Episode 2: Balancing Act: Navigating Youth Sports, Family Values, and Technology

We discuss the multifaceted challenges of parenting in today’s competitive youth sports landscape. The episode emphasizes finding balance between fostering commitment and allowing enjoyment, exploring how societal pressures affect both children and parents. 

• Sharing personal insights on children's activities 
• The impact of community culture on youth sports 
• Emphasizing the importance of teaching commitment versus forcing participation 
• Finding balance between competition and enjoyment 
• The influence of parental expectations on children's experiences 
• Addressing productivity versus leisure in a digital age 
• Highlighting the spiritual and moral grounding for children's self-worth 
• Encouraging collective growth through sports engagement

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Daily Edge where we bring you the
latest insights, opinions andthought-provoking conversations
to give you that competitiveedge in life, business and
beyond.
Let's go episode two of thedaily edge.
Hopefully you guys enjoyed thefirst episode.

(00:27):
Today we're back to talk more,a little bit more about fitness,
but we're gonna kind of focuson the kid realm.
Between the three of us, wehave ten kids ranging in ages
from 15 to four, four okay.
So we got a lot of stuff goingon in athletics and fitness from
a kid point of view, but we'llprobably get into just parenting

(00:49):
in general.
Again, we're very similar toprobably a lot of you out there.
We all have jobs and we're allmarried and we all have several
kids doing several things.
So let's just kick the.
Let's kick it off by kind ofgoing through maybe each one of
us talking about what our kidsare into and what some of the
things that we're dealing withon a day-to-day basis.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Let's start.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
I'll go ahead and start.
So I have three kids ages six,nine and ten, and they are into
goodness, almost everything.
You hear that a lot from peopleis diversify what your kids are
into.
Young the youngest is playingbasketball and soccer currently
with football on the horizonsoon flag football.
My middle has done gymnastics,baseball and cheer in soccer, I

(01:38):
think.
And then my oldest is playsoccer and she's a runner.
So those three are or that'swhat the three of them are doing
, and some of the challenges weface and I think we can talk a
little bit about it later.
What I'm seeing is theevaporation of it's kind of.
This aligns with society as awhole, this evaporation of the

(01:59):
middle class.
I think when we grew up, youhad good kids on your team.
You have bad kids on your team,you had average kids on your
team, and that was thiscombination.
Now you're playing in a veryrec rec league or a very
competitive, competitive league,at least where we're at, which
is in Hamilton County, indiana,and so it provides, I think,

(02:21):
some unique challenges, I think,which we can get into.
But that's one of the thingsthat I'm seeing being difficult
is there is no more middleground.
You're either kind of in or allin.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah, I'll just quickly touch on Mike.
I've got three boys four, eightand ten.
My youngest is not into, he'sinto everything and nothing at
the same time.
We tried to put him in soccerthis past year and, having two
older brothers, he actuallydominated for the first couple
of games and then refused to goback out on the field.

(02:58):
So he played about a fourth ofa season.
We had to pull him out.
That was a whole thing.
About a fourth of a season.
We had to pull them out.
That was a whole thing.
And then an eight year oldwrestler and although it depends
on the day, which is, I'm sure,something we'll get into
wrestles and plays soccer, andthen my oldest plays basketball
and golf.

(03:18):
So a lot of differentchallenges there, I would say.
For me, one of the mostinteresting challenges I've
dealt with is how to teach yourkids commitment and, when they
show a desire to do somethingand they sign up to do something
, how to teach them commitmentwithout forcing them per se

(03:38):
right, as society might suggestforcing them to get out there
and do something that maybethey're not passionate about, at
least for that particular dayor week or month.
So that's something that webattle it feels like there's so
much pressure.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
A lot of times we find our identity in our kids
and maybe their success as asociety.
As we work through that and youguys being in a very
competitive area, these kids arestarting at three, four and
five.
They're putting them in and itkind of feels like I'd love both
of you to kind of touch on this.

(04:15):
But it's like as a parentthere's been times where I've
even felt like are my kids doingenough?
Are they going to be goodenough?
And those feelings creep infrom time to time.
But where you're at I know it'sa whole nother level.
I'd like you to kind of talkabout that specialization and
what the environment that haskind of been created.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
I think this first comment might ruffle some people
the wrong way, honestly, butI'm just going to be
straightforward.
I think that in our firstepisode we talked about our
fitness journeys and I think thefact that we are working at a
high level or at least arelatively high level on a
regular basis kind of shiftsthat perspective a little bit in

(04:55):
regard to living through ourchildren and being out there and
doing it yourself every day.
You understand the commitment,you understand the burden that
can come along with that.
You also understand the reward.
But I think you know thatchanges the perspective a little
bit, and what it's helped me todo is focus on the secondary
benefits because you're right,you're never going to be in the

(05:17):
environment wherein you're nevergoing to be the parent who is
doing the most, and I think thatyou know to be the best for the
kids, to be the best at aparticular sport, a lot has to
coalesce.
You have to have a lot ofnatural talent there, along with
an insane work ethic and whenyou're in an environment where

(05:37):
you know the schools.
In our area the high schoolshave anywhere between 4,000 and
6,000 kids, and I tell thisstory often.
If you think about a basketballteam at a high school.
There's, let's say, 4,000 kids,half men, half women.
So you have 2,000 boys, 2,000girls.
Well, out of those 2,000 boys,only 12 of them need to make it

(05:58):
through the gauntlet right,whether their parents force them
at a young age, only 12 of themhave to be able to survive,
whatever that is, to make it tothat kind of pinnacle, at least
for sub-18-year-olds.
So I think that, having that beyour primary goal, I want my
kid to play high school sports.

(06:19):
It's such a long shot.
For the most part, I happen tohave one daughter who
potentially has the talent to bea high school runner.
It's just, it's such a longshot.
For the most part, I happen tohave one daughter who's
potentially has the talent to bea high school runner.
But I've really, really tried tofocus on the secondary benefits
you guys mentioned to them,right, focus on the consistency,
focus on learning how to dohard work, and when you do hard

(06:41):
work, it does pay off.
So I think that's been a bigthing for me is what are the
secondary benefits they're gonnaget?
Right, socializing with kids,learning about camaraderie,
learning about teamwork,learning about all these other
things.
Again, the struggle is to beable to experience those things
that you get to experience witha team, in our environment at
the level that we would like ourkids to experience.

(07:02):
That you know there's and Iknow I'm digressing a little bit
right, but there's going andpracticing a half hour a week.
You're not going to see thefruits of your labor, you're not
going to see a lot of growththere, and so you want something
a little bit more.
Unfortunately for us, it goesfrom 30 minutes to four and a
half hours, and so you knowthat's where I struggle is my

(07:25):
goodness, I'll say it.
I have a six-year-old son whohas five practices a week and
he's practicing somewherebetween four and six, you know,
maybe seven hours.
He likes it, but of coursethere are days where he doesn't
want to go.
So what we've done is we'reflexible with him.
Some some weeks he doesn't wantto go on a Friday night, that's
fine.
He's six, um, but that's that'skind of where I've struggled.

(07:48):
But I would say that my focushas been more on the secondary
benefits than having this goalout there or defining myself
again.
Um, going back to my my firststatement, I don't define myself
that way because you know I tryto to continue to accomplish
and achieve things athleticallymyself, and I'll let them find
their own path.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Yeah, I would say, and it's probably similarly.
I've tried to embrace it.
What I mean by embrace it is Ithink there are some benefits to
it.
I think, naturally, thesocietal view on this is what a
travesty.
You know, I grew up playing sixsports and now these kids have

(08:31):
to specialize by, you know,whatever age.
And I think there's as there isto everything, there are pros
and cons, and I've tried toembrace it.
I think my orientation on life'svery purpose-driven.
I feel like we all haveGod-given gifts and talents and

(08:52):
I feel like it's our job tonurture those to the best of our
ability, not only in ourselvesbut in our kids right, and teach
them how to maximize the giftsthat God's given them.
And so for my oldest, who's 10,who's pretty far down the path
in basketball and golf, has beenkind of his two sports.
The idea is, you know God'sgiven you gifts in these

(09:14):
particular sports.
How can you prepare and takeadvantage of those right to the
best of your ability?
And I think TJ talked aboutsome.
Okay, so what unique ways doyou also take the pressure off
right?
And it's not like, well, youhave to make the high school

(09:37):
golf team or you have to do this.
For me it's just put forth theeffort.
So in basketball in particular,he is not I wouldn't say he is
athletically gifted in that sofor him, maximizing his talent
might look different.
So, even as he's you call itspecializing, he's focusing on
those two sports.

