July 3, 2025 • 49 mins
We journey into the heart of human connection with a connection coach Atlas Taylor whose work focuses on guiding people back to themselves—and to one another in ways that heal rather than harm. While some might label her a relationship coach, she intentionally uses the word connection to describe her work, because connection is something far more foundational. It’s not just about romantic partnerships it's about the invisible threads that bind us from the moment we are born. And yet, despite being wired for connection, so few of us are ever taught how to relate in conscious, healthy ways.
This episode explores the truth that while much of our trauma happens in relationship, our deepest healing also takes place through relationship. Our guest shares how her role as a coach is to help others recognize and repair those relational wounds starting with the most important connection of all: the one we have with ourselves.
But this conversation doesn’t shy away from the shadows. We dive into the difficult but necessary topic of spiritual narcissism a form of manipulation that is often cloaked in light, love, and “higher consciousness.” Our guest shares her own experience with a powerful woman who embodied both beauty and strength, but who ultimately used those traits to manipulate others into handing over their power under the guise of spiritual leadership.
We explore how people with narcissistic traits can be incredibly magnetic how they often present as wise, enlightened, or deeply inspiring. And yet, underneath that spiritual facade, there can be a subtle but devastating form of control that leaves others feeling confused, invalidated, and disempowered. Our guest offers a compassionate yet clear-eyed look at this dynamic, and how we can begin to untangle ourselves from it by learning to trust our inner knowing and reclaim our personal sovereignty.
Whether you've encountered toxic power structures masked as healing communities, or are simply seeking to understand how to build authentic relationships rooted in integrity, this episode will resonate deeply.
Atlas Taylor:
Instagram: @atlasflow
Connect with me at:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Elizabeth Vajello (00:00):
Welcome to the Holistic Self-Love podcast.
I'm Elizabeth Vajero, a lifecoach here to help you build
healthy habits for real change.
Join me as we explore practicalways to reduce your stress, find
balance, and feel your bestevery day.
Elizabeth (00:17):
Welcome to the Holistic Self-Love podcast,
where we love to interviewpeople that will help us
transform our hearts, minds, andsouls.
And today we have a very, veryeyeopening.
interview today with AtlasTaylor.
Um, Atlas is a relationshipcoach, a connection coach.
Um, she also does a lot ofmovement.
(00:40):
She's an author of a beautifulpoetry book, but one of my
favorite things about her andwhat connected me to her is I
heard her say a phrase, whichwas Spiritual narcissism, which
is of today's episode.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Um, funny story.
Somebody send me something thatyou posted.
(01:00):
And I was, had you living in mybrain for like a month now.
Maybe a little bit longer.
I have referenced your post.
I've talked about it.
And then I decided to reach outto you.
Mm-hmm.
And you answered, and we live inthe same state.
Yeah.
And you live 40 minutes away.
that's true.
And You are gracious enough tocome.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Atlas (01:21):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
Elizabeth (01:23):
That's honor.
You're gone.
I'm really excited to meet youand I love anytime I can share
my space and like.
Have people in my space.
So One, what is a connectioncoach?
Because I feel like a lot ofpeople don't even understand
what that is.
Yeah.
And how did you become one?
Atlas (01:38):
Yeah.
So what is a connection coach?
Um, another way you can totallysay you just did is a
relationship coach.
Um, I like the word connectionbecause I think it facilitates a
different emotional response,which I appreciate.
Um, I think that connection issomething that we all crave.
Yeah.
And that we're all, you know,born into.
And it's a really innate part ofbeing human.
(02:01):
And I feel like we have noeducation around how to be in
connection in a healthy way.
And so,
Elizabeth (02:07):
Fully agree.
Atlas (02:08):
yeah.
Elizabeth (02:09):
This was heartbreaking.
Atlas (02:10):
Yeah.
I mean, connection is somethingthat we're all in from the
moment that we're born and.
I think that most of the traumathat we face happens in
relationship and most of thehealing that we experience also
happens in relationship.
Um, and so yeah, as a connectioncoach, my job is really to
support people in connecting tothemselves and others in ways
(02:36):
that heal instead of harm.
Elizabeth (02:38):
Oh, that's so beautiful.
And when you.
say like relationships.
It could this be for anyrelationship?
Atlas (02:44):
It really can.
Yeah, Like I think a lot of thetime when we show up in
relationship in one area of ourlife, one way, we show up that
way in a lot of otherrelationships too, whether it be
our relationship to food orsubstances or sleep, or our kids
or our partners, or our parents.
Um, when we work on onerelationship, it often ripples
into all of the otherrelationships that we have.
Elizabeth (03:04):
Oh my God, I've never heard it be described like that.
and it's funny because I.
As a life coach and a retreathost, I'm very big on like,
well, what is our love language?
Mm-hmm.
Like, Can we learn our lovelanguage?
Because we're probably speakingdifferent languages.
But even with my child, I.
I know her love language and sheknows mine, and we're very
respectful of that.
(03:25):
And I didn't even realize that.
I like what you just said.
It's like, oh yeah, I just thinkshe's like one of the loves of
my life.
So I treat it very much like oneof the most sacred relationships
that I have.
I I'm very careful.
We just recorded a podcast wherewe were talking about, um, once
I realized what she wasdiagnosed with and that her
(03:45):
brain worked a little differentthan mine, it was like, well,
how do I dive into learningabout her brain because I need
to learn how to communicate withher.
So I love that you said thatbecause when people come to me,
and I don't know if you get thisas a coach, sometimes it's
issues with their boss, alwayswith their mother and their
father.
Mm-hmm.
Always who are always selfparenting.
After, you know, God bless them,they, they did what they could.
(04:08):
tell me a little bit about whydid you become a connection
coach?
Like what led you down thispath?
Atlas (04:14):
it's something I could talk about for so long, but to
simplify it, I feel like I'vealways been a relationally
oriented person.
Mm.
And as cliche as it sounds, I dothink it was a case of turning
my pain into my passion.
Mm-hmm.
I think.
Like I mentioned earlier, a lotof the trauma or pain that I
experienced happened in arelationship, and it sent me on
(04:35):
this journey hunting for answersof like, why, why do we end up
in relationships that hurt us?
And specifically like patterns.
Why patterns?
Because for me, like from myfirst relationship, I, I had my
first boyfriend when I was
Elizabeth (04:48):
was 12.
I mean, he was three.
Okay.
Atlas (04:49):
older than me.
Yeah.
Um, and.
It was a really turbulentrelationship and that kinda like
set the stage for this pattern,um, that I ended up playing out
for much of my young adulthoodand even into my adulthood.
Um, and it was like even when Iwent to therapy and started
understanding the roots of thepatterns, I was still playing
(05:10):
them out.
And so, um, I started to getlike really passionate about
this question of like, why do weplay out these patterns even
when we're aware of where theycome from and how do we take our
power back?
And change the pattern.
And that's where I feel liketherapy is really good at
getting to like the history andthe root of where it started.
But coaching, you know this as acoach, it's a little bit more
(05:31):
like goal oriented.
Elizabeth (05:32):
Yeah, like now what?
Like we can, you guys, if youwant, you can pitch a tent and
live in your trauma, but likewe're here to like move
Atlas (05:39):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And I discovered, um, a mancalled Mark Groves.
He has a podcast as well.
He's a connection specialist, hecalls himself.
And so he was the one that gaveme a window into like what that
even was.
Um,'cause at first I wasconsidering going back to school
and becoming a therapist, but Ireally don't thrive in the
school environment here.
And so becoming a certifiedcoach was another way to step
(06:03):
into the psychology world andwork with people on
relationships without going backto school.
Elizabeth (06:07):
I've met therapists that are like, I wish I would've
Know what a coach was.
Mm-hmm.
Because they're.
So limited, you know?
Right, Yeah, yeah.
Legally, they're so limited, Andlike for me, like I get to go on
retreat with my clients and Iget to see it on a much deeper
level, and we get to have all ofthese exp experience.
Like you can't go on a retreatwith your therapist.
No.
Atlas (06:24):
No, there's a lot more boundaries you have to have with
a licensed therapist, and thatis something I love about being
a certified coach instead, isyou can build a little bit more
of a personal relationship withthem.
Um, and kind of like personalizeyour practice a little bit more.
A million percent, which isreally nice.
Elizabeth (06:37):
Yeah.
I, I learned very early on, likeyou know, I think when I first
started like six years ago, Iwas like, I would have these
outlines and I'm like, this iswhat we're gonna work on.
Mm-hmm.
And then that would go out thedoor and I completely learned,
oh no, I have to meet peoplewhere they are.
Atlas (06:51):
can't prepare for a session.
No.
Elizabeth (06:53):
Oh God No, Yeah, you can meditate and ask the
universe, put the in you.
But there is no like,'causethey'll, they'll, there's always
something else going on.
Then I learned to maybe, um.
I go through a lot of like selfdiscovery questions.
Mm-hmm.
That helps.
But I always allow them, Ialways say it's 15 minutes.
It usually goes more, but it'slike what you said, as humans,
(07:16):
we need connection.
And a lot of my clients justneed to feel that somebody is
listening to them and holdingspace for them.
Yep.
And I love to be that person.
Yeah.
And then obviously I will holdhim accountable.
and and stuff like that.
But I'm really glad I didn'tpick to be a therapist either.
Me too.
Like I really enjoy coaching.
Me too.
I really feel satisfied in whatI'm doing and I could be like,
(07:37):
you know, a complete hippie andbe like, okay, we're gonna stop
and do some sound bowls and Ithink you're chakra and you
know, and they get it and it'sso fun.
Yeah.
I mean, I have an experience, Ihave a set like this on the
retreat property and there'salways one That gets a little
weird in every retreat and it'snever the same one.
Yeah.
And you know, I, my business iswith my brother, it's a family
(08:00):
run business, and he didn'treally, he's, he was raised,
born again Christian.
We have different moms.
He didn't really get it.
And then I started doing work onhim, and then I started telling
him like, no, no, no.
This one is clogged.
Yeah.
And it would be,'causecollectively my group was going
through something.
Yeah.
And it's always like that.
Yeah.
And that's why I love Being acoach and I love doing retreats.
(08:20):
Mm-hmm.
Um, so I love talking to othercoaches because people don't get
It Yeah.
People also don't get like howheavy our work is.
Atlas (08:28):
It can be very intense.
It can be very intense.
I try to have practices aroundholding myself after my sessions
and like letting things go andnot taking too much on and all
of that.
Elizabeth (08:40):
Yeah.
So when you walked in you werelike, oh, I love your space.
and like this is a workspace.
But it's also a place where likewhen I get to those stairs over
there, I Do a closing ceremonybecause this, none of this this
is here.
Yeah.
It does not belong to my family.
It doesn't belong to my partner.
I also, another thing that Ilearned, I wanna say about three
(09:02):
or four years ago, is not takingcalls when I'm not at cap.
Like when I'm at capacity and Ican't, because I would then
become resentful.
Or the phone call would thenmake me cry.
'cause like you said, you'vebeen really into this your whole
life.
You just didn't really know.
Yeah.
I've been a life coach my entire
Atlas (09:20):
Totally.
Elizabeth (09:21):
And people come to us for that.
Yeah.
My daughter, um, constantlyjokes that like I can be in any
country.
We were in Brazil and I don'tspeak Portuguese, and someone
started crying to me.
Yeah.
And it's a very regular thing.
Yeah.
I have to be very careful of whoI open up to.
Atlas (09:34):
Yeah.
Elizabeth (09:35):
Yeah.
So I can imagine that's what yougo through relations at.
Atlas (09:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, when I became certified,all my friends were like, wow,
you've been doing this for allof us for free for years, and
it's really cool and rewardingto turn something that's like so
innate and so passionate, um,into work.
Yeah, it's really cool.
I.
Elizabeth (09:52):
Okay.
So talk to me about, I wannatalk about spiritual narcissism.
Yes.
I mentioned it in anotherpodcast that I have never even
really said the word narcissistin my socials.
If you go on my social media,it's very light and fluffy.
I don't talk about it.
Um, I went through, uh, a wholeprocess when I wanted to make
(10:13):
this podcast with a really greatfriend of mine.
And she said, you help womenwith narcissistic abuse.
Mm-hmm.
And I was like, I know, but Inever talk about it.
And she's like, well, maybe youshould.
And she was the one who sent meyour post.
Oh, she's the reason you'rehere.
Go.
Yeah.
So explain to me a little bitwhat you think it means.
Yeah.
And then I'll tell you how ittouched me.
Atlas (10:32):
totally.
I mean, so spiritual narcissism,you first just have to
understand what narcissism is,um, which I feel like.
Something that isn't talkedabout enough is that narcissism
is often this maladaptive copingstrategy that someone learned in
order to protect themselves.
Yeah.
They're often really sensitivepeople with actually really low
(10:53):
self-esteem.
Mm-hmm.
And so in order to cope, theyhave this grandiose, self
inflated, um, ego.
Yeah.
And it's.
Elizabeth (11:03):
I'm very self-serving.
Atlas (11:04):
Yes.
