Unlocking Athletic Potential: How Tools, Feedback & Adaptation Shape Performance

In Episode 59 of the OGX Podcast, Krista Stoker, Ashley Sunshine, and Laura McDonald dive into the importance of using the right tools, assessments, and training strategies to support athlete development.

They break down how strength and conditioning impacts skill acquisition, why feedback loops are essential, and what coaches can do to adapt training environments for each individual athlete. The group also explores the disconnect in how hitting and pitching are often developed and how to bridge that gap through better coaching systems.

Key topics include:

• Designing feedback-driven environments

• Why assessments matter (and how to use them)

• Navigating failure in the training process

• Merging skill work with physical prep

• Adapting hitting & pitching training for growth

Whether you're working with youth athletes or advanced players, this episode offers insights you can apply right away.

#ogxpodcast #softballtraining #skilldevelopment #athletedevelopment #strengthandconditioning

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
All right, so we are back and just reminding everyone to
subscribe and like and do all the things that help the podcast
continue to get out there and make us keep coming back every
week. But we'll get jump right into
our topic. So we today are going to talk a
little bit about some of the implements we use in training

(00:26):
and why we use them. We obviously have talked about
identifying and making sure you're going after the right
things. So not sort of like guessing
with what you're going after with individual athletes, but
then getting a little bit more specifically today into how we
tackle those things and some of the things we've seen.
So I think just like as a, you know, an overarching theme, we

(00:49):
can get something from an assessment that says, OK, this
athlete does it say that they'reload enough and hitting and so
they don't rotate from the rightplaces and their hands sort of
compensate for that and they take over and it becomes this
like very handy type suite. That's something that we would
see in assessments kind of regularly with young athletes.
And so knowing that it's not as simple as you've seen from

(01:14):
training to say, OK, athlete A, this is what happens in your
assessment now just stop doing that.
So let's get on front, tell us and just use your regular bat
and regular softballs and just try to not do that.
It's obviously more complicated than than that, not more
complicated than that, but that's just not typically an

(01:35):
effective training tool. And the athlete really doesn't
make that change. And often if telling them that
they'll, they'll sort of like try to make that change and it
will be more negative. Like in hitting, we might see
that they sort of like force their hands back or they get
into a worse position because ofwhat you're telling them to do
from that standpoint. And So what we do and the way

(01:57):
that we tackle that is to give them tools that sort of guide
them more to that. And we talked about versions of
this, but it makes it either harder to accomplish the task.
They can feel the task easier with the implement they're using
and hitting. A lot of times we're sort of
like forcing bad feedback, meaning if they don't make that

(02:19):
change or they're not able to sort of rotate from the right
place, they're going to get jammed, have a mis hit and not
get the barrel to the ball. And the way that we can
accomplish that is by often withthe bats we put in their hands.
So using some overload bats, we use short bats, long bats,
different things, the angle we're coming at.
And that sort of like environment is really important.

(02:41):
And when we have athletes who are trying to make change
without those tools or environment, like I said, it's
very either very just difficult for them and they can't feel it
or they don't make the change. And then the sort of worst case
scenario, the the version of their interpretation of that
becomes something that's like maybe worse than what we're

(03:01):
trying to go for. So let's dive into that a little
bit today. I don't know if Ashley want to
give an example on the pitching side, but then we can maybe talk
about like kind of specific athletes of maybe not names, but
specific scenarios that we've tried to go after and maybe some
of the tools that we would use for that.
Yeah, sure. I think, you know, it's, I kind

(03:21):
of think of these concepts in a similar category, meaning
there's the world where someone jumps into training and doesn't
have an assessment. You could do that, especially if
you're jumping into training with us because we have such a
high level of education on even just looking at video, typically

(03:42):
why that path would look like that, why arm path would look
like that, especially if we get any data, if we see, you know,
the results of what's going on with the ball and we can make
them really, I mean, highly educated guesses on what needs
to happen with patterns. But most athletes obviously,
like if you take all of the softball athletes in the
country, most of them are not just doing training with us.

(04:04):
So the idea of not having an assessment and just jumping into
training and no one really knowing the route, like not only
maybe like setting the appropriate goals and
understanding the root of why you're you aren't able to do
those things. Like that's a that's just a
mess. Like if you're in that world,
which is most athletes, that's amess.

(04:24):
You are literally better off probably standing 6 inches from
the wall, banging your head up against it and like wishing
something will change in betweenevery bang, you know?
So I don't know, that's the visual that came to my head.
So that's a terrible process. That's a terrible process.
On the flip side, so waking everybody up this morning, you

(04:45):
know, a little laugh. On the flip side, getting
assessment information is amazing.
I mean, it's just like a, to me,it's an absolute no brainer.
You target exactly what you needto be able to, what your
performance goals are. The root of the issue going on
how to target it, but then goingout into this like empty space

(05:05):
like take this information to your standard traditional
hitting slash pitching coach is also a mess in our experience.
And we know this because we havemany cases where athletes will
come for an assessment. They go just back into their
typical world And this doesn't mean, Oh, no one out there knows
how to train things. No one out there knows how to

(05:26):
make change. That's not what I'm saying.
But the amounts, when we get into the sort of the details and
how we attack making change, theimplements we use, how we
prescribe those implements, I mean, it's highly calculated and
coming from a place of like years and years worth of
information, data, etcetera. So when they just go out to a

(05:47):
standard training approach, the way most lesson models are set
up, they come back for assessment and surprise,
surprise, everything's the same.And like, why wouldn't it be?
It's like sometimes the drills they do look better, right?
Like in the drill setting, maybethey're in the ball hard, but

