🎙️Episode 15: Learning in the Age of AI: How Should We Prepare Our Children?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Daily Edge where we bring you the
latest insights, opinions andthought-provoking conversations
to give you that competitiveedge in life, business and
beyond.
Let's go, welcome to the DailyEdge.
I'm sitting here with mybrothers, tj Daly and Todd Daly,
and today we're going to talkabout education.

(00:28):
There's a lot of stuff going onin the news with the Department
of Education the reform, I thinkus with having, you know, 10
kids between all three of us.
We're living in the world welive in, with technology and
changes and understanding someof the landscape.
From time to time we're askingquestions like does the
traditional education systemthat we've been on or I honestly

(00:53):
I don't know if the educationhas changed the way they've gone
about it for probably 50 yearsIs it relevant?
You know, those are the thingsthat I'm the questions I'm
asking.
I have one child particularthat is begging to be
homeschooled and so, as we gothrough and see our kids and
what they're learning now, wouldlove to start a little
conversation around, maybe, thecurrent education system and how

(01:15):
we can, how we are preparingour kids for the future and what
things we're missing, on what'sgood about school, what's not,
and just have a good old debatearound the current education
system.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
You know, I'd like to start, I guess, by maybe giving
a little bit of background,because all of our kids are in
unique situations.
Your kids, at least up throughmiddle school gone to private
school.
You know, my kids have been inpublic schools since basically
day one, and, todd, you've had alittle bit of both and you have
kids that are in kind of a, Iwould say, a private school with

(01:50):
a very specific focus.
So maybe talk a little bitabout those particular areas of
expertise, and I say areas ofexpertise only in the fact that
we have kids in those systems.
Not that we thoroughlyunderstand all the nuance from
an administrative standpoint orlesson plan standpoint, but
maybe you guys jump off and kindof talk about what your

(02:14):
situation is right now and thenwe can dive into the specifics.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yeah, I think the most important thing you said
there is we certainly do notcome into this conversation with
a wealth of experience in thesystem.
We're more consumers of thesystem.
So our mom was probably theclosest thing.
Our mom was a teacher and aguidance counselor is probably
the closest proximity to we haveto those that are deploying the
system.
I know there's been a lot ofhot topics around that and what

(02:42):
some of the politicaladministration is doing and not
doing in that realm andstandardized testing and all
that kind of stuff.
So we'll get into that Onething.
Well, I guess I'll just sharekind of my situation with our
kids started at a local Catholicschool, I would say our oldest.

(03:07):
We started to see signs ofissues with his proximity to
failure.
He's, I would say, one of hisgifts, he's pretty cognitively
gifted and what we were findingis school was coming very easily
to him and he wasn't having toget any sort of proximity to

(03:29):
things that challenged him orthat he struggled with and that
was starting to impact manyareas of his life.
The fear of failure was reallybuilding and that we felt was
going to be really problematicfor him just from a life
perspective.
So we made a shift to put himin a school another private
school that really challengedhim academically and gave him

(03:53):
that proximity to failure.
I mean, they're in school 40hours a week during the or you
know close to it during the weekand so with that much time,
anything that you'reexperiencing in that amount of
time is going to be veryimportant to how you're
developing.
Obviously that's not includingthe summers, but what we found
with him in putting him in thatenvironment is he did get much

(04:16):
more comfortable with failureBecause he went from everything
coming easy to really having tothink about things, having to be
willing to try things that hewasn't going to be good at
initially, and I think thatunlocked some things for him
athletically and just in otheraspects of life.
It really broke down that fearof failure, that proximity of

(04:37):
failure.
So we have kind of followed thattrend for our other two.
Kind of we stumbled into that.
Honestly that wasn't our intent.
We were going to have him dothat, but we ended up holding
our second back a year.
He was an April birthday so hewould have been very young.

(04:58):
We held him back a year and wedid have experience with
Montessori school.
He went to Montessori for ayear, which is a little bit of a
different school as well.
But when we went to put himback in the private school, the
Catholic school, there was await list and then he happened
to test well into the other, andso we're now kind of following

(05:18):
that trend and the logistics ofhaving them at their ages in
different schools would be tough.
So that's our situation.
Yeah, I have one kid in thepublic school system.
All my kids went to a localCatholic school as well.
I guess here in Grant Countythere's not a ton of different
options.
You've got a couple.
You can either homeschool,there's a couple of private

(05:42):
schools and then kind of there'sthe public school.
So my kids are in first grade,sixth grade, seventh grade and a
sophomore.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
So I'll touch on mine very quickly because I want to
get back to some of the.
I think you have the mostdynamic differences between the
two places that your kids are inschool right now, so I'd love
to explore that a little bitdeeper.
But, um, my three kids havebeen in public school.
They went to a privatepreschool, but I think most
preschools are private anymore.
Um, they've been in publicschool since day one.

(06:13):
Um, they are in a very largeschool system.
So, uh, in our County there are20,000 kids across five high
schools, so the school systemsare very large.
They will have 1,000 kids intheir grades going into high
school.
And still, my fifth grader has150 kids in her school in fifth

(06:34):
grade right now and most of theclasses are that size.
So it's very unique in thatregard because of its size and
is also very regimented.
This was one of the firstschool systems, I think, even
when we were kids, that startedfocused on the standardized
testing.
We also live in a communitythat is starting to explore
homeschool a little bit more.
So, with that said, I'd like tokind of go back to where I was

(06:56):
earlier.
You know, like you said, youhave a kid begging to be
homeschooled.
I know we've talked throughthat kind of at length.
There was a point in time whereyou were thinking about
homeschooling everybody and Ithink that plays into what the
landscape of the job market isgoing to look like and what's
going to be important and what'snot going to be important.
So maybe talk through.

(07:16):
I mean, there's a lot to unpackthere, right.
There's the difference and thejuxtaposition between the Marion
Public Schools and St Paul, andthen there's the desire to be
homeschooled and what thebelieved benefits would be there
.
So I'd like to just start there.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
Yeah, let me just say one thing I don't.
If we did homeschool our kids,or if we do in the future, it's
not because I feel like theschool systems around here are
failing us.
It's like, oh, I don't wantthem to go to Marion or we have
five local high schools in GrantCounty.
You guys have 20,000 kids.

(07:53):
We probably have 2,005 highschools, so I would never.
So I just wanted to be clear.
If we ever decided tohomeschool, it wasn't because we
didn't have good, good optionshere.
There are really good schoolsystems here that are doing a
really, really good job.
I think for me in my professionand what I see and the jobs that

(08:13):
I see, I'm always questioningwhat are the skill sets that our
kids are going to need to besuccessful?
Right To your point earlier ina different episode, it's like
well, we don't have to memorizea ton anymore.
We have ChatGPT or Grok or anyof the other Gemini we do not

(08:36):
have.
So when school was developedinto what it is today, which was
at Thomas Jefferson era, like,do we have any idea?
Like when the the traditionalschool model, which was to learn
math and he wanted everyone tolearn math and to write.
Maybe you can look that up, butit's probably been 50 or 60
years and we were trainingeveryone to have these basic

(08:59):
skills.
Not everyone could read orwrite right Like that's a, a
communication skill that youwould need to be able to
communicate with people, and so,when that all started, they
were equipping people forcertain roles and
responsibilities in society atthat point in time.
Well, here we are, arguably 50,60, 70 years later.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
A hundred.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, it could even be a hundred, I have no clue.
And do you got a date?
Go ahead.
I'll share the backgroundshortly.
Yeah, and so I'm not sure thatwhat the kids are going through
and what they're learning is asapplicable now as it once was.
There are some really goodthings, I believe, in school

(09:45):
that discipline, how to workwith other kids, how to, you
know, get on a playground andget hit in the head with a ball
or, you know, get made fun of.
Like there's some criticalthings of putting.
We're putting our kids in acommunity, right.
I mean, that's basically whatyou do and you're choosing your
community of where you want yourkids to spend time, and they're

(10:06):
developing critical skills onhow to work with other kids,
right.
I think that is one of thebiggest benefits, regardless of
what you do.
That is something that I thinkyou can't put a price on.
So I think my whole strugglewith all of this is trying to
look into the future, 10 to 15years, where we know where AI is

(10:27):
now and they say every sixmonths it's going to double or
triple, with robotics cominginto play.
What are those different roles?
What are the skill sets ourkids are going to need to be
successful, and what is the bestway that I can prepare my kids
for those situations?
And and so, being in the rolethat I'm in and seeing what I
see, I'm constantly questioningthat.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
You mentioned community and putting our kids
in community and working withdifferent people and the other
thing too, I think there isexperiencing different, let's
call it management styles.
It's teaching styles, but youhave all these different kinds
of teachers.
You have very passive teachersthat just you know.
You can tell retrospectively,looking back, that he's probably
past, like Mr Kumar in Marion,he didn't do anything, he just

(11:15):
kind of sat there and let you dowhatever, and then you have
teachers that are much moreinvolved and engaged and whatnot
.
But we talk about communitiesand I'd like to explore briefly,
just as we're, as we, before wemove to this next segment.
You know I talked earlier aboutyour kids different environments
.
What benefits from a communityand or social perspective,

(11:38):
benefits and or detractors doyou see between Cause I, I, we
lived this right I had an eighthgrade class of 12, and then I
had a freshman class of 400.
What benefits do you see rightnow, with your girls in Isaiah
that are currently in thatsmaller elementary environment,
versus the benefits that Roman'sgetting being in a much more

(12:01):
diverse and even tense scenario?

