April 25, 2025 • 19 mins
I am always looking for ways to improve. Send me a text and let me know your thoughts! - Kevin
Watch the video version of this podcast on YouTube.
Katie Penner, Head of Sender Relations at Sendoso, takes us deep into how gifting is transforming B2B marketing by delivering remarkable results where digital channels fall short. With 64% of marketers struggling to hit revenue targets with current budgets, the renewed interest in thoughtful, human-first marketing approaches couldn't be more timely.
What makes modern gifting so powerful? Katie reveals how strategic gifting delivers a 4x return on investment and accelerates sales cycles by 29% when integrated properly. The key distinction she emphasizes is moving beyond transactional gifting to relationship-building approaches that connect with prospects as actual humans. Today's buyers crave this personalization—71% expect personalized interactions and 76% get frustrated without them.
Katie walks us through exactly how Sendoso integrates with marketing technology ecosystems including Salesforce, HubSpot, Clay, and Gong to create automated yet deeply personalized gifting moments throughout the buyer journey. From pre-demo coffee gift cards to help break through inbox clutter, to thoughtfully selected items based on a prospect's personal interests, these touchpoints create meaningful connections in an increasingly digital world.
Looking toward the future, Katie shares how AI is revolutionizing gifting by enabling true personalization at scale. Imagine AI agents that can identify when an account has gone cold, suggest the perfect gift based on a prospect's interests scraped from social media, and deliver it at exactly the right moment—all without adding to your team's workload. The possibilities for creating genuine human connections while maintaining efficiency are tremendously exciting.
Want to implement effective gifting strategies today? Visit sendoso.com/playbooks for free, ungated resources with proven playbooks you can adapt for your business.
Connect with Katie on LinkedIn or email her at katiepenner@sendoso.com to learn more about transforming your marketing approach with the power of human connection.
🎧 Tech Marketing Rewired is hosted by Kevin Kerner, founder of Mighty & True.
New episodes drop regularly with unfiltered conversations from the frontlines of B2B and tech marketing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kevin Kerner (00:00):
Hey everyone, this is Kevin Kerner with Tech
Marketing Rewired.
If you think gifting is just agimmick, this episode might
change your mind.
I sat down with Katie Penner,who's head of sender relations
at Sendoso, and we got into whyhuman-first marketing isn't just
fluff it's outperformingtraditional channels.
We talked about how gifting candrive a four-times ROI when
it's done right, the differencebetween transactional junk and
(00:22):
thoughtful engagement, and whypersonalization at scale is
finally possible thanks to AIand tools like Clay.
You know I know many of my techmarketing friends love Sendozo
and they're amazing people andplatform, so I'm really excited
to get this one out there.
So let's get to it.
This is Tech Marketing Rewired.
Welcome to the show, katie.
Katie Penner (00:46):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to chattoday.
Kevin Kerner (00:49):
So tell me a little bit about yourself, and
what does Sender Relations meanin practice at Sendoso.
Katie Penner (00:53):
Yeah, so my name is Katie Penner and I live in
Houston, Texas.
I have two kids so definitelynot competing with Kevin, you
guys don't know.
And yeah, outside of work, Ilove cooking and hanging out
with my kids.
Really, that is what you knowtakes up most of my days.
Head of Cinder Relations is atitle that we kind of created
(01:14):
for my roles For those thatdon't know me or you know my
journey at Cindo, so I actuallystarted here as a SDR in 2021.
And I, you know, solved for gapsthat I noticed throughout my
career here, which led me tokind of being promoted pretty
consistently, ping pongingbetween sales development roles
and marketing roles.
(01:34):
And once Casey Jenkins, our SVPof marketing, joined Sendoso,
she saw that I was building apersonal brand for myself on
LinkedIn.
I was really connecting withthe community, putting our brand
at the forefront of what I wascreating and, you know, really
kind of opening the world up,the Sendoso world up to you know
, putting a face to the Sendosoname, and we saw how effective
(01:55):
that was and Casey said, hey,you need to come work for me.
And so at this point in mycareer today, I own all of our
organic social.
I also own our outbound BDRteam.
I own our relationship and ourplays and our strategy behind
clay and kind of all of theautomated outbound that we're
doing there among some otherlittle sprinkles of things.
But you know, community andoutbound are my two main pillars
(02:18):
of my job today.
Kevin Kerner (02:19):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I think I don't know if you Ididn't mention this to you, but
I started my career as an SDRyears and years ago Like this
would have been way beforeSendoso and gifting.
There's something about beingan SDR, I think that you
understand like the pulse of thecustomer.
But, it's so good because youhave to like be in front of them
, on the phone with them.
It's just, you're as close tothe customer as you get.
Katie Penner (02:48):
Yeah, I think it's the best foundation that you
can, because you deal with everysingle objection, learn about
every integration intimatelybecause you need to speak to it.
You learn how to convincenaysayers that they should take
a meeting, which is a veryvaluable skill that definitely
translates into marketing at ahigher level today.
So, yeah, I wouldn't change itfor the world.
I think it's.
I think it's the best way thatI could have started here.
Kevin Kerner (03:03):
Yeah, that's great .
I wish we would have had itback then, sendoso back then,
because it really would havecome in handy.
Katie Penner (03:08):
That's for sure.
