Dearest Gentle Mayfairers,
It has been said that one must be careful what you wish for, especially when one tries to find a love match with the crème de la crème of our bon ton- the three Musketeers Bridgerton siblings- Anthony, Benedict and Colin Bridgerton.
Whether it be intimidating Viscount Anthony, or frivolously artistic Benedict, or sensitive to a fault Colin, they are a set of Bridgertons that have flaws, complex mindsets and equally unique love stories. We break down all of these and more in this episode. As we wind down on these series of episodes or rather minisodes, please use the comments to ask questions related to our bon ton, be it with the marriage mart, the rules of society, relationships besides the core Bridgerton love stories and even families beyond the Bridgertons that you find rather intriguing.
Stay tuned for the rest of the Bridgerton siblings next Wednesday!
Yours truly,
The Whistledowners
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Dearest gentle listeners, we arethe whistle Downers.
Like our predecessor Lady Whistle Down who breathed down
the necks of 1800s Mayfair society.
We are 4 headstrong women. On this podcast, we'll analyze
and discuss the complex and eyeball catching escapade that
is the hit Netflix show Bridgerton.
Join us as we delve deeply into the show's plots, themes,
(00:28):
characters, and more. Are you ready?
Let's begin. Hi, guys.
Hi, guys. Welcome, welcome.
We're the Whistledowners, and welcome to another #whistledown
(00:50):
Wednesday. I'm Joe once again and.
Rocks, this is. Spoiler and this is L.
Yeah. Sorry we.
Need to hydrate? Hydrate over here and.
What you wanted to say L? I'll say it later.
(01:14):
OK, we're very excited for this half of the episode because now
we're going to be talking about the Bridget and siblings, right
guys? It's going to be wild, right?
It's gonna be yeah, one health, right.
OK All right, before we begin, Ithink just a little note of
warning. There will be little spoilers
(01:36):
regarding the book and like bookplot notes, the show spoiler,
like show spoilers as well. And yeah, we're not going to go
into March of a deep dive with the with this episode, but but
don't rest assured we will be going deeper as we get through
our podcast. So don't worry about that.
(01:57):
Alright, let's begin, begin, begin, let's say.
So who do we start with? A.
Let's go alphabetically. Yeah.
Let's go alphabetically because,you know, we can do it on as
they did in Palmal with, you know, a little argument.
But let's go alphabetically first because Sharmas are not.
(02:19):
We don't. Have Palmal.
What do they call the mallets? Yes.
But Palmal is different. Yeah, yeah.
I will have the little, little pink one.
Thank you very much. Yes, yeah.
I do. I do.
So when I lose, I have a reason for that.
(02:41):
Do you? Have an.
Excuse. All right, let's begin with
Anthony. Bridget and I do not know his
middle name, but let's just assume he has a middle name.
All right, so let's. Yeah, the Viscount who loved
Kate, not me. Unfortunate.
As a sidebar note that I love Julia Quinn's like cheesy pun
(03:05):
titles and they're they all kindof seem like they're references
to like movies, right? Like the like the The Spy Who
Loved Me. James Bond, James.
Bond the Duke, and I the king and I yeah, the Duke and I is
like a king and I romancing Mr. Bridgerton is like, kind of
romancing Romancing the Stone, which was like a big movie
around the, you know, a little bit before she wrote.
(03:28):
To so. Yeah.
To start with love is to start with love with love.
It's like so useful, but I love it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. All right, let's begin.
So what was the thing that drew you to Anthony?
Like what was. His sideburns.
Sorry, I want to say clarify first and foremost.
(03:50):
Sideburns I'll welcome in this podcast.
Like, did I follow that? Yeah.
Did I follow that these, you know, leading guy material?
No. The guy thought it was
interesting and, you know, memorable, of course.
And I think this kind of, you know, Zipla exemplifies the
Antony as a whole in Season 1. Like, you don't necessarily vibe
(04:13):
with him, but, you know, you're going to have, you know, a blast
when he's on screen. Yeah, like, because yes, he
brings trouble. He brings, he brings trouble
even in Season 2, but you know you're going to be entertained
by him. Yeah, he's a hot mess, but he's
so fun to watch. Yeah.
(04:35):
I think, and I really like how he was, you know, treated as
season 1. Like people were like, this is
basically, you know, a villain like in Daphne's story.
And in season 2, people are like, Oh no, he's just very dumb
and I love it. He's him though.
And now they connect with him. Sorry, go Gojo.
(04:55):
That's hilarious. Yeah, no, those were great
points. Very unexpected because when I
heard sideburns I was like. What?
But. I love having the sideburns as a
metaphor. Yeah, that was unexpected.
Yeah, of course. Foreigner here.
(05:17):
I liked about Anthony was that he genuinely was very caring
towards his siblings like he did.
I think with even despite like he got a little blinded by
authority, which we will get into his flaws a little bit, but
I think he genuinely cared when you know that he was looking at
them and even like like wanting to be a brother, but he had that
(05:39):
little like paternal instincts within him.
So I can't wait to see him beinga father in Season 4.
So he really like when he's likereally effed up.
I'm saying effed up, I'm sorry. When he's really effed up with
Daphne, with Nigel Burbrook, he really takes it seriously.
(05:59):
And then he's genuinely, he's very protective and he's like
even with like with Eloise, withBenedict, it's like, you know,
go, just go. It's not it doesn't matter that
I paid to have you like, you know, into art school.
Just go and have your dream. And then having that marital
advice with Colin is like what'sgoing on?
And yeah, I can't wait to see him have like more moments,
(06:21):
especially with Eloise, I think in season, because I loved like
his moments in just so Philip with love.
OK, that's me. Go rocks on you.
Don't want? Oh, go, sorry.
I was like, there's one moment Ireally liked for season 1 or
season 2. I think it's season 2 when
Gregory came in and like just like asked Anthony about their
(06:44):
dad. And then the way Anthony just
soften and took the blame. He's like, no, your tutor
doesn't hate you. He's scared of me.
And I was just like, that momentwas just like, I think that like
really changed my perspective onAnthony because like, I knew he
cared for both his family. But then that moment is like,
oh, he just does it. He's trying to do what he thinks
(07:07):
is right, which is probably like, you know, not the best for
the individual sibling, but likehe's doing what he thought was
the best thing for the sibling. Yeah, definitely, yeah.
That's so true. I, I really love, there's two
things about Anthony I really love.
The first I think is that you dosee so much vulnerability in him
(07:30):
even when he is being the freaking worst.
