February 14, 2025 • 53 mins
What drives your lifestyle choices—your own values or the expectations of others? Join us as we unravel this complex question, drawing from a conversation sparked during a run that unveiled the contrasting priorities of minimizing work for family time versus the pressures in affluent communities. We dig into the psychological tug-of-war between personal freedom and societal expectations, questioning how money can both liberate and bind us. The discussion takes a deeper look at how status and the communities we belong to can redefine our need for material wealth and the ways these influences shape our pursuit of happiness.
As we navigate the evolving dynamics of social interactions shaped by technology, we reflect on the shift from close-knit neighborhood communities to the isolating expanse of modern living. The importance of fostering connections through community involvement, meaningful experiences, and unsupervised play takes center stage as we explore how these elements can enhance personal satisfaction. Listen to stories from the Dominican Republic and elsewhere that illustrate how expectations can influence happiness, and learn how aligning with communities that prioritize virtues over materialistic pursuits can lead to a more fulfilling life.
Finally, we shed light on the impact of parental influence and the challenges faced by children of successful individuals. Discover how to balance resources wisely to cultivate opportunities without imposing unrealistic expectations. As we wrap up, the conversation turns to the exciting potential of investing in quality time and experiences. We share personal anecdotes of unforgettable adventures and the joy found in nurturing relationships, emphasizing that the most valuable returns often come from the simplest, most intentional moments.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Daily Edge where we bring you the
latest insights, opinions andthought-provoking conversations
to give you that competitiveedge in life, business and four
of the Daily Edge.
Welcome everyone, glad youcould join us today.
Tj's kind of got a surprisetopic for us about lifestyle and
(00:31):
curating a lifestyle, so I'lllet you take it away.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Sweet.
So this kind of came up andmost of my stories start with I
was on a run with a guy or agirl.
This was on a run with aparticular individual and we
were talking a little bit aboutlifestyle I think this was born
out of.
Even within marriages, theretends to be sometimes a
dichotomy between husband andwife.
(00:54):
In my marriages it's like thatwhere if I wasn't married with
kids, I would probably live in atiny house in the woods because
I just don't care, it doesn'treally matter to me.
However, I do see the benefitsof the lifestyle that I've
curated.
I do enjoy again same themehappiness, but this individual.
(01:14):
I was taught happiness, seeinghappiness throughout my family.
But this individual I wastalking to is in the space, in
the life coach space.
We've kind of talked about thisand he has made some conscious
decisions.
He does well for himself, Iwould say by almost any measure,
but has decided that for him itis important to minimize the
(01:37):
amount of overall work, maximizetime with family and do a lot
of spending a lot of time innature.
Therefore, the house is alittle smaller, owns a
reasonably sized RV, does a lotof traveling, has curated his
work life so that his weeks arepretty much done by Wednesday
(01:59):
and he can kind of do what hewants, and they found happiness
as a family through that.
I thought it would beinteresting to kind of explore.
We all have differentlifestyles and I think at a lot
of times that people find otherpeople unapproachable because of
the way they perceive theirlifestyle from the outside.
Looking in In the area that welive, todd and I, in specific,
(02:23):
there are a number of what Iwill say, those neighborhoods
where you see 10, 12, 15,000square foot houses and you're
wondering why, why would you dothat?
That seems so grandiose andunusual and whatever People
judge based on those factors.
So I thought it would be veryinteresting to kind of explore
(02:44):
that.
And I think it does one thing ithumanizes people that choose
this lifestyle for a particularreason, whatever that may be,
and then we can look at you know, I know that you have expressed
like even starting a businessaround tiny houses, so like kind
of looking at both sides ofthat, and then we can talk a
(03:07):
little bit more about again, youknow, the way that people are
perceived, even the way that wefeel we are perceived because of
how we put ourselves forward,whether that be intentional or
not.
So, that said, I'd love to kickthis off with, I guess, kind of
a question.
I'll just kick it to you, trent.
(03:29):
You know your family has somethings that you guys enjoy doing
and you're in a community whereyou may be painted into a
particular corner because of theway people perceive the way you
live.
So I'd like to just get yourperspective on that.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, that's real interesting.
I was listening to a podcastI'm going to do the Donald Trump
weave here for a second and itwas about the psychology of
money and it was Huberman andthey just talked a lot about
what drives different lifestylesand how people value money and
there's several different things.
(04:08):
But one of the things theypointed out is like people
really don't fall in love withmoney.
They generally fall in lovewith things, but one of the
things he said is part of it iscompetitiveness.
Right, like I think you get inthose in certain neighborhoods
or certain things where how muchmoney do you need to be happy?
Well, I need just a little bitmore than my neighbor, and I
(04:30):
think that's a trap that a lotof people fall fall into is they
want to be doing just a littlebit better than than the next
person.
But really, I think lifestyleand the way that he approached
money was it's about.
Money creates freedom.
It creates independence in yourlife and if you can make a
certain amount of money andthat'll allow you to have the
(04:51):
freedom, as you talked with theguy that you ran with, he has
the freedom to go and do as hepleases because he has made
enough money.
Well, you can make a lot ofmoney and still be a slave to
money, depending on yourlifestyle.
So the question that's reallyintriguing to me on this whole
topic is is, like, whatinfluences you to have that
lifestyle?
Like what is that?
You know that, that we're likewhat things around you or what
(05:15):
internal you know I'm not goingto call them demons, because
they could be good things butwhat are those internal things
inside of us that make us choosea lifestyle?
It could be our internal choice.
It could be a family member ora spouse or kids that we're
trying to live up to, but Ithink a lot of lifestyle has to
do with like an interpersonalstruggle to some extent.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I'd love, yeah, I, just I want to.
This is going to be a veryinteresting topic.
I'd love to explore that alittle more and just I don't
know, let's get some of yourthoughts on just this whole,
just this whole situation.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Uh, it's extremely, uh, fascinating one.
I you know we talk about kindof how the human uh, the, the
evolution of the human body andsome of the things that we're
wired for and not wired for.
I think one of the interestingthings about the human body
there's kind of in my humanpsyche, probably more so there's
(06:13):
a couple of competing thingshere.
One is the desire to belong andto fit in and to have status.
I think a lot of times thoseget a bad connotation but those
are deeply wired into us becausewe're very communal people and
that's how we survived andbasically survived is probably
(06:36):
the word right and so we'redeeply wired there.
And then there's this part ofus that also has this unique
ability to normalize to oursituations.
We talked about this in anotherepisode about kids and how they
do that.
But humans can do this reallywell as well, right, like you
were in the back of your car forsix weeks and probably about
(06:56):
three or four weeks into it,that got to be a norm.
Not that you wanted to do thatindefinitely, right, but like
you know, you normalized to that, and I think that's what's
really interesting.
Is we?
I think those two things are.
It's a, it's a psychologicalbattle, almost a philosophical
battle, of knowing that you'llnormalize to a lower standard of
(07:17):
living if you allow it, but atthe same time you're fighting to
belong and to fit in and tohave a status within a society
that is you know.
I think we have to againacknowledge that that's just an
evolutionary reality that'sbaked deeply into us.
So for me, I kind of just findthat back and forth fascinating.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
So there's two paths I want to go down First of all,
and I'll look up the author ofthe book.
But there's a book I readrecently called the Status Game,
and it was really about pursuitof status within any type of
community.
And I wonder if and I love bothof your thoughts on this I
wonder if you found status in aparticular community, if it
(07:56):
maybe pushes you in a directionthat you don't necessarily need
to seek it out in others.
So this particular individualthat I'm referencing has a very
supportive, tight-knit fitnessand strength community.
He's kind of the central figurethere, kind of the king of it,
(08:17):
if you will.
He has status in that community.
So maybe and again I'm justmaking assumptions here or kind
of shooting in the dark butmaybe because of that he doesn't
feel the need to seek statusthrough materials, which I think
, like you said, has become thislowest common denominator
(08:39):
because everything's so readilyavailable with Amazon and with
just, I guess, property ingeneral.
So I'd first love your thoughtson that and then I kind of have
a follow-up on that.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, I think we all try to find our identity in
something right.
We do want to belong.
I think you can find youridentity in work.
You can try to find it inthings.
I think there can be acompetitiveness to that whole
process.
You know, I don't know if I'dsay that directly in the Bible,
(09:16):
but it's not money itself, it'sthe love of money, it's what you
actually focus on and what youvalue.
And really what I found is I'vebeen fortunate enough to kind
of experience the other side ofthat and it's just not all it's
cracked up to be.
And I don't think everyone getsto go through that experience,
(09:38):
and if they do, it's atdifferent ages.
But it's a never-ending gameand the key is to find happiness
and joy with where you're atand do it in a way that keeps
you from being a slave to money,right?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, a couple of things.
This is just a separate, wholephilosophical thing I've always
been curious about is who lovesmoney more, the saver or the
spender?
Right, I just always thoughtthat was interesting, that I
think a lot of times the saversget up in their Eiffel Tower and
kind of like to fire bullets atthe spenders of love and money.
But it's an interesting thingif you could argue so.
(10:15):
Anyways, that's a wholeseparate conversation.
What I was going to say is Ithink what's interesting about
this and when I've tried tocontrol this a little bit is the
community.
We've talked about community.
Who are the five people or thecommunity that you're
surrounding yourself with?
Because they value differentthings and to your point that
you gain status different waysin those communities.
I can tell you, in my spiritualcommunity, my Christian
community, it's just theopposite.
(10:35):
We had a guy just trade in aTesla for a 2007 Lexus RX,
because it's almost like a raceto the bottom right Of like how
can you live a more frugal lifeand give more um or uh?
You know, the things that aregaining you status and that sort
of community are more virtuousthings, like habits that you're
(10:58):
taking.
Are you showing up for track.
Tuesday at five 15 in themorning.
Are you getting to adoration?
Are you doing these things,that and so what I've found, and
I've tried to do to modify myown behavior, is really find a
community that values the thingsor that promotes status based
(11:21):
on very virtuous behaviors thathave a lot of depth to them.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
On the flip side of that is, I think, how you choose
to live, and lifestyle alsoseparates you, right?
It's like if you live on sixacres and you're not in a
neighborhood, you miss out onthe neighborhood thing.
So I found that money reallyends up separating you, at the
end of the day, from more of acommunity.
(11:48):
If you let it right, if you, ifyou choose to take those paths
or buy the bigger house or moveto the different neighborhoods,
you're going to be in a placethat, um, it's going to probably
divide you and keep you moreisolated than it's going to
bring you into a community Insome instances.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I wanted to unpack the saver and spender philosophy
.
The comment that you made.
That was one of the things Iwanted to explore, because you
hear a lot of cynicism out therein regard to people making
comments about if they've donewell, whatever that may be.
It may be making a hundredgrand a year, maybe making a
hundred million a year, and theperson receiving the message
(12:24):
maybe they haven't made it Intheir mind, you know, maybe
they're only making 100 a yearand 500 is that mark, and the
person that has done well sayswell, you know, I've been on
both sides and having the moneyisn't all it's cracked up to be
and money doesn't buy youhappiness.