(09:57):
I think there's a question as towhether or not he'll actually
play competitively, even thoughhe is training fairly heavily
Right, and I think the focus ofthat is allowing him and
supporting him in that he hetrains several hours a week on
playing basketball and a varietyof different plays on a couple
of different teams and doingthings.
But he absolutely loves it, hereally enjoys it, and I think

(10:21):
he's learning some incrediblelessons, just about work ethic,
and he's seeing the growth inhimself, right, and he's
learning some incredible lessonsjust about work ethic and he's
seeing the growth in himselfright, and he's seeing himself
achieve new levels.
He's actually on a schoolbasketball team.
He played last year as a fourthgrader on a fifth sixth grade
team and this year he's fifthgrade and one of the things the
coach does is ask them to goback and watch the film from

(10:43):
prior years, and so he's donethat and he has made several
comments about how much he hasgrown and developed in
basketball, and so for him to beable to see that and then put
in the effort and then seeeffort coming out of that, to me
what a long-term life skill tobe able to understand that when

(11:05):
you put in the effort and youput in the effort the right way,
right um, that you can grow inwhatever way you want you know
it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
You guys both talked about this from different sides,
so you had indicated um miles.
You know, at six years old, isfive nights a week and is
probably experiencing a littlebit of burnout.
You know, and you're talkingabout um noah and his ability to
, you know, want to put all thework in and he's still finding
joy in it, and I know that thatprobably shifts depending on the

(11:37):
on the week.
But how do you?
You know, when we grew up, itwas just different, right, like,
we played a lot of differentsports.
There was a lot of variety,like how do you keep a kid
interested and keep the love andpassion?
You know, because when they aretalented at it you can get
burnt out.
Right, it's always like it'snever enough, it's always more.
Someone's always out workingyou.

(11:57):
How do you, as parents,approach that?

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, I'll just say two things, um, for me that I
think has kept noah engaged andhe's really enjoyed one is, uh,
gamification of it at times, uh,and this is, I would say, uh,
especially for unstructuredtraining.
He's loved to have like certainthings that he can work towards

(12:22):
and goals, and like a structureof doing so many different
things a day.
I would say that that has been,that's been a huge piece.
Tj, why don't you go ahead?

Speaker 2 (12:35):
No, I think you know for me, I think it Caitlin's
probably the most relevantexample, and that's my oldest
and I was talking to somebodyabout this the other day and I'd
love for you to touch on somestuff, because you've had a
completely different journey,coming from a smaller town, and
I know that one of your passionshas been, or one of your
passions is, potentially,providing opportunities for kids
to play sports.
You created a CIFC, which is asoccer club in central Indiana,

(12:59):
and I know there's other thingsthat are on your mind there.
But to jump back to theoriginal question, when it, when
it, when it comes to Kay, it's,I think, thinking about it, you
know, again I go back to.
I said I had a conversationwith a buddy and we were talking
kind of through this and he'slike you know, I was talking
about my approach versus otherapproaches that I've seen out
there, and he's like you'reputting time into thinking about

(13:20):
just doing that.
How, thinking about just doingthat, how to keep it fun for
them, right, and so instead oflike so, for for me it's like
okay, I'm spending time Likeokay, how Caitlin's going to
start training for track here inthe next I think next week or
this week or whatever.
Um, how can I make thissomething that isn't like oh no,
you know I've got to get outthere and I've got to run

(13:42):
whatever.
So you know her mom is trainingfor a half marathon,
potentially next year.
Run a day with mom.
We have a good friend who was ahigh school cross country coach
.
His wife was a collegiateathlete.
She does track work that isrelatively close to what Kaylin
can do.
Go do track work with Heatheron Saturdays.
You know you guys have anindividual that works for you,

(14:05):
dakota, that lives very close.
Go run with Dakota.
You know, run with the body andtraining, which is her track
club team, once a week.
So all of a sudden she's runthree or four days a week.
But it's different, it's fun,it's with different people, it's
different efforts, it'sdifferent experiences.
It's people your age, it'speople that are 20 years older
than you, but it's putting thetime and effort into just being

(14:26):
conscious of when they feel likethey're burned out.
Again, I said earlier with Miles.
You know he unfortunately rightnow has soccer practices
because they're the youngestkids that are Friday night at
five and Saturday at 8 am.
Well, I mean, that's reallyclose in proximity.
So we're not you know whenyou're practicing that much?

(14:50):
I think when we grew up and itwas two practices a week, like
you said earlier, it'scommitment.
You're going to every practice,you're committed.
You said you were going tocommit.
Well, understanding that he'ssix and he's practicing two
nights a week for basketball andthree nights a week for soccer.
It's cool, you can miss one.
You're six, you can even misstwo.
So I think those are twodifferent ways that I've gone

(15:10):
about it is really being dialedinto their kind of, I guess,
perspective and their feelingsand thoughts and being willing
to understand that this is thelong game.
You know my youngest or mymiddle daughter, kennedy I
haven't talked much about her.
She started in gymnastics, kindof following in her cousin's

(15:31):
footsteps, and was really doingvery well, but for whatever
reason, it started to reallygive her anxiety and we pushed
through that for maybe twopractices and again then
realized this isn't worth it.
Luckily she's found somethingelse that she really likes to do
, but just staying dialed inthere.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
I would just quickly add to that I think you also
have to celebrate the progress.
I think that's huge and thatgoes back a little bit to the
gamification, but a lot of timeswith my boys there's been
rewards out there that eitherthey can get or it's just a
matter of recognizing andcelebrating the progress.
I think is huge Because we alllike to get better.
When you can feel that and youcan see that and you see others

(16:15):
see that and you can celebratethat, I think that does also.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
I think you're right.
I think extrinsic is importantand not being afraid to do that.
I think people think thatthat's like a bad thing.
If I give my kids a reward fordoing whatever, whatever, then
they're going to expect it allthe time.
I don't think that'snecessarily the case.
I think eventually, again likeyou said, they start to see
their progress and that becomesthe driver.
But with like a Miles, he hastechnical training twice a week.

(16:39):
That's not fun for somebodythat age.
Working on ball skills anddoing strength and conditioning
is that's boring.
Well, hey, you do yourtechnical training x number of
weeks in a row and you get this.
And then eventually, when he'sseven or eight or nine, if he
continues to do this, it's notthe end of the world.
If he doesn't, he's going toreally, I think, relish the fact

(17:00):
that he has this skill set.
That's just light years above alot of the people he's playing
with and he won't need extrinsicmotivation anymore because
he'll, he'll understand, he'llbe able to make that connection
on, you know, as as to what he'sgetting out of being consistent
with those efforts you knowsports.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
I remember sports being fun, right like we.
We had a good time.
I, I enjoyed playing sports.
I'm sure there were practicesthat I was like I just don't
want to go, or do I really haveto go, but I just remember it
being fun and I feel like and Igo to a lot of different events
and I'm guilty of this as anyoneelse, but there's just so many
parents that are, I think, havesucked the fun out of sports, so

(17:41):
we sit there on the sidelinesand they'll miss kick a ball and
a parent will go nuts, and I'vedone it before.
But it's like, you know, thechild's trying to like, do the
best they can and like.
Can you imagine if that was ourcase, if our dad was on the
sideline screaming every time wemade a mistake?
It's how do you, how do youstay in the right mindset for
that Like as a as a parent or asa coach?
And we all want to becausewe're competitive.

(18:04):
We all want our kids to besuccessful in sports.
I mean, it is about thecamaraderie, it is about
building relationships, it isabout discipline.
I think there's a lot ofintangibles about sports, but
you know, if your kid is maybenot the most gifted and is
sitting on the bench like how doyou, how do you motivate them?
How do you, as a parent,support them and try to

(18:25):
encourage them, maybe whenthey're not being, maybe when
they're not successful orthey're not great at the sport.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
I mean, I always talk to my kids in terms of context
of again the gifts they've beengiven and I always use a scale
of one to 10.
Like, hey, you know, god gaveyou five out of 10 in soccer,
okay, and your goal is to makethe absolute best you possibly
can of that.
And if you can get that to aseven from hard work and effort
and that's where you get tofantastic right.