Like, you know, you see those flickers of vulnerability and
Johnny Bailey plays it really well too when he's, you know,
when he's going toe to toe with the Violet over the stuff with
Daphne. Like you kind of during the
first season, as often as I was like, I want to punch this guy
(07:52):
in the face, I also felt sorry for him, you know, because you
do see that he's like, you understand his motivations for
kind of like being the way he is.
And then when he does have thosemoments of softness and care
like those, those did give me a different perspective, you know,
on him is like he's not trying to be.
He's never been a bad guy. He is a good guy.
He has a strong sense of honor, all of these things.
(08:15):
He doesn't always 100% live up to that, but he sincerely holds
those beliefs and he does sincerely care for his family.
And I think like those things dohow much he how deeply he feels
that and how much he cares, likereally do make me sympathetic to
him. And I think one thing I have in
common with Anthony is that I amI feel things like very I have
(08:36):
very he's actually very emotional, right?
Like he tries not to be. He tries to be this kind of like
starchy, perfect, like upstanding of I count, but he
kind of can't keep it in like his feelings get the better of
him. And I find that very relatable
personally, as somebody who can also be a hot mess express, I
think, yeah. So I found I actually loved,
(09:00):
even though he kind of was the villain in Daphne story and I
frequently was very mad at him, I really found Season 1 Anthony
quite entertaining. OK, so let's let's move on to
his flaws. I think we've we've spoken a
little bit when we were trying to describe him, but could I go
ahead with flaws? Because I think I have one one
(09:21):
thing is that he his back. I know people I know.
I think I don't know which one of you like Anthony and Sienna.
I don't want to. Hurt you guys.
That was me. That was me.
Yeah. I'm not saying they should have
been end game, like, at all. I love Kate.
I think she and Anthony are perfect for each other, but I
just thought that relationship was very like, compelling.
(09:41):
Yeah, it was. It was.
But I think one thing, that one thing that I like saw the flaws,
especially with Anthony, is likehis back and forth with Sienna.
It's like he would take by by seriously then kick Sienna out.
And then when he was feeling. Like it?
Like he was the best boy, Yeah. Yeah, I think he genuinely like
(10:05):
felt something. I think we'll get into it with
regarding these forbidden love relationships.
And I wanted to talk. I think it's more with Benedict
than with Anthony because I mean, in this season it is more
forbidden love than with Anthony.
But I think the fact that especially with anybody who goes
into the forbidden love territory, even with Elways, but
(10:26):
I won't talk too much about it. But I think this back and forth
and this kind of indecisiveness is, is really like troubling
because the fact is, is that he gets jealous when she's in the
audience with somebody else, then like kind of gets hurt and
like offended when she decides to be.
(10:48):
It feels like he's a bit offended when she.
Kind of like he owns her honestly.
Like it's really like, upsetting, I think.
That was. It was toxic.
With what he was doing with Daphne, because then at least
when, you know, when he kind of realizes what he's wrong, he
turns around and does something a little different.
But yeah, that that's what that's what I found the inherent
(11:10):
flaw like with him. So.
I'll pick up on that and say I think Anthony's.
My biggest problem with Anthony is that in Season 1 and in part
of Season 2 they really made himkind of like an avatar of the
patriarchy. Let me explain that like they
Anthony is the antagonist in Daphne story.
(11:31):
He is literally the villain in Santa Story because he is, I
think more than the other siblings, he is sort of bought
into the patriarchy and he is a little bit bought into the
social strictures of like their society.
He doesn't question them. He just tries to live up to
them, you know, And I think thatto me and they hurt him like
(11:54):
they you see in season 1 how like he is being hurt by the
patriarchy, but he sort of doesn't interrogate that as much
as some of the other kids do or doesn't rebel against it,
arguably because he can't, right?
Like he's the Viscount. He's in this position.
He doesn't really have the the luxury or privilege of being
able to do that. But you sort of don't see him
chief against those. Yeah.
(12:17):
You don't see him like chafe against the patriarchy.
You don't see him question it. You see him like parroted and,
and sort of like ratify it. And one of the the scene that
makes me the most angry at Anthony is like when he's with
Sienna right after they sleep together in the first, I think
it's the first episode. And he says, like, somebody has
to protect my sister's virtue. And she's like, Oh, all, you
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know, all women should be so lucky is to have somebody to
protect them or to be so carefulover their virtue.
And he's like, well, not all women are ladies.
And I'm like, bitch, like, I'm sorry.
Like I could have slapped, I could have slapped him in the
face. Honestly, like that made me
really mad, you know, because it's just a misogyny is like
what it is, right? And I kind of also don't think
(13:04):
that Anthony, we we see him understand that he hurt Sienna
and that he was, you know, yanking her chain basically,
like push and pull with her Q&A.OK, yeah.
And Spoiler for like, audience members can't see us.
But spoiler is basically like trying to communicate with me
(13:26):
through sign language right now.Do you want to jump in?
I'm so excited to discuss this. No, I just wanted to say that we
should probably remember some questions of viewers gave us
because some of them actually tie into these characters.
(13:47):
But I will just jump later when it's more.
I'm just going to say Anthony's the Gaslaw misogyny.
So, and I'm not sure that the show ever resolved that to my
satisfaction. We can get into that more in
season 2, but I think I would have liked to see a little more
explicitly dealing with that. With respect to Anthony, we sort
(14:10):
of are left to assume that he's like, no longer a misogynist.
But I've never been really like I, I, I wish that they had like,
dug into it a little bit more. Yeah, same.
Same actually. OK, so spoiler, do you want to
talk about like 1 flaw that you found with Anthony?
Anything. I think that you definitely
(14:31):
mentioned that he's very emotional and he doesn't want to
show it. And I think that the only, you
know, emotions he's willing to show is the ones who are, you
know, masculine. So he is going to be angry and
just burst into the room and being like, I hate this, this
and that. And you will do this and this
and that. And, you know, this is kind of
(14:54):
exemplified through the finale of Season 2 when he's hurting.
But instead of, you know, helpfully communicating it with
anyone, he just burst into room and it roasts everyone.
And I don't want to, you know, go into beef between ships.
But I find it interesting because in that scene, very
deliberately, he is portrayed as, you know, the one in wrong,
(15:18):
like the one who does things badly and you know, and others
are just confused by his behavior.
So it's interesting to see fandoms different interpretation
of the scene, because I'm not saying he says, you know
something that's you know that, you know, out of place, but he
definitely, you know, shouldn't be viewed as the one who you
(15:41):
know is spitting facts. So this is all I wanted to say
regarding Anthony's flaws from. A writer's perspective, like
regarding that scene, it just, Iwon't take too long, but I think
what is happening is that he's so consumed with anger at
himself that. Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, he's internalized all of that guilt and it externalizes
(16:05):
towards his siblings, like with things that he can't control
because now the servants have left, like servants have left.
