March 26, 2025 • 54 mins
How do High Growth professional services firms go to market today? Download the 2025 High Growth Study to find out: https://www.hingemarketing.com/highgrowth
In today's episode of Spiraling Up, Austin, Joe, and MB explore the new challenges marketing faces in professional services, especially with the rising influence of AI and automation. Then, they channel the excitement of the NFL Draft by hosting the inaugural marketing tactic draft where each host picks from a selection of high growth efforts to build a championship-caliber campaign for 2025. In this conversation, we cover:
- How AI is changing professional services marketing
- The top challenge marketers want to learn about in 2025
- Differences between networking and speaking at conferences
- The strategic impact of thought leadership and content creation
- Ways social media advertising is being leveraged in B2B
- Effective approaches to presenting in webinars
- The importance of incorporating PR in your marketing strategy
- The role of video blogging in expanding expertise and visibility
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Austin McNair (00:00):
Um, In today's episode of spiraling up, our
team looks at the new biggestchallenge in professional
services, marketing, and then MBJoe and I will face off in our
first ever NFL style marketingdraft.
It is going to be a great time.
Welcome everybody.
This is spiraling up with hingemarketing.
(00:22):
All right.
Well, welcome back to spiralingup with hinge marketing.
Look, we are just gettingstarted with this new podcast.
So if you're here with us fortoday's episode, let me say,
thank you for joining us.
Thanks for, for, for, uh,joining us for these early
episodes.
(00:43):
Our vision for this podcast issimple.
We want to create a podcast thatis insightful for marketers and
leaders at professional servicesfirms.
And we want to have some funalong the way.
Joe, MB, how are you guys doingtoday?
Uh, you guys ready to getstarted?
Joe Pope (00:59):
I don't think we can officially get started until I
make some sort of reference tothe weather.
That's how these meetings go,right?
Austin McNair (01:05):
How's everything going then in the middle of
March for you guys in Virginia?
Mary Blanche (01:10):
we are glad to be done with the snow.
Uh, we had quite a snowy, uh,winter here in Virginia.
Um, but it's been what, like.
High sixties, almost, we hadalmost a 70 degree day.
So I am, I am here for spring.
Joe Pope (01:26):
I've been watching, uh, your surf videos, Austin.
South side of the globe.
Uh, and jealousy has reignedsupreme, so I'm, you know, in
addition to just poking fun atthe fact that we're talking
about the weather, I am alsojust really excited to be
hitting the beach up prettysoon.
Austin McNair (01:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean the jealousy cuts bothways, right?
Whenever you guys are in winter,I'm in summer for people that
don't know.
I'm, I'm living down in SouthernBrazil with my family.
Um, and yeah, we just had aglorious, uh, summer season,
carnival season.
Things are, you know, alwayslots of energy and now things
are starting to cool off.
Some of the tourists are headingback to their daily life.
(02:03):
So, uh, but yeah, things are,things are going well.
I'm excited to talk about, um,this, this episode, we've got
some fun things planned today.
M.
B., why don't we start with ourpivotal story for today?
Mary Blanche (02:15):
All right, let's do it.
Welcome back to Pivotal Stories,where we explore the
intersection of marketing,business trends, and the wider
world.
Now, we've been delving intoHinge's recently released high
growth study for 2025, and oneof the most striking findings
this year has been a significantshift in the challenges faced by
professional services firms.
For years, navigatinguncertainty in the marketplace
(02:36):
has taken the number one spot,but this year's study revealed a
new top contender, which isincorporating AI in automation.
High growth firms are not onlyrecognizing this challenge, but
they're actively seeking tounderstand and leverage AI's
potential.
In fact, AI is the top trendthat they want to learn more
about in 2025.
So what I want to know is howare you guys seeing AI influence
(02:58):
your day to day lives and yourwork life at Hinge?
Joe Pope (03:02):
Yeah, I think it's natural, honestly.
Let's just think about it fromthe perspective of how AI is
kind of Dominated our lives,right?
And how it's just we've gonefrom everybody's 1st experience
with AI being Alexa and it'ssorry.
Alexa is about to go off rightnext to me.
Apologies.
Stop.
But we've gone from that beingeverybody's 1st expectation or
(03:23):
experience with the tool, thefunctionality, the ability to
have something in your backpocket to support you to now
it's ingrained across.
Everything we do, I, I, MB andI, uh, I think we, we both
picked up a new vehicle recentlyand, and this thing's got the
ability for us to talk to it.
It might even drive itselfrealistically.
And that shift has happened soquickly.
(03:45):
It's only natural then to seeit.
Infused in how people are doingtheir work on a day to day basis
I know we can definitely diveinto some of those different
pieces to moving intoefficiencies and focusing on
things like profitability andclient retention.
So it was not surprising.
Let's just say that that it hasreplaced uncertainty.
(04:05):
With something that has becomecertain, which is that this
technology is here to stay.
Mary Blanche (04:10):
I mean, we've definitely been making strides
and integrating AI into our dayto day workflow.
So, I mean, things as simple aslike note taking and follow up
comms, uh, things that just havetraditionally been such an
administrative.
offload those and create thatadditional capacity and
bandwidth of team has been huge.
Austin McNair (04:28):
it's interesting because I, I remember back in
March 2023, um, I did a webinarwith, uh, one of the managing
partners at hinge, Carl Feldman,and it was about chat to BT in
the future, professionalservices, marketing, and all the
way back then, like when the,when this technology came to,
uh, kind of came to the marketand everybody started using it.
(04:50):
It was like one of the biggestwebinars we'd ever, we'd ever
done, like the interest was likesuper, super hot then, but like
everything was so fresh and newand like, really, um, I think
that the AI narrative wascontributing to the uncertainty
narrative back then.
But what stands out to me isthat that was two years ago.
I mean, this stuff still feelsreally new, but I mean, two
(05:11):
years is a, it's a prettyconsiderable amount of time,
especially in when we're in aspace like marketing, which is.
constantly changing.
Um, I mean, I look back to kindof some of the things that we
said in that webinar, and Ithink they all still kind of
work because we stuck to morebig picture strategies.
Um, but I just think about thebiggest change and what I think,
why I think this flipped fromuncertainty to actually
(05:35):
specifically saying that, youknow, incorporating AI, uh, and
automation into your business isthe top challenge.
I think the reason for that it.
Um, of why that is, is that nowwe have a lot more of a concrete
idea of what the challenge is.
We see all the technologyplatforms kind of hitting us and
like being advertised to us asmarketers.
Um, we are, I think, in ourroles, sort of expected to be
(05:58):
pioneers in using thistechnology.
Marketing generally is expectedto kind of be on the front lines
of like making sure that we'restaying ahead as a company.
Um, I don't know, Joe, what doyou, would you agree with that?
Joe Pope (06:10):
I can't disagree with anything you said.
And I actually, in the lead upto this podcast, did the same
thing you did, which was go backand review that webinar that you
and Carl did a few years back.
And a lot of, uh, we'll justcall you both Nostradamus,
right?
Because a lot of what you hadtalked about rang true in the
fact that this was going tocontinue to proliferate across
(06:30):
the entire picture of.
Marketing, business development,sales, whatever terms you want
to use, and where those pieceswould start to then eke into, I
mean, you referenced it, theadministrative elements, right?
Replacing some of the moreonerous tasks.
the big thing I think is.
In this role that we have thismarketing business development,
(06:51):
front end role, the ability forus to kind of own that in, uh,
not just hinge as a marketingagency, but when you're sitting
in that role as a marketingdirector of a, let's say, 100
person, architecture,engineering, construction firm,
and, you know, small team, lotof proposal responsibilities,
shout out to the folks.
(07:11):
I know exactly what I'm talkingabout and.
But you've got these newtechnologies got these new
elements that can be infused andimprove and develop
efficiencies.
So there's just a naturalopportunity here.
Um, and I, I think 1 of thethings we, we've talked about
internally quite a bit isexperimentation is key.
Go back to what I was saying atthe start.
(07:33):
A lot of us are experimentingwith these things on a day to
day basis.
In just our daily lives, right?
It's, there's times now wherefolks, myself included, are
using Gemini chat GPT instead ofthrowing something into Google
like we used to.
Google's responding.
Right?
Generative AI search, answerboxes, all of those types of
elements has greatly shifted andanybody who's been plugged in on
(07:54):
the digital marketing side hasjust naturally seen this.
So, uh, yeah, there's a definiteopportunity here for marketers
to be experts in what is aawesome and expanding realm of,
uh, what is our day to day life.
Austin McNair (08:09):
Yeah.
So for that webinar that Imentioned, I actually went back
and looked and there is a blogpost that we published at the
same time, covered the samecontent.
Uh, good, good, good repurposingstrategy on our point.
Uh, on our part, and this isdated back on March 1st, 2023.
And so in the article, we laidout four strategies for
professional services firms in achat GPT world.
(08:32):
So I'm going to list these fourthings out.
You guys tell me kind of whatyou think.
The first one was thoughtleadership is king now.
So not just content, but thoughtleadership.
Um, differentiation will mattermore than ever now.
Joe Pope (08:46):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Austin McNair (08:47):
Doing high quality campaigns as opposed to
just more content.
And then finally, humanize yourbrand, uh, with integrated
marketing strategies.
So techniques that really putyour, your experts and your
influencers out there.
What do you, what do you guysmake of those four, four
strategies?
I'd say they all roughly applytoday still.
Well, I think they do, but what,what stands out to you guys?
Mary Blanche (09:10):
Yeah.
I mean, for me, well, first ofall, I think all four of those
still very much resonate today.
I know for myself, one place I'musing AI a lot is on, is on that
content side and developing, youknow, my own content content
for, for the hinge website.
You know, I, I've been able toalmost cut down my time in half
when I'm writing a blog postbecause, you know, I can really
(09:32):
come to it, you know, with like,what is my idea?
What is my outline for thatidea?
What are those Core points thatI want to hit.
And, then in a back and forthengagement with AI, you know,
it's really helping, it reallyhelps me bring my vision for
that post to life.
So, um, yeah, I mean, from atime saving perspective, it's
been huge.
Austin McNair (09:51):
Yeah.
And then B, I would say it helpsus bring this podcast to life
too.
I mean, we, we're, we're usingit, you know, for the pivotal
stories and kind of writing someintroductions and stuff like
that.
It does really help us.
team be able to do more,accomplish more, um, which, you
know, I don't think it'snecessarily always the, uh, the,
the end goal, but you know,efficiency, right?
It's all about efficiency interms of, uh, how we go about
(10:14):
things.
Joe, what about, what about you?
Joe Pope (10:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the, the big ones thatstill stand out, I mean, all of
them stand out and we coveredthat perfectly correct.
Uh, my, I also would not be ableto contribute anything on the
blog without AI at this point.
I think when you had me writingblogs pre chat GPT days and the
ability to kind of thinkstoryboard and so forth, it
would be a.
Painful process, partly why Idon't write as many blogs as I
(10:38):
probably should, but now, Imean, you've got the ability to
narrate into these tools,organize your thoughts,
collaborate, we're, we're on theGoogle system.
There's a lot of greatcollaboration tools there for
us, but the ones that stand outto me is that differentiation
and humanizing side.
Anybody who's had any amount ofexperience in developing
proposals know that by havinggood sound templates, you can
(11:02):
reduce down what can be anextremely time consuming.
And depending on the businessline, you're in, uh, sometimes
unrewarding based on whenpercentages and RFPs and so
forth.
But what AI is really enabled,especially when you have the
types of tools, like we're, likeI mentioned, we're Google.
So Gemini being plugged into ourproposal decks and slide decks
(11:23):
and docs and so forth, where wecan take things like the
transcripts from our calls, theemail threads.
The back and forth brainstormingthat the team has done and build
into that framework, usingprompts information that allows
us to truly connect in with whatour prospects are saying with
what our clients are saying.
(11:44):
So it's not just the standardlip service, mumbo jumbo crap
that, you know, a lot of timesget scanned over because it's
just the same, right?
Oh, okay.
Boring, whatever trope, but no,like, look, like we can get
without having to spend the timeto sit there and re listen to
every recording and re, uh, readevery email or back and forth,
(12:06):
or look at every single note.
We can combine all that intostoryboarding elements and then
grow it and develop somethingthat is truly within our unique
voice, but.
Is directly tied to the issuesand topics that our customers
care about.
Uh, win percentage last year,plus that we've gone and done
this hinges when percentageincreased 15, 20%.
(12:27):
Um, so that's an actualstatistic.
Uh, and I, I think a major partof that is that process that I
was just describing.
Austin McNair (12:35):
This is not going to be the last time that we talk
about, uh, a I clearly, youknow, for, for, for us
marketers, it's imperative thatwe stay as pioneers in the
space, keep testing out newtools, keep.
working with our colleagues andhelping them to kind of
understand the limitations, butalso the efficiencies of it.
