May 18, 2025 • 26 mins
Trauma changes us in profound ways, forcing our true selves into hiding while protective mechanisms take over. In this powerful second installment of our "Healing the Shame that Binds You" series, Dr. Chris explores the automatic defense mechanisms that emerge when we face severe threats, particularly sexual and physical abuse.
Drawing from John Bradshaw's groundbreaking work, this episode delves into two critical defense mechanisms: disassociation and the development of a false self. When trauma becomes unbearable, disassociation allows victims to mentally "leave" during the experience—a lifesaving but costly survival strategy. Meanwhile, toxic shame forces us to hide our authentic selves behind carefully constructed masks, creating false personas to protect our vulnerable inner child.
Through beautiful recitations of Paul Laurence Dunbar's poems "We Wear the Mask" and "Sympathy," Dr. Chris illuminates the profound pain of hiding one's true nature and the universal longing for authenticity. She shares personal experiences of witnessing violence as a child and how disassociation protected her psyche from unbearable trauma, offering listeners a window into how these protective mechanisms function.
Most importantly, this episode charts a path toward healing. By bringing shame out of hiding in safe, non-judgmental environments, we begin to dismantle its power. Whether through therapy, support groups, or recovery programs, finding communities where we can authentically share our experiences is essential for reclaiming our true selves.
For teen mothers and those who became mothers in their teens, especially survivors of violence and abuse, understanding these defense mechanisms offers a crucial step toward emotional wellness.
Subscribe to our podcast, blog, follow us on social media @TeenMomsAnonymous, or visit teammomsaorg to connect with resources that can support your healing journey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Hi everyone, thanks for tuning in to our Teen Moms
Anonymous podcast.
We are a podcast for teen momsand adult mothers who were teen
moms, especially those whosurvived violence and abuse.
Our focus is on emotionalhealth and wellness, because we
know that emotionally healthymothers are better equipped to
nurture the emotionaldevelopment of their children.
(00:47):
I'm your host, Dr Chris Stroble, founder of Teen Moms Anonymous
, a ministry for teen moms andadult mothers who were, and the
award-winning author of HelpingTeen Moms Graduate Strategies
for Family, Schools andCommunity Organizations.
Today is part two of afive-part series entitled
Healing the Shame that Binds you.
(01:08):
Today I'm talking about twoautomatic, unconscious defense
mechanisms that kick in when weface a severe threat.
That is shaming, like sexualand physical violence.
As I mentioned in part one, JohnBradshaw notes that the most
shaming forms of abuse aresexual and then physical abuse.
(01:31):
He notes that all abuse andviolence are shaming.
Some kinds of abuse are moreintensely shaming than others.
Sexual abuse, he says, is themost shaming form of abuse.
He notes it takes less sexualabuse than any other form of
abuse to induce shame.
This induced shame feels like acut deep inside.
(01:53):
The person stops being theirreal, true self and a false,
frozen state of being emerges,whereby the person believes they
are flawed and defective as ahuman being.
Physical abuse, he says, issecond only to sexual violence
in toxic shame.
So sexual and physical violenceare the most shaming of all
(02:17):
abuse.
When we face a severe threatthat is shaming against sexual
and physical violence ourautomatic unconscious survival
mechanism kick in, and oneprimary defense survival
mechanism is disassociation.
A secondary ego defensemechanism is we stop being our
real, true self and take on afalse self.
(02:39):
Both automatic unconsciousdefense mechanisms are intended
to preserve our life when weface a severe threat that is
shaming, again like sexual andphysical violence.
So this is what I'm talkingabout today.
For today and this entire series, I'm referencing John
(03:01):
Bradshaw's groundbreaking andclassic recovery book Healing
the Shame that Binds you.
John Bradshaw, who died in 2016, was an American educator,
counselor, motivational speakerand author who hosted a number
of PBS television programs ontopics such as addiction
recovery, codependency andspirituality.
(03:22):
In this series, as with all ourshows, the content is for
informational purposes only.
If you feel you need to talk tosomeone, please consult a
medical doctor or licensedprofessional counselor.
If you are in an emergency,please dial 9-1-1 or go to your
nearest emergency room.
So let's get Just a quickreview of part one, where I
(03:47):
talked about the two types ofshame healthy shame versus toxic
shame.
Healthy shame is an emotion,it's a boundary, it's a yellow
warning that lets us know ourlimits, that we have and will
make mistakes and that we arenot God.
Healthy shame is nourishing.
It keeps us grounded.
(04:08):
Healthy shame transforms intotoxic shame when it is no longer
a healthy emotion but theintensely painful feeling or
experience believing that we areflawed and therefore unworthy
of love and belonging.
Something we've experienced,done or failed to do makes us
unworthy of connection.
(04:29):
That is toxic shame, and toxicshame is life-destroying.
Toxic shame first develops inthe family system by way of
three dynamics, and I talkedabout this in part one Growing
up with a shame-based parent,often our mother.
One Growing up with ashame-based parent, often our
mother.
Being abandoned by a parent andrepeated exposure to shaming
(04:51):
events like sexual and physicalviolence, the two most shaming
forms of abuse.
All three of these experiencesare shame-inducing and lead a
child to develop toxic shame.