(18:55):
But I would rather see thatthan God give you a nine out of
10 and you get to an eight andyou end up at an eight right
which technically, is better.
So for me I think it's, I think, realistic expectations and
framing things for them.
So, again, trying to take thatedge of the pressure off of like
I have to be comparative toothers and there are times to

(19:17):
use the competitiveness right.
Tj, you said this yesterday usewhat you can right At times,
but for me that's a big one.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
I think for me it's interesting because for two of
my kids I have this dynamicthey're really good at one sport
and not really good at theother sport, and so Miles is an
example.
He was a really good soccerplayer, at least at that entry
level, and not great atbasketball, doesn't quite have
the strength, doesn't quite havethe coordination.
So two things that I'veexperienced with my oldest and

(19:48):
youngest when it comes tobasketball is they were that kid
who could not get the ball tothe rim for an entire season and
so again it was thinking aboutokay, let's focus on defense,
let's focus on what you can do,let's focus on trying to improve
.
Kaylin's had this dynamic.
She is, you know, at her ageand not everybody's doing it at
her age one of the best runnersin the country.

(20:09):
On the flip side, she justpicked up soccer and she's
playing with girls who, like yousaid earlier, started when
they're three, four, five, sixyears old and they're two
completely different approachesWith cross country.
I can use the competitive sideof things because she does have
confidence in that sport andthere are times when we use that

(20:31):
.
There are obviously other timeswhen we use the friendship she
has there.
Go run with your friends, go,hang out, take it easy, whatever
, um, but she does.
She has gotten to the pointwhere she's got some little
targets out there and she's gotthat kind of internal self-drive
on the other side of it.
It's really like let's kind of.
You know, I listened to somebodysay something that after your

(20:52):
kid finishes sports, don't jumpdown their throat right away if
it wasn't a great game.
Give them time to stew on it,process it.
You know, because imagine youcome home from work and the
first thing your wife does isyou know if she has context to
what you're doing jump down yourthroat about your performance
at work.
Like, give me time to breathe,process and then let's talk

(21:14):
about it a little bit later.
So, you know, if things don'tgo as well, letting them kind of
think about it and then kind ofhaving conversations and
looking for those bright spotsand maybe expounding on those
bright spots.
Kalen, you don't have greattactical footwork, but you do
have a big engine because ofyour running.
So you know, let's focus onunderstanding positioning.
Maybe we'll watch some soccer,maybe we'll do some things that

(21:36):
aren't.
You know this heavy load onyour brain where we're again,
we're watching instead ofplaying and we're doing, we're
gamifying through things outthere like dribble up, and
you're doing a little bit ofthat and we're putting some
carrots out there for you to goafter.
So I think those are twodifferent dynamics, but that's
the way that I keep it a littleless intense for them focus on

(22:00):
going to hang out with theirfriends.
And also the way you phrase ithey, let's go with miles,
specifically, um, hey, you'regoing to go get to play games
with your friends today, andwhen we look at it through that
lens, versus, oh, it's time togo to practice.
Well, you know, and I ask himto what are the names of some of
the kids in your team?
In that that realm, they have50 kids spread up a bunch of
different teams.

(22:20):
So like there's a little gamethere.
Who's who'd you play with today?
How did you score?
Did you stop anybody on defense?
Making sure you're focusing onthe broader game as a whole.
So I think a lot of timesparents get focused on like the
pinnacle of whatever sport.
How many did you score inbasketball today?
Well, it's not just that.
And so this kid's got thepressure that I have got to
score 20 or 25 or whatever.

(22:43):
So you know, I know that's alot, but that's kind of my
perspective on it.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
That's actually one of the hardest things it took
for me to do is the questionsyou ask are huge.
We were just wired to ask howmany points you scored or
similar type things.
To ask the question of did youtry your best, did you put your
best effort?
It's been a shift for me.
It took me a few years tohonestly get there, but I think
over time, the consistency ofthe questions you're asking
because kids naturally are thedesire to please us right, and

(23:16):
so the questions you ask can100% be an asset or a liability
in terms of how they definethemselves and how they define
their success.
If you're asking them how manypoints did they score and after
every game, no negative, noyelling, no, nothing, and the

(23:38):
next game they don't score thatmany points, they're going to
wear that right in some fashion.
But why don't you go back andkind of cover some of this kind
of in your family?
Because I feel like you've gota lot of ends of the spectrum
covered here, from those thatare very interested in sports or
playing or less interested,like what's your.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, so I have four kids.
My oldest is 15 and he is intowrestling recently, kind of golf
and soccer those have been hissports.
My middle daughter, so I havetwo boys on the ends, 15 and

(24:24):
seven, and then my daughters are12 and 11.
And so they're 15 months apart.
But I would say the interestingthing, as we're, our kids are
the older I think I have theoldest three.
They're all so different, right, and they all have different
work ethics and they're allpassionate about different
things.
My girls tend to not want to dothe same things, right, I would

(24:49):
say.
My older daughter, from anathletic standpoint, is higher
on the gifted scale where sheand she is actually loves to put
in the work she is.
That is that's probably.
She started in gymnastics andwas very successful at that at a

(25:10):
young age and then she startedkicking a ball around and really
developed that, you know, intosoccer.
Now she's playing tribalvolleyball.
So she really loves sports andshe really loves to be out there
.
But she's also a perfectionistand maybe something we can talk
about at some point is just,sometimes kids are really hard
on themselves.
My younger daughter is she's anartist.

(25:32):
She sings, she plays piano, shejust is very musically talented
.
So on the God given, you know,she's just one of those that can
hit a note and she's on pitchand she didn't get that from me,
but that's kind of been herstory.
And then my youngest is justkind of running wild right now.
He likes basketball.

(25:54):
But I would say for me just thechallenges have been if I got to
be really honest.
Sometimes I just get this likeand I know when I get there that
I need to be really honest.
Sometimes I just get this likeand I know when I get there that
I need to shift my mind.
But I'm like I get FOMO or mykids aren't living up to
expectations and I really wantto see them be successful in
sports, and so sometimes I getthe mentality of like they're

(26:17):
never doing enough and I knowthat probably sends the wrong
message, like we got to bepracticing, we got to be doing
this stuff.
Or I see him playing videogames or on the television and
I'm like that's a waste of time.
So I'm sure other parentsprobably deal with that as well.
But I'd be interested to hearhow you guys approach a balance,

(26:37):
a balance in life.
I know with my oldest son it'sa huge struggle.
He's a big gamer and he'stalented at it.
If that's a word he loves, toplay, it really is his passion.
He looks forward to that.
And so, as a parent where Idon't see, I played video games

(26:59):
growing up but I don't see a tonof intrinsic value in that
long-term Like, where's thefruit of that?
And I'm always thinking, tryingto position our kids for
success.
Right, like what does successlook?
Like?
It's, you know, it's beinghealthy, it's being happy, it's
it's relationships, formingrelationships.
And so, um, how do you approachgetting your kids a balanced I

(27:25):
want to say a balanced life I'mnot even sure that's the right
word but having that leisuretime to let go and what things
you allow them to be in.
We know there's a lot of sciencearound the addictiveness of
certain things.
Our personalities are somewhataddictive.
I'm afraid to try hardlyanything, because if I get
addicted to it, you know, ifwe've fired up a new video game

(27:47):
right now, we'd be a hundredhours in by the end of the week.
If we had the time right, welike oh, we're going to take
this, we're not only going tobeat it, we're going to get
every single you know armor orweapon or whatever it is.
We go to the nth degree and Iknow these systems are built
around that.
So one of the biggest strugglesI have is balancing how much
time they should be putting inand how much time they should.

(28:09):
You know they come home and sitaround and watch TV for two
hours, knowing when I wasyounger we had television but
like your show was only on atone hour, like you couldn't go
through and had the mindlessscrolling.
It was like you know youwatched cartoons or you know
jeopardy was on or whatever thatthat show was.
It showed from five to six andwhen that was over there was

(28:31):
nothing else to watch and so youweren't.
So I love your guys' opinionson how you, how you even gauge
that Like.
Do you even, like, think that'sa problem?
Is that something that you guysstruggle with?
How do you gauge productivityversus leisure and navigate that

(28:52):
?

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Well, I'd like to, you know yeah, it's, it's a good
thing, I think one of thethings that I'd kind of like to
throw back at you very quicklyand then expound a little bit
more.
You know, so, you know, we weretalking again yesterday about
the.
We've all explained or statedthat we have.
We each have a kid who reallyloves the work, and so for us, I

(29:14):
think it's easier to wherewe're at, to balance because
there's so many options.
You know, you can, you can.
Now that this is, this againgoes back to the original
problem that I spoke of, where,uh, there's no middle class.
If you will, in sports, you canspend in in our area, a
thousand dollars a week onpersonal training for your kid,
and so you can really structurethat and you can make it fun

(29:36):
because a lot of those, a lot ofthose things that they go do
are gamified right, so they'reseeing progress, or there
there's an actual game bakedinto what they're doing on a
day-to-day basis.
So, like you have, um, okay,you're going to do this fun
element of your sport, or thiselement of your sport is
gamified, you're going to dothis two hours a week and you're
going to do this with with thisuh business.