So, so much to cover here in thenear future.
(12:57):
Um, but we've got a greatsegment planned.
Uh, let's jump into that now,uh, after we have a quick word
about this research, we keeptalking about the high growth
study, let's learn more aboutthat.
All right.
So, Joe and B, I've got aquestion for you.
Would you, what, what if I couldtell you that today you could
(13:20):
get it just, Direct insights onwhat the fastest growing
professional services firms aredoing in their marketing program
Would that be of interest toyou?
Would you want to see that kindof data?
Mary Blanche (13:32):
I would say I, I love this for me.
Yeah.
Joe Pope (13:35):
yeah, I, I, it's the kind of thing that I would
literally take my glasses offand stare longingly at the
camera over.
Austin McNair (13:41):
Well, good, because I have great news.
The 2025 high growth study ishere, uh, and anybody listening
to this podcast can get freeguys, free access to the
executive summary that includesall the professional services
firms that we, uh, that 700.
(14:01):
It's a decent sample size tounderstand what is the fastest
growing professional servicesfirms doing.
That research is available rightnow.
If you go to hinge marketing.
com slash high growth, you willalways and forever go to that
link and get the most up to dateresearch on the fastest growing
professional services firms.
(14:22):
So go do that now.
Joe Pope (14:24):
Do it.
Austin McNair (14:27):
All right.
So as football fans, I know thatthe three of us always look
forward to the NFL draft.
And since the draft is comingup, we thought we would make
this the inspiration for today'ssegment for today's episode.
So let me say, MB Joe, Welcometo the 2025 Spiraling Up
(14:50):
Marketing Draft.
Here we are.
Joe Pope (14:54):
woof.
Mary Blanche (14:54):
to be here, Austin.
We're ready.
Austin McNair (14:56):
All right, so how this will work.
In this episode, we'rechanneling our inner Adam
Peters.
Yeah, that's the WashingtonCommanders GM.
Brad Holmes.
There's your Lions GM MB.
Mary Blanche (15:11):
Thank you.
Austin McNair (15:11):
Howie Roseman.
Boo, Eagles.
How about Brett Veach?
Okay.
This is getting a little bit toonerdy, but you get the point.
In this segment, we're going tostrategically select marketing
techniques, uh, that will builda championship caliber marketing
strategy.
So forget quarterbacks and widereceivers in our marketing
(15:34):
draft.
We're going to be selectingmarketing techniques that were
included in this year's highgrowth study.
So, uh, MB, Joe and I, we'regoing to take terms drafting
marketing techniques onto ourteams and building a roster of
strategies to conquer anychallenge.
But it's not just about pickingthe best team.
We'll have to justify our picksand explain how each technique
(15:56):
fits into our game plan.
So, you guys ready to kick offthe first ever spiraling up
draft?
Mary Blanche (16:05):
Let's do
Joe Pope (16:06):
Oh, man, I'm ready.
This is, uh, it's a long timecoming, Austin, especially after
we discontinued the HingeFantasy Football League.
Hashtag
Austin McNair (16:15):
Yes.
A decision that I know you guys,especially Mary Blanche, is very
upset about since she wouldoccasionally dominate that
league for, for many years.
Mary Blanche (16:25):
And by occasionally, we mean every
single time.
Austin McNair (16:28):
Uh,
Mary Blanche (16:29):
At least beat Joe.
At least beat Joe, anyway.
Austin McNair (16:32):
You, yeah, you, you at least
Mary Blanche (16:33):
that alone, I take that as a win.
Joe Pope (16:35):
beat Joe is the bumper sticker.
Austin McNair (16:37):
All right, guys, here is our draft board as you,
Joe Pope (16:41):
you put this together?
Austin McNair (16:43):
I did.
I had some help.
I had, you know, Hinch has agreat design team.
We, we, we collaborated a littlebit, got to get the T the old
dust off the old tear maker.
Yeah.
Shout out to maker.
Um, this is great,
Mary Blanche (16:57):
on brand.
I love it.
Joe Pope (16:58):
I thought MB was going to have to like hand write all
this down to keep us honest.
Austin McNair (17:02):
Great.
Well, look, in a randomlyselected draft order, uh, M.
B.
You get the first pick oftoday's marketing draft.
So the first overall pick,always lots of pressure.
Who are you going to, what areyou going to choose?
Mary Blanche (17:18):
Okay.
Let me see.
All right.
From my first round pick, I amgoing to go with networking at
targeted events and conferences.
Austin McNair (17:28):
All right, networking and targeted
conferences is off the board.
MB, why did, uh, why is that thefirst selection?
That's a big one.
Mary Blanche (17:36):
Yeah.
I mean, for me, you know,there's just, there's a huge
opportunity for professionalservices firms here to gain new
businesses.
New business in this way.
targeted approach is definitelykey here.
So we're not talking like,general networking, happy hour
on a Tuesday night.
Right.
But when you're bringingintentionality to how you're
selecting these conferences, howyou're selecting these you can
just really bring your, yourcompany presence there increase
(17:59):
your brand value, yourvisibility, and that's, that's
the competitive edge.
Austin McNair (18:04):
I think it's a great pick.
Uh, you know, if we go to thehigh growth study data, uh, what
we see in terms of.
Level of impact, right?
So what are the marketingtechniques that are most
impactful?
Uh, networking and targetingconferences was listed as the
fourth most impactful technique.
So you're right there at the topof the list.
And I think you made a goodcase.
Joe, what do you, what do you,what do you think about the
(18:25):
pick?
Joe Pope (18:27):
I'm bummed.
It was absolutely what I waslooking for.
I mean, might've been, uh,might've been lucky to see it
fall to, I'm guessing you'remeeting me three in this rain
and mortar.
Am I right?
Austin McNair (18:37):
Uh, yeah, actually, yes, you're all right.
Joe Pope (18:39):
I can see it.
I can see it already on thescreen.
Mary Blanche (18:41):
And also it's a random order.
Joe Pope (18:45):
I guess, uh, I guess I was never going to get, I was
never going to get to what isabsolutely become a, especially
coming out of the COVID era,right?
Something that it is asimportant at part of any high
growth strategy.
Uh, and absolutely the targetingpiece and be great.
I completely agree with you.
There's got to be an element offocus around this, uh, in order
(19:05):
for this to make any amount ofsense.
Cause you can blow a boatload ofmoney on conferences, trade
shows, and events if you're Notbeing sensible or thoughtful
towards how it's being done.
Austin McNair (19:15):
good points.
All right.
So the, the, the timer on the,on the draft has continued to
tick and it's been my pick.
Uh, so with the second overallpick in this 2025 marketing
draft, I'm going to selectconducting and publishing
primary research.
So here's my case for this.
(19:37):
I'm not really using the datahere, although I like to, you
know, kind of use the data herewith a lot of these.
Uh, I'm thinking of this more oflike a big picture, like in a
marketing program, right?
Like what is the foundation ofmy, uh, content marketing
program going to be?
Uh, for me, uh, I thinkespecially as we've talked about
with like AI and all the, howeasy it is now to create
(19:58):
content.
I want to be creating contentthat is unique to my business.
I want to be creating contentthat nobody can steal or imitate
or if they, you know, if theydo, they have to reference me
and they have to reference mycompany.
So I think to stand out and tokind of, uh, still lean into the
content marketing.
Um, strategy.
I'm going to go with conductingand publishing primary research.
(20:20):
What do you guys think of mypick?
Joe Pope (20:22):
Well, it's a true Homer pick for sure, but there's
a reason I honestly speaking.
And if, if you aren't tying yourefforts directly to the issues
that your customers care mostabout, then you're lost.
So the fact that you can thenturn that around and leverage it
as content itself and asmarketing technique is a double
whammy of efficiency.
(20:44):
So another good pick, anotherone that I was hoping would
fall, but.
I guess I'll figure somethingout based on the remaining
choices.
Mary Blanche (20:53):
Yeah.
Austin, I, uh, Keeping my, Ihave my notes over here, right?
My, my potential picks and I'mhaving to cross that one off the
list now.
But yeah, good pick.
Don't blame me.
That one was right up there forme too.
Well,
Austin McNair (21:07):
All right, Joe.
It's on to you now.
Joe Pope (21:11):
Well, thanks for giving me this opportunity,
Austin.
Third doesn't necessarily meanthat I'm out of the running.
I feel like I can still create anice solid team and I'm going to
build it off of an old faithful.
I've got an idea here too, tomake sure that.
Pushes this through, but for myfirst round pick and the third
overall pick, I will beselecting keyword research and
(21:34):
search engine optimization,
Austin McNair (21:36):
All
Joe Pope (21:37):
which should spark some interest.
Based on the fact that I'mpretty sure every single
flamboyant, uh, prognosticatorin the marketing space has
posted some form or another ofthe blog.
SEO is dead.
Some sort of title around theidea that SEO is dead.
(21:58):
It's over AI.
The overlords are taking, I'msounding like Carl Feldman hinge
partner at this point, but thefact of the matter is the best
practices.
That have driven SEO for atleast the last five to six years
still ring true in all things,AI, in all things, generative
search, if it's original, ifit's thoughtful, if it's not
(22:20):
generated by AI entirely, atleast, um, You are going to be
creating something that's goingto resonate, not just on the SEO
side, but in a lot of theseother new techniques of which
are embracing AI tools to figureelements out.
And another big piece here isthe fact that you see the word
research.
In this piece as well, thatkeyword research is imperative.
(22:42):
And if your keyword research isjust pulled from a tool like a
SEM rush or a Moz things alongthose lines, great.
It's better than just pulling itout of thin air.
But in reality, what you shouldbe doing is leveraging the types
of research that you referencedearlier.
In how you build out in astrategy.
So you were chasing the issues,the topics, the challenges, the
(23:04):
pieces that really do resonatewith the types of customers you
care about.
So by combining keyword researchinto SEO, by activating it in
the manner of which you shoulddo it, the ways that we were
just talking through, or that Iwas just talking through, I
think you're going to get morebang for your buck.
So SEO is not dead.
And it is my first pick.
Mary Blanche (23:26):
when you look at all the other tactics we have on
the board to select from rightnow, I mean, it's a huge part
of, of a lot of these, whetheryou're writing content, you
know, you've got to have thatkeyword research SEO, if it's
paid ads, that's a component ofit.
If you're building a newwebsite, you know, it's, it's
important that you, that youhave the keyword SEO strategy
there as well.
So, I mean, it really, whileit's its own entity and tactic
(23:48):
on this board, it, it reallyflows into so many.
Of these
Austin McNair (23:52):
Yeah, I have a little bit of data to add for
perspective here.
So, I mean, one thing that, uh,when I, those articles you
mentioned, Joe, about the peoplethat write about SEO is dead.
Look, I wrote one similar.
I think I called it panic.
Panic at the SEO disco.
So I didn't say that it wasdead.
I said that, you know, there's alot for us to think about.
(24:14):
Um,
Joe Pope (24:15):
you, millennial, you
Austin McNair (24:16):
Yeah.
So, um, but when people saystuff like that, right, my, my
instinct is to say, well, okay,so then what did we just
ignoring search engines werejust ignore.
I mean, so with our, with ourhinge clients, we regularly, uh,
interview and survey andresearch their buyers.
Yeah.
Search engines is still right atthe top of the list right now
(24:37):
next to referral, uh, gettingreferrals in terms of how people
are finding you.
So if you're ignoring searchengines, uh, I'd say that's
probably a bad strategy.
And I mean, the preferred methodwould be to continue to pay
attention to it and continue toevolve your strategy.
So I think it's a great pickthere, Joe.
All right.
Uh, Joe, Joe, I know you'regonna be upset about this.
(24:58):
We're not doing a snake draft.
This is not fantasy football.
This is NFL.
This is NFL style.
no, no holds bar.
We're going to go back to thetop of the order.
MB, why don't you give us your,your second pick here?
Joe Pope (25:12):
I'm under protest already.
Mary Blanche (25:13):
I was like, wow.
All right.
Let's see.
All right for my number two.
I am going to go with adownloadable gated content Um to
me that one's a no brainer.
I mean gated content is justsuch a powerful way To capture
those high quality leads andestablish your company as a
trusted industry expert and italso builds such Such
(25:36):
credibility.
Austin McNair (25:37):
I think it's a good pick.
I mean, you, you think aboutlike, you know, combined with
your networking at targetedevents and stuff.
I think a lot of times whenwe're talking to our clients.
I'm always asking them, like,okay, so when you go to these
events, like, what's thetakeaway?
What kind of call to action doyou have to offer?
So, I like the little one twocombination you picked there,
um, because I think when youhave, um, gated content on your
(25:59):
website, um, readily available,when you do those networking
events, when you're kind ofsocializing or networking on
social media, Uh, and people docheck you out.
