May 12, 2025 • 43 mins
In this episode of the OGX Podcast, we explore the critical role movement variability plays in athlete development, injury prevention, and long-term performance. Krista Stoker and the OGX team break down why rigid mechanics can hinder progress—especially for young athletes navigating puberty—and how variability in pitching and hitting fosters better adaptability and resilience.
We discuss the relationship between stability and variability, what traditional drills often miss, and how to design training environments that promote exploration, problem-solving, and long-term skill acquisition. Whether you're a softball coach, strength trainer, or athlete, this episode is a must-listen.
Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Movement Variability
01:12 Understanding Movement Variability in Training
03:45 The Importance of Variability for Injury Resilience
07:29 Rigid Mechanics vs. Natural Variability
11:42 Stability and Variability in Young Athletes
16:51 Creating Movement Solutions through Variability
26:17 Navigating Puberty and Athletic Development
29:32 The Flaws of Traditional Drills
31:54 Creating Supportive Environments for Young Athletes
35:32 Understanding Player Development Principles
39:19 Stability vs. Variability in Training
42:38 Implications Across Age Groups
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
We are back for another episode and at the time of year where
we're all distracted by watchingcell phone in the background.
So, if you see our heads on the swivel, we are checking in on
conference play right now has begun, is that I was gonna say,
what time of year is that February through June?
Yes, seriously, the little in the Middle where we maybe aren't
(00:25):
quite as distracted but yeah, back into back into accident.
I've got to get my like TV set up so I can watch all the games.
But I do like the time of year where the game start at like 8
a.m. I sat down I was like yeah it's
awesome. Now the SEC has like 42 teams in
it and the tournament starts on Tuesday or whatever.
(00:45):
So yeah, that's fun. But yeah, it's good time of year
but that's not what we're gonna talk about.
Today, we are gonna talk about aconcept that Laura is actually
wrote A Blog. And that's going to be released
soon. This concept of movement
variability, and kind of what we're going for as far as
movement, when we're training skill, acquisition whether
(01:06):
you're training pitching hitting.
So what I'm thinking to you to maybe, give not all the details,
they can, everyone can go read the blog.
Do you want all the details? But give just a little
overarching summary of kind of the Core Concepts and then we
can kind of kick off from there of how you know our training
might inform you informed by that they're different things
(01:27):
that we see. Yeah.
This is a you know, this is the topic I'll say is it doesn't get
a ton of attention in research. I think it's to quantify.
We talked about like, you know, how variable someone's movement
is meaning the, you know, degrees of which we can measure
our our pretty small. And so deciding what, you know
(01:47):
what variations in a movement pattern are appropriate and
healthy is tricky. But this is a topic that I
think, you know, both from a training standpoint.
And also when we talk about comparing biomechanics and
patterns and swings and pitchingpatterns over time is something
that we need to talk about. You know, we've we've sort of
and this is not even specific tosoftball.
(02:07):
This is this is really rooted and just our perceptions of what
we understood about the brain, and the way in which we sort of,
you know, produce our movement. And so for a very, very long
time, the presumption was just kind of like we just we get
experience and exposure to a movement and not even something
Sports specific, but just in ourenvironment and our brains like,
(02:29):
all right, when we just kind of Tuck that back like a cassette
tape that I can pull out and putin when I need it and for a long
time that's kind of that's how. Be coached as where it's where
this concept of, like, ideal mechanics and coaching to some
level of, you know, a very rigidmindset of like this is, these
are the patterns you have to have.
(02:49):
That's where that came from, because the presumption then was
like if you pick the wrong cassette tape, that's your
fault, right. And so, a lot of training
revolved around essentially putting in the right cassette
tape, right? The right movement pattern and
the right, you know, ideal movement pattern.
And honestly it really wasn't until it really wasn't until the
60s until we had some texts thatwas translated out of Russian to
(03:10):
tell us that like there's a lot of variability in the way humans
move. It was a pretty novel concept at
the time and I'm saying like it was on the 1960s but the concept
that like Elite athletes, Elite performers, people who do
repetitive movements, don't actually repeat their movements,
the same every time and that's pretty critical.
I think in our sport you know hitting introduces sort of
(03:33):
natural variability because you've got a bald at moves
Pitching does not pitching his so long.
Been rooted in this like it is you have this pattern.
This is what you have to repeat.And if you don't repeat that
pattern, you've somehow made an error.
It's somehow wrong. And we sort of said that like
very rigid repeatable mechanics are like the goal and I'll say,
like between the, you know, thisthis sort of collision of
(03:54):
biomechanics and motor control. It doesn't operate like that.
And we've, we've got research inareas of the body of running and
heart rate variability and places, where our body actually
the human body actually likes very ability.
We need variability when we're at either opposite ends of the
spectrum with something is too. Invariant we don't we don't
fluctuate. We don't change our blood
pressure when we need or something is way too way too
(04:18):
variable, you're going to use a rythmia.
I just keeping with a hard example, those extremes are bad,
right? So we are always trying to live
in some bandwidth where we are, you know maybe little less
invariant more variable, it's this, it's a Continuum it's not
this you have your patterns and this is what you have to do
every time. The concept that I think really
(04:38):
applies and I think this is particular to pitchers in our
world is the kind of this this injury resilience that develops
because of movement variability.So when we talk about, you know,
how do we keep pitchers healthy?How to keep athletes healthy,
those very rigid mechanics that are just the same thing over and
over again. Particularly if they're
(04:58):
inefficient, you know, even witha lead athletes with great
compensations, they can have some, you know, risk of injury
is that we want the body to keepsolving problems, that's how it
builds its resilience. And so the the applications not
just a training, obviously it ties so much into, you know, our
long Bosch shorts plyos and the way we introduced that problem
(05:19):
solving but it is really a to me, it's the most important
aspect of it beside the performance implications is
helping your body. Just to be resilient to solve
these problems. I always talk about strength and
conditioning is solving movementproblems, just at a lower
intensity than what we do in thesport.
And Those types of problems are really critical.
It's not just strength and conditioning equals.
(05:40):
Reducing injury risk. It's the concept that the body
is put through these problems tosolve ranges of motion speeds of
movement, that really let it say.
Okay, I'm I'm fatigued so I can't tap into my normal
strategy or my typical strategy and so I have a solution or set
of solutions that I can adjust and I think it's we see this I
(06:01):
think across the board over you know the course of the season
over the course of a training Year, we're patterns change,
just what we do humans adapt, wewe change what we do in
variation and so to assume that that doesn't happen, you know,
in sport it misses a opportunity.
I think to develop this resilience to repetitive motion
(06:22):
and pitching is, you know, definitely a great example of
that and there's kind of two piece is, there's the problem
solving, there's the sort of motor control and motor
planning, aspect of it of being able to adapt and adjust to, you
know, pressure, we're now in conference.
Tournaments to whether to fatigue but there's also this
concept of like if if the goal is just to repeat something over
(06:43):
and over again, you are going toplace stress on tissues.
That at a certain point, they'renot going to be able to respond
and so that variability of movement kind of shares the
stress a little bit across the body and it helps in that
problem solving to figure out what are these solutions that an
athlete has that not only allowsthem to, you know, have
(07:06):
performance and adapt and on thefly.
But also spreads that stress around and allows, those tissues
of those areas of some hot spotsand pictures to, you know, have
an opportunity to remodel to come back to, you know, not be
sort of worn down by this same pattern over and over and over
again. That's kind of General Primus
(07:27):
is. It's not about, you know, we
pick the cassette tape and it's a one-way conversation.
Variability is a really, really important byproduct.
It's a healthy byproduct. Even movement, and I think, you
know, in in my very biased opinion, softball pitching is
just, it's one of the best examples.
It's, it's so complicated, it's high intensity, its high
velocity. I say with a ton of bias as a
(07:48):
former pitcher but it just seemslike such a great application of
this variability concept to movements that are that quick
because oftentimes it had been applied to like running and
cycling and he's really kind of like low energy State,
repetitive movements. And I think the application up
the chain is something a little higher velocity is really,
really important because you know the energy that pitchers
(08:11):
produce the positions, they put their bodies in the volume that
they throw. You know, injured resilience is
in my opinion. It's one of the biggest things
you have to chase is a picture right now. yeah, I was gonna say
when I think about this concept,one of the like negative,
Descriptions. That will also will often give
(08:32):
headers when they come in for their assessment, is that
they're very rigid. And we've talked about that
concept before. And so, some of that concept
doesn't, is not really exactly what we're applying here.
Which is, there's a concept of rigidity that we talk about
where when an athlete does have a lot of variation because they
are struggling with stability, so young athletes that they get
(08:53):
rigid in. Their limbs, you know, and
hitting the kind of lock out their upper body, a lot of times
in different ways and pitching all have a very stiff arm
action. And so, that's not exactly what
we're talking about here. Because that rigidity actually
comes from a level of variability, that is too much,
because that athlete is lacking stability.
So, level of sort of like core variability, if you will, but,
(09:17):
There are older athletes. We have who.
That's not what we're saying? When we're talking about
rigidity and really often in hitting what it looks like is an
athlete who has only trained in front toss.
