the question alwayscomes back to like, well, okay,
well what's the ROI, right?
Can you talk to us about how youovercame that objection?
Because I think, you know, interms of like a solo, solo
marketer, you know, trying toreally maximize impact, I love
that play of, you know, goingout and like being, doing more
brand awareness.
But how do you overcome thatobjection of ROI.
Megan Battaglia (26:01):
It's, it's a hard one.
And everyone in the marketingspace knows, like advertising
and ROI is very difficult whenit's not just straight B2C.
Like I'm not selling a t-shirt,that people are gonna go click
on an Instagram ad and and buyit.
Um, so for us, what we tend todo, or just me in general as
like a marketer, we built a kindof a dashboard to help track all
(26:26):
of our analytics.
So we're able to see, and I alsolike to do partnerships where.
We can see kind of liketimestamps and almost like,
okay, at this time is when ourcommercial ran during a game or
at this time is when an ad wasplaced on websites.
And then we kind of track on ourdashboard engagement on our
(26:48):
website.
If traffic has increased duringthat time, if certain pages on
our website are being looked atbased off the type of campaign
we're running.
So per se, if we wanna run acampaign in.
The state of New York targetingfinancial institutions and from
May 1st to June 1st, ourcommercial New York page on our
(27:09):
website had like 3000 more viewsthan normal that we can use as
kind of an example to like ourleadership and our sales team.
Like, Hey, this is contributingto the traffic.
And while you can't say, oh, Icontributed$10,000 this month at
first, but.
Working with the sales teams andbeing close with them we're,
(27:32):
it's an ongoing process thatwe're always trying to improve,
but right now we're in that areawhere it's like, as long as you
have the tools in place to justtrack different analytics,
that's really just a greatoption to start at.
I think.
Joe Pope (27:48):
How are you, how often are you all in a sense looking
at these analytics?
Is this kind of like a monthlytype thing or quarterly, or how,
how does that typically functionbetween you and the other
leaders at Thundercat
Megan Battaglia (28:00):
So I, I look at our analytics every week.
Joe Pope (28:03):
every day?
Yeah.
Megan Battaglia (28:04):
every day, but especially too, um, I.
In the space, like when newexecutive orders drop or
anything along those lines tosee like a spike in interest in
the company.
Like we will, we kind of trackthat.
But from just like a marketingteam, I'll, we'll run monthly
reports and so, we'll, we have asocial analytics tracker and we
(28:28):
looked to see, okay, how manynew people followed us on
LinkedIn, how many peopleengaged in what social posts
we're putting and.
Studying those trends to see,okay.
A lot of people liked moreelements on our website or on
our, um, LinkedIn page if it haslike a human element to it.
(28:50):
So when we're talking aboutpeople at Thundercat or places
will be, those are more engagedin than if you're just throwing
up an infographic.
And I think as long as you kindof keep that human element to
things, it's definitely.
It relates across any field orum, area.
Joe Pope (29:09):
Would there be any tactic, you know, you're growing
a small team, you know this, uh,Megan, I think you were
marketing employee number oneright at Thundercat, and now you
guys have gone through such, uh,significant growth.
Would there be something thatmaybe you did do over these last
eight, nine years that you wouldactually say, yeah, I didn't
really see.
And maybe put on the bench as apart of this power play unit.
Megan Battaglia (29:32):
I know this might be an unpopular opinion,
especially when it comes to, uh,government marketing.
'cause everybody is very leadgeneration focused, where
they're like, oh, if we're gonnado this campaign and we're
getting 400 leads, it's sogreat, but we could do an event
(29:53):
where there's only 25 to 50 andit's so much better.
So I would say.
Joe Pope (29:59):
Quality.
Megan Battaglia (29:59):
stages, I was probably focused more on
quantity rather than quality,just to show like engagement.
But now I definitely feel likeit's quality over quantity.
Like I'd rather have like 10really good sales qualified
leads than 300 marketingqualified leads.
Like it.
It's gonna, in the end, pay offmore, even if some of those.
(30:21):
Cost per leads are a little bithigher.
It just depends on like theactivity you're running.
So I would focus more and Istill, I know it is harder
today, especially with peoplebeing able to get travel
approved and budgets and allthat.
But anything that you can doface to face will always pay off
more than doing an onlinewebinar or something like that.
(30:44):
Like I'd rather sit down in abreakfast briefing.
And learn more from the customerabout what their challenges are
and have that interaction thanjust kind of like presenting a
solution, if that makes
Joe Pope (30:57):
Sure.
It absolutely does.
Austin McNair (31:00):
And I, and I think that actually reflects
some of the results that we seein our high growth study too,
Megan.
Um, when we asked governmentcontractors about, you know,
what are, you know, where do youput the most effort and where do
you see the most impact fromvarious marketing techniques.
It was all of the techniquesthat were like more personable
in human, that kind of.
(31:21):
Made it to the top of the list.
So things like marketingpartnerships and internal team
members, like doing nurturecalls to, you know, their, their
relationships.
And actually really high upthere on the list, exactly what
you just said.
Networking at targetedcampaigns, trade shows and
events.
It's like right there at the topfor level, uh, of impact.
(31:42):
So, um, we're getting it fromyour perspective.
We're also seeing in theresearch.
I think that's absolutely, um, atrend.
Megan Battaglia (31:48):
Mm-hmm.
And I think when people, whenpeople think about the
government, they just think ofthis like large.
Entity and they, and they tendto forget that there's like
actual people making decisionsover there and people that, like
our sales reps have formedrelationships with over the past
20 years.
So it, it tends to lose thatwhen, when you're initially
(32:11):
thinking of like marketing tothe government, you're just
thinking of like DC as a whole,but really it's still.
You wanna understand your, yourcustomer and the human element,
and like treat them as like abasic consumer.
Like what are their pain pointsand how can we make those
better?
Austin McNair (32:28):
All right.
So I think we got a lot out ofthat one.
Um, we go into our, our nextchallenge.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (32:35):
Yeah.
All right.
Let's do it.
So for our next scenario, yourfirm has a strong track record
of success in securing highvalue government contracts.
However, evolving procurementpriorities under a different
administration, such as a focuson vendor consolidation and
modifying contract structuresis.
(32:56):
Is reshaping how that visibilityis perceived.
Um, so how in this scenariowould you execute a B two G
marketing strategy that sustainscredibility and reinforces your
firm's value, while alsoaligning with evolving
government expectations and thenstill maintaining a constructive
(33:16):
presence among procurementdecision makers?
Megan Battaglia (33:19):
regardless of the administration that is in
office, it's always important tofocus kind of on that.
Mission outcome and that we'reimpactful and how we can provide
value, um, to the government andto the taxpayers as well.
Um, because obviously technicalsolutions that we're
(33:41):
implementing into thegovernment's infrastructure is
going to, at the end of the day,make America a better and safer
place for all Americans.
And that's what kind of.
Our mission is, and I think agood way to kind of market that
is through actual use cases andareas where you can show that
real time outcome.
(34:01):
Like for an example, how we'veworked with companies that can
provide AI solutions to stophuman trafficking.
And those are types of thingsthat will resonate with people
on that personal level and andkind of show like what we can do
and how we can be of value.
Joe Pope (34:19):
Yeah, I mean, I think everybody can get behind some of
those mission pieces too.
I mean, I think the word missionsometimes gets thrown around
quite a bit.
Uh, that's a, that's a definitegovernment contracting phrase.
Um, but when you do talk aboutresults and you know, the, the,
uh, the proof is in the puddingand, uh, you know, like we see
across any.
Professional service offering,whether you're providing
(34:40):
products or services or acombination of the both buyers
want to buy from the experts whoget results.
So I, I think that is a timehonored, tested in, in fact,
across professional servicesand, and, uh, you people can con
sometimes get away with that orget away from that.
And, uh, those are the folks whoI do think are probably more,
(35:00):
like you've said, moresusceptible to.
Dealing with the pains from apotential administration change
with some voter mandates orwhatever you want to consider
it.
Uh, and it, it, it's not, uh,it's not the place to be.
You wanna be doing what buyerswant to buy from.
They, you wanna be speaking intheir language.
Megan Battaglia (35:21):
Yeah.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (35:21):
there situations though where you ever
have to make changes to, tomarketing materials or websites
or, or anything like that?
Megan Battaglia (35:32):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, we constantly are havingto change our messaging.
It's just like.
It's basically like you wouldtreat an administration change
or anybody in the government,like if one of our contracting
officers changed and somebodynew was coming in, you're gonna
treat them how you would, anynew customer you wanna learn
kind of about their persona andwhat they're looking for and how
(35:54):
you can tailor your messagingtowards them.
So we're constantly having toevolve our website, our
messaging, and really tailoringit to the people who are are,
are looking at our stuff.
Austin McNair (36:06):
That makes a lot of sense, Megan.
One of the things that we see inour, um, in our high growth
study data comes again, kind ofwhen we think about like the
impact that governmentcontractors are getting from the
marketing techniques.
One of the things that stood outto us this year is that, um, the
fastest growing firms weregetting a lot of, uh, perceived
(36:28):
impact from.
Like writing for externalpublications or like other
digital PR opportunities, um,where they were kind of making
headlines about, you know, likesome of the stuff you were
talking about, right?
