Episode 1: Building Resilience: The Dailey Approach to Fitness, Family, and the Future

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Daily Edge, where we bring you the
latest insights, opinions andthought-provoking conversations
to give you that competitiveedge in life, business and
beyond.
Let's go Well, everyone.
Welcome to the Daily Edge.
I'm here with my brothers TJDaly, todd Daly and this is

(00:29):
episode one.
So we've wanted to do this forquite some time, wanted to get
together and talk about severalthings.
We've got a lot going on here.
I think we're going to startoff with 2025 goals,
particularly in the fitnessrealm.
I have two sub three-hourmarathoners sitting next to me,

(00:50):
and so we've got a lot ofexperience in fitness, health
and nutrition.
So why don't we just start offby you guys giving us a little
bit of history about yourjourney and maybe some of your
fitness goals for 2025.
?

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Why don't you go first?
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Should be quicker.
I would say my fitness journeystarted in 2012.
I sent TJ a text and I'vealways wanted to do a marathon
and I sent him a text and askedhim if he would do it with me.
He had done one in 2007, right,so seven.
You had done Seattle and Ithink you were out of shape from
that and he said let's go.

(01:33):
So I think that was in Februaryor March, I feel like.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
March, I think, you sent me the text and I started
training in May.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, and so I did the marathon.
And then TJ and I did that inNovember, the monumental.
And.
And then, shortly after you,Trent, you said, well, I, you
know, I want to do a marathon.
And TJ was like well, we allthree got to do it together.
So we did another one same one,that following year, right 2013

(02:03):
.
You were talking about beingone and done there.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, oh, I was one, and done.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
I didn't train for six months.
It's like you ever see thatGoodwill commercial where it's
like a running thing.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
The treadmills that got the hangers on it.
Yes, oh yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
That was totally me.
And then, unfortunately, I hadto start training again in I
don't know May or June.
And we did another marathon,the one where Trent wanted to
walk.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, I remember that , the very end.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
I am third.
Literally what I remember aboutthat is I remember watching you
guys cross the finish line andat that time I had Roman, I had
one kid and I was like it wasalmost like a scene out of Rudy.
I was like tearing upEverybody's like cheering on,
and I'm like it was almost likea scene out of Rudy.
I was like tearing upEverybody's like cheering on and
I'm like I'll never be able todo this and I was like kind of
that proud moment you guys hadaccomplished something.

(02:51):
You broke four hours, I think,on your first one.
So it was just cool watchingyou guys come across the finish
line.
And then TJ, later that nextyear he decided to do a 100
miler and once I saw that I justit's like if he can run 100, I
can run 26.
So the competitive brotherspirit came out and I think

(03:15):
that's where I decided to giveit a shot.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Well, that had to be weird for you because you were
always the like there had to bean element of that
competitiveness, even seeing uscross the line, I would think,
because you were always thestellar athlete, like, like you
know, head and shoulders aboveus when it came to traditional
ball sports, like basketball andthings like that.
So you know that had to be aninteresting thing.
Um, and when I get to myjourney, that played in I think

(03:38):
you guys have heard me tell thatstory before, but that had to
be kind of interesting from yourperspective yeah, I was used to
being one of the better uh,especially cause me, and you are
only two years apart.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
So when we competed, um, as as kids, that that was
the case.
Now that's Todd came up, I mean, we were so far apart with that
gap we didn't probably competeas much Um, but yeah it, uh, uh,
luckily these days, uh, I can,I can settle in being being the
third, the third fastest in thefamily, but definitely was a

(04:10):
dynamic that, um, uh, there,there at first, you know, and
then when we started trainingfor the three-hour marathon, was
kind of the other thing thathow fast are we capable of
running, and that that's been aobviously a goal.
That, uh, you two have bothcrossed over, which I know is a
pretty big uh, you two are bothcrossed over, which I know is a
pretty big milestone as well.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
You shouldn't ride three wheelers.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah, that's, you had it.
Yeah, it's.
Possible.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
You know, I think one of the things to kind of talk
about as you continue tellingyour story is you're one of the
first people you know there'sthis big wave right now in
fitness of being this balancedathlete, and so you have new
things like high rocks, right,which is a lot of lifting and a
lot of running.
So you're doing a workoutcircuit and you're running a
kilometer and there's a CrossFit, obviously, which is a little
more on the strength side thanhigh rocks is.

(04:54):
But you were one of the firstpeople you know we're talking.
When did you start OrangeTheory?

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I want to say it was in the fall of 17.
It was shortly after they hadopened.
I had started that and that'scertainly been a huge part of my
journey.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
So I think it's worth .
Obviously, orange Theory hasgrown and boutique fitness has
grown substantially over thelast seven or eight years and is
really kind of still leadingthe way, I think, in terms of
fitness journeys for people.
That's normally where theystart, but you had a pretty
significant impact in OrangeTheory in your local community

(05:31):
and I think that's important tokind of call out.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
I don't want to put you on the spot, but I think I'm
going to Well, I think you werethere for one of those, so I'll
let you get into that a littlebit.
I was just going to kind ofknow my journey after that
second marathon.
Then we decided to run a halfand then you never quite got
away from it.
Um, I don't think I ran anothermarathon for several years

(05:53):
actually after that, but, uh,then halves and 10 Ks and five
Ks are very digestible and, um,you know, it was fun to run a
little bit faster and neverquite got away from it.
Yeah, I want to 16 or 2016 or17.
I started an orange theory andit was just for me.
It was a fantastic community, alot of great people that I'm

(06:14):
still very close with, andcertainly other elements of
fitness that I felt like even tothis day.
You know, I can run 50 miles aweek but I don't quite feel as
strong.
Just in general and balanced,uh, unless I'm doing orange
theory, there's just the corework, um, the rower, the, the
weight floor, um, and it wassomething.

(06:36):
There's a little bit ofcompetitiveness to it too.
I mean, I think we're all kindof oriented to that a little bit
and so, um, you know, I'vereally, really enjoyed that part
of it.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Well, I will say yes, I was, cause they do have those
of you who do orange theoryfitness.
They do have the dry try andturn it into a competition where
people from the local studioget together and they see how
fast they can complete that.
And then in Indianaspecifically and I know it's
done different in differentareas of the country, but they
do regionals and they do a statechampionship, which you've won

(07:05):
twice.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
One state once I've won the dry try a few times in
Carmel.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Okay, so state once, state once.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, we did.
They did in 2019.
I don't think they did it againuntil 23.
Cause, obviously, fall of 2019was when I had won it.
And then COVID here's what'sinteresting about that, just
from a fitness perspective.
I growing up, I think for me,and just the dynamic of our

(07:36):
family and the way thingsoperated I was very much
searching to be the mosttalented.
I found when we were younger,for better or worse, there was a
lot of oh, you're so smart oryou've got a lot of natural
ability and that sort of thing,and so I found myself orienting
just to that.
I didn't really care what levelI got to, but I, for whatever
reason, I just tried to me tonot do any studying and get an A

(07:56):
minus than to like completelyput my best effort forward and
get an A, and so it wasinteresting.
I bring that just to circlethis back to that state
championship.
For the first time, about acouple months before that, I

(08:19):
actually started to prepare.
It was like the first time.
That was a really hard thingfor me to do, because the more
you prepare and put intosomething, the more vulnerable,
like you know, like the failureshurt that much worse, and I
remember being in my living roomdoing the exercises.
So the dry try is a 2000 meterrow and then you have 300 reps
on the weight floor and then youget on the treadmill and run a

(08:40):
5k and I remember for I don'tknow probably the better part of
six weeks.
You know, maybe four or fivenights a week.
I would do some of theseexercises.
Well, in the dry try I was thelast one.
You start with the rower.
I was the last one off therower.
I think, tj, you saw that I gotover to the weight floor and I
probably had the fastest,fastest time on the weight floor
by a minute, minute and a half.

(09:00):
I was the first one off of theweight floor and so for me it
was just a, it was a really, itwas a spiritual moment, it was a
life all changing.
I mean just perspective, tohave actually been willing to
and had the vulnerability topractice as weird as that sounds
and then to see that pay offwas really interesting and

(09:21):
pivotal part in my journey.
Pay off was really interestingand pivotal part in my journey.
Wow, for those that arelistening that maybe haven't
started a journey or like oh,here you are, you know, winning
dry tries at the state.
Take them back to when youfirst started running.
Kind of tell the audience whatthat was like.

(09:41):
I mean, I can tell you for me.
I still remember I lived inWestfield, which looked very
different at that time foranyone that's from the area.
Keystone and 31 were allstoplights and I remember doing
my.
I had a loop in my neighborhoodthat was a mile and I ran that

(10:01):
mile and I ran it fast Like itwas every.
I left it all out there.
And I remember coming in andyou know, like you couldn't even
catch your breath and Iremember thinking, gosh, you
know cold turkey to be able togo out.
I knew I had run somewhere inlike the eight and a half, nine
minute range.
I was like you know, that'spretty good because I haven't
run at all Like I've.
You know I'm able to reallypush myself.

