16: Gut Check: Is Your Microbiome Holding Back Your Fitness Goals? With Eric Williamson PhD, RD, MSc

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
There's a really interesting connection between the
microbiome and our body composition and we're still in
the early stages. I know we've been saying that
for a long time, but we're goingto be in the early stages for a
few more years. We're looking at a lot of
correlational data and we're seethat people who are leader, for
example, who have less visceral fat have different microbiomes

(00:24):
compared to those who are larger.
We'll come back to this, but just to highlight right now,
that's the same thing for musclemass.
People have more muscle mass actually tend to have different
microbiomes than people who haveless muscle mass.
Welcome to the Gut Fit NutritionPodcast, the show where we dive

(00:44):
deep into the world of gut health, nutrition and fitness to
help you unlock your best cell from the inside out.
I'm your host Lee Morado, a registered dietitian, gut health
expert, long distance runner andmovement enthusiast on a mission
to. Empower you with science backed.
Whole body strategies to fuel your body, heal your gut, and
thrive in your active life. Whether you're here to finally

(01:05):
break free from IBS and digestive symptoms, optimize
your fitness performance, or learn how to support your gut
health with natural strategies, you're in the right place.
Each week, we'll explore topics like conquering digestive
symptoms, building a gut friendly lifestyle, enhancing
endurance and strength performance, and more.
So grab a cup of your favorite gut friendly tea and settle in

(01:26):
because we're about to get gut fit together.
Ever wonder how your gut health and microbiome could play a role
in body composition, like your muscle and body fat levels, or
even your sports performance? We know that the gut microbiome
plays a critical role in digestion and immunity, but
emerging research is revealing its powerful connection to our

(01:47):
metabolic health, including bodycomposition, as well as measures
of sports performance like VO2 Max and endurance efforts.
To help us dig into the science and the practical applications,
I'm joined by Eric Williamson, registered dietitian and leading
expert in nutrition and metabolism.
He holds ABA in Kinesiology and a BSc in Nutrition from Western

(02:09):
University and completed his Master of Science and PhD in
Exercise, Nutrition and Metabolism at the University of
Toronto. Eric has been a registered
dietitian for over 10 years and is also a certified Specialist
in Sports Dietetics and a Certified Strength and
Conditioning Specialist. Currently, Eric serves as the
Director of Nutrition at Canyon Ranch, a premier health resort

(02:32):
with multiple properties across the US.
He leads their team of dietitians, works with the
culinary teams to set the nutrition standards for their
restaurants, and delivers engaging presentations on topics
like longevity, weight. Loss and gut health.
He has worked with a wide range of individuals from elite
athletes to busy professionals, helping them optimize their

(02:52):
health through evidence based personalized nutrition
strategies. Let's dive into today's
conversation. Hey, hello, Eric.
Welcome to the show. Hi, Lee, thanks so much for
having me. Yeah, joining us all the way
from Massachusetts. That's right, recently moved to
Massachusetts. I was in Tucson, AZ until April

(03:13):
and I was transferred to our other Canyon Ranch location here
in Massachusetts in the Berkshires of Massachusetts,
specifically the town Lenox. Cool.
And you used to be used to live in Canada, right?
Originally from. Canada.
Oh yes, I am Canadian through and through.
I was born and raised in Sarnia,ON.

(03:34):
Went to Western in London, ON for my undergrads and did my
graduate studies, my Master's and PhD at the University of
Toronto. Spent a lot of time in Toronto.
Cool. OK, Yeah, we're going to come
back. Or are you permanently stuck in
the States? Yeah, big question.
Who knows? We'll see what the future holds.

(03:55):
We're just taking it one day, one year at a time.
Yeah, we we plan to visit a lot though.
Yeah, I still have a lot of friends and family here.
I bet that's right. Cool.
So I'm excited for our discussion today all about gut
microbiome and how it connects more to sports performance and
body composition. So just before we get into the

(04:16):
discussion, do you want to explain a bit more about
yourself, who you help, where you work?
Yeah. And yeah, sure, your area of
practice. Yeah, I've worked with a really
diverse range of individuals andI feel very privileged to be
able to say that it's been supercool to work with different
people of of all backgrounds. I had my own business and still

(04:40):
do unlocked fitness and nutrition where I do private
consulting and some coaching. I've had that all through my
graduate studies as I mentioned,and also am still practicing
within that to a small degree where I work primarily with
those who are active and have different performance, health or

(05:00):
body comps related related goals.
My other role and main position now is as the Director of
nutrition for Canyon Ranch. It's a health resort.
There's four locations across the United States.
As I mentioned, I was in the first location that was ever
built, the flagship in Tucson, AZ for the past two years and
then recently moved here to Berkshires, Massachusetts to our

(05:23):
other large locations. I work within that same area as
I did my private business, whichis what made it a really easy
transition. Perhaps a few more women in
particular and the demographic typically between 40 and 60
years of age, but a lot of people looking to optimize their
health, pursue longevity and meet different performance and

(05:47):
body composition related goals. Well, of course, juggling the
busy lives that we have from day-to-day as well.
That's cool, that's awesome. And in terms of your role now at
Canyon Ranch, do you do like anyone-on-one support or you're
more overseeing like programs, workshops, all that?

(06:08):
A little bit of both. I see guests 1 to 1 and provide
nutrition consultations, have lots of virtual follow-ups, kind
of in the spirit of coaching as I was used to in my own private
business. I also work with the culinary
team. I set the nutrition standards
across the properties for our menus and it's amazing how

(06:28):
delicious they make the food taste while hitting these
nutrition standards that we set.We also have certain sourcing
standards and of course at the very core of it, making sure the
majority is coming from full nutritious foods.
Just show people and inspire them and demonstrate that you
can have food that is both nutritious and delicious,

(06:50):
doesn't have to be in one or theother.
I manage all the dietitians across properties, provide
presentations and oversee a lot relate to of course all the
nutrition and a lot about food and dining as well.
Oh, that's super cool. I can't say that I I know like
another, I guess hotel or like large resort that has dietitians

(07:14):
and involved in it's both like menu and food options, but also
providing like services. So that's pretty cool.
Is it a one-of-a-kind or there are other similar things?
I. Mean from the history, the
history that I've heard is that we were the first.
There are other resorts out there, especially in the health
sphere. I don't think anybody does it as
well as we do though. Yeah.