The ways that they'reaccomplishing the mission, some
of the storytelling behind that.
Um, the, the mission, the, the,all of that, that kind of stuff.
(36:49):
And maybe bringing those expertsinto channels that, you know,
are in that space.
Have you guys done any of that?
Do you see that as a tacticthat's, that works well for you?
Megan Battaglia (36:59):
W we have in the past.
I mean, it's always good to kindof have those thought leadership
pieces out in the press.
Um, we try to take a moresolution focused approach, um,
and we'll have our subjectmatter experts sit in on a panel
(37:20):
at a conference or an event andthen kind of take.
What they've spoke about thereand put that into a content
piece and then push that outinto the media as well.
So it kind of, it hits a fewareas.
You've got that in person piece,but then it's online too.
And I definitely think it'simportant to make sure that your
(37:41):
messaging is being pushed out tothe right audience For sure.
Austin McNair (37:48):
Going back to kind of our conversation earlier
about like how do you build theteam, like your marketing team
with like a small group, do youfind that it's better to try to
handle that more internally withlike firm leadership and kind
of, you know, what you have likeinternally or do you work with
external PR resources to helpsupport and amplify different,
uh, earned media opportunities?
Megan Battaglia (38:10):
We, that's something that we look for
outside.
So again, being a small company,sometimes that PR and
communication falls right on me.
And so I'm like, oh, I'm our PRteam, our publicist, our
marketing lead.
So, but I do think it'simportant'cause we also have a
legal team as well.
So the legal team is veryinvolved in, um.
(38:32):
Anything along that nature.
But there are specific companiesout there that tailor
specifically to PR towards thegovernment.
So we've, we've worked withthose companies before and it's
nice to kind of like give theminformation and they're able to
kind of take all of our thoughtsand so they almost like
(38:55):
interview us and then put thatinto a piece of.
Good content that is absorbableand easy for any, any customer
level to kind of understand itand get our point across.
Austin McNair (39:13):
All right.
So we've got one other scenarioslash challenge here for you.
Uh, so far I, I feel like I'velearned a lot about the
government space that, uh, Ihadn't really thought about it
that way before.
Um, mb what's our, what's ourlast challenge here?
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (39:31):
Yeah.
Okay.
So in this one, uh, you are incharge of your organization's
annual charity golf tournament,um, which we know has grown to
include over 50 sponsors, eachwith, uh, their own unique
funding process.
Your small marketing team isstretched thin and behind the
scenes, chaos is a constantthreat.
(39:51):
So in this scenario, what wouldyou say are your top three
operational power plays toensure a well-oiled machine for
this high stakes event?
So everything from sponsormanagement all the way to the
day of logistics.
Despite limited resources andthat inevitable, one thing that
(40:12):
goes wrong.
Megan Battaglia (40:14):
Yes.
Well, it's always hard to avoidthat one thing that goes wrong
because it's different everyyear.
Um, so you can't even predictit.
But how, I mean, we've beendoing a charity golf turnout for
eight years, and so we've kindof got a robust system down.
But I think for any.
Any company or any team that'slike looking to do just an event
(40:37):
in general, or if it is acharity event, is to be very
specific with team kind ofroles.
I think sometimes it's harderwhen you've got, even if it's
only three people, but you'reall doing the same things and
you don't know who's reachingout to who or.
Who's in, everyone's doinginvoicing and then two people
(40:57):
send the same invoice.
I think that that is where itcan get chaotic.
So we have a very big, we'vecreated almost like a playbook
of a spreadsheet, essentiallyour, we call it our master
spreadsheet, and everything isvery like tailored, like.
We have one, one person who'svery focused on doing the
invoicing and sending thosesponsorship confirmations and
(41:20):
being that kind of main liaisonbetween the partner and our
team, and then.
We have someone who does all ofour inventory and it's making
sure that what we have from lastyear is here this year, and then
what do we need to order andthen kind of ordering that
stuff.
And then we have someone veryfocused on sponsor procurement
and reaching out to the partnersand, and players and having them
(41:42):
come on board and, and havingsome local teams donate items to
the raffle and things like that.
So we try to make it very siloedas to kind of what roles each.
Person is doing.
And then at the end of the day,like it, you can only do so much
as a three person team or evenif you have a 10 person team.
So you'll always needvolunteers, um, from your
(42:04):
company or even like, you canhire outside companies as
volunteers too, but I think it'simportant to kind of have an
idea as to.
you want people stationed tothroughout the day and almost
kind of like delegate, like,you're in charge of this, you're
in charge of this table.
Um, but so that's kind of how welike focus it on.
(42:24):
I do think another, a thirdthing that I would say is
important to kind of plan out isthose prebuilt comms cadences,
where like six months out, savethe date, three months out, this
many sponsorships left this liketwo months out.
More information about thecharity.
Having those messages pre-builtis definitely something that's
(42:47):
gonna help.
And then kind of just relying onthat, again, personal connection
between like us and the partnersto build, um, sponsor
procurement.
So it would, I recommend peopledo golf tournaments.
No, it's, it's a lot.
It's, uh, it's kind of crazybecause you would think that all
(43:10):
you have to do is show up ingolf, but it's so much more,
more than that.
Joe Pope (43:15):
what I do.
Megan Battaglia (43:16):
yeah, Joe just shows up in golf, but, or
running around the back like,
Joe Pope (43:21):
Great event.
Megan Battaglia (43:22):
it's, and
Austin McNair (43:23):
No, I'm having flashbacks right now.
Megan Battaglia (43:26):
yeah, it's.
Austin McNair (43:27):
I'm having flashbacks right now because I
came outta the nonprofit spacewhere our community-based
nonprofit shout out to BrainInjury Services, they did a
charity golf tournament.
Every year.
And for three years I ran thatshow and oh my gosh, hearing you
go through that list of stuff,I'm like, oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
I mean, it is, it's basically afull-time job.
(43:47):
And that, uh, fortunately we didhave someone who was events
oriented there.
She was very, I.
Detail oriented, very, um, justlike, uh, like nearly a, she was
a perfectionist.
She had to be to kind of makeeverything run smoothly.
Um, but all those details, yeah,it, for me it was, it was such a
challenge.
Um, I wanted to ask, so in myexperience running a golf
(44:09):
tournament, one of the biggestconcerns every year was like,
how do you get the right peopleto show up?
Because at the end of the day,you or your organization is
investing a lot into.
Putting all this together,bringing all these people to the
table when it comes to like theactual people that show up and
they, you know, they're hittingthe tees, like, how can you make
sure that those are the rightpeople that you want to be in
(44:29):
front of?
Megan Battaglia (44:31):
So that kind of comes down to like our, our
sponsor procurement.
So most of the time.
Pretty much everybody who comesto play out is from our
industry.
So we really rely heavily kindof on our sales team's, like
personal engagement with thesereps, people that they know or
people that they want to comeout so that they have more time
(44:55):
to kind of develop thoserelationships with them.
So like we'll have, some of ourreps will go and play with
partners, and so they'll like beon their foursomes and then we
have a networking.
Reception afterwards.
So it's really kind of tailoredto that like one-on-one, um, rep
to rep engagement rather thanbeing customer focused since
(45:18):
it's a charity event, we'rethere for the charity, we're
there for, for everyone to havea good time and we really are
you leveraging it as a partnerkind of enablement engagement
event where it's something funthat people can come out and
enjoy all for a good cause.
Joe Pope (45:37):
Right.
It's a cultural piece too,right?
I mean, so in a sense, kind ofsetting your expectations from
the jump is, hey, we're, we'rehere for a charity and we're
here to continue to build ourrelationships up.
But you know, maybe, maybe we'renot gonna have the end user
customer as that target person,but we've checked those other
boxes.
So like having that expectationpiece.
(45:59):
Honestly, I think there's alesson to be taken from that.
In all marketing activities andtactics because, you know, it's,
it's not always about thatquantity of leads, right?
It's about the quality.
And if you can get quality usinga variety of different channels
and tactics, uh, then, then allmore power to it.
Megan Battaglia (46:17):
Yeah, you make, I mean, you make a good point.
It's, you almost have to marketyourself to your partners as
well as your customers.
So a lot of people just focus onmarketing to their customers,
but really you have to marketyourself to your partners
because they can go out andpartner with anybody and you
wouldn't be like, no, this iswhy you need to partner with me.
So it's, it's very important to.
(46:38):
Keep that relationship buildingwith them just as much as it is
to build those relationshipswith your customers.
Because a lot of times too, yourpartners are gonna trust your
relationships with yourcustomers and, and vice versa.
You'll trust the relationshipsthat the partner has with the
customer and it, everything iskind of built on trust
essentially.
Joe Pope (46:58):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you feel that, uh, you know,having run this for as many
years as you have and, and youknow, the fact that it's pretty
much taking up, you know, two 18hole courses now, I think, and
now you run this, uh, any, anylessons of activities or tactics
that you did in growing thisevent that you would, uh, shy
(47:18):
away from?
For example, I know you guys dida hit on the local news station
in the lead up and you weretouting the charity.
I mean, those all seem like.
No-brainers, especially ifyou've got the relationships
established for it.