And, And, it's, it's verymanipulative.
It can be very confusing to bein a relationship with them.
It can be very hot and cold, andthere's this oscillation of
having to like comfort themthrough their smallness and
victim hood.
And then also having to be thisconstant source of like,
validation for them in theirlike grandiose nature too.
Um,
Elizabeth (11:21):
and being their victim.
Because
Atlas (11:23):
totally
Elizabeth (11:23):
a narcissist is a bully and a victim.
Atlas (11:25):
they can't be one, they'll switch to the other And
it's a very disorienting feeling
Elizabeth (11:30):
So as, as the person who's receiving this abuse,
you're literally, it's like, I,I kind of tell my clients this.
It's like the narcissist willthrow you off the building and
then be waiting to
Atlas (11:39):
catch you at the bottom to, to to save you.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
and to make you think that youneed them.
To be saved and yeah, it's thisvery discombobulating experience
and something that narcissistsare really, really good at.
Is using whatever contextthey're in to their advantage.
So you take a spiritualnarcissist and what they will do
is they will take the lingo inthe spiritual community and the
(12:02):
archetypes in the spiritualcommunity, and they will use
that to assist theirmanipulation.
So if a narcissist is gonnasexually assault someone in the
spiritual community, they mightuse like tantric language or
shamanic language, like usingthe spiritual context in order
to assist them in theirmanipulation.
Well, because they're very goodat, um, behaving like they're
(12:26):
victim so that they seem likechameleon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're a chameleon.
Like, you know, I'm very carefulwith my clients when they're
like, I think he's my soulmate.
And it's like week two.
And, you know, uh, I'd love tohear your experience if you've
ever had a narcissist in yourlife, because I think I told you
this yesterday, once I actuallyrealized what a narcissist was,
(12:47):
I was like, holy, I have beenliving amongst them my whole
entire life.
yeah, With spiritual narcissismin particular.
Uh, it's so interesting and it,it go, I've been around it since
early childhood as well.
Um, but in more recent years,the spiritual narcissism that I
(13:08):
see is usually someone in thecommunity that is incredibly
charismatic, attractive,successful.
um, I.
Often in a leadership role.
Mm-hmm.
And really kind of abusing thepower that they have, whether it
be their looks, their money,their social status, um, to
assert power over other people.
Yeah.
Um, And sometimes that's throughcosing them into like weird
(13:32):
spiritual experiences.
Sometimes it's coercing theminto relationship.
Sometimes it's, you know,whatever it is they're asking
other people to give their poweraway.
Um, I could go into like acouple stories if you want.
Elizabeth (13:46):
Stir, we would love to hear it.
Atlas (13:47):
Yeah.
Um hmm.
So.
I live in Colorado.
Yeah.
Like we know that there's a, a,a spiritual community here.
One story I have is, is movinginto a home where everyone was
equal renters.
But for some reason there wasone person in the home that was
looked at as like the leader inthe house.
(14:07):
And at first that seemed likehealthy and normal and fine.
Um, but the thing that wasreally strange was she had these
spiritual practices and Shestarted asserting that people
needed to participate in thosepractices where she was a leader
or she was gonna kick them outof the house.
Elizabeth (14:25):
Oh, that sounds like a cult.
Atlas (14:26):
Yes, very cultish.
Elizabeth (14:28):
And you're just like looking for somewhere to rent.
Atlas (14:29):
So I was living out of my van at the time and moved in
because it was COVID, so it waslike shelter in place.
And I had a couple friends thatlived.
Elizabeth (14:35):
Again.
So now she has even more powerbecause you guys have nowhere to
go.
Yes.
'cause we're in the middle of apandemic.
Atlas (14:41):
she, you know, another thing that I think people don't
talk about enough is there'soften beautiful parts of people
that have narcissistic traits aswell.
Yeah.
And so you can be really pulledin by the beautiful parts of
them.
Um, she was a beautiful,powerful woman.
Um, and I think that she usedthat power to manipulate people
into handing their power over toher.
(15:02):
Yeah.
And going through these reallystrange, um.
Spiritual, sexual, um, druginduced sometimes experiences.
Wow.
Um, and I also saw people bewilling to do this, to be her
partner.
Um, okay.
Or to be her friend, you know,and so it, it, was this really
weird, one of the things shesaid to me at one point was, I
(15:25):
am the gatekeeper to the uncleanworld.
Elizabeth (15:26):
Oh my God.
Okay, Atlas.
This is full-blown like cultstuff.
Atlas (15:30):
Yeah.
I I agree.
Yeah.
And this is like very normalizedin like the spiritual community
Elizabeth (15:35):
Very normal.
Atlas (15:36):
Denver and Boulder.
there are, there are lots ofgroups of people with
facilitators that are notequipped to actually hold a safe
space mm-hmm.
That are involving drugs thatare, um, using manipulation.
And the the sad thing is, is ittakes advantage too of like
people that are in Vulnerableplaces
Elizabeth (15:56):
and desperate Connection.
Yes.
And desperate native, believingin
Atlas (15:59):
Exactly.
Elizabeth (16:00):
I feel like, I do love Colorado for so many
reasons, and I did become veryspiritual and into wellness.
I've always, you know, knownwhat my higher power was and,
but it's almost like I'm onguard here.
Me too, in Miami, it's a littledifferent In Miami, it's very
tantra orientated.
You, you know, growing up inMiami, I know what a pervert
(16:20):
looks like.
Sure.
Like, oh yeah.
but I, I was just telling, oh, Iwas telling the facilitator who
I'm doing her retreat in acouple weeks.
I love her so much because I.
One day I said, you know, theonly guru I have is Jesus
Christ.
And she said, oh my God, yes.
And I go, and I'm not knockingon people's door trying to sell
'em Jesus.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you either believe or youdon't.
But I'm always very thrown offby that in this community of
(16:44):
like, you know, my experiencewas not as intense.
Um, it was just this past yearin 2024 when I went to get
certified, uh, as a yogateacher.
And I've actually never spokenabout this.
Um, and.
The yoga teacher that was doingit was, it wasn't, I, I don't, I
almost, oh, And then this iswhere I think like, these people
(17:07):
are gonna listen to it and I gointo, like,
Atlas (17:09):
have that feeling too.
Elizabeth (17:09):
I go into like the victim mode of like, I don't
wanna piss off my abuser.
Yeah.
But, um, I don't think he wassmart enough to start a cult.
To be honest.
Um, he kind of looked like a,he, he kind of started to
resemble a yoga teacher that'slike strung out at the end of
their career.
He lived here.
he was from Miami.
Yeah.
Um.
Right away it was like, there isno cannabis, there is no coffee,
(17:33):
there is no this.
Meanwhile the whole propertysmelled like cannabis.
I'm sober, but I do not likeinjustice.
So one of my first questions waslike, so quick question.
So the whole property smellslike, cannabis like, but we're
not allowed to smoke.
And he is like, yeah, becauseI'm not doing my yoga teacher
training.
So I immediately, as somebodywho's been part of narcissistic
abuse, I went into how do I makehim happy?
(17:56):
How do I like.
Keep him happy during classbecause I need to pass.
Because I just spend a lot ofmoney.
I'm 20 days away from my child,my partner, my business, um, my
practice, how and how can I makethis person happy to get
Certified, and I felt like hewas waving it Like over our
heads.
At one point he stopped anentire class and he made us take
(18:19):
out our cell phones and he said,now I need you all to write a
review and you can't writeanything bad because this is
Karma Yoga and somebody wasn'twriting a review.
and he goes.
You what happened to your phone?
And then I think he was kind ofafraid of me too.
He didn't really approach me toomuch because I'm very outspoken.
Um, he went and knocked on mybrother's door'cause me and my
(18:40):
brother did this together.
And he said, why didn't youwrite a review before that?
He was trying to give himcannabis and kind of trying to,
and it, it was, it was very muchlike I would see him yelling at
his staff, which is somebody whoemploys people.
I think that's disgusting.
And then I would see him go.
this is embarrassing.
They don't know what they'redoing.
They're making me look bad.
(19:02):
Yeah.
And I was just recognizing mybody, how my body felt and my
body felt like when I was inthose toxic relationships.
And it was so, that's why I feellike I was so touched by when I,
what I read, because you'reabsolutely right.
It's happening.
I'm also like so obsessed withcults.
Yeah.
Like I will watch all of it.
(19:23):
Did you see Mother God
Atlas (19:25):
Yeah.
Oh my
Elizabeth (19:26):
Yeah.
And it like happened here?
First of all, why did I watch itbefore I was not sleeping.
Yeah.
It's just weird.
But I, I always think like, howdid somebody get sucked into
this?
And honestly, I want you toexplain a little bit how
narcissists suck us in because Ialways thought I was really
powerful and I wasn't able toget sucked in.
(19:46):
And I have been over and over.
Atlas (19:48):
This is like such an important question and I love
that you bring it up because Ido think that we all think that
we are not susceptible.
Yeah.
And that's one of the thingsthat make.
us more susceptible.
So like really part of it isjust like being willing to, to
acknowledge that we're allsusceptible to manipulation.
We all have an Achilles heel.
Yeah.
And narcissists are brilliant atfinding it and using it against
(20:11):
us.
Um, I also love that you talkedabout the way that your body
felt.
This is like a huge, huge, hugefocus of my coaching practice
too.
And it sounds so simple, butit's like literally life
changing for you to buildrelationship with your nervous
system.
Mm-hmm.
And the cues that your bodysends you, because your body
will know what's up far beforeyour brain does.
And so like, yeah, really,really just learning the body
(20:32):
cues as far as how narcissistsrope you in.
I really think that they are.
trained to recognize the kind ofperson that will want to take
care of them.
Yes.
And I'm that kind of person youmight be as well.
Elizabeth (20:50):
Oh yeah.
'cause we're healers, we wannatake care of
Atlas (20:52):
Totally.
And we're also female bodied, sowe were conditioned from birth
to be nurturers.
Yep.
Um, the example I got from mymother was, forgive at all
costs.
You prove you're a good personthrough Wow.
Through taking it and continuingto show up, you know, and so.
Elizabeth (21:08):
So you're the perfect victim.
Atlas (21:08):
I'm the perfect victim.
I am the perfect trauma bond fora narcissist because both the
narcissist and me want therelationship to be all about
him.
Elizabeth (21:17):
Yeah.
You know, and the and mostfemale energy is like
Atlas (21:20):
A lot of it is'cause we're socialized to be that way
and, and you know, I think thatmen are statistically more
likely to become narcissistsbecause they're not socialized
to be in touch with empathy likewe are.
Elizabeth (21:32):
Just to be clear, there are a lot of female
narcissists.
There There are who have metthem and they have different
traits, but they're also veryscary.
I mean, you literally Atlas, youalmost got sucked in.
Oh my God.
I need to know how you got outof this.
Atlas (21:45):
You know, I, things had escalated to the point where she
was telling people that theyneeded to go through her rebirth
process in order to stay at thehouse.
And that's when I said, I'm out.
This is cultish.
And what really scared me atthat point was I was looking at
my other friends in the housegoing, this is crazy, right?
I.
Elizabeth (21:59):
Like, you guys, are we all
Atlas (22:01):
Same.
thing.
We're all saying the same thing,right?
And one person saw what I wasseeing and we both left the
house.
Elizabeth (22:05):
So wait, the other ones
Atlas (22:06):
A lot of people were okay with it.
And this was ki kind of one ofthose like really sobering
moments for me of how we do allfall for it and how we're all
willing to make sacrifices forconnection.
Elizabeth (22:19):
For connection.
And you know what it goes backto is all those women that get
catfished, all those men that goto all these countries to find
love because love is so, it's ahuman need, and that's all we're
looking
Atlas (22:32):
Totally.
And we're in an unprecedentedtime of disconnection.
Yeah.
Where we're all like so isolatedand especially in the us so
individualistic and so yeah, ifyou're living in a house with a
really good friend who tells youthat you have to do this thing
in order to continue living withher, I.
Elizabeth (22:47):
order to continue living.
Yeah, that is such a whole thereat the house.
Totally in the middle of apandemic.
Atlas (22:53):
And it was so weird because she was just a renter
like them.
It wasn't like she owned thehouse.
So I was, I was, oh my God.
It really tripped me out on howthese power dynamics happen.
Um, and I was just much lessemotionally involved with her.
So I think it was easier for meto kind of, um, see through it
and step out.
And I had the van that I couldmove back into.
Elizabeth (23:11):
But wait, let's talk about that real quick.
The emotional.
Apart, like you talked about howwe are all susceptible.
So what the narcissist does isit mirror, he mirrors your
behavior or they mirror yourbehavior, right?
Then they want you to be asvulnerable as possible because
they're collecting all of this.
So you're like, oh my God,they're holding space for me.
They wanna know all about me.
Now you're in there, and correctme if I'm wrong, but like you
(23:33):
fall in love with the performer,the person that was love bombing
you in the beginning.
So then when they start tochange, what happens?
Your brain goes, wait, no, he'sstill a good person.
A lot of things I deal with as acoach, um, with the after,
because I deal with a lot of theafter is it's amazing how you
can just forget all of the badstuff.