(10:21):
I'm able to really push myself.
I remember looking down and itwas 11 minutes, 15-second mile.
I had left it all out there.
That was the start of it.
I think that's important becauserunning is really interesting
and TJ is going to talk,hopefully, a lot about it.
It's one of those that youcan't.

(10:44):
You can't really cheat it right.
Like you, I think everyonestarts.
I was very similar um 12, 13minute miles, like I wasn't a
runner in high school, didn'trun in college, I didn't really
run at all.
I mean, I played all sportswhere you would do some
sprinting, but running was oneof those things where I'm not
even sure I knew how to rununtil you actually learn TJ's

(11:05):
shorter cadence, longer strides.
But I think in every single oneof our journeys it started an
11, 12 minute mile and it's justincredible what the body can do
over time.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
I think that's a great point.
That was something that droveme.
There were a number of things,but that was one of the
continual motivators was how farcan I take this body?
Because I don't think any of us.
From this perspective and thegreat thing about it is you kind
of said it you can't run fromit.
You, it's one of the very fewsports out there.
It's linear for the most part.

(11:36):
Uh, you know, you both play.
You play fairly considerablygolf.
That is not a linear sport.
You can go play 20 hours ofgolf a week and you're going to
get better, but you're going tohave days where you go out and
it's just like you've neverpicked up a club before, whereas
running, if you're consistentand you're smart about it,

(11:59):
you're going to see continualimprovement For the most part.
You'll have bad days here andthere, but your fitness will
continue to grow and that wasalways something you know.
I do say I do sharesimilarities with the both of
you as it relates to trying tofind kind of my place.
I wasn't the greatest basketballand soccer player.
I wasn't the best golfer.
Um, I really was relativelymediocre from a sports

(12:23):
perspective.
You know, I kicked on thefootball team which most people
don't even consider kickers aposition, pretty mediocre
athlete, you know, throughoutmiddle school and high school
and as I kind of moved into thisand saw that I could do, okay,
you know, a sub four hourmarathon is a great

(12:45):
accomplishment.
But then I learned about longerdistance things and I'm like,
oh wow, this could be my thing.
And that was the first two yearsprobably is like I'm going to
do a 50K or a 50-miler or a100-miler, and you know it was
going.
Longer was the first kind ofpath that I went down because I

(13:07):
saw something that could help mereally build an ego which,
looking back, was reallyself-serving but got me started
on where we are today.
What we've done built acommunity.
But that's why I like it.
I like running because it'ssomething that will give back to
you if you put the time and youstay consistent.
And so you know, I mean myjourney is quite lengthy and we

(13:32):
can loop back around and circleback around to that.
But you know, I just wanted tothrow that in.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Well, you both said the word community.
You talked about that in OrangeTheory and you've talked about
it in running.
How important is a communitywhen you're chasing fitness or
really any goal?

Speaker 2 (13:52):
I think it's probably the most impactful thing, and
the reason I say that is becauseyou know we may go down this
rabbit hole a couple of times oroff.
On this tangent, I look atchildren, and we all have
children.
We all have children that areactive in sports in some
capacity and that, nine timesout of 10, is what motivates

(14:15):
them to continue.
You know, six, seven, eight,nine, 10 year olds aren't often
curious as to how far they canpush their bodies.
That's not something that popsup, but if their friends are
doing it.
That is how, in my experiencethus far, you plant that seed
the first couple of years.
Go hang out with your friends,go do something with your
friends.

(14:35):
That fire will grow as youexperience different elements of
whatever it is you're doing.
And I think it's the exact sameas an adult, if you're out
there by yourself.
Sure, we all know people thatspend a lot of.
John Faust, a good friend ofours, runs a lot by himself and
we've talked about it.
There's times that he struggledat times because he doesn't

(14:55):
have somebody to call orsomebody to hold him accountable
, oftentimes because he's so faraway from us geographically
speaking, and when you'rerunning at four, 30 in the
morning.
He's only an hour away, butthat might as well be an
eternity.
So, anyways, I think it's justas important for adults as it is
children.
Um, I think it's vital.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, I would agree with that a hundred percent.
Uh, and I think some of that'sour evolutionary wiring.
I think we're wired to, and Ithink some of that's our
evolutionary wiring I thinkwe're wired to survive and be a
part of the community.
I think that goes very deep.
There's a lot of ourevolutionary wiring that is not
really conducive for today'ssociety and I'm sure at some
point we'll get into that.

(15:38):
But certainly, from a growthperspective, to be able to tap
into that is absolutely critical.
I mean, jim Rohn is one guy thatcomes to mind and there are
multiple people that I think arecredited with a similar type of
saying.
But you become the five peopleyou spend the most time around
and I think that just speaks to,I think, that psychological

(16:00):
wiring to just that communitythat's around you.
You know again, I can't explainpsychologically exactly what's
happening, but it's certainlyyou just find yourself when
you're around other people whoare in shape or running or doing
a certain thing, you just findyourself having that itch to do
it.
Do you feel like?

(16:20):
Well, like I know, at thebeginning of this year, tj
proposed that we would do a runstreak, run every day, because
it's a leap year.
Yeah, we have to get all 366days, and I pretty much told him
I thought this was the worstidea he's ever had.

(16:42):
Like I fought and kicked my wayall the way into you wanted to
make it to Easter.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
You're like oh, we'll make it, We'll just do Easter.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, I was convinced that Easter was it for me, but
by the time Easter rolled aroundit was.
It was no different than takinga shower, like I just do it.
And now we're 350, I'm in the350 range, you're, I know,
probably seven or 800 at thispoint in time.
But the consistency of doingsomething all the time actually

(17:13):
makes it easier.
I was really surprised from.
I've ran about the same amountof miles this year as I did last
year, but when I got my Stravastats said my, I've run 99% more
, like more, more days, sure.
So I've run twice as many daysand just doing that has kept my
lows out.
You know I used to I'd run sixor seven miles for two days in a

(17:37):
row, feeling great.
Then I would take two days offand I'd eat bad and then I'd
feel lethargic.
But now that I do it every day,it's made such a difference.
So I think there's a part of it.
That's consistency.
Community has been huge havingsomeone to run with.
What would you tell somebodythat is like, hey, I want to get

(18:00):
into shape, where would theyeven start?
Well, I want to step back,because I think when people
start to get into shape or where?

Speaker 2 (18:04):
where would they even start?
Well, I want to step back,because I think when people
start to get into shape or startto think about it, they start
to plant excuses.
Oh well, I could and I reallythink it's important for you to
expound a little bit on whatit's taken for you to keep your
streak alive.
Um, you're not, and there'snothing wrong with this, you're

(18:25):
not a stay at home dad, like youhave a busier life than almost
anybody I know, and there's alot of travel involved there,
and so you know I've seen runs,as recently as I think two weeks
ago, where it's like early birdgets the worm and you're on the
treadmill at 325 in the morning.
You know like what.
What has that been like?

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, there there's been sacrifices.
I mean, I would think, if Ilook back at, the hardest time
is when we went skiing and wewere in Vail and I would ski all
day and then I'm at altitudeand I had to go out and run a
mile and I mean it tookeverything.
I had to run 13, 14 minutemiles, just from like, and I'm
just smoked and I'm just.
You know, the the goal is islike you have to run at least a

(19:06):
mile to for for it to count andI've had to do that a handful of
times, especially in Vail, justcause I couldn't breathe up
there.
But yeah, I mean it's just,it's like I plan my day around
it If I don't get it in.
It's been a stress reliever forme and and I just even when I'm
traveling.
We were in Germany for 10 daysand we were on a boat, but the

(19:27):
good part was is, every time theboat pulled up there was a
sidewalk and I got some of mybest miles there and it's like
it's an incredible way toexplore.
I love traveling to new placesand going to run because you
really get to see that areabetter than you would just
walking around.
So it definitely waschallenging and it's been a big
commitment.
But now it's like I, I'm, Iwant to do it.

(19:48):
I'm not having to go throughwhere I don't want to do and
then, once you get out there, um, there's just kind of a piece
about it.
So it's been a good transition.
Mentally I'm in a much betterplace than what I was before, uh
, because I, if you would ask melast year, it's like I don't
really love running and I kindof I still probably tell people
that but, um, I think theimportant thing for all of us is

(20:09):
none of us were really runnersand, um, also, from a weight
standpoint, outside of Todd'salways been slim.
Um, me and you have alwaysstruggled with, with our weight,
uh, and so that's somethingthat I still we love to eat and
that's the thing that I stillstruggle with.
And so, for those of you thatare listening, like we all had a

(20:32):
starting point where you knowTJ, at one point in time in his
life, was 250, 250 pounds.
What do you weigh?
165, 160 so I just want to putthat out there, that, um, I
think we've all been at everyphase of a journey for at least

(20:52):
most people that are listeningto the podcast and and we've
we've had to overcome that withfamilies, with kids, with
businesses, with multiple jobs,and so community is a really big
part of that, consistency is abig part of that.
Is there any other componentsthat you guys would like to?
I would just say you've got toreally understand your why,

(21:18):
someone who says they want toget in shape.
My first question is why?
Because if the answer is, well,it would just be nice to be in
a little better shape, you'regoing to have to dig deeper than
that.
I mean, in my experience, yeah,there, as you just talked

(21:40):
through that, and not noteveryone's going to be trying to
run 366 days in a row orwhatever, but we don't have a
lot.
I mean, in this society today,as busy as we are and running
around, especially if you're aparent or you have, you know
there's not a lot ofdiscretionary time, right?
So when you're talking aboutworking out, let's just say
someone wants to work out.
You know, let's set a simplegoal.
I'm just going to work out 45minutes a day.