But what's a, what's a tacticyou did in trying to grow this
event that didn't quite work?
Megan Battaglia (47:36):
Oh gosh.
Um, that's a tough one.
cause I think we didn't grow, wedidn't try to grow super fast.
Um, when we started eight yearsago, I think our first year we
only had maybe, maybe 30 lessthan.
(47:57):
Actually, no, we probably onlyhad like 15 sponsors.
Like, so it was very kind ofsmall to now compared to like
the 54 to 56 sponsor level thatwe do.
Um, I think something that Iwould, that's something I would
tell like people to avoid isdon't try to go too fast too
soon because then you are gonnaoutpace yourself, you'll outpace
(48:22):
your team and at the end of theday it's like.
Quantity over quality you wannathrow, you still wanna have a
good quality event rather thanjust a large event.
So I would say I would probablygo with that.
And then the second thing Iwould probably, I would've done
(48:43):
better at is definitely havingthat master sheet.
Built out from the verybeginning instead of trying to
just one person trackeverything.
I think that was very hard.
So definitely getting thoseroles assigned right away to
those specific people, and thenhaving them do those same things
(49:06):
every year as long as like your,your team's not turning over or
anything like that.
Um, now with with my team, we,we've been pretty solid for the
past four years together, sowe're at this point where.
Everyone kind of already knowswhat they need to do, but I
think, yeah, that's definitelysomething that I think it's hard
for a lot of like event plannersis to just feel like they need
(49:28):
to do everything themselves,which you can't do because you
will miss something.
Joe Pope (49:33):
Did when you guys launched this tournament, uh,
and, and just events in general.
Did, and now that you've kind ofgot your weld oil machine, I'm,
I, I know you kind of run itthrough the internal side, but
did you lean into outsideresources?
Did you bring on, for example,like an event coordinator and
so, so, so
Megan Battaglia (49:47):
We did.
Yeah.
So when I first started, um, inmarketing, I, I.
I was 22 years old.
I didn't, I didn't have theconnections that like I have
now, nor did I have theknowledge of the government
space like I have now.
And so I really, really reliedon the public sector marketing
(50:10):
community to.
Kind of not only build ourbrand, but build my knowledge
base too.
And there are several resourcesin, in this area and in the
public sector marketing spacethat are specific agencies,
marketing agencies, thirdparties who.
(50:31):
Who can help with those types ofthings.
And that was who I leaned on.
And they were the ones whohelped me come up with this idea
to do a charity golf tournament.
Because we were sitting therebrainstorming about different
events we could do.
And I said, I was like, youknow, all these partners
constantly ask us to sponsorgolf tournaments and, and our
team loves to golf, but we don'thave one.
(50:52):
We don't do one ourselves.
And they were like, well, whydon't you.
It, it would make sense like youguys are in that space.
So that's kind of just sittingaround the table.
There's like three of us justbrainstorming, um, was kind of
how we came up to it and Ipitched it to our CEO and he was
like, yeah, let's do it.
And I was like, alright.
So we, we worked with ouroutside, an outside vendor who
(51:13):
came in.
They kind of provided the day today like event management team.
'cause this was.
Before we even had a ton ofpeople at the company who could
volunteer.
We were still pretty small.
I think maybe we only had 60some people at the company at
that
Joe Pope (51:29):
how large are you all now, Megan?
Megan Battaglia (51:31):
we're around like one 40 now.
So it, it's grown so much sincethen.
And um, so once, yeah, so for afew years there, when I was
still a team of one, I had torely heavily on those outside
sources to help.
Run the team and, and eventmanagement companies are great
(51:52):
because they, it's what they do,it's their bread and butter.
So they come in, yeah, tell'emwhat they, you want and they
kind of help build out thatmaster spreadsheet, and then we
kind of use that as a templateand go from there.
Austin McNair (52:03):
All right, Megan, so I want to, I want to kind of
present you with one finalquestion here about what is your
ultimate power play?
I, I wrote down as you weretalking a, a, a few of the
things that you said, you, youtalked about quantity over
quality.
You talked about building trustwith your partners.
Uh, you said be about themission outcomes.
Uh, adjust your messaging toyour audience.
(52:27):
Reach buyers outside of theirnine to five and get outside
support.
Um.
What would you say is kind ofyour ultimate power play right
now for the BDG space?
Like what is the, what is theessential, you can't live
without it, kind of tactic playthat, that you go to right now?
Megan Battaglia (52:44):
I think the go-to is, is being that mission
outcome, focus.
I mean, it's like, just thinkabout your typical buyer.
When I go and buy something onAmazon, I'm looking for reviews.
I'm looking for photos.
Like I'm not gonna buy it unlessother people have.
So when you're focused on amission outcome and you have
those use cases that pe, that'swhat people wanna read.
(53:05):
They wanna be, what's yoursuccess story?
I don't think you can really.
Get better marketing than that.
Essentially,
Joe Pope (53:11):
Mm-hmm.
Austin McNair (53:13):
I love that.
Well said.
Well, Megan, thank you so muchfor joining us on, uh, spiraling
Up.
Where can people learn moreabout you?
Where can they learn more aboutThundercat?
Megan Battaglia (53:25):
they can go to thundercat tech.com or visit our
LinkedIn page and we'reconstantly posting out there.
Austin McNair (53:31):
Excellent.
I love you.
I love it.
So thank you so much for, forjoining, uh, the podcast today.
For those watching, make sureyou hit the like button,
subscribe, leave a rating ifyou've enjoyed the time today.
We love talking to guests andpractitioners like Megan.
Uh, we've got a lot of greatepisodes lined up.
So for for Joe, for MaryBlanche, myself, for Megan.
(53:52):
See you on the next one.
Take care everyone.
All right guys, let's rerecordthe introduction.
In today's episode of SpiralingUp, Google's VO three is here,
and I'm convinced we're doomed.
It's over.
Our team is gonna discuss, andthen we're gonna be joined by
(54:13):
Megan Bataglia, VP of marketingat one of the fastest growing B
two G firms in the country for agame of B two G Power plays.
Welcome everyone.
This is spiraling up with Hinge.
Oh, and one more thing.
I'm not really Austin or am I?
Ha ha.
You can be the judge.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (54:32):
Oh man.
Joe Pope (54:34):
Austin, I will say that Robot Austin is terrifying
In today's episode of Spiraling Up,
Google's VO three is here, andI'm convinced we're doomed.
It's over.
Our team is gonna discuss andthen we're gonna be joined by
(00:20):
Megan Bataglia, VP of marketingat one of the fastest growing B
two G firms in the country for agame of B two G Power plays.
Welcome everyone.
This is spiraling up with Hinge.
(00:40):
Welcome everyone to Spiraling Upthe podcast for professional
services marketers and businessleaders where professional
services marketing comes to lifethrough engaging interactive
discussions with industryleaders.
My name is Austin McNair, and asalways, I'm joined by my
colleagues Mary Blanche Kramer.
Hi, me
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (00:58):
Hey, hey.
Austin McNair (00:59):
and Joe Pope.
Joe, how's it going?
Joe Pope (01:02):
You for somebody.
You sounded so doomed in theintro read.
You're seeming pretty chipperright now.
Austin McNair (01:07):
I don't know what you're talking about.
We'll get to that topic in aminute.
Uh, as we get started, I wannasay thank you to all of our
listeners and those watching onYouTube support the show by
giving us a, like, subscribe tothe show.
Uh, we are just getting startedwith spiraling up, so every bit
of algorithm love will help usout a lot.
(01:28):
Joe Mb I'm excited to catch up.
We are in the season wherevacations are starting.
We just had Father's Day.
Joe, happy Father's Day to you.
Happy
Joe Pope (01:39):
You as well.
Austin McNair (01:40):
Although in Brazil, father's Day is in a
different, it's totallydifferent month.
It's in, it's not until August.
I don't know why, but it's, uh,it's different.
Uh, mother's Day is the same.
Every other holiday is prettymuch the same.
But Father's Day specialtreatment, I guess I get kind of
like one and a half versions ofFather's
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (01:58):
I love.
Austin McNair (01:59):
Joe, I saw that you were busy over the weekend
doing some beer brewing, somebarbecuing.
Tell us about that.
It looked really good.
Joe Pope (02:08):
I was busy pretending to be an Instagram influencer.
Emphasis on pretending, uh, no.
We, uh.
We decided as, uh, my neighborsand I, I, I live on a fun
cul-de-sac.
We all, you know, have kids goto the same schools and so
forth.
And, uh, we have similar morepassions.
Beer brewing is one of them.
(02:29):
Barbecue is another.
And uh, we decided that onSaturday for Father's Day, that
we would, uh.
We would document a, anInstagram reel story of our
attempt to brew two beers andsmoke a 10 pound brisket, uh,
over, you know, 10, 12 hours.
(02:50):
'cause honestly, it takes quitea long time.
So the brewing of the beer wasto fill the, the middle part
because frankly, if you knowanything about smoking meat, uh,
it really takes a lot longerthan you think it should.
Uh, but it was, it was a goodtime.
Uh, I would, I would give the.
The smoked brisket, uh, probablya six and a half out of 10.
