🎙️Episode 14: When Doubt Creeps In: Sustaining Vision Despite Uncertainty 🎙️

Grit is defined as passion and perseverance over a long period of time, and this quality is essential for entrepreneurial success despite being increasingly rare in today's instant-gratification society.

• Todd shares his seven-year journey developing Eternize, a haptic cross designed to provide spiritual reminders throughout the day
• The importance of community support when pursuing long-term business goals
• How fear of failure can be overcome by falling in love with the problem-solving process
• Why nobody cares about your solution - they only care about the problem you're solving
• Realistic timelines for business success: potentially 10 years for a side business, 3-5 years for a full-time venture
• Strategies for balancing multiple businesses, family responsibilities, and day jobs
• Methods for instilling grit in children through manageable challenges and celebrating progress
• The potential societal implications of declining grit in younger generations
• Secondary benefits of developing grit, including increased risk tolerance and adaptability

For more insights on building businesses with staying power, follow us on social media and subscribe to The Daily Edge podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Daily Edge where we bring you the
latest insights, opinions andthought-provoking conversations
to give you that competitiveedge in life, business and
beyond.
Let's go Welcome to episode 14of the Daily Edge here with my
brothers, tj Daly and Todd Daly,excited to be here this morning

(00:28):
.
And we're going to start offwith grit.
You know like what is grit?
It's passion and perseveranceover a long period of time.
Everyone talks about grit, hownecessary it is, trying to lock
into something for not only aweek, a month, a year, but maybe
a decade.
And throughout our journeyswe've had a lot of failures, but

(00:53):
there's been several instancesof where we've each adapted to
or we've each had to get in asituation where we've had to had
grit over a long period of time.
And so I want to kick this off.
We've launched differentcompanies.
I so I want to kick this off.
We've launched differentcompanies.
I want to go to Eternize and Iremember running with Todd and
he's like I got this idea.

(01:14):
And you know, with us like that, we're never short of saying
we've got an idea right.
It's like everyone's got amillion ideas, but the ones that
actually you put action behindthem are few and far between.
And he's like no one haspatented a haptic cross.
He's like I'm so tired of beingdistracted, I want something to

(01:34):
bring me back.
And so he had this vision andthis was about seven years ago
of what it would look like tobring something to the market
that would help him personallywith his faith, his spirituality
and making it present in hisevery day.
But throughout the last sevenyears, I mean we're really not
even to the finish line rightnow.
Right Like we're I'm sorry,we're really not even to the

(01:57):
starting line, right.
So like you've had seven yearsof just staying faithful.
You've been to China twice,you've got people in India doing
development, like there's a lotgoing on here and there's been
a lot of failures along the way.
So I would say that the journeyof Eternize seven years, a lot
of money and a lot of time, is agreat example of grit.

(02:19):
I'm sure you've learned a lotalong the way, but kind of tell
us where you're at with that,what are some of the lessons
you've learned a lot along theway?
But kind of tell us whereyou're at with that, what are
some of the lessons you'velearned, and kind of take us
through that journey.
I was telling someone the otherday that if I had realized how
much work it was going to takeand what it was going to be, I'm
not sure I ever would havestarted.
So there's, honestly, there's alittle bit of ignorance that

(02:42):
played in my favor of what itwas going to take and how long
it was going to take.
I would say what I think hasprobably, at a high level, kept
me in this game is that I'vebeen chasing something I'm very
passionate about and I think youhear the cliche comment of do

(03:07):
what you love.
You know you'll never workanother day in your life.
And I feel like in a couple ofdifferent instances I've
unpacked, I think, some of thosecliche phrases.
There is some sort of afoundational truth to those and
I would say for me, eternizechasing that.
It's been something that I'vepassionate about and something

(03:28):
that's benefited me and that'swhy, honestly, I've stuck with
it.
If I was doing it for the moneyor if I was doing it for the
recognition or notoriety, Iwould have stopped several years
ago.
So I would say, for me that ishuge.
And another way I would kind ofcharacterize that is starting
with why.
Another shout out to SimonSinek, great book.

(03:50):
Starting With why and I'vetried to stay really, really
close to that over the years iswhy am I doing this?
And it's certainly been for theeventual impact that I think
could come from it.
So I would say for me thosehave probably been the pillars
of why I'm continuing to do that.
But just to talk a little bitto the story, it was seven years

(04:14):
ago.
I shared it with a buddy of mine, I shared it with you guys, and
one thing I want to highlightabout this is that I also don't
think it's all been me.
Now this taps in a little bitto my spiritual disposition, but
I feel like God's put so manypeople in the way of this

(04:35):
project and maybe part of thatis just me being open-minded to
that and seeing that and beingopen to it.
But I think he has put a ton ofpeople in my way that have
encouraged me and that I've beenable to take energy from to
continue on this journey.
Because, even though I know itwas passionate for me and I was
interested in it, given the timeand energy and resources that
I've invested into it, if I hadrun into people that were like,

(04:58):
yeah, this really, you know, I'mnot really interested in this.
I mean, you guys both the two ofyou especially have shown
incredible amount of support onthis, both verbally and just in
wearing the cross, theprototypes that we've had, I
mean that is absolutely criticalfor someone like me, I will say

(05:20):
, to continue to be on, wakingup at 6.15, 6.30 in the morning,
getting on calls with the teamin India at 2.30 or 3 o'clock
and working through tacticalscreen issues of how the screens
are laying out or how peopleare navigating through those to
late nights on calls with theteam in China they're 12 hours

(05:44):
and working through productionissues and challenges.
That energy that I got I can'ttake full credit for.
That comes from a lot of peoplewho had so much excitement,
anticipation, you know, peoplewho invested, even financially,
early on.
It's just.
I feel really grateful to havehad an incredible support

(06:07):
community.
Well, there you go.
It comes back to communityagain, right, surrounding
yourself with a community thatcan support you on some of these
difficult things.
So let me pause there.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
No, I mean, I think that, yeah, I think it'd be good
to expound on what the value isin terms of you know that
authentic because I thinkauthentic is a big word there
the authentic community that wasaround you, because I think you
know early on to just dive in alittle bit more to the product
itself, it's a vibrating crossand when you hear that it's like
we've had vibrating devices fordozens and dozens of years, I

(06:46):
mean you can go back to wind upalarm clocks right, like they've
been around.
And so, that said, you've hadpeople around you that not only
supported your vision because itwas you, but I think there was
this authenticity about them,willing to have conversations on
how it could be implemented,and then that helped broaden
your vision and give you moreresolve to drive forward.
So maybe it would beinteresting to hear how you talk

(07:11):
to obviously touched at it on ahigher level but hearing maybe
a couple of specific examples ofthe types of people that you've
looked for, the types of peoplethat you've sought out based on
, maybe, their personality, orbased on their, their
personality, or based on theirprofessional success, or based
on their, their involvement withother projects and what those

(07:31):
people have done, cause, youknow, maybe our listeners have a
friend who's you know taking ajourney or or pursuing an
endeavor, and they want tosupport them in the best way
possible.
So what are some of those ways?
In a little bit more specificdetail, they could do that.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, I think the thing that I had to get over was
the fear of rejection.
Sharing that idea with somebodyand them saying, yeah, that's
not a great idea, or oh, that'scool, but just kind of placating
me.
And I think that's the a greatidea, or oh, that's cool, but
just kind of placating me.
And I think that's the firststep.