There's a way for them to getinto your, uh, your, your kind
of broader email marketingsystem and nurture marketing
system.
So I think that's a smart pickin my books.
Joe, what do you think?
All
Joe Pope (26:21):
your description in, in the use of the word, a
trusted expert or.
I think every accounting firm'sfavorite phrase, trusted
advisor, you know, just sayingyou are a trusted advisor does
not make you in a trustedadvisor, right?
Like, that's something that'sexpected.
If you're going to pay somebodya decent amount of money to work
with them.
Yeah, you better be somebody I'mgoing to trust on how, uh,
(26:42):
you're advising me on an ongoingbasis, but a good way that you
can develop that trust at anEarlier stage prior to where
they're paying you money is byputting your expertise out there
for them to learn and understandfrom.
And at that stage of the funnelwhere, you know, you're
exchanging that insight that hottopic for something as simple as
(27:05):
a name and an email at aminimum.
But certainly you can get more.
Expansive, especially usingtools like we've been talking
about on the AI side, whereyou're progressively profiling,
collecting information from yourprospects.
It's a very good pick.
MB.
Mary Blanche (27:20):
thank you very much.
And I mean, not to go down atotal rabbit hole here on this,
but kind of some of what youwere saying about that
information collection piece,the data for the sales teams,
right.
So, you know, it allows you tobe able to, I prioritize the
leads who are actively engagingwith your content or even use it
to, you know, tailor youroutreach to create, you know, a
more meaningful connection withthe prospect.
Joe Pope (27:43):
Preach.
Absolutely.
It's so important.
Austin McNair (27:46):
me.
Uh, so for the fifth pick in the2025 spiraling up marketing
draft.
Wow.
What a, what a mouthful.
Uh, I am going to selectspeaking at targeted conferences
and events.
So look, I'm glad that this onefell to me.
I'm surprised that this fell tome at the, the, the fifth pick.
(28:09):
Um, and I'll, and I'll tell youwhy.
So when we go into the data, um,something that we have
consistently seen in our highgrowth study, but also our
research on visible experts, um,is that speaking at targeted
conference is conferences andevents is regularly considered
(28:30):
to be one of the most impactfulmarketing techniques in
professional services.
So at Hinge, we do make adistinction, you know, Mary
Blanche did pick the networkingat, um, at the events.
We do distinguish betweennetworking and speaking because
we do see that there is a bigdiscrepancy between the amount
of companies that, um,participate in events, that
(28:51):
sponsor events, that network atevents, and the ones that are
also adding in that speakinglayer.
That definitely adds kind of adifferent level of, um, you
know, uh, investment, but also,um, to your, to the strategy at
play.
So, uh, for me, the way I'mlooking at this here is I'm
going for a strong authorityplay here with my team.
(29:13):
I'm trying to, I'm conductingand publishing the research and
now I'm going to target eventsand I'm speaking about it.
Um, uh, the other thing that wetalk about, especially with the
visible experts is that When youcan, when you can be seen
speaking, and this isn't justapplied for events, although
events is kind of what I'mtalking about, but any kind of
speaking, podcasts, webinars,you do have an opportunity to
(29:36):
establish yourself as anauthority, um, on the topic that
you're, you're discussing.
So, um, for me, I'm really happythis fell for me.
Uh, Joe, you soundeddisappointed.
What do you, what are yourthoughts?
Joe Pope (29:49):
It was absolutely what I was hoping that would fall to
me too.
And look, I mean, I think.
This is a step up from MBA'snumber one overall pick and if
you don't have, we'll say ifwe're really looking at this
from a team buildingperspective, if you don't have
something reasonable to talkabout, you're not going to get
the opportunity to speakanyways, you can usually they'll
find your way into networking ata conference or trade show or an
(30:12):
event, right?
Like the bar to clear there isusually a money, right?
And it depends on how much youwant to spend, but.
Yeah.
Okay.
When you're taking that nextstep up in how you're creating
visibility, uh, as for theindividuals that are speaking
their personal visibility, shoutout, visible expert, uh, but
also the visibility thatgenerates for organizations that
(30:33):
you're, that, that they'rerepresenting.
It is a, there's a reason why itis as high on the research as it
is as an important piece.
And, and if you can pull it off,it absolutely needs to be
included in your strategy.
Mary Blanche (30:46):
Yeah, 100%.
I like the way you tied yourfirst pick to your, to your
second.
Like, I see where you're, I seewhere you're going with it.
Austin McNair (30:54):
Thank you.
All right, Joe, it's back downto you for the sixth pick.
Joe Pope (30:58):
Oh boy.
All right.
Um.
I'm going to bounce around this.
I mean, yours is kind of verymuch a funnel perspective,
Austin, and how you describethat.
Uh, mine is, uh, going to be ajump because I think it's much
lower than on the funnel wherekeyword research and search
engine optimization is.
But I'm going to, as somebodywho does quite a bit of this in
(31:20):
my day to day role, I'm going toselect with my second pick and
the sixth overall pick, which isagain, still BS because this
should be a snake draft and Ishould have had the fourth pick.
Uh, my pick will be.
Digital product services anddemonstrations, which I also
correct me if I'm wrong, Austin,I think impact wise, it's near
the top on the research.
Austin McNair (31:41):
It is listed as the most impactful marketing
technique in professionalservices.
Right side by side withassessments and consultations.
Joe Pope (31:57):
And the fact that most organizations in some form or
fashion.
Have that as a part of theirsales process.
Uh, the fact of the matter is inprofessional services, this is
not an impulse buy people arenot buying your service.
Like they buy Coke or Pepsi, orI think I was talking in a
recent podcast about Baja blastMountain Dew, which is.
(32:18):
Absolutely.
The number one soda.
I'll continue to hammer on thatpoint.
But the, the big piece here isif you have the opportunity to
get an expert, not that I'mclaiming to be one, but somebody
who does this for a living andtalks about it and can connect
in.
The service, the offering, theproduct, the element of which
(32:39):
you're trying to make a sale onto issues, topics, challenges,
elements of which these buyerscare about.
And we already referenced it.
If you have some insight on themfrom their journey and what led
them to you in the 1st place,even better.
Right?
You can plug that in and startmaking those connection points.
It is an imperative piece inyour process to making sure that
(33:00):
you have that stage before yousend a proposal where you are
warming this person up to theidea that they're about to make
a investment.
In theory, they're about to makeit, but in reality, a lot of
times it takes more time, uh,but you are making these folks
comfortable in their selection,uh, that you're bringing to the
(33:20):
table.
So digital products, services,and demonstrations combined with
keyword research, search engineoptimization, and the reasons
behind it.
I'm feeling good.
With my two picks, even thoughyou all stuck me in the bottom
of this draft order,
Mary Blanche (33:34):
Good for you.
Austin McNair (33:36):
No, I, I think it's a good pick.
I mean, we talk to our clientsall the time about having, um, a
clear call to action.
Right?
Like what, with all yourmarketing materials, with all of
your marketing strategies, likeideally what would be the like
next ideal step to get peopleinto the business development
process, right?
And so I, I think that you've,you've, you've picked a great
(33:56):
one there with, uh, um, youknow, this choice in terms of
having a clear call to actionstrategy.
I think it's, it's, it's a nonnegotiable and it's essential
component of, uh, goodprofessional services marketing.
Any thoughts from you, MB?
Mary Blanche (34:11):
Not that you guys haven't already covered.
Um, honestly, this one was lesson my radar.
I think just because of the wayit's described, but, um, after
hearing Joe talk about the wayyou did, I'm kind of jealous.
That's not.
Austin McNair (34:24):
Alright, well don't let that jealousy creep on
you too long, because now it isback to your pick here.
This is the halfway point, sowe've got two more rounds left,
so, it's uh, this is, this iswhere championships are made, as
you know from your multiplefantasy football championships
MB.
Mary Blanche (34:41):
Yes, I.
Feels good to be a winner.
So with that said, I'm going togo with, uh, social media
advertising for my third pick.
And with this one, I just thinkthat there's a lot of
misconception out there that,advertising on social media is,
you know, much more of a B2C.
Tool, um, but, you know, socialmedia advertising for
professional services, it canreally help you reach a highly
(35:04):
target targeted audiences.
it's a much more cost effectiveway to nurture relationships
throughout the buyer journey
Joe Pope (35:11):
I have no arguments there.
And I think it goes really wellwith your second pick, if I'm
being honest, because havingcontent is King in social media
advertising for professionalservices.
Think about how we use theseplatforms.
I mean, certainly there's theLinkedIn zealots who are.
On that platform, religiously, Ithink we're going to talk to
(35:33):
quite a few of them in thepodcast, mostly in an effort to
promote the idea of the benefitsyou can get from being on the
platform.
But for the rest of us, wescroll through these platforms
as a way to disconnect.
A lot of times, a lot of timesit's to just have, I'm
interested in learning somethingor seeing what's going on, or,
you know, who's moved to a newrole or if it's, you know,
(35:55):
Facebook, it's who's had a baby,right?
Uh, so.
When this type of message comesacross though, where you're in a
sense, pulling, you're pullingthe mind towards where you can
like make a connection on themarketing side, having content
is going to be the best angle orplay because it's the type of
thing that doesn't make themfeel like they're immediately
(36:15):
going to get hit by asalesperson.
Right.
And, uh, while there arecertainly organizations that
still do that, even though theoffer was really just for a
piece of content, you are, youare providing something to a
hyper targeted audience that ifresearched correctly, if, um,
titled correctly, I mean, the,the creative you use in these
advertisements is important tothat your ability to get
(36:39):
somebody at, uh, you know, Thatyou may not have gotten
otherwise is increased andthat's the game in marketing,
right?
We're, we're trying to bestutilize the various channels we
have in the most efficientmanner possible.
Austin McNair (36:51):
No, I mean, I think this is a great pick, I
mean, for a lot of our clients,this is like a key.
Strategy, right?
And Joe, I think you and NB haveboth already covered how linking
that to the content, uh, thedownloadable content piece is
like, that is another one ofthose things where it's like a
nice combination, because ifyou're going to invest in, say,
(37:11):
like LinkedIn advertising, whichis where generally in our hinge
engagements, um, we do recommenda lot of our clients look first
in terms of social mediaadvertising and spend.
Um, you're going to want to havethat like content to, to, to get
people into that, uh, togenerate those leads or generate
those, um, opportunities.
So, um, I think it's a, anothergreat pick.
(37:32):
All right.
So it's back to me now, uh, formy third pick and man, I, I am
going back and forth.
I'm looking across this list andI'm just like, ah, I could go
here.
I could go there.
But I think this is just biasbecause it's something that I do
quite a lot And and I and I helptrain our our clients on this
(37:55):
quite a bit, too is presentingin webinars it's going back and
forth on a few other things andpossibilities, but similar to
what I mentioned before aboutyou know that speaking at
targeted conferences and eventsUm, webinars, um, and this is
actually to my surprise, youknow, when I look at the high
growth study data, webinarscontinue to be a higher
(38:19):
performing, uh, marketingtechnique for professional
services firms across differentindustries.
Um, you know, there are industryvariations to this, but we'll
say like for consultingcompanies, uh, as an example,
this is right there at the topof the list in terms of how
people are, um, hosting onlinedigital conversations.
It's a great way to get, youknow, live feedback from your
(38:42):
audience, Q and a, um, it's away to get, uh, um, you know, do
some polls.
I mean, there's, there's a lotof features that have been added
to it, to the webinarenvironment over the years that
I think worked really well forthought leadership expertise and
professional services marketingin general.
So I doubt that, uh, that's asurprise to you guys that I
would, uh.
(39:02):
Pick webinars since I'veprobably done.
I don't know over a hundred andfifty winch webinars so far So
but that's my pick Hmm
Joe Pope (39:18):
you know, if MB let you, if it, if it slipped past
MB, I'd, I'd, you know, I'd behappy for you to take it.
And it is such a great way,especially for folks that
haven't quite gotten to the livespeaking to get themselves the
reps it takes to improve.
And uh, your, your journey, Ithink is a perfect example,
Austin from.
You know, when you walked in day1, where you would kind of just
(39:40):
turn the webinar on and pushquestions around to the host to
the point.
Now, where you are pretty muchthe host of every single hinge
webinar is a perfect example,though, of where you can kind of
grow an individual's visibilityin addition to the tactic.
Right?
And it's a great tactic becauselike gated content, you are
usually almost always collectinginformation from your buyers in
(40:04):
exchange for them to haveaccess.
And that information is just soimportant as a part of the
larger picture in how you, wecan market to them, how we can
nurture them, uh, how your salesfolks can have insights on them.
We, um, we had a reallyinteresting.
Stat that came across, uh, inour early days where we had made
the shift to a more enterprise,uh, Salesforce platform.
