March 3, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode, the OGX team dives into the shifting landscape of softball coaching, exploring the contrast between old school and new school approaches. They discuss how data analytics is becoming an essential tool for coaches while emphasizing the importance of maintaining the human side of coaching. The conversation highlights the challenges of interpreting and applying sports data, transparency and trust within coaching relationships, and the need for coaches to adapt to stay relevant. W...
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
Back for another episode and I got supple on in the background
so it is a good day. I'm watching the Puerto Vallarta
1 and wishing that I was somewhere warm outside.
There's an ice rink here, so I. Don't know how you do that,
because imagine if I had ATV on here.
First of all, I would ignore thepodcast.
And then I would scream. Well, I might do that.
(00:26):
We don't know. OK, so we got the OSU Florida
State game on, which is a like awesome start to the season.
We're going to start with a bangwith a good match up.
Right now OSU is in the lead andI think we're in the top of the
7th, so almost over here. But yeah, Southwest season is
upon us. Last week we had some the two
(00:46):
games and so I, this is like my favorite time because it's good
games and they're literally fromlike 8:00 AM until 10:00 PM.
And so at any given time you canturn softball on.
Like conference matchups are awesome and competitive, but
it's like one game and then you can't watch softball anymore.
This is like we can binge, we can binge some softball, so.
(01:07):
On the flip side, I hate this time of year.
Not hate. That's too much.
I love this time of year. On the flip side, I hate the
tournament setup because when you're looking at how so much
the pitchers have to throw, I'm like, holy crap, six games in
three days, like this is travel ball, you know, and I'm like
from a standpoint of like from aconsulting side, we're looking
(01:28):
at like people don't have the Staffs for six games in three
days, you know, like that's the only I will say asterisk.
I love that. I'm excited about the time of
the year. I'm excited about it starting,
but the tournament set up, Damn,we need to like double our
Staffs for this, you know? Yeah, yeah.
That's cute that you think that's like travel ball.
Right, that would be travel ball.
(01:49):
Like on the best day that travelball ever existed.
Yeah, I would have two, Two. I would have loved that.
Yeah, 22 would have been great. That's funny.
Today we were going to talk about.
So part of this, I think got this is like terms that people
use kind of like flippantly, like they just like throw it
around as though they everyone knows what the definition is.
(02:11):
But then at the NFCA fireside chat, someone asked kind of a
specific question around this. And so I think the answer to
that and it's just like got kindof our our brains going.
So the question really is like this concept of old school
versus new school. Speaking of yelling, Oklahoma
State just hit a home run. So this is distracting.
I've turned it off. I was like, OK, the concept is
(02:37):
old school versus new school. So the person asking the
question was kind of like, how do we know like what is right
and what to keep up with and, and all of these concepts.
And so I think just first of all, like, I think my question
is like, is there an old school versus new school?
Like what does that mean when wesay that?
What are people, you know, trying to say?
(02:58):
I think for us, those concepts like don't even really make
sense of like what that means, which is kind of how you
answered it and the thing. But yeah, let me just kick it to
you first, Ash. But maybe with like how you
answered it then and then we cankind of go from there.
I said during the fireside chat at the NFCA convention that I
don't think of it as old school,new school.
I think of it as being data informed versus using.
(03:24):
Like the art of coaching and theway we operate at OGX is that we
use data to help us be, to like help form the art of coaching
for us or help influence the artof coaching.
Like you don't pin one against the other.
I think there was a podcast likemonths ago where I said, like my
dad always gets pissed off when he's watching the Phillies
(03:45):
because he's like some dude fromthe front office going to come
down with a piece of paper and put it on the manager's, you
know, like lap. And then he's just going to like
make a decision off of that paper.
Like where's your soul? You know, like something like
that, that that's not like, I think, I don't know.
I think we're moving away from thinking like that's what we're
doing here. We're taking in all information
we can. Sometimes that information is
(04:07):
subjective, but a large part of it has to be objective.
So this element of understanding, this is what a
picture does. Well, this is how I'm going to
leverage that. This is how many times through
the lineup she can go, this is who she should match up with.
It's still in this element. Like I just got off a consultant
call where it was like, OK, let's lay out all the things we
know about this picture. We first went to all the
(04:27):
objective, where is she velocitywise right now?
How are we feeling about her command?
What's her brake profile? How many changes speeds does she
have? Let's understand exactly who she
is, what our approach is with her when she's facing hitters.
And then you tell me how you're feeling about her right now.
Like yes, her tools say that shecan go 2 times through a lineup,
but I know like when she gets inthere, like tell me about her
(04:49):
personality. Tell me that like I think these
tools should she should start a game because of this.
And you're like, she just can't handle that.
Like she, her performance anxiety, we take in all the
information. So the reason why we don't see
it as old school, new school is because we're like, no, it's
info. And for a really long time in
the game, we didn't have the objective data.
(05:10):
So every decision was just made off of anything subjective you
were seeing. And so now I'm like, no, we can
enhance those decisions. We can have, we can be better
decision makers because we're not just using our own
subjective is what we think about her.
This is what we also have information.
We're going to combine the two of them.
So to us, it kind of seems kind of like silly.
(05:31):
Now, I will say that's one world.
We're like, I'm thinking of it like within a pitching coach,
for example, this idea of like old.
School, I want to, I just pause you for one second because I
think like it's so interesting because I think that is what
people mean, but that's not whatold school, new school means.
You're saying use of data versusnot use of data.
Like, so this idea, we just throw these terms around to like
(05:51):
say something's bad, except we're not being direct about
what we are because I think of like, if what we are saying is
it's bad to be new school, it's bad to take in new information
and apply it. If we were forget data out the
window. It's like at the time I played,
we changed from a white ball to a yellow ball.
We changed from a certain type of bat to composite bats.
(06:14):
Like there was a time period where we went from like a rocker
start to a Sprint start. And all of that was based off of
information that people were getting.
Like I, I videoed to start typesand you got off the base faster
in a Sprint type. And so then college programs
around it or suddenly at Auburn,they were doing the jump for
defense because they did some studies that that worked.
(06:34):
And so then people were like, oh, OK, we should do a little
hot preset because we can move more.
All of that is taking in new information and applying it,
which is why to me, this idea oflike old school versus new
school, it's like at what point?So we have to when people say
that and, and how we hear it. And what I felt like the person
was asking in that is that we have somehow determined that new
(06:56):
is fine unless it's data, unlessyou're being driven new data.
And then it's like, oh, old school versus new school.
We have that. And that to me is just confusing
because we've always as coaches,like that's part of what you
have done is strives have an edge, strived to have some
information that people don't have yet or to learn or to grow.
And so it's like we only startedusing that language when it got
(07:20):
to like data analytics and that type of approach.
Because there's this Chris, Chris, there's this mindset that
like there's like a data nerd pumping out and.
That's what you're saying because it's an idea that
somehow someone who's not a coach has come in and like
taught you how to coach. And it's like, that's not what's
happening. Like in the same way that like
(07:42):
the person who initially like wehad when we started doing Sprint
starts in college, the track coach came and taught us
literally like we had to track coach come to our practice and
learn how to do like sprinter starts.
So it's like, what is the difference?
Just because that's a coach, It's also an outside person has
nothing to do with softball, youknow, like that kind of stuff
happens all the time. So it's like, it's like a hatred
(08:03):
of nerds. It's basic right now, revenge of
the nerds I that it would be an example of of me saying like I
think this drop ball is this athletes not I think this drop
ball is this athletes best pitch.
She's got to try to lean into the identity and they're like
what? Like she's a curved screw and
like I watch her be able to likethrow her best pitcher curve
(08:24):
screw. And I'm like, I'm not saying the
curve screw are like bad, but ifyou want to maximize her and
maximize her potential. And so they're like the numbers
are driving what we're trying tolike mold her into.
That's the world we're comfortable living in at OGX all
the time. We give that one example of that
athlete who came as a senior in high school, was already
committed to a Big 10 school only through curve rise.
(08:46):
They were bullet pitches, which is fine, not overpowering in V
low spin rates weren't high. And her neutral fastball was
like -9 and was like, what the heck?
And she had never thrown it because it was called fastball.
And so we helped her like reallylean in that that summer or that
spring season in high school, lean into the identity of a drop
ball pitcher just by understanding that's my
fastball, that's what I should do.
(09:07):
And then she had an incredible freshman year in college.
And so we use that example all the time.
That was an example of like letting the data push something
that was like not based in old school.
Old school would have been like,well, she commands, she feels
better about curve. Screw she.
We don't throw fastballs. He's like, you're stuck on
(09:28):
something, you know. And so but the reality is it's
risk reward always. So we are like your highest
reward as if you are willing to lean into this approach.
So go for it. And there's no chance.
I mean no chance. I may not have a crystal ball,
but I would bet anything in the world that if she went into a
freshman year in college and threw that rise curve, that was
(09:51):
like a nothing pitch. It's just a compliment pitch.
There's no chance she would havehad this success that she had.
So I think that's like a good concrete example of like if you
had fully gone into some like old school approach and how, you
know, we took this like new information, this data to help
push. Now, I think there's a world
where like the art of coaching, when we explain this to her was
(10:12):
like, listen, I know this is tough, you know, like in the
delivery of it. Let's maybe just see you have
the high school season. Can we start with you just
trying to raise the percentage of time that you throw that
fastball from this to this. Let's ease into it.
Let's just focus on your you feeling good about commanding it
through the zone. Like we eased into it.
There's an art of coaching. Instead of just coming in,
(10:32):
giving her a piece of paper thatwas like you, you should throw
drop balls and walking out the door, right?
Like we know there are other human factors to this.
When someone looks at you like what you know, that you've got
to really try to get them there.That's all the arts of, I guess
you'd call it art of coaching. It's the art of delivering
information. Personal relational dynamics.
This is like what you have to. Coaching her, yeah.
(10:54):
It's just, I, I was thinking of an example and this is travel
ball, lower stakes, you get awaywith more things.
So I'm not saying like this is as simple as what colleges deal
with, but I had a pitcher, she was a backspin, crazy backspin,
super high spin rate, like crazybackspin.