And Louise is still having this thing about being, what was the
word that it was called political radical.
And Colin kind of took money behind his back.
(16:26):
He's kind of finding like thingsto pick a bone at and really
trying to make it worse than it then it actually is.
And then, you know, I think one thing that actually if you want
to just add a little thing, I just wish he had apologized
because we never see him apologize for that you.
Know yeah, there's like a cutscene.
I honestly do not mind. Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
I don't mind that either. Because I think we see why,
(16:49):
right? Like immediately after they
leave, he like breaks down in tears because he was actually
upset because he hasn't gone to see Kate, you know, like, so I
don't mind that he doesn't apologize.
There was like a cut scene in season 1 that I think what a
Barb had where like he does apologize to Colin.
I think that's like Sherlock in season, isn't it in season 2?
(17:12):
Oh, it's season. Season 2.
It's in season 2. Sorry.
Yeah, that. Whole thing sorry there are two
scenes do 1. You know, in 107 when he
apologizes to Colin, has this healthy moment with him, but he
actually apologizes even in Season 2, as Rocks was trying to
say, I'm so sorry and it was deleted.
And I understand why. This is just editing processes
and you want to flow the story better.
(17:35):
And I honestly, you know, did not mind.
I think Colin understands, too. He also says some bad things to
him. So yeah. 100% yeah.
I think that I think the fan wars over this stuff is like
kind of silly because yes, in all this building relationships,
like no one is like fully in thewrong.
No one is fully in the right. Like everybody has their
reasons. You know, I also thought like
(17:55):
Anthony in season 1 when he is like and then I'm going to move
on from this, but I just find Anthony and Colin very
interesting together. They'll be you know what, maybe
I'll save this for the sibling duo.
That's what I'm. Going to do Yeah.
I just want to add, sorry, can Ijust add something to Joe and
rocks about Sienna and Anthony? Like this is my view.
(18:17):
Like I think he did genuinely like Sienna and how he handle
it. I think it's not it's the it's
the time and the class. And like he obviously is like,
oh, I like this woman, but she'snot going to be my wife.
She's going to be my mistress because she's not of the time.
She's not aristocracy. I'm not going to marry her.
But that doesn't mean she doesn't like her.
But like, I just think how we handle it was really wrong.
(18:39):
She found someone who's going totake care of her, like
regardless of the feelings. And then she like she moved on.
Like, yeah, even the no matter how because she needed that.
Like that's his reality of the time.
She needed man to take care of him and he wasn't willing to
step up and. I mean they both.
Found I think have their own story but like that's a huge
flaw in which like he positions himself as higher even though he
(19:03):
likes her. Yeah, no, I genuinely think he,
like, he did love Sienna, not like the true love that he like,
later finds with Kate, because this is a Romeo show.
But I think that like, I do think he loved Sienna.
I think he was like, very passionate about her.
And I also think that it was realistic that they couldn't end
up together. Like he would have to ruin his
whole family and he wasn't goingto do that.
(19:26):
But I just think that like with even within that those confines,
I think that he we are meant to believe watching the show that
he is treating her quite badly. And and he's treating Kate, you
know, Daphne quite badly. And he's treating his mother
quite badly. And like he he actually
apologizes for all of that at the end of season 1.
Like he has an arc where he recognizes that he was wrong,
(19:48):
right? Yeah.
OK. We'll, we'll just wrap this up
on Anthony. So what is your favorite sibling
dynamic with Anthony like? Which is the sibling dynamic you
would watch out for? I think it's Anthony and Colin
for me, like I think the trucks also set so I you know, I'm not
(20:09):
saying they're my favorite duo overall, but they're definitely
up there also highly Daphne and Anthony, of course, but go
ahead, guys. Elle, do you?
Want to go, I'm interested to seeing Anthony and Benedict just
because the whole Anthony was like, oh, buying like a coin
(20:32):
quote, buying a spot for him at the art school and then Benedict
not going and something that he wants.
But like I just want to see. I want them to play out that
dynamic more in Season 4, hopefully.
Who knows? I know I'm sure that will come
back. I hope it does.
And I also think like they're interesting because they're the
two that are like the most sort of like how you see Elle and
(20:54):
Colin as like peers. Benedict and Anthony are sort of
closer to being peers. And I think that that's an
interesting dynamic. So yeah.
I have to say something controversial.
Oh, sorry. Now they keep going wrong.
Keep going. Sorry.
Oh no, I was going to say like mine is obviously Anthony and
Colin. And I think that like they have
a very interesting dynamic in that Anthony is sort of in the
(21:19):
position of a father figure in some ways.
And I think they both resent it.Like neither of them wants this,
right? Like and and they it's so it's
so layered and interesting to mebecause in season 1, for
instance, you see when Anthony yells at Colin for getting
engaged to Marina, I'm like on Anthony side, I'm like, you are
(21:42):
being an idiot. You barely know her.
You know, like he's not wrong, but the way he got about it, he
doesn't understand Colin at all.And he's unintentionally so
hurtful to Colin by like, he he,you know, Colin is so sensitive
and so romantic. And Anthony is basically like, I
should have taken you to brothels, you know?
And you really see the ways thatthat continues to impact Colin
(22:04):
in Season 2 and Season 3. And.
Even 100% and even with Benedict, like both Colin and
Benedict have been sort of like a little bit damaged by their
relationship with Anthony because Anthony, even though he
meant well, it was like a bull in a China shop.
Both brothers, I think both, youknow, Benedict and Colin are a
(22:24):
bit more sensitive, like they'renot in that mold of I guess
Anthony is a bit more of like a in he embodies traditional
masculinity a little bit more. And I think like he doesn't
understand, he doesn't have a lot of emotional intelligence.
I think that's like a quality ofhis and I think he doesn't quite
understand the ways in which like his brother sort of like
(22:45):
need to be related to he does. He doesn't get it.
And so with the best of intentions, he really like
tramples their feelings. And I think you will see the
knock on effects of that. We saw Odd and Season 3 with
Colin and I think we'll see it perhaps in Season 4 with
Benedict. Yeah, visa be the art school
thing. I'm going to just cap it off it.
We've not seen it yet, which is why I'm excited to see it.
(23:07):
Like we've seen snippets of it in season twos.
But so my favorite dynamic is and will be Anthony and Eloise
because they are very much the same.