Speaker 1 (12:07):
There is a very diverse.
Well, where they go to schoolnow is very diverse, both at the
private school and at thepublic school, so they're both
getting that, which I think is areally good thing.
What you hit on is like whenyou're in a small class, you,
depending on who's in your classyou can get stuck with.
I don't want to call it a badclass, but like when you have 12

(12:32):
to 15 kids, like there can beone or two dynamics that could
really shape their experience.
We had completely differentexperiences when we went to
school, right, I was in a classthat had a bunch of kids that
were probably more like me andwe had a lot more in common and
we just had a good parentinvolvement and so forth.
And so I'm noticing that withmy kids as they went through St

(12:53):
Paul.
They are having differentexperiences based on who was in
their class.
So I think that is very, veryreal.
I don't know how different thatis from a much larger school
system, but I do believe thatthe people there was a saying
that they say you don't chooseyour friends because you're

(13:13):
basically, when you're younger,they're whoever you put in your
classroom, right, like there's.
So I think there's some of thatthat I'm not 100% certain.
You have a lot of control over,regardless of situation.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
I wonder, with the size of I think we've seen this
in our community and I wonderabout this At a high school with
6,000 kids, like a Carmel,you're going to be able to find
your group to reinforce whateverit is, and I think there's good
and bad and I'd love for youguys to kind of expound on that.

(13:50):
You know, I think there'spotentially a right size where
there's a scenario.
You know, when you're in with12, it can be very difficult but
you are forced to adapt.
And even with 400, you know, ifyou have very specific
interests or very specificpersonality quirks, there are
times that you're not going tonecessarily be able to find

(14:11):
people that completely identifywith who you are as a person.
So you're going to have tomaybe shift and learn how to
blend and be social a little bit, versus when you have a school
of 6,000.
If you're into this very tinylittle specific thing and you
have this perspective on life,you're going to find five or six
people that kind of share thatwith you.
I wonder if that's a disserviceor not.

(14:32):
What are your guys'perspectives on that?
Do you feel like part of highschool is learning to adapt and
thrive no matter what, or is itbetter to have a situation where
you can maybe not experience asmuch adversity, because it's

(14:53):
more like the internet right,when there's this infinite
number of people that can.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
I'd almost step back and look at what I think the
education system accomplishestoday and then I think it'll be
easier to answer that question.
In the context of that, I'd beinterested in your guys'
perspective, but I was just kindof taking notes on what are the
things that I feel like theeducation system accomplishes
today, and I would say one ofthe last things on the list is
actually equipping people withthe relevant skill sets to

(15:18):
actually go out and beimmediately productive in a job.
When you look at the thingsthat are being taught in school
even math and science and Iwould say probably the exception
here is reading and writingalthough with video consumption

(15:40):
these days and chat, gpt beingable to write for you those are
becoming less relevant Icertainly can't think of any
outside of very technicalprofessions like NASA, space
sort of things, where some ofthe science and math would come
into play.
But in the vast majority ofyour professions a lot of what's
taught in school is not afoundation.

(16:01):
Maybe at one point it was, butit's not a foundation for the
skills needed to perform on thejob.
So in my opinion, there are ahandful of things that I think
the education system does today.
One it teaches problem solving.
It doesn't necessarily teachyou a specific thing, but it
does teach you how to solveproblems, how to approach
problems creatively, how tothink differently about them.
I would say.
Two is a discipline.

(16:21):
It teaches you discipline theability to have to do things you
don't want to do and listen towhat someone else is telling you
.
Being able to followinstructions and execute on that
for a long period of time inwhat is not often an ideal
environment.
So to me, problem solving,discipline, social you guys have

(16:44):
touched on that a lot that'snot just social with peer groups
and just interacting withdifferent people, but, to your
point, you're the five peopleyou spend the most time around.
There's some differentstandards that are being set in
those communities, working withdifferent teachers, but there's
just the general social skills Ithink it offers.
Four, I would say, is confidence.
I think it is can be a sourceof confidence, either in some of

(17:11):
those social interactions or inwhen you're learning certain
concepts and you can masterthose concepts or gain those
concepts over time.
I think that does buildconfidence for people.
Now there's a, you know, ifobviously someone's not
excelling academically, I thinkthere can be at least relative
to their peers.
That can actually have acounterproductive effect.
But I think generally, as youlearn things and you're learning
to do things that you couldn'tdo before, I think it does aid

(17:31):
in confidence in some fashion.
And last but not least is yourability to retain information.
We talked in a prior episodeabout generations back when you
know, prior to Christianity,when they were incredible at
memorizing like hundreds ofpages at a time of different
things.
So the memorization side of ityou brought up.
Memorization is not so muchactually what you're memorizing,

(17:53):
but that ability to retaininformation.
We were at a basketballtraining thing the other day and
the coach the trainer wasbasically saying it's not the
kids you know who have the mosttalent that win.
It's the ones who can retainthe information that the coach
is giving them on how to getbetter and not to repeat those
mistakes, because they'reretaining that information and

(18:13):
they're able to execute.
In short, so when I look atwhat the school system offers to
me, those are the handful ofthings that jump out and I would
be interested in your guys'take on that, maybe to uh before
we go any further, if you guyswould align with that or how you
would change that.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
I think it depends on the educator.
And I'll say this I don't knowhow you solve this problem or if
it's solvable.
You know, I mean, one of thethings that comes up ad nauseum
when you talk about teachers iscompensation, right, and the and
we saw that firsthand with ourmom Um, you know.
So how do you resolve that?
Or do you resolve that problem?
I will say this so mydaughter's fourth grade teacher,

(18:50):
my oldest, I was taken abackduring our first meeting with
him because he made the commenthe's like oh yeah, call me
anytime, call the school on aSaturdays, I'm normally here,
I'm like what you mean.
You're normally here onSaturdays, like, and not just
visiting, like.
They're for hours upon hours.
But when you talked earlierabout teaching life skills, this
guy is one of the mostpassionate people, driven people

(19:13):
.
He was a professional angler,so pro fisherman, and then got
into teaching.
But the kids pay rent on theirdesks, right, they have jobs to
execute in class and they getcompensated on those jobs based
on how well they do them.
There are penalties for certaintypes of behavior or certain
other things.
If you forget your charger foryour iPad, you have to rent that

(19:37):
charger, and if you haven'tmade money, then you go in debt,
like a lot of those things.
And he has gotten teacher of theyear for the entire school
system before and he's just likethis sought after person.
He's very, very it's.
It's a very stressfulenvironment when the kids first
get in there, but after everykid has this guy it's mr donnard

(19:59):
.
Um, he is like you know, andevery parent wants their kid to
get in this guy's class becausehe is recognized.
Yes, we have to prepare thesekids for the standardized tests
and again, at this point, whenyou talk about standardized
tests, I know I go on tangents,but to what end?
We'll talk about that a littlebit later but I think it's

(20:22):
educator dependent, as itrelates to some of those
relevant things you know asrelated to potential becoming a
functional member of societyoutside of school.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, that's incredible.
Yeah, what else would youchange about what you think the
school system, the valueproposition is today?
I can get behind those.
I I mean doing things that youdon't want to do discipline, the
social interaction,memorization I I still feel like
we're not teaching all theskill sets necessary, like to

(20:57):
hear you talk about that andlike the kids are learning
finance and debt and basicallyresponsibility, right, like life
skills that people need.
I think there's an awareness toit.
I don't think it's as common.
I think it's because the schoolsystem is so big.
I think it's really hard toshift and they're doing the best

(21:20):
they can to grade what they cangrade Like.
There's got to be some anytimethe government's involved.
There's got to be which I thinkthe government does drive a lot
of like they're saying if youdon't do this, you don't get
funded.
I think some of the schools areprobably more creative and more
forward thinking and want to domore, but they have to check
these boxes in order to get that, that funding from the state.

(21:40):
That's the most frustratingthing.
I think there are so manyincredible teachers out there
that have that creative geniusand could be teaching things
that are not only instillingthese things but also teaching
life skills.
And unfortunately, with the waythe government has regulated it
and again, I'm not taking a shotat the government either,

(22:02):
because I think you see this inany large company the larger you
get, the more you have at stakeand the more you're going to
orient yourself not to lose thanto kind of win.
What I mean by that.
The system's set up.
We've got to prove that we'reactually educating these kids,
and so that's this form ofstandardized tests.
When you do some of this otherstuff, I think it either takes a
very long time to develop andprove systematically that the

(22:25):
kids are learning the rightthings, or it's just very
subjective and hard to quantify.
And so I think in thosesituations I'm not saying that,
you know, I'm not going to sithere and say, oh, this is so
easy.
Why can't the government figurethis out?
Because it's very complex.
And again, large corporations.
I was at a Fortune 100 companyfor almost a decade and there
was all kinds of red tape.

