LDS Sexuality: Where is the line? With Karina Johns

Explore with us statistics of attitudes towards and behaviors related to sexaulity within the context of the LDS faith.

You'll learn what most young members believe is acceptable before marriage, what people believe is acceptable within marriage, and more!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome back to this Part 2 of episode 2, I guess episode 3 now
of the Utah Stats podcast, but Part 2 with our friend Karina
here. And we're going to be talking
about sexuality within the LDS church some more.
We talked a lot in our first episode together about the
repentance process, especially for sexual matters and kind of

(00:21):
like what the experience is likefor members and how people, you
know, work through that, right? So today we're going to talk
talk about some more light hearted things and kind of
explore the actual sexual attitudes and behaviors of
members prior to and after marriage.
So Karina, what I'm going to do is I'm going to read off some
statistics about what members believe is acceptable before

(00:42):
marriage, and you're going to guess them and then I'm going to
tell you if you're wrong. I'm just kidding.
OK, here we go. So essentially I surveyed about
780 young Latter Day Saints, mostly living in Utah in between
the ages of 18 and 30. And I asked them assuming
consent, at what point? Are they married or unmarried?
Or is it a mix of both? A mix of both.

(01:02):
OK. For context going into this,
actually this is a good note. Essentially, I kind of
aggregated the perspectives on what's OK and what's not OK
before marriage into a metric I call chastity points.
I didn't know what else to call it and and.
So a metric to to make it easieracross the board.
Yeah, yeah. And so I can aggregate.
OK. How do they feel about touching,
you know, boobs or genitals or seeing, you know, whatever it

(01:24):
is, it's all together. Yeah.
So it's all in one metric. So essentially, I aggregated
that together. And then I compared the
relationship status of individuals who took the survey
and found that the most sexuallyconservative individuals who
believe that things should, should, you know, stay until
marriage are those who are single and those who are
married. Those who are currently in
relationships and those who are currently engaged were

(01:45):
statistically more sexually liberal in their beliefs of
what's OK before marriage compared to those who are single
and married. That's so interesting, but
single and married, kind of. Yeah, I feel like because single
folk are like, OK, you know, like they, they have a clear
head and they aren't filled withall these emotions and hormones.
Like, oh, yeah, this logically makes the most sense.
And when you're in a relationship, you're like, well,
I mean, this is really nice. I think we're OK, You know what

(02:06):
I mean? I also think like single and
married single people are thinking would I be OK with that
with my future spouse? And then I feel like married is
thinking if my spouse did that. But I feel like in a
relationship and engaged, they're like, well, like meh
because we're like exploring. OK.
Maybe that could be a context, but again, like I I know that
when I personally took the survey, I was like, Oh my

(02:28):
goodness, if my husband did that, I would be.
That's so funny. Like.
That or like, I would be enraged.
Like are you kidding? Like but.
That's so funny. All right, You ready to guess
now? They kind of statistically
aligned, single and married, like statistically aligned with
a lot of things. Yeah, Yeah.
It is really interesting. I think that my theory is that

(02:51):
married people have kind of cooled off from the heat of
relationship and are like, OK, yeah, looking back, you know, I
probably they should have been like a little bit better in this
regard, You know what I mean? That's exactly how we took this
survey. Right.
I was like, yeah, we probably shouldn't have pushed that
boundary, did we? You know, But like.
That right? But it is what it is.

(03:11):
We're here now, right? That is what.
It is in hindsight, we both lookback and we're like we probably
shouldn't have done that, but wehave a really strong bond and
relationship now. Knowledge.
There are things we could have done better at, but you know,
we're married now, things are fine.
Exactly. Exactly.
So let's go into some of these then, and I'm going to ask you
what percent of active young Latter Day Saints believe this

(03:32):
is OK before married? It's the first thing.
I feel like growing up, I was told a lot about avoiding
passionate kissing, right? Or like making out, right?
But now we also have this big NICMO culture in Utah too, you
know? And so I was curious, you know,
how many people actually think that making out should stay and
tell marriage, right? So how many people do you think
responded and said, what percentage of individuals say
that this should, you know, waituntil marriage?

(03:55):
Like saying they should wait until marriage I think is a very
low statistic. I think that a lot of people,
especially in Utah, don't think anything of making out anymore.
Yeah, like I feel like. I feel like it's only like
really devoutly religious peoplewho are like, no, like wouldn't,
there's nothing wrong with it, like your boundaries, your
relationship, whatever. But I feel like a lot of people
are like, like, I feel like it'svery few and far between to be

(04:15):
like our first kiss or whatever was our wedding day.
Like I'm like what? For sure, for sure, for sure.
The statistic is 1.5%. Yeah, leave.
It's not surprising. Yeah.
How many do you think indicated that you should at least wait
until you're in a relationship to make out versus it being a
casual thing? I would say it's I probably, it
would probably be lower, I wouldsay.

(04:36):
And then obviously the first step I'd say probably not.
I think it would probably be 5050.
Yeah, yeah, about. That I know.
I know that I wasn't a huge Nicmo person because I was like,
if I don't know, I don't know you like that, like.
Yeah, right. Yeah, Yeah, about 43% of people
think that you should at least wait until you're in a

(04:58):
relationship to make out, right.So that I think kind of makes
sense, right? You know, it's not not a huge
deal, right? But when hands are being placed
on each other, then people startto have opinions, right?
You know what I mean? And so I asked, OK, you know,
often times I feel like the the law of chastity is broken down
into what parts of the body are being punched and is it over

(05:20):
clothes or is it under clothes, right?
And so the next statistic I asked is when or is it OK to
feel someone's butt before marriage, right?
So what percentage do you think said no, you were not allowed to
do that before marriage, You should wait.
Touching their body. Yeah, don't.
Don't touch their gunfire. Marriage.
How many believe that? I would say that's still

(05:41):
probably a pretty low staff for me.
I'd say it's probably like 30% of people are like don't do
that, but like 17. Percent and that that makes.
Sense to me because I'm like, I don't think it's a big deal to
like touch someone's butt. Like like I don't feel like
since there's not like explicit genitalia attached to like, but
like I don't think that it's a massive yeah, a massive deal

(06:03):
like because like I'm, I'm just thinking about like even if I
was like walking through a crowded place and someone like
accidentally like brushed up against my butt or something, I
wouldn't think anything about someone brushed up against my
vagina. I'd be like, what are you doing
like? To be fair, to be fair, I feel
like it's pretty hard. To do with you.
To be fair, I feel like it's pretty hard.
Like, I mean, something actuallybrushed up against you there

(06:25):
that some I feel like a little wrong.
You know what I mean? Yeah, I think it's hard.
To actually. Actually brush up I think.
It's a really extreme example, but like.
Yeah, right now. I don't think it like.
No for sure. But it has to be like explicitly
sexual. OK.
Yeah, yeah. And so I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, most people do thinkthat you should wait until

(06:45):
you're in a committed relationship to do that, right?
But again, only about 17% of people think that it is morally
wrong to do it prior to marriage, right?
So let's move on to the more divisive ones now, because this
is where it gets like, like a little bit more interesting,
right? And again, we will break this
down by like, you know, over and, and underneath clothes
because that seems to be a big divider, right?
So, so talking about when it's OK to touch a woman's breast,

(07:08):
right? How many do you think said it is
morally acceptable who took the woman's breast over clothes
prior to marriage? How many believe it's OK to
touch it over clothes prior to marriage?
Like part of me wants to say 5050 but I know it's not going
to be 50. 505050. Is it really?
It's fifty 5050.8% of members actually shocked.