(40:25):
And we're, we're talking sevenor eight years ago, but one of
the first things that stood outto us was that over 50 percent
of our new clients that webrought in, in a given year had
gone to at least two hingewebinars.
I had registered, attended,downloaded things along those
lines.
So a massive chunk.
(40:46):
Now admittedly, there's someother tactics that have risen in
popularity and maybe have erodedat some of what you're, what
you're kind of shouting out herewith webinars.
One of which, which is going tobe my next pick, uh, has, has in
a way taken some bite out ofthat.
But in, in general, it is stilla very solid way to market
(41:06):
yourself to a target audience.
Austin McNair (41:09):
all right.
Well you teed it up with Joe.
Tell us what's that next pick ofyours?
Joe Pope (41:14):
Yeah, I can't believe it made it this far, but you
know, it's, uh, it's, it's, uh,it's an important one, guys.
It's one that, uh, I'm, I'mreally happy.
I'm really happy to see it.
Really happy to see it come downto me and, uh, be available.
But the idea of interviewing ona podcast or radio is a
(41:34):
extremely valuable way todevelop expertise, whether
that's being done on your ownpodcast.
Or being done as a part of anoutreach strategy to improve
your visibility, uh, yourorganization's visibility, your
visible expert nature.
It's, um, you know, you'regetting the opportunity to
leverage a, uh, a network,right?
(41:56):
One of the biggest strategiesthat we're seeing podcasts take
on is of course, they're justinterviewing their target
audiences, their clients.
Uh, it is a natural way to justmake connections.
In a salesy way, that doesn'tfeel like a sale.
People like to talk, especiallybuyers and decision makers.
They love to talk.
Maybe not necessarily about theright things, but they like to
(42:18):
talk.
So we're giving them a platformto do that.
Whether you're hosting it or inreverse, right?
Where you're having as a part ofyour outreach strategy, you
know, we're reaching out andleveraging others.
Potentially, who may give youaccess to an audience that you
wouldn't otherwise naturally getthrough or that you could
(42:38):
necessarily carry that digitalproduct service demonstration.
So I needed to start to build inmy middle lower funnel tactics.
And this is.
This is one for me.
Austin McNair (42:49):
Yeah, I mean, clearly MB and I both like the
pick.
We're, here we are on a podcastright now.
Um, MB, what do you, any, anythoughts on Joe's picks there
on, uh, adding podcasts into hismix?
Mary Blanche (43:01):
I mean, I think for the reasons you just
described, it's it's a good 1,you know, some of our other
partners at hinge, you know,they're very active on being
guests on other podcasts.
So, even prior to us startingour own podcast, that's
something that's very been verymuch been a part of something we
do.
Here at hinge, it's just a greatway to showcase your visible
expertise, but your personalexpertise and the expertise of
(43:24):
your organization.
Austin McNair (43:25):
All right.
Well, look, we are here.
This is the last round of thefirst ever draft.
MB, why don't you tell us, youknow, there's still a lot of
decent options here on theboard.
What, what's going to be your,the final pick for, for your
team here?
Mary Blanche (43:40):
I'm kind of struggling here in between a
couple, but I think, um, I thinkI'm going to go with PR, uh, you
know, call me bias.
PR was my, uh, was my major andin college, but, uh, you know,
public relations just plays sucha crucial role in shaping
organizational perception andthe overall credibility of
(44:02):
professional services firms.
So, you know, whether it's, it'spaid media or it's earned media
together they really form thatintegrated communication
strategy that, that leads tothat substantial business
growth.
Austin McNair (44:14):
Yeah, this is, this is one and in our high
growth study, we have a wholeglossary here that kind of
unpacks like what we include aslike under these categories.
Same with the survey experience,right?
So the people that selected thisin our research kind of know
what they were choosing.
Um, PR is very inclusive, youknow, under our definition where
we're talking about everythingfrom, um, securing speaking
(44:36):
engagements out there, you know,whether that be, um, similar to
the one, um, that I picked.
on my list there, or like guestblogging, writing, um, or just,
you know, getting, you know,just pitching topics to, um, get
picked up on, more traditionalnews outlets as well.
Really this kind of covers likea, an expansive part of
professional services marketingand one that, you know, through
(44:59):
the years we've, we've helped alot of clients I know, um,
really level, level up their,the visibility of the, their
experts.
By getting them out there kindof more, you know, often in
terms of like speaking ontopics, contributing to
articles, um, getting on newpodcasts.
So, I think PR and kind ofeverything under your, that,
that falls under that umbrella,MBA, it's a good, it's a good
(45:21):
pick.
Joe, any, any thoughts there on,uh, the PR pick?
Joe Pope (45:26):
there's a reason that, um, PR has been, uh, a thing for
as long as it has been, uh, and,you know, attracted me to make
it her major.
Uh, so it's, it's still super,super important.
I mean, we, we like to try tosometimes talk about the
differences between digital andtraditional and so forth, but as
a tactic, the idea of going outin earning media, it.
(45:49):
It should be a significantconsideration for any
professional services firm.
Austin McNair (45:54):
Alright, well, uh, It's on to me here for my
final pick and, um, you know, Ithought, yeah, I was, I, when I
picked webinars that I, I kindof paused for a minute because I
was like, ah, if I, if I pickwebinars too early, I'm going to
miss out on this other onebecause they really work well
together and that's kind of acombination I wanted to talk
(46:16):
about.
And that is the combinationbetween webinars and email
marketing.
So, um, you know, in myexperience, like I mentioned,
I've probably hosted over 150webinars at this point.
And I've helped advise a lot ofour clients on producing
webinars and promoting webinars.
I can tell you that your emailmarketing system and the list of
(46:38):
prospects that you develop onthat email marketing chain Um,
that's really going to help makeweb, the webinar experience a
lot better.
Um, if you want to promote kindof a live environment with like
people that know you and thatare, you know, already pretty
interested in who you are andwhat you have to say, email
marketing is kind of rightthere.
And I think it kind of goes forall of thought leadership
(47:00):
content as, you know, emailmarketing, if you're doing it
the right way, which is, youknow, not to spam people's inbox
all the time with sales offers.
Um, it is to literally justprovide helpful content and be
an authoritative, uh, voice thatis, you know, becomes known for
being helpful and being, um, youknow, educational in nature.
Um, I think it is a, is a, it'san essential component of a
(47:23):
professional services marketing,um, program.
So for that reason, I'll put iton and I'm happy to kind of
complete my team there.
I think that's looking good.
What do you guys think on, onthe email marketing side?
Joe Pope (47:34):
surprised it took you that long to pick it that and
webinars were the two that Ithink when we saw this list that
stood out to me for youpersonally, Austin, knowing how
involved you are in that forboth hinge and our clients, uh,
it's, yeah, I mean, email isstill such an important way to
(47:56):
get in touch with yourprospects, your clients.
And while there's certainly agame, um, To be played there and
the amount of filtering andelements like, uh, you know, the
Google and Microsoft havebrought to the table in terms
of, um, and spam catching and soforth.
You have to be smart in how youutilize these tools.
(48:16):
So, uh, I think.
For those that are still stayingon top of best practices, email
marketing is essential.
Mary Blanche (48:23):
Yeah.
Awesome.
That's a good pick, emailmarketing and, uh, presenting
webinars.
I, I did think those would beyour, your one and two picks,
but, um, I like the kind of theway that you, the way that you
went about it and recognizingthat you have the, primary.
Research piece too.
And how you take that, thewebinars and leverage them both
through, your email marketingcampaign.
(48:43):
It got a pretty solid teamthere.
Austin McNair (48:45):
All right.
So that's, that's, that's it.
We're here at the last, uh, endof the draft here, Joe, you've
get the final pick, anything onthe board, it's yours.
Um, what are you going to chooseto complete your team?
Joe Pope (48:57):
Well, the, the NFL calls this, I believe, Mr.
Irrelevant, right?
Uh, I don't think of a lot ofthe things you're seeing on the
board here.
None of these are irrelevant.
So, uh, I won't, I won't, Iwon't throw that title at this,
but, uh, I think my final pickis going to be one that might.
(49:18):
Surprise in the sense that whenwe did our research, it was not
one that was identified or evenjust referenced by a majority of
clients, right?
Repressor respondents, right?
Uh, people that were goingthrough and entering this, but
we're talking about impact andwe were trying to select tactics
that can carry a significantamount of impact.
(49:38):
So video blogging.
Was selected, I think, by 80 or90 out of 600, 700 respondents
who answered this question, butit still, I think, was in the
top 10 of impact, or it mighteven been 8 or 9, or something
like that in terms of those thatare doing it are seeing impact
and just.
(49:59):
Recognizing how content is beingdistributed these days and what
we are, again, embracing as apart of our, you know, our day
to day, right?
Best marketing happens all thetime, not necessarily just when
somebody is plugged in nine tofive.
Uh, blame TikTok, right?
I mean, the idea here, I guessVine, you know, shout out Vine.
(50:19):
They had, they had it first,right?
But the idea of taking expertiseand creating content in a video
format.
Something of which we're doingwith this very podcast and
putting it out into social mediaon websites in a variety of ways
to potentially publish ourselvesas experts who may be, uh, try,
(50:39):
uh, brought in to speak on atopic, things along those lines.
It's also the type of contentthat you can take the
transcripts, run them through AIand create content, written
content.
Actual writing blogs and soforth.
So when combining that in withthe fact I've done some keyword
research and I'm still focusingon search engine optimization, I
(51:02):
I've got this awesome product ofwhich I can then sell after
I've, uh, you know, broughtpeople in via my interviews or
my podcasting or my videocontent creation, I think I've
created a nice little cycle herethat makes my team a solid one.
Austin McNair (51:21):
I think video blogging is, um, I think that
the, Uh, in our episode with,with Dane Fredrickson, um, we
talked to him a lot about thechallenges and barriers, um,
that mark, uh, you know,professional services firms have
in general that keeps them fromstarting to do more video
production and invest in it.
And there are many, um, butthere are those that are kind of
(51:43):
overcoming that hurdle.
And as you mentioned, the dataseems to suggest that, um, those
firms that are making it as partof their plan do rate it very
favorably.
Um, in terms of getting in frontof their audience, building
visibility and credibility withtheir, with their, uh, buyers
and be any, any final thoughtsthere on that one.
Mary Blanche (52:01):
Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's a good pick.
I think we're seeing more andmore of it.
And the hardest part with thisis really just the video
blogging piece specifically isjust, just getting started.
Um, so I think, once you're overthat hurdle, you're working with
a, you know, a marketing teamor, you know, and a video
expert, like, like.
Dane is a great example.
taking that step is, is thehardest part
Austin McNair (52:21):
All right.
Well, this concludes the firstever, maybe last we'll see,
maybe it would be fun to do thisagain next year, but maybe we'll
mix into some, some new voices,um, mark marketing draft.
I mean, this is fun.
I think everybody gets the kindof spirit of this.
Um, you know, it's not that thetechniques down there at the
bottom are not unimportant.
In fact, I think we left offQuite a few that I would say
(52:43):
like deserve to be in the kindof the top 12 or whatever we
picked today But no this reallywas you know mostly just a fun
way for the three of us to havea conversation about What we're
seeing kind of out there in theprofessional services
marketplace a little bit aboutyou know what the data is
telling us And really justhaving fun about how these
things interplay.
(53:04):
At the end of the day, I thinkwe all would say and kind of the
work that we do with our clientsis that, um, whatever marketing
program you do build, thosepieces got to connect, right?
And you want to build a strategythat's well balanced.
You know, you're thinking aboutvisibility, but you're also
thinking about.
Right.
You're thinking about yourwebsite, but you're also
thinking about things that arein the offline space as well.
(53:27):
So there's a lot of things thatwe think about as marketers, but
this is a really fun exercise.
I, you know, Joe and B, did youguys have a good time?
Mary Blanche (53:34):
always.
Yeah, this is fun.
We should definitely do itagain.
I like the idea of the, theannual marketing draft.
Joe Pope (53:40):
we might have to, we might have to have some sort of
contest for a listener to beable to join us and participate.
Uh, you know, they, there couldbe a, there could be some sort
of gamification here, maybe, uh,filling in a positive five star
reviews.
You can make yourself eligible.
Oh, wait, we're not allowed tosay that, right?
You're supposed to, or reviewsshould be natural, right?
Five star reviews should benatural.
Austin McNair (54:04):
well, what I'll say, Joe is, you know, I, I
think that, uh, any feedbackpeople give us about the podcast
is welcoming, great.
We want to thank you guys forlistening.
If you are watching on YouTube,leave us a comment.
What, you know, what boneheadedpick did we make that you were
like, how did you, how did youleave case stories off or
whatever you're passionateabout?
I mean, honestly, we lovehearing from people and
(54:25):
understanding, like, what'sworking in their space, what's
working for their company.