As much as if they're very dismissive of the opposite
gender. They kind of like put their
walls up and but in fact, when they find somebody who can
connect with, they've actually, they both had like a forbidden
(23:29):
love relationship of sorts with Anthony, with Sienna and Eloise,
with Theo. So it's nice to see some little
parallels with both those relationships that we won't get
into. But all right, because since we
ended with Benedict, because let's begin with Benedict.
So what do you guys love about Benedict and what do you guys
(23:50):
hate about him? Like let's let's do it both.
Together, if I can start, I think that Benedict is the
bridge in Bridgeton family. He is the link between Antony
and Violet. He's the link between Antony and
younger siblings, and he's the link between Violet and these
younger siblings. It's so interesting how he, you
(24:11):
know, grapples with this realitybecause I think that many people
do not grapple with the fact that, you know, he didn't lose
just his father, you know, back with Edmund and Anthony didn't
just became his Viscount. I think that he lost his teenage
brother because he they were close in age and suddenly 18
year old Anthony become Viscount, you know, with all
(24:32):
these responsibilities and 16 year old Benedict was just left
behind. And I hope that season 4 expands
upon this idea because I wonder,you know, because these two were
likely very close and they were kind of, you know, their
separate identity. So circling back to my favorite
moments, I've been I know that Benedict is fan favored, but I
(24:54):
think that, you know, I'm one ofthose people who I like him, but
you know, I'm not that invested in him.
But I hope season 4 expanse uponhim in a way which I find it
easier for me to connect to him because do not get me wrong, I
really like him. Like he's very entertaining and
his actor is like brilliant, butI do not feel connected to him
(25:16):
at this point. And I wonder whether you know
the you guys have it a bit different.
I do have to agree with you, spoiler.
I'm even when I was watching thepreview, I was still kind of not
able to like to sink into the fact that he's mainly material.
But I think I'm I'm excited to see like him like being a softer
lead and that it's not like it doesn't come as quickly as it
(25:40):
should be. I think we're waiting for the
latter half because I have a theory that within the Bridget
in, it's like one person does the most growth in the first
half and then the other person takes the growth route in the
second-half. And sometimes they do it
together. Yeah, exception in season 1, but
yeah, it's kind of that that became the pattern from season
(26:02):
onwards. So, yeah.
Interesting. And what was?
What do you? Think So what what I like about
Benedict. I like that you so open minded.
I think that's like a refreshing.
It's a little bit anachronistic,but it's like refreshing and and
there were of course, like bohemians at that time.
So maybe it's not so anachronistic.
I I love that he is like a conduit for us into the kind of
(26:25):
like Bohemian Bloomsbury art scene that the the milk knew
that they put him in, especiallyin season 1 was like really, I
love that I was AI always call myself like I was a pre
Raphaelite teen, like I was super into the pre Raphaelite
brotherhood and I spent it very much has those vibes.
(26:46):
And I think that he's kind, you know, like we see him be caring
towards his siblings. He's often like a source of
humor. So those are all things I like
about him. But I would say like the thing
that makes me and I feel the same way as you, spoiler and Joe
like I'm not quite as invested in Benedict.
(27:06):
Like so far to me, he's had realside character energy, you know,
which is fair enough. It hasn't been his season yet,
but I just don't think he's beendeveloped as well as Anthony and
Colin were in the lead up to histo their seasons.
Like I was already invested in them, you know, in before their
season started in a way that I don't think they, the writers
(27:28):
have done quite as good a job with Benedict.
And but I, I think that his, andI think part of the reason for
that is that like the, the flaw that they've given him is that
he's sort of like he's a little bit, he gives up easily, right?
Like he's kind of avoidant. He, he avoids conflict.
(27:50):
That's doesn't make for a super compelling leader of the
character because what's interesting is conflict, right?
So I think I'm interested to seehow they developed this in
season 4 because they're obviously going to give him a
lot of conflict. But, and I would say I also
think Benedict is a bit immature.
Like he's, you know, they're this really hit home to me when,
(28:12):
you know, obviously there's a big things like running away
from art school. The second some, you know, the
second he found out that he hadn't gotten in on his own
merits. Like you could still hang in
there, you know, or you could just paint on your own or
there's a lot of stuff you coulddo.
But he just gives right up. And I think that there was a
scene in Season 3 where the families all together and he's
(28:34):
like, you know, this 30 year old, he's supposed to be 30.
In the show. The actor's older, so it
actually makes it strike you even more.
But like, he's sitting on the couch fighting with Hyacinth and
Gregory over Macrons. And you're like, dude.
I love that scene, Sir. I love that scene.
Like be be be is relatable as possible.
(28:57):
Yeah, no, it's. I say this with a lot of
affection for Benedict and I think they'll they're going to
complicate him a lot in the 4th.Season.
Right in like the fourth season,but I think that that is kind of
his fault right now to me is that I'm like he is a little bit
he's a little bit of an immaturelike already, you know, party
boy and he he's going to need tobe we're going to really need
(29:20):
him to be challenged, you know, so.
Actually, I'm going to capitalize on that.
So I think one thing is that he can sense.
OK, I'll just start the one thing I.
Like sorry, can I just, I didn'tget a chance to say anything.
Can I say so sorry? And I think Benedict is your
favorite, right? Or one of your favorites.
No, not really. I don't really.
(29:40):
Sorry. No I fans he has.
A. Fans No, I just not on their
seat. No.
Can I? Sorry, can I just finish?
Go ahead. Go ahead, Sorry.
I don't. I just think there's something I
really don't like about him in season 3.
I think he gave really bad advice to the mantras because he
(30:01):
was like, oh, they're married. They don't count.
It's like, no, Benedict, you're in the time.
You should know it does count because if you read the book,
because I think it's like in Anthony's book, they're like,
like, oh, Anthony and Kate dance, one more dance, then it's
necessary. And that was in whistle down.
Like people do gossip. People do say stuff regardless
if you're married or not. So like, I don't think he should
(30:22):
have said that that that bothered me.
That still bothers me. And I was like, he should know
better. I.
Think he should? Yeah.
OK. And what did you like about him,
Ellen? Honestly I'm hoping season 4
will make me like him because he's a lot better in the book
than he is. How the how he's written in see
(30:44):
in this lead up seasons is not. Yeah, they felt.
Rounded and it just feels like he's he don't know what to do
with him and hoping season 4 they give him better traits.
And storyline, OK, I, I, I just,I didn't, I do not really like,
you know, what they develop intobecause I was really hoping that
there are some, you know, Benedict stands because he's
(31:04):
very popular. In fact, I think out of this.