Kevin Kerner (03:09):
OK, so I wanted to start by getting your take on.
You know this corporate giftinghas been around for a while and
but it seems like at least withour customers there's a there's
a curiosity in it If they'renot using it, if they use it a
few times, maybe there's kind ofa resurgence.
What do you think is drivingthe renewed interest in gifting?
Katie Penner (03:27):
Yeah.
So I think it all comes back tothe state of marketing that we
are seeing today.
Marketers are expected to domore with less, right, we hear
that constantly.
But if we actually look at thedata, marketers are seeing
diminishing returns ontraditional channels.
So they're having to figure outyou know what is going on.
How do I you know kind of workwith my budget right?
(03:49):
64% of marketers today, cmos,don't feel like they can hit
their revenue targets with thebudgets that they have, so
they're having to get creative.
They're having to look attoday's buyers.
Today's buyers 71% of themactually expect these
personalized reactions orinteractions, and then 76% of
them are getting reallyfrustrated without it.
(04:09):
I think marketers today areasking themselves how do we
infuse that human firstmarketing back into our strategy
?
And so I think that a lot ofthat is why we see marketers
coming back and looking at thedirect mail channel, because,
ultimately, gifting is a reallygreat way to connect with your
buyers on a personal, deeperlevel, and they see that with
the data right of what peopleare getting back from their
(04:32):
gifting campaigns.
To give you a little bit of anidea of the ROI right of gifting
For every dollar spent, the ROIis four with Sendop.
So I think that that kind ofexplains.
You know the shift and you knowthe general consensus of
opinion on gifting today.
Kevin Kerner (04:49):
Yeah, that's cool.
I want to get into some of thecooler integrations and systems
that drive all this huge ROI.
But just, I mean, one of thebig elephants in the room for
our customers is sometimes howdo you track ROI?
How do you actually measure theROI of gifting?
Have you seen any unique wayswhere people actually can track
the end result of spending moneyon gifting versus maybe or
maybe with integrated channels?
Katie Penner (05:10):
Yeah, absolutely so.
At Sendosa, we actually buildout ROI dashboards for all of
our customers so you can seeexactly what you're spending on
what kinds of gifts, what'slanding with what kind of
audiences.
You know all of those things soyou can track by campaign and
know exactly how much you'respending, what is performing and
what's not.
Obviously, integrations makethis a lot easier.
(05:31):
So if you're integrating with,let's say, salesforce, hubspot,
right, it's really easy to trackthe.
You know not just what'sclosing and what is influencing
pipeline, but also dealprogression.
So we actually had a test runor a study run by an independent
company and they found thatgifting actually speeds up deal
cycles by 29% as well.
So we are able to track all ofthat within platform and with
(05:54):
our integrations today.
Kevin Kerner (05:56):
Yes, Okay, so I want to talk about the process
and what it looks like best case, particularly the processes
that as it works with thisintegrated marketing ecosystem
that we now have.
You know you've got tools likeHubSpot and Salesforce, and you
mentioned Clay and Gong.
What's the process looking likebest case and maybe also talk
through how that process isusing other technologies to make
it work?
Katie Penner (06:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I think I'll start bytalking about the traditional
integration, right, which isgoing to be your Salesforce or
your HubSpot, and then we'll getinto kind of the more new age
integrations and plugins, apis,with tools like Clay.
So to start, right, let's saythat you're using Salesforce,
right?
I think that is probably themost popular CRM today, right?
So if you're using Salesforce,you can tell, you know, you have
(06:38):
different stages of a deal,right?
So let's say it's pre-demo,post-initial demo, right, and
then you move to stage three,four, five and then to a close,
right, so we can actuallyintegrate with your Salesforce
to be able to say, you know, youtell us, hey, we see a drop-off
from stage two to stage three.
We want to trigger.
You know, maybe it's a plant toan additional stakeholder to
(06:58):
loop them in with a note cardthat says, hey, wanted to plant
the idea of looping you into myconversation with Kevin about
how gifting can reinvigorateyour ABM strategy, right?
Whatever, right.
And so that is automaticallytriggered, the kind of you know
workforce around.
That is very simple, right, youidentify the signal, you create
the trigger and then youcomplete the action.
Where I see the traditional kindof integration working the best
(07:21):
is again at stages likepre-demo, where you're sending
personalized gifts to yourprospects to capture attention
and earn the right to aconversation that will hopefully
lead to a meeting.
And I think that this is reallyimportant, kevin, because I
think that another aspect ofgifting that people don't really
get is that they think thatit's highly transactional.
Of gifting that people don'treally get is that they think
that it's highly transactional,and people that are using
(07:43):
gifting very transactionallytypically do not see the same
results as someone that is usingit as a relationship builder to
build, you know, someone thatwants to talk to your team, that
has a positive view of yourteam, right, and so I want to
highlight that that this is likepre-demo it is earning the
right to even have aconversation and get to the
point where you can ask for time.
Right, so that may look yeah,so it may look something like
(08:04):
hey, you're attending AdobeSummit next week.
Those events are reallyexhausting.
Grab an extra coffee on mewhile you're there without an
ask, right.
We just hope that that willstart a conversation now.
Post-demo, Right, and he's on aphone call and instead of
talking about the weather, right, maybe you ask them what
they're doing this weekend andthat can get you some really
cool insights into.