So a very sort of like one specific skill that they've
done, that is repeated over and over and over with out, very
(09:38):
much variability because of the sort of context to it.
And what you see from that athlete, is that then they've
learned this sort of one movement solution that they
cannot tap into a level of variability.
That actually, is needed in the skill to be successful hitting.
I think is a little simpler to like grasp this concept,
because, of course, you have to be variable, like, almost the
(10:00):
idea that you don't that you aren't variable, although
training sometimes still ignoresthat.
But like, you have to be variable because you're
adjusting to timing, Heights, pitch locations, like, that's in
some ways obvious, right? But this idea that we can look
at one video of someone doing front Saws, and say, we want you
to literally look to the minute exactly the same every time, and
(10:22):
that's what we're going for. Is a is not a great concept.
For all the reasons that we knowthe body needs to adjust what
happens. If literally, you step in a box
that has mud in it and you have your that rigid that's when
we're talking about one that might affect performance if you
can't sort of tap into variability, to that is where
some injuries come from all the way down to, to different.
(10:42):
Reasons for that. And so I, that's a phrase, we
use a lot in hitting is like that, you know, this athletes.
Sometimes they look powerful, they have high exit velocity or
like, oh, this kid might be ableto swing it.
And when you watch front toss tolike, because this we've trained
this one thing and we've we've trained the skill to be
repetitive and when we, especially when we train it that
(11:04):
way, and they didn't get there from sort of like learning it,
they get really stuck in that. And that's something that we
it's actually quite hard to break and it just requires some
like time and exposure to different movements to sort of,
like, getting them outside of that one path that you have.
But I don't know, maybe I shouldget to you because I do think
the concepts are it's less obvious, that you need some
(11:26):
variability in Pigeon. I think there's people think
you're just trying to repeat that same thing over and over.
And if you and and we're not talking about like on one, your
glove is in the air and on this second, you love is not in the
air, like we're not talking about that level variable but
maybe just walk through kind of how you see.
This applying pitching. Yeah, I think the biggest
concept here is to understand the relationship and you touched
(11:48):
on this a little bit already Krista but the relationship
between stability and variability, right?
If you don't have a Baseline anda foundation of stability,
meaning literally stability in the body, the ability to
stabilize through the center of the body, the ability to
stabilize on a single leg. I mean like these are the types
of you have to have a baseline of stability in order to tap
(12:09):
into variability and so that is so important to understand.
So this is why all hitting and pitching lessons for younger
kids. I shouldn't say all, but most of
them are just brutal because They're so unstable.
They're not supposed to be stable yet their bodies are just
(12:31):
they just keep growing. They're getting taller, their
weight is changing. It's just a constant.
There's so much variability. They don't have stability yet.
They don't have that opportunity.
And so then we're asking them todo tasks that require
variability and their variable. So, what variable?
And so what happens Krista is what you're referring to, right?
So then we just tried to like force the tasks to be stable to
(12:54):
get some result and then that ends up being a major problem.
So that's how we see in younger kids.
And then, for our older athletes, you know, I think it's
interesting like we see that we've talked about this in the
podcast, many times, the more games you play, the more
fatigued, you get, the more yourstability goes down.
And so, like command is a numberone thing to really suffer.
(13:19):
Essentially, when you're feeling, and that is a
representation of variability. So no one when someone is having
Trouble like oh, it's too many walls.
They too many hit by pitches. Whatever.
Too many free passes. It's not that they need to work
on like stability more, you know, because it's not like, oh,
they threw one ball and now we're like, nope.
(13:41):
Let's get it back. It's that when they threw a
ball, they they couldn't make anadjustment, right?
And so that is so different. So, at the base of why they
can't tap in the variability is likely a lack of stability in
the body again whether it's you know, these foundational
movements of just like core stability, single leg,
stability, Etc, but variability,typically comes from its our
(14:06):
action and in pitching and it isspecifically very in the
relationship between arm and trunk.
So we want ideally the trunk to be very stable and not make the
motion look different every single time, it's just too much
to navigate. And then you're only really
(14:26):
creating variability based on things of where your body is
that day, meaning your center ofmass at deceleration.
What the Umpire zone is potentially, if the ground is
softer versus harder, it's Turf,it's sand, it's dirt, that's
pretty compact, whatever that might be.
And those are the external variables that you're trying to
navigate. And then as the body starts to,
(14:49):
now be a little bit shaky. Now you have more like
instability within the body, maybe it's just because it's the
seventh inning in your tired, it's a tournament and it's a
third name of the day or maybe it's just, it's the end of the
season. Now, you're negotiating this
like, where's my arm in relationto my trunk?
Probably so much. So that again, this is where
it's like, it's too many balls, right?
And so, I often think it's just important to understand, we
(15:12):
train a lot. In pitching for variability
knowing how important it is and this is where we are.
Changing weights, we are changing tasks, will do things
where we'll say, like, okay, you're always gonna throw a
different weighted ball but the target is stable, so different
weight, stable Target, then you're going to go Sick normal
(15:32):
weight, so similar, weight, constant, weight constant,
Target, constant weight, multiple Target and like, we're
always embedding those types of Concepts into training to make
sure that we know how to do thatat, varying intensities vary the
task. Very, what's going on in the
arm? Very what's going on with with
the you know what you're supposed to be executing and
then there comes a time where For many pictures.
(15:56):
They're internal. Stability becomes so low.
Were they literally can't do those things anymore and execute
and so I think that's really where that's like threshold.
Really, you know, is establishedand understanding.
Yes, I need variability. Here's what it actually means
here's how I would train it and check it.
But if I don't keep the underlying foundation in check,
(16:19):
then I'm literally not going to have the option to do that.
And so I just think that's very,very important.
That's what you were trying to emphasize Chris.
It's not very ability. Like the move is different.
Every time it has to come off ofthis like Baseline of stability,
just outside the movement outside, the hitting the swing
(16:39):
outside, the pitching motion, just like, what is that Baseline
stability. And so, then does the center of
the body. Give you a constant to work off
of or not. That's really the relationship
that we're talking about here. Yeah, well, and I think it's
like it is the idea of a movement solution, right?
Because at the end of the day Elite athletes can Work around
(17:03):
varying things that happen. And there are things that, you
know, your body changes the mound changes, the Umpire zone
changes, and you have to make some adjustment.
And if what we see often is the sort of collision of the things
that you are talking about was just kind of what I was just
describing, which is an athlete without stability, because They
(17:23):
shouldn't have stability is thentold and put into a system where
they're like this. Task needs to look identical
every single time. And so not only is that not true
in most cases that the task literally looks that identical
that we're talking about where we should Freeze Frame people
and make sure they're you know hands with the same and they're
(17:44):
going to the same extension and love you to death announcers but
like let's stop using power V please and hit that literally
makes no sense. But this extension like she
really got through. It's like their version of
extension power V except when you watch hitting like, go watch
ten different clips of home runsat the Collegiate level and If
(18:07):
it's an inside high pitch, they won't get to that.
So, is that wrong? Even though they had a home run.
Anyways, then that's what we're talking about though.
That's very is that, that pitch that the solution to hit that
pitch Fair as a home run, required that athlete, not to go
to the power V movement. And that athlete has a level of
variability where they can tap into that.
(18:29):
And that is what variability looks like in hitting is that
sometimes to accomplish the tasks, you have to vary off of
you do vary off of some sort of Base nutrient know.
Yeah I'm watching that hitter with my eyes over and over.
I'm not gonna be like whoa, thisperson looks different every
single time, like most of the core things, as you're saying,
(18:51):
actually, are going to look similar if we divide mechanics
on those every time. A lot of the core I'm a case
pieces would stay in the normative ranges.
We're not talking about varying like huge, massive amounts, but
there will be some principles about how they accomplish that
task that changed significantly in order to accomplish it in a
way they need to. So for pictures, if that's hand
(19:11):
really, you know, released timing and different things like
that, to get strikes because their body has changed because
the umpires zone is requiring, something whatever that is,
you'll see that variation. And what we see so often in this
like, Ideas that we we don't think one we literally don't
acknowledge that that variation exists.
We try to teach the skill as though there is not that
(19:34):
variation and we get these athletes kind of stuck and not
being able to Vary in a way thatactually athletes do and and as
you said, Laura and as the blog Vengeance, there's a variety of
you know not good things about that at its worst being injury
which is you know you step wrongand you don't you can't bury
(19:58):
your body can adjust to it or you're super fatigued and your
body can't adjust to the change in body position or or whatever
those things are. And so the way that we manage,
this is for the younger athletesthat we do work with which is
not many but our suggestion would be for those who are
working with younger athletes isto create some stability through
(20:19):
something like strength and conditioning.
But in all their skill training,they should have a level of
variability of sort of allowing them to explore Freedom.
Really, I think is even more important than variability which
is they don't have those things.And so this idea that you can
put them in a box is really going to backfire for that
(20:39):
athlete later. So let them as they are gaining
stability. Outside of the motion have have
and be asked to tap into different things.
So I'm pitching that might be like, throwing to different
targets. Maybe you keep the same ball
because of just where they are for hitting.