(29:58):
And then we're going to takethis other element of your sport
.
So one of it is one.
One day it's tactical trainingand you're working on this.
Then the next day it's strengthand conditioning, and so you
know, I think for me my kidsaren't self-motivated, meaning
that none of them, you know,during the regular day will go
like, I mean, I remembershooting hours and hours and

(30:20):
hours out front just on our own.
We'd have our friends over, playgames, do whatever.
None of them do that.
If I'm like, hey, you need towork on this, or maybe you
should work on this, why don'tyou try doing this?
Because we all hear it,especially with the way our kids
are stimulated today, I'm bored.
What do I do?
Well, go do this or go do thisNever going to happen.
But when you have thesestructured, gamified

(30:44):
organizations out there thatyour kids can go and engage with
again, I mean I think you saidyour son has three hours of
practice or something on Mondayalone because there's all of
these different opportunities.
I think you could plug Hadleyin or Kalen in or Noah into any
of those situations and theywould love it.
They're around friends, they'reseeing progress, they're

(31:06):
working on specific things.
They're able to make theconnection because they're 10
and 12.
Yeah, they're 10 and 12.
They are able to see the fruitsof those labors.
So I think we've got it easier.
Again, it comes with a price.
It comes with a price, but Iknow you've got this kind of

(31:26):
passion underlying passion forpotentially offering some more
opportunities for kids in yourarea.
So I think, when I say I'd liketo throw it back on you getting
back to that, I know you wantto put some of those things
forward and give themopportunities to engage in those
things.
Is that still something thatyou ultimately want to do?

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah, I mean, where I live in a small town of about,
you know, 25,000, there are notthose opportunities for for the
young kids there.
There are some clubs but Ican't, you know, go down to the
Pacers facility and and take mykids or, um, you know, having
your kids in working ontechnical skills and drills.
There isn't as much opportunityfor that in the area.

(32:09):
So, yeah, I do have a passionof like.
There's no reason becausegeographical location, that we
shouldn't be able to offer ourkids similar experiences.
So that's something that I ampassionate about and would love
to see kind of take off.
And there are several peoplewithin the community that feel
the same way, passionate aboutand would love to see kind of
take off.
And there are several peoplewithin the community that feel
the same way.
It's, you know, the there are alot of very talented people

(32:29):
where we're from and giftedathletes that don't have those
opportunities and it is a littlebit of a struggle but on the
flip side is like if you want toplay a sport in high school,
you can kind of show up andprobably make the team.
So there there is, that abilityto the bar isn't as high and it
isn't as competitive and but atthe same time you know you want

(32:51):
your kids.
I think ultimately you wantyour kids playing in a sport or
on a team that's competitive,right Like in soccer there's,
you know, you get your ECNL,which is your top teams, you got
your regional teams and thenyou got, you know you've got
groups one, two, three and fourand you can find a group of
teams throughout the state thatfits your team and ultimately

(33:13):
you want your kids to be inthere compete.
Very many, very few kids aregoing to be ECNL but, like the
structure that's been developedand the people that have that
are in the bigger cities haveput a ton of effort and work
into like, okay, we're going todo skills and drills for two
days a week and you're going tothis guy they're doing skills
and drills and when they show upfor practice they have at
practice they're learningstrategy.

(33:35):
Well, where we're at, we don'thave enough kids and we're
trying to teach skills anddrills and teach people how to
you know pass, dribble and shootinstead of teaching strategy.
So there are some things withthat.
We've just kind of launched thebuilding.
The foundation on the soccerside we had mentioned is like
this is about skills and drills.

(33:55):
It's like you have to practiceand play.
There is both sides of that andwe can make both fun.
So the bigger cities have, Ithink, created great
opportunities.
The gamification and the kidscan get more engaged, but the
competition's that much stronger.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Yeah, I would just hit on what you said, though,
which I think is leaning into astrength of your area, is they
can play high school sports, andwe look at the fruits of
playing sports from a lifelesson perspective.
Certainly, it's being able tosee progress, and when you put
in effort and grow and developin things cause you're going to
need to do that, you know, inlife but the teamwork being able

(34:39):
to collaborate with others onthe team, learn to support each
other, how to handle situationswhere people are performing at
different levels and how tonavigate that psychologically.
So I think that's a nice thingI just wanted to call out is,
you know, even in thoseenvironments, even though
there's not all the technicalskills and those sorts of things
, I think them being able tocompete in a high school

(35:01):
environment or a similarenvironment is important.
I think they're getting a lotof the fruits of that.
I was going to add one morething to your question earlier
about productivity imbalance.
I would say I probably err, andthis isn't a surprise for
anyone who knows me more.
On the productivity side, itcertainly differs between the

(35:21):
week and the weekend, but Iwould say during the week, 30 to
60 minutes is kind of ourunwind time.
Sometimes that's screen timeyou've got 30 minutes of screen
time and other times that's justkind of winding down.
Otherwise, we try to.
We try to be doing somethingproductive.

(35:46):
And this may be unpopular, myphilosophy is that it's a hard
world out there.
I'm not a person that feelslike happiness is the end, all
be all, so I'm not one who'slike, hey, how do I create the
environment where my kids justhave the happiest childhood and

(36:07):
maximize joy?
Certainly, there's a lot ofelements to what we do to
celebrate, have fun, enjoythings, but for me it's also
being purpose-driven.
It's like we were put on thisearth to leave it better off
than we found it.
How do we invest in those giftsand talents and do that?
And so I lean into some of thatand I expect the same of the

(36:30):
kids and I feel like that is myhope, is my hypothesis is we'll
see how this plays out got along way to go that that will
prepare them for what is adifficult world these days.
I mean it's you know, my middleson was telling me the other day
that he was just going to aslong as he had $200 to buy an
iPad.

(36:50):
That he, you know he was good,you know he didn't need school
or grades or job or whatever,that you know he was really
upset that I wasn't letting himplay more screen time.
But I think you know kids areextremely resilient and they
normalize to things extremelywell and I think sometimes you

(37:12):
create whatever environment youcreate is going to be the
context that sets.
That basically is set for theirlives right In the future and
their expectations of what thatlooks like.
And the more they have and themore freedom they have and the
more flexibility they have andthe more they get to do what
they want when they're younger,in my opinion, the more

(37:33):
challenges a lot of that's gonnapose when they get older and
they're forced to do a lot ofthings that they don't want and
they're forced to interact withpeople that are maybe unpleasant
to interact with, people thatare maybe unpleasant to interact
with.
They have to handle thosesituations, um, in in different
ways.
So, uh, a little bit of along-winded answer there, but I

(37:53):
would say, um, you know, for us,I think, 30 to 60 minutes
during the week and then theweekend's a whole different ball
game well, the.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
The great thing is I think this is why this
conversation is so helpful iswe're kind of the opposite, you
know, I think the crazy thing is, if you look at natural gifts
as a family the physical andmental skill sets required for
video games it's probably ourbiggest gift as a family We've
all.
I remember when we were youngkids leaving the house and

(38:25):
telling their parents like it'son a different level at the
daily house in terms of videogame prowess, and so I think,
you know, we've alwaysgravitated towards that because
our kids see success in thosetypes of things.
But when you know, this isgoing to spiral a little further
away from sports.
But you know, we're a littlebit different in the sense that,

(38:48):
like, we've let our kids havethings a little early.
But I think it's with the sameidea in mind, right?
So?
I have a nine and a 10 year old.
They both have phones.
Most parents that I know are alot of parents that I know, and
I think maybe now it's 50, 50when it comes to that age, you
know, or maybe 25, 75, they waittill middle school or something
to that effect, you know.