(22:01):
Right, it's really easy, soundseasy.
And then you think about workand you think about making meals
, taking care of kids, runningpractices.
You maybe, maybe I would say aparent in today's society that
maybe has a profession or is,you know, even those who are
employed at their home doing allthe things keeping the house up

(22:24):
, maybe have a few hours ofdiscretionary time, maybe.
And then you think about that45 minute workout and you think
about getting ready.
Maybe you're driving somewhereif you don't have a treadmill,
maybe you're getting back, maybeyou're showering after that
turns into an hour and a halfreally quickly, and so, all of a
sudden, 50% of yourdiscretionary time on a daily

(22:44):
basis is gone.
We're not even talking aboutthe mental hurdle of like you've
got so much going oncognitively there's no space
there and you got to get overthat hurdle just to make the
decision to go work out Soundshorrible.
You're thinking about the pain,you're thinking about the you
know, just the gasping for air.
Just so for me, I think it's areally, really important thing

(23:07):
to understand your why and Ithink, if you dig deep enough,
there's a lot there.
But I think a lot of people Iuse the phrase they want to want
to get in shape, and I don'tsay that in a derogatory fashion
, because there's a lot of areasin my life where I want to want
to do something but I'm not.
I'm just not in a place in mylife.
The timing's not right to putin the time and the energy and
the effort into that.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
I think you've got to be.
Also, I think there's threeother elements here.
Patience is a big thing andbeing honest with yourself, you
know.
Patience, you're not.
This is fitness.
You're not going to see quickresults, you know.
And and if you do, you need tobe cognizant of the fact that
that's not typically normal andthat there are going to be ebbs

(23:51):
and flows and there are going tobe moments where you're not
making the progress you thinkyou should make.
Right, because that's just nothow the body works.
We, we understand it a littlebit, but, as most people know,
we don't understand it to anyreal degree of uh, expertise, I
guess I would say.
So I think that's that'ssomething you need to be patient

(24:12):
.
It's going to take, you know,from a, from a running
perspective, you don't typicallysee major fitness gains for at
least six weeks and I shouldn'teven say major, I should just
say fitness gains in general forsix weeks.
So don't think you're going togo out there and run three miles
once and all of a sudden you'regoing to go from an 11-minute
mile to a 730.
Some people are very naturallygifted.

(24:33):
There are always outliers,there are always anomalies, but
you be patient with yourself.
And then also and I say this,you with yourself.
And then also and I say thisyou've got to be honest with
yourself and you've got tounderstand you're going to
uncover different layers of thisonion as you're progressing.
I say this as somebody whostruggles with a lot of
different things.
You know I've been lucky to stayfairly healthy over the last

(24:57):
decade 12 plus years and reallyimprove my fitness.
But I know I don't doeverything right and I'm honest
with myself about that.
I know that I could eat better.
I know that I could sleepbetter.
I know that I could do morestrength work there's all of
these other things that I know Icould do that would benefit me.
But I'm honest with myself andyou do have to make that, and

(25:21):
this is kind of a little bitmore in depth.
You do have to make that andthis is this is kind of a little
bit more in depth.
You do have to have thatconversation with yourself like,
look, I'm not gonna run a 230marathon because I don't want to
dedicate that, and I've hadthat conversation with myself.
I don't want to go to bed at 730 every night.
I don't want to eat completelyperfectly, I don't want to do an
extra hour and a half oflifting on top of my hour and a

(25:43):
half of running every day.
I just don't have that in meright now, at this point in time
of my life, and so I'm honestwith myself and I think that's a
big conversation that you needto have and is somewhat relevant
to the why.
And then the last thing I'llmention I don't want to digress
too much is fear, and you talkedabout like getting started, and
I see that having founded atrack club and and having you

(26:07):
know more than a hundred membersand having two races that we
produce and having hundreds ofpeople run those over the last
couple of years, and then justhaving general conversations.
As you know, as anybodylistening to this knows, when
you're passionate aboutsomething, a lot of the
conversations you have typicallyrevolve around that right.
People meet you and have metsomebody else that you know and

(26:28):
they know running's a thing youdo, and so that's always a topic
of conversation, and one of thethings that I've heard so often
is oh, I can never run with youand what you don't realize and
they're fearful.
I can never run with youbecause I would feel inferior
and I would feel slow and Iwould feel whatever.
And what you don't realize isto somebody who's done this,
that community is so important Iwould run.

(26:49):
If you want to go walk 20minute miles with me, I'd much
rather do that than go run, youknow, uh, eight minutes at five,
30 by myself, or eight miles atfive minutes, 30 seconds by
myself.
So overcoming fear is anotherone of those big things.
They're putting yourself outthere having the honest
conversation.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
We'll go back to that a little bit.
Um, I was going to ask you justto follow up on your why,
because I feel like you'veshifted a lot and you even
talked about maybe maybe there'sgoing to be one or two more
kind of goals levels that youwant to achieve in terms of
speed or distance.
But you've talked about yourwhy being helping people that
are getting into this.
So what's interesting aboutwhat you say there maybe expound

(27:29):
upon it just a little bit ispeople allowing you to run with
them who are just gettingstarted can be huge for your why
and keeping you motivated.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Well, yeah, and I think that's why, you know, I
talked about two events weproduce and one of the things
I've always really enjoyed in aprior life I threw parties for a
living, produced thousands ofevents, and I always love seeing
a smile on a person's face.
It was in a completelydifferent environment, at
nightclubs and things like that.
But the races we produce arevery specifically curated to

(28:03):
help someone continue theirjourney onward and to find that
next thing that's going tomotivate or inspire them within
running.
So one of them is a 50kilometer race that we put on on
the Monon, which is an iconictrail in central Indiana.
And you know, there are a lotof people that have that one and
done mentality when it comes tomarathoning and they kind of

(28:25):
lose their why.
I want to do this, because Iwant to accomplish it, because
and we talk about inspirationand this is something that kind
of crystallized for me years agoInspiration can come in so many
forms and a lot of the timeit's jealousy If that guy can do
that, then I can do that, youknow.
And so people are like oh so,so-and-so, down the street ran a
marathon.
Well, I'm going to run thismarathon one time to prove to

(28:46):
them that I'm as good as theyare, or better, and then it's
over with, unless you can catchthem in that moment and give
them something else to chase.
That maybe isn't driven by thatinspiration, if you will.
The Fulmo is that it is a 31mile race, so just five miles

(29:07):
longer.
It's a net downhill the entireway.
Ultra races for the most partand I would I'm going to say 90
plus percent are run at a muchmore casual effort.
When you're running a marathon,you're running as fast as you
can.
In most instances, if you'reracing it, you're grabbing water
, you're slamming water.
In an ultra, you're runningunderstanding that you have to
run 31 miles ultimately.
And so we've curated that racevery specifically to help

(29:31):
somebody find that next why?
And help somebody kind ofcontinue on through their
journey.
And the other one I want totalk about, you know, our other
race is even more so curated andcrafted in that manner.
I do want to make one morestatement, though, and I don't
want to expound on this too muchbefore going back down that
rabbit hole on our other race.

