May 18, 2025 • 32 mins
What happens when siblings separated by fifteen years sit down to explore spiritual questioning, personal growth, and the courage to face our deepest fears? Welcome to the first episode of Supernaught, where host Beth Kelling invites her older brother Steve to share the moment that changed her spiritual trajectory forever.
Growing up in rural Minnesota where even yoga was considered taboo, Beth recalls the pivotal moment she overheard Steve declare he was "renouncing Christianity until he researched every other religion." This single statement opened a door Beth didn't know existed—the permission to question inherited beliefs and find her own spiritual truth.
Steve reveals his decade-long journey away from the narrow religious views of their childhood, where their pastor claimed members of other Christian denominations were "going to hell." He challenges the arbitrary nature of religious affiliation—"Where you're born decides what religion"—and shares how this questioning led him to a place where he now "believes almost nothing" yet finds peace in that uncertainty.
The conversation weaves through mental health territory, exploring how depression stems from both thought patterns and biochemistry. Beth shares her discovery that B vitamins trigger her depression due to a genetic mutation, highlighting how our mental state isn't always within our conscious control.
Most powerfully, the siblings discuss fear as a gateway to growth. Steve passionately advocates for confronting fears directly: "If they recognize something in themselves that creates fear or anxiety, go straight into it instead of avoiding it." Beth reflects on her journey from crying through high school presentations to confidently hosting this podcast, and how initially dreaded experiences like cold plunging have become transformative practices.
The episode concludes with Beth embracing "doing hard things" as her spiritual practice—a fitting philosophy for someone hosting a podcast named after the concept of a "voyager searching and striving for betterment."
Ready to question your assumptions, face your fears, and discover your own authentic path? Subscribe now and join us on this journey of transformation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Supernaught.
My name is Beth Kelling and I'mgoing to talk about
spirituality, sobriety and thespectrum of self.
I've loved talking aboutspirituality for as long as I
can remember and I've been on asobriety journey since 2020.
The more I talk about sobriety,the stronger I become.
The more I explore spirituality, the more fulfilled I feel.
This is a space for stories andfor the moments where struggle
(00:21):
meets transformation.
This is Super Knot, hi Steve.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey Bethy, Bear.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Thanks for being my first guest on Super Knot.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Super Knot.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
For those who don't know, steve and I are brother
and sister, and for thosewatching who are like how is
that possible?
Look at this drastic agedifference.
I'm so young and vibrant and'relike clearly middle-aged.
So why don't you tell the storythat you loved to tell when I
was growing up of how I cameinto existence?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Okay.
So back in those days everytown had at least one or two
drugstores where you didn't haveto go all the way to Walmart or
anywhere.
You got a haircut, you gotwhatever you needed, you got
your birth control.
So I was with dad on a Saturdayand we went to a hall drug and
(01:16):
he gets something.
And then he kind of looks downand tells me yeah, your mom
wants me to get one of thosevasectomies, but yeah, this is
good enough.
And then literally I don't know, three months later they were
like well, it didn't work,you're going to have another
(01:37):
brother or sister.
So, yeah, they didn't want you.
The rest of us wanted you.
Mom and dad definitely did not,but Eddie and I and Michael
wanted you for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Good, okay, all right .
So that clears up this drasticage difference of 15 years.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh, and then Dad did get a vasectomy shortly after
that.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh, okay, yeah for sure.
Okay, all right.
So one of the main themes ofthis podcast is spirituality,
and the reason I wanted you onas my first guest is because you
were the first person I everheard decide to question the
faith that they were brought upin.
You were the first person thatmade me realize I should go out
(02:19):
and find my own truth.
That just because I was borninto a certain religion doesn't
mean that I should naively,blindly accept the story laid
before me.
I was a teenager and I canremember right where we were.
It was in the office here, andyou said to E that you were
renouncing Christianity untilyou researched every other
religion, at least themainstream ones.
You made it sound so obvious tome that it was wild and maybe
(02:42):
even irresponsible to grow upbelieving what you were told,
and so I wanted to say for therecord that I'm getting more and
more excited about Christianityall the time.
But what a blessing it is tohave the opportunity to be
excited about it because I aloneam choosing it to know that I
went out and searched and havefound my own version of truth.
(03:02):
So I'm not sure how long itwould have taken me to do that.
Maybe everybody realizes thatmaybe it's obvious to everybody
that they should do that, butI'm not sure, because in Mora,
minnesota, rural Minnesota, Iwas in my mid twenties before I
could openly say that I wasgoing to yoga classes, because
people thought that was voodoodevil's juice, you know.
(03:27):
So for you to have given me atsuch a young age the opportunity
to think outside of thatbecause I didn't even know it
was okay to learn about anotherreligion, let alone dive into
one.
So when I was 19 or 20, I toldmom that I was interested in
Buddhism and she brought me to acouple temples in the metro,
but she literally said likelet's just not tell your dad
(03:48):
about this.
So, um, my question is whatbrought you to this decision?
This had have been 25, 25 yearsago or so, but how did people
react?
What was your mind state?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Um, well, it's probably a 10 year process
process of the first time Ithought about this just doesn't
seem right to me to being ableto even say it out loud to
myself, let alone telling otherpeople and very few people
probably the first 10 years thatI ever talked about it with
(04:24):
openly.
Because, yeah, a few hundredyears ago you get burnt at the
stake, you know, for saying thatyou didn't believe in Jesus or
you know whatever religion youwere supposed to believe in and
it was scary, I mean, and Ithink that that's, you know,
part of the stronghold ofreligion is that gets burnt into
(04:45):
your brain at such a young agethat it is sinful to even think
about anything else other thanjust to follow exactly what
you're told.
In Mora, the pastor there toldus openly that every other
(05:08):
person in the city of Mora atevery other church was going to
go to hell because they went tochurches other than Zion
Lutheran, missouri Synod Church,like, oh, you know, you can
talk to them, but just don'tplan on seeing them after you
die because they're all going tohell.
So it wasn't even like Muslimsor Hindus or some completely
(05:37):
radically different religion.
It was other people that weresupposedly also Christians.
So what started me on the pathof questioning it?
Well, just the idea that whereyou're born decides what
religion.
And because I happened to beborn in a family that not only
(06:00):
was Christian but happened to beGerman, missouri Synod Lutheran
and I was one of the select fewout of billions of people
because of where I was bornBullshit, complete, complete
crap.