(08:09):
I don't think you ever knowexactly who is going to be the
most passionate and going to beyour champion at the end of the
day, and so I think that's stepone is being willing to share it
and almost experiment withreactions, and I think that's

(08:30):
how part of how I foundcertainly you're going to look
for, that's how I found, I think, the right people to support me
in this.
I think certainly there's anelement of you're looking for
people that have, maybecharacteristics and dispositions
who might find it valuable.
I mean, for me.
This was the reason I did thisand, as you mentioned, trent,

(08:51):
maybe at the start I just feltlike I was getting pulled back
into this societal vortex.
I want to be a great dad, Iwant to stay in good shape, I
want to professionally performat a high level, I want to
volunteer on these nonprofitboards, all of the things.
You want to be a good husbandand you're trying to juggle all
these things, and so I justfound I kept getting wrapped up

(09:12):
in so many things to do and somuch going on.
I was on autopilot and it was,and so finding others that had
those similar characteristicswas certainly a part of it, but
I think I would say the biggestpart is just being willing to
share it and put it out in theuniverse.
To steal a line from CameronBalzer Put things out in the

(09:33):
universe and see what thereaction is.
And things have evolved.
I would say when I firstintroduced this and I think, the
more that you can collaboratein community, not only do you
get the support, but you getgood ideas to kind of evolve
where things are going.
So when I first did this, thiswas all just about having
something that you could programeither on random or at specific

(09:54):
times to hit you during thosestressful moments or those
moments where you found yourselfthroughout the day or the
weekend really being vulnerableto being excessively frustrated
or having challenged to keepyour head in a spiritual place.
One of the early guys that Ihad engaged really leaned into
the community aspect of it.
He said and TJ, I think youwere very early on, you may have

(10:18):
even had this idea initially.
We had a few conversations oflike what if you could send a
prayer to someone else or send avibration to someone else's
cross?
And it's like that opened up awhole new world and we went down
that path.
And so those are also energizingmoments, because a lot of this

(10:38):
is about we talk about grit.
It's maintaining that energy,maintaining that level,
sustaining that motivation,maintaining that energy,
maintaining that level,sustaining that motivation.
And it's come in the mostunusual ways and some of the
most surprising people and Ihave, I will say, I've run into
a lot of people that I've sharedthis idea with and they've been

(10:59):
like, eh, that's kind of cool,but I would never wear a
necklace, or I don't wearnecklaces, and some of that,
again, is is part of theevolution, of finding the
community.
I will also say some of thosepeople now have tried the cross
and they feel very differentlyabout it, which has been been
fun to see as well.
I okay, yeah, I'd like to askyou both a question, because I

(11:24):
really don't have a lot ofexperience in starting a
business.
I would say I come in andprobably later in the stage and
I'm more of a scaler.
But one of the biggest thingsand you touched on this is, like
you have to be the visionarybut you're also the energy hype
guy, right To believe inyourself and to believe in the

(11:46):
product.
And there is a lot of timewhere I think you have doubt
right.
Like you've started the trackclub, you've started TPD
Productions, you've startedEternize, you've started Premium
Logic.
But I know from going throughthat, even with the businesses
that I own, is that there aretimes when you're like
everything's going great oryou've got.

(12:08):
It seems like you need momentum, you want people around you,
you want to share.
For people out there that arestarting a new business and I
think this ties into grit, butit's more so like you start a
new business, you have this ideaand you're on fire about this
idea, but at some point in timethose emotions of doubt creep in
, like is it really a good idea?

(12:28):
Is it like?
And you start to get like oh,do I, should I really do this?
How do?
How did you persevere throughthose emotions of like?
I'm not really sure, and maybeit was community and other
people, but I would be reallycurious of what got you guys on
the other side of that, becauseI believe that that doubt is

(12:50):
something that really holds alot of people back.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
For me, I think you hit on a big one there with fear
and it's getting over the fearand then really becomes getting
over the fear and falling,falling in love with the process
.
So if you remember, back to theearly days of nightlife
production, there was this idea.
So the way this came about wasTrent was I think we've touched

(13:15):
in other podcasts.
Trent was the social one of thethree of us.
He moves out to Seattle.
I'm essentially a 23-year-oldliving in what you would call
mom's basement, even though itwas an apartment in Kirkland
Washington, but I didn't doanything socially.
I'd been social at differenttimes in my life, but it just
wasn't.
Then Trent introduces me tonightlife and a buddy of ours is

(13:36):
a very successful DJ.
At a night that was driven bywhen I say night, it was a
Monday night and the crowdattending this event was driven
by the drink specials that wereoffered.
There was no other reason andwe misinterpret.
So we see this thing and againback to one of my driving
passions making people happy.
It's like, oh, we can do this.

(13:57):
Everybody's coming here and wethink that they're coming here
to see this guy DJ and we cancreate all these other really
cool events and provide thisvalue and make people happy.
And at that time, when you'repartnered with somebody who's
serving 700 people a night, youfeel really confident.
You don't have a lot of doubts,you're like we can just do this
.
And so we're like we're goingto make flyers and we're going

(14:21):
to put them on people's cars andthey're going to come to these
other events.
And so you know, based on thesuccess of that particular event
, we got somebody else to allowus to do New Year's Eve by the
Space Needle and again, we putflyers on cars and people showed
up.
Well, of course they did,because it's New Year's Eve and
it's right next to one of thebiggest landmarks in the entire
city and they're just going towalk by and walk in.

(14:42):
So we're like, oh, my goodness,we made $3,000 or whatever it
was, and we thought, and then wegot smacked in the face the
shark club, the shark club, onSundays and three of us there
foryears Korean Olympic restaurant.
Right, we had gotten referralsfrom other promoters who'd
attended that Monday and they'dtold other club owners that we
were the East side Kings and itwas a total farce.

(15:05):
And so that's right, you'reright.
When the doubt started to creepin, and then that's where I say
you fall in love with theprocess.
You're like, okay, puttingflyers on cars isn't working.
What do we do?
How do we solve this problem?
I still have this like innerdrive to create something to
make people happy, and there'spart of the passion.

(15:25):
Then part of it is the fear offailure.
I don't want to be a failure.
I got mom to give me $1,500 toprint this first round of flyers
.
I don't want to be a failurehere either.
So I've got to remove we'lljust use traditional business
jargon KPIs from myself.
Let's not worry about hittingthese numbers that we've seen in

(15:46):
the past.
Let's realize that this is hard.
If it was easy, everybody woulddo it.
And let's look at okay, wherecan we leverage our skillset to
be successful?
So one of those things was wewere working at Microsoft and we
had IT background and we hadtechnical skill sets and we

(16:06):
could code a little bit.
So well, let's put up a website.
I don't see a lot of peopledoing that and then you think
about it and you have moreconversations and you're like
you know we probably need tobecome more ingratiated with
that community.
So let's start going to a lotof events and just talking to
people and getting to know themand buying them drinks and

(16:27):
building that community.
And then you start to havethese revelations where you know
what.
I've noticed that whensomeone's looking at a yearbook
or someone's looking at sometype of photo gallery that
they're always looking forthemselves.
It's like they have this.
We should take pictures ofpeople and put them on the
website.
Let's do that.
And you know, we've startedgoing to these clubs more often

(16:52):
and I see that getting people'semail addresses is a big deal
and I see that what people aredoing is when somebody goes to
check their coat at a coat check, they're writing their email
down on a piece of paper andthen they're putting that in and
they're sending them emailsabout events.
Well, what if we took thepictures that we know people
want to see and we passwordprotected them so they had to

(17:12):
give us their email and then wecould validate the email and it
wouldn't be written down bysomebody who's half-trunk in a
club.
And then all of a sudden wehave the biggest email list in
the Northwest and it was just byfollowing, and then we
implement text messaging and all.
But it was OK.
I'm passionate about having agood time with people.
I've got to get over this fear,like you said, of being a

(17:34):
failure or of not hitting thenumbers that I think I should
hit, and then falling in lovewith the process of solving the
problem.
What are these little things wecan do?
Let's pay attention to oursurroundings and maybe we don't
have a direct mentor at times.
That's great, but let's lookand pay attention to those.
Let's let our ego let's let ourego aside and be humble and

(17:56):
realize that this isn't easy andthat this isn't something that
just happens overnight.
And that was, you know, for me,a big.
I guess that's kind of theamalgamation of different things
that helped initially withthose other businesses and the
track club is the same thingHelped get them to where they
got.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
But it took years, like you just extrapolated, like
eight years of that process.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, tpd started in 03.
And really that wasn'tprofitable.
I mean, we started going out in02, probably right, so it
wasn't really profitable forfour or five years after that,
for sure.
And MTC was even less so right,we started that in 16.
And this is really the firstyear, nine years later, where

(18:42):
we're even at a breakeven point.
But it's grown.
We've sold out our races andit's continuing to grow because
we really care about theexperiences that people have.
And again, that's back to thatunderlying driving passion.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
Todd, I don't know if you wanted to add anything to
that.
If not, I got another questionfor you.
Go ahead, I'll ask that.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Well.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
I remember with you and a couple of businesses one
in particular there's an urgency, right, it's like we got to do
something.
We got to do it now.
If this doesn't take off,things are moving too quick.
In every example that I'veheard from TJ and you, it's an
incredible amount of patience.
There is a process I've neverseen anything take off in just a

(19:29):
couple years.
Right, it seems like the firstfive years are just like letting
people know you exist.
Talk me through what you'velearned in that process.
Yeah, I would say I love what TJsaid about falling in love with
the process and beingpurpose-driven.
I would say I love what TJ saidabout falling in love with the
process and and being purposedriven.
I think my sense of urgency attimes it's this balance of sense

(19:50):
of urgency and underlyinglong-term patients that I love
to not I love to continue tokeep the ball moving to the best
of my ability and if things aremoving forward as fast as you
know I, I can reasonably do thatand, and the others who are
contributing, that actuallygives me a little bit of energy
that we're putting our best footforward, and so I think some of
that feeds the long-termpatients just being more impact

(20:13):
and purpose driven is hey, Iwant to be doing my best at
whatever I do.
That's just a standard ofexcellence, um, that I kind of
carry forward.
That motivates me.
Uh, it does take an incredibleamount of patience and I have
learned a ton on that front froma long-term perspective,
especially, as I mentionedearlier.