(29:51):
I, as I told you guys earlier,was always motivated by early on
.
Motivated by.
This is my thing.
This is my thing, is my thing.
This is my thing.
This is going to, like, youknow, my dad is going to
recognize me now because I'mdoing this, or my mom is going
to give you know, my sportingaccomplishments kudos because
I'm finally, you know, doingsomething different or better,

(30:12):
or this is whatever.
Um, and I was really heavilyfocused on myself, probably
until we started training forsub three hour.
Everybody and watching youfinish at BQ too, I was always
the one everybody else waswatching finish like that, right
away, like there was thefeeling that I had back when I

(30:33):
was throwing parties, watchingsomebody else accomplish and
achieve something.
And our other race, prairie onfire, which is run in September,
is a race and I don't want tospend too much time talking
about the details.
But long story short, you canget somebody who has run as
little as two or three.
The way the race is structured,somebody who's run two or three

(30:57):
miles can come and run fourmiles for the first time.
They can run eight miles forthe first time.
So the way this race is brokenup just so you know you guys do
understand is you have theopportunity to run 4.167 miles
every hour and if you completeit within the hour, you can get
on the starting line at the topof the next hour and run it
again Right, and then at the topof the next hour and run it
again.
So if you've run two milesbefore, you can come run four

(31:18):
with us, or if you've run four,you can come run eight, or if
you've run a half marathon, youcan come run 16, and so on and
so forth, and you get to see somany different people at so many
different stages of theirjourneys accomplishing so many
crazy things, seeing the smileson their faces, hearing their
stories, and that is definitely,for me, completely shifted my

(31:38):
focus.
You know, like you said, I'vegot one or two fast races left
in me and then it's going to beon to really focusing on that.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
And as well as you know, my kids that are runners-
Sure, I have a question for youUm, not a lot of not everyone's
goal, goal oriented, right?
Um, and I know you've kind offallen into that camp at times
that like it can be check a boxthing and like that structure
almost in and of itself can beoverwhelming, like for people
who aren't necessarily goaloriented, like certainly this

(32:11):
year, right, the streak has beena part of that.
But what's your journey beenlike there?
Well, when we first started,there was a couple of goals.
It was the to break the uh, 90minutes on the half right, the
sub sub 130, when we we hit thata couple of different times.
Um, and then running Boston wasobviously a goal.

(32:33):
I think this goes back to whatTJ was talking about, which is
like I just I have four kids, asyou guys well know.
So the ages that my kids are,and I'm in one of the busiest
times of my life and it is I'mnot, I don't want to say because
I think a lot of times we'llsay, well, I don't have the time

(32:55):
.
It's like I'm not willing tosacrifice the time and I'm being
honest with myself.
It's like, look, you can runhalf marathons, I can run half
marathons, we can go out and runone tomorrow, right, like that
you can do that and not have totrain a lot.
When you're training for amarathon, it's a 50 miles a week
and I'm not going out to run amarathon unless I'm going out to
run a marathon.

(33:15):
And so you know, the last onedidn't work out as well, uh, as
I wanted it to.
But I realized right now, likeI just don't have the desire and
I think a lot of that is whatyou were also saying it's uh,
I'm, I'm, I'm chasing it formyself, like I like.
Okay, so then I run a three ohfive and qualify for Boston,

(33:36):
Like it just start some.
Some of it has lost itsimportance to me.
I was trying to getsignificance from it and now I'm
just kind of like I just wantto be healthy, I want to feel
good, and so I've kind ofsettled into where, if I can
feel good and I, you know, Ijust I don't know if I'll ever
go for a sub three again I'llprobably have different goals.

(33:58):
We talked about maybe 2025 isthe year I actually run one of
TJ's races.
I think there could be some funstuff there, but I'm just not
willing to sacrifice the time.
Yeah, that's a tough one, Iwill say.
Personally, I go back and forthbecause I do find, especially in

(34:19):
training season, that it can bereally, really healthy for
other areas of your life too,right?
So I I saw a meme the other dayand it was like you should go
out into nature for 20 minutes aday unless you're really busy,
and then you should go out foran hour, right, which is, like
you know, for me.
I kind of translated sittingout in nature with prayer, right

(34:42):
, or like spending timespiritually.
But I think that's a reallyinteresting thing because I
think sometimes the busier weare, we a lot of times we
squeeze out the important and welet the urgent in, and I think
that can be a trap, and I fallin that trap on a daily basis

(35:03):
still, and it's something that Ithink I bounce back and forth
with.
I struggle, I want to be healthyphysically and mentally, and
how do I do that?
Is it like it's almostcounterintuitive that, ooh, I
should make sure I'm spendingmore time running Not to go too

(35:24):
far down the spiritual rabbithole.
But I was at a conference a fewmonths ago and the gist of the
speech of the keynote speakerwas that prayer actually
multiplies time.
It doesn't actually take time,it multiplies time and angle
similar to fitness in that ifyou spend the time there, that

(35:46):
can give you such clarity andsuch focus that your
productivity in other areas ofyour life goes up exponentially.
So I've always struggled goingback and forth with that, but I
think, tj, you were going tojump in.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
No, I just think you're spot on there.
I think that's really important.
I think one thing that you'llfind whatever type of fitness
journey you take, you never feelbad after a runner workout
Right, like never 100%.
You know, if you get it done,that is going to give you that.
You know there's been a lot ofdiscussion and there's this I
don't even know, maybe it's amyth, maybe it's not.

(36:20):
It's really hard to pinpoint therunner's high, if you will.
You know there are times whenyou're running where you feel
very, very fit and it feelseffortless and it's enjoyable.
But you know, I wouldn't saythe runner's high is anything
more than just feelingaccomplished.
It's like, man, I went outthere and did that and the more

(36:40):
difficult it is to get out, thebetter you feel afterwards.
Or the more difficult theaccomplishment, the better you
feel afterwards.
So I would I would kind ofalign with what you're saying
there.
You know, I love that feelingevery single day, um, and I love
the feeling that that again,you get out there and you get
from the community and if youcan, if you can accomplish a

(37:03):
number of those things, if youhave people to reach out, that
you can go out there and you canbe help them, help hold them
accountable, and then vice versa.
You're just accomplishing allof these different things and
you're suffering for what's,what's.
You know this, this greatergood, if you will.
So I just wanted to add that on.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
I want to go back to your question just for a second
about those who are startingearly.
In addition to knowing your whyand really understanding like,
is this really worth it?
As you guys have talked acouple of times, being honest
with yourself, I would say startsmall.
I think what some people forgetis that when you're starting a
journey like this, you've gotphysical hurdles to overcome and

(37:40):
you have psychological hurdlesto overcome, and I think doing
those both at the same time isway more difficult than a lot of
people give it credit for.
It's extremely difficult.
If you guys have read AtomicHabits by James Clear really
good book he talks about whenyou're building, trying to build
habits start small, startreally small.

(38:01):
Trying to build habits startsmall.
Start really small.
And it's like if you want tostart working out, wake up and
get dressed, and maybe that'sall you do for a week is you
wake up and you get dressed andthen you go back to sleep or you
do whatever, and then you showup at the gym and you go there
for five minutes.
You like walk in the door,maybe you get on a machine,
maybe not, and then you go homefor a week and it's because

(38:25):
you're, you're knocking out inthose times, you're knocking out
the psychological hurdles thatyou're running into right Of
like, oh, I don't want to get up, I don't want to do this.
I don't know how many timeshave we started to train for
something and we've gonecompletely all out, right out of
the gate and then you flame out, right.
So I would encourage people tonot feel like they have to
accomplish that all at once.

(38:46):
The physical and the mentalStart extremely slow and
appreciate the fact that, evenif your physical fitness is not
changing at all, yourpsychological makeup is changing
and that's really going to behuge in sustaining a journey.
Well, and I think what a lot oftimes we do is, we come in 2025
hits and it's like okay, I'mmaking these physical

(39:08):
commitments and then I'mcompletely changing my diet and
then I'm going to completelychange this habit, and you're
like so you stack them right, um, which can make it even harder.
You know they say the.
You know the the pain ofstaying the same becomes greater
than the pain of change willfinally change, right, like you
don't.
And so to get that type ofleverage and trying to do all

(39:30):
those at once, it still isn'tgoing to be feasible.
I even know now with therunning um, I'm trying to do
some, some core and I'm tryingto do some stretching, and so
I've found people thatunderstand that better.
And I went and met with someoneand I'm trying to do some
stretching, and so I've foundpeople that understand that
better.
And I went and met with someoneand I said I'm not going to the
gym, I need a five minuteworkout.
And she gave me a three and ahalf minute workout I can do

(39:52):
every day, and then I throw in25 pushups.
Like if I tried to say I'mgoing to hit the gym twice a day
on top of running, it justwouldn't happen and I just know
that I'm not going to make thatsacrifice.
So I think you're spot on withhow do you take baby steps and I
know a lot of people just start, get on a treadmill and do a
mile, walk it, walk it and jogit, and then, like you know, if

(40:13):
you want to get into running, ifyou're capable of running, and
you get out there, what I wouldrecommend is the same thing that
John started with is like geton the treadmill and start
walking and then jog, and thendo a walk, jog, walk, jog until
you can get to about three miles.
If you can run three miles, youcan run a half marathon and so
just kind of building into that,realizing it doesn't have it

(40:34):
doesn't need to happen overnight.
Let me ask you guys a questionabout goals.
I've been thinking about minefor 2025, and I've been
struggling a little bit.
My mantra has always been goalsbreed habits and habits breed
change.
So I've always beengoal-oriented, right.
But what I'm really strugglingwith this year is maybe not

(40:58):
setting a goal of like a pacetarget or a distance target, but
setting a goal of like I wantto maybe run five hours a week
or do something fitness wisefive hours a week.
But I'm thinking about that,just trying to be thoughtful and
mindful about will I be able tosustain that?
Is there enough motivationthere?
Versus I want to run, I want toqualify for Boston the next