She got committed to a Power 5 school because of that pitch and
(11:15):
she had a game where she was starting to get hit a little bit
and, and I went out and she was like, I just want to throw my
curve. I can, I can locate it.
I feel like comfortable, I can get out of this if you just let
me throw my curve. And I was like, you got it.
And she did. She got out of it throwing that.
Now the difference is this isn'tlike and now forever you should
throw your curve like because weknew like that pitch at the next
(11:35):
level is not that like the the data and all the evidence we now
have ability to access that pitch.
Being faced at the level you aregoing is not going to work like
that. But there's a level of like, OK,
let's see what if we can do it with that.
There are these moments where you might veer off the course
they're going and where you use the data for is like, we can't
(11:57):
do that long term because that'snot going to hold up forever.
And if you think that's evidencethat that's going to hold up
forever, like now we've gone toofar into the other category.
Yeah. But I think it's like, of
course, you still use the art ofcoaching.
I say this all the time. Like I think I feel so much more
freed up to be able to focus on the relationship aspect and the
(12:21):
competition conversation and reading when the, you know, and
travel ball. We had a lot of pitchers with
mental, you know, struggles and travel ball now and being able
to read that and focus my energyon that instead of just like,
well, I don't know why this pitch is getting hit.
Like I got to focus on why her curve is getting hit.
(12:41):
It's like, well, I knew like what happened when that pitch
got bad or why that pitch would get hit or the percentage is I
should be throwing things. And so I just think like it
actually frees it up. And that to me, the actual
conversation is you're using oldschool, new school as like code
to go after data. And it's like, let's just really
talk about what that means. Because when I, when we played
(13:03):
the very like my senior year, right view pro came out,
everyone used it. It was a video that could draw
lines on it like it was new and then we used it.
So it's like we used all those new tools, we had video, we
could do slow MO on our thing, we had coach's eye, we had all
these things and tools that we got access to, we kept using and
we only started really crossing this line when it felt like.
(13:27):
OK, so then basically what we'reactually talking about here,
let's just call this shit out because basically what we're
saying is that no one that we educate about how to analyze
data, understand data and use data is like, no, you know, like
they're like, Oh yeah, this is really helpful actually.
So in reality, anyone who's going to use the phrases old
school news school, they do not understand data.
(13:49):
They are overwhelmed by it. They don't have an understanding
of how to utilize it. And so instead they pin an
argument against it. It's literally.
It's just. It's threatening.
Absolutely. There is no one that fully gets
the power of how that information can inform you.
That's just like, you know, I'd rather not have that.
I would just rather not have that going into this game.
(14:09):
Like I have not met a single person who's who says that.
And so it's this idea of, yes, it threatens them.
They don't know how to use it. And so therefore it makes them
feel like they're less of a coach.
And so they're like, that's that's bad.
I have always known how to do it, you know, like that's the
world. And so like, if that's what
we're talking about, I'm like, I'm not that interested in this
conversation. You're actually can we change
(14:30):
top podcast? I hate, I hate.
That mindset, I was going to askLaura, obviously as someone who
like comes at it more from the delivering the data to coaches.
Now a little biased in the sensethat most of the time when
you're doing that, the coaches are coaches that wants that
information. So, yeah, but I think maybe like
(14:50):
examples of or times where we like our and we have had some
like that's great, Laura. And also like I am the coach on
the cake like on the floor. And so like here's the reality
of it or maybe not on our reality of like, but that's
great. And now we're presenting at this
(15:11):
conference to coaches though. And so like what is going to be
able to be digested? I think we have an example of
this of, you know, we're workinginternally on the hidden
presentation and that's a lot ofthe conversation.
It's like our audience is coaches and they have to be able
to do something with this information.
You're trying to enhance their capabilities, but what has that
experience been like for you? Are there any kind of like key
(15:33):
things you've seen in the in thefocus or things like that?
I was in the middle of a coughing attack in the beginning
of this, so I apologize so I knew.
This, yeah. Through this without that.
Well, I thought you just thoughtI was particularly funny.
No, that's all. I.
Thought that's. Beautiful.
OK, well if you need to pause, you just tell us.
The when you guys were kind of like, you know, talking about
this concept of old versus new, where my brain went was like, I
(15:54):
often see, I'll say maybe like, I'll say younger coaches, it's
not necessarily an age concept, but there, there sometimes is
this like coaching lineage whereplayers have played for a very
storied coach and that coach hada ton of success and they have
set a standard for, you know, something in the game, right,
whether it is wins or offense, defence, whatever.
(16:16):
And I often, you know, I, I get this sense sometimes from
coaches that come from these very sort of storied lineage
programs that they do feel in opposition that like, if I
don't, I don't follow what I've been taught by this human being
over here who had all this success.
And I somehow incorporate the data that I'm like violating
(16:37):
that, right? I think that's sometimes where
that old new school kind of like, I don't know, rears its
ugly head a little bit of like, I have to teach exactly how I
was taught. And the data threatens that.
Sometimes it does, it threatens sometimes the things that we
assume about the success of thatcoach.
It's just that's reality. It's just again, taking in more
(16:59):
information, you know, I will say, transitioning out of
primarily academic audiences andinto a coach audience.
I spent a lot of time teaching. So like breaking down, you know,
complex topics for students is not unfamiliar, but coaches are
a very different, I have to cough, sorry.
Coaches are just a very different audience.
(17:20):
They have like they're they're hungry for information.
And we've talked about how that can both like kind of harm and
hurt them a little bit, right, where you kind of go grab at all
of the things and they sometimesend up paralyzed when having new
information in front of them. And so I think, you know, we
spend so much time trying to make sure that any of our data,
(17:42):
the bio mechanics, any of our reporting is just it's
digestible, not just for the athlete, but also for the coach.
And in my own communication, something that I've really had
to evolve is like some of my favorite conversations are, tell
me what your issues are. Like, let's not talk about
perfect 'cause like we know we live in a dream world, right?
We created it of all of these great systems, this player
(18:02):
development concept. And the reality is that's not
accessible to everybody. And so where I really enjoy
those conversations with coachesis like they're asking questions
of like, I get it, what you guysdo is awesome.
How do I do that? And like, in what capacity do I
do that? And it's those coaches that I'm
like, yes, you're at least getting a foot in the door of
(18:25):
like wanting this information, even if your execution and how
you're utilizing it isn't quote UN quote perfect, you are at
least willing to let that information guide your coaching
decisions. And like, again, I go back to,
you know, I, I compare often evidence based medicine and
evidence based coaching. It's like, what is the research?
(18:46):
What is the data? Say, what is the coach?
The art of coaching, the art of being a clinician, the art of
being the doctor, whoever, whatever your your field is.
And then what does the athlete want?
What are their goals like? It's that information's supposed
to help coaches make decisions more efficiently, more
effectively, and have more confidence in those decisions.
I was just thinking like, it is kind of interesting when you
(19:07):
were first talking, Laura, I waslike, imagine if we all were
like, let's just keep parenting our children like the generation
before. Although there are people out
there who do that probably right, who are just like, as we
get more information on how the like, you know, create like
healthier children, not just physically, mentally,
emotionally, like generation shift until like do it better.
It's not because you're like, itwas done badly.
(19:27):
It was just sort of like we, we learn more information.
But there is, there is a group of people that in audience that
would argue like older was better, right?
The old school way was tougher, stronger, whatever.
I think there's some similarities.
And then I was thinking when my brain switched into like in
medicine, no one would be like, let's perform that surgery like
we did 25 years ago now. Like we know that like the
(19:49):
information allows us to improve.
Our. You know, methodology and our
ways, our the efficiency in which we do things.
So, yeah, it's no different. It really is no different.
I think there's always going to be some element of like when you
feel like the information is overwhelming.
If we didn't exist in the softball world, I think I get
this argument a little more datais in.
It's overwhelming. There's so much of it, you don't
(20:10):
know what to grab. We we pride ourselves.
Our like number one goal, as you're saying, Laura, is to take
data, explain it in a way that is like coach friendly, is to
not have this like we're data nerds.
Because one, we're not, but two,that's not helpful for coaches
to get them to understand, to get them to understand that you
don't have to have everything. You can just take a small piece
(20:31):
and make that work for yourself.Like we spend so much time, we
have so many avenues for coachesto be able to do that.
I think that's why I don't have a lot of empathy for coaches,
just like it's too much. I don't understand because that
would be true except there we put out so many resources to be
able like if you put in a littleeffort, you can actually learn a
(20:51):
lot, you know? So I think that's where that
like my stance and that really comes from.
I think a lot of times too, likeas you learn the data, I think
right now we're probably in thislike last year and I think it's
getting like, sure, I think we're at the part, this data is
new. And so it's probably at its most
(21:13):
counter to what we've always known.
Like it's most likely at this point because it's brand new and
people haven't sort of like shifted in this direction to be
like, oh, I thought that pitch was good and I didn't realize
how much it was getting hit or Ididn't realize she had another
option or I didn't realize that someone who could, you know, for
us, it's also about development so that someone that has this
(21:34):
drop can actually throw a rise. Like I didn't know those things.
And so I think we kind of in thepast two years have been at this
phase in the game where we're learning a lot of information
that's all brand new. And we're starting to hit the
hump where that's not everything's not brand new.
It's just kind of like an expansion at this point on the
the previous data. And I think a lot of times, like
(21:58):
it's not always going to go against what you think like
there is, right? Like if someone says like a
concept all use in hitting is that people will be like she
drops her hands. She does drop her hands.
You're right. But what I have learned from all
the day that we gathered is thatthe most efficient way for you
to attack that is not to do X drill that it's happening
(22:18):
because of this. And we know that because we've
been able to capture this data. And so now this thing is the art
of coaching. You're going to attack her,
dropping her hands in a way that's much more efficient
instead of like, let me try this, let me try this, let me do
this. And the path is going to be so
much more efficient to you. So it's like sometimes it's like
you're, I'm not saying you're wrong with that, but the way
(22:39):
that we all try to randomly attack things or like you want
to teach her an up pitch. And you've been, you guys have
been just like banging your heads against the wall to try to
get this up pitch to do something, something.
And now we have information to say like that kid doesn't have
access to that pitch or she might have access to it in a
different way than you thought about it.