We do switch bats, for young or athletes.
We switch angles. Still, we do a lot of things
where they're starting to explore at a level that they can
(21:01):
still have success. how to have that variation and then
obviously, as our athletes are older whether we're trying to
break the rigidity or the that we have a very building, we're
trying to keep that very abilityand that that, you know,
Allotment of movement Solutions.I guess the way that we train
that is by instead of sort of like, putting them in a box
(21:24):
things that we've talked about, which is giving them, some
Freedom, some some constraints, and some design around them to
encourage a slightly more efficient way of doing things,
but otherwise make sure that those limitations are not so
narrow and so tight that they don't have the ability to have
this variation. And so to really tap into things
(21:45):
and honestly I think in hitting one of the things we've been
doing lately is finding more andmore ways to create variation
because you know, something thatwe've talked about in our
department is like, Even doing adrill like a certain amount of
times in a row, you're starting to get them to stuck in
something, you know, and so, so really upping the variation,
because we just see this so muchwhere the ball goes up when they
(22:08):
think he's going to go down and they don't have a solution.
So, like solve that problem, because we've gotten very stuck
in this one way of doing things.So, I think that's kind of how
we see this all playing out in things and probably the
research, you know, running makes a lot of sense where, like
I'm going and I, you know, obviously like a step on
something, a little different, or my body has to readjust.
We have women, our body is changing, you know, we have a
(22:30):
lot of ACL stuff about this, youknow, I mean, this is related,
which is our body literally changes during the months in
different ways. And so if you can't tap into
variation, When your body is changing, that's not great, it's
not great. And it has some not great
results for for injuries and things like that.
So, that's kind of how we see it.
(22:50):
And I think, It's so counter to how we teach things.
Most of the time which is like to try to put, you know,
athletes in this like well Krista all the time like this is
where the concept of like cycling environments is really
really a staple approach for us at OGX.
So from a pitching side, We if someone were to be at high
(23:13):
intensity and and when we get tothem to, you know, whatever
their full distances, we do havesome athletes that maybe like 13
or something and potentially be at 40 feet, right?
So like 40 feet, 43 feet, whatever they're full is and
they're going 100% intensity. If they do, not the task is,
they are trying to practice for the task.
But we can't just be like, oh, you through six balls all over
(23:36):
the place. Like okay, good luck this
weekend and we could but you know, that athletes, not feeling
that great. And so the first thing that we
do is like and it's probably written in the program for them
to do this anyway, but if it wasn't we would recommend like
hey go back to an ex environment.
So an example of what am I look like?
A special for a young girl athlete.
They would throw a plyos at different weights and have to
hit a same Target over and over so that they established this
(23:59):
realm of variability but at low intensity you usually 50 to 75%
intensity because that's where we can provide the stability for
that. Then we'll do the same thing
where we then take a lower intensity switch.
Into a softball. Hey, can you stabilize now?
Can you vary it a little bit when it's all under control?
And how are you doing with that at high intensity and high
intensity? It's not as good and so like,
(24:20):
okay, go back around. That again goes cycle the
plywood again now bring it up toa softball and be at low
intensity and keep going from environment to environment.
And this is how we get athletes to basically assess when they're
at full intensity, full distance.
How did I do with that execution?
(24:42):
Okay, this is what I didn't do. Well, let me go renovate those
Concepts in an environment whereI probably have more control
right or like where I can feel my body a little bit more.
This is movement creating the ability to have movement, so
different movement Solutions. This is how you teach things.
And what I think is interesting is that whenever you comment on
someone's patterns, like, even if I have remote kids, that
(25:05):
sometimes will send like a videoin, right, and you comment on
something, they'll be like do you have a drill for that?
Even our athletes still say thata lot and I always think that's
interesting like okay, we just keep educating them.
Do you have a drill? What we have done?
Definitely in a while but from apitching standpoint is like when
you're not doing well, this partof the motion, Go create a drill
(25:27):
and then make it go. I mean it's like absolute
rigidity, it's not based in giving that movements, you know,
helping them find different movement Solutions, it's not
based in them having movement, variability.
It's literally now Master. The drill, as if mastering some
drill is then going to move intothe motion if the motion is all
about variability. And all we try to do to fix
(25:48):
patterns is to master these likedrills that likely another topic
don't even match the movements that are being asked of you in
the actual motion, but that is not the track that we should be
on. Instead we want to get them to
understand like no go work through the full motion in a
different environment in a lowerintensity with a different ball
(26:11):
type to help you understand, then you internally can navigate
that change. And that's ultimately what's
going to translate? Oh yeah, I think go ahead say
the thing. I kind of wrote down just to
make sure I mention is this, youknow, Chris you talked about
like younger athletes and not putting them into these like
(26:32):
really rigid Solutions. And you know, something I talk
about with a lot of our our parents or I have, you know,
I'll have Consulting calls with parents.
That are frustrated through, maybe don't, maybe don't quite
yet, understand or appreciate what puberty does to kids in the
special young female athletes. And so, what we, what we see is
(26:52):
this kind of unfortunate pairingup of you've got puberty hitting
which is changing all of the parameters about the body,
right? Lengthens wait, we talk about
that a lot and then you are alsotrying in the midst of all of
that chaos that's already introducing natural variability
into the motion. It's already doing that.
The except lens are longer heavier even if they're throwing
(27:14):
the same way to fall, their bodyis changing.
That's already introducing chaosand And the old, I said the
typical approaches and let's just like, let's just lock the
motion down, right? Let's just either control the
endpoint by hitting spots or breaking down drills.
As you mentioned, actually very rigid, and it's like puberty is
already introduced to variability for you and it's
(27:36):
very hard and I certainly respect the frustration that
coaches and parents feel any athletes.
Feel about the navigating that transition, but then to just to
say, like okay, you have this variability, we ultimately want
to preserve it, the ultimately want your body to be able to
navigate so changes like this. It's to me, it's no different
(27:57):
than you take that, you know, that high school senior who's
never lifted before and you put her in a, you know, badass
drinking conditioning program, her body has changed and so to
adapt to that, then allowing herto adapt to it through.
Puberty is what's going to preserve her ability to do that.
And we often do is saying no, we're gonna, we're gonna lock
her down into this motion this pattern.
(28:18):
It has to look like this. And we're just going to say,
well, if that endpoint is chaos,we're going to make the start
point less chaos. And that when that gets post
puberty, it is stuck. It is so hard.
You mentioned, this Krista it isso hard to get kids out of
patterns that have been just so ingrained on them because they
never had the opportunity. They were, it was too rigid to
(28:41):
be able to control that variability, that was introduced
through puberty. And so, I get it's frustrating
but it's a very, very important learning point for the body,
especially in a movement, that is so difficult to coordinate,
like the pitching motion. Basically drills are the worst
out and put on social because drills are the worst and all
(29:01):
that broken down. Well we do drills but we do.
Yeah, broke down. Yeah.
No, the traditional like what's the drill to fix that?
It's like I die a little. Every time.
Someone asks that question. Also that I was like, remember
when I got asked to do a drills drills drills, talk like that.
(29:21):
I was because I'm the person that's like drills are the
worst, but they simply this idea, of course we do drills but
in a way that is, They're centered around.
The athlete. Exploring movement and finding
the solution on their own. That is a way that is not a
drill in the entire day of the pitching motion.
(29:42):
That's the key part, right? The entire high efficiency of
the Swing, the entirety of the pitching motion typically, it's
an environment where they can establish a little more control
and there's some training Implement, apply you along that
a short back, something a weighted ball, there is some
training Implement that has allowing them to feel where they
are. That's going to help them get
(30:03):
into. We're not just like go try it on
your own and see if you can findthe solution.
We design and environment at a particular intensity.
Maybe we manipulate how they're starting.
Maybe we give them a certain bator ball and it helps get them
into that now. I feel what it's supposed to be
like, right? And so that's we say it's a
drill because we don't want to scare people too much.
(30:24):
That's not real. That's, you know.
Yeah, it's not drilling the way that I was actually drills.
Guys, they're the worst and I just think like if you Are if
you're listening to this seriously and you are a parent
of an athlete that goes to lessons, and they just do drills
in a very traditional way. They take the motion as if it
(30:48):
starts in a t as if it starts ina k you have to stop your swing
at some point. Like, I hope you listen to this
and are like, oh damn. I mean, it's time to run because
that is actively choosing to lower your athletes ceiling in
the long run 100%. We're not like unsure about
(31:08):
this. It is an active choice at that
point to lower their ceiling in the long run for the sake of
manipulating a training session and making it look like you're
building a rock star. So if it's time to start, like
understanding that concept for our own athletes, stop asking
what's the drill for that. It's already embedded in your
program and then for anyone outside of people who follow our
programs, I think you have to start looking at how your
(31:31):
coaches are instructors. Are trying to get your athlete
to make. Changes.
Because if it's traditional drill, it ain't gonna work.
I was having some PTSD from being a Now Sports mom of two
kids who really really don't take Sports very seriously.
So just full copy out. My kids are not going to be a
professional athletes one day, but they like to play.