(20:34):
This was the case for Eternize,as well as Premium Logic, which
is a data analytics business.
If I had known how long it wasgoing to take and where we would
be.
I mean, neither of thesebusinesses are profitable.
I mean they're still continuingto consume significant amounts
of time and money and energy andright now they're not

(20:54):
generating any money.
I mean, I'm squarely in thatthis isn't looking back and like
, oh, I'm squarely in the partwhere I am struggling to
prioritize and having to askmyself some tough questions what
am I doing?
But I am trusting the processand I have fallen in love with
the process and found differentways to keep going.

(21:16):
I will say the one thing that'shelped me with Eternize
especially and I learned this alittle bit with Premium Logic is
having appropriate expectations, knowing that it is going to
take a lot of time.
So I would say two things thathave really, from an expectation
perspective, been huge for me.

(21:37):
It takes longer than you think.
It's going to be more complexthan you think.
It's going to take more time,money, energy.
You're going to have more time,money, energy.
You're going to have moreroadblocks.
There's going to be more ohcrap moments than you think.
I mean psychologically,physically, emotionally.
It is going to be harder thanyou think.
The other thing that I thinkcounters that is, especially

(21:58):
when you're looking forcommunity and you're looking for
support and energy, it isharder than you can imagine for
people to actually get your ideaand understand it and be as
excited about it as you are.
No one will ever be as excitedabout your idea as you are, no
matter how much you try I'vetried to do this on both of my
companies to just and I feellike it should just happen If I

(22:19):
explain it to them like hey,here's what we're doing, that
everyone should have that sameamount of excitement.
And the reality is it's reallyhard for people to get it the
way you get it, because you'vebeen living, dreaming, you've
internalized this like you cansee it, you can feel it, and
when you try to convey that tosomebody.
It just doesn't happen.

(22:39):
You can't transfer that likeyou would think, and so for me,
I've learned that over time andit's really helped me not to be
discouraged by people's lukewarmreactions, because it just is
really hard for people to get itto that level until they get
engaged and they're thinkingabout it to the extent that you

(23:00):
are on an everyday basis.
So just my expectations andknowing that going in it's
helpful.
When you say that to someone,when you share the idea with
someone and they just kind ofgive you that lukewarm response,
if you know that's coming, it'seasy to kind of let that roll
off your back.
If you go into thatconversation looking for the

(23:21):
energy and the excitement andyou're expecting that and you
just can't wait to see thereaction because you're going to
share this great idea with themand they're going to be so
pumped up, it can be a hugeletdown and can let a lot of air
out of the balloon.
So I think understanding thosetwo things and keeping them in
your mind as you move forward iscritical.

(23:41):
What would you guys?
I think that's really, reallygood.
A lot of people I know want tostart their own business, right?
Young entrepreneur got an idea.
Want to start a business.
The easiest thing to do is goon and register your LLC.
Get your thing.
You post it online.
I got my LLC.
What would you say to those newentrepreneurs that got an idea?

(24:05):
They go register the idea.
They're at square one.
What advice would you give them?
Nobody cares about your solution.
They care about the problemthat you're going to solve for
them.
I've got that advice and that'sbeen really hard for me.
Having data analytics business,having this cross business, I'm
just like, oh, we've got thesecool dashboards and these cool

(24:28):
analytics and oh, check out thiscross and it does this, and it
does that and it does this.
Nobody cares.
I would say nobody gives.
I'm going to pardon my French,but nobody gives a shit, frankly
.
So if you are coming up with abusiness, it better be solving a
problem for a large group ofpeople and it better be a

(24:49):
problem that is annoying enoughthat someone's willing to invest
some of their resources intoyou to help them solve that.
And so anytime that you'rethinking about starting a
business, you need to bethinking and falling in love
with the problem and not fallingin love with any sort of
solution you have.
That's been the toughest thingfor me to learn.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
I think you also too.
To add onto that, you have tobe realistic about where you are
in your life and how you canaccommodate the growth of your
business.
So I'll give an example.
I think there's a couple ofdifferent instances.
You know, uh, premium logic goton its feet faster than it
turned ice.
For sure.
A lot of that was because ofthe proximity that it lived to
your day job.
So there was a little bit morefocus and there was more benefit
to IMG and things like that inthe early development and you

(25:30):
guys were kind of workingtogether on some things like
that.
You know, I think what's beeninteresting for me is, you know,
in the first couple of years ofTPD 02, 03, 04, it was very
especially 03, 04, it wassecondary I was working at
Microsoft, I was working atDisney.
We're doing as much as we could, but really spending that time

(25:51):
understanding the lay of theland.
I mean, again, I've mentionedin prior podcasts I didn't have
my first drink till I was 23 andI'd never been to a nightclub
in my life.
I've been to some house parties, but that was really about it.
So I was really learning thelay of the land and learning the

(26:13):
environment.
Tpd from 05 to 06 grewexponentially.
Why?
Because I lost my job and Ididn't have a family and I was
20 some years old and I wasrooming with five people.
So it was like that was thetime of life that we talked
about in prior episodes, where Iwas kind of living in my car
for a while, I'd had a couplethousand dollars left over from
my last paycheck at my job, andthat was when I met Eric, who
was my business partner in thatback that time and that first

(26:33):
night we worked together.
I made 500 bucks, but I was ata point in my life where I could
dump 17 hours a day into thisit was, you know, going to so
was able to make thisexponential leap.
So is it possible to do that?
Sure, but you, I think a lot oftimes people downplay those

(26:57):
years spent learning thelandscape.
Right, you may have.
You were in insurance and youwere over at Liberty Mutual for
a decade learning the landscapeand then it seemed like, oh,
premium logic was on its feet in18 months.
Well, you had a thoroughunderstanding of the problem,
similar to what we did.

(27:18):
But you can take it from thereto there if you've got that
thorough understanding if you'vegot the time and effort to
dedicate to that.
But then what you find is, ifyou have an entrepreneur who's
maybe a little older, has afamily, you know you can't put
35 hours a week into a sidehustle with a job like that, so
it's going to take longer and Ithink you have to be honest with

(27:39):
yourself as it relates to thoseexpectations.
We're growing each and everynight right now and I'm
constantly trying to find littleplaces where we can work on
some of the things that we havein front of us.
And Todd's very understandingbecause he deals with the same
struggles, I think, where, okay,I put 10 hours into it this

(28:02):
week.
So I think, being honest withyourself in terms of the time
and effort you can put into itand understanding, like you said
, the problem at a very thoroughand deep level, this is a
really good point.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
So, grit, basically you got to be able to put in the
work right over a long periodof time.
So here we are severalbusinesses, several focuses
right, and there's probablypeople out there that have a
business or they have afull-time job and they want to
start a new business.
Would you recommend someonestart a new business when they

(28:38):
already have a job?
Or how are you guys managingthe difficulty of because you
know, when a business starts,it's an infant, it's like taking
care of a baby.
You got to feed the baby, yougot to change the baby, you got
to.
How do you go about that?
And what advice would you giveto young entrepreneurs that are
trying to do more than one thing?