(08:24):
You know what kind of personthey are.
Or you know, if you're settingup an automatic trigger, then
we're talking about.
You know, maybe it's a persona,maybe for field marketers,
you're saying, hey, you like totravel a lot, I'm going to send
you an ostrich pillowcase tomake your plane travel easier,
right?
So there's all these ways thatwe can activate these motions
throughout the funnel.
Then, going into the more newage, chef, right with clay.
(08:50):
So we actually have an APIcalled SmartSend, which is a
really awesome tool that willscrape the internet for
information about your prospectsand find some interest.
So, for example, for me, itknows that I, you know, love the
Astros, right?
So it will go and find anAstros related gift within our
catalog and automatically plugthat into Play Outbound.
So the way that we arepositioning it typically is
putting it as a PS and sayingyou know, hey, ps Katie saw that
(09:14):
you're really into the Astros,wanted to send this Astros hot
your way, right?
So there's really really funways to plug and play gifting
that feel humanized andpersonalized, but you're able to
do these things at scale, soit's really exciting stuff.
Kevin Kerner (09:27):
Yeah, I love it.
I'm sorry, you're an Astros fanthough.
Katie Penner (09:31):
I'm honestly not, it's just for some reason.
Well, that came to my mind.
I am not a sports person at all, so I kind of cringed
internally when that was, forsome reason in the brain.
I a sports person at all, so Ikind of cringed internally when
that was for some reason in thebrain.
Kevin Kerner (09:42):
I'm not an astro.
Yeah, you mentioned that.
Like some of these use cases, Ithink the human touch of things
I know you guys talk a lotabout the human part of gifting.
I think that's really importantbecause it can be so
transactional and cold and,especially with a lot of these
triggers that are going on, howdo you keep it from being just a
, you know, just a seem like akitschy or maybe thing to do for
(10:02):
customers?
Katie Penner (10:03):
Yeah.
So I think the biggest thingthat I kind of preach to our
customers when it comes to, youknow, automating these efforts
is make sure that it's relevant,right, because at this point
we're not going one to one,we're going, you know, one to
few, one to many, right.
So it's important to attach itto a relevant trigger or you
know some sort of indicator.
So, for example, if we'resending out an automated
(10:24):
campaign to people who areattending an event, right, we go
back to the coffee, example,pre event, right, that can feel
really personalized.
Everyone that goes to eventsgets exhausted at some point,
right, they are draining, sothat is a common experience
that's going to probablyresonate with someone that's
traveling to said event Right,traveling to said event, right.
(10:47):
So, like, how can you usedifferent things, like a common
experience or a common rolewhere you know a field marketer
is constantly traveling, thatsort of thing?
Or how can you relate a gift tothe message that you're trying
to, you know, convey?
So, for example, if we'retrying to expand that sphere of
influence, you wanted to plantthe idea of connecting and find
time to dig into your XYZstrategy with this person that
you know, right.
Like all of those things, Ithink, really help to create a
(11:09):
more personalized experience atscale.
Kevin Kerner (11:11):
If you and I think for many people that haven't
done it before, it's it's andthis is what's so great about
working with the Centosocuration team is they're really
good at like coming up with theuse cases.
But I think for marketing, formarketers, just getting started
it's a little daunting, like youjust don't know where to start.
What's the what's a simplefirst step that a marketer can
take tomorrow to get this typeof stuff going.
Katie Penner (11:32):
Yeah, so that's a great question.
So we have actually, you know,compiled all of this kind of
brain bank of gifting ideas anddifferent you know triggers and
stages and whatnot.
So if you are curious about howyou can implement triggered
gifting into your strategy withthe tools that you have today,
visit Sendosocom slash playbooks.
We have created playbooks forall of our different
(11:53):
integrations, with actualdifferent plays that you can run
with the copy that we have seenour customers have success with
.
It is all public.
It is not gated at all.
You can check that out.
I think it's a really awesomeresource for everyone that's
curious about it.
Kevin Kerner (12:07):
So you're in Sender Relations.
You see all these.
You see a lot of these things.
What's your, what are yourfavorite parts of the playbook,
Like?
What are the ones that you likethe best?
Katie Penner (12:14):
Oh gosh, I think my personal favorite has to be
especially with my businessdevelopment backgrounds and
owning a BDR team now, I lovefinding creative ways to break
through the inbox.
Top of funnel that is mypassion.
I think it is so fun to makepeople feel cared about in such
a non-personalized B2B worldthat we're experiencing right
(12:35):
now.
So everything top of funnel isdefinitely like.
Meeting setters are my personalfavorite.
Kevin Kerner (12:42):
It's just like a it's a great door opener.
Katie Penner (12:44):
Right, well, and it sets a tone right.
It sets a tone for higherrelationship moving forward and
it really gives you an advantageabove your competitors because
you were the one that, upfront,not just cared and wanted to
solve for the you know businessissues that they are having
today, but also cared for themas a human being, which I think
so many people are missing today.
Kevin Kerner (13:06):
I want to talk about the future a little.
What do you think that thefuture looks like for gifting
over the next couple of years,especially with AI?
Katie Penner (13:12):
My gosh.
I mean, the possibilities arepretty endless, right.
I think that AI and our toolwill start to, you know,
recognize you can upload a listand then perhaps it'll recognize
what stage these people are at,what their titles are,
automatically.