In part one I talked about howtoxic shame is
multi-generational.
So if you are a shame-basedmother, your mother was likely a
shame-based mother.
(05:12):
Her mother was likelyshame-based.
Her mother's mother was likelya shame-based mother.
Toxic shame is passed down fromgeneration to generation and, as
Mark Woylnn says in hisNational Book Award winning book
, it didn't start with you.
This is inherited family trauma.
(05:32):
But, as I said in part one,while you inherited toxic shame,
this does not have to be thelegacy that you leave for your
children.
You can begin to interrupt thismulti-generational cycle of
toxic shame.
You must heal your own toxicshame first so you can nurture
the healthy emotionaldevelopment of your children.
(05:52):
This five-part series and allthat we do at Team Moms
Anonymous is to offer youresources, opportunities and
information to help you healyour toxic shame first.
So this is a brief recap ofpart one.
If you missed that episode,it's available on our podcast.
The concept of shame goes backto biblical times.
Consider Adam and Eve in thegarden.
(06:13):
Before they sinned, they hadhealthy shame.
Their shame was nourishing.
They knew their limits.
They knew God's boundaries andwhat he said.
You may eat fruit from thetrees of the garden, but you
must not eat fruit from the treethat is in the middle of the
garden, and you must not touchit or you will die.
(06:34):
Satan deceived and tricked themto push their limits, to cross
God's boundaries, and once theydid, they experienced toxic
shame.
This is illustrated in that,when God called Adam, where art
thou, Adam's first response wasto cover himself up and hide.
I heard thy voice in thegarden, and I was afraid,
(06:56):
because I was naked and I hidmyself.
That is what toxic shame does.
It causes us to want to hide,and just as Adam sought to cover
himself up, we as human beingsdo the same things.
We find ways to cover up ourtoxic shame, and today I'll
discuss one primary and onesecondary automatic, unconscious
(07:18):
defense mechanism to feelingtoxic shame, and they are one
disassociation and the otherdeveloping a false self.
A primary, automatic egodefense.
Bradshaw notes that Freud wasthe first to clearly define an
automatic process used forself-preservation which is
(07:40):
activated in the face of asevere threat, that is, shaming
against sexual and physicalviolence.
One primary defense mechanismis disassociation.
Bradshaw writes thatdisassociation is the ego
defense that accompanies themost violent forms of shaming
(08:00):
sexual and physical violence.
The trauma is so great and thefear so terrifying that one
needs instant relief.
Disassociation is a form ofinstant relief.
He notes that an incest victimsimply goes away during the
experience of violation like along daydream.
(08:21):
The same is true of physicalviolence.
The pain and humiliating shameare unbearable.
The victim leaves her body.
I know this disassociation froma real life experience and you
may too.
For me, I was five or six whenI witnessed severe domestic
violence and it was soterrifying and, as John Bradshaw
(08:45):
notes, so shaming that I toldmy therapist one day that it was
as if my psyche split.
And she said it did splitbecause that violence was
outside your window of toleranceand disassociating was your
primary self-preservationmechanism, is what actually kept
(09:06):
you alive and, as John Bradshawwrites, these automatic,
unconscious primary defensemechanisms were the best
decisions available to you atthe time and they kept you sane.
They literally saved your life.
That was how I survived in theface of a severe threat that was
(09:28):
so shaming physical violenceand what I experienced is truly
what John Bradshaw describes.
The victim leaves her body, andlet me reiterate this here in
listening to this information, Idefinitely don't want this to
be triggering, but if you feelthat you need to talk to someone
again, please consult a medicaldoctor or a licensed
(09:49):
professional counselor.
So disassociation is a primaryego defense mechanism, is
automatic and unconscious and itaccompanies the most violent
forms of shaming sexual andphysical violence and the trauma
is so great of shaming, sexualand physical violence and the
trauma is so great, the fear isso terrifying that one needs
(10:11):
instant relief.
Disassociation is a form ofinstant relief and numbing.
John Bradshaw talks about otherautomatic, unconscious primary
ego defenses.
If you want to learn more aboutthese primary ego defense
mechanisms, John Bradshaw's bookKilling the Shame that Binds
you is a great resource.
I would say that a lot ofrecovery classics like his book
(10:32):
and others.
They are not easy to digest.
I mean it's kind of like heavyreading.
You may need to read thesebooks in chunks, take a break
and go back and reread, but onceyou get it the content is very
helpful.
Taking on a false self Taking ona false self is another way we
hide and cover up our toxicshame.
(10:52):
Bradshaw notes that with toxicshame, because we experience
ourselves as flawed anddefective, we cannot look at
ourselves without pain.
Therefore we must create afalse self.
The false self is an automatic,unconscious second layer of
defense erected to alleviate, hesays, the felt sense of toxic
(11:17):
shame.
So disassociation is one typeof primary ego defense mechanism
.
Taking on a false self is asecondary ego defense,
preservation mechanism.
When we become a false self, whowe really are, our inner child,
who is alive, spontaneous andfree, this person goes into
(11:39):
hiding and develops a false self, a cover-up.
We begin to wear a mask to hidethe deep pain we feel inside
from believing that we areflawed.