And you hear a lot morecommentary.
Now.
You know, I think that people,when the media outlets were much
(12:48):
less available and I think justsociety as a whole, people were
more controlled in theirverbalization of things, so they
weren't, as I wouldn't even say, uncouth, but they, they, they
just weren't as aggressive withtheir commentary.
You know people would makecomments like that and people
(13:11):
there would be whispers.
Now people are coming out andkind of attacking that their
cynicism.
Oh well, of course you'resaying money doesn't buy
happiness and it's easierbecause you have it.
You know.
Um, I would love to expand and Ithink maybe we all can to a
point because we all are verywell aware that there is a level
of success and in differenttiers of it, but we're nowhere
(13:31):
near what the top looks like.
Elon Musk's net worth just hit$400 billion, like that's bigger
than Costco.
So you know, I would love toexpound and talk a little bit
about why you feel confidentmaking that comment that it
isn't necessarily all it'scracked up to be if you don't
have the right underpinnings isextremely happy where he's at in
(14:09):
his journey and does not have aprofession that you know pays
significantly well.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Um and so, and I mean I've done, I've been on a few
trips.
I was able to go to theDominican Republic for, um, a
missions trip and you, you see,and you hear time and time again
people are happy that have, youknow, literally nothing in
comparison.
And I think it goes back tothat normalization of when you
(14:35):
get exposed to, and I think whatyou get exposed to growing up,
like we had a father that youknow it was always the best, it
was the.
You got to get the best, thebest seats, the best, the best
steak, and it was like kind ofingrained us, like if I'm going
to buy something, the moreexpensive it is, the better it
is.
That was kind of ingrained, atleast into me, and so maybe it
is a point in time and maybe itis tongue in cheek to actually
(14:57):
even say it.
It's like, well, it's easy nowthat you've got there, it, it,
it's really hard to explain.
I know several people thathaven't gone down that path and
that are really, really happy.
So if money was really the truehappiness, if it really made
you happy.
I think there would be proof inthat right, and there are.
People wouldn't be able to behappy with lower amounts of
(15:18):
money.
But again, it goes back to whatdo you value and what do you
need to be happy.
And the truth is is you don'tlike if you ended up selling
your house and moving into atiny home, your kids would
probably adjust and theywouldn't.
Your wife may not love it but,like your kids would normalize
that they're with you and that'swhat they have and that's what
they know.
And they may get made fun of orthey may struggle with some
(15:39):
things, you know, if theysocially don't have the nice
clothes or they can't fit intothe community, whatever that is
for you.
But I think you can normalizeto the situation.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I think money buys happiness, but just very
temporarily.
I mean you buy the one thing orthe new thing and that brings
happiness.
So it's very fleeting.
It's very fleeting.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Let's talk about the other comment that was made,
because I think this is a bigthing that's eroded over the
last.
I think I used the term acouple podcasts ago 70 years,
and that is this feeling of andthis.
We're going to say this word,I'm just going to call it out
probably 200 times over thesenext couple of episodes.
But community, you know, Ithink when we were growing up,
and even more so before we wereborn I was born in the late 70s
(16:27):
it really did take a village,like we were at our friends'
houses all the time, and I thinkagain we'll make some
assumptions.
We could bring a parent or twoon to talk through this.
But I think back in that time,you know, houses were a little
smaller and maybe the parentsdidn't want to be in that close
of proximity to us at all timesand so they would send you down
(16:50):
the street and you'd play withthis particular person or down
the street.
And I think you hear storiesfrom when our parents were
younger like it was all the timeit was just doors wide open,
people in and out of houses, upand down, playing in the street
doing this, that and the otherthing, and you street doing this
dad and the other thing, andyou got exposed to this
(17:10):
community and everybody washelping raise everybody else.
And now you know, in somecircumstances and not everywhere
, and we're in a unique place.
Now you have, you know, a14,000 square foot house with
your basketball court indoor andyour full fitness facility and
everything you could ever needunder one roof, and you never
even have to leave your housewith DoorDash and Instacart or
whatever it is.
And, like I think you said,you're kind of cutting yourself
off from society as a whole andI don't necessarily know if
(17:33):
that's a positive thing,especially, again, like you
alluded to, we're so wired to besocial animals.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, I think you're 100% right.
I think you need to use yourresources for good, bring people
together and create memorableexperiences for your family and
for others.
I think God wants us to be goodstewards of the resources that
he's given all of us, whateveramount that is, and I do think
(18:09):
that's why there's clubs andteams and there was a lot more
of that.
You used to have neighborhoodassociations.
People would get together andthey would do things and it's
you know.
We've kind of replaced thatwith technology and I think
parents can just sit there and Imean we've all been in the doom
scroll before, right, and hoursgo by and you're like, oh okay,
you got to be real intentionalto create the time for you and
(18:30):
your family, but you have to beeven more intentional to create
time with other kids right Tobuild community.
Our mom made sure we hadplaydates.
I mean, I had playdates all thetime.
It was like Friday playdatesand putting in that work to
create that is super importantand I know some people are
awesome at it and they're reallygood at it.
We're subpar at best and I'msure it depends on every
(18:51):
situation, but I think that'sessential for development.
They talk about kids and whatkids need is more playtime, but
it needs to be unsupervisedplaytime.
They need to be in theschoolyard and they need to get
tripped and hit in the head andfigure out and go through and
really start to navigate some ofthese situations so they can't
run to mom and dad when thingsgo wrong.
(19:12):
So, regardless of amount ofmoney, choosing a lifestyle that
is inclusive of other people Ithink is super important.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, I think for me, the whole lifestyle thing it
goes back to expectations, and Ithink that's the hard part is
it's so easy to adjust yourexpectations to your standard of
living, and the same thing foryour kids, and I'm always trying
to be mindful of not to setmyself up to with expectations
(19:43):
that can't be fulfilled byreality.
I'm trying to think of exactlyhow I phrased this or how I read
this, but basically, happinessis reality minus expectations,
which is a really, reallyfascinating formula if you
really pause and digest that.
So happiness is reality minusexpectations.
So to me, expectations are justthat silent assassin at the end
(20:07):
of that formula that can justbe a grim reaper of happiness if
they're too high, and I thinkthat's probably most subject to
our kids, especially if they'retoo high, and I think that's
probably most subject to ourkids who are, you know,
especially if they're growing upin environments where the
standard of living that theyhappen to be, a part of that
they haven't had to work for yet, is on the higher end.
There's a lot of roomunderneath that, and so where
(20:29):
their expectations are going tobe in, relative to the work that
it's going to take to get there, it's a real dangerous place to
be.
And so for me it's just aconstant battle of trying to
manage expectations and tryingto keep those as low as possible
.
Because you said in those thirdworld countries and I've been
(20:52):
down, I've been for 12 years nowgoing down to the Dominican
Republic to partner with anorganization down there and
there is a lot of devastatingthings down there don't get me
wrong in terms of the standardof living and we're invested in
doing what we can to help thatcommunity and create a model for
other communities to replicateto get out of that.
(21:13):
I will also say I'veexperienced a lot of kids down
there who have absolutelynothing and are happy, not
because the reality is sosubstantial, but their
expectations are so low.
And so for me, that battle oftrying to navigate that is
something not only for my kids,but for me that it's a
(21:33):
day-to-day challenge.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
How do you think this is?
This has always been a question, something I've always wondered
.
Uh, there was a comment made.
So you know, I referenced adocumentary that we made on one
documentary we made on one ofour races and a particular
individual that was running therace.
He got interviewed and he wasmaking a comment about so in in
this particular race again, I'llrestateate it you run a loop
that's four miles long.
(21:56):
Well, part of this loop there'sa playground and on this
playground you see these kids,and the kids are there cheering
their parents on for themajority of the race, and his
comment was that these kids arebeing normalized.
Oh, mom just goes and runs 50miles, or dad goes out and runs
100 miles, and I play on theplayground for 24 hours and and
they're being alley-ooped wasthe word he used in life.
(22:18):
That's the baseline.
I've always been curious aboutthis.
There is a lot of commentary inthe political sphere,
especially being this isDecember, so right after
November, right after anelection cycle, just this is
December, so right afterNovember, right after an
election cycle, where there'scommentary about equal, equal
(22:41):
opportunity and, you know,making sure everybody I forget
the way it's phrased it's withequal, equal outcome for
equality versus outcome.
It's I don't know equalityversus.
Do you know what I'm trying?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
to.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I know what you're talking about going but anyways,
you know, we we talk aboutexposure and I I often wonder if
you are.
You just made a comment aboutthere being a lot below your
children in terms of if.
If they're starting at aparticular level, there's a long
way to fall.
(23:17):
But is setting theseexpectations via the lifestyle
you've curated does that alleyyou that particular person?
For instance I'll use a randomexample If your father is a Wall
Street banker and his life isall around money, or a guy who
works in that financial sectorand he makes $50 million a year,
and that's kind of the basis,and everybody that he's
(23:39):
surrounded by is kind of in thatsame world, is it just kind of
natural as a human to adopt thecharacteristics that got him
there, that you're surrounded by, and that becomes your starting
point, you know, do you believethat that's true?
I mean, you know.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
I think it can be.
I think we, whether you're borninto that or whether you achieve
it on some sort of level, uh,for a period of time, I think
you're, you absolutely can, yourexpectations can adjust to that
.
I've always, I've I don't knowif I heard this somewhere, I uh,
it just came to me, but I'vealways kind of leaned into a
phrase I would call post-stardomdepression, right, in that you
(24:23):
find at least and maybe this isjust media coverage of it but a
lot of child stars who are onthese monstrous stages, or even
musicians or others who you knoware in these places where you
have thousands, tens ofthousands, hundreds of thousands
of people I don't want to sayworshiping you, but looking up
(24:44):
to you and kind of following youand just interested in every
step and move you make.
I think it's you know when thatgoes, it's really hard to adjust
, and so I do think there's asense of now, I think, to some
parents credit.
I think some parents probablydo a really good job of doing
their best to bring awareness tothat right.
(25:06):
I think there is a way to dothat to bring awareness to the
uniqueness of the situation, tothe rarity of the situation, and
to help build that.
So I'm sure it's a little bitof both, but I think there's
some reality there.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I would add.
I think it's part of the climb.
I read something similar thatsaid people who go from zero to
a hundred really quickly.
So like YouTube, sensation goesfrom zero to 50 million
subscribers in a short period oftime.
The fall after that is muchmore dramatic the ones that had
to work for it over time and hada gradual build.
I think it's what the kid sees.
(25:41):
I think it's again.
It'll go back to what the parentvalues during that process.
If the wall street banker is,is he's valuing?
You know, going to expensivedinners and fancy things all the
time, and that's all the kidknows.
And then I think kids willeither run towards it or run
away from it.