You know, surface playbooks forthese people.
I think that clay and toolslike that I mean there's
(13:33):
probably already the possibilityto pull in people's addresses
and to automatically have thingsland at their houses without
the need for addressconfirmation information.
Yeah, I think that those arelike the biggest kind of
probably near term things withwith gifting is curated
playbooks at the tip of yourfingers with, you know,
anticipated ROI right in frontof you before you even launch
(13:54):
the campaign based on thesuccess that you've seen, I
think is probably going to bethe biggest thing that I'm
looking forward to.
Kevin Kerner (13:59):
I'm really excited about the use of agents and all
this stuff and the ability forthe AI to go out and figure
stuff out.
It's like, hey, this person hasan opportunity for gifting and
then the agent goes out, figuresout the gift.
Katie Penner (14:10):
Saying like, hey, this AE hasn't talked to this
account in X days.
At this stage we need totrigger a gift and have it land
tomorrow.
Here's what we suggest.
That would be awesome Because Ithink, just like marketers,
sellers are also being boggeddown.
They're smaller teams.
They're dealing with, you know,more deals.
I mean, I certainly know thatwe're dealing with that.
We have a smaller team.
(14:31):
So having those signalstriggered to them, right, and
those alerts saying like, hey,this is kind of, you know, going
uncontacted, let's make surethat we don't drop the ball on
this one.
And let's let's reengage with athoughtful gift and, you know,
pulling transcripts from Gong,that you know surface interest
and things like that and remindthem of those things.
(14:52):
There's just really coolpossibilities for this product
and for gifting in general.
So really, really excited wherethe world of AI and you know,
kind of infusing that with humanfirst takes us.
Kevin Kerner (15:00):
Yeah, love it.
Okay.
I just want to ask you threewrap up questions here that I
ask on just about all of these.
So what's one marketing trendyou're most excited about?
Oh goodness.
Katie Penner (15:09):
I think, obviously the trend of marketers looking
into human-first gifting and howthey can humanize their
marketing and better connectwith their audience.
I think that's really exciting,obviously for personal reasons,
but also because I just thinkit's the right way to market, so
I'd have to say the shifttowards human-first marketing.
Kevin Kerner (15:27):
What's one outdated marketing tactic.
People should stop using Gosh.
That's a toughie.
Katie Penner (15:32):
There's a lot, I feel like gating.
I feel like is kind of gatedtoday.
There was a world back a fewyears ago where we would gate
every single resource that wehad, and we're realizing today
that you close is the way to goright.
We've learned over the pastyear or two years that sharing
(16:00):
information and educationpublicly is the way to build
trust within a community.
So I would definitely saygating is way outdated in my
opinion.
Kevin Kerner (16:08):
And then you're quite active on LinkedIn and you
know I follow you for thoughtleadership and those type of
things.
But who do you follow?
Who would you suggest peoplefollow for thought leadership,
inspiration, just new tactics,gosh great question.
Katie Penner (16:20):
So one of my favorites from early on in my
career this was someone thatmentored me back when I was in
SDR and really helped push me tobecome a better leader, a
better person, a better publicspeaker was Jen Allen Knuth.
She is fantastic.
I would also suggest followingCasey Jenkins.
She just and I know that thatsounds self-serving- yeah, she's
great.
She just started posting and shetruly has taken a non-marketer
(16:44):
and infused, I think, in me whatis most important about
marketing.
We have a tiny, tiny marketingteam, but we punch way above our
weight class, and Casey is theone who was brilliantly sharing
that online.
She deserves far more followersthan I, so please go follow her
.
She is awesome.
Kevin Kerner (16:59):
Yeah, I think I think, with the small team that
you guys have and what you pulloff, it's, it's really
incredible and you guys aresuper active.
The severance thing, by the way, is really awesome.
Yeah, I know that's getting alot of play, but it's really
cool what you guys put together.
Katie Penner (17:10):
Yeah.
So that was.
That was really fun.
We we started these kinds ofcampaigns actually with inspo
from B2C.
So it started around theholiday time when we did our elf
campaign.
And I am my favorite brand inthe world when it comes to
marketing efforts and differentcool things that they do is
Chewycom.
I'm really just impressed withthe whole brand story of Chewy
(17:33):
and you know how, what they camefrom, who they are now, but
anyways, chewy does this thingevery year called Chewy Clause,
where you can submit your dogonline, you can write a note to
Santa and Chewy will randomlysend gifts out to dogs.
And so I went to Casey and Iwas like, hey, we should do this
, but for B2B marketers to finda way to do that, yeah.
(17:53):
And so we were able to takethat kind of blueprint from the
Sindoso elves campaign andduplicate it, edit it a little
bit into what is now today, theseverance campaign.
So you know we didn't have toreinvent the wheel.
We were able to go live with itin just one and a half weeks,
but the elves campaign isalready millions in pipeline.
(18:13):
So I mean it's just goes toshow that like doing these human
first things, focusing onpeople's feelings relating to
them will end up in the rightplace.
Kevin Kerner (18:20):
So that pattern interrupt is great, because
those are pattern interruptcampaigns too.
You don't.
You just don't expect them.
Katie Penner (18:25):
I love that.