(07:36):
We have an incredible interprofessional team, superb
physicians, exercise physiologists, therapists, you
name it. It's a really cool
interprofessional environment here.
Wow, that's awesome. OK, I can see why you wouldn't
want to come back. Yeah, I do.
There's certain, yeah, lots thatI miss there, that's for sure.

(07:58):
Yeah, cool. All right.
And what's, yeah, what got you into this area of, I guess,
practice, specifically working more with athletes, active
people? Is that something that relates
to you or what sort of got you into it?
It was personal goals, of course, trying to figure out
fitness and performance for myself, right back to my teenage

(08:20):
years when I just felt like I could not lose fat and gain
muscle in particular. And I was also attempting to be
a runner like you, but felt likemy performance and body
composition just remained stagnant.
And of course, I was looking everywhere for information.

(08:41):
And there's much more of this today, but there was certainly a
good amount of misinformation back then and everything was
contradictory. So I decided I was going to
figure this out and figure it out for myself.
So I just went all in, did an undergraduate degree in
nutrition at the same time as doing an undergraduate degree in

(09:02):
kinesiology as I knew I wanted to marry those two fields of
exercise, nutrition, understand the interplay between them.
I started coaching under anothernutrition coach who primarily
worked with physique athletes inmy undergrad and that was an
incredible experience. I then competed in physique
myself. I competed in powerlifting, it's

(09:24):
5KS and had a lot of fun with itreally started with my own
personal aspirations, but I I very quickly developed a strong
passion for helping others in the area.
And even though I went the full length of of doing a PhD, my my
priority was always to be a practitioner and to be a

(09:47):
dietitian and just to master this area and have as deep an
understanding of it as I could. Awesome, so you said you did 2°
at the same time? Did, yeah.
There was a lot of lot of summerschool technically.
Yeah, because 1° isn't enough. Well I know when I started I

(10:08):
thought oh I could major in nutrition minor and minor in
kinesiology but that's not a thing.
They're degrees, they are separate degrees.
So I did ABA in kinesiology and BSc in nutrition and it's
technically supposed to be 5 years but I just did some
summers more than some summer school and figure got done for.

(10:30):
Oh wow, were there any courses that you could use for both or
did you have to take the? Full.
Yeah, there was plenty. Yeah, that's yeah.
OK, good. Honestly, if it didn't overlap
as much, yeah. If you choose 2 completely
separate degrees it could take longer than five years.
Yeah, for sure. Cool.
And you did your schooling in, did you say Western and.

(10:51):
Toronto, I went to Western University of Western Ontario
for my undergraduate degrees. Did my internship with a company
called Aramark. Fortunately that internship no
longer exists, but it was fantastic.
And then went back to the thesisbased masters.
That was two years and then my PhD took me 5 years, primarily

(11:11):
because of some setbacks due to COVID.
Yeah, cool. You just did you just finish
your PhD or how long has it beennow?
I finished in 2020. 20 OK, so three years ago now.
OK, cool. It's a lot of school.
Yes, it was and you really have to have a passion for the field.

(11:33):
Lucky that I do. Definitely.
Cool. I was a professor for a little
while. Afterwards I I taught online for
the University of British Columbia.
Oh, OK, awesome. And I continued to do research
in the lab that I did my PhD as a paid research assistant, paid
scientist. And then Canyon Ranch found me.
They said, think you'd be a goodfit for this role.

(11:54):
I came out to look at it. I said, hey, yeah, this looks
pretty cool. Let's try it out for a little
while. Here I am about two years later.
Awesome. That's so cool.
Any like particular types of athletes or active people you
like to work with or it really? Started.
It really started in physique sport because that was my.

(12:15):
Bodybuilding competition. Yeah, and people aiming to lean
down for any particular type of events or sometimes photo shoots
and such. And then during my graduate
studies, that evolved into a more broad array of different
types of athletes. But my research really exposed

(12:35):
me to runners because both my masters, my main projects for my
masters, my PhD, were in runners.
We were studying protein metabolism following endurance
exercise at the time. And that led me to pursuing and
actually just kind of serendipitously falling into

(12:59):
endurance sport as well, which is fascinating.
I love nutrition for endurance sport because it can make a huge
difference. Definitely cool.
You still running now or a little bit?
Just for fitness, I haven't doneany type of race.
I don't know if I'll do that again anytime soon.
Maybe one day I'd like to, but Ido enjoy running.

(13:20):
Yeah, cool. All right, Well, let's get into
our topic for today's. We talked first a bit about the
connection between gut microbiome and body composition.
So just to define the gut microbiome, it's essentially
like the collection of all the microbes within our
gastrointestinal tract. So this includes bacteria, but

(13:41):
also yeast, fungi, Archaea, all those things.
And they're primarily located inthe large bowel.
We don't have much microbes in our small bowel just 'cause
there's a lot of like rapid flowof contents and higher acid
content there as well. Most of it's in our our large
bulb. And we do know like the gut
microbiome plays a huge role in everything from obviously

(14:02):
digestion, but also immunity or mental health.
Like 90% of our serotonin is produced in the gut energy
levels, helping with nutrient production and then also
metabolic health too. So even the link between like
blood sugar regulation and insulin sensitivity and as we
make it into body composition too.
So do you want to define what body composition is just so we

(14:26):
know what we're what we're talking about once we get into
the connection? Piece, Yeah.
So it's essentially how we compartmentalize our body.
The two main components of our body that most people will have
a metric of when they have theirbody composition assessed are

(14:47):
lean mass or fat free mass. They're only very slight
differences between the two. We usually use them
synonymously, lean mass or fat free mass and fat mass.
So fat mass is just fat all of our adipose tissue and lean mass
is everything else. If you have something like a Bod
Pod, which is a brand name for what's termed air displacement

(15:12):
discography, that will give you lean mass and fat mass over
time. If we see our fat mass decline,
well, we can rest assured that body fat decline over time.
If we see our lean mass increase, generally the main
lean mass that we have control over is our muscle mass.

