Dr. Jonathan Schoeff | Unlocking Longevity Through Diet, Exercise and Optimization | September 3, 2025 Ep. 22

Summary:

In this episode of the Low Carb Consultant Podcast, Dr. Jonathan Schoeff, a board-certified general surgeon and longevity medicine expert, discusses his journey into precision longevity medicine. He emphasizes the importance of quality of life over mere lifespan and shares insights on personal health transformations, the role of protein in diet, cyclical eating strategies, and practical recommendations for health optimization. Dr. Schoeff also highlights the significance of muscle health and movement in achieving longevity and overall well-being.

Find Dr. Schoeff:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonschoeff/

Website: https://longevitylabwellness.com/

Takeaways:

Precision longevity medicine focuses on data-driven health optimization.

Quality of life should improve in the later decades of life.

Personal experiences can drive professional transformations in health.

Radical changes in diet are not always necessary for improvement.

Muscle health is crucial for metabolic function and longevity.

Protein intake is essential for muscle growth and maintenance.

Cyclical eating can help optimize health and performance.

Movement is vital for metabolic health and longevity.

Supplements can aid in achieving metabolic optimization.

Simplicity in dietary choices can lead to better adherence and results.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction to Precision Longevity Medicine

06:06 Personal Journey and Motivation for Longevity Medicine

15:13 Implementing Change: Steps to Health Optimization

29:59 The Role of Protein in Health and Longevity

39:16 Balancing Nutrition and Longevity

42:31 The Importance of Periodization in Diet

45:42 Understanding the Body's Adaptation to Diets

49:39 Daily Routines for Optimal Health

58:05 Top Strategies for Nutritional Optimization

01:03:55 Essential Foods for Muscle Building

01:08:07 Key Exercises for Lifelong Fitness

Keywords:

longevity medicine, health optimization, protein intake, cyclical eating, muscle building, metabolic health, personal transformation, health supplements, exercise recommendations, wellness strategies

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
All right guys, welcome back to the low carb Consultant podcast.
So I'm thrilled to bring on Dr. Jonathan Chef, a board certified
general surgeon, longevity medicine expert and Co founder
of the Longevity Lab in Greenwood Village, Co.
With over 2 decades of experience in minimally invasive

(00:33):
spine surgery and a personal Dr.Fueled by self self
experimentation and scientific rigor, Doctor John has become a
pioneer in precision longevity medicine, which is a
data-driven, personalized approach to health optimization.
His clinic blends hormone therapy, metabolic health,

(00:53):
Wellness injections, and aesthetic science into a
concierge model that helps high performers live longer, stronger
and more vibrant lives. So Doctor, chef man, it's, it's
a pleasure to meet you here. Great to have you on.
Looking forward to getting into everything with you.
Likewise likewise it's a pleasure.
Yeah, absolutely. And maybe for the listeners who

(01:16):
are not familiar with your work or who you are quite yet, would
you mind just giving the listeners just a, a real brief
background on yourself and what drove you towards this specific
practice that you've got right now?
Yeah, I think the the abbreviated version.
I am a surgeon by trade and by training.

(01:37):
They've had a long standing passion, if not obsession for
for health and performance. I think that the combination of
really that passion and and somelife circumstance really drove
myself and my wife. We Co founded this practice to

(02:00):
to really dive much, much, much deeper into the longevity
aspects of healthcare. You're going to hear a term
everything from medicine 3 pointO to I don't like terms like
anti aging. I feel like that that allows too
much latitude and assumption that well, things are are
normally going to go bad. So we'll just try to slow that

(02:22):
process. My strong belief in in what
we've come to realize to our ownliteral self experimentation is
that longevity really is not just duration, it's quality of
life. But I'm a firm believer that the
last 30 years, 3-4 decades of life should be better than the
first three, at least in part because we do a lot of dumb

(02:43):
stuff in the first three. You have to learn to read and
write, so on and so forth. But you know, kind of all
cliches aside, for me, precisionlongevity medicine is about
taking everything we know today in terms of longevity based
science and then incorporating and really trending with a

(03:06):
data-driven approach to drive results.
And I think, you know, there is this, I've observed at least,
I'll say, in the social media space, really in the world we
Live Today, we now have two major camps.
We have the people that read andregurgitate, which is cool.
I mean, I can quote to every scientific paper under the sun.

(03:30):
But the there is a increasingly wider, wider gap between the
people that read and regurgitateand then the people that are in
the trenches. If there's any confusion about
what I do day-to-day, I take care of human lives one-on-one,
face to face, and I hold myself accountable and my clients hold
me accountable for the results that that we deliver.

(03:53):
So what I've come to realize is just there, there is a big
piece, big chunk that's missing that I yeah, I mean, for better
or for worse, I think is being driven by social media, digital
media, so on and so forth. Where, and this is a very direct
critique to the guys out there that sit behind a microphone and
spout off about things but clearly don't do it themselves,

(04:16):
or if they do, it's not working.So that's even worse.
And then two, you're not in the trenches.
You're not looking someone in the eye and having to walk
through why something did or didn't work.
I'm all for the online coaching and all, all this stuff.
There's a lot of positive that has has is emerging, but I also

(04:36):
think there are some major, major, major gaps and and there
is no level of accountability higher than having to sit
opposite somebody and make decisions, support somebody in
there, whether it's lifestyle choices, something like hormone
optimization, what have you and actually deal with that head on.

(04:59):
Interesting. And I definitely want to get
into because this, I know we were chatting a little bit
offline about this the other day, but I've got a big rule,
right? I think I told you my rule.
Don't take nutritional or exercise or health or Wellness
advice from someone you wouldn'twant to look like right.
And it's and I think it's a common sense rule and that

(05:20):
applies to just about everything.
Don't take financial advice fromthe guy that's broke.
Don't go to the dentist with theshitty teeth.
Don't don't take health advice or nutrition advice from the fat
doctor. Don't sign up and work with the
personal trainer that's out of shape.
And, and I and I think there's definitely something to that and

(05:41):
we can dive a little bit into that.
But going back to what you were you were saying earlier, I
wanted to go back and touch on this in terms of like your
clinic, your approach to health,Wellness optimization.
Was there at all a specific time, maybe it was during
medical school or after that where you say, hey, this is
actually the direction that I want to go with my career.

(06:03):
Was there maybe something that happened with you in terms of
your own health, your performance, where you said, you
know what? I think this is it for me, this
direction is it for me, any of that go on.
Yes. OK.
I said that kind of a little bitcrass.
I mean, they're great questions.And I I've heard this a number

(06:24):
of times here, you know, high level 35,000 foot view in
medical school. What I've what I've come to
realize in medical school for me, I'll date myself.
It was 25 years ago. OK, So in medical school, above
all else, you learn a lot of stuff, OK.

(06:45):
But what I think has enabled my own practice evolution and, and,
and just as I've matured as a physician, the key thing about
medical school that doesn't necessarily exist outside of
medical school is you spend a lot of time learning how to
learn. You learn how to ask questions
and you learn how to find answers.

(07:07):
And that is, I think the key differentiator that I've come to
realize. That's what allows someone like
myself to, for all intents and purposes, reinvent their career
several times over. My surgical practice, if I got
into the weeds of that, is a very niche, nuanced practice

(07:28):
that when I founded it 10 years ago that it wasn't even
recognized as a surgical practice model, if you will,
right, But you learn how to learn longevity medicine, as I
alluded to, is, is a passion of mine and my wife's.
We, we want to live healthy. We want to outperform ourselves.