And every religion has a storyyou know, or followers of the
religion have stories about how,what makes them feel like it's
(06:25):
real to them, the experiencesthat they've had, external and
internal.
Well, they all have it.
There's no religion thatsurvives that doesn't have
people who, to their core,internally and externally, feel
like they have justification andrelevance for believing what
(06:48):
they believe.
Well, how is that possible?
So it was like a 10-yearprocess of just stripping away
every layer, every detail ofwell, why do I believe this?
And it wasn't just religion byany means, it was every single
thing, thing.
Do I believe this to be a truthbecause I, this is what I was
told, or because this is whatI've observed?
(07:10):
And then, even when you getdown to the things that you
believe, it's because whatyou've observed you realize that
you've observed such a tinyfraction of you know experience
that your judgment can becompletely biased or skewed, or
the sample size is just toosmall to you know to make
(07:30):
decisions on.
So uh yeah, I believe almostnothing at this point because
and and it doesn't, it probablythe breakthrough was was
accepting that it doesn't matter.
You know so much of what we'reconcerned about every day.
It really has no effect onutility, value of our lives,
(07:56):
quality of life.
It's just our opinions.
I like that sweater color orthe knit pattern or whatever.
Okay, that's fine, you can likeit all you want, but it's not
better than my pattern.
It's completely benign and mostof our lives are completely
benign, and so it doesn't matterwhat you believe or what you
(08:16):
think is true or not true.
If it makes you happy, great.
If it gives you inspirationgreat, but it really doesn't
matter.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, so can you remember who the first person or
first couple people that youdid say it to I mean Probably
maybe Devin was?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
the first person or first couple of people that you
did say it to.
I mean, uh, uh, probably maybeDevin was the first person.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
How old he would have been.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It was probably in college, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, I was a teenager when I heard you tell
Ethan.
But well, maybe, maybe.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Ethan was the first person that I started arguing
with, because we argued abouteverything.
Whether, whether I believed itor not, I was probably in the
process of getting there.
Yeah, because there was a pointwhere I severely criticized and
chastised him for not going tochurch.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Oh, robin says, you did him too.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yep.
So when I was a thumper andthen I would see these other
people who were apparently Jesusfollowers but not doing
anything about it, never goingto church, not bringing their
kids to church, yeah, I mean, Iwas a complete dick about it At
(09:31):
that age.
If I believed it, everybodyshould believe it.
And especially if you tell meyou believe it but you don't
actually act on it, well then Iwas going to be a total asshole
to you.
So yeah, I was to everybody.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
So it was like, literally when he started going
to church was when I stopped,yeah, and then it was like, fuck
, it's because I always love toargue.
Well, the difference doesn'tmake much.
Pick a side.
I'll argue either side for fun,because you never lose an
argument.
You just learn.
If somebody can shame you withthe dumb, you say something and
(10:07):
then you can't defend it.
Okay, I learned something.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well, you always get mad at me for not arguing with
you enough, and then I'm likebut I agree with what you're
saying.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
What use are you to me if you don't argue with me?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Except that one time a week, after you said it to me,
and then we're talking aboutdrive time.
Oh, yeah, and you were gettingupset and I was like you
literally just told me to arguewith you.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I didn't say I wasn't going to get upset, that's okay
.
I mean yeah, Ideally, I meanyeah, I mean ideally.
You don't get emotional aboutan argument.
You argue the points, themerits of your point of view,
and if you can't defend them youfucking lose.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so did you dive in toother religions or did you kind
of just stop believing what you?
Yeah, so I did hear you saythat you were going to research
other religions.
So there's still time, you'renot that old yet.
Yeah yeah maybe you don't wantto, and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
The other part about it is I don't think we have as
much control as we think we do,or we wish we had, in how our
own minds work, so like I couldwake up tomorrow and be like,
wow, I've been an idiot for thelast 20 years.
Jesus is real, I can feel himright here.
That literally might happentomorrow and there's there's
(11:28):
very little I can consciously doto control that you know,
because mom and dad used toalways say well you know faith.
Faith is a gift.
That you know because mom anddad used to always say well, you
know faith.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Faith is a gift.
Well, I guess I don't have thefucking gift.
So who is in control then?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I don't know what comes into your brain a perfect
example of I don't know and it'sokay not to know yeah right and
I don't want to bash you knowour father too much here, but he
needs to know answers toeverything, everything.
He can't walk by somebody'sdesk without picking what's this
?
Why is this here?
Who does this belong to?
He needs to know the answer toeverything, and I observed that
(12:07):
and just decided I don't need toknow the answers to anything
except what directly affects myday-to-day life.
Everything else is.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
But that's real faith .
Speaker 2 (12:18):
It's just trivia at that point.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, but I think that's what God wants us to feel
is yeah, we don't have to knoweverything because we trust Him.
I think Dad is a bad example ofsomebody who is religious, who
does need to know everything.
That's just how his brain works.
But I mean, so that's almostlike a faith that you're putting
faith in something, aren't you,by not needing to know
(12:43):
everything because somebodyhasn't?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
figured it out.
I don't need to have faith.
I wake up every morning.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I'm alive.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
My legs work, my arms work, my eyes are working, I
get up.
Even if I didn't have all thosethings, I could crawl out of
bed to find nourishment.
What do I need?
To have faith in?
Everything works.
I survive, and if it doesn'twork, and I die, well, so does
everything else.
I'm not special.
I'm not going to live forever.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Everything dies.
Well, I mean, with moderntechnology we might live quite a
while.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, who knows, Maybe.
But yeah, the next generationevolution progress can't be made
.
I mean, if we lived forever,we'd probably just be holding
the world back, Mm-hmm Right.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, yeah.
I think there's somethingspecial about knowing you're
going to die and that life isshort.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
and then you To me it's more meaningful because, no
, there's not some magic placeyou're going to go to after you
die and you're going to get tosee everyone and you get to make
up for all the bad stuff youdid in purgatory, if you're a
Catholic or something.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
No, this is it, and that's why I'm not scared of AI,
because I think that they'regoing to be jealous of us for
that exact reason.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Not jealous like mean to us jealous, but like respect
us for that we have that andthey don't, Because we're
precious and fragile and onlyhere for a short time.
So they better appreciate us.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, well, hopefully they help remind us that that's
why we're here and help us holdon to that and help us be more
creative.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, I don't know why we're here.
We are, and maybe we'll findout when we die Either way, but
I'm fairly confident thatbecause I don't believe in a
very specific thing, that I'mgoing to be somehow tortured in
hell for eternity.