Mm-hmm.
And only remember the good.
(23:54):
And it's like you said, we justwant this connection and we want
it so bad that we hold on tolike, I don't know if the
audience knows what, um.
Bread crumbing is, but that'slike in the beginning, they give
you everything, right?
So you're the most important.
Um, The perfect example wasbefore this partner who is an
angel sent from heaven.
God bless him.
(24:15):
I don't know how I, what I didto deserve him.
I was in a narcissisticrelationship.
Um.
very short lived.
I don't think he was good at it.
And um, in the beginning it waslike, you're so incredible and I
love what you do, and oh my God,look how you work out.
And then at the end he wouldwalk by and make fun of me
working out.
Yeah.
And it was because you're right,they're so insecure.
(24:36):
they don't have the discipline.
They don't take care ofthemselves.
And, um, at the, at the very endof the relationship, I was okay
with like, if he even said, oh,that's a nice outfit.
He wasn't complimenting me.
He wasn't throwing flowers onme, telling me how beautiful he
was.
But it took so much to getthere.
Yeah, And I think me and youtalked a little bit about that
(24:57):
yesterday, the cycle of like Iare, I was in a situation where
I needed to get in a fight withhim.
So that then there would be alittle bit of fawning over me so
he would stay and I was gettinghigh from it.
And as an addict, I was like, Iam a, I remember thinking, I am
addicted to this person.
Yep.
Because again, going back to mybody, it felt, I felt that high.
(25:20):
like I just had to go through areally crazy fight.
But after that, he's gonna showme some sort of affection.
Atlas (25:26):
Totally.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, getting out of my lastnarcissistic relationship, I
remember approaching it like anaddict with my therapist of
like, I'm addicted to thisperson and I'm addicted to this
cycle because what happens?
What happens?
is There's that rupture and thenyou go through this like hot and
heavy repair that's like yeah,so emotionally charged and
intense and it hurts.
(25:46):
And then you have that high ofreconnection.
You usually have hot sex like,and it's the cortisol and the
dopamine and you know, all ofthe brain chemicals that make
you feel like accomplished.
And we worked through it and nowwe're more connected than ever.
We're stronger, and it is soaddicting.
Elizabeth (26:01):
And then they tell you that like it's because of
you that they're who they are.
They go
Atlas (26:05):
No, exactly what to say.
Yeah, and that's where youtouched on it.
Like they learn so much aboutyou and they collect all this
information that they can thenuse against you.
Elizabeth (26:13):
yeah.
Um, I did a lot of intense EDMRand it was, uh,'cause I had like
a very crazy accident.
Um, But I was working throughthis and I, that's when I
realized, oh my God, I was in anarcissistic relationship and I
remember I had two therapists atthe time.
I was working with two differenttherapists because I was so
scared I was gonna relapse.
So I put myself in addictiontherapy and then my regular
(26:34):
trauma therapist and I.
Like you just said, I took itlike an addiction.
So what is the first thing Ineed to do?
I need to be clean for 30 days.
Yep.
So I literally in my phone hadhow many days I had been no
contact.
Yeah.
And, um, I would do this thingto rewire my brain where when I
would have a good memory, Iwould immediately remind myself
(26:55):
of the last horrible thing hesaid to me.
Yeah.
Or you know, um, I remember oneof the last communications that
we had.
He said, well, I'm gonna go toColorado this weekend and pick
up my stuff.
And the old me in that toxicrelationship would've been like,
oh God.
Yeah, because, and I justimmediately remember going, I
already mailed it to you, and Ihad it, And I got in the car and
(27:16):
mailed it all to him because Iwas like, I need to cut all
ties, like no more Netflix,Spotify, nothing with this
person.
Yeah.
Ever.
Again, because this is like,this isn't me.
I didn't feel like
Atlas (27:27):
Totally.
Elizabeth (27:28):
I remember when I, so my partner.
and, and I'm, maybe one day I'lldo a whole podcast about this
because he really is just, Idon't know how he came into my
life.
He was my first boyfriend everwhen we were 13 years old.
My first kiss, my firsthandhold.
And um, I remember telling himin the beginning of our
relationship, like, I am a mess.
(27:50):
Like I am such, I'm in fuckingpieces.
So here's the good news.
You get to have me when I'mgonna rebuild myself.
it's gonna be such a long road.
So I just want you to know thatI'm like broken, but I'm
promised I'm gonna be betterthan ever.
And like how am I gettinggoosebumps?
And he reminds me of thatsometimes where he's just like,
do you remember who you werefour years ago?
(28:10):
Like you were a complete fuckingmess.
Also, I would like to say fouryears ago, I was already almost
almost five years into myspiritual wellness journey, and
the universe just like plantedme and made me start from the
beginning.
Yeah.
And it was that narcissist thatreally just broke me, you know?
(28:32):
But yeah, it's an addiction.
Um, I reference Mel Robbins alot because it's just my
favorite podcast ever.
She did the cutest podcast withher daughter going through a
breakup.
And that's how the therapistsaid it.
It's 30 days, no contact.
Yeah.
It's like an addiction.
There's something that our bodyhas when we hear their voice,
when we see them.
(28:52):
You know, I have a a 15 goingon, 16-year-old, and it's funny
to hear them talk or I just needclosure.
Atlas (29:00):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, totally.
Elizabeth (29:01):
You don't need closure.
Atlas (29:02):
mean, they talk about in addiction how there's no
moderation in addiction.
It's like you can't have alittle bit and stay clean.
Elizabeth (29:07):
Oh no, I can't.
Atlas (29:08):
And I experienced that in my, um, last narcissistic
relationship where it was like Ikept telling myself, well, maybe
I can be his friend.
Maybe I can see him just once.
Elizabeth (29:16):
Wow, You tried to be his friend.
Atlas (29:18):
Yeah.
At first.
Which I think was a delusional,it was like I was still in this.
Thought pattern that like hecould heal and change and grow
and that if I just could likestick around through a chapter
being his friend, maybe it wouldstill work out in the end or
whatever.
It's some form of delusion.
Elizabeth (29:35):
Of course,'cause we're fixers, we think we can
fix them.
It's something like 94% ofnarcissists never get help
because you have to.
Recognize that you have aproblem to get help, and they're
not capable of
Atlas (29:49):
That's why like most psychologists will say that
narcissism is one of the onlythings that like there really
isn't a recovery plan forbecause it's like entrenched in
the definition of narcissismthat they're gonna be resistant
to help or to acknowledging thatthey have a problem at all.
Elizabeth (30:04):
I wanna be so open when I see people on TikTok,
like I'm a recoveringnarcissist.
Atlas (30:09):
I'm like, no, you're not.
Elizabeth (30:09):
But sir, you're on TikTok talking about it.
Glorifying Yep.
Your horrible behavior.
Atlas (30:15):
Yeah, Yeah,
Elizabeth (30:17):
so, and, and I did, I did witness that once in my life
with a client where thenarcissist, um, went and got
diagnosed, but it was forself-serving purposes.
Mm.
It was for, feel sorry for
Atlas (30:29):
yeah, And that's a whole nother.
Thing happening in society rightnow is like everyone wants a
diagnosis.
Elizabeth (30:34):
Yep.
Yeah.
It's really interesting.
And I think, um, that'simportant to talk about too, is
that not everybody is anarcissist.
We can have narcissistictendencies.
Atlas (30:43):
Yes.
I think that unfortunately, it'sactually a very trendy word.
Mm-hmm.
And I see like way too oftenthat like.
you know, After a breakup, uh.
a lover becomes a narcissistYeah.
because you're just like mad atthem and it's like someone is
not a narcissist because theybroke up with you, or because
they hurt your feelings orbecause you don't like how they
handle conflict.
Narcissism is like a real mentalhealth disorder that needs to be
diagnosed by a doctor.
(31:04):
Yeah.
You know?
Um, and yeah, look into the, thelist of what narcissism looks
like and you can acknowledge ifsomeone is embodying those
tendencies.
Elizabeth (31:14):
So what would be like, I know there's sometimes
like seven, but could you giveus like five maybe things to
look out for?
Yeah.
When you think somebody is anarcissist.
And remember, we are not here todiagnose anybody.
Yeah.
We are not therapist.
Yes.
We are just having a friendlyconversation.
Yeah.
Between two coaches,
Atlas (31:31):
Absolutely.
Um, Yeah.
I think one of the biggest onesis that oscillation between, um,
inflated ego and victimhood.
Elizabeth (31:40):
The bully and of the victim.
Yes.
The bully and the
Atlas (31:42):
Exactly.
Um, yeah, I think that is areally, really big and important
one.
and with that, like if you feelconfused a lot, like you can't
really tell what's real.
Like there's a, a sense ofgaslighting going on where you
think something is one way andthey're trying to convince you
that it's not, but it doesn'treally make sense.
like's, so you start questioningyour own reality.
Elizabeth (32:02):
So let's talk about that real quick.
I, I do wanna get back to thefive.
So what gaslighting does is thatit actually causes brain damage.
And a lot of people don'trealize that.
It's not like, oh, I can't.
drink out of this straw anymoreand I can't drive a car.
No.
It's the level of brain damageto, um, I'm gonna order this
sandwich.
And then you're like, wait, Idon't like this.
Wait, but I used to like this.
(32:24):
Yeah.
And then you're kind of confusedas to why you're questioning
yourselves.
I would like to remind everybodylistening that we have what is.
The most beautiful tool insideof us, which is intuition.
And it has been with us sincethe beginning of the first
human.
And it's there for a reason.
And if you start to questionthat and you have to then ask
(32:44):
your partner for everything, andit's almost like asking for
permission.
You are being gaslit.
You are being gaslit.
Atlas (32:51):
Yeah, yeah.
And if there's just like a deepsense of confusion in what is
real.
Yeah, yeah.
Elizabeth (32:56):
I mean, a good example of that is I like, I
find something in my partner'sphone and instead of them taking
responsibility, it's like, whyare you looking at my phone?
You don't trust me.
Oh, now I'm the bad guy becauseyou looked in my phone and it
and it's, it's like,
Atlas (33:10):
Or like you just have trust issues because of the way
that your mom treated you whenyou were a kid, and they put it
all on.
Elizabeth (33:16):
Remember when your mom did that thing too?
And that's why you're intherapy?
Therapy?
I think you're projecting thaton me.
Atlas (33:20):
And it's like it totally.
Elizabeth (33:21):
You saw the text.
Yeah.
You saw the naked picture, sawthe real thing You saw the
cheating, and then you start toquestion yourself and then
you're like, maybe he wasn'tcheating on me.
And now I remember one fightwith my narcissist ended in, um,
he didn't think that I wasfinancially responsible.
Mm, mm-hmm.
But the fight started becausehe, I, I believe him to have had
(33:44):
like a drinking problem and hejust stayed out all night
drinking.
But then it ended.
This is how gas, this is howcrazy gaslighting is that it
ended with me thinking that Iwas being financially
irresponsible.
Atlas (33:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is another really commonthing in our relationship with
narcissism, where you bringfeedback to the table and by the
end of the conversation you'reapologizing
Elizabeth (34:04):
You're apologizing to them.
Okay, so we're looking out forvictim or, but, or, um, Bully,
bully, victim or bully.
Gaslighting.
Yeah.
Confusion.
Uhhuh, what else you got?
Atlas (34:17):
Basically like refusal to take responsibility for your
actions, turning it around onyou, being really sensitive to
anything perceived, likecriticism.
Um, yeah, like really extremehypersensitivity, I would say as
well.
Elizabeth (34:30):
Yeah, that's a good one.
Hypersensitivity.
Yeah.
There's no, I mean, if youreally think about it this way.
If you're a severely insecureperson, you can't take
Atlas (34:40):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Elizabeth (34:42):
It's confusing again because they have,
Atlas (34:45):
sense of grand grandiose.
Yeah.
Elizabeth (34:48):
yeah, my nurses what used to say, I'm like the
smartest person in the world.
I'm like the smartest guy
Atlas (34:54):
But then if you say anything to make them feel dumb,
it's like they cannot take it.
No.
Elizabeth (34:58):
And then you as the victim start to play dumb
because what happens if you'resmarter than them, it starts a
fight.
What happens if you're this, itstarts, and also another good
thing to look at is, um.
everything that they find in thebeginning to be so awesome about
you and all that is now an issuein your relationship.
Atlas (35:17):
Yeah.
And you know, the, so many ofthe things that I pay attention
to now is like what you said,what I feel inside my body.
Yes.
If I feel like I'm constantlywalking on eggshells.
Another one that is elusive islike, if I feel super eager to
please somebody.
Elizabeth (35:30):
Yes.
Oh my God.
Atlas (35:31):
I'm immediately skeptical and that goes hand in hand with
being really, um, feeling veryhypervigilant about displeasing
them.
Yeah.
'cause you can tell that there,there's this, that little kid in
me comes back of like, Ooh, Ican't step in the wrong
direction.
Or I might be dealing with anexplosion.
Elizabeth (35:49):
That is a trauma response from our
Atlas (35:51):
Totally.