There's like more efficient waysto go after it.
So I think it's this site like this feeling that it's going to
(23:02):
always tell you that you're wrong.
It's not going to always tell you that you're wrong.
It's just going to point you in this direction.
And sometimes that might challenge the way you would have
gotten there before. But I think if you really sit
and think with it, you're like, isn't that great?
And now I don't have to take this winding, insane road and
guess every day like, is this working?
(23:22):
I think about when we used to dothat, it's just like, is this
good? Is this good?
You're taking videos? And now it feels like we have a
much clearer path to it. You're like, see, in seven
years, been there, done that. Well, what I'm, I'm going to
say, what I was going to say is it's this trade off of like, I
think the, the reason it's, it feels so casual for us to be
like we know is because of the, I don't know at this point,
(23:43):
hundreds of hundreds of thousands of data points at this
point that we've got on our athletes.
So it's it's challenging for college coaches.
Their Staffs are smaller. You know, they have a single
team over the course of an entire year, that team can
change year to year. So like it's not always just
about like the data saying you're wrong.
It's just establishing this likebaseline, you know?
(24:05):
I'm having a moment guys. Florida State has hit 2 two run
home runs in the top of the seven.
It is 9/6. Breaking news, Yes, breaking
news. Florida State making a comeback,
2 outs. I just see one out.
Sorry, I was like, oh Lord, I'm hearing you, but also this game
anyways, yes, yes, no, but I hear you like the sample size is
(24:27):
high up and what MLB had the benefit of obviously among many
monetary and and staff benefits is that they buy data from the
Dominican Republic. They buy data like they get all
of this data so that they start to get very clear about these,
you know, what they're making. And it has taken us years to get
(24:48):
the amount of data that we've been able to gather to be able
to make more, you know, concludelike conclusive statements about
this is what's successful. And that's going to be a moving
target, you know. And so one of the things that is
challenging for supple Staffs islike, it's why we always push
for in game data to be Oklahoma State just got the last, we're
(25:09):
not cheering for anyone, but we do work with Oklahoma State.
So we're like kind of cheering for that.
But speak for yourself. I'm.
Definitely. Cheering for Oklahoma State.
What are you talking about? They.
Was just in case anyone following this and.
Just that was an I statement, not on we this game.
You had an I statement on that one.
You asked the collective. I know, I know you listener on
the edge of your seat for this game that now has happened 2
(25:29):
weeks ago but. And it's probably stay there in
five days, yeah. Hilarious anyways, but I think
that this idea of like, you know, you do have to have it's
why we, you know feel so powerfully about what we do and
want to continue to provide for these schools is that if you are
just trying to take this data onyour own 1 you reach a problem,
(25:50):
as I was saying, like in game data is not available to
everyone right now. So there's this issue of like we
got to make that available so that there's more opportunities
for people to get in there and help put these into tools that
are digestible for these coaches.
So you run into that issue and then you start to get like if
you you only get your conferenceor something, or you only get
the games, it's like, well, that's not the best data set.
(26:12):
And then also you have to have someone on staff that's going to
take that and do something with it.
So that part is hard. And I think it can it can feel
scary and it probably is wrong if you're just like, I'm going
to take this random data set andI'm going to, you know, data
point and I'm going to apply it in this way and it feels like
you're going down the wrong track.
(26:32):
But I think that it's it's supposed to, when done right and
in a way that's digestible and you approach it as what is is
supposed to help the coach and the player.
It's just a narrow your options to provide more efficiency, not
to constantly challenge you in away that's detrimental for what
(26:53):
you're trying to do. Like that's just that's not what
we're talking about. And so I think if that's where
your mind goes, where I was thinking too, Laura, when you
were saying kind of the supple stuff and based on I think old
school, new school was similarlyon these like storied players
and these storied coaches. And it also was like data came
into the game around the time also that the generations
(27:14):
changed. And so the young players also
didn't respect the game and the way that the older players
thoughts was supposed to happen.Like the the the approach to the
game changed. You know, there's like people
wanting to do backflips and you know, I think of like the
Yankees used to, I don't know ifthey still do this, but you used
(27:35):
to have to like have a short haircut.
It's like now like there's like more.
I do too, yeah. Yeah, crazy.
There's more like individuality and personality and athletes,
they're coming out of a generation where they're way
more exposed to social media. Like it's it is different.
And so sometimes too, it's like there was data and now there's
(27:58):
backflips like the game has. Gone right?
Straw man argument, right? Well, you know, I also think
Krista, sometimes I think old school, new school is also like
how you communicate with people.Like I think there's this like
old school like or like tough and new schools like where I'm
like soft. And I actually think data is the
great equalizer in that because I think it's basically of like,
you know, there was a coach the other day that she said some of
(28:19):
the athletes were asking her like, are you basically like,
are you going to make decisions?Because this is what's happened
in the past. We're basically like on who to
throw and who not to throw basedon, like who you like the best.
First of all, even if that was the case, like who would say,
Yep, that's exactly. How I'm making cases?
You know why? Don't you just lay out the
numbers like, and why don't you like, why don't we say no, you
(28:41):
are not I, you are not an optionin this game because like this
athlete's tools look like this. She's more likely to get this
much. And you're like, like the
numbers, the data. It's not like I kind of click
with you a little more. I click with you a little less
than the other athlete. Like the numbers, hers are this
great equalizer in communicatingso matter of factly.
(29:02):
And I think that is why we've had this conversation.
Sometimes coaches have said like, oh, if only I could say
that to her. I'm like, you can't.
You're not disrespecting her. You're taking all of it out.
Like, listen, this is what we need.
You want to know this? Oh, this came up last week.
Someone struggled in game and their parent wrote the coach
because that happens sometimes. Like how can we best support
her? Because if she is not doing well
(29:25):
in games, then her confidence isgoing to get going to be low.
And I said you're the coach, youcan respond have you want.
But what you should say is it's very clear she needs to be able
to throw drop ball 60% of the time at -7 inches on both sides
of the plate. That was the plan from day one
for her. That is what I need her to be
able to do. It is clear as day.
This isn't because I don't like her anymore.
(29:47):
She's annoying me. She literally is throwing that
drop ball all over the place in the ground.
Like we this is the game plan based on the staff we have that
athlete's role is to do stop calling it confidence, stop
calling it someone likes you more, doesn't like you more like
hit the road with that stuff. It is like this is the game plan
(30:07):
and I think that numbers allow you to basically bridge culture
wise. I think the coaches who who do
the best job of connecting with their athletes, but at still run
like a freaking tight ship. Those coaches are so invested in
the data because they use that as a tool to not talk and fluff.
Right, because then like the, it's, you're not like
(30:29):
trustworthy. It is a more scary conversation
when it feels made-up. You're like, I mean, part of me
feels, but you're like, yeah. And you're like, as the coach,
you're like, part of me feels like what I'm saying is made-up
because it is a little bit, you know, and I think, I think back
to a, a conversation I had like 2 summers ago, you know, we, we
did Staffs a lot and we, we didn't have, even in travel ball
(30:52):
pitchers throw full games. But towards the end of the
season, they would throw more and more.
And this picture said to me like, I, I, you're not having me
throw full games like compared to other people.
Why? How can I throw full games?
And I said, you are not good enough to throw a full game when
the only tool we have is your fastball.
And so if you can't place your off speed or you lose your rise,
(31:15):
you can't throw the full game. So if you can maintain those
tools at this percent, then you can stay in because it's enough
variability. But if not, we know that even if
you aren't getting hit yet, if those people keep seeing just
that pitch, they're going to gethit.
And she was like, got it. There was no fluff.
I didn't feel nervous about the conversation.
It wasn't like, I don't know whyI'm taking you out.
Just doesn't feel. Good.
(31:36):
Actually, Sally, by the 5th inning you're annoying to me, so
I pull you. Right, yeah, or like I because
every time I wait and then you get a home run hit off of you
and you feel crappy and I'm like.
Right. You're like, you didn't have the
confidence that I could work through it like you're not.
Trying to send, you're not trying to send those kids out
there to fail. That's not the point.
The point is to maximize and leverage them for what they can
(31:59):
provide for as long as they can provide it.
And I think the I always, you know, I would see this to young
coaches and we talk about like this, you know, I think eye
opening experience of, you know,learning our systems and, and
respecting the data and understanding how it supports
your coaching decisions is like,it takes me a little bit of the
emotion out of it of like makingthat decision.
(32:19):
And I think it allows you then to deliver that message in a way
that best fits that athlete, right.
If you know that she needs to hear the hard truth, if you know
that she needs a little bit of amaybe softer delivery, it at
least takes like the complexity out of is this right?
Is this wrong? You know the decision's correct.
Now you need to deliver it thoughtfully to that athlete.
(32:41):
I've never seen a blend of old school, new school.
This came up earlier this week where I said to somebody this
early in the season, we want to map out our decisions on who's
throwing what game, how many times through a lineup.
If she's on her a game, she's 2 times through a lineup.
Likely if she's not, it's one this person is going to pair
with her and we want to we want to keep those based off of the
like categorization. Basically like we're going to go
(33:03):
after them with hard Velo. Then we're coming after with off
speed sync, like the category and like use that, use that and
plug the athlete in that sort offits that category.
That scenario early in the year.We really have to hold ourselves
to that because you don't want to overthrow your athletes too
much too soon, right? You can't make it till May, June
late in the year. You can shift into old school
(33:26):
mindset a little bit more because when you're in
postseason, when games are on the line, absolutely.
You know that winning ball gamesin postseason is about like
there's like Matt, like somebody's got to have a little
magic to them to win big ball games.
And you can kind of sense like something was different about
that kid and you lean on someonea little bit extra.
It's not that you abandon all that, you know, from the data,
(33:47):
but you sometimes will lean intothat a little more.
And I usually encourage coaches basically like try not to do
that yet. It's week. 1 Like we really are
trying to. It's not that we're trying to
give up ball games here early onbecause sometimes I can fight
coaches, you know, later in the season, but but we we have to
keep in mind like you can. Overdo.
It on a particular pitcher because you're like, that's who
(34:08):
I'm going after. So, you know, I do think like
you have to play that pendulum like anything else in the world
of like, where am I in the time of year?