That's absurd.
(14:41):
I don't think I'm ever going towake up and think that is a
real thing.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Right.
Well, I believe you can be inhell on earth.
If your thoughts arecontrolling in a negative way,
that's hell on earth.
A lot of people are living in anegative way.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That's hell on earth A lot of people are living in it
, yeah, so, yeah, that's sad.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I think you can live in heaven and on this earth as
well.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
But just like you know, I was saying that you
can't control.
You know how do those peopleget out of that.
You know, it's not like you canjust Well, I think, think,
meditating deep breathingmedication in some ways.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yes, that is needed at times when you really can't
get out because brain umchemistry.
So I have realized that b12s orany b vitamins get me depressed
and 25% of population has thismutation that I have.
I took that Gary Brekkamutation.
(15:41):
I think I had to send my bloodin and it's like M-T-R-R-M-R-T-T
.
I can't remember which mutationit is.
Look it up.
No, but not right now.
But I was drinking these B12sfor two days last week and all
of a sudden I got home and allof a sudden, out of nowhere, it
(16:01):
was like my brain did somethingwhere I was depressed and I was
like what Do I have to bedepressed?
Well, there's nothing literallygoing on.
But then it clicked that threeother times when I've.
I know this, I know I shouldn'ttake Bs.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
And so I stopped and now I'm feeling better.
But it was like my brain didthis thing where it was so
clearly a chemical imbalance.
So of course I supportmedication for people who are
having a hard time and can't getout of things, because I think
sometimes there's nothing elseyou can do.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But for me, it's too bad that there's a stigma to it.
But, yeah, uh, I wear cheatersbecause, uh, my eyes aren't
perfect.
Yeah, right, yeah, uh, peopleuse hearing aids.
They do all sorts of things, uh, to make their lives better or
(16:55):
to improve what isn't quiteperfect.
And just because, yeah, youhave to take some meds because
of a chemical imbalance thatmesses with your mind, that's
just.
It's too bad that there's sucha negative stigma about that.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
And those meds, or before you're on the meds, your
brain might be in patterns oftalking negatively to yourself
and about other people.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But so then it's also your responsibility.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Once you have some kind of help to get you out of
that compulsive thinking.
You have to make an effort atthinking positive thoughts,
meditating, shutting your brainoff, breathing.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
But even getting to the point where you're willing
to do that, isn't always achoice either, for sure.
Sometimes it just feels so muchbetter to be angry and to be
upset.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
It can be addictive.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You would ask me to pick a song.
My favorite songs are likeSeether, like horrible.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I was scared you were going to pick a song that was
like a rager.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I hate the lyrics.
You know it's not.
I love the music, but then, youknow, you end up listening to
these lyrics.
It's like you know, I feel badfor these people Because this
could be a really cool songabout something you know.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, something great , but you can't listen to the
lyrics.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
But there's just so much anger out there, and so I
think that there's a pretty easypathway in society for people
to feel um bad for themselvesand and like a victim.
Right, I mean, if you want tobe a victim, there's, there's.
It's not a pathway, it's afreeway to allow you and to
(18:32):
encourage you to embracevictimhood.
Why, I don't know, there mustbe money in it for somebody.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I mean, that's why I think the media is making so
much money right now, becausethey are what's the word?
Taking that out of people?
I mean keeping people stuck inthat.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, pharmaceuticals making money off people who do
take the drugs and convincingpeople that it's somebody else's
fault.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Well, yeah, it's a feeling and it's an emotion to
feel negative and sad and thatcan be hard to let go of when
you've felt it for so long, orif you grew up in a household
where you felt that way yeah Imean.
So it's like almost, if you letit go, you're abandoning that
part of yourself yeah, but okay.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
so, but at the same time that that, uh, that that
somebody who feels like a victimand then embraces that, I don't
think that that's their faultand rights, and so I don't think
we can take credit for beinglike oh, we're these smart,
enlightened people that wehaven't fallen into that trap.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
No.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
It's not our.
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
No.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Why we're not those people?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I think it takes work , it takes conscious work.
Why we're not those people?
I think it takes work, it takesconscious work.
What's that movie about?
What's his name, mr Rogers?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I love that movie.
Did you ever watch it?
I think I told you to.
So his wife goes up to thereporter and says he's not just
naturally this nice and good ofa person, he has to work really
hard at it.
He swims every single day.
He gets his demons out some way.
That's why people run, that'swhy people work themselves hard.
(20:29):
I think that's why people dolots of things.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
There probably is some balance.
Maybe that's the spiritualitythat if you're good at one thing
, it's probably at the expenseof something else If you're
sensitive to one thing it'sprobably at the expense of
something else.
If you're sensitive to one thing, it's probably because you're
ignoring something else.
It's really hard to be superconscientious of your health and
fitness and work hard and be incontrol of your relationships,
(20:54):
or doing what you can to be incontrol and positive, and all at
the same time.
Usually it's I am focusing onwork right now and fuck
everything else, or I'm going toignore work because I want to
spend time with family, and thenwork suffers.
It's impossible to serve morethan one master.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, you can't be good at absolutely everything.
You have to pick and choose.
Maybe right now you're servingice baths.
Are you still cold plunging?
Speaker 2 (21:25):
No, I did that for about a month and then I really
started to feel like it was.
If anything, it was hurting myworkouts because I'm working out
right afterwards and I wasfrozen for the first 20 minutes.
I could feel the cold in mybones for 20 minutes into my
(21:45):
workout.
Well, that has to be slowing mymetabolism down.
It has to be slowing everything.
So I thought, well, if I'mgoing to do it, I have to do it
dead center between workouts,not right before or right after.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, I've just been doing it on days that I think
are going to be hard and I wantto just get the hardest thing
out of the way, and I wanted totoday.
But I also today I just reallywanted to stay in my feminine
energy and it seems like coldplenogen is kind of more of a
masculine like I'm going to dohard things Bullshit.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
So I was perfectly happy if the water was 59, 60
degrees and go in.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Nicole would drain the tub because it comes out of
the faucet at 40 degrees.
She would drain the tub and getit down to at least 50 and be
in there for like four minutes.
She's always been a tough bitch.
She is fucking tough.
And if she happened to get upbefore me and drain the tub and
(22:53):
get it down to that temperature,well you know I couldn't like
add hot water, so I and yeahthat it's brutal.