So I will just say, you know, that I think, you know, I don't
like that he I don't mind that he's childish.
That's perfectly fine. You know, you can be a leading
material of this. I have no issue.
And I think the flight response is actually very interesting to
build upon because, you know, with Sophie in the way this, you
(31:26):
know, makes it interesting. And I wonder how we he will
react. Some people were frustrated with
him when, you know, he gave up on the art college.
But I wasn't because imagine if you're a very privileged person
the entire life and everything you've been served is because,
you know, you're by counts, son,brother, you have this, you
know, this was maybe the first time he felt like he, you know,
(31:50):
got somewhere on his own, first time in his life and he's almost
30 at this point. So when he found out that he
wasn't, you know, that it was Anthony's money or Anthony's
influence, like people are like,you're gonna just take it.
You know what? Why do you care?
I personally, you know, I understood completely and I
(32:12):
really like the contrast because, you know, you have
Eloise just beefing with Penelope, you know, about
whistle down ordeal. And then you have Anthony and
Benedict in this kind of almost emotional moment when Anthony is
like, you know, do what you want.
And at this point, Benedict is likely, you know, angry with
(32:33):
this Anthony's decision. But instead of confronting him
on telling him, you know, he doesn't, you know, agree with
him, he just backs off and it's like never mentioned again.
And I really like that moment because it, you know,
characterized him very well. I think.
So I always really enjoy these moments.
Yeah. I actually, I think that it's
like there are a lot of avoidantpeople in this world, like
(32:55):
conflict avoidant. So I think that that is actually
a very interesting characteristic to give someone.
And I think you're right. I think I'm being too hard on
Benedict and that it is actuallyrealistic that you can see that
he's very pained by the whole. He doesn't.
Benedict and Colin kind of sharethis sort of like insecurity
about their place in the world and their accomplishments since
(33:16):
they're untitled, you know, second and third sons, they
don't really have a purpose. And you see that he is actually
a talented artist. And you also see that he's like
so insecure about it that it's like that confirmation that he
didn't get, which is very relatable to anyone who's like
ever done art right or writing. Like I, I have 1/2 written
(33:39):
novel, you know, in my drawer right now.
So I kind of can relate to his like giving.
Up Awesome. So maybe that's why I'm so hard
on him. But like, he, you can see that
it that that was like very painful for him.
And so I think I wish that they had explored that conflict a bit
more because I think that the, you know, the writing for him in
(34:01):
Season 3 in particular wasn't like as good as it could have
been. But I am interested to see sort
of how they delve into his insecurity and stuff around his
art and how Sophie, who has not had all the privileges that he
has, is able to sort of challenge his worldview a little
bit in Season 4. Go on.
(34:21):
OK, I just want to just add another example.
I know a lot of like the most prominent example is him walking
away from his heart. I think also the fact is, is
that when you see 107, which is oceans apart, when Sir
Granville, I don't think we I think they part ways in that
episode. But there's a thing I fight
every day for to be with the love of my life.
(34:44):
And maybe that's something that you don't get like something
what he says, like maybe all youever do is talk.
And which is so funny because Eloise gets the same thing from
pen. All you do is talk.
And funnily enough, because I'm just going to put in my favorite
dynamic, genetic. And Eloise is the like the most
centric dynamic that we've seen so far.
(35:05):
And they like, consider themselves as the rebels of the
family because they don't want to get married after Daphne and
Andrew. Joe, Joe, your sound has cut
out. What?
Your sound cut out. I wasn't sure if I was the only
one. Can you hear me guys?
Now we can hear you, but your sound cut out after you said all
you ever do is talk. Right.
(35:26):
OK, So what I was saying is thatso it's funny because Benedict
and Eloise identify themselves as the rebels of the family and
you know, not wanting to be the next Daphne and you know,
Benedict wanting like being the spare for the Viscount.
But and funnily enough, they arelike they are considered as like
(35:50):
hypocrites for that rebel Ness because it's just the thing in
the medium rather than in action.
Anyway, that's all I wanted to say and that my and I think the
dynamic Benedict and Eloise is quite intriguing guys.
Favorite dynamic with Benedict? OK, I'm gonna I I actually, this
(36:13):
is just like showing how much ofA Colin fan I am.
But my favorite dynamic is also Benedict and Colin.
I'm sorry, I am. Like them?
I really like them man. Yeah, I love how Colin's like
Benedict's baby and he and you see a lot of Benedict's, like,
care and softness come out in his interactions with Colin when
he his affection for call, like when he like, hugs him and
(36:36):
squeezes his cheeks in Season 2,in Season 3, when he kisses the
top of his head, he's like the sibling in Season 3 who's like,
you know, Anthony kind of doesn't know what to do with the
whole situation. Bless, bless him.
Love you, Anthony. But but Benedict at least makes
an attempt to be like, how are you?
You know, like, how are you feeling?
(36:57):
How are you doing? And even though they don't end
up talking to each other becauseColin doesn't want to be
forthcoming, I feel you feel Benedict's love.
You know, like in those moments or like when Colin is talking
about how he and Penelope got together and you see Benedict go
like, oh, you know, I think thatthat is that sibling dynamic has
been used to kind of bring out the softer side of Benedict.
(37:19):
Somebody should at least say Benedict and Eloise because that
is obviously the fan favorite sibling.
Too low. Eloise spoiler El.
Spoiler. I don't like, honestly, like,
like I'm trying to avoid like any pairs of Colin just because
(37:40):
like, I know everyone's gonna like this.
No one is fine. I, I kind of really enjoy the
scene where he was with like Gregory and Hyanson.
And I feel like, yeah, they get ignored a lot.
They get sidelined a lot, even by the other siblings.
And I really like that interaction.
I start with them where, like, he could, like, I found that
very realistic because, like, mybrother and I are close and
(38:02):
agent, we're like both in our 30s now.
We still have those, like, we fight over really silly, like,
oh, who gets that last piece of trampoline?
And I think that's very realistic.
Like your siblings, it doesn't matter how old you are, it's
still like, the same. And I want hopefully they can
show more of that like in season4.
(38:23):
Yeah. OK, I will just pop in because
someone has to mention Benedict and L, so I will, I will, you
know, say that yes, I really enjoy him with Colin and I
really enjoy with him Anthony. But I think that this is very
important dynamic. When I was that deep diving into
the the dynamic, what I was, youknow, struck by was not the
(38:47):
necessary blind love because youknow what, it was kind of yeah,
they really love each other. But what interest me the time
when they actually had some of conflict when Al was frustrated
when you know, he can, you know,you can go there, shoot in the
sky. I'm stuck here.