(39:10):
But but we see it as a skillsetdevelopment as well, right, so
one of the biggest things weknow from in the business world
is socialization and again andagain, how like you said I think
you're approaching it from Iwant my kids to be able to
handle people or things theydon't like.
Well, I think you know, I, mydaughter one of the things the

(39:33):
kids do nowadays gosh, I soundold.
One of the things the kids dois they have these giant group
phone calls, six or seven peopleon FaceTime and they'll call in
and like they'll just sit thereon the phone.
But when we were young we had 10people at the house every night
after school and that was kindof our way, our way to do that.
But they're learning in realtime, because they're so exposed

(39:56):
to the nuance and the drama andthose things, how to deal with
that, and so they're dealingwith difficult people now at 10
and they're honing that skill.
We do have limits.
They're a little bit moreliberal.
I think my kids have like anhour a day.
You know, miles is one.
That drives me crazy.
I'll wake up at 9am on theweekend and he's already in

(40:18):
front of the TV.
And but then I think again yousaid it earlier and it was a
little different than I remembergetting up and watching an hour
or two of cartoons.
I'll see him on his NintendoSwitch.
We weren't allowed to play,after a certain point, video
games during the week but boy,when the weekend came like 12,
14 hours of video games.

(40:40):
And I think it worked out well.
You know, at the end of the day, because you're problem solving
Again, you know, I think thevideo games to a point are
predatory, withmicrotransactions and things
like that and kind of playingoff the addictiveness of those
things.
And you know, I'm seeing, I'venever understood.
I never understood, like someof the con, I never understood

(41:01):
the drive for these kids to getsome of these cosmetic things in
the video games when we weregrowing up.
If you're putting any moremoney into a video game, it was
directly affecting your abilityto perform in said game.
But I see it now.
Right, I started playingFortnite with my kids.
I used to play a lot of firstperson shooters and I said they

(41:22):
want the in and I'm the default.
I don't have the cool skin.
So I'm walking around and I'mlike, ah, maybe, maybe I'd like
one.
These are $25 a piece to changethe way that you're.
You're $20 a piece to changethe way your character looks.

(41:43):
Um, you know, but but again,there there's more of that
extrinsic motivation.
Hey, if you go to, it's kind ofbalancing itself out.
Right, you go to tacticaltraining both days for two weeks
.
I'll get you a skin, and so youknow they're they're, they're
exposed and experiencing bothsides of things.
They're learning to solveproblems in real time.
I fortunately, because my kidsaren't Roman's age yet haven't
had to deal with extremes, andagain, it does go back to the

(42:04):
fact that there are so many ofthese extra things on the sports
side that just prevent them.
You know, sports at our housetypically starts at 4.30 and
typically ends around sevenevery day.
So there's not, there's noteven a ton of time to do that.
If they got home from school atthree o'clock, when they do,
and had nothing until 8.30 whenthey go to bed, I could see it

(42:27):
being way more of a problem thanit is.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
I think one of the things I wanted to hit on there
that you pointed out, which isgreat, is, I think there are
different levels and again,leaning into the things that
they can learn from these games.
I had a conversation with myeight-year-old the other day.
We were talking about screensand the iPad, in particular,
roblox games, which are verymindless.
There's several they play thatare very mindless, but it's like

(42:51):
, yeah, just like tap, tap, tap,tap, tap, tap.
And they wanted to leave theiPad on when they're not playing
it, because it accrues thethings and it completely starts
to fill up all of theircognitive space.
That's all they're thinkingabout, that's all they're doing.
Everything else is boring.
Obviously, you're getting thosedopamine hits.

(43:12):
You're talking about context,the context for what's boring,
and not on the dangerous side,my goodness.
But the conversation we had wasokay.
We had kind of a detox ofscreen time for a couple of
months and we were going to talkabout introducing it back in
and it was you know what.
Let's start with a couple hoursa week of Madden.
They both love to play Madden,but at least with Madden you're

(43:35):
engaging in the game.
There's a lot of hand-eyecoordination.
There's strategy.
Aging in the game.
There's a lot of hand-eyecoordination, there's strategy,
there's problem solving.
So I think there are differentlevels of games too and,
depending on the orientation ofyour kid and what they're taking
to, there are things to learn.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
I'm glad you brought that up.
That was one thing I was goingto talk about.
Not all screen time is equal,right?
So the YouTube scrolling rightVersus my older daughter loves.
She's watched every full houseand fuller house.
She'll just get on love andjust like to watch episodes.
My youngest daughter watchesepisodes.
So in your guy's mind youtouched on a little bit.

(44:11):
But do you feel like there arecertain screen times that build
skill sets that are better thanothers?
Oh yeah, and I think that'sit's funny, rank them than
others.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Oh yeah, and I think that's it's funny.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Rank them for me.
Talk to me what's the worstpossible one in your mind and
maybe the best possible.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
I want to say something quickly.
I think it's a microcosm ofsociety as a whole.
You're seeing, as technologygrows, you see more and more
predatory behavior from people.
How little can I put intowhatever?
And I think that alignsdirectly how little can I put
into whatever it is to make themost money possible?
You see, on YouTube there'sbeen a lot of stories about
these creators that have kind offigured out the least common

(44:48):
denominator formula and theyreplicate thousands and
thousands of videos that havethese.
You know there's three or fourkey elements that they know will
trigger a kid to engage withthem.
They're completely mindless.
So I would say you know that isprobably, if you rank them, I
would say that anything that isshort form for the most part.

(45:18):
I mean you know again, whenyou're you're letting your kids
do certain things, you try tojustify it.
Right, like, what are theygetting out of this?
Um, my kids are not allowed tohave Tik TOK.
They don't have Snapchat, youknow, but they do have YouTube
shorts, and so I would say thatif, if I want to rank probably
the the least beneficial isYouTube shorts.
Um, you know, we have otherlittle rules around there,

(45:39):
because I do want them.
You talked about a difficultworld.
I do want them to understandthat this stuff isn't real.
You know, like, one thing mykids are not allowed to watch
are those family shows onYouTube, like the such and such
family and the such.
Like.
That's not real people.
It's like what we see as adultson Instagram.
That's not somebody's real life.

(46:01):
They're not always that happy.
I was talking to a buddy acouple of months ago on a run
and he was like it was thecraziest thing.
We were at a holiday party or a4th of July.
It was in the summaries.
We were at a 4th of July partyand this family they were just
at each other's throats thewhole time and then the mom
gathered the kids up to takethis photo and it looks so
pristine and whatever.
And the second the photo wasdone, they were at each other's
throats, so their life is notrepresentative at all versus

(46:24):
what you're seeing.
So I think, with the YouTubeshorts, there's a lot of that
that's misrepresenting whatreality is, and I've even seen,
especially with the young onesat times, where they have this
complete misconception of what'sreal because it's been painted
as something real on YouTube.
So I'd say that's the worst.
Then regular YouTube in general, for the most part, because at

(46:45):
that age there's no ability todiscern what is good from what's
not.
I think, again, justifying myown behavior, because I consume
a lot of content, I like to tellmyself that there's a purpose
to a lot of it and that I'meducating myself in certain
realms.
I think it'll come in handy ina format like this, because I
see a lot, but you know, I thinkYouTube would be the second.

(47:08):
And then there are differentagain, there are different types
of video games.
I really think, though, thedirect correlation is and I
won't finish ranking, because Ithink this kind of does it, for
for me, if you look at theeffort that the developer or the
producer or the director orwhatever put into creating
whatever it is.
I think that aligns directlywith the value that is delivered
to you.

(47:28):
Know, hey, you're not going towatch, you're not going to sit
here and watch youtube all day.
Well, I'll let you watch amovie, because you're going to
learn lessons there, you'regoing to identify with
characters, you're going to seeum, you know.
So I think for me that's how Iwould.
I would rank them is just basedon that we've had very little.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
Uh, I think for me, the way I would look at it a
little bit is me understandingenough about what they're
consuming to be able to set acontext and fill gaps where they
don't have it.
Because you made a great pointthat they're not able to, and so
that's why youtube's prettydon't have it, cause you made a
great point that they're notable to, and so that's why
YouTube's pretty much off limitsunless we're sitting there
watching it with them andgenerally that's very rare or

(48:07):
it's some unique thing thatwe're watching.
Because I think that's the mostdangerous thing is them
consuming content and and us notknowing what it is and not
being able to provide thoseclarifications and those
realities, cause they don't havethe context to digest it.
So to me, I would look at itthat way, that's the worst,
whether it's a YouTube short ora longer YouTube or anything

(48:29):
else that they might be seeing,even on TV.
That's kind of, for me, on thebest side, I think, something
that develops problem-solvingskills, hand-eye coordination I
mean hand, something thatdevelops problem solving skills
and eye coordination, I meanhand.
Eye coordination has becomemore and more important.
It's becoming a more and moredigital world, right.
I think a lot of times I liketo say oh, you know, we went out
, we played baseball, whatever,like we also have to realize it