So send us your feedback.
Find us on email.
Find us on LinkedIn.
Um, we are easy people to find.
I will say that, which is, uh,which is good.
So.
I want to thank everybody foranother great episode of the
Spiraling Up podcast.
And, uh, we'll be back here in acouple of weeks.
(54:45):
Thanks again, Joe.
Thanks again, MB.
We'll see you on the next one.
Joe Pope (54:49):
See you soon.
Um, In today's episode of spiraling up, our
team looks at the new biggestchallenge in professional
services, marketing, and then MBJoe and I will face off in our
first ever NFL style marketingdraft.
It is going to be a great time.
Welcome everybody.
This is spiraling up with hingemarketing.
(00:22):
All right.
Well, welcome back to spiralingup with hinge marketing.
Look, we are just gettingstarted with this new podcast.
So if you're here with us fortoday's episode, let me say,
thank you for joining us.
Thanks for, for, for, uh,joining us for these early
episodes.
(00:43):
Our vision for this podcast issimple.
We want to create a podcast thatis insightful for marketers and
leaders at professional servicesfirms.
And we want to have some funalong the way.
Joe, MB, how are you guys doingtoday?
Uh, you guys ready to getstarted?
Joe Pope (00:59):
I don't think we can officially get started until I
make some sort of reference tothe weather.
That's how these meetings go,right?
Austin McNair (01:05):
How's everything going then in the middle of
March for you guys in Virginia?
Mary Blanche (01:10):
we are glad to be done with the snow.
Uh, we had quite a snowy, uh,winter here in Virginia.
Um, but it's been what, like.
High sixties, almost, we hadalmost a 70 degree day.
So I am, I am here for spring.
Joe Pope (01:26):
I've been watching, uh, your surf videos, Austin.
South side of the globe.
Uh, and jealousy has reignedsupreme, so I'm, you know, in
addition to just poking fun atthe fact that we're talking
about the weather, I am alsojust really excited to be
hitting the beach up prettysoon.
Austin McNair (01:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean the jealousy cuts bothways, right?
Whenever you guys are in winter,I'm in summer for people that
don't know.
I'm, I'm living down in SouthernBrazil with my family.
Um, and yeah, we just had aglorious, uh, summer season,
carnival season.
Things are, you know, alwayslots of energy and now things
are starting to cool off.
Some of the tourists are headingback to their daily life.
(02:03):
So, uh, but yeah, things are,things are going well.
I'm excited to talk about, um,this, this episode, we've got
some fun things planned today.
M.
B., why don't we start with ourpivotal story for today?
Mary Blanche (02:15):
All right, let's do it.
Welcome back to Pivotal Stories,where we explore the
intersection of marketing,business trends, and the wider
world.
Now, we've been delving intoHinge's recently released high
growth study for 2025, and oneof the most striking findings
this year has been a significantshift in the challenges faced by
professional services firms.
For years, navigatinguncertainty in the marketplace
(02:36):
has taken the number one spot,but this year's study revealed a
new top contender, which isincorporating AI in automation.
High growth firms are not onlyrecognizing this challenge, but
they're actively seeking tounderstand and leverage AI's
potential.
In fact, AI is the top trendthat they want to learn more
about in 2025.
So what I want to know is howare you guys seeing AI influence
(02:58):
your day to day lives and yourwork life at Hinge?
Joe Pope (03:02):
Yeah, I think it's natural, honestly.
Let's just think about it fromthe perspective of how AI is
kind of Dominated our lives,right?
And how it's just we've gonefrom everybody's 1st experience
with AI being Alexa and it'ssorry.
Alexa is about to go off rightnext to me.
Apologies.
Stop.
But we've gone from that beingeverybody's 1st expectation or
(03:23):
experience with the tool, thefunctionality, the ability to
have something in your backpocket to support you to now
it's ingrained across.
Everything we do, I, I, MB andI, uh, I think we, we both
picked up a new vehicle recentlyand, and this thing's got the
ability for us to talk to it.
It might even drive itselfrealistically.
And that shift has happened soquickly.
(03:45):
It's only natural then to seeit.
Infused in how people are doingtheir work on a day to day basis
I know we can definitely diveinto some of those different
pieces to moving intoefficiencies and focusing on
things like profitability andclient retention.
So it was not surprising.
Let's just say that that it hasreplaced uncertainty.
(04:05):
With something that has becomecertain, which is that this
technology is here to stay.
Mary Blanche (04:10):
I mean, we've definitely been making strides
and integrating AI into our dayto day workflow.
So, I mean, things as simple aslike note taking and follow up
comms, uh, things that just havetraditionally been such an
administrative.
offload those and create thatadditional capacity and
bandwidth of team has been huge.
Austin McNair (04:28):
it's interesting because I, I remember back in
March 2023, um, I did a webinarwith, uh, one of the managing
partners at hinge, Carl Feldman,and it was about chat to BT in
the future, professionalservices, marketing, and all the
way back then, like when the,when this technology came to,
uh, kind of came to the marketand everybody started using it.
(04:50):
It was like one of the biggestwebinars we'd ever, we'd ever
done, like the interest was likesuper, super hot then, but like
everything was so fresh and newand like, really, um, I think
that the AI narrative wascontributing to the uncertainty
narrative back then.
But what stands out to me isthat that was two years ago.
I mean, this stuff still feelsreally new, but I mean, two
(05:11):
years is a, it's a prettyconsiderable amount of time,
especially in when we're in aspace like marketing, which is.
constantly changing.
Um, I mean, I look back to kindof some of the things that we
said in that webinar, and Ithink they all still kind of
work because we stuck to morebig picture strategies.
Um, but I just think about thebiggest change and what I think,
why I think this flipped fromuncertainty to actually
(05:35):
specifically saying that, youknow, incorporating AI, uh, and
automation into your business isthe top challenge.
I think the reason for that it.
Um, of why that is, is that nowwe have a lot more of a concrete
idea of what the challenge is.
We see all the technologyplatforms kind of hitting us and
like being advertised to us asmarketers.
Um, we are, I think, in ourroles, sort of expected to be
(05:58):
pioneers in using thistechnology.
Marketing generally is expectedto kind of be on the front lines
of like making sure that we'restaying ahead as a company.
Um, I don't know, Joe, what doyou, would you agree with that?
Joe Pope (06:10):
I can't disagree with anything you said.
And I actually, in the lead upto this podcast, did the same
thing you did, which was go backand review that webinar that you
and Carl did a few years back.
And a lot of, uh, we'll justcall you both Nostradamus,
right?
Because a lot of what you hadtalked about rang true in the
fact that this was going tocontinue to proliferate across
(06:30):
the entire picture of.
Marketing, business development,sales, whatever terms you want
to use, and where those pieceswould start to then eke into, I
mean, you referenced it, theadministrative elements, right?
Replacing some of the moreonerous tasks.
the big thing I think is.
In this role that we have thismarketing business development,
(06:51):
front end role, the ability forus to kind of own that in, uh,
not just hinge as a marketingagency, but when you're sitting
in that role as a marketingdirector of a, let's say, 100
person, architecture,engineering, construction firm,
and, you know, small team, lotof proposal responsibilities,
shout out to the folks.
(07:11):
I know exactly what I'm talkingabout and.
But you've got these newtechnologies got these new
elements that can be infused andimprove and develop
efficiencies.
So there's just a naturalopportunity here.
Um, and I, I think 1 of thethings we, we've talked about
internally quite a bit isexperimentation is key.
Go back to what I was saying atthe start.
(07:33):
A lot of us are experimentingwith these things on a day to
day basis.
In just our daily lives, right?
It's, there's times now wherefolks, myself included, are
using Gemini chat GPT instead ofthrowing something into Google
like we used to.
Google's responding.
Right?
Generative AI search, answerboxes, all of those types of
elements has greatly shifted andanybody who's been plugged in on
(07:54):
the digital marketing side hasjust naturally seen this.
So, uh, yeah, there's a definiteopportunity here for marketers
to be experts in what is aawesome and expanding realm of,
uh, what is our day to day life.
Austin McNair (08:09):
Yeah.
So for that webinar that Imentioned, I actually went back
and looked and there is a blogpost that we published at the
same time, covered the samecontent.
Uh, good, good, good repurposingstrategy on our point.
Uh, on our part, and this isdated back on March 1st, 2023.
And so in the article, we laidout four strategies for
professional services firms in achat GPT world.
(08:32):
So I'm going to list these fourthings out.
You guys tell me kind of whatyou think.
The first one was thoughtleadership is king now.
So not just content, but thoughtleadership.
Um, differentiation will mattermore than ever now.
Joe Pope (08:46):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
Austin McNair (08:47):
Doing high quality campaigns as opposed to
just more content.
And then finally, humanize yourbrand, uh, with integrated
marketing strategies.
So techniques that really putyour, your experts and your
influencers out there.
What do you, what do you guysmake of those four, four
strategies?
I'd say they all roughly applytoday still.
Well, I think they do, but what,what stands out to you guys?
Mary Blanche (09:10):
Yeah.
I mean, for me, well, first ofall, I think all four of those
still very much resonate today.
I know for myself, one place I'musing AI a lot is on, is on that
content side and developing, youknow, my own content content
for, for the hinge website.
You know, I, I've been able toalmost cut down my time in half
when I'm writing a blog postbecause, you know, I can really
(09:32):
come to it, you know, with like,what is my idea?
What is my outline for thatidea?
What are those Core points thatI want to hit.
And, then in a back and forthengagement with AI, you know,
it's really helping, it reallyhelps me bring my vision for
that post to life.
So, um, yeah, I mean, from atime saving perspective, it's
been huge.
Austin McNair (09:51):
Yeah.
And then B, I would say it helpsus bring this podcast to life
too.
I mean, we, we're, we're usingit, you know, for the pivotal
stories and kind of writing someintroductions and stuff like
that.
It does really help us.
team be able to do more,accomplish more, um, which, you
know, I don't think it'snecessarily always the, uh, the,
the end goal, but you know,efficiency, right?
It's all about efficiency interms of, uh, how we go about
(10:14):
things.
Joe, what about, what about you?
Joe Pope (10:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think the, the big ones thatstill stand out, I mean, all of
them stand out and we coveredthat perfectly correct.
Uh, my, I also would not be ableto contribute anything on the
blog without AI at this point.
I think when you had me writingblogs pre chat GPT days and the
ability to kind of thinkstoryboard and so forth, it
would be a.
Painful process, partly why Idon't write as many blogs as I
(10:38):
probably should, but now, Imean, you've got the ability to
narrate into these tools,organize your thoughts,
collaborate, we're, we're on theGoogle system.
There's a lot of greatcollaboration tools there for
us, but the ones that stand outto me is that differentiation
and humanizing side.
Anybody who's had any amount ofexperience in developing
proposals know that by havinggood sound templates, you can
(11:02):
reduce down what can be anextremely time consuming.
And depending on the businessline, you're in, uh, sometimes
unrewarding based on whenpercentages and RFPs and so
forth.
But what AI is really enabled,especially when you have the
types of tools, like we're, likeI mentioned, we're Google.
So Gemini being plugged into ourproposal decks and slide decks
(11:23):
and docs and so forth, where wecan take things like the
transcripts from our calls, theemail threads.
The back and forth brainstormingthat the team has done and build
into that framework, usingprompts information that allows
us to truly connect in with whatour prospects are saying with
what our clients are saying.
(11:44):
So it's not just the standardlip service, mumbo jumbo crap
that, you know, a lot of timesget scanned over because it's
just the same, right?
Oh, okay.
Boring, whatever trope, but no,like, look, like we can get
without having to spend the timeto sit there and re listen to
every recording and re, uh, readevery email or back and forth,
(12:06):
or look at every single note.
We can combine all that intostoryboarding elements and then
grow it and develop somethingthat is truly within our unique
voice, but.
Is directly tied to the issuesand topics that our customers
care about.
Uh, win percentage last year,plus that we've gone and done
this hinges when percentageincreased 15, 20%.
(12:27):
Um, so that's an actualstatistic.
Uh, and I, I think a major partof that is that process that I
was just describing.
Austin McNair (12:35):
This is not going to be the last time that we talk
about, uh, a I clearly, youknow, for, for, for us
marketers, it's imperative thatwe stay as pioneers in the
space, keep testing out newtools, keep.
working with our colleagues andhelping them to kind of
understand the limitations, butalso the efficiencies of it.
So, so much to cover here in thenear future.
(12:57):
Um, but we've got a greatsegment planned.
Uh, let's jump into that now,uh, after we have a quick word
about this research, we keeptalking about the high growth
study, let's learn more aboutthat.
All right.
So, Joe and B, I've got aquestion for you.
Would you, what, what if I couldtell you that today you could
(13:20):
get it just, Direct insights onwhat the fastest growing
professional services firms aredoing in their marketing program
Would that be of interest toyou?
