🎙️Episode 13: Digital Co-Pilots: How AI Is Transforming Business and Personal Decision-Making

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Daily Edge, where we bring you the
latest insights, opinions andthought-provoking conversations
to give you that competitiveedge in life, business and
beyond.
Let's go, welcome back to theDaily Edge, episode 13.

(00:27):
I'm here with my brothers, tjand Todd, and today we're going
to talk about artificialintelligence, how it's impacting
our personal lives, ourprofessional lives, ways you can
integrate it into your business.
I'm sure you've heard about ita lot.
Some people are using it, whichis great.
Other people think maybe it'sjust a nostalgia and you know
that it will eventually catch on.
But there's some reallypractical things that you can do

(00:48):
now.
I use it on a daily basis, Iwould say as we kind of continue
to go on, it's going to becomea co-pilot.
You know you're going to haveAI is going to be able to do a
lot of things for you, and thesooner that you can adopt that,
probably the better from anefficiency standpoint.
But there could be some thingsthat maybe aren't a benefit as

(01:10):
well.
So I'd like to dive in.
Maybe, todd, I will start withyou.
You know you are the presidentof IMG and you a large part of
your role is focusing ontechnology for the company, and
I think artificial intelligencehas been one of those things,

(01:31):
but maybe talk about some of thedifferent things we've explored
and that you have been focusingon from an efficiency or an
automation perspective.
Yeah, it's becoming more andmore powerful tool.
I would say the interestingthing about AI is half of the
value right now of AI is justunderstanding the landscape,
exploring it.
I think it's certainly stillevolving and developing.
I think what's going to happen,though, it's going to adapt and

(01:53):
evolve very fast, and it'sgoing to become more and more
valuable really fast, and if youaren't, if you don't at least
understand the landscape, you'regoing to be too far behind to
catch up and really takeadvantage of it.
So I think, when I look at alot of the exploration we're
doing, a good portion of that isjust familiarizing ourself with
the environment.
Secondly, what I would say isthere is just some really

(02:16):
practical things.
I think the tough thing aboutAI is there's a lot of hype, and
you're seeing it used andpublicized just because people
like to see the very exotic usesof AI.
You're seeing these very likethe.
You know it's doing videos ofpeople right, or the deep fakes,
or you know things that aren'treally practical, and I feel

(02:38):
like that is a huge distractionfrom an AI perspective is just
trying to sort through what, ifit's hype and there's not really
practical applications to yet,and which of it is really
valuable and could be used on aday-to-day basis to make people
more efficient or effective intheir role.
And so we've been focused,tried to focus more on the
latter.
Certainly, we're doing someexperimentation, but I'll give

(03:00):
you an example.
As you mentioned, it is amiraculous brainstorming tool
when you're trying to explainsomething, or you have a
question about something, oryou're looking for it to put
together a plan or a set ofPowerPoint slides or do some
analysis.
It is a wonderful startingpoint and I'll come back and
you'll probably hear me saystarting point dozens of times,

(03:22):
but it is an incredible startingpoint that you can use.
You can input kind of whereyour thoughts are and it will
help kind of pull those togetherand organize those and give you
a starting point that then, atleast at today, where the
sophistication is, you likelyneed to do some additional
massaging too.
But you know, in our industry,our team members, including us,

(03:44):
are faced with a lot ofdifferent day-to-day challenges
of how to explain difficultthings to customers.
There may be very nuancedquestions about products or
coverages or very uniquesituations.
Able to ask that question ofchat GPT and use it as a

(04:07):
starting point or get someinitial insight is incredibly
valuable and could come up withanswers that might otherwise
take hours or at least durationdays, when you're having to
email other people or carriersand wait for responses.
And the interesting thing isthat's a very, very basic use
case of AI.
Almost anymore like people areso far past that they're talking
about all of the again theexotic use cases, I think for AI

(04:29):
organizations who win are goingto focus on these fundamentals.
They're going to take somethinglike that and then they're
going to find a way to make itsuper accessible for employees.
They're going to build aplatform that makes it extremely
easy for that employee tointeract with that entity.
Now I will tell you one of thethings you got to be careful of,

(04:51):
especially when you're in aservice industry, is inputting
sensitive information into thesetools, because anything that
you put into, like a chat gpt,is used for training and that
data could be used in a way thatyou don't want it to be used.
You.
You got to be very, verycareful about that.
So entities, anyone that'susing this from a business
perspective, if it's not ageneric question, I would highly

(05:12):
highly encourage you lookinginto getting a platform and
there are platforms out therethat do this where you can
actually engage with theunderlying model, right,
artificial intelligence, just tokind of give a little bit of a
high overview, what's underneathchat.
Gpt is something called a largelanguage model that has
basically been fed trillions andtrillions of bytes of

(05:37):
information and articles andwebsites.
I mean it's just taking aninsane amount of information and
then it's kind of reasoned itas the human brain would and
then it's regurgitating it.
Right, it learns over time.
I heard the analogy the otherday used as like a kid learns.
When you point to a kid andthis is an apple, right, and it

(06:00):
doesn't know what an apple isinitially, and then you say this
is an apple and you show itpictures of this is an apple and
this is an apple and this is anapple, then eventually you can
give it a picture of an applethat it's never seen before and
it can know it's an apple rightby the characteristics and
different things.
So that's how these learn right.
They just they see and youcontinually provide feedback.

(06:20):
So just a little bit of asidebar.
But going back to fundamentalsof taking those use cases,
making it very accessible forteams to safely engage and enter
in information and questionsand get back out of it, I think
is where a lot of companies aregoing to win, at least in this
early phase of AI.
So let me pause there.
So there are a lot of tools outthere.

(06:42):
So there are a lot of tools outthere.
How do we know?
I mean chat GPT.
For those of you who don't knowwhat chat GPT is, maybe we
should start there with justkind of brief explanation.
Yeah, why don't you?

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Well, I mean, todd kind of really nailed it there
when he talked about largelanguage models and chat.
Gpt is just OpenAI's versionright, is just OpenAI's version
right.
So I've had experience with, Iwould say, three or four
different AIs.
If you will front ends, if youwill so Grok their newest beta.

(07:17):
I'm a Twitter subscriber soI've been able to engage with
that particular platform Alittle bit with Gemini right
Because it's kind of built inthe phone.
A little bit with gemini rightbecause it's kind of built in
the phone.
A little bit with mid journey,which was one of the early image
ai generation tools so justreal quick for people.
Gemini is google's version of it, grok is elon musk's version of
it and then I know, met doesmeta they do have one I forget

(07:40):
what theirs is called and I havea lot of experience with
there's also anthropic.
But anyways, there's a lot ofthese models that different
companies have have createdcontinue and then there's some
of the new ones that are beingdeveloped overseas, and one of
which, deep sea was.
It raised a lot of um eyebrowsbased on how quickly and

(08:00):
inexpensively they were able totrain the model.
I I think that one of the mainthings to take into
consideration, especially as itrelates to models being
developed stateside or trainedstateside, is the exponential
cost and the exponential amountof hardware and time that it
takes to train these models asthey get more and more complex.

(08:21):
So that'll be interesting tosee.
As I'm sure some of you areaware, there've been a lot of
issues on the West Coast andother areas as it relates to
being able to provide the powernecessary to run these.
You know tens of thousands ofGPUs as they, particularly as
they begin to try to train thesemodels.
So you know, to kind of add onwhat you said, I see things very

(08:42):
similarly to you.
I think what's interesting isthat especially people that I've
seen use this.
If you don't massage the dataand once you become familiar
with AI, it becomes prettyobvious.
Like you can, I'm sure any ofus have used it enough.
If somebody copy and pasted aresponse from ChatGPT I% with

(09:02):
100% certainty tell you that itwas chat GPT that said that.
So you know, I think it'simportant that you say the way
you say.
It is like for me.
I have a very strong um, uhyeah, very strong gap in
skillset when it comes to thingslike Excel.
So I will use it a lot of timesto build tables and format

(09:23):
things for me, because I'm notgreat in Excel, but it always
without fail.
I still have some more work todo once.
It kind of re-prompts me withwhat I need from it.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
You said something interesting that I want to touch
on.
You said I can 100% tell whenit's chat GPT.
Does that devalue the response?

Speaker 2 (09:44):
It does for me because and this is something
I'm gonna have to get over Ithink that eventually you're
just gonna have to swallow yourpride and I'll give you a great
example.
This may lighten the mood alittle bit, but this was with
him.
So, like he said in, I think,our last episode, as it relates
to eternize he's, he has to do alot, um, because you know, it's
very important those of us thatyou know for his vision to

(10:08):
continue to be, for him tocontinue to drive forward the
vision.
And so I've been on calls wherea conversation has come up and
before we're off the call, Ihave a 40 bullet point list in
my email that I know cameexactly from ChatGPT and you
know, you like the, my initialreaction to that is visceral.

(10:28):
It's like no, that's a shortcut.
He cheated, like I want to beable to sit down and and I want
to think through these pointsand I want to provide value and
deliver these back and again andwe talked about it in our lap
last episode around identityI've got to disconnect from that
identity.
So I think in this transitionperiod, as it becomes more

(10:49):
prevalent, there are going to bea lot of instances where I've
seen people write emails to sendto other peers like executive
level emails to send to otherpeers and I will tell you this
and I don't know, I'd love yourperspective on it, where you
guys sit as well If I got anemail from somebody that I could
tell you this and I don't know,I'd love your perspective on it
where you guys said, as well,if I got an email from somebody
that I could tell was that Idon't know how I would feel Like

(11:11):
they didn't take the time towrite it.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, I mean, I think it gets into.
I think where this is going toevolve is how people use AI the
right way.
So, for example, I am on a newemail platform that is learning
the way I write emails and thenwhen it writes an email for me,
it's writing in my tone.
So I think there are.

(11:33):
To your point, I think there'sa very transactional way to use
chat GPT that will expose peoplewho are not having some sort of
intentionality there, and thenthere's a way to engage with it
as a starting point and orengage with it very
intentionally.
That, I think will be, willeither bring efficiency without

(11:57):
losing effectiveness or, in somecases, I think it could enhance
effectiveness as well.
But I think it's a fair point.
Here's the interesting partabout this.
I'm wondering if the irritationor the anger comes from the
fact of like it's not importantenough for them to take the time
to actually do it.
They're just doing this andshipping this to me to knock
this stuff out, versus like theyeah, for sure, there's like a

(12:20):
part of that.
It's like well, you're notgoing to take the time to write
the email, to have all thesethoughts, you're just going to
do this and then send it to me.
It's almost like you want me tothink it's important, but it's
not as important to you.
Well, and it's the same thing.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
It's kind of similar to the reaction that I got from
his email.
I wanted to be able to do thatand the harsh reality is that
what Chad chat chat GPT,provided as long as it was
prompted correctly, is probablybetter than I could come up with
, just because it has morepoints of reference.
I can listen to all the contentI want every day, all day, and
I'm never going to even comeclose to matching.