(07:29):
Me that I was right about that. And I want to say like, I know
this is the second time we've done this podcast.
I don't remember very well. All that was like genuinely
shocking to me. OK, yeah.
Because at the same time it's like, I don't know, it's 5050.
Like I feel like over clothes, Iwould expect it to be a little
bit more even. I feel like when it's, well
actually I think this is my prediction, is that when it

(07:51):
comes to genitalia, it'll be a little bit more divisive and
under the clothes I feel like will be more decisive.
As well. That is correct.
So guess how many? So that was the statistic on
feeling a woman's breast over clothes.
How many active Latter Day Saints do you believe think that
it is morally acceptable to detect a woman's breast under
clothes prior to marriage? I'm going to go 20% see I'm on a

(08:17):
roll guy since I was like, I feel like, you know, over
clothes is 5050. I would say probably maybe 1/4
because I feel like like that the clothes is going to chop off
1/4 of that like about half of the people who were who were
with, you know, touching over clothes once under clothes
happens. I feel like about half of them
about 5050 with that, yeah. You want to know an interesting

(08:40):
thing? The same amount of people who
believe that it is not OK to touch breasts under clothes is
the same amount of people who believe that it is not more
acceptable to touch someone's. Genitalia over clothes.
Correct. Yeah, yeah.
Because I feel like under genitalia, under clothes is
going to be the least correct. Because I think that when things
get a little bit complex. Only 15% of active young members

(09:03):
of the church do believe that itis morally acceptable to touch
someone's generals under clothesprior to marriage.
But I also think I, I'm not surprised by that stat as I also
think that like the spectrum of it, like we started, excuse me,
we started very innocent and then we get towards like
personal, less innocent. I think where if you think about

(09:24):
it and like how easily it would be to segue to pedestrians, sex
from those or have things, for lack of a better term, escalate
to intercourse, start making outlike, yeah, it's possible.
But like by the time clothes areoff and you're like touching to
failure, I think at that point it becomes really easy for it to
escalate towards sex, you know? Yeah.

(09:45):
For sure. And then I know that a lot of
people are like, well, morally, it's explicitly told us you
should not be having sex before marriage.
So as we get closer to that, I would expect the stat to go down
and it it shows. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And to further and to further illustrate this point with, with
clothing being kind of a, a big factor here is we also asked,

(10:05):
you know, at what point in a relationship is it OK to see
your, your partner in underwear and to see them naked, right.
What percentage of active members do you think believe it
is acceptable to see their partner in underwear prior to
marriage? I'm going to say I'm still going
to stay pretty low. I'd say probably 20 to 30%.

(10:26):
But I do think that there's nuance in it because a lot of
people are like, you know, bathing suits are like the same
thing as underwear. I think that like the
distinction of like when it's acceptable to see someone in
their garments, because I do know a lot of people would I, I
feel like if we're to break it down in like underwear, like
compared to garment there, I'd be interested to see if there's
a difference in that because like seeing someone in brown

(10:47):
underwear that's basically a bikini that is a bikini
basically, or like seeing a guy in like just boxers, that's them
in a bathing suit. And I don't think that's a big
deal at all, you know? But like seeing someone in their
garment, I feel like would be more.
Of a spiritual thing. Difference.
Like, I feel like, like seeing the garment, I'd be like, oh,
like, I feel like that would be like almost a physical indicator

(11:08):
of like, I'm pushing a boundary right now, you know?
I totally should have asked and divided it out because when I
asked the question, yeah, I forgot.
Yeah, as a garment slash underwear, which because first
day I never like obviously. Obviously, you know, I view the
garment as sacred, but like, in terms of like.
But in practice, it is. It's your undergarments, right?
Yeah, that is. And I mean, I don't know how

(11:31):
long you've been in, like, wearing garments, but like, it
just becomes synonymous with my underwear.
Exactly. That's what it is.
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.
Different levels of like covenant and spirituality
attached to it. But when it comes down to it, it
is my undergarments. Yeah.
And so I see how it can be very similar.
But I would be interested to seeif there would be further like
stratification if it was specified like their underwear

(11:54):
versus like the garment, I think.
That's interesting. So the answer was 40% do believe
it is acceptable to see them in garment slash underwear prior
prior to marriage. But but then that shifts by a
lot when we asked them is it OK to see each other naked, right
and that number was only about 14% do believe that it is OK to

(12:15):
see each other naked. Yeah, and that's about what I
would expect to. Like, I think there is
definitely a level of intimacy in being naked.
I think. I mean, I remember there because
I was following the stories pretty closely after that
survey. And like, I did see like there
were some people who were like, you know, I saw my partner naked
before marriage was for this reason and stuff like that.
And like, and like I was say like my husband before we got

(12:37):
married, I think maybe we're engaged.
I can't, I think we're engaged. But my husband got really
serious mono where we don't knowbecause like his roommates had
had mono. He ran track with them.
He got really serious mono. And I also carry the mono gene.
It's inherited mother to child. So I have it, I carry it from my
mom and he had really, really serious mono, like almost had to

(13:01):
be hospitalized for it. And I remember he was like so
sick, could not move, could not get up.
And I was like, so I would I wasbasically caretaking for him.
But in that in that context, it's not sexual to like, you
know, helping him change his clothes, get ready for bed.
That wasn't sexual. I'm doing it like you're
literally like basically dying. Like it's not sexual to me, but
like it is interesting to see that there there is nuance to

(13:23):
it. Like I did, I think there was
another girl. I why did maybe I said girl cuz
she said like my husband or something like that.
But there was another person on the page who was like, no, I did
like the same thing. There's a girl.
Yeah, yeah. Like I was taking care of him
when he was sick or something orhe had just had surgery and so I
was just helping him. Yeah, it's not flexible.
And I was like, I don't think that's morally wrong.
Cuz like that's not, that's not the point of it.

(13:45):
Like you're there. You're taking tension behind it,
right? Yeah.
OK. OK, so, and here is the last
step that said I'll share to kind of drive home this whole
point with clothes being a huge thing, right?
So again, I asked, you know, I asked all these young Latter Day
Saints, at what point in a relationship is it OK to grind

(14:06):
with your partner with clothes on, right?
You know, like, is that OK before a marriage, right?
How many do you think said that it is more that it is morally
acceptable to to grind with withclothes on?
I'm going to say it's probably higher and I'm only going to say
that I like, I would say it's almost probably like 5050.
Once again. But that's. 5050.
Because I feel like going along with enigma or non committal

(14:27):
make out culture comes with durfing culture.
Really. See, I had never like.
Which, yeah, like I, I had neverlike known that it was like as
prolific as it is, but I feel like a lot of people during
Nickmos, like I feel like it's probably really common to
straddle. Yeah, and.
Stuff like that because I feel like some, I feel, I mean, I I

(14:48):
didn't participate in like hugely enigma culture.
I really, really, really like mymain Nicmo was my husband like
for like a little bit before we actually like committed to
being. In our That's so funny.
But like, I mean, like the places I would think in Utah
County where you're doing Nick MO's is usually in cars because

(15:12):
like there's like always happening.
There's roommates, there's all these things.
So I feel like usually it's happening in cars or like in
someone's room. And so I feel like often times
they're straddling involved, which I think is where like
derping culture comes from or like driving with.
Yeah, right. I was kind of surprised about
that. Like, so.
So I never actually, like asked someone for Enigmo.

(15:35):
I've kissed people like on the first date before and like, we
definitely like. What was that?
No, Yep, Yep. I mean, a few times.
Yeah. Yeah, but but like it, but it
wasn't like a hey, when I get together and make out, you know
it, you know, it was like, hey, actually, so actually a small
story I'll kind of like bring inand I will, I will kind of

(15:59):
interject in is when I was when I was in Provo and dating, I
would. So I got in the habit of asking
girls prior to to to the date, what their boundaries were and
what their expectations were in terms of just like everything,
you know, like, hey, like what are your boundaries?
What are you OK with? Yeah, right.
And yeah, right. And, and, and I mean, I asked
that because I wanted to ensure that that, you know, I didn't

(16:20):
cross a boundary and that they felt safe, that kind of thing.
But but. Also you were you were meeting
the expectation like. Of the date, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I mean, a lot of the times they were like, yeah, I mean, if
the date goes good, you know, like, I'm totally down, like,
because when I get whatever. And I was like, noted.
All right, You know what I mean?Like, all right.
Yeah. Right.
And so and so like, you know, soand it was great, you know, So,

(16:44):
yeah. But like, and so like I never
had like a nick. Like I never, you know, I never
DM someone and said, hey, if youwant to get together and just
just make out, right. You know, but I did a make out
on a first date. But like, I mean, I never did
any kind of grinding or anything.
So I was kind of surprised to hear that that was like more of
a thing because I know soaking isn't real, right.

(17:05):
Like I actually mentioned this and soaking is not real got.
Out of hand. Like it's a joke that people are
taking seriously. Like, do I think that there may
be isolated instances? Probably.
Probably. Happened probably but like.
But like, do I? It's not happening.
It is something that happens allthe time, no?
Yeah, I mean, people are doing it.