(15:35):
So often is an indication of increase in muscle mass.
Then we can take that a step further.
For example, if somebody has a DEXA body composition, it gives
us more, it provides more detailed breakdown of the
components of our body composition, where now we can

(15:56):
see the location of lead mass, such as how it's distributed
amongst our limbs in our midsection.
And it also gives bone mass, which is part of lead mass.
And that's useful especially formen and women over the age of 50
in particular, to keep an eye ontheir bone mineral density,

(16:17):
considering osteopenia and osteoporosis are greater risk
for most menopausal women and athletes too.
Athletes want to keep an eye on their bone mineral density as
well, especially endurance athletes.
We can also look at the compartmentalization of fat, not
just subcutaneous fat, which is the fat under our skin, but we

(16:39):
can also get an estimate of visceral fat from a DEXA scan.
And visceral fat is more associated with increased
metabolic disease risk as well. So there's different components
of our body and that's what encompasses body composition.
Depending what metric we use, wecan determine what the masses of

(17:04):
these different components and observe their change over time.
Cool. And would you put like the Bod
POD, which I think is much easier to say than the actual
type of test? I can never pronounce it.
And the DEXA scan are sort of considered like the most
accurate types of body composition because there's a
lot out there. I mean, I've been getting

(17:25):
recently like YouTube ads for even other types of like home
skills, but those tend to be themost accurate, right?
The colloquial term, the term that I use for the lay public,
is accurate for sure. In research terms, we call it
valid or we assess the validity and we assess reliability.
So if you picture a dart board, if something hits the bullseye,

(17:46):
then that means it's valid. If something hits the bullseye
consistently, then it's both valid and reliable.
The two types of body composition measurement most
commonly used today that are both valid and reliable are
BODPOD and DEXA. The nice thing about DEXA is

(18:09):
that it also provides those other components like visceral
fat and bone mineral density as well.
It is considered to be slightly more valid or more accurate than
the pod pod too. So it's usually say DEXA as a a
single modality as a gold standard and pod pod is close
second place. But a lot of people have access

(18:30):
to other means of body composition measurement like you
mentioned, perhaps like an in body scan, which are becoming
more popular even in local gyms.Those aren't as valid when you
compare them to a DEXA. They don't tend to produce the
same results, but they're still reliable.
And the most important thing formost people is to assess change

(18:51):
over time. So we can still use metrics like
an in body scan, which is actually what we call
bioelectric impedance in body, just like Bodpod is the brand
name. And that'll tell us how our fat
mass and mass mass or late mass are changing over time.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, definitely the in body is

(19:11):
is a lot more common. It's it's cheaper to access to
like I think with some people's gym memberships, they can just
do them once a month or however much.
I know at a gym that I used to work to work at, we used to
charge like $40.00 for a scan. And they're a lot more common
just 'cause they're lower cost equipment versus the DEXA scan
is like a $80,000 machine and todo like a test that's around

(19:36):
like $100. I think you're in in Toronto.
So a little bit harder to access, but it is more valid as
you said. Yeah, but that to say like the
trends over time is what we wantto look at if we're using maybe
something that's not as accurateas a DEXA.
So an in body scan and then the home scales I think are even

(19:57):
less sort of valid than the in body.
Is that right? That's correct.
You're going to see that jump around a lot more because with
bioelectric impedance, it's basically looking at how quickly
a current travels through your body.
And if you're using a scale thathas those plates for your feet,
the current is going to take theshortest route possible.
So it's going to go up one leg and down the other.

(20:19):
It's estimating your lean mass and body fat essentially based
on your lower body. And the more hydrated you are,
the faster that current's going to travel as well.
So people might see that their body fat percentage is going up
and down, for example, every day.
That's not actually happening. Our 5 fat percentage does not
change that quickly, but it can it can again provide us an

(20:43):
indication of our trajectory over time.
If we take an average over time,we look at the line overall.
Yeah, yeah, makes sense. And then try to minimize the
variable. So do it at the same time of
day, make sure you're well hydrated, but not dehydrated or
under hydrated, but they have the same amount of food before
each time. That will all influence it as

(21:03):
well too, right? Yeah.
So I think definitely muscle mass is having a a moment along
with the trend for more strengthtraining.
So we know, I think generally people know that, you know,
having more muscle is a good thing.
And then I guess being within like a healthy range for body
fat is considered a good thing. But yeah, do you want to take

(21:26):
that a little bit further and add anything else there in terms
of like using body composition as sort of a metric for health?
How would you? Yeah.
What would you say? Right.
Both of those are just indicators of our health.
That's how I describe these. We can also say a thing, same
thing about blood tests. We can say the same thing about

(21:46):
our diet. We can say the same thing about
our exercise levels. And if when we quantify these
things, they're providing indicators of our health,
longevity, the more indicators that we can have lined up, the
lower our risk it's going to be,the longer expected life
expectancy would be on average. For example, if you applied that
to a population, muscle mass is having its moment in the

(22:12):
spotlight because I believe I would agree it's been under
represented in recommendations put forward for exercise and
body composition over the years.It's one of the primary
indicator and by some resources,by some data would suggest it is
the strongest indicator of somebody's health span.
Essentially, how long they'll live without severe disability

(22:35):
or disease and how long they will be able to perform their
activities of daily living without requiring support or
nursing home care, for example. So muscle mass is incredibly
important for our quality of life as we get older, and I
think that's the main reason that's receiving so much

(22:56):
attention. And we are also realizing that
we start to lose muscle mass fairly quickly after the age of
30, about half a percentage every year.
And that accelerates to about 1%loss every year after the age of
60. And we want to make sure that
we're going into our older adultlife with a good base of muscle
mass in case we ever become ill or mobilized through those times

(23:20):
for fat mass again. It can be an indicator of
somebody's health and the fat mass itself isn't what poses a
risk of mortality, potentially death in and of itself directly.
It then influences our metabolichealth or our metabolism of

(23:43):
blood sugars, our metabolism of fats, which shows up as
cholesterol in our lipid profileof a blood test and the fat mass
that's going to put dysregulation of our metabolism
of those important nutrients in our body.
At most risk is that visceral fat having a high amount of fat

(24:06):
around the midsection. So when assessing somebody's
risk, first we want to see do they have these outcomes of
increased visceral fat? Are we seeing that their
cholesterol is high or the bloodpressure is high or the blood
sugars are uncontrolled? Well, perhaps losing visceral
fat is a higher priority for them that someone else who

(24:30):
doesn't have those outcomes of having high visceral fat or if
they just have more subcutaneousfat.
So body composition allows us todetermine a risk along with all
of these other indicators that we can use as well.
Right. Yeah, like having higher body
fat is inherently bad, even looking at the type, the
location of of body fat. So with subcutaneous, that's the

(24:53):
fat that's located underneath the skin.
And aesthetically some people may want like less of it or it
may, you know, bother them, but it's really the visceral fat.
That's the fat that's surrounding like our deep
internal organs, like our liver or stomach, even our intestines,
our heart, that is much more detrimental to health.
I think because part of it is because it is like hormonally

(25:16):
active. And when there's more of it,
there's different types of like inflammatory chemicals that get
secreted and it does increase risk for heart disease, type 2
diabetes, even fatty liver disease as well.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
And and another really low link in the chain right after
visceral fat is insulin resistance.