I, I, the other folks seemed toreally like it.
(03:12):
I, uh, I actually originallybuilt my timeout for a seven
pound brisket, and if you addthree pounds to something, you
add multiple hours to something.
So I had to kind of pick it up alittle bit so we didn't eat it.
10 30 at night.
Beer brewing though, so this is,uh, yeah, it's something I got
into a few years ago and, and,uh, partially by request, uh,
(03:33):
Mary Blanche, uh, we created aknockoff of a Pacifico.
This is a pale lager Mexicanstyle beer.
And then we took it a step.
MB is very beer.
Uh, the, the, uh, the otherthing we did was to take that
beer and then pour five poundsof honey into it, which makes a
(03:55):
really alcoholic beer.
If you know anything aboutfermentation, sugar and honey,
and, you know, yeast makes a lotof.
Alcohols.
And so we have a Pacifico and wehave a honey Pacifico, and those
are our two beers.
Uh, those I would give a highranking to though we do have to
wait, a few months for them to,uh, do their thing.
Usually about five, six weeks,uh,
Austin McNair (04:16):
I was gonna
Joe Pope (04:17):
ready for
Austin McNair (04:17):
can we get a live taste test, uh, on, on, on air
in a future episode of SpiralingUp?
Maybe would that change thecontent warning on our, uh,
YouTube channel or something?
I, I don't know.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (04:28):
I'm
Joe Pope (04:28):
spiraling out, not spiraling
Austin McNair (04:30):
Yeah, that'll be the after hours podcast.
Mayor Blanc.
I know you were, you were backfrom a nice vacation out in,
what was it?
Hilton Head.
How was that?
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (04:40):
Yeah, it was good.
It was good.
We go there every year.
Um, there's a, it's a, it's agreat place to go, especially
for the age.
Nine girls are, they're eightand nine and um, yeah, like
beach pool, restaurants.
Joe Pope (04:50):
golf.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (04:51):
Yeah.
Um, it was also my mom's 70thbirthday while we were there, so
we gave a little celebration toher.
But yeah, it was a good time.
It felt like a short, um, ashort trip, but yeah, relaxing
and, and fun nonetheless.
Austin McNair (05:05):
Excellent.
Well, feeling refreshed.
Ready to go for another episodeof Spiraling Up.
Uh, we've got a great guest.
If anyone is in the two G spaceor anybody is, you know, does
any kind of, uh, selling to thegovernment.
You're gonna wanna stick aroundfor our interview with Meghan
Bataglia, super sharp, supersmart, um, uh, marketer, who's
(05:25):
been with her company for overeight years.
But first.
Why don't we get to this week'spivotal story?
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (05:31):
Alright, marketers, we need to talk
because the way we create andconsume video is about to be
completely unrecognizable.
Today we're exploring adevelopment from Google that is
set to dramatically reshape ourdigital ecosystem.
The launch of VO three.
This new text of video AI model,can generate incredibly
(05:53):
realistic.
Minute plus video clips withcomplex camera work and sound
all from a simple text prompt.
This capability is being calledastonishingly realistic and
transformative for the internet.
And one thing is for sure, thequality of this technology will
only increase from here, but thetool also brings many concerns.
(06:15):
What does the future of thedigital channels look like when
it's completely flooded with AIgenerated video content?
Now, Austin, I know you arepretty eager to talk about this
one.
Um, what are your thoughts onhow these tools could impact
professional services marketing?
Austin McNair (06:32):
I, I am full of thoughts.
You're right.
I mean, there is a part of mewhere I'm just thinking, yeah,
it's over.
We're doomed, we're cooked.
It's time to officially hit thepanic button.
People were panicking about SEO.
People
Joe Pope (06:48):
Not panicking about SEO anymore, are we?
Austin McNair (06:50):
No, no, no.
This is way bigger guys.
This is like, this is crazy.
I, I, I.
I think we crossed a threshold.
I, I think I published this onLinkedIn.
I, today's date doesn't reallymatter.
I published this on, on June 9thbecause it was, that was a
Monday and it was the weekendwhere I think it was like
raining down here.
(07:11):
Kids were sick.
I was inside a lot and I was onmy phone a lot, and it was the
first time where in my doomscrolling experience, I saw
videos where I was like, I don'tknow.
If that was a real person ornot.
And, and I consider myself to besomeone who's online quite a
bit.
You know, I'm in marketing, I'mfollowing the development of
(07:31):
this technology pretty closely.
And if I am already, I mean,this came out like three weeks
ago, VO three with Google, it'sbeen three weeks and this stuff
is already kind of hitting myfeed.
Um, and if I'm having a trouble,I, I just think a lot of people
are gonna have difficulty.
Deciphering what's real forwhat's not real, um, right now.
(07:54):
Um, so yeah, I have a lot ofconcerns.
Um, if I had to give one pieceof advice right now to marketers
is that, uh, don't pretend to bea sociologist.
Don't pretend to like you have acrystal ball.
None of us really know what'sgonna happen with this te this
technology.
And we need to be looking tothought leaders and influencers,
(08:18):
not ai like real people who arekind of processing this data and
following these changes reallyclosely.
I think it's gonna be one of thethings that we have to, um, pay
very close attention to, uh,over the next, I mean, forever.
Like I said, I mean, what nowthat we've crossed this horizon,
there's not any going back.
I mean, we're talking aboutvideo.
(08:39):
With sound that is generatedfrom text.
I mean, this is like, like yousaid, Mary Blanche only gonna
get like harder to decipher.
So, uh, in that spirit, Iactually wanted to show you guys
a video.
It's not an AI video, she's areal influencer.
Uh, her name is Ask Chat, askCat GPT.
(09:01):
Uh, she seems very smart onthese issues and I wanted to
show you guys a video she putout recently about this and get
your thoughts.
How does that sound?
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (09:08):
Yeah, let's do it.
Joe Pope (09:09):
We love bringing influencers in on this show.
Austin McNair (09:13):
All right, let's watch, uh, watch the video from
Kat.
Ask CatGPT (09:16):
I'm standing out against the flood of AI slop on
social media.
Audiences wanna follow andsupport creators that they know
are human.
Of course.
Then the question kind ofbecomes, well, how do you know
that I'm human?
Really, the negative side ofthis is that human creators
might find it's getting harderand harder.
Stand out within a sea of AIslop that has been engineered to
flood our brains with dopamineand human creators like me won't
(09:38):
stand a chance.
Number three squarely in thenegative camp is that the
internet becomes an unusablesource of information.
Real events areindistinguishable from
simulations and the truth.
Becomes unknowable.
Very, very negative.
Now, one ironically positiveside effect of this is that the
negative effects of fake newswill effectively go away.
If none of us trust anything wesee on the internet, then that
(09:58):
means that all of thedisinformation campaigns also
lose their bite.
Number five and number six aremore predictions around culture
and business.
First, if we can't trustanything we see online, then
certain things are gonna gain apremium, like in-person events
and physical media.
I call this.
The analog renaissance and thelast one.
When people get fatigued fromconstantly questioning what's
real, they'll retreat intothings that feel more realistic
(10:20):
because they're pre ai.
Think old YouTube DVD, becauseit feels safe and familiar.
Alright, what do you think?
Are you more on this side or onthis side?
Leave your thoughts in thecomments and for more non
pretentious, non patronizingeducation about ai, follow this
page.
Austin McNair (10:37):
I love
Joe Pope (10:37):
wanna be pretentious.
Yeah.
Austin McNair (10:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
We definitely don't.
Uh, so I, I think I've alreadykind of hinted that I'm more on
the pessimistic end of the, thespectrum here, but, uh, Joe,
Mary Blanche, I kind of wannaturn it over to you guys of the
kind of scenarios that shepainted there.
What stands out to you?
Joe Pope (10:57):
Well, I, I don't know if I would say pessimistic was a
good word for doom and gloom.
Austin, I think that's where youwere.
Uh, you, you kind of startedthis conversation.
I, I feel like, uh, miss Cat GPTbrought up some really
interesting points.
The analog Renaissance thing is,is I think we're seeing that
more and more, and honestlythere's precedence for that
anyways.
(11:18):
Uh, I mean, we're talking aboutthis now in terms of.
AI and, and digital and allthose types of things.
But even though it was like 10years, 20, 30 years ago as new
technologies, laser discs, CDs,MP threes, as we've kind of
worked our way through thesedifferent tech, there's always
kind of that longing for whatcame before.
(11:39):
So I, I think that there's adefinite tie there in terms of
where we might see folks and tobe.
What that might actually then dois for creators like, uh, mis,
cat, GPT, or, uh, we can evenstart to go up the bigger end of
the spectrum with the, the PaulBrothers and Mr.
Beast and so forth.
The folks that create originalcontent that have done a very
(12:02):
good job in growing their brandsand their reputations, I, I
don't see how those folks will,will lose.
If anything, I actually think ina lot of circumstances, they'll,
they'll gain, they'll winbecause of the nature of people.
Just like people like you,Austin, thinking that the
world's doom and gloom, uh,they're gonna go to what makes
sense, what makes, uh, whatmakes them happy and, and what
(12:22):
makes good connection to theirinterests.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (12:24):
it's perplexing, right?