What do I need to stick to? What do I need to hold myself
to? This kind of reminds me of
Stacey Newman's conversation at Pitched Off two years ago where
she said like she just held herself now that was her choice
in the way she was like super strict about it.
I held myself to like, I'm only letting that person in one time
(34:29):
for the lineup. It doesn't matter if they're
still doing well. That was my game plan.
That's how I'm sticking with it.And that's the approach she held
herself to that. And I do think, you know, like
there's wiggle room as things get later in the year, but you
got to, I think that's a good back and forth between this like
old school, new school. It doesn't always say things
that are against what you thought.
Like, I think a lot of times thecoaches had a sense, you know,
(34:51):
good coaches had a sense of things and then, you know, the
data helps them. But what I will say is it does
tell you when things aren't working.
And that I think is harder. Like it's so much easier to
skirt around. Like we've talked about this
before. Like I think of giving hitting
lessons and I like I could literally throw it to someone's
bat to make them hit it hard andthen be like, see, like it was
(35:14):
so much easier to say she's getting better with me.
Like, what's your problem when there was no proof of anything?
And it is it is what I will say.It can be very intimidating is
that you you know when it's not working and everyone knows when
it's not working. You can't hide under it and you
have to be able to have a conversation.
(35:34):
What I think coaches that kind of get to the other side of that
stress and can manage that is that you're not going into this
giving people one like 100% thiswill work because we'll know
when it's not working. Like that's just you literally
can't control all of the variables.
And the more you know which variables are feeding into that,
(35:55):
that's the conversation you have, which is sometimes it's
like, I don't know, like I have no idea.
We all of our evidence would suggest this should be working
and you should be going in this direction and it's not.
So right now we're in this kind of like, I don't know, together
and there has to be some vulnerability in that and we're
going to try to find it. But a lot of times it's just
variables outside of your control a little bit.
(36:15):
You know, we can't, we talked about the high school situation.
We certainly can't control all of it.
Then the college situation, I was thinking about to bring up
like sour or like, you know, sore wounds here, but I was
talking to driving a little bit our partnership and I was
talking about Puerto Vallardo and I was like, the surface
isn't great. Last year in the first pitch,
(36:35):
that's where Jordy Ball hurt herself.
And so it's like you can't control that.
It's not like like there's just things that you'll never fully
be able to control, but you can't hide.
And so you have to be able to bein the trenches with someone,
which I think for you is why youwere saying like if you can
deliver that in a very clear wayand you're in the trenches, you
can balance this tough verse. I'm in it with you better than
(36:57):
you ever could because it's like, I also am not hiding
behind this. Like, so we see it.
I said this was your goal and you hit it and then now you're
not having success. Then we both got to figure out
why that's happening and we're going to be in it together.
And so there's no hiding that I think can feel intimidating.
And it's much easier. There was a time where it was
(37:19):
easier to just be like, no idea,not coachable or, you know,
their confidence was down or they didn't hit their spot.
Even if you had no like real evidence that that was the
reason that got hit or, or whatever it is.
They, you know, they swung at bad pitches.
Like did they, you know, they, they took pitches they shouldn't
have. It's like all of that, those
(37:40):
generalizations, some of them still may hold of like, you
know, we're doing all this work with your swing and then you're
swinging that pitches crazy. Like let's talk about why that's
happening or whatever. Some of that might hold.
And some of it might be like, she didn't swing at that pitch
because we would never anticipate her to swing at that
pitch because she literally can't reach.
So like, you blaming it on that makes no sense.
Like, and so now you can't hide behind that statement.
(38:03):
If that part I think can be scary, I think it's less likely
that the scary thing is proving you wrong, although that does
happen a little bit. And more likely that the scary
thing is if I'm not right. Yeah, you're afraid of not
being. Right.
Yeah, it. Just exposes you I'm not right
or she's not getting better or you know the then I can't hide
(38:24):
because we have some sort of evidence of what's going on here
and we can't like say the thingsthat we say.
You know, I think of a hitter right now we have in our system
whose power is like through the roof.
I mean through the roof super elite and she's not doing great.
It's not translating right now. Her movement and there's and we
(38:45):
talked about a lot in the hitting department of like,
we're not sure why right now, you know, like we're not sure
what's not translating. What is getting held back?
Like what about our development systems?
And so yeah, I mean, the conversations right now in the
phase we are in right now with that family are a little bit
like, like, I know we should have all the answers, but right
now we don't. And we're just going to work
(39:06):
through it. We're going to try a few things.
Here's what we're going to try and here's what's happening.
And that conversation could be you have to just be OK with the
person being like, well, that sucks.
We're out of here. Like I think there's shared.
There's shared ownership in thatconversation too of like, you
know, if that's a, if that's instead of traditional, you
know, maybe lesson model where it's like, I don't know, this is
what I've always taught. Don't know, not not sure how to
(39:28):
help you. It's her, it's her fault.
It's your guy's fault. I think we're I think we're
like, you know, our families. What finds so much confident
confidence in US despite saying we don't know is that we're
going to work like hell. Try to figure it out right?
Because that well and. Also we don't know happens like.
Not that often. Not that often not.
(39:48):
That often, yeah, but. When you know, you're kind of
talking about this vulnerabilityand this exposing of coaches, I
think of like there's two concepts that I always and we,
we have new coaches that come onboard in the summertime for the,
you know, the Badami fellowship or we hire new coaches.
There's two concepts, I think that make them very wide eyed
and terrified. And the one is constraint LED
training because it is very different.
(40:09):
And it it initially feels like, OK, then what do I do?
Right until I understand what that looks like and means, what
do I do? And the second is the data.
It's like, OK, so I, I don't know how to coach anymore and
you're telling me you're going to measure shit and I'm going to
have to be accountable to that. Right.
Well, we've had times, we've hadtimes where someone has made a
(40:29):
statement and we've said like, based on what?
Yeah, I've said that like based on you're saying that.
Based on what? And then they pull up stuff and
I'm like, that's not true. You just you're like trying to
take an out against the kid. You're trying to blame the kid
on something that's literally not true.
Because when you look at the data, that's not real.
And so and it's happened in bothcases.
Sometimes they are improving more than we are giving them
(40:52):
credit for because we're trying to hold that kid to a comparison
against some kid that's not evenclose to her.
That, that, you know, it's like the kids came in throwing 48 and
now she's throwing 55 a year later, two years later.
And we're like, well, she's justreally not getting better
because she's during 55 and the person next to her is during 65
and you're like, wait a minute, what she's she's gone up 8 mph.
(41:15):
She's getting a lot better. So it's like sometimes we have
that and then sometimes we've had the case where the the
coaches have said like, wow, such and such looks amazing.
And I'll be like, does she? And then we look at it and we're
like, she hasn't gotten that much better.
You know, like, let's make sure that we're tying those
statements to the things that we're going after.
And it does hold you accountable.
So I think, you know, that part can be scary, which is why you
(41:38):
want it to be like a full team. You want to have a clear path of
where you're going. You want to do all of those
things as you're looking at it. So I liked it like at minute 8
actually, you were like talk about this anymore.
No, yeah, just like actually thepersonality who does that, I'm
not interested in. So like most things I'm not
interested in, I'm like, I'm just not interested in it.
But yes, it's a hurdle. I just feel like don't feel like
(42:02):
that it it, it just in no world,anyone, if you're like, I am
always right in anything that contradicts what I say.
Like that's a tough personality.And then all the examples that I
gave in any profession. It it doesn't matter in all
elements of life. You don't take in new
information at the risk of it challenging you.
Like godspeed you can insist on.That adapt, adapt or lose your
(42:25):
relevance like you have two choices, Adapt.
Doesn't that so any sense like Ithink we're the best.
Like yeah, I think I'm the best.And I also information comes to
me all the time. I think that I'm the best
because I am willing to see information and say like, oh,
OK, that is not what I anticipated or that is not what
I thought was happening. OK, let me dive into that.
(42:46):
Let me figure it out. Let me go here.
So I think like that is the how you, if you want to be great,
you know, that's how you have todo it in my mind.
So I'm just like not interested in someone that's like I'm great
because I say I'm great. And anything that challenges it,
it's like, that's wrong. Like, yeah, godspeed.
Cool. All right, Anna, anyway, 11 very
everyone has to give us something very quick because we
have 30 seconds. One thing you're looking forward
(43:07):
to about well to keep on Division One right now, it's not
to trust me. We've already been down this
road not to decry the other divisions because we love them.
But on the D1 road right now, what is one thing you're looking
forward to? I'm going to go first.
I'm looking forward to parody. There's like big pictures at
schools that they haven't been, even though the conference
realignments are like a little weird and maybe they're not
great, but from the parody standpoint, they're cool.
(43:29):
And so I'm excited to watch likeOU play a hard SEC schedule all
year. I'm excited for UCLA to be in
the Big 10. I'm excited for, you know,
Kennedy and Paul to be back in these schools.
So I think like, this is going to be like the most parody we've
seen in a long time. I'm really excited for that.
Mine is selfish. Oh, I was going to say mine is
(43:50):
selfish in that we just have opened up so many more
partnerships with colleges. So I'm just literally so excited
to like to have, you know, worked with so many more schools
this year versus last and so many more pictures and have seen
the like behind the scenes worldfor them since August.
And just like, you know, it's not just these small pockets of
schools, there's like schools all across the country.
(44:11):
That's just exciting. I just think like there's such a
different level of investment when every week you're working
with that and that's just largerthis year.
So that's what I'm most excited for.
Chris says parody, I say chaos. I'm a big fan of that because I
just like this. I just think there's so much
shake up right now with the conference realignments,
whatever the way the transfer portal is being leveraged,
changes in general with, you know, the college level.
(44:34):
I, I think the chaos is excitingbecause I, I, I, it's not that
I, I dislike OU, but I like shake UPS.
I like there to be, you know, everybody's fighting for a top
spot and it can be anybody. And so like in that chaos, I'm
always curious to see like who thrives.
I hope it's, you know, our college partners, obviously, but
I just you say parody, I say chaos.
(44:55):
And I can't wait to watch it andnot have to worry about winning
games with what we do. So within our college partners
and supporting them. Yeah.