(48:50):
is becoming a more and moredigital world and some of that
hand eye coordination and thatfamiliarity with technology is
going to come in handy, maybemuch more than it even has in
ARC, because we're just going tocontinue to go down that path.
So, yeah, that's what I wouldadd.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
It's interesting.
You say that I think about.
One of the things that I'mstarting to think about with my
oldest is like what jobs aregoing to be available in the
next 20, 30 years?
And you think about we'reflying drones now versus planes
and you think about some of thatstuff and you guys have made
some really good points thatI've I've kind of realized, like
I know your youngest playsFortnite and and like that, hand

(49:29):
eye coordination.
My youngest is seven years oldand he has beat all the Zeldas,
breath of the Wild and Tears ofthe Kingdom Right, and you're,
there's a lot of stuff that goesinto that from a thought
standpoint.
So what I'm kind of hearing ismore of the maybe games or
movies or screens when they areallowed, it's still tempered
that you know where they candevelop some of those skill sets

(49:51):
would be a better place to.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Yeah, the other thing I would add and I'm going to
add this because I'm horrible atthis I think screens or movies
you said in particular, that'swhat triggered this for me.
I think there's some moviesthat are well done and time
that's invested in those canalso be mentally valuable.
I guess clearing of for me.

(50:16):
A lot of times I have troublesitting down to watch an entire
movie because it's like I'mwasting time.
I could be doing somethingproductive right now,
professionally, or listening tosome self-development, something
, but there's also like you'vegot to unwind, I guess is maybe
the word, and there's justclearing your head mentally,

(50:37):
sometimes engaging in a movielike that and letting it have
your entire focus.
There are some things to take,but just in general, kind of
your body, kind of I don't knowexactly what word I'm looking
for, but just kind of rechargingand kind of to me is something
that I think some of thesescreens, in certain movies in

(50:59):
particular, I think has to offer, in addition to always
developing some sort of skill orwhatever.
I think one of the things thatI will that just kind of
triggered and I would get intobecause I think I do, one of the
things I've gotten into I thinkis unique is providing life
coaches for my kids.
I think a lot of what we do andgoing forward.

(51:21):
I still don't understand whyeveryone doesn't have a mental
coach.
We all have physicians right,or doctors supposed to go to the
doctor once a year or moreoften, depending on what we're
going through.
To me, as I have experienceddifferent levels of success in
this world, I would say everybit of half, if not more, is

(51:41):
dependent on my psychologicalstate than it is kind of my
physical skills, so much ismindset anymore.
Yet we have no overarchingguidance from a psychological
perspective, there's noinstitutional, and I understand
why.
Because it's more subjective.
It's difficult to understandwhy.
Because it's more subjective,it's difficult to understand.
But we have, in particular,invested in what I would call

(52:04):
life coaches and I think theterminology is important.
I think therapists in my opinion, while people are doing a great
job reducing the stigma of that, therapist has kind of a
connotation that something'swrong.
Well, I don't know that thingsare necessarily wrong, they can
be more or less wrong but Ithink, just in living in this

(52:25):
world, our brains, just like ourbodies, are just all over the
place.
We go through different phasesand different times and to not
have anyone who has theinstitutional knowledge to help
us navigate that and talkthrough that.
I think it's a little bit of atravesty, honestly in my mind,
and so we have tried to investin and so this, just going back,

(52:47):
what triggered with the moviesand things kind of helping from
a mental balance standpoint, istrying to give them the tools
and the resources to be able totake on this world mentally and
not just physically.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
That I imagine if some of the listeners are going
to be really intrigued by that,do you mind sharing you don't
have to say who you guys use,but kind of sharing that process
and what you've seen from that.
Yeah, I just.

Speaker 3 (53:17):
I Googled kids life coaches, I think was what I
Googled and I did some researchand reviews on my own and we've
engaged with a few differentcoaches.
Some worked better than othersand we've narrowed in on one
that supports both of our boys.
But I will say it's interesting, she supports us as well, like
she helps unpack us and helps us, you know, deal with some

(53:40):
situations.
We were talking to her theother day about one of our kids
and she was helping us kind ofunderstand maybe what they're
going through and what they'reseeing and kind of coaching us
on how to handle thesesituations.
So it's been extremely I wouldsay extremely valuable.
Like anything with kids, I thinkthings stay fresh.
So we've kind of gotten into acadence of every quarter we'll

(54:02):
kind of have a little bit of arefresh or if there are some
particular challenges.
You know kids, just like adults,go through phases.
We go through challenging times, those sorts of things.
During that we'll re-engage tothe point where one of my kids
had, you know, has been goingthrough feeling some more
anxiety and stress with thingsin sports and school and

(54:23):
actually expressed interest Likehey, I'd like, you know, I'd
like to like, meet with thecoach, and so to me that was
exciting to see there wasactually interest in it, because
they see the benefit but reallywhat they do in those sessions
and they give summaries andthings to us in terms of what
they're going through, butthey're just teaching them basic
things.

(54:43):
Now what I will say is, a yearremoved from those sessions,
those skills are dormant.
Right, you've got to continueto make sure that they're
leveraging those skills andsometimes they need refreshers
to remember how to deploy someof those skills to deal with the
stressors or whatever.
But we have, we have seen it tobe at least very valuable to

(55:06):
this point.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
You know I want to kind of this is going to be
interesting because this is,again, not even really devil's
advocate, but you know cause youmentioned listeners.
You know, and and ability to dothat.
You know, I think there's a lotof people out there, myself
included, and I think all of us,to a point, we all, you know,
we all know that there'sdifferent levels of success and

(55:27):
different levels of you know,play or different placements in
society.
And you know, no matter who youare, you've got to make a
conscious decision on where tohow to live your life, where to
spend your money, you know.
And so one of the things thatI've grown appreciative of and

(55:49):
I'll get to where I want to getto, but this is going to be a
little bit of a roundabout wayis specification.
So people that spend time justthinking about one thing we all
have those strengths.
Some of us are more jacks ofall trades than others, but,
like you know, going kind ofback to the therapist side of
things, I've been talking to aguy recently, again just on runs

(56:12):
, who is a very successful coachin that kind of same space, not
professionally trained at all,but he spends all day thinking
about these different angles,different approaches, different
ideas, different ideals, how toimplement things, how to boil
things down.
He's looked at those things andattached them to the spiritual

(56:34):
side and the religious side ofthe world and how to implement
some of the learnings andteachings from scripture out
there in life and whatever.
So you know, I want to thereason I go that route and the
reason I say that is becausewhere you are way more
productive than we are, um itfor me I'll speak to myself way
more productive than I am,You're.
You, seemingly, from an outsidelooking in, are constantly,

(56:55):
always doing something, um, toimprove, you know, and so you're
as busy as they come.
And so I think, because of that, having the life coach, because
of that you've been able togenerate a certain lifestyle for
yourself and because of that,it's like this double-edged
sword right, you're busy enoughthat you don't have time to sit

(57:17):
around and think about how can Ibetter my kids from from a
mental perspective, um, butbecause of the hard work you put
into day-to-day life and andwhat you've generated from an
income perspective, you can, youcan reach out to somebody else
to help you do that with yourkids.
I would want to encourage peopleout there that and I know there

(57:38):
are those of you who areprobably split at the seams
right You're working a job, yourwife's working a job.
You don't have the income toafford someone to help mentally
coach your kid or yourselves.
I think that spending a littlebit of time here and a little
bit of time there like we talkedabout earlier and thinking
about things the best you can,just being cognizant I think

(58:00):
that's the one of the biggestthings cognizant and or
conscious of the fact that yougot to focus on we, you've got
to focus on that element andthat part of yourself and of
your children.
We've seen, um, the I don'tknow what, what, what you want
to call it, you know, obviouslyover the last 70 years call it
from the, I'm sure way, wayfurther back than that We've

(58:22):
seen kind of the shift in it, infocus on the importance of
mental health, because you knowyou have people who for decades
and decades and decades kept itbottled up inside and lived
miserable lives and had a lot, alot of regrets because they
never did address that type ofthing.