(12:53):
Now, if I understand the nuance, if we're talking about
targeting a particulardemographic from a marketing
perspective, and I understandthe very intense nuance there um
, you know and that comes backto some of these other roles and
responsibilities that are tocome up from a job perspective,
as this evolves, You're going tohave and you already do
prompting engineers.

(13:13):
Guys that I was watching someonethe other day they've spent two
or three weeks writing a promptto prep the LLM, the large
language model, so you had toput this 10 paragraph pre-prompt
in to get the large languagemodel to get ready to give you

(13:37):
what you I mean.
So it's really pretty intense.
One thing I do like from acompetitive perspective, as it
relates to the landscape outthere that you kind of
referenced, is how thesedifferent competitors are
iterating.
So one of the things that Ilove about the new X platform
with Grok is that in real time,it shows you where it's pulling

(14:01):
the information from.
So if you ask it a questionwhere it needs to reference the
web, it's going to give you the15 or 20 sources and, as it's,
as it's uh, finishing yourresponse as it's doing that, so
you can kind of see, okay, Iwant to understand where it
developed its perspective.
So I think that's kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
I think it's really interesting Cause I I the same
way.
I, when I feel like someonecheat coded it, I'm kind of like
I think it's really interestingbecause I I the same way I,
when I feel like someone cheatcoded it, I'm kind of like, um
it, I don't I want to saydiscredit it, but I just I'm
kind of irritated.
And that was a very somethingsimilar when we talked to the
whole team about it.
They're like you guys have beendoing that, I know, and now

(14:40):
they know, and they're like oh,they know, it's chat, so there
is something to be said wherethey think this is like super
thoughtful, a lot of effort putinto it.
There's something correlated, Ithink, with effort and that's
where I think it getsdisconnected.
But I'll tell you a couple oftimes where we've used it in the
other business.
So my partner, you know, wantedto make standard operating
procedures and so he got on hisphone and he recorded himself

(15:03):
for like two minutes talkingabout you know this XYZ, and
then he took the transcript ofthat and put it in chat GPT and
it, you know it transcribed it.
And then he said okay, can youput this in?
You know standard operatingprocedures for this type of
company and, you know, withinfive minutes he had this whole
document done based on.
You know, he's a practicingattorney, so he's got this

(15:26):
knowledge and he was able topull that together and it would
have taken hours it would havetaken an hour just to figure out
how to format it, and sothere's been a couple of
instances and it was good stuff.
Now I know when I get stuff fromhim now, when it's like I get
this bullet point of, likeMichael, did you?
He's like yeah and so, which isstill fine, because to your
point, it's a great information,but do you think it could ever

(15:52):
be overused?
Like, do you lose that personaltouch to where?
Like I'm similar to you, I useit, especially in the email
world.
Like I'll type an email up andI'm just like sometimes I'm all
over the place and then I'lljust copy and paste it and put
it in chat GBT and said this isthe audience, make it more of
this.
And then it'll come back andit'll clean it up for me and
I'll put that in there.
It was my original thoughts,but it sounds a lot better, it

(16:13):
sounds more professional.
Do you guys find yourself doingthat more and more?

Speaker 2 (16:18):
You know, I think actually this just you just
prompted me with your commentaround email and putting your
emails in there for refinement.
You know it's been interestingto see different organizations
out there implement AI indifferent ways in their software
platform.
So one of the products I'veused for probably a decade is
Grammarly.
I don't know if you guys haveever used that, but it's just a.

(16:39):
It's a plugin that tries tolive as best it can across
multiple platforms.
So anywhere you would writeword email, anything like that,
and it's constantly trackingsentence structure, making sure
capitalization and punctuationis in the right place.
Well, you can also now kind oflet it know what you feel like

(17:04):
you struggle with from acommunication perspective.
So if I feel like I need to bemore assertive in my
communication, I can kind of setthat so as I'm writing, it'll
highlight potential sentences orfragments of sentences and then
give me suggestions that may bea little bit more assertive.
So instead of having to pull itout of one system, putting it

(17:24):
in another, get response backand and then put it back into my
email.
It's doing it in real time.
So you know, I like the waythat it's integrated, where it's
still my thoughts and still mywriting, but it's fixing my
punctuation, so I don't comeacross as somebody who's not
intelligent, or it's fixing myspell, fixing my spelling, or
it's changing my tone just alittle bit.
So I like it that way because Ido feel like it has the

(17:54):
potential to really Gosh.
This is a strong word butcastrate creativity, like.
One of the things so I workedwith mid journey early on was
one of the very first image.
I mean to the point that theonly way to prompt it was
through discord.
Uh, and I showed you guys somestuff and it was very it's very

(18:18):
heavily at least early on wasvery heavily tied to um imagery
that had like a fantasy feel toit.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
Is that where you made cams?

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Did I make cam on Mid Journey?

Speaker 1 (18:30):
That would be.
We'll make sure you can see.
He created a-.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
A logo which, let me tell you, that was the luckiest
I've ever, I mean, I've created.
I'm not kidding.
So my wife runs a uh, screenprinting business.
You guys, you know my wife,Tara, is a screen printing
business and and so I've createdhundreds of images.

(18:54):
Um, you know, we obviously haveraces and just different things
that we need to create logosand things for, and 99% of the
time, because the imagegeneration right now is terrible
with text, it can't figure itout Whether it's and I think
OpenAI used to have a differentname for their image generating.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
AI.
What's that Dolly?

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yeah, so you know, I think it has like it.
Just to me, right now theoutput feels very generic and
very similar to what we talkedabout as it relates to the text.
You can tell when it's an AIimage and so we had to do a new,
a brand new shirt for the Fulmothis year.
I wanted to do somethingdifferent than just a logo and I

(19:39):
got on Fiverr and paid somebodya couple hundred dollars to do
it, because I just I know thatif you were to look at this
shirt, you'd be like oh, chadGPT did that it's really
interesting, because I feel likethere's an attachment to effort
.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
But if you choose to outsource something and spend
$200 to outsource it, you'rebasically doing the same thing,
right Like you're not doing it,but we look at that.
That feels differently to me tooutsource it than if someone
chat GPT'd it, I think so.
I mean, I think there's thiselement of it's the same reason
that people like unique piecesof art.
The fact that art is producedin a manufacturing facility and

(20:18):
there's hundreds of thousands ofpeople that can access it
devalues it for some people, andso I think that's part of the
issue.
Although you'd have to have theexact same prompt at the exact
same time, there is somethingthat I think devalues it that
it's just readily accessible toeverybody.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
And there's still a feel to it.
It's like the same artist,right, he could painted 300
different paintings.
Eventually, you're going to youknow whether that's good or bad
, and I think in this instanceand this is just an opinion it
would get bad If an artist goesout and paints a hundred million
paintings.
You know there's no real.

(20:54):
You know the word bastardizedis probably most appropriate.
It's like there's no realemotional connection to it.
I think that it loses thehumanity which is, you know,
interesting to it.
I think it loses the humanitywhich is interesting to say.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
When we think of oh, you have something, go ahead.
I was just going to ask youguys from a personal perspective
so we've talked a little bitabout business what are the most
common ways you've used itpersonally?
I mean we've talked about a lotof different.
Let me get it out and tell youabout it.
Okay, perfect, I think peoplewould.
I mean, we've talked about alot of different.
Let me get it out and tell youabout it.
Okay, perfect, I think peoplewould understand, like because I
think what I'm continuallysurprised by and I still

(21:32):
continue to forget is like Icould ask ChatGPT that or gosh I
should have at least checkedthere as a starting point, and
it's unbelievable how many youjust you don't naturally go
there, so I think peopleunderstanding, like what types
of things you could even takethere, I'm going to take you
through.
I'll try to make it under fiveminutes, but a whole use case.
So me and I was at a volleyballtournament, the Hammond Sports

(21:54):
Complex in Hammond, indiana.
My first question how manysquare feet is this complex?
It was laid out it was the bestone that I've seen that has 10
volleyball slash, basketballcourts and soccer.
And I get the response theHammond Sportsplex is 135,000
square foot facility locatedhere.
Blah, blah, blah.
And then I said how many acreswould you need to build
something like this?
Well, to build that facilityyou would need approximately 10

(22:15):
to 15 acres of land.
Here's a breakdown of the space3.1 acres.
To build it, you need parkinglots three to 500 square foot
parking spaces.
Assume five to 700 spaces, fourto six acres plus three to five
.
And so then it gives you thetotal and the ideal.
And then I said well, how dothese facilities make enough
money to cover the 30?

(22:35):
Because I asked that beforethat, how much it costs to cover
a $30 million build.
And then it went in facilityrentals, leagues and tournaments
, and each one of these had fourbullets membership and training
programs, sponsorships and andnaming rights, concessions and
retail, government communityfunding, other revenue streamed.
And then it said estimatedestimated revenue potential per
year, um, and so like.

(22:56):
Really quick, within fiveminutes I knew how much it cost
when it was built.
I even prompted it to ask howmuch it would cost in today's
dollars, and so it did.
The calculation of like herewas the inflation from 2018 to
2025, and the cost would go up38%.
And this is what it would bethe size of ground you would
need.
I knew everything I wanted toknow about it and I didn't get

(23:18):
into a lot of detail, but when Ihave curiosity, questions about
like oh, you know, maybe thisis this or I want to do this,
let me try to find one more.
It's a really good place, Ithink, to start.
I've done it for some healththings, or like hey, I'm having
this going on in my life.
You know what possibly could begoing wrong?

(23:41):
I've also taken it to whereI've told it all about myself.
Here's my history.
I've literally typed ineverything that I remember about
myself and I've asked it to dothings like hey, can you give me
I got to give a speech, youknow, can you give me eight
slides about summarizing thehighlights of my life?
Right, and it'll put it informat data that I can take it

(24:03):
and take it to PowerPoint or itcan make them themselves.
So those random, one-offquestions where I think you go
to Google now or you go to somesearch engine and it pops up 15,
you know sites for you to go.
Try to pull it all together.
You ask those same questions inchat GPT.
Then you're like, oh you know,maybe you're having a bottle of
wine, like I wonder where thiswine's from, I wonder how much

(24:24):
it costs Chat GPT, da-da-da-da.
And it actually gives you.
I found a very accurate answerin most cases.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
So this is very interesting.
This is going to open apolitical firestorm, but I'll
give it to you anyway.
So I've used it a ton forhealth lately, obviously with
rheumatoid arthritis diagnosisand the calf strain and the foot
fracture and all of thesethings, or stress reaction.
I've been talking a lot to it,a lot about these different
things, and I've found someintriguing.