All right. Well, until next week where
we'll be equally distracted probably watching games.
So like and subscribe the OGX podcast anywhere you listen to
your podcast. It helps us and we appreciate
it.
Back for another episode and I got supple on in the background
so it is a good day. I'm watching the Puerto Vallarta
1 and wishing that I was somewhere warm outside.
There's an ice rink here, so I. Don't know how you do that,
because imagine if I had ATV on here.
First of all, I would ignore thepodcast.
And then I would scream. Well, I might do that.
(00:26):
We don't know. OK, so we got the OSU Florida
State game on, which is a like awesome start to the season.
We're going to start with a bangwith a good match up.
Right now OSU is in the lead andI think we're in the top of the
7th, so almost over here. But yeah, Southwest season is
upon us. Last week we had some the two
(00:46):
games and so I, this is like my favorite time because it's good
games and they're literally fromlike 8:00 AM until 10:00 PM.
And so at any given time you canturn softball on.
Like conference matchups are awesome and competitive, but
it's like one game and then you can't watch softball anymore.
This is like we can binge, we can binge some softball, so.
(01:07):
On the flip side, I hate this time of year.
Not hate. That's too much.
I love this time of year. On the flip side, I hate the
tournament setup because when you're looking at how so much
the pitchers have to throw, I'm like, holy crap, six games in
three days, like this is travel ball, you know, and I'm like
from a standpoint of like from aconsulting side, we're looking
(01:28):
at like people don't have the Staffs for six games in three
days, you know, like that's the only I will say asterisk.
I love that. I'm excited about the time of
the year. I'm excited about it starting,
but the tournament set up, Damn,we need to like double our
Staffs for this, you know? Yeah, yeah.
That's cute that you think that's like travel ball.
Right, that would be travel ball.
(01:49):
Like on the best day that travelball ever existed.
Yeah, I would have two, Two. I would have loved that.
Yeah, 22 would have been great. That's funny.
Today we were going to talk about.
So part of this, I think got this is like terms that people
use kind of like flippantly, like they just like throw it
around as though they everyone knows what the definition is.
(02:11):
But then at the NFCA fireside chat, someone asked kind of a
specific question around this. And so I think the answer to
that and it's just like got kindof our our brains going.
So the question really is like this concept of old school
versus new school. Speaking of yelling, Oklahoma
State just hit a home run. So this is distracting.
I've turned it off. I was like, OK, the concept is
(02:37):
old school versus new school. So the person asking the
question was kind of like, how do we know like what is right
and what to keep up with and, and all of these concepts.
And so I think just first of all, like, I think my question
is like, is there an old school versus new school?
Like what does that mean when wesay that?
What are people, you know, trying to say?
(02:58):
I think for us, those concepts like don't even really make
sense of like what that means, which is kind of how you
answered it and the thing. But yeah, let me just kick it to
you first, Ash. But maybe with like how you
answered it then and then we cankind of go from there.
I said during the fireside chat at the NFCA convention that I
don't think of it as old school,new school.
I think of it as being data informed versus using.
(03:24):
Like the art of coaching and theway we operate at OGX is that we
use data to help us be, to like help form the art of coaching
for us or help influence the artof coaching.
Like you don't pin one against the other.
I think there was a podcast likemonths ago where I said, like my
dad always gets pissed off when he's watching the Phillies
(03:45):
because he's like some dude fromthe front office going to come
down with a piece of paper and put it on the manager's, you
know, like lap. And then he's just going to like
make a decision off of that paper.
Like where's your soul? You know, like something like
that, that that's not like, I think, I don't know.
I think we're moving away from thinking like that's what we're
doing here. We're taking in all information
we can. Sometimes that information is
(04:07):
subjective, but a large part of it has to be objective.
So this element of understanding, this is what a
picture does. Well, this is how I'm going to
leverage that. This is how many times through
the lineup she can go, this is who she should match up with.
It's still in this element. Like I just got off a consultant
call where it was like, OK, let's lay out all the things we
know about this picture. We first went to all the
(04:27):
objective, where is she velocitywise right now?
How are we feeling about her command?
What's her brake profile? How many changes speeds does she
have? Let's understand exactly who she
is, what our approach is with her when she's facing hitters.
And then you tell me how you're feeling about her right now.
Like yes, her tools say that shecan go 2 times through a lineup,
but I know like when she gets inthere, like tell me about her
(04:49):
personality. Tell me that like I think these
tools should she should start a game because of this.
And you're like, she just can't handle that.
Like she, her performance anxiety, we take in all the
information. So the reason why we don't see
it as old school, new school is because we're like, no, it's
info. And for a really long time in
the game, we didn't have the objective data.
(05:10):
So every decision was just made off of anything subjective you
were seeing. And so now I'm like, no, we can
enhance those decisions. We can have, we can be better
decision makers because we're not just using our own
subjective is what we think about her.
This is what we also have information.
We're going to combine the two of them.
So to us, it kind of seems kind of like silly.
(05:31):
Now, I will say that's one world.
We're like, I'm thinking of it like within a pitching coach,
for example, this idea of like old.
School, I want to, I just pause you for one second because I
think like it's so interesting because I think that is what
people mean, but that's not whatold school, new school means.
You're saying use of data versusnot use of data.
Like, so this idea, we just throw these terms around to like
(05:51):
say something's bad, except we're not being direct about
what we are because I think of like, if what we are saying is
it's bad to be new school, it's bad to take in new information
and apply it. If we were forget data out the
window. It's like at the time I played,
we changed from a white ball to a yellow ball.
We changed from a certain type of bat to composite bats.
(06:14):
Like there was a time period where we went from like a rocker
start to a Sprint start. And all of that was based off of
information that people were getting.
Like I, I videoed to start typesand you got off the base faster
in a Sprint type. And so then college programs
around it or suddenly at Auburn,they were doing the jump for
defense because they did some studies that that worked.
(06:34):
And so then people were like, oh, OK, we should do a little
hot preset because we can move more.
All of that is taking in new information and applying it,
which is why to me, this idea oflike old school versus new
school, it's like at what point?So we have to when people say
that and, and how we hear it. And what I felt like the person
was asking in that is that we have somehow determined that new
(06:56):
is fine unless it's data, unlessyou're being driven new data.
And then it's like, oh, old school versus new school.
We have that. And that to me is just confusing
because we've always as coaches,like that's part of what you
have done is strives have an edge, strived to have some
information that people don't have yet or to learn or to grow.
And so it's like we only startedusing that language when it got
(07:20):
to like data analytics and that type of approach.
Because there's this Chris, Chris, there's this mindset that
like there's like a data nerd pumping out and.
That's what you're saying because it's an idea that
somehow someone who's not a coach has come in and like
taught you how to coach. And it's like, that's not what's
happening. Like in the same way that like
(07:42):
the person who initially like wehad when we started doing Sprint
starts in college, the track coach came and taught us
literally like we had to track coach come to our practice and
learn how to do like sprinter starts.
So it's like, what is the difference?
Just because that's a coach, It's also an outside person has
nothing to do with softball, youknow, like that kind of stuff
happens all the time. So it's like, it's like a hatred
(08:03):
of nerds. It's basic right now, revenge of
the nerds I that it would be an example of of me saying like I
think this drop ball is this athletes not I think this drop
ball is this athletes best pitch.
She's got to try to lean into the identity and they're like
what? Like she's a curved screw and
like I watch her be able to likethrow her best pitcher curve
(08:24):
screw. And I'm like, I'm not saying the
curve screw are like bad, but ifyou want to maximize her and
maximize her potential. And so they're like the numbers
are driving what we're trying tolike mold her into.
That's the world we're comfortable living in at OGX all
the time. We give that one example of that
athlete who came as a senior in high school, was already
committed to a Big 10 school only through curve rise.
(08:46):
They were bullet pitches, which is fine, not overpowering in V
low spin rates weren't high. And her neutral fastball was
like -9 and was like, what the heck?
And she had never thrown it because it was called fastball.
And so we helped her like reallylean in that that summer or that
spring season in high school, lean into the identity of a drop
ball pitcher just by understanding that's my
fastball, that's what I should do.
(09:07):
And then she had an incredible freshman year in college.
And so we use that example all the time.
That was an example of like letting the data push something
that was like not based in old school.
Old school would have been like,well, she commands, she feels
better about curve. Screw she.
We don't throw fastballs. He's like, you're stuck on
(09:28):
something, you know. And so but the reality is it's
risk reward always. So we are like your highest
reward as if you are willing to lean into this approach.
So go for it. And there's no chance.
I mean no chance. I may not have a crystal ball,
but I would bet anything in the world that if she went into a
freshman year in college and threw that rise curve, that was
(09:51):
like a nothing pitch. It's just a compliment pitch.
There's no chance she would havehad this success that she had.
So I think that's like a good concrete example of like if you
had fully gone into some like old school approach and how, you
know, we took this like new information, this data to help
push. Now, I think there's a world
where like the art of coaching, when we explain this to her was
(10:12):
like, listen, I know this is tough, you know, like in the
delivery of it. Let's maybe just see you have
the high school season. Can we start with you just
trying to raise the percentage of time that you throw that
fastball from this to this. Let's ease into it.
Let's just focus on your you feeling good about commanding it
through the zone. Like we eased into it.
There's an art of coaching. Instead of just coming in,
(10:32):
giving her a piece of paper thatwas like you, you should throw
drop balls and walking out the door, right?
Like we know there are other human factors to this.
When someone looks at you like what you know, that you've got
to really try to get them there.That's all the arts of, I guess
you'd call it art of coaching. It's the art of delivering
information. Personal relational dynamics.
This is like what you have to. Coaching her, yeah.
(10:54):
It's just, I, I was thinking of an example and this is travel
ball, lower stakes, you get awaywith more things.
So I'm not saying like this is as simple as what colleges deal
with, but I had a pitcher, she was a backspin, crazy backspin,
super high spin rate, like crazybackspin.
She got committed to a Power 5 school because of that pitch and
(11:15):
she had a game where she was starting to get hit a little bit
and, and I went out and she was like, I just want to throw my
curve. I can, I can locate it.
I feel like comfortable, I can get out of this if you just let
me throw my curve. And I was like, you got it.