(22:45):
I mean, there was all theseextra processes and you couldn't
do this and you had to do thisand you had to check this box
and that box.
Unfortunately, that's just aproduct of large institutions.
You have to have some sort ofcontrol, because not every
teacher's like Mr Donner.
You have others that that maybe given more freedom and
autonomy might not takeadvantage of it in the same way,

(23:06):
right.
And then you get a lot ofdisparity on kids' experience
and there's a lot of variabilitythere, and that gets tougher,
right, that's what they'relooking for is control and
consistency, as opposed toopening for some of those
higher-end experiences, andincredible credit to him for
being able to find a way to dothat within the confines of some
of the standardized tests andother things it's extremely

(23:29):
difficult to do.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
You know it's it's it's interesting with and maybe
again we're not saying it makessense one way or the other you
know a lot of the talk aroundthe department, department of
education stuff is bringing itback to the States and making it
smaller.
Whether that's the right thingto do or not, neither of us are
here to say that.
But, like you know, you talkabout red tape and big
organizations and it's it'sinteresting because again, we're

(23:50):
going to make this, I'm goingto make this a little bit
political.
We're seeing a lot of unrestright now about what's happening
in terms of people losing theirjobs, um, in government
specifically.
And you know, I wonder if thatstarts in school.
When you have these very likeI'm thinking of ours
specifically.
But even a school of a thousandkids, kids slip through the
cracks and I don't mean that ina traditional sense, like our

(24:14):
mom dealt with a lot where kidshave parents that are bringing
them to school and they'remissing out on the education,
foundational education but Ithink some kids learn how to
blend in and then that skillsettranslates into the workplace
and they learn how to blend inand do the least amount possible

(24:35):
and then that spirals intodepression because there's no
fulfillment, but you get reallygood at that and then you can
exist in jobs for decades andnobody even knows you're there.
You know office space comes tomind right, and that's kind of a
secondary learned skill set andprobably a result of these

(24:56):
institutions and this systembeing so big and so antiquated
and not, you know, serving aswell as it can, which I think
you know.
You don't see that as much youcan't blend in when there's 12
kids, like you know.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
How do you feel like it should be in the age graded
system?
So just a little bit of history.
So it was really in the late1700s.
Early 1800s was the first timethat there was kind of any sort
of education.
It's happened very local.
A lot of it sort of educationit happened very local.
A lot of it was religious-based.
It was religious-based and thenit evolved, I think and said in
1848 in Boston was the firstconcept of the age-graded school

(25:32):
system, and then in the late1800s and early 1900s that got
formalized, kind of nationwideand then there became laws.
I think in 1918 was when thathappened.
How important.
So obviously at that point intime they implemented a
curriculum that seemedappropriate for maybe some of
the life skills needed at thattime to survive.
I'm not sure.

(25:53):
But how important is it for youfeel, like the educational
curriculum to teach the lifeskills and or the job skills
versus some of these moregeneric skill sets, right?
So let's just say we're talkingin, you know, 2030 or 2040, we

(26:13):
think it's going to be moreabout relationships and being
able to be intentional and sohaving curriculum that really
lean into that versus again asystem that teaches some of
these underlying qualities andcharacteristics and then letting
the job market itself teachsome of those jobs, specific
pieces Like is that, howimportant is it?

(26:34):
I think it's a fascinatingquestion because, prior to
cities forming right, mostAmericans were farmers and they
learned what to do on the farmwhen they grew up from from
their family.
Right, they communicated, theywere farmers, this was their
role, this was their job, thiswas likely going to be their job
, and so, like then, citiesstarted to form right, and so

(27:00):
then it was like well, everyoneneeds to know how to read and
write and do basic things inorder.
So now we're transitioning to adifferent society.
I think the standard changesand so what was valued when
everyone was farming is now notas much valued, or there's
different things that people arevaluing and different skill
sets.
I mean, think about, right now,the people using AI versus the

(27:22):
people not using AI.
Right now, the people using AIversus the people not using AI.
Arguably, the people using AIare 10x more productive, more
informative, can get moreaccomplished than the people
that are not using AI right atthis moment.
And it's not even that far downthe road.
So I think there's a criticalcomponent of we have shifted

(27:43):
based on the needs of what wefelt was like.
Typing was one of those thingsthat we had to do.
We had to become good at typingbecause in our jobs we typed
all the time Like someone thatdid this couldn't do anything.
This, it wasn't important totype when manufacturing was the
backbone of society, right.
Well now, how often do you typetext messages?

(28:03):
I hit the button and I talk tomy phone.
I don't type anymore.
I still can type my kids videoand talking.
How important is typing goingto be in the future?
It may not be that important,and so I think there are some
critical skills that do evolveas we evolve as a society, and
one of those is simple.
It's like you need to know howto use your second power, which

(28:25):
is your AI module of choice, tobe able to help you be effective
, to answer questions, to giveyou a good place to start from a
reasoning and in a basestandpoint, and to understand
something.
So I do believe there's anopportunity to adjust how and
what we're currently teachingwithin the school.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
You mentioned something earlier and this is
another really weird take.
I've been all about weird takesin this episode, but you
mentioned confidence right, andthere are very few things
cognitively that we can, veryfew paths cognitively that we
can proceed down to generateconfidence with the way the
human brain is wired.
Communication is a foundationalpiece of our existence.

(29:08):
Mathematics has been instilledsince the 1500s as a
foundational element of theuniverse.
So here are two things thatwe've proven our brains are
wired to understand and succeedin.
So, while those particulardisciplines may not necessarily

(29:33):
be required from a day-to-dayfunctionality perspective, like
you said, we're not going tonecessarily.
We're not going to need tocontinue to write cursive.
We're not going to need tocontinue to learn how to type.
We're not going to need tocontinue to learn how to do

(29:54):
mathematical equations.
All of those are going to bedone for us via these mechanisms
.
But when it comes to differentways that we can build
confidence in cognitivecapabilities, what else is there
?
What other paths can we proceeddown?
So that's kind of.
My question is like maybe it'snot relevant, but if we're going

(30:16):
to build confidence in theagain, cognitive capacity, what
else do we use?
And maybe it's interaction withyour AI model of choice.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Well, I would say one of the things that I didn't
touch on, I felt like from thetime we graduated or maybe it
was mid-95s, to you say the dateI don't know when it ended, but
it was like college was whateveryone was supposed to do.
They really pushed college and,boy, if you didn't fit into
that college box, it was almostlike you were shunned.
What I'm seeing more now, whichI love, is there's a ton of

(30:48):
tech and trades and I think theschool is starting to a really
good job of that.
Like man, if you can figure outhow to get concrete finishers
or welders or, you know,plumbers or electricians, like
the trades man, they're alwaysgoing to be a need for people in
trades and I think those aregoing to be some of your higher
dollar valued people, becausehere's the deal You're going to

(31:11):
be able to replace, I think,lower level white collar jobs.
I was talking to one of my goodfriends and, like an attorney
that just focuses on estatesisn't going to be as necessary
because there's certain thingsthat attorneys do that are going
to be automated.
Now, if you're a specializedattorney and focusing on more
complex deals, you're going toso there's going to be some
lower level at administrativestuff that's going to be

(31:35):
replaced, but you're technical,like everyone lives in a house
and things are going to get moretechnical and being able to
understand that, and so I thinkthere's a huge opportunity for
continue for schools to continueto find pathways to place
people into the trade programs,and what I love about it is I
don't believe there is a stigmawith it.
I think people are like this isa viable opportunity and this

(31:57):
is a viable job and it's aneeded thing, and I think that's
one area that schools cancontinue to explore and some
have done a really, really goodjob.
How does AI impact over timewhen you think about
electricians, plumbers?

Speaker 2 (32:14):
I have actually not to cut you off, but I had this
conversation the other day.
So a good friend of mine wementioned a number of times a
unicorn.
He's an engineer and one of hisfrustrations with some of the
younger people in his world isthat you can put whatever into a
CAD system and you can.
You know you can create CADs oryou can utilize other again, I

(32:36):
use the word mechanisms orsoftware programs to calculate,
but he's like they don'tunderstand how things work
together in the real world.
Like you can, you can draw thisand you can draw this, but you
need to understand fundamentallyhow this would work if you
created it in the real world,and that is where things are
missing.
So, in terms of AI impacting it, like, I think, those types of

(32:58):
things where you can't just usethe dimensions or the technical
specifications to solve theproblem, you need to have an
understanding of, you know thatas it intertwines with physics,
or that as it intertwines withother disciplines.

(33:19):
I think that's where it getshard.
And then the other piece of thepuzzle that I don't think AI
can fix is you mentioned it in aprior podcast is the transfer
of excitement or sales.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
I just I to answer your question, todd.
I don't believe maybe AI comesinto place in training some of
those other roles, but I don'tbelieve AI is going to come in
and and you need someone to putin a outlet in your wall, right,
like you're going to still needthose people to physically show
up.
I was listening to somethingthe other day and it was talking

(33:53):
.
It was a lady who was aseasoned pilot and she had, you
know, a young pilot and they'relike they, this pilot, this
young pilot, has never flown aCessna and there was something
about flying an actual Cessnathat gives you this experience
and this feeling.
All of his training was done ona simulator and because and so

(34:14):
he was asking her, like, how tolike basically land a plane, in
some essence there was some AIand simulators were to your
point.
They were missing criticalexperiences to help them fully
understand a job.
So I think AI can be dangerousin training, but I think it's
the first place that's going tocome in is how do we train
people or how can we make thissimpler?