I love that you bring that up,because one of the things that I
do and then I'll stop but oneof the things that I do is I
keep a bank of all of the thingsthat I see in everyday life
that inspire me and I put theminto a chat GBT of marketing
inspo and then, anytime I needcreative ideas, I say take all
of this that I've fed you andgive me ideas similar to this
(18:46):
for Sendoso, and it's a reallycool way to get some inspo based
on what has inspired you inreal life.
Kevin Kerner (18:53):
So I at least- Well, this has been great, Katie
.
I know people want to connectwith you more.
I know you have an activeLinkedIn channel, but how do
people get a hold of you if theywant to contact you?
Katie Penner (19:02):
Yeah, so LinkedIn is going to be the best way.
For sure, search up KatiePenner.
You can't miss me.
There's a big, you know giftingbox right by my name, so
definitely connect with me there.
If you have any questions aboutgifting, want to learn more,
want to hop on a call, email meat katiepenner at Sendosacom.
Kevin Kerner (19:17):
That's great.
Thanks so much, Katie.
Hey everyone, this is Kevin Kerner with Tech
Marketing Rewired.
If you think gifting is just agimmick, this episode might
change your mind.
I sat down with Katie Penner,who's head of sender relations
at Sendoso, and we got into whyhuman-first marketing isn't just
fluff it's outperformingtraditional channels.
We talked about how gifting candrive a four-times ROI when
it's done right, the differencebetween transactional junk and
(00:22):
thoughtful engagement, and whypersonalization at scale is
finally possible thanks to AIand tools like Clay.
You know I know many of my techmarketing friends love Sendozo
and they're amazing people andplatform, so I'm really excited
to get this one out there.
So let's get to it.
This is Tech Marketing Rewired.
Welcome to the show, katie.
Katie Penner (00:46):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm really excited to chattoday.
Kevin Kerner (00:49):
So tell me a little bit about yourself, and
what does Sender Relations meanin practice at Sendoso.
Katie Penner (00:53):
Yeah, so my name is Katie Penner and I live in
Houston, Texas.
I have two kids so definitelynot competing with Kevin, you
guys don't know.
And yeah, outside of work, Ilove cooking and hanging out
with my kids.
Really, that is what you knowtakes up most of my days.
Head of Cinder Relations is atitle that we kind of created
(01:14):
for my roles For those thatdon't know me or you know my
journey at Cindo, so I actuallystarted here as a SDR in 2021.
And I, you know, solved for gapsthat I noticed throughout my
career here, which led me tokind of being promoted pretty
consistently, ping pongingbetween sales development roles
and marketing roles.
(01:34):
And once Casey Jenkins, our SVPof marketing, joined Sendoso,
she saw that I was building apersonal brand for myself on
LinkedIn.
I was really connecting withthe community, putting our brand
at the forefront of what I wascreating and, you know, really
kind of opening the world up,the Sendoso world up to you know
, putting a face to the Sendosoname, and we saw how effective
(01:55):
that was and Casey said, hey,you need to come work for me.
And so at this point in mycareer today, I own all of our
organic social.
I also own our outbound BDRteam.
I own our relationship and ourplays and our strategy behind
clay and kind of all of theautomated outbound that we're
doing there among some otherlittle sprinkles of things.
But you know, community andoutbound are my two main pillars
(02:18):
of my job today.
Kevin Kerner (02:19):
Yeah, that's awesome.
I think I don't know if you Ididn't mention this to you, but
I started my career as an SDRyears and years ago Like this
would have been way beforeSendoso and gifting.
There's something about beingan SDR, I think that you
understand like the pulse of thecustomer.
But, it's so good because youhave to like be in front of them
, on the phone with them.
It's just, you're as close tothe customer as you get.
Katie Penner (02:48):
Yeah, I think it's the best foundation that you
can, because you deal with everysingle objection, learn about
every integration intimatelybecause you need to speak to it.
You learn how to convincenaysayers that they should take
a meeting, which is a veryvaluable skill that definitely
translates into marketing at ahigher level today.
So, yeah, I wouldn't change itfor the world.
I think it's.
I think it's the best way thatI could have started here.
Kevin Kerner (03:03):
Yeah, that's great .
I wish we would have had itback then, sendoso back then,
because it really would havecome in handy.
Katie Penner (03:08):
That's for sure.
Kevin Kerner (03:09):
OK, so I wanted to start by getting your take on.
You know this corporate giftinghas been around for a while and
but it seems like at least withour customers there's a there's
a curiosity in it If they'renot using it, if they use it a
few times, maybe there's kind ofa resurgence.
What do you think is drivingthe renewed interest in gifting?
Katie Penner (03:27):
Yeah.
So I think it all comes back tothe state of marketing that we
are seeing today.
Marketers are expected to domore with less, right, we hear
that constantly.
But if we actually look at thedata, marketers are seeing
diminishing returns ontraditional channels.
So they're having to figure outyou know what is going on.
How do I you know kind of workwith my budget right?
(03:49):
64% of marketers today, cmos,don't feel like they can hit
their revenue targets with thebudgets that they have, so
they're having to get creative.
They're having to look attoday's buyers.
Today's buyers 71% of themactually expect these
personalized reactions orinteractions, and then 76% of
them are getting reallyfrustrated without it.