And when I think about our real, true self going into hiding
and a false self emerging, Ithink of two poems, both by Paul
(11:59):
Laurence Dunbar we Wear theMask and Sympathy, and I'll read
each of these.
I'm going to give a briefcontext.
First, though, Paul LaurenceDunbar, born 1872 and died in
1906, was an American poet,novelist and short story writer
in the 19th and early 20thcenturies.
His parents were both enslavedin Kentucky prior to their being
(12:23):
emancipated.
Dunbar drew on their stories ofenslavement and plantation life
throughout his writing career.
His poem we Wear the Mask isabout racism.
It speaks to the hiddensuffering of Black people who
were forced to outwardly appearhappy and content, even while
(12:44):
experiencing deep pain andsuffering, in order to survive a
society where their truefeelings were not tolerated.
They could not be their real,true self.
If they express their real,true feelings, there would be
severe repercussions.
They would face severe andshaming sexual and physical
(13:06):
violence to put you back in yourplace.
So we Wear the Mask is abouthiding our real, true self and a
false self emerges.
I'm going to read that beautifulpoem here.
We wear the mask that grins andlies and hides our cheeks and
shades our eyes.
It hides our cheeks and shadesour eyes.
This debt we pay to human guileWith torn and bleeding hearts.
(13:29):
We smile and mouth with myriadsubtleties.
Why should the world beoverwise in counting our tears
and sighs?
Nay, let them only see us whilewe wear the mask.
(13:53):
We smile, but oh, great Christ,our cries to thee from tortured
souls arise.
We sing, but oh, the clay isvile beneath our feet and long
the mile.
But let the world dreamotherwise.
We wear the mask.
That's his poem.
We Wear the Mask about hidingour true, real self.
In his poem, Sympathy, Dunbar isusing an extended metaphor of a
(14:16):
miserable and defeated cagedbird to illustrate the plight of
African Americans who wereoppressed.
The theme is about the soul,murder of the human spirit and
not being able to be free, thepain and suffering of not being
able to be your real, true self.
(14:37):
So I'm going to read Sympathyby Paul Laurence Dunbar, I know
what the caged bird feels.
Alas, when the sun is bright onthe upland slopes, when the
wind stirs soft through thespringing grass and the river
flows like a stream of glass,when the first bird sings and
(14:59):
the first bud opes and the faintperfume from its chalice steals
and the faint perfume from itschalice stills, I know what the
caged bird feels.
I know why the caged bird beatshis wing till its blood is red
on the cruel bars, for he mustfly back to his perch and cling
when he fain would be on the bowa-swing and a pain still throbs
(15:25):
in the old, old scars and theypulse again with a keener sting.
I know why he beats his wing.
I know why the cage-bird singsah me, when his wing is bruised
and his bosom sore, when hebeats his bars and he would be
free.
It is not a carol of joy orglee be free.
(15:51):
It is not a carol of joy orglee, but a prayer that he sends
from his heart's deep, poor,but a plea that upward to heaven
he flings.
I know why the caged bird singsPaul Lawrence Dunbar.
So these are two poems thatillustrate how it feels when you
have to hide your real trueself and a false self emerges.
(16:12):
We wear the mask and, just likethe caged bird, we long to be
free.
So think about yourself.
Are you able to be your realtrue self or are you hiding your
real true self and a false selfhas emerged.
Cover up to survive and Ishared some data in part one
(16:34):
about the negative feelings thatmany teen mothers experience.
That data was from the NationalWomen's Law Center and they
have to cover up and hide those,their negative, their true
feelings, which can lead to afalse, codependent self.
So if you didn't listen to that, you may want to go back and
listen to part two just to hearthat information.
As a teen mother and adultmother who was a teen mother, if
(16:57):
you develop toxic shame, like Idid as a child, growing up with
a shame-based parent, nothaving a father and witnessing
severe violence and abuse, then,like me, you have brought if
you have not brought your shameout of hiding.
You're likely living a falseself.
Maybe you are wearing the maskand you are like that cage bird
(17:19):
who is longing to be free.
If so, that is hiding toxicshame, and these two poems are
to illustrate what it feels andlooks like to hide toxic shame
behind a false self.
So the false self is anautomatic, unconscious secondary
ego mechanism that protects uswhen we face a severe threat
(17:43):
that is shaming like sexual andphysical violence.
If you want to learn more aboutprimary and secondary defense
mechanism, John Bradshaw's bookHealing the Shame that Blinds
you is a great resource.
So we know all of this.
We know a primary ego defenseis a disassociation and taking
on a false self is an automatic,unconscious process used for
(18:07):
self-preservation, which isactivated in the face of a
severe threat and shaming likesexual and physical violence.
So how do we heal this shamethat is destroying our lives?
The first step is awareness,and you have just raised your
awareness by listening to thispodcast.
The next step is to bring shameout of hiding, expose it.
(18:29):
Pull the covers back, talkabout shame because there's one
program saying the only way outis through and another saying is
we are as sick as our secrets.
Coming out of hiding talkingabout shame.
Consider what shame andvulnerability research and
(18:51):
author Brene Brown says aboutshame.