There's a huge differencebetween 60 degrees and 50
degrees right.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
It comes out at mine at 57 and I can get it down to
54 with some ice, you wouldthink it would get colder, but
it wasn't.
But when I was just in Icelandand we were in like this lagoon
and they had a cold, so it waslike I think it was probably 35,
because that's what thetemperature was outside 35, 36
because there wasn't any airflowing into it, it just yeah
(23:26):
and the way that it takes yourbreath away.
Yeah, I mean oh, it's justamazing it is.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
It is when you're in the tub.
You can't get.
You know you can't get yourwhole body in at one time.
So, without thinking, I wouldjust immediately go from bed to
the tub, no thinking whatsoever,just sit right down and it's
like five seconds of oh my God.
But then every time you slide alittle bit deeper into it, you
(23:54):
have that process all over againbecause you're trying to get
your whole body into it.
So it was brutal, but at thesame time it was like just
proving to yourself that you'renot going to die and just
proving to yourself that you cando it if you want to.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, no for sure.
That's the main reason I'mdoing it is to prove to myself
that I can do the hard things.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
That's the main reason I'm doing it is to prove
to myself that I can do the hardthings.
You asked about job sites inthe spring and mud.
My actual favorite memory ofbuilding was with Eddie, our
older brother, in the wintertime.
It had to be at least 20 belowa job site in Zimmerman.
It's right on 169, so everytime I go down drive 169 through
(24:44):
Zimmerman I get to look at thisbuilding but it was so brutally
cold.
There was four of us, eddie andI and two other guys, and we
walked around the corner of thebuilding and the other two guys
were literally hugging eachother like kind of almost crying
because it was so cold.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
And.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Ed and I just got this warm feeling of joy inside
of us because, I mean, it wascold but we weren't started
making snowmen and having asnowball fight, just to taunt
the other guys that you know wewere stronger men than they were
(25:26):
.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Cute.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, favorite memory of building a shed with Ed.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Very cute.
I'll remember that one.
Oh, so I am going to have tobring you to an EDM concert.
I went to my first one lastweek and, because you said you
don't like the lyrics, but youlike the rager music noise like
an EDM concert.
You just stand there and itvibrates your whole body.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And I was definitely the oldest one there.
I was almost 40 and justgetting into them now kind of
silly, but I don't care, becauseit was so amazing and I'm like
already that's the name of theartist is EDM no, he was lane
eight, but EDM is electric music, dance music, electronic dance
music, I don't know, but umthat's when it's just like.
(26:17):
It's a genre, yeah, a genre,and it just vibrates your whole
body Okay.
And yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
I'll check it out.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
It's like a massage for your brain.
Somebody called it.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Wow, mm-hmm.
Well, that could be good.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, and there's not too many lyrics.
There's some, but like you said, the lyrics on Seether and some
of these bands that you like.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
It's not good to put into your soul.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
It probably isn't yeah, yeah, but you need the
beat, you need the I don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I like the guitar, yeah, I like the drums, I like
the bass, but yeah, the lyricsare all pretty silly.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Mm-hmm, cool.
Well, I think that I'm going tohave you on Super Knot quite
often, hopefully once a monthbecause you have so much insight
.
Super Knot means a voyagersearching and striving for
betterment and working toimprove themselves, their lives
and their surroundings.
(27:14):
So what do you do right nowthat you don't want your
grandkids to do when they'reyour age?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
What do I do right now that I don't want my
grandkids to do?
Uh, I listen to uh audio booksinstead of read books.
So it would be great if theylearned to love to read actual
(27:43):
paperback uh books instead ofjust listen.
Listen to audio.
It's always been a hugeweakness of mine.
If I won't if I can't sleepbooks instead of just listen to
audio.
It's always been a hugeweakness of mine, if I can't
sleep, pick up a book instantly,I'll sleep.
So I hope they learn to read.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, that's a good one.
What do you do that you hopeyour grandkids do do when
they're your age?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
do when they're your age.
If they ever recognizesomething in themselves that
creates fear or anxiety or doubt, that, they go straight into it
instead of avoiding it, tryingto circumvent it or pretend it's
(28:30):
not there Fucking tackle it,it's the biggest thrill.
I mean if you weren't afraid youwere going to die, skydiving
would be boring.
I mean whoa, okay, wow, butit's the fact that there's a
real chance you're going to dieis what makes skydiving awesome,
or rock climbing, or drivingyour motorcycle faster than you
(29:00):
should.
I'm not saying all those thingsare wise, smart things to do,
but the fear of public speaking,that's one of your greatest
accomplishments in life, ofovercoming something.
Literally crying, when theteacher made you do your first
speech in high school.
To now you do it almost everyday.
Yeah, I mean you could havedone the exact opposite and
(29:22):
taken an F on that or whatever,and never engaged with it, but
you hit it straight on.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, we talk about that often chasing the things
that scare us the most or evendislike.
It's so funny.
I know I'm not going to be ableto think of any examples right
now, but things even that Idislike that.
I start to lean into and I'mlike, oh my gosh, there's a
reason I dislike this, because Ihad to figure out something,
some aspect of it that I didlike and yes, especially public
(29:51):
speaking in high school criedevery time, um my, when I became
crew manager at Sherman and Idid a speech in the morning
meeting and then I went homethat afternoon and cried for
like three hours.
I just had to get all theemotions out.
And even this is so scary to me.
But I never would have beenable to do this if it wasn't the
(30:13):
small steps that I took goingtowards it.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
But I mean, you look back at it now and it's silly
right.
So it's not going to take longbefore you think that this was
silly and it's all being nervousabout it was silly.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, and the cold plunging too.
I mean, I dislike being coldmore than anything.
I've tried to move away fromminnesota, so many times.
Yeah, one of the six blanketpeople yes, yes, a heated
blanket, of the heated littlepacks that I just get home and I
put all over my body, um, butthe cold plunging.
And shout out to my friendshannon.
She literally was dragging meto this cold plunge.
(30:49):
The first time I ever did oneat a retreat in Bayfield,
wisconsin.
There was like an outside tub.
It was like 36 degrees and Iwas like I'm not going to do
that.
There's no way I would ever dosomething like that.
And she's like it's right here,there's a sauna, right here,
you're going to do it.
And the mind clarity and thenatural high that I got from
(31:09):
that.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, yeah, so glad I did it, so thank you, shannon,
and it's a stepping stone, abuilding block to everything
else, because you get a few ofthose under your belt, things
that you were afraid of ordidn't have the right level of
self-confidence.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, and then everything just kind of tips
like dominoes.