(41:23):
year, at Boston this year I wantto run the Fulmo and sub four,
you know, like an actual timegoal that's going to have a
workout accountability andmileage accountability to it,
versus just like a habit focusedgoal, like how do you guys set

(41:43):
your goals, like what's workedwell for you and getting advice
for me.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
I just I don't know I'm not, as I'm definitely not
as goal oriented as you guys,but I try to keep it fun and try
to keep it unique.
You know, I look at a lot ofpeople uh, you know, in the
running community and Strava,for those of you who don't know,
is a big social media platformfor endurance athletes and I
look at bios and typically yousee a bio.
If they're a trail runner,it'll have their 50K time, their

(42:12):
50 mile time, their 100 miletime or how far they've gone
from a distance perspective, andif they're a road runner, it's
going to have their 5K, 10k,half marathon, marathon times
and that's pretty standard forpeople.
What I like to do is accomplishother stuff within whatever it
is that I'm passionate about.
That's strange Running everyroad in the city of Westfield,

(42:33):
running every road in the cityof Carmel, running relays with
my buddies in different statesacross the country, going and
crewing or supporting somebodyor pacing somebody in a big race
, doing things, running a streak, something that you haven't
ever done before, and itrequires a little bit of
pre-planning, a little bit ofexploring, like, as opposed to

(42:53):
because the grind is awful andthe better you get at something,
the more arbitrary your goalsbecome.
You know like, okay, I brokefive in the mile at 44 years old
, what's next?
Who cares?
You know, same thing with.
You know you break 240,whatever in the marathon.

(43:14):
Nobody knows what that means.
And again, that, I guess, guess, assumes that you're doing
whatever you're doing for otherpeople.
But you get to these levels andit becomes just so arbitrary,
unless you're again competing ata level where you're one of the
best in the country or one ofthe best in the world.
At whatever it is you do,there's different things that

(43:37):
drive you there, but I don'tknow.
You know, I think that keepingit unique and fun and trying to
find different things thatyou've never done before, um,
and being open to and this isthis is an achilles heel of mine
I say yes a lot when it comesto that, like I'll have ran a
good buddy of mine we call himthe unicorn he'll call up be

(43:57):
like hey, you want to go around50k today just on a whim.
Probably not the smartest thingto do, but it keeps it fun and
that brings your weekly averageup.
You've got your five hours inone shot, so that's my approach.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
I'm trying to think about the last time I set a
fitness goal and I think it'shonestly, I just do what TJ
tells me to because I'm afraidof being kicked out of the
family.
So I think most of my fitnessgoals have come through peer
pressure.
It's just been hey, let's go dothis, let's go chase this, and
I think I've.
I generally start being, youknow, I come kicking and

(44:34):
screaming and then I eventuallykind of settle in and part of
that is just, I don't know, Idon't have a lot of motivation
in that area, but what I can sayis what keeps me in there is
community.
Like I've got a couple ofpeople in Marion that we run and
it's like if I know someonethere is waiting for me, I'm
there.
It's just.
There's that level of communityand trying to anytime you can

(44:57):
do something with other peoplemakes it that much better.
But I haven't done a really goodjob on the goal-setting side.
I focus that probably more onthe business side.
But I think it's great to haveother people around you, the
five people around you thatchallenge you.
They need to challenge youmentally, spiritually and
physically when you talk aboutyour different circles and the

(45:18):
different big, big buckets,having the right people around
you.
Sometimes you're pulling andsometimes they're pulling, but
definitely important.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
One thing that I've started to recognize as we get
older.
I'm the oldest of the three, soI'm in my mid forties, and one
of the other things that'sdriving goals for me is quality
of life.
Finally, we're getting to anera.
So I ran today with a 17 yearold and it was, let me tell you,

(45:46):
um.
The kid is.
He's amazing, but I am facingthings that are considerably
different than what he faces ona daily basis.
And so, trying to architect aplan like, hey, my goal is to be
able to get out of bed and nothobble for the first 30 seconds.
And one thing you do get, youknow, and I, I.

(46:08):
This is kind of crazy.
This is an interesting moment,but I had a conversation with
our dad the other day.
He's in his seventies and I washaving issues with my knees.
No, it's not because of therunning, um.
I was having some systemicthings that we thought was
potentially rheumatoid arthritis, and so I reached out to him to
see do you have any issues likethis that were very acute in

(46:31):
your mid forties?
Luckily he hadn't.
So I feel fairly confident froma genetic predisposition that
it wasn't that issue and it'ssince subsided.
But he said as you do get older, you do.
He's like I am tight the firstcouple steps in the morning and
it does loosen up after a time.
But he's also started ridinghis bike again.
Considerable amounts of time anhour, an hour and a half a day.

(46:54):
So I think for me, doing some ofthese extra things, making sure
that I'm more mobile, that addsextra time.
One of the things that I've beenguilty of in the past is
monster workout and then I justsit the rest of the day and the
next morning I can barely walk.
But getting a little bit moremobile, that's going to add time

(47:15):
in and just being more presentabout, yeah, lean mass and we
can go down that rabbit hole allday is the longevity guys talk
about all of the metrics thatare very important.
We say longevity guys, you'rePeter Attias of the world.
All of the other metrics thatcontribute to greater quality of
life as you get older.
So I started lifting again forthe first time a couple of

(47:39):
months ago, and so that's a bigfocus for me and it's
compounding my focus on fitness.
But I feel better in themorning.
I'm able to do things with mykids that I probably couldn't
have done as easily running only70 miles a week and not doing
any other types of movements.
So that's something that's alsohelped me grow the breadth of

(48:01):
my fitness journey.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
I want you to talk about one thing, because the
number one indicator forlongevity of life, vo2 max.
Talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Sure.
So VO2 max is the ability ofyour body how quickly or how
much oxygen can your body intakeand then process out through
your bloodstream?
And it's extremely importantand that's achieved through fast
interval work.
So you guys, you know those ofyou watching if you've ever

(48:33):
heard of high intensity intervaltraining, hit or what, some of
the stuff you do at OrangeTheory where you have your
different tiers and you're doingsprints or 400 meters.
So it's stuff that doesn'tnecessarily feel great, um, but
that is a huge piece of thepuzzle.
You know, the more, the morecapability you have
cardiovascularly to intakeoxygen, the um more dense your

(48:58):
capillaries are, the more higher, the higher your mitochondria
density is, the better thosethings function.
All of that comes throughdifferent types of endurance, uh
, activity, but, um, it'sextremely important.
So you know that actually kindof plays to your point about
starting small.
If you can get on the treadmilland sprint for 30 seconds, 10

(49:21):
times, with a minute in between,or a minute with with a minute
in between, 10 times, um, youknow, 30 seconds sprint might
feel like a lot.
Some people that's most people,frankly, it's probably less
than a hundred meters.
So think about running the ahundred meters in high school.
You do that a couple of times aweek.
That's going to improve yourVO2 max significantly and really

(49:41):
help you from a longevityperspective.
I mean, I forget what thenumber is, but it's like five
times or 10 times less likely todie from all cause mortality If
you have a VO2 max in the top10% of your and don't quote me
on that, but I think that's whatit is, we can throw up a
graphic or something but top 10%of your age range.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
And that, I think, is just so important because you
said endurance.
So that could be swimming, thatcould be cycling, that could be
running.
I know a lot of thisconversation has been about
running, because that's theactivity that we're involved in,
but the one thing that I willsay since I started running in
2014 and I was probably 20, 25pounds heavier than what I am

(50:27):
now the key factor to all thisis energy, and what I noticed,
doing this as much as I like todo, if I wasn't taking care of
my body, if I wasn't sleepingwell, if I wasn't exercising all
the time, I didn't have enoughenergy to be able to be a good

(50:47):
father, to be able to runseveral businesses.
And so there's one component asyou start your journey into
getting in shape if that is oneof your goals is really to raise
your energy level, because, atthe end of the day, if you have
more energy, you can accomplishmore, and so that's something
that I think I took for grantedor I probably didn't even know

(51:08):
at the time that I didn't haveenergy because I didn't know any
better and when you start toget in shape, you start to lower
your heart rate, your heartstarts to beat less and your
body becomes more efficient.
And now, all of a sudden, I wasfinding that I could do so much
more mentally and physically.
And so when I talk to peoplethat own businesses and we talk
about different things, aboutlike you know, how hard you have

(51:30):
to work and things you have todo is like one of the primary
things you have to do is youhave to take care of yourself,
because, at the end of the day,if you don't take care of
yourself, you're not going tohave good energy and you're not
going to be able to last a long,over a long period of time.
I mean, anybody can grind itout for a decade or two, but
that's been probably the biggestchange for me.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
I like that comment, though, that you just made about
grinding it out a decade or two.
I think that you know I hadheard this discussed in the past
around the term grit I think.
I think I forget the name ofthe lady who wrote the book, but
I remember reading that bookand her saying that there are so
many people who havemisconceptions of what grit is.
You know, like going and workingon Wall Street and working 90