(06:08):
they're it's the same. And so we run into things a lot,
and this has been something we've talked about a lot with
our remote athletes, especially the difference between hitting
and pitching. Because at least, you know, the
types of implements we utilize are often like different weights
of balls, softballs, plyos, etcetera.
In order to get the body into maybe it's trying to get the arm

(06:29):
into a better slot, create more length, create more rotation,
try to understand how to unravelthe arm a little bit faster, you
know, through deceleration, whatever it is that we're
targeting there. We prescribe a certain weight
and we do it in a very calculated way.
And so they're using these implements now our athletes have
to have plyos. So when it comes to pitching,
they're utilizing plyos. We are able to write exactly how

(06:50):
to use them. So is there power in just
utilizing plyos generally? Of course.
Is there so much more power in prescribing them appropriately
based on what you're trying to, you know, change or what you're
trying to tackle? Yes, of course.
So I think we run into this withhitting sometimes because
pitching is sort of simpler, right?
You can get some weighted softballs anywhere, hopefully

(07:12):
through US someday. But for now, you can get them
pretty much anywhere. You can get our plyos and then
all you need is a target and hitting.
I think is so interesting because so much of the
environment that we design and that we have seen athletes just
flourish and involves different types of bats, which are
obviously long bat, short bat, you know, overload bat, whatever

(07:33):
it is that you're giving them. It's your version of weighted
softball, you know, different bio weights and then the piece.
It's not just intensity, like throw it as go to a shorter
distance. Like this is all something an
athlete can manage. It's like, let's set up the
machine to then test your ability.

(07:54):
Like if this training implement were to be helping you tap into
a better pattern and get your barrel pack, you know, into a
better slot, etcetera, etcetera.Excuse my language if it's more
pitching lingo, but then we would see that like when we put
the ball here, when the machine is at this location, forget spin

(08:16):
for a second, but just like location wise, you should be
able to take the ball, right? You're able to say this is your
pattern. So this is the implement I'm
going to give you and this is the environment I'll set you up
in for you machine location, etcetera.
And the result we should be seeing is X when you're
accomplishing that. Well, body and arms or body?

(08:36):
And I think the perfect example.Of it.
I think the perfect example of that we go back to the scenario.
So like we see, OK, the way you're loading, we did an
assessment and the way you're loading is just all counter
rotation. There's no load of the sort of
middle of your body. And so as a result of that you
in order to not just fly open, you get into this early slot.

(08:59):
Basically what we'll see is likeelbows get stuck to the back
part of your body and then now that's sort of causing some
things. So that's something we would see
in an assessment. What what we could do and what
sort of like often in the past, how that would have been
hammered is like, let's just go on the tee and with your regular

(09:19):
bat and then let's not kind of rotate so much like let's just
get a better load position. And what we see is like that
just doesn't translate. That is not the skill.
They're never going to do it that slowly and also really you
don't know it's just because you're seeing them counter
rotate less that that is good what they're doing.

(09:41):
Like how is are they loading in the right place?
Like you're just still looking with your eyes off of the teeth.
And So what we like our college athletes this summer.
No one's going on the teeth They're doing.
If they're training with us, they're going right to short
machine and if they are remote, they're doing at least front
toss to start and going right into sort of like full intensity

(10:04):
off the full machine and their drills.
Because while they are trying tomake that change, we need
realistic feedback in an environment that's telling them
like, was that good or not? And it's not my eyeballs, it's
not Kaylee's eyeballs. That's not like, oh, that looked
better. You did less calendar.
It's like, OK, but then they could have still not loaded in
the right place or that could benot a great fix for her.

(10:26):
Like there has to be this adjustment where the the actual
task is telling you whether that's good or not and not just
some random like assessment of whether that's good.
And so we see that and hit forget that even implements of
bats and stuff, which I can get into, we see that all the time
where we see these like body things we don't like in the

(10:47):
swing and we're like, well, I know how I can fix it.
Just like put her on the tee andmake her just swing 4,000,000
times. So she didn't do that anymore.
And what we have seen is either people come back in assessments
and they are not improved. But I would say more commonly
with that they are worse. They are actively were if they
especially if they have come outof our environment or they have

(11:08):
trained a little bit for a while, they they go into those
environments and they get worse because they've just been fed
the wrong feedback over and over.
So the T is like such an obviousexample.
It's not to say, Oh my God, anyone that swings up the T is
like not doing the right thing. We have our young athletes still
sing up the T because they need some like positive feel in their

(11:30):
training. So there's a space for it.
But a college athlete doesn't, Ithink just doesn't.
And so you're just kind of wasting time in that scenario at
best and at worst. And often you're feeding some
things for that athlete that aren't great.
And then there's this idea of like, OK, now I'm in that space.

(11:50):
I let's I'm not on the tee. I'm in front sauce.
I'm in machine. I'm I'm the intensity is more
appropriate. The task is more appropriate
when an athlete just swings their regular bat from their
regular swing off of that environment.
It's pretty unlikely for most athletes that they can make.
Yeah, I'll tell. You exactly what's going to
happen. They're going to do the exact
same shit. Over and over.