(04:09):
I think marketers today areasking themselves how do we
infuse that human firstmarketing back into our strategy
?
And so I think that a lot ofthat is why we see marketers
coming back and looking at thedirect mail channel, because,
ultimately, gifting is a reallygreat way to connect with your
buyers on a personal, deeperlevel, and they see that with
the data right of what peopleare getting back from their
(04:32):
gifting campaigns.
To give you a little bit of anidea of the ROI right of gifting
For every dollar spent, the ROIis four with Sendop.
So I think that that kind ofexplains.
You know the shift and you knowthe general consensus of
opinion on gifting today.
Kevin Kerner (04:49):
Yeah, that's cool.
I want to get into some of thecooler integrations and systems
that drive all this huge ROI.
But just, I mean, one of thebig elephants in the room for
our customers is sometimes howdo you track ROI?
How do you actually measure theROI of gifting?
Have you seen any unique wayswhere people actually can track
the end result of spending moneyon gifting versus maybe or
maybe with integrated channels?
Katie Penner (05:10):
Yeah, absolutely so.
At Sendosa, we actually buildout ROI dashboards for all of
our customers so you can seeexactly what you're spending on
what kinds of gifts, what'slanding with what kind of
audiences.
You know all of those things soyou can track by campaign and
know exactly how much you'respending, what is performing and
what's not.
Obviously, integrations makethis a lot easier.
(05:31):
So if you're integrating with,let's say, salesforce, hubspot,
right, it's really easy to trackthe.
You know not just what'sclosing and what is influencing
pipeline, but also dealprogression.
So we actually had a test runor a study run by an independent
company and they found thatgifting actually speeds up deal
cycles by 29% as well.
So we are able to track all ofthat within platform and with
(05:54):
our integrations today.
Kevin Kerner (05:56):
Yes, Okay, so I want to talk about the process
and what it looks like best case, particularly the processes
that as it works with thisintegrated marketing ecosystem
that we now have.
You know you've got tools likeHubSpot and Salesforce, and you
mentioned Clay and Gong.
What's the process looking likebest case and maybe also talk
through how that process isusing other technologies to make
it work?
Katie Penner (06:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I think I'll start bytalking about the traditional
integration, right, which isgoing to be your Salesforce or
your HubSpot, and then we'll getinto kind of the more new age
integrations and plugins, apis,with tools like Clay.
So to start, right, let's saythat you're using Salesforce,
right?
I think that is probably themost popular CRM today, right?
So if you're using Salesforce,you can tell, you know, you have
(06:38):
different stages of a deal,right?
So let's say it's pre-demo,post-initial demo, right, and
then you move to stage three,four, five and then to a close,
right, so we can actuallyintegrate with your Salesforce
to be able to say, you know, youtell us, hey, we see a drop-off
from stage two to stage three.
We want to trigger.
You know, maybe it's a plant toan additional stakeholder to
(06:58):
loop them in with a note cardthat says, hey, wanted to plant
the idea of looping you into myconversation with Kevin about
how gifting can reinvigorateyour ABM strategy, right?
Whatever, right.
And so that is automaticallytriggered, the kind of you know
workforce around.
That is very simple, right, youidentify the signal, you create
the trigger and then youcomplete the action.
Where I see the traditional kindof integration working the best
(07:21):
is again at stages likepre-demo, where you're sending
personalized gifts to yourprospects to capture attention
and earn the right to aconversation that will hopefully
lead to a meeting.
And I think that this is reallyimportant, kevin, because I
think that another aspect ofgifting that people don't really
get is that they think thatit's highly transactional.
Of gifting that people don'treally get is that they think
that it's highly transactional,and people that are using
(07:43):
gifting very transactionallytypically do not see the same
results as someone that is usingit as a relationship builder to
build, you know, someone thatwants to talk to your team, that
has a positive view of yourteam, right, and so I want to
highlight that that this is likepre-demo it is earning the
right to even have aconversation and get to the
point where you can ask for time.
Right, so that may look yeah,so it may look something like
(08:04):
hey, you're attending AdobeSummit next week.
Those events are reallyexhausting.
Grab an extra coffee on mewhile you're there without an
ask, right.
We just hope that that willstart a conversation now.
Post-demo, Right, and he's on aphone call and instead of
talking about the weather, right, maybe you ask them what
they're doing this weekend andthat can get you some really
cool insights into.
(08:24):
You know what kind of personthey are.
Or you know, if you're settingup an automatic trigger, then
we're talking about.
You know, maybe it's a persona,maybe for field marketers,
you're saying, hey, you like totravel a lot, I'm going to send
you an ostrich pillowcase tomake your plane travel easier,
right?
So there's all these ways thatwe can activate these motions
throughout the funnel.
Then, going into the more newage, chef, right with clay.
(08:50):
So we actually have an APIcalled SmartSend, which is a
really awesome tool that willscrape the internet for
information about your prospectsand find some interest.
So, for example, for me, itknows that I, you know, love the
Astros, right?
So it will go and find anAstros related gift within our
catalog and automatically plugthat into Play Outbound.
So the way that we arepositioning it typically is
putting it as a PS and sayingyou know, hey, ps Katie saw that
(09:14):
you're really into the Astros,wanted to send this Astros hot
your way, right?
So there's really really funways to plug and play gifting
that feel humanized andpersonalized, but you're able to
do these things at scale, soit's really exciting stuff.