(39:08):
And I really like the fact that Al actually brought it up
because it's a very underrated moment in my opinion.
Like people loved, you know, to put the compilations of them
being lovey dovey and I really love them.
But I think that this was very interesting and maybe kind of a
preview to Season 4 possibly. You know, I'm not saying I want
(39:30):
them to fight, but I want El to step out and say, hey, you know,
maybe get your shit together a little bit.
I wanted to just, you know, briefly touch upon Benedict
regarding Season 4. I don't envy writers because I
think that in the book he's not as much characterised as others.
(39:51):
And I also think that it was kind of hard due to the trope of
his book. You it's, you know, you don't
really do gradual story before laugh at first fine moment,
Cinderella moment and then forbidden laugh moment.
So I think that they did some tidbits.
(40:12):
I would also prefer, you know, do this and this and that.
But I also understood that I think that out of all siblings,
I think that he has the hardest build up possibly with Al.
So sorry, just, you know, dropping it here.
Joe, your favorite dynamic with Benedict?
I've already said it was Benedict.
I had said, oh, sorry. But I think that's a great point
(40:34):
about like his season. I do think like he's never heard
no from people like because and I think.
He flees before he hears. No, he's smart.
I do the same because. Sophie is like, I'm not going to
be a mistress, you know, in the book in an offer from gentlemen
and you kind of think like, what's wrong?
(40:54):
What's going on? Because the fact is like
everybody wants to be with him. So he's kind of takes relish in
that fact. So I think with Sophie going
against the tide is going to intrigue him.
And then again. I think Joe cut off again.
You're I'm so sorry. You're sound cut out again, Joe.
Yeah. I'm sorry, Joe.
(41:16):
Guys, can you hear? Me maybe?
Colin, I can hear you. We're at here 1947.
Right. OK.
Can we go on with Colin? All right, Yes.
Does anyone want to start? What they.
OK, we're gonna have to just go a little bit.
We're gonna have to do like and dislike together, yes?
(41:37):
But he's perfect. Joe Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know what's going on.
OK, so who wants to start with Colin?
What do you like and dislike about him?
I'll start. Sorry.
OK. As you know, Colin's my
favorite. I'm in love with him, so I think
(41:58):
he's perfect. But I will start with like, and
just like, I, I think the thing I love most about Colin is the
thing Penelope loves the most about him, which is that he's
really kind and caring and empathetic.
And we see this, you know, throughout the show.
The the moment that I think I really felt for him was in
(42:19):
season 1 when Cressida spills her drink on purpose on Penelope
and he gives Cressida, he kind of snubs Cressida to to go to
dance with Penelope, kind of to make the point to like stick up
for Penelope basically. And I think the reason it really
like touched my heart too was because he didn't even obviously
(42:40):
they were good friends, but he didn't he at least wasn't aware
that he wasn't in love with her yet, in my view, or he at least
wasn't aware that he was in lovewith her.
So it's not like, you know, it's, it's not like he's being
kind to her because he has the hot for her.
He was just being kind to her because he's kind, you know,
because he's like a kind person.And that is the thing that like
(43:03):
really makes me love Colin the most.
And I think like, we see him in the first season in particular,
be like really kind to the womenin his life.
Like he and he he's sort of likerespects their autonomy.
And he really, he's very like, empathetic to people's feelings.
So we see him ask Daphne whethershe's OK when she comes back,
(43:23):
like she's trying to help him with the Marina situation.
And he's like, are you well, like, are you OK?
Because he senses that she's upset.
We see him, you know, escorting his mother home when she's drunk
and having like a sweet. But that was on Anthony's
instruction. I will just add.
So you owe Anthony this moment because Anthony is like keep mom
busy and he was like on mission.Great.
(43:46):
Very on brand for. Me to give all the credit to
call out and then to Anthony. So last week that was fully on
brand. Sorry, sorry Anthony and Oh my
God, all this time. That was a really good point.
Spoiler literally for years I have forgotten that.
And I think like we even see oneof the other thing that made me
really love him is that he was like really kind to even though
(44:09):
he was angry with Marina and he was incredibly hurt, heartbroken
and betrayed for a man of that time in particular, he treated
her incredibly well. Like he didn't slut shame her.
He didn't, you know, he was upset, you know, rightfully so.
But he even went back in Season 2 and apologized to her, even
(44:29):
though he he absolutely did not owe her an apology and like, he
was the wrong party. But you can see that it eats
away at him that, you know, she was left in a really bad
situation and that he wants to make sure that she's all right.
You know, I don't think that's the only reason he goes to visit
her. I think he's also kind of hoping
she apologizes to him and like seeking some closure.
And. You know, trying to figure out
(44:51):
like, did she ever feel anythingfor me?
But like, I, I really appreciated like how gentlemen
like he is a true gentleman to his core.
And we see that again in Season 3 with Penelope, right?
Like, she betrays him in a pretty awful way, and he is
(45:12):
angry and he's hurt, but he still takes care of her, you
know? So I think, like, what she says,
like what I love about you is your kindness and empathy.
I'm like, yes, that is what I love about her.
And what did you dislike about him?
I think, I think the thing that I genuinely was like searching
(45:33):
my racking my brain for something I just like about
Colin. And I have to tell you, I tried
really hard and I have a hard time.
I'm having a hard time. But I think I think like his, I
won't say I dislike it about him, but I think like his flaw
obviously is like that He is is really insect.
He is not secure in himself. He's really insecure he's and we
(45:55):
see that that the worst thing that he has done, which was the
awful callous comment that he made about Penelope at the end
of season 2, which honestly, I didn't think was as it was
horrible, but I thought that like people made a bigger deal
it. Was hilarious.
I just like Maple. Hilarious, I mean.
I think I can understand, it's kind of said, I think we
(46:18):
understand that at that point he's very drunk.
But the fact of the matter is he's, I think he says it in such
a public space. Yeah.
And so scornfully. Yeah, it's a horrible thing.
That's a horrible thing to do toyour friend, even if I think he
was a little bit like protestingtoo much.
And the script actually kind of clarifies that he was, that
(46:38):
that's true, that he's like, confused about what they are and
that that's part of the reason. But honestly, like he threw her
under the bus to fit in with hislike, shitty friends.
And that is the thing that he did born of insecurity.
And that's kind of the start of his Season 3 arc.
And so we see the ways in which those that insecurity kind of
makes him act in shitty ways. And that and that also like
(47:01):
drives a lot of his behavior in the second-half of Season 3
where he feels he is like dealing with his own secure
insecurities about his writing and his purpose.