(31:53):
So we go and we're in the thingsas should be the case for a 9
and 7 year old. But I I it's very hard.
First of all I always sit there and think like no one knows that
I like probably know the most about sports of any of the
people here because I just sit in the corner and I don't say
(32:14):
anything, you know, and the people you're the whole.
I just think this every time there I'm like the Soccer's,
medium. I'll say that the soccer
structure is is medium. I feel like I could see how that
from a developmental standpoint now, They they only play on the
weekend, the Rex system were in,they play 17 the weekend.
(32:34):
They have one practice. The Rachel seems fine.
The kids are into it. Like, what?
I mean, whatever it seems fine. It's a smaller Fields There Are
Rules, whatever the baseball system.
Is. I just I my parents house to
speak in the night. I kept saying this is actively
actively destroying development.Like I there was a kid.
(32:56):
First of all, I helped coach in the Little League organization
in our area last year and my sonwas in second grade last year.
So, whatever, eight you. I don't know what that would be
seven you. Um thank you.
Technically and we did, it was supposed to be full kid pitch,
last year and the coaches in ourleague.
All agree that we have talked about this before.
(33:17):
We were going to Not Duplicate. We did some kid, bitch, and some
coaches. And at the end of the year, the
person in charge of the league was like, we we're not as good
as the other areas. So we need to start kid pitch
earlier and I was like, that is insane.
Like I don't, that is insane. These kids can even pitch yet
and it's not fun. And the kids that can pitch and
(33:37):
strike out everyone and the physically and then you can't
pitch the kids that can't pitch because they walk every one.
And so I was like, what if we dothe machine?
He was like, well that's just too easy.
You might. That what's happening.
So anyways this year my seven year old started playing and I
walked up to the first game and its full kid pitch in first
grade So in my son's very first of that we got Nails.
(34:00):
Yeah, it's like start sending them in the Michelin Man suit,
right? Then we get to see issue, right?
Right there was a kid who threw Hard.
Because he's the big kid and literally, I think maybe his dad
was the coach, just another kid,his dad was like, throw it slow
and I was like, oh, are we doing?
We are actively telling the kid who throws hard to throw slower
(34:24):
because he's going to hurt someone because he's seven like
and then every single You know, coach dad bless all of their
hearts for volunteering but theylike, you know, the kids come up
because they're seven and they're like, oh so we know
that. It's just some weird position
that I was just like every ounceof this is literally when you
(34:44):
know about development actively like the good kid that throws
hard. We're like don't do that.
The bad kid that flimsy were like trying to get into this
weird position. Like I it literally all of this
and just like we are we have created environment.
Against any principal of Player Development or physical
development? I was just like this is tough,
(35:06):
this is tough. I'm gonna I'm gonna educate you
as if you don't know anything and you're just a parent, it
will be fine for your children. As long as you don't take that
concept and run with it. Now, let's go to hitting
lessons. Now, as long as your kids do
multiple sports, right? You are the, you know, my kids
are short and anything because they absolutely not right.
(35:28):
So, like that, like the whole week, right?
Exactly. So it's like, if they are
playing baseball, it's with you.It's with they're having
Freedom, then they're playing other sports.
They're this is the concept of like kids should play multiple
sports like shit. We all know that.
It's just logistically, it's impossible.
But the root of why kids should play multiple Sports when
(35:49):
they're, young is exactly what you're talking about today.
Laura, this is what they're trying to build and so the
reality is that sport like baseball and softball are too
hard for kids. Who are eight, nine ten, it's
not at one point my my dear mother who maybe listen to this
or maybe Paul clip this in musicwas, you know, they had the
(36:12):
baseball and I actually have video of Teddy My youngest he
was in right field, the whole inning.
I don't know the holy most of the Eddie he just ran in circles
and I just videoed him and I would go the game would be going
and then we go back and he was just running in circles and my
mom was like, he really needs topay attention and I said he's
getting in the booster seat after this and I'm bored.
(36:33):
Like, I don't think the dude does need to pay attention.
Anyways, this is getting really just It's not the key to it.
Is that as you are building any environment and so you know
we've talked about this a variety of ways when I'm a
governing body, you are buildingan environment.
When I am in a training session,you are building environment
(36:55):
when you are hitting in the backyard with your kid.
You are creating environment. All of these things are creating
environments for development. And it's important.
Yes, if you're a parent, you're just supporting like you don't
need to go read research papers about these Concepts and and
know every detail. But it is important at this
(37:15):
stage of the game with all of the information that we have,
that the players, the key players in charge of those the
creation of those environments, whether it is a governing body.
Whether is the coaches, whether it is the person training,
Actually has some Foundation of understanding the body and
development and that those principles are being adopted.
(37:38):
And so if kind of to the point of what you're saying Ashley, if
a core principle of a training environment, you are in is that
the skill should be repeated exactly the same every single
time and that you should continue to take repetitions in
a way that ensures that you can repeat the skill.
Exactly the same. Every time that's to be a big
(37:59):
red flag for you because that isnot how the body works.
That is not, it's not, it's not only not how the body works.
It's not how you learn skill, it's not what the skill is
right. There are so many things which
is why we can speak so strongly about drills and when we say
drills, but drills that at theircore are saying, we need this
(38:20):
drill to make sure that we can get to extension in this exact
way. Every single time and hitting
that just doesn't happen. That literally doesn't happen.
The skill that's Not how the athletes going to learn that
movement, you know, that's not going to be something.
So that's the core of it and I think that's the core of some of
the like frustration around. So these systems is that like
when that dad last year or the guy who was helping the leak
(38:44):
said that machine was going to be too easy.
I just thought like, Oh, well, now I'm like, literally I just
might as well put headphones in for the rest of the game because
you you are not coming into thisconversation with any
understanding of the concepts around development.
And that, that part is frustrating because it's like,
you're a decision maker, you area decision maker.
(39:06):
So, just when you're thinking about what environments, you're
putting your kids in, and these stages and the ultimate goals
you're going for, it's just trying to create a system where
as many of their decision makersas possible.
Have some key understanding the Player Development, which is, I
think this is all. So Chris, that's not just a
young, it's not just a young kid.
No, I just want some specific circumstances.
(39:30):
Come up is, I definitely think there are times where I'm like,
I think we're focusing too much on stability on being able to
hit that drop away, six times ina row, like right, when do you
ever call it six times in a row at that spot.
So like maybe she has been able in training, she's mastered the
ability to throw 10 of them. In a garage, I've never
understood the ten in a row, butlike, you, she's mastered the
(39:51):
ability to throw 10 in the exactsame spot, but that will never
be asked her. So again, it could be used at a
foundational concept. So oftentimes in training will
say like, okay, get her to throwthree in a row.
At this spot. And then the next round, now
she's got to go one in the zone,two out of the zone and what
does out of the Zone look like is it getting someone to chase
low? Is it expanding the zone to our
(40:14):
arms side? A little bit?
Is it elevating? And so we are always trying to
then understand. Do you have the base of
stability? It's why we often use and not
often always use like fastball middle as a major training tool
because we're like, first throw five down and they know that's
your ultimate. Do you have a good foundation
base? Now, throw your three drops to
the same spot. Now very that drop, right?
(40:36):
So it's this progression. I also think another, that comes
up a lot. I do think we live at really
Elite levels training the like make the tasks to stable.
When the task is not only very the drop, it's very the drop.
Then throw something at someone's eyes, then they're a
change up from your arms side then move to your love side and
the variability is so high in the task and we don't ever like
(40:58):
get there that happens a lot at the college level and then the
other thing that happens is, youknow, command suffers big time.
And it always comes back on the pitching coaches.
And this is not a, like, this has nothing to do with pitching,
but then we'll like go back and look at video.
And this is a big learning pointfor me this year.
I thought to myself, okay, we'relooking at videos and literally
in their initial weight shift. Like, you see me collapse, which
(41:20):
is a huge indicator of loss of single leg stability.
And that's a major problem in the pitching motion.
And so I think that next year build into our like our schools
that do year-round Consulting isthat it's just like we do not
miss these like movement qualitychecks to see what they're
looking like stability wise at acertain, you know, because I
think basically that get outsidethe pitching motion that
(41:44):
Foundation of stability. We often when we see an athlete
struggling to make adjustments, throw too many balls, as I
mentioned earlier in this episode, then we like go to the
bullpen but we need again to know like when it's the loss of
stability is not just oh, go fixthe motion.
It's deeper than that. So I would say those are the two
(42:04):
major concepts of literally training stability, too much.
And number two, which is not understanding the root of the
loss of stability. Are the two worlds where this
like, stability variability relationship, really come into
play at the more Elite levels ofthe game.
So this is a concept that I think has huge implications.
(42:25):
First of all, Laura Star as you were talking earlier, Mike, this
topic is freaking rock star so and you explained it so
eloquently and my favorite things about you.
Anyway, so huge implications forthe Youth.
The young kids like Chris. And I are talking about these
nine year olds were wearing the corner like, damn.
It's like, you know, it's rough to watch.
(42:46):
It happens a lot at the high school level and it often is the
reason why they're stealing is getting stuck low, but there are
implications for this at the college level as well.