(29:02):
I think what TJ said is key andTJ's had, I think, better said
is key and TJ's had, I think,better patience than I.
First of all, it's extremelydifficult and, whatever you do,
do not try and start multiplebusinesses while you're working
a full time job with three kids.
It's a horrible idea.

(29:23):
And what TJ uncovered and whenhe was talking about the
intricacies of him, pouring inand they started to get and
spend time with people andthat's where they uncovered some
of these keys to unlock thepictures they wanted to see
themselves.
That's where you have thoseideas and those moments that can
be transformational.

(29:43):
It can accelerate progress andwhen you're trying to juggle
five and six things, it'sextremely, extremely difficult
to get down to that level ofgranularity where you really
find the gems and the diamondsthat can transform the business.
So I would say, whatever you do, do not.
And so, yeah, do not try andjuggle more than what can be

(30:09):
reasonably expected.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
I mean, to me that's I think we talked about this
maybe a couple episodes ago.
You also have to kind of shiftexpectations of yourself.
That's really hard because, ascompetitive people, as driven
people, we want to do thattactical work because it makes
you feel important and you'relike I have to do all.

(30:32):
This is my idea.
I have to do every little thingto make this successful.
I don't trust anybody else todo it.
You know I have to drive thisto the end.
And if you're 25 and you have nofamily and you're working a job
that, let's say, is very fixedin terms of you know, say you
work in the service industryfive nights a week and you work

(30:53):
six hours and you make your baseplus tips, and you have all of
this extra time to focus on yourthing and you can do more of
the tactical stuff, Great.
But if you're in a situationlike Todd is or like I am, you
know my primary commitment is tothe company who compensates me,
which is my professional careerday to day.
I can't.
And so for me, with like MTC, Ihave to trust the team.

(31:17):
I have to trust Christie doingsocial media and driving that,
and trust Corey with thelogistics sides of things, and
that's not always easy to do.
You you know, so you have to.
I think that's one of thetoughest things is like look, be
comfortable and take some pridein connecting the dots and take

(31:37):
some pride in again yourexperience in whatever endeavor
and whatever environment thatyou're operating in, and the
value of that experience and howthat helps you build the right
community to drive your visionforward.
That's tough and that's a bigthing.
That if you're going to starttwo businesses or a business
with multiple kids and you'regoing to jump, you better be

(31:59):
willing to trust other people orthere's going to be some
massive issues with inside ofwhether that's your day job or
your family.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
And I want to add to that and one of the things I
wanted to I think you've donereally well at is manage your
own expectations about how fastit's going to go, Because you
have been great about MTC.
You knew that was going to goat a snail's pace based on the
time and energy you have andinvest in that, and you were
okay with that.
That's something that I havestruggled with and learned is

(32:33):
stepping back and thinking, okay, what pace?
You know it's okay for this tomove at a slower pace.
And knowing that and sitting inthat and being comfortable with
that Because, as I mentionedearlier, naturally I'm wired to
like respond and keep this goingand keep it going as fast as I
can.
And okay, the dev team has aquestion.
I need to get back to themwithin 24 hours and I think

(32:53):
setting those expectations withyourself will relieve a lot of
pressure about how fast itactually truly needs to go.
Is it the end of the world ifthis gets to market in 2025
versus 2026, or 26 versus 27, orwhatever that case is?
I think you can do yourself alot of favors by resetting at a
high level.
This is fascinating because Ibelieve from the entrepreneurs

(33:18):
that I talk to.
They want to start their ownbusiness because they want
freedom of their time and theywant financial freedom.
So my assumption is, as mostpeople will probably resonate
with this, it's like I'm goingto start my own business because
I want free time, I want tomake my own schedule and I want
to make lots of money.
Realistically, and your guys isexpected I mean, how long does

(33:39):
that take for that to evenhappen?
Like, when do you cause?
I know there's different stagesof this, but you guys have both
been in several businesses.
Talk to me about thoseexpectations.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
It might never happen .
I mean, you may get to a pointwhere it's a large part of your
lifestyle, but maybe you have tosupplement it a little bit.
I think the important thing isit really does back to your
cliche statement.
It really does back to yourcliche statement early.
It really does have to besomething you love and like.
One of the reasons I've beenable to maintain my patience is

(34:12):
it's like focus on don't measureyourself against every other
business out there.
And it's so hard because youhave people that we're.
We're in this time, um,especially about a decade ago,
maybe six or seven years, whereAmazon reselling became huge and
people still do it.
But, like people figured out, Ican go to Alibaba or whatever

(34:33):
site in China and I can buythese things at a reasonable
price.
I'll create a fake brand andI'll relist it on Amazon.
And there are always thosefirst adopters, like the people
that bought Bitcoin 15 years ago.
Right, they get in at that, and.
But the problem with today isthey're sharing those journeys
on social media or on YouTubeand you're like, oh, this guy,

(34:56):
we've all seen it right.
The, the, the, the finance bros.
Oh yeah, dude, got to make20,000 this week.
You know, all I got to do isyou got to do these five things.
It's going to take you 20minutes a day and you're going
to make your 500 grand a year.
Take my course.
We've got to stop comparingourselves with those types of
people out there and just letthe driver not be.

(35:18):
I'm going to have all of thismoney and all this free time,
but I'm going to solve thisproblem for these people.
You know, with the FOMO, that'sthe best example I have.
I was so nervous about it.
It was like the first time Iever threw an event in Seattle.
It was like, man, I'm going tothrow this event and it's going
to be terrible.
Nobody's going to be there.
These people are going to havepaid for a race.

(35:40):
They're going to show up andthey're going to feel like they
got their money and they'regoing to feel like they got
their money.
They were taken advantage ofand yada, yada, yada, yada.
On the flip side to, nobodygives a shit about your idea.
No one is going to see yourshortcomings like you see them,
and that's a again, I've usedthis word in private.
That's a superpower, right?

(36:01):
Nobody cares as much about theaid station experience as I do
so.
Look, I'm starting this firstevent.
25 people showed up, all rightAgain, best experience we can
deliver for those 25 people.
That's $2,500 in revenue of arace that year cost probably six

(36:21):
or $7,000 to have.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
But you had your expectations set.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Expect yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
You knew that?

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, for sure, and that was huge but that takes
some real self-searching andreal effort to remain humble.
Like, hey, the monumentalmarathon, you know, or the mini,
the mini, the indie mini,happens in may, a month before
us, and they have have 20,000people and I have 20.
I can't measure myself againstthose guys, but guess what?

(36:49):
Here we are, five years in, andwe're within 20% of being the
largest 50K in the United States.
And the only reason is becauseI'm obsessed with making sure
that everybody has the bestexperience possible, that this
race is accessible to everybodyand that this helps people
achieve things they didn't thinkthey could achieve.
Had I started, I thinkpersonally, measuring against

(37:13):
some of those larger races, Iwould have shut it down after
the first year because I'd havebeen so embarrassed I might not
have even I might have shut itdown before the race started.
25 people, it's a joke, but nowit's one of the strongest
communities in the country.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
I want to add to that .
And then, trent, I want to askyou a question.
So if you were trying to starta business while you're doing a
full-time job, I would say 10years.
I would say it's probably goingto take you a decade for it to
start to actually yieldmeaningful resources.
And I would say, if you'regoing to do it on your own and
you're going to go out andyou're going to drop your
full-time job, to make it happen, it could be three to five

(37:51):
years before you really turn acorner and it starts to produce
the resources that you'reexpecting.
The reason you should start abusiness is probably not so much
for financial freedom, in myopinion, in my experience, not
for financial freedom or freedomof time.
It's to be able to do somethingyou're passionate about and to
feel a lot less like work right.

(38:11):
So quality of life is how youfeel.
It's not necessarily what youhave.
And so if you are spending 40hours a week doing something
that you are enjoying versus notenjoying, that changes your
quality of life drastically.
The stuff that I do on Eternizeand Premium Logic does not
really feel like work.
It can feel painful because ofall the things I'm trying to

(38:33):
juggle, but it's not somethingI've got to I dread doing.
That would be the reason tostart your own business if you
can't find another one Now.
There have been many examples,um that of people creating
financial freedom and freedom oftime by starting their own
business, but there are alsoplenty of examples of athletes

(38:53):
making it to the NBA.
Right.
There are 1% of businesses getto a million dollars in revenue
and you know we're not talkingabout a million dollars in
profit, we're talking a milliondollars of revenue, which maybe
is a hundred thousand or 150,000in profit.
So really, the American dreamis a cool thing and a cool
opportunity, but know whatyou're getting into.