(24:53):
Intriguing responses.
And I think it's counter towhat you hear, because a lot of
the major podcasters you know, Iknow Joe Rogan is famous for
saying you know it's, you knowit's diagnosing these things
with this incredibly specificaccuracy and it's some odd
percent accurate.
Well, I'll give you a couplethings that it gave me back.

(25:14):
So one of them I was diagnosedwith RA the day after I had
gotten an MRI on my foot for astress reaction and I got a call
on that MRI.
So MRI Tuesday, ra diagnosisWednesday, mri result on

(25:34):
Thursday.
And they came back and theysaid, yeah, so you've got a
stress reaction on your foot,you've got this inflammation
here and you've got thisinflammation here and you've got
this inflammation here.
It was both my perineal tendonsand my plantar fascia.
I said okay.
So I asked Chad GPT.
I said hey, um, could an RAflare up affect the MRI?

(25:57):
And it's like, oh yeah,absolutely, you know, and here's
5,000 reasons why it could.
Well, had I listened to it, Icould have broken my foot,
because it turns out there was astress reaction.
It didn't affect thatparticular whatever.
So importance of a doctor.
But here's the one where I wassaying this is kind of a

(26:18):
political firestorm, so let'sthink back to COVID.
Okay, so we think back to COVID.
Okay, so we think back to COVID.
We think about a lot of theearly back and forth on how to
treat it.
Right, there was the way totreat it via one side, which was
vaccine, vaccine, vaccine.
And then there was the otherway to treat it, which was

(26:41):
hydrochloroquine and some ofthese other solutions to the
problem.
Right, one side was vilified,one side was not.
This is in 2020.
So I, for my rheumatoidarthritis, was prescribed
hydrochloroquine.
I'm like, oh, this isinteresting Because, again,

(27:01):
we've talked about identity.
One of the things I love to doand where some of my identity
lies is running.
So the first thing I do is hey.
So I'm feeling like I'velistened to all of these people
talk about you know, I know,again, hydrochloric was a Rogan
thing and they talked about likehow it's one of the most
utilized drugs in the world andit's gone through all of this

(27:22):
and that and the other thing andit's super safe.
So I asked Chad GBT, I said,give me the top 20 safest drugs
available.
And it didn't make the list.
And I'm like, well, that'sweird.
And I said, what abouthydrochloroquine?
And it kind of gives me thisresponse and it mentions you
know, it can affect your heartrhythm in a negative manner.
So as an endurance athlete, Iwould recommend against this and

(27:46):
look for other solutions toyour rheumatoid arthritis.
I'm like, well, that's strange.
And I said, well, whatpercentage of patients with
rheumatoid arthritis experiencethese issues?
And I ask it to give me andthis is what gives me the

(28:07):
results, I said, and theymentioned COVID in these results
, and they said that 10% ofpeople who took this for COVID
had an issue with their heart.
Well, as you can imagine, likeyo, you don't take a 10% risk,
like not even close.
And so I'm like, goodness, well, this has to be what informed

(28:30):
the broader recommendation forme not to touch it.
But then I ask it about RA Overa five-year period that
patients were tested, do youknow what percent experienced
this 0.08.
Tested, do you know what percentexperienced this?
0.08.
So what it had done potentiallyand you know there was a lot of

(28:56):
this when it was in its infancyaround the way it would respond
to certain questions and theway it would respond to certain
problems leaned a particular way.
Potentially and I'm not sayingthis is the case, but because it
wanted to painthydrochloroquine in this
negative light, saying, hey, itcauses this problem.
That's why you shouldn't takeit.
You should take this Damn nearsent me down an absolute rabbit
hole of panic attack.

(29:16):
We're talking orders ofmagnitude difference.
So that's another thing with AIis we always have to think
about what the underlyinginformation is that's going into
it yeah and ai.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
One of the things that they talk about on ai is
they call them hallucinations.
Ai is not good at saying Idon't know.
It is really good at makingstuff up if it doesn't have the
answer.
So it will blatantly make upanswers, and that's one of the
huge problems right now with it,that they haven't fully figured
out yet.
It doesn't know when to say Idon't know or express a level of

(29:51):
confidence with an answer, andso the challenge with that is,
even if 99 out of 100 answers iscorrect or 99, you know 9 or 99
of 1000, not knowing which onethat is is very problematic.
So that's why knowing enoughabout a subject and a topic area
to be able to discern theaccuracy is extremely important.

(30:12):
Because if I told you here's athousand pills and one of them
is going to kill you or what youknow, obviously having a wrong
answer isn't necessarily thatsevere, but when it gets to
health there could it could be alot more severe than people
perceive.
That's problematic.
I'm probably not taking any ofthose pills, so I think that is
something that's going to.
But what I?
Just to comment on that morebroadly and some of the things

(30:33):
that you were saying prior, thisis a lot of the beauty of just
learning.
This is learning how to use it,that you can change the tone,
that you just have to worryabout.
Think about how to prompt itdifferently.
Like these are all thelearnings that are so important
because, as it advances andthere are fewer or less
hallucinations or gosh, if theyfigure that problem out
altogether or it can do you knowmore sophisticated things.

(30:55):
You're ready to engage withthat and take advantage of that,
versus learning all thesethings you know once it gets
there.

Speaker 2 (31:01):
I have a really interesting one that I love your
perspective on from a societalstandpoint.
So this is probably a couple ofweeks ago.
So my middle daughter is mychallenge.
We've talked about my historyand I think that she is going to
, like they say, like yourparents always tell you, I hope
you have one of your own.
In a lot of ways, she is ahandful and she figured out how

(31:26):
to create her own YouTubechannel and not tell us.
And she started uploading allof this stuff to her YouTube
channel and we had no idea untilsomebody told us.
But she wanted to go live, likethat's what she wanted to do,
and you need to have a certainnumber of subscribers on YouTube
to be able to go live.
And we obviously found outabout this, blocked everything,
shut it down, like what are youdoing?

(31:47):
And she then tells me thatthere is this app I do not know
what it is called.
I'm sure we can look it up andthrow a link or whatever but it
allows you to go live to an AIaudience.
So you as a kid and I've seenthese news stories I believe
there's an AI friend, if youwill, out there that has

(32:10):
convinced at least a singleperson to commit suicide, like
has encouraged suicidal typebehavior.
I've heard about that.
You heard about that story,yeah, you know, and so I really
wonder like that to me.
I mean, you know we talked in aprior episode about the

(32:31):
shifting of appreciation ofskill sets that are not, at
least currently, within thecapacity of artificial
intelligence.
I wonder how you guys feelabout something like that.
That.
Can really you talk aboutInstagram filters today,

(32:57):
altering people's perceptions ofwhat's real?
If you're able to go live to10,000 people like I, I just
can't you think about whathappens to.
I think in an episode a coupleof weeks ago or months ago, we
talked about child stars andlike the massive fall from grace
because they're used to this.
So I just like your, your kindof input and your thoughts on

(33:17):
that.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Well, I there's a couple of things I want to go
back to.
You talked about Gosh dang.
I lost my train of thought.
You want to go ahead.
I was just going to say I thinkit's dangerous.
I mean, I think it's extremelydangerous.
It goes back to Trent's questionWill AI be abused?
Absolutely it will be.
It'll be abused and overusedand everything that is.

(33:44):
You know, any new type oftechnology is used toxically.
I mean, look at Facebook.
Facebook, when it first cameout, was a very good like.
It was a good thing way to stayconnected to people.
There are a lot of goodfundamentals about that and
people just find a way tocapitalize on things for
financial reasons, for otheregotistical reasons.
There's a lot of toxic humanneeds and innate things that we

(34:06):
have built into us that willresult in people.
I mean, there are billions ofpeople out there, so some
percentage of them whichunfortunately, even a very small
percentage, is a very largenumber of people will do things
that just feed them, eitherfinancially, egotistically or in
other some sick sort of way.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
I remember.

(34:26):
What I wanted to go back to isaccuracy.
Do you feel like accuracy isany less different than a Google
search.
I mean, I think you do have tobe careful how you prompt and
what you prompt about, like yourhealth.
You should always consult adoctor or a physician.
You should get a second opinion.
But people have beenself-diagnosing on WebMD and all

(34:47):
kinds of information out thereand there is a lot of
contradiction, especially inhealth.
Do you feel like the accuracyis much different than any of
the other resources out there?
I don't think it's about theaccuracy, it's about people's
perception of the accuracy.
I think that's where theproblem is, because if I go to
some random guy on the streetand I say, hey, what do you
think about implementing AI in abusiness, right?

(35:08):
And he says some things I'mgoing to be like okay and it's
going to go one way or the other, I may consider it a little bit
based on his experience.
But I think, because chat GPTis so impressive in so many ways
and so sophisticated and, as Ithink people are giving it a
very, their expectations of thequality of the answers are
extremely, extremely high, andso that's what makes it so

(35:29):
dangerous when it gets it wrongis because people run with it.
It's like no information isbetter than bad information.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Well, yeah, because I mean, if you look at the way
that computers have evolved, youknow initially they were doing
it was very concrete, veryconcrete things right, so it was
doing calculations.
Computations, computationsessentially, and then I think
the way we've always perceivedthe internet is a little softer.
Right, it was this differentthing.

(35:56):
It was more an amalgamation ofinformation and societal
perspectives and things likethat and societal perspectives
and things like that, where theway chat, gpt or other front
ends Grok, it's presented like a, in a way where it feels more
like a calculator.
Right, you input this thinginto here and it spits you back
out.
This result versus, you know,in large part on the internet

(36:19):
today, you're well, some peopleare, some people aren't.
But if you're looking for theright perspective, you're kind
of cobbling that togetheryourself and you're well, some
people are, some people aren't.
But if you're looking for theright perspective, you're kind
of cobbling that togetheryourself and you're exploring
different areas.
So-.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
I mean in their defense, they've done a good job
putting more disclosures onsome of the answers, but the
reality is people just have atendency to ignore it.
And if a chat GPT has impressedme, like it's impressed you
guys, and we've just been blownaway by the quality of the
answers, you were at a positionwhere you were ready to run with
that answer because it had notfailed you in a meaningful way

(36:55):
up until that point.
Yeah, I would be curious yourguys' thoughts on so there are
some critical.
I think you put some good holesin.
But on day-to-day you're asking,you have a dozen, I don't know
how many questions you're askinga day, but going week or four,
I'm sorry, one month or fourweek plan and three meals a day,

(37:27):
based on the Mediterranean diet, and it literally went through
and planned out 30 days, everysingle meal, every single
measurement of.
So, like you, we, we had a mealplan that was based to X diet.
Within two seconds.
Another thing that we used itfor was like create a scavenger
hunt for, you know, kids thisage with this theme and boom, it

(37:49):
would give you all the prompts,like from a creative standpoint
and some of those things thatyou know we could spend hours
and hours upon.
Do you guys have any otherexamples the way you've used it
to maybe solve some problems?