Elizabeth (35:52):
I just happen to find the perfect job as a life coach
and a retreat host, because Ihave a plan A, B, C, and D.
And if anything happens, I knowif, if, it rains on the
property, I know where to takethe guests.
And they never know.
They think I have everythingplanned.
I see it as my superpower now.
I use all of these traumas andthank God I have a career out of
it.
(36:13):
Like you said, listening to mybody when I was at the yoga
retreat, I would find myselfalmost manipulating the, the,
the conversation back topraising him so he wouldn't get
mad at the whole group.
So, I mean, this was a man thatwould slam doors.
And he was hosting the retreat.
Yeah.
And, and I think one of thethings that I found, like I'm
(36:36):
playing a part'cause that's howI felt.
Now I'm playing a part is Iremember, you know, going, you
know, there's a lot of things Idon't agree with.
Like, I don't know if I wannahave an altar.
And I remember looking right athim and going, I would never put
you on my altar.
You're not my guru.
And his answer was, but a lot ofpeople would.
he also was, dating one of thestudents who was 23 years old
(36:58):
and he was 50 and he was tellingus the dangers of dating your
students and the dangers of asingle male.
So you are telling us hypocrisy.
The hypocrisy is crazy.
And then he tells us that that'show he met his first wife.
Another sign that I saw is thathe proposed to her within three
months.
Atlas (37:18):
Yeah.
Elizabeth (37:18):
So what does the narcissist do?
They propose they buy a housewith you or they get you
pregnant because they want youto feel trapped.
Financially reliant too.
Yeah.
So my narcissist, like I say,he's not the smartest.
He got into a lease with me.
Do you know how easy it is tobreak a
Atlas (37:32):
Yes, sir.
Nice
Elizabeth (37:35):
Nice try.
Also, I've never been one tofinancially need anything from
anybody.
And what I started learningabout him is that in his past
relationships, he did that towomen where he would have them
financially dependent on him.
So that, and he was also veryquick, um, to talk about as
buying a property, to having achild, to, um, getting married.
(37:56):
It was, it was too quick.
Yeah.
And then, you know, now I, Ithink back like.
Am I a narcissist?
Do I'm not though.
Do I just think I'm amazing andeverybody falls in love with me?
No.
I've just been attractingnarcissists most of my life.
One of the things I love aboutmy partner now is he was very.
Like take things slow, and thatto me was weird.
Atlas (38:20):
Yeah, because it's, it's something you're not used to.
And this was something that mycoaching certification really
took me through was like Weassociate love with the love
that we saw growing up, which isa love bomb.
Yeah.
Depending on what love we sawgrowing up, right?
Mm-hmm.
It's like, but whatever love youwere around while your brain was
forming.
Like that's what you think loveis.
And so you keep reenacting thatdynamic and it actually takes
(38:41):
intentional work to step backand go, maybe love is taking
things slow.
Yeah.
Instead of being love bombed,but then it's this really weird
like rewiring your brain.
And some people, it's like, Ihave clients come to me and
they're like, well, I'm notgetting love bombed.
Does he even care?
Elizabeth (38:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, it's a real
Atlas (38:56):
And I'm like, no.
It's so precious that he'swilling to move slowly with you.
Elizabeth (39:00):
So precious because we want that honeymoon phase
always.
And then we like to move intothe trauma and the drama and the
cra like that seems
Atlas (39:07):
Yeah,
Elizabeth (39:08):
You know?
I even had these thoughts andit's funny because I feel like,
I don't know if you feel this, alot of the time my clients are
teaching me.
It's something I'm going throughOh, for sure.
That I need to see.
Yeah.
And I remember thinking.
Is this boring?
Is my boyfriend boring?
And then I, you know, I was insuch a process of rewiring where
(39:30):
I knew, I, I knew for a fact Iwas loving wrong.
I was in relationships wrong.
And I remember one of myaffirmations was, he is
everything you have prayed forbut didn't work for.
He's everything you've prayedfor, but you haven't worked for.
Because I, I had it
Atlas (39:45):
Yeah.
Elizabeth (39:46):
when we were dating.
In the very early stages, likethe talking, I remember it was a
full moon and I went outside andI just started like asking the
universe.
There was two people I wasdating and one of'em just looked
like every guy I've ever dated,I.
Atlas (40:00):
Yeah.
Elizabeth (40:01):
it was him.
And I just asked the universelike, you're gonna have to help
me.
Like I, I don't know what to do.
We have to remove one.
And the, the one that needed tobe removed didn't call me for
three days.
There you go.
And when he came back into town,I say.
I had a conversation with themoon, and I just need you to
know that I picked somebody elseand the moon helped.
And he was like, I totally, Irespect that.
(40:23):
It was so good.
Good.
But um, yeah, I had to rewire mywhole brain.
Mm-hmm.
And now my favorite thing to dois to be as boring as possible.
Yeah.
And you know, even sometimeswhen we have our moments, me and
my partner, I'm just like, lookat us all cute.
Yeah.
Because it's so
Atlas (40:39):
Yeah.
And peaceful.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Elizabeth (40:42):
And it's secure.
And you know what the worst partabout, um, kids that dealt with
trauma is that at our court,it's what we want.
It's just not familiar to us.
Mm-hmm.
And the familiar feels familiar.
Atlas (40:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the familiar sometimes feelsless scary mm-hmm.
Than the unknown.
Yeah.
Even if the unknown ispotentially gonna be way better,
it's like we'll stay in the painthat we're familiar with, with
rather than risk something new.
Elizabeth (41:08):
That's why so many women, um, it's so hard for them
to leave and
Atlas (41:12):
Go back after they do again.
Elizabeth (41:14):
and then I get very upset because, um.
When people don't understandthat, you know, because I work
with these women all the time,and when people don't understand
well, she looks so successfuland so yeah, there's way more
going on.
Nobody likes to be abused.
No.
Especially when it's physical.
Nobody likes that.
So what would you say are someof the things women can do if
(41:36):
they recognize that they're in atoxic situation and they need to
get out?
Atlas (41:40):
Um, honestly, like first thing is get support.
you can like, preferablyprofessional support if you can
get a therapist or even likecall hotline, like talk to
somebody that's trained insupporting you for going through
abuse.
Um, and then the other thingthat I would just really
encourage anyone to do is like,stay attuned to your experience.
Stay with your nervous system.
(42:01):
Stay with the emotions that arecoming up because those are what
are, will eventually hold youand guide you out if you try to
shut down your experience andpretend it's not happening.
Elizabeth (42:11):
Oh, that's what you mean by that?
Yeah.
So basically gaslighting
Atlas (42:13):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
If, if on top of it all, you'realso telling yourself that
everything's fine, you're alsoabandoning.
your this.
Elizabeth (42:20):
This is normal.
This is normal behavior.
Exactly.
I'm the one who made him upset.
Atlas (42:25):
So the first step is admitting to yourself that
you're even in one.
Yeah.
You know?
And being real with yourselfabout your partner's behavior
and how you actually feel andnot pretending that everything's
fine.
Elizabeth (42:35):
That's great advice.
It actually, I mean, the more wetalk about it, it's like a drug.
I had somebody call me today andsay, how can we get this person
into treatment?
I go, you don't get people intotreatment.
They have to recognize
Atlas (42:47):
yeah, yeah,
Elizabeth (42:48):
like no one's, no one locked me in a van and took me
to treatment.
I had to realize it for myself.
Atlas (42:53):
totally.
Um.
Elizabeth (42:54):
that's incredible.
I do wanna get to your poetrybook.
Yeah.
Um, because you're not just aconnection coach, you also do
movement.
And, and just like most of uscreatives right?
We don't just do one thing.
Yeah.
Um, when people ask like, whatkind of coach I am, I'm like, so
like I do reiki and talent.
Yeah.
like there's so many things thatI do.
But again, not everything is foreverybody.
(43:15):
So I love that you were able toput one of your passions on
print.
So tell us about it.
It's called, there is a page inhere about you, which by the
way, it's so cute.
I love this.
Atlas (43:27):
yeah, yeah.
This is a really preciousproject.
Project to me.
I started it years ago and justnow finished it last December.
Um, and Basically theinspiration behind it.
I talked to individual peopleabout things that they were
going through, and I wrote eachpoem based on that.
So each poem you're gonna love.
This is named after SomebodyReal that I talked to about the
(43:51):
thing that,
Elizabeth (43:51):
Do you ask permission?
Yes.
You're just naming poetry.
if I I love that.
Atlas (43:56):
And so, yeah, it's called, there's a Patient Here
About You, because each poem isnamed and In addition to that,
through writing it, it was likeeveryone I talked to was going
through the same stuff.
it was like so beautiful as ahuman to just see like, wow,
we're all on the same journey.
In a different costume, in adifferent place.
Yes.
You know?
(44:17):
Um, and like as a writer it wasso challenging'cause I'm like,
how do I write about the samething in 20 different ways?
Um, but it was just like sobeautiful and it made me feel so
connected to the humanexperience and
Elizabeth (44:29):
Have you written your whole life?
Atlas (44:31):
Have I written my whole life?
I would say I discovered mypassion for poetry through the
slam poetry scene in college.
Okay.
Um, and I started like competingand it was just a really.
I find articulation to be verytherapeutic.
The process of turning myinternal world into something
tangible that someone else canread Yeah.
(44:53):
Is like really cathartic for meand totally plugs into my
coaching work too.
Like one of the things that I'mso passionate about is helping
people learn how to communicate.
I love that.
'cause we all All have thisinternal experience and we all
like desire to be understood init.
Yeah.
And some of us feel like wedon't know how.
and so poetry for me is this wayof like.
Constantly turning inward andgiving a voice to the voiceless,
(45:15):
you know?
Ugh.
And then through that process, Ifeel less alone and the reader
feels less alone
Elizabeth (45:20):
So where can people get your book?
Atlas (45:21):
through my Instagram.
I don't have a link or a websiteyet.
Um, but my Instagram is justAtlas flow, and you can shoot me
a DM on there.
And I've got a hundred copiesleft to sell.
Elizabeth (45:31):
That's awesome.
and we'll definitely put that inour link in, you know, our
everything for the podcast.
I do wanna ask, um, how are youshowing up to take care of
yourself?
Because I know.
um, I'm constantly helpingpeople figure out how to show up
for themselves and take care ofthemselves.
But as a coach, sometimes Islip.
(45:51):
Um, so how do you do it as acoach?
Atlas (45:53):
Yeah, I love that question and it's something that
I'm digging into extra rightnow, and honestly, it's my
creativity.
Mm.
It's, it's showing Up to mypractices and having a form of
like devotion in my life.
I find that if I'm showing up toa practice every day, whether it
be writing or movement, um, itnourishes the relationship that
(46:18):
I have with myself.
Uhhuh gives me space to check inand even know how I'm doing.
Um, right now, I would say likemy biggest practice is through
movement.
Elizabeth (46:26):
I love that.
Atlas (46:27):
Yeah, it's definitely a, a pillar of my life.
And that's so great.
Connecting with my loved onesis,
Elizabeth (46:34):
That's a great one.
Atlas (46:34):
yeah.
Yeah.
Elizabeth (46:35):
And I don't think people realize that you can move
in your kitchen.
you can move in your living room100%.
You can move on the dance
Atlas (46:41):
Yes.
Elizabeth (46:42):
times in the grocery store.
'cause I'm 42 now and my jamsare all at the grocery store
apparently.
Woo.
It's like my whole playlist.
Atlas (46:48):
Like what?
It's funny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
you can do it sitting in bed,you know?
Elizabeth (46:52):
Yeah, you know what?
We just, um, got over beingreally sick and I got back into
like bed yoga.
Mm-hmm.
Because there wasn't a lot thatI could do.
I was feeling really dizzy andstuff and I was like, oh God,
just in your own bed.
And it's 10 minutes and it's allover YouTube and it's a great
way to start and end your
Atlas (47:09):
Totally.
Elizabeth (47:10):
Really, it's just 10 minutes because we are such a.
Go, go, go.
Culture.
We're always on our phones.
We don't realize how much timewe are not spending with
ourselves, with ourselves.
100%.
Atlas (47:21):
And then it's no wonder we get lost in our specific
relationships because we'redisconnected from ourselves
entirely.
We're not even noticing thatwe're anxious all day, every
day, Unless you have a practicewhere you actually check in with
yourself And go like wow,there's something going on
within me that doesn't feelright, because we're not all
there.
Elizabeth (47:36):
A lot of us don't even know how to do that.
No.
Like society doesn't teach ushow to listen to our bodies.
Atlas (47:41):
not at all.
Elizabeth (47:42):
You know, so, yeah, that's great.
Um, I definitely wanna have youback and I would love to do like
a movement thing and you canteach our listeners how to move,
but I'm just so grateful thatyou came and thank you for
everything that you taught us.
Um, if you resonate with thisepisode, please share it.
I mean, I think this is anepisode that everyone should
hear and everybody has likeabout five friends that you can
(48:02):
send it to and be like, listenma'am, I think you're going
through this, or you um, youknow.