Although shame feels isolating,everyone experiences it, with
the exception of severepsychopaths.
While no one wants to sharetheir insecurities, talking
about shame is the only way todiminish its power, because once
you know that you're not alone,shame loses its leverage.
(19:12):
Brown further contends that wecultivate enough awareness about
shame to name it and speak it.
We've basically cut it off atthe knees.
It loses its power over us.
It can no longer hold ushostage.
What is critical, however, intalking about shame is where and
(19:32):
to whom you expose your toxicshame, and John Bradshaw notes
that coming out of hiding isbest done in a non-shaming,
intimate network.
For Bradshaw, AlcoholicsAnonymous was his non-shaming,
intimate network that he creditswith saving his life.
For me, Celebrate Recovery wasa non-shaming, intimate network
(19:55):
that helped me heal a deep hurtand heal something I was very
angry about.
I went to that CelebrateRecovery 12-step group.
It was about eight months and Iso look forward to going.
I think it was on Tuesday.
Every Tuesday night.
It was a time for me to takecare of me, and when we started
there may have been about 30women in the group and by the
(20:17):
time we ended, eight monthslater, it was maybe about 12 of
us, but it was what I needed atthe time and it really helped me
heal a deep wound that I wasdealing with.
Also, my longtime therapist hasalso been a non-shaming, small,
intimate network for me toexpose and heal my hurts without
being shamed.
She definitely wouldn't shameme and I know a lot of people
(20:41):
are opposed to going to therapycenter therapists.
But I tell you I've been withmy long-time therapist for seven
or eight years and, wow, I havegrown so much in working with
her.
And she said to me maybe amonth ago she said you've done
well.
I mean, from who I was when Isat in her office the first time
, to seven or eight years later,I'm such a freer person I
(21:05):
understand myself so much better.
So, she, my long-time has beena non-shaming, intimate network.
Our Teen Moms Anonymous supportgroups are a non-shaming,
intimate network where teen momsand adult mothers who were teen
moms can talk about their shameand bring it out of hiding.
So this is how we heal thetoxic shame that is destroying
(21:26):
our lives bring it out of hiding, talk about it, expose it,
expose the secrets, but do so ina small, intimate network that
is non-shaming.
So, just to wrap things up, weall feel toxic shame, that
intensely painful feeling insidethat we are flawed and
therefore unworthy of love.
Toxic shame feels like a deepcut inside.
(21:50):
No one wants to talk about ourtoxic shame, so we find ways to
cover it up and hide it.
Hiding and covering up ourtoxic shame is making us sick
and it's destroying lives.
The concept of shame goes backto biblical times, with Adam and
Eve in the garden.
In the beginning they hadhealthy shame.
They knew their boundaries,their limits.
(22:11):
But when they crossed God'sboundaries they then experienced
toxic shame.
Adam's first response was tocover up and hide.
I also discussed today oneautomatic, unconscious primary
defense mechanism disassociation.
One automatic unconsciousprimary defense mechanism
disassociation and one automaticunconscious secondary defense
(22:32):
mechanism taking on a false self, where our real true self, our
inner child who is alive,spontaneous and free, goes into
hiding and we emerge as a falseself.
I've discussed or read the twopoems by Paul Laurence Dunbar,
beautiful poems.
We Wear the Mask and Sympathyto illustrate the pain and agony
(22:53):
of having to hide our real trueself and the longing to be who
we really are.
Another major cover-up thatJohn Bradshaw notes in his book
is acting shameless withoutshame.
He gives a lot of differentbehaviors that illustrate acting
shameless, like arrogance,perfectionism, several others
(23:14):
that I'll discuss in part three,and also in part three I will
discuss the 12-step model that'sused in Alcoholics Anonymous
and Celebrate Recovery to helppeople come out of hiding and
heal their toxic shame.
And that will be in part threeof this five-part episode.
So this is our show for today.
Thanks for listening to our TeenMoms Anonymous podcast.
(23:35):
We are a podcast for teen momsand adult mothers who were teen
moms, especially those whosurvived violence and abuse.
Our focus is on emotionalhealth and wellness, because we
know that emotionally healthymothers are better equipped to
nurture the emotionaldevelopment of their children.
I'm your host, Dr Chris Stroble, founder of Teen Moms Anonymous
(23:55):
, a ministry for teen moms andwomen who were, and the
award-winning author of HelpingTeen Moms Graduate Strategies
for Family, Schools andCommunity Organizations.
Help this information onautomatic and unconscious
primary and secondary defensemechanisms that kick in when we
face a severe threat that isshaming, like sexual and
(24:18):
physical violence.
I hope this information has beenhelpful to you.
If it has helped you, send us amessage.
We love to hear from listeners.
You can email us at info atteammomsaorg again info at
teammomsaorg or visit ourwebsite, teammomsaorg.
Fill out the contact form.
(24:40):
Also, if you have questions ortopics you'd like me to discuss,
send those to me and I willaddress as many as I can in
future shows.
Finally, we are committed towalking alongside you on your
journey of emotional health andwellness, so stay connected to
us.
Follow us on social mediaInstagram and Facebook at Team
(25:01):
Moms Anonymous.