(17:25):
They're going to do it, you knowwhat I mean?
Yeah. Yeah.
Also I. Mean I can see it happening.
Like I do remember, I mean, my, my husband and I kind of like
Nick mode for a while, but it was because neither one of us
were like, we both really liked each other and like definitely
wanted to be in a relationship with each other.
But I was actively working on myrepentance process and I was

(17:46):
going through it mentally a lot.And my husband had was like
pretty new off the mission. He'd probably been like 6-6 to
nine months off the mission. And so he was like wanting to
explore dating with other people.
And I don't think that he felt like he could like sustain a
relationship. And honestly like we look back
often and are like if we had started dating after a first
date we would have broken up 100% like.

(18:07):
Oh my gosh. Because because where I was at
emotionally, like I probably would have asked for too much
and he would have felt overwhelmed by it.
And so so we did Nick MO for a while.
And so like, so like, that's why, that's why I say it
probably mostly happened in carsbecause that's where that's
where we were. We were always in cars because I
had roommates. My roommates was his little
sister. So like, so like, that's a whole

(18:30):
other kind of worms. Make out with your brother on
our couch, Yeah. Circuit parking lot was like
your best friend or like what? Frequenting Provo Canyon over by
the bridge like a tunnel like. My first kiss was in Provo
Canyon. It's like I feel like it's very,
I remember it like clear as day though.
Like it was, we had just been atBridaldale Falls.

(18:50):
He'd sat off like 6 hours and then I was like, I'm starving.
We're going to go get in and out.
He's like, I don't really want it now.
I was like, well, I'm starving so I'm getting in now and you're
coming with because we're in my car.
Nice. And then we were like coming
back and and he's like, you know, I mean, like, I need to
ask you something. And if I don't ask you, I'm
probably going to get it for therest of my life.
But do you want to make out? And I was like, yes, because I
was hoping that he would. Ask so this man actually just

(19:11):
straight have asked you do you want to make out?
Yeah, he did. Which looking back, ballsy of
him because. He's our safe like.
He is exactly. And he's so shy.
Looking back, it is so funny to think about it, but I'm like,
I'm like, but I also look back and like, you probably would
have regretted it for your wholelife because we wouldn't have
gotten married. Yeah, and all started with the
next no. Probably, but.
So for those of you who feel guilty about Nick mowing, keep

(19:33):
going because you're going to marry them, right?
Or. You're not, and that's OK.
Sometimes you nick bow with awful people and you don't want
to see them again. Yep, that's OK too.
It's OK too. So sorry, go ahead.
That's, that really doesn't surprise me because I think of
it where it's like it's super awkward to like make out over
the console of a car. So you just go to the back seat

(19:53):
and it's really easy to just. Slip into a position, Yeah.
So I mean, yeah, that was kind of that was kind of about what I
would expect. Yeah, gotcha.
Interesting, interesting. So with so with all these,
what's been or what is your takeon what you believe is morally
acceptable in the context of thechurch?

(20:14):
Like what do you think? Like is there a line or the
different for others or or is itpretty rigid?
Like what is that? I think that it, I think we're
moving away from absolutes in the church and I think that's
actually like a really good thing.
I do think like I think I think really like one of my formative
ideas of the law of chastity waslike this video that we'd see in

(20:34):
young women's where it's like a hand drawing these things as
they talk about things. And it's like before marriage do
not do anything to arouse the powerful emotions that should
only exist in marriage or something like that.
And I think about that a lot. And I remember I was like, this
is corny when I like watching itin young women.
But I do think that like like I do in ways agree with that.
Like there are some really powerful emotions that exist in

(20:56):
marriage and when those arise, it's probably a good time,
especially if you're not married, to take a step back.
Like we are probably headed really fast towards something
that maybe both of us would regret or are not ready for.
And so I do think that like it is important to think about what
that line is. And I also think finding that
line for you personally is a really important thing.

(21:18):
Like for me, I believe that likewhen clothes start coming off,
that is the line. OK.
Like if you are actively considering to like considering
taking clothes off, that's when things get a little bit iffy for
me where I'm like, you know what?
Or especially like taking off your garment like that for me.
Yeah. Like that was an indicator for
me. I'm like, oh, I'm crossing a

(21:39):
line right now because my garment is off.
Like that is like for me becauselike those are physical
representations of my covenants and I've taken them off like.
Yeah, yeah. I'm like obviously in marriage,
like it's fine. Like, you know, why are you
having sex with your garments on?
That's really weird. Don't do that like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like they tell you in the
temple, like don't do that. Like that's weird.

(22:01):
But like, I do think that, like,that is the indication, like
when clothes start coming off, like, that's when things get
morally hairy for me. Yeah.
Just again, I think once clothesstart coming off, that's where
things get a little dicey for me.
Like, I think that is a really tangible, I don't know,
indicator for me of like, this is probably not the best idea or
like, this is when I'm starting to push things.

(22:22):
Unlike for some people, like, your boundaries for what you
believe, like the law of chastity is would be touching.
Like if you're touching my boobsor my butt, like over or under
my clothes. Like, that would be like, I can
see someone easily saying that that is their boundary, and
that's totally fine. Yeah.
Those are your personal boundaries.
For me, my love language is physical touch.
Like I love to be close to people.

(22:43):
And so for me, like I'm OK, I think morally with like they're
being touched, but not like whenmy clothes start coming off and
it's different. And even I would say even
genitalia over clothing, I thinktouching specifically genitalia,
I think is a moral thing for me too.
Because I just think that for like, I know me and obviously I

(23:04):
have a lot of experience throughout my life.
I know me. And when that happens, it is
pretty quickly going to escalatefurther than that.
And so I think like for me as someone who was like explorative
with like my sexuality and stuff, like I know for me what
would escalate to things. And so that's my personal

(23:26):
boundary. But for other people, like based
on your sexual experience, like it could be more or less than
what I think you know. Yeah.
OK. Thank you.
Thank you. So how about after marriage?
So here is some context. There was a letter sent out and
I think the 1980s or 90s to wardand state leadership that
essentially instructed warden state leaders and mainly bishops

(23:48):
and state residents to kind of withhold recommends if the
members engage in oral sex, essentially, right.
And and so, yeah, so that was quickly kind of done away with.
And it was never like in an official like, you know, yeah,
whatever, right. But for a while, a lot of people
were like, well, is this OK? Is this not you know, so is

(24:10):
oral. Next to.
You're like, OK, is there thingsthat in marriage are not OK?
Right. And so I asked and I'll just
summarize to be quick, but only about 4.4% of members still
believe that it is morally wrongto do oral sex in marriage.
So it it's a little bit higher for anal sex.

(24:32):
It's about 11.5 percent of members who believe it is wrong
even in marriage. And so, yeah.
So what's your take on on what is wrong and what is OK in
marriage? I mean, is there a wrong in
marriage? I think, I don't think, well,
let me think about how I want tofreeze this.
I don't think that there is facts that are wrong, if that

(24:56):
makes sense. So like, I don't think that oral
sex is wrong. I don't think that anal sex is
wrong in marriage. Would I do it personally?
No, but that's my my personal opinion, you know, but I think
that what comes down to it is the attitude behind it.
I think that, you know, most things in a marriage are between
the people participating. And so I think what it comes

(25:19):
down to me is if they're both consenting and agreeing to what
is happening. So like, I would have a problem
with anal sex in a marriage if one of the partners wasn't
entirely on board with it, you know, Because that is like, it's
all. About consent.
Yeah, it's all about consent. It's all about agreement.
Like, you know, I don't think itwould be right for someone to
engage in like, anal sex if theyweren't comfortable doing it.

(25:42):
You know, like maybe someone be like, oh, let's try it.
But if they're if it starts and they're like, actually, I really
don't like this. And the other person's like,
well, I do and we're going to keep doing it.
That's a problem. Like that's not healthy
communication. That's not healthy.
Like sex should always be a two person, like a two person tango.
Like it shouldn't be one person's enjoying and the other
person's not like, and so, you know, what people do in their

(26:06):
bedroom is totally up to them. I don't really think that.
Like I also don't really think like the church again is moving
away from absolutes. I think that, you know, they're
like, we shouldn't be asking what's going on in people's
bedrooms. It's not our business.
Like as long as both partners are consenting and agreeing and
safe, then it should be be fine.And I, I think the same also
goes with like kinks and stuff like that.
Like whatever you do, as long asyou are consenting and agreeing

(26:30):
and both are in agreement of what is happening and they're
checking in constantly if thingsare OK, then you know, all power
to you. What percent of of married
couples do you think actually participate in both oral and
anal sex? In both.
Or sexy? Yeah, each individually.