So I think that's important to understand that this is like a
cross age group to developmentalage chronological age, type of
concept movement, very ability to humans have, doesn't it's a
(43:08):
human concept. That doesn't mean after, you
know, your first period. So I think that's important,
exactly how it plays out. Looks different based on where
you are, but it applies to all Right?
It's always a good topic when I'm like taking notes.
So I just called notes of thingslike today.
(43:30):
Maybe next week we'll have some updates about regionals.
We were about to be in South allmedia for that that's about to
be so All right. Well, I hope you learned
something. I hope we made any sense and
until next time,
We are back for another episode and at the time of year where
we're all distracted by watchingcell phone in the background.
So, if you see our heads on the swivel, we are checking in on
conference play right now has begun, is that I was gonna say,
what time of year is that February through June?
Yes, seriously, the little in the Middle where we maybe aren't
(00:25):
quite as distracted but yeah, back into back into accident.
I've got to get my like TV set up so I can watch all the games.
But I do like the time of year where the game start at like 8
a.m. I sat down I was like yeah it's
awesome. Now the SEC has like 42 teams in
it and the tournament starts on Tuesday or whatever.
(00:45):
So yeah, that's fun. But yeah, it's good time of year
but that's not what we're gonna talk about.
Today, we are gonna talk about aconcept that Laura is actually
wrote A Blog. And that's going to be released
soon. This concept of movement
variability, and kind of what we're going for as far as
movement, when we're training skill, acquisition whether
(01:06):
you're training pitching hitting.
So what I'm thinking to you to maybe, give not all the details,
they can, everyone can go read the blog.
Do you want all the details? But give just a little
overarching summary of kind of the Core Concepts and then we
can kind of kick off from there of how you know our training
might inform you informed by that they're different things
(01:27):
that we see. Yeah.
This is a you know, this is the topic I'll say is it doesn't get
a ton of attention in research. I think it's to quantify.
We talked about like, you know, how variable someone's movement
is meaning the, you know, degrees of which we can measure
our our pretty small. And so deciding what, you know
(01:47):
what variations in a movement pattern are appropriate and
healthy is tricky. But this is a topic that I
think, you know, both from a training standpoint.
And also when we talk about comparing biomechanics and
patterns and swings and pitchingpatterns over time is something
that we need to talk about. You know, we've we've sort of
and this is not even specific tosoftball.
(02:07):
This is this is really rooted and just our perceptions of what
we understood about the brain, and the way in which we sort of,
you know, produce our movement. And so for a very, very long
time, the presumption was just kind of like we just we get
experience and exposure to a movement and not even something
Sports specific, but just in ourenvironment and our brains like,
(02:29):
all right, when we just kind of Tuck that back like a cassette
tape that I can pull out and putin when I need it and for a long
time that's kind of that's how. Be coached as where it's where
this concept of, like, ideal mechanics and coaching to some
level of, you know, a very rigidmindset of like this is, these
are the patterns you have to have.
(02:49):
That's where that came from, because the presumption then was
like if you pick the wrong cassette tape, that's your
fault, right. And so, a lot of training
revolved around essentially putting in the right cassette
tape, right? The right movement pattern and
the right, you know, ideal movement pattern.
And honestly it really wasn't until it really wasn't until the
60s until we had some texts thatwas translated out of Russian to
(03:10):
tell us that like there's a lot of variability in the way humans
move. It was a pretty novel concept at
the time and I'm saying like it was on the 1960s but the concept
that like Elite athletes, Elite performers, people who do
repetitive movements, don't actually repeat their movements,
the same every time and that's pretty critical.
I think in our sport you know hitting introduces sort of
(03:33):
natural variability because you've got a bald at moves
Pitching does not pitching his so long.
Been rooted in this like it is you have this pattern.
This is what you have to repeat.And if you don't repeat that
pattern, you've somehow made an error.
It's somehow wrong. And we sort of said that like
very rigid repeatable mechanics are like the goal and I'll say,
like between the, you know, thisthis sort of collision of
(03:54):
biomechanics and motor control. It doesn't operate like that.
And we've, we've got research inareas of the body of running and
heart rate variability and places, where our body actually
the human body actually likes very ability.
We need variability when we're at either opposite ends of the
spectrum with something is too. Invariant we don't we don't
fluctuate. We don't change our blood
pressure when we need or something is way too way too
(04:18):
variable, you're going to use a rythmia.
I just keeping with a hard example, those extremes are bad,
right? So we are always trying to live
in some bandwidth where we are, you know maybe little less
invariant more variable, it's this, it's a Continuum it's not
this you have your patterns and this is what you have to do
every time. The concept that I think really
(04:38):
applies and I think this is particular to pitchers in our
world is the kind of this this injury resilience that develops
because of movement variability.So when we talk about, you know,
how do we keep pitchers healthy?How to keep athletes healthy,
those very rigid mechanics that are just the same thing over and
over again. Particularly if they're
(04:58):
inefficient, you know, even witha lead athletes with great
compensations, they can have some, you know, risk of injury
is that we want the body to keepsolving problems, that's how it
builds its resilience. And so the the applications not
just a training, obviously it ties so much into, you know, our
long Bosch shorts plyos and the way we introduced that problem
(05:19):
solving but it is really a to me, it's the most important
aspect of it beside the performance implications is
helping your body. Just to be resilient to solve
these problems. I always talk about strength and
conditioning is solving movementproblems, just at a lower
intensity than what we do in thesport.
And Those types of problems are really critical.
It's not just strength and conditioning equals.
(05:40):
Reducing injury risk. It's the concept that the body
is put through these problems tosolve ranges of motion speeds of
movement, that really let it say.
Okay, I'm I'm fatigued so I can't tap into my normal
strategy or my typical strategy and so I have a solution or set
of solutions that I can adjust and I think it's we see this I
(06:01):
think across the board over you know the course of the season
over the course of a training Year, we're patterns change,
just what we do humans adapt, wewe change what we do in
variation and so to assume that that doesn't happen, you know,
in sport it misses a opportunity.
I think to develop this resilience to repetitive motion
(06:22):
and pitching is, you know, definitely a great example of
that and there's kind of two piece is, there's the problem
solving, there's the sort of motor control and motor
planning, aspect of it of being able to adapt and adjust to, you
know, pressure, we're now in conference.
Tournaments to whether to fatigue but there's also this
concept of like if if the goal is just to repeat something over
(06:43):
and over again, you are going toplace stress on tissues.
That at a certain point, they'renot going to be able to respond
and so that variability of movement kind of shares the
stress a little bit across the body and it helps in that
problem solving to figure out what are these solutions that an
athlete has that not only allowsthem to, you know, have
(07:06):
performance and adapt and on thefly.
But also spreads that stress around and allows, those tissues
of those areas of some hot spotsand pictures to, you know, have
an opportunity to remodel to come back to, you know, not be
sort of worn down by this same pattern over and over and over
again. That's kind of General Primus
(07:27):
is. It's not about, you know, we
pick the cassette tape and it's a one-way conversation.
Variability is a really, really important byproduct.
It's a healthy byproduct. Even movement, and I think, you
know, in in my very biased opinion, softball pitching is
just, it's one of the best examples.
It's, it's so complicated, it's high intensity, its high
velocity. I say with a ton of bias as a
(07:48):
former pitcher but it just seemslike such a great application of
this variability concept to movements that are that quick
because oftentimes it had been applied to like running and
cycling and he's really kind of like low energy State,
repetitive movements. And I think the application up
the chain is something a little higher velocity is really,
really important because you know the energy that pitchers
(08:11):
produce the positions, they put their bodies in the volume that
they throw. You know, injured resilience is
in my opinion. It's one of the biggest things
you have to chase is a picture right now. yeah, I was gonna say
when I think about this concept,one of the like negative,
Descriptions. That will also will often give
(08:32):
headers when they come in for their assessment, is that
they're very rigid. And we've talked about that
concept before. And so, some of that concept
doesn't, is not really exactly what we're applying here.
Which is, there's a concept of rigidity that we talk about
where when an athlete does have a lot of variation because they
are struggling with stability, so young athletes that they get
(08:53):
rigid in. Their limbs, you know, and
hitting the kind of lock out their upper body, a lot of times
in different ways and pitching all have a very stiff arm
action. And so, that's not exactly what
we're talking about here. Because that rigidity actually
comes from a level of variability, that is too much,
because that athlete is lacking stability.
So, level of sort of like core variability, if you will, but,
(09:17):
There are older athletes. We have who.
That's not what we're saying? When we're talking about
rigidity and really often in hitting what it looks like is an
athlete who has only trained in front toss.
So a very sort of like one specific skill that they've
done, that is repeated over and over and over with out, very
(09:38):
much variability because of the sort of context to it.
And what you see from that athlete, is that then they've
learned this sort of one movement solution that they
cannot tap into a level of variability.
That actually, is needed in the skill to be successful hitting.
I think is a little simpler to like grasp this concept,
because, of course, you have to be variable, like, almost the
(10:00):
idea that you don't that you aren't variable, although
training sometimes still ignoresthat.