Visit our website, teammomsaorg, and subscribe to our blog and
podcast.
If you are in the GreenvilleSpartanburg area of South
Carolina, we offer localin-person non-shaming support
groups where teen moms and adultmothers who were teen moms can
come out of hiding and expose,talk about and heal their toxic
(25:22):
shame.
We don't offer online supportgroups at this time.
I have had agencies frommultiple states contact me by
online support groups, but atthis time we don't have the
infrastructure to ensure thesafety of our members, so we
can't offer online supportgroups.
When we do have that capability, we'll let you know.
(25:43):
And again, just stay connectedto us.
So when we share thatinformation, you will know.
So again, stay connected to us.
So so when we share thatinformation, you will know.
So again, stay connected to uson social media and, as always,
thanks for listening to our teammom's anonymous podcast.
We'll see you the next time.
Hi everyone, thanks for tuning in to our Teen Moms
Anonymous podcast.
We are a podcast for teen momsand adult mothers who were teen
moms, especially those whosurvived violence and abuse.
Our focus is on emotionalhealth and wellness, because we
know that emotionally healthymothers are better equipped to
nurture the emotionaldevelopment of their children.
(00:47):
I'm your host, Dr Chris Stroble, founder of Teen Moms Anonymous
, a ministry for teen moms andadult mothers who were, and the
award-winning author of HelpingTeen Moms Graduate Strategies
for Family, Schools andCommunity Organizations.
Today is part two of afive-part series entitled
Healing the Shame that Binds you.
(01:08):
Today I'm talking about twoautomatic, unconscious defense
mechanisms that kick in when weface a severe threat.
That is shaming, like sexualand physical violence.
As I mentioned in part one, JohnBradshaw notes that the most
shaming forms of abuse aresexual and then physical abuse.
(01:31):
He notes that all abuse andviolence are shaming.
Some kinds of abuse are moreintensely shaming than others.
Sexual abuse, he says, is themost shaming form of abuse.
He notes it takes less sexualabuse than any other form of
abuse to induce shame.
This induced shame feels like acut deep inside.
(01:53):
The person stops being theirreal, true self and a false,
frozen state of being emerges,whereby the person believes they
are flawed and defective as ahuman being.
Physical abuse, he says, issecond only to sexual violence
in toxic shame.
So sexual and physical violenceare the most shaming of all
(02:17):
abuse.
When we face a severe threatthat is shaming against sexual
and physical violence ourautomatic unconscious survival
mechanism kick in, and oneprimary defense survival
mechanism is disassociation.
A secondary ego defensemechanism is we stop being our
real, true self and take on afalse self.
(02:39):
Both automatic unconsciousdefense mechanisms are intended
to preserve our life when weface a severe threat that is
shaming, again like sexual andphysical violence.
So this is what I'm talkingabout today.
For today and this entire series, I'm referencing John
(03:01):
Bradshaw's groundbreaking andclassic recovery book Healing
the Shame that Binds you.
John Bradshaw, who died in 2016, was an American educator,
counselor, motivational speakerand author who hosted a number
of PBS television programs ontopics such as addiction
recovery, codependency andspirituality.
(03:22):
In this series, as with all ourshows, the content is for
informational purposes only.
If you feel you need to talk tosomeone, please consult a
medical doctor or licensedprofessional counselor.
If you are in an emergency,please dial 9-1-1 or go to your
nearest emergency room.
So let's get Just a quickreview of part one, where I
(03:47):
talked about the two types ofshame healthy shame versus toxic
shame.
Healthy shame is an emotion,it's a boundary, it's a yellow
warning that lets us know ourlimits, that we have and will
make mistakes and that we arenot God.
Healthy shame is nourishing.
It keeps us grounded.
(04:08):
Healthy shame transforms intotoxic shame when it is no longer
a healthy emotion but theintensely painful feeling or
experience believing that we areflawed and therefore unworthy
of love and belonging.
Something we've experienced,done or failed to do makes us
unworthy of connection.
(04:29):
That is toxic shame, and toxicshame is life-destroying.
Toxic shame first develops inthe family system by way of
three dynamics, and I talkedabout this in part one Growing
up with a shame-based parent,often our mother.
One Growing up with ashame-based parent, often our
mother.
Being abandoned by a parent andrepeated exposure to shaming
(04:51):
events like sexual and physicalviolence, the two most shaming
forms of abuse.
All three of these experiencesare shame-inducing and lead a
child to develop toxic shame.
In part one I talked about howtoxic shame is
multi-generational.
So if you are a shame-basedmother, your mother was likely a
shame-based mother.
(05:12):
Her mother was likelyshame-based.
Her mother's mother was likelya shame-based mother.
Toxic shame is passed down fromgeneration to generation and, as
Mark Woylnn says in hisNational Book Award winning book
, it didn't start with you.
This is inherited family trauma.
(05:32):
But, as I said in part one,while you inherited toxic shame,
this does not have to be thelegacy that you leave for your
children.
You can begin to interrupt thismulti-generational cycle of
toxic shame.
You must heal your own toxicshame first so you can nurture
the healthy emotionaldevelopment of your children.
(05:52):
This five-part series and allthat we do at Team Moms
Anonymous is to offer youresources, opportunities and
information to help you healyour toxic shame first.