(34:35):
Oh well, how do I hook this up?
I put it in AI and it says oh,you put this wire to this wire
to this wire and it helps train.
But I think anytime you take ashortcut like that where you
don't have to do the research,you're not as confident, you
don't know as much.
Um, when you're going to talkabout something or actually do
something feels like to methat's maybe more of the, the

(34:56):
threat which would be on verysimple type jobs, that someone
could ask ai how to do it andthen do it themselves right, as
opposed to potentially engagingsomeone.
But I I think there's going tobe a threshold of complexity
there.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Hey, eventually we're going to have I mean, we've
seen them already the autonomousrobots are there.
You know, maybe a hundred yearsaway, until those are available
at a scale and everybody has arobotic assistant in their house
.
But it's not out of this realmof, it's not out of the realm of
possibility.
I mean probably 100 years.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
You know what's interesting I want to talk about
.
You talk about how far thingsare away.
I think one of the things thatsome of the futurists and things
talk about is how much fasterthings are changing.
Now the rate of change isaccelerating exponentially and
we've seen that in literalexemplifications of technology
when you look at like a 56kmodem and versus the gigabits of

(35:46):
internet that are forget.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
There's a law that that is somebody's law.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, it's a it's yeah, there's, it's basically an
exponential yes, um.
And so what's interesting aboutthis is, I think, as I look at
institutions to bring this backto education a little bit and I
look at companies, companies hadnot had to deal with that sort
of pace of change and so itwasn't important, there wasn't a
change, culture was not reallyestablished in a lot of these

(36:15):
large companies.
They could continue to do whatthey've been doing for very long
periods of time and continue tobe successful at it, because
things were not changing thatfast.
Now I can tell you in probablysome of my latter time at
Liberty Mutual and the last 10,basically the last decade their

(36:36):
larger institutions are tryingto accommodate for that by going
to a much more experimentativeapproach, having teams within
the companies that do a lot ofthe research, development,
testing, experimentation.
You've heard things about failfast, fail quick, learn quick,

(36:57):
and so I think that's one of thethings that we're going to have
to see in some of these othersystems, education being one of
them.
I think it was formulated onthe basis of a very slow change
and that stuff was implementedin the 1900s.
For the first hundred years ofthat system, not a ton changed

(37:17):
relatively.
I think you look at the changefrom 1920 to 1980, and then you
look at the change from 1980 to2025.
I mean, it's a whole differentscale, and so to me it's going
to be interesting to see howquickly these institutions can
adapt to changing.

(37:38):
How quickly can we swap outcurriculums?
How quickly can we keep up withthe pace of change?
I think it's going to take acompletely new mindset, a new
philosophy, culturally, withinsome of these companies.
Again, this is just notgovernment institutions.
It's happening in actualenterprises out there and you
see some adapting better thanothers.

(37:58):
Some, like Facebooks andGoogles and Amazons that have
came up more recently, are alittle more adept at adapting to
the pace of change and they'reincorporating that.
So I think to me that's going tobe a thing we need to learn as
a society and some of thoselarger institutions, to see how
quickly, because it's just goingto change faster.
But how do we create these newstandards?

(38:19):
You know, when the internetcame out and they hadn't settled
on a new protocol, everyone'sgot to be on the same protocol.
It's even like with all theelectric cars, like can we just
agree on one charger?
Like do we need to havedifferent stations that only
work with certain cars.
So, as we look to maybe makinga shift, how do you create a
curriculum or standards, and who?

(38:41):
Who would do that?
Because, like right now, a lotof that still is being driven by
government funding andgovernment regulations and you
check these boxes.
But I'd be curious of yourthoughts on that.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
I think the first thing to potentially fail not
fail but be overturned issecondary education.
So college we're already seeingpushback there.
You're talking anywhere from$150,000 to over a million
dollars for a college education,depending on where you're going

(39:13):
.
Secondarily, it's becoming likeeverything else.
It's this giant juxtapositionwhere I saw something the other
day on a site and it wassomebody asking what their
percentage chance was to getinto Harvard, and it was like I
have a 4.67 GPA, I scoredperfect on my SATs, I have 1400
hours of community service andthe response was about 25%.

(39:35):
Is your chance so like for what?
Right?
So you know, with the advent ofsocial media and all of these
other platforms and the internet, we, as the adults that are in
the workforce, have the abilityLinkedIn to maintain more
relationships across ourindustries where back in the day
you really couldn't, right, youknow, for you to maintain a

(39:57):
relationship with somebody, youhad to physically fly across the
country or drive to whatever.
So now we have all of theseimmediate resources, which is
where I'm sure, when you're in,still are thinking about
educating your kids at home.
It's like well, I have all ofthese relationships across the
United States that I'vemaintained through all of these
different mechanisms, I can justhook my kids up with an

(40:20):
entry-level sales job.
I have a buddy whose son justgraduated from.
He went to play baseball atschool, he graduated from this
college and he's calling me up.
He's like, hey, dude, you knowof any sales jobs.
So he spent $150,000 onsecondary education and he's
going to the same place that youcould potentially put your son,
based just on thoserelationships.

(40:41):
And then once society recognizesthat 80% of people are going
into roles that can befacilitated via those
relationships again the balancebetween who you know and what
you know then what happens?
Because I think a lot of themeasurements at the high school
level were created based oncollege admissions requirements

(41:02):
and a lot of those KPIs werebased on how many people you
were sending to secondaryeducation and funding that
system.
So you know, once that's up,what is middle school or high
school, what is even elementaryschool, what are they measured
on at that point?
And then that's maybe when itstarts to change.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
My thought is on this .
It's a matter of balancinginnovation and regulation.
That is the trick here.
The quicker you try and putstandards in place, the more you
stifle innovation and the moreyou suffocate creativity and so
giving the innovation andcreativity enough time and room
to breathe to figure out, forexample, the electric chargers,

(41:41):
which one's the best one.
Let some of this play out untilyou get to a point where
there's a clear leading standard.
Right, you jump to that toosoon and put in regulations.
You could stifle some of thatinnovation, creativity and end
up with an inefficient solutionbecause you kind of jumped the
gun there.
So to me, I think it's an art,and you just got to walk the

(42:03):
line as best you can, ofbalancing innovation and
regulation.
But what I wanted to say, what Ithink might happen it's a
hypothesis is, I think yourtraditional education system may
shrink drastically and youmight see new education systems
pop up.
What I mean by that is, in thisAI world, I think you are going

(42:23):
to need only for 20% of thepopulation maybe 10 or 5% of the
population is going to have tobe very highly trained in order
to outperform or add value towhat AI is going to do so when
you talk about, like a Dan, anengineer, very, very highly
trained, technical,sophisticated one of the things
that AI is bad at is contextualreasoning, right Understanding

(42:45):
kind of the context and howthings fit together and how it
works in real world, I thinkthere are going to be a certain
number of jobs that, in order toadd value and be really be
meaningful in an AI typeenvironment where they're doing
a lot of that middle of the roadtype stuff, you're going to
have to be very highlysophisticated and highly trained
.

(43:05):
That would be my hypothesis andthen weigh in on this.
But my thought is, as you lookat to your guys' point, the
sales and the trades I'm notsure that our system is set up
for that.
I mean, when you look at salesand I think about some of the
things that our chief salesofficer teaches and has kind of
educated some of our interns, Ithink there's a very different
curriculum, even going down tothe high school level that

(43:28):
really gets people to start topay really finite attention in
how to develop relationships,how to read people, how to
interact with people, how tonotice some of their what he
would call hot buttons, andthere's some really important
tactics there that can make youmuch better at sales and
developing those relationships,which obviously we've thought

(43:49):
was going to be a challenge.
So I could see the currenteducation system remaining
intact to an extent, but reallynarrowing and then some new,
whether it's from homeschoolcurriculums or otherwise.
But what were you going to jumpin with?

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Oh no, I was just going to say you just brought up
different education verticalsand I think back to like Khan
Academy or Peterson Academy,which is newer and I know
there's some political sidesthere, but like Khan Academy was
kind of the first out there toutilize the internet to provide
high level education, especially, I think, on the mathematical
side of things, for free topeople across the world, and so

(44:25):
as more business owners givemore credence to those types of
educations, you know, I think alot of times people have written
off some of that, like we werearound for the first, the
University of Phoenix's right,the WGU's of the world.
I don't know Cause I I'm in thethe small, middle, medium sized

(44:49):
business world.
You know, if those degrees aretaken seriously.
But I think as as largerorganizations or organizations
in general, because I think whatyou're seeing is again,
middle-sized businesses are kindof vanishing because they get
bought up.
So it's these giganticorganizations and small

(45:10):
businesses, and so as thegigantic and that's where this
gets so complex, right, becauseyou know what do they always say
?
It's hire the best people.
And now, you know, I was likeI'd have to look up the
statistics, but the number ofapplicants that Google gets.
Now I'd have to look up thestatistics, but the number of
applicants that Google gets orApple gets on a regular basis is
just astronomical.
And how do you get to the topof the pile?

(45:33):
And as those companies start tovalue these other education
approaches more than thetraditional way of and maybe
they do, I don't know, butthat's a question to answer.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
One of the first companies I always think back on
this that didn't really careabout education was Microsoft.
Like, when you went toMicrosoft, it was what you knew.
You had taken an unconventionalpath.
They're like this guyunderstands it, he knows his
stuff and we're going to hirehim, regardless of degree.
You know why?
Because Gates didn't.