(07:49):
And by the way, that's the metric.
That's the metric we should all be chasing, not some guy on the
Internet that takes his shirt off and then then we blast him
because he's on gear or, or, Oh well, that's Photoshop.
Or maybe it's actually real and you just don't like the idea
that someone is outperforming you.
But forget all that, the principal issue that we should

(08:11):
seek every day is outperforming ourselves.
You should be able to outdo yourself day over day.
And if you're not doing that, I,I, I at least the way my
practice runs is probably not going to be a good fit.
I don't know that I can really lean into that and really
provide support and care to those clients.
But for myself specifically, thethe origins of this practice,

(08:32):
what prompted me to say, Hey, we're going to we're going to
full on open a whole nother brick and mortar was was life
experience was personal experience.
My my first daughter passed awayat birth, and this was six years
ago now. And in fact, we celebrated her
would been her 6th birthday yesterday.

(08:54):
So it's it's kind of surreal. And at that point in time in my
life, I thought I had things reasonably together, figured out
kind of stuff. And I went off the deep end on a
level that that I didn't really know how to come back from.
And so everybody's life story isdifferent.

(09:16):
But for me it was humbling, it was jarring and the greatest
frustration I had through that experience.
So I gained a lot of weight, wasbasically pre diabetic to nearly
diabetic. We can get into metabolic health
if if we have time here today, which is a passion of mine.
Had a hemoglobin A1C for perspective of 6.4 6.5 is

(09:40):
diabetic right and found out a lot about myself.
My my vice is sour patch kids. I like to consume and I can
consume massive wise of sugar. You'll see me get into riffs
with people in social media. Sugar is not an addictive
substance. Talk to the millions and

(10:01):
millions and millions. That's 73% of Americans who are
overweight or obese. And probably some portion of
them will tell you, yeah, if sugar hits my tongue, I'm done.
I, if I have one Sour Patch Kid Max, I have a whole bag.
There's no and that is an addictive behavior.
That's funny. You and I share.
You and I share a very similar interest in candy.

(10:22):
It's my son's favorite candy. It's my, it's my favorite candy.
I'm I'm, I'm weak. I'm weak with those as well.
Well, you're not weak, OK? Yeah.
This thing, you have this thing called dopamine in your brain.
Sure. OK, and sugar has a very
powerful dopaminergic effect. Guess what else does alcohol
guess what else does pornographyguess?

(10:44):
I mean, we can go down the list.OK, so we split hairs.
I got this blown up recently about like, oh, what's not in
the, you know, psychiatry diagnosis manual there?
You know, food addiction is not is not a true addiction because
it's not in a psychiatry manual.And I said, well, so when the
next manual rolls out and peopleput two and two together and

(11:07):
they now call it a food addiction, are you going to tell
me that food addiction didn't exist previously, not till the
book came out? I mean that this is the problem.
You get where I'm going with this.
This is the challenge we're facing with this modern area of
people have a lot of informationat the fingertips and there are
a lot of people. And this is not a knock.

(11:28):
I'm not saying someone's uneducated by any stretch, but
the rules have been kind of adapted and modified to fit the
very extreme environment which is called social media, right?
It's black white, right? Wrong.
The truth is in here, highly nuanced.
And by the way, five years from now, we may be talking about
something else. Now I'm going to tell you today

(11:49):
we're still talking about the inflammation fatty acid theory
behind insulin and resistance, for example.
So I, I mean, I, I say my, my, one of my major soapboxes is
that, you know, reverse insulin resistance, you're going to live
longer. But there, there is a prevailing
theory that is antiquated based on, you know, whole body

(12:11):
inflammation over caloried over fat diet that drives insulin
resistance. Now, not only does that make not
make any legitimate sense because the only human stimulus
for insulin secretion is glucose, but notwithstanding
that fact, we now have trillions, almost, almost

(12:33):
trillions of data points in terms of glucose levels, Glucose
variability. In what we will see, and I will
stake my career on it in the next five years, is that the
pendulum is going to swing back and say we need to start looking
at glucose variability as an independent predictor and an
independent risk factor for progression to metabolic

(12:53):
dysfunction. Have I totally lost you here?
No, not at all. So the moral of the story is
this. So with all that said, you know,
it really came down to for me, Ifell off the wagon big time in
my own life. And when I said, hey, like I got
to get, I got to write the ship for myself, for my son, for my,

(13:17):
my family. And you start searching, right?
I, I struggled to this day, I was never able to compile my own
team to help get back on track. And that's a disturbing thought
as a, as a physician, like I should have the inside track.
I should have the resources, right?
That's my, my job. And So what, what hit me and,

(13:39):
and what really hit my life too is that it's not as easy as it
sounds. Say you are highly motivated,
you're a seeker. You want to find what's like,
well, you're getting ping pongedaround between people selling
supplements, between unfortunately, doctors that may
still be practicing 1980s medicine.

(14:01):
And so the longevity lab for us was really a passion project
that was about sharing our experience, not only our life
experience, but but our health experience and and really
compiling best in class science backed evidence based strategies
to achieve real meaningful results.

(14:22):
Yeah, that's and that's, that's absolutely fantastic and, and,
and amazing. And so take me back.
So after the tragic situation with your daughter, obviously
with anybody, right, that would be an emotional roller coaster.
Sounds like you went down the path of becoming overweight.
And I think this is where a lot of people can benefit from what

(14:45):
you started to do, right? Because like I think you said
earlier, everyone's got their own journey.
Everyone's got their own story. Everyone's got their own past
experiences, traumas, what whatever the case.
So when you were in that dark place and you were maybe putting
on weight and you decided it like, hey, I've got to make a
change. I can't do this anymore.

(15:06):
What things then did you start to implement with your own self
where you started to see was it,was it just changing the diet?
Was it getting in the gyms? Like what were some of the
things and the steps you startedto take in regards to changing
things around for you specifically?
Well, I mean, we talked a lot about science.
I I think I'd be remiss to say Ithink the the number one, the

(15:26):
the divining principle literallywas faith and and looking for
deeper meaning, but also recognizing that I was lack of
sounding cheesy, but I I was lost like I derailed and we
realize so heavily. I have always relied so heavily

(15:49):
on my ability to recover and allmy my ability to self sustain
and also so so I think that the the humbling part of the
experience and but, but it's it.I would say this as an aside,
Max's. I feel like it's also given me a
greater sense of empathy for others.
I I true, I mean, 10 years ago Iwas the guy that said I'm, I'm

(16:11):
just going to come out and say it.
If if you're overweight, you're lazy, right?
Oh, what, what's, what's your deal?
You, you can't just push away from the dinner table.
I mean, do you really need to keep eating, eating, eating?
Well, I now have a different perspective.
You know, like, like you said, Imean, life takes a course.
We can get into the science, butso faith was huge.