And she did. She got out of it throwing that.
Now the difference is this isn'tlike and now forever you should
throw your curve like because weknew like that pitch at the next
(11:35):
level is not that like the the data and all the evidence we now
have ability to access that pitch.
Being faced at the level you aregoing is not going to work like
that. But there's a level of like, OK,
let's see what if we can do it with that.
There are these moments where you might veer off the course
they're going and where you use the data for is like, we can't
(11:57):
do that long term because that'snot going to hold up forever.
And if you think that's evidencethat that's going to hold up
forever, like now we've gone toofar into the other category.
Yeah. But I think it's like, of
course, you still use the art ofcoaching.
I say this all the time. Like I think I feel so much more
freed up to be able to focus on the relationship aspect and the
(12:21):
competition conversation and reading when the, you know, and
travel ball. We had a lot of pitchers with
mental, you know, struggles and travel ball now and being able
to read that and focus my energyon that instead of just like,
well, I don't know why this pitch is getting hit.
Like I got to focus on why her curve is getting hit.
(12:41):
It's like, well, I knew like what happened when that pitch
got bad or why that pitch would get hit or the percentage is I
should be throwing things. And so I just think like it
actually frees it up. And that to me, the actual
conversation is you're using oldschool, new school as like code
to go after data. And it's like, let's just really
talk about what that means. Because when I, when we played
(13:03):
the very like my senior year, right view pro came out,
everyone used it. It was a video that could draw
lines on it like it was new and then we used it.
So it's like we used all those new tools, we had video, we
could do slow MO on our thing, we had coach's eye, we had all
these things and tools that we got access to, we kept using and
we only started really crossing this line when it felt like.
(13:27):
OK, so then basically what we'reactually talking about here,
let's just call this shit out because basically what we're
saying is that no one that we educate about how to analyze
data, understand data and use data is like, no, you know, like
they're like, Oh yeah, this is really helpful actually.
So in reality, anyone who's going to use the phrases old
school news school, they do not understand data.
(13:49):
They are overwhelmed by it. They don't have an understanding
of how to utilize it. And so instead they pin an
argument against it. It's literally.
It's just. It's threatening.
Absolutely. There is no one that fully gets
the power of how that information can inform you.
That's just like, you know, I'd rather not have that.
I would just rather not have that going into this game.
(14:09):
Like I have not met a single person who's who says that.
And so it's this idea of, yes, it threatens them.
They don't know how to use it. And so therefore it makes them
feel like they're less of a coach.
And so they're like, that's that's bad.
I have always known how to do it, you know, like that's the
world. And so like, if that's what
we're talking about, I'm like, I'm not that interested in this
conversation. You're actually can we change
(14:30):
top podcast? I hate, I hate.
That mindset, I was going to askLaura, obviously as someone who
like comes at it more from the delivering the data to coaches.
Now a little biased in the sensethat most of the time when
you're doing that, the coaches are coaches that wants that
information. So, yeah, but I think maybe like
(14:50):
examples of or times where we like our and we have had some
like that's great, Laura. And also like I am the coach on
the cake like on the floor. And so like here's the reality
of it or maybe not on our reality of like, but that's
great. And now we're presenting at this
(15:11):
conference to coaches though. And so like what is going to be
able to be digested? I think we have an example of
this of, you know, we're workinginternally on the hidden
presentation and that's a lot ofthe conversation.
It's like our audience is coaches and they have to be able
to do something with this information.
You're trying to enhance their capabilities, but what has that
experience been like for you? Are there any kind of like key
(15:33):
things you've seen in the in thefocus or things like that?
I was in the middle of a coughing attack in the beginning
of this, so I apologize so I knew.
This, yeah. Through this without that.
Well, I thought you just thoughtI was particularly funny.
No, that's all. I.
Thought that's. Beautiful.
OK, well if you need to pause, you just tell us.
The when you guys were kind of like, you know, talking about
this concept of old versus new, where my brain went was like, I
(15:54):
often see, I'll say maybe like, I'll say younger coaches, it's
not necessarily an age concept, but there, there sometimes is
this like coaching lineage whereplayers have played for a very
storied coach and that coach hada ton of success and they have
set a standard for, you know, something in the game, right,
whether it is wins or offense, defence, whatever.
(16:16):
And I often, you know, I, I get this sense sometimes from
coaches that come from these very sort of storied lineage
programs that they do feel in opposition that like, if I
don't, I don't follow what I've been taught by this human being
over here who had all this success.
And I somehow incorporate the data that I'm like violating
(16:37):
that, right? I think that's sometimes where
that old new school kind of like, I don't know, rears its
ugly head a little bit of like, I have to teach exactly how I
was taught. And the data threatens that.
Sometimes it does, it threatens sometimes the things that we
assume about the success of thatcoach.
It's just that's reality. It's just again, taking in more
(16:59):
information, you know, I will say, transitioning out of
primarily academic audiences andinto a coach audience.
I spent a lot of time teaching. So like breaking down, you know,
complex topics for students is not unfamiliar, but coaches are
a very different, I have to cough, sorry.
Coaches are just a very different audience.
(17:20):
They have like they're they're hungry for information.
And we've talked about how that can both like kind of harm and
hurt them a little bit, right, where you kind of go grab at all
of the things and they sometimesend up paralyzed when having new
information in front of them. And so I think, you know, we
spend so much time trying to make sure that any of our data,
(17:42):
the bio mechanics, any of our reporting is just it's
digestible, not just for the athlete, but also for the coach.
And in my own communication, something that I've really had
to evolve is like some of my favorite conversations are, tell
me what your issues are. Like, let's not talk about
perfect 'cause like we know we live in a dream world, right?
We created it of all of these great systems, this player
(18:02):
development concept. And the reality is that's not
accessible to everybody. And so where I really enjoy
those conversations with coachesis like they're asking questions
of like, I get it, what you guysdo is awesome.
How do I do that? And like, in what capacity do I
do that? And it's those coaches that I'm
like, yes, you're at least getting a foot in the door of
(18:25):
like wanting this information, even if your execution and how
you're utilizing it isn't quote UN quote perfect, you are at
least willing to let that information guide your coaching
decisions. And like, again, I go back to,
you know, I, I compare often evidence based medicine and
evidence based coaching. It's like, what is the research?
(18:46):
What is the data? Say, what is the coach?
The art of coaching, the art of being a clinician, the art of
being the doctor, whoever, whatever your your field is.
And then what does the athlete want?
What are their goals like? It's that information's supposed
to help coaches make decisions more efficiently, more
effectively, and have more confidence in those decisions.
I was just thinking like, it is kind of interesting when you
(19:07):
were first talking, Laura, I waslike, imagine if we all were
like, let's just keep parenting our children like the generation
before. Although there are people out
there who do that probably right, who are just like, as we
get more information on how the like, you know, create like
healthier children, not just physically, mentally,
emotionally, like generation shift until like do it better.
It's not because you're like, itwas done badly.
(19:27):
It was just sort of like we, we learn more information.
But there is, there is a group of people that in audience that
would argue like older was better, right?
The old school way was tougher, stronger, whatever.
I think there's some similarities.
And then I was thinking when my brain switched into like in
medicine, no one would be like, let's perform that surgery like
we did 25 years ago now. Like we know that like the
(19:49):
information allows us to improve.
Our. You know, methodology and our
ways, our the efficiency in which we do things.
So, yeah, it's no different. It really is no different.
I think there's always going to be some element of like when you
feel like the information is overwhelming.
If we didn't exist in the softball world, I think I get
this argument a little more datais in.
It's overwhelming. There's so much of it, you don't
(20:10):
know what to grab. We we pride ourselves.
Our like number one goal, as you're saying, Laura, is to take
data, explain it in a way that is like coach friendly, is to
not have this like we're data nerds.
Because one, we're not, but two,that's not helpful for coaches
to get them to understand, to get them to understand that you
don't have to have everything. You can just take a small piece
(20:31):
and make that work for yourself.Like we spend so much time, we
have so many avenues for coachesto be able to do that.
I think that's why I don't have a lot of empathy for coaches,
just like it's too much. I don't understand because that
would be true except there we put out so many resources to be
able like if you put in a littleeffort, you can actually learn a
(20:51):
lot, you know? So I think that's where that
like my stance and that really comes from.
I think a lot of times too, likeas you learn the data, I think
right now we're probably in thislike last year and I think it's
getting like, sure, I think we're at the part, this data is
new. And so it's probably at its most
(21:13):
counter to what we've always known.
Like it's most likely at this point because it's brand new and
people haven't sort of like shifted in this direction to be
like, oh, I thought that pitch was good and I didn't realize
how much it was getting hit or Ididn't realize she had another
option or I didn't realize that someone who could, you know, for
us, it's also about development so that someone that has this
(21:34):
drop can actually throw a rise. Like I didn't know those things.
And so I think we kind of in thepast two years have been at this
phase in the game where we're learning a lot of information
that's all brand new. And we're starting to hit the
hump where that's not everything's not brand new.
It's just kind of like an expansion at this point on the
the previous data. And I think a lot of times, like
(21:58):
it's not always going to go against what you think like
there is, right? Like if someone says like a
concept all use in hitting is that people will be like she
drops her hands. She does drop her hands.
You're right. But what I have learned from all
the day that we gathered is thatthe most efficient way for you
to attack that is not to do X drill that it's happening
(22:18):
because of this. And we know that because we've
been able to capture this data. And so now this thing is the art
of coaching. You're going to attack her,
dropping her hands in a way that's much more efficient
instead of like, let me try this, let me try this, let me do
this. And the path is going to be so
much more efficient to you. So it's like sometimes it's like
you're, I'm not saying you're wrong with that, but the way
(22:39):
that we all try to randomly attack things or like you want
to teach her an up pitch. And you've been, you guys have
been just like banging your heads against the wall to try to
get this up pitch to do something, something.
And now we have information to say like that kid doesn't have
access to that pitch or she might have access to it in a
different way than you thought about it.
There's like more efficient waysto go after it.
So I think it's this site like this feeling that it's going to
(23:02):
always tell you that you're wrong.
It's not going to always tell you that you're wrong.
It's just going to point you in this direction.