(12:13):
And over and over and over. Here's the visual of 6 inches
from the wall. Your head?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And I think there's one percent,2% of athletes who could be in
that environment and make changethat does exist there.
There is Like I think of that. We wouldn't do it because it
just feels like now I have to stand on top of this athlete and

(12:35):
keep telling them what change tomake.
But like Katie Stewart can do some things like that.
There are some really high body aware athletes who also what I
would say is probably why Katie can do that is because she's
trained in this environment her whole entire life.
And so she knows so much about what the corrections to tap into
that now she can do this and sheprobably couldn't have done that

(12:56):
had she not come out of this training environment.
So I guess big asterisk for the fact that there are athletes
like that, but for most athletes, like they get what
you're saying. They can see the environment or
they can see what they're tryingto accomplish, but they need to
be fed, they need to be given feedback so much.
So the athlete we're talking about with that like, OK, they

(13:19):
sort of over counter rotate. They saw it really early, like
an environment we would give them would be angle in with a
short bat. And so now all of a sudden not,
you know, a ball is coming in towards me if I'm getting stuck
to the side of my body, like I can't get through it.
And so all I have to say to thatathlete then is like, get the

(13:40):
barrel to the ball, right, and give them feedback of when
they've got the barrel to the ball.
You can do that on the field. They can obviously see, you
know, when they drive the ball with hit tracks or Rep Sodo to
see what exit velocity is and where it goes.
Like you're just trying to make sure they know what it feels
like to get the barrel to the ball.
But otherwise, that's the only feedback that I need to give as
a coach. I might show some video loop so

(14:01):
they can see like when they don't get the barrel to the
ball, like what's going on and they are sort of correcting
themselves, but the environment is feeding that they don't need
to feel what's happening in thisone second or guess what change
to make. Like the ball is going to tell
them when things are good or bad.
And that environment is so needed.
It's really hard to create that without the tools to really give

(14:24):
them that feedback. And the change can happen so
much faster when you're. Interesting.
Laura, you go because I, I'm interested in what you're going
to say because you made a comment before you even started
this about like implements and conditioning and our like
comfort levels in certain environments with different
implements and not so you can go.
And then I had a thought that I wanted to share when you're
finished. The where I actually was wasn't

(14:46):
going to go there directly, but what I was going to say is that
Katie's ability, I think in Katie's example, she's a great
example of like, because she trained, it's a very high
likelihood that because she trained in an environment that
allowed her to develop problem solving and solution.
That the actual reason that at this point her career, she can
tap into verbal cues and that she can make that connection is

(15:09):
because her body awareness, her kinesthetic awareness has been
so heightened because she's beenable to problem solve.
Her body is not like fighting toher survival every single time
she goes through her her swing, because it knows it can adapt.
It's been trained to adapt. And so the what Ashley mentioned
is I always find myself saying this phrase when I'm explaining,
you know, the role of long batchshort bats and changing

(15:31):
implements and plyos is like, I mean, there are, you know,
strength and conditioning has a science and an art to it, as any
coaching practice does. And you will find professionals
in strength and conditioning whowho know this level of like, OK,
I speak this variable. I do this many reps for this
many weeks. It's like we change the weight,
we change the load, we progress,we regress, you change the

(15:53):
exercise And then, and I'll justuse softball is the example and
I'm going to use pitching. And then we've told pitchers
just throw a 7 oz ball and do the same thing all the time and
only do it ever at 100% intensity.
But you have to adapt and you'vegot to adapt.
But we've given you nothing to actually adapt to and no
implement to do that, no tool todo that.

(16:14):
The way we've we've sort of taught this like you've got to
adapt is we've just made pitching harder.
And in some cases I think hitting has been the opposite.
We've made hitting easier in order to make those adaptations.
It's like you hold the ball still or you only pitch at 100%
intensity or you only break it down in these pieces.
It's like we've tried to implement, sorry, we've tried to

(16:36):
introduce adaptation sort of like through fatigue or by
making the task a heck of a lot simpler and not actually a
realistic. And that's not, that's not to
start sport, that's across a lotof sports.
But I would argue that like Katie's ability now is because
of the environments that she trained in, because she has that
kinesthetic awareness. When you talk about a, a young
athlete needing to have, or our college athletes, let's just

(16:59):
take an athlete who doesn't haveKatie's body type awareness.
They need the external result. They need the HITREX data, the
Rep SODO data to tell them good or bad because they don't have
the body match yet. Their problem solving is like
they have to sort of skip over, I don't quite feel that, but the
result was good. And that's the match that we're
trying to make is I feel it. Oh, and the result was freaking

(17:22):
good, right? And hitters know that.
Pitchers know that They're like,can I swing one more time?
Can I throw one more? Because that was a bad one.
They feel it. But connecting it to the result
is what actually brings that feedback full circle for them.
And I, you know, I would argue with Katie.
It's the reason she taps into, you know, verbal adjustments so
well and why young kids can't. They just can't yet.

(17:43):
Yeah. Well, and it's crazy, I think of
I've had this conversation a loton the hitting side lately is
like, in addition to the fact that we make the test easy and
hitting, we also all hitting cages now.
And so the external feedback is horrible.
It's literally horrible. It is feeding a generation of
hitters who can only go right center because they think that's

(18:05):
the good result because that's all they can see.
We've literally created tunnel vision of what is a good hit.
And so I think we've, we've, youknow, the amazing part of the
fact that you can go to walk down the street and hit off the
machine and get in a cage. That's great.
We have so much more access to these places like it.
I think not until I was, I thinkI hit off like corridor machines

(18:28):
until I was like a senior in college, like the places like
that didn't exist when we were growing up.
You had to like go outside to like a mini golf place and hit
off a baseball machine, you know, And so that's amazing that
it exists. But it has come with this
giving, you know, when there is external cues, it's not great.
And it's why sometimes I'll be like, OK, try to pull.