(16:32):
I think from, from from a scientific perspective.
I think the reality that trips so many people up and people use
it in different formats, but theidea that radical change is the
only option. I need to overall, I need to
180. I need to do these extreme

(16:53):
right. And we we see it in so many
different formats. When you've got the, again,
you've got the extreme personal trainers, you got the guys,
they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just eat everything.
It'll probably come out in the wash.
Let's focus on gaining muscle, right.
Well, that that's probably not going to get you there.
But then you got the other guys that are like 0 carb did it
right. And it's very clear the critique
is, well, when you push someone to these extremes, they're going

(17:15):
to fail, right? So the reality to me has become,
and this is what I really focus on what clients is I'm only
going to ask you to do 3 to 5 things.
And I'm going to select those three to five things from a
long, long, long, long list of science backed, evidence based
protocols that are most likely to deliver the greatest

(17:36):
differential of results. What would those three to five
things be? Would it be different different
from person to person? It's going to be unique, right?
Yeah. So it's absolutely going to be
unique to the individual. But I will say this, the
simplest thing that you and I can do and everybody on planet
Earth could do to markedly altertheir metabolic profile, which

(18:02):
if we can agree metabolic dysfunction is driving disease
in America, is gain muscle. So those three to five things
typically, if you really dissected them out, are going to
be pertinent to that individual's deficits in their
ability to gain muscle. Makes sense.
That's if you're in the gym everyday.

(18:23):
That's awesome. I don't have to address it.
OK, so that gives me a little wiggle room.
Let's talk about what your hormone profile looks like.
Where's the opportunity to optimize, so on and so forth.
Right. So it's 100% unique to the
individual that the central tenants of optimize muscle
health, optimize cardio, pulmonary, heart and lungs

(18:46):
health. We hear all about VO2 Max,
right? And then optimize metabolic
function, improve insulin sensitivity.
Those three things are the only three things that I'm aware of
to provide exponential greater than 100% differential reduction
in death reduction all 'cause mortality, right?

(19:08):
You guys talk about that terminology, right?
Like death from anything. If I tell you something can
reduce the likelihood you die period, I'd go after that first.
So when so when people get into the the case of you Erapamycin
and extending extending lifespanin a fruit fly that's a little

(19:29):
too far removed from that three to five rule, you get what I'm
saying? 100% and then would so in terms
of like the diet, right, I'm sure the diet would be a large
part in regards to consulting with that individual or
encompassing one of those three to five key elements.
OK. And then how do you approach
that with someone like it? And so you were kind of using me

(19:52):
as an example, I felt like like Max, you already go to the gym.
We've got that basis covered. We don't necessarily need to
nail that down. What are you eating?
What? Tell me what your day-to-day
looks like. And then do you just work with
the person from there, kind of get like the foundation dialed
in and then optimize from there?Is that how you approach things?
Well, so couple, it's a great question and yes, you know, this

(20:16):
whole 85% of metabolic health isdiet related that that's largely
true. Now, again, real quick, muscle's
the great equalizer. So why do I emphasize muscle
health above all else? Well, it gives you a metabolic
buffer. Does that make sense?
Right. So when when you have those sour

(20:38):
Patch kids, it's really simple. This is not rocket science.
More muscle. It's a giant glucose sink and
glucose regulator. OK, so everybody's like low carb
carbs are fuel and if you want we can go high level.
So I obsess over nutrition. I'll tell you this too.
Sure. I think we're four registered

(20:58):
dietitians as employees. None of them work for me.
I run my own in house nutritional program.
I get torched on social media. Well, what makes me an expert?
You know what my answer is, Max?What makes me a nutritional
expert? My results.
Oh, 100%. I couldn't care left Look, I
didn't do this on purpose, but I'm in my office, right?

(21:20):
Look at all those cool plaques and pieces of paper, OK?
To me, all that represents is a lot of time.
And like I said earlier, learning how to learn.
So I would consider myself a high level expert in humans.
OK, Medicine is is a scientific is a rigorous scientific

(21:44):
educational model to learn how to learn period.
So let's go nutrition, OK, because I'm not a qualified
expert because I my thing doesn't say registered
dietitian. Let me give you how this
applies. Let me think how to to
summarize, we live by 5 rules, OK?
Like I said, single digits man, keep things to single digits in.

(22:08):
There's a decent chance people are going to follow it, right?
When you start getting into treatment plans are like 35 data
points or you know, like 35 bullet points, people guess
where they derail around #6 So yeah, my rules to nutrition are
first and foremost, protein is the non negotiable.

(22:29):
Everything has to be driven by protein, right?
Because protein is the one true necessary macronutrient fat and
carbohydrates fat is probably inthe between carbohydrates.
It's fuel. It's a fuel source, OK, And OPS
Americans are the most absurdly over fueled society that the the

(22:52):
the world and the history of theworld's ever seen.
OK, do you typically, you typically fill up your car with
gas and just keep the thing going.
So the gas is pouring out the sides and over the top.
And then you fill up some extra,you know, gas cans, throw them
in your trunk, right? That's how we live our life,
period. Right?
Agree. Right.

(23:13):
Let me rephrase that. Max 73% of Americans live their
life that way. OK, Is that fair?
Because 73% of Americans are overweight or obese.
That's the deal. So it's a phenomenon called over
fueling period. So proteins are non negotiable.
OK. We approach nutrition with with
the simple truths that fats are your friends.

(23:36):
So what I would term keto friendly.
OK no I'm not suggesting full blown ketogenesis or ketosis.
Keto friendly fats are a good fuel source.
Simple. OK be carb conscious or carb
aware. The hidden sugars are what kill
people. The hidden sugars, by the way, I

(23:56):
got in some controversial thing.The hidden sugars that aren't
hidden at all in your, say, a Naked Juice, 80 grams of sugar
is 80 grams of sugar. Folks hate to be the bearer of
bad news. We can split hairs, but once
you've digested fruit down to appearing in a bottle, it's 80
grams of sugar. That's how your body views it.

(24:19):
So be carb conscious, carb aware.
And then the last piece of the puzzle is have a caloric
ceiling. Do I care about calorie
counting, carb counting? No, but I do care.
If you eat 3000 calories more than your threshold, you will
gain weight. Now this is where it's even more

(24:39):
nuanced. Max, right?
Because what I'm also fed up with is talking about weight
gain and weight loss. That's an antiquated concept.
We need to only only refer to body recompositioning.
You can have body positive and negative body recomposition
agreed A. 100%. Weight loss.
I couldn't care less what the scale says.

(25:01):
It is truly meaningless. It's antiquated.
Does that make sense? 100% and and I would agree with
you here real quick, just so thelisteners understand in terms of
the body composition like what we're what we're ultimately
talking about here is and we cantalk on the calories thing for a
little bit. I'm not a big believer in
regards to like meticulously tracking calories.

(25:22):
Why I think it's an important, it's important to absolutely
understand the energy that is inthe food, like the carbs, the
fats, the proteins, the calories.
But the reality of the situationhere is you burn calories
different than than me, someone that's someone that's £200
overweight, it's going to be burning calories completely
different than someone that's active.

(25:43):
So we burn the fuel and the energy different based off our
lifestyle or habits, what we're into.
That's just, that's just my two cents in, in, in regards to the
body composition part, though, Ithink what you're saying here is
we want to, we want to eat high protein, we want to be lifting
weights, we want to put on muscle mass.
The more, the more muscle mass we have, the, the higher our

(26:04):
lean mass, the lower our fat mass is going to be, right.
And essentially what that means is not necessarily changing the
weight on the scale just becausewe want to see a smaller number.
It's ultimately increasing the our muscle mass percentage and
which will essentially decrease the body fat percentage.
And that's what changing the body composition it means is, is

(26:25):
what I'm saying. That's what you're referring to.
Yep, Yeah, I'll take it. Let's do it like 1/2 step for
spot on. I think this is a little bit of
an asset because you just kind of said it and alluded to it.
Your body fat percentage is justa calculation.
It's just mathematical equation.Fat mass is an absolute
parameter. OK, so how how much fat, how

(26:49):
many pounds of fat do you have on your body?
That's the absolute. So you're right.
Add muscle to your frame, your body fat percentage goes down.
Assuming all other things are equal.
That's just simple math. Like take it a step further.
What has clear longevity implications and much higher
resolution morbidity mortality data is again around body

(27:11):
composition, but it's really 3 parameters skeletal muscle mass
as is interpreted as SMI, skeletal muscle mass indices,
visceral fat load and body fat mass.
I, I educate my clients literally in our first visit.
These are the only three numberswould you're ever going to hear
me talk about again. I don't even look at scale
weight does not matter it think about it.