After that it's like, well,okay, well, what can I logically
be afraid of after what I'vebeen through already?
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, so that's kind of my spirituality is doing hard
things.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Cool.
Yeah, all right, thanks forcoming on.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
You're welcome, love you, thank you.
Love you too.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Not comes from the Greek word sailor and means
voyager or traveler.
Like an astronaut searching thestars, a supernaut is one
searching the inner and outerworlds of self, navigating life,
consciousness and reality,striving for betterment.
The paradox is that seeking andstriving can create more unrest
and more unhappiness.
So, while calm seas may notmake great sailors, I plan to
(32:11):
explore the idea of lightrescuing darkness instead of
fighting it.
This is Supernaught.
My name is Beth Kelling and I'mgoing to talk about
spirituality, sobriety and thespectrum of self.
I've loved talking aboutspirituality for as long as I
can remember and I've been on asobriety journey since 2020.
The more I talk about sobriety,the stronger I become.
The more I explore spirituality, the more fulfilled I feel.
This is a space for stories andfor the moments where struggle
(00:21):
meets transformation.
This is Super Knot, hi Steve.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey Bethy, Bear.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Thanks for being my first guest on Super Knot.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Super Knot.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
For those who don't know, steve and I are brother
and sister, and for thosewatching who are like how is
that possible?
Look at this drastic agedifference.
I'm so young and vibrant and'relike clearly middle-aged.
So why don't you tell the storythat you loved to tell when I
was growing up of how I cameinto existence?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Okay.
So back in those days everytown had at least one or two
drugstores where you didn't haveto go all the way to Walmart or
anywhere.
You got a haircut, you gotwhatever you needed, you got
your birth control.
So I was with dad on a Saturdayand we went to a hall drug and
(01:16):
he gets something.
And then he kind of looks downand tells me yeah, your mom
wants me to get one of thosevasectomies, but yeah, this is
good enough.
And then literally I don't know, three months later they were
like well, it didn't work,you're going to have another
(01:37):
brother or sister.
So, yeah, they didn't want you.
The rest of us wanted you.
Mom and dad definitely did not,but Eddie and I and Michael
wanted you for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Good, okay, all right .
So that clears up this drasticage difference of 15 years.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Oh, and then Dad did get a vasectomy shortly after
that.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Oh, okay, yeah for sure.
Okay, all right.
So one of the main themes ofthis podcast is spirituality,
and the reason I wanted you onas my first guest is because you
were the first person I everheard decide to question the
faith that they were brought upin.
You were the first person thatmade me realize I should go out
(02:19):
and find my own truth.
That just because I was borninto a certain religion doesn't
mean that I should naively,blindly accept the story laid
before me.
I was a teenager and I canremember right where we were.
It was in the office here, andyou said to E that you were
renouncing Christianity untilyou researched every other
religion, at least themainstream ones.
You made it sound so obvious tome that it was wild and maybe
(02:42):
even irresponsible to grow upbelieving what you were told,
and so I wanted to say for therecord that I'm getting more and
more excited about Christianityall the time.
But what a blessing it is tohave the opportunity to be
excited about it because I aloneam choosing it to know that I
went out and searched and havefound my own version of truth.
(03:02):
So I'm not sure how long itwould have taken me to do that.
Maybe everybody realizes thatmaybe it's obvious to everybody
that they should do that, butI'm not sure, because in Mora,
minnesota, rural Minnesota, Iwas in my mid twenties before I
could openly say that I wasgoing to yoga classes, because
people thought that was voodoodevil's juice, you know.
(03:27):
So for you to have given me atsuch a young age the opportunity
to think outside of thatbecause I didn't even know it
was okay to learn about anotherreligion, let alone dive into
one.
So when I was 19 or 20, I toldmom that I was interested in
Buddhism and she brought me to acouple temples in the metro,
but she literally said likelet's just not tell your dad
(03:48):
about this.
So, um, my question is whatbrought you to this decision?
This had have been 25, 25 yearsago or so, but how did people
react?
What was your mind state?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Um, well, it's probably a 10 year process
process of the first time Ithought about this just doesn't
seem right to me to being ableto even say it out loud to
myself, let alone telling otherpeople and very few people
probably the first 10 years thatI ever talked about it with
(04:24):
openly.
Because, yeah, a few hundredyears ago you get burnt at the
stake, you know, for saying thatyou didn't believe in Jesus or
you know whatever religion youwere supposed to believe in and
it was scary, I mean, and Ithink that that's, you know,
part of the stronghold ofreligion is that gets burnt into
(04:45):
your brain at such a young agethat it is sinful to even think
about anything else other thanjust to follow exactly what
you're told.
In Mora, the pastor there toldus openly that every other
(05:08):
person in the city of Mora atevery other church was going to
go to hell because they went tochurches other than Zion
Lutheran, missouri Synod Church,like, oh, you know, you can
talk to them, but just don'tplan on seeing them after you
die because they're all going tohell.
So it wasn't even like Muslimsor Hindus or some completely
(05:37):
radically different religion.
It was other people that weresupposedly also Christians.
So what started me on the pathof questioning it?
Well, just the idea that whereyou're born decides what
religion.
And because I happened to beborn in a family that not only
(06:00):
was Christian but happened to beGerman, missouri Synod Lutheran
and I was one of the select fewout of billions of people
because of where I was bornBullshit, complete, complete
crap.
And every religion has a storyyou know, or followers of the
religion have stories about how,what makes them feel like it's
(06:25):
real to them, the experiencesthat they've had, external and
internal.
Well, they all have it.
There's no religion thatsurvives that doesn't have
people who, to their core,internally and externally, feel
like they have justification andrelevance for believing what
(06:48):
they believe.
Well, how is that possible?
So it was like a 10-yearprocess of just stripping away
every layer, every detail ofwell, why do I believe this?
And it wasn't just religion byany means, it was every single
thing, thing.
Do I believe this to be a truthbecause I, this is what I was
told, or because this is whatI've observed?
(07:10):
And then, even when you getdown to the things that you
believe, it's because whatyou've observed you realize that
you've observed such a tinyfraction of you know experience
that your judgment can becompletely biased or skewed, or
the sample size is just toosmall to you know to make
(07:30):
decisions on.
So uh yeah, I believe almostnothing at this point because
and and it doesn't, it probablythe breakthrough was was
accepting that it doesn't matter.