(46:06):
I mean, he dropped out ofschool, right.
So I I believe secondaryeducation I think you kind of
nailed it with secondaryeducation and what.
What's fascinating to me isyou're seeing a lot of small
colleges closed, christiancolleges, um, they're struggling
, for enrollment is for them tofind their place and the value
that they're adding becauseenrollment is for them to find
their place in the value thatthey're adding, because you

(46:26):
could arguably say, even in inhigh school and middle school,
they're teaching you the basics,the fundamentals, like it's
good for everyone to know how toadd and subtract and do basic
math and and be able to reason.
But when you get to college,what it's supposed to prepare
you with some real lifeexperiences, trying to get

(46:46):
internships, trying to reallygive you the tools to be
successful, I would say, as onepart of college, the other part
of college and we've talkedabout community.
A ton is to be around peoplewithout your parents over your
shoulder and to make decisionsand you know potentially find a
spouse or like, cause you knowwhen you get out of college, if
you went to college knowpotentially find a spouse or
like, because you know when youget out of college if you went

(47:08):
to college like trying to find asignificant other.
I think there's some socialaspects that are really really
important at the collegiatelevel, but I think a lot of the
reformation is starting tohappen and we're going to see
that, at least in some of thesmaller institutions are going
to shrink and people have to beable to find the value in what
they're offering.
On the flip side, I think thereare some colleges that are

(47:30):
doing a really, really good job.
They are able to pivot on whatthey're offering.
They're offering new degrees,they're innovating, they're
trying and they are potentiallypreparing people to learn more
things that are relevant.
So kind of both sides of mymouth on that one.
I think certain institutionsthat don't pivot are going to
fall and the ones that are goingto grow and trying to find the

(47:52):
relevance there is going to beimportant.
I think that's what you saidthere about college.
I think it's something I'vealways contemplated is at what
point do you start to teachpeople relevant skills for what
they think they may want to do?
Because I think a lot of timessome, some of the people may not
know what they want to do untilafter college.
I mean, heck, 23, 24, 25, youdon't know.
Some people may know they'regoing to get into the trades in

(48:13):
high school and you've seen moreprograms kind of come into the
high school level where there'sapprenticeships or even when I
was there, service learningwhere you were out in high
school doing things, and I thinkthat has continued to increase.
I think that's always been thechallenging thing At what age do
you know if you're going to bein sales or you're going to go a
trade or you're going to be avery highly sophisticated

(48:36):
technical mind, and so I thinkthat's the other challenge of
this from an educationstandpoint is you don't want to
start to teach things too muchtoo soon for people that may not
go down that path.
Now, some of those skillsobviously would be foundational
your ability to communicate andinteract with people and
relationships and things but tome that has always been

(48:58):
something I've struggled toidentify.
At what point does it make senseto really specialize in?
And is it college?
Well, I don't know what theexact statistic is, but most
people don't actually use thedegree they graduate with
anyways.
Right, like I graduated with anIT, computer information
systems, with a minor incommunication.
Right, so, like, a lot ofpeople will graduate with a

(49:20):
degree and then they'll go get Xjob.
So, again, spending that typeof money to go to college for
those types of experiences?
I've learned more in my 10years of owning IMGs and
probably spent more, andsometimes it's in a dumb tax and
sometimes it's going toseminars and education.
I've learned more on thestreets actually doing than I

(49:42):
did in college.
You know what's interestingabout that is it starts to you
made the comment about BillGates and Microsoft.
The reason people are paying fordegrees and going to get
degrees is because companies arestill hiring on the merit of
degrees.
Yeah, and so until that stops,until companies stop valuing
that at a high extent andwhether that's right or wrong, I

(50:04):
shouldn't say I'm not sayingthey should stop valuing that
because there's an element ofproblem solving and discipline
and ability to retaininformation and social skills,
teamwork, things that if you'vegotten through college with a
very high GPA and you have ahigh standard of excellence and
you've been able to do that at avery high level.
There's something to be saidfor that.
Now, whether or not thatindividual has the relevant job
skills needed to perform on thejob, you know I don't know.

(50:27):
I mean you hear a lot ofcompanies say, gosh, you know I
really enjoy hiring fresh out ofcollege because we can teach
people exactly how we want themto do this job right when you're
talking about.
In some cases it's like someonethat's been in the industry for
10 years.
You may have to unteach themcertain things bad habits, bad
behaviors, unlearn.
So depending on how far you tryand pull the relevant job

(50:49):
skills into the educationtraining, you could end up with
the same problem.
Do people really want that?
Does an independent insuranceagency say do I want some school
teaching someone how to be agood account manager or do I
want them to have some of thesefoundational problem-solving
skills and then we'll teach themhow to be an account manager of
?

Speaker 2 (51:07):
these foundational problem-solving skills and then
we'll teach them how to be anaccount manager.
Yeah, that's an interestingthought on how you blend those
particular things.
I just kind of lost my train ofthought.
I had something there, so I'llkind of pass it back up to you
guys until that pops back up inmy head.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
I would just love to dive more into.
We've kind of identified sales,trades and some of this highly
technical work as kind of therealms.
I remember the other day Ilooked up on ChatGPT.
I was like, what are you bad at?
And it talked about thecontextual reasoning and some of
the things that it is bad at.
So I'm curious as to what youguys think some of the other

(51:42):
highly valued, let's say, atleast for a few decades or more,
because it will change andevolve.
What do you think are going tobe some of the?
And I'd also like to not tothrow too much out there at once
, but I'd also like to talkabout the challenges within the
education system of people usingchat GPT to plagiarize and like
how I'm sure there's someoneout there, you know professors

(52:07):
and teachers that are way moreeducated, but gosh, that I I
don't envy trying to navigate.
You know essays and maybe yougo away from that and it's like
out of the you know known booktests and homework as they start
to really curate it around.
What can't be done on chat GPT,but maybe that is or isn't in a
efficient based on.
You know you're writing acurriculum.

(52:28):
But that's a whole notheranimal we haven't even got into.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
I wonder right, can chat GPT recognize its own work?
As a teacher, can you get andupload a paper into chat, GPT
and say did you write this?

Speaker 1 (52:39):
So I have a 15 year old son.
We actually had this debate theother day, so I got a little
bit of context here.
So, um, in in his group I mean,let's be honest, if chat gbt
was around, I would have atleast been one of, and you
probably too that would behaving it trying to write my
papers like there's.
No, there's no question aboutthat.
Um, they have ai checkers.

(53:00):
There are patterns and thingsthat the teachers can submit a
paper to and say did AI writethis?
So they have ways to kind ofcheck for certain patterns and
certain things.
Have they proven to be prettyaccurate or, do you know, like
false positives and things?
I know people are getting caughtfor it.
I don't know how often.
I was talking to another kid inhis class that said you know, I

(53:20):
don't use it to write my paper,but after I've written my paper
, I tell it to grade my paper.
So, like here you go, where yougot to turn your assignment in,
and you say, hey, this is myassignment, this is what I wrote
for.
And they said, oh well, youneed to do this, this and this.
And now, all of a sudden, you'vejust you've almost cheated to a
sense of, like you've got itgraded before the grade and you

(53:41):
know what to change to make itbetter.
So like I thought that was afascinating way to use it to
like if you're trying to dosomething and you want to do the
best at it and you put yourbest effort out there and you
can get it to a teacher beforethe teacher, that can really
increase your, your ability.
So I know there's ways outthere.
I'm sure, as they got AIcheckers, there's another tool
coming out.

(54:01):
It's just kind of like a virusright right, as soon as you get
the virus blocker, they create anew virus that you haven't
blocked it.
So there's going to be waysthat people are going to
continue to evolve and try tothink creatively on how to get
around that.
But there are ways, I think,now for teachers, especially on
the english front, to check,check for that stuff I just
think the more deep youroriginal question, I think, the
deeper you get contextually.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Again, it knows it's bad at.
Knows it's bad at that.
The specific example Dan wasgiving was he makes a.
He very important.
He engineers airplane partsthat hold the engines on the
wing, so not the kind of thingyou want to mess up.
But he was saying he hadsomebody engineer two parts that
went together but the way theywent together would not allow a

(54:44):
tool to get in to that area towork on those particular parts,
because they don't think of thatextra context Like, well, if it
breaks, somebody is going toneed to fix it and this tool
doesn't necessarily existbecause it would have to look
like, like whatever.
So I think the deeper you getcontextually, in situations
where there's layers upon layersto things, um, things, there is

(55:06):
going to be that struggle.
So that would be areas where Idon't think for decades it's
going to be able to get thingsright.
And then I'll go back to what Isaid.
I just you know I think wetalked about this in the AI
episode.
Potentially I don't think it'squite got it yet and I don't
know how soon it will understandagain how to transfer passion

(55:27):
or how to transfer excitement.
You're seeing people nowadayslike I don't know if you guys
have felt this, but I've kind offelt social media in certain
instances, especially frompeople trying to start their own
personal brand.
We're doing it a little bitright, but I feel like some of
it is losing its personality.
Like hey, okay, chat, gpt, Ineed you to tell me what to post

(55:48):
, when to post it, I need you totell me the tags to use
underneath it.
I need you to tell me thecaptions, who to tag and what.
Like you know, and I feel likeit, being an LLM, it's utilizing
all the information.
It has to tell you how to dothose types of things, but then

(56:08):
it's also maybe it's becomingregimented across the larger
landscape there.
And so what are we better atthan anything else?
Recognizing patterns, and we'restarting to see these
consistent patterns.
And what do we do when we seeconsistent, overwhelming
patterns?
Is we tune them out?
So it kind of is in that sameconversation that you were

(56:29):
talking about, where, layer uponlayer upon layer upon layer, of
refining a paper.
Now it's layer upon layer uponlayer upon layer, of
understanding how we're going toreact as humans when patterns
become so prevalent that webegin to push them away.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
I would take this down a little different path,
because this has been a hottopic and I think every
something that I'm justinterested in your guys'
thoughts on this is compensation.
When we talk about teachers andeducation, I think everyone
would agree that teachers areone of the most important jobs
that exist, and the same, thesame dynamic, goes for
firefighters and police officersand and others other very

(57:06):
critical functions that areresponsible for very critical
elements of our society Safety,educating the next generation,
that sort of thing In thecurrent market, which I would
say is more of a free marketit's kind of supply and demand I
would say is more of a freemarket.

(57:27):
It's kind of supply and demandRight, and I think you know
people, institutions, whetherthat's companies or governments,
are naturally going to pay aslittle as they need to in order
to get these positions filledand educate the youth, right.
But I think there's been aquestion of that, of is that you
know, obviously, to go awayfrom that, there would need to

(57:48):
be some sort of regulation.
There's been a lot ofdiscussion around.
Okay, if education is asimportant as we say it is and we
want to compensate theunbelievable teachers
appropriately for that and orattract additional talent to
that space, to the educationalsector?

(58:08):
Does AI or technology or any ofthis, or the evolution of the
education system, does it in anyway, do you think, impact that
challenge that I think we allfeel from a compensation
perspective, are there anyelements that might change that
over time?