(39:15):
But I wanted to come back tothis idea of fear of failure,
because we've talked a lot aboutstartups.
You've purchased companies thatare already off the ground.
You've purchased companies thatare already off the ground, and
I think that fear of failurevery much applies at all stages
of businesses.
You've had several businesseswhere you've been at these

(39:35):
inflection points where you havehad to make some very scary
investments that jeopardize thelong-term success of the
business.
You've had to been willing toto let the business fail almost
in order to try and transform tothe next stage.
I mean talk about some of thatfailure and some of those
journeys or that fear of failure.
You start asking the question.

(39:55):
I started to like get sick to mystomach of all those nights
that I just didn't sleep.
I think when I hit some of myinflection points.
One of the things that didbring me comfort was to find
other people to join me in thejourney.
One of the questions I askedearlier that when you came in

(40:16):
and you were an owner and youhad skin in the game and you ran
at the same level and intensityas I did and you believed in it
, the more people that I couldget that believe in the company
that were bought into it, theless I would have anxiousness or

(40:39):
anxiety about it.
So all of my companies I havepartners in I don't own any of
well, almost all of them, andpart of that for me is I love
bringing people together alongthe way and trying to create
this unified approach.
But there are several timeswhere I just I didn't sleep.

(41:01):
For weeks I was really nervoushighly leveraged buyouts.
I worried about accounts, Iworried about things falling
apart and I think faith was abig component for me.
I turned to prayer and I turnedto again trying to find the
right people that could closesome of the gaps.

(41:22):
But it probably started when Irealized I couldn't do it all
Back in.
I bought IMG in 2015.
And I soon thereafter I had oneof the largest books of
business I was.
So I was in sales, I was tryingto run operations, I was trying
to run the sales team, I wastrying to be involved in finance

(41:45):
and I I realized and it tookseveral Tony Robbins events of
like, and I say one of thethings about Tony Robbins is he
really helps you gainself-awareness and kind of get
through your thoughts of like,what your shortcomings are, but
also give you motivation andinspiration to believe in

(42:05):
yourself.
Right, because I think that'sone of the things as an
entrepreneur is.
You're like, you have tobelieve in yourself, and you
have to believe in yourself whenyou have those doubts and we
all have those doubts of like isthis going to work?
I don't believe too many peoplehave absolute certainty about
what they're doing and you haveto come across with absolute
certainty.

(42:25):
People want to feel absolutecertainty to get behind you.
So how do we create absolutecertainty within our chassis?
Well, you have to.
You either are strong in yourfaith, you're, you know you're
doing something in your lifethat makes you believe what
you're doing is going to make adifference in people's lives.
So for me, you know, a lot ofthose failures were trying

(42:50):
things, learning things,realizing I can't do it all,
bringing in the right people,being open to ideas, being
realizing.
I think one of the biggestthings that I finally realized
is that I didn't have to doeverything.
I'm the entrepreneur.
I got to be the guy.
I got to know everything.
I got to do it all and then Irealized like I'm only good at a
couple things, that's it.
And once I realized that and Ididn't try to compare myself to

(43:15):
you in ops or like James insales or I didn't have to be
everything to everyone and myego, I didn't have to.
I wasn't trying to live into apersona that I thought people
wanted me to be.
I got to be this guy.
I got to have the answers.
Like there was so much freedomwhen I realized like, look, I'm
playing a role and this is therole I play and it's not any

(43:36):
more important than the role youplay, than James plays, than
our account managers plays, likeevery role in the company, I
believe is vastly important, andwe all have different skill
sets to fulfill those roles.
So when I started to getfreedom and started to get from
what I'm going to call abusiness operator to a business
owner, because I think we alldream about being the business

(43:57):
owner, which is where you dostart to see some of that
financial freedom and thefreedom of time it came from,
just a humbling experience isthat there are people out there
that are better than me and alot of different things
willingness to spend the moneyto bring them in and the
willingness to trust them and Ithink, when we can and really
that's how you formulate teamsand what happens is is your team

(44:18):
starts to grow and they startto gain confidence and you're
providing an opportunity forthem to level up, which I think
is a game changer.
Now, with that, you lose someof your identity in the business
.
But I can't think of any otherspecific stories, but there's a
lot of emotion there.
I think what you hit wascritical around recognizing what

(44:41):
you are good at and spendingtime there, because I mean,
every minute we spend doingsomething is creating some sort
of value.
The more time you can spenddoing the things that you are
really good at, the more returnyou're going to get on that

(45:02):
investment of time, and sofinding opportunities that allow
you to spend more time doingthe things you are really good
at, naturally, I think, is goingto pay off in the long run.
Now, one of the things I wantedto ask you guys about because I
think this is, you know, justthis is something that a lot of

(45:23):
people struggle with.
Whether you're starting yourown business or not, a lot of
people are passionate abouttheir profession and they spend
a ton of time.
Maybe it's not 17 hours a day,but maybe it's well more than
the seven and a half and eighthours a day.
One of the things that I'vestruggled with that I'd love
your insight in and this isanyone who's just professionally

(45:44):
minded and passionate aboutthat and trying to achieve a
standard of excellence isjuggling that with parenting in
particular and otherresponsibilities.
I found myself and sometimesit's making excuses like, hey,
it's okay that I'm doing thisstuff over here because I'm
accomplishing this thing for abroader group of people and I'm

(46:04):
here for my kids.
I'm doing enough here.
It's really.
I found it's really hard to findand feel like you're doing
enough in these places whenyou're trying to do this and
professionally, how have youguys sorted through that or
reasoned through that feelingfulfilled in both aspects and

(46:28):
not feeling like you're robbingPeter to pay Paul?
I think you have to setboundaries.
I always.
I think it's a healthy tension.
I think you're always going tohave the tension right, like if
you care passionately about boththings.
There's always a wrestle,there's always a tension of well
, am I doing enough here?
Am I doing enough here?
So I try to set boundaries of,I try not to be on the phone

(46:49):
when I get home and I try to settime.
The bigger problem for me issometimes it's easier to be at
work Not that I love my kids anyless than my work or my spouse,
but like sometimes it's likebeing at work is the easier play
and it's more fun sometimes,and so sometimes those because
it is like more enjoyable attimes, you find yourself wanting

(47:12):
to do that versus some of theguilt that I have is I want to
want to be there with the kidsmore Right.
And so when you're you'rerunning a successful business
and you're growing and it'sexciting, there's a lot of
momentum and you're winning andlike parenting doesn't have a
ton of those moments whereyou're like I'm winning, right,
it's always like gosh, am I evergoing to figure this out?
So you're getting better.

(47:34):
I think you get feedbackquicker and you get more
satisfaction when you aresuccessful in your profession
and I think that drives you towant to do it more.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
I, for me, I just trust my standard of excellence.
I guess kind of where thatwatermark lies.
So not only am I getting donewhat I need to get done, but am
I helping drive the businessforward in a meaningful way.
You know for me that that isdifferent and there are
different things that I dothroughout the day to make
myself feel more at peace withparticular decisions.

(48:06):
One of the things that I do,you know I know a lot of people
set hard boundaries, like you do, like, hey, I don't want to be
on the phone after five.
I don't necessarily, you know,do that per se, because we're
headquartered on the West Coast.
I make myself available mostdays, you know, until eight or
nine o'clock at night.
Of course, if there's thingsgoing on during that time and I

(48:28):
need to call somebody back,that's fine.
But, um, you know, I kind oflook at it.
I also look at the day morebroadly.
So I look at the day from 7amuntil 9pm and I carve that up
versus like, okay, the, you know.
And that's different for peoplethat are in an office
environment from nine to five oreight to four or whatever that

(48:48):
are fixated, but for a lot ofthe people that are working
remote.
Now it's like, okay, two hourshere, and then it's kind of like
block scheduling for school orwhatever else.
I'm doing two hours here, thenan hour here with the kids, and
two hours here, then an hour orwhatever, however that looks for
you.
But I think it's beingcomfortable setting a standard
of excellence based on your pastaccomplishments and past

(49:09):
achievements.
So if you've been involved withcompanies and you've risen the
ranks and you've done thatthrough a particular method,
then continuing to apply that asyour life changes and again
understanding that as you growprofessionally, it is more
important to leverage yourexperience to recognize who the

(49:31):
people are that are better thanyou and how best to help them
integrate with the other peoplein your organization and how to
best benefit your organization.
Like you have to be able to be.
Like I can't oh, I didn't codethe website, so you know I'm

(49:51):
worthless.
No, I found the best personhere to do that and this best
person to write copy and thisbest person to develop, um, you
know, marketing campaigns andthis.
You get where I'm going with it, so those.
That, for me, is how I'm ableto um juggle things.