Like this idea of not being ableto like living in a world where
you don't really know.
What you can and can't trust.
Um, so I think there's a lot ofvalidity to what she said in
terms of what that ultimatelycould look like.
Like I think that's a veryinteresting point talking about,
uh, the things that will gain,will gain a premium, like those
(12:45):
in-person events, um, you know,that subject matter expert that
you know that you can trust.
Um, so yeah, very, veryinteresting.
It's a very interesting time.
Austin McNair (12:56):
Yeah, I mean, I, I go back to some of the stuff
we've talked about, like whatare the strategies professional
services firms are gonna have tothink about.
In this era, right?
Because I, I have no doubt thatthis problem is going to
immediately make an impact inour sector, and especially for
marketers.
I mean, we are as professionalservices marketers, we are
(13:18):
marketing expertise.
We are marketing people.
So on one in one hand, on onehand.
There is an advantage that wehave, right?
Because our people areexpertise, you know, and people
are all different, right?
And as long as people'spersonalities are coming out and
people's true kind of technicalexpertise is being brought to
the table, being brought to thespotlight, then we should be
(13:41):
able to kind of rise above, youknow, AI slop for example.
But the challenge is, you know,as marketers going and
harnessing that out of experts,right?
Spending the time that it takesto actually get to know the
experts at your company andraising their, helping them
raise their profiles.
A lot of experts don't even wanttheir profile to be raised.
They're cool, kind of just beingbehind the scenes or, you know,
(14:04):
they're, they're cool, cool.
Being like that local superstar,just kind of with their clients.
But as marketers, it's a realchallenge, right?
Because out there in the spaceon, you know, on PLA channels
like LinkedIn or even your emailinbox, like.
All these places are gettingdisrupted rapidly.
And like I said, like for me,you know, it was my Instagram
feed and that changing like overone weekend, how quickly it's
(14:28):
like this technology came andboom, it's on my feed.
That, you know, the effects ofthese changes are gonna be
coming so quick and so fast.
And I think what marketers needto continue to do is like bring
that human side out in theirmarketing more.
Joe, I like what you said, itresonated with me as well.
Kind of that, um, analogrenaissance.
(14:50):
I think there's no doubt thatthat, that that's coming.
And B, we experienced that whenwe went to the, to the
conference a few months ago.
Right.
Just like how great it was beingthere with people, seeing people
face to face.
I mean, that.
A a, a pretty significantdifference.
What does like the end of thatlook like though?
I mean, this is the kind ofthing that I, I, it, I am a
(15:13):
little bit doom and gloombecause I'm doom and gloom on
the things, you know, the waythat we've done things are over,
you know, it's, it's, it's, weare stepping into kind of a
totally new frontier and it's,some of it will feel familiar,
especially that like analogrenaissance part, but a lot of
us are gonna be introduced tothings and trends and.
(15:35):
Um, challenges that we've neverseen before.
So I guess if I could offer onelast piece of advice, it would
be go follow influencers who aretalking about this, who are more
futuristic thinking, who are,um, guiding you and kind of
presenting you with strategiesand principles that go beyond
kind of the day in, day out.
(15:56):
Because we gotta have somethingthat we hold onto if we're
gonna, if we're gonna kind ofsurpass and kind of survive
through this.
Tidal wave of change that'scoming.
Joe Pope (16:05):
Yeah, Austin.
I, I think that's well said and,and a really good piece of
advice.
And, you know, other than thefact that I felt like you were
about to tee up, that theyshould just continue to follow
the Spiraling Up Podcast forsuch great information and
insights.
Um, I think you nailed it.
Austin McNair (16:19):
Well, absolutely, they absolutely should do that.
Uh, we will continue to talkabout this and we'll continue to
bring you guys interestingpivotal stories.
Um, great one mb thank you guys.
Um, I.
Let's turn now to, uh, what I'mreally excited about, a great
guest, super smart, super sharp.
We talk about bringing in apractitioner who knows what
(16:40):
she's doing and who has reallydeveloped her, uh, expertise in
her industry.
Very excited for ourconversation coming up with
Megan Bataglia.
All right.
I wanna Welcome to the podcast.
I.
Megan Battaglia.
Megan serves as the VicePresident of marketing at
Thundercat Technology, a servicedisabled veteran-owned small
(17:03):
business based out of Reston,Virginia.
Thundercat is a leadingsolutions provider to the United
States government, educationalinstitutions, and commercial
companies.
With over eight years ofexperience in strategic
marketing, branding, andcommunications, Megan leads.
All marketing efforts to enhancethe company's visibility, drive
(17:23):
business growth, and strengthenrelationships, uh, with key
customers and partner.
Megan, welcome to Spiraling Up.
Megan Battaglia (17:31):
Thanks guys.
Thanks for having me.
Austin McNair (17:33):
Absolutely.
It's nice to meet you.
Uh, of course, though, I, uh,we're meeting you for the first
time, but my understanding isthat you and Joe know each other
outside of the spiraling up andthe hinge and the Thundercat
world.
Tell us about that.
Megan Battaglia (17:47):
Yeah, so Joe and I, um, are friends to a
mutual friend, and I was agroomed woman and he was a
groomed man and his wedding, andso we spent a.
Week long trip down and outerbanks together.
So that's kinda how we know eachother.
And Joe likes to play in ourcharity golf tournament when I
can squeeze him in.
Joe Pope (18:06):
I've always been very appreciative, Megan, of when you
do squeeze me in, uh, usually,uh, joining with the iHeartRadio
crew, I think they always end uponly sending one or two folks.
So, uh, no, Megan, it's, it'sgreat to have you on and when we
were talking about guests, whenwe were creating this podcast,
I.
Uh, when it came to the B two Gspace, uh, you were the first
mind that came.
Uh, you were the first name thatcame to my mind, uh, as somebody
(18:28):
who I thought might have somefun with this format of a style
of a podcast, the no more boringpodcast approach.
Austin McNair (18:34):
I would echo that, Megan.
We're excited, we're excited tohave you on.
You know, we want to talk topractitioners, people that are,
you know, in the trenches everyday, and that can kind of bring
some of that industryperspective.
So, um, with that, that's how wekind of came up with today's.
Game.
Today's challenge, what we'regonna be talking about.
So Megan, when deciding whatgame to play today, um, we
(18:57):
decided that as fans of theWashington Capitals ourselves,
we wanted to give a nod to, uh,thundercats advertising
partnership with the WashingtonCapitals.
I think it's gonna be somethingwe talk about in today's segment
a little bit, but we're all fansof the caps, uh, and so we
wanted to design a brand newsegment that we're gonna call B
(19:17):
two G Power plays.
All right.
So Megan, in this segment, uh,we're putting you in the role as
our head coach.
So we're gonna present you withsome challenging B two G
marketing scenarios, many ofwhich you've overcome in your
career.
(19:37):
Uh, and we want you to draw upyour best power plays.
What are, what, what are the,you know, how would you outline
a strategic moves to help usincrease visibility?
To achieve success, you know, aswe're in this market of selling
to the government, you, youready to share some, some drops
in plays for us.
Megan Battaglia (19:53):
Yeah, let's do it.
Austin McNair (19:54):
All right.
I love it.
So, Mary Blanche, I think you'rethe one who's gonna kind of run
us through the challenges today.
Why don't you get us set up withour, uh, our challenges.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (20:03):
Cool.
All right, let's do it.
So for scenario one, you aretasked with building out your
marketing function from a solorole to a small effective team.
You know, the importance of.
Diverse opinions, but the budgetfor new hires is tight and
external resources must bestrategically justified.
(20:25):
So in this scenario scenario, wewant you to kind of drop a
couple different plays for us.
So what is your phased approachto scaling your marketing team
and leveraging externalpartnerships to ensure robust
support and broad expertise, allwhile avoiding the one thought
process pitfall.
Megan Battaglia (20:44):
Yeah, for sure.
So I think a more phasedapproach when you're trying to
scale your team, especially whenyou don't have a large budget or
you're only going from one tomaybe three people, is to kind
of prioritize those T-shapedmarketers.
So somebody who's broad acrossthe channels, and then they're
(21:04):
deep in like one to two areas.
So they specialize in maybegraphic design or digital
marketing, but they have aknowledge base across
cybersecurity, ai, cloudtechnologies, and can do
multiple campaigns with multiplevendors kind of at a scale and
then.
Once you kind of have people whofill those gaps, then we've done
(21:28):
this in the past and, and otherpeople can do this as well.
It's like you hire thosefreelancers for specific events
or campaigns.
So like we will work with thirdparty like digital design teams
if we want to make a commercial.
'cause we do advertising on TVand we don't have the bandwidth,
(21:48):
nor do we have the budget tohire somebody who can
specifically just.
Do video editing and all thatstuff.
So that's where we'll kind ofstart to leverage, um, our
outside media vendors for moreof those like niche tailored
projects.
And then, of course, uh,leveraging your partnerships.
So in our space, we work veryclosely with all of our
(22:12):
manufacturer partners and while.
Those types of companies havelarger marketing teams at scale.
We kind of tap into theirfunding and resources and
collaborate with them to promotetheir products.
So I think you can leverage yourdifferent partnerships as well
when you don't have a largeteam.