Kevin Kerner (09:27):
Yeah, I love it.
I'm sorry, you're an Astros fanthough.
Katie Penner (09:31):
I'm honestly not, it's just for some reason.
Well, that came to my mind.
I am not a sports person at all, so I kind of cringed
internally when that was, forsome reason in the brain.
I a sports person at all, so Ikind of cringed internally when
that was for some reason in thebrain.
Kevin Kerner (09:42):
I'm not an astro.
Yeah, you mentioned that.
Like some of these use cases, Ithink the human touch of things
I know you guys talk a lotabout the human part of gifting.
I think that's really importantbecause it can be so
transactional and cold and,especially with a lot of these
triggers that are going on, howdo you keep it from being just a
, you know, just a seem like akitschy or maybe thing to do for
(10:02):
customers?
Katie Penner (10:03):
Yeah.
So I think the biggest thingthat I kind of preach to our
customers when it comes to, youknow, automating these efforts
is make sure that it's relevant,right, because at this point
we're not going one to one,we're going, you know, one to
few, one to many, right.
So it's important to attach itto a relevant trigger or you
know some sort of indicator.
So, for example, if we'resending out an automated
(10:24):
campaign to people who areattending an event, right, we go
back to the coffee, example,pre event, right, that can feel
really personalized.
Everyone that goes to eventsgets exhausted at some point,
right, they are draining, sothat is a common experience
that's going to probablyresonate with someone that's
traveling to said event Right,traveling to said event, right.
(10:47):
So, like, how can you usedifferent things, like a common
experience or a common rolewhere you know a field marketer
is constantly traveling, thatsort of thing?
Or how can you relate a gift tothe message that you're trying
to, you know, convey?
So, for example, if we'retrying to expand that sphere of
influence, you wanted to plantthe idea of connecting and find
time to dig into your XYZstrategy with this person that
you know, right.
Like all of those things, Ithink, really help to create a
(11:09):
more personalized experience atscale.
Kevin Kerner (11:11):
If you and I think for many people that haven't
done it before, it's it's andthis is what's so great about
working with the Centosocuration team is they're really
good at like coming up with theuse cases.
But I think for marketing, formarketers, just getting started
it's a little daunting, like youjust don't know where to start.
What's the what's a simplefirst step that a marketer can
take tomorrow to get this typeof stuff going.
Katie Penner (11:32):
Yeah, so that's a great question.
So we have actually, you know,compiled all of this kind of
brain bank of gifting ideas anddifferent you know triggers and
stages and whatnot.
So if you are curious about howyou can implement triggered
gifting into your strategy withthe tools that you have today,
visit Sendosocom slash playbooks.
We have created playbooks forall of our different
(11:53):
integrations, with actualdifferent plays that you can run
with the copy that we have seenour customers have success with
.
It is all public.
It is not gated at all.
You can check that out.
I think it's a really awesomeresource for everyone that's
curious about it.
Kevin Kerner (12:07):
So you're in Sender Relations.
You see all these.
You see a lot of these things.
What's your, what are yourfavorite parts of the playbook,
Like?
What are the ones that you likethe best?
Katie Penner (12:14):
Oh gosh, I think my personal favorite has to be
especially with my businessdevelopment backgrounds and
owning a BDR team now, I lovefinding creative ways to break
through the inbox.
Top of funnel that is mypassion.
I think it is so fun to makepeople feel cared about in such
a non-personalized B2B worldthat we're experiencing right
(12:35):
now.
So everything top of funnel isdefinitely like.
Meeting setters are my personalfavorite.
Kevin Kerner (12:42):
It's just like a it's a great door opener.
Katie Penner (12:44):
Right, well, and it sets a tone right.
It sets a tone for higherrelationship moving forward and
it really gives you an advantageabove your competitors because
you were the one that, upfront,not just cared and wanted to
solve for the you know businessissues that they are having
today, but also cared for themas a human being, which I think
so many people are missing today.
Kevin Kerner (13:06):
I want to talk about the future a little.
What do you think that thefuture looks like for gifting
over the next couple of years,especially with AI?
Katie Penner (13:12):
My gosh.
I mean, the possibilities arepretty endless, right.
I think that AI and our toolwill start to, you know,
recognize you can upload a listand then perhaps it'll recognize
what stage these people are at,what their titles are,
automatically.
You know, surface playbooks forthese people.
I think that clay and toolslike that I mean there's
(13:33):
probably already the possibilityto pull in people's addresses
and to automatically have thingsland at their houses without
the need for addressconfirmation information.
Yeah, I think that those arelike the biggest kind of
probably near term things withwith gifting is curated
playbooks at the tip of yourfingers with, you know,
anticipated ROI right in frontof you before you even launch
(13:54):
the campaign based on thesuccess that you've seen, I
think is probably going to bethe biggest thing that I'm
looking forward to.
Kevin Kerner (13:59):
I'm really excited about the use of agents and all
this stuff and the ability forthe AI to go out and figure
stuff out.
It's like, hey, this person hasan opportunity for gifting and
then the agent goes out, figuresout the gift.
Katie Penner (14:10):
Saying like, hey, this AE hasn't talked to this
account in X days.
At this stage we need totrigger a gift and have it land
tomorrow.