(50:11):
And then I also realized, too,that you raise kids once and
that's the most impactful thing,in my opinion, that you do
while you're on earth.
Period.
I love my job, but and and youknow any CEO or president that
has kids I think you know thosethat don't yet Any.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
CEO or president that has kids.
I think those that don't yetmay not understand that, but
they don't ever play secondfiddle.
Let me ask you guys this, justto bring this back to grit,
which is in kind of sustainingthings long term.
Is that eroding as a society?
We've talked in differentepisodes about the dopamine
chasing and what was the moviethat you referenced with the

(50:52):
people and going around intheir-.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Oh yeah, WALL-E, WALL-E, yes.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
I think delayed gratification is becoming more
and more a lost art, because youtalk about this Some of the
stuff at work.
The reason it's fun is we gethit with dopamines as we're
solving problems andaccomplishing things right.
As a society is grit becomingmore and more a thing of the
past.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah, I mean yeah, and I say that fairly
definitively.
How can it not?
You know, I think that's abenefit of growing up when we
grew up is that we didn't haveas many distractions.
I think, you know, and as youage you realize more that you

(51:36):
can't rush the process, and sogrit kind of naturally becomes
part of your being.
But, man, you know, I look atour children collectively and
kids in that age range, and,granted, most people don't have
grit at that age, but I, I see alot less of it, um, even even

(51:57):
the beginnings of it, you know,at that age, because there's so
many shortcuts to satisfactionsatisfaction and then, like you
said, the delayed gratification.
That's hard man, that's, that'ssomething that really takes time
to master and I think, even asparents, we have trouble
enforcing delayed gratificationyou know, it's oh, I'm gonna

(52:19):
make you wait two days insteadof you know two minutes, or I
mean everything in life, man,from product shipping to the
availability of food, to theavailability of content, to oh,
it's unbelievable.
So I'm not saying we're better,I'm saying I don't know how
anybody maintains it with what'savailable today.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah, I think society has set a new norm of more of
an instant gratification.
I don't know how you teach.
I think, when you ask thatquestion, what I think of is how
do you instill grit?
What were the things that wedid growing up that were just
natural, that built more gritinto us to do things long-term

(53:03):
Cause?
I, I would agree with you that Idon't believe grit is common,
and you do see the social mediaand the different places saying
hey, you know, sign up for thiscourse.
Like, become a coach.
Like you know, everyone'strying to find the easy button
into a job, a role, to to gethere, from here to here as quick

(53:23):
as humanly possible, whichwe've all talked about, isn't
very realistic, at least in ourexperience.
It's not something that happensovernight and it takes years
upon years, upon years.
And I'm not saying you can't,one of those couldn't work for
someone, and they're one of thefirst ones.
And they figure something outor they go viral and boom, it
takes off, but 99% of the timeit probably isn't.

(53:45):
So I, I, I would be interestedto understand what things in our
upbringing or what things thatwe could do for the next
generation to help build kids umwith grit.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
I mean, I could talk a little bit about some of the
stuff that we've done with Kay,because she has that in her.
I don't know how much of that'sintrinsic, but it's really
recognizing what is priority atthat age, which is play and fun

(54:23):
and exploration.
How do you weave that in in a ameaningful way?
We her and I actually talkedabout this yesterday.
We went on a five mile run andI was talking to her about just
running in general and you knowhow she's able, or how she's
been able to to kind of progresslike she has and I think it's.

(54:46):
You know, we started withsomething easy.
We started with, um, somethingdigestible, that like running
the mile a day.
Because for her, you know, Iasked her yesterday, um, sorry
for digressing there a littlebit, as we were running I'm, you
know she was fixated on fourmiles and she didn't want to run

(55:08):
four and a quarter.
It was like the end of theworld.
And I said I just asked her.
I said, well, what is the likewe're talking about three
minutes, you know like in a day.
You know I can't as an adultunderstand that.
And she's like well, dad, Idon't want to feel like I'm
missing out and because it's nottop priority for them.
So she's like, well, that threeminutes they could be jumping
on the trampoline and I'mmissing out, or they could be at

(55:29):
the pool and I'm missing out.
And so it's like, at that age,helping them either integrating
those things that they feel likethey're missing out on to
integrating friends andcommunity, into whatever
consistent endeavor you wantthem to pursue, chunking up
those things in smaller bites.

(55:50):
So, as they're younger, youknow, they get used to the mile
a day thing.
Right, she gets used to 10minutes a day when she's eight,
um, or eight minutes a day.
It doesn't have to be running,it could be anything, but doing
it consistently.
Let's go shoot for 10 minutes aday and then that builds.
And then, you know, so it's anart, right, and it's spending a
lot of time thinking about it.
You know, I know Noah has someof the same proclivities.

(56:19):
So, with with Kay, that's howwe've done it and we're we're
continuing to listen to her andand then to help her and the
kids recognize the fruits oftheir labor, right, you know,
look at your progressionthroughout time and understand
that is the result of your hardwork.
And oh, by the way, there aregoing to be failures.
She's going to come into trackseason here and she's not going

(56:40):
to be as fast as she thinks sheis.
I know that because I can seeher confidence and that's going
to be a little bit of a setback,but then she's going to be able
to look back and assess thesituation.
Bake you know what?
I took some shortcuts here.
Maybe it means enough.
Maybe success means enough tome to fix that going forward.
And then that's when you growthat capacity to be more gritty
and to be um more successfullong-term.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
So it takes time, I would say.
First, it takes time for kidsand anyone to learn that, and I
would say for me, the best wayfor kids to learn grit and
delayed gratification is forthem to experience it, and I
think that's what TJ just talkedthrough and I think, as we've
just been talking, there's noshortcuts.

(57:22):
There's no shortcuts to thateither.
You have to hold their handthrough that process and you
have to provide all the toolsyou can for them to experience
enough motivation until they getto that point where they can
experience that delayedgratification.
So Noah is an example where Ihave had to spend a lot of time
crafting like different funprograms for him that give him

(57:48):
something to shoot for andsomething to be excited about
until the progress and he canactually feel and see that.
So I remember last year hewould not go out and practice
golf on his own, which isprobably reasonable.
He's 10 years old who wants togo out and just grind and
chipping and putting, and so wehad happened to be listening to
this book by Tim Grover, who isMichael Jordan's.

(58:10):
Noah loves Michael Jordan, so Iwas tapping into some of his
interests there.
He was his trainer and he hasthese different types of people
that he talked about, of closersand cleaners.
And there was one othercategory that I yeah great book,
one other category that I'mspacing.
But I created this program forNoah.

(58:32):
He could go out and do a closersession or a cleaner session
and there were short game andlong game and you know, hit 10
out of 15, you know, out of 15shots, you need to hit 10 within
.
You know three feet if you'rechipping or go out.
And so created this programwhich, again, I was initially
frustrated, like why is he notgoing out and practicing Like

(58:53):
he's got?
We've been working on golf forso long, he's got so much
potential.
And like it was, it was I.
My frustration was directed athim and it should have been
directed at myself.
It's like I need to be betterto step up and help him through
this.
So I finally went through thatwhole cycle of emotion and
realized it was me and so I givehim this program that allows
him to go out and really growhis golf game.