But like, you have to be variable because you're
adjusting to timing, Heights, pitch locations, like, that's in
some ways obvious, right? But this idea that we can look
at one video of someone doing front Saws, and say, we want you
to literally look to the minute exactly the same every time, and
(10:22):
that's what we're going for. Is a is not a great concept.
For all the reasons that we knowthe body needs to adjust what
happens. If literally, you step in a box
that has mud in it and you have your that rigid that's when
we're talking about one that might affect performance if you
can't sort of tap into variability, to that is where
some injuries come from all the way down to, to different.
(10:42):
Reasons for that. And so I, that's a phrase, we
use a lot in hitting is like that, you know, this athletes.
Sometimes they look powerful, they have high exit velocity or
like, oh, this kid might be ableto swing it.
And when you watch front toss tolike, because this we've trained
this one thing and we've we've trained the skill to be
repetitive and when we, especially when we train it that
(11:04):
way, and they didn't get there from sort of like learning it,
they get really stuck in that. And that's something that we
it's actually quite hard to break and it just requires some
like time and exposure to different movements to sort of,
like, getting them outside of that one path that you have.
But I don't know, maybe I shouldget to you because I do think
the concepts are it's less obvious, that you need some
(11:26):
variability in Pigeon. I think there's people think
you're just trying to repeat that same thing over and over.
And if you and and we're not talking about like on one, your
glove is in the air and on this second, you love is not in the
air, like we're not talking about that level variable but
maybe just walk through kind of how you see.
This applying pitching. Yeah, I think the biggest
concept here is to understand the relationship and you touched
(11:48):
on this a little bit already Krista but the relationship
between stability and variability, right?
If you don't have a Baseline anda foundation of stability,
meaning literally stability in the body, the ability to
stabilize through the center of the body, the ability to
stabilize on a single leg. I mean like these are the types
of you have to have a baseline of stability in order to tap
(12:09):
into variability and so that is so important to understand.
So this is why all hitting and pitching lessons for younger
kids. I shouldn't say all, but most of
them are just brutal because They're so unstable.
They're not supposed to be stable yet their bodies are just
(12:31):
they just keep growing. They're getting taller, their
weight is changing. It's just a constant.
There's so much variability. They don't have stability yet.
They don't have that opportunity.
And so then we're asking them todo tasks that require
variability and their variable. So, what variable?
And so what happens Krista is what you're referring to, right?
So then we just tried to like force the tasks to be stable to
(12:54):
get some result and then that ends up being a major problem.
So that's how we see in younger kids.
And then, for our older athletes, you know, I think it's
interesting like we see that we've talked about this in the
podcast, many times, the more games you play, the more
fatigued, you get, the more yourstability goes down.
And so, like command is a numberone thing to really suffer.
(13:19):
Essentially, when you're feeling, and that is a
representation of variability. So no one when someone is having
Trouble like oh, it's too many walls.
They too many hit by pitches. Whatever.
Too many free passes. It's not that they need to work
on like stability more, you know, because it's not like, oh,
they threw one ball and now we're like, nope.
(13:41):
Let's get it back. It's that when they threw a
ball, they they couldn't make anadjustment, right?
And so that is so different. So, at the base of why they
can't tap in the variability is likely a lack of stability in
the body again whether it's you know, these foundational
movements of just like core stability, single leg,
stability, Etc, but variability,typically comes from its our
(14:06):
action and in pitching and it isspecifically very in the
relationship between arm and trunk.
So we want ideally the trunk to be very stable and not make the
motion look different every single time, it's just too much
to navigate. And then you're only really
(14:26):
creating variability based on things of where your body is
that day, meaning your center ofmass at deceleration.
What the Umpire zone is potentially, if the ground is
softer versus harder, it's Turf,it's sand, it's dirt, that's
pretty compact, whatever that might be.
And those are the external variables that you're trying to
navigate. And then as the body starts to,
(14:49):
now be a little bit shaky. Now you have more like
instability within the body, maybe it's just because it's the
seventh inning in your tired, it's a tournament and it's a
third name of the day or maybe it's just, it's the end of the
season. Now, you're negotiating this
like, where's my arm in relationto my trunk?
Probably so much. So that again, this is where
it's like, it's too many balls, right?
And so, I often think it's just important to understand, we
(15:12):
train a lot. In pitching for variability
knowing how important it is and this is where we are.
Changing weights, we are changing tasks, will do things
where we'll say, like, okay, you're always gonna throw a
different weighted ball but the target is stable, so different
weight, stable Target, then you're going to go Sick normal
(15:32):
weight, so similar, weight, constant, weight constant,
Target, constant weight, multiple Target and like, we're
always embedding those types of Concepts into training to make
sure that we know how to do thatat, varying intensities vary the
task. Very, what's going on in the
arm? Very what's going on with with
the you know what you're supposed to be executing and
then there comes a time where For many pictures.
(15:56):
They're internal. Stability becomes so low.
Were they literally can't do those things anymore and execute
and so I think that's really where that's like threshold.
Really, you know, is establishedand understanding.
Yes, I need variability. Here's what it actually means
here's how I would train it and check it.
But if I don't keep the underlying foundation in check,
(16:19):
then I'm literally not going to have the option to do that.
And so I just think that's very,very important.
That's what you were trying to emphasize Chris.
It's not very ability. Like the move is different.
Every time it has to come off ofthis like Baseline of stability,
just outside the movement outside, the hitting the swing
(16:39):
outside, the pitching motion, just like, what is that Baseline
stability. And so, then does the center of
the body. Give you a constant to work off
of or not. That's really the relationship
that we're talking about here. Yeah, well, and I think it's
like it is the idea of a movement solution, right?
Because at the end of the day Elite athletes can Work around
(17:03):
varying things that happen. And there are things that, you
know, your body changes the mound changes, the Umpire zone
changes, and you have to make some adjustment.
And if what we see often is the sort of collision of the things
that you are talking about was just kind of what I was just
describing, which is an athlete without stability, because They
(17:23):
shouldn't have stability is thentold and put into a system where
they're like this. Task needs to look identical
every single time. And so not only is that not true
in most cases that the task literally looks that identical
that we're talking about where we should Freeze Frame people
and make sure they're you know hands with the same and they're
(17:44):
going to the same extension and love you to death announcers but
like let's stop using power V please and hit that literally
makes no sense. But this extension like she
really got through. It's like their version of
extension power V except when you watch hitting like, go watch
ten different clips of home runsat the Collegiate level and If
(18:07):
it's an inside high pitch, they won't get to that.
So, is that wrong? Even though they had a home run.
Anyways, then that's what we're talking about though.
That's very is that, that pitch that the solution to hit that
pitch Fair as a home run, required that athlete, not to go
to the power V movement. And that athlete has a level of
variability where they can tap into that.
(18:29):
And that is what variability looks like in hitting is that
sometimes to accomplish the tasks, you have to vary off of
you do vary off of some sort of Base nutrient know.
Yeah I'm watching that hitter with my eyes over and over.
I'm not gonna be like whoa, thisperson looks different every
single time, like most of the core things, as you're saying,
(18:51):
actually, are going to look similar if we divide mechanics
on those every time. A lot of the core I'm a case
pieces would stay in the normative ranges.
We're not talking about varying like huge, massive amounts, but
there will be some principles about how they accomplish that
task that changed significantly in order to accomplish it in a
way they need to. So for pictures, if that's hand
(19:11):
really, you know, released timing and different things like
that, to get strikes because their body has changed because
the umpires zone is requiring, something whatever that is,
you'll see that variation. And what we see so often in this
like, Ideas that we we don't think one we literally don't
acknowledge that that variation exists.
We try to teach the skill as though there is not that
(19:34):
variation and we get these athletes kind of stuck and not
being able to Vary in a way thatactually athletes do and and as
you said, Laura and as the blog Vengeance, there's a variety of
you know not good things about that at its worst being injury
which is you know you step wrongand you don't you can't bury
(19:58):
your body can adjust to it or you're super fatigued and your
body can't adjust to the change in body position or or whatever
those things are. And so the way that we manage,
this is for the younger athletesthat we do work with which is
not many but our suggestion would be for those who are
working with younger athletes isto create some stability through
(20:19):
something like strength and conditioning.
But in all their skill training,they should have a level of
variability of sort of allowing them to explore Freedom.
Really, I think is even more important than variability which
is they don't have those things.And so this idea that you can
put them in a box is really going to backfire for that
(20:39):
athlete later. So let them as they are gaining
stability. Outside of the motion have have
and be asked to tap into different things.
So I'm pitching that might be like, throwing to different
targets. Maybe you keep the same ball
because of just where they are for hitting.
We do switch bats, for young or athletes.
We switch angles. Still, we do a lot of things
where they're starting to explore at a level that they can
(21:01):
still have success. how to have that variation and then
obviously, as our athletes are older whether we're trying to
break the rigidity or the that we have a very building, we're
trying to keep that very abilityand that that, you know,
Allotment of movement Solutions.I guess the way that we train
that is by instead of sort of like, putting them in a box
(21:24):
things that we've talked about, which is giving them, some
Freedom, some some constraints, and some design around them to
encourage a slightly more efficient way of doing things,
but otherwise make sure that those limitations are not so
narrow and so tight that they don't have the ability to have
this variation. And so to really tap into things
(21:45):
and honestly I think in hitting one of the things we've been
doing lately is finding more andmore ways to create variation
because you know, something thatwe've talked about in our
department is like, Even doing adrill like a certain amount of
times in a row, you're starting to get them to stuck in
something, you know, and so, so really upping the variation,
because we just see this so muchwhere the ball goes up when they
(22:08):
think he's going to go down and they don't have a solution.