Right, because you kind of seethem going one way or the other,
like I don't want to beanything like my dad because I
don't value any of the thingsthat he values and he puts all
(26:03):
this emphasis here.
Or there's an instance wherekids may not feel like they can
live up to their parents andthey just feel defeated.
I've seen a situation wherethat's come in.
It's like mom or dad orwhatever has been so successful.
I don't feel like I'm evergoing to be good enough, and
that can cause issues.
So I think it's something youhave to be very careful of.
I think it's okay to do fun andnice things.
(26:26):
The less you talk about thecost of it, probably the better
with your kids.
But there are certain things inyour life where, if you can
afford it and you go forsomething, it things in your
life where you know if you canafford it and you go for
something, it will have animpact and your kids will see
you know what you choose to do.
So you have to decide if it'sworth it or not.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I think that that, too, is a brings up an
interesting point of if you dohave resources, where do you use
it, where do you spend it?
And you know we've talked aboutathletic training for them.
You we've talked about aboutthere are schooling or certain
things that you can invest in.
There's obviously, things thatyou can buy in terms of the home
(27:03):
and things that you're livingin.
I don't know.
That's always an interestingdynamic for me.
I don't know that there's aright answer, necessarily, but
if you do have the resources, orshould you save it?
This gets to be philosophicalpretty quick.
But if there is a good place tospend the money, is it on some
people say experiences, or is iton the development of your kids
in some fashion?
(27:24):
Or or again, is it best to justsock it away or give it away?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
it's a interesting dynamic well, I think that you
know you make a good point.
I don't think there is a rightway.
You know if you can agree aspoint.
I don't think there is a rightway you know if you can agree as
a family and discuss it andfigure out as a family, the best
way for you to utilize whateverit is that you have available
to you, whether that be money orconnections.
I think where I, where Istruggle and I think this is
(27:48):
where this conversation couldget really interesting,
especially for you, because youhave the child where what you do
as a family and the way youchoose to live your life and
curate your lifestyle is heldagainst your child.
I think we've seen this.
Unfortunately for the threeguys sitting in front of you, we
(28:10):
are at the top of the not coolfood chain in terms of the
political sphere.
Right Successful white male isnot the place to be, and so
there's a lot of and I think weobviously have seen some
backlash and pushback againstthat, but there's a lot of
vitriol that's kind of thrownthis way, just based on what you
(28:36):
were born into, what color youare, where you live, whatever.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Just to clarify your point there in terms of it not
being the place to be, not thatit's horrible or hard to be a
white male, but to your point, Ithink, in terms of speaking out
politically or those sorts ofthings, there's a disinterest in
this perspective becausethere's an assumed bias that we
(28:59):
have had, a certain which I'mnot debating, maybe you know,
certainly valid that we have hadkind of a favorable, the deck
has been stacked for us in asense right, and so I think,
when it comes to assessing thatsort of thing and to go back to
your thing is equity versusequality, giving everyone the
(29:22):
same support or giving supportbased on need, and when there
starts to be discussions of that, yes, I think our voices can
get muted very quickly, andmaybe that's right and maybe not
, but yeah, I keep trying toclarify.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
No, that's really well articulated, but I want to
go back to my other point, Iguess, about that being held
against our kids by other people, maybe even adults in certain
circumstances, because of theway you choose to have.
You experienced that at allreally?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
That's a great question.
I try not to look into thatstuff.
That's a financial standpointand I try to do that at a level
(30:21):
that helps everybody that'sinvolved.
So I don't know if that answersyour question, but you'd have
to ask my oldest.
I know he gets it a little bitfor just the family he comes
from.
Sure, that's, it's legit.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I know this isn't.
I mean, I know this isn't aseasy as a conversation as the
last three have been.
So I mean, given the foundationthat we've kind of laid
throughout this episode already,are there any other you know
perspectives you guys have onthis particular topic as a whole
so we can continue down thatpath?
Speaker 3 (30:58):
It's an interesting one, you know.
I think I've hit on kind of thethings that perplex me and that
I continue to give thought to.
I think it's again justnavigating expectations and
standard of living and some ofthe impulsiveness TJ you talked
about.
What is tough about today'ssociety is everything is so
(31:20):
immediately available.
50 years ago when you had animpulse to buy something, there
were a lot more barriers to youactually getting there and
actually making that purchaseand by the time you got through
all those barriers you realizedyou didn't actually want it that
bad.
And in today's day and age, theimpulses and the availability
of that stuff, you can get itquickly and then all of a sudden
you're normalized into this newenvironment.
It's almost impossible thesedays and I say impossible, it's
(31:43):
not impossible, but it isbecoming increasingly difficult,
we'll say to manage yourstandard of living.
You know they say like it'sreally impossible to generate
wealth by increases in salary,because every time you get a
small increase in salary thereare so many infinite ways for
you to consume that additionalwith your standard of living and
not that it's like in anegative fashion.
(32:04):
You may be investing in yourkid's development or other.
You know very wholesome.
You know, things that have along-term payoff.
That may be great, but it's.
It's very tough to fight thoseimpulses that can be acted on so
quickly and avoid falling intothat trap of then your
expectations increasing andslowly continuing to increase
(32:25):
your standard of living.
Because we all came out ofcollege and I think we're making
very modest salaries right andvery, I think, in line with what
people would be making at thattime in their lives and we got
by just fine and, granted, we'resupporting more individuals.
But even when you adjust forthat, the standard of living
(32:47):
that we had at that point, wewere all perfectly fine and
equally happy.
Arguably, compared to some ofthe resources and opportunities
that have been afforded to ussince then, again, just the
standard of living has adjustedand kudos to the marketers out
there that find ways to get ourattention span and get us to
(33:08):
spend the money.
They're very good at it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, it is a very complex model.
What I love about what you guysare talking about is it does go
back to community and who youspend your time with, um, and I
think that does have a biginfluence on how you spend your
money, um, and the type oflifestyle you choose, cause it's
not just about money and things, experiences and, um, what you
(33:38):
want to create for your childrenand what you want you know.
But again, if you go back toresume versus eulogy, this is
another kind of point.
It's like your money in yourlife.
I mean, if you have anyChristian beliefs, it's to live
a more frugal life and it's togive more right, it's to focus
on helping others, and I thinkthere's a struggle for people
(34:01):
that, especially Christians ingeneral, that have done well.
I think there is a naturaltension there.
I think there's a tension thathow much should I give?
Or how much, you know, if Imake $50 million a year, is it
okay to have a private jet atthat point, like, at what point
do I get the private jet?
At what level do I get thesecond home?
(34:23):
And I think those are reallyhard to wrestle with.
I've never come to a pointwhere it's like okay, you know,
I've gotten here, and now thatchecks that box.
Now it's on to the next thing.
It's a if you're dialed inspiritually and you're focusing
on, you know what God has calledyou to do I think you're always
going to wrestle with am Ispending too much?
Am I giving too much away?
(34:44):
And I think that's a healthybattle.
I think it's something that youneed to constantly be thinking
about is like am I being a goodsteward, even the things that
I'm using for our own lifestyle?
Am I using those?
Well, are there ways that I cangive better, ways that I can
give better?
And that battle should continueon because if it goes unchecked
(35:08):
, it can get really dangerous.
And again, I think you become aslave to things and a slave to
a lifestyle that nobody wants tobe house poor and nobody wants
to be in a situation where I gotthe nice house, but now I've
got so much pressure on me Ican't even live.
Where would you?
Speaker 3 (35:25):
guys say and TJ, I'm interested in you expanding more
.
I know you've done a lot ofquestion asking, but I'll kind
of target this question and thenexpand on that when would you
guys say you've found thehighest ROI in where you've put
your money at different timesover the last decade or so?
Where do you find that from afulfillment perspective and
(35:47):
looking back, you know,distancing yourself from where
you did that that you find mostgratification, satisfaction
where you spent?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
It's funny you say that because I was just about to
pose the same question andagain, I had another
conversation with an individualthe other day that was thinking
about that from the perspectiveand it was a little what do you
call it?
He called it a little macabreor something to that effect.
But, like you know, if you wereon your deathbed and you had
(36:16):
and this kind of goes back tothe eulogy comment or you only
had a particular amount of timeto live, what would you strip
away?
Had a particular amount of timeto live, what would you strip
away?
You know and I think you cantake that and look
retrospectively on what you hadthe biggest ROI on.
And I would say that, you know,I think we started this a
couple of years ago and you mayhave been the first one to
mention it was this experiencething and I think that's become
(36:41):
more of a thing for us and Ithink it's because of the
abundance of things out there.
You know, when we were young, Ithink toys held more worth for
us because you didn't get toysvery often, you know, once or
twice or three times a yearbecause of the barriers in the
way, because you know we didn'tgrow up in an environment that
(37:03):
had an economic system where youknow you have things like Timu
and Shein and all these otherdifferent sites where you can
buy things for a dollar or twodollars or three dollars that
are fairly extra.
It's so.
It's it's just crazy.
You know that.
(37:28):
I think the experience thing hasbeen a really big ROI for us.
And spending, spending time andeffort on top of money, really
trying to uncover scenarioswhere you can spend a lot of
quality time.
I think that would be animportant thing.
That's relative to family, Ithink, from a personal
(37:48):
perspective doing we talkedabout this in episode one doing
epic things with friends andinvesting there.
I mean, I can't tell you howmany times we're around people.
It's probably on a fairlyregular basis and we revert to
one of the half dozen relaysthat we've done at different
places across the country.
And it's probably on a fairlyregular basis.
And we revert to one of thehalf dozen relays that we've
done at different places acrossthe country.
And it's not even necessarilythe performances we've put forth
(38:10):
, although they've been amazing,um, but it's the, the things
that have occurred during thatperiod in time, and some of
these things are not thatexpensive.
You know a lot of these wedrive to.
You know all in for a drivablerelay.
You're talking about three or$400 for a grown male adult,
(38:30):
which isn't 10,000 or $15,000.
So I think those things havebeen really impactful.
I've seen a lot of ROI thereand then I think I'm a little
hesitant to say this because Iwish it wasn't this way, but I'm
(38:54):
definitely glad that we'veinvested to a point in personal
development for the kids,whatever that is, whether that's
academic or from a sportsperspective.
I think those things have beenreally big for us.
I think there are some areas ofwork that I need to address.
(39:15):
My wife and I are going to take, hopefully, a vacation here in
the next couple of weeks.
That's something that's kind offallen by the wayside.
I remember a friend a couple ofyears ago who had kids that
were considerably older thanours saying that they felt like
ships passing in the night, likethey never talked because it
was just school, work, sports,dinner, bed, um.
(39:35):
So you know, making sure thatwe're also I'm also investing in
that part of my life, becausekids won't be here forever and
you have a relationship that hasto exist after the fact.
So those are some of the areasthat I have invested in that I
feel like I've gotten good ROIon.
There are other things that area little more materialistic.
You know that I would say liketurns out, there is a kind of
(40:01):
you get what you pay for.
Turns out, there is a kind ofyou get what you pay for.