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Well, here's where I think that it goes and here's
where I think it gets more.
I think the problem with it nowand this will go into the
answer to your question is that,for all instances, the popular
AI models right now are generic.
They don't do, they're notspecific to something.
So I'll think of two areaswhere you mentioned the

(38:22):
Mediterranean diet.
So I look at like, how specificapps with very specific
purposes and very specificvisions for things implement AI,
and I'm going to start withthis one right here, and you
know it turn eyes in the waythat Todd has implemented AI in
the application itself and Iguess I'll let him kind of
expound on it.
But you know it's done with aspecific context and with a

(38:47):
specific vision in mind, so thatyou're getting it's kind of
it's kind of been pre-prompted,if you will, so that you're
getting, um, a more thoughtfulresponse than you know.
The reason that came to mindwas because, um, you, you
mentioned the Mediterranean dietand I think we're seeing some
fitness and nutrition apps outthere utilize it to one of the

(39:09):
coolest one, and I can'tremember the name of there's.
Actually, you mentioned theMediterranean diet and I think
we're seeing some fitness andnutrition apps out there.
Utilize it to one of thecoolest one and I can't remember
the name of there's actuallythree or four that do this where
you can take a picture of yourmeal and it can roughly estimate
the calories.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
That's incredible.
Well you can shoot cute QRcodes now.
Well, you've been able to dothat.
No, I mean, you can actuallytake a picture of the meal, the
food itself, and it can estimateroughly like oh, that's
incredible.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Hey, we took a picture of a dessert the other
day and it estimated it at 1200calories and it was like 1350.
So like within margin of error,but that's a very specific
application within a very youknow you chat, gpt is probably
not going, they're not going tospend the time required to get
you that quality.
So like the scavenger huntthing makes sense.

(39:50):
But like I'd like to again goback to having you kind of
explain the way that you'veimplemented it with Eternize and
that's the way that I see itbeing used on a daily basis is
through these other apps thatdeliver the experience more
thoughtfully.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
What I think TJ is hitting on.
That, I think, is important,and we just talked about this
recently.
I think the other aspect ofwinning with chat GPT is
starting with a problem andconsidering chat GPT as a
potential solution to help solvethat problem.
What a lot of people are doingright now is they're taking chat
GPT as an answer and they'regoing and looking for a problem
to solve.
To me, that's a reallybackwards way to think about it
and it's going to end poorly.

(40:27):
So in each and every one of thethings that you can do with
your cross is you can sendprayers to other people anywhere
in the world that you'reconnected with on your cross,
that have a connection, and Iknow a lot of times you have
people that are dealing withparticular things.
You're sending them a prayerbecause they're going through
something right.
They're going through some sortof injury or pain or heartache

(40:48):
or depression or you knowsomething, and some may be less,
more trivial than others, but alot of times I found myself
wanting to draw on scripture,right, someone who has some sort
of spiritual orientation seesscripture as inspirational.
So the way we program this iswhen you're going to send
someone a prayer, you can clicka button that says find relevant
scripture and you can put inwhatever topic you want five

(41:09):
words or less, just a shorttopic of like fear or anxiety or
stress or death or whatever andit will pull back the top five
scripture verses and you caneven say try again if you don't
like those and it'll go get fivemore, but the scripture verses
that tie.
That you can then send to thatperson with that prayer, which,
again, that was an approach thatwe took because we had a

(41:31):
problem that we were looking tosolve.
How can we make it very easyfor someone to provide something
very relevant and inspiring toanother community connection and
that's where I've seen it usedmost successfully is people
having a problem and thenlooking at it as a solution.
I will go through just a coupleof things that I've used it for
Kids.
Kids are bored.
Kids are bored at the house.

(41:53):
They were off school for liketwo days for parent-teacher
conferences.
What are some activities thatthey could do?
Whole list of things that theycould do kept the kids busy.
Another one was healthy mealideas for kids.
So I'd mentioned we're doingthe four meals in a previous
podcast and it helped with someideas there, the quarterly trips
, the day trips hey, what aresome good ideas for a father-son

(42:15):
, you know, one-on-one trip, soI think, just things that you
would normally have to spend alot of brainpower solving.
This isn't going to give you theperfect answer.
It's not going to give you theright thing.
The more you know how to promptit and the more information you
give it and the more you knowhow to engage with it, the
better the answers will be.
And it's still going to, atleast at this point, take a

(42:36):
little bit of refinement.
But those are some of the ideas.
I will say this is not a shocker, but my boys have started to
set goals and one of them forOliver was soccer goals.
Now he's eight years old andlike, what kind of soccer goals
do you set that's good for aneight-year-old?
Well, I went to chat to BT hey,what are some soccer goals that
uh, uh I shouldn't say goals,uh, relating to soccer, that you
know would be appropriate foran eight-year-old?

(42:57):
That gave us a grade of ideasand we could choose from that.
So I just think there's anendless number of use cases, of
just problems, questions,challenges that we face on a
daily basis and our instinct isto try and think through them
and solve them and be you knowwhen.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
It's a wonderful starting point I like the way
and I think it's going to beused a lot.
You know, like the way youtalked about the sop um, one of
the things that I'll be using itfor.
So I'm working with a brand new, taking a brand new approach to
some influencer work.
We're doing with one of theproducts that we've produced and
I will have it write thecontract.
Like it's just, you know, andwe can spot check it, but like

(43:34):
those types of things that wouldhave been a paralegal's job or
you know, I think that those arethe types of things and you
know, I look, the differentstuff that I've used before.
Like I said, a lot of it'shealth.
I mean, I used it as recentlyas yesterday, you know health
stuff.
I had it extrapolate and, again, these are things you could
probably do pretty easilyyourself, but it makes it 10
times easier.
I needed, you know, we have Xnumber of people signed up for

(43:57):
this race, but I need to have aminimum order quantity of the
shirts.
It's almost double that number.
So I needed to extrapolate outwhat the shirt sizes would be
based on the percentage of theshirts.
And you know, of course I couldhave figured that out Right.
The math's not hard but it tookchat GPT seven seconds.
I just pasted in the this theyou know cells from the
spreadsheet and it was done.

(44:17):
So like those types of thingsfor me are really, it's really
beneficial in those where wherethere's a concrete output that's
generated, you know.

Speaker 1 (44:28):
Productivity.
I mean, we spent a lot of timeon that on the last episode and
I think what we're hearing is Istruggle with creativity, so a
lot of the things that you'vetalked about are similar to me.
I'm prompting it for differentideas for things, cause I'm like
what do we do or where shouldwe go, and I find that it really
helps from that standpoint.
But as we go through and we'reusing these different tools for

(44:50):
me, it's making me much moreproductive, right, and I feel
like I can be more thorough,which is something that I'm not.
I'm not as thorough, so I wouldrecommend and you guys, I would
love your opinion on this butspending 15, 20, 25 minutes
putting in normal things thatyou deal with.
If you're a homemaker, you'regoing to have challenges and

(45:12):
things what do I cook tonight,or what do I do this, or if you
work in a business, there arepersonal things that we talk
about every single day that wecan get some really good
information on.
Maybe health is one of thosekind of gray areas, but there's
some really good stuff out there.
Would you guys agree, becausewe've talked about the pros and
the cons and I'm kind of curiouswhere you land on it.

(45:33):
Should this be part ofsomeone's daily?
I don't want to call it a chore, but should this be part of
someone's daily life?
Yes, used in the right way andprompted in the right way.
100% should be used in dailylife and it's just a good
example of what we've talkedwith in prior episodes One,
being open-minded to it, rightOf doing things a different way,

(45:56):
and then, two, taking the timeto learn how to interact with it
.
It's not going to.
It's actually going to probablycost you time initially to
figure out how to use it.
It's not going to.
It not gonna.
Nothing's a magic.
You know it's not a magic wand,but you take the time that
could create the 30 minutes in aday, the extra 30 minutes that

(46:18):
you need to work out, or thatyou need to go sit in a sauna or
get a massage or whatever thatis, or a week or whatever.
100% it should be a part.
It's probably.
I use it probably two or threetimes a week and I should be
using it two or three times aday.
Frankly, I think people are.
My first reaction when I comeout is I know a lot people are
nervous where's my job gonna go?

(46:38):
What?
What am I gonna do?
Is this gonna take my job?
One of my partners is anattorney and I know even a lot
of what he is able to do becausehe's got legal software where
it can go out, depending on theproblem he has.
In the past he would have to gofind all the statutes and pull
them, and it actually goes andpulls the statutes that are

(47:00):
correlating to X case.
Now he still has to review andgo through it, but the hours of
pulling the information andresearch has really kind of
condensed it.
Where do you see?
Where do you see it?
But the hours of pulling theinformation, research has really
kind of condensed it.
Where do you see AI interfacingand how do you think it's going
to affect the current workforce?

Speaker 2 (47:22):
I think the most important thing is adopting it
and embracing it and learningabout it.
And you're going to figure out.
You know, one of the uniquethings about me is the last few
positions that I've heldprofessionally.
I have developed myself, so Ijust kind of get hired and kind
of figure it out.
And I think that's going tohave to happen with this.
And the less you know about it,the less you're willing to
embrace it, the more difficultit's going to be to figure out
where you can best complementyour skill set with what it

(47:46):
offers you.
So I don't know where it'sgoing to go from here.
I think certain things, like youknow, like you just said, I
think if that from a legalperspective, the trajectory
continues there, I think the bargets set a ton higher If you as
a judge or you as a jury or youas someone else.

(48:08):
Higher.
If you as a judge or you as ajury or you as someone else
understands that now all ofthese statutes are there at your
fingertips and it's much easierto get them, maybe the burden
of proof gets raised.
You know, again, I'm kind ofspeaking outside of my area of
expertise, so excuse me ifthat's completely incorrect.
But point being is, you know,when you talk about creativity

(48:31):
and maybe you're trying to comeup with a tagline for something,
and in the past it was reallyvalued when a creative person
could give you five or sixtaglines.
Well now chat GPT can give you70 and you can narrow that down
to the 10 you like.
You know that requires thatcreative person to.
You know that requires thatcreative person to maybe provide

(48:53):
value at a different layer,like, okay, it gave us this
foundation Now.
So you know that part of my jobwhich can because it's the most
subjective part can oftentimesbe the most difficult to get
agreement on.
I know when you guys wentthrough rebranding, that was

(49:14):
really difficult with the logoand the.
But once that's established andyou've kind of come to an
agreement there, then taking itand to the next level up and
disseminating it out across thedifferent elements that you have
in play that are front-facingfor your business is easier.