(18:49):
We we talked about trying to pull it a lot.
Not bad. Pull it in the air, pull it for
power. And they even in the cage need
need to turn around and look at the hit tracks because they are
they don't know what it looks like to pull a ball because
they've hit in this like tunnel vision for so long.
And that part is crazy. I was just thinking when you
were talking about the sort of adaptations, we just James and I

(19:11):
were just talking, we had an athlete recently start who did
not great on the movement assessment, like failed some
stability things and is lifting with us and is like doing great
and lifting. And and he said something like,
it's kind of surprising that shefailed those things.
Maybe it's just because she hadn't did it done it before.
And I said, well, don't forget you're loading her now.

(19:34):
And I think it's just like, likewe will have athletes who fail a
lateral lunge in an assessment and when the weight on the
strength floor is being held in a certain place, they can
accomplish that movement better because they have been loaded in
a way that allows them to feel that movement better and
accomplish it. It's like that where it's all

(19:56):
the time in strength and conditioning where it slows.
Down. That's the other.
Thing down. Slows them down.
Right. And they can move better, they
can pass the 10 or it looks like, wait, why would this
athlete not be able to lateral lunch?
It's like, well, you've, you've loaded her in a way that she can
accomplish the test user. That's the point.
That's what we're doing every year.
And so now, yeah, now probably in the next time she goes into

(20:18):
the thing, if we're sort of likegiving her those things and
strength and conditioning, she will pass it over here when she
understands how to move it. But that we do those things all
the time. It's like you hold a weight and
strength and conditioning here versus down versus a bar versus
whatever because it feeds the athlete's ability to accomplish

(20:39):
that task appropriately. And then you can and create, you
know, progress it over time and and make them have to problem
solve the movement more by not having them do that thing that
that we do all the time. It's very much the same.
And then hitting, I think you just like, you know, we use the
smash balls a lot for the machine.

(21:01):
And sometimes I'll say like today, you have to finish with
real balls because you need to feel when it sucks like you, you
know, even that is a feel like you need to feel when it when it
jams you. And, and we want to be able to
do reps And so we can't do that all the time in hitting because
you'll just like destroy people's hands.

(21:21):
But sometimes you need to feel that.
And we've removed so much of that in hitting training.
You're not going to feel bad offthe tee.
You're not even going to feel bad at the front house.
You might not barrel it, but youdon't know that you didn't
barrel it because you didn't getjammed.
You didn't it didn't sting, it didn't it didn't give you this
negative sense of feedback. And then you're in a tiny cage

(21:42):
and you're like, that seemed fine.
And meanwhile, it's a grounder to the shortstop 20 miles an
hour or lower than what you normally hit it.
And you had no idea. And we fed you that feedback so
much. And so that's what the tools are
about. It's like, I'm going to put this
long bat in your hands. It's going to, if you are, you
know, casting and it's going to use like a general word people
use, you are casting or whatever, that long bat is going

(22:04):
to make that very hard for you to even do.
And then when you do what if youdo do it still and you sort of
like drag, you're going to, it'sgoing to feel really crappy.
You're going to hit that off theend of your bat or off the, you
know, the handle of the bat. It's not going to feel good.
And so we've created now a spacewhere you're getting so much
input to start to learn how to not feel that again.

(22:24):
And, and you're going to make adaptations based off of that.
And without that, it's just so hard to do.
So what we'll say to Ashley's point is like when our remote
athletes don't have training implements like a bat, at a
minimum, it's like, well, then we got to try to skew where your
training is mostly angle and andmachine.
So at least the intensity of thetraining is feeding you some

(22:47):
feedback. We can't do too much regular bat
teeth. Like that's just not a good
idea. Like we're not going to really
make adaptations that way. Even if we feel like we are or
we're like doing the drill, right, that's not going to
stick. And so we have to kind of create
those things. I think the importance is
understanding what adaptation means.
This is like the science. I do think skill training people

(23:09):
think adaptation is intent when you just tell them what they
need to do better and then they apply the intent to do it
better. That's how adaptations and
that's not what it looks like from a scientific lens to create
adaptations. Like think of a basic highway
brain, like highways to your body to tell it to move certain

(23:31):
ways. We have to retrain those
pathways. We have to retrain how the brain
communicates to the body to get the body to tap into different
movements. Like it's a science to it.
This is not just like once I think it, I'm good.
You have to really like create new pathways to the body.
And so when we slow an environment down, Laura, you
brought up, I was like, oh, we're on the same wavelength

(23:52):
today because I was going to saypeople sit in too low in an
environment with hitting, but it's the opposite of pitching
that Had that thought earlier and then you brought it up.
So we're to steal it. But you want to do both.
And here is why. This is the this is the really
key piece to creating those different pathways, those
different highways from brain tobody.
You have to bring it into an environment where you can start

(24:14):
establishing some of those new pathways.
This is feel right. This is like lowered the
intensity because that high intensity when the skill is is I
mean just going at 100. Mile lower the intensity but
keep it the task. Which is why keep it the task or
not drill AK drill. Where that's we never even get

(24:35):
in that position. So keep the task, but lower the
intensity, OK, and then get the body so you can feel it at a
slightly reduced intensity, right?
You can feel your brain can understand that and then give
the implements where the body and the brain now start to
understand like, oh, this is what it's supposed to do.

(24:56):
And now you create this environment where the the those
pathways are actually being created.
They are actually moving in the waves that you want them to at a
higher intensity. Now if you just leave it at
that, now we're in trouble because when you don't
eventually prioritize its ability to take those pathways

(25:19):
and get them to tap and do them quicker at a higher intensity,
then all of a sudden now it doesn't matter.
And that's where maybe it might look OK in a certain drill,
right? And so you have to understand,
it's at first about knowing whatit's supposed to look like
getting in an environment with the implements with the
appropriate intensity where the new pathways can be developed.