So this is a brief recap ofpart one.
If you missed that episode,it's available on our podcast.
The concept of shame goes backto biblical times.
Consider Adam and Eve in thegarden.
(06:13):
Before they sinned, they hadhealthy shame.
Their shame was nourishing.
They knew their limits.
They knew God's boundaries andwhat he said.
You may eat fruit from thetrees of the garden, but you
must not eat fruit from the treethat is in the middle of the
garden, and you must not touchit or you will die.
(06:34):
Satan deceived and tricked themto push their limits, to cross
God's boundaries, and once theydid, they experienced toxic
shame.
This is illustrated in that,when God called Adam, where art
thou, Adam's first response wasto cover himself up and hide.
I heard thy voice in thegarden, and I was afraid,
(06:56):
because I was naked and I hidmyself.
That is what toxic shame does.
It causes us to want to hide,and just as Adam sought to cover
himself up, we as human beingsdo the same things.
We find ways to cover up ourtoxic shame, and today I'll
discuss one primary and onesecondary automatic, unconscious
(07:18):
defense mechanism to feelingtoxic shame, and they are one
disassociation and the otherdeveloping a false self.
A primary, automatic egodefense.
Bradshaw notes that Freud wasthe first to clearly define an
automatic process used forself-preservation which is
(07:40):
activated in the face of asevere threat, that is, shaming
against sexual and physicalviolence.
One primary defense mechanismis disassociation.
Bradshaw writes thatdisassociation is the ego
defense that accompanies themost violent forms of shaming
(08:00):
sexual and physical violence.
The trauma is so great and thefear so terrifying that one
needs instant relief.
Disassociation is a form ofinstant relief.
He notes that an incest victimsimply goes away during the
experience of violation like along daydream.
(08:21):
The same is true of physicalviolence.
The pain and humiliating shameare unbearable.
The victim leaves her body.
I know this disassociation froma real life experience and you
may too.
For me, I was five or six whenI witnessed severe domestic
violence and it was soterrifying and, as John Bradshaw
(08:45):
notes, so shaming that I toldmy therapist one day that it was
as if my psyche split.
And she said it did splitbecause that violence was
outside your window of toleranceand disassociating was your
primary self-preservationmechanism, is what actually kept
(09:06):
you alive and, as John Bradshawwrites, these automatic,
unconscious primary defensemechanisms were the best
decisions available to you atthe time and they kept you sane.
They literally saved your life.
That was how I survived in theface of a severe threat that was
(09:28):
so shaming physical violenceand what I experienced is truly
what John Bradshaw describes.
The victim leaves her body, andlet me reiterate this here in
listening to this information, Idefinitely don't want this to
be triggering, but if you feelthat you need to talk to someone
again, please consult a medicaldoctor or a licensed
(09:49):
professional counselor.
So disassociation is a primaryego defense mechanism, is
automatic and unconscious and itaccompanies the most violent
forms of shaming sexual andphysical violence and the trauma
is so great of shaming, sexualand physical violence and the
trauma is so great, the fear isso terrifying that one needs
(10:11):
instant relief.
Disassociation is a form ofinstant relief and numbing.
John Bradshaw talks about otherautomatic, unconscious primary
ego defenses.
If you want to learn more aboutthese primary ego defense
mechanisms, John Bradshaw's bookKilling the Shame that Binds
you is a great resource.
I would say that a lot ofrecovery classics like his book
(10:32):
and others.
They are not easy to digest.
I mean it's kind of like heavyreading.
You may need to read thesebooks in chunks, take a break
and go back and reread, but onceyou get it the content is very
helpful.
Taking on a false self Taking ona false self is another way we
hide and cover up our toxicshame.
(10:52):
Bradshaw notes that with toxicshame, because we experience
ourselves as flawed anddefective, we cannot look at
ourselves without pain.
Therefore we must create afalse self.
The false self is an automatic,unconscious second layer of
defense erected to alleviate, hesays, the felt sense of toxic
(11:17):
shame.
So disassociation is one typeof primary ego defense mechanism
.
Taking on a false self is asecondary ego defense,
preservation mechanism.
When we become a false self, whowe really are, our inner child,
who is alive, spontaneous andfree, this person goes into
(11:39):
hiding and develops a false self, a cover-up.
We begin to wear a mask to hidethe deep pain we feel inside
from believing that we areflawed.
And when I think about our real, true self going into hiding
and a false self emerging, Ithink of two poems, both by Paul
(11:59):
Laurence Dunbar we Wear theMask and Sympathy, and I'll read
each of these.
I'm going to give a briefcontext.
First, though, Paul LaurenceDunbar, born 1872 and died in
1906, was an American poet,novelist and short story writer
in the 19th and early 20thcenturies.
His parents were both enslavedin Kentucky prior to their being
(12:23):
emancipated.
Dunbar drew on their stories ofenslavement and plantation life
throughout his writing career.
His poem we Wear the Mask isabout racism.
It speaks to the hiddensuffering of Black people who
were forced to outwardly appearhappy and content, even while
(12:44):
experiencing deep pain andsuffering, in order to survive a
society where their truefeelings were not tolerated.