(59:18):
And then, when it came fall, sothat was like early summer when
he finally started to get outthere.
And then it came fall when heperformed in his U S kids
tournaments way better than hedid in the spring.
You know he was finishing topfive.
He probably got four or fivemedals in the fall, when I think
maybe he got one in the spring.
And so then he's experiencingthat gratification, but it took

(59:39):
a lot of handholding and took alot of time and energy and
effort, self-reflection,vulnerability, to get him to
experience that.
And now that starts to buildright.
And the same thing in basketball.
He does a lot of training and alot of things and I again, we
had to find some ways to keephim excited and engaged about it
.
He last year in the spring heplayed on primetime's gray team,

(01:00:02):
which was their fourth team,actually played on their white
team, which was their fourthteam, actually played on their
white team, which was theirthird, and then he dropped to
the gray team, to the fourthteam, and so here we are, and
and, but he stuck with it.
We've, we found creative waysto keep them engaged and then he
just made the silver team,which is the second team.
So he jumped two teams andthat's that.
He experienced that.
Wow, I worked this hard.

(01:00:23):
Here's the progress, here's thedelay gratification, and I
think when you can get them toexperience that.
Then it just starts to compound.

Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
You know.
I think that brings up a pointto me that I'd like to talk to
you guys about, which is thesecondary benefits of of of grit
, right?
So you talked a lot about andyou've talked a lot about this
in a lot of certain scenarios,about dealing with risk and and
and sleepless nights.
But and maybe you can expoundon this, that would lead me to

(01:00:50):
you're also you've also becomevery, very risk tolerant, right?
So you can take risks nowbecause you've probably been
through some things and I thinkthat's a secondary benefit of
grit.
So maybe expound on that alittle bit and like what some of
the side benefits have beenfrom going through some of those
long-term struggles.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
I think we've talked about it Like the body and the
mind are both incredible from astandpoint of I think you adapt
to things that you put yourselfin right, like whether it's heat
acclimation when you're runningor you know.
So for me, I think I guess inany area of my life where I've
forced myself out there andthat's that initial push that

(01:01:29):
the next time I do it it getseasier.
The next time I do it it getseasier.
There's a few fundamentalthings when I'm looking at risk
that I kind of have a chart ofhow I approach it.
There's certain things I won'tdo and there's certain things I
will do and there's littlethings that say this is a 50-50,
but if it has these threethings in it, then it checks the

(01:01:50):
boxes.
So I've done it enough now whenI've bought enough businesses
or done enough things to where Ido have somewhat of a formula.
But my ability to handle hardsituations and to take risk is
directly correlated with justhaving experience doing it right
, because when you risk is likeyou don't, it's the unknown

(01:02:13):
right.
There's a fear of the unknownof what if.
Well, if you take risk all thetime and you start to realize
like well, I've painted thisreally bad picture of this is
how, like, if this doesn't workout, this is the worst case
scenario.
I don't think I've knock onwood.
I've never seen the worst casescenario and so sometimes it's

(01:02:34):
not as bad as you think itactually was.
So I've learned to navigatethat as I've grown and I've had
more and more experience of whatthe actual risk is.
And then the more I do it, theeasier it gets.
I think that's the biggestsecondary benefit, right, there
is certainly the primary benefitof grit is you get to achieve
these things that you'restriving to do over long periods

(01:02:57):
of time.
I think the biggest secondarybenefit is that grit gets easier
.
The more you grind, the easierthe grind gets in any areas of
life, because you are trainingand adapting your brain to that.
I want to ask a follow-upquestion of you both.
I'm just interested as wepontificate about this, because
you have a lot of generationsthat think, oh my gosh, we were

(01:03:18):
like this, we walked uphill toschool both ways and we did this
, and they kind of chastise thenext generation for not having
that quality or characteristic.
But in a lot of reasons or in alot of situations, it's not
that big a deal, right?
The society's adapting,generation's adapting.
So I would ask you guys, as welook about grit we talk about
grit eroding as a society and itbeing very difficult to instill

(01:03:39):
in kids what are the potentialimplications like societally?
Is there a real impact there?
How do we see, from a macroperspective, that changing
dynamics within families orwithin societies, or just
overall progress?
How do we see if there'sanything that you guys can think

(01:04:02):
of, how that will, and if it'sas big of a deal as we're we're
making it out to be like we usedto talk about we'd go, we'd all
, we were outside, we would playall the time outside and this
and everyone's just playingscreens.
Now, we did play our fair shareof screens in the basement,
right, but there's those are thetypes of things that I talk
about, that we kind of reminisceabout having this sorts of, or
its characteristics.
Is the fact that people may nothave as much grit in 10, 20, 30

(01:04:25):
years going to be that big of adeal?
And, if so, where do we seethat manifesting?

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Well, I'm going to take this one off the rails,
sorry, because I've beenthinking about this a lot.
What is this is kind ofrhetorical.
We've done a lot of hard things, a lot physically,
business-wise.
There's one thing that we'reexperiencing now that is by far
and away the hardest thingyou'll ever do in life, and

(01:04:51):
that's raising your kids.
Like from a grit perspective,it's just constant.
Everybody's kids are different,everybody's situations are
different, and that is and Iwonder now, granted you know
we're, you guys are very earlymillennial.
I'm kind of on that Gen Xborder there, as technology has

(01:05:15):
advanced, which I think a lot ofpeople categorize as the
catalyst to this lack of grit.
If you will right this instantgratification to this lack of
grit, if you will right thisinstant gratification, is that
why we're seeing and from what Iunderstand from the content
I've digested a prettysignificant decrease in the
decision to have kids.

(01:05:36):
Okay, this is where I'm verycurious from a societal impact,
and we may have to cut this outof the podcast entirely, I don't
know.
So you have a lot of peoplethat maybe see their friends and
the struggles.
They're at a party with afriend who's got an infant, who
can't participate at all becausethey're at that infant's beck
and call or they invite friendsto do things and the friends

(01:05:59):
can't do things for weeks andweeks in advance because they
have to plan it around theirkids' sports and they're like I
don't want any part of thatbecause it sounds hard and I
have to do it for at least 18years, right, or 17, or 16 or 25
.
And I wonder if that's why thisis again kind of out there.
We're seeing what seems to bean extreme focus on the

(01:06:33):
well-being of people that aren'trelated to us.
So what I mean by that is maybewe're wired from an
evolutionary standpoint to beparents.
There are things that there'sthis inner drive to exert our
will on something, to bring itup the right way, and we have

(01:06:55):
all these people that are notdoing that because they're
afraid of this long-termchallenge.
And that's why we see a lot ofvery overzealous concern about
marginalized communities outthere.
Because we're taking that innerdesire to be parents.

(01:07:15):
It doesn't get, you know,driven out through the
traditional channels ofsomething that's very difficult
and instead it's manifestingitself in again this extreme
concern.
And so when you say, when thatquestion is posed, how do you
see this potentially affectingit.

(01:07:37):
I see that as a major factor.
So I mean that's kind of outthere.
But I'd be interested in yourguys' takes.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
I mean that's really interesting.
So you're saying kids choosingand people choosing to have
fewer kids, if kids at all, is apotential implication, and I
would stretch to say some ofwhat you said.
Maybe even the quality of theparenting potentially could be
impacted.
I mean we've seen thatgenerational trend now for
several I mean our parents andparents' parents it was 12, 10,

(01:08:06):
8, 7, 6 kids.
Now you see that in Catholiccommunities, but that's really
one of the few pockets where yousee, because that seems just
unbelievably, I mean it seems sooverwhelming.
Now, in generations where 80%of the US were farmers and you
were working 12, 12 hour days,the idea of 12 kids probably

(01:08:27):
didn't seem all thatintimidating, or 10 or eight,
but now you know, more than twoseems like what am I doing to
myself?
So it's just a reallyinteresting observation that
potentially that has been thattrend.
But, trent, well, I think aboutwhat you just said is people
used to have kids and a lot ofkids because they helped.

(01:08:47):
The more kids they had, themore they helped in whatever it
is, and now it has shifted to Igot more things to take care of.
Right, like it's more of a Ihave to do this for all these
kids and take them all theseplaces and do all these things,
versus the kids were helping theparents and they were helping
add to the value of the family.
I think it's a fascinatingquestion Is the lack of grit

(01:09:14):
going to change and see adecline in population over a
long period of time?
Because people are more focusedon themselves and they don't
have that innate desire and kidshave become more of a burden
than a help, which I thinkthat's a fundamental shift?
Yeah, and I think what'sinteresting I'll just share from
our time in the Dominican, alot of third world countries are

(01:09:37):
still having high numbers ofkids, partially because of the
lifestyles they live.
Now I say that kind of out oftwo sides of my mouth because I
know that is some of the problemwith generational poverty.
When you have five, six, sevenkids by the time you're in your
mid-20s, it's very hard to getout of that.
So I don't want to say that'snecessarily a bad or a good
thing, but it just.
There's an interesting element.