(25:41):
And then you have to challenge them in the real environment all
the time. And that's what training is,
right? It is what it is, absolutely.
And so I think like when you're in the like we're just trying to
build these new pathways and youjust lower intensity, but you
don't have any implements, it's probably not going to do it.
So now you're going to have a major issue.

(26:03):
You're not even establishing thepathways, the new pathways you
need. And so now when you go up to
high intensity, it's not going to work.
And so you need implement, you need the external piece, which
is intensity, it's machine, whatever that looks like, angle
in, angle out, whatever the details of the skill.
But you need the external environment to be set up
appropriately, the implement that internally gets your body

(26:25):
to sync up and move the way we're asking it to.
It's the collision vision of those two and then the ability
to understand its connectivity and I to the actual task at real
intensity. And I think it is so interesting
that how different the worlds ofhitting and pitching can be.
And so in hitting, even though Ido not think the hitting world,

(26:45):
you know how I feel about hitting coaches all across the
country. Let them come at me.
I think even the best hitting people out there from a pitching
lens, when I see what happens inthe player development space and
hitting, I'm like, I think hitting is way more off the mark
than people think it is. And I, I, I watch it all the
time. I don't understand this concept.

(27:07):
We group it in one big cluster. This whole team has a backpack
that looks like this. Everyone does X.
I'm sorry, The information that we have and what we know about
individuality of movement, there's no freaking way.
So anyway, side note and let youknow, can't wait for the trolls
to come after me on that one. However, the hitting world lives

(27:28):
in this, we're going to go down and like make them their swing
better. But right, I guarantee that the
majority of of coaches. So I think it's interesting.
Like, think about all the talk about Jerry Glasgow on the
machines he carts internationally, practically,
You know what I mean? Like Kerry?
Swims the shape swims across thePacific with him, right?

(27:49):
But exactly. But what I mean is that like the
reason that that was like such abig deal is because people don't
do that and it's actually not that big of a deal.
It's necessary. He was really trying to target
mimicking exactly what was goingto they were going to see right.
The translation piece. Now that he spends the whole

(28:09):
year in that world, it's it's pointless, right.
Well. Well, what I was going to say is
we have athletes, so we're in our college like, you know,
they're they're just starting their offseason summer program.
And So what we have found is we're trying, we're dancing this
line with our college hitters oflike how far removed can you get
from feedback, meaning a different bat in your hand, a

(28:31):
different star type, lower intensity, like some controlled
environment. How far removed can you be of
that and still have it translateat full?
And So what happens is sometimeswe just like like if I think of
a sort of like standard trainingsession, we do this sometimes
because it is eventually gets into the game and it's like you

(28:52):
don't get to in between be like,can I just have one where I do
hook them so I can be, you know,you have to be removed from the
feedback. So the closer to season we get,
the more sort of like traditional we follow and how we
eventually you're just at full intensity or whatever, but you
think of a training session how I would have done things in the

(29:12):
past. Like first we're going to do tea
and then we're going to do frontsauce and then we're going to do
machine. And what it and what we see for
our college athletes right now is like, OK, they'll go short
machine and you know, maybe the first week that was hard for
them. And now they're starting to
really crush that. Like the the feedback is really
good. They're translating a ton of

(29:32):
what they're trying to accomplish in that with those
bats, with the start types, withthe machine.
And then we get into full machine, full speed, you know, a
little bit more realistic and and we still have a bat in their
hand and they're going to do a start type and they're going to
go to angle and all that's good.We'll go, OK, now it's time.
We're going to go. We've already some of the
athletes are already starting todo like higher V lives, like
we're going to go fast, you know, like a higher intensity

(29:57):
fastball and you're going to be regular and the first five they
mash or they mash two of them and they can tap into an
adjustment really quick. The further removed we get from
that, like they're on swing 10, they're on swing 15.
The worst set session right now gets because they don't know how
to tap back into the field that that we did.
And so we are having to do this sort of like either kind of for

(30:20):
the athlete. They know like, let me just do a
hook on, let me grab a differentbat for a second, Let me just
like get back to the feel and then I'll go into full.
Some of our athletes are they'restarting to like cycle back to
the machine for a second and then coming back into it.
And your goal, as you said, is of course, we we don't want all
of that forever, although that would be what your warm up would

(30:40):
be. So it's not like you're right
are going to get that feedback. You can't, like I said, in the
middle of an at bat, you can't need that.
And so you want the adaptation to stick enough for it.
But that's why you're saying it's not just go throw the
machine on 65 and let everyone figure it out.
It's based on time of year of how much feedback that athlete

(31:01):
needs to feel. And of course, as you like what
we're saying about Katie, of course, your goal is that by
season, you've fed so much feedback that they can't.
You can say, hey, you know, get your bat less flat or whatever
it is like something triggers for them.
That's that is a little bit moreof a sort of internal cue

(31:21):
because they've had so much of that leading up to them.
They know what that means. They know actually how to tap
into that. And that's your goal.
Now. You can't be in that space all
year because then by the time, you know, it's not like and then
when season hits, we only give internal cues.
It's like you better in between that still be feeding the
movement solution so that they are still able to tap in.