(27:33):
It has no significance in in context.
Now someone's going to blow, blow up and be like, but BMI
this and that. Yes, it's a very low resolution.
Very. How do you say it's?
It's basically using a sledgehammer to put a nail into

(27:54):
a piece of wood. OK.
If you have a if you have a highenough lean mass, you'll be be
you'll have you'll have an ABMI that's equivalent to a person
that's obese on on your doctor'sBMI chart in the office.
If if you're working out like bodybuilders for instance are
considered obese on ABMI chart. Right, right.
Well, I, I'm considered obese, right?
If I had high blood pressure, myBMI is 29.

(28:17):
So what's the significance of that?
Now the argument is like, wow, you're, you're not average.
OK, we don't need to get in the weeds, but let's focus on what
matters. Body recompositioning is what
what everybody. And truly, when people come see
me and they talk about weight loss, I'm like, wait, wait, hold
on a second. So you, you just want to lose
pounds on a scale. And but here, oh, Max, let me
just say this. And again, keep me on track here

(28:39):
because I derail easily. But sure, what I came to
realize, why don't I use the term weight loss?
Because there is a subtle, but whether it's subconscious or
conscious switch that occurs in people and Americans are the
worst at this. OK, even the most sophisticated
individual still tells me about well, but I'm only 3 lbs down on

(29:01):
the on the scale, right? What do I have them do when they
freak out about that? Come into the office, get on a
body composition machine called the in body.
More times than not, because of the way we protocol out our
treatment plans, they're down 3 lbs on the scale.
They're up 4 lbs in skeletal muscle mass.

(29:23):
Enough said. Yeah, we don't.
We don't need to talk anymore. And then they leave the office
and they're happy and but, but it is simple but sinister that
we still, doctors are still talking about weight loss.
Let's talk about getting £10 off.
What does that mean? That's totally mean.
Let's talk about getting 8 lbs of fat mass off and add 4 lbs of

(29:46):
skeletal muscle mass, using thatfat mass as a fuel source.
That's that's the philosophy. 100% I, I love it and I want to
go into the protein and your thoughts on protein.
So I've had the, the pleasure and the honor to interview a lot
of different doctors in regards to their thoughts on protein.
I've got my thoughts on protein based off my athletic goals and

(30:10):
my body composition goals. What are your thoughts on
protein? Are you typically like, OK,
let's let's shoot for a gram of protein per pound of lean mass.
Is it a pound of? Is it a gram of protein per per
pound of ideal body weight? Like what are your thoughts on
that? So again, let's keep it simple.
Sure. Here's the thing.

(30:30):
Above all else, and this is if Ileave you with nothing, Max, the
answer lies in the priorities ofthe individual at a given time.
OK, why do I say it that way? Periodization.
You owned a gym, right? You understand the the concept

(30:51):
at least of periodization, OK, always growing, always leaning
or cutting, Always, always, always get rid of the word
always. So my philosophy on protein
consumption is, is really centers on two things.
One, it is a non negotiable macronutrient.
OK, believe it or not, this is going to sound crazy.
The world's going to crap the pants here.

(31:13):
You don't need carbohydrates to survive.
You actually don't. Your body has a miracle system
called gluconeogenesis. Your body can take protein and
actually turn it into carbohydrates.
And guess what the driver is? Peter Tia I saw podcast not too
long ago. Peter Tia No, I don't.

(31:33):
I think a lot of what he says ispretty accurate and and
reasonable. But there was a comment about
what drives gluconeogenesis, theprincipal drivers of converting
amino acids to glucose. And there's really only one
proven, scientifically proven driver for gluconeogenesis and
that's glycogen stores. So the quantity of protein that

(31:55):
you consume does not drive gluconeogenesis.
In fact, there was a recent study about a year ago,
radiolabeled amino acids, I don't know if you've kept up
with this. They gave trained athletes post
really important post resistancetraining.
So that's a key piece. They go lift, they eat 100 grams

(32:16):
of protein. Guess where that 100 grams of
radiolabeled amino acids landed 100% in their muscle.
So the idea that, oh, you know, 30, if you eat more than 30
grams of protein, you start peeing it out.
Peter Tia said if you don't eat enough, protein gets converted
to carbohydrates. That's bizarre.
There's no basis for that. So it's almost, there isn't.

(32:39):
I mean, 100 grams of protein is a lot of protein to consume in a
single setting. And what's clear is if you do it
following a weight training session, your body's going to
use it and it's going to use it to apply it to muscle growth
period. It's great, right?
But the bottom line is Max. So how much protein should you
be eating? Well, what are your primary

(33:00):
interests or motivations today? I recommend to clients, it's
easiest for me to think of life in, in annual cycles, right?
Every year. I recommend depending on the,
the person and the, and the priorities and where they're
starting out from a skeletal muscle mass indices, Are they
sarcopenic? Well that's a different
conversation. Anywhere from 4 to 6 month

(33:21):
intervals should be dedicated togrowth of lean muscle.
If your priority is anabolism growing lean muscle, you should
consume 1.2 to 1.5g per pound ofgoal body weight is how.
Interesting. In other words, you want me to

(33:42):
paraphrase it? Go wild.
Go nuts. Go wild on the protein.
The wild on the protein, protein, this is the other
things we get into this. We get into this because there's
so much misinformation online, right?
Excess calorie consumption leadsto body weight gain.

(34:02):
True or false? 100% true.
It's an energy equation, right? Yes, but we already said I don't
give a crap about body weight. This is what gets lost.
This is why I criticize people like what's your actual agenda
in pointing that out? Because what you should follow
on by saying is there's actuallyhead to head comparative trials

(34:23):
looking at excess carbohydrates versus excess protein in the
impact on positive body recomposition it.
Yeah, well, and, and if you're eating excess protein, you, you,
you ain't going to be eating excess calories.
Well, I mean that take take thataside, I agree with you guys.
This is what's concerned. Like it is physically difficult

(34:46):
to eat Whole Foods on the the inexcess calorie capacity, right?
Especially protein. Why?
Because it slows gut digestion. It's satiating, it makes you
feel full, literally. It affects, it alters our
hormonal balance within the bodyas it relates to hunger, yadda
yadda. Or going to pretend that doesn't
exist. We're going to keep it simple.

(35:07):
The fact of the matter is this, if you over consume calories in
the form of protein, what happens to your body?
You gain lean body mass. Yeah.
On an almost 3 to 1 ratio, OK, and.
Another another way to look at it real quick is if you if you
increase calories from protein, I would say again, on the flip

(35:27):
side, you would naturally eat less calories from carbohydrates
and fat. Right.
Once again Matt, this is where I've been told I overcomplicate
things. To me it's pretty simple.
Protein's the non negotiable. Eat protein first, literally and
metaphorically. Every diet, OK?