So, like solve that problem, because we've gotten very stuck
in this one way of doing things.So, I think that's kind of how
we see this all playing out in things and probably the
research, you know, running makes a lot of sense where, like
I'm going and I, you know, obviously like a step on
something, a little different, or my body has to readjust.
We have women, our body is changing, you know, we have a
(22:30):
lot of ACL stuff about this, youknow, I mean, this is related,
which is our body literally changes during the months in
different ways. And so if you can't tap into
variation, When your body is changing, that's not great, it's
not great. And it has some not great
results for for injuries and things like that.
So, that's kind of how we see it.
(22:50):
And I think, It's so counter to how we teach things.
Most of the time which is like to try to put, you know,
athletes in this like well Krista all the time like this is
where the concept of like cycling environments is really
really a staple approach for us at OGX.
So from a pitching side, We if someone were to be at high
(23:13):
intensity and and when we get tothem to, you know, whatever
their full distances, we do havesome athletes that maybe like 13
or something and potentially be at 40 feet, right?
So like 40 feet, 43 feet, whatever they're full is and
they're going 100% intensity. If they do, not the task is,
they are trying to practice for the task.
But we can't just be like, oh, you through six balls all over
(23:36):
the place. Like okay, good luck this
weekend and we could but you know, that athletes, not feeling
that great. And so the first thing that we
do is like and it's probably written in the program for them
to do this anyway, but if it wasn't we would recommend like
hey go back to an ex environment.
So an example of what am I look like?
A special for a young girl athlete.
They would throw a plyos at different weights and have to
hit a same Target over and over so that they established this
(23:59):
realm of variability but at low intensity you usually 50 to 75%
intensity because that's where we can provide the stability for
that. Then we'll do the same thing
where we then take a lower intensity switch.
Into a softball. Hey, can you stabilize now?
Can you vary it a little bit when it's all under control?
And how are you doing with that at high intensity and high
intensity? It's not as good and so like,
(24:20):
okay, go back around. That again goes cycle the
plywood again now bring it up toa softball and be at low
intensity and keep going from environment to environment.
And this is how we get athletes to basically assess when they're
at full intensity, full distance.
How did I do with that execution?
(24:42):
Okay, this is what I didn't do. Well, let me go renovate those
Concepts in an environment whereI probably have more control
right or like where I can feel my body a little bit more.
This is movement creating the ability to have movement, so
different movement Solutions. This is how you teach things.
And what I think is interesting is that whenever you comment on
someone's patterns, like, even if I have remote kids, that
(25:05):
sometimes will send like a videoin, right, and you comment on
something, they'll be like do you have a drill for that?
Even our athletes still say thata lot and I always think that's
interesting like okay, we just keep educating them.
Do you have a drill? What we have done?
Definitely in a while but from apitching standpoint is like when
you're not doing well, this partof the motion, Go create a drill
(25:27):
and then make it go. I mean it's like absolute
rigidity, it's not based in giving that movements, you know,
helping them find different movement Solutions, it's not
based in them having movement, variability.
It's literally now Master. The drill, as if mastering some
drill is then going to move intothe motion if the motion is all
about variability. And all we try to do to fix
(25:48):
patterns is to master these likedrills that likely another topic
don't even match the movements that are being asked of you in
the actual motion, but that is not the track that we should be
on. Instead we want to get them to
understand like no go work through the full motion in a
different environment in a lowerintensity with a different ball
(26:11):
type to help you understand, then you internally can navigate
that change. And that's ultimately what's
going to translate? Oh yeah, I think go ahead say
the thing. I kind of wrote down just to
make sure I mention is this, youknow, Chris you talked about
like younger athletes and not putting them into these like
(26:32):
really rigid Solutions. And you know, something I talk
about with a lot of our our parents or I have, you know,
I'll have Consulting calls with parents.
That are frustrated through, maybe don't, maybe don't quite
yet, understand or appreciate what puberty does to kids in the
special young female athletes. And so, what we, what we see is
(26:52):
this kind of unfortunate pairingup of you've got puberty hitting
which is changing all of the parameters about the body,
right? Lengthens wait, we talk about
that a lot and then you are alsotrying in the midst of all of
that chaos that's already introducing natural variability
into the motion. It's already doing that.
The except lens are longer heavier even if they're throwing
(27:14):
the same way to fall, their bodyis changing.
That's already introducing chaosand And the old, I said the
typical approaches and let's just like, let's just lock the
motion down, right? Let's just either control the
endpoint by hitting spots or breaking down drills.
As you mentioned, actually very rigid, and it's like puberty is
already introduced to variability for you and it's
(27:36):
very hard and I certainly respect the frustration that
coaches and parents feel any athletes.
Feel about the navigating that transition, but then to just to
say, like okay, you have this variability, we ultimately want
to preserve it, the ultimately want your body to be able to
navigate so changes like this. It's to me, it's no different
(27:57):
than you take that, you know, that high school senior who's
never lifted before and you put her in a, you know, badass
drinking conditioning program, her body has changed and so to
adapt to that, then allowing herto adapt to it through.
Puberty is what's going to preserve her ability to do that.
And we often do is saying no, we're gonna, we're gonna lock
her down into this motion this pattern.
(28:18):
It has to look like this. And we're just going to say,
well, if that endpoint is chaos,we're going to make the start
point less chaos. And that when that gets post
puberty, it is stuck. It is so hard.
You mentioned, this Krista it isso hard to get kids out of
patterns that have been just so ingrained on them because they
never had the opportunity. They were, it was too rigid to
(28:41):
be able to control that variability, that was introduced
through puberty. And so, I get it's frustrating
but it's a very, very important learning point for the body,
especially in a movement, that is so difficult to coordinate,
like the pitching motion. Basically drills are the worst
out and put on social because drills are the worst and all
(29:01):
that broken down. Well we do drills but we do.
Yeah, broke down. Yeah.
No, the traditional like what's the drill to fix that?
It's like I die a little. Every time.
Someone asks that question. Also that I was like, remember
when I got asked to do a drills drills drills, talk like that.
(29:21):
I was because I'm the person that's like drills are the
worst, but they simply this idea, of course we do drills but
in a way that is, They're centered around.
The athlete. Exploring movement and finding
the solution on their own. That is a way that is not a
drill in the entire day of the pitching motion.
(29:42):
That's the key part, right? The entire high efficiency of
the Swing, the entirety of the pitching motion typically, it's
an environment where they can establish a little more control
and there's some training Implement, apply you along that
a short back, something a weighted ball, there is some
training Implement that has allowing them to feel where they
are. That's going to help them get
(30:03):
into. We're not just like go try it on
your own and see if you can findthe solution.
We design and environment at a particular intensity.
Maybe we manipulate how they're starting.
Maybe we give them a certain bator ball and it helps get them
into that now. I feel what it's supposed to be
like, right? And so that's we say it's a
drill because we don't want to scare people too much.
(30:24):
That's not real. That's, you know.
Yeah, it's not drilling the way that I was actually drills.
Guys, they're the worst and I just think like if you Are if
you're listening to this seriously and you are a parent
of an athlete that goes to lessons, and they just do drills
in a very traditional way. They take the motion as if it
(30:48):
starts in a t as if it starts ina k you have to stop your swing
at some point. Like, I hope you listen to this
and are like, oh damn. I mean, it's time to run because
that is actively choosing to lower your athletes ceiling in
the long run 100%. We're not like unsure about
(31:08):
this. It is an active choice at that
point to lower their ceiling in the long run for the sake of
manipulating a training session and making it look like you're
building a rock star. So if it's time to start, like
understanding that concept for our own athletes, stop asking
what's the drill for that. It's already embedded in your
program and then for anyone outside of people who follow our
programs, I think you have to start looking at how your
(31:31):
coaches are instructors. Are trying to get your athlete
to make. Changes.
Because if it's traditional drill, it ain't gonna work.
I was having some PTSD from being a Now Sports mom of two
kids who really really don't take Sports very seriously.
So just full copy out. My kids are not going to be a
professional athletes one day, but they like to play.
(31:53):
So we go and we're in the thingsas should be the case for a 9
and 7 year old. But I I it's very hard.
First of all I always sit there and think like no one knows that
I like probably know the most about sports of any of the
people here because I just sit in the corner and I don't say
(32:14):
anything, you know, and the people you're the whole.
I just think this every time there I'm like the Soccer's,
medium. I'll say that the soccer
structure is is medium. I feel like I could see how that
from a developmental standpoint now, They they only play on the
weekend, the Rex system were in,they play 17 the weekend.
(32:34):
They have one practice. The Rachel seems fine.
The kids are into it. Like, what?