(25:38):
Visceral fat contributes to insulin resistance because our
liver doesn't function as well when it has fat surrounding it.
For example, it doesn't pick up that there's blood or that
there's sugar in the blood as effectively and it'll produce
blood sugar, doesn't store bloodsugar as well or tissues across
the body. And that really throws
everything off and starts to result in a lot of those other

(25:59):
outcomes that we see, like higher blood pressure and even
cholesterol issues. That's why, yeah, I prefer if
someone does have access to the DEXA scan versus like an in body
because, yeah, the in body cannot test for that visceral
fat, but the DEXA scan is able to look at that.
So it can be helpful even for someone who feels like they're

(26:21):
maybe worried about their body fat, but just to give them a
little bit of an indicator of where it may be coming from and,
you know, whether it is actuallyimpacting their health or if it
is more just an aesthetic thing,that can be helpful as well.
I'll add there that it's one piece of the puzzle, It's one
indicator and we can't just consider that it's not the only
piece that we're going to look at.

(26:44):
How fit somebody is is going to also influence the level of risk
they experience to heightened visceral fat and other
components of our lifestyle suchas our microbiome, which getting
into as well can have an influence.
Yeah, exactly. So what would you, what would
you say about the, what does theresearch currently tell us in

(27:05):
terms of how the like our gut microbiome or gut health can
impact body composition and evenin the case of visceral fat,
what the role is there? There's a really interesting
connection between the microbiome and our body
composition and we're still in the early stages.

(27:26):
I know we've been saying that for a long time, but we're going
to be in the early stages for a few more years.
We're looking at a lot of correlational data and we're see
that people who are leader, for example, who have less visceral
fat have different microbiomes compared to those who are
larger. We'll come back to this, but

(27:46):
just to highlight right now, that's the same thing for muscle
mass. People have more muscle mass,
actually tend to have different microbiomes than people who have
less muscle mass. Let's focus on body fat first.
Part of the question is what is the direction of causality here
and is this causal? Do leaner people have a

(28:09):
different micro Biome because they're leaner or are they
leaner because they have a different microbiome and there
are certain supplements out there that would perhaps mark it
in a way that would have you believe the latter.
I would say that the data is notpreventing in that direction.

(28:31):
Generally have a leaner people have a different microbiome.
But when you look at studies whothat change the microbiome of
those who are in larger bodies, we don't see weight loss.
We don't see that they become leaner.

(28:52):
They've even done studies where they do fecal transplants.
And if anybody's eating right now, maybe you want to just mute
this for the next 10 seconds, but essentially take poop from
an A lean healthy individual. In this case, blend it up, put
into pills, make sure it's free of any particular pathogens, and

(29:13):
then put it down a tube right into their intestine that bypass
the stomach and that does actually change their microbiome
for a good couple of weeks. If you do that multiple times
over a period of time they've they've had done these
interventions and we don't see that people lose weight.

(29:33):
There's been multiple randomizedcontrol trials trying to change
the microbiome to see if that results in fat loss.
And the opposite is also true. They've actually done, they've
done studies where they take people with cancer who are
experiencing cachexia or wastingbecause of suppressed appetite

(29:53):
and hypermetabolism. So they're losing mass very
quickly, which is dangerous. And they've inserted A
microbiome or tried to change the microbiome to be more like
those who have higher body mass,higher body fat levels.
And that doesn't seem to result in any weight gain.
So it's highly likely that it's that body composition in this

(30:18):
case, or fat mass influences themicrobiome rather than the
microbiome having a huge influence on fat mass.
One of those microbes in there that people might be aware of or
have seen out there is acromancia.
Acromancia is commonly sold as asupplement or in supplements
suggested to help with fat loss.But as I just mentioned, as we

(30:43):
can see across studies, it's highly unlikely to produce that
result. We're not seeing that happen in
the randomized control trials. So this increase in acromancia
is a result primarily from the enhanced leanness, which is also
enhanced our insulin sensitivityand that's improving our

(31:05):
microbiome in certain ways. So pursuing a positive body
composition that in and of itself enhances our microbiome.
Coming back to muscle mass, we can also look at particular
microbes in that ecological system of our gut and they're

(31:26):
higher in those that have highermuscle mass.
Now you can make a mechanistic case here that these or that a
particular microbiome composition or more diverse
microbiome lowers inflammation, which enhances recovery from
exercise and can help with adaptations to exercise like

(31:49):
gaining muscle mass. And one day we might be there,
one day we may actually have probiotic supplements for
individuals who have very low muscle mass, termed sarcopenia,
to the point where it's affecting their health and
quality of life. And we may be able to improve
their response to resistance exercise and protein.

(32:10):
It's not going to do it alone, but with with those other
powerful interventions, it's possible it could actually move
the deal a little bit more. Again, one of the more common
microbes of people that science has looked at as acromancia in
this case as well. But as of right now, when we're

(32:36):
looking at the conclusions of research studies and review
papers, it is not to take probiotics like probiotic
supplementation to enhance our body composition.
It's having a good body composition enhances our
microbiome and also eating in a way that supports our microbiome

(33:01):
by allowing for greater diversity.
Greater quantity of our microbesmay have positive effects on our
body composition, especially formost mass and for fat mass.
If somebody does have high levels of visceral fat, we know
that greater diversity quantity is more protective, so it's

(33:22):
still worth pursuing enhancements in our microbiome
to help prevent and reduce the risk of diseases related to
having higher body fat levels. Right.
OK. So it's really I guess more of a
two way connection, like it's not just one way or the other.

(33:47):
So it's not that our gut microbiome alone influences our
body composition or that or thatour body composition influences
our microbiome. But it sounds like it's, it's
working both ways and it's pretty complex because there's a
lot of different systems and, and things to consider going on.