So I always kind of get excitedwhen I find something and I
think you guys may feel the same.
That really does like shiftvalue.
From an experience perspective,I think that can be exciting at
times, because now it is likefinding a needle in the haystack
oh, I wanted to get a new baselayer to run in this weather and
there's 500 companies out therethat are sending me Instagram
(40:24):
feed or Instagram ads on thisbase layer that and you find one
like the Tracksmith base layerand it's the best thing ever and
you're so excited to telleverybody about it because you
had to sift through this pile ofhay to find this needle, um,
and so I get excited about thosethings too.
But, uh, yeah, I mean I wouldsay those are some of the areas
(40:45):
where I've seen the most return.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I'll jump on.
Experiences have definitelybeen one, and not just for my
family, but for other people aswell.
So I've been in a couple ofsituations and we've been able
to do some really fun things.
And it's funny, it's likeexperiences with the family or
with friends.
You spend a couple of daysgoing to war, whether it's a run
or something else.
(41:08):
Like those are the memorieswhen you think about return on
investment.
But as you were talking, tj, Ithought about what are the
things that I remember like thathave been like you know, me and
you going down and doing Disneyand taking a couple of our kids
and we, we did the dopey andran, you know, 5k, 10k, half
marathon, full marathon, fourdays back to back 3am and
crushed the parks and like wewere just destroyed.
(41:31):
But at the end of it it waslike a memorable experience.
And we got to go watch thePacers play the Lakers at the.
We went to Vegas with a coupleof the kids, and so there's just
been a lot of things that ourkids and we've got to do, but
it's really, it's about thejourney, it's about the, it's
not just about oh, we went tothe Lakers game and went to
Disney.
It was like it was about theplane ride, it was about talking
(41:54):
, it was about laughing at night, it was about setting all the
things up and so just a.
Really those are the thingsthat I remember.
And then you know, from thevein side, like you know, we
built a lake house and one ofthe things about that is that
has been a dream of my wife's.
We live there in the summersand we spend it.
(42:14):
It's an incredible family timefor us and we've used that as
well as a way to bring otherpeople together, to use this as
a space that we can cometogether.
We can create memories.
It was really important to mewhen we were doing Christmas,
right, and before mom passed andour Christmases got.
(42:36):
So we kept moving days aroundand it used to be like a couple
hours on the 25th and then weall had kids and then we moved
it to the 24th and then it waslike you guys would get there at
10 AM and you'd have to leaveby four and it was just.
It felt so rushed and it waslike man last year, having a
place where we could come andstay and spend two days together
(42:57):
, right, so for me that's thememory the kids all come
together, we get to spend twodays together, enjoying each
other, not rushing from place toplace to place, and so
sometimes that puts you in aposition where you can do some
things on a broader scale, whereyou can create these memorable
environments where people canhave some experiences, like
(43:19):
going on a boat or tubing orthings or jet skis that they
never would be able to do.
So that has been a big thingfor us.
It was a big investment for us,but I'm continuing trying to
find ways to work with otherorganizations about holding
retreats here from a spiritualstandpoint, as well as utilizing
it for the broader family.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I'm glad you brought that up because I think that's
important.
I think that potentially givesa lot of credence to other
people who invest their money in, in homes that are similar to
something like your lake house,you know, because they love
entertaining people and theylove providing experiences.
I mean, I know this andunfortunately you've set me up
for failure.
But you know you were, you knowyou worked out, kind enough to
(44:05):
have my kids out skiing a coupleof times.
Now it's their favorite thing inthe world to do, and dad may
never be able to take them again.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Come on, we're going in March, but like they're.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
So it was such a memorable experience for them
and, you know, I think it goesto show that you know, if you're
, if you're lucky enough to havethose kinds of experiences, it,
you know it's, there was reallynot a ton of investment on my
part and you can create thoseexperiences.
Um, on the other side of thecoin again, not your side, my
(44:36):
side of the coin you know, itcould be as simple as, like you
said, going downstairs andplaying Madden.
You said that, like theselittle things going in and
having, you know, driving astate away.
Um, you know, one of the thingsI think my daughter will always
remember is we'll go down forum to get sports related right,
but like driving down fornational cross-country
(44:57):
championships.
It's in kentucky, it's a threehour drive, but she's so excited
to go and stay the night in ahotel and, you know, go run and
get a sweatshirt from the eventafterwards to kind of
commemorate that and you guyswent to Oregon too, didn't you?
I mean, I did, I took her toOregon, to the Prefontaine
Classic last year and she got tomeet all of these track
athletes and those kinds ofthings.
(45:18):
You know, luckily, with my jobI travel a ton.
So, again, not a hugeinvestment for me because
airfare is covered and thingslike that, um, with mileage and
whatnot, but but yeah, I mean itdoesn't have to be extravagant.
Those are the things that, thekind of the diamonds in the
rough.
I think the more time you spendcurating the experience and
really putting it together, themore valuable it it is at the
(45:39):
end of the day.
So you know, I think I think ittakes it's like spending time
on a present for a holiday.
You know, for my 40th you guysdidn't buy me anything.
You set up a relay race and youyou knew that's what I liked and
(46:02):
that's my personality and tothis day it's probably the most
Epic relay race we've ever done,just based on the circumstances
and the fact that we won a 200mile relay by like 35 seconds
with a bunch of guys from Marion.
So you know, I think those arethe types of experiences that
you put.
You put time and effort into asopposed to going to something.
(46:26):
They can still be fun, right.
But investing in like acommercialized experience like
Disney can be cool, but it'sstill Disney and it's still
overly commercialized.
And but again, I think if youput enough into it, like
intricately planning to makesure that you get to do what you
want to do when you want to doit, and it gets, it gets better.
So I guess it's it's almost a.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
What I, what I hear you saying, is like
intentionality.
Right, it's like theintentionality behind what
you're doing and I can say from,regardless of which side you
sit on, like the person that'screating the memory or providing
the memory, versus the one kindof being you know asked to be a
part of it.
It's like the fruits on bothsides, like when we were out
skiing with your kids and likeme and you could like.
(47:10):
It just reminded me back in theday when me and you were
shredding and we could get outthere and get after it.
And probably the first and lasttime I'll be able to destroy
you.
From his quads, I think.
I think he was injured, but tjis in incredible shape and um,
I'll never forget the day wewent out on my 40th and we had
fresh powder on uh back on theback, bull and uh first run in
(47:32):
veil.
We had first first run.
It was the most unbelievablething.
We I don't know how many timeswe did it, but like those things
when you think about life andwe're sitting here reflecting,
they're starting to come back tolife.
Like those are the memoriesyour kids learning to ski, like
being able to teach people howto surf at the lake Like those
are the things that people aregoing to remember.
(47:52):
And that is eulogy stuff,because you're being intentional
with your time, you're takingthem out, you're having patience
, you're learning, you'reshowing them something new, and
sometimes it's expensive andsometimes it's not, but again,
it's the intentionality behindit that makes it special,
regardless of what the event is.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, you mentioned eulogy and that's probably how I
would characterize it.
I find the highest ROI thingsfor me, as I look back, would be
eulogy, builder type stuff.
Some of it too, I would say, isyou know, they say you can't
pour from an empty cup.
If I look back at the last 12months and the best place I've
probably invested was on a twoday silent retreat it spent $185
(48:32):
and it was for two nights andincluded all food up the St
Joseph retreat center in Tiptonand for me to reorient myself
spiritually and to come out ofthat fresh with so much clarity,
I just I don't think I couldput a price tag on that because
that that pays.
I mean, if I, if I'm changingkind of who I am and how I'm
(48:55):
showing up, you know that paysdividends in every interaction
that I have.
And so if I were to say I wouldsay that would be probably at
or near the top of the list isinvestment to keep myself in a
good place so I can pour fromthat cup.
But beyond that, I think eulogybuilders is, you know, the
things that I would look back onwith the most amount of
(49:16):
gratitude.
And it's hard right, because youguys were talking about this
earlier on, but there's a versein scripture about the lady with
the two coins right and theneveryone else giving of excess,
who were given a hundred timeswhat she was giving, but she was
giving out of actual money thatlike, like you know, cut into
her ability to live acomfortable life, and so I think
(49:36):
that that's always thechallenge in terms of the eulogy
builders too Are you buildingyour eulogy with excess or are
you cutting into actual eulogybuilders, too?
Are you building your eulogywith excess or are you cutting
into actual?
Um you cutting into, you know,actual, you know funds that that
you may have allotted elsewherefor your standard of living?
Um, that's tough I think it's.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
I think it's kind of unfortunate.
You know, with the marketing wetalk a lot about, you brought up
holidays at the lake house andthe kids, and I think it's
unfortunate that we're we'remade to believe that the eulogy
building stuff, that the epicthings are these astronomically
expensive experiences.
One of the things I think wouldbe a great topic of
(50:14):
conversation and I know this hasbeen an interesting way for
this to unfold in terms oflifestyle, but I think all of
these are elements of it is this, this Taylor Swift phenomenon
and just live events in generalphenomenon over the last year
and a half.
We're made to believe that someof these things are the things
(50:39):
that are gonna define our lives,whereas the things that are
going to define our lives where,where is curating the right set
of games to play during aholiday event, you know um can
be way more impactful.
I think of the things we did askids when we would go up to our
grandmother's house, things assimple as recreating the uh
(51:04):
manger scene and going throughthat whole deal Like that that
was.
We'll never forget that and someof the other stuff that we've
done with our cousins over theyears.
But now it's unfortunately.
You know we're made to believethat you have to spend any more
with families of our sizes.
It's five figures minimum to goto, to fly somewhere and get a
(51:25):
hotel and stay for a week andand I think that's unfortunate
because that's not alwaysnecessarily the the pinnacle.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
And I think the kids would agree with that.
I mean when I look back at someof the times, I'm very surprised
.
When I ask the kids aboutcertain memories or they bring
up things that come to mindRarely is it the large, huge,
pinnacle-type peak experiences,the ones where you have to say
do you know how much money wespent on this vacation?
(51:55):
They'll remember just some ofthe normal things.
Noah will say one of hisfavorite things is getting these
quotes every day at the startof the day to start his day um,
and it takes no money at all,and so I I think your point is
really good, that, um, you canincrease and multiply the roi
(52:17):
with thought and intentionality,and so it's not necessarily
what you're investing in, butit's also the thought you're
putting behind it, I think,which is a very really good
point, which is something I'mI'm terrible at some of the
details.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Was you brought that up?
I just sitting here thinkingI'm like one of the things we
need to do is to sit down andplan the two days that you guys
are here.
What are the?
What are the 10 games we'regoing to play with the 10 kids?
Make it a memorable.
So it's one thing to have themhere, but then the second part
of that is let's put some effortinto planning it to make it fun
, to make the gamification of itall to where they're not just
(52:56):
here running around, which isfun too.