You know so much of what we'reconcerned about every day.
It really has no effect onutility, value of our lives,
(07:56):
quality of life.
It's just our opinions.
I like that sweater color orthe knit pattern or whatever.
Okay, that's fine, you can likeit all you want, but it's not
better than my pattern.
It's completely benign and mostof our lives are completely
benign, and so it doesn't matterwhat you believe or what you
(08:16):
think is true or not true.
If it makes you happy, great.
If it gives you inspirationgreat, but it really doesn't
matter.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, so can you remember who the first person or
first couple people that youdid say it to I mean Probably
maybe Devin was?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
the first person or first couple of people that you
did say it to.
I mean, uh, uh, probably maybeDevin was the first person.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
How old he would have been.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It was probably in college, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, I was a teenager when I heard you tell
Ethan.
But well, maybe, maybe.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Ethan was the first person that I started arguing
with, because we argued abouteverything.
Whether, whether I believed itor not, I was probably in the
process of getting there.
Yeah, because there was a pointwhere I severely criticized and
chastised him for not going tochurch.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Oh, robin says, you did him too.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yep.
So when I was a thumper andthen I would see these other
people who were apparently Jesusfollowers but not doing
anything about it, never goingto church, not bringing their
kids to church, yeah, I mean, Iwas a complete dick about it At
(09:31):
that age.
If I believed it, everybodyshould believe it.
And especially if you tell meyou believe it but you don't
actually act on it, well then Iwas going to be a total asshole
to you.
So yeah, I was to everybody.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
So it was like, literally when he started going
to church was when I stopped,yeah, and then it was like, fuck
, it's because I always love toargue.
Well, the difference doesn'tmake much.
Pick a side.
I'll argue either side for fun,because you never lose an
argument.
You just learn.
If somebody can shame you withthe dumb, you say something and
(10:07):
then you can't defend it.
Okay, I learned something.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well, you always get mad at me for not arguing with
you enough, and then I'm likebut I agree with what you're
saying.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
What use are you to me if you don't argue with me?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Except that one time a week, after you said it to me,
and then we're talking aboutdrive time.
Oh, yeah, and you were gettingupset and I was like you
literally just told me to arguewith you.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I didn't say I wasn't going to get upset, that's okay
.
I mean yeah, Ideally, I meanyeah, I mean ideally.
You don't get emotional aboutan argument.
You argue the points, themerits of your point of view,
and if you can't defend them youfucking lose.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, so did you dive in toother religions or did you kind
of just stop believing what you?
Yeah, so I did hear you saythat you were going to research
other religions.
So there's still time, you'renot that old yet.
Yeah yeah maybe you don't wantto, and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
The other part about it is I don't think we have as
much control as we think we do,or we wish we had, in how our
own minds work, so like I couldwake up tomorrow and be like,
wow, I've been an idiot for thelast 20 years.
Jesus is real, I can feel himright here.
That literally might happentomorrow and there's there's
(11:28):
very little I can consciously doto control that you know,
because mom and dad used toalways say well you know faith.
Faith is a gift.
That you know because mom anddad used to always say well, you
know faith.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Faith is a gift.
Well, I guess I don't have thefucking gift.
So who is in control then?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I don't know what comes into your brain a perfect
example of I don't know and it'sokay not to know yeah right and
I don't want to bash you knowour father too much here, but he
needs to know answers toeverything, everything.
He can't walk by somebody'sdesk without picking what's this
?
Why is this here?
Who does this belong to?
He needs to know the answer toeverything, and I observed that
(12:07):
and just decided I don't need toknow the answers to anything
except what directly affects myday-to-day life.
Everything else is.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
But that's real faith .
Speaker 2 (12:18):
It's just trivia at that point.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, but I think that's what God wants us to feel
is yeah, we don't have to knoweverything because we trust Him.
I think Dad is a bad example ofsomebody who is religious, who
does need to know everything.
That's just how his brain works.
But I mean, so that's almostlike a faith that you're putting
faith in something, aren't you,by not needing to know
(12:43):
everything because somebodyhasn't?
Speaker 2 (12:44):
figured it out.
I don't need to have faith.
I wake up every morning.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
I'm alive.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
My legs work, my arms work, my eyes are working, I
get up.
Even if I didn't have all thosethings, I could crawl out of
bed to find nourishment.
What do I need?
To have faith in?
Everything works.
I survive, and if it doesn'twork, and I die, well, so does
everything else.
I'm not special.
I'm not going to live forever.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Everything dies.
Well, I mean, with moderntechnology we might live quite a
while.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Yeah, who knows, Maybe.
But yeah, the next generationevolution progress can't be made
.
I mean, if we lived forever,we'd probably just be holding
the world back, Mm-hmm Right.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, yeah.
I think there's somethingspecial about knowing you're
going to die and that life isshort.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
and then you To me it's more meaningful because, no
, there's not some magic placeyou're going to go to after you
die and you're going to get tosee everyone and you get to make
up for all the bad stuff youdid in purgatory, if you're a
Catholic or something.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
No, this is it, and that's why I'm not scared of AI,
because I think that they'regoing to be jealous of us for
that exact reason.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Not jealous like mean to us jealous, but like respect
us for that we have that andthey don't, Because we're
precious and fragile and onlyhere for a short time.
So they better appreciate us.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah, well, hopefully they help remind us that that's
why we're here and help us holdon to that and help us be more
creative.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, I don't know why we're here.
We are, and maybe we'll findout when we die Either way, but
I'm fairly confident thatbecause I don't believe in a
very specific thing, that I'mgoing to be somehow tortured in
hell for eternity.
That's absurd.
(14:41):
I don't think I'm ever going towake up and think that is a
real thing.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Right.
Well, I believe you can be inhell on earth.
If your thoughts arecontrolling in a negative way,
that's hell on earth.
A lot of people are living in anegative way.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
That's hell on earth A lot of people are living in it
, yeah, so, yeah, that's sad.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
I think you can live in heaven and on this earth as
well.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
But just like you know, I was saying that you
can't control.
You know how do those peopleget out of that.
You know, it's not like you canjust Well, I think, think,
meditating deep breathingmedication in some ways.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yes, that is needed at times when you really can't
get out because brain umchemistry.
So I have realized that b12s orany b vitamins get me depressed
and 25% of population has thismutation that I have.
I took that Gary Brekkamutation.