(52:10):
hour weeks for a year to.
You know, elevate yourself inthe New York, that is not grit.
You know, doing stuff for 20years, showing up every day and
it's.
I think it's become so muchmore difficult with the instant
gratification culture and we'veI mean you've been having this
discussion for a decade now,right, because we've continued

(52:31):
to see the evolution oftechnology and the ability to
get things much, much quicker,and so I think being able to fly
in the face of that is really,really important.
You know, for us as humans, andyou know there's there's
nothing more gratifying thanbeing able to show up
consistently for yourself andshow up consistently for other

(52:54):
people.
The reward that comes with thatis is greater than anything you
would ever get from an instantgratification pathway.
So I think that's that'simportant to call out.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
True.
Why don't you continue on?
You were talking a little bitof just about getting started in
this in your journey.
Is there anything else?
I mean some of this I think forboth of you we've touched on,
but what gaps would you fill injust about your journey?
I don't think I ever would havestarted this on my own, so I
would go back to community, andCommunity is what has continued

(53:29):
to allow me to focus on myphysical fitness.
It's an area that I don't loveby nature, and so it's one that
I have to have a really strongcommunity in and grateful.
Talk about that a little bit.
You mentioned just briefly thatyou went and watched TJ run 100
that summer.
Yeah, which was crazy, that wascrazy.
And then he ran a 500K, whichwas even it might be the most

(53:52):
impressive thing I've ever seen.
But go ahead.
Yeah, there's probably a wholenother podcast for those.
But talk to me a little bitabout that experience.
I think, when a lot of peoplethink about getting into
something, going and spectatingis probably not the first thing
that they think of, especiallysomeone that you might know or
is close to you.
But talk a little bit aboutthat experience and what that

(54:15):
was like and how that maybe youknow expound a little bit on how
that lit a fire under you.
Yeah, so it started when youtwo ran the marathon together.
There was some emotion thereand that kind of piqued my
curiosity Like there's no way Ihave the time.
I have a newborn child.
And I kind of piqued mycuriosity Like there's no way I
have the time to.
I have a new newborn child.
And then when it came to TJdecided to do the hundred miler.
We were all going to go out andsupport that and we could pace

(54:37):
him right, we could pace him fora certain amount of miles and
it was like, okay, well, I'llstart running so we don't have
to worry about pace, cause it'shalf minute miles, so it wasn't
a pace thing.
So you may have even encouragedme like hey, why don't you get
in shape?
And like start running.
And you know you can run six toeight to 10 miles with me.

(54:59):
You know kind of jump on andoff the course.
And that was kind of the firsttime like, okay, well, I can get
in shape, because running sixmiles felt a heck of a lot
easier than 13, instead of likeand then because when I saw you
guys do the marathon, I was like, oh, I got to do 26.
And that just that, that dreamwas too big for me.
I just couldn't swallow that.
So when I saw TJ do the hundredand I got to participate and I

(55:21):
think there's even a time whereI did like eight to 10 with him
and and I was like I think I cango more and you're like, you
know, you hadn't been been onthe field yet but I was like I
was already getting that, thatenergy from being out there with
him and kind of being a part ofit and seeing him accomplish
this and what he was goingthrough.
I saw him at 48 or 50 miles.
He um had been taking gels forthe first 50 miles and he never

(55:45):
done it for that long, and so at50 miles he literally puked all
his gels up and started eatingsome really real food.
And I'm like and he has 50miles left and I'm looking at
this like he's insane, whichI've already known that but like
it was one of the wildestthings to see the mental
perseverance and how he broughthimself back together and

(56:07):
finished.
So like he finished a hundredmiles and I think we, you know,
took him to the airport in awheelchair the next day and so,
seeing the mental toughness fromthat, I walked back and like I
can't, not right.
And part of it was thecompetitiveness.
It's like if my brother can runa hundred, surely I can run 26.

(56:28):
He's not that much morephysically gifted brother can
run a hundred Surely I can run26.
He's not that much morephysically gifted.
And what it was is he'smentally stronger and proven to
be.
Ever since then, like themental toughness that I saw in
the 500 K was beyond anything.
I mean, dude had like shinsplints and had 170 miles left.
In some it was just, and so somuch of life is mental that I

(56:50):
needed to see that type ofaccomplishment.
I needed to see that type ofdrive to let me know that I was
capable of it.
You mentioned there for asecond.
If he could do this, I could dothis.
We both have talked about thisa little bit that and I'd love
for you guys to expand on itjust a little bit.
It's just an interestingobservation that all three of us
, the reason we started runningand the reason we, you know,

(57:10):
started setting the goals andwanted it so bad, has really
nothing to do with why we'restill doing it today.
Like it's been reallyinteresting observation how that
has evolved over time, whetherit was the competitiveness of,
well, he can do that and I'm abetter athlete than him, or I
can do this, or this is going tobe my thing, like anything that
you guys would add to thatevolving over time, because I
don't know, it just jumped out.

(57:31):
It's interesting to me.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
I wouldn't say evolving over time, but I'd say
don't be afraid to use it, don'tbe afraid to find, don't be
afraid to find something and usethat.
There's a good friend of oursI'll name him in a later episode
but he creates completely fakecompetitions with people that
don't even know he exists.
But it's to fuel that fire andhe's not afraid.

(57:52):
He'll admit to his friends.
You know so-and-so doesn't knowmy name or who I am, but
they're my target and they're mytarget for X reason.
So I would say that don't beafraid to use that to get you in
the door.
Use whatever you need to use toget you in the door and then it
will.
It will evolve out of necessitybecause you can only go back to
the same well so many times.
Like you said, you don't reallyhave the desire to go sub three

(58:15):
For whatever reason.
I went back to that well forseven years.
It took seven years to breakthree hours in the marathon and
as that.
But that's coming to an end andI can see that.
You hear a lot of NFL playersor PGA tour players that are in
the twilight of that career.
You know, I can see the 19thhole right, like I know I'm done

(58:38):
, um, not because I've lost thepassion for it, but like I'm
done, I'm not interested ingoing to that well anymore.
I want to find a new well totap into, so get in any way you
can.
If you want to look better thanthe lady down the street, then
there's your motivation and youstart there and I promise you

(59:00):
you'll eventually get to whereyou want to be.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Yeah, I think for me as I get older it's just most of
the drive of a young man iscompetitiveness and I just don't
care, because I don't identifyas that as much anymore.
It's not important that I haveto be the best, and maybe that
comes because I'm in my early40s, or maybe that's because I'm

(59:24):
more focused on my kids.
But where I have been moreinternally focused is been
because I want to be better thansomeone else sitting next to me
or across from me, and I'vekind of realized that that's not
my identity and I don't needthat to feel good about myself
Although when I do it I stillfeel good about myself.

(59:45):
So it's still there, but it'snot driving me like it was when
I was younger.
Tj, what about we haven'ttalked?
I mean you've?
touched on parts of your journey.
So it's still there, but it'snot driving me like it was when
I was younger.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
TJ.
What about?

Speaker 1 (59:55):
we haven't talked I mean you've touched on parts of
your journey.
There's obviously a lot ofcontent here, but what would you
?

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
add to kind of what you've already touched on.
You know, I was on X the otherday and a buddy of mine tweeted
which is weird to call it X andnot Twitter but you just tweeted
whatever out.
What is something you wish youwould have done in your twenties

(01:00:25):
and it was my thing was I wishI would have explored the full
potential of my fitness in my20s.
I would have loved to have seenwhere I could have gone if I
had continued from Seattleonward without a break.
That would have been awesome.
But as it relates to my journey, it's really just.

(01:00:48):
I've had a great time continuingto explore the different
aspects of my being throughrunning.
So initially it was I knew thatI've always had this kind of
ability to just lock on like,say I won't, and just do

(01:01:09):
something.
Um, where you know, when Icross the starting line, the
only option is finish or death,and I mean that almost as
literally, as literally as I can.
You know whether it's throwingup, whether it's having perineal
tendonitis or something likethat in a race and still having
over 150 miles to go likethere's, there's nothing that so
early on it was.