Speaker 3 (52:58):
They terrorize each other, Not running around just
on screens yeah on screens.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Or around just on screens yeah On screens, or
they're doing whatever, uh, butI think there, there, there's,
there's a lot to be said from anintentionality standpoint.
Um, there's a lot of things youcan do from a lifestyle
standpoint that aren't thatisn't around money, Um, but I
don't think money is a bad thingeither.
If it's used in the right way,you can create some special
memories.
(53:23):
Sure, I think it's a greatcomment to wrap it up on.
Okay, so thank you all forjoining in.
This was episode four and wegot a little deep here with some
personal stuff, but hopefullythis continues to resonate with
you guys and we look forward toseeing you on the next episode.
Thanks for coming by.
Welcome to the Daily Edge where we bring you the
latest insights, opinions andthought-provoking conversations
to give you that competitiveedge in life, business and four
of the Daily Edge.
Welcome everyone, glad youcould join us today.
Tj's kind of got a surprisetopic for us about lifestyle and
(00:31):
curating a lifestyle, so I'lllet you take it away.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Sweet.
So this kind of came up andmost of my stories start with I
was on a run with a guy or agirl.
This was on a run with aparticular individual and we
were talking a little bit aboutlifestyle I think this was born
out of.
Even within marriages, theretends to be sometimes a
dichotomy between husband andwife.
(00:54):
In my marriages it's like thatwhere if I wasn't married with
kids, I would probably live in atiny house in the woods because
I just don't care, it doesn'treally matter to me.
However, I do see the benefitsof the lifestyle that I've
curated.
I do enjoy again same themehappiness, but this individual.
(01:14):
I was taught happiness, seeinghappiness throughout my family.
But this individual I wastalking to is in the space, in
the life coach space.
We've kind of talked about thisand he has made some conscious
decisions.
He does well for himself, Iwould say by almost any measure,
but has decided that for him itis important to minimize the
(01:37):
amount of overall work, maximizetime with family and do a lot
of spending a lot of time innature.
Therefore, the house is alittle smaller, owns a
reasonably sized RV, does a lotof traveling, has curated his
work life so that his weeks arepretty much done by Wednesday
(01:59):
and he can kind of do what hewants, and they found happiness
as a family through that.
I thought it would beinteresting to kind of explore.
We all have differentlifestyles and I think at a lot
of times that people find otherpeople unapproachable because of
the way they perceive theirlifestyle from the outside.
Looking in In the area that welive, todd and I, in specific,
(02:23):
there are a number of what Iwill say, those neighborhoods
where you see 10, 12, 15,000square foot houses and you're
wondering why, why would you dothat?
That seems so grandiose andunusual and whatever People
judge based on those factors.
So I thought it would be veryinteresting to kind of explore
(02:44):
that.
And I think it does one thing ithumanizes people that choose
this lifestyle for a particularreason, whatever that may be,
and then we can look at you know, I know that you have expressed
like even starting a businessaround tiny houses, so like kind
of looking at both sides ofthat, and then we can talk a
(03:07):
little bit more about again, youknow, the way that people are
perceived, even the way that wefeel we are perceived because of
how we put ourselves forward,whether that be intentional or
not.
So, that said, I'd love to kickthis off with, I guess, kind of
a question.
I'll just kick it to you, trent.
(03:29):
You know your family has somethings that you guys enjoy doing
and you're in a community whereyou may be painted into a
particular corner because of theway people perceive the way you
live.
So I'd like to just get yourperspective on that.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah, that's real interesting.
I was listening to a podcastI'm going to do the Donald Trump
weave here for a second and itwas about the psychology of
money and it was Huberman andthey just talked a lot about
what drives different lifestylesand how people value money and
there's several different things.
(04:08):
But one of the things theypointed out is like people
really don't fall in love withmoney.
They generally fall in lovewith things, but one of the
things he said is part of it iscompetitiveness.
Right, like I think you get inthose in certain neighborhoods
or certain things where how muchmoney do you need to be happy?
Well, I need just a little bitmore than my neighbor, and I
(04:30):
think that's a trap that a lotof people fall fall into is they
want to be doing just a littlebit better than than the next
person.
But really, I think lifestyleand the way that he approached
money was it's about.
Money creates freedom.
It creates independence in yourlife and if you can make a
certain amount of money andthat'll allow you to have the
(04:51):
freedom, as you talked with theguy that you ran with, he has
the freedom to go and do as hepleases because he has made
enough money.
Well, you can make a lot ofmoney and still be a slave to
money, depending on yourlifestyle.
So the question that's reallyintriguing to me on this whole
topic is is, like, whatinfluences you to have that
lifestyle?
Like what is that?
You know that, that we're likewhat things around you or what
(05:15):
internal you know I'm not goingto call them demons, because
they could be good things butwhat are those internal things
inside of us that make us choosea lifestyle?
It could be our internal choice.
It could be a family member ora spouse or kids that we're
trying to live up to, but Ithink a lot of lifestyle has to
do with like an interpersonalstruggle to some extent.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I'd love, yeah, I, just I want to.
This is going to be a veryinteresting topic.
I'd love to explore that alittle more and just I don't
know, let's get some of yourthoughts on just this whole,
just this whole situation.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Uh, it's extremely, uh, fascinating one.
I you know we talk about kindof how the human uh, the, the
evolution of the human body andsome of the things that we're
wired for and not wired for.
I think one of the interestingthings about the human body
there's kind of in my humanpsyche, probably more so there's
(06:13):
a couple of competing thingshere.
One is the desire to belong andto fit in and to have status.
I think a lot of times thoseget a bad connotation but those
are deeply wired into us becausewe're very communal people and
that's how we survived andbasically survived is probably
(06:36):
the word right and so we'redeeply wired there.
And then there's this part ofus that also has this unique
ability to normalize to oursituations.
We talked about this in anotherepisode about kids and how they
do that.
But humans can do this reallywell as well, right, like you
were in the back of your car forsix weeks and probably about
(06:56):
three or four weeks into it,that got to be a norm.
Not that you wanted to do thatindefinitely, right, but like
you know, you normalized to that, and I think that's what's
really interesting.
Is we?
I think those two things are.
It's a, it's a psychologicalbattle, almost a philosophical
battle, of knowing that you'llnormalize to a lower standard of
(07:17):
living if you allow it, but atthe same time you're fighting to
belong and to fit in and tohave a status within a society
that is you know.
I think we have to againacknowledge that that's just an
evolutionary reality that'sbaked deeply into us.
So for me, I kind of just findthat back and forth fascinating.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
So there's two paths I want to go down First of all,
and I'll look up the author ofthe book.
But there's a book I readrecently called the Status Game,
and it was really about pursuitof status within any type of
community.
And I wonder if and I love bothof your thoughts on this I
wonder if you found status in aparticular community, if it
(07:56):
maybe pushes you in a directionthat you don't necessarily need
to seek it out in others.
So this particular individualthat I'm referencing has a very
supportive, tight-knit fitnessand strength community.
He's kind of the central figurethere, kind of the king of it,
(08:17):
if you will.
He has status in that community.
So maybe and again I'm justmaking assumptions here or kind
of shooting in the dark butmaybe because of that he doesn't
feel the need to seek statusthrough materials, which I think
, like you said, has become thislowest common denominator
(08:39):
because everything's so readilyavailable with Amazon and with
just, I guess, property ingeneral.
So I'd first love your thoughtson that and then I kind of have
a follow-up on that.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, I think we all try to find our identity in
something right.
We do want to belong.
I think you can find youridentity in work.
You can try to find it inthings.
I think there can be acompetitiveness to that whole
process.
You know, I don't know if I'dsay that directly in the Bible,
(09:16):
but it's not money itself, it'sthe love of money, it's what you
actually focus on and what youvalue.
And really what I found is I'vebeen fortunate enough to kind
of experience the other side ofthat and it's just not all it's
cracked up to be.
And I don't think everyone getsto go through that experience,
(09:38):
and if they do, it's atdifferent ages.
But it's a never-ending gameand the key is to find happiness
and joy with where you're atand do it in a way that keeps
you from being a slave to money,right?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, a couple of things.
This is just a separate, wholephilosophical thing I've always
been curious about is who lovesmoney more, the saver or the
spender?
Right, I just always thoughtthat was interesting, that I
think a lot of times the saversget up in their Eiffel Tower and
kind of like to fire bullets atthe spenders of love and money.
But it's an interesting thingif you could argue so.
(10:15):
Anyways, that's a wholeseparate conversation.
What I was going to say is Ithink what's interesting about
this and when I've tried tocontrol this a little bit is the
community.
We've talked about community.
Who are the five people or thecommunity that you're
surrounding yourself with?
Because they value differentthings and to your point that
you gain status different waysin those communities.
I can tell you, in my spiritualcommunity, my Christian
community, it's just theopposite.
(10:35):
We had a guy just trade in aTesla for a 2007 Lexus RX,
because it's almost like a raceto the bottom right Of like how
can you live a more frugal lifeand give more um or uh?
You know, the things that aregaining you status and that sort
of community are more virtuousthings, like habits that you're
(10:58):
taking.
Are you showing up for track.
Tuesday at five 15 in themorning.
Are you getting to adoration?
Are you doing these things,that and so what I've found, and
I've tried to do to modify myown behavior, is really find a
community that values the thingsor that promotes status based
(11:21):
on very virtuous behaviors thathave a lot of depth to them.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
On the flip side of that is, I think, how you choose
to live, and lifestyle alsoseparates you, right?
It's like if you live on sixacres and you're not in a
neighborhood, you miss out onthe neighborhood thing.
So I found that money reallyends up separating you, at the
end of the day, from more of acommunity.
(11:48):
If you let it right, if you, ifyou choose to take those paths
or buy the bigger house or moveto the different neighborhoods,
you're going to be in a placethat, um, it's going to probably
divide you and keep you moreisolated than it's going to
bring you into a community Insome instances.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I wanted to unpack the saver and spender philosophy
.
The comment that you made.
That was one of the things Iwanted to explore, because you
hear a lot of cynicism out therein regard to people making
comments about if they've donewell, whatever that may be.
It may be making a hundredgrand a year, maybe making a
hundred million a year, and theperson receiving the message
(12:24):
maybe they haven't made it Intheir mind, you know, maybe
they're only making 100 a yearand 500 is that mark, and the
person that has done well sayswell, you know, I've been on
both sides and having the moneyisn't all it's cracked up to be
and money doesn't buy youhappiness.
And you hear a lot morecommentary.
Now.
You know, I think that people,when the media outlets were much
(12:48):
less available and I think justsociety as a whole, people were
more controlled in theirverbalization of things, so they
weren't, as I wouldn't even say, uncouth, but they, they, they
just weren't as aggressive withtheir commentary.
You know people would makecomments like that and people
(13:11):
there would be whispers.
Now people are coming out andkind of attacking that their
cynicism.
Oh well, of course you'resaying money doesn't buy
happiness and it's easierbecause you have it.
You know.