(15:41):
I think I had to send my bloodin and it's like M-T-R-R-M-R-T-T
.
I can't remember which mutationit is.
Look it up.
No, but not right now.
But I was drinking these B12sfor two days last week and all
of a sudden I got home and allof a sudden, out of nowhere, it
(16:01):
was like my brain did somethingwhere I was depressed and I was
like what Do I have to bedepressed?
Well, there's nothing literallygoing on.
But then it clicked that threeother times when I've.
I know this, I know I shouldn'ttake Bs.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
And so I stopped and now I'm feeling better.
But it was like my brain didthis thing where it was so
clearly a chemical imbalance.
So of course I supportmedication for people who are
having a hard time and can't getout of things, because I think
sometimes there's nothing elseyou can do.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But for me, it's too bad that there's a stigma to it.
But, yeah, uh, I wear cheatersbecause, uh, my eyes aren't
perfect.
Yeah, right, yeah, uh, peopleuse hearing aids.
They do all sorts of things, uh, to make their lives better or
(16:55):
to improve what isn't quiteperfect.
And just because, yeah, youhave to take some meds because
of a chemical imbalance thatmesses with your mind, that's
just.
It's too bad that there's sucha negative stigma about that.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
And those meds, or before you're on the meds, your
brain might be in patterns oftalking negatively to yourself
and about other people.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
But so then it's also your responsibility.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Once you have some kind of help to get you out of
that compulsive thinking.
You have to make an effort atthinking positive thoughts,
meditating, shutting your brainoff, breathing.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
But even getting to the point where you're willing
to do that, isn't always achoice either, for sure.
Sometimes it just feels so muchbetter to be angry and to be
upset.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
It can be addictive.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You would ask me to pick a song.
My favorite songs are likeSeether, like horrible.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I was scared you were going to pick a song that was
like a rager.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
I hate the lyrics.
You know it's not.
I love the music, but then, youknow, you end up listening to
these lyrics.
It's like you know, I feel badfor these people Because this
could be a really cool songabout something you know.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, something great , but you can't listen to the
lyrics.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
But there's just so much anger out there, and so I
think that there's a pretty easypathway in society for people
to feel um bad for themselvesand and like a victim.
Right, I mean, if you want tobe a victim, there's, there's.
It's not a pathway, it's afreeway to allow you and to
(18:32):
encourage you to embracevictimhood.
Why, I don't know, there mustbe money in it for somebody.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
I mean, that's why I think the media is making so
much money right now, becausethey are what's the word?
Taking that out of people?
I mean keeping people stuck inthat.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, pharmaceuticals making money off people who do
take the drugs and convincingpeople that it's somebody else's
fault.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Well, yeah, it's a feeling and it's an emotion to
feel negative and sad and thatcan be hard to let go of when
you've felt it for so long, orif you grew up in a household
where you felt that way yeah Imean.
So it's like almost, if you letit go, you're abandoning that
part of yourself yeah, but okay.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
so, but at the same time that that, uh, that that
somebody who feels like a victimand then embraces that, I don't
think that that's their faultand rights, and so I don't think
we can take credit for beinglike oh, we're these smart,
enlightened people that wehaven't fallen into that trap.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
No.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
It's not our.
I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
No.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Why we're not those people?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I think it takes work , it takes conscious work.
Why we're not those people?
I think it takes work, it takesconscious work.
What's that movie about?
What's his name, mr Rogers?
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I love that movie.
Did you ever watch it?
I think I told you to.
So his wife goes up to thereporter and says he's not just
naturally this nice and good ofa person, he has to work really
hard at it.
He swims every single day.
He gets his demons out some way.
That's why people run, that'swhy people work themselves hard.
(20:29):
I think that's why people dolots of things.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
There probably is some balance.
Maybe that's the spiritualitythat if you're good at one thing
, it's probably at the expenseof something else If you're
sensitive to one thing it'sprobably at the expense of
something else.
If you're sensitive to one thing, it's probably because you're
ignoring something else.
It's really hard to be superconscientious of your health and
fitness and work hard and be incontrol of your relationships,
(20:54):
or doing what you can to be incontrol and positive, and all at
the same time.
Usually it's I am focusing onwork right now and fuck
everything else, or I'm going toignore work because I want to
spend time with family, and thenwork suffers.
It's impossible to serve morethan one master.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, you can't be good at absolutely everything.
You have to pick and choose.
Maybe right now you're servingice baths.
Are you still cold plunging?
Speaker 2 (21:25):
No, I did that for about a month and then I really
started to feel like it was.
If anything, it was hurting myworkouts because I'm working out
right afterwards and I wasfrozen for the first 20 minutes.
I could feel the cold in mybones for 20 minutes into my
(21:45):
workout.
Well, that has to be slowing mymetabolism down.
It has to be slowing everything.
So I thought, well, if I'mgoing to do it, I have to do it
dead center between workouts,not right before or right after.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Yeah, I've just been doing it on days that I think
are going to be hard and I wantto just get the hardest thing
out of the way, and I wanted totoday.
But I also today I just reallywanted to stay in my feminine
energy and it seems like coldplenogen is kind of more of a
masculine like I'm going to dohard things Bullshit.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
So I was perfectly happy if the water was 59, 60
degrees and go in.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Nicole would drain the tub because it comes out of
the faucet at 40 degrees.
She would drain the tub and getit down to at least 50 and be
in there for like four minutes.
She's always been a tough bitch.
She is fucking tough.
And if she happened to get upbefore me and drain the tub and
(22:53):
get it down to that temperature,well you know I couldn't like
add hot water, so I and yeahthat it's brutal.
There's a huge differencebetween 60 degrees and 50
degrees right.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
It comes out at mine at 57 and I can get it down to
54 with some ice, you wouldthink it would get colder, but
it wasn't.
But when I was just in Icelandand we were in like this lagoon
and they had a cold, so it waslike I think it was probably 35,
because that's what thetemperature was outside 35, 36
because there wasn't any airflowing into it, it just yeah
(23:26):
and the way that it takes yourbreath away.
Yeah, I mean oh, it's justamazing it is.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
It is when you're in the tub.
You can't get.
You know you can't get yourwhole body in at one time.
So, without thinking, I wouldjust immediately go from bed to
the tub, no thinking whatsoever,just sit right down and it's
like five seconds of oh my God.
But then every time you slide alittle bit deeper into it, you
(23:54):
have that process all over againbecause you're trying to get
your whole body into it.