(31:43):
Yeah, but that's just. Basic periodization when it to
programming, right, like that's basic, like, you know, like you
might be in season and you're going to hit twice during the
week and the first day might be a high cycling environment to
give that feedback and the next day is like boom, all sitting on
what you're going to see and that's just basic periodization.
I think what's interesting is that, you know, I as you know as

(32:03):
and as I've made pretty clear, Ithink hitting player development
in softball is a mess And and I don't think the hitting
community thinks it is a mess. I think they think they're
they're. Very like, well, mindset, very
group mindset, absolutely. Absolutely.
And I hear the way pitching coaches even talk about hitters
and prepping for certain for teams, I'm like, Nope, we're off
and they don't know it. I think the difference in

(32:23):
pitching is that pitching development is a mess in
softball, but we know it's a mess.
So at least we've got the awareness, you know, so I'll
take that. But I think it's a mess because
what we have spent our time on is like conditioning and
toughness. It's like because the workload
is so high and because we're it's conditioning and toughness
and we haven't understood the craft element of it, haven't

(32:45):
understood like how to actually develop the craft because we
never even been able to measure it right.
And so we didn't know if the craft was growing.
And so it's the opposite. We spend like, I know plenty of
pictures where I mean, even now we even know like, you know, we
do consulting with coaches, but we're we're not the coach of
that athlete. So they will sometimes bring

(33:07):
feedback, you know, the college setting and say, like, oh, but
the pitcher wants to do X&Y and her feedback was that it was too
much of this or too little of this.
And often times it's sitting in this sort of like old
traditional mindset. It might be June, their season's
not until February of next year,but the the much that they want
to be at high intensity right now, right?
And we have to work really hard to educate athletes on why they

(33:30):
have to be able to come down into a lower intensity to
actually impact the arm slot, toget their body and the ball and
their arm to sync up differently.
This happens all the time in baseball, like all the time in
baseball where they're throwing at different intensities and and
just in softball, it's not our culture.

(33:50):
Yeah, well, I was thinking, I watched a training session
yesterday, a pitching training session in house where an
athlete was just like, OK, we'regoing to try to accomplish back
spin. We're going to try to learn a
rise ball by throwing your two seam to a certain part of the
plate because of what your arm action does in that pitch.

(34:12):
And then when you think of goingto that location, that's going
to do it. And then eventually can we start
to throw that to different partsof the plate knowing the intent
we need of that. And I like watch the athlete,
like what am I doing? You know, there's some elements
of like, because the way we've talked, right as well, right?
Like the row arrives well, like get under it.
And so it's you're that is what like the implements and the

(34:36):
intent and the feedback of the video and the feedback of the
data. Like when they all come
together, it's just what intent do I need to feed the athlete
where it accomplishes that? And at first that's going to
just be from feedback like that athlete was literally like, I
don't really understand what I'mdoing.
Like, but I'm accomplishing the ball flight I want.
And so then it's like starting to teach them, OK, I felt it.

(34:59):
I felt, let me try something different.
And they start to learn, like wesaid, the internal cues on their
own and that's how they tap intoit.
I was going to say about hitting, we've said this before,
but I think the reason hitting it still looks ahead is because
a lot of our fields are 200. We swing with composite bats and
we're stronger than we've ever been.
And so it's just like when you have good strength and

(35:20):
conditioning and you run into the ball like we have athletes
who they, they might swing and miss a lot of training, but they
hit it 80 because they're strongand their bat is hot.
And I think that that's the reason, like hitting, the sort
of strength of the overall athlete has increased

(35:40):
tremendously over the past five years.
And the bats are so hot and the field hasn't gotten bigger.
And so I think that's just the reality of it.
There is good, there are better.There's better intent going into
hitting. You don't really see many teams
who are like, let's just pound the ball on the ground.
It's like most teams are like we're trying to hit the ball

(36:02):
hard and and then you have thesehigh level athletes that are in
it. Where it I think is struggling
is how do I What is the nuance of doing getting that power off
on a regular basis to. Differently measured your
athletes, though, which is what we do right, You would see like,

(36:25):
oh shit, they're actually not changing right, like I changed
their intent and we've got like,but they're they're swing
patterns are not, and that's why.
And it's not to say this is bad,This is this happens at every
level, but it's why it becomes so necessary for us to be
changing coaches and picking pitches and, and doing all of
those things. Because what allows A-Team often

(36:46):
to have success right now in softball is I better pick up
that change up. And if I do, I hit at 82 and I'm
going to absolutely match it. And I I just know where it's
going. And so you see a lot of
guessing, a lot of conversationsstill around sort of like
picking a pitch and knowing. And I think that makes sense.
That is the right approach. I'm not saying people shouldn't

(37:07):
be doing that, but I don't know that pitching is good enough
that we need to be doing that yet.
Sure. Like this isn't like you're
watching MLB and you're like, I better guess, right, Because
those two pitch like who the freak knows between those two
pitches? There are some pitchers that do
that at the highest level, but not a lot right now.
And so the fact that you're like, we need to pick a part of

(37:28):
the plate, it's like, do we, I don't like, is that what we need
to do? But that's kind of how we've had
to approach it because we're, we're banking on the ethics,
just overall strength and hitting right now.
And that works. And it's, and it has to get away
with that. And you see high score, high
scoring games and you see all ofthis because the reality of like
you look at an Oklahoma hitter now compared to in 1998 and

(37:53):
they're giant. You know, they are strong and
they are going to if that ball is over the plate and they have
that weapon in their hands, theyare going to match that ball.
And that's just the reality. And I don't I don't know if I
think that will run out eventually.
And I think the game always is, is windshield wiping between,
you know, there will be conversations of do we need to

(38:14):
change the bats? Do we need to change the ball?
Like do we want less of this? And as that, as the pitchers are
getting smarter, like you're going to have this effect.
And have we attacked adjustability?
Have we attacked the individuality required in
hitting? Like I don't think so, not most
most cases. And we haven't really needed to
yet. And so it's like then you get
athletes who had success at at athlete, we get hitters who they