'cause then you're getting thoseoutside perspectives and they're
(22:33):
the ones who are really going totailor the messaging of their
own solutions with yours.
And something that I always doand I still do now, even when I
was just a team of one and nowas a team of three, I always,
always, always ask for otherpeople's opinions that aren't
even on our marketing team.
So if I'm doing a cybercampaign, I'm meeting with our
(22:56):
SVP of cyber sales, I'm meetingwith our cyber CTO, I'm making
sure that.
Who we're partnering with andwhat messaging we're putting out
there, that it alignsstrategically with what our
sales team is doing.
Because sometimes it might we'llhave partners who have all this
money and they're like, let's dothis.
But if we're not selling them orit's not strategic, that's not
who we wanna go to market with.
(23:17):
So I wanna make sure that likeour technical team and our sales
team and marketing are allaligned and it kind of gives.
Different perspectives for acampaign.
So I think that's kind of a goodthing too, to add to your team
when you don't have a ton ofpeople already to provide
different outlooks.
Joe Pope (23:34):
So Megan, uh, one of the things that I think is
definitely a little more uniqueto the B two G space, and you
certainly can run across this insome of the other value added
resale type.
Breakouts, but certainly in thegovernment space where you do
actively resell services andprovide your, your support.
This idea of being able toleverage your vendor partners in
(23:55):
the marketing of Thundercat orwhatever your organization might
be, how do you typically, youknow, push that forward?
I mean, certainly there's othercompanies that are gonna try to
sell Dell or whatever it mightbe.
Uh, like how do you basicallymaximize that?
Is it, is there a process thatyou go through?
Megan Battaglia (24:13):
Uh, we, we do a lot of different types of
things, um, because it is such aniche market and, and everybody
kind of is working with the samevendors and things like that, so
there's a lot of governmentvendors like GovX, I've Gov,
CIO, merit Talk that aretailored to the government.
We also kind of like to takethat funding in those campaigns
(24:34):
and extend to the customeroutside of their nine to five
and reach them as just anindividual.
So when they're, they're drivinghome from work and they hear us
on the radio, or they're at aCAPS game and they see our
banners around the arena or onTV during an Orioles game or
something like that.
(24:55):
So we try.
I think it's good to kind oflook at a customer and not just
be like, okay, they're in afederal building in DC No, they,
they live in Maryland, they livein Virginia.
They're going to sporting eventswith their families, or they're
driving long hour commutes toand from the office.
So we try to extend reach thatway as well, and, and leverage
not only our own marketing, butthen like our partner marketing
(25:18):
too.
Austin McNair (25:18):
That I think is a big, uh, challenge for a lot of
professional services marketersin I, I think regardless of
industry, I think.
I, I've talked with so many ofour clients, prospects, people
in the industry where I thinkthey would dream about like, you
know, doing more of that.
Like, let's reach people outsideof their normal business hours.
(25:39):
But the, the question alwayscomes back to like, well, okay,
well what's the ROI, right?
Can you talk to us about how youovercame that objection?
Because I think, you know, interms of like a solo, solo
marketer, you know, trying toreally maximize impact, I love
that play of, you know, goingout and like being, doing more
brand awareness.
But how do you overcome thatobjection of ROI.
Megan Battaglia (26:01):
It's, it's a hard one.
And everyone in the marketingspace knows, like advertising
and ROI is very difficult whenit's not just straight B2C.
Like I'm not selling a t-shirt,that people are gonna go click
on an Instagram ad and and buyit.
Um, so for us, what we tend todo, or just me in general as
like a marketer, we built a kindof a dashboard to help track all
(26:26):
of our analytics.
So we're able to see, and I alsolike to do partnerships where.
We can see kind of liketimestamps and almost like,
okay, at this time is when ourcommercial ran during a game or
at this time is when an ad wasplaced on websites.
And then we kind of track on ourdashboard engagement on our
(26:48):
website.
If traffic has increased duringthat time, if certain pages on
our website are being looked atbased off the type of campaign
we're running.
So per se, if we wanna run acampaign in.
The state of New York targetingfinancial institutions and from
May 1st to June 1st, ourcommercial New York page on our
(27:09):
website had like 3000 more viewsthan normal that we can use as
kind of an example to like ourleadership and our sales team.
Like, Hey, this is contributingto the traffic.
And while you can't say, oh, Icontributed$10,000 this month at
first, but.
Working with the sales teams andbeing close with them we're,
(27:32):
it's an ongoing process thatwe're always trying to improve,
but right now we're in that areawhere it's like, as long as you
have the tools in place to justtrack different analytics,
that's really just a greatoption to start at.
I think.
Joe Pope (27:48):
How are you, how often are you all in a sense looking
at these analytics?
Is this kind of like a monthlytype thing or quarterly, or how,
how does that typically functionbetween you and the other
leaders at Thundercat
Megan Battaglia (28:00):
So I, I look at our analytics every week.
Joe Pope (28:03):
every day?
Yeah.
Megan Battaglia (28:04):
every day, but especially too, um, I.
In the space, like when newexecutive orders drop or
anything along those lines tosee like a spike in interest in
the company.
Like we will, we kind of trackthat.
But from just like a marketingteam, I'll, we'll run monthly
reports and so, we'll, we have asocial analytics tracker and we
(28:28):
looked to see, okay, how manynew people followed us on
LinkedIn, how many peopleengaged in what social posts
we're putting and.
Studying those trends to see,okay.
A lot of people liked moreelements on our website or on
our, um, LinkedIn page if it haslike a human element to it.
(28:50):
So when we're talking aboutpeople at Thundercat or places
will be, those are more engagedin than if you're just throwing
up an infographic.
And I think as long as you kindof keep that human element to
things, it's definitely.
It relates across any field orum, area.
Joe Pope (29:09):
Would there be any tactic, you know, you're growing
a small team, you know this, uh,Megan, I think you were
marketing employee number oneright at Thundercat, and now you
guys have gone through such, uh,significant growth.
Would there be something thatmaybe you did do over these last
eight, nine years that you wouldactually say, yeah, I didn't
really see.
And maybe put on the bench as apart of this power play unit.
Megan Battaglia (29:32):
I know this might be an unpopular opinion,
especially when it comes to, uh,government marketing.
'cause everybody is very leadgeneration focused, where
they're like, oh, if we're gonnado this campaign and we're
getting 400 leads, it's sogreat, but we could do an event
(29:53):
where there's only 25 to 50 andit's so much better.
So I would say.
Joe Pope (29:59):
Quality.
Megan Battaglia (29:59):
stages, I was probably focused more on
quantity rather than quality,just to show like engagement.
But now I definitely feel likeit's quality over quantity.
Like I'd rather have like 10really good sales qualified
leads than 300 marketingqualified leads.
Like it.
It's gonna, in the end, pay offmore, even if some of those.
(30:21):
Cost per leads are a little bithigher.
It just depends on like theactivity you're running.
So I would focus more and Istill, I know it is harder
today, especially with peoplebeing able to get travel
approved and budgets and allthat.
But anything that you can doface to face will always pay off
more than doing an onlinewebinar or something like that.
(30:44):
Like I'd rather sit down in abreakfast briefing.
And learn more from the customerabout what their challenges are
and have that interaction thanjust kind of like presenting a
solution, if that makes
Joe Pope (30:57):
Sure.
It absolutely does.
Austin McNair (31:00):
And I, and I think that actually reflects
some of the results that we seein our high growth study too,
Megan.
Um, when we asked governmentcontractors about, you know,
what are, you know, where do youput the most effort and where do
you see the most impact fromvarious marketing techniques.
It was all of the techniquesthat were like more personable
in human, that kind of.
(31:21):
Made it to the top of the list.
So things like marketingpartnerships and internal team
members, like doing nurturecalls to, you know, their, their
relationships.
And actually really high upthere on the list, exactly what
you just said.
Networking at targetedcampaigns, trade shows and
events.
It's like right there at the topfor level, uh, of impact.
(31:42):
So, um, we're getting it fromyour perspective.
We're also seeing in theresearch.
I think that's absolutely, um, atrend.
Megan Battaglia (31:48):
Mm-hmm.
And I think when people, whenpeople think about the
government, they just think ofthis like large.
Entity and they, and they tendto forget that there's like
actual people making decisionsover there and people that, like
our sales reps have formedrelationships with over the past
20 years.
So it, it tends to lose thatwhen, when you're initially
(32:11):
thinking of like marketing tothe government, you're just
thinking of like DC as a whole,but really it's still.
You wanna understand your, yourcustomer and the human element,
and like treat them as like abasic consumer.
Like what are their pain pointsand how can we make those
better?
Austin McNair (32:28):
All right.
So I think we got a lot out ofthat one.
Um, we go into our, our nextchallenge.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (32:35):
Yeah.
All right.
Let's do it.
So for our next scenario, yourfirm has a strong track record
of success in securing highvalue government contracts.
However, evolving procurementpriorities under a different
administration, such as a focuson vendor consolidation and
modifying contract structuresis.
(32:56):
Is reshaping how that visibilityis perceived.