So it was brutal, but at thesame time it was like just
proving to yourself that you'renot going to die and just
proving to yourself that you cando it if you want to.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, no for sure.
That's the main reason I'mdoing it is to prove to myself
that I can do the hard things.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
That's the main reason I'm doing it is to prove
to myself that I can do the hardthings.
You asked about job sites inthe spring and mud.
My actual favorite memory ofbuilding was with Eddie, our
older brother, in the wintertime.
It had to be at least 20 belowa job site in Zimmerman.
It's right on 169, so everytime I go down drive 169 through
(24:44):
Zimmerman I get to look at thisbuilding but it was so brutally
cold.
There was four of us, eddie andI and two other guys, and we
walked around the corner of thebuilding and the other two guys
were literally hugging eachother like kind of almost crying
because it was so cold.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
And.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Ed and I just got this warm feeling of joy inside
of us because, I mean, it wascold but we weren't started
making snowmen and having asnowball fight, just to taunt
the other guys that you know wewere stronger men than they were
(25:26):
.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Cute.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Yeah, favorite memory of building a shed with Ed.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Very cute.
I'll remember that one.
Oh, so I am going to have tobring you to an EDM concert.
I went to my first one lastweek and, because you said you
don't like the lyrics, but youlike the rager music noise like
an EDM concert.
You just stand there and itvibrates your whole body.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And I was definitely the oldest one there.
I was almost 40 and justgetting into them now kind of
silly, but I don't care, becauseit was so amazing and I'm like
already that's the name of theartist is EDM no, he was lane
eight, but EDM is electric music, dance music, electronic dance
music, I don't know, but umthat's when it's just like.
(26:17):
It's a genre, yeah, a genre,and it just vibrates your whole
body Okay.
And yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
I'll check it out.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
It's like a massage for your brain.
Somebody called it.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Wow, mm-hmm.
Well, that could be good.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah, and there's not too many lyrics.
There's some, but like you said, the lyrics on Seether and some
of these bands that you like.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
It's not good to put into your soul.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
It probably isn't yeah, yeah, but you need the
beat, you need the I don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I like the guitar, yeah, I like the drums, I like
the bass, but yeah, the lyricsare all pretty silly.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Mm-hmm, cool.
Well, I think that I'm going tohave you on Super Knot quite
often, hopefully once a monthbecause you have so much insight
.
Super Knot means a voyagersearching and striving for
betterment and working toimprove themselves, their lives
and their surroundings.
(27:14):
So what do you do right nowthat you don't want your
grandkids to do when they'reyour age?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
What do I do right now that I don't want my
grandkids to do?
Uh, I listen to uh audio booksinstead of read books.
So it would be great if theylearned to love to read actual
(27:43):
paperback uh books instead ofjust listen.
Listen to audio.
It's always been a hugeweakness of mine.
If I won't if I can't sleepbooks instead of just listen to
audio.
It's always been a hugeweakness of mine, if I can't
sleep, pick up a book instantly,I'll sleep.
So I hope they learn to read.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, that's a good one.
What do you do that you hopeyour grandkids do do when
they're your age?
Speaker 2 (28:08):
do when they're your age.
If they ever recognizesomething in themselves that
creates fear or anxiety or doubt, that, they go straight into it
instead of avoiding it, tryingto circumvent it or pretend it's
(28:30):
not there Fucking tackle it,it's the biggest thrill.
I mean if you weren't afraid youwere going to die, skydiving
would be boring.
I mean whoa, okay, wow, butit's the fact that there's a
real chance you're going to dieis what makes skydiving awesome,
or rock climbing, or drivingyour motorcycle faster than you
(29:00):
should.
I'm not saying all those thingsare wise, smart things to do,
but the fear of public speaking,that's one of your greatest
accomplishments in life, ofovercoming something.
Literally crying, when theteacher made you do your first
speech in high school.
To now you do it almost everyday.
Yeah, I mean you could havedone the exact opposite and
(29:22):
taken an F on that or whatever,and never engaged with it, but
you hit it straight on.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, we talk about that often chasing the things
that scare us the most or evendislike.
It's so funny.
I know I'm not going to be ableto think of any examples right
now, but things even that Idislike that.
I start to lean into and I'mlike, oh my gosh, there's a
reason I dislike this, because Ihad to figure out something,
some aspect of it that I didlike and yes, especially public
(29:51):
speaking in high school criedevery time, um my, when I became
crew manager at Sherman and Idid a speech in the morning
meeting and then I went homethat afternoon and cried for
like three hours.
I just had to get all theemotions out.
And even this is so scary to me.
But I never would have beenable to do this if it wasn't the
(30:13):
small steps that I took goingtowards it.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
But I mean, you look back at it now and it's silly
right.
So it's not going to take longbefore you think that this was
silly and it's all being nervousabout it was silly.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, and the cold plunging too.
I mean, I dislike being coldmore than anything.
I've tried to move away fromminnesota, so many times.
Yeah, one of the six blanketpeople yes, yes, a heated
blanket, of the heated littlepacks that I just get home and I
put all over my body, um, butthe cold plunging.
And shout out to my friendshannon.
She literally was dragging meto this cold plunge.
(30:49):
The first time I ever did oneat a retreat in Bayfield,
wisconsin.
There was like an outside tub.
It was like 36 degrees and Iwas like I'm not going to do
that.
There's no way I would ever dosomething like that.
And she's like it's right here,there's a sauna, right here,
you're going to do it.
And the mind clarity and thenatural high that I got from
(31:09):
that.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Yeah, yeah, so glad I did it, so thank you, shannon,
and it's a stepping stone, abuilding block to everything
else, because you get a few ofthose under your belt, things
that you were afraid of ordidn't have the right level of
self-confidence.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Yeah, and then everything just kind of tips
like dominoes.
After that it's like, well,okay, well, what can I logically
be afraid of after what I'vebeen through already?
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, so that's kind of my spirituality is doing hard
things.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Cool.
Yeah, all right, thanks forcoming on.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
You're welcome, love you, thank you.
Love you too.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Not comes from the Greek word sailor and means
voyager or traveler.
Like an astronaut searching thestars, a supernaut is one
searching the inner and outerworlds of self, navigating life,
consciousness and reality,striving for betterment.
The paradox is that seeking andstriving can create more unrest
and more unhappiness.
So, while calm seas may notmake great sailors, I plan to
(32:11):
explore the idea of lightrescuing darkness instead of
fighting it.
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