(01:01:29):
Let's take advantage andexplore how far we can push this
mentally, and then, once we'vekind of gone through that, we've
run 300 miles in a six dayperiod, then it was okay
physiologically how far can Ipush this?
And exploring different things.
And then you know, we've talkedabout utilizing different forms
of motivation throughout.
But you know, for me, I and Iknow this sounds redundant

(01:01:51):
because we've talked about it abunch when it comes to community
, but you know, there are peopleout there that surround us that
are wired in a way that theywill never lose that competitive
fire and that they will burn itto the ground.
Um, and I think we see thosepeople in a lot of different
sports.
You're Michael Jordan's of theworld, you're Kobe Bryant's of
the world, and I don't take thatfor granted, I don't take that

(01:02:15):
lightly.
I see people out there doingthat, and that does allow me to
say, if they can, then, like yousaid earlier, if he can do this
, then I can at least do this,you know.
So being thankful that we'reable to have people in our group
that have, that are wired likethat and that show, that can
show us, you know, the art of,or what is possible, I think

(01:02:40):
those have all been things thathave kind of contributed to.
You know we will talk about myjourney and some of the
specifics of different things,I'm sure throughout these next
couple of episodes, but juststaying somewhat high level for
now.
That's a weaving kind of allover the place and I know I'm
kind of here and there with it.
But if I were to add anythingin for my journey, those are the

(01:03:01):
kind of highlights and thethings that stick out, testing
those different elements of mybeing Let me ask you a question
about the human body, but thisis to both of you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
I can tell you one thing that I've been through my
12 year journey.
I've been blown away at thecapability of the human body and
it's triggered me at times tothink about the times in history
right 30, 40, 50,000 years ago,like you think, about the
conditions and the lack ofresources that people had to

(01:03:30):
survive in that time and timeswhere you know we've evolved
from that right, where we the Ifeel like in my, you know, in
just thinking about this, Ithink we leverage in today's
society a fraction of a fractionof a fraction of the capability
of the human body.
We live such in a convenientworld and you think about some

(01:03:53):
of the thresholds and levelsthat the human body was pushed
to historically.
We never achieve that unlessit's volunteered right, unless
we actually engage in it bychoice these days, right?
So talk to me like maybe justthings that you've learned about
the human body, cause youmentioned this, I think a lot of

(01:04:15):
people are thinking this like Ican't do that, like that's not
me, my body's not right, butlike talk a little bit about
what you've learned about maybeyour own body, but just the
human body in general.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
I just think it's, it's I just think it's it's, it
can do so much more than youthink it can do.
You know I've got a.
You know from a personalexample, my story is very
similar to Trent's when Istarted back in 2012,.
I ran a mile or two at 11.52pace, or your story in that

(01:04:49):
regard.
And again, I mentioned itearlier.
Um, now I'm going to say this,and this is relative, again, the
people you surround yourselfwith is an amalgamation of who
you will ultimately be so like.
I'm not as proud of thesenumbers as I would be because my
context has changed so much.
But you know, for from a guywho couldn't break 1130 in a

(01:05:12):
mile to at 44 breaking five,that doesn't make any sense,
right?
Or a guy who it took sevenyears to run three hours in a
marathon, who his first marathonwas four hours and seven
minutes to be able to run in the240s All of these things you
know to be able to run a 10 K infive, 40 pace, I never know.

(01:05:36):
There we don't have any genetichistory, there we don't have
any relatives that werephenomenal road runners or
phenomenal cross country ortrack runners zero.
And to it's taken 12 years andI just think people quit before
they ever get there, but thethings you can do.
You know, I have a good friendthat I've been hanging out with

(01:05:58):
a little bit more recently andyou know I think oftentimes you
paint yourself into a corner.
Like you said, I'm this type ofperson and that's it.
You know, I'm predispositionedfor whatever it is.
This individual held a few worldrecords in the powerlifting
side of things.
So at 183 pounds he could pulla 705 pound deadlift three times

(01:06:21):
.
So a guy like that you wouldnever think could run.
I mean, his body's obviouslybuilt for one thing and it's
lifting heavy weights, benchpressing 500 pounds.
Um, he went out to that race Italked about earlier, prairie on
fire.
This year ran 70 miles.
So you know, when you you thinkthat you're a particular type

(01:06:45):
of person or that you can't dosomething, that's, you just have
to give it time.
You just have to show up and beconsistent, because it's such a
phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
I'll add a little bit to that.
I think the mind gives up waybefore the body right, like
that's been clear in all of ourjourneys.
If you've run a marathon, youknow the mind's given up, it's
called the wall and it hurts.
But the other part of that thatI think is so important is the
way to get through.
That is the group of people.

(01:07:16):
So, like, um, you maybe want totalk about the track club that
you started, but I always try toput myself in a room where I'm
close to the bottom, like I wantto be part.
I want to be the slowest guy inthe room, the guy that does the
least amount of mileage in theroom, because that's what helps

(01:07:36):
me elevate.
And so when you know I'm doing25 to 30 miles a week right now,
kind of in maintenance mode,and there's other people doing
60, it's inspiring, like it'sgood to see those.
If I'm leading the pack atthree, four, five miles a day,
I'm going to be at one or twomiles at some point, like I need
to see those.
Oh man, that dude ran nine or10.
So I think, finding thosegroups and finding groups to

(01:08:00):
where you're just barely hangingin there, because that's going
to eventually, I think, elevateand it has me.
It's elevated me to do more.
You recently did that.
You ran a hundred miles at theprairie.
So talk about the mentaltoughness there and kind of what
you worked through during thatprocess.
Yeah, that was a journey.

(01:08:21):
You mentioned the mind quitsfirst, and there's 100% truth to
that.
What was interesting about the100, in running a marathon, your
mind quits on you two or threetimes.
Your muscles, I feel like, werekind of the second to give up

(01:08:42):
and then your joints start tohurt, especially around 20 to 22
.
The new level for me in the 100was your organs.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Like, you can like feel it internally.

Speaker 1 (01:08:56):
You could feel the exhaustion and it was a mental
battle.
I don't know how else todescribe it, but there was a
level of exhaustion there.
I've never been able to relateto someone just in the fortune
I'll say fortune of my life.
I've never been able to relateto someone who says I stood up

(01:09:17):
and I was exhausted right Afterthat hundred mile race.
I remember going home at ninein the morning it was about just
shy of 24 hours, went home, Itook a sleep or took a nap for
six hours.
I remember going to mass thatafternoon and I couldn't stand
up.
I stood up and I was doubledover the pew in front of me and

(01:09:38):
when I was kneeling I literallywas leaning my body weight on
the pew in front of me because Icouldn't fully stand up without
losing my breath, and I thinkit's context right, you reach
these new levels of exhaustion.
That puts everything else incontext.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
And.

Speaker 1 (01:09:54):
TJ, you've talked about this a lot.
One of the things that I feellike in my fitness journey just
some of this has happened.
Naturally, some of it's beenintentional, but each year
there's usually something that Ikind of push beyond my previous
knowledge boundaries and itsets a completely new context
for what tired is or what itmeans to be exhausted.

(01:10:14):
I mean, we all have young kids,right, and I think sometimes we
experience this frustrationwhen they run 100 meters or
whatever and they're like, oh mygosh, I'm so tired and like I
can't do anymore, my legs hurt,you know that kind of thing.
And when you've run 100 milesor 20, and certainly there are

(01:10:36):
different thresholds for kids,I'm not saying but you know,
there's some other factors andwe were that same way at that
age, right.
So, trying to relate to theircontext and help them push
through that, something I'veactually been giving a lot of
thought to is there's a lot ofpeople now doing, I think one of
the groups that runs our racesdo hard things, guys, right, and
I think is I, the groups?
that runs our race is Do HardThings, guys right, and I think
it was.
I wish I could remember thename of it, but there's sort of
a tradition that sources back toa Japanese tradition where it's

(01:10:57):
like this isn't exactly what itis.
I think we have changed it alittle bit, but doing one hard
thing a year.
And what's been really neatabout that and me just piecing
all this together is it reframesyour confidence or your context
for whatever that happens to beand I started to think about
that for kids, for my kids orour kids or can we help them, in

(01:11:19):
whatever facet they'repotentially interested in or
passionate, and achieve one hardthing in a year just to help
them reframe that context?
Because until you again reframethose boundaries, it's very
hard, it's very very hard.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
We talked about that on the drive up here.
Yeah, was exactly that.
And again, this entire podcast,this entire group of podcasts,
won't only be about running.
But I do have an old.
My oldest daughter is a runner.
I think she's the one out ofour 10 total kids that is a
runner.
Um, it is, I think she's theone out of our 10 total kids
that is a runner.
Um, but I was asking her thisthe other day.

(01:11:55):
She ran the same race he didand she ran seven yards.
So she ran almost 30 miles.
Uh, she's 10.
Um, now, uh, disclaimer, thiswas on her own accord and she
has worked up to this, butanyways, um, I asked her.
I said you know, is going outthere and running and running

(01:12:16):
cross country and running trackand doing these things.
Does that change yourperspective on school?
Because she's doing really wellin school, and if anybody who
knows me personally, this wasnot a strong suit of mine, it
was awful in school, but she'sdoing really well.
I said well is doing these hardthings.
Is this just change yourperspective on you know, if you
can go run 30 miles, how hard isdoing homework?

(01:12:38):
It becomes nothing.
And I think there's there'ssomething that you said that's
that's kind of a two birds withone stone thing.
If you're able to, throughcommunity, get kids started
early in these endeavors andhave them experience these one
or two hard things a year,you're doing a couple of things.
First of all, they're going toexperience the things that maybe

(01:13:02):
somebody else missed out onbecause they didn't start early
enough.
So they're going to see wheretheir physiology could go.
So that's going to be a reallycool thing for them.
But they're also, like you said,going to have this phenomenal
context for what really hard is,and that is something that you
know from a life lessonsperspective.