(34:08):
They mentioned there's no, yeah,no probiotics for helping
increase muscle mass. I know there's, I think one or
two on the market, at least herein Canada, they're listed on the
probiotic chart. One of them is HMF Metabolic,
but it's considered like a probiotic to help with weight
management. But I think the evidence on it
is maybe low, low to moderate equality, Although there's a lot

(34:32):
like tossed around in terms of taking probiotics for weight and
whether it can help. It sounds like the research
isn't quite there yet. Would you agree?
If you there are some randomizedcontrol trials on
Bifidobacterium animalis, which even if you look at the US
probiotics guide. So US probioticsguide.com a

(34:55):
resource used by many practitioners to determine
certain probiotic probiotic strains that are indicated for
certain conditions. So if somebody comes to us and
they have an inflammatory biopsies or even certain
psychiatric, psychiatric disorders, you can find what

(35:19):
probiotic strain may be helpful in those specific cases.
And you do see Bifidobacterium animalis because it enhances
acromancia in our gut. However, the next question is,
as I always encourage people to ask, how much, how much bang for
your buck are you getting here? Much, how much return on

(35:41):
investment? If you look at those couple of
randomized control trials that are about 12 that are 12 weeks
long, people are losing about a pound more with these
probiotics. I mean, the research is really
mixed, but those that are showing a positive effect, we're
seeing about a pound in 12 weeks.
There's a lot bigger fish to frythan increasing bacteria Bifito,

(36:07):
bacterium, animalis and acromancia in our gut right to
help with body composition changes.
So at this time not recommended to take probiotics from my
standpoint when pursuing body composition change.
But as in almost all other cases, any other health related

(36:30):
goal improving our microbiome from a food based approach which
we'll come back to, don't worry,I'm not just going to leave it
there, we'll talk about the practicalities there, but from a
food based approach does enhanceour health and may have small
beneficial effects or body composition.

(36:51):
Right, Yeah, that's an importantnote of it.
I think a good point about probiotics too, like with
Acromancia, it's definitely having a moment.
I think it's going to be more talked about in the next few
months. But even in the case of IBS and
like leaky gut, it's being thrown around as a potential,
you know, supplement. But just because, like, we know

(37:13):
something exists in the microbiome and it's good for us,
doesn't always mean that taking it in like a pill form or as a
supplement form will provide like the same effects.
So we still need to see actuallyfrom high quality studies
whether it actually produces beneficial results, because it's
not always correlated. And there could be risks to

(37:34):
taking it on its own as well. There's the possibility of
crowding out other beneficial bacteria in our guts, and
there's also the small risk of gene transfer with certain
probiotic strains where they canbe resistant to antibiotics.

(37:56):
And if we have pathogenic bacteria in our guts, then the
genes from the antibiotic resistant probiotics can be
transferred to the pathogenic bacteria and they become
antibiotic resistant. The risk is very low, but it's a

(38:18):
possibility. And it's one more point of
caution against just taking any probiotic supplement.
Yeah, that's a good point too. So in the case of visceral fat,
and so I believe it's the hormone adiponectin is
considered like when levels are high in the body, it's linked

(38:41):
with lower visceral fat and lower levels of adiponectin are
linked with higher levels of visceral fat.
From my understanding, doing things like eating more fiber,
which is good for the microbiome.
I think even like fermented foods and as you said other
things that are helpful for bodycomposition, getting more
protein, sleep are linked with increased levels of a

(39:02):
diplonectin. So what would you say in terms
of that connection between the fat and and potentially the
microbiome link there? That's one mechanism perhaps
increasing adiponectin, which weknow is involved in the
breakdown of fat for its utilization as a fuel source.
But the the main mechanism by which enhancing our microbiome

(39:29):
may reduce the risk of visceral fat storage is it it enhances
insulin sensitivity through lower levels of inflammation.
Right. So higher levels of inflammation
across the body increase insulinresistance, the reciprocal of
incident sensitivity. So higher levels of insulin
resistance means lower levels ofinsulin sensitivity, greater

(39:53):
levels of inflammation, lower levels of insulin sensitivity by
having a healthy gut. We know that there's a gut
everything axis, there's got hard axis, got brain axis, which
a lot of people have heard of, gut muscle axis where the gut is
communicating with these other organ systems.

(40:14):
Lower levels of inflammation at the gut means lower levels of
inflammation across the body, right, Which helps to improve
insulin sensitivity for better storage of nutrients across the
body other than in the visceral region, particularly for fat.
OK. So what would you say if you had

(40:35):
a client that asked you, is there anything I can do to
improve my gut microbiome in order to improve my body
composition? What would you say?
I would say that that's not somewhere I would start with
someone if they're looking to enhance their body composition.
I'm not going to change their microbiome and expect that we're

(40:57):
going to see a large change in their body composition.
Right. There are other things that are
going to give us a much greater return on investment, exercising
regularly if we're pursuing mostmass, of course, including
resistance exercise and including more foods that are
supportive of the goal of fat loss, particularly those that

(41:19):
are high in nutrient density, low in caloric density.
Because at the end of the day, we want to lose fat.
We do need to be in a caloric deficit.
I know that somehow become controversial.
There's very few things that we are very sure of in nutrition.
Nutrition science is such a young field.
But calorie balance is a thing. Doesn't mean somebody needs to
count. And I don't necessarily have
people counting when they come and see me and when they're

(41:40):
we're working together. But I am thinking about that in
the back of my mind of having them eat more foods that are
going more naturally, put them into a caloric deficit, fat
loss. However, I say to everyone that
improving our gut health and ourmicrobiome is always a noble
pursuit. It's always worth investing our

(42:01):
time in because as much before, even if we have the same level
of this or high level of this orfat enhance microbiome, lower
chronic inflammation levels, lowers our risk of disease
outcomes, it enhances our health, it enhances our recovery
from exercise. Very likely we have mechanisms

(42:23):
there and some decent data to suggest that it would.
So it is certainly an adjunct inalmost all pursuits of health
that's going to assist us. Cool.
And it could be, I guess even woven into like what you said in
terms of trying to get more whole nutrient dense foods.