Would you want to see that kindof data?
Mary Blanche (13:32):
I would say I, I love this for me.
Yeah.
Joe Pope (13:35):
yeah, I, I, it's the kind of thing that I would
literally take my glasses offand stare longingly at the
camera over.
Austin McNair (13:41):
Well, good, because I have great news.
The 2025 high growth study ishere, uh, and anybody listening
to this podcast can get freeguys, free access to the
executive summary that includesall the professional services
firms that we, uh, that 700.
(14:01):
It's a decent sample size tounderstand what is the fastest
growing professional servicesfirms doing.
That research is available rightnow.
If you go to hinge marketing.
com slash high growth, you willalways and forever go to that
link and get the most up to dateresearch on the fastest growing
professional services firms.
(14:22):
So go do that now.
Joe Pope (14:24):
Do it.
Austin McNair (14:27):
All right.
So as football fans, I know thatthe three of us always look
forward to the NFL draft.
And since the draft is comingup, we thought we would make
this the inspiration for today'ssegment for today's episode.
So let me say, MB Joe, Welcometo the 2025 Spiraling Up
(14:50):
Marketing Draft.
Here we are.
Joe Pope (14:54):
woof.
Mary Blanche (14:54):
to be here, Austin.
We're ready.
Austin McNair (14:56):
All right, so how this will work.
In this episode, we'rechanneling our inner Adam
Peters.
Yeah, that's the WashingtonCommanders GM.
Brad Holmes.
There's your Lions GM MB.
Mary Blanche (15:11):
Thank you.
Austin McNair (15:11):
Howie Roseman.
Boo, Eagles.
How about Brett Veach?
Okay.
This is getting a little bit toonerdy, but you get the point.
In this segment, we're going tostrategically select marketing
techniques, uh, that will builda championship caliber marketing
strategy.
So forget quarterbacks and widereceivers in our marketing
(15:34):
draft.
We're going to be selectingmarketing techniques that were
included in this year's highgrowth study.
So, uh, MB, Joe and I, we'regoing to take terms drafting
marketing techniques onto ourteams and building a roster of
strategies to conquer anychallenge.
But it's not just about pickingthe best team.
We'll have to justify our picksand explain how each technique
(15:56):
fits into our game plan.
So, you guys ready to kick offthe first ever spiraling up
draft?
Mary Blanche (16:05):
Let's do
Joe Pope (16:06):
Oh, man, I'm ready.
This is, uh, it's a long timecoming, Austin, especially after
we discontinued the HingeFantasy Football League.
Hashtag
Austin McNair (16:15):
Yes.
A decision that I know you guys,especially Mary Blanche, is very
upset about since she wouldoccasionally dominate that
league for, for many years.
Mary Blanche (16:25):
And by occasionally, we mean every
single time.
Austin McNair (16:28):
Uh,
Mary Blanche (16:29):
At least beat Joe.
At least beat Joe, anyway.
Austin McNair (16:32):
You, yeah, you, you at least
Mary Blanche (16:33):
that alone, I take that as a win.
Joe Pope (16:35):
beat Joe is the bumper sticker.
Austin McNair (16:37):
All right, guys, here is our draft board as you,
Joe Pope (16:41):
you put this together?
Austin McNair (16:43):
I did.
I had some help.
I had, you know, Hinch has agreat design team.
We, we, we collaborated a littlebit, got to get the T the old
dust off the old tear maker.
Yeah.
Shout out to maker.
Um, this is great,
Mary Blanche (16:57):
on brand.
I love it.
Joe Pope (16:58):
I thought MB was going to have to like hand write all
this down to keep us honest.
Austin McNair (17:02):
Great.
Well, look, in a randomlyselected draft order, uh, M.
B.
You get the first pick oftoday's marketing draft.
So the first overall pick,always lots of pressure.
Who are you going to, what areyou going to choose?
Mary Blanche (17:18):
Okay.
Let me see.
All right.
From my first round pick, I amgoing to go with networking at
targeted events and conferences.
Austin McNair (17:28):
All right, networking and targeted
conferences is off the board.
MB, why did, uh, why is that thefirst selection?
That's a big one.
Mary Blanche (17:36):
Yeah.
I mean, for me, you know,there's just, there's a huge
opportunity for professionalservices firms here to gain new
businesses.
New business in this way.
targeted approach is definitelykey here.
So we're not talking like,general networking, happy hour
on a Tuesday night.
Right.
But when you're bringingintentionality to how you're
selecting these conferences, howyou're selecting these you can
just really bring your, yourcompany presence there increase
(17:59):
your brand value, yourvisibility, and that's, that's
the competitive edge.
Austin McNair (18:04):
I think it's a great pick.
Uh, you know, if we go to thehigh growth study data, uh, what
we see in terms of.
Level of impact, right?
So what are the marketingtechniques that are most
impactful?
Uh, networking and targetingconferences was listed as the
fourth most impactful technique.
So you're right there at the topof the list.
And I think you made a goodcase.
Joe, what do you, what do you,what do you think about the
(18:25):
pick?
Joe Pope (18:27):
I'm bummed.
It was absolutely what I waslooking for.
I mean, might've been, uh,might've been lucky to see it
fall to, I'm guessing you'remeeting me three in this rain
and mortar.
Am I right?
Austin McNair (18:37):
Uh, yeah, actually, yes, you're all right.
Joe Pope (18:39):
I can see it.
I can see it already on thescreen.
Mary Blanche (18:41):
And also it's a random order.
Joe Pope (18:45):
I guess, uh, I guess I was never going to get, I was
never going to get to what isabsolutely become a, especially
coming out of the COVID era,right?
Something that it is asimportant at part of any high
growth strategy.
Uh, and absolutely the targetingpiece and be great.
I completely agree with you.
There's got to be an element offocus around this, uh, in order
(19:05):
for this to make any amount ofsense.
Cause you can blow a boatload ofmoney on conferences, trade
shows, and events if you're Notbeing sensible or thoughtful
towards how it's being done.
Austin McNair (19:15):
good points.
All right.
So the, the, the timer on the,on the draft has continued to
tick and it's been my pick.
Uh, so with the second overallpick in this 2025 marketing
draft, I'm going to selectconducting and publishing
primary research.
So here's my case for this.
(19:37):
I'm not really using the datahere, although I like to, you
know, kind of use the data herewith a lot of these.
Uh, I'm thinking of this more oflike a big picture, like in a
marketing program, right?
Like what is the foundation ofmy, uh, content marketing
program going to be?
Uh, for me, uh, I thinkespecially as we've talked about
with like AI and all the, howeasy it is now to create
(19:58):
content.
I want to be creating contentthat is unique to my business.
I want to be creating contentthat nobody can steal or imitate
or if they, you know, if theydo, they have to reference me
and they have to reference mycompany.
So I think to stand out and tokind of, uh, still lean into the
content marketing.
Um, strategy.
I'm going to go with conductingand publishing primary research.
(20:20):
What do you guys think of mypick?
Joe Pope (20:22):
Well, it's a true Homer pick for sure, but there's
a reason I honestly speaking.
And if, if you aren't tying yourefforts directly to the issues
that your customers care mostabout, then you're lost.
So the fact that you can thenturn that around and leverage it
as content itself and asmarketing technique is a double
whammy of efficiency.
(20:44):
So another good pick, anotherone that I was hoping would
fall, but.
I guess I'll figure somethingout based on the remaining
choices.
Mary Blanche (20:53):
Yeah.
Austin, I, uh, Keeping my, Ihave my notes over here, right?
My, my potential picks and I'mhaving to cross that one off the
list now.
But yeah, good pick.
Don't blame me.
That one was right up there forme too.
Well,
Austin McNair (21:07):
All right, Joe.
It's on to you now.
Joe Pope (21:11):
Well, thanks for giving me this opportunity,
Austin.
Third doesn't necessarily meanthat I'm out of the running.
I feel like I can still create anice solid team and I'm going to
build it off of an old faithful.
I've got an idea here too, tomake sure that.
Pushes this through, but for myfirst round pick and the third
overall pick, I will beselecting keyword research and
(21:34):
search engine optimization,
Austin McNair (21:36):
All
Joe Pope (21:37):
which should spark some interest.
Based on the fact that I'mpretty sure every single
flamboyant, uh, prognosticatorin the marketing space has
posted some form or another ofthe blog.
SEO is dead.
Some sort of title around theidea that SEO is dead.
(21:58):
It's over AI.
The overlords are taking, I'msounding like Carl Feldman hinge
partner at this point, but thefact of the matter is the best
practices.
That have driven SEO for atleast the last five to six years
still ring true in all things,AI, in all things, generative
search, if it's original, ifit's thoughtful, if it's not
(22:20):
generated by AI entirely, atleast, um, You are going to be
creating something that's goingto resonate, not just on the SEO
side, but in a lot of theseother new techniques of which
are embracing AI tools to figureelements out.
And another big piece here isthe fact that you see the word
research.
In this piece as well, thatkeyword research is imperative.
(22:42):
And if your keyword research isjust pulled from a tool like a
SEM rush or a Moz things alongthose lines, great.
It's better than just pulling itout of thin air.
But in reality, what you shouldbe doing is leveraging the types
of research that you referencedearlier.
In how you build out in astrategy.
So you were chasing the issues,the topics, the challenges, the
(23:04):
pieces that really do resonatewith the types of customers you
care about.
So by combining keyword researchinto SEO, by activating it in
the manner of which you shoulddo it, the ways that we were
just talking through, or that Iwas just talking through, I
think you're going to get morebang for your buck.
So SEO is not dead.
And it is my first pick.
Mary Blanche (23:26):
when you look at all the other tactics we have on
the board to select from rightnow, I mean, it's a huge part
of, of a lot of these, whetheryou're writing content, you
know, you've got to have thatkeyword research SEO, if it's
paid ads, that's a component ofit.
If you're building a newwebsite, you know, it's, it's
important that you, that youhave the keyword SEO strategy
there as well.
So, I mean, it really, whileit's its own entity and tactic
(23:48):
on this board, it, it reallyflows into so many.
Of these
Austin McNair (23:52):
Yeah, I have a little bit of data to add for
perspective here.
So, I mean, one thing that, uh,when I, those articles you
mentioned, Joe, about the peoplethat write about SEO is dead.
Look, I wrote one similar.
I think I called it panic.
Panic at the SEO disco.
So I didn't say that it wasdead.
I said that, you know, there's alot for us to think about.
(24:14):
Um,
Joe Pope (24:15):
you, millennial, you
Austin McNair (24:16):
Yeah.
So, um, but when people saystuff like that, right, my, my
instinct is to say, well, okay,so then what did we just
ignoring search engines werejust ignore.
I mean, so with our, with ourhinge clients, we regularly, uh,
interview and survey andresearch their buyers.
Yeah.
Search engines is still right atthe top of the list right now
(24:37):
next to referral, uh, gettingreferrals in terms of how people
are finding you.
So if you're ignoring searchengines, uh, I'd say that's
probably a bad strategy.
And I mean, the preferred methodwould be to continue to pay
attention to it and continue toevolve your strategy.
So I think it's a great pickthere, Joe.
All right.
Uh, Joe, Joe, I know you'regonna be upset about this.
(24:58):
We're not doing a snake draft.
This is not fantasy football.
This is NFL.
This is NFL style.
no, no holds bar.
We're going to go back to thetop of the order.
MB, why don't you give us your,your second pick here?
Joe Pope (25:12):
I'm under protest already.
Mary Blanche (25:13):
I was like, wow.
All right.
Let's see.
All right for my number two.
I am going to go with adownloadable gated content Um to
me that one's a no brainer.
I mean gated content is justsuch a powerful way To capture
those high quality leads andestablish your company as a
trusted industry expert and italso builds such Such
(25:36):
credibility.
Austin McNair (25:37):
I think it's a good pick.
I mean, you, you think aboutlike, you know, combined with
your networking at targetedevents and stuff.
I think a lot of times whenwe're talking to our clients.
I'm always asking them, like,okay, so when you go to these
events, like, what's thetakeaway?
What kind of call to action doyou have to offer?
So, I like the little one twocombination you picked there,
um, because I think when youhave, um, gated content on your
(25:59):
website, um, readily available,when you do those networking
events, when you're kind ofsocializing or networking on
social media, Uh, and people docheck you out.
There's a way for them to getinto your, uh, your, your kind
of broader email marketingsystem and nurture marketing
system.
So I think that's a smart pickin my books.
Joe, what do you think?
All
Joe Pope (26:21):
your description in, in the use of the word, a
trusted expert or.
I think every accounting firm'sfavorite phrase, trusted
advisor, you know, just sayingyou are a trusted advisor does
not make you in a trustedadvisor, right?