And that keeps him kind of apartfrom Penelope for longer than he
may otherwise have been. I find that to be like a very
relatable flaw because like we're maybe as a people pleaser
(47:22):
myself, like we're all and somebody who's like has been
insecure literally about my own writing.
Like I can, I can definitely relate to that.
But like no doubt that is his biggest flaw.
And I think that he gets a lot of like, I think that that flaw
actually makes Colin, like, unappealing to a lot of female
fans is what I've noticed is that they're like, well, he's
(47:43):
whiny or he's like insecure, like, he's not a real man.
There's a lot of like, internalized misogyny in the way
people talk about Colin. But I will say that, like, as
somebody who really likes soft, sensitive men like I, those
flaws actually just make him more relatable to me.
OK, Colin's perfect news at 11. Go OK.
(48:05):
I just hope. No, no, that's OK.
I'm not gonna answer because youactually you've said everything
I wanted to say. I just want to capitalize on
that last point. And if I go off like with my
microphone again, please let me know.
But I think what we there was it's either Vogue or Variety.
I don't know. It's something magazine with a
beat had written about like Collins arc and they call and it
(48:28):
was like male fragility. They've given it a term.
It's male fragility where can bequite supportive of women.
But when like a like a partner starts earning more like there's
a little bit of insecurity. It's kind of like a little
subconscious. It's not intentional, but it can
happen when he's when you've like partially absorbed
(48:50):
patriarchal ideologies and fun. That concept is actually also
explored in another film. Have you guys heard of Fair
Play? So yeah, that guy was awful
though in fair play. But I know I think that happened
to. Being that Colin actually like
worked on himself and overcame it.
(49:11):
That was an extreme example of that, but it kind of was a
shared thing. It was like, you know, the fact
is that it was something where had he talked about it?
Because he internalized that anger which exploded everywhere
in fair play. And Colin was like, you know, he
had to hide it just to protect Penelope and trying to alleviate
(49:34):
that insecurity with this hero complex, like trying to fix the
blackmails or trying to, you know, trying to convince, you
know, Penelope that, you know, not even like not in the thing.
It's, you know, give up the calland like on the excuse that the
Queen's after you. But but, and he does the
healthiest thing of trying to understand that she's always
(49:56):
been this way through the letters and trying to say, like
trying to acknowledge, trying tobe vulnerable with the fact
that, you know, I think in truth, I have been envious of
you. Yeah.
And I think he did the most healthiest way of acknowledging
that, like contextualizing that and getting it out of the way
and then realizing, you know, I'm, I can be my own unique way.
(50:21):
Like I, I can bring my own unique self.
I I'm not I cannot attach it. Yeah.
And that's like his arc, right, is like Penelope sort of like
they sort of heal each other in a way or like her, he needs, he
needs to really believe that he's like enough, just like just
the way he is and that. Yeah.
Yeah, I agree with all the points basically.
(50:43):
But one thing I really like about Colin was like season 2,
the wedding scene with like, youknow, the the wedding scene
where where he goes like, oh, like whatever makes I've got his
Exactly. You know, when they're talking
about like dreams and stuff. And then he's like, oh, whatever
stuck around. And I was like, I love that.
I love it when a guy picks at mybrain and it's like, you don't
(51:04):
see that very often. And I think like, that's that
one. It was just like, OK, like,
yeah, that's why Penn loves it, like.
Yeah. He sees more than just like like
he wants to know her intellectually, which is I think
one of the hottest things there can be 100%.
Spoiler do you want to add anything like that's not been
(51:26):
said so far about Collins so. I will try to keep it short.
What I wanted to say regarding the masculine and Colin in
season 3 is that many people arelike first 4 episodes and it you
know, stops because you know, this fake rakish boy is gone.
It is it does not stop. It's not just this because by
(51:49):
then point he's basically white knighting Pen.
I think that he, you know, is because he's insecure and
because he is so taken by the fact that chief is in love with
him, he doesn't believe it. So I think he gains the security
by being, you know, her protector and he gains, you
know, I am a Bridget and I can protect her.
I can be there for her. But of course, this is in
(52:11):
conflict of her actually being whistled down and actually, you
know, doing these things, but also being able to protect
herself maybe in very harsh, youknow, way.
So I think that I think this makes, you know, his, you know,
storyline regarding the masculinity more interesting for
me and more compelling for me because we see this, you know,
(52:32):
brooding hero who needs to learnto be emotional hundreds of
times. And I really like, you know,
what they did with Anthony. But for Colin, it was more, more
akin to our modern world. Like it was very modern for that
setting. And I think that his behavior
was very understandable, very small detail, just about what I
(52:54):
really like. I will, you know, not mention
poll in detail. I will mention his scene with
Elle in episode 5 when he, you know, sits her down and is like,
I'm very sorry. I'm in love with Ben.
I understand that this makes youuncomfortable.
I really like how he approaches this new situation.
He understands that they're beefing.
He doesn't know why. And he's just doing their his
(53:16):
best to be a mediator between them.
And you know, too, and understands that Elle loved Pen,
you know, as a friend for such along time.
And he understands this. You know, this is something he
can't destroy and won't challenge in any way.
So he approaches this very interestingly.
And I wanted to highlight this. I think it's a very underrated
moment. I love that moment.
(53:37):
I think the part of what is the part of what makes people who do
love Colin, obviously not everybody likes them, but I
think the part of, for me, the reason he's like such a fantasy
man is that he's like very emotionally intelligent and does
a lot of emotional labor. And I'm like, wow, that does not
exist in real life. A straight man who lives and I
(53:59):
will say my husband is like so kind.
I'm like not super traditionallymasculine and like a very
sensitive guy, but he is not theone doing the emotional labor in
our relationship. I've literally never had a
relationship with a straight manwhere he like did the emotional
labor. And so that is that very
unrealistic but incredibly appealing.
(54:21):
I will say one other. We live in a society, yeah.
One thing I like like about Colin and I like about Benedict
as well either is like, I wish the show delves more into this,
but Colin's like kind of an intellectual.
He's a traveler, he's a writer, he's like interested in the
world and I find that very appealing and I wish the show
had explored that actually a little bit more.
I feel like a lot of times the non romance aspects of the
(54:45):
characters, the show's. Very relational.
So like it's all about the family and the but like the
parts of the characters that kind of make them unique or
whatever, or like kind of under explored.
You know, we never see Anthony in parliament.
We never see Colin on his travels.
So so but I do think that like that's that is like part of why
(55:05):
I also like to write and travel.So I think like those things
make him kind of appealing to me.