Speaker 2 (58:28):
I don't know.
I mean, I think the bestteachers out there are masters
of empowerment, and I don'tthink AI can solve that problem.
They can empower people throughcreative methods, kind of like
what we talked about earlierwith Donner, and I think that's
something that can't bereplicated through AI in any way
, so I don't think itnecessarily does affect what

(58:53):
could potentially becompensation.
You know, it's just.
This opens up such a can ofworms for me with what we reward
monetarily in the world.
A lot of times we reward peoplethat take the shortcuts or
people that are good atmanipulating, as opposed to
people that you know.

(59:13):
One thing that I've noticed andthis is kind of interesting,
parallel with our races withbackyard ultras, the best
backyard ultra runners areteachers.
The world record holder, youknow, the one who won our race
last year they're teachers, andwhat I think is unique about
that is I think we all have saidthis I don't know how you guys

(59:34):
do it.
How do you deal with 30 secondgraders all day, every day, like
I can't handle three and wewon't talk about.
You know what we've talkedabout in a prior episode with
grit Holy cow, 20 years of doingthat.
I'm sure you learned theshortcuts.
I'm sure you learned the waysto do it, but that's, in my
opinion, who we should reward,and I think as a society, we're

(59:59):
opening our eyes to that.
We're seeing again it's going toget a little political, but
we're seeing the recoil at theloss of jobs that are presumed
to be purely bureaucratic.
People are freaking out likeuh-oh, they're finding me out.
I think we were all raised withvalues that if we weren't doing

(01:00:25):
our job and somebody came inand fired us, we'd know like oh
yeah, we weren't doing our job,we deserve to be fired.
Um, and I think so long we'verewarded that, and now people
are realizing oh goodness, youdo need to put forth effort, you
do need to be gritty, and and Iwish we as a society and
hopefully the trend continueswhere you don't get rewarded

(01:00:48):
unless you, you know, at somepoint in time have put forth the
kind of effort, and I'd love tosee compensation based on those
types of things versus how itcan be at times today.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
I would say to answer your question, I think AI could
play a role in some of the morepractical educational stuff.
And I think to your point,should the educator be a master
communicator and someone thatcan empower, someone that can
come in peak state and bringenergy and motivate and inspire
the kids both of those and thengo into education?

(01:01:22):
Right, because if you have bothof those skills, you're going
into business or something elseand making three to five times
more.
So could AI play a more?
Because I think to your point,I don't think AI is going to
ever be able to come in andinspire a room, get in peak
state, bring energy, bringtransformation ideas and have
that passion that moves somebodyin a room.
But if you can have those typeof charismatic people leading

(01:01:43):
children and inspiring children,I think that's the critical
skill and if AI can play a rolein some of the more technical
stuff so that teacher doesn'thave to be able to be technical
and good which would be aunicorn in our world, because
most people aren't technicallysavvy and very relationally
savvy that's just like a veryuncommon thing to have both.
I know we're in incredibleamounts of debt, but we've

(01:02:05):
talked about at some point, asthings get so efficient, there
would be a universal incomepotentially, and I would just
love to see some of thatuniversal income as we're
starting to come into it,whether that's 50 years down the
road or 60, to be disseminateddown to some of these more key
roles in our society, because Ithink what happens naturally
this is my understanding of itI'd be interested in your guys'

(01:02:27):
perspective on the economics isthere are, there is sometimes a
lot of fulfillment in some ofthese roles, and that's why
people are willing to do themfor lower, lower costs.
I mean, even amidst the dangersand the risks, which are
incredible, and the amount ofgrit it takes, there's some
fulfillment that allows peoplein the importance of it, which

(01:02:48):
to me it just it it does feelbad.
It feels like there are peopleout there that know how
important it is to educate kidsand so they're willing to do it
for the prices that thegovernment entities are pay, and
that increases the supply andit drives down the market price.
And to me, that's some of me,that's some of the challenges

(01:03:09):
with free market.
It just doesn't always seem toland fairly, if you will, in
terms of the criticality of thejob and what the compensation is
.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
It'll be interesting to see.
One thing I'm surprised wehaven't seen yet is One thing
I'm surprised we haven't seenyet is teachers leveraging
technology a little bit more toexpand their again.
We referenced a couple of KhanAcademy and Peterson Academy
earlier, but teachers usingtechnology to expand their
sphere of influence.
That would be great, but again,I'm sure there's conflict of

(01:03:41):
interest with day jobs andthings like that.
So if you're a teacher at anelementary school, you know
creating your own um onlineentity or you know free offering
, there may again maybe aconflict of interest.
I'd love to talk to somebody inadministration or you know a
teacher um, as it relates to, uh, you know some of these

(01:04:03):
questions, cause I'm supercurious.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Yeah, I think the one thing that I want to make sure
is clear on this podcast is thatwe think teachers are vastly
important and do an incrediblejob with the tools they're given
and the framework they're in.
And I think the challenge is isthe framework that?
Does the framework needrefreshed?
How are we equipping ourchildren?
And I think there is a littlebit of difference depending on

(01:04:32):
the, the um institution thatthat you're part of.
But, critically, teachers are avery, very important part of
society and it a lot of times Ithink to your point, todd it's a
selfless thing.
It is where they are feelingcalled and they're doing a role
that's so critically importantand I don't think we value that
enough as a society.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Yeah, I agree with that.
What are the things do you guysthink could be utilized as
tools of measurement aside fromsecondary education?
I say that because we talked alot about the secondary benefits
of college, right.
I say that because we talked alot about the secondary benefits
of college, right, and Iremember we had a friend who was
interviewing I believe it waswith McKinsey at the time or
seen them at a job fair, andthey made the comment to him

(01:05:15):
that they didn't hire 4.0students typically because that
was an indicator that they werenot very socially savvy.
And so even utilizing collegeand utilizing that insight to
generate perspective on apotential hire, like what other
things in the future, if, let'ssay, secondary education
continues to shrink and focusvery specifically, like you said

(01:05:38):
, on a five or 10% of thepopulation that needs to be
highly specialized and highlytrained in particular things,
what other things do we thinkemployers, as yourselves, could
utilize to measure potentialcandidates in the future if,
let's say, an immediate referralfrom a close friend isn't

(01:06:00):
readily available?

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
It would be cool.
I haven't really thought aboutthis until you mentioned that I
think AI could start to play areal role in interviews.
Think about putting someone ina position where you are having
them interact with an AI bot andhaving some sort of
conversation to evaluate theircommunication skills.
I think technology can help usmeasure some of those things.

(01:06:26):
Obviously, in an interviewtoday, you just have a gut
instinct on that, youcommunicate them and you you can
kind of feel or see that I meancertainly, I think, problem
solving skills, especially forthat highly trained,
sophisticated technical position, I think problem solving skills
are going to continue to bereally important to measure and
I think technology does give usan ability to measure that a
little more easier or a littlemore easily.

(01:06:47):
I would say maybe you'll see.
I think we've been doing casestudies and things like that for
a long time in some of thosepositions and those companies.
I think you could see moresimulations in this day and age
of how people solve problems,approach problems.
I mean not just a problem on apaper, but giving them a virtual

(01:07:07):
reality headset and puttingthem in a room not necessarily
like an escape room, butpotentially like that sort of
flavor and see how they solveproblems.
I think some of that will bereally interesting.
How AI plays a role in that,yeah, I think it's going to be
fascinating to think about.
I think the employers here's athought the employers that are

(01:07:34):
really really good at developingtraining to be able to train
their employees will be able tokind of write their ticket.
And I'll tell you why.
I have a good friend that's inconcrete and there's no concrete
finishers around.
He has a concrete finishercompany.
He brings in apprentices.
They're part of that companyand then the other places that

(01:07:57):
can't or don't have concretefinishers are now taking his
apprentices and then can we havethem for the summer.
So if you think about in thetrades, if you can develop a
program and this would be aftersecondary if you, if we figured
out the way to train producers,it's game over not only for us
but for everybody, like if wefound a way that that worked.

(01:08:20):
So I'm wondering how much ofthat training will come under
the umbrella of the actualemployer and other people that
are not willing to put in theenergy and effort to develop
that, which you could arguablysay a lot of people won't,
because it is hard, hard work todevelop a training program to
equip people with the skills tobe successful in a particular

(01:08:43):
industry.
I even think about sales and Ithink about James and the
intentionality.
There's not too many peoplethat are going to teach it the
way that he would teach it toget those details to make them
successful at what they're goingto be a part of.
And so, regardless of industry,if you're willing to take the
time to develop a specializedtraining program for your
industry, not just for yourcompany, I think it would be

(01:09:05):
invaluable and I think more andmore people are going to start
doing it, and the ones that aredoing it are going to be able to
grow their footprint and theircompanies a lot faster.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
Is that?
It's funny because right now wedo this for sports with kids,
like you know, and it would beinteresting to see if secondary
education becomes that.
Let's say hypothetically thatyou know insurance agencies
nationwide, or a subset ofinsurance agencies, decide on
okay, look, we want to.
We want to create aninstitution that delivers the

(01:09:35):
found, these foundational things.
We're going to polish theindividual when they get to our
company.
But we've agreed on thesecouple of things need to be, you
know, if you recognize at 17 17that this person has this, like
they have the james qualitiesand this person is going to be a
brilliant salesperson.
We want these thingsfoundationally laid so this

(01:09:55):
person can go to thisinstitution and that becomes,
you know, kind of what is inplace with vocational stuff
today and then they are.
That gets them to a particularpoint, a kind of what some of
these companies have done with,like the program you went
through at Liberty Mutual, butit becomes a little bit more
broad than that.
That would be interesting to seeif things evolve that
particular, in that particularmanner, because again, we do