I don't think we can heal andgrow unless we have grace for
who we were.
And you know, it took me a longtime to realize that I can't
keep being mad at that personbecause I didn't know better.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
I didn't know that I was in anarcissistic relationship.
(48:24):
You obviously knew you werebeing sucked into a cult, so
we're very excited that.
that didn't work.
And you you're outta that Oh.
Um, and yeah, I would love tohave you back.
So thank you so much for being
Atlas (48:35):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
Elizabeth Vajello (48:38):
Okay.
Now for the legal stuff, youknow the important things that I
have to say, this podcast is foreducational and entertainment
purposes only.
I'm just a life coach, not alicensed therapist.
Not a licensed psychotherapist.
This is not a substitute foradvice from a doctor, therapist,
or any other qualified expert.
Got great.
(48:59):
See you in the next episode.
Welcome to the Holistic Self-Love podcast.
I'm Elizabeth Vajero, a lifecoach here to help you build
healthy habits for real change.
Join me as we explore practicalways to reduce your stress, find
balance, and feel your bestevery day.
Elizabeth (00:17):
Welcome to the Holistic Self-Love podcast,
where we love to interviewpeople that will help us
transform our hearts, minds, andsouls.
And today we have a very, veryeyeopening.
interview today with AtlasTaylor.
Um, Atlas is a relationshipcoach, a connection coach.
Um, she also does a lot ofmovement.
(00:40):
She's an author of a beautifulpoetry book, but one of my
favorite things about her andwhat connected me to her is I
heard her say a phrase, whichwas Spiritual narcissism, which
is of today's episode.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Um, funny story.
Somebody send me something thatyou posted.
(01:00):
And I was, had you living in mybrain for like a month now.
Maybe a little bit longer.
I have referenced your post.
I've talked about it.
And then I decided to reach outto you.
Mm-hmm.
And you answered, and we live inthe same state.
Yeah.
And you live 40 minutes away.
that's true.
And You are gracious enough tocome.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Atlas (01:21):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
Elizabeth (01:23):
That's honor.
You're gone.
I'm really excited to meet youand I love anytime I can share
my space and like.
Have people in my space.
So One, what is a connectioncoach?
Because I feel like a lot ofpeople don't even understand
what that is.
Yeah.
And how did you become one?
Atlas (01:38):
Yeah.
So what is a connection coach?
Um, another way you can totallysay you just did is a
relationship coach.
Um, I like the word connectionbecause I think it facilitates a
different emotional response,which I appreciate.
Um, I think that connection issomething that we all crave.
Yeah.
And that we're all, you know,born into.
And it's a really innate part ofbeing human.
(02:01):
And I feel like we have noeducation around how to be in
connection in a healthy way.
And so,
Elizabeth (02:07):
Fully agree.
Atlas (02:08):
yeah.
Elizabeth (02:09):
This was heartbreaking.
Atlas (02:10):
Yeah.
I mean, connection is somethingthat we're all in from the
moment that we're born and.
I think that most of the traumathat we face happens in
relationship and most of thehealing that we experience also
happens in relationship.
Um, and so yeah, as a connectioncoach, my job is really to
support people in connecting tothemselves and others in ways
(02:36):
that heal instead of harm.
Elizabeth (02:38):
Oh, that's so beautiful.
And when you.
say like relationships.
It could this be for anyrelationship?
Atlas (02:44):
It really can.
Yeah, Like I think a lot of thetime when we show up in
relationship in one area of ourlife, one way, we show up that
way in a lot of otherrelationships too, whether it be
our relationship to food orsubstances or sleep, or our kids
or our partners, or our parents.
Um, when we work on onerelationship, it often ripples
into all of the otherrelationships that we have.
Elizabeth (03:04):
Oh my God, I've never heard it be described like that.
and it's funny because I.
As a life coach and a retreathost, I'm very big on like,
well, what is our love language?
Mm-hmm.
Like, Can we learn our lovelanguage?
Because we're probably speakingdifferent languages.
But even with my child, I.
I know her love language and sheknows mine, and we're very
respectful of that.
(03:25):
And I didn't even realize that.
I like what you just said.
It's like, oh yeah, I just thinkshe's like one of the loves of
my life.
So I treat it very much like oneof the most sacred relationships
that I have.
I I'm very careful.
We just recorded a podcast wherewe were talking about, um, once
I realized what she wasdiagnosed with and that her
(03:45):
brain worked a little differentthan mine, it was like, well,
how do I dive into learningabout her brain because I need
to learn how to communicate withher.
So I love that you said thatbecause when people come to me,
and I don't know if you get thisas a coach, sometimes it's
issues with their boss, alwayswith their mother and their
father.
Mm-hmm.
Always who are always selfparenting.
After, you know, God bless them,they, they did what they could.
(04:08):
tell me a little bit about whydid you become a connection
coach?
Like what led you down thispath?
Atlas (04:14):
it's something I could talk about for so long, but to
simplify it, I feel like I'vealways been a relationally
oriented person.
Mm.
And as cliche as it sounds, I dothink it was a case of turning
my pain into my passion.
Mm-hmm.
I think.
Like I mentioned earlier, a lotof the trauma or pain that I
experienced happened in arelationship, and it sent me on
(04:35):
this journey hunting for answersof like, why, why do we end up
in relationships that hurt us?
And specifically like patterns.
Why patterns?
Because for me, like from myfirst relationship, I, I had my
first boyfriend when I was
Elizabeth (04:48):
was 12.
I mean, he was three.
Okay.
Atlas (04:49):
older than me.
Yeah.
Um, and.
It was a really turbulentrelationship and that kinda like
set the stage for this pattern,um, that I ended up playing out
for much of my young adulthoodand even into my adulthood.
Um, and it was like even when Iwent to therapy and started
understanding the roots of thepatterns, I was still playing
(05:10):
them out.
And so, um, I started to getlike really passionate about
this question of like, why do weplay out these patterns even
when we're aware of where theycome from and how do we take our
power back?
And change the pattern.
And that's where I feel liketherapy is really good at
getting to like the history andthe root of where it started.
But coaching, you know this as acoach, it's a little bit more
(05:31):
like goal oriented.
Elizabeth (05:32):
Yeah, like now what?
Like we can, you guys, if youwant, you can pitch a tent and
live in your trauma, but likewe're here to like move
Atlas (05:39):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And I discovered, um, a mancalled Mark Groves.
He has a podcast as well.
He's a connection specialist, hecalls himself.
And so he was the one that gaveme a window into like what that
even was.
Um,'cause at first I wasconsidering going back to school
and becoming a therapist, but Ireally don't thrive in the
school environment here.
And so becoming a certifiedcoach was another way to step
(06:03):
into the psychology world andwork with people on
relationships without going backto school.
Elizabeth (06:07):
I've met therapists that are like, I wish I would've
Know what a coach was.
Mm-hmm.
Because they're.
So limited, you know?
Right, Yeah, yeah.
Legally, they're so limited, Andlike for me, like I get to go on
retreat with my clients and Iget to see it on a much deeper
level, and we get to have all ofthese exp experience.
Like you can't go on a retreatwith your therapist.
No.
Atlas (06:24):
No, there's a lot more boundaries you have to have with
a licensed therapist, and thatis something I love about being
a certified coach instead, isyou can build a little bit more
of a personal relationship withthem.
Um, and kind of like personalizeyour practice a little bit more.
A million percent, which isreally nice.
Elizabeth (06:37):
Yeah.
I, I learned very early on, likeyou know, I think when I first
started like six years ago, Iwas like, I would have these
outlines and I'm like, this iswhat we're gonna work on.
Mm-hmm.
And then that would go out thedoor and I completely learned,
oh no, I have to meet peoplewhere they are.
Atlas (06:51):
can't prepare for a session.
No.
Elizabeth (06:53):
Oh God No, Yeah, you can meditate and ask the
universe, put the in you.
But there is no like,'causethey'll, they'll, there's always
something else going on.
Then I learned to maybe, um.
I go through a lot of like selfdiscovery questions.
Mm-hmm.
That helps.
But I always allow them, Ialways say it's 15 minutes.
It usually goes more, but it'slike what you said, as humans,
(07:16):
we need connection.
And a lot of my clients justneed to feel that somebody is
listening to them and holdingspace for them.
Yep.
And I love to be that person.
Yeah.
And then obviously I will holdhim accountable.
and and stuff like that.
But I'm really glad I didn'tpick to be a therapist either.
Me too.
Like I really enjoy coaching.
Me too.
I really feel satisfied in whatI'm doing and I could be like,
(07:37):
you know, a complete hippie andbe like, okay, we're gonna stop
and do some sound bowls and Ithink you're chakra and you
know, and they get it and it'sso fun.
Yeah.
I mean, I have an experience, Ihave a set like this on the
retreat property and there'salways one That gets a little
weird in every retreat and it'snever the same one.
Yeah.
And you know, I, my business iswith my brother, it's a family
(08:00):
run business, and he didn'treally, he's, he was raised,
born again Christian.
We have different moms.
He didn't really get it.
And then I started doing work onhim, and then I started telling
him like, no, no, no.
This one is clogged.
Yeah.
And it would be,'causecollectively my group was going
through something.
Yeah.
And it's always like that.
Yeah.
And that's why I love Being acoach and I love doing retreats.
(08:20):
Mm-hmm.
Um, so I love talking to othercoaches because people don't get
It Yeah.
People also don't get like howheavy our work is.
Atlas (08:28):
It can be very intense.
It can be very intense.
I try to have practices aroundholding myself after my sessions
and like letting things go andnot taking too much on and all
of that.
Elizabeth (08:40):
Yeah.
So when you walked in you werelike, oh, I love your space.
and like this is a workspace.
But it's also a place where likewhen I get to those stairs over
there, I Do a closing ceremonybecause this, none of this this
is here.
Yeah.
It does not belong to my family.
It doesn't belong to my partner.
I also, another thing that Ilearned, I wanna say about three
(09:02):
or four years ago, is not takingcalls when I'm not at cap.
Like when I'm at capacity and Ican't, because I would then
become resentful.
Or the phone call would thenmake me cry.
'cause like you said, you'vebeen really into this your whole
life.
You just didn't really know.
Yeah.
I've been a life coach my entire
Atlas (09:20):
Totally.
Elizabeth (09:21):
And people come to us for that.
Yeah.
My daughter, um, constantlyjokes that like I can be in any
country.
We were in Brazil and I don'tspeak Portuguese, and someone
started crying to me.
Yeah.
And it's a very regular thing.
Yeah.
I have to be very careful of whoI open up to.
Atlas (09:34):
Yeah.
Elizabeth (09:35):
Yeah.
So I can imagine that's what yougo through relations at.
Atlas (09:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, when I became certified,all my friends were like, wow,
you've been doing this for allof us for free for years, and
it's really cool and rewardingto turn something that's like so
innate and so passionate, um,into work.
Yeah, it's really cool.
I.
Elizabeth (09:52):
Okay.
So talk to me about, I wannatalk about spiritual narcissism.
Yes.
I mentioned it in anotherpodcast that I have never even
really said the word narcissistin my socials.
If you go on my social media,it's very light and fluffy.
I don't talk about it.
Um, I went through, uh, a wholeprocess when I wanted to make
(10:13):
this podcast with a really greatfriend of mine.
And she said, you help womenwith narcissistic abuse.
Mm-hmm.
And I was like, I know, but Inever talk about it.
And she's like, well, maybe youshould.
And she was the one who sent meyour post.
Oh, she's the reason you'rehere.
Go.
Yeah.
So explain to me a little bitwhat you think it means.
Yeah.
And then I'll tell you how ittouched me.
Atlas (10:32):
totally.
I mean, so spiritual narcissism,you first just have to
understand what narcissism is,um, which I feel like.
Something that isn't talkedabout enough is that narcissism
is often this maladaptive copingstrategy that someone learned in
order to protect themselves.
Yeah.
They're often really sensitivepeople with actually really low
(10:53):
self-esteem.
Mm-hmm.
And so in order to cope, theyhave this grandiose, self
inflated, um, ego.
Yeah.
And it's.
Elizabeth (11:03):
I'm very self-serving.
Atlas (11:04):
Yes.
And, And, it's, it's verymanipulative.
It can be very confusing to bein a relationship with them.
It can be very hot and cold, andthere's this oscillation of
having to like comfort themthrough their smallness and
victim hood.
And then also having to be thisconstant source of like,
validation for them in theirlike grandiose nature too.
Um,
Elizabeth (11:21):
and being their victim.
Because
Atlas (11:23):
totally
Elizabeth (11:23):
a narcissist is a bully and a victim.
Atlas (11:25):
they can't be one, they'll switch to the other And
it's a very disorienting feeling
Elizabeth (11:30):
So as, as the person who's receiving this abuse,
you're literally, it's like, I,I kind of tell my clients this.
It's like the narcissist willthrow you off the building and
then be waiting to
Atlas (11:39):
catch you at the bottom to, to to save you.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
and to make you think that youneed them.
To be saved and yeah, it's thisvery discombobulating experience
and something that narcissistsare really, really good at.