(42:43):
Like we know to improve the gut microbiome, we want more
diversity in the diet. So making sure you're not just
eating chicken, rice and broccoli all day to get more
protein, but having like different colors of vegetables
and maybe try some different grains like quinoa or potatoes
for your carbs and different types of proteins or plant
protein. So still keeping like the

(43:05):
overall concept the same and, and trying to get more protein
in the diet and, and being in a slight caloric deficit.
But even just incorporating those aspects of supporting a
healthy microbiome within it would be a smart way to do it.
Right. Luckily, there's a lot of
overlap there. When we're improving our diet
for body composition changes or health overall, we're often

(43:28):
seeking more plant foods, more fruits and vegetables, more
Whole Foods, meaning as close totheir natural state as possible
when I say whole and high fiber foods.
And of course, these are fantastic for our microbiome as
well. Yeah, exactly.
So we know fiber, like it helps us to feel full and it's more
satiating. So it can help if someone is

(43:50):
maybe, you know, and it's like Calor deficit to feel more full.
But from a microbiome standpoint, we know that fiber
is the fuel for our good gut bacteria.
Without enough fiber, they starve and they start to munch
on our lining of our intestinal tract and it can allow like
pathogenic bacteria to take overand all that.
So definitely the overlap there between getting enough fiber is

(44:11):
key. Is there anything else you would
add to like overlap between bodycomposition support and
microbiome health? Like anything else that comes to
mind in terms of the connection.I think, I think you nailed it
there with I would just highlight that this is from food
in particular. We're not going to see the same
result from fiber supplementation as we will as

(44:35):
increasing our fiber intake fromfood.
We don't want to make a massive jump because that can cause a
lot of gas, for example, if we're not adapted to a higher
fiber intake, but increasing it slowly, especially from foods
typically, I mean, almost all cases, these foods are really
supportive of changes in body composition.

(44:56):
And they're going to help transport more of those
indigestible carbohydrates for by our upper guts down to the
lower gut, where as you mentioned, you know, more than
75% of our microbiome is larger bowel so that they can digest
those fibers. Yeah, carbohydrate.

(45:18):
But even in the context of hydration, like we know that
good hydration, drinking enough water helps waste to move
through your gut, keeps you regular so you're not getting
backed up. Would you say that hydration is
a good strategy for body composition change or what?
Like does it help indirectly or what would you say is the
connection there? Well, believe it or not, the

(45:42):
strongest predictor of how satiating meal is, or
essentially how full and satisfied you you'll feel for
less calories, is water content of the food.
Now this doesn't mean water on the side of a meal.
It means water in the food predictor.
And that doesn't sound real sexyto people.

(46:05):
It's not very exciting, but it'strue.
So having these foods that have a lot of water content, a lot of
bulk to them, along with fiber, of course, including source
bleed protein, that's where we're going to get the most bang
for our buck in terms of body composition changes.
I would just again echo what yousaid as far as other benefits

(46:29):
for the microbiome. Staying well hydrated allows our
food to move through our digestive system at an
appropriate rate. We don't want things moving
through too quickly to the pointdiarrhea, but we also don't want
things sitting around for a longtime because that can produce a
a dysbiotic. Environment.
Or more pathogenic bacteria whenwhen food is sitting in one spot

(46:55):
for a long period of time. So hydration is an important
component of that. Yeah, you could say a lot of
things. Maybe are connected indirectly
to like supporting your microbiome and making sure
you're digesting things well. And if you have less bloating
and abdominal pain, that may make make you more consistent
with your exercise. Like, I work with a lot of

(47:17):
people with IBS who are also athletes, and when they
experience digestive distress, sometimes it can cut their
workouts short or they may not, you know, be as likely to push
as hard. So you could even say that just
supporting good digestion is going to make you more
consistent with the things that will help with body composition,
like your workouts and the training and the movement,

(47:37):
right? I totally agree with that the
connection there. Too.
Yeah, cool. And then let's talk about the
link between microbiome health and performance.
So yeah. What would you say are there?
Any performance metrics? Maybe there's not, but anything
that's been linked with microbiome health or is that

(47:58):
just a really, really small areaof research right now?
What would you say it's a It's actually a large area of
research. Oh, is it OK there is a?
Correlation with. Almost everything they have they
have correlated different microbes.
In our microbiome. And just the diversity in
general with many different performance metrics.

(48:20):
I'm talking grip strength, swimming speed, time to
exhaustion. And.
Perhaps the largest one is VO2 Max.
Believe it or not, there's a correlation between our
microbiome diversity and our VO2Max, the paper said.

(48:41):
Gut microbiotic composition related to cardio respiratory is
related to cardio respiratory fitness.
Healthy young adults and they found that there was a
significant relationships between VO2 Max and the
diversity of our guts and explained 22% of the variance in
someone's gut bacteria. So VO2 Max was able to explain a

(49:05):
significant degree of the healthof someone's gut.
Wow, so there. Is a connection between.
All different types of performance metrics, including
that real big one, BO2 Max, and our gut bacteria.
We know BO2 Max is the strongestpredictor that we have someone's
life expectancy. So BO2 Max essentially how much

(49:28):
oxygen our body can take in and use.
It's essentially an endurance test and it can be measured
where they have you on a bike ortreadmill with a mask.
That is a #1 predictor that we are aware of.
The number one biomarker for lifespan.
It's high in those who are centenarians by age relative to

(49:49):
age. And.
People who are and they've looked at the microbiome and
centenarians and centenarians also have a microbiome much more
similar to young adults than they do to their older adult
counterparts as well. So there there is actually a
really strong connection betweenperformance metrics and our

(50:10):
microbiome. Cool.
Now let's talk more about the. VO2, so VO2 Max, so again like
the Ackermans, yeah, it's definitely another popular topic
these days. Can you explain a bit more about
or just repeat again what VO2 Max is?
And then in terms of the connection between the
microbiome, is it that again, does the gut, a healthy gut

(50:31):
microbiome improve your VO2 Max or is it having a higher VO2 Max
can change your microbiome or what's the what's the direction
of the link? Let me start with the first
question. VO2 Max is our aerobic capacity.
How much oxygen? Our bodies can.
Take in and use over a period oftime.

(50:54):
The more oxygen our bodies can take in and use, the higher our
VO2 Max to an extent that's hereditary and our potential is
hereditary how high we can take it.
But it is very much so influenced by training.
And sedentary individuals of course, are going to have the
lowest VO2 Max. We know that exercise alone

(51:15):
enhances our microbiome independent of food.
And that's one thing I want to highlight is, is diet is only
one component that influences our microbiome.
Where we live, our sex, both of those actually influence our
microbiome more than diet does. But exercise and the type of
exercise we do, it influences our microbiome.

(51:36):
And one of the proposed mechanisms here is part of the
reason that we experience gut issues during exercise or it's
difficult to eat during and sometimes it's difficult to eat
after, is because we have a lackof blood flow to our gut.
The academic term for that is ischemia.
Our bodies are prioritizing blood flow to our muscles, and

(51:59):
that leaves less blood flow to our gut, which can result in
damage that same lack. Of blood flow.
Creates an anaerobic environment, an environment
restricted of oxygen, which is how we grow some bacteria.
When you think about how we ferment certain foods to create
probiotic foods, it's an anaerobic process.