(01:09:57):
It does kind of support thetrend that, relative to the
difficulty of the life thatthey're living on a daily basis,
there may be a correlation andagain, we're not experts or
scientists or whatever.
We've not done the studies, butit would be interesting to look
further into a potentialcorrelation between quality of
life and kind of populationgrowth.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
There's obviously a ton of variables there, but oh,
it's just, it's such afascinating thing to explore.
I mean, it's such a I don'tknow it's such a unique
situation to explore.
I mean it's such a I don't know, it's such a unique situation,
like I was saying, I think aboutit a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:10:30):
What about the quality of parenting?
So we talked about maybe maybethere are still people, if
they're having fewer kids,they're still having kids, or
maybe some some aren't.
But for those that are like, dowe feel like as parents and I
mean I'm not, I'm not excusingourselves from this I mean I
think we probably are morechallenged to as we've just
talked about today to reallyengage and do some of those more

(01:10:54):
difficult parenting things.
I mean you just said that's themost difficult thing we do
today.
I would guess two or threegenerations ago parenting wasn't
the most difficult, or severalgenerations ago wasn't the most
difficult aspect of life.
But now that it is like, how doyou see equality of parenting?
And again, in what ways doesthat manifest and how do we, how

(01:11:15):
do we dodge that bullet?

Speaker 2 (01:11:18):
I remember a quote from years ago that somebody put
on Facebook and this has beenat least a decade, and I
probably mentioned this quote toyou guys before, but I think
it's relevant here and it wassomebody at the time that was in
their teens, comparing theirexperience with today's societal
struggles, with being on thefront lines in World War II, and

(01:11:40):
it seems so absurd to me.
I'm like what are you talkingabout?
What do you mean?
You have it tough with youriPad and your whatever, whatever
, and these people were dying,you know to, for the freedom.
But then I mentioned to Taraand she's like well, think about
it a little bit.
Um, you know, it may not be asas this.
The space may not be ascavernous as you think it is,

(01:12:03):
you know, with the permanency ofyour life being captured online
and the potential ridicule tofollow if you do something.
I mean, we see it today a lot.
But I think back to the.
I do not, and we're in it, Iguess right, but I don't envy
the parents that are comingafter us and I don't envy the

(01:12:24):
parents coming before us,because I think we're finally in
the generation that's seeingthe recoil of what happened when
we didn't understand the impactof technology.
We didn't understand when Imean fighting the urge like not
knowing the benefits or nothaving done the cost benefit
analysis or the benefit weighingthe risks and benefits to an

(01:12:47):
iPad and, as a parent 10 yearsago, just throwing it to your
kid.
I mean you dealt with it withRoman.
Probably you didn't know,nobody knew back then, like it
was just man, this is a lot ofwork.
Here's an easy solution and oh,by the way, there's educational
stuff on here and it's going tohelp with hand-eye coordination
and yada, yada, yada, like thatwas a big thing.
We're finally in the generationwhere we're at now starting to

(01:13:09):
see a little bit of a recoil andokay, the time limits and
screen time pass all thesethings.
And then you know thegeneration after us is going to
face.
You know even more challengesthat relate as it relates to,
you know, delayed gratification,and I mean man is there any way

(01:13:35):
to use technology to offsetthis Right?

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
So, like one of my things with, eternize is okay,
technology is causing all thesedistractions.
We're pulled into this societalvortex.
We're running around likechickens with our head cuts off,
trying to do everything.
And then here's a technology wecan deploy that vibrates at
some point during the day andjust allows you to recenter, to
reset, to reground yourselfspiritually or however you want

(01:13:59):
to do that.
That was an attempt by me We'llsee how much that plays out
into reality to take technologyand use it as a catalyst to kind
of restore some of those, um,some of that mindfulness, I
guess.
Is there a way to use tech?

(01:14:20):
You think there's a way to usetechnology or for parents,
ourselves or in futuregenerations, to use ai or other
technologies to offset, to maybemake it easier to be a great
parent?
I I don't know um the answer tothat, um to go back to your
original question, I wonder ifour parents cared about.

(01:14:47):
They probably cared, caredabout.
I feel like people are obsessedwith the outcome of their
children because of social media, it's like this, this huge
comparison thing, and they gotto we talked about in one of the
episodes.
Take.
They want all their kids totake the four lane highway to,
you know, doing good in school,doing good in college, making
good money, starting a family.
I feel like that is somethingthat our generation focuses on,

(01:15:11):
a ton which I think drives someof this craziness.
I wonder if our parents, ortheir parents, man, they were
like Grandpa Jim was.
You know, he worked, he hadseven or eight kids and he
worked three jobs and all he wasfocused on was just making sure
there was food on the table.
I wonder how much grandpa Jimthought about.
I wonder if my son, jeff or Timor Pete or Fred were, are going

(01:15:35):
to make it like versus like.
Right now, I feel like there'sso much focus on the outcome of
our kids and there's so much ofour identity tied to the outcome
of our kids.
Um, I think there's got to besomething there.
I'm not sure what it is I don'tknow.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
I think the next 20 years, from a purpose
exploration standpoint, aregoing to be critical because
we're going to have to find, asI think, as humans, there will
be people, certain people thathave to find different purposes
and passion around differentpurposes.
You know, what are things thathumans can do that you know

(01:16:12):
computers can't replicate, andthat's going to be.
I don't know if, if you know,we can leverage technology to
help us find those things, or ifit's going to kind of come out
in the wash as we see how thesedifferent technologies evolve
and we see where theirshortcomings are and then we can
.
I mean, physical fitness isalways going to be right, like I

(01:16:34):
think there's something onething you've seen over the years
is that there is an inherentdisinterest in, um, robotic, uh
fitness endeavors, like thatbasketball machine from Honda or
somebody that can hit shots,like you see, but nobody cares.

(01:16:55):
Like if that machine hits 100threes in a row, nobody really
cares.
Like everybody looks past thatkind of in a similar way that
people have kind of you caninstantly recognize AI art.
You know you're seeing wheresome of these shortcomings are
and you're seeing where humansjust don't necessarily.
You know, oculus, right.
Or Google Glass there'ssomething about.
Or Apple Vision Pro there'ssomething about, things that

(01:17:15):
people wear on their face.
They just don't, it justdoesn't quite resonate.
So I think, over time technology, we may leverage it in a way
that we're using it as this kindof roadmap for where we can
find more passion and purposeand then, once that's achieved,
then we can, like you,leveraging some of the things

(01:17:38):
you and I talked about earlierwith our kids.
Then we can help nudge them downthose paths, knowing that
eventually they're going to findcomfort and solace in the fact
that they are seeing progressiondown paths that have meaning,
as opposed to paths that don't.
Because I wonder, with schoolnow you know, I mean, I get it

(01:18:00):
why I have chat, gpt or Grok orGemini or whatever, at my
fingertips.
That is going to answer all ofthe questions I need answered
for the most part as it relatesto what would traditionally be
offered from a testingperspective in school.
What am I doing?
You know, and I don't think wequite know yet where we're going

(01:18:23):
to need to go, and but once wedo that, I think you know so.
So that's maybe how I see usingtechnologies.
It's kind of more of a, aroadmap and a self-fulfilling
prophecy.

Speaker 1 (01:18:35):
There's a ton to think about man.
That may be a good place to uh,yeah, I think we put a wrap on
it, wow.
So thank you guys.
I think for me, grit, passion,perseverance over a long period
of time we've all experiencedthat in some ways.

(01:18:57):
It isn't easy and, as we'vetalked about, I'm not sure we're
doing a great job of instillingthat even in the next
generation, not sure we're doinga great job of instilling that
even in the next generation.
But it does play a part in allof our journeys and trying to
have the patience to kind ofgrind through that to get that
long-term fulfillment, I thinkit's even more meaningful when
it takes a long period of time.

(01:19:17):
So thanks for tuning in today.
That's a wrap on episode 14.