Um, I would love to expand and Ithink maybe we all can to a
point because we all are verywell aware that there is a level
of success and in differenttiers of it, but we're nowhere
(13:31):
near what the top looks like.
Elon Musk's net worth just hit$400 billion, like that's bigger
than Costco.
So you know, I would love toexpound and talk a little bit
about why you feel confidentmaking that comment that it
isn't necessarily all it'scracked up to be if you don't
have the right underpinnings isextremely happy where he's at in
(14:09):
his journey and does not have aprofession that you know pays
significantly well.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Um and so, and I mean I've done, I've been on a few
trips.
I was able to go to theDominican Republic for, um, a
missions trip and you, you see,and you hear time and time again
people are happy that have, youknow, literally nothing in
comparison.
And I think it goes back tothat normalization of when you
(14:35):
get exposed to, and I think whatyou get exposed to growing up,
like we had a father that youknow it was always the best, it
was the.
You got to get the best, thebest seats, the best, the best
steak, and it was like kind ofingrained us, like if I'm going
to buy something, the moreexpensive it is, the better it
is.
That was kind of ingrained, atleast into me, and so maybe it
is a point in time and maybe itis tongue in cheek to actually
(14:57):
even say it.
It's like, well, it's easy nowthat you've got there, it, it,
it's really hard to explain.
I know several people thathaven't gone down that path and
that are really, really happy.
So if money was really the truehappiness, if it really made
you happy.
I think there would be proof inthat right, and there are.
People wouldn't be able to behappy with lower amounts of
(15:18):
money.
But again, it goes back to whatdo you value and what do you
need to be happy.
And the truth is is you don'tlike if you ended up selling
your house and moving into atiny home, your kids would
probably adjust and theywouldn't.
Your wife may not love it but,like your kids would normalize
that they're with you and that'swhat they have and that's what
they know.
And they may get made fun of orthey may struggle with some
(15:39):
things, you know, if theysocially don't have the nice
clothes or they can't fit intothe community, whatever that is
for you.
But I think you can normalizeto the situation.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I think money buys happiness, but just very
temporarily.
I mean you buy the one thing orthe new thing and that brings
happiness.
So it's very fleeting.
It's very fleeting.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Let's talk about the other comment that was made,
because I think this is a bigthing that's eroded over the
last.
I think I used the term acouple podcasts ago 70 years,
and that is this feeling of andthis.
We're going to say this word,I'm just going to call it out
probably 200 times over thesenext couple of episodes.
But community, you know, Ithink when we were growing up,
and even more so before we wereborn I was born in the late 70s
(16:27):
it really did take a village,like we were at our friends'
houses all the time, and I thinkagain we'll make some
assumptions.
We could bring a parent or twoon to talk through this.
But I think back in that time,you know, houses were a little
smaller and maybe the parentsdidn't want to be in that close
of proximity to us at all timesand so they would send you down
(16:50):
the street and you'd play withthis particular person or down
the street.
And I think you hear storiesfrom when our parents were
younger like it was all the timeit was just doors wide open,
people in and out of houses, upand down, playing in the street
doing this, that and the otherthing, and you street doing this
dad and the other thing, andyou got exposed to this
(17:10):
community and everybody washelping raise everybody else.
And now you know, in somecircumstances and not everywhere
, and we're in a unique place.
Now you have, you know, a14,000 square foot house with
your basketball court indoor andyour full fitness facility and
everything you could ever needunder one roof, and you never
even have to leave your housewith DoorDash and Instacart or
whatever it is.
And, like I think you said,you're kind of cutting yourself
off from society as a whole andI don't necessarily know if
(17:33):
that's a positive thing,especially, again, like you
alluded to, we're so wired to besocial animals.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, I think you're 100% right.
I think you need to use yourresources for good, bring people
together and create memorableexperiences for your family and
for others.
I think God wants us to be goodstewards of the resources that
he's given all of us, whateveramount that is, and I do think
(18:09):
that's why there's clubs andteams and there was a lot more
of that.
You used to have neighborhoodassociations.
People would get together andthey would do things and it's
you know.
We've kind of replaced thatwith technology and I think
parents can just sit there and Imean we've all been in the doom
scroll before, right, and hoursgo by and you're like, oh okay,
you got to be real intentionalto create the time for you and
(18:30):
your family, but you have to beeven more intentional to create
time with other kids right Tobuild community.
Our mom made sure we hadplaydates.
I mean, I had playdates all thetime.
It was like Friday playdatesand putting in that work to
create that is super importantand I know some people are
awesome at it and they're reallygood at it.
We're subpar at best and I'msure it depends on every
(18:51):
situation, but I think that'sessential for development.
They talk about kids and whatkids need is more playtime, but
it needs to be unsupervisedplaytime.
They need to be in theschoolyard and they need to get
tripped and hit in the head andfigure out and go through and
really start to navigate some ofthese situations so they can't
run to mom and dad when thingsgo wrong.
(19:12):
So, regardless of amount ofmoney, choosing a lifestyle that
is inclusive of other people Ithink is super important.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, I think for me, the whole lifestyle thing it
goes back to expectations, and Ithink that's the hard part is
it's so easy to adjust yourexpectations to your standard of
living, and the same thing foryour kids, and I'm always trying
to be mindful of not to setmyself up to with expectations
(19:43):
that can't be fulfilled byreality.
I'm trying to think of exactlyhow I phrased this or how I read
this, but basically, happinessis reality minus expectations,
which is a really, reallyfascinating formula if you
really pause and digest that.
So happiness is reality minusexpectations.
So to me, expectations are justthat silent assassin at the end
(20:07):
of that formula that can justbe a grim reaper of happiness if
they're too high, and I thinkthat's probably most subject to
our kids, especially if they'retoo high, and I think that's
probably most subject to ourkids who are, you know,
especially if they're growing upin environments where the
standard of living that theyhappen to be, a part of that
they haven't had to work for yet, is on the higher end.
There's a lot of roomunderneath that, and so where
(20:29):
their expectations are going tobe in, relative to the work that
it's going to take to get there, it's a real dangerous place to
be.
And so for me it's just aconstant battle of trying to
manage expectations and tryingto keep those as low as possible
.
Because you said in those thirdworld countries and I've been
(20:52):
down, I've been for 12 years nowgoing down to the Dominican
Republic to partner with anorganization down there and
there is a lot of devastatingthings down there don't get me
wrong in terms of the standardof living and we're invested in
doing what we can to help thatcommunity and create a model for
other communities to replicateto get out of that.
(21:13):
I will also say I'veexperienced a lot of kids down
there who have absolutelynothing and are happy, not
because the reality is sosubstantial, but their
expectations are so low.
And so for me, that battle oftrying to navigate that is
something not only for my kids,but for me that it's a
(21:33):
day-to-day challenge.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
How do you think this is?
This has always been a question, something I've always wondered
.
Uh, there was a comment made.
So you know, I referenced adocumentary that we made on one
documentary we made on one ofour races and a particular
individual that was running therace.
He got interviewed and he wasmaking a comment about so in in
this particular race again, I'llrestateate it you run a loop
that's four miles long.
(21:56):
Well, part of this loop there'sa playground and on this
playground you see these kids,and the kids are there cheering
their parents on for themajority of the race, and his
comment was that these kids arebeing normalized.
Oh, mom just goes and runs 50miles, or dad goes out and runs
100 miles, and I play on theplayground for 24 hours and and
they're being alley-ooped wasthe word he used in life.
(22:18):
That's the baseline.
I've always been curious aboutthis.
There is a lot of commentary inthe political sphere,
especially being this isDecember, so right after
November, right after anelection cycle, just this is
December, so right afterNovember, right after an
election cycle, where there'scommentary about equal, equal
(22:41):
opportunity and, you know,making sure everybody I forget
the way it's phrased it's withequal, equal outcome for
equality versus outcome.
It's I don't know equalityversus.
Do you know what I'm trying?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
to.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
I know what you're talking about going but anyways,
you know, we we talk aboutexposure and I I often wonder if
you are.
You just made a comment aboutthere being a lot below your
children in terms of if.
If they're starting at aparticular level, there's a long
way to fall.
(23:17):
But is setting theseexpectations via the lifestyle
you've curated does that alleyyou that particular person?
For instance I'll use a randomexample If your father is a Wall
Street banker and his life isall around money, or a guy who
works in that financial sectorand he makes $50 million a year,
and that's kind of the basis,and everybody that he's
(23:39):
surrounded by is kind of in thatsame world, is it just kind of
natural as a human to adopt thecharacteristics that got him
there, that you're surrounded by, and that becomes your starting
point, you know, do you believethat that's true?
I mean, you know.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
I think it can be.
I think we, whether you're borninto that or whether you achieve
it on some sort of level, uh,for a period of time, I think
you're, you absolutely can, yourexpectations can adjust to that
.
I've always, I've I don't knowif I heard this somewhere, I uh,
it just came to me, but I'vealways kind of leaned into a
phrase I would call post-stardomdepression, right, in that you
(24:23):
find at least and maybe this isjust media coverage of it but a
lot of child stars who are onthese monstrous stages, or even
musicians or others who you knoware in these places where you
have thousands, tens ofthousands, hundreds of thousands
of people I don't want to sayworshiping you, but looking up
(24:44):
to you and kind of following youand just interested in every
step and move you make.
I think it's you know when thatgoes, it's really hard to adjust
, and so I do think there's asense of now, I think, to some
parents credit.
I think some parents probablydo a really good job of doing
their best to bring awareness tothat right.
(25:06):
I think there is a way to dothat to bring awareness to the
uniqueness of the situation, tothe rarity of the situation, and
to help build that.
So I'm sure it's a little bitof both, but I think there's
some reality there.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I would add.
I think it's part of the climb.
I read something similar thatsaid people who go from zero to
a hundred really quickly.
So like YouTube, sensation goesfrom zero to 50 million
subscribers in a short period oftime.
The fall after that is muchmore dramatic the ones that had
to work for it over time and hada gradual build.
I think it's what the kid sees.
(25:41):
I think it's again.
It'll go back to what the parentvalues during that process.
If the wall street banker is,is he's valuing?
You know, going to expensivedinners and fancy things all the
time, and that's all the kidknows.
And then I think kids willeither run towards it or run
away from it.
Right, because you kind of seethem going one way or the other,
like I don't want to beanything like my dad because I
don't value any of the thingsthat he values and he puts all
(26:03):
this emphasis here.
Or there's an instance wherekids may not feel like they can
live up to their parents andthey just feel defeated.
I've seen a situation wherethat's come in.
It's like mom or dad orwhatever has been so successful.
I don't feel like I'm evergoing to be good enough, and
that can cause issues.
So I think it's something youhave to be very careful of.
I think it's okay to do fun andnice things.
(26:26):
The less you talk about thecost of it, probably the better
with your kids.
But there are certain things inyour life where, if you can
afford it and you go forsomething, it things in your
life where you know if you canafford it and you go for
something, it will have animpact and your kids will see
you know what you choose to do.