(35:48):
Every program I construct is driven first and foremost by
protein. If you're in an anabolic phase,
no, that doesn't mean steroids. That means you're growing
muscle, OK, 1.2 to 1.5 grams of protein per pound of anticipated
weight, OK, so why periodize? Why not just do that year round?

(36:11):
Well, you can. But to be a purist from my
standpoint as a longevity provider, we also have to
understand that there are some concerns around constant chronic
protein consumption and what that primary concern is leucine
and activation of the M Tor pathway.

(36:33):
You're, I'm sure you've tackled M Tor, right?
I don't know if you want to get into the weeds of M Tor and what
it is, but at the simplest level, M Tor is the anabolic
gateway. OK, So for M Tor to be
activated, we need a stimulus, things like insulin, things like
leucine as a free amino acid turn on M Tor.

(36:56):
When M Tor is on, you're building muscle.
Now we know based on population studies, more muscle, better
survivability. That's that's the gross
understanding. So when people get into biologic
pathways and then when you look again in like fruit flies,
yeast, right, mtor does affect their lifespan.

(37:20):
Now I don't know about you. I don't feel much like a fruit
fly today. But if I did, I do want to
acknowledge the mtor pathway andthe potential impact on
longevity. So the simple truth is this, you
want to know how to turn off mtor, cut your protein to
maintenance level fast. I'm a huge advocate for

(37:44):
prolonged water fasting. We can talk about how we
incorporate that into nutritional.
Yeah. OK, so the moral story,
everybody wants me to get the answer that's 1.2g per pound of
body weight, go to town. But that that I don't think
that's the right answer. I think when you're trying to
build muscle, you, you, you definitely the data is clear.

(38:05):
You need to be consuming that level of protein.
So, so let's let's kind of put alittle bow on that because
what's interesting is so I was talking to Zane Griggs
yesterday. Dude's been on the cover of
Men's Fitness, like very in shape guy.
And we were talking about how your body adapts and you were

(38:27):
kind of alluding and you were just talking about eating
periodization, but almost eatingcyclically, like going through
these periods of. And that makes sense.
We are human beings that have evolved on planet Earth, that
the planet has seasons, right? Spring and spring and summer,
you've got fruit that goes away,then you're eating more animals.

(38:48):
And that makes a lot of sense tohow our bodies have evolved just
over time being on the planet, right?
And So what you're saying here is what we need to do in order
for optimal longevity and mtor, what we need to do is go through
these periods of high protein and almost think of it as like
almost through like a, you can not like a bulking face.

(39:09):
That's not what I mean here. But going through maybe like the
winter months where the higher protein, that's where we're
putting on maybe our winter coat, we're adding some lean
mass. And then as the seasons shift,
almost what we could do is bringthe protein down to a little bit
more of like a maintenance level, maybe bring in more fruit
or carbs, whatever it is. And there there's a way that we

(39:30):
can eat cyclically so we can reduce things like mtor and that
will like ideally increase longevity, health span.
Precisely. Would that be it?
That's that's the nicest bow I've heard.
You're you're absolutely right. I love it.
It is it's it's seasonal, if youwill.
Sure. And there's, there's a couple

(39:51):
key concepts that I think are easy to lose sight of.
There's 2 words really balance. I don't like that word because I
think it's absurd, especially ifyou're a high performer.
But the other word we learned probably in the first two days
of medical school is something called homeostasis, returning to
a baseline. But here's what's cool is the

(40:12):
way the human body, and just like you said, we've evolved,
we've adapted, OK, the body is incredibly gifted.
At resolving extreme stress. Does that make sense?
Yes. Let me let me tell you though,
the body is severely maladapted to chronic stress.

(40:34):
Do you see the difference? So periodization to me should
occur in the form of intense periods of time, just like you
said. Common sense.
Yeah. The fruits don't grow on trees
in winter, so how are you going to OK I'm a high fruit guy.
That's not biologically possible.

(40:57):
It exists in our world because we can but but taking a
periodization approach is critical.
And here's a real key thing Max is if you understand basic
nutritional principles, the protein threshold for anabolism
is what I just said. 1.2 to 1.5gright?
3 grams of leucine per eating episode.

(41:19):
OK, but but maintenance protein requirements.
So if you have 110 lbs of skeletal muscle mass today Max,
I just want to keep you at 110. I just don't want to lose that
muscle mass. That maintenance is probably as
low as 0.5g per pound. Do you see that's that's a

(41:41):
third. So I so I think both parties are
right. Eat high protein.
Eat low protein. Just do it strategically and do
it with defined endpoints. Yeah, 100%.
And I think you use the term what is the body searching for
over time. It is like it's a it's a level
or point of homeostasis. Like our our body is so damn

(42:05):
cool in regards to how it it strives to adapt to what we eat,
what we do in our environment. And when you think about what is
your body constantly doing day in and day out, Like your whole
entire energy system is basically trying to adapt based

(42:26):
off of your environment, what you're eating, how you're
working out. And it only makes sense if you
want to see continual progress, right?
And this is where I think peoplehave it wrong in terms of
becoming very religious to to their diets.
We can talk about this, OK, The people that are are have been

(42:48):
keto for multiple years, the people that are on a carnivore
diet for multiple years, the people that stick and become
religious to a diet because it worked and it worked because
they they made that change. And then what happens is they
stick to that diet because it worked.
They don't want to deviate. They tell everyone about it.
It's the best thing since slicedbread.

(43:10):
But what typically happens is their body, the their body
adapts and what they need to do is make the change.
But the problem is they don't want to make the change because
it's become part of their identity and all those other
elements. And I think that's maybe a
bigger conversation we can get into here.
But I think that's probably one of the biggest problems we've
got in this diet culture is these diets, whether it's low

(43:34):
carb or whether it's keto or carnivore or whatever, In my
opinion, they're tools. They're they're, they're tools,
right? And you want to flex and
leverage these tools cyclically and through, through
periodization throughout the year in order to keep the body
guessing, keep certain markers down like mtor, whatever the

(43:55):
case is. But that's what keeps us
progressing. I think this is what we're
talking about. That's it.
And I, to be honest with you, it's taken me quite, quite a bit
of time to get to a point where this conversation makes more
sense to me as well. Just just to be honest, because
I do think the human brain and, and, and again, we've been

(44:16):
conditioned with some of the environments we existed today.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it,right?
Hey, if it's working for you, don't.
My challenge to every one of my clients is you're, you're,
you're in the driver's seat, OK.If we're proactively modifying
or altering. And again, like I said, why do I

(44:36):
advocate? We can get into the science
behind it, but I don't advocate for intermittent fasting when I
have a client come in and say, hey, I'm a big advocate for you.
I'm going to tell you right now,we're not doing that anymore.
OK? Now I will suggest prolonged
fasting greater than 24 hours. Why?
Because it's a much more extremebehavior in the body, just like

(45:01):
you said that Just trust me, I'ma doctor, right?
The more extreme the stress, themore powerful the adaptive
response. Does that make sense?
So for someone that is obese whoconsumes 500 plus grams of sugar
a day, going carnivore actually is very extreme.