I mean, whatever it seems fine. It's a smaller Fields There Are
Rules, whatever the baseball system.
Is. I just I my parents house to
speak in the night. I kept saying this is actively
actively destroying development.Like I there was a kid.
(32:56):
First of all, I helped coach in the Little League organization
in our area last year and my sonwas in second grade last year.
So, whatever, eight you. I don't know what that would be
seven you. Um thank you.
Technically and we did, it was supposed to be full kid pitch,
last year and the coaches in ourleague.
All agree that we have talked about this before.
(33:17):
We were going to Not Duplicate. We did some kid, bitch, and some
coaches. And at the end of the year, the
person in charge of the league was like, we we're not as good
as the other areas. So we need to start kid pitch
earlier and I was like, that is insane.
Like I don't, that is insane. These kids can even pitch yet
and it's not fun. And the kids that can pitch and
(33:37):
strike out everyone and the physically and then you can't
pitch the kids that can't pitch because they walk every one.
And so I was like, what if we dothe machine?
He was like, well that's just too easy.
You might. That what's happening.
So anyways this year my seven year old started playing and I
walked up to the first game and its full kid pitch in first
grade So in my son's very first of that we got Nails.
(34:00):
Yeah, it's like start sending them in the Michelin Man suit,
right? Then we get to see issue, right?
Right there was a kid who threw Hard.
Because he's the big kid and literally, I think maybe his dad
was the coach, just another kid,his dad was like, throw it slow
and I was like, oh, are we doing?
We are actively telling the kid who throws hard to throw slower
(34:24):
because he's going to hurt someone because he's seven like
and then every single You know, coach dad bless all of their
hearts for volunteering but theylike, you know, the kids come up
because they're seven and they're like, oh so we know
that. It's just some weird position
that I was just like every ounceof this is literally when you
(34:44):
know about development actively like the good kid that throws
hard. We're like don't do that.
The bad kid that flimsy were like trying to get into this
weird position. Like I it literally all of this
and just like we are we have created environment.
Against any principal of Player Development or physical
development? I was just like this is tough,
(35:06):
this is tough. I'm gonna I'm gonna educate you
as if you don't know anything and you're just a parent, it
will be fine for your children. As long as you don't take that
concept and run with it. Now, let's go to hitting
lessons. Now, as long as your kids do
multiple sports, right? You are the, you know, my kids
are short and anything because they absolutely not right.
(35:28):
So, like that, like the whole week, right?
Exactly. So it's like, if they are
playing baseball, it's with you.It's with they're having
Freedom, then they're playing other sports.
They're this is the concept of like kids should play multiple
sports like shit. We all know that.
It's just logistically, it's impossible.
But the root of why kids should play multiple Sports when
(35:49):
they're, young is exactly what you're talking about today.
Laura, this is what they're trying to build and so the
reality is that sport like baseball and softball are too
hard for kids. Who are eight, nine ten, it's
not at one point my my dear mother who maybe listen to this
or maybe Paul clip this in musicwas, you know, they had the
(36:12):
baseball and I actually have video of Teddy My youngest he
was in right field, the whole inning.
I don't know the holy most of the Eddie he just ran in circles
and I just videoed him and I would go the game would be going
and then we go back and he was just running in circles and my
mom was like, he really needs topay attention and I said he's
getting in the booster seat after this and I'm bored.
(36:33):
Like, I don't think the dude does need to pay attention.
Anyways, this is getting really just It's not the key to it.
Is that as you are building any environment and so you know
we've talked about this a variety of ways when I'm a
governing body, you are buildingan environment.
When I am in a training session,you are building environment
(36:55):
when you are hitting in the backyard with your kid.
You are creating environment. All of these things are creating
environments for development. And it's important.
Yes, if you're a parent, you're just supporting like you don't
need to go read research papers about these Concepts and and
know every detail. But it is important at this
(37:15):
stage of the game with all of the information that we have,
that the players, the key players in charge of those the
creation of those environments, whether it is a governing body.
Whether is the coaches, whether it is the person training,
Actually has some Foundation of understanding the body and
development and that those principles are being adopted.
(37:38):
And so if kind of to the point of what you're saying Ashley, if
a core principle of a training environment, you are in is that
the skill should be repeated exactly the same every single
time and that you should continue to take repetitions in
a way that ensures that you can repeat the skill.
Exactly the same. Every time that's to be a big
(37:59):
red flag for you because that isnot how the body works.
That is not, it's not, it's not only not how the body works.
It's not how you learn skill, it's not what the skill is
right. There are so many things which
is why we can speak so strongly about drills and when we say
drills, but drills that at theircore are saying, we need this
(38:20):
drill to make sure that we can get to extension in this exact
way. Every single time and hitting
that just doesn't happen. That literally doesn't happen.
The skill that's Not how the athletes going to learn that
movement, you know, that's not going to be something.
So that's the core of it and I think that's the core of some of
the like frustration around. So these systems is that like
when that dad last year or the guy who was helping the leak
(38:44):
said that machine was going to be too easy.
I just thought like, Oh, well, now I'm like, literally I just
might as well put headphones in for the rest of the game because
you you are not coming into thisconversation with any
understanding of the concepts around development.
And that, that part is frustrating because it's like,
you're a decision maker, you area decision maker.
(39:06):
So, just when you're thinking about what environments, you're
putting your kids in, and these stages and the ultimate goals
you're going for, it's just trying to create a system where
as many of their decision makersas possible.
Have some key understanding the Player Development, which is, I
think this is all. So Chris, that's not just a
young, it's not just a young kid.
No, I just want some specific circumstances.
(39:30):
Come up is, I definitely think there are times where I'm like,
I think we're focusing too much on stability on being able to
hit that drop away, six times ina row, like right, when do you
ever call it six times in a row at that spot.
So like maybe she has been able in training, she's mastered the
ability to throw 10 of them. In a garage, I've never
understood the ten in a row, butlike, you, she's mastered the
(39:51):
ability to throw 10 in the exactsame spot, but that will never
be asked her. So again, it could be used at a
foundational concept. So oftentimes in training will
say like, okay, get her to throwthree in a row.
At this spot. And then the next round, now
she's got to go one in the zone,two out of the zone and what
does out of the Zone look like is it getting someone to chase
low? Is it expanding the zone to our
(40:14):
arms side? A little bit?
Is it elevating? And so we are always trying to
then understand. Do you have the base of
stability? It's why we often use and not
often always use like fastball middle as a major training tool
because we're like, first throw five down and they know that's
your ultimate. Do you have a good foundation
base? Now, throw your three drops to
the same spot. Now very that drop, right?
(40:36):
So it's this progression. I also think another, that comes
up a lot. I do think we live at really
Elite levels training the like make the tasks to stable.
When the task is not only very the drop, it's very the drop.
Then throw something at someone's eyes, then they're a
change up from your arms side then move to your love side and
the variability is so high in the task and we don't ever like
(40:58):
get there that happens a lot at the college level and then the
other thing that happens is, youknow, command suffers big time.
And it always comes back on the pitching coaches.
And this is not a, like, this has nothing to do with pitching,
but then we'll like go back and look at video.
And this is a big learning pointfor me this year.
I thought to myself, okay, we'relooking at videos and literally
in their initial weight shift. Like, you see me collapse, which
(41:20):
is a huge indicator of loss of single leg stability.
And that's a major problem in the pitching motion.
And so I think that next year build into our like our schools
that do year-round Consulting isthat it's just like we do not
miss these like movement qualitychecks to see what they're
looking like stability wise at acertain, you know, because I
think basically that get outsidethe pitching motion that
(41:44):
Foundation of stability. We often when we see an athlete
struggling to make adjustments, throw too many balls, as I
mentioned earlier in this episode, then we like go to the
bullpen but we need again to know like when it's the loss of
stability is not just oh, go fixthe motion.
It's deeper than that. So I would say those are the two
(42:04):
major concepts of literally training stability, too much.
And number two, which is not understanding the root of the
loss of stability. Are the two worlds where this
like, stability variability relationship, really come into
play at the more Elite levels ofthe game.
So this is a concept that I think has huge implications.
(42:25):
First of all, Laura Star as you were talking earlier, Mike, this
topic is freaking rock star so and you explained it so
eloquently and my favorite things about you.
Anyway, so huge implications forthe Youth.
The young kids like Chris. And I are talking about these
nine year olds were wearing the corner like, damn.
It's like, you know, it's rough to watch.
(42:46):
It happens a lot at the high school level and it often is the
reason why they're stealing is getting stuck low, but there are
implications for this at the college level as well.
So I think that's important to understand that this is like a
cross age group to developmentalage chronological age, type of
concept movement, very ability to humans have, doesn't it's a
(43:08):
human concept. That doesn't mean after, you
know, your first period. So I think that's important,
exactly how it plays out. Looks different based on where
you are, but it applies to all Right?
It's always a good topic when I'm like taking notes.
So I just called notes of thingslike today.
(43:30):
Maybe next week we'll have some updates about regionals.
We were about to be in South allmedia for that that's about to
be so All right. Well, I hope you learned
something. I hope we made any sense and
until next time,
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