(26:50):
I would feel, I would think thatoral sex is probably much higher
than anal sex. Yes, way higher, yeah.
And I also think it's because a lot of the time I think anal sex
has, I think it's pretty stigmatizing also.
I think so. It's just like, I feel like a
lot of people are like, like, I mean, if you do, you do, but
like I feel like a lot of peopleare like, that's my pooper.
Like things don't go in my pooper.

(27:11):
They come out of my pooper. Yeah.
It's like, why is that when I can, you know, like, yeah.
Yeah, Yeah. So I would, I mean, I would
think that anal sex would probably be much lower.
Only about 17.6% of this survey of about 200 married couples for
port doing anal sex, but about 91.5% say that they do oral sex.

(27:31):
In their marriage and that that's exactly what I would
expect. Like I think and I think
honestly like of what I've heardlike of my friends and and like
people that I've talked to most people who have like who have
responded, they have done anal sex.
A lot of them is like we tried it.
We won't continue. Hey, you know it.
Wasn't that great? Yeah.
Like we're trying it. It was not for us like and

(27:52):
that's why. Speaking of talking with
friends, there is actually, there's actually a statistic
that I didn't share in our firstrun through about how much
people talk about their sex lives with the people.
And I think this is where we'll probably start to wrap things
up, but it's a really, it's a really interesting thing that I
want to do. So I'll start off by saying that

(28:13):
women statistically talk with others more about their sex life
than men. Understandable, right we have
about everything yeah right. I will say love my friends like
it does take like there's a deeper friendship that I need to
have with someone to feel comfortable talking about my sex
life like. For sure, it isn't like in like
you walk into relief study and you're like, yo, last night.
Tell you about those things, They're right.

(28:34):
No, but I'm saying like, so I mentioned earlier, Spencer's
wife is like one of my best friends.
She and I sorry Spencer, but sheand I will talk.
So it's like, sorry, Spencer, ifthat's invasive, but she and I
will talk about things like thateven before they were married.
Like, I would be like, can I tell you about this?
But that's also because she and I are best friends.
Like we talk about everything. She's actually your sister,
pretty much. I know she's literally my wife

(28:54):
but that's besides the point. Like I'm literally obsessed
with. Her.
That's right. She's like my best friend in the
whole world. And so like, there has to be
like, I don't like, I don't think I'm comfortable enough to
just be like flippantly talking about sex with everyone.
But like, if it's someone I'm really close to, I'm really
comfortable with, then yeah. But I'm not just like, like I
said, not walking into really society being like, let me tell

(29:15):
you about the fun I had like. Yeah, right.
Something like that. For sure, sure, both men and
women are more likely to talk with their friend about a sex
life than like a parent or a sibling generally, right?
So what percentage? OK, this is crazy.
What percentage of women do you think responded and and said
that they never talk about sex with a friend?
So how many women are like like lips tight and never talk with

(29:39):
friends about their sex life? And this is only of married
couples. This is of a woman who do have a
do have a sex life. Never do I feel like it would be
low. OK.
Because like I feel like. What do you think?
Less than 20%. Yep, you're right.
So so only 15% of women in the survey say that they never talk
with a friend about their sex life.

(30:01):
And like, and I feel like that makes sense because like, yes,
we talk, but there are people who are shy, you know, like
they're just like, you know, what happens in my bedroom is
private and like. That's valid, I do.
Feel like I feel like it is a really normal thing.
I feel like when my friend and Istarted talking about like our
sex like or like sex with me, itwas leading up to when she got
married and like right after. I think where she's like, you

(30:24):
know, because I think, I think all of us are curious.
I think I think it honestly links to another like the other
stats where it's like women and to have a harder time
transitioning into having sexualrelations.
Like, am I weird? Am I different?
Am I alone? Yeah.
Am I weird or is this weird or does this this feel good?
What do you do? Like, what do you think about
this? And so I think it is, I do think

(30:46):
it is a little bit more common amongst women to kind of
congregate and like kind of makesure that we're not alone in
things. Yeah.
And I also think it it kind of does.
I mean, I feel like it kind of does link to like the other
thoughts about like or what we were saying before where it's
like, you know, I feel like the male experience is very linear.
I also feel like men are generally a little bit more

(31:06):
private and awkward. Yeah, I think so too.
And so, but, you know, I feel like since there's so much
nuance to, like, female sexual experience, like it, it's pretty
normal to for girls to be like, you know, what do you like, what
works for you, stuff like that. Yeah.
Same with like the concept of like, you know, if one woman
goes to the bathroom, 100 women go to the bathroom, they'll have
to go and support each other. That's right that's right.

(31:28):
So I want to follow up and ask so it's about 40% of women who
say that they talk with their with a friend about their sex
life at least once a month. 44% say that they do it rarely, you
know, so about a few times a year or less, right.
And it's they're only about 20% of men actually talk about it
with their friends once a month or more often so.

(31:50):
That is interesting. Yeah.
For me, I would think it might be even lower.
But then again, I'm thinking in like the context is like my
husband and his friends. I feel like they probably would
never or like if they are, they're like joking around, you
know, where they're never like seriously discussing like what
goes on in our bedroom. I feel like I would be shocked
if my husband did for sure because he is he is so shy.

(32:12):
Pregnant and. So awkward.
And so like, well, even what I mean, I don't know.
Well, he is kind of private, butI don't know if it's necessarily
that he's private, but he's justlike, I don't even know how I'd
bring that up. Like I feel so awkward.
Like so sex, am I right? Like.
Yeah, like. So like question then.
So I mean, if you don't mind me asking, like, what with your
conversations of friends who have talked about how they talk

(32:34):
about sex, right? You know, like, what is the
nature of these conversations? Like, do do us husbands need to
be worried? No, I really.
Or is it more about the female experience?
Like, like, what's the nature ofthat?
I would say like when, when I I really only talk about like sex
with very few people really. Like it's specific people that I
do. But like when we do, it's either

(32:54):
like, Oh my goodness, we did this.
It was so good. Or like, you know, if you want
to have really great sex, like go on a cruise because like
there's nothing else to do some days like or you know, no or, or
it's like like we tried something, it wasn't, it was or
was not good or something like that.
But I feel like, I mean, it's atleast for my conversations, it's

(33:15):
never like griping about things.It's more like, oh, this was
really good. What?
Like what works like, hey, you need to try this.
You're like, hey, you should like, Yeah, OK.
Yeah, like, I don't think, I don't mean, I don't really think
that we ever like gripe about about anything.
It's mostly like. Wins like.
This was so good. Like really?
OK, OK, gotcha. You're like, I'm going to end

(33:37):
this podcast and go ask my wife.No, right?
No, no. Yeah, I know.
I mean my wife personally does not talk talk with her friends
about it. Yeah.
Just because I think that that'sjust more like, you know,
personality, right? I think I probably do more than
her. But even then, I feel like mine
is mostly like more physical, like, like I'll text my friends
like, hey, I was doing the survey and found out that, you
know, that these people, you know, And so it's more like

(33:57):
about like just yeah, you know, in general, right.
So. Yeah, it's more relative.
Yeah. Yeah.
But then again, I'm sure there are people that get together and
like, gripe and be like, Oh my goodness, it was so bad.
Or like it was so awkward. Did not.
Hate my husband. Not kidding.
Yeah. Yeah, I hate my husband.
I'm going to kill him in his sleep.
Yeah, right. Oh, yeah.
But I mean, I'm sure there are women that are like probably

(34:18):
sexually dissatisfied and maybe gossip a little bit with their
friends about it. Or I even I actually probably
would be more inclined to think that.
Like if they are sexually dissatisfied, they'd be less
willing to talk about it becausethey want other people to know
that's fair that they are. You want to brag about it and be
like, yo, I got to tell you something, but you don't want to
say like, yeah, it's not going very well, You know what I mean?