(01:13:22):
I mean, man, I'm sure you guysand I'm going to go on this
tangent because I'm sure youfelt this way, I know I did
because we grew up in the areawhere technology was booming and
I can remember getting my firstjob and you, you know, back
then people stayed at places fora long time and I remember

(01:13:42):
hearing people say, oh, I waitedfive years, or I got this
promotion six years in and justcould not comprehend, like you
mean, locking in for more thansix months, and that's because,
no fault of our, we grew up inan environment that where we
didn't have these contextualthings that helped us understand
what real hard, long endeavorstook from a mental fortitude

(01:14:09):
perspective, and so so, man, tothat point, just invaluable to
set that context early if youcan do it through the method
that works for your family orfor your kids.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
But that plays in just to everyday life, like if
you're getting up at 6am andyou're running four to six miles
like how many people are doingthat?
Less than 1%.
Four to six miles, like howmany people are doing that?
Less than 1%.
And once you do that, likeeverything else for the day
seems easier.
I remember, like if it's aSaturday, I get up and go run
six miles.
And I get home and my wife'slike hey, can you do the laundry
and do do this, do that?

(01:14:41):
Like yeah, like that's like Imean I got to walk, versus if I
don't do that, everything's likeah.
So I think there's the broadcontextual reset.
But each day, when you choosesomething hard or choose to do
something, or you put in 30minutes of workout, I think it
makes the rest of the day go alot smoother, it makes it easier

(01:15:02):
, it makes it all seem much moredigestible.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
I want to go back to something that you reminded me
when you were talking aboutdoing the hundred at Prairie.
Again, this is the race that wetalked about earlier, where you
run four miles every hour.
So he was awake for 24 hours.
We did a documentary on thisparticular event and you've both
seen it.
But there's an element, there'sa moment in there where we're
talking about kind of yourjourney.

(01:15:26):
I think that that hundredpotentially and I'd like for you
to talk about this a little bitmore was a microcosm of
everything we've talked aboutthat has gotten us to where we
are on our journey.
Like, I think, coming into thatday, we had talked a couple of
weeks earlier about your goaland it was a hundred K,
something to that effect, and inthe morning of you had talked
to our co-race director, corey,and you're like yo, I don't even

(01:15:48):
know if I can run four today,like I just don't feel good.
But there were a number ofdifferent things I think you
used throughout that 24 hours towhether it be compartmentalize
or motivate yourself, and I'dlike you to talk about that
because I think they're all ofthe elements of that journey
packed into 24 hours.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Yeah, I'll try and hit on them.
Uh, I think the fir, the one ofthe earliest ones, was helping
k.
She, I think she was, she hadhit four, which is what she had
hit last year.
And she, um, she was strugglingwith that and you said, hey, I
need you to run with k and pullher through.
And uh, they gave me a why?

(01:16:27):
Uh, because it can get boringout there, like, right, I mean,
that was the thing.
I had the conversation withcorey.
After a couple of laps, I'mjust like I've been out here for
two hours, I've run eight miles, like what am I doing?
Like why, why am I here?
Um, this is, and there's,there's more of that.
But uh, I feel like, as we getolder and we've we've alluded to

(01:16:48):
a little bit of that, but buthelping k got her to her fifth
lap.
She liked it.
She's like, hey, can we do thatagain?
And so we went out for the sixyard and did the same thing.
And this is the interestingthing about running right and TG
you've talked about this is youhit these second wins and third
wins and so that's not win, asin W I N S, but W I N D S right,

(01:17:13):
like you stay up late enoughand you hit, hit that next wind
and that kind of got me intothat next uh hurdle, um, and I
was able to kind of stretch thatto around 50 miles, um, through
community, which we had twoother guys.
So one of the elements of therace is teamwork.
You've got, you have five manteams and and you're trying to

(01:17:34):
go as far as you can, um, andthat got me to my 50 mile mark
and that's what I had donebefore, and that got me in reach
of a hundred K, which was a,which was a big goal.
And I had gotten to 100K and Ihad had an opportunity to shower
.
I had run that lap quick enoughto jump in the shower and kind

(01:17:57):
of clean up and I was justfeeling fresh enough to keep
going.
Right, it was that.
And I got into the mid-70s and Ihit another wall and again it
came back to community.
So one of the guys running withus was Cameron Balzer, and to
go back to another thing we'vepulled on is context.
Okay, so one of the guys I wasrunning with was Cameron Balzer,

(01:18:17):
who had just finished a 12,000mile run around the perimeter of
the United States, and so whenyou're running next to that guy
and you're at mile 75 andthinking, gosh, and we weren't
running fast, you're not runningfast miles, necessarily, you're
just trying to get it in rightand I'm thinking, 4.167 miles in

(01:18:39):
an hour.
If I could run five more ofthese, I think at that time, or
if maybe it was four, it couldget me to daylight, right.
And so I set this, I set a barout there, enough that I was
close enough that I could grabit and run next to Cam.

(01:19:00):
And having that context like ifhe can run 12,000 miles, run
basically 40, 50 miles a day fornine months straight, I think
my body's capable of this.
And so then you get into.
I remember laying on the groundat 88 miles and you would think
at that point it'd be like, well, you've run 88 miles, you could
just run, you can get to ahundred, right, that's.

(01:19:20):
And that's when the, the org,like the, just every part of you
, you can't.
You can't even keep food down.
That was another thing.
That was like you can't eatbecause your digestive system,
you're running, and you'rebasically losing 500 calories an
hour.
If you're running, 125 caloriesa mile give or take and you're

(01:19:42):
trying to replenish that right.
Think about eating 500 caloriesan hour and you've got about 10
minutes to shove that in ifyou're running a decent pace.
You know, maybe if you'rerunning fast you got a little
more time, but after about 15laps of that your body starts to
so.
So then you're talking aboutjust again.

(01:20:02):
That's where you're talkingabout all aspects that you just
hit this level of exhaustion andand then then you just start to
think about.
You know, and maybe you said,use whatever you can right.
Another thing to draw back, notgoing to lie, there was some ego
that played into I'm a few lapsfrom saying I'm a hundred mile
ultra marathoner, right, I canrun a hundred, which is

(01:20:23):
completely egotistical andwhatever.
But like I used it, right, andso you do.
I did.
I did another one and the sunstarted to come up and we were
seeing camera and I he talksabout this in the documentary we
were seeing all kinds of thingsout there.
You start to hallucinate, right, and like some of the signs and
the way they were positioned,the things that we saw and the
people we saw out there, thatdisappeared as you got closer,

(01:20:46):
um was wild, um, but it's again,it's more context, like I'd
never been to a point where Iwas so sleep deprived and had my
body to a point of exhaustion.
I was seeing things thatweren't there, and then we got
to daylight and that was enoughto get me there.
But, to your point, there'sprobably half a dozen things
that we've talked about that youjust kind of try and piece

(01:21:07):
together.
Well, that's probably the beststory to end on right there.
Do you guys have anything elserelated to goals or fitness or
encouragement that you'd like toleave with?
I would love for you guys tofinish with what are you
thinking about for 2025?
If you guys really didn't hit,have you given thought to any of

(01:21:27):
your goals?
I think that'd be a good placeto wrap up.
You want to set mine for me asin true fashion.
That's actually a littledangerous.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
Yeah, I know We'll cross that bridge.
We have a couple things thisyear that I think would be
really fun.
My goal I think I mentioned itearlier, which is just quality
of life Not ready to go fullbalanced yet but I have a few
more big things I want to do inthe road running world in the

(01:21:56):
next couple of months.
One of the big things I want toaccomplish this year, which you
will be involved in, is we'vemade it habit of doing a big
thing together every year.
Last year, I think the firstyear we've missed it since I
turned 40.
So the first year and fiveyears where we missed it, we
will not be missing that thisyear.
You do need to run Prairie onFire in 2025.

(01:22:17):
So I think that's a big one.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
I would love to see you out there for that.
Is that more important than thefull mill?
If I had to pick one, isPrairie on Fire the one.
The good news is they're likefour months apart, so you could
probably probably do both.
Probably do both, yeah probablydo both.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
You know, I mean you got an ant that flies all the
way in from arizona.
I mean I'd really disappointher if you didn't do the full
moon, and then the community atprairie is phenomenal.
So I think you should do bothof those things.
But yeah, mine's, mine'squality of life, continuing to
explore, um a little bit oflifting and grow some things

(01:22:54):
together in our community.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
And it sounds like I'll be running the full mowing
prairie in 2025.
We'll call that a wrap onepisode one.
Thank you guys for tuning in.
Hopefully you picked up somegood knowledge and you feel
inspired and ready to take on2025.
Thanks you guys for tuning in.
Hopefully you picked up somegood knowledge and you feel
inspired and ready to take on2025.
Thanks guys.

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