(52:20):
You jar them, you cut them off from oxygen and that allows us
to grow. It's the same thing that we're
doing in our guts. So there is an interplay here
and exercise can enhance the microbes in our gut and that's
one of the ways in which it does.
So that's part of it. And there there's absolutely a
mechanism by which our microbiome would enhance our

(52:46):
endurance and. Our performance.
We know that it may actually. Help.
Buffer acids out of the blood and that allows for greater
capacity to train and lower levels of inflammation.
Chronic inflammation helps us torecover, but it can also
influence the good inflammation too.

(53:07):
It can help us with acute inflammation.
That's a good type right here. If I were if we're gonna box,
box those into two different categories so we have a better.
Immune response. To stress like exercise, which
then. Leads to.
Improved muscle protein synthesis, for example,

(53:29):
mitochondrial Biogenesis, essentially the breakdown and
removal of damage to dysfunctional tissues, which is
an important part of inflammation, and then the
building of new tissues, which is adaptation to exercise.
That's how we adapt to exercise is tissues in our body.
The protein components of our tissues change and acute

(53:51):
inflammation is incredibly important for that.
So enhancing our microbiome lowers the chronic inflammation
which a lot of people are suffering from in our population
these days, just lead to all those metabolic health disorders
that we talked about, but makes us.
More sensitive to and. It can enhance the acute
inflammatory response for betterrecovery and adaptation to

(54:13):
exercise. Yeah, that connection is still
being explored. I can't tell you the exact
microbiome profile that's going to optimize that.
We don't know. But we know generally for the
vast majority of people, the more diverse, the more plentiful
are microbiome, the better thoseoutcomes are going to be.

(54:34):
Cool. And in the case of.
VO2 Max I know it's like there is a genetic component.
I think recently I was reading the sports gene book and they
we're saying that there is like very small subset of the
population that they tested and they had like superior VO2 Max
even though they were couch potatoes, they weren't active.
But for the most part, like whatwould you say would improve or

(54:57):
how can we increase our VO2 Max number one?
Thing is the train and. When when we're talking about a
high VO2 Max, you're right, thatis a very small subset of the
population that has excellent genes that are helping them out
tremendously, but it's those that are in the top.

(55:18):
Quartile. Of VO2 bags that tend to have
the best longevity outcomes and the biggest.
Component of that is exercise. And the second biggest that's
very supportive is nutrition. Now of course, we've got to
manage stress. Our sleep has got to be good,
right? It, it's multiple pillars here

(55:40):
and that's a big reason why VO2 Max is such a strong indicator
of longevity is, is it is an outcome of all of these
different lifestyle factors and a piece of our genetics as well.
So it's an indicator for all those things.
So it we do need to do some aerobic exercise, having some

(56:03):
strength exercise does it can improve our aerobic capacity,
especially if we're going from zero strength exercise to some
and then a diet that supports that.
And then part of that might be because of the enhancements in
the microbiome from our diet. It's not the only thing, far
from the only thing, but it is likely a contributor.
Cool. So.

(56:25):
When I'm doing my like track workouts, I'm creating an
anaerobic environment which helps improve the populations of
certain bacteria and I'm increasing my or supporting a
higher VO2 Max. So multiple benefits from hard
exercise Yeah, just just as a fun little tidbit here they're.

(56:45):
They actually did a study where they took Olympic athletes and
they took the microbiome of Olympic athletes and they put it
in rats or rodents, pardon me, it was in mice specifically and
and they saw a performance improvements immediately.
Were they looking at Marathon? Runners they.
Take it from marathon runners orelite marathoners.

(57:07):
I thought I read that one too. Call exactly who it was.
But I know that it was they wereat an Olympic level.
Huh. Well, so there's a link there.
Yeah, I know. I.
Get, because I work with a lot of people with, with IBS and
more severe GI issues and they're often told like not to
do any high intensity exercise. But I think the, the context of

(57:30):
it is important. Like there's things that you can
do to minimize the GI distress, like not doing it fasted, making
sure you're hydrated, having lowfat, low fiber and sometimes low
FODMAP before. But that's a good reminder too,
that like some hard exercise andthings that can help improve
your VO2 Max will have benefits on your longevity, but could
also be good for your microbiometoo.

(57:52):
So that's a good, good reminder there and good incentive when
you cause hard exercise is is tough to motivate yourself.
But I mean, you do see, you do see 50.
Percent lower rates of colon cancer and those who are meeting
exercise recommendations see 50%less Constipation as far as GI

(58:12):
symptoms. Go.
Obviously, we know. That that's, that's a little bit
different because exercise can can actually cause some GI
symptoms like diarrhea, gas employing certain cases, but
that's usually beyond the 150 minute recommendation.
Yeah. Exactly.
Cool. OK, so lots of great links.

(58:33):
So just to yeah, just to wrap itup, I guess we did mention some
tests today, the DEXA, the BOD POD and also VO2 Max testing.
Do you, yeah, would you recommend people consider those
tests or we have an earlier episode on like gut health
testing, but I feel like this isan important one in terms of
like longevity, overall health tests.

(58:55):
What are your thoughts? At the end of the day, our
strength. Is the reason that lean body?
Mass is. Connected with longevity higher.
Levels of muscle mass. The largest component of our
lean body mass. In almost all cases means more.

(59:20):
Strength. And more strength means being
able to function well into our older adult years and more
substrate, more metabolic utilization of nutrients when
we're moving. Larger muscles cost more to move
around. If somebody is really interested

(59:45):
and. Their data geek number geek like
me? Then yes, I recommend a body
composition scan and that way you.
Can track your changes, Lee Mass.
Over time as well, make sure that the plan you're
implementing or the training or nutrition wise is working and
you can quantify your changes. I'm not going to say it's a

(01:00:07):
must. If somebody is worried about
their body fat levels, they wantto know, am I at risk?
Well then perhaps having a DEXA scan and measuring their
visceral fat can provide some really good insights.
I do recommend that for some of my clients.
DO 2 Max test if people are up to it.
It's a great biomarker of longevity.

(01:00:29):
Like I mentioned, it is a tough test.
It's a maximal exhaustion test. It's going to bring you to the
point where you can't do any more of that activity.
But it's it's also helpful to quantify over time, I think if
somebody is looking to change these things.
And that's when it becomes most important is.