They could not be their real,true self.
If they express their real,true feelings, there would be
severe repercussions.
They would face severe andshaming sexual and physical
(13:06):
violence to put you back in yourplace.
So we Wear the Mask is abouthiding our real, true self and a
false self emerges.
I'm going to read that beautifulpoem here.
We wear the mask that grins andlies and hides our cheeks and
shades our eyes.
It hides our cheeks and shadesour eyes.
This debt we pay to human guileWith torn and bleeding hearts.
(13:29):
We smile and mouth with myriadsubtleties.
Why should the world beoverwise in counting our tears
and sighs?
Nay, let them only see us whilewe wear the mask.
(13:53):
We smile, but oh, great Christ,our cries to thee from tortured
souls arise.
We sing, but oh, the clay isvile beneath our feet and long
the mile.
But let the world dreamotherwise.
We wear the mask.
That's his poem.
We Wear the Mask about hidingour true, real self.
In his poem, Sympathy, Dunbar isusing an extended metaphor of a
(14:16):
miserable and defeated cagedbird to illustrate the plight of
African Americans who wereoppressed.
The theme is about the soul,murder of the human spirit and
not being able to be free, thepain and suffering of not being
able to be your real, true self.
(14:37):
So I'm going to read Sympathyby Paul Laurence Dunbar, I know
what the caged bird feels.
Alas, when the sun is bright onthe upland slopes, when the
wind stirs soft through thespringing grass and the river
flows like a stream of glass,when the first bird sings and
(14:59):
the first bud opes and the faintperfume from its chalice steals
and the faint perfume from itschalice stills, I know what the
caged bird feels.
I know why the caged bird beatshis wing till its blood is red
on the cruel bars, for he mustfly back to his perch and cling
when he fain would be on the bowa-swing and a pain still throbs
(15:25):
in the old, old scars and theypulse again with a keener sting.
I know why he beats his wing.
I know why the cage-bird singsah me, when his wing is bruised
and his bosom sore, when hebeats his bars and he would be
free.
It is not a carol of joy orglee be free.
(15:51):
It is not a carol of joy orglee, but a prayer that he sends
from his heart's deep, poor,but a plea that upward to heaven
he flings.
I know why the caged bird singsPaul Lawrence Dunbar.
So these are two poems thatillustrate how it feels when you
have to hide your real trueself and a false self emerges.
(16:12):
We wear the mask and, just likethe caged bird, we long to be
free.
So think about yourself.
Are you able to be your realtrue self or are you hiding your
real true self and a false selfhas emerged.
Cover up to survive and Ishared some data in part one
(16:34):
about the negative feelings thatmany teen mothers experience.
That data was from the NationalWomen's Law Center and they
have to cover up and hide those,their negative, their true
feelings, which can lead to afalse, codependent self.
So if you didn't listen to that, you may want to go back and
listen to part two just to hearthat information.
As a teen mother and adultmother who was a teen mother, if
(16:57):
you develop toxic shame, like Idid as a child, growing up with
a shame-based parent, nothaving a father and witnessing
severe violence and abuse, then,like me, you have brought if
you have not brought your shameout of hiding.
You're likely living a falseself.
Maybe you are wearing the maskand you are like that cage bird
(17:19):
who is longing to be free.
If so, that is hiding toxicshame, and these two poems are
to illustrate what it feels andlooks like to hide toxic shame
behind a false self.
So the false self is anautomatic, unconscious secondary
ego mechanism that protects uswhen we face a severe threat
(17:43):
that is shaming like sexual andphysical violence.
If you want to learn more aboutprimary and secondary defense
mechanism, John Bradshaw's bookHealing the Shame that Blinds
you is a great resource.
So we know all of this.
We know a primary ego defenseis a disassociation and taking
on a false self is an automatic,unconscious process used for
(18:07):
self-preservation, which isactivated in the face of a
severe threat and shaming likesexual and physical violence.
So how do we heal this shamethat is destroying our lives?
The first step is awareness,and you have just raised your
awareness by listening to thispodcast.
The next step is to bring shameout of hiding, expose it.
(18:29):
Pull the covers back, talkabout shame because there's one
program saying the only way outis through and another saying is
we are as sick as our secrets.
Coming out of hiding talkingabout shame.
Consider what shame andvulnerability research and
(18:51):
author Brene Brown says aboutshame.
Although shame feels isolating,everyone experiences it, with
the exception of severepsychopaths.
While no one wants to sharetheir insecurities, talking
about shame is the only way todiminish its power, because once
you know that you're not alone,shame loses its leverage.
(19:12):
Brown further contends that wecultivate enough awareness about
shame to name it and speak it.
We've basically cut it off atthe knees.
It loses its power over us.
It can no longer hold ushostage.
What is critical, however, intalking about shame is where and
(19:32):
to whom you expose your toxicshame, and John Bradshaw notes
that coming out of hiding isbest done in a non-shaming,
intimate network.
For Bradshaw, AlcoholicsAnonymous was his non-shaming,
intimate network that he creditswith saving his life.
For me, Celebrate Recovery wasa non-shaming, intimate network
(19:55):
that helped me heal a deep hurtand heal something I was very
angry about.