(45:22):
Sure. Why does carnivore work?
Because it's an extreme physiologic change to the body.
Yeah. Why does carnivore not
necessarily work years and yearsand years later?
Because the body adapts. We know that from I mean the
greatest example is The Biggest Loser.
I don't know if you've seen the networks documentary, I have my

(45:45):
own biases there, but you put someone in extreme environment,
it works. The problem is if it's not
sustainable, the body will adaptand it will reset to.
If not, if you're not careful, it will reset back to that

(46:06):
original normal. So we have to use and this is
where the science piece of the puzzle comes into place.
This is why I'm obsessive arounddata because here's the deal.
I tell clients when I first meetthem, I used to think of myself
as the Google Maps of longevity and performance.
OK, you know how to hit me Max. I don't want to be Google Maps

(46:27):
because Google Maps only works if you have a high, a high
resolution GPS. I want to be the GPS, right?
Because think about when your Google Maps, your kids, your
kids, right? Our kids are now solely
dependent on an intact GPS because otherwise Google Maps
just keep saying rerouting, rerouting, rerouting, right?
So in order to achieve success in the most efficient manner

(46:50):
possible, we have to have a veryclear path plotted, but then we
have to have a mechanism to tellus if we get off track.
That's what GPS is, right? It's just extremely high
resolution. You're pinging that satellite
every 2.5 seconds. That's what we do in my
practice, constantly accumulating data and

(47:10):
reintegrating those data points.Hey, if I, if I make a left turn
when it should have been a right, I want to know that
within about the 1st 5 seconds of making the wrong turn.
Diets, exercise, all the models we pursue in the world today,
you don't know you made the wrong turn for months upon

(47:30):
months upon months. And if you're really lucky, it
takes years and you can't figureout right.
How many people do you hear about?
I've been doing it all right. I've been doing my cardio, but
I'm not seeing change. Well, that's one of two reasons
you're up. You don't know where you are or
two, what you're doing is not extreme enough.
No, I'm not saying you need to be a Navy SEAL.

(47:51):
What I'm talking about is restricting calories for 24
hours. OK, and for other the people out
there, you will survive. No one's going to die on on a 24
hour fast. But that compared to a
cumulative 24 hour fast using anintermittent fasting strategy
has radically different metabolic effects.

(48:13):
A. 100% agree. Oh, absolutely.
So let's not make it because that my biggest criticism with
intermittent fasting is, listen,generally speaking, you do
anything day over day over day over day, it is going to lose
its potency over time. The body adapts like we were
just saying, yeah, yeah, your body, your body is going to
recognize the times in which youeat if you're doing intermittent

(48:35):
fasting. And I play around with a lot of
different intermittent fasting strategies I've done like OMAD
and alternate day fasting. But the the the key to see
success with that is to change out your is to change the
fasting times. If you every single day are
eating at noon and six two big meals, that'll work until the
body recognizes it and and and learns it and then you're going

(48:58):
to have to switch it up. I want to I I know we're coming
up here on time a little bit. This has been a fantastic
conversation. I've got some other things I
want to to get into you, Doc, Wewere talking about this at the
very beginning. You're clearly an in shape guy.
You look great. And we were talking about my
number one rule at the beginning, right.
Don't take nutritional advice from someone you wouldn't want

(49:19):
to look like. Can you maybe walk us through
what your day-to-day looks like in terms of when you wake up,
when you first eat, when you work out supplements, you take
night time routine just just like a typical day.
So people get a good understanding of how you are
specifically living on a day-to-day, you know, maybe so
they can incorporate some of thesame principles.

(49:39):
Yeah, for sure. So again, you ended the question
with the word principles, and that's the key to me.
I've done everything extreme, like you said.
I've played around with the fastings, the diets, the calorie
counting, so on and so forth. I've landed on a couple really
powerful technologies and tools that I think have have enabled

(50:01):
me to not sit around and count calories, to have a general
concept of what's going in my body and and be purposeful.
By the way, that's rule #5 I didn't say, but fuel with a
purpose. Be purposeful about what you do.
We're talking about nutrition, but whether it's spiritual
health, mental health, physical health, be purposeful.

(50:24):
My, my, the guy I work out with,you know, he, he, he says
intentionality is everything. So being intentional with what
you eat and why you eat, no difference than being
intentional about spending time with your kids, right?
So my day-to-day, because I do, I wear two big professional
hats. I still am doing surgery four to

(50:44):
five days a week. So my surgery day starts
typically at 7 AMI. My habits based on two young
kids are anything but optimized and I'm very transparent about
that. I think it's also what I try to
engage with clients about is I have to look at each individual
within the context of who they are and what their life is.

(51:08):
If I tell someone with two youngkids, I know what that's like.
Why need you getting exactly 8 hours of sleep?
I need you, right? We've come up with this whole
list. Well, when are they going to
eat, go to work, play with theirkids, right?
It all all of a sudden just becomes ridiculous.
So I'm, I'm typically up 6:00 AM.
This goes back to, and I'm goingto break this down maybe for for

(51:30):
your purposes, where am I at in,in my annual cycle?
So right now, currently today, I'm in a muscle gaining cycle.
So I eat first thing in the morning, I fuel with a purpose,
I concentrate my carbs and calories in the first meal of
the day. In fact, what I aim for, call me

(51:51):
crazy, is about 60% of my total daily calories first meal of the
day. Oh wow, interesting.
OK, cool. Why?
Because I need fuel. I'm good.
Why would I? I mean, if you break it down
that way and look at percentages, why would the
average American, by the way, eat 65% of their daily calories

(52:13):
the last meal of the day? My question is, my question is
just very simple. Let's keep it basic.
Why? What are you, what do you think
your body's doing with all that fuel when you're parking your
car in it up at your winter Mountain Home and you're leaving
it there and you're not going totouch it for six months?
Do you make sure you top off thefuel tank?

(52:35):
Why would that doesn't make any sense.
Like I said, are you a doomsday guy?
Or you can put gas in the in thetrunk and then park it in the
garage. All someone's got to do is light
a cigarette and we're done. So, so I concentrate carbs and
calories first thing in the morning.
And then I also the other piece of periodization is how I break
out my fuel sources based on my training goals.

(52:57):
So again, I'm in the operating room, I'm always on my feet.
One general principle I live live by is movement.
Just like muscle is medicine. Whenever possible, move.
Get in the habit. This is a a rarity for me to be
sitting in a chair. I pace, get in the habit of
pacing. When you're on the phone with
your buddy, go outside and walk in circles.

(53:20):
You're going to look goofy, but move.
What is what's so bad? We live in a in a over fueled
sedentary society. Change those two things and you
change a lot. OK, so calories, carbs early and
then I always consume carbs based on a training day.
If it's a heavy resistance training day, like I said, right
now I'm in a muscle building phase.

(53:41):
By the way, overtraining under training equally bad.
There is an optimal training. I'm 47 years old, I just turned
47. My target is 3 intense resistant
training sessions a week. That's my that's become my sweet
spot. I see so many people come in and
they're like, I work out six days a week.

(54:01):
OK, let's start there. Because either you're not
training at a high level intensity because you're working
out too much or you're you're unnecessarily exhausting or
fatiguing with risk of injury. OK, we'll connect again, I'm
sure, but I'll tell, I'll give you all my other injury stories

(54:24):
and how it relates. But so my target is 3 high
intensity resistance training sessions a week.
OK. I try to layer in cardio
metabolic activity anytime I train, so that's the other piece
of the puzzle for me. So you don't split the days up.
You don't you, you, you like you, you typically, it sounds
like to me you do like a Monday,Wednesday, Friday or Tuesday,

(54:44):
Thursday, Saturday, and then you'll, you'll do the training
and, and the cardio in the same session.
You don't do like the cardio days in between the training.
So in an ideal world, I would love to be able to layer in
cardio on other days. My goal for me when I especially
when I'm in a muscle or heavy resistance training phase with

(55:06):
my schedule, and that's what I'malso trying to, to, to prove out
to people is my fitness and biomarker, my metrics that trend
VO2 Max lean body mass, the the biomarkers I trend myself have
improved remarkably by adjustingmy training schedule.
So three days for a 40 somethingyear old guy.