(38:38):
hit the ball really hard, they had success at certain levels
and they aren't getting put in the lineup or they're
inconsistent and they don't understand why.
And it's like, well, you didn't ever train any adjustability.
You just have one swing. It just isn't, it's not going to
work. And for whatever reason, your
teammate is able to be more adaptable in the swing, and not

(38:59):
because they've trained it probably, but just because they
are. And so that's what you have to
sort of spend your time doing. And hitting doesn't do that
well, I think. I mean, people hate Yeah, I, I
had to, we had a college ethic come in to check in yesterday
and I had her meeting with her before she came in and I had to
preface it, you know, I said like, just like I, I want to
make sure, you know, because shedoesn't have a great training

(39:23):
environment right now where she is, she's playing the league.
And I was like, I just want to make sure, you know, that like
when you come and train, it's probably going to feel really
crappy. Like you're going to fail a lot
and the environment is not goingto feel great.
And like, it's OK. Like we need, we need that.
We need to see it. But like we had to preface it
because for the most part, the way we train the athletes, like

(39:45):
it takes them a minute to like it and because it's so much
failure. And it's not like swinging miss
failure, but you're just not going to walk into OGX doors and
see people just absolutely matching all the time.
They're miss hitting a lot. They're, you know, they're
getting a lot of sort of bad feedback because that's what
we're trying to create. And it's that balance between
the two. But yeah, and it.

(40:06):
Looks so different and it looks so different.
It takes a lot of education. I was thinking another one for
pitching, like it's an intensityconcept, but like, you know,
another one I really run into. I like, I mean, I when I write a
program or when our coaches write a program, we put so much
middle in there, like middle fastballs.
And I don't care. I don't even care to ask.

(40:27):
Like, do you throw fastballs in games, which some pitchers do
and should and some don't think for whatever reason they have a
pitch that, you know, does something similar or better or
whatever. But it's irrelevant.
It's a training concept, right? And I will have athletes.
The same as pulling the ball. When I say pull the ball, people
are like, no, I don't want to pull the ball and.
It's a training concept and I have people like, well, I don't

(40:49):
even like to throw in the middleof training because I don't like
my mindset to ever be there. I'm like that literally makes no
sense. So I mean, I probably have to
have a conversation like that with like 10 * a year with
athletes where I'm like, that's let me explain to you right.
This is the idea of like manipulating the arm.
You have to establish the neutral stability of a pitch
first means stability of like the neutral.
Like think of a tree. That's the root of any pitch

(41:11):
you're going to throw is to be able to get your arm action to
go over and over and over neutral fastball with no break
intent to go down the middle. And now we manipulate.
So if you if you are ever tryingto train command, if you are
ever trying to train another pitch type to create break off
of something, you have to have afastball, A neutral fastball
straight down the middle built into your training plan.

(41:34):
Like this is a key piece in the pack, build the pathway, then
connect it to what you actually need to be doing.
It's a key piece. And so I think, you know, when
you don't educate on that. And most of the times when we
educate, and that's just one little example.
They're like, oh, OK, I understand.
But they just, it's such a mindset of like, this is what
training needs to be right? It's you know, someone the other

(41:56):
day was like, well, this was a college athlete.
She's like, you know, the volumeis a lot lower than what I what
I usually do. And so at the end I just like
threw a couple more pitches, just like feel it a little more.
And I was like, any chance you know what the like couple more
pitches was? And then she was like, it was
like, then she counted. It was like, I don't know,
remember between 35 and like 40 more pitches.

(42:17):
Like that's a lot. There's a couple more and I was
like, you know, she didn't know.She's like, I didn't know that I
thought I was. And I'm like, it's, it's this is
a training plan, right? Like every day you're going to
show back up and keep working because this is the, this is the
concept. They're like, we're trying to
create these new pathways from brain to body.
It does not happen in one day. You can't throw 40 extra high

(42:39):
intensity pitches and get those pathways because we have trained
athletes. Like as long as the intent is
there and you just try harder, that's the way to do it.
And that is not the science of training.
And when you don't? When you I think too, and
because we've said when you try harder, you can do it when
there's a bad result, a lot of times they're like, Nope, they
just disregard that. It's like, wait, wait, wait.

(42:59):
That's part of it. So like in right.
And I'll think like one of the things that happens all the time
is like we get our foot down early and we sort of disconnect
our swing and they are early with their body and they're late
with their barrel. So this is just like, and so
we're constantly a kind of common thing is teaching them to
be a little later with their body and what that feels like.

(43:19):
And so sometimes we'll say like literally be as late as you can
and they'll get like so jammed. And then even though we told
them that a tent, they're like, you could see them like
disregard that that was bad. It's like, though it wasn't
because it's part of the processof learning how to make these
adjustments. So it's like the same thing.
We often have the intent of pulling the ball in the air.

(43:40):
It you cannot do it without clean rotation.
It is a great training tool, butthat is so scary to people
because they they have been toldnot to pull the ball.
And also it's like, well, now I don't want to only pull the
ball. Now you're telling now I'm never
going to get to an outside pitch.
It's like that's not this is a training thing.
This is literally trying to makeadaptation by the intent you are

(44:02):
focused on and I think and hitting and I know I'm pitching
like they throw, you just see them, they like throw a ball on
the ground. They're like whoa.
And you just basically they're like, well, I just I want that
to be out of my brain. It's like, no, keep it in.
It's literally giving you feedback and the same thing.
Opinion of like all of these badhits.
The way you're going to have themost adaptation is absorb the

(44:23):
bad results, make an adjustment,you know, not just like want it
harder, but do something a little different.
Feel what that felt like. If you had a good result in the
next one, then like try to replicate that.
What did you feel in that? What was the intent in that?
What was the change that you did?
Can you replicate it at this intensity?
That's all you want to do. But I see that all the time and
hitting like there's a bad result.