Um, so how in this scenariowould you execute a B two G
marketing strategy that sustainscredibility and reinforces your
firm's value, while alsoaligning with evolving
government expectations and thenstill maintaining a constructive
(33:16):
presence among procurementdecision makers?
Megan Battaglia (33:19):
regardless of the administration that is in
office, it's always important tofocus kind of on that.
Mission outcome and that we'reimpactful and how we can provide
value, um, to the government andto the taxpayers as well.
Um, because obviously technicalsolutions that we're
(33:41):
implementing into thegovernment's infrastructure is
going to, at the end of the day,make America a better and safer
place for all Americans.
And that's what kind of.
Our mission is, and I think agood way to kind of market that
is through actual use cases andareas where you can show that
real time outcome.
(34:01):
Like for an example, how we'veworked with companies that can
provide AI solutions to stophuman trafficking.
And those are types of thingsthat will resonate with people
on that personal level and andkind of show like what we can do
and how we can be of value.
Joe Pope (34:19):
Yeah, I mean, I think everybody can get behind some of
those mission pieces too.
I mean, I think the word missionsometimes gets thrown around
quite a bit.
Uh, that's a, that's a definitegovernment contracting phrase.
Um, but when you do talk aboutresults and you know, the, the,
uh, the proof is in the puddingand, uh, you know, like we see
across any.
Professional service offering,whether you're providing
(34:40):
products or services or acombination of the both buyers
want to buy from the experts whoget results.
So I, I think that is a timehonored, tested in, in fact,
across professional servicesand, and, uh, you people can con
sometimes get away with that orget away from that.
And, uh, those are the folks whoI do think are probably more,
(35:00):
like you've said, moresusceptible to.
Dealing with the pains from apotential administration change
with some voter mandates orwhatever you want to consider
it.
Uh, and it, it, it's not, uh,it's not the place to be.
You wanna be doing what buyerswant to buy from.
They, you wanna be speaking intheir language.
Megan Battaglia (35:21):
Yeah.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (35:21):
there situations though where you ever
have to make changes to, tomarketing materials or websites
or, or anything like that?
Megan Battaglia (35:32):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, we constantly are havingto change our messaging.
It's just like.
It's basically like you wouldtreat an administration change
or anybody in the government,like if one of our contracting
officers changed and somebodynew was coming in, you're gonna
treat them how you would, anynew customer you wanna learn
kind of about their persona andwhat they're looking for and how
(35:54):
you can tailor your messagingtowards them.
So we're constantly having toevolve our website, our
messaging, and really tailoringit to the people who are are,
are looking at our stuff.
Austin McNair (36:06):
That makes a lot of sense, Megan.
One of the things that we see inour, um, in our high growth
study data comes again, kind ofwhen we think about like the
impact that governmentcontractors are getting from the
marketing techniques.
One of the things that stood outto us this year is that, um, the
fastest growing firms weregetting a lot of, uh, perceived
(36:28):
impact from.
Like writing for externalpublications or like other
digital PR opportunities, um,where they were kind of making
headlines about, you know, likesome of the stuff you were
talking about, right?
The ways that they'reaccomplishing the mission, some
of the storytelling behind that.
Um, the, the mission, the, the,all of that, that kind of stuff.
(36:49):
And maybe bringing those expertsinto channels that, you know,
are in that space.
Have you guys done any of that?
Do you see that as a tacticthat's, that works well for you?
Megan Battaglia (36:59):
W we have in the past.
I mean, it's always good to kindof have those thought leadership
pieces out in the press.
Um, we try to take a moresolution focused approach, um,
and we'll have our subjectmatter experts sit in on a panel
(37:20):
at a conference or an event andthen kind of take.
What they've spoke about thereand put that into a content
piece and then push that outinto the media as well.
So it kind of, it hits a fewareas.
You've got that in person piece,but then it's online too.
And I definitely think it'simportant to make sure that your
(37:41):
messaging is being pushed out tothe right audience For sure.
Austin McNair (37:48):
Going back to kind of our conversation earlier
about like how do you build theteam, like your marketing team
with like a small group, do youfind that it's better to try to
handle that more internally withlike firm leadership and kind
of, you know, what you have likeinternally or do you work with
external PR resources to helpsupport and amplify different,
uh, earned media opportunities?
Megan Battaglia (38:10):
We, that's something that we look for
outside.
So again, being a small company,sometimes that PR and
communication falls right on me.
And so I'm like, oh, I'm our PRteam, our publicist, our
marketing lead.
So, but I do think it'simportant'cause we also have a
legal team as well.
So the legal team is veryinvolved in, um.
(38:32):
Anything along that nature.
But there are specific companiesout there that tailor
specifically to PR towards thegovernment.
So we've, we've worked withthose companies before and it's
nice to kind of like give theminformation and they're able to
kind of take all of our thoughtsand so they almost like
(38:55):
interview us and then put thatinto a piece of.
Good content that is absorbableand easy for any, any customer
level to kind of understand itand get our point across.
Austin McNair (39:13):
All right.
So we've got one other scenarioslash challenge here for you.
Uh, so far I, I feel like I'velearned a lot about the
government space that, uh, Ihadn't really thought about it
that way before.
Um, mb what's our, what's ourlast challenge here?
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (39:31):
Yeah.
Okay.
So in this one, uh, you are incharge of your organization's
annual charity golf tournament,um, which we know has grown to
include over 50 sponsors, eachwith, uh, their own unique
funding process.
Your small marketing team isstretched thin and behind the
scenes, chaos is a constantthreat.
(39:51):
So in this scenario, what wouldyou say are your top three
operational power plays toensure a well-oiled machine for
this high stakes event?
So everything from sponsormanagement all the way to the
day of logistics.
Despite limited resources andthat inevitable, one thing that
(40:12):
goes wrong.
Megan Battaglia (40:14):
Yes.
Well, it's always hard to avoidthat one thing that goes wrong
because it's different everyyear.
Um, so you can't even predictit.
But how, I mean, we've beendoing a charity golf turnout for
eight years, and so we've kindof got a robust system down.
But I think for any.
Any company or any team that'slike looking to do just an event
(40:37):
in general, or if it is acharity event, is to be very
specific with team kind ofroles.
I think sometimes it's harderwhen you've got, even if it's
only three people, but you'reall doing the same things and
you don't know who's reachingout to who or.
Who's in, everyone's doinginvoicing and then two people
(40:57):
send the same invoice.
I think that that is where itcan get chaotic.
So we have a very big, we'vecreated almost like a playbook
of a spreadsheet, essentiallyour, we call it our master
spreadsheet, and everything isvery like tailored, like.
We have one, one person who'svery focused on doing the
invoicing and sending thosesponsorship confirmations and
(41:20):
being that kind of main liaisonbetween the partner and our
team, and then.
We have someone who does all ofour inventory and it's making
sure that what we have from lastyear is here this year, and then
what do we need to order andthen kind of ordering that
stuff.
And then we have someone veryfocused on sponsor procurement
and reaching out to the partnersand, and players and having them
(41:42):
come on board and, and havingsome local teams donate items to
the raffle and things like that.
So we try to make it very siloedas to kind of what roles each.
Person is doing.
And then at the end of the day,like it, you can only do so much
as a three person team or evenif you have a 10 person team.
So you'll always needvolunteers, um, from your
(42:04):
company or even like, you canhire outside companies as
volunteers too, but I think it'simportant to kind of have an
idea as to.
you want people stationed tothroughout the day and almost
kind of like delegate, like,you're in charge of this, you're
in charge of this table.
Um, but so that's kind of how welike focus it on.
(42:24):
I do think another, a thirdthing that I would say is
important to kind of plan out isthose prebuilt comms cadences,
where like six months out, savethe date, three months out, this
many sponsorships left this liketwo months out.
More information about thecharity.
Having those messages pre-builtis definitely something that's
(42:47):
gonna help.
And then kind of just relying onthat, again, personal connection
between like us and the partnersto build, um, sponsor
procurement.
So it would, I recommend peopledo golf tournaments.
No, it's, it's a lot.
It's, uh, it's kind of crazybecause you would think that all
(43:10):
you have to do is show up ingolf, but it's so much more,
more than that.
Joe Pope (43:15):
what I do.
Megan Battaglia (43:16):
yeah, Joe just shows up in golf, but, or
running around the back like,
Joe Pope (43:21):
Great event.
Megan Battaglia (43:22):
it's, and
Austin McNair (43:23):
No, I'm having flashbacks right now.
Megan Battaglia (43:26):
yeah, it's.
Austin McNair (43:27):
I'm having flashbacks right now because I
came outta the nonprofit spacewhere our community-based
nonprofit shout out to BrainInjury Services, they did a
charity golf tournament.
Every year.
And for three years I ran thatshow and oh my gosh, hearing you
go through that list of stuff,I'm like, oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
I mean, it is, it's basically afull-time job.
(43:47):
And that, uh, fortunately we didhave someone who was events
oriented there.
She was very, I.
Detail oriented, very, um, justlike, uh, like nearly a, she was
a perfectionist.
She had to be to kind of makeeverything run smoothly.
Um, but all those details, yeah,it, for me it was, it was such a
challenge.
Um, I wanted to ask, so in myexperience running a golf
(44:09):
tournament, one of the biggestconcerns every year was like,
how do you get the right peopleto show up?