I went to that CelebrateRecovery 12-step group.
It was about eight months and Iso look forward to going.
I think it was on Tuesday.
Every Tuesday night.
It was a time for me to takecare of me, and when we started
there may have been about 30women in the group and by the
(20:17):
time we ended, eight monthslater, it was maybe about 12 of
us, but it was what I needed atthe time and it really helped me
heal a deep wound that I wasdealing with.
Also, my longtime therapist hasalso been a non-shaming, small,
intimate network for me toexpose and heal my hurts without
being shamed.
She definitely wouldn't shameme and I know a lot of people
(20:41):
are opposed to going to therapycenter therapists.
But I tell you I've been withmy long-time therapist for seven
or eight years and, wow, I havegrown so much in working with
her.
And she said to me maybe amonth ago she said you've done
well.
I mean, from who I was when Isat in her office the first time
, to seven or eight years later,I'm such a freer person I
(21:05):
understand myself so much better.
So, she, my long-time has beena non-shaming, intimate network.
Our Teen Moms Anonymous supportgroups are a non-shaming,
intimate network where teen momsand adult mothers who were teen
moms can talk about their shameand bring it out of hiding.
So this is how we heal thetoxic shame that is destroying
(21:26):
our lives bring it out of hiding, talk about it, expose it,
expose the secrets, but do so ina small, intimate network that
is non-shaming.
So, just to wrap things up, weall feel toxic shame, that
intensely painful feeling insidethat we are flawed and
therefore unworthy of love.
Toxic shame feels like a deepcut inside.
(21:50):
No one wants to talk about ourtoxic shame, so we find ways to
cover it up and hide it.
Hiding and covering up ourtoxic shame is making us sick
and it's destroying lives.
The concept of shame goes backto biblical times, with Adam and
Eve in the garden.
In the beginning they hadhealthy shame.
They knew their boundaries,their limits.
(22:11):
But when they crossed God'sboundaries they then experienced
toxic shame.
Adam's first response was tocover up and hide.
I also discussed today oneautomatic, unconscious primary
defense mechanism disassociation.
One automatic unconsciousprimary defense mechanism
disassociation and one automaticunconscious secondary defense
(22:32):
mechanism taking on a false self, where our real true self, our
inner child who is alive,spontaneous and free, goes into
hiding and we emerge as a falseself.
I've discussed or read the twopoems by Paul Laurence Dunbar,
beautiful poems.
We Wear the Mask and Sympathyto illustrate the pain and agony
(22:53):
of having to hide our real trueself and the longing to be who
we really are.
Another major cover-up thatJohn Bradshaw notes in his book
is acting shameless withoutshame.
He gives a lot of differentbehaviors that illustrate acting
shameless, like arrogance,perfectionism, several others
(23:14):
that I'll discuss in part three,and also in part three I will
discuss the 12-step model that'sused in Alcoholics Anonymous
and Celebrate Recovery to helppeople come out of hiding and
heal their toxic shame.
And that will be in part threeof this five-part episode.
So this is our show for today.
Thanks for listening to our TeenMoms Anonymous podcast.
(23:35):
We are a podcast for teen momsand adult mothers who were teen
moms, especially those whosurvived violence and abuse.
Our focus is on emotionalhealth and wellness, because we
know that emotionally healthymothers are better equipped to
nurture the emotionaldevelopment of their children.
I'm your host, Dr Chris Stroble, founder of Teen Moms Anonymous
(23:55):
, a ministry for teen moms andwomen who were, and the
award-winning author of HelpingTeen Moms Graduate Strategies
for Family, Schools andCommunity Organizations.
Help this information onautomatic and unconscious
primary and secondary defensemechanisms that kick in when we
face a severe threat that isshaming, like sexual and
(24:18):
physical violence.
I hope this information has beenhelpful to you.
If it has helped you, send us amessage.
We love to hear from listeners.
You can email us at info atteammomsaorg again info at
teammomsaorg or visit ourwebsite, teammomsaorg.
Fill out the contact form.
(24:40):
Also, if you have questions ortopics you'd like me to discuss,
send those to me and I willaddress as many as I can in
future shows.
Finally, we are committed towalking alongside you on your
journey of emotional health andwellness, so stay connected to
us.
Follow us on social mediaInstagram and Facebook at Team
(25:01):
Moms Anonymous.
Visit our website, teammomsaorg, and subscribe to our blog and
podcast.
If you are in the GreenvilleSpartanburg area of South
Carolina, we offer localin-person non-shaming support
groups where teen moms and adultmothers who were teen moms can
come out of hiding and expose,talk about and heal their toxic
(25:22):
shame.
We don't offer online supportgroups at this time.
I have had agencies frommultiple states contact me by
online support groups, but atthis time we don't have the
infrastructure to ensure thesafety of our members, so we
can't offer online supportgroups.
When we do have that capability, we'll let you know.
(25:43):
And again, just stay connectedto us.
So when we share thatinformation, you will know.
So again, stay connected to us.
So so when we share thatinformation, you will know.
So again, stay connected to uson social media and, as always,
thanks for listening to our teammom's anonymous podcast.
We'll see you the next time.
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