(49:36):
So maybe they lose that part.
But that's great.
They don't have to have hoursand hours of meetings.
But if you're not up to speedon what it can do for you, then
you don't know how you're goingto be able to utilize it to your
benefit or how you're going tobe able to integrate with its
capabilities.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
I think you're going to see it impact the workforce
in a couple of different ways.
I think initially you'reprobably going to see it impact
the workforce in some toxic ways, and what I mean by that is
you're going to see leadersstart to devalue people.
They're going to see anopportunity to replace a hundred
or $150,000 employee withthings coming straight from chat
GPT.
And I think that pendulum willswing back over time because I

(50:18):
think people will slowly realizethat the quality of what's
coming out chat GPT isn'tproviding the return and it
doesn't have the intelligence,at least at this point, to
incorporate some of the nuancesand other things to have high
quality recommendations.
So I I see some business ownersabusing it and using it as an

(50:39):
opportunity to over swing thependulum too far.
But I what I just searched iswhat are the 10 things chat gpt
is not good at?
because I think that you typethat in chat, gpt, yeah, I took
it in chat gpt and it said chatgpt is not good at Because I
think that ultimately but youtyped that in chat GPT.
Yeah, I typed it in chat GPTand it said chat GPT is great
for many things, but it doeshave limitations.
Real-time or up-to-minuteinformation it's not good at
Deep domain-specific expertise,provides general insights, but

(51:00):
lacks the depth of specialistsin fields like law, medicine,
engineering, creativity withstrict constraints, complex

(51:23):
reasoning over long context,mathematical proofs and
multi-step calculations,sensitive or ethical issues't.
I think there the one thingthat I didn't see.
There is relationships, rightthat I think.
While it can navigate some ofthat, I don't know, you know so
businesses that are based onrelationships I don't know that
there's going to be a lot goingon there, but in terms of job

(51:43):
responsibilities, at least inthe next few decades or a couple
of decades, but jobresponsibilities that have a
predictable nature to them, Ithink over time, depending on
the appetite of the businessowner, could start to shift.
But I think the other thing thatyou have to think about that, I
think, is why some of thisstuff takes longer to adopt is

(52:06):
customers don't want to call andtalk to AI.
They don't like AI.
Verbal, verbal kind of dialogueis going to have to get much
better for people to not to beable to discern that because
You've got the automatedresponse systems and people
don't like that.
So there's going to be aresistance from your general

(52:27):
consumer.
That, I think, is going topreserve a lot of jobs and
employment in the short termbecause of those hesitations.
Now, that certainly changesover time, but I remember this
was probably a decade ago whenZuckerberg was talking about
there may be a point in ourlifetimes where there is a uh,
what do they call that?

(52:47):
where basically everyone getsmoney like they um, uh, it's uh
something like a stipend,essentially like basically,
everyone will get a stipendincome something basic income.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
I'll think of it ubi.
Universal basic income, yes.
Universal basic income yesuniversal basic income.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
So we're basically because things are so efficient
and there's so much money beingcirculated and that we'll all
kind of get universal basicincome to where we can survive,
and then there's opportunitiesto earn revenue in different
ways.
But, at the end of the day,what this does in my mind, if
you look at the workforce, itencourages learning and it

(53:27):
probably amplifies and magnifiesand multiplies the value for
the people who take the time tolearn and continue to grow and
develop in the face of this growaround this grow to supplement
this.
Those people who are able totake the time to navigate that
and spend that time developing.
I think they're going to be thewinners.
One of the things that I heardAI will not replace your job.

(53:51):
Somebody using AI might.
It's just going to make peoplemuch more efficient, much more
productive, to really embrace it.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
I have another twist on this unless you got something
, no go ahead.
We're talking about this.
There's kind of two differentareas.
I want to talk about One.
I want to talk aboutspecifically businesses and how
they could use it, especiallysmall businesses, because
they're generally strugglingfrom a resource standpoint and
they lack people.
So I want to go into that realm.
The other realm I want to talkabout is education for kids now

(54:23):
and where the jobs and how wesee that evolving and how that's
going to be a little bit moreout there.
So maybe first we go tobusiness, let's touch a couple
of those and then we'll go backto current education system and
how to blend that in.
Well, I'll speak from a coupleof different experiences I've
had.
I'm a entrepreneur.

(54:44):
I've got one business that I ambasically just starting.
It's TJ and I and some others,dakota and a few advisors that
are helping pull this together,and so it's very scrappy and I
would say, you know, for me,using that as a starting point

(55:04):
as much as possible is just ahuge, huge time saver, and I
talked a little bit about thisearly on.
I won't go through all thatagain, but I think using it to
spawn ideas, develop plans, askfor recommendations, marketing
ideas there's a lot of plansthat you need to put together

(55:26):
when you're starting a company.
It's like and things you don'tknow.
You don't know Like I've usedit for product specifications,
how should I test this product,or how should I market this
product, or hey, and again, thisis like an art right Of
interacting.
A lot of this for the coachingfor small business owners is
just get in there and playaround and learn.

(55:46):
You know you might get some.
You'll get some good things,you'll get some bad things, but
the learning I just can'tunderstate the value there.
And then you know, from an IMGperspective, more established
businesses I would just reallyencourage just stick to the
fundamentals.
Stick to the fundamentals andhelp your teams learn and

(56:06):
understand how to engage withthis.
Run competitions, you know,within your team.
If you have a team of like whocan come up with the best
prompts or how to use it,incentivize them to get in there
and use that.
Uh, teach them, guide them,coach on hey, here are the
things you can use it for, cause, honestly, it's a very
intimidating tool.
That's what I've found with alot of people.
It's like, you know, I thinkwe're all naturally a little bit

(56:29):
early adopters by nature, soit's like hey, let's go in there
and type around.
For a lot of people it's likeWhoa, like this is this whole
big, huge thing.
I don't know what to do or whatto type here, and so I think,
just getting in and mixing it up, breaking down some of those
barriers, that's what I wouldsay on the topic.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
What would you add I'll go kind of education on
this you just-.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Are you going to switch to the whole education in
general?

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Can I-?
Yeah, go ahead.
Let me jump in with a few ofmine.
So for small businesses, Iwould definitely say ads,
marketing, like hey, I own thistype of business.
What are some differentstrategies?
I was working with a companythat you know prompted some
stuff and it gave them like thetop seven things you should be
doing from a marketingstandpoint to gain a customer

(57:13):
base.
And then it said, okay, well,help me create you know all the
social media posts for the nextyou know 30 days, and it created
the social media posts so youcan use it to help you advertise
in a meaningful way.
It can create ads, it cancreate specific ads to your
industry and it will save you anincredible amount of time and

(57:35):
you obviously have the abilityto tweak anything.
But marketing was a really bigone.
I was talking to someone theother day that's actually
building similar to what we'redoing, where they're setting it
up to be able to review deals sothey'll be able to take
financials, plug, just drop thefinancials in there and it'll
know how to analyze a deal todecide which one of like.

(57:56):
They have 13 deals and theywant to find out which is the
best one and they have to putthe parameters in there, but
it's going to be able to analyzefinancials.
So that's probably going totake a little bit more and it's
probably not just your standardGPT chat, gpt prompting, so
that's another one.
Another thing we're looking atis video how to put video in.
We haven't used any of this yet, but one of the really cool

(58:18):
softwares is Hygen is one ofthem and you can create, you can
upload a video of yourself,like if I had a two minute video
of me talking about something,and it takes your mannerisms and
your voice and your image andthen, once it has it, you can go
in and type in a paragraph andit'll talk that paragraph just

(58:38):
like you, which is somewhatscary.
They said you should starthaving code words in your family
to people actually know it'syou that that software is out
there and maybe you should starthaving code words in your
family to people actually knowit's you that that software is
out there and maybe you don'twant your image out there.
But if you're in a businessthat talks to people a lot or
you're doing webinars andseminars, once you've done that
and you can recreate that easily, that's another advantage,
probably a little bit moresophisticated Copilot was, is

(59:02):
Microsoft's version.
I know Excel I'm not good eitheron the Excel things but now you
can type in a prompt like takeall this data and create a table
.
You can literally type it outin paragraph form, which is
really cool.
So I think there's a lot ofpractical uses.
Finance I think marketing isprobably the one that there's
the most opportunity thereversus hiring a firm, cause it

(59:23):
can do logos, it can do some ofthat other stuff.
So I would encourage you, ifyou have a small business, to
get in there and play aroundwith it.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Yeah, I would say that too.
I would encourage you to playaround with it.
I would push back on themarketing side of things because
I'm interested to see how thisplays out Specifically.
We look at like, uh, each andeyes.
You know, we have a veryinteresting target market and
the target market we have isvery specific to Todd and our
group of advisors and the peoplethat surround them.

(59:53):
So we understand at a verynuanced level, based on daily
interactions with people likethis, who we are targeting, and
I've seen people and I'm justI'm not saying it's good, right,
wrong or indifferent, but youknow, I um mentioned something.
I mentioned, uh, corey earlierand I know he utilizes it and I
wonder if, from a marketingperspective, and it's like okay

(01:00:14):
to grow my Instagram account,how many posts do I need to have
a week?
Um, what are these?
So it like builds out um, Imean, you can kind of see where
I'm going with this right, itbuilds the post, it builds the
schedule, it pulls the hashtags,all of these things.
I wonder if it's going to beperceived and I don't know this

(01:00:36):
yet same with the logos that itcreates, if it's going to end up
being like the scarlet letter,like you're gonna recognize oh,
this is AI doing this versus oh.
Because I think with marketingyou're doing your best to convey

(01:00:59):
your vision and the passion youhave for whatever it is you're
delivering to that person, likethat's the goal.
I want my verbiage to be aspecific way the way the
sentences are structured, theway that the images are laid out
, the emotion that it pushesforward or that it pulls from
the consumer.

(01:01:19):
You want this in a veryspecific manner and I wonder if,
based on what ChatGPT saidabout itself, I wonder if it
will come across too cold.
So I do agree with play aroundand get out of it what you can,
because that was going to be mycommentary.
I know I tried to jump toeducation a little bit too
quickly there, but my commentarywas good.