Is using whatever contextthey're in to their advantage.
So you take a spiritualnarcissist and what they will do
is they will take the lingo inthe spiritual community and the
(12:02):
archetypes in the spiritualcommunity, and they will use
that to assist theirmanipulation.
So if a narcissist is gonnasexually assault someone in the
spiritual community, they mightuse like tantric language or
shamanic language, like usingthe spiritual context in order
to assist them in theirmanipulation.
Well, because they're very goodat, um, behaving like they're
(12:26):
victim so that they seem likechameleon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They're a chameleon.
Like, you know, I'm very carefulwith my clients when they're
like, I think he's my soulmate.
And it's like week two.
And, you know, uh, I'd love tohear your experience if you've
ever had a narcissist in yourlife, because I think I told you
this yesterday, once I actuallyrealized what a narcissist was,
(12:47):
I was like, holy, I have beenliving amongst them my whole
entire life.
yeah, With spiritual narcissismin particular.
Uh, it's so interesting and it,it go, I've been around it since
early childhood as well.
Um, but in more recent years,the spiritual narcissism that I
(13:08):
see is usually someone in thecommunity that is incredibly
charismatic, attractive,successful.
um, I.
Often in a leadership role.
Mm-hmm.
And really kind of abusing thepower that they have, whether it
be their looks, their money,their social status, um, to
assert power over other people.
Yeah.
Um, And sometimes that's throughcosing them into like weird
(13:32):
spiritual experiences.
Sometimes it's coercing theminto relationship.
Sometimes it's, you know,whatever it is they're asking
other people to give their poweraway.
Um, I could go into like acouple stories if you want.
Elizabeth (13:46):
Stir, we would love to hear it.
Atlas (13:47):
Yeah.
Um hmm.
So.
I live in Colorado.
Yeah.
Like we know that there's a, a,a spiritual community here.
One story I have is, is movinginto a home where everyone was
equal renters.
But for some reason there wasone person in the home that was
looked at as like the leader inthe house.
(14:07):
And at first that seemed likehealthy and normal and fine.
Um, but the thing that wasreally strange was she had these
spiritual practices and Shestarted asserting that people
needed to participate in thosepractices where she was a leader
or she was gonna kick them outof the house.
Elizabeth (14:25):
Oh, that sounds like a cult.
Atlas (14:26):
Yes, very cultish.
Elizabeth (14:28):
And you're just like looking for somewhere to rent.
Atlas (14:29):
So I was living out of my van at the time and moved in
because it was COVID, so it waslike shelter in place.
And I had a couple friends thatlived.
Elizabeth (14:35):
Again.
So now she has even more powerbecause you guys have nowhere to
go.
Yes.
'cause we're in the middle of apandemic.
Atlas (14:41):
she, you know, another thing that I think people don't
talk about enough is there'soften beautiful parts of people
that have narcissistic traits aswell.
Yeah.
And so you can be really pulledin by the beautiful parts of
them.
Um, she was a beautiful,powerful woman.
Um, and I think that she usedthat power to manipulate people
into handing their power over toher.
(15:02):
Yeah.
And going through these reallystrange, um.
Spiritual, sexual, um, druginduced sometimes experiences.
Wow.
Um, and I also saw people bewilling to do this, to be her
partner.
Um, okay.
Or to be her friend, you know,and so it, it, was this really
weird, one of the things shesaid to me at one point was, I
(15:25):
am the gatekeeper to the uncleanworld.
Elizabeth (15:26):
Oh my God.
Okay, Atlas.
This is full-blown like cultstuff.
Atlas (15:30):
Yeah.
I I agree.
Yeah.
And this is like very normalizedin like the spiritual community
Elizabeth (15:35):
Very normal.
Atlas (15:36):
Denver and Boulder.
there are, there are lots ofgroups of people with
facilitators that are notequipped to actually hold a safe
space mm-hmm.
That are involving drugs thatare, um, using manipulation.
And the the sad thing is, is ittakes advantage too of like
people that are in Vulnerableplaces
Elizabeth (15:56):
and desperate Connection.
Yes.
And desperate native, believingin
Atlas (15:59):
Exactly.
Elizabeth (16:00):
I feel like, I do love Colorado for so many
reasons, and I did become veryspiritual and into wellness.
I've always, you know, knownwhat my higher power was and,
but it's almost like I'm onguard here.
Me too, in Miami, it's a littledifferent In Miami, it's very
tantra orientated.
You, you know, growing up inMiami, I know what a pervert
(16:20):
looks like.
Sure.
Like, oh yeah.
but I, I was just telling, oh, Iwas telling the facilitator who
I'm doing her retreat in acouple weeks.
I love her so much because I.
One day I said, you know, theonly guru I have is Jesus
Christ.
And she said, oh my God, yes.
And I go, and I'm not knockingon people's door trying to sell
'em Jesus.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you either believe or youdon't.
But I'm always very thrown offby that in this community of
(16:44):
like, you know, my experiencewas not as intense.
Um, it was just this past yearin 2024 when I went to get
certified, uh, as a yogateacher.
And I've actually never spokenabout this.
Um, and.
The yoga teacher that was doingit was, it wasn't, I, I don't, I
almost, oh, And then this iswhere I think like, these people
(17:07):
are gonna listen to it and I gointo, like,
Atlas (17:09):
have that feeling too.
Elizabeth (17:09):
I go into like the victim mode of like, I don't
wanna piss off my abuser.
Yeah.
But, um, I don't think he wassmart enough to start a cult.
To be honest.
Um, he kind of looked like a,he, he kind of started to
resemble a yoga teacher that'slike strung out at the end of
their career.
He lived here.
he was from Miami.
Yeah.
Um.
Right away it was like, there isno cannabis, there is no coffee,
(17:33):
there is no this.
Meanwhile the whole propertysmelled like cannabis.
I'm sober, but I do not likeinjustice.
So one of my first questions waslike, so quick question.
So the whole property smellslike, cannabis like, but we're
not allowed to smoke.
And he is like, yeah, becauseI'm not doing my yoga teacher
training.
So I immediately, as somebodywho's been part of narcissistic
abuse, I went into how do I makehim happy?
(17:56):
How do I like.
Keep him happy during classbecause I need to pass.
Because I just spend a lot ofmoney.
I'm 20 days away from my child,my partner, my business, um, my
practice, how and how can I makethis person happy to get
Certified, and I felt like hewas waving it Like over our
heads.
At one point he stopped anentire class and he made us take
(18:19):
out our cell phones and he said,now I need you all to write a
review and you can't writeanything bad because this is
Karma Yoga and somebody wasn'twriting a review.
and he goes.
You what happened to your phone?
And then I think he was kind ofafraid of me too.
He didn't really approach me toomuch because I'm very outspoken.
Um, he went and knocked on mybrother's door'cause me and my
(18:40):
brother did this together.
And he said, why didn't youwrite a review before that?
He was trying to give himcannabis and kind of trying to,
and it, it was, it was very muchlike I would see him yelling at
his staff, which is somebody whoemploys people.
I think that's disgusting.
And then I would see him go.
this is embarrassing.
They don't know what they'redoing.
They're making me look bad.
(19:02):
Yeah.
And I was just recognizing mybody, how my body felt and my
body felt like when I was inthose toxic relationships.
And it was so, that's why I feellike I was so touched by when I,
what I read, because you'reabsolutely right.
It's happening.
I'm also like so obsessed withcults.
Yeah.
Like I will watch all of it.
(19:23):
Did you see Mother God
Atlas (19:25):
Yeah.
Oh my
Elizabeth (19:26):
Yeah.
And it like happened here?
First of all, why did I watch itbefore I was not sleeping.
Yeah.
It's just weird.
But I, I always think like, howdid somebody get sucked into
this?
And honestly, I want you toexplain a little bit how
narcissists suck us in because Ialways thought I was really
powerful and I wasn't able toget sucked in.
(19:46):
And I have been over and over.
Atlas (19:48):
This is like such an important question and I love
that you bring it up because Ido think that we all think that
we are not susceptible.
Yeah.
And that's one of the thingsthat make.
us more susceptible.
So like really part of it isjust like being willing to, to
acknowledge that we're allsusceptible to manipulation.
We all have an Achilles heel.
Yeah.
And narcissists are brilliant atfinding it and using it against
(20:11):
us.
Um, I also love that you talkedabout the way that your body
felt.
This is like a huge, huge, hugefocus of my coaching practice
too.
And it sounds so simple, butit's like literally life
changing for you to buildrelationship with your nervous
system.
Mm-hmm.
And the cues that your bodysends you, because your body
will know what's up far beforeyour brain does.
And so like, yeah, really,really just learning the body
(20:32):
cues as far as how narcissistsrope you in.
I really think that they are.
trained to recognize the kind ofperson that will want to take
care of them.
Yes.
And I'm that kind of person youmight be as well.
Elizabeth (20:50):
Oh yeah.
'cause we're healers, we wannatake care of
Atlas (20:52):
Totally.
And we're also female bodied, sowe were conditioned from birth
to be nurturers.
Yep.
Um, the example I got from mymother was, forgive at all
costs.
You prove you're a good personthrough Wow.
Through taking it and continuingto show up, you know, and so.
Elizabeth (21:08):
So you're the perfect victim.
Atlas (21:08):
I'm the perfect victim.
I am the perfect trauma bond fora narcissist because both the
narcissist and me want therelationship to be all about
him.
Elizabeth (21:17):
Yeah.
You know, and the and mostfemale energy is like
Atlas (21:20):
A lot of it is'cause we're socialized to be that way
and, and you know, I think thatmen are statistically more
likely to become narcissistsbecause they're not socialized
to be in touch with empathy likewe are.
Elizabeth (21:32):
Just to be clear, there are a lot of female
narcissists.
There There are who have metthem and they have different
traits, but they're also veryscary.
I mean, you literally Atlas, youalmost got sucked in.
Oh my God.
I need to know how you got outof this.
Atlas (21:45):
You know, I, things had escalated to the point where she
was telling people that theyneeded to go through her rebirth
process in order to stay at thehouse.
And that's when I said, I'm out.
This is cultish.
And what really scared me atthat point was I was looking at
my other friends in the housegoing, this is crazy, right?
I.
Elizabeth (21:59):
Like, you guys, are we all
Atlas (22:01):
Same.
thing.
We're all saying the same thing,right?
And one person saw what I wasseeing and we both left the
house.
Elizabeth (22:05):
So wait, the other ones
Atlas (22:06):
A lot of people were okay with it.
And this was ki kind of one ofthose like really sobering
moments for me of how we do allfall for it and how we're all
willing to make sacrifices forconnection.
Elizabeth (22:19):
For connection.
And you know what it goes backto is all those women that get
catfished, all those men that goto all these countries to find
love because love is so, it's ahuman need, and that's all we're
looking
Atlas (22:32):
Totally.
And we're in an unprecedentedtime of disconnection.
Yeah.
Where we're all like so isolatedand especially in the us so
individualistic and so yeah, ifyou're living in a house with a
really good friend who tells youthat you have to do this thing
in order to continue living withher, I.
Elizabeth (22:47):
order to continue living.
Yeah, that is such a whole thereat the house.
Totally in the middle of apandemic.
Atlas (22:53):
And it was so weird because she was just a renter
like them.
It wasn't like she owned thehouse.
So I was, I was, oh my God.
It really tripped me out on howthese power dynamics happen.
Um, and I was just much lessemotionally involved with her.
So I think it was easier for meto kind of, um, see through it
and step out.
And I had the van that I couldmove back into.
Elizabeth (23:11):
But wait, let's talk about that real quick.
The emotional.
Apart, like you talked about howwe are all susceptible.
So what the narcissist does isit mirror, he mirrors your
behavior or they mirror yourbehavior, right?
Then they want you to be asvulnerable as possible because
they're collecting all of this.
So you're like, oh my God,they're holding space for me.
They wanna know all about me.
Now you're in there, and correctme if I'm wrong, but like you
(23:33):
fall in love with the performer,the person that was love bombing
you in the beginning.
So then when they start tochange, what happens?
Your brain goes, wait, no, he'sstill a good person.
A lot of things I deal with as acoach, um, with the after,
because I deal with a lot of theafter is it's amazing how you
can just forget all of the badstuff.
Mm-hmm.
And only remember the good.
(23:54):
And it's like you said, we justwant this connection and we want
it so bad that we hold on tolike, I don't know if the
audience knows what, um.
Bread crumbing is, but that'slike in the beginning, they give
you everything, right?
So you're the most important.
Um, The perfect example wasbefore this partner who is an
angel sent from heaven.
God bless him.
(24:15):
I don't know how I, what I didto deserve him.
I was in a narcissisticrelationship.
Um.
very short lived.
I don't think he was good at it.
And um, in the beginning it waslike, you're so incredible and I
love what you do, and oh my God,look how you work out.
And then at the end he wouldwalk by and make fun of me
working out.
Yeah.
And it was because you're right,they're so insecure.
(24:36):
they don't have the discipline.
They don't take care ofthemselves.