(34:40):
Yeah. I do think I will say I feel
like here in Utah, especially when people are like relatively
like going into marriage generally across board sexually
inexperienced. I do think that maybe there
might be less of talking about like I feel like it might be a
little bit different where like if they are struggling, like
maybe they would talk to their friend and be like, hey, like

(35:01):
I'm like, I'm just, I'm confused.
Like I don't know, like it's notthat good.
Like, yeah, like do you also have that?
Because I know that like they probably would seek like a
little bit of community and not like what can I do to help?
Like for sure I can maybe see that.
OK, OK, yeah, for sure. So I'm talking about things that
like like work or like or like, you know, have been helpful

(35:24):
because it sounds like a lot of conversations are like, you
know, hey, try this, do this, you know, whatever.
Right. So yeah, I want to share some
chats, stats in closing about what some married couples have
talked about that that they use.And then I want to hear if it
surprises you and if you personally recommend be like,
hey, if there are any engaged ormarried folks out there, please
try this, right? You know what I mean?

(35:44):
Like. Yeah, feel like can confirm
chef's kiss like. Yeah, right.
So, so the first most commonly used is lingerie, right, I
think, I think that that it is no surprise, right.
So about 88%. Yeah, very common Bachelorette
gift. Like, yeah, right.
And same with lubricant, right, Especially if you're about to
get married. Like that's like if you like the

(36:05):
most like. Yeah, most commonly Bachelorette
gifted thing. I think.
I also think, I mean, I feel like, I don't know, I feel like
sometimes people are like kind of like stigmatize Lube a little
bit, yeah, where it's like, like, it's not like you
shouldn't need it if it's good. And I'm like, no, I feel like
I've heard that before. And I'm like, you can just be

(36:25):
wrong. Like that's fine.
Like like I feel like, I feel like it's super necessary and
great like. And everyone's different, right?
Yeah. There's like used coconut.
It's the best like. Coconut, yeah.
It's like 30 bucks though so it is pricey but like worth it.
Like you ever wonder if rich people like buy like fancier

(36:46):
Lube? Like if there are poor people.
Buying like boozy Lube. There's there like Gucci Lube.
Yeah, right. Can you imagine?
And. What's like right now and what's
like the like low brand, like the gas station like level?
Gas station Lube is like Astroglide.
Nice. OK.
Because that's the one that's like what, 3 bucks?
That we do like a tier list of lubes like.

(37:08):
Well, it was really funny. So like for my Bachelorette
party or like one of my bridal showers, my aunt.
So to give context, I'm like on the older side of my cousins.
Like my my mom got married firstin her family.
Most of my cousins are like children like.
Nice. I am usually age wise, closer in
age to my aunts and uncles than I am to their kids.

(37:29):
And so it was really funny for my bachelor or for what I think
it's my bridal shower. She gave us like a cute little
like there wasn't really lingerie, but it was like a cute
little like thing or something. But then she also gave a like
and my sister and I got married a month apart.
And so it was like a dual bridalshower and she gave both of us a
coconut Lube and she was like, this is our favorite.

(37:49):
It's the best one. We've tried a bunch.
And I was, and I was like, Oh, you're talking about my uncle
right now. You like?
You, yeah. But but can't confirm coconut is
like. Why is it better?
S tier. It's oil based though, which is
not. Oil, OK.
So. For those who don't know,
because I think a lot of people may not know, especially if you

(38:10):
are not married like that, that there are different types of
lubes. So do you want to go to that?
Yes. So there are there are a couple
different types of Lube. There are oil based, there's
silicone based and then there's water based.
It is important to know the difference because some of them
do react differently with with condoms.
And some stain. So like using like a silicone
based Lube with condoms? I I think it's silicone based is

(38:34):
not. Recommended.
So yeah. Because it can deteriorate the
condom or something like that. I I would assume.
But but also we're trying to conceive, so who cares?
But water based lubes are generally the cheapest.
Like Astroglide. They're they're relatively
inexpensive to make. Fun fact, Astroglide was made on
accident. It was Astroglide because it was
developed as a lubricant for rockets.

(38:55):
Yeah. And then I don't really know
where the scientists figured that would also be good in bed,
but but that's that's how life is made.
Isn't that crazy? I saw I saw a video about it the
other day. But water based lubes are good.
They're relatively inexpensive, but they do dry out quickly.
So if like if you apply it and then it's kind of short lasting

(39:18):
hanging out, then it can dry andyou'll need to use more oil
based lubes. I actually prefer which is which
is what coconut is. Oil based lubes are really nice
because they don't dry out, but it also can be kind of annoying
because they don't dry out. So it requires a little bit more
cleanup that and like because they're oil based they can like
Discolor. Things.

(39:38):
Oh, understand. But I mean I feel like most this
is so funny, but I do feel like most couples have like their
designated sex towel and so likeif you don't care about your sex
towel that who cares like. That's so funny.
And so like, I mean, it's for everyone.
I recommend really trying, trying a bunch of different
things like and seeing what works for you.

(39:58):
I know that like we, we tried a couple different things.
Like I remember our my bridal showers bachelor parties, I was
gifted a bunch of different kinds of loops.
And there were some we really liked.
There were some that were mad. There were some that I was like,
absolutely not like. There was one where I was like,
how this burns like get rid of this.
Like kind of I was like. One of the heating ones like,
one of the warming ones or like?I think it was, it must have

(40:18):
been an ingredient that I was like sensitive to or something,
but I was like, I don't like this like we are throwing.
This out, I'm out Buzzer. I know I was like, I don't care
because I didn't pay for this. So like we're throwing this out
like I'm not that. And then like if also listeners,
like if something burns when we put it on and it is not supposed
to heat up or whatever, because there are some like warming

(40:40):
lubes, if it burns, do not do that.
That is your body telling you that it is not like that.
Listen to your body. Like it's usually right.
So yeah. So yeah, I think I'm not
surprised at all that like, statistically a lot of people
use lubes. I think it's lubes and lingerie
are like the most common Bachelorette party thing.
Yeah, right. Super super standard.

(41:01):
One thing too that that I've been saying a lot now is
vibrators. So 65% of individuals indicated
that that that they use them, 65%.
This is very, very surprising tome.
Yeah, right. Not because I like, I think
anything negative of vibrators. I mean, I don't personally own
one. Do what I consider maybe trying
one out Sure. Like, but I mean, we don't

(41:21):
personally own one right now. But like, I was, I was very
surprised by that because I feellike, I mean, maybe it's just
because I have like internal biases towards them.
Really interesting. I mean, I don't think I even
have biases. I'm like if you want to use
vibrator to use vibrator, I don't care.
Like have fun girl or, or dude, like who cares?
But like I would think, and it'smaybe because I think that like

(41:43):
Utah is sexually conservative. So and like vibrators are like
on the edge of sexually deviant.Like I don't think they are at
all. But like, yeah, but it does
remind me like the other day, like right after Valentine's
Day. I work down in American Fork.
And so I'm in American Fork a lot.
They have, they have a little sex shop on like Main Street.
They're very, very good. Love that place.

(42:04):
But I was in there because they had like a clearance event on
their lingerie and it's like, oh, I'll go check.
Of course, yeah. I was like, why not?
I'm curious and like highly recommend using lingerie.
It's fun to feel hot and sexy and fun to have.
My husband drooled. So I went in there and I
remember I was like minding my business, just browsing.
The workers that work there are amazing.
They're very knowledgeable, veryhelpful.

(42:25):
But I remember there was like anolder man that came in and I was
like, what the heck, What a creep.
And I was totally judging him. I was like, Oh my goodness.
It's like this like 50-60 year old guy, like coming into the
sex shop like, but then he was like, you know, I was looking
around, seeing, exploring the wares.
Yeah. And he was talking with one of
the like one of the workers there about a vibrator.

(42:46):
And he was like very genuinely looking for, he's like, this is
what my wife likes. This is what we have.
We had, we got this one, but it seems really intense for her.
And so we're looking for, like, happy medium and all those
things. And I was actually very, like,
it was almost kind of heartwarming to see him where it
was like, yeah, no, like this isactually a man who, like, has
really open, genuine communication with his wife,

(43:08):
Yeah. And is seeking to make sure that
their sexual experience togetheris enjoyable for both of them.
Like like on his own in a sex. Shop I was very humbled in that
moment where I was like, Oh my goodness, I totally judged him
for like being a creep coming into a sex shop and like this
sex shop is made for everyone like.
You know, and he's. Just over here making sure that
like his sex life is good. And I was like, good for you.