Because at the end of the day,you or your organization is
investing a lot into.
Putting all this together,bringing all these people to the
table when it comes to like theactual people that show up and
they, you know, they're hittingthe tees, like, how can you make
sure that those are the rightpeople that you want to be in
(44:29):
front of?
Megan Battaglia (44:31):
So that kind of comes down to like our, our
sponsor procurement.
So most of the time.
Pretty much everybody who comesto play out is from our
industry.
So we really rely heavily kindof on our sales team's, like
personal engagement with thesereps, people that they know or
people that they want to comeout so that they have more time
(44:55):
to kind of develop thoserelationships with them.
So like we'll have, some of ourreps will go and play with
partners, and so they'll like beon their foursomes and then we
have a networking.
Reception afterwards.
So it's really kind of tailoredto that like one-on-one, um, rep
to rep engagement rather thanbeing customer focused since
(45:18):
it's a charity event, we'rethere for the charity, we're
there for, for everyone to havea good time and we really are
you leveraging it as a partnerkind of enablement engagement
event where it's something funthat people can come out and
enjoy all for a good cause.
Joe Pope (45:37):
Right.
It's a cultural piece too,right?
I mean, so in a sense, kind ofsetting your expectations from
the jump is, hey, we're, we'rehere for a charity and we're
here to continue to build ourrelationships up.
But you know, maybe, maybe we'renot gonna have the end user
customer as that target person,but we've checked those other
boxes.
So like having that expectationpiece.
(45:59):
Honestly, I think there's alesson to be taken from that.
In all marketing activities andtactics because, you know, it's,
it's not always about thatquantity of leads, right?
It's about the quality.
And if you can get quality usinga variety of different channels
and tactics, uh, then, then allmore power to it.
Megan Battaglia (46:17):
Yeah, you make, I mean, you make a good point.
It's, you almost have to marketyourself to your partners as
well as your customers.
So a lot of people just focus onmarketing to their customers,
but really you have to marketyourself to your partners
because they can go out andpartner with anybody and you
wouldn't be like, no, this iswhy you need to partner with me.
So it's, it's very important to.
(46:38):
Keep that relationship buildingwith them just as much as it is
to build those relationshipswith your customers.
Because a lot of times too, yourpartners are gonna trust your
relationships with yourcustomers and, and vice versa.
You'll trust the relationshipsthat the partner has with the
customer and it, everything iskind of built on trust
essentially.
Joe Pope (46:58):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Do you feel that, uh, you know,having run this for as many
years as you have and, and youknow, the fact that it's pretty
much taking up, you know, two 18hole courses now, I think, and
now you run this, uh, any, anylessons of activities or tactics
that you did in growing thisevent that you would, uh, shy
(47:18):
away from?
For example, I know you guys dida hit on the local news station
in the lead up and you weretouting the charity.
I mean, those all seem like.
No-brainers, especially ifyou've got the relationships
established for it.
But what's a, what's a tacticyou did in trying to grow this
event that didn't quite work?
Megan Battaglia (47:36):
Oh gosh.
Um, that's a tough one.
cause I think we didn't grow, wedidn't try to grow super fast.
Um, when we started eight yearsago, I think our first year we
only had maybe, maybe 30 lessthan.
(47:57):
Actually, no, we probably onlyhad like 15 sponsors.
Like, so it was very kind ofsmall to now compared to like
the 54 to 56 sponsor level thatwe do.
Um, I think something that Iwould, that's something I would
tell like people to avoid isdon't try to go too fast too
soon because then you are gonnaoutpace yourself, you'll outpace
(48:22):
your team and at the end of theday it's like.
Quantity over quality you wannathrow, you still wanna have a
good quality event rather thanjust a large event.
So I would say I would probablygo with that.
And then the second thing Iwould probably, I would've done
(48:43):
better at is definitely havingthat master sheet.
Built out from the verybeginning instead of trying to
just one person trackeverything.
I think that was very hard.
So definitely getting thoseroles assigned right away to
those specific people, and thenhaving them do those same things
(49:06):
every year as long as like your,your team's not turning over or
anything like that.
Um, now with with my team, we,we've been pretty solid for the
past four years together, sowe're at this point where.
Everyone kind of already knowswhat they need to do, but I
think, yeah, that's definitelysomething that I think it's hard
for a lot of like event plannersis to just feel like they need
(49:28):
to do everything themselves,which you can't do because you
will miss something.
Joe Pope (49:33):
Did when you guys launched this tournament, uh,
and, and just events in general.
Did, and now that you've kind ofgot your weld oil machine, I'm,
I, I know you kind of run itthrough the internal side, but
did you lean into outsideresources?
Did you bring on, for example,like an event coordinator and
so, so, so
Megan Battaglia (49:47):
We did.
Yeah.
So when I first started, um, inmarketing, I, I.
I was 22 years old.
I didn't, I didn't have theconnections that like I have
now, nor did I have theknowledge of the government
space like I have now.
And so I really, really reliedon the public sector marketing
(50:10):
community to.
Kind of not only build ourbrand, but build my knowledge
base too.
And there are several resourcesin, in this area and in the
public sector marketing spacethat are specific agencies,
marketing agencies, thirdparties who.
(50:31):
Who can help with those types ofthings.
And that was who I leaned on.
And they were the ones whohelped me come up with this idea
to do a charity golf tournament.
Because we were sitting therebrainstorming about different
events we could do.
And I said, I was like, youknow, all these partners
constantly ask us to sponsorgolf tournaments and, and our
team loves to golf, but we don'thave one.
(50:52):
We don't do one ourselves.
And they were like, well, whydon't you.
It, it would make sense like youguys are in that space.
So that's kind of just sittingaround the table.
There's like three of us justbrainstorming, um, was kind of
how we came up to it and Ipitched it to our CEO and he was
like, yeah, let's do it.
And I was like, alright.
So we, we worked with ouroutside, an outside vendor who
(51:13):
came in.
They kind of provided the day today like event management team.
'cause this was.
Before we even had a ton ofpeople at the company who could
volunteer.
We were still pretty small.
I think maybe we only had 60some people at the company at
that
Joe Pope (51:29):
how large are you all now, Megan?
Megan Battaglia (51:31):
we're around like one 40 now.
So it, it's grown so much sincethen.
And um, so once, yeah, so for afew years there, when I was
still a team of one, I had torely heavily on those outside
sources to help.
Run the team and, and eventmanagement companies are great
(51:52):
because they, it's what they do,it's their bread and butter.
So they come in, yeah, tell'emwhat they, you want and they
kind of help build out thatmaster spreadsheet, and then we
kind of use that as a templateand go from there.
Austin McNair (52:03):
All right, Megan, so I want to, I want to kind of
present you with one finalquestion here about what is your
ultimate power play?
I, I wrote down as you weretalking a, a, a few of the
things that you said, you, youtalked about quantity over
quality.
You talked about building trustwith your partners.
Uh, you said be about themission outcomes.
Uh, adjust your messaging toyour audience.
(52:27):
Reach buyers outside of theirnine to five and get outside
support.
Um.
What would you say is kind ofyour ultimate power play right
now for the BDG space?
Like what is the, what is theessential, you can't live
without it, kind of tactic playthat, that you go to right now?
Megan Battaglia (52:44):
I think the go-to is, is being that mission
outcome, focus.
I mean, it's like, just thinkabout your typical buyer.
When I go and buy something onAmazon, I'm looking for reviews.
I'm looking for photos.
Like I'm not gonna buy it unlessother people have.
So when you're focused on amission outcome and you have
those use cases that pe, that'swhat people wanna read.
(53:05):
They wanna be, what's yoursuccess story?
I don't think you can really.
Get better marketing than that.
Essentially,
Joe Pope (53:11):
Mm-hmm.
Austin McNair (53:13):
I love that.
Well said.
Well, Megan, thank you so muchfor joining us on, uh, spiraling
Up.
Where can people learn moreabout you?
Where can they learn more aboutThundercat?
Megan Battaglia (53:25):
they can go to thundercat tech.com or visit our
LinkedIn page and we'reconstantly posting out there.
Austin McNair (53:31):
Excellent.
I love you.
I love it.
So thank you so much for, forjoining, uh, the podcast today.
For those watching, make sureyou hit the like button,
subscribe, leave a rating ifyou've enjoyed the time today.
We love talking to guests andpractitioners like Megan.
Uh, we've got a lot of greatepisodes lined up.
So for for Joe, for MaryBlanche, myself, for Megan.
(53:52):
See you on the next one.
Take care everyone.
All right guys, let's rerecordthe introduction.
In today's episode of SpiralingUp, Google's VO three is here,
and I'm convinced we're doomed.
It's over.
Our team is gonna discuss, andthen we're gonna be joined by
(54:13):
Megan Bataglia, VP of marketingat one of the fastest growing B
two G firms in the country for agame of B two G Power plays.
Welcome everyone.
This is spiraling up with Hinge.
Oh, and one more thing.
I'm not really Austin or am I?
Ha ha.
You can be the judge.
Mary-Blanche Kraemer (54:32):
Oh man.
Joe Pope (54:34):
Austin, I will say that Robot Austin is terrifying
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