And, um, at the, at the very endof the relationship, I was okay
with like, if he even said, oh,that's a nice outfit.
He wasn't complimenting me.
He wasn't throwing flowers onme, telling me how beautiful he
was.
But it took so much to getthere.
Yeah, And I think me and youtalked a little bit about that
(24:57):
yesterday, the cycle of like Iare, I was in a situation where
I needed to get in a fight withhim.
So that then there would be alittle bit of fawning over me so
he would stay and I was gettinghigh from it.
And as an addict, I was like, Iam a, I remember thinking, I am
addicted to this person.
Yep.
Because again, going back to mybody, it felt, I felt that high.
(25:20):
like I just had to go through areally crazy fight.
But after that, he's gonna showme some sort of affection.
Atlas (25:26):
Totally.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, getting out of my lastnarcissistic relationship, I
remember approaching it like anaddict with my therapist of
like, I'm addicted to thisperson and I'm addicted to this
cycle because what happens?
What happens?
is There's that rupture and thenyou go through this like hot and
heavy repair that's like yeah,so emotionally charged and
intense and it hurts.
(25:46):
And then you have that high ofreconnection.
You usually have hot sex like,and it's the cortisol and the
dopamine and you know, all ofthe brain chemicals that make
you feel like accomplished.
And we worked through it and nowwe're more connected than ever.
We're stronger, and it is soaddicting.
Elizabeth (26:01):
And then they tell you that like it's because of
you that they're who they are.
They go
Atlas (26:05):
No, exactly what to say.
Yeah, and that's where youtouched on it.
Like they learn so much aboutyou and they collect all this
information that they can thenuse against you.
Elizabeth (26:13):
yeah.
Um, I did a lot of intense EDMRand it was, uh,'cause I had like
a very crazy accident.
Um, But I was working throughthis and I, that's when I
realized, oh my God, I was in anarcissistic relationship and I
remember I had two therapists atthe time.
I was working with two differenttherapists because I was so
scared I was gonna relapse.
So I put myself in addictiontherapy and then my regular
(26:34):
trauma therapist and I.
Like you just said, I took itlike an addiction.
So what is the first thing Ineed to do?
I need to be clean for 30 days.
Yep.
So I literally in my phone hadhow many days I had been no
contact.
Yeah.
And, um, I would do this thingto rewire my brain where when I
would have a good memory, Iwould immediately remind myself
(26:55):
of the last horrible thing hesaid to me.
Yeah.
Or you know, um, I remember oneof the last communications that
we had.
He said, well, I'm gonna go toColorado this weekend and pick
up my stuff.
And the old me in that toxicrelationship would've been like,
oh God.
Yeah, because, and I justimmediately remember going, I
already mailed it to you, and Ihad it, And I got in the car and
(27:16):
mailed it all to him because Iwas like, I need to cut all
ties, like no more Netflix,Spotify, nothing with this
person.
Yeah.
Ever.
Again, because this is like,this isn't me.
I didn't feel like
Atlas (27:27):
Totally.
Elizabeth (27:28):
I remember when I, so my partner.
and, and I'm, maybe one day I'lldo a whole podcast about this
because he really is just, Idon't know how he came into my
life.
He was my first boyfriend everwhen we were 13 years old.
My first kiss, my firsthandhold.
And um, I remember telling himin the beginning of our
relationship, like, I am a mess.
(27:50):
Like I am such, I'm in fuckingpieces.
So here's the good news.
You get to have me when I'mgonna rebuild myself.
it's gonna be such a long road.
So I just want you to know thatI'm like broken, but I'm
promised I'm gonna be betterthan ever.
And like how am I gettinggoosebumps?
And he reminds me of thatsometimes where he's just like,
do you remember who you werefour years ago?
(28:10):
Like you were a complete fuckingmess.
Also, I would like to say fouryears ago, I was already almost
almost five years into myspiritual wellness journey, and
the universe just like plantedme and made me start from the
beginning.
Yeah.
And it was that narcissist thatreally just broke me, you know?
(28:32):
But yeah, it's an addiction.
Um, I reference Mel Robbins alot because it's just my
favorite podcast ever.
She did the cutest podcast withher daughter going through a
breakup.
And that's how the therapistsaid it.
It's 30 days, no contact.
Yeah.
It's like an addiction.
There's something that our bodyhas when we hear their voice,
when we see them.
(28:52):
You know, I have a a 15 goingon, 16-year-old, and it's funny
to hear them talk or I just needclosure.
Atlas (29:00):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, totally.
Elizabeth (29:01):
You don't need closure.
Atlas (29:02):
mean, they talk about in addiction how there's no
moderation in addiction.
It's like you can't have alittle bit and stay clean.
Elizabeth (29:07):
Oh no, I can't.
Atlas (29:08):
And I experienced that in my, um, last narcissistic
relationship where it was like Ikept telling myself, well, maybe
I can be his friend.
Maybe I can see him just once.
Elizabeth (29:16):
Wow, You tried to be his friend.
Atlas (29:18):
Yeah.
At first.
Which I think was a delusional,it was like I was still in this.
Thought pattern that like hecould heal and change and grow
and that if I just could likestick around through a chapter
being his friend, maybe it wouldstill work out in the end or
whatever.
It's some form of delusion.
Elizabeth (29:35):
Of course,'cause we're fixers, we think we can
fix them.
It's something like 94% ofnarcissists never get help
because you have to.
Recognize that you have aproblem to get help, and they're
not capable of
Atlas (29:49):
That's why like most psychologists will say that
narcissism is one of the onlythings that like there really
isn't a recovery plan forbecause it's like entrenched in
the definition of narcissismthat they're gonna be resistant
to help or to acknowledging thatthey have a problem at all.
Elizabeth (30:04):
I wanna be so open when I see people on TikTok,
like I'm a recoveringnarcissist.
Atlas (30:09):
I'm like, no, you're not.
Elizabeth (30:09):
But sir, you're on TikTok talking about it.
Glorifying Yep.
Your horrible behavior.
Atlas (30:15):
Yeah, Yeah,
Elizabeth (30:17):
so, and, and I did, I did witness that once in my life
with a client where thenarcissist, um, went and got
diagnosed, but it was forself-serving purposes.
Mm.
It was for, feel sorry for
Atlas (30:29):
yeah, And that's a whole nother.
Thing happening in society rightnow is like everyone wants a
diagnosis.
Elizabeth (30:34):
Yep.
Yeah.
It's really interesting.
And I think, um, that'simportant to talk about too, is
that not everybody is anarcissist.
We can have narcissistictendencies.
Atlas (30:43):
Yes.
I think that unfortunately, it'sactually a very trendy word.
Mm-hmm.
And I see like way too oftenthat like.
you know, After a breakup, uh.
a lover becomes a narcissistYeah.
because you're just like mad atthem and it's like someone is
not a narcissist because theybroke up with you, or because
they hurt your feelings orbecause you don't like how they
handle conflict.
Narcissism is like a real mentalhealth disorder that needs to be
diagnosed by a doctor.
(31:04):
Yeah.
You know?
Um, and yeah, look into the, thelist of what narcissism looks
like and you can acknowledge ifsomeone is embodying those
tendencies.
Elizabeth (31:14):
So what would be like, I know there's sometimes
like seven, but could you giveus like five maybe things to
look out for?
Yeah.
When you think somebody is anarcissist.
And remember, we are not here todiagnose anybody.
Yeah.
We are not therapist.
Yes.
We are just having a friendlyconversation.
Yeah.
Between two coaches,
Atlas (31:31):
Absolutely.
Um, Yeah.
I think one of the biggest onesis that oscillation between, um,
inflated ego and victimhood.
Elizabeth (31:40):
The bully and of the victim.
Yes.
The bully and the
Atlas (31:42):
Exactly.
Um, yeah, I think that is areally, really big and important
one.
and with that, like if you feelconfused a lot, like you can't
really tell what's real.
Like there's a, a sense ofgaslighting going on where you
think something is one way andthey're trying to convince you
that it's not, but it doesn'treally make sense.
like's, so you start questioningyour own reality.
Elizabeth (32:02):
So let's talk about that real quick.
I, I do wanna get back to thefive.
So what gaslighting does is thatit actually causes brain damage.
And a lot of people don'trealize that.
It's not like, oh, I can't.
drink out of this straw anymoreand I can't drive a car.
No.
It's the level of brain damageto, um, I'm gonna order this
sandwich.
And then you're like, wait, Idon't like this.
Wait, but I used to like this.
(32:24):
Yeah.
And then you're kind of confusedas to why you're questioning
yourselves.
I would like to remind everybodylistening that we have what is.
The most beautiful tool insideof us, which is intuition.
And it has been with us sincethe beginning of the first
human.
And it's there for a reason.
And if you start to questionthat and you have to then ask
(32:44):
your partner for everything, andit's almost like asking for
permission.
You are being gaslit.
You are being gaslit.
Atlas (32:51):
Yeah, yeah.
And if there's just like a deepsense of confusion in what is
real.
Yeah, yeah.
Elizabeth (32:56):
I mean, a good example of that is I like, I
find something in my partner'sphone and instead of them taking
responsibility, it's like, whyare you looking at my phone?
You don't trust me.
Oh, now I'm the bad guy becauseyou looked in my phone and it
and it's, it's like,
Atlas (33:10):
Or like you just have trust issues because of the way
that your mom treated you whenyou were a kid, and they put it
all on.
Elizabeth (33:16):
Remember when your mom did that thing too?
And that's why you're intherapy?
Therapy?
I think you're projecting thaton me.
Atlas (33:20):
And it's like it totally.
Elizabeth (33:21):
You saw the text.
Yeah.
You saw the naked picture, sawthe real thing You saw the
cheating, and then you start toquestion yourself and then
you're like, maybe he wasn'tcheating on me.
And now I remember one fightwith my narcissist ended in, um,
he didn't think that I wasfinancially responsible.
Mm, mm-hmm.
But the fight started becausehe, I, I believe him to have had
(33:44):
like a drinking problem and hejust stayed out all night
drinking.
But then it ended.
This is how gas, this is howcrazy gaslighting is that it
ended with me thinking that Iwas being financially
irresponsible.
Atlas (33:55):
Yeah.
Yeah.
This is another really commonthing in our relationship with
narcissism, where you bringfeedback to the table and by the
end of the conversation you'reapologizing
Elizabeth (34:04):
You're apologizing to them.
Okay, so we're looking out forvictim or, but, or, um, Bully,
bully, victim or bully.
Gaslighting.
Yeah.
Confusion.
Uhhuh, what else you got?
Atlas (34:17):
Basically like refusal to take responsibility for your
actions, turning it around onyou, being really sensitive to
anything perceived, likecriticism.
Um, yeah, like really extremehypersensitivity, I would say as
well.
Elizabeth (34:30):
Yeah, that's a good one.
Hypersensitivity.
Yeah.
There's no, I mean, if youreally think about it this way.
If you're a severely insecureperson, you can't take
Atlas (34:40):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Elizabeth (34:42):
It's confusing again because they have,
Atlas (34:45):
sense of grand grandiose.
Yeah.
Elizabeth (34:48):
yeah, my nurses what used to say, I'm like the
smartest person in the world.
I'm like the smartest guy
Atlas (34:54):
But then if you say anything to make them feel dumb,
it's like they cannot take it.
No.
Elizabeth (34:58):
And then you as the victim start to play dumb
because what happens if you'resmarter than them, it starts a
fight.
What happens if you're this, itstarts, and also another good
thing to look at is, um.
everything that they find in thebeginning to be so awesome about
you and all that is now an issuein your relationship.
Atlas (35:17):
Yeah.
And you know, the, so many ofthe things that I pay attention
to now is like what you said,what I feel inside my body.
Yes.
If I feel like I'm constantlywalking on eggshells.
Another one that is elusive islike, if I feel super eager to
please somebody.
Elizabeth (35:30):
Yes.
Oh my God.
Atlas (35:31):
I'm immediately skeptical and that goes hand in hand with
being really, um, feeling veryhypervigilant about displeasing
them.
Yeah.
'cause you can tell that there,there's this, that little kid in
me comes back of like, Ooh, Ican't step in the wrong
direction.
Or I might be dealing with anexplosion.
Elizabeth (35:49):
That is a trauma response from our
Atlas (35:51):
Totally.
Elizabeth (35:52):
I just happen to find the perfect job as a life coach
and a retreat host, because Ihave a plan A, B, C, and D.
And if anything happens, I knowif, if, it rains on the
property, I know where to takethe guests.
And they never know.
They think I have everythingplanned.
I see it as my superpower now.
I use all of these traumas andthank God I have a career out of
it.
(36:13):
Like you said, listening to mybody when I was at the yoga
retreat, I would find myselfalmost manipulating the, the,
the conversation back topraising him so he wouldn't get
mad at the whole group.
So, I mean, this was a man thatwould slam doors.
And he was hosting the retreat.
Yeah.
And, and I think one of thethings that I found, like I'm
(36:36):
playing a part'cause that's howI felt.
Now I'm playing a part is Iremember, you know, going, you
know, there's a lot of things Idon't agree with.