(01:01:40):
I've used what you're talkingabout.
So we have to train thousandsof people in my organization.
So we have used that.
We've used similar softwarewhere you just type it in and
then this avatar of myself orone of my coworkers speaks to
people.
Again, it gets the job done andif it's not an area that you

(01:02:02):
have the money to hire for, itgets the job done, and if it's
not an area that you have themoney to hire for or not, an
area of expertise.
We've used it as kind of afiller, because there are other
levels, other levers we pull toget sales associates to engage
Would you say that differs basedon company size, because I'm
focusing on small business, whoare probably less than 10

(01:02:24):
employees.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
We're small too, though I would say starting
point again, it's not that it'sjust not going to come off hot
off the press, ready to go athigh quality.
I think, brainstorming startingpoint.
The other thing I would say,maybe to just put a pin in this,
is ask ChatGPT, tell them whatyour small business is and ask
it what you should use it for.
It'd be interesting what theresponse would be I think it's a

(01:02:47):
great compliment.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Like you said, if you've got 10 people and you
have 10, you have 10 thingsthey're great at and 40 things
they're not.
And if you can use it for those40 things, you use it for those
40 things.
That that would be.
You know, if you figure out youcan do that, that I would.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
I would agree with it's pretty remarkable when
we've even gone in and we knowat IMG the best ways to scale
the agency and we go in and say,well, what's the top ways to
scale an independent agency?
And it comes back and after atwo-day session of our
leadership team it pretty muchnailed it of like these are the
things.
Then it's like okay, well,verticals is a big thing, create
a vertical.
So if create a vertical, sowe're going to create a vertical

(01:03:30):
on X.
What are some of the points?
And like it, I think, to yourpoint.
It doesn't get you all the waythere, but it sure as heck gives
you a lot of data to get useven closer and I found it to be
relatively accurate, I think inyour larger marketing schemes
emotional maybe, but if you'rejust trying to get some basic
information out the door, Ithink it can be really powerful.
It could save a lot of time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
If you're an organization, that, if you're an
influencer, right, there's noway in hell you want it doing
that, you know, like if that'swhere you're bread and butter.
But if you're somebody like a,like an insurance agency, where
a lot, in a lot of instances,social media is kind of checking
the box or at least certainsocial media platforms you

(01:04:04):
Instagram may just be checkingthe box.
Let's make sure we get a postout to keep it consistent and
provide an opportunity for openengagement with our customer
base.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
But you don't think influencers are using AI for?

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
a hundred percent they are, but I'm saying like
you don't want to use if you'rean Instagram model or whatever,
so not an Instagram model.
So, uh, I you know.
You know that, um, I happen tohave a relationship where my
boss's wife is a very successfulinfluencer, um, with over

(01:04:39):
somewhere in the neighborhood of10 million followers.
But she has built perspectiveon her audience and her two main
platforms, especially now it'smore Instagram, maybe a little
bit of TikTok, but she haslearned who her audience is over
10 years.
So she's not going to askChatGPT to plan out her posts

(01:05:00):
and what the content needs to be.
She's learned that over time.
I think if you're maybe a brandnew influencer and you're a
YouTuber and you need to doInstagram maybe, then you ask it
and it compliments you in thatregard.
But I think it's just this pushand pull as it relates to what
your experience is and whereyou're at in the life cycle of
whatever it is you're growing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
I mean, I think what you're saying is be careful
outsourcing your core competencyto chat GPT yeah, the thing
that is your differentiator, orthe thing that is like your
bread and butter that just becareful using it as much more
than a brainstorming tool,because the temptation will be
there to take it and run with it, because we're all looking to

(01:05:40):
get done with it quickly.
So I think the cautions arelegitimate, especially as it
relates to things that arereally unique aspects of your
business.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Yeah, it'll just be interesting to see how it
unfolds, right?
Because, at the basis of all ofthis, one of the things it's
not great at is relationships,and you get patronage for
relationships.
People work with your companybecause of the relationships
you've built with them.
At is relationships, and youknow you get patronage for
relationships.
You know people work with yourcompany because of the
relationships you've built withthem.
People go to restaurantsbecause of the way they're
treated Like you're the world'sbiggest consumer of first watch,

(01:06:15):
because of the way they treatyou like your family there, and
so when it comes to those typesof things that it's not good at,
that it may not understand.
It's going to be interesting tosee how it gets implemented, uh,
when it needs to.
You know, if we talk about, ifwe talk about implementing it in

(01:06:35):
social media, one of the bigthings is just authentic
engagement.
You know, um and and YouTubers,especially younger ones, we see
this now ourselves.
We see this now ourselves.
We are small enough that we'rereading comments and that's
informing how we do things, andwe wouldn't get any of that
information or any of thatfeedback.

(01:06:56):
I wouldn't think if we wereoverly generic with what we were
putting out there, justchecking the box.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Education.
Yeah, I think that's a goodpivot to education.
So, from an educationalstandpoint, we have kids.
Where chat gbt is now they saidin the next six months they're
gonna it's probably gonnacontinue to double I think we're
at 4.5 right now, just to givecontext but that it's gonna
accelerate.
We have our kids, most of them,in traditional schools, getting

(01:07:24):
a traditional education.
There's obviously specialtiesout there, there's homeschooling
, there's a lot of differentoptions, but you know, one of
the things I remember goingthrough as a student was
memorizing things and there'sjust a lot of stuff in there
that you don't really need to doanymore.
And so how do you think ourcurrent education needs to pivot

(01:07:46):
, if at all, in order to get ourkids ready to be able to use
these tools because they'regoing to be prevalent in most
jobs in every context?

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
I'm going to let you go because I'm going to get
wildly existential with myresponse.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
My response to that is the education system is
already a few decades behind,and that's no fault of any
teachers.
I mean, it's one of the mostwonderful professions.
It's just such a massive systemand it is so hard to move
entities and systems that arethat large and have that much

(01:08:25):
regulation around them.
For understandable reasons,because it's super important to
get kids educated, and so thereare these minimum standards and
it's extremely complex.
I think.
To answer your question briefly, yes, ai is going to call for
substantial amounts of reform tothe educational system and

(01:08:46):
that's probably going to happenfairly slowly.
I mean, when we look at theeducational system now, my
opinion of the educationalsystem is largely for two
purposes, maybe three.
One, it's to teach problemsolving purposes maybe three.

(01:09:07):
One it's to teach problemsolving there's all kinds of
problems being solved and second, it's a test of discipline, and
the people that come out ofhigh schools and colleges with
high-end GPAs when they go intothe workforce they don't know
how to do the job.
They don't have all theinformation to do the job.
What the company knows is thatthey have some amount of

(01:09:27):
intellectual capability to dothe job and they have enough
discipline to stay focused on it, because that's part of the
challenge of the educationalsystem, is the beauty of it that
you've got to work through, youknow, challenging teachers,
challenging assignments,different subjects, that sort of
thing and if you have thediscipline to keep your head

(01:09:47):
down and work through that,that's the quality that
companies are valuing.
It's not necessarily theknowledge.
Now you're learning a goodamount, particularly as you're
majoring in a particular area,and it's a good foundation.
But a lot of people going intocompanies are blowing up what
they learned educationally andthey're reteaching a certain
industry, particularly if it's,you know, someone who is a

(01:10:09):
leading edge company, becauseit's been so difficult for the
education system to keep up withthat sort of thing.
So, to answer your question,yes, I think it's going to call
for massive transformation ofour educational system.
I just don't know how quicklyit can happen Before you go.
Do you believe that AI should bepart of the current educational

(01:10:29):
system and, if so, at what ageshould it start being introduced
?
Well, a couple things.
I think AI should start beingused yesterday to develop
educational curriculums.
Now, how they're teaching AIlike look when I say it's
decades behind.
They should be teaching.
There should be a class onGoogle.

(01:10:50):
There should have been for thelast 20 years.
There should have been a classon how to Google stuff, like I
can't tell you how many peoplethat I interact with on a
regular basis and they havequestions.
They do not go to Google, theyjust don't, they assume the
answer is not accessible.
You know, I can't tell you howmany times I've said did you ask
Google?
Did you go to Googleprofessionally and otherwise?
Like no, I didn't think of that.
So, like educationally, some ofthose that's what I mean it's
behind like, fundamentally,should they have been teaching

(01:11:12):
people how to Google and what totype in and how to interact?
I mean, there is, that is anentire art and science, and now
it's the same type of thing withchat, gpt.
So should there be a class onhow to engage with AI?
Yes, there should be a class,but to me, that's the very, very
minute part where I think AIshould be informing the
educational system is what sortof characteristics and skills

(01:11:35):
are going to have long-termvalue propositions.
And then, secondly, ai needs tobe used to develop those
curriculums, because that'sprobably what's going to allow
us to change, and change in arapid enough way to start to
keep up with things.

(01:11:55):
It's my opinion.
Do you think there's any dangerin getting kids access to that
at younger ages?
Yes yes, I think anything wetalked about this with YouTube
videos, I think anything thatthey don't fully understand and
don't have context for is superdangerous because they're not
going to, they're definitely notgoing to be able to distinguish
a wrong answer from a right one.

(01:12:16):
And if they have access to now,there, there will be apps that
come out, just like the internet, that can boil it down and can
make it safe.
1000%.
You wouldn't give, you wouldn'tprobably lock a kid in a room
with a, with a you know someoneunder X years of age, with a
YouTube and just go searchwhatever you want.
I mean cause that's, they couldask whatever they want.

(01:12:37):
But is there a way?
An app will come out soon.
It'll be a kid's GPT andthey'll be able to interact with
it in a safe manner, and Iwould say all for it, absolutely
.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Yeah, I mean I'll get to the second part of my answer
here, but I think the couplethings that come to mind is you
talk about you need to build afoundation, because critical
thinking, problem solving youmentioned some of those things.
I think those are things thatwe have the luxury of having
gone through and societalengagement.
I think those are things thatthe school system can foster.

(01:13:12):
You know, just by the nature ofit, in school you are forced to
engage with particular peopleand learn how to deal with
different people, differentpersonalities.
I think the fear for me, withAI becoming a tool I think it
definitely needs to be, but wehad the and I don't even know if
I'd call it good fortune,because I think you know, even

(01:13:35):
growing up, each of usespecially me saw the
shortcomings of the schoolsystem for certain personality
types, certain people.
That worked a certain way.
You know now, going throughthat difficult school system
helps you learn how to problemsolve.
But one of the things that Iguess we had the luxury of is it
built a foundation for us.
So now, when we engage withChatGPT, we can critically look

(01:13:57):
at the response.
And I knew well, wait, thisdoesn't make sense.
There's no way that my doctorwould have prescribed this for
me if it had a 10% chance ofgiving me heart arrhythmia.
So I could critically look andsay, oh, that doesn't make sense
, I need to dive a little bitdeeper and see.
But if you haven't gone throughthat, you haven't learned how

(01:14:20):
to critically think, or youlearned how to problem solve or
learned some of those otherfoundational skill sets, then I
think you can get into realtrouble, because there's no true
north Outside of the moralitythat your parents have instilled
in you and your values andthings like that.
There is no true north when itcomes to information.
So laying those foundationalthings, I think from an
educational perspective, isextremely important.
Where I'll get existential withthis.

(01:14:41):
And so I saw something veryinteresting and this just, I
wonder, about a thousand yearsfrom now.
So there was a podcast lastweek.
I can't remember who it was,but it was interviewing a lady
who deals with nonverbalchildren, autistic and other
things, cerebral palsy, forwhatever reason, they can't

(01:15:02):
communicate and they have proventhrough numerous studies that
they can communicate via mind.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
They can still think normally.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
And they can communicate to their parents or
other people they feel like.
Sit across the room I'm lookingat a Mountain Dew can and the
kid's behind a piece ofcardboard and can draw the
Mountain Dew can.
That I'm looking at like thatkind of communication, but what
they believe is that those areelements of the human brain that

(01:15:33):
were needed at some point intime, maybe when we didn't have
language to communicate, alanguage hadn't been developed
yet or way of communication.
And so I wonder, you know?
I think about this in thecontext of cursive.
My kids have learned it for fun.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
I think one of your daughters taught one of my kids
I only have one kid that canwrite cursive, so I know who
that is yeah, was it Eden it's.