(58:42):
So I just wanted to kind of callthat out, because I'm sure
there are people out there.
Like gosh, I don't have themoney to invest in this
particular thing, but just beingconscious of it in and of
itself is, I think, reallyimportant.
And if you can spend some timeto think about how to help them
deal with those things, even ifit's going in a routine we have

(59:03):
is every kid gets like 15 to 20minutes every night, we kind of
sit down and we talk throughthings, we spend that extra time
, if you have it, to kind ofunderstand their perspective and
I think that's important.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
To me.
I would say that's the mostimportant.
In fact, in some of ourcoaching sessions that's one of
the things they say is and youhear this more broadly people
don't care what you know untilthey know that you care and that
applies to the kids too.
And if you don't have anunderlying relationship and a
connection there, it's verydifficult for you to be able to
provide guidance.
And I think sometimes I thinkto your point provide guidance,

(59:46):
and I think sometimes I think toyour point, that is the
intentionalness from a parentalperspective, to have awareness,
to be cognizant of it and tosupport from a psychological
perspective as well, I think isabsolutely the most important
part of it.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
You guys both kind of touched on this, but it's like
productivity, which we're wiredfor, versus leisure, and I think
there's a balance of that in us.
And they said you know, I lovethe saying, it's like who's your
favorite kid and they're likethe one that's most like you,
right, like it's easy to relate.

(01:00:17):
But as parents it's toughenough to judge productivity and
leisure on our own levels.
Like all three of us are, I'mprobably the blend.
You're probably more leisureand you're more productive and
I'm kind of sitting in themiddle.
But that for our kids it'sreally tough to balance.
That, yeah, it is really toughto balance.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
That, yeah, it is.
We've kind of gone with a love,hard, discipline hard kind of
mindset.
I think the relationships,however you approach it, the
relationships have to be there.
The quarterly trips that I takewith the boys, that, and

(01:01:00):
sometimes it's just, yeah, youknow nothing extravagant, but
it's like we'll go downstairsand we'll have a Madden night or
you know, we'll go wherever andjust spend time together.
It's challenging, it's justchallenging in today's

(01:01:20):
environment to find the time andnavigate and keep it all
balanced.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
Well, we've really come full circle.
We started kind of with sports.
We've kind of gone through thegamut of maybe some of the
challenges we've had withraising our kids and with what
they, um the environment thatthey live in is different than
the one that we live in.
Um, if I feel like you guyshave done a pretty good job with

(01:01:48):
removing the your, youridentity from the success of
your kids in sports and maybethat's that's the environment
you're in and thecompetitiveness, and just
realizing that environmentyou're in and the
competitiveness and justrealizing that being the best is
is unlikely, uh, genetically,um, with 4,000 kids at a high
school, not impossible.
Um, any advice you want to givearound that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
I mean, I just think, fortunately for us.
I think one of the things isyou can be comfortable that
you're checking the box.
Now, that's one of the thingsthat always is whenever we are
preparing for anything.
You know, you like I for onelike to over index and
preparedness, so feel like I'vedone all I can do and I think,
with everything that's offereddown here and or where we're at

(01:02:38):
that, for the most part I'mchecking all the boxes I can,
because then you and that givesme kind of peace of mind that
you know for me to do any moreand to put them in any better
position, I'm going to have tolook at, like, really, what are

(01:02:59):
our values as a family?
Like, hey, all right, well, doyou want to be a family that
takes vacations?
Okay, well, not if we're goingto take it to this level in
sports.
Or do you want extravagantgifts or gifts in general at
birthdays?
Do you want big birthdayparties?
Well, not if we're going totake it to this level in sports.
So you know, I think, where ourvalues are lying as a family

(01:03:21):
today is great, it works for usand, given those guardrails, you
know, I'm able to feelcomfortable that we're doing as
much as we can for them, puttingthem in the best position
possible.
Again, spending time thinkingabout it is, you know, and I
think we're seeing the fruits ofthose labor and I'm fruits of

(01:03:43):
that labor and I'm confidentthat the those secondary
benefits we talked about, whichI think are the most important
at the end of the day, all thethings they're learning outside
of being really good or reallyproficient at a specific
activity, is all the benefitsthey're getting on the side.
I think you know that's a bigthing.
Now, I can't say that.
I think we all get wrapped upin particular performances at

(01:04:05):
times and like, get you know, Ihad it last week, my daughter
again, who I said is kind ofmore you know, she's learning
soccer.
They played they're playing inan indoor league, a five on five
indoor league, and they playedagainst a team who had four
girls they had five and they gotbeat 18 to one and it was one
of those uh with, and again theother team was a person down and

(01:04:28):
it was one of those thingswhere you go to a game and I
think the way I articulated itat the time is you said
something earlier about you,about the different tiers of
soccer and you just want them tobe in a competitive environment
.
If they're not winning the war,at least they're winning
battles.
Here and there they might getbeat 5-0, but they're winning
these little battles throughoutthe match.
And then there are games, likewhat happened to my daughter

(01:04:49):
last week, where they just gotthrottled, had no business
playing that team, there wasn'tanything that came out of it,
and so I was furious and thatwas a fault in myself.
You know I left dejected and Iwas projecting my feeling, and

(01:05:09):
you know I let her calm down fora little bit, but then I made
the comment like, well, what areyou going to do?
Are you going to lay down andtake it?
Are you going to use that angerand drive you forward and get
better and get better?
Um, we ended up talking throughthat.
You know, later on down theline, um is actually after her
last game this last week and Iexplained that I was kind of in

(01:05:30):
the wrong.
For you know, and there aretimes in life where you need to
learn how to take that, whateveremotion it is, and translate
that into productivity or intoum success.
But yeah, I mean for me, thoseare some of the different things
that I do to kind of keep mypersonal and again I'll mention
it and I mentioned it four timesgetting out and being active

(01:05:52):
yourself and having thatvalidation through doing your
own thing.
I think you know and I see it,man, there's a particular
cross-country um, this iswhatever it's, it's our podcast.
I'll be judgmental.
There's this girl who runs fora team, uh, in a different part

(01:06:12):
of the state, who's pretty goodand her mother's there and is
just, she has a reputation andand over three years everyone
knows who she is because she'sso loud, so aggressive, so into
it, so over the top.
And again, I'm judging a bookby its cover, but it looks like
that this is her thing.

(01:06:33):
She's living through herdaughter.
It doesn't look like there'sbeen a fitness journey.
Again, maybe there has, but itseems that this is all she has
and if this doesn't work out,it's the end of everything um, I
think that's a trap that a lotof parents fall into you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
You want whether you had success in sports in high
school or you want your kids tolive up to that.
I'd love to throw one moredynamic into this.
We've talked about the physical, we've talked about the mental,
but we haven't really talkedabout the spiritual side of
things, and one of the thingsthat I've realized a few years
ago is the number one thing Ican try to help instill in my

(01:07:14):
kid is kind of confidence andself-worth.
I'd love to hear how you guys,from a spiritual standpoint, how
you incorporate that or usethat with your kids, if at all.
Maybe you don't, but I'mcurious to see how that
integrates into this process ofraising kids and teaching them
lessons and helping them prepare, because the spiritual

(01:07:38):
component is arguably one of themost.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Surprise, surprise, as you alluded to earlier, mine
is more casual.
Out of the three of us, myreligious journey has probably
had the most bumps in the road,but a couple of years ago, when
Kay started running, it was witha track club cross country team
, body and training and it is aChristian basedbased,

(01:08:01):
faith-based organization andthey are very true to that word.
This isn't a oh, we'reChristian, we're faith-based,
whatever.
Every single week there aredevotions and the kids are being
taught about and havingdiscussions with their smaller
groups about particularscripture and verses and how

(01:08:22):
those are applicable to life aswell as whatever sport they're
participating in.
A lot of the kids who've beenin this program for a really
long time, they have alreadymade those connections and they
have this vast library ofscripture that they have aligned
with different elements withintheir sport.

(01:08:49):
And most of them and you hearthis and I love this because
it's something that I've seennow executed so often in
professional sports the firstthing somebody says when they
come up to a podium is glory toGod.
And I think that, unless you'vereally seen people utilize that
pathway for their own success,right, I'm suffering for the

(01:09:10):
glory you know you call intoquestion.
Are they just getting up thereand saying that, because that's
the right thing to say when youwalk up to a podium.
So seeing some of these olderkids implement things like hey,
coach, can you pray for me whileI'm running?
Or I'm praying for other peoplewhile I'm running, because that
takes the focus off myself andthe pain that I'm feeling with

(01:09:31):
inside and it allows me toproject that on other people.
Or, you know, I'm using thegift he's given me.
We always use the Prefontainequote to give anything less than
your best is to sacrifice thegift, and you mentioned that
earlier.
So you're running for the gloryof God, trying your best to
glorify the fact that he'sgiving you this skill set is, I

(01:09:52):
think, the utmost, the mostimportant thing you can do.
So that's how we've worked itin.
It's not very structured but,through exposure and experience,
has been something that hasbeen very important, especially
for her in specific.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
Yeah, I mean I won't just repeat a lot of that, but I
would say very similar in termsof honoring God with the skills
and gifts, talents you've beengiven.
What I think is unique aboutthis whole parenting thing, and
what I think is frustrating andbeautiful about it at the same
time, is there's no right answer.