Like, I don't know if I wannahave an altar.
And I remember looking right athim and going, I would never put
you on my altar.
You're not my guru.
And his answer was, but a lot ofpeople would.
he also was, dating one of thestudents who was 23 years old
(36:58):
and he was 50 and he was tellingus the dangers of dating your
students and the dangers of asingle male.
So you are telling us hypocrisy.
The hypocrisy is crazy.
And then he tells us that that'show he met his first wife.
Another sign that I saw is thathe proposed to her within three
months.
Atlas (37:18):
Yeah.
Elizabeth (37:18):
So what does the narcissist do?
They propose they buy a housewith you or they get you
pregnant because they want youto feel trapped.
Financially reliant too.
Yeah.
So my narcissist, like I say,he's not the smartest.
He got into a lease with me.
Do you know how easy it is tobreak a
Atlas (37:32):
Yes, sir.
Nice
Elizabeth (37:35):
Nice try.
Also, I've never been one tofinancially need anything from
anybody.
And what I started learningabout him is that in his past
relationships, he did that towomen where he would have them
financially dependent on him.
So that, and he was also veryquick, um, to talk about as
buying a property, to having achild, to, um, getting married.
(37:56):
It was, it was too quick.
Yeah.
And then, you know, now I, Ithink back like.
Am I a narcissist?
Do I'm not though.
Do I just think I'm amazing andeverybody falls in love with me?
No.
I've just been attractingnarcissists most of my life.
One of the things I love aboutmy partner now is he was very.
Like take things slow, and thatto me was weird.
Atlas (38:20):
Yeah, because it's, it's something you're not used to.
And this was something that mycoaching certification really
took me through was like Weassociate love with the love
that we saw growing up, which isa love bomb.
Yeah.
Depending on what love we sawgrowing up, right?
Mm-hmm.
It's like, but whatever love youwere around while your brain was
forming.
Like that's what you think loveis.
And so you keep reenacting thatdynamic and it actually takes
(38:41):
intentional work to step backand go, maybe love is taking
things slow.
Yeah.
Instead of being love bombed,but then it's this really weird
like rewiring your brain.
And some people, it's like, Ihave clients come to me and
they're like, well, I'm notgetting love bombed.
Does he even care?
Elizabeth (38:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, it's a real
Atlas (38:56):
And I'm like, no.
It's so precious that he'swilling to move slowly with you.
Elizabeth (39:00):
So precious because we want that honeymoon phase
always.
And then we like to move intothe trauma and the drama and the
cra like that seems
Atlas (39:07):
Yeah,
Elizabeth (39:08):
You know?
I even had these thoughts andit's funny because I feel like,
I don't know if you feel this, alot of the time my clients are
teaching me.
It's something I'm going throughOh, for sure.
That I need to see.
Yeah.
And I remember thinking.
Is this boring?
Is my boyfriend boring?
And then I, you know, I was insuch a process of rewiring where
(39:30):
I knew, I, I knew for a fact Iwas loving wrong.
I was in relationships wrong.
And I remember one of myaffirmations was, he is
everything you have prayed forbut didn't work for.
He's everything you've prayedfor, but you haven't worked for.
Because I, I had it
Atlas (39:45):
Yeah.
Elizabeth (39:46):
when we were dating.
In the very early stages, likethe talking, I remember it was a
full moon and I went outside andI just started like asking the
universe.
There was two people I wasdating and one of'em just looked
like every guy I've ever dated,I.
Atlas (40:00):
Yeah.
Elizabeth (40:01):
it was him.
And I just asked the universelike, you're gonna have to help
me.
Like I, I don't know what to do.
We have to remove one.
And the, the one that needed tobe removed didn't call me for
three days.
There you go.
And when he came back into town,I say.
I had a conversation with themoon, and I just need you to
know that I picked somebody elseand the moon helped.
And he was like, I totally, Irespect that.
(40:23):
It was so good.
Good.
But um, yeah, I had to rewire mywhole brain.
Mm-hmm.
And now my favorite thing to dois to be as boring as possible.
Yeah.
And you know, even sometimeswhen we have our moments, me and
my partner, I'm just like, lookat us all cute.
Yeah.
Because it's so
Atlas (40:39):
Yeah.
And peaceful.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Elizabeth (40:42):
And it's secure.
And you know what the worst partabout, um, kids that dealt with
trauma is that at our court,it's what we want.
It's just not familiar to us.
Mm-hmm.
And the familiar feels familiar.
Atlas (40:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the familiar sometimes feelsless scary mm-hmm.
Than the unknown.
Yeah.
Even if the unknown ispotentially gonna be way better,
it's like we'll stay in the painthat we're familiar with, with
rather than risk something new.
Elizabeth (41:08):
That's why so many women, um, it's so hard for them
to leave and
Atlas (41:12):
Go back after they do again.
Elizabeth (41:14):
and then I get very upset because, um.
When people don't understandthat, you know, because I work
with these women all the time,and when people don't understand
well, she looks so successfuland so yeah, there's way more
going on.
Nobody likes to be abused.
No.
Especially when it's physical.
Nobody likes that.
So what would you say are someof the things women can do if
(41:36):
they recognize that they're in atoxic situation and they need to
get out?
Atlas (41:40):
Um, honestly, like first thing is get support.
you can like, preferablyprofessional support if you can
get a therapist or even likecall hotline, like talk to
somebody that's trained insupporting you for going through
abuse.
Um, and then the other thingthat I would just really
encourage anyone to do is like,stay attuned to your experience.
Stay with your nervous system.
(42:01):
Stay with the emotions that arecoming up because those are what
are, will eventually hold youand guide you out if you try to
shut down your experience andpretend it's not happening.
Elizabeth (42:11):
Oh, that's what you mean by that?
Yeah.
So basically gaslighting
Atlas (42:13):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
If, if on top of it all, you'realso telling yourself that
everything's fine, you're alsoabandoning.
your this.
Elizabeth (42:20):
This is normal.
This is normal behavior.
Exactly.
I'm the one who made him upset.
Atlas (42:25):
So the first step is admitting to yourself that
you're even in one.
Yeah.
You know?
And being real with yourselfabout your partner's behavior
and how you actually feel andnot pretending that everything's
fine.
Elizabeth (42:35):
That's great advice.
It actually, I mean, the more wetalk about it, it's like a drug.
I had somebody call me today andsay, how can we get this person
into treatment?
I go, you don't get people intotreatment.
They have to recognize
Atlas (42:47):
yeah, yeah,
Elizabeth (42:48):
like no one's, no one locked me in a van and took me
to treatment.
I had to realize it for myself.
Atlas (42:53):
totally.
Um.
Elizabeth (42:54):
that's incredible.
I do wanna get to your poetrybook.
Yeah.
Um, because you're not just aconnection coach, you also do
movement.
And, and just like most of uscreatives right?
We don't just do one thing.
Yeah.
Um, when people ask like, whatkind of coach I am, I'm like, so
like I do reiki and talent.
Yeah.
like there's so many things thatI do.
But again, not everything is foreverybody.
(43:15):
So I love that you were able toput one of your passions on
print.
So tell us about it.
It's called, there is a page inhere about you, which by the
way, it's so cute.
I love this.
Atlas (43:27):
yeah, yeah.
This is a really preciousproject.
Project to me.
I started it years ago and justnow finished it last December.
Um, and Basically theinspiration behind it.
I talked to individual peopleabout things that they were
going through, and I wrote eachpoem based on that.
So each poem you're gonna love.
This is named after SomebodyReal that I talked to about the
(43:51):
thing that,
Elizabeth (43:51):
Do you ask permission?
Yes.
You're just naming poetry.
if I I love that.
Atlas (43:56):
And so, yeah, it's called, there's a Patient Here
About You, because each poem isnamed and In addition to that,
through writing it, it was likeeveryone I talked to was going
through the same stuff.
it was like so beautiful as ahuman to just see like, wow,
we're all on the same journey.
In a different costume, in adifferent place.
Yes.
You know?
(44:17):
Um, and like as a writer it wasso challenging'cause I'm like,
how do I write about the samething in 20 different ways?
Um, but it was just like sobeautiful and it made me feel so
connected to the humanexperience and
Elizabeth (44:29):
Have you written your whole life?
Atlas (44:31):
Have I written my whole life?
I would say I discovered mypassion for poetry through the
slam poetry scene in college.
Okay.
Um, and I started like competingand it was just a really.
I find articulation to be verytherapeutic.
The process of turning myinternal world into something
tangible that someone else canread Yeah.
(44:53):
Is like really cathartic for meand totally plugs into my
coaching work too.
Like one of the things that I'mso passionate about is helping
people learn how to communicate.
I love that.
'cause we all All have thisinternal experience and we all
like desire to be understood init.
Yeah.
And some of us feel like wedon't know how.
and so poetry for me is this wayof like.
Constantly turning inward andgiving a voice to the voiceless,
(45:15):
you know?
Ugh.
And then through that process, Ifeel less alone and the reader
feels less alone
Elizabeth (45:20):
So where can people get your book?
Atlas (45:21):
through my Instagram.
I don't have a link or a websiteyet.
Um, but my Instagram is justAtlas flow, and you can shoot me
a DM on there.
And I've got a hundred copiesleft to sell.
Elizabeth (45:31):
That's awesome.
and we'll definitely put that inour link in, you know, our
everything for the podcast.
I do wanna ask, um, how are youshowing up to take care of
yourself?
Because I know.
um, I'm constantly helpingpeople figure out how to show up
for themselves and take care ofthemselves.
But as a coach, sometimes Islip.
(45:51):
Um, so how do you do it as acoach?
Atlas (45:53):
Yeah, I love that question and it's something that
I'm digging into extra rightnow, and honestly, it's my
creativity.
Mm.
It's, it's showing Up to mypractices and having a form of
like devotion in my life.
I find that if I'm showing up toa practice every day, whether it
be writing or movement, um, itnourishes the relationship that
(46:18):
I have with myself.
Uhhuh gives me space to check inand even know how I'm doing.
Um, right now, I would say likemy biggest practice is through
movement.
Elizabeth (46:26):
I love that.
Atlas (46:27):
Yeah, it's definitely a, a pillar of my life.
And that's so great.
Connecting with my loved onesis,
Elizabeth (46:34):
That's a great one.
Atlas (46:34):
yeah.
Yeah.
Elizabeth (46:35):
And I don't think people realize that you can move
in your kitchen.
you can move in your living room100%.
You can move on the dance
Atlas (46:41):
Yes.
Elizabeth (46:42):
times in the grocery store.
'cause I'm 42 now and my jamsare all at the grocery store
apparently.
Woo.
It's like my whole playlist.
Atlas (46:48):
Like what?
It's funny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
you can do it sitting in bed,you know?
Elizabeth (46:52):
Yeah, you know what?
We just, um, got over beingreally sick and I got back into
like bed yoga.
Mm-hmm.
Because there wasn't a lot thatI could do.
I was feeling really dizzy andstuff and I was like, oh God,
just in your own bed.
And it's 10 minutes and it's allover YouTube and it's a great
way to start and end your
Atlas (47:09):
Totally.
Elizabeth (47:10):
Really, it's just 10 minutes because we are such a.
Go, go, go.
Culture.
We're always on our phones.
We don't realize how much timewe are not spending with
ourselves, with ourselves.
100%.
Atlas (47:21):
And then it's no wonder we get lost in our specific
relationships because we'redisconnected from ourselves
entirely.
We're not even noticing thatwe're anxious all day, every
day, Unless you have a practicewhere you actually check in with
yourself And go like wow,there's something going on
within me that doesn't feelright, because we're not all
there.
Elizabeth (47:36):
A lot of us don't even know how to do that.
No.
Like society doesn't teach ushow to listen to our bodies.
Atlas (47:41):
not at all.
Elizabeth (47:42):
You know, so, yeah, that's great.
Um, I definitely wanna have youback and I would love to do like
a movement thing and you canteach our listeners how to move,
but I'm just so grateful thatyou came and thank you for
everything that you taught us.
Um, if you resonate with thisepisode, please share it.
I mean, I think this is anepisode that everyone should
hear and everybody has likeabout five friends that you can
(48:02):
send it to and be like, listenma'am, I think you're going
through this, or you um, youknow.
I don't think we can heal andgrow unless we have grace for
who we were.
And you know, it took me a longtime to realize that I can't
keep being mad at that personbecause I didn't know better.
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
I didn't know that I was in anarcissistic relationship.
(48:24):
You obviously knew you werebeing sucked into a cult, so
we're very excited that.
that didn't work.
And you you're outta that Oh.
Um, and yeah, I would love tohave you back.
So thank you so much for being
Atlas (48:35):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
Elizabeth Vajello (48:38):
Okay.
Now for the legal stuff, youknow the important things that I
have to say, this podcast is foreducational and entertainment
purposes only.
I'm just a life coach, not alicensed therapist.
Not a licensed psychotherapist.
This is not a substitute foradvice from a doctor, therapist,
or any other qualified expert.
Got great.
(48:59):
See you in the next episode.
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