(43:30):
And the worker handled him amazing kind of amazingly where
she was like, okay, these are some options.
And they explored everything. And I was like, it's like, wow,
that was a really interesting, humbling moment for me where I
was like, good for you dude. I hope you're having great sex.
Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome.
One thing that I think kind of kind of explains this is that,
you know, so I think I think a lot of people have heard of the

(43:52):
orgasm gap, right? So I think it was, and we looked
at that, it was like 16% of women.
I think so. I want to say it's like 16 or
18%. It's sub 20.
Like it's very. It's very.
Surprising. So about less than 20% we're
looking. Up really quick.
Yeah. So what we're talking about is
how many women are are able to actually orgasm or reach climax
from penetration alone. The number is quite low.

(44:15):
Most women need you. Find it.
So this is the AI overview overview.
And they say according to a likea study published by the Journal
of Sexual Medicine, approximately 20% of women
experience orgasm solely from penetration.
OK, Yeah, and it says that. However, it's important to note
that the statistic can vary depending on factors such as

(44:36):
individual anatomy, sexual experience, and around little
partner stimulation and Physiology.
So. Sure, most women do organ.
Vary. Yeah, like another one of these
is saying approximately 18.4. Yeah, so around there around
like 1/5 ish. Yeah, yeah.
And so, so I do think it's, I, Imean, I mentioned this last time

(44:56):
we did the podcast, but I would be interested to see kind of a
breakdown of when the sex toy entered the relationship,
whether it was something that came into the relationship
already owned or it was something that was purchased.
Like a gift or? Like after marriage or yeah, if
it was a gift, it's like if one partner bought it, like if the

(45:16):
like if the husband bought it orif the wife bought it or what
partner produced it to the relationship or when.
I think it would be really interesting to see because like
I do wonder if some people wouldbe like if owning a sex toy
would be a deal breaker for them.
Yeah, yeah. Like I do wonder if someone like
obviously I, I don't care like as long as it's not super weird
like. It's, you know, how people are

(45:38):
generally pretty, pretty OK withit.
And, and I think especially because a lot of sex educators,
even within the church, especially like Tammy Haler or.
Love her. I was gonna say I follow one
she's called. I'm not sure if she's LDS.
I think she might be, but she doesn't label herself as such
like on social media. But she's the Christian sex

(45:58):
educator. And I think even I think she
also has a laundry brand, but I also think she's talked a little
bit about sex toys as well. Yeah, she has.
Yeah. So most women can't reach
orgasm, you know, without some kind of touch on their clitoris,
right? You know, And for those who
don't know, or I guess you know what, what is the clitoris, you
know? I know the memes where it's like
men searching for. Where is it?

(46:19):
Yeah, right. Yeah, but I also think that's
why my views kind of on masturbation are a lot less
definitive than they were when Iwas growing up.
Like, I think growing up I was like, you know, masturbating is
wrong because I've been told it's wrong.
But as I've grown up and like experienced marriage and
everything, I'm like, it actually is a really vital role
in understanding female anatomy,female the female sexual

(46:41):
experience. Like, I think it's actually
really important if you are considered like if you are like
about to get married, if you're considering getting married, I
think it actually is really important and actually
beneficial to your relationship and your sexual relationship
with your partner to kind of explore down there.
I don't think you're going to I think, I mean, we're also moving
away from the definitives of like, I mean, I do think some
some churches still are like you're going to go to hell if

(47:02):
you touch your body. Like, yeah, yeah.
And I feel like that that just simply isn't the case.
Like, I mean, obviously I can't speak in absolute, I don't know,
but like, I just feel that simply isn't the case.
Like if we say that sex is a beautiful thing that's ordained
of God, I would assume that he would want it to be pleasurable,
you know, And so kind of exploring your body, especially
because like it's, there's so much going on down there for

(47:23):
women, like exploring it and knowing like what feels good can
only benefit both of you. You know fun fact.
So the clitoris is its only function is to serve female
pleasure. It is the only exactly.
It has no other medical purpose.Right, and it has more nerve
endings than than the tip of of the male penis.

(47:44):
So women actually are capable ofof more.
God and it's four women. Yeah, right.
So I think, I think a lot of this ownership of vibrators is
because women, you know, find that that, that they are able
to, you know, experience a lot, a lot more pleasure.
And I mean, often times it's theonly way that they can orgasm,
you know? Yeah.

(48:04):
By using that right, and it feels better when she's enjoying
it, you know, like if we're experiencing pleasure or
orgasming, it feels better for you.
Like, like it only it only gets better, you know, if both people
are enjoying. It's true.
It's not our placement. One person's enjoying it, you
can only get so far, but if bothof you are enjoying it together,

(48:26):
you literally like the Sky's thelimit man Like.
My $0.02. To explore together.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.My $0.02.
For those who do not own one andand are married, I would suggest
just you know, dropping 40 buckson Amazon or something and just
like, yeah, Walmart right? You know, try it out, especially
if you are a woman who has been unable to orgasm or just has a

(48:49):
hard time. Or, or like just feeling kind of
sexually frustrated, not that like not that like your
relationship isn't fulfilling, but feeling like, like, because
I know, like some people are just like, Oh, I just, I just
don't like it's just something, you know, it's, I can't, it's
hard for me. Yeah.
I can't like, you know, or I don't need to, you know, like I
think for a long time I was like, oh, I don't need to, to

(49:10):
enjoy it. And that's true.
I do not need to, to be like fulfilled, but it makes it
better when I do. Like I would prefer if I did.
Like, I mean I couldn't. I mean, I could choose not to
have it. Like 16 bucks at Walmart or
something like that. They're over by the pregnancy
test. I spend a long time over at the
pregnancy test. I see them all the time.
But like, I think it's also it also going along with what you

(49:34):
were saying, Jacob, I think if you are like, we do recommend,
you know, trying it out, but also communicate with your
partner about that before doing it.
If that's something that would be like, don't just spring a sex
toy on. Like look what I found.
But like also having the conversation, I really, I really
am a really strong advocate for having effective communication

(49:54):
in like my hope is that everyonewho is in a marriage
relationship feels comfortable enough and open enough to have
those like conversations that might be uncomfortable with your
spouse or partner without feeling judged or without
feeling like you have to hide parts of yourself from them.
And I think that, like, sometimes maybe introducing a

(50:15):
sex toy or the idea of a sex toyinto a relation relationship can
be hard. But like, if you emphasize like,
because a lot of people will be like, oh, I'm not like, I feel
like a lot of men would be like,I'm not good enough.
Like, yeah. It's literally not about that at
all. It's that.
It'll benefit you dude. Like.
We could be so much Better Together.
Like, yeah. And it's not saying that you are
deficient in any way. I'm just saying this is

(50:37):
something you want to try. And it's not like I want to
replace you. Like, that's not tension at all.
I'm like, I'm a really big advocate for like, you know, try
things, see what you like. Like, I do remember in college,
but this was back when I was single, I had, there was like
one day. I mean, granted, I was, I was
like, I mean, goofing around with some guy that I hated, but.
Well, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

(50:58):
But maybe I was in like a long distance relationship or
something. But there is one day on Amazon I
had like ordered then cancelled,then ordered, then cancelled,
then ordered, then cancelled like a sex toy like 5 times.
Really. Wow.
But I was, I think it was because I was like, well, it's
because I'm in a long distance relationship and we're not
currently having sex. And so like, you know, then I
was like, I have a roommate in the same room as me.
That's dangerously, but then I think I was, I think it was also

(51:22):
like, you know, like for me personally, I was like, I feel
like maybe having a sex toy for marriage for me is like crossing
a boundary for me and so. Yeah.
I've thought about it. I've never I don't know if my
husband and I have ever talked about about that.
Maybe we have actually interesting conversation
yesterday because we my husband and I did a did a massive
debrief yesterday. We went on like a 2 hour walk or

(51:44):
something like that's awesome for nice.
That's. Super.
Cool. I also, I also just don't think
that my husband would think it'sa big deal.
You know, he probably joking. Be like, you just want to
replace me and maybe like, yeah,I don't care what you do.
Yeah. He'd be like, like, it'd
probably make it great for both of us, like.
Yeah, right. And so yeah, I was curious too
how many men had like sex toys too, because I feel like most

(52:07):
sex toys are made for women. Geared towards women, yes.
Yeah, right. And so like this.
So this is my understanding. Like like like the most common
toys used for men are like the rings.
The rings I was going to. Say yeah.
And then they have like things that and these and these I guess
are actually more like like masturbated type things, I
guess, or like those like those.What do you think?