Here's what we suggest.
That would be awesome Because Ithink, just like marketers,
sellers are also being boggeddown.
They're smaller teams.
They're dealing with, you know,more deals.
I mean, I certainly know thatwe're dealing with that.
We have a smaller team.
(14:31):
So having those signalstriggered to them, right, and
those alerts saying like, hey,this is kind of, you know, going
uncontacted, let's make surethat we don't drop the ball on
this one.
And let's let's reengage with athoughtful gift and, you know,
pulling transcripts from Gong,that you know surface interest
and things like that and remindthem of those things.
(14:52):
There's just really coolpossibilities for this product
and for gifting in general.
So really, really excited wherethe world of AI and you know,
kind of infusing that with humanfirst takes us.
Kevin Kerner (15:00):
Yeah, love it.
Okay.
I just want to ask you threewrap up questions here that I
ask on just about all of these.
So what's one marketing trendyou're most excited about?
Oh goodness.
Katie Penner (15:09):
I think, obviously the trend of marketers looking
into human-first gifting and howthey can humanize their
marketing and better connectwith their audience.
I think that's really exciting,obviously for personal reasons,
but also because I just thinkit's the right way to market, so
I'd have to say the shifttowards human-first marketing.
Kevin Kerner (15:27):
What's one outdated marketing tactic.
People should stop using Gosh.
That's a toughie.
Katie Penner (15:32):
There's a lot, I feel like gating.
I feel like is kind of gatedtoday.
There was a world back a fewyears ago where we would gate
every single resource that wehad, and we're realizing today
that you close is the way to goright.
We've learned over the pastyear or two years that sharing
(16:00):
information and educationpublicly is the way to build
trust within a community.
So I would definitely saygating is way outdated in my
opinion.
Kevin Kerner (16:08):
And then you're quite active on LinkedIn and you
know I follow you for thoughtleadership and those type of
things.
But who do you follow?
Who would you suggest peoplefollow for thought leadership,
inspiration, just new tactics,gosh great question.
Katie Penner (16:20):
So one of my favorites from early on in my
career this was someone thatmentored me back when I was in
SDR and really helped push me tobecome a better leader, a
better person, a better publicspeaker was Jen Allen Knuth.
She is fantastic.
I would also suggest followingCasey Jenkins.
She just and I know that thatsounds self-serving- yeah, she's
great.
She just started posting and shetruly has taken a non-marketer
(16:44):
and infused, I think, in me whatis most important about
marketing.
We have a tiny, tiny marketingteam, but we punch way above our
weight class, and Casey is theone who was brilliantly sharing
that online.
She deserves far more followersthan I, so please go follow her
.
She is awesome.
Kevin Kerner (16:59):
Yeah, I think I think, with the small team that
you guys have and what you pulloff, it's, it's really
incredible and you guys aresuper active.
The severance thing, by the way, is really awesome.
Yeah, I know that's getting alot of play, but it's really
cool what you guys put together.
Katie Penner (17:10):
Yeah.
So that was.
That was really fun.
We we started these kinds ofcampaigns actually with inspo
from B2C.
So it started around theholiday time when we did our elf
campaign.
And I am my favorite brand inthe world when it comes to
marketing efforts and differentcool things that they do is
Chewycom.
I'm really just impressed withthe whole brand story of Chewy
(17:33):
and you know how, what they camefrom, who they are now, but
anyways, chewy does this thingevery year called Chewy Clause,
where you can submit your dogonline, you can write a note to
Santa and Chewy will randomlysend gifts out to dogs.
And so I went to Casey and Iwas like, hey, we should do this
, but for B2B marketers to finda way to do that, yeah.
(17:53):
And so we were able to takethat kind of blueprint from the
Sindoso elves campaign andduplicate it, edit it a little
bit into what is now today, theseverance campaign.
So you know we didn't have toreinvent the wheel.
We were able to go live with itin just one and a half weeks,
but the elves campaign isalready millions in pipeline.
(18:13):
So I mean it's just goes toshow that like doing these human
first things, focusing onpeople's feelings relating to
them will end up in the rightplace.
Kevin Kerner (18:20):
So that pattern interrupt is great, because
those are pattern interruptcampaigns too.
You don't.
You just don't expect them.
Katie Penner (18:25):
I love that.
I love that you bring that up,because one of the things that I
do and then I'll stop but oneof the things that I do is I
keep a bank of all of the thingsthat I see in everyday life
that inspire me and I put theminto a chat GBT of marketing
inspo and then, anytime I needcreative ideas, I say take all
of this that I've fed you andgive me ideas similar to this
(18:46):
for Sendoso, and it's a reallycool way to get some inspo based
on what has inspired you inreal life.
Kevin Kerner (18:53):
So I at least- Well, this has been great, Katie
.
I know people want to connectwith you more.
I know you have an activeLinkedIn channel, but how do
people get a hold of you if theywant to contact you?
Katie Penner (19:02):
Yeah, so LinkedIn is going to be the best way.
For sure, search up KatiePenner.
You can't miss me.
There's a big, you know giftingbox right by my name, so
definitely connect with me there.
If you have any questions aboutgifting, want to learn more,
want to hop on a call, email meat katiepenner at Sendosacom.
Kevin Kerner (19:17):
That's great.
Thanks so much, Katie.
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