Like, that's something that'sexpected.
If you're going to pay somebodya decent amount of money to work
with them.
Yeah, you better be somebody I'mgoing to trust on how, uh,
(26:42):
you're advising me on an ongoingbasis, but a good way that you
can develop that trust at anEarlier stage prior to where
they're paying you money is byputting your expertise out there
for them to learn and understandfrom.
And at that stage of the funnelwhere, you know, you're
exchanging that insight that hottopic for something as simple as
(27:05):
a name and an email at aminimum.
But certainly you can get more.
Expansive, especially usingtools like we've been talking
about on the AI side, whereyou're progressively profiling,
collecting information from yourprospects.
It's a very good pick.
MB.
Mary Blanche (27:20):
thank you very much.
And I mean, not to go down atotal rabbit hole here on this,
but kind of some of what youwere saying about that
information collection piece,the data for the sales teams,
right.
So, you know, it allows you tobe able to, I prioritize the
leads who are actively engagingwith your content or even use it
to, you know, tailor youroutreach to create, you know, a
more meaningful connection withthe prospect.
Joe Pope (27:43):
Preach.
Absolutely.
It's so important.
Austin McNair (27:46):
me.
Uh, so for the fifth pick in the2025 spiraling up marketing
draft.
Wow.
What a, what a mouthful.
Uh, I am going to selectspeaking at targeted conferences
and events.
So look, I'm glad that this onefell to me.
I'm surprised that this fell tome at the, the, the fifth pick.
(28:09):
Um, and I'll, and I'll tell youwhy.
So when we go into the data, um,something that we have
consistently seen in our highgrowth study, but also our
research on visible experts, um,is that speaking at targeted
conference is conferences andevents is regularly considered
(28:30):
to be one of the most impactfulmarketing techniques in
professional services.
So at Hinge, we do make adistinction, you know, Mary
Blanche did pick the networkingat, um, at the events.
We do distinguish betweennetworking and speaking because
we do see that there is a bigdiscrepancy between the amount
of companies that, um,participate in events, that
(28:51):
sponsor events, that network atevents, and the ones that are
also adding in that speakinglayer.
That definitely adds kind of adifferent level of, um, you
know, uh, investment, but also,um, to your, to the strategy at
play.
So, uh, for me, the way I'mlooking at this here is I'm
going for a strong authorityplay here with my team.
(29:13):
I'm trying to, I'm conductingand publishing the research and
now I'm going to target eventsand I'm speaking about it.
Um, uh, the other thing that wetalk about, especially with the
visible experts is that When youcan, when you can be seen
speaking, and this isn't justapplied for events, although
events is kind of what I'mtalking about, but any kind of
speaking, podcasts, webinars,you do have an opportunity to
(29:36):
establish yourself as anauthority, um, on the topic that
you're, you're discussing.
So, um, for me, I'm really happythis fell for me.
Uh, Joe, you soundeddisappointed.
What do you, what are yourthoughts?
Joe Pope (29:49):
It was absolutely what I was hoping that would fall to
me too.
And look, I mean, I think.
This is a step up from MBA'snumber one overall pick and if
you don't have, we'll say ifwe're really looking at this
from a team buildingperspective, if you don't have
something reasonable to talkabout, you're not going to get
the opportunity to speakanyways, you can usually they'll
find your way into networking ata conference or trade show or an
(30:12):
event, right?
Like the bar to clear there isusually a money, right?
And it depends on how much youwant to spend, but.
Yeah.
Okay.
When you're taking that nextstep up in how you're creating
visibility, uh, as for theindividuals that are speaking
their personal visibility, shoutout, visible expert, uh, but
also the visibility thatgenerates for organizations that
(30:33):
you're, that, that they'rerepresenting.
It is a, there's a reason why itis as high on the research as it
is as an important piece.
And, and if you can pull it off,it absolutely needs to be
included in your strategy.
Mary Blanche (30:46):
Yeah, 100%.
I like the way you tied yourfirst pick to your, to your
second.
Like, I see where you're, I seewhere you're going with it.
Austin McNair (30:54):
Thank you.
All right, Joe, it's back downto you for the sixth pick.
Joe Pope (30:58):
Oh boy.
All right.
Um.
I'm going to bounce around this.
I mean, yours is kind of verymuch a funnel perspective,
Austin, and how you describethat.
Uh, mine is, uh, going to be ajump because I think it's much
lower than on the funnel wherekeyword research and search
engine optimization is.
But I'm going to, as somebodywho does quite a bit of this in
(31:20):
my day to day role, I'm going toselect with my second pick and
the sixth overall pick, which isagain, still BS because this
should be a snake draft and Ishould have had the fourth pick.
Uh, my pick will be.
Digital product services anddemonstrations, which I also
correct me if I'm wrong, Austin,I think impact wise, it's near
the top on the research.
Austin McNair (31:41):
It is listed as the most impactful marketing
technique in professionalservices.
Right side by side withassessments and consultations.
Joe Pope (31:57):
And the fact that most organizations in some form or
fashion.
Have that as a part of theirsales process.
Uh, the fact of the matter is inprofessional services, this is
not an impulse buy people arenot buying your service.
Like they buy Coke or Pepsi, orI think I was talking in a
recent podcast about Baja blastMountain Dew, which is.
(32:18):
Absolutely.
The number one soda.
I'll continue to hammer on thatpoint.
But the, the big piece here isif you have the opportunity to
get an expert, not that I'mclaiming to be one, but somebody
who does this for a living andtalks about it and can connect
in.
The service, the offering, theproduct, the element of which
(32:39):
you're trying to make a sale onto issues, topics, challenges,
elements of which these buyerscare about.
And we already referenced it.
If you have some insight on themfrom their journey and what led
them to you in the 1st place,even better.
Right?
You can plug that in and startmaking those connection points.
It is an imperative piece inyour process to making sure that
(33:00):
you have that stage before yousend a proposal where you are
warming this person up to theidea that they're about to make
a investment.
In theory, they're about to makeit, but in reality, a lot of
times it takes more time, uh,but you are making these folks
comfortable in their selection,uh, that you're bringing to the
(33:20):
table.
So digital products, services,and demonstrations combined with
keyword research, search engineoptimization, and the reasons
behind it.
I'm feeling good.
With my two picks, even thoughyou all stuck me in the bottom
of this draft order,
Mary Blanche (33:34):
Good for you.
Austin McNair (33:36):
No, I, I think it's a good pick.
I mean, we talk to our clientsall the time about having, um, a
clear call to action.
Right?
Like what, with all yourmarketing materials, with all of
your marketing strategies, likeideally what would be the like
next ideal step to get peopleinto the business development
process, right?
And so I, I think that you've,you've, you've picked a great
(33:56):
one there with, uh, um, youknow, this choice in terms of
having a clear call to actionstrategy.
I think it's, it's, it's a nonnegotiable and it's essential
component of, uh, goodprofessional services marketing.
Any thoughts from you, MB?
Mary Blanche (34:11):
Not that you guys haven't already covered.
Um, honestly, this one was lesson my radar.
I think just because of the wayit's described, but, um, after
hearing Joe talk about the wayyou did, I'm kind of jealous.
That's not.
Austin McNair (34:24):
Alright, well don't let that jealousy creep on
you too long, because now it isback to your pick here.
This is the halfway point, sowe've got two more rounds left,
so, it's uh, this is, this iswhere championships are made, as
you know from your multiplefantasy football championships
MB.
Mary Blanche (34:41):
Yes, I.
Feels good to be a winner.
So with that said, I'm going togo with, uh, social media
advertising for my third pick.
And with this one, I just thinkthat there's a lot of
misconception out there that,advertising on social media is,
you know, much more of a B2C.
Tool, um, but, you know, socialmedia advertising for
professional services, it canreally help you reach a highly
(35:04):
target targeted audiences.
it's a much more cost effectiveway to nurture relationships
throughout the buyer journey
Joe Pope (35:11):
I have no arguments there.
And I think it goes really wellwith your second pick, if I'm
being honest, because havingcontent is King in social media
advertising for professionalservices.
Think about how we use theseplatforms.
I mean, certainly there's theLinkedIn zealots who are.
On that platform, religiously, Ithink we're going to talk to
(35:33):
quite a few of them in thepodcast, mostly in an effort to
promote the idea of the benefitsyou can get from being on the
platform.
But for the rest of us, wescroll through these platforms
as a way to disconnect.
A lot of times, a lot of timesit's to just have, I'm
interested in learning somethingor seeing what's going on, or,
you know, who's moved to a newrole or if it's, you know,
(35:55):
Facebook, it's who's had a baby,right?
Uh, so.
When this type of message comesacross though, where you're in a
sense, pulling, you're pullingthe mind towards where you can
like make a connection on themarketing side, having content
is going to be the best angle orplay because it's the type of
thing that doesn't make themfeel like they're immediately
(36:15):
going to get hit by asalesperson.
Right.
And, uh, while there arecertainly organizations that
still do that, even though theoffer was really just for a
piece of content, you are, youare providing something to a
hyper targeted audience that ifresearched correctly, if, um,
titled correctly, I mean, the,the creative you use in these
advertisements is important tothat your ability to get
(36:39):
somebody at, uh, you know, Thatyou may not have gotten
otherwise is increased andthat's the game in marketing,
right?
We're, we're trying to bestutilize the various channels we
have in the most efficientmanner possible.
Austin McNair (36:51):
No, I mean, I think this is a great pick, I
mean, for a lot of our clients,this is like a key.
Strategy, right?
And Joe, I think you and NB haveboth already covered how linking
that to the content, uh, thedownloadable content piece is
like, that is another one ofthose things where it's like a
nice combination, because ifyou're going to invest in, say,
(37:11):
like LinkedIn advertising, whichis where generally in our hinge
engagements, um, we do recommenda lot of our clients look first
in terms of social mediaadvertising and spend.
Um, you're going to want to havethat like content to, to, to get
people into that, uh, togenerate those leads or generate
those, um, opportunities.
So, um, I think it's a, anothergreat pick.
(37:32):
All right.
So it's back to me now, uh, formy third pick and man, I, I am
going back and forth.
I'm looking across this list andI'm just like, ah, I could go
here.
I could go there.
But I think this is just biasbecause it's something that I do
quite a lot And and I and I helptrain our our clients on this
(37:55):
quite a bit, too is presentingin webinars it's going back and
forth on a few other things andpossibilities, but similar to
what I mentioned before aboutyou know that speaking at
targeted conferences and eventsUm, webinars, um, and this is
actually to my surprise, youknow, when I look at the high
growth study data, webinarscontinue to be a higher
(38:19):
performing, uh, marketingtechnique for professional
services firms across differentindustries.
Um, you know, there are industryvariations to this, but we'll
say like for consultingcompanies, uh, as an example,
this is right there at the topof the list in terms of how
people are, um, hosting onlinedigital conversations.
It's a great way to get, youknow, live feedback from your
(38:42):
audience, Q and a, um, it's away to get, uh, um, you know, do
some polls.
I mean, there's, there's a lotof features that have been added
to it, to the webinarenvironment over the years that
I think worked really well forthought leadership expertise and
professional services marketingin general.
So I doubt that, uh, that's asurprise to you guys that I
would, uh.
(39:02):
Pick webinars since I'veprobably done.
I don't know over a hundred andfifty winch webinars so far So
but that's my pick Hmm
Joe Pope (39:18):
you know, if MB let you, if it, if it slipped past
MB, I'd, I'd, you know, I'd behappy for you to take it.
And it is such a great way,especially for folks that
haven't quite gotten to the livespeaking to get themselves the
reps it takes to improve.
And uh, your, your journey, Ithink is a perfect example,
Austin from.
You know, when you walked in day1, where you would kind of just
(39:40):
turn the webinar on and pushquestions around to the host to
the point.
Now, where you are pretty muchthe host of every single hinge
webinar is a perfect example,though, of where you can kind of
grow an individual's visibilityin addition to the tactic.
Right?
And it's a great tactic becauselike gated content, you are
usually almost always collectinginformation from your buyers in
(40:04):
exchange for them to haveaccess.
And that information is just soimportant as a part of the
larger picture in how you, wecan market to them, how we can
nurture them, uh, how your salesfolks can have insights on them.
We, um, we had a reallyinteresting.
Stat that came across, uh, inour early days where we had made
the shift to a more enterprise,uh, Salesforce platform.
(40:25):
And we're, we're talking sevenor eight years ago, but one of
the first things that stood outto us was that over 50 percent
of our new clients that webrought in, in a given year had
gone to at least two hingewebinars.
I had registered, attended,downloaded things along those
lines.
So a massive chunk.
(40:46):
Now admittedly, there's someother tactics that have risen in
popularity and maybe have erodedat some of what you're, what
you're kind of shouting out herewith webinars.