And sometimes that might challenge the way you would have
gotten there before. But I think if you really sit
and think with it, you're like, isn't that great?
And now I don't have to take this winding, insane road and
guess every day like, is this working?
(23:22):
I think about when we used to dothat, it's just like, is this
good? Is this good?
You're taking videos? And now it feels like we have a
much clearer path to it. You're like, see, in seven
years, been there, done that. Well, what I'm, I'm going to
say, what I was going to say is it's this trade off of like, I
think the, the reason it's, it feels so casual for us to be
like we know is because of the, I don't know at this point,
(23:43):
hundreds of hundreds of thousands of data points at this
point that we've got on our athletes.
So it's it's challenging for college coaches.
Their Staffs are smaller. You know, they have a single
team over the course of an entire year, that team can
change year to year. So like it's not always just
about like the data saying you're wrong.
It's just establishing this likebaseline, you know?
(24:05):
I'm having a moment guys. Florida State has hit 2 two run
home runs in the top of the seven.
It is 9/6. Breaking news, Yes, breaking
news. Florida State making a comeback,
2 outs. I just see one out.
Sorry, I was like, oh Lord, I'm hearing you, but also this game
anyways, yes, yes, no, but I hear you like the sample size is
(24:27):
high up and what MLB had the benefit of obviously among many
monetary and and staff benefits is that they buy data from the
Dominican Republic. They buy data like they get all
of this data so that they start to get very clear about these,
you know, what they're making. And it has taken us years to get
(24:48):
the amount of data that we've been able to gather to be able
to make more, you know, concludelike conclusive statements about
this is what's successful. And that's going to be a moving
target, you know. And so one of the things that is
challenging for supple Staffs islike, it's why we always push
for in game data to be Oklahoma State just got the last, we're
(25:09):
not cheering for anyone, but we do work with Oklahoma State.
So we're like kind of cheering for that.
But speak for yourself. I'm.
Definitely. Cheering for Oklahoma State.
What are you talking about? They.
Was just in case anyone following this and.
Just that was an I statement, not on we this game.
You had an I statement on that one.
You asked the collective. I know, I know you listener on
the edge of your seat for this game that now has happened 2
(25:29):
weeks ago but. And it's probably stay there in
five days, yeah. Hilarious anyways, but I think
that this idea of like, you know, you do have to have it's
why we, you know feel so powerfully about what we do and
want to continue to provide for these schools is that if you are
just trying to take this data onyour own 1 you reach a problem,
(25:50):
as I was saying, like in game data is not available to
everyone right now. So there's this issue of like we
got to make that available so that there's more opportunities
for people to get in there and help put these into tools that
are digestible for these coaches.
So you run into that issue and then you start to get like if
you you only get your conferenceor something, or you only get
the games, it's like, well, that's not the best data set.
(26:12):
And then also you have to have someone on staff that's going to
take that and do something with it.
So that part is hard. And I think it can it can feel
scary and it probably is wrong if you're just like, I'm going
to take this random data set andI'm going to, you know, data
point and I'm going to apply it in this way and it feels like
you're going down the wrong track.
(26:32):
But I think that it's it's supposed to, when done right and
in a way that's digestible and you approach it as what is is
supposed to help the coach and the player.
It's just a narrow your options to provide more efficiency, not
to constantly challenge you in away that's detrimental for what
(26:53):
you're trying to do. Like that's just that's not what
we're talking about. And so I think if that's where
your mind goes, where I was thinking too, Laura, when you
were saying kind of the supple stuff and based on I think old
school, new school was similarlyon these like storied players
and these storied coaches. And it also was like data came
into the game around the time also that the generations
(27:14):
changed. And so the young players also
didn't respect the game and the way that the older players
thoughts was supposed to happen.Like the the the approach to the
game changed. You know, there's like people
wanting to do backflips and you know, I think of like the
Yankees used to, I don't know ifthey still do this, but you used
(27:35):
to have to like have a short haircut.
It's like now like there's like more.
I do too, yeah. Yeah, crazy.
There's more like individuality and personality and athletes,
they're coming out of a generation where they're way
more exposed to social media. Like it's it is different.
And so sometimes too, it's like there was data and now there's
(27:58):
backflips like the game has. Gone right?
Straw man argument, right? Well, you know, I also think
Krista, sometimes I think old school, new school is also like
how you communicate with people.Like I think there's this like
old school like or like tough and new schools like where I'm
like soft. And I actually think data is the
great equalizer in that because I think it's basically of like,
you know, there was a coach the other day that she said some of
(28:19):
the athletes were asking her like, are you basically like,
are you going to make decisions?Because this is what's happened
in the past. We're basically like on who to
throw and who not to throw basedon, like who you like the best.
First of all, even if that was the case, like who would say,
Yep, that's exactly. How I'm making cases?
You know why? Don't you just lay out the
numbers like, and why don't you like, why don't we say no, you
(28:41):
are not I, you are not an optionin this game because like this
athlete's tools look like this. She's more likely to get this
much. And you're like, like the
numbers, the data. It's not like I kind of click
with you a little more. I click with you a little less
than the other athlete. Like the numbers, hers are this
great equalizer in communicatingso matter of factly.
(29:02):
And I think that is why we've had this conversation.
Sometimes coaches have said like, oh, if only I could say
that to her. I'm like, you can't.
You're not disrespecting her. You're taking all of it out.
Like, listen, this is what we need.
You want to know this? Oh, this came up last week.
Someone struggled in game and their parent wrote the coach
because that happens sometimes. Like how can we best support
her? Because if she is not doing well
(29:25):
in games, then her confidence isgoing to get going to be low.
And I said you're the coach, youcan respond have you want.
But what you should say is it's very clear she needs to be able
to throw drop ball 60% of the time at -7 inches on both sides
of the plate. That was the plan from day one
for her. That is what I need her to be
able to do. It is clear as day.
This isn't because I don't like her anymore.
(29:47):
She's annoying me. She literally is throwing that
drop ball all over the place in the ground.
Like we this is the game plan based on the staff we have that
athlete's role is to do stop calling it confidence, stop
calling it someone likes you more, doesn't like you more like
hit the road with that stuff. It is like this is the game plan
(30:07):
and I think that numbers allow you to basically bridge culture
wise. I think the coaches who who do
the best job of connecting with their athletes, but at still run
like a freaking tight ship. Those coaches are so invested in
the data because they use that as a tool to not talk and fluff.
Right, because then like the, it's, you're not like
(30:29):
trustworthy. It is a more scary conversation
when it feels made-up. You're like, I mean, part of me
feels, but you're like, yeah. And you're like, as the coach,
you're like, part of me feels like what I'm saying is made-up
because it is a little bit, you know, and I think, I think back
to a, a conversation I had like 2 summers ago, you know, we, we
did Staffs a lot and we, we didn't have, even in travel ball
(30:52):
pitchers throw full games. But towards the end of the
season, they would throw more and more.
And this picture said to me like, I, I, you're not having me
throw full games like compared to other people.
Why? How can I throw full games?
And I said, you are not good enough to throw a full game when
the only tool we have is your fastball.
And so if you can't place your off speed or you lose your rise,
(31:15):
you can't throw the full game. So if you can maintain those
tools at this percent, then you can stay in because it's enough
variability. But if not, we know that even if
you aren't getting hit yet, if those people keep seeing just
that pitch, they're going to gethit.
And she was like, got it. There was no fluff.
I didn't feel nervous about the conversation.
It wasn't like, I don't know whyI'm taking you out.
Just doesn't feel. Good.
(31:36):
Actually, Sally, by the 5th inning you're annoying to me, so
I pull you. Right, yeah, or like I because
every time I wait and then you get a home run hit off of you
and you feel crappy and I'm like.
Right. You're like, you didn't have the
confidence that I could work through it like you're not.
Trying to send, you're not trying to send those kids out
there to fail. That's not the point.
The point is to maximize and leverage them for what they can
(31:59):
provide for as long as they can provide it.
And I think the I always, you know, I would see this to young
coaches and we talk about like this, you know, I think eye
opening experience of, you know,learning our systems and, and
respecting the data and understanding how it supports
your coaching decisions is like,it takes me a little bit of the
emotion out of it of like makingthat decision.
(32:19):
And I think it allows you then to deliver that message in a way
that best fits that athlete, right.
If you know that she needs to hear the hard truth, if you know
that she needs a little bit of amaybe softer delivery, it at
least takes like the complexity out of is this right?
Is this wrong? You know the decision's correct.
Now you need to deliver it thoughtfully to that athlete.
(32:41):
I've never seen a blend of old school, new school.
This came up earlier this week where I said to somebody this
early in the season, we want to map out our decisions on who's
throwing what game, how many times through a lineup.
If she's on her a game, she's 2 times through a lineup.
Likely if she's not, it's one this person is going to pair
with her and we want to we want to keep those based off of the
like categorization. Basically like we're going to go
(33:03):
after them with hard Velo. Then we're coming after with off
speed sync, like the category and like use that, use that and
plug the athlete in that sort offits that category.
That scenario early in the year.We really have to hold ourselves
to that because you don't want to overthrow your athletes too
much too soon, right? You can't make it till May, June
late in the year. You can shift into old school
(33:26):
mindset a little bit more because when you're in
postseason, when games are on the line, absolutely.
You know that winning ball gamesin postseason is about like
there's like Matt, like somebody's got to have a little
magic to them to win big ball games.
And you can kind of sense like something was different about
that kid and you lean on someonea little bit extra.
It's not that you abandon all that, you know, from the data,
(33:47):
but you sometimes will lean intothat a little more.
And I usually encourage coaches basically like try not to do
that yet. It's week. 1 Like we really are
trying to. It's not that we're trying to
give up ball games here early onbecause sometimes I can fight
coaches, you know, later in the season, but but we we have to
keep in mind like you can. Overdo.
It on a particular pitcher because you're like, that's who
(34:08):
I'm going after. So, you know, I do think like
you have to play that pendulum like anything else in the world
of like, where am I in the time of year?
What do I need to stick to? What do I need to hold myself
to? This kind of reminds me of
Stacey Newman's conversation at Pitched Off two years ago where
she said like she just held herself now that was her choice
in the way she was like super strict about it.