(01:00:50):
For. Implementing a change.
In our nutrition. Or exercise and we're working
hard. It can help to have these
metrics in place to quantify those changes over time and
ensure our efforts are working for us.
Cool. Yeah, I can't think of any other
tests. That I would recommend off the

(01:01:11):
bat, other than just a standard blood panel, having that checked
regularly, yeah. What about the grip strength?
Test. That's also.
Along the lines of. Muscle mass strength Grip
strength is is used in really large population studies to
assess strength because it is correlated with whole body

(01:01:33):
strength. Higher grip strength means in
most cases higher whole body strength, which in most cases
lower risk of disease and a longer life expectancy.
Right. Cool.
Well, I've. Had Yeah, I've done.
DEXA. Scans, it's my goal to do like
1A year just 'cause I'm like you, I like the numbers.
I don't want to see how things are changing over time.

(01:01:55):
And it's interesting to me just to see changes with nutrition
and training and all that. But I haven't done a VO2 Max
test yet, but I've been considering it and it might do
it. But like you said, it's it's a
tough, tough test. So, but it could be interesting.
I would definitely recommend it for you.
Yeah. We'll see, just partially for
the. Experience I.
Know I'm racing a 5K tomorrow so.

(01:02:16):
That'll be like probably similareffort, but be good to get the
numbers. Cool.
All right, Yeah, any. Final thoughts.
For today, Eric or anything, we didn't, we didn't chat about
that. You want to add, I think I'll
I'll summarize our. Points that we talked about,
sure. Some practical takeaways here #1

(01:02:38):
when it comes to the connection between microbiome, body
composition, and performance. Stay tuned.
It's a rapidly emerging area, but don't jump on any particular
marketing that you may see, especially for Sucklands, we do
need to look at where. This research is.

(01:02:58):
Coming from a lot of it is stillin rodents, a lot of it is in
what we call germ free rodents, which means that they're
essentially bred and raised so that they don't have any type of
microbiome. And that is a completely
different scenario than what US free living humans live in.
So be very skeptical of what's out there.

(01:03:20):
What we know right now to enhance our microbiome and gut
health are from what we talked about exercise regularly meet
that 150 minutes of moderate to vigorous activity in particular
aerobic activity and couple strength training training
sessions per week at. Least meet minimum fiber

(01:03:43):
recommendations. And slowly, slowly,
incrementally increase your fiber from there.
But there's certain conditions where we don't see an upper
limit yet. For example, colorectal cancer,
type 2 diabetes. We haven't found a point where
increasing fiber more doesn't result in a lower risk of those

(01:04:04):
diseases. So incrementally incriminating
our fiber to the point that we can tolerate more can be another
way to further optimize our health, include fermented foods.
I know I I. I highlighted being skeptical of
probiotic supplements. It is very different from

(01:04:25):
fermented foods. These types of lactic acid
bacteria extremely low risk, especially when you're they're
provided in this this diversity.That you get from the.
Different strains from the foodsalong with the prebiotics and
postbiotics like metabolites of them and all the other nutrients

(01:04:45):
contained within that food. We know that these have benefits
to add to the diversity of the diet or the diversity of our
microbiome. And lastly, having that diet
diversity like you're talking about including a variety of
different fruits and vegetables,trying out some some new
vegetables from here and from time to time different types of
beans, different types of whole grains to add more diversity.

(01:05:10):
When it comes to performance andbody composition, it likely
helps and improving our performance like the microbiome,
enhancing our microbiome likely helps and enhancing our
performance. Body composition also works in
the other direction to help our microbiome.
Yeah. There's always tends to be a lot

(01:05:30):
of. Overlap in the strategies for
different like ways to support our health, like body
composition or general longevityenergy coming down to the basics
like good sleep, getting good quality nutrient dense foods,
exercising like, and that's why I always say to make sure
you're, you know, focusing on those things first before we get
into, you know, unique fancy supplements or all these like

(01:05:52):
nuanced strategies. That's, there's a lot of good,
like foundational things too that we need to, to work on as
well. And yeah, the fermented foods,
we didn't mention that, but that's, that's a big one that I
recommend. And probably a lot of clients
listening, my clients will be like nodding their heads because
they know I talk about it a lot.So good one to include too.

(01:06:13):
I always personally say startingwith at least.
Two servings per day, yeah. Yeah, yeah, for at least that,
that. Half a cup to 3/4 of a cup of
these fermented foods and past rice.
Fermented foods, Sauerkraut, kimchi.
Yogurt kefir, Yeah. Miso cool so how can people?

(01:06:36):
Get in touch with you. If they're listening and maybe
they're interested in coaching or Canyon Ranch, yeah, if you
ever if you come to Canyon Ranch, especially the.
Lennox location Berkshire, Massachusetts please ask for me.
Tell them that you heard this podcast.
I'd love to meet you. Cool.
You can also find me online. Please give me a follow up at

(01:06:58):
Eric dot Williamson dot PhD on Instagram and or TikTok.
And if you're interested in consulting services, my website
is unlocked fitnessandnutrition.com.
Cool. All right.
Well, thanks. Eric, that's been a.
Very interesting chat. I think I I learned a few new

(01:07:19):
things today that I didn't I didn't know either.
So thanks for for sharing all your knowledge with us.
My pleasure, I really appreciatethe chat.
Thanks for having me. That's a wrap for today's
episode. Thank you so much for listening.
And being a part of our community here.
If the Gut Fit Nutrition podcastis giving you value, helped your
digestion and fitness, made you rethink how you approach your

(01:07:41):
gut health, consider leaving a review on Apple, Spotify, or
wherever you're getting your podcasts.
If you have questions for my listener Q&A.
Episodes. You can submit them as a comment
on this episode or send me an e-mail at lee@leemorado.com.
For more digestible. IBS.
Gut health and. Fitness tips Be sure to follow
me on Instagram at Lemurato under score Rd. and to apply for

(01:08:03):
coaching, shop the resource suite or grab a freebie, visit
gutfitnutrition.com. Thanks for tuning in.
We'll be in touch soon.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}16: Gut Check: Is Your Microbiome Holding Back Your Fitness Goals? With Eric Williamson PhD, RD, MSc

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

16: Gut Check: Is Your Microbiome Holding Back Your Fitness Goals? With Eric Williamson PhD, RD, MSc

Stuff You Should Know