(55:29):
If you're training at Max intensity, that probably is.
And that's what the scientific evidence would would trend
towards. Again, efficiency.
Gone are the days of being in the gym. 2 hours above all else.
You don't have two hours. But here's the more important
thing. Max, you don't need 2 hours.
OK, if you're if you're really training two hours and you're
not a professional athlete, I'm going to call BS, right?

(55:53):
You're either sitting there talking to your buddies, so it's
not a you're not a Max intensityguy or or.
You're dealing dialing on the phone.
That's that's what I think, yeah, yeah.
So go in there, isolate out whatI do.
I isolate out 45 minutes. So I know this is way more
elaborate of an answer than you wanted Max.

(56:14):
No, this is great. That's what I that's what I
target. I target sauna post training
session whenever possible. What kind of sauna?
High heat? Dry finish 185° or above 20
minutes after session. So I'm always trying to push so
I'm in a muscle building phase but I'm still trying to use
every adjunct to optimize cardiopulmonary performance.

(56:36):
One of the best modalities that's zero intensity is high
heat sauna. Does that make sense?
Yes it does. So how you eat sauna to improve
VO2 Max? Even would not would not
training towards VO2 Max. I got it.
I limit cold exposure, I limit anti inflammatories during that
precision muscle health phase and then again my my protein in

(57:01):
intake 1.2 to 1.5g. I love the high protein approach
then that makes a lot of sense. And it's really just giving me
some ideas on how I can going back to like eating cyclically,
periodization. It's giving me some ideas on,
you know, things that I might beable to change up with my own
training routine and, and diet and protein intake.

(57:21):
I, I, I love it. I know we're coming up here on
time. I had a couple other questions.
I want to be respectful of what you, what else you got going on
for the rest of your day. But I did want to get into some
of the optimization stuff beforewe kind of wrap up here because
I know your clinic offers like NAD and peptide and hormone
optimization. What would be maybe the top five

(57:43):
things someone could implement in terms of diet, lifestyle, and
compounds that you might recommend in order to see like
solid optimization right out of the?
Gate Yeah. So I think, you know, if we're
going to simplify it down above all else, have the nutrient

(58:08):
content, quality and consistencyto achieve the end goal.
So like we we have said, build muscle more protein, maintain
muscle less protein. OK #2 creatine dirt cheap,
maximize muscle and brain performance OK Strong mind,

(58:31):
strong body is longevity in a nutshell.
Metabolic optimization because of the world we live in, OK, We,
we just have to be realist OK? The likelihood that you eat
Whole Foods, farm to table and you're not either a trillionaire

(58:51):
or live in a commune is essentially 0.
So I live in a real world where I ask people to do real things.
So my go to metabolic supplementis dihydro berberine the most
potent right? Are you familiar, Berberine?
I'm familiar with Berber Berberine, but I'm not really

(59:12):
specific with that that that exact compound you just said, So
what? Does that do dihydro Berberine
is a in the berberine family. It's just a more concentrated
bio available form. So let's just think berberine.
But why berberine? Metformin, which sadly I hear a
lot of people talk about, which is a pharmaceutical compound

(59:36):
does a couple things. But in in classic terms, it was
the great optimizer for insulin sensitivity.
Like I said, of those 3 components to longevity, muscle,
heart, lungs, metabolic insulin sensitivity.
Bear in mind, here's what's cool.
I didn't get into this, but realquick understand that insulin
sensitivity is really at the root.

(59:57):
It is the root cause of metabolic dysfunction.
It is we can get into it. I can do all the whole science
and everything. It's at the root cause of of
death and dying today in the United States.
OK, understand why do I say thattype 2 diabetes is sort of the.
The stage 4 insulin resistance, it's the most advanced sort of

(01:00:21):
the the terminal point of insulin resistance.
And if you look at the data in the leading causes of death in
the United States, they and whatdiabetics experience, there's a
three fold higher risk of cardiovascular death.
There's a 2 1/2 fold higher riskof stroke.
There's a 2.8 to 3 point X higher risk of dementia, OK,

(01:00:41):
Like there's a 2 1/2 X, by the way, higher risk of cancer.
The four leading causes of deathin the United States today.
Insulin resistance, metabolic disease, that progression to
diabetes, it has an exponential impact.
So fix insulin resistance and let's talk.
Is that a deal A? 100%.
So that's why dihydro berberine as a naturopathic or

(01:01:04):
nutraceutical source of improvedinsulin sensitivity.
I won't get into the mechanism stuff and also activation of
something called AM PK, the AMPKpathway is one of the classic
longevity pathways here we can get into the weeds of it.
Dihydro berberine as a natural occurring substance is the most
potent activator of those. So without a doubt promoting

(01:01:29):
insulin sensitivity and the product I use has dihydro
berberine and something called NC which moderates glucose
spikes. OK, that's, is that fair?
#3 Yeah. Number four, yeah, everybody
wants to know, OK, well, if you could only take one supplement,
it's like I would say optimize your vitamin and mineral status.

(01:01:51):
What people leave off the table,I'd say most commonly are trace
minerals. OK, so have a good quality of
life. Methylated B vitamins, OK, in
the form of a multivitamin. Magnesium is low hanging fruit
that gets left off almost uniformly.
Everybody's like, well, what form I use glycinate in three in

(01:02:12):
eight in combination, magnesium glycinate and magnesium three in
eight, strong mind, strong body glycinate, metabolic health,
muscle performance, three in eight crosses the blood brain
barrier, improves cognition, sleep, etcetera.
Is that fair? That's great. #5 get off your

(01:02:34):
ass, move. OK, The idea that I have, I, I
did a reaction video recently. This guy's like, well, you got
to work out like a Navy SEAL andjust how about this?
Get off your ass and move. Just walk, start there.
Is it going to make you look like yourself, Max?

(01:02:54):
No, it's not. But movement as a starting point
is going to address so much in the form of metabolic
dysfunction, muscle health and cardio pulmonary health.
No, it's not sprints, but it's something.
So that that's where I would start.
OK, that's and that's beautiful.Last, I got 2 questions here

(01:03:17):
that I, that I, I definitely like to ask a lot of my more
fitness guests because I know you're a doctor that likes to
work out. So I want to ask you some
movement and exercise questions here real quick.
Top five foods. If you can only eat 5 foods for
the rest of your Life, OK, what would they be?
With what in what in point in mind?

(01:03:39):
Well, I, I know this is kind of a funny question now because we
were talking about eating cyclically, but let's, let's,
let's maybe better frame it thenfor performance.
Maybe. We're in a muscle building
phase, the phase that you're in right now that you were talking
about earlier. We're in a muscle building
phase. We want to put on more lean mass
top five foods. Grass fed beef number one.