(01:10:18):
this for sports.
10 years old, oh, we're goingto, they're showing this, this
capability or this aptitude.
We're going to put them in thisacademy program at 10 or 6 or 7
, and then this is the path.
It's crazy that we don't dothat Again, like you said, until
somebody's 25.
We were sitting in the serviceoperations center, a guy with a

(01:10:39):
1.7 GPA, a guy that damn nearfailed out of college, and I was
sitting next to a guy who had amaster's degree in some subset
of biology, making the sameamount of money, who went to
University of Washington andgraduated with a 3.7.
You know, very interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
One of the things that I have always found
fascinating.
I don't know when I stumbledupon this it was maybe a decade
ago at the reality that we weretalking about learning here.
Right, with education, we learnat an unbelievably exponential
rate.
When we have a purpose for whatwe're trying to learn and it's
in an area of passion, right,like if you're playing a video

(01:11:21):
game and you need to figure outhow to get through that level
and you pull something up, yourability to like, digest and
retain that information isexponential, as if you had never
played that video game and youwent down and watched that video
and you were trying to retainthat.
It literally like there'ssomething neurologically that

(01:11:41):
happens that engages us andallows us to learn at this hyper
accelerated fashion.
What I've always hoped is thatthe education system over time,
as it continues to evolve anddevelop, is that there is more
engagement of students atyounger levels just to
experience and experiment thejob, to build an understanding

(01:12:05):
of why they're even learningsome of the things that they're
learning or some of the traitsthat they're learning.
I feel like to give them theopportunity to be in some of
these positions and see whythat's required to make a living
, and make a successful living,in my opinion, would really help
kids' ability to digest andaccelerate the amount of

(01:12:28):
information they're taking inand, it's probably most
important, the amount ofinformation they retain.

Speaker 2 (01:12:34):
Do we feel like there is a we're missing tension in
education.
What I mean by that is you saidsomething very like.
That kind of brought me back towhen we were kids with video
games and, like I feel now Imade this comment maybe it was

(01:12:54):
in an AI episode or another onewhere we had gotten an email on
something for Eternize and youhad responded in like 10 seconds
with AI.
I don't know about you guys,but I remember feeling so much
more gratified when we wouldsolve a problem in a game and we
did it on our own.
And I'm finding that I've codeda few websites exclusively

(01:13:15):
using ChatGPT and I just don'tfeel that satisfaction action.
I am more proud of the SidPosse website coded on
ComTechcom and basic HTML that Itaught myself when I was 15,
versus building out Cam'swebsite with a live GPS tracker

(01:13:36):
of his run around the UnitedStates, which is way more
complex than that ever could be,because it just did it for me
and it was you know.
I felt way more like a dataentry technician than I did
somebody who acts at you know.
So is a side effect of AI in aneducation space?
Kind of back to the comment Imade earlier about building

(01:13:58):
confidence.
Is that doing the nextgeneration a disservice?
You know, it was so much.
It was so much more gratifyingto beat final fantasy one on our
own, with a little bit of helpfrom a guide, than it was going
on to game faqs when anotherfinal fantasy 7 came out and
just reading step by step whatwe needed to do.

(01:14:19):
There was still fun there, butthere wasn't that sense of
accomplishment.
And I wonder if you knowsomebody who figured out a
mathematical theorem.
They're going to be so muchmore fulfilled because it's a
it's more of a philosophicapproach to it than somebody who
figured out a complex equationby putting it into a system Like
I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
I you know you know what's interesting about that?
Cause I I can tell when peoplerespond to me with AI, and I
don't even want to read it right, it just doesn't.
But here's the irony in thatI'm okay outsourcing something,
I'm okay hiring a Sammy to do awebsite or a logo, right.

(01:15:00):
I'm, in essence, kind of doingthe same thing.
I'm outsourcing it totechnology versus I'm
outsourcing it to a person.
But I look at those vastlydifferent at this point in time
in my life.
I wonder if that'll shift overtime.
I do believe, for personalsatisfaction of you, as you have
indicated, that I'm much moresatisfied when I'm solving a
problem on my own than when Ihave to tap into AI or it's

(01:15:22):
doing something.
It just doesn't feel the same.
But over time, outsourcingsomething through Fiverr or some
other thing I've learned to beokay with that.
It's like, oh, it's justhelping me get to the problem,
as long as it's not solvingeverything for me and it's just
a part of it, then I think itchanges a little bit, for at
least for me.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
It's like what kind of value do we put on human
touch?
Because I'm similar if I haveit A lot.
And we know that right now, aistill struggles with things like
logos.
Some of the models that aredesigned specifically for that
are a little bit better, right,but, like you know, we just
redesigned a shirt for Fulmo andI did it on Fiverr.
You know this came out of AI.
This was a complete fluke, orno, this wasn't.

(01:16:04):
This one was actually designedon Fiverr, but we have another
design that was out of AI.
But if I have something that Iwant done me personally and I
wonder how the youngergeneration views it Me
personally I will go to Fiverrbecause I have an artist I trust
that I feel has the rightperception on the area of
society that I'm targeting.

(01:16:24):
But it'll be interesting to seehow the value of human touch
comes in the future.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
I think it's interesting to know like you
know, we like to do it a certainway how much of that is just
generational comfort versusactual value.
Right, you see, a lot of timesagain, we can look at the older
generations and there's certainthings that they do just because
they feel comfortable doing itthat way, they've done it that

(01:16:50):
way and they sometimes we wouldargue that they put a
unreasonable amount of value onthat just because that's the way
they've done it.
So it'd be interesting to seeif that does hold over time.
And if there is, we're maybeovervaluing the contextual
reasoning that we're able to do.
Or, yeah, truly there is somegaps in AI's ability to actually
be effective at this stuff.
Now, that's going to evolve tooover time.
Right, ai is going to continueto get better and better and
better and that'll beinteresting how fast that
changes.
But what you said, I think itwas interesting.

(01:17:12):
How much do we value human touch?
We've talked about both aspects, from a consumer and a
developer of the content,because you've got from a
consuming perspective.
How much am I valuing this?
But also, what's thefulfillment level of developing
this?
I mean a lot of the reason youknow, a lot of the reason we can
continue to work at very high Iwould say high amount of effort

(01:17:32):
40, 50, 60 hours a week andcontinue to do that week a week,
a week over week over week andyear over year over year over
year is because we do getfulfillment out of that.
And if we get to a point wherewe're doing things that are you
know, we're robbing ourselves offulfillment.
I think sustainability maybe bythat point we're only going to
need to work 20 hours a week.
I don't know, but it's going tobe interesting to see how it

(01:17:53):
evolves.
To bring it back, I'm probablyput a bow on this.
I wrote down the wordexperience and I'd love your
guys' opinion.
I don't.
So we talked about training andschooling and everything, but I
don't believe anything takesthe place of experience, actual
experience doing something, andI would love your guys opinion,

(01:18:14):
but I don't.
Where do you feel like thatplays into this whole model?

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
Because I think that, at the very end of the day, is
what I think experience is kindof an interesting I don't know
if you'd call it a paradox,because when you're younger you
don't see the importance in it.
You know it's like again, youkind of said generational
comfortability.
Oh, this old guy he thinks.
You know.
I remember as a 25, 26, 27,looking at these older guys that

(01:18:39):
are in their 50s and be like,oh, they're over the hill,
they're stuck in their ways,they don't understand.
But then as you get closer toit, I think we're in this very
unique window.
I was listening to LeBron Jamesand Steve Nash talk about it.
Lebron has probably been giftedwith, at least in the modern

(01:19:00):
generation, the most athleticability of any human ever and
he's one of these unique peoplethat still has the athletic
skill set to that and he cancomplement it with his
experience to a level no one'sbeen able to do, Because
normally in that sport, by thetime you're 40 and you have all
the experience and the knowledgenecessary to be super effective

(01:19:22):
effective you don't have theathletic ability to complement
that anymore, which I think hecredits, and it's a good example
of how important experience ishe can.
He's still one of the top 10.
He's been only for 22 years andhe's one of the top 10
contributing um talents in theNBA still, and you have to think

(01:19:43):
that a large percentage of thatis experience, and so I think
experience is undervaluedimmensely and unfortunately, you
know, and hopefully fortunatelyfor us, because we're living
longer and we're taking bettercare of ourselves, we're in a
situation where we have thevitality and we have the
excitement and we have thepassion, we have the drive to

(01:20:04):
continue to implement thatexperience.
I think in years past, when youmay have been forced into a job
that you weren't necessarily aspassionate about, there weren't
as many options, you couldn'tdo as many different things,
that by the time you had theexperience, the passion had died
.
And I think we have the abilityin today's day and age.
So experience is invaluable, Ithink, over and above everything

(01:20:26):
else.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
Yeah, I think it takes all three.
I've always been a proponent,as we've done, growth and
development plans.
You know this.
There's three components tolearning One's education.
You have to have kind of thefundamentals and the foundation
to even make sense of how it'sbeing applied.
You have to have exposure.
You have to see someone doingit, watch, observe and then
experience it.
And I think if you go in andyou try we've seen people kind

(01:20:50):
of sit down and try and do a joband they have like no idea
where to start.
It's so overwhelming.
If you don't have thosefundamental educational pieces,
you can't make sense of theexperience in many cases, or it
takes a lot longer to make senseof it.
And then I think exposure, yourability to watch someone do
that, I think just acceleratesthe process.
I think experience is where youfine-tune it.
We've talked about the detailsthat absolutely matter and we've
talked about this in severaldifferent aspects of that fine

(01:21:10):
line between everyone else.
And then the best of the best,and I think experience is where
you fine-tune that and where youtruly separate yourself, um,
you know, from a performanceperspective.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
I think that, well, I think the top level performers
have an element of stoicism tothem that comes with experience,
right?
So, like I remember, even sixor seven years ago, uh, working
with an individual and I I camein um with a product and I'm
sure you guys have dealt withpeople like this, whether you
are, whatever side you were onright, you come in and you're on
fire about a project and you'reall ramped up and you have all

(01:21:44):
these ideas and this personbecause they've experienced that
and through so many differentlenses like just takes a deep
breaths and says a sentence andyou're like there, holy cow,
there it is yeah and that allthat is is, you know, just vast
experience and exposure.