So you have to decide if it'sworth it or not.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
I think that that, too, is a brings up an
interesting point of if you dohave resources, where do you use
it, where do you spend it?
And you know we've talked aboutathletic training for them.
You we've talked about aboutthere are schooling or certain
things that you can invest in.
There's obviously, things thatyou can buy in terms of the home
(27:03):
and things that you're livingin.
I don't know.
That's always an interestingdynamic for me.
I don't know that there's aright answer, necessarily, but
if you do have the resources, orshould you save it?
This gets to be philosophicalpretty quick.
But if there is a good place tospend the money, is it on some
people say experiences, or is iton the development of your kids
in some fashion?
(27:24):
Or or again, is it best to justsock it away or give it away?
Speaker 2 (27:27):
it's a interesting dynamic well, I think that you
know you make a good point.
I don't think there is a rightway.
You know if you can agree aspoint.
I don't think there is a rightway you know if you can agree as
a family and discuss it andfigure out as a family, the best
way for you to utilize whateverit is that you have available
to you, whether that be money orconnections.
I think where I, where Istruggle and I think this is
(27:48):
where this conversation couldget really interesting,
especially for you, because youhave the child where what you do
as a family and the way youchoose to live your life and
curate your lifestyle is heldagainst your child.
I think we've seen this.
Unfortunately for the threeguys sitting in front of you, we
(28:10):
are at the top of the not coolfood chain in terms of the
political sphere.
Right Successful white male isnot the place to be, and so
there's a lot of and I think weobviously have seen some
backlash and pushback againstthat, but there's a lot of
vitriol that's kind of thrownthis way, just based on what you
(28:36):
were born into, what color youare, where you live, whatever.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Just to clarify your point there in terms of it not
being the place to be, not thatit's horrible or hard to be a
white male, but to your point, Ithink, in terms of speaking out
politically or those sorts ofthings, there's a disinterest in
this perspective becausethere's an assumed bias that we
(28:59):
have had, a certain which I'mnot debating, maybe you know,
certainly valid that we have hadkind of a favorable, the deck
has been stacked for us in asense right, and so I think,
when it comes to assessing thatsort of thing and to go back to
your thing is equity versusequality, giving everyone the
(29:22):
same support or giving supportbased on need, and when there
starts to be discussions of that, yes, I think our voices can
get muted very quickly, andmaybe that's right and maybe not
, but yeah, I keep trying toclarify.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
No, that's really well articulated, but I want to
go back to my other point, Iguess, about that being held
against our kids by other people, maybe even adults in certain
circumstances, because of theway you choose to have.
You experienced that at allreally?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
That's a great question.
I try not to look into thatstuff.
That's a financial standpointand I try to do that at a level
(30:21):
that helps everybody that'sinvolved.
So I don't know if that answersyour question, but you'd have
to ask my oldest.
I know he gets it a little bitfor just the family he comes
from.
Sure, that's, it's legit.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I know this isn't.
I mean, I know this isn't aseasy as a conversation as the
last three have been.
So I mean, given the foundationthat we've kind of laid
throughout this episode already,are there any other you know
perspectives you guys have onthis particular topic as a whole
so we can continue down thatpath?
Speaker 3 (30:58):
It's an interesting one, you know.
I think I've hit on kind of thethings that perplex me and that
I continue to give thought to.
I think it's again justnavigating expectations and
standard of living and some ofthe impulsiveness TJ you talked
about.
What is tough about today'ssociety is everything is so
(31:20):
immediately available.
50 years ago when you had animpulse to buy something, there
were a lot more barriers to youactually getting there and
actually making that purchaseand by the time you got through
all those barriers you realizedyou didn't actually want it that
bad.
And in today's day and age, theimpulses and the availability
of that stuff, you can get itquickly and then all of a sudden
you're normalized into this newenvironment.
It's almost impossible thesedays and I say impossible, it's
(31:43):
not impossible, but it isbecoming increasingly difficult,
we'll say to manage yourstandard of living.
You know they say like it'sreally impossible to generate
wealth by increases in salary,because every time you get a
small increase in salary thereare so many infinite ways for
you to consume that additionalwith your standard of living and
not that it's like in anegative fashion.
(32:04):
You may be investing in yourkid's development or other.
You know very wholesome.
You know, things that have along-term payoff.
That may be great, but it's.
It's very tough to fight thoseimpulses that can be acted on so
quickly and avoid falling intothat trap of then your
expectations increasing andslowly continuing to increase
(32:25):
your standard of living.
Because we all came out ofcollege and I think we're making
very modest salaries right andvery, I think, in line with what
people would be making at thattime in their lives and we got
by just fine and, granted, we'resupporting more individuals.
But even when you adjust forthat, the standard of living
(32:47):
that we had at that point, wewere all perfectly fine and
equally happy.
Arguably, compared to some ofthe resources and opportunities
that have been afforded to ussince then, again, just the
standard of living has adjustedand kudos to the marketers out
there that find ways to get ourattention span and get us to
(33:08):
spend the money.
They're very good at it.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, it is a very complex model.
What I love about what you guysare talking about is it does go
back to community and who youspend your time with, um, and I
think that does have a biginfluence on how you spend your
money, um, and the type oflifestyle you choose, cause it's
not just about money and things, experiences and, um, what you
(33:38):
want to create for your childrenand what you want you know.
But again, if you go back toresume versus eulogy, this is
another kind of point.
It's like your money in yourlife.
I mean, if you have anyChristian beliefs, it's to live
a more frugal life and it's togive more right, it's to focus
on helping others, and I thinkthere's a struggle for people
(34:01):
that, especially Christians ingeneral, that have done well.
I think there is a naturaltension there.
I think there's a tension thathow much should I give?
Or how much, you know, if Imake $50 million a year, is it
okay to have a private jet atthat point, like, at what point
do I get the private jet?
At what level do I get thesecond home?
(34:23):
And I think those are reallyhard to wrestle with.
I've never come to a pointwhere it's like okay, you know,
I've gotten here, and now thatchecks that box.
Now it's on to the next thing.
It's a if you're dialed inspiritually and you're focusing
on, you know what God has calledyou to do I think you're always
going to wrestle with am Ispending too much?
Am I giving too much away?
(34:44):
And I think that's a healthybattle.
I think it's something that youneed to constantly be thinking
about is like am I being a goodsteward, even the things that
I'm using for our own lifestyle?
Am I using those?
Well, are there ways that I cangive better, ways that I can
give better?
And that battle should continueon because if it goes unchecked
(35:08):
, it can get really dangerous.
And again, I think you become aslave to things and a slave to
a lifestyle that nobody wants tobe house poor and nobody wants
to be in a situation where I gotthe nice house, but now I've
got so much pressure on me Ican't even live.
Where would you?
Speaker 3 (35:25):
guys say and TJ, I'm interested in you expanding more
.
I know you've done a lot ofquestion asking, but I'll kind
of target this question and thenexpand on that when would you
guys say you've found thehighest ROI in where you've put
your money at different timesover the last decade or so?
Where do you find that from afulfillment perspective and
(35:47):
looking back, you know,distancing yourself from where
you did that that you find mostgratification, satisfaction
where you spent?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
It's funny you say that because I was just about to
pose the same question andagain, I had another
conversation with an individualthe other day that was thinking
about that from the perspectiveand it was a little what do you
call it?
He called it a little macabreor something to that effect.
But, like you know, if you wereon your deathbed and you had
(36:16):
and this kind of goes back tothe eulogy comment or you only
had a particular amount of timeto live, what would you strip
away?
Had a particular amount of timeto live, what would you strip
away?
You know and I think you cantake that and look
retrospectively on what you hadthe biggest ROI on.
And I would say that, you know,I think we started this a
couple of years ago and you mayhave been the first one to
mention it was this experiencething and I think that's become
(36:41):
more of a thing for us and Ithink it's because of the
abundance of things out there.
You know, when we were young, Ithink toys held more worth for
us because you didn't get toysvery often, you know, once or
twice or three times a yearbecause of the barriers in the
way, because you know we didn'tgrow up in an environment that
(37:03):
had an economic system where youknow you have things like Timu
and Shein and all these otherdifferent sites where you can
buy things for a dollar or twodollars or three dollars that
are fairly extra.
It's so.
It's it's just crazy.
You know that.
(37:28):
I think the experience thing hasbeen a really big ROI for us.
And spending, spending time andeffort on top of money, really
trying to uncover scenarioswhere you can spend a lot of
quality time.
I think that would be animportant thing.
That's relative to family, Ithink, from a personal
(37:48):
perspective doing we talkedabout this in episode one doing
epic things with friends andinvesting there.
I mean, I can't tell you howmany times we're around people.
It's probably on a fairlyregular basis and we revert to
one of the half dozen relaysthat we've done at different
places across the country.
And it's probably on a fairlyregular basis.
And we revert to one of thehalf dozen relays that we've
done at different places acrossthe country.
And it's not even necessarilythe performances we've put forth
(38:10):
, although they've been amazing,um, but it's the, the things
that have occurred during thatperiod in time, and some of
these things are not thatexpensive.
You know a lot of these wedrive to.
You know all in for a drivablerelay.
You're talking about three or$400 for a grown male adult,
(38:30):
which isn't 10,000 or $15,000.
So I think those things havebeen really impactful.
I've seen a lot of ROI thereand then I think I'm a little
hesitant to say this because Iwish it wasn't this way, but I'm
(38:54):
definitely glad that we'veinvested to a point in personal
development for the kids,whatever that is, whether that's
academic or from a sportsperspective.
I think those things have beenreally big for us.
I think there are some areas ofwork that I need to address.
(39:15):
My wife and I are going to take, hopefully, a vacation here in
the next couple of weeks.
That's something that's kind offallen by the wayside.
I remember a friend a couple ofyears ago who had kids that
were considerably older thanours saying that they felt like
ships passing in the night, likethey never talked because it
was just school, work, sports,dinner, bed, um.
(39:35):
So you know, making sure thatwe're also I'm also investing in
that part of my life, becausekids won't be here forever and
you have a relationship that hasto exist after the fact.
So those are some of the areasthat I have invested in that I
feel like I've gotten good ROIon.
There are other things that area little more materialistic.
You know that I would say liketurns out, there is a kind of
(40:01):
you get what you pay for.
Turns out, there is a kind ofyou get what you pay for.
So I always kind of get excitedwhen I find something and I
think you guys may feel the same.
That really does like shiftvalue.
From an experience perspective,I think that can be exciting at
times, because now it is likefinding a needle in the haystack
oh, I wanted to get a new baselayer to run in this weather and
there's 500 companies out therethat are sending me Instagram
(40:24):
feed or Instagram ads on thisbase layer that and you find one
like the Tracksmith base layerand it's the best thing ever and
you're so excited to telleverybody about it because you
had to sift through this pile ofhay to find this needle, um,
and so I get excited about thosethings too.
But, uh, yeah, I mean I wouldsay those are some of the areas
(40:45):
where I've seen the most return.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
I'll jump on.