(01:04:02):
That's my go to protein source leaner beef better don't don't
waste the unhealthy taste piece of the puzzle.
I love ground bison 9010 is a isa workhorse.
I eat pounds of that a day. So ensuring quality source of
protein #2 to to balance even ina high protein phase, oily

(01:04:24):
fishes. There's no reason that the
argument with carnivore is the ingestion of saturated fats,
animal based fats. So balance out with oily fish,
your fuel sources have to be high, high, high quality.
OK, if you're a grains person, don't touch anything but

(01:04:45):
sprouted grains. There really is just there.
There is not necessary the idea that you need to spike glucose
off the charts to get an insulinspike in all as a you're much
better with sustained stable glucose levels and the insulin
response to that and not dealingwith metabolic dysfunction by
workhorses, orange vegetables. So that's sweet potatoes,

(01:05:08):
carrots, yams, that that piece of the puzzle.
Any specific reason or or or whyaround the color specifically?
Moderate optimal moderate GI carbs.
OK, got. Oh, all right, that makes sense.
I didn't know if it was a beta carotene thing or.
Something like that. Definitely not.
No, no, no. You're talking performance,

(01:05:28):
right? We're talking, we're really
focused on building blocks, amino acids and fuel sources.
And if you're in a muscle building phase, and I'm guilty
of this, I have done the low carb muscle building.
It doesn't work for 1000 reasons.
So carbs aren't bad, put them togood use.
Always fuel again, I'm fueling consuming 75%.

(01:05:52):
By the way, 75% of my daily carbs come before my workout.
Interesting. I will right So all the
repletion data I I I that's a whole other conversation, but
you know, well, you should you should overload carbs post
training. You know you should replete
carbs. The data does support that but
you should do it in one hour blocks of time to progressively

(01:06:16):
re accumulate versus The Dirty bulk where you go to Dairy Queen
and and house Yeah 3 milkshakes so used.
To do that in my 20s. No, I used to do a lot of thing
in my 20's, the last 30 better than the first.
And then you want to know like workhorse for fuel black beans.
Black beans are do you know you know of Tim Ferriss?

(01:06:40):
I'm a big fan. You know what, we were chatting
the other day, I saw that book on your desk and I read, I read
The Four Hour Body. Oh man, when did that?
That was and I think I read thatbook in 2010 or 9 or. 11
something like that, you got to be right.
And I went on the slow carb diet, the slow, the slow carb
diet. I went on that diet.
We're great. Yeah, shocking, right?

(01:07:02):
And, and and, oh, but so Tim Ferriss.
I'm obsessed with Four Hour Body.
I read it and during my first tour in Afghanistan, black bean.
You know he there's a chapter onblack beans.
I wouldn't suggest anyone only eat black beans for the sake of
their colon. But but black beans.
But black beans are workhorse and then and then again, eating

(01:07:24):
to optimization. Don't forget your quality fats.
And honestly, I would probably live on truly Max steak, black
beans, avocado. That would be my workforce.
All right. Last question here.
It's going to be on the workout side of things.
You have 10 exercises and now let's frame it now because we're

(01:07:46):
talking about eating cyclically in the in the frame that you're
in right now, which is a muscle building frame.
We only have 10 exercises that we can do for the rest of our
life. OK, whether, whether what, what,
what, what period that you're inright now.
Let's maybe kind of scratch thatfor a quick second.
We've got 10 exercises we can dofor the rest of their life.

(01:08:08):
What are they for you specifically?
Got it. That is a doozy.
Again, I told you I'm a philosophy guy.
Above all else, resistance. I think there's a role for body
weight exercises, but only if it's in the form of Max
resistance. In other words, pull ups and

(01:08:30):
maybe body weight squats would be would be on there.
But pull ups for sure. That is by far and away the most
powerful tool. But again, focus on compound
movements. Resistance trained the work, the
workhorses. Now I don't squat anymore
because I've I've got some back issues.

(01:08:51):
I do extremely heavy belt squatsto train.
That's really my workhorse for lower extremity training.
So no, it's not gold standard ofa conventional barbell squat,
but belt squats is huge especially.
And those are phenomenal for taking the pressure off the
spine and basically more so applying it to the hips because
you wear the belt around the hiparea and you squat down.

(01:09:13):
Yeah, yeah. No, that, that's great.
Yeah, compound upper extremity movements and I just had neck
surgery, so now overhead press is out.
But I love landmine work as a way to protect overhead stress,
but also maximize the the potential of the core on up.
So I would actually include something called a Viking press.

(01:09:37):
It's a little bit off the beatentrail.
You kind of push like that, right?
Yeah. Yep, so you don't.
I'm a spine guy for a living. You don't stress post your
chain, your facets as much. So where am I at?
Am I at 4? Yeah, I think so.
So you said pull ups, you said belt squat, You got the Viking
press. Viking Press OK.

(01:10:01):
Then again, if I, if I had, if it was safe for me to do more
mobility snatches and cleans both because again, they're
huge, huge, huge heavy compound lifts.
I let's see. So that puts me at 5:00.
Yep. More at 5:00.

(01:10:22):
Man alive, so much to choose from.
I would I would do a very a powerful chest torso lift.
I'm a huge advocate for an incline press Max resistance
because you get really the entirety of the upper upper
anterior torso. And again, I'd lean on on

(01:10:47):
probably weighted, we'll say weighted pull ups, but we
already kind of covered that core and mobility is huge I.
Was going to ask anything for the ABS.
Yeah, yeah. So I, I am a believer of not
like, hey, you get your abs witheverything else doing isolated
core movements I think are huge.The the best.

(01:11:08):
I know it's termed a lot of different things, but try to
think the best, best way basically like spider crunches.
So a reverse reverse curl to extension.
OK, does that make sense? I like it on a you're playing.
On your back and you're. I'm trying to think.
You're secured overhead here, OK.

(01:11:29):
And you're going on a essentially on a reverse incline
like on a decline bench. Got it.
Yes, yes. Right.
So I think that's that's huge for I think that's your best
core. And then the rest I would
include have a cardio metabolic focus, sled work, rope work, by

(01:11:53):
by by by a long shot, and then again, integration into compound
complex movements. So I'm a big echo bike combo guy
because it's a whole body. You know, sprints for me for
1000 reasons don't work great. But whether you row, whether you

(01:12:15):
do an echo bike or whether you do the ultimate to me, I'll also
my love hate is skierg. Oh yeah.
So that's how I would round it out.
Beautiful. Well said Doctor Chef.
This was absolutely fantastic man.
I feel like you dropped a ton ofvalue for the listeners.
Where can people find you online, get in contact with you,

(01:12:37):
find your stuff, potentially work with you?
Yeah, please, please follow me. Instagram is just my name and
hopefully we can put a link at John Chef.
I will high yield day-to-day applicable content.
Our website longevitylabwellness.com

(01:12:58):
reflects on our entire brand. But really the clinical aspects
are what I am so passionate about driving.
Those are those are the ways to to link up.
Please follow, please engage thequestions, the thought provoking
and yeah, the discourse. I don't think I'm right, that's
just my disclaimer, but I I do know how to read.

(01:13:22):
I do know how to self educate. And you are a human being, which
gives you the the right to talk about diet.
Thank you. Fair enough.
Yeah, it was. This was great.
Like I said, I'll put all the that information in the show
notes so people can find you andI'll tag you and everything.
So yeah, again, this was great. And for everyone else out there,

(01:13:43):
thanks guys for listening to theLow Carb Consultant podcast.
We'll catch you guys on the nextone.
Keep up the good work Max. You're awesome man.
Thanks bud. Thanks.