Speaker 1 (01:22:01):
So I would say I line I.
There's certain things like,especially being an entrepreneur
.
It's like you can take a classon entrepreneurship, but until
you feel that pressure like,until you feel what it's like to
risk it all, until you can feellike there's certain things
that you learn throughexperience that I think are more
passion, tangible, tangible,emotional, like you said, the

(01:22:23):
education part is important, butthe experience, I think,
ultimately trumps all over time,because you're living it,
you're breathing it, you'refeeling it and I think that is
something that we have tocontinue to focus on.
Let me ask one more questionjust to wrap this up
Homeschooling we talked a littlebit about that and there's a
little bit of a trend there.
I'd love to go back to that andsee if there's anything at any

(01:22:46):
point where you guys wouldactually consider making that
shift and, if so, why.

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
I'll start because my answer will probably be shorter
than his.
I've always wondered I don'tknow where we're at societally
in terms of being able to assess, like, the long-term results
and I'm not saying good or bad,I just when we were young,
homeschool was extremely rare,so I don't know any people in
their 40s or maybe one that washomeschooled and what that

(01:23:13):
results were, and they may havebeen phenomenal.
Uh, we have quite a few kidshomeschooled in our neighborhood
and again, I think there isenough access if the parent is
cognizant and I'm not sayingagain wrong, right or
indifferent of like, maybesocial exposure, Because I think
if you look at it through thatlens you could say, oh well,

(01:23:34):
maybe homeschooling limitssocial exposure and that's a
problem.
But I think there are solutionsto that problem.
And then there's the benefits.
A good friend of minehomeschools all of his daughters
.
There's the benefits to exposingthem to other things that they
don't get exposed to in thatrigid environment in school, so
taking them to places to see andlearn and have cultural
experiences, tailoring thelesson plan to their specific

(01:23:57):
learning style.
So I think there's a lot ofbenefits there For me.
I don't know if I do it yet,but as I start to see more
success stories and I start tosee more well-developed kids,
because I see kids now that areteenagers and I can see
shortcomings in certain peopleand I can see strengths in
certain people that have beenhomeschooled, but I don't know
even kids that go throughtraditional school at 18,

(01:24:19):
there's still a lot ofshortcomings and strengths.
So for me, when we start to seeand I meet somebody in their
30s, well you know, oh yeah, Iwas homeschooled and so were my
brothers and here's, you know,like if we were all homeschooled
and we were friends of mine,then I'd be, maybe a was
homeschooled.
There was a stigma or anassociation of social

(01:24:47):
awkwardness right?

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
I don't believe that exists today.
For me, I think one of the mostimportant things, our existence
on this planet, is community.
If we're not meant to betogether and live life together
and do life together, I don'teven know why we're here.
So community is so important tome and I think there's a
fundamental part of that thatcomes in schooling.
I do believe it can berecreated, but you better have

(01:25:11):
someone in your household you oryour spouse that is organized
enough to pull it off, because Iknow people who have
homeschooled and you can do aday's worth of work in three
hours of actual schoolwork.
I mean the kids have passingperiods, they have recess, they
have lunch, they have all thesethings.
So like you can educate andgive your kid and there's

(01:25:32):
programs you can sign them upfor and put them in front of a
device and they're done at noonand then they could go live out
a passion.
But you better have someonethat's driving that train, that
is talking to the homeschoolcommunity, that is making sure
that they're getting some socialhours, that they're engaged in
sports.
So I believe by homeschoolingyou can create some unique
opportunities.
But it goes back to we weretalking about meals and fitness

(01:25:55):
and the amount of effort itwould take from a parent.
I mean, it's probably a half ora full-time job, so I don't
know.
We've talked about it.
We were at a point where wealmost did it.
We were pretty far down thepipe.
But again it came back tocommunity for me and keeping
those communities solid.
And me and my wife are both Ipeople, which we're idea people,

(01:26:17):
and there's this thing calledtenacity and the working genius.
That is like someone that fallsthrough and gets stuff done.
Neither one of us have the gene, so for us to make it work we'd
have to hire a teacher, becauseneither one of us like to stick
to anything.
So that's how I would answerthat question.
Good.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
Yeah, no, I mean, you know one of the things.
I think I really liked theeffort comment because, again,
like the individual, one of mygood friends at homeschools, his
daughters there's effort there.
They're involved in sports sothey're getting exposed to,
they're involved in dance andrunning and so they're getting
exposed to different types ofpeople in different communities.
Cause I think, if you don't andyou just put them in front of
an iPad and you take them to thezoo once a week, like you said

(01:26:56):
on numerous podcasts, how much Ivalue the exposure that we had
and a lot of it was throughsports, I mean, there was some
through school.
But yeah, I think you're you'reright on with with the effort
and I think it can be done theright way.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
So ending with a fun, fun question you brought up
LeBron.
Me and my son have this debateall the time.
Who's the goat?

Speaker 2 (01:27:14):
you go first because I'm gonna be a little more
long-winded well, I've alwaysanswered this question depends
how you define go.

Speaker 1 (01:27:22):
I mean lebron's done incredible at lond.
I mean his longevity and whathe's accomplished over such an
extended period of time.
Nobody has rivaled that at all.
I think jordan is obviously ifyou are going to.
I think a lot of people whenthey say go, they think all
right, if, if I can put together, uh, if I could pick one of
those two people in their primeto be on the team, of course

(01:27:42):
it's Jordan.
I don't think there's anyquestion about that.
His level of intensity and levelof competitiveness, I think
everyone knows, was toxic to apoint of just ridiculousness
that people hated to be aroundhim.
But that's why he was good, soI would pick him on the
basketball floor if it was lifeor death and I had to win.
I good, so I wouldn't.
I wouldn't.
I would pick him on thebasketball floor.

(01:28:02):
If it was life or death and Ihad to win, I'm not sure I'd
pick.
He would be the guy that Iwould pick to be around as a, as
a human being, um, but I don't,I don't.
I think that was uh that workedout for him, that insane
competitiveness worked out inhis favor.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, he burned the brightest, for
sure, um, but I think he alsobenefited from some things.
I think there's some otheraspects of the game that LeBron
has had to deal with, and dealtwith in a masterful manner.
If social media was around whenMichael Jordan was around, we
would have had some realproblems.
I mean, he was, you know.
There's all kinds ofspeculation.

Speaker 1 (01:28:32):
I didn't ask who was wholesome.
I asked who was the bestbasketball player.

Speaker 2 (01:28:35):
Well, when I look at which, when you say go right,
like I take into consideration aton of things.
I could take into considerationhow they conducted themselves
from a um, from a socialperspective.
I take into consideration theimpact they had on the game.
Nobody had more of an impact onthe culture.
You know, like jordan sticksout there right with his brand.

(01:28:57):
Iverson sticks out there wheniverson was playing like long
shorts, baggy clothes.
You know stephon sticks outthere when Iverson was playing
like long shorts, baggy clothes.
You know Steph Curry sticks outthere, the way that he's
changed, the way the game isplayed.
So I look at all of thosethings.
Again, I would align with you.
Lebron's longevity is nextlevel.
The way he's carried himself inall of the scenarios that he's

(01:29:20):
been placed in with an absolutemicroscope on him since he was
16 has been pretty ridiculous.
But again, yeah, jordan'skiller instinct, similar to
Kobe's, but Jordan just had moreathletic gift.

Speaker 1 (01:29:34):
Same thing with Tiger .

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
I think Tiger had that same killer instinct and
when Jordan in the last dance,when he gets choked up, he's
like talking about like I neverasked the guys like you could
tell how much he cares.
I never asked the guys to doanything that I would do and if
you can't, he starts to kind ofcry.
It's like yo, this guy is akiller.
I don't think he's a greatperson potentially, but he's a

(01:29:56):
killer.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
Yeah, I mean.
Lebron's still married.
He's got a family much morewholesome, but like Jordan, one
of my favorite stats is thatit's only been done four times
and it was Jordan every time.
It was all.
Defensive player of the year,leading point scorer, won the
trophy and was the MVP.
He got all four of those and hedid it four times and no one
else has ever done it Like he'slike.

(01:30:17):
Oh, you said I'm not good atdefense.
Okay, next year I'm going tolead the league.
So his competitiveness to win.
So I'm going to go with Jordan,which is no shock, especially
to my oldest son, roman.
But I thought that'd be fun tohave.
That debate Sounds good.
Thank you guys for tuning inGreat great discussion around
education.

(01:30:39):
Like you said, none of us areexperts.
We all have opinions.
We know there's a lot ofpositivity going on and the
people involved in the schoolsystems are doing an incredible
job, and we always like tochallenge the status quo and
think about what it could be orwhat it should be.
So hopefully you gain somevalue and we'll see you next
time.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}🎙️Episode 15: Learning in the Age of AI: How Should We Prepare Our Children?

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

🎙️Episode 15: Learning in the Age of AI: How Should We Prepare Our Children?

24/7 News: The Latest