(44:44):
You can see them almost activelywant to just like disregard it.
And it's like literally we are creating training environments
where you sometimes have bad results and they are part of
what you need to learn. They are.
In summary, reason #3432 why a standard hitting and pitching
lesson is garbage is because it is a single session, probably

(45:07):
not linked to programming, whereyou are never going to establish
these pathways. You're not going to make change
in a single session. Probably the training
environment does not support you.
It doesn't have the implements. It's not thoughtful in the way
where actual training like pathways, the adaptations can
actually even occur in the 1st place.
Forget the frequency and 3rd, it's just all result driven.

(45:29):
If the result goes where it's supposed to go, who cares?
Well, result and well let's be clear, it's a resultation of
it's result driven of like without data and so I would say.
Right, it's eyeball result. Yes, result, data result might
be fine if it's like you hit that ball 75, yeah, OK, great.

(45:50):
That's really good feedback. How did we hit that ball so hard
that time? And that is feedback.
But just like what what, you know, I think back to like
whatever, 10 years ago when you and I were giving this type of
lesson and someone like hit the ball right back at you and
you're like good. And it was like, was that good?
Is that what? We were going.
For, was that a good result? Was it?
Absolutely. Just celebrate.

(46:11):
You celebrate what you think looks good.
Subjective bias. Yeah, subjective bias.
And it's not linked to anything.So it's just.
And that's like that comments, not negative, like it's just our
eyeballs. We're all we are all about that.
Like when I Christy, you mentioned your example was like
Oklahoma big and strong, you know is like will that always
play probably right. But like we have, we have these.

(46:34):
Scenarios and strong kids so. Right.
That'll play. But we have we have these
scenarios, we definitely have these experiences.
I think as we sort of sit externally, I'll say from the
college game, from a coaching standpoint, internally from a
consulting standpoint where, youknow, if you watch coaches
sometimes have really early on success because what they bring

(46:54):
to a new team or you know, theirtheir thought process is just
it's a little different than maybe what that team has
experienced in the past and it'ssuccessful.
Could be hitting, could be pitching pick either 1.
And I just think like that is that's absolutely necessary,
like to come in and kind of shake up and disrupt and see

(47:15):
improvement. To me, the sticking point of
this concept of like adapt or die in coaching is if you keep
doing that, like where I see, I sort of see coaches kind of go
in the One Direction or the other is I'm never going to
adapt. And the, the thing that worked
for me as a coach to train my athletes in this way, to teach
them to do things this way. It worked for a long time, but

(47:38):
now and I, I just keep thinking like player development is the
evolution of the game, right? Because like pitching does this,
hitting does this, pitching doesthis.
We're constantly doing that. And so if you're, if you're
approach to pitching or hitting or anything else in the game is
I'm just going to do it the way that we've always done it and
I'm going to be unwilling to like step away from my truce and

(47:59):
you're getting hammered. Boy, I got to argue, man, it's
time to adapt or literally like you're just going to not have
success. And I think athletes have the
same thing. It's like the most common story
is I was, you know, I threw 60 at 14 and now I'm 18.
I don't throw any harder. And it's like, what were you
given to adapt to? You did strength and
conditioning for three months, one time a year in the

(48:21):
offseason, the offseason, you'veonly thrown A7 oz ball.
You've only swung a 34, drop 10.You know you've done it a
million. Times I had a sales.
Call with a pitcher this week who that I talked to the girl,
she's very mature. I enjoyed the conversation as
teenager, but she was like, you know, I've been with my pitching
coach for a while, and for threeyears I gained.

(48:41):
Over three years, I gained 10 mph.
And now I'm stuck. And I was like, you know, it's
the story we hear all the time. It's like, that was puberty.
Puberty. Great.
Yes. And that's awesome.
And now you're stuck where everyone else is stuck because
there's nothing changing in yourprogram.
There's no adaptations. There's no measurements.
And like, that's what happens toeveryone.
So it's like you. Yeah.

(49:01):
That's just the sort of nature of the game.
In summary again, and one more summary, one more fun.
Just pick up a ball or a regularbat, no?
And I think it's amazing. We have this incredible
assessment process and obviouslywe have lots of people that are
coming for our assessment, whichis amazing.
But it still kind of drives me nuts because I know that player
development is, it's not only it's not good as good as we do

(49:23):
it, it is horrible out in the rest of the world.
It just is the gap between how we handle training and player
development and the standard training environments out in the
country. It doesn't belong in the same
universe. And so there are so many people
who are coming for assessments and then they're like, we'll

(49:44):
check back in for their assessment.
Can you do that? Absolutely.
We'll see in 3-4 months. But there is some world where I
hope people are listening to this and realizing like what it
takes to actually make change what it takes.
The environment, the programming, the the information
you need. There is no way that that's what
do you feel like you're getting?And so I hope that as we're

(50:04):
starting to see more and more people that are opting out of
training because like, I have mypitching coach, I have my
hitting coach and they just keepcoming for these assessments.
Once a quarter, they start to like this awakening, right of
like, wait a second. That's not what I'm, you know,
like. For not coaches out there,
they're able to sort of for surewe're.
Trying to grow in that there arefor sure.
Yeah, which there are. So that's the sort of goal of

(50:25):
it. All right, well, until next
week, who knows what we'll talk about.
God speak to all. Us too, so good luck to
everyone.