One of which, which is going tobe my next pick, uh, has, has in
a way taken some bite out ofthat.
But in, in general, it is stilla very solid way to market
(41:06):
yourself to a target audience.
Austin McNair (41:09):
all right.
Well you teed it up with Joe.
Tell us what's that next pick ofyours?
Joe Pope (41:14):
Yeah, I can't believe it made it this far, but you
know, it's, uh, it's, it's, uh,it's an important one, guys.
It's one that, uh, I'm, I'mreally happy.
I'm really happy to see it.
Really happy to see it come downto me and, uh, be available.
But the idea of interviewing ona podcast or radio is a
(41:34):
extremely valuable way todevelop expertise, whether
that's being done on your ownpodcast.
Or being done as a part of anoutreach strategy to improve
your visibility, uh, yourorganization's visibility, your
visible expert nature.
It's, um, you know, you'regetting the opportunity to
leverage a, uh, a network,right?
(41:56):
One of the biggest strategiesthat we're seeing podcasts take
on is of course, they're justinterviewing their target
audiences, their clients.
Uh, it is a natural way to justmake connections.
In a salesy way, that doesn'tfeel like a sale.
People like to talk, especiallybuyers and decision makers.
They love to talk.
Maybe not necessarily about theright things, but they like to
(42:18):
talk.
So we're giving them a platformto do that.
Whether you're hosting it or inreverse, right?
Where you're having as a part ofyour outreach strategy, you
know, we're reaching out andleveraging others.
Potentially, who may give youaccess to an audience that you
wouldn't otherwise naturally getthrough or that you could
(42:38):
necessarily carry that digitalproduct service demonstration.
So I needed to start to build inmy middle lower funnel tactics.
And this is.
This is one for me.
Austin McNair (42:49):
Yeah, I mean, clearly MB and I both like the
pick.
We're, here we are on a podcastright now.
Um, MB, what do you, any, anythoughts on Joe's picks there
on, uh, adding podcasts into hismix?
Mary Blanche (43:01):
I mean, I think for the reasons you just
described, it's it's a good 1,you know, some of our other
partners at hinge, you know,they're very active on being
guests on other podcasts.
So, even prior to us startingour own podcast, that's
something that's very been verymuch been a part of something we
do.
Here at hinge, it's just a greatway to showcase your visible
expertise, but your personalexpertise and the expertise of
(43:24):
your organization.
Austin McNair (43:25):
All right.
Well, look, we are here.
This is the last round of thefirst ever draft.
MB, why don't you tell us, youknow, there's still a lot of
decent options here on theboard.
What, what's going to be your,the final pick for, for your
team here?
Mary Blanche (43:40):
I'm kind of struggling here in between a
couple, but I think, um, I thinkI'm going to go with PR, uh, you
know, call me bias.
PR was my, uh, was my major andin college, but, uh, you know,
public relations just plays sucha crucial role in shaping
organizational perception andthe overall credibility of
(44:02):
professional services firms.
So, you know, whether it's, it'spaid media or it's earned media
together they really form thatintegrated communication
strategy that, that leads tothat substantial business
growth.
Austin McNair (44:14):
Yeah, this is, this is one and in our high
growth study, we have a wholeglossary here that kind of
unpacks like what we include aslike under these categories.
Same with the survey experience,right?
So the people that selected thisin our research kind of know
what they were choosing.
Um, PR is very inclusive, youknow, under our definition where
we're talking about everythingfrom, um, securing speaking
(44:36):
engagements out there, you know,whether that be, um, similar to
the one, um, that I picked.
on my list there, or like guestblogging, writing, um, or just,
you know, getting, you know,just pitching topics to, um, get
picked up on, more traditionalnews outlets as well.
Really this kind of covers likea, an expansive part of
professional services marketingand one that, you know, through
(44:59):
the years we've, we've helped alot of clients I know, um,
really level, level up their,the visibility of the, their
experts.
By getting them out there kindof more, you know, often in
terms of like speaking ontopics, contributing to
articles, um, getting on newpodcasts.
So, I think PR and kind ofeverything under your, that,
that falls under that umbrella,MBA, it's a good, it's a good
(45:21):
pick.
Joe, any, any thoughts there on,uh, the PR pick?
Joe Pope (45:26):
there's a reason that, um, PR has been, uh, a thing for
as long as it has been, uh, and,you know, attracted me to make
it her major.
Uh, so it's, it's still super,super important.
I mean, we, we like to try tosometimes talk about the
differences between digital andtraditional and so forth, but as
a tactic, the idea of going outin earning media, it.
(45:49):
It should be a significantconsideration for any
professional services firm.
Austin McNair (45:54):
Alright, well, uh, It's on to me here for my
final pick and, um, you know, Ithought, yeah, I was, I, when I
picked webinars that I, I kindof paused for a minute because I
was like, ah, if I, if I pickwebinars too early, I'm going to
miss out on this other onebecause they really work well
together and that's kind of acombination I wanted to talk
(46:16):
about.
And that is the combinationbetween webinars and email
marketing.
So, um, you know, in myexperience, like I mentioned,
I've probably hosted over 150webinars at this point.
And I've helped advise a lot ofour clients on producing
webinars and promoting webinars.
I can tell you that your emailmarketing system and the list of
(46:38):
prospects that you develop onthat email marketing chain Um,
that's really going to help makeweb, the webinar experience a
lot better.
Um, if you want to promote kindof a live environment with like
people that know you and thatare, you know, already pretty
interested in who you are andwhat you have to say, email
marketing is kind of rightthere.
And I think it kind of goes forall of thought leadership
(47:00):
content as, you know, emailmarketing, if you're doing it
the right way, which is, youknow, not to spam people's inbox
all the time with sales offers.
Um, it is to literally justprovide helpful content and be
an authoritative, uh, voice thatis, you know, becomes known for
being helpful and being, um, youknow, educational in nature.
Um, I think it is a, is a, it'san essential component of a
(47:23):
professional services marketing,um, program.
So for that reason, I'll put iton and I'm happy to kind of
complete my team there.
I think that's looking good.
What do you guys think on, onthe email marketing side?
Joe Pope (47:34):
surprised it took you that long to pick it that and
webinars were the two that Ithink when we saw this list that
stood out to me for youpersonally, Austin, knowing how
involved you are in that forboth hinge and our clients, uh,
it's, yeah, I mean, email isstill such an important way to
(47:56):
get in touch with yourprospects, your clients.
And while there's certainly agame, um, To be played there and
the amount of filtering andelements like, uh, you know, the
Google and Microsoft havebrought to the table in terms
of, um, and spam catching and soforth.
You have to be smart in how youutilize these tools.
(48:16):
So, uh, I think.
For those that are still stayingon top of best practices, email
marketing is essential.
Mary Blanche (48:23):
Yeah.
Awesome.
That's a good pick, emailmarketing and, uh, presenting
webinars.
I, I did think those would beyour, your one and two picks,
but, um, I like the kind of theway that you, the way that you
went about it and recognizingthat you have the, primary.
Research piece too.
And how you take that, thewebinars and leverage them both
through, your email marketingcampaign.
(48:43):
It got a pretty solid teamthere.
Austin McNair (48:45):
All right.
So that's, that's, that's it.
We're here at the last, uh, endof the draft here, Joe, you've
get the final pick, anything onthe board, it's yours.
Um, what are you going to chooseto complete your team?
Joe Pope (48:57):
Well, the, the NFL calls this, I believe, Mr.
Irrelevant, right?
Uh, I don't think of a lot ofthe things you're seeing on the
board here.
None of these are irrelevant.
So, uh, I won't, I won't, Iwon't throw that title at this,
but, uh, I think my final pickis going to be one that might.
(49:18):
Surprise in the sense that whenwe did our research, it was not
one that was identified or evenjust referenced by a majority of
clients, right?
Repressor respondents, right?
Uh, people that were goingthrough and entering this, but
we're talking about impact andwe were trying to select tactics
that can carry a significantamount of impact.
(49:38):
So video blogging.
Was selected, I think, by 80 or90 out of 600, 700 respondents
who answered this question, butit still, I think, was in the
top 10 of impact, or it mighteven been 8 or 9, or something
like that in terms of those thatare doing it are seeing impact
and just.
(49:59):
Recognizing how content is beingdistributed these days and what
we are, again, embracing as apart of our, you know, our day
to day, right?
Best marketing happens all thetime, not necessarily just when
somebody is plugged in nine tofive.
Uh, blame TikTok, right?
I mean, the idea here, I guessVine, you know, shout out Vine.
(50:19):
They had, they had it first,right?
But the idea of taking expertiseand creating content in a video
format.
Something of which we're doingwith this very podcast and
putting it out into social mediaon websites in a variety of ways
to potentially publish ourselvesas experts who may be, uh, try,
(50:39):
uh, brought in to speak on atopic, things along those lines.
It's also the type of contentthat you can take the
transcripts, run them through AIand create content, written
content.
Actual writing blogs and soforth.
So when combining that in withthe fact I've done some keyword
research and I'm still focusingon search engine optimization, I
(51:02):
I've got this awesome product ofwhich I can then sell after
I've, uh, you know, broughtpeople in via my interviews or
my podcasting or my videocontent creation, I think I've
created a nice little cycle herethat makes my team a solid one.
Austin McNair (51:21):
I think video blogging is, um, I think that
the, Uh, in our episode with,with Dane Fredrickson, um, we
talked to him a lot about thechallenges and barriers, um,
that mark, uh, you know,professional services firms have
in general that keeps them fromstarting to do more video
production and invest in it.
And there are many, um, butthere are those that are kind of
(51:43):
overcoming that hurdle.
And as you mentioned, the dataseems to suggest that, um, those
firms that are making it as partof their plan do rate it very
favorably.
Um, in terms of getting in frontof their audience, building
visibility and credibility withtheir, with their, uh, buyers
and be any, any final thoughtsthere on that one.
Mary Blanche (52:01):
Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's a good pick.
I think we're seeing more andmore of it.
And the hardest part with thisis really just the video
blogging piece specifically isjust, just getting started.
Um, so I think, once you're overthat hurdle, you're working with
a, you know, a marketing teamor, you know, and a video
expert, like, like.
Dane is a great example.
taking that step is, is thehardest part
Austin McNair (52:21):
All right.
Well, this concludes the firstever, maybe last we'll see,
maybe it would be fun to do thisagain next year, but maybe we'll
mix into some, some new voices,um, mark marketing draft.
I mean, this is fun.
I think everybody gets the kindof spirit of this.
Um, you know, it's not that thetechniques down there at the
bottom are not unimportant.
In fact, I think we left offQuite a few that I would say
(52:43):
like deserve to be in the kindof the top 12 or whatever we
picked today But no this reallywas you know mostly just a fun
way for the three of us to havea conversation about What we're
seeing kind of out there in theprofessional services
marketplace a little bit aboutyou know what the data is
telling us And really justhaving fun about how these
things interplay.
(53:04):
At the end of the day, I thinkwe all would say and kind of the
work that we do with our clientsis that, um, whatever marketing
program you do build, thosepieces got to connect, right?
And you want to build a strategythat's well balanced.
You know, you're thinking aboutvisibility, but you're also
thinking about.
Right.
You're thinking about yourwebsite, but you're also
thinking about things that arein the offline space as well.
(53:27):
So there's a lot of things thatwe think about as marketers, but
this is a really fun exercise.
I, you know, Joe and B, did youguys have a good time?
Mary Blanche (53:34):
always.
Yeah, this is fun.
We should definitely do itagain.
I like the idea of the, theannual marketing draft.
Joe Pope (53:40):
we might have to, we might have to have some sort of
contest for a listener to beable to join us and participate.
Uh, you know, they, there couldbe a, there could be some sort
of gamification here, maybe, uh,filling in a positive five star
reviews.
You can make yourself eligible.
Oh, wait, we're not allowed tosay that, right?
You're supposed to, or reviewsshould be natural, right?
Five star reviews should benatural.
Austin McNair (54:04):
well, what I'll say, Joe is, you know, I, I
think that, uh, any feedbackpeople give us about the podcast
is welcoming, great.
We want to thank you guys forlistening.
If you are watching on YouTube,leave us a comment.
What, you know, what boneheadedpick did we make that you were
like, how did you, how did youleave case stories off or
whatever you're passionateabout?
I mean, honestly, we lovehearing from people and
(54:25):
understanding, like, what'sworking in their space, what's
working for their company.
So send us your feedback.
Find us on email.
Find us on LinkedIn.
Um, we are easy people to find.
I will say that, which is, uh,which is good.
So.
I want to thank everybody foranother great episode of the
Spiraling Up podcast.
And, uh, we'll be back here in acouple of weeks.
(54:45):
Thanks again, Joe.
Thanks again, MB.
We'll see you on the next one.
Joe Pope (54:49):
See you soon.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.