(52:28):
What are those called? Like the?
Flashlight. I think they're called.
Yeah, I hate that word. Right.
It's so. Nasty.
Yeah, right. But yeah, I feel like those are
the only ones. But again, it's also I think,
because the male sexual experience is so linear.
Yeah, it's like. There's really.
What else is there to? Yeah, only a few.
Like, let's see, let's see, whatis it?
Only about 16% of men say that they use a penis ring and then

(52:52):
and then only about 4% say that that day in their marriage use a
masturbator or or thing. Interesting.
Yeah, that is interesting to me because I do feel like, I do
feel like generally like male sex toys are less common because
I feel like most most are gearedtowards women and there's a wide
spectrum of what that can look like.
Find it for men. It's like here you go put.

(53:15):
It on or put it in. Which one?
Yeah, right. And then a few accessory things.
We asked like about, you know, things like blindfolds or
restraints, right? You know, and about 18% say that
they use sorry, about 19% say that they use blindfolds and
about 16% say that they use restraints. 13.5% say that that

(53:36):
they use handcuffs. So, I mean, we got some members
who are, you know, like, like, yeah, yeah.
I was, I was gonna say, I would say on like the spectrum of like
what kinks can be that's still pretty vanilla like.
For sure, yeah. There's a, there's a ton of
different things. And I also think like.
In terms of dog cages, I'm just kidding.
Yeah, like collars and stuff like.

(53:57):
Yeah, right. I also think like we say that
not to make fun of people who are who are interested in
differently. Absolutely.
Like I think like I think like I'm like we've tried
blindfolding before or like kindof like sensory deprivation.
Yeah, interesting it for. Yeah, it doesn't force you, but
it allows. You to be mindful this kind of
thing. Sensations and stuff like that.
Yeah, it is very fun. Interesting.

(54:19):
And so I do say, I do think thatI am surprised that the numbers
aren't higher, but it might justbe because I think that like
like kinks in general or being alittle bit kinky is a little bit
like people are a little bit iffy about it.
Almost like, not bad, but it's edgier, you know what I mean?
That where it's like they're like, well, this is like sinful
sex or something like that. You're like, calm down.

(54:39):
Like I was going to say, like when it comes to obviously when
it comes to like restraints and like blindfolding and stuff like
that, obviously consent. Yeah.
Like, I don't, I, I think that if I woke up handcuffed like one
day, I would be very concerned. And use my.
Husband for that, I'd be like, are you kidding me?
Like, like that's not OK becausethat's like not clear consent.

(55:01):
But obviously, like, when it comes down to anything sexually,
like it's all about consent. And like, obviously like it is,
it's so important to have continual consent, continual
communication. Yeah.
Like. Are you OK?
How are you feeling? Yeah.
Are you OK? Do you like this?
Does this feel good? Like, are you comfortable with
this? And if they, if they say no,
like understanding and being willing to stop is such a big

(55:23):
thing. And I think that like being
willing to stop when someone says they're not comfortable is
such an indicator of like respect between people where
it's like, OK, like even if I may be enjoying this, if you're
not comfortable, then I'm not enjoying it anymore, you know?
Yeah. And so and like, I do think that
like often times people within like kink communities get a lot

(55:44):
of Flack from people because it is stigmatized or it's like seen
as like sexual deviance or something like that.
But like the people within thosecommunities are some of like the
most like like strict with. Consent.
Yeah, with consent where they'relike, no, like I need to make
sure like it is. Agreed.
Like we talk clearly about what will happen, what we are

(56:05):
comfortable with, what like how we indicate or what we say when
we're not comfortable, when we stop and stuff like that.
Because I do have, I do have friends who obviously, I mean,
there's, but are involved in like kinks and stuff like that.
And like they like, they tell meabout it and I'm like that.
I was like, it's very impressiveto see that like, like, well,

(56:26):
it's, it's sad, but also interesting to see that like
often they are labeled as like sexually deviant, but they
honestly are like the most respectful community when it
comes to sex, you know. Interesting.
Yeah. So they focus so marked on like,
hey, we're doing more intense things, so we're going to ensure
that we have consent and yell at.
Like it, they actually are like,incredibly respectful,

(56:48):
incredibly responsible people and like, you know, just because
it is what they're what they're into doesn't mean that they are
wrong or gross or bad people, you know, like, don't yuck other
people's yums. Some people like different
things and like, that's that's their prerogative.
Like also stay out of their bedroom if you have problems
with it, Like, doesn't affect you.
Yeah. So true, true.

(57:10):
Right. Well, I think, I think that we
are just about out of time, but I'm going to do sure that the
last statistic because I like I said that like 3 Times Now, but
this is for real the last statistic.
I know we could talk forever. I know, I know, and and I just
include this because I know a lot of people were were like
interested and asked the question to me on my story and
my DM saying you know, how much checks are, are married couples

(57:33):
actually having? You know what I mean?
Right, like. Talked about that last time and
I loved this. Right.
Like, is it the stereotypical like really get married?
And it's just like non-stop for like, you know, whatever, right?
And so like, I'll go through it,right?
So I asked, and again, this is asample of about 230 married
individuals who are active Latter Day Saints.
And the options for when I askedhow frequently they have sexual

(57:54):
intercourse were daily and then more than once a week, weekly,
more than once a month, monthly,more than once a year, and
yearly and then never, right? My heart goes out to the Never
people. No thanks.
Yeah, right. And then so only 4% of people
say that they have sex daily on average and but.

(58:15):
They have to be or trying to conceive.
Yeah, right. Yeah, for real.
That's I feel like that would belike.
It's exhausting, especially coming from people who are
actively trying to conceive and transparently we had a
miscarriage earlier this year, so we're trying to get going
again during the fertile window.It is work like to do it every
day. And then after that fertile

(58:35):
window, I'm like, I'll see you in three to five business days
are so tired. Good to see you slap you on the
butt. I'll see you in a couple days.
Like I'm so tired. So like people who are having
sex daily, like either you have like the highest libido ever or
you are newlyweds because holy crap that is a lot.
Right, right. The the highest category or

(58:56):
rather the category with the most people was the multiple
times a week group. So about 56% of young Latter Day
Saints are having it multiple times a week and then another
18% are having it about weekly. And then and then it's just, you
know, less and less from that, right?
So, yeah, it sounds like the thevast majority of Latter Day

(59:17):
Saints are are having it about more than once a week, right?
A. Couple times more than a couple
times a month. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
Like only like only about 8% of people are are having sex less
than multiple times a month. So.
Yeah, yeah. And I, I would be willing to bet
that like the people who are saying that I would, I'd be, I'd

(59:40):
be curious to see if it they have kids.
Yeah. Like if they have one or
multiple kids, because I feel like, I mean, obviously I'm not
a parent, but I do feel like thefrequency, I can imagine that
the frequency of of having sex would be significantly less when
you have kids. No, no, I agree.
And actually, actually I'm goingto run that right now.
Do you have it? I'm pretty sure I asked people

(01:00:01):
how many kids they have, so I'm going to.
You didn't. I hate you.
Oh, I didn't ask how many kids they have.
However we can. I'm curious if there's anything
here because this is live stats right now.
This is like a like a like a live look into what I do like
like every day. So, OK, I'm curious if there's
anything, what is something thatwe've, we have kind of talked
about that you think may be linked to higher rates of sexual

(01:00:23):
intercourse? I would definitely say trying to
conceive for like how recently they got married but I honestly.
Would say I might have that, yeah.
I would honestly say though, like like aside, like putting
the fact that we're trying to conceive aside, I feel like we
have more sex now, like 2 to almost three years in than we
did when we were newlyweds. But I think also it's because

(01:00:45):
both of us were in school and myhusband was actively on, on like
a collegiate sports team. And so like, so like, you know,
we were probably, we had a lot more going on.
Now it's like our what we're working on, like our work ends
at work for the most part. So I don't know, not saying we

(01:01:07):
have more energy or definitely we're definitely tired all the
time, but but like I feel like I, I don't know, maybe I'm
wrong, but I do feel like we have more sex now than we did
when we were first married, which is like maybe just.
Busy. Yeah, college.
We're busy, we're tired. You're coming home like school
doesn't stop at school. It comes home with you like
you're doing great. Have all these things all the

(01:01:27):
time. I don't know about you, but
after I got I graduated, I was like, whoa, I have so much time
now. This is crazy.
I can like do so much. Time and that could be filled
with sex. Yeah, like, wait a minute, No,
I. Feel like maybe maybe that's it,
Like we're just not in college anymore.
I also think like we're not in Provo anymore and so.