Speaker 2 (01:15:55):
Hadley, yeah, so Hadley taught the girls how to
write cursive.
Yeah, um, but I think about youknow, in a thousand years from
now, when we don't.
I mean gosh, I know I'm liketalking like an onion and
stopping here and going here,but like, look at Google Maps.
20 years ago I could getanywhere in central Indiana from

(01:16:20):
my head.
For the most part there was acouple you know if I was going
to Muncie, bring out the big oldatlas.
but yeah, yeah, but if I wasgoing to muncie, you gave me one
or two um landmarks I could getto where I was going, or
anderson or marion or indy orcarmel, whatever.
Now there's times where I'mdriving home from the hair salon
and I pull up.
You know how do I get to myhouse?

(01:16:40):
Um, you know, I don'tnecessarily need it all the time
, but Of course you pull it upevery time because of traffic.
That's actually why.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
But still like Well, your guys' cars drive themselves
.
So I don't even know why you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
You can't.
But my point is like I wonderwhat else erodes and what
capacities we lose if we get toa point, because one of the and
this is where we can starthaving fun with this
conversation is singularity.
What happens when Neuralinkgets to the point where it's
just here, like you arecommunicating, it's just a chip

(01:17:16):
in your brain and it's got aninfinite amount of information?
I wonder.

Speaker 1 (01:17:21):
Kurzweil thinks that's going to be in the 2040s.
Well, I mean, who does RayKurzweil thinks that's going to
be in the 2040s?
Well, I mean, who does RayKurzweil?
He's a futurist.

Speaker 2 (01:17:29):
So, like you know, I think that's where we start to
have fun with, well, whathappens to us physiologically.
A lot of people think that, youknow, the typical alien that
you see represented is what weevolved to, because eventually
we don't need to use anythingbut our brains, because
everything is done by robots ormachinery, and so all of our,
you know, our compute is here,and you know that I mean, and

(01:17:52):
then, and then we can go.
I mean there's some fun rabbitholes with this conversation.
We can talk about the paperclipproblem and sentience.
Like you know, I mean I'velistened to plenty of podcasts
on that.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
I have no idea what that is.
So let me ask you this this isa good transition for that.
Should it be regulated?
I know one of the things in theCatholic circle and I know we
haven't really gotten much inspiritually in the last few
episodes, but one of the thingsthere is the human dignity and
the preservation of humandignity.
Should and if so at all, allshould it be regulated and how?

(01:18:25):
Other than?
I mean I think we all know thatlike hey, let's regulate it to
the point to where it doesn'ttake over the human species.
Right, there's been someconcerns about that and some
discussion of like they're gonnaget smarter than us, and then
they're gonna think, okay, howcan I do this?
Oh well, if I eradicate thisspecies?
I mean, there's like been someyeah, that Well aside from that,
I'm just curious what you guysthink about preserving human

(01:18:48):
dignity and keeping some sort ofpurpose ingrained in us to some
extent.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Well, I'm going to talk about that, so you go ahead
.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Well, I don't know if you actually lose purpose,
because the current society welive in and the things we I mean
, it's changed over 2,000 years.
So I would say there's someethical questions.
We have an app that we builtthat uses AI and it's a prayer
app and as you go through andyou put your prayers in and
you're doing some journaling,after about two weeks it sends

(01:19:19):
you what's called a story andthis story just kind of
articulates this whole journeyand what it's supposed to do is
show you how God has worked inyour life, because a lot of
times things you're praying fortwo, three, four weeks ago
aren't happening until two tothree to four weeks later.
And it creates this story andit's remarkable and it's like
are we crossing that line?

(01:19:40):
Like, should you use itspiritually?
What are the good ways?
To you know we should use anytool we can to create spiritual
awareness and to draw peoplecloser to God.
In my opinion, like I'll go asfar as using addiction to try to
get people addicted to prayer,but I don't know because if, at
the end of the day, I believewe're here for community and
relationships and I can't seewhere it replaces that.

(01:20:02):
So the soul, part of this, theconnection, and I'm going to say
it's soul and not brain, thesoul, part of this.
I'm not sure that that evergoes away.
I think there's going to be aninnate ability to connect with
people that's going to surpassNeuralink or anything, to where
we're always going to be drawn,to being part of a community, to
being involved, regardless ifwe need to go to school to learn

(01:20:25):
things, to provide income orwe're on UBI and we just become
social beings and creatures.
I just don't see that actuallyever leaving.
You don't think someone couldhave five AI friends that they
interact with.
I don't believe it would everprovide the same connection,
because I think connection isthere's one thing of like oh

(01:20:46):
well, people, I'm talking to anAI and it talks back, but like I
don't think you'll ever be ableto replicate, like if you ever
had one of them conversationsthat you go deep with someone
and it's just like it's superauthentic, it's super vulnerable
and you have a I would call ita soul connection.
I don't think that's I wouldcall it a soul connection.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
I don't think that's.
I think, though, we're losingthe ability as a humanity to
discern and I say that becauseof what I mentioned earlier,
with the person committedsuicide because their AI
convinced them to.
That's very, very powerful.
You know, because you're youknow, as we've talked about this
, I think, early on, wheresociety is separating further
and larger houses right, morecontained within a mile radius
of your Some are Some wheresociety is separating further

(01:21:23):
and larger houses right, morecontained within a mile radius
of your Some are.
Some are yeah Right, but like,for whatever reason and maybe
this is, let's call them theCOVID generation that was placed
in a position where during theformative years maybe it's
puberty they were separated fromeveryone else, or people that

(01:21:47):
were.
Maybe this is the detriment ofsocial media that we've heard so
much about, where early accessto social media changes the way
your brain is wired and that'swhat you look to for your
validation.
So where we didn't go up withthat, we look to relationships
and community in the physicalform for validation.
People are looking to digitalforms of validation and so for

(01:22:08):
us, where we get the dopaminehit or that deep soul connection
when we're having these, eventhese conversations, other
people may misconstrue that ormay or may have rewired
themselves to get that positivereinforcement from a digital
being.
And when you have a digitalbeing that reinforces all the
beliefs you have about yourself,it becomes this kind of false

(01:22:31):
idol.

Speaker 1 (01:22:32):
And it is echo chamber.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
It a hundred percent is, and I you know we can bring
it up, maybe next episode or orput it, but there have actually
been, very there have beennumerous situations, other than
the one that I've mentioned,where people have fallen deeply
in love or at least that's whatthey perceive with these

(01:22:55):
different AI models, becausethey're so lonely and because
they've never they were nevergiven that foundation and never
built around physicalrelationships.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
Yeah, if it gets to that, I'm moving to the farm.

Speaker 2 (01:23:13):
Well, I mean, think about it, we're already seeing
that, right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:16):
I mean, kids are now.
They've disengaged communallyand with friends and they're
spending time in their devices,right, and they don't know what
it was like to go to the malland hang out with their friends.
It's like either.
I mean, at least they'reinteracting with other human
beings on the other side ofthese digital devices in some
cases, but in other casesthey're just interacting with

(01:23:37):
these devices and that's thefulfillment.
They know to your point andthey can get used to that.
That'll feed you dopamine allday and I think take me back a
hundred years, though, when yourmain interaction was just your
family and you all worked on afarm and you worked together,
and that that was.
It wasn't about this you got tohave 50 friends, or you got to
be in these classes or do thesethings.
It was, you had six to eight toten kids, and they all worked

(01:24:01):
together, and that the community.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
I think you probably had a little bit more than that.
What did they say?
There's a number, I think it's150, 150 is is the is the
inflection point at which I'm.
I'm going to butcher this soI'm not going to go any further,
but there has.
There's something to do withthat being kind of the tipping
point for community size, whenit gets to be too large and then
starts to kind of collapse inon itself without the proper

(01:24:28):
structures in place from asocietal perspective.
But anyways, no, I mean, Ithink the difference between you
know, I think the differencebetween what we're talking about
and that is that now familiesmight have a single kid.
I don't think we're going tosee it as much because I think
we've realized somewhat of theerror of our ways.
I think there was a generationwhere it was like here you go,

(01:24:51):
peace, because they didn't knowwhat kind of damage that caused.
You call it the youngermillennials.

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
Now I think we're Smoking in the 60s, right?
They?

Speaker 2 (01:25:01):
didn't know Everyone smoked.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
I think your point on the human capability evolving
and us losing ability, I meanwe've seen that physically.
Think about physically.
We were machines, I mean theywere surviving, we were
hunter-gatherers.
I mean we talked about this alittle bit Walked to the.
West.
I mean we would walk likehundreds of miles.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
Our great-great-grandfather walked
here from Philadelphia.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
Chase I mean chasing animals, I mean living in caves,
like during the dead of winterin the Midwest.
I mean our bodies were andphysically we have lost so much
of that.
I think it's naive to thinkthat we won't continue to lose
capacities that we don't need tosurvive.
And I will tell you one of the-.

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Is that a bad?

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
thing.
Well, here's one area that Ithink is a bad thing.
A lot of times I'm like I'mgonna try not to make this a
holy war, but here we go.
Christ Harris, it's not a holywar here.
So part of the appeal of theCatholic faith to some Catholics
are the fact that it was this.
There's this original lineageback to Christ.

(01:26:02):
And then 1600 years later, 1587, right, martin Luther, in
response to some corruptionwithin the church, right, said
you know, I want to do thingsthis way.
And now we've got like 16,000denominations of people doing
things different ways and kindof saying you know, we talked
about the Eucharist and is thatreally the true body and blood?
And for 1587 years it was.
And then we decided no, it'sprobably not, it's a symbol,

(01:26:24):
right, and everyone that was aChristian believed that,
including Martin Luther.
And so then I think what'sinteresting about this is
historically and you've evensaid this CJ is like well, you
got to be careful with thatargument because historically
those weren't the brightest ofthe bunch, right, we've
continued to learn a lot anddevelop cognitively and become
more sophisticated, and sopeople in the around the turn of

(01:26:46):
the initial millennia, aroundzero and the thousand and
whatever, like, did they havethe cognitive capability to
really discerntransubstantiation or
consubstantiation or whether ornot that was the true.
I would argue that, like for meat least, in this environment of
distraction.
You talk about discernment andthe ability to continue to do
that.
There is so much noise anddistraction.
I would err on the side ofthinking that it's hundreds of

(01:27:08):
years ago.
They were in a much betterplace to discern direction
spiritually than probably we aretoday.
And so some of that, as I lookback on that, we're redefining
our own rules and our ownsocietal context and, like well,
in this day and age there aresome things that are either more
convenient or just make moresense to us.
Now I'm really really cautiousand hesitant to throw out what
has been established throughthousands of years across dozens

(01:27:32):
of different civilizations andsocieties and somehow lasted,
and then it's just reallyconvenient for us to say, ah,
they didn't know what the heckthey were talking about.
We're going to kind of redefinethe rules this way and redraw
the lines.
I think it's dangerous talkingabout we're going to kind of
redefine the rules this way andredraw the lines.
I think it's dangerous.
But my point is to circle backis I think, yes, it can be a bad
thing when we lose the capacityto do things that we once
exercised very meaningfully.