Experiences have definitelybeen one, and not just for my
family, but for other people aswell.
So I've been in a couple ofsituations and we've been able
to do some really fun things.
And it's funny, it's likeexperiences with the family or
with friends.
You spend a couple of daysgoing to war, whether it's a run
or something else.
(41:08):
Like those are the memorieswhen you think about return on
investment.
But as you were talking, tj, Ithought about what are the
things that I remember like thathave been like you know, me and
you going down and doing Disneyand taking a couple of our kids
and we, we did the dopey andran, you know, 5k, 10k, half
marathon, full marathon, fourdays back to back 3am and
crushed the parks and like wewere just destroyed.
(41:31):
But at the end of it it waslike a memorable experience.
And we got to go watch thePacers play the Lakers at the.
We went to Vegas with a coupleof the kids, and so there's just
been a lot of things that ourkids and we've got to do, but
it's really, it's about thejourney, it's about the, it's
not just about oh, we went tothe Lakers game and went to
Disney.
It was like it was about theplane ride, it was about talking
(41:54):
, it was about laughing at night, it was about setting all the
things up and so just a.
Really those are the thingsthat I remember.
And then you know, from thevein side, like you know, we
built a lake house and one ofthe things about that is that
has been a dream of my wife's.
We live there in the summersand we spend it.
(42:14):
It's an incredible family timefor us and we've used that as
well as a way to bring otherpeople together, to use this as
a space that we can cometogether.
We can create memories.
It was really important to mewhen we were doing Christmas,
right, and before mom passed andour Christmases got.
(42:36):
So we kept moving days aroundand it used to be like a couple
hours on the 25th and then weall had kids and then we moved
it to the 24th and then it waslike you guys would get there at
10 AM and you'd have to leaveby four and it was just.
It felt so rushed and it waslike man last year, having a
place where we could come andstay and spend two days together
(42:57):
, right, so for me that's thememory the kids all come
together, we get to spend twodays together, enjoying each
other, not rushing from place toplace to place, and so
sometimes that puts you in aposition where you can do some
things on a broader scale, whereyou can create these memorable
environments where people canhave some experiences, like
(43:19):
going on a boat or tubing orthings or jet skis that they
never would be able to do.
So that has been a big thingfor us.
It was a big investment for us,but I'm continuing trying to
find ways to work with otherorganizations about holding
retreats here from a spiritualstandpoint, as well as utilizing
it for the broader family.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I'm glad you brought that up because I think that's
important.
I think that potentially givesa lot of credence to other
people who invest their money in, in homes that are similar to
something like your lake house,you know, because they love
entertaining people and theylove providing experiences.
I mean, I know this andunfortunately you've set me up
for failure.
But you know you were, you knowyou worked out, kind enough to
(44:05):
have my kids out skiing a coupleof times.
Now it's their favorite thing inthe world to do, and dad may
never be able to take them again.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Come on, we're going in March, but like they're.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
So it was such a memorable experience for them
and, you know, I think it goesto show that you know, if you're
, if you're lucky enough to havethose kinds of experiences, it,
you know it's, there was reallynot a ton of investment on my
part and you can create thoseexperiences.
Um, on the other side of thecoin again, not your side, my
(44:36):
side of the coin you know, itcould be as simple as, like you
said, going downstairs andplaying Madden.
You said that, like theselittle things going in and
having, you know, driving astate away.
Um, you know, one of the thingsI think my daughter will always
remember is we'll go down forum to get sports related right,
but like driving down fornational cross-country
(44:57):
championships.
It's in kentucky, it's a threehour drive, but she's so excited
to go and stay the night in ahotel and, you know, go run and
get a sweatshirt from the eventafterwards to kind of
commemorate that and you guyswent to Oregon too, didn't you?
I mean, I did, I took her toOregon, to the Prefontaine
Classic last year and she got tomeet all of these track
athletes and those kinds ofthings.
(45:18):
You know, luckily, with my jobI travel a ton.
So, again, not a hugeinvestment for me because
airfare is covered and thingslike that, um, with mileage and
whatnot, but but yeah, I mean itdoesn't have to be extravagant.
Those are the things that, thekind of the diamonds in the
rough.
I think the more time you spendcurating the experience and
really putting it together, themore valuable it it is at the
(45:39):
end of the day.
So you know, I think I think ittakes it's like spending time
on a present for a holiday.
You know, for my 40th you guysdidn't buy me anything.
You set up a relay race and youyou knew that's what I liked and
(46:02):
that's my personality and tothis day it's probably the most
Epic relay race we've ever done,just based on the circumstances
and the fact that we won a 200mile relay by like 35 seconds
with a bunch of guys from Marion.
So you know, I think those arethe types of experiences that
you put.
You put time and effort into asopposed to going to something.
(46:26):
They can still be fun, right.
But investing in like acommercialized experience like
Disney can be cool, but it'sstill Disney and it's still
overly commercialized.
And but again, I think if youput enough into it, like
intricately planning to makesure that you get to do what you
want to do when you want to doit, and it gets, it gets better.
So I guess it's it's almost a.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
What I, what I hear you saying, is like
intentionality.
Right, it's like theintentionality behind what
you're doing and I can say from,regardless of which side you
sit on, like the person that'screating the memory or providing
the memory, versus the one kindof being you know asked to be a
part of it.
It's like the fruits on bothsides, like when we were out
skiing with your kids and likeme and you could like.
(47:10):
It just reminded me back in theday when me and you were
shredding and we could get outthere and get after it.
And probably the first and lasttime I'll be able to destroy
you.
From his quads, I think.
I think he was injured, but tjis in incredible shape and um,
I'll never forget the day wewent out on my 40th and we had
fresh powder on uh back on theback, bull and uh first run in
(47:32):
veil.
We had first first run.
It was the most unbelievablething.
We I don't know how many timeswe did it, but like those things
when you think about life andwe're sitting here reflecting,
they're starting to come back tolife.
Like those are the memoriesyour kids learning to ski, like
being able to teach people howto surf at the lake Like those
are the things that people aregoing to remember.
(47:52):
And that is eulogy stuff,because you're being intentional
with your time, you're takingthem out, you're having patience
, you're learning, you'reshowing them something new, and
sometimes it's expensive andsometimes it's not, but again,
it's the intentionality behindit that makes it special,
regardless of what the event is.
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Yeah, you mentioned eulogy and that's probably how I
would characterize it.
I find the highest ROI thingsfor me, as I look back, would be
eulogy, builder type stuff.
Some of it too, I would say, isyou know, they say you can't
pour from an empty cup.
If I look back at the last 12months and the best place I've
probably invested was on a twoday silent retreat it spent $185
(48:32):
and it was for two nights andincluded all food up the St
Joseph retreat center in Tiptonand for me to reorient myself
spiritually and to come out ofthat fresh with so much clarity,
I just I don't think I couldput a price tag on that because
that that pays.
I mean, if I, if I'm changingkind of who I am and how I'm
(48:55):
showing up, you know that paysdividends in every interaction
that I have.
And so if I were to say I wouldsay that would be probably at
or near the top of the list isinvestment to keep myself in a
good place so I can pour fromthat cup.
But beyond that, I think eulogybuilders is, you know, the
things that I would look back onwith the most amount of
(49:16):
gratitude.
And it's hard right, because youguys were talking about this
earlier on, but there's a versein scripture about the lady with
the two coins right and theneveryone else giving of excess,
who were given a hundred timeswhat she was giving, but she was
giving out of actual money thatlike, like you know, cut into
her ability to live acomfortable life, and so I think
(49:36):
that that's always thechallenge in terms of the eulogy
builders too Are you buildingyour eulogy with excess or are
you cutting into actual eulogybuilders, too?
Are you building your eulogywith excess or are you cutting
into actual?
Um you cutting into, you know,actual, you know funds that that
you may have allotted elsewherefor your standard of living?
Um, that's tough I think it's.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
I think it's kind of unfortunate.
You know, with the marketing wetalk a lot about, you brought up
holidays at the lake house andthe kids, and I think it's
unfortunate that we're we'remade to believe that the eulogy
building stuff, that the epicthings are these astronomically
expensive experiences.
One of the things I think wouldbe a great topic of
(50:14):
conversation and I know this hasbeen an interesting way for
this to unfold in terms oflifestyle, but I think all of
these are elements of it is this, this Taylor Swift phenomenon
and just live events in generalphenomenon over the last year
and a half.
We're made to believe that someof these things are the things
(50:39):
that are gonna define our lives,whereas the things that are
going to define our lives where,where is curating the right set
of games to play during aholiday event, you know um can
be way more impactful.
I think of the things we did askids when we would go up to our
grandmother's house, things assimple as recreating the uh
(51:04):
manger scene and going throughthat whole deal Like that that
was.
We'll never forget that and someof the other stuff that we've
done with our cousins over theyears.
But now it's unfortunately.
You know we're made to believethat you have to spend any more
with families of our sizes.
It's five figures minimum to goto, to fly somewhere and get a
(51:25):
hotel and stay for a week andand I think that's unfortunate
because that's not alwaysnecessarily the the pinnacle.
Speaker 3 (51:33):
And I think the kids would agree with that.
I mean when I look back at someof the times, I'm very surprised
.
When I ask the kids aboutcertain memories or they bring
up things that come to mindRarely is it the large, huge,
pinnacle-type peak experiences,the ones where you have to say
do you know how much money wespent on this vacation?
(51:55):
They'll remember just some ofthe normal things.
Noah will say one of hisfavorite things is getting these
quotes every day at the startof the day to start his day um,
and it takes no money at all,and so I I think your point is
really good, that, um, you canincrease and multiply the roi
(52:17):
with thought and intentionality,and so it's not necessarily
what you're investing in, butit's also the thought you're
putting behind it, I think,which is a very really good
point, which is something I'mI'm terrible at some of the
details.
Speaker 1 (52:31):
Was you brought that up?
I just sitting here thinkingI'm like one of the things we
need to do is to sit down andplan the two days that you guys
are here.
What are the?
What are the 10 games we'regoing to play with the 10 kids?
Make it a memorable.
So it's one thing to have themhere, but then the second part
of that is let's put some effortinto planning it to make it fun
, to make the gamification of itall to where they're not just
(52:56):
here running around, which isfun too.
Speaker 3 (52:58):
They terrorize each other, Not running around just
on screens yeah on screens.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Or around just on screens yeah On screens, or
they're doing whatever, uh, butI think there, there, there's,
there's a lot to be said from anintentionality standpoint.
Um, there's a lot of things youcan do from a lifestyle
standpoint that aren't thatisn't around money, Um, but I
don't think money is a bad thingeither.
If it's used in the right way,you can create some special
memories.
(53:23):
Sure, I think it's a greatcomment to wrap it up on.
Okay, so thank you all forjoining in.
This was episode four and wegot a little deep here with some
personal stuff, but hopefullythis continues to resonate with
you guys and we look forward toseeing you on the next episode.
Thanks for coming by.
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