(01:01:48):
I really have an effect. She's.
We have central air conditioningso that helps.
Yeah, you want to like, you wantto explain like we don't have.
A crappy window unit that doesn't keep us like 85° all
year round? Like no.
So I mean I would, I would be interested ask my husband.
Like do you think the fact that we have central AC now effects
how much sex we have? That's so funny.

(01:02:11):
I'm going to. My husband runs really warm.
Does he do you run? Cold.
I'm anemic so I run pretty cold.RIP OK and so he'll be like I'm.
Dying if he and I'm like I'm perfectly fine right now.
Like he's like, I'm dying and I'm like, OK, turn on your
little fan over there because. Nice OK OK, I'm going to let's
see OK OK so I'm going to run ananalysis super quick and this

(01:02:32):
will be the last thing we do forreal it's time and then we'll.
For real is real. But I'm going to see if there's
a relationship between how many years people have been married
and how frequently they indicatethat they have sex.
Let's let's see there is relationship between how long

(01:02:53):
you've been married and how often you have sex and it and it
is a negative correlation. So it looks like.
Can you explain to the listenerswhat a negative correlation is
not? Not me, obviously.
I definitely know what that means.
No, for sure, for sure. So, so like, imagine a scatter
plot, right? You know, like as, as time goes
on, the more stuff happens per SE, right?
Or hey, as temperature increases, ice cream sales also

(01:03:15):
increase, right? And so both are increasing at
the same time. A negative correlation is when
one thing is increasing and another thing is decreasing.
Exactly. And so as time goes on and
increases the, the, the amount of sex goes down, which I think
makes sense 'cause you know, children and also just, you have
a phase and you're just like, you know.
Physical. Like physically you can handle

(01:03:37):
it a little less I'd say. Yeah, right.
Yeah, exactly. You have less energy, Yeah, not
that I think you have like it would be.
Do you have like a range of likethe ages of people who like
respond to surveys? Are they generally like 18 to?
Yeah. So 30 years is the highest end
of the age group that we use in our posts on Instagram and
things like that. OK, so it is 1830, right?

(01:03:58):
So. Yeah.
So you have that the oldest thatpeople respond are like 30.
Yeah, and same thing too. Those who are older are also
more likely to have sex less often.
Yeah. What do you mean?
And I think then I think it reverts because then you get old
and you're retired and you have nothing to do but have sex all
the time over the grandkids nursing homes.

(01:04:20):
How about grandkids? How about golf?
Well, yeah, but like, have you, you ever heard that thing where
there was like an STD outbreak in nursing homes?
Wait, really? I'm like, yeah, because.
Because they're old, they have nothing to do.
So they're just like hook up. There's like a in Florida,
there's like a whole like retirement community where they
use like different colored loofahs.
This is like swinging culture, but like different colored

(01:04:42):
loofahs to tell people what they're into on like their golf
carts. Interesting.
Rich, rich old people, man. Wild.
That's crazy. Well, on that note, Utah stats
family, I think we are going to wrap this one up.
Do you want to give your, your final thoughts, Karina briefly
and then we will. Yeah, maybe I'll be back in a

(01:05:02):
season or two to talk about something else.
That's right. That's right.
Definitely. My main takeaways, I would say I
have a couple, but my main takeaways are if you are
struggling with XYZ, with the law of chastity, with porn, with
whatever, you are not alone. And we, we sincerely hope that
you know that you are not alone and that you are not a bad
person for that. I think that it's really easy to

(01:05:25):
feel like you are the only one struggling with that.
And that is simply not the case.And I want you to know that
regardless of where you are in the religious spectrum, if
you're strong in your testimony,if you're struggling with your
testimony, just know that we weren't sent here to be perfect.
I don't expect perfection from people.
You shouldn't expect perfection from yourself.
And you shouldn't punish yourself because you're not.
And that's, that's one of my bigtakeaways for people who are in

(01:05:45):
relationships seeking to be in relationships, engaged, getting
ready to get married. In sexual relationships, consent
is key and agreement is key. And I think communication is
key. And I think really making sure
in your relationships that you either are in seeking to be in
or have been in the past, makingsure that you have really clear
and open communication is such akey to successful marriage and

(01:06:08):
successful relationships. If you can't be open and honest
with your partner and expect them to listen and know that
they will listen and respect that, then that is a red flag.
And you should make sure that either you address that in your
relationship or potentially seekout other relationships.
Because the key above all in a healthy relationship is it's not

(01:06:29):
like it's not love, it's not physical compatibility.
It is your ability to communicate with each other and
respect each other. And as you find people that you
can openly communicate with and openly and respect
unconditionally and see their perspective and accept them for
who they are, that is where deeptrue love comes from, is from

(01:06:50):
that connection. And I'll say that like over and
over again, the love that I havefor my husband does not come
from our physical aspects that we have with each other, does
not come from our sexual relationship.
It comes from our friendship andour ability to communicate and
my ability to be my entire self,all the good, all of the bad,
entirely with him. And that is where my love comes

(01:07:10):
from. That is where our bond comes
from. So I would say to anyone who's
seeking a relationship or in a relationship, make sure that you
have that because that is the key.
It's the blue. It's true.
Thank you. I'll I'll a lot of brief thought
because it reminded me of something just in the context of
understanding sexuality and especially for those who have

(01:07:31):
kind of grappled with its purpose and can perhaps a
negative correlations with it. I've had experiences with it.
You know what not there's a scripture in the Doctrine
Covenants I really like that talks about relational existence
and the importance of relationships in our lives.
And it says quote, it says quote.
And that same sociality which exists there shall exist here,

(01:07:53):
you know, just saying that thesesame relationships and these
social connections that that, you know, we have are divinely
sanctioned and we are meant to be, you know, relational
creatures, right? And so I think that as at least
I have, you know, tried to understand and learn about the
divide and ordination of sexuality, it has helped me to
remember its purpose in a relational context, right?

(01:08:14):
And how it can bring joy for twopeople who are using it wisely
and mindfully. And God loves us and it's his
gift to us so. Yeah, and it's unconditional.
You cannot do anything that would disqualify you from the
brevity, depth and like Infinityof God's love for you.

(01:08:35):
And I think it's really easy when you are struggling with
addiction to feel like I am. I'm too far gone.
I am disqualified from this love, from this atonement, from
the the comfort. And that's just simply not the
case. And I know that sometimes it can
feel really hard to feel that. But if I can tell you anything,
like you are not too far gone, you are have not messed up so

(01:08:57):
badly that that God does not want you and his presence.
I'm reminded of just the absolute powerhouse of a talk
from Tamerunia at this most recent conference where she
said, you know, we may do thingsthat take us, separate us from
God a little bit. Your worth never changes.

(01:09:17):
It does not move like how God sees you and your value never
changes, regardless of what you're doing.
Like I was down here for a lot of years of my life, but my
worth, even though I felt like it was down here, never changed
to God. And when I realized that that
was that was like a pivotal point in my my testimony in my

(01:09:39):
view of myself was realizing that, you know, if my worth to
God never changed, then I can then I can see my value a little
bit more like he does. Awesome.
Thank you so, so much, Karina, for joining us and we hope that
you all enjoyed. Please send us your feedback.
If you learned something new or something was helpful or
something was new, please let usknow.

(01:10:01):
We would love to know if the content that we're producing is
useful and helpful so that we can keep doing more of it.
And if it's not, we would also love to know so that we can Oh
I. Was like and if you hated me,
don't tell me no. I will tell Karina every bad
thing. He's not forgetting that.
Really. No, but.
Please send me it. Please do.
Yeah, no, but yeah, please do. Please DM us.
Please let us know what you think.
This is meant to be useful and to place the statistics that we

(01:10:24):
post on Instagram in contacts and pair them with real people
and real experiences. So thank you again and stay
tuned for our next episode.