I held myself to like, I'm only letting that person in one time
(34:29):
for the lineup. It doesn't matter if they're
still doing well. That was my game plan.
That's how I'm sticking with it.And that's the approach she held
herself to that. And I do think, you know, like
there's wiggle room as things get later in the year, but you
got to, I think that's a good back and forth between this like
old school, new school. It doesn't always say things
that are against what you thought.
Like, I think a lot of times thecoaches had a sense, you know,
(34:51):
good coaches had a sense of things and then, you know, the
data helps them. But what I will say is it does
tell you when things aren't working.
And that I think is harder. Like it's so much easier to
skirt around. Like we've talked about this
before. Like I think of giving hitting
lessons and I like I could literally throw it to someone's
bat to make them hit it hard andthen be like, see, like it was
(35:14):
so much easier to say she's getting better with me.
Like, what's your problem when there was no proof of anything?
And it is it is what I will say.It can be very intimidating is
that you you know when it's not working and everyone knows when
it's not working. You can't hide under it and you
have to be able to have a conversation.
(35:34):
What I think coaches that kind of get to the other side of that
stress and can manage that is that you're not going into this
giving people one like 100% thiswill work because we'll know
when it's not working. Like that's just you literally
can't control all of the variables.
And the more you know which variables are feeding into that,
(35:55):
that's the conversation you have, which is sometimes it's
like, I don't know, like I have no idea.
We all of our evidence would suggest this should be working
and you should be going in this direction and it's not.
So right now we're in this kind of like, I don't know, together
and there has to be some vulnerability in that and we're
going to try to find it. But a lot of times it's just
variables outside of your control a little bit.
(36:15):
You know, we can't, we talked about the high school situation.
We certainly can't control all of it.
Then the college situation, I was thinking about to bring up
like sour or like, you know, sore wounds here, but I was
talking to driving a little bit our partnership and I was
talking about Puerto Vallardo and I was like, the surface
isn't great. Last year in the first pitch,
(36:35):
that's where Jordy Ball hurt herself.
And so it's like you can't control that.
It's not like like there's just things that you'll never fully
be able to control, but you can't hide.
And so you have to be able to bein the trenches with someone,
which I think for you is why youwere saying like if you can
deliver that in a very clear wayand you're in the trenches, you
can balance this tough verse. I'm in it with you better than
(36:57):
you ever could because it's like, I also am not hiding
behind this. Like, so we see it.
I said this was your goal and you hit it and then now you're
not having success. Then we both got to figure out
why that's happening and we're going to be in it together.
And so there's no hiding that I think can feel intimidating.
And it's much easier. There was a time where it was
(37:19):
easier to just be like, no idea,not coachable or, you know,
their confidence was down or they didn't hit their spot.
Even if you had no like real evidence that that was the
reason that got hit or, or whatever it is.
They, you know, they swung at bad pitches.
Like did they, you know, they, they took pitches they shouldn't
have. It's like all of that, those
(37:40):
generalizations, some of them still may hold of like, you
know, we're doing all this work with your swing and then you're
swinging that pitches crazy. Like let's talk about why that's
happening or whatever. Some of that might hold.
And some of it might be like, she didn't swing at that pitch
because we would never anticipate her to swing at that
pitch because she literally can't reach.
So like, you blaming it on that makes no sense.
Like, and so now you can't hide behind that statement.
(38:03):
If that part I think can be scary, I think it's less likely
that the scary thing is proving you wrong, although that does
happen a little bit. And more likely that the scary
thing is if I'm not right. Yeah, you're afraid of not
being. Right.
Yeah, it. Just exposes you I'm not right
or she's not getting better or you know the then I can't hide
(38:24):
because we have some sort of evidence of what's going on here
and we can't like say the thingsthat we say.
You know, I think of a hitter right now we have in our system
whose power is like through the roof.
I mean through the roof super elite and she's not doing great.
It's not translating right now. Her movement and there's and we
(38:45):
talked about a lot in the hitting department of like,
we're not sure why right now, you know, like we're not sure
what's not translating. What is getting held back?
Like what about our development systems?
And so yeah, I mean, the conversations right now in the
phase we are in right now with that family are a little bit
like, like, I know we should have all the answers, but right
now we don't. And we're just going to work
(39:06):
through it. We're going to try a few things.
Here's what we're going to try and here's what's happening.
And that conversation could be you have to just be OK with the
person being like, well, that sucks.
We're out of here. Like I think there's shared.
There's shared ownership in thatconversation too of like, you
know, if that's a, if that's instead of traditional, you
know, maybe lesson model where it's like, I don't know, this is
what I've always taught. Don't know, not not sure how to
(39:28):
help you. It's her, it's her fault.
It's your guy's fault. I think we're I think we're
like, you know, our families. What finds so much confident
confidence in US despite saying we don't know is that we're
going to work like hell. Try to figure it out right?
Because that well and. Also we don't know happens like.
Not that often. Not that often not.
(39:48):
That often, yeah, but. When you know, you're kind of
talking about this vulnerabilityand this exposing of coaches, I
think of like there's two concepts that I always and we,
we have new coaches that come onboard in the summertime for the,
you know, the Badami fellowship or we hire new coaches.
There's two concepts, I think that make them very wide eyed
and terrified. And the one is constraint LED
training because it is very different.
(40:09):
And it it initially feels like, OK, then what do I do?
Right until I understand what that looks like and means, what
do I do? And the second is the data.
It's like, OK, so I, I don't know how to coach anymore and
you're telling me you're going to measure shit and I'm going to
have to be accountable to that. Right.
Well, we've had times, we've hadtimes where someone has made a
(40:29):
statement and we've said like, based on what?
Yeah, I've said that like based on you're saying that.
Based on what? And then they pull up stuff and
I'm like, that's not true. You just you're like trying to
take an out against the kid. You're trying to blame the kid
on something that's literally not true.
Because when you look at the data, that's not real.
And so and it's happened in bothcases.
Sometimes they are improving more than we are giving them
(40:52):
credit for because we're trying to hold that kid to a comparison
against some kid that's not evenclose to her.
That, that, you know, it's like the kids came in throwing 48 and
now she's throwing 55 a year later, two years later.
And we're like, well, she's justreally not getting better
because she's during 55 and the person next to her is during 65
and you're like, wait a minute, what she's she's gone up 8 mph.
(41:15):
She's getting a lot better. So it's like sometimes we have
that and then sometimes we've had the case where the the
coaches have said like, wow, such and such looks amazing.
And I'll be like, does she? And then we look at it and we're
like, she hasn't gotten that much better.
You know, like, let's make sure that we're tying those
statements to the things that we're going after.
And it does hold you accountable.
So I think, you know, that part can be scary, which is why you
(41:38):
want it to be like a full team. You want to have a clear path of
where you're going. You want to do all of those
things as you're looking at it. So I liked it like at minute 8
actually, you were like talk about this anymore.
No, yeah, just like actually thepersonality who does that, I'm
not interested in. So like most things I'm not
interested in, I'm like, I'm just not interested in it.
But yes, it's a hurdle. I just feel like don't feel like
(42:02):
that it it, it just in no world,anyone, if you're like, I am
always right in anything that contradicts what I say.
Like that's a tough personality.And then all the examples that I
gave in any profession. It it doesn't matter in all
elements of life. You don't take in new
information at the risk of it challenging you.
Like godspeed you can insist on.That adapt, adapt or lose your
(42:25):
relevance like you have two choices, Adapt.
Doesn't that so any sense like Ithink we're the best.
Like yeah, I think I'm the best.And I also information comes to
me all the time. I think that I'm the best
because I am willing to see information and say like, oh,
OK, that is not what I anticipated or that is not what
I thought was happening. OK, let me dive into that.
(42:46):
Let me figure it out. Let me go here.
So I think like that is the how you, if you want to be great,
you know, that's how you have todo it in my mind.
So I'm just like not interested in someone that's like I'm great
because I say I'm great. And anything that challenges it,
it's like, that's wrong. Like, yeah, godspeed.
Cool. All right, Anna, anyway, 11 very
everyone has to give us something very quick because we
have 30 seconds. One thing you're looking forward
(43:07):
to about well to keep on Division One right now, it's not
to trust me. We've already been down this
road not to decry the other divisions because we love them.
But on the D1 road right now, what is one thing you're looking
forward to? I'm going to go first.
I'm looking forward to parody. There's like big pictures at
schools that they haven't been, even though the conference
realignments are like a little weird and maybe they're not
great, but from the parody standpoint, they're cool.
(43:29):
And so I'm excited to watch likeOU play a hard SEC schedule all
year. I'm excited for UCLA to be in
the Big 10. I'm excited for, you know,
Kennedy and Paul to be back in these schools.
So I think like, this is going to be like the most parody we've
seen in a long time. I'm really excited for that.
Mine is selfish. Oh, I was going to say mine is
(43:50):
selfish in that we just have opened up so many more
partnerships with colleges. So I'm just literally so excited
to like to have, you know, worked with so many more schools
this year versus last and so many more pictures and have seen
the like behind the scenes worldfor them since August.
And just like, you know, it's not just these small pockets of
schools, there's like schools all across the country.
(44:11):
That's just exciting. I just think like there's such a
different level of investment when every week you're working
with that and that's just largerthis year.
So that's what I'm most excited for.
Chris says parody, I say chaos. I'm a big fan of that because I
just like this. I just think there's so much
shake up right now with the conference realignments,
whatever the way the transfer portal is being leveraged,
changes in general with, you know, the college level.
(44:34):
I, I think the chaos is excitingbecause I, I, I, it's not that
I, I dislike OU, but I like shake UPS.
I like there to be, you know, everybody's fighting for a top
spot and it can be anybody. And so like in that chaos, I'm
always curious to see like who thrives.
I hope it's, you know, our college partners, obviously, but
I just you say parody, I say chaos.
(44:55):
And I can't wait to watch it andnot have to worry about winning
games with what we do. So within our college partners
and supporting them. Yeah.
All right. Well, until next week where
we'll be equally distracted probably watching games.
So like and subscribe the OGX podcast anywhere you listen to
your podcast. It helps us and we appreciate
it.
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