Speaker 2 (01:27:52):
Yeah, if we figure out, I mean, and I and I wonder,
you know, brain versus let'scall it, let's call it a
separation brain versus soul.
You know the brain?
I was listening to a podcastthe other day.
It was something to do withphysiology or running or
whatever, and the comment wasthe brain always wins.
It's figuring out how to dancewith the brain and at times, get

(01:28:14):
it to, um, back off a littlebit and and kind of, you know,
be comfortable in certainsituations.
So I say that, um, as itrelates to losing my train of
thought.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
Well, I'll jump in because, as I heard you talk
like, thinking of times whenmaybe I think there's mind, body
, soul or mental, physical,spiritual, however you want to
define it At what time were allthose at a peak right?
Like what I heard you say, todd, is maybe our spiritual
awareness or ability to connectto the divine has deteriorated

(01:28:49):
over time.
Mentally, we've eitherdeteriorated or got better over
time.
Physically, we're seeing adeterioration currently, like as
you think back through thecenturies.
It's just fascinating to seeprobably different civilizations
in different times.
They were heightened in certainareas and certain.
I wonder if there was ever apoint in time when all three

(01:29:12):
were optimized.

Speaker 2 (01:29:13):
Getting back to my really quickly getting back to
finishing my thought is sayingmine if the mind figures out, I
can satiate this need, like thissoul need, through this method
that requires me to do nothing,Because to fulfill this soulful
need in the right way, it'ssitting down and having a long
conversation with somebody orexperiencing something unique

(01:29:37):
together, versus, oh well, if Ican just pick this phone up and
tell it all my problems andwhatever, and it'll fulfill it
right back to me and I don'thave to do anything.
And you know, the brain, aswe're experiencing, is seemingly
wired to do as little aspossible.
If it's got that option, youknow, does it just say I don't
need that anymore, I'm going togo this route and I'm going to

(01:29:59):
do this.
You know, back to one of ourprior episodes where we talk
about the spirit of doing hardthings.
It's this constant push andpull, and so it kind of yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
To me it's a fit.
To me it's a fit thing.
I think the further you go back, the better on all three fronts
.
And here's why because ourbrain and our mind and our a lot
of our, even our physiology,developed and evolved during I
mean spiritually, whether it'stens of thousands or millions of

(01:30:32):
years or whatever evolved andwe continue to find ourselves in
a more and more differentenvironment than what our mind
and our brain and our body waswired for.
So that's the thing.
Like you're talking about thesetendencies, the reason the mind
is like, hey, can I find thisshortcut?
Is because that was needed tosurvive.
At one point in time you had totake the shortest path, you had

(01:30:53):
to take the most efficient path, because if you didn't it might
mean you die, and today itdoesn't.
And so the brain is still wiredfor that age back in the day.
And when I feel like when I saygo back further and further, I'm
kind of under theinterpretation that from a labor
perspective, the further you goback, the more physical labor
there was to be able to survive.
Right, it was hunting andgathering and chasing animals

(01:31:14):
and killing them and cookingthem and whatever to like.
Then it went to farming, whichis still very physically
laborious relative to what wehave today.
But the human body hascontinued to be and there were
more shelters right, and so thehuman body has continued to be
put under fewer and fewer,lesser and lesser pressure.
So from a body perspective, Ithink the further you go back,
probably the better.

(01:31:34):
Spiritually, the same thing themore simple things were, the
less distractions there were,the less noise.
I mean, that was thecenterpiece of the world for a
very, very long time and itseems to have slowly
deteriorated and maybe there wasa period of thousands of years
where it was kind of a plateaubefore these major industrial
and technological revolutions.
But I would say, arguably, thefurther you go back, there was

(01:31:56):
more simplicity and more focuson the divine.
Whether that's going back to,you know, even depending on
again what your religion is,that goes all the way back to
the Greeks and then you know,prior to Jesus, the Jewish
religion like it was the centerof everything.
And then, from a mindperspective, again, the further
you go back, the more you're ina period where your mind was

(01:32:20):
actually more.
You're in a period that yourmind was actually developed to
be in right, because I thinkthere was a extended period of
time where you know, when youwere a hunter-gatherer, there
would probably be thousands ofyears before there was
meaningful change in theenvironment.
I mean today it's like whatchanges in 10 years was probably
a thousand years of change backin the day, and so mentally I

(01:32:43):
feel like our minds evolved in aperiod that was probably
similar to what people wereliving in for a period of time,
and now it's just so different.
That's why I think our minds soyou asked me that question I'd
say the further back the better.
Now they suffered in differentways, right?
They lived till they were 30 or40.
They were 30, the disease, thegosh, the different things that

(01:33:04):
they had to deal with,inconveniences, discomforts.
So we need to be cautious.
When we say mind-body, it's notthat they live more convenient
lives, but I would say the bodywas in the best shape, the mind
was probably the most connected.
But obviously it's differenttoday.
Our conveniences, ourtemperature and heck, we've got
shoes.
I mean, mean we just we've gotit.

(01:33:25):
All this is we're living in thegreatest time in the history of
mankind.
As with the most mental illnessbut it depends on how you define
that well, you know it'sinteresting.

Speaker 2 (01:33:34):
It almost seems like it's this paradox the more we
uncover from a technologicaladvancement perspective, the
more solutions to problems wefind, which we are wired to to
solve problems, we go back towhat we lose.
I think we've mentioned both ofthese stories in prior episodes
, but one is storytelling.
That was it.
That's all you had until theprinting press right, and yes,

(01:33:58):
there are ancient scripts outthere that people have uncovered
, but for the most part, Icannot imagine what it would be
like being told a story, evenwhen we were younger and hearing
stories from adults.
It was a much more refinedability that we've basically
lost, I think.
The other one, something that Irecognized the other day.
I was in Tennessee with anindividual who grew up in the

(01:34:22):
woods and watching him look overthe landscape and like, call
things out that there's no way.
Like, like, what are youtalking?
Oh yeah, that used to be an oldfarm road.
What are you talking about?
Oh yeah, can't you see the wayit does this?
Or oh, this is this, or this isthis, or this is this.

(01:34:43):
And I'm just like you know, and, and we were talking about and
I think those abilities arestill there.
Uh, he was explaining to me anindividual that he knew that
through his shoes could feel thedifference in the foliage on
the ground so that he knew howto navigate.
But you had to have that backthen.

(01:35:05):
So, like a lot of those sensesthat we're talking about
deteriorating, I think we stillhave the ability to engage there
.
But the more we uncover and themore shortcuts we find which is
continually happening the lesswe need it and the more we
become.

Speaker 1 (01:35:20):
So here's the million dollar question.
If you were I'm going to callit independently wealthy, you
could just right now quit yourjob.
You got a couple milliondollars.
Why keep doing all this?
Why keep going down the rabbithole, chasing whatever and

(01:35:43):
trying to?
It's kind of similar to like adiet versus fasting.
Like we live on a diet of life,of like well, we need some of
this, but not too much of this.
Like why not pull your kids out?
Start a homestead, start a farm, do like go back to the earth,
still have the conveniences ofmedicine and things.
Homeschool your kids, teachthem about technology in a way,

(01:36:05):
teach them about hard work.
Like if the mind always wins.
I mean we're just, we're fat andhappy.
I mean that's the problem.
I mean for me, what keeps medriving?
I don't know what you mean byall this, but for me it's
purpose and the ability to putmyself and embed myself.
There are a lot of people thatI am with spiritually that talk

(01:36:25):
about that.
Let's go build a commune out inthe woods and just do our thing
and like disconnect.
But to me I feel like I've gotan obligation to do what I can
to leave this place better offthan I found it and leave the
people better off than I foundit in.
So, like this project, likeeach and I, my goal here is to
help people reconnectspiritually, and I don't think
you can do that if you're notembedding yourself in that
society and learning thosepeople and connecting with

(01:36:45):
people to do ever to do that.
So for me it's a purpose.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
Yeah, I mean, for me it's, it's.
I think we're at a point I'msure people have been saying
this for hundreds of years ortens of years at least that
maybe we're.
We're seeing the pendulum swingback Like this is.
This is really, I mean.
Yes, physical fitness has beenaround for decades, right, and
there have been different boomsand busts in terms of the fads
that have come and gone, but Ithink now more than ever, there

(01:37:10):
is an effort to recreate theexperiences of old.
No, we're not building our homesby hand, but you're seeing a
hopeful at least you're seeingthe tip of the spear in regards
to people getting into the gymand people doing endurance
efforts and people being peopleactually caring about what they

(01:37:31):
eat, and we're uncovering thosethings and you know, we're
looking at where these big holesare and taking care of
ourselves.
And then we're we're recognizedthe mistakes that we made
potentially with social media,and where it's good and where
it's bad.
So I think for me, the hope isis that we can we're recognized
the mistakes that we madepotentially with social media,
and where it's good and whereit's bad.
So I think for me, the hope isthat we can we're this unique
and not to pat ourselves on theback as being this special
generation, but betweenmillennial and Gen X or whatever

(01:37:54):
we're.
This unique generation, likesome of the generations have
been before us in certaincircumstances that have
experienced both sides of thependulum.
We were there before theinternet and we've grown up from
essentially the first personalcomputer on.

(01:38:15):
You know, and seeing technologyevolve this way hopefully help
land the pendulum in the rightspot and bring people back
before AI copies itself out ofthe system and takes over and
kills everyone.
That's a great place to end.
We got to unplug.

Speaker 1 (01:38:35):
Yeah Well, that was a lot of AI.
I mean, we've covered a lot.
Do you guys have any?
You want to add any other finalthoughts to that?
No, we kind of covered that andthen some.
Yeah Well, today I wasfascinated.
I love the insights.
Listen to TJ and Todd and justkind of going through that

(01:38:57):
exercise, I think there's a tonof opportunity with AI.
But I also heard don't take itas the Bible literally and
figuratively, Like when you getinformation on there, use it as
a resource and a tool, but notas the only thing.
So I would highly encourage youguys, whether you're in
business or you're an individual, to spend some time there

(01:39:19):
learning about some of the toolsand things are out, but
ultimately, don't listen toeverything it tells you to do.
So thanks for tuning in.
We'll see you next time.

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