(01:10:27):
I think the right answer isdifferent for every family.
As you've heard, even growingup together and having a similar
set of values instilled in us,we all still have different
orientations and I think theycan all be right answers because
it's for us and for our familyand how we're each wired and how

(01:10:48):
we interact with our families.
And I think my thought processon this and what I continue to
spend a lot of time on and stayclose to is what's important at
the end of the day, right.
And so I think sometimes we allnaturally get caught up in the
moment and I think what I tryand continue to do is have as

(01:11:10):
big a picture mindset as I can.
As frustrated as I might bewith how one of the kids played
in a sporting event, when I stepback and understand kind of the
grand scheme of things and canstep out of that moment.
That's super helpful for me andI think what goes along part
with that is what do you wantfor your kids?
Like understanding that I meanI've.
I've heard you've got your TigerWoods of the world, where I

(01:11:33):
think Eldrick Woods, his dad,wanted him to be the best golfer
in the world and inspire peoplein that regard.
Right, and there were a lot ofwhat I think society would call
dysfunctional things thathappened in that family in order
for him to get to that point.
But that's what he wanted forhis kid, and certainly someone
could argue that that has beenin.
You know, tiger has beeninspirational for a lot of
people in the world from a golfperspective and now, was that

(01:11:56):
worth the sacrifices?
And you get into a subjectivequestion there.
I've got others that I'vetalked to.
That said, I just want my kidto grow up and be a very
emotionally well-rounded,supportive person who can
successfully interact andsupport others in society.
Right, just, really emotionallyintelligent and has a high

(01:12:18):
quality of life.
I always love the Tony Robbinsquote quality of life is not
what you have, but how you feel.
And so that's what they want fortheir kids and they're going to
parent accordingly and so Ithink it's understanding you
know how you are oriented, whatyou want for your kids and
working with them to understandwhat they want and then
supporting them in that fashion.
And so I think, if you haveyour eye on that prize and on

(01:12:39):
that outcome, most of our kidsaren't going to play sports
professionally, so playingsports isn't about necessarily
the level of success thatthey're going to achieve,
because they're very most likelynot going to make a living
doing it.
So what are those values andthings that you're trying to
instill?
How do you maintain thatconfidence?
And I think the spiritual layerto close back with that is an

(01:13:01):
incredible foundation to buildupon, and that's where I think
it's important, from knowingyour beloved child of God from a
confidence perspective that youknow you're uniquely gifted
with certain talents and thingsto deploy.
I think you know those are allextremely valuable foundations
to set that can then be builtupon.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
I like one more thing on the back of that.
You made it.
It just triggered something.
You made a comment about havingspecific skill sets and I think
that's something that's so cool.
That is learned in sport is thatyou know if you're on a team a
soccer team and you have Xnumber of people on the field or
a football team.
Everybody has these specificskill sets and you learn to

(01:13:44):
appreciate those.
You learn to understand whatyou're good at and you're not
good at and helps you, I think,um, find your place in society
and be creative with the skillsthat you have to end up doing
what you want, versus peoplethat don't experience, that
don't know how to.
I think that's where you see andyou guys see it a lot and we

(01:14:05):
can talk about this in anotherepisode where you see struggle
and strife in the workplacebecause it's me, me, me, me, me
it's what can I get for me, andthis person is encroaching on my
thing versus like sitting downand I've even had this feeling
inside lately, some stuff that'shappened in my organization.
But I know at the end of theday, it's okay.
Let's sit down and figure outhow we can best deploy each

(01:14:27):
other's skill sets or otherskill sets within our
organization to appreciate whatthey've spent their career
building, and if there's someoverlap we'll figure it out.
I think sports really teachesyou to appreciate those other
approaches of different peopleand what they're good at and
really find joy in the successof other people, where in a lot
of other instances today wedon't see that because it's joy.

(01:14:48):
We believe it's joy or it'sachievement at an impact or
detriment to us.

Speaker 3 (01:14:54):
I want to kind of ask you the question you asked us.
I mean spiritually, I thinkyou've probably been as active
as any of us, probably the mostactive, in living that out and
embodying that or embedding thatinto your family in certain
ways.
What just triggered, as youwere talking about this?
We're all talking about how tobe successful in the world,

(01:15:14):
right In the world, in the world, in the world, and one could
argue, if you have any sort of,whatever your religious
orientation if you have one,let's just use Christianity, for
example the goal is to get toheaven, right, and so that
really frames all of this oflike.
Certainly we want our childrento be able to be successful in

(01:15:35):
this world, but at the end ofthe day, you know, again,
depending on your spiritualorientation, to get to heaven
like, talk, talk about that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Yes, one of the things I always talk about is
kingdom greatness versus worldlygreatness.
Part of my journey in about iskingdom greatness versus worldly
greatness.
Part of my journey in life isworldly greatness and worldly
success is what kind of drove meas a person until I realized
that wasn't exactly what I waslooking for.
And I think what?
Again, spirituality in generaland for us, christianity is what
I say.

(01:16:07):
You know, I don't believe.
I think churches are important.
I think that having a supportin a group is important, but one
of the most important things islike how did Christ live his
life?
And that's what I try to goback to.
And if you read the Bible,christ lived his life to
basically serve other people,and I think the lessons that

(01:16:28):
come out of that when you'respiritually dialed in, you're
generally not focusing onyourself.
We spend so much time onself-focus and really, when
we're focusing on ourselfinternally, that's when we have
the most strife, right, like, oh, this didn't work out, or why
is this happening to me?
When I find myself thinkingabout myself, that's when I go
through the slew of emotions,good or bad, right.

(01:16:50):
And so one of the things thatI've learned through my journey
through Christianity and theBible is like Jesus.
Whether you believe in him ornot, you could argue he's a
pretty phenomenal dude becausethe way he lived his life, he
gave his life for everybody, heserved people.
And so the lessons that I'mtrying to embody to my kids are
to live in a life of humility.
Right, you talk about being ona team, appreciating others'

(01:17:13):
gifts, like if we're notself-focused and we're reading
stories and we're talking thingsabout what did this person do
and what's their gift.
And, like, my really competitivedaughter, who's a really good
soccer player, is now for thefirst time trying travel
volleyball and she is not in thefull rotation and she's having
a hard time coping with.
You know, why am I having tosit out?

(01:17:36):
One of the two girls that hasto rotate, and the truth is it's
great for her, but it's like,okay, what role am I playing and
how am I living into that roleand how can we shift our mindset
?
And so when you bringspirituality into the whole mix,
it's like focusing on otherpeople, lifting other people up,
giving my best, like all thoselessons of how Jesus lived his

(01:17:57):
life I think are great lessonsfor us and for kids, Because one
thing that I've realized aswell is like and you talked
about this in the last episodeit's like seeing other people be
successful, is like one of thegreatest emotions there is in
life.
It's like seeing other peopleachieve and lifting other people
up.
And yeah, we want to besuccessful too, but there's a

(01:18:19):
when you're in the role of acoach and you're helping other
people and even my otherdaughter, who's also playing
travel volleyball I said I wantyou to go out this last game and
I want you to be the hype girl.
I want you to like, I want youto bring all the energy and I
want you to do the dances andthe claps when they do the ACE.
And and I bribed her as mostparents would, and she did it
and she loved it, she came, shehad more energy in that.

(01:18:40):
So, whether your daughter orson is the hype person and they
can just bring energy to asituation or they can lift
others up like that's just asmuch as important as I think
anything else.
And that's where I think youknow having a spiritual belief
and believing in somethinggreater than you and focusing on
yourself is super important.

Speaker 2 (01:19:01):
Well, I know you closed this out, but I think
that's the perfect place to endthis and I think there's a lot
we're talking about that.
You know I'd love to explore onthe business side in a future
episode, but continue, there's alot we're talking about that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
I'd love to explore on the business side in a future
episode, but continue, okay.
Well, that's a wrap.
Thank you guys for again.
I hope everyone is getting somevalue here and look forward to
episode three.