I'm sorry, I just pictured just season 2 scene, random colon,
you know, in Greek beach being like, yeah, yeah, guys, you
know, I'm in Greece, like hi, I'm high.
Watching a blade of grass, yeah.Perfect guys, fits perfectly.
(55:29):
OK. So any OK.
So I think we had said Colin andEloise are one of our favorite
sibling dynamics. Is there any combo And we've
said Benedict and Colin and Anthony and Colin.
Is there any dynamic? Oh yes, L please go ahead.
Colin and Daphne I feel like because she hasn't been in
season 3 at all. Like I really wish they get the
(55:51):
actress back on because like sheadds to she's part of them and
she adds to it. And like the fact that in season
1 Daphne came home right away when like Mayor her problems
aside, but right away when Collins issue.
Clocked. Anthony and Kate and like, you
know, I wish she was in season 3because Colin, if you know the
book Colin, what she's told Colin about Penelope is like so
(56:13):
good. It's so good and I actually feel
like she would have been a greatpart.
I love the scene with Kate, but I feel like Daphne would
actually have been the best person to advise Colin in terms
of their plots echoing each other because she also felt
betrayed by something Simon hadn't told her.
And so like a lot of the conflict between her and Simon
was like about trust as well, you know, not and and so I think
(56:38):
like that was that would have been a really interesting
parallel. Yeah.
And I I love Daphne. So I I think the way those two
who are kind of the most empathetic of the siblings or
like the softest kind of. Yeah, I actually, that's
actually a great segue into. Or I love Daphne.
Questions by guys, can you hear me?
(56:58):
Yeah, yeah, I can hear you. OK, no, I thought, I thought my
mic went off, but I think Brave user Brave 3001 on our Q&A post
had talked about I think. So my question, I'm just
quoting, did DAF and Colin, who would have been around 9 and 10,
hold hell hold it down with the littles.
(57:19):
And this is presumably why Daphne is determined to be an
overachiever and Colin is a people pleaser.
Yeah, I think that's definitely,you know, what's, you know, came
into this. The the viewer user actually
also commented upon the fact that, you know, Anthony would
have these responsibilities and Benedict would be, you know,
(57:39):
down in the school. So it they would be the eldest,
you know, holding the family together.
And I definitely think that Colin has people pleasing, you
know, tendencies and definitely,definitely no became kind of I
have to be a role model for my sisters.
(58:01):
Dearest gentle Mayfares, we encountered something of a
conundrum in the making of this week's episode.
As we venture through the enchanting world of the
Bridgerton siblings, our conversation grew rather
extended. In our enthusiasm, we found
ourselves so thoroughly immersedin discussing the three eldest
Bridgerton brothers. The handsome and charming ABC is
There sometimes known that the episode stretched far longer
(58:23):
than we had intended. As much as we enjoy doing what
Violet Bridgerton believes womendo best, talk, we decided to
pause our conversation halfway through, with plans to continue
next week with the rest of our beloved siblings, DEF and G.
With that in mind, do TuneIn next week for the second-half of
our Bridgerton siblings discussion.
Until then, we remain as ever, your faithful companions and
(58:46):
gossip who is truly the whistle downwards.
Dearest gentle listeners, we arethe whistle Downers.
Like our predecessor Lady Whistle Down who breathed down
the necks of 1800s Mayfair society.
We are 4 headstrong women. On this podcast, we'll analyze
and discuss the complex and eyeball catching escapade that
is the hit Netflix show Bridgerton.
Join us as we delve deeply into the show's plots, themes,
(00:28):
characters, and more. Are you ready?
Let's begin. Hi, guys.
Hi, guys. Welcome, welcome.
We're the Whistledowners, and welcome to another #whistledown
(00:50):
Wednesday. I'm Joe once again and.
Rocks, this is. Spoiler and this is L.
Yeah. Sorry we.
Need to hydrate? Hydrate over here and.
What you wanted to say L? I'll say it later.
(01:14):
OK, we're very excited for this half of the episode because now
we're going to be talking about the Bridget and siblings, right
guys? It's going to be wild, right?
It's gonna be yeah, one health, right.
OK All right, before we begin, Ithink just a little note of
warning. There will be little spoilers
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regarding the book and like bookplot notes, the show spoiler,
like show spoilers as well. And yeah, we're not going to go
into March of a deep dive with the with this episode, but but
don't rest assured we will be going deeper as we get through
our podcast. So don't worry about that.
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Alright, let's begin, begin, begin, let's say.
So who do we start with? A.
Let's go alphabetically. Yeah.
Let's go alphabetically because,you know, we can do it on as
they did in Palmal with, you know, a little argument.
But let's go alphabetically first because Sharmas are not.
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We don't. Have Palmal.
What do they call the mallets? Yes.
But Palmal is different. Yeah, yeah.
I will have the little, little pink one.
Thank you very much. Yes, yeah.
I do. I do.
So when I lose, I have a reason for that.
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Do you? Have an.
Excuse. All right, let's begin with
Anthony. Bridget and I do not know his
middle name, but let's just assume he has a middle name.
All right, so let's. Yeah, the Viscount who loved
Kate, not me. Unfortunate.
As a sidebar note that I love Julia Quinn's like cheesy pun
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titles and they're they all kindof seem like they're references
to like movies, right? Like the like the The Spy Who
Loved Me. James Bond, James.
Bond the Duke, and I the king and I yeah, the Duke and I is
like a king and I romancing Mr. Bridgerton is like, kind of
romancing Romancing the Stone, which was like a big movie
around the, you know, a little bit before she wrote.
(03:28):
To so. Yeah.
To start with love is to start with love with love.
It's like so useful, but I love it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. All right, let's begin.
So what was the thing that drew you to Anthony?
Like what was. His sideburns.
Sorry, I want to say clarify first and foremost.
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Sideburns I'll welcome in this podcast.
Like, did I follow that? Yeah.
Did I follow that these, you know, leading guy material?
No. The guy thought it was
interesting and, you know, memorable, of course.
And I think this kind of, you know, Zipla exemplifies the
Antony as a whole in Season 1. Like, you don't necessarily vibe
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with him, but, you know, you're going to have, you know, a blast
when he's on screen. Yeah, like, because yes, he
brings trouble. He brings, he brings trouble
even in Season 2, but you know you're going to be entertained
by him. Yeah, he's a hot mess, but he's
so fun to watch. Yeah.
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I think, and I really like how he was, you know, treated as
season 1. Like people were like, this is
basically, you know, a villain like in Daphne's story.
And in season 2, people are like, Oh no, he's just very dumb
and I love it. He's him though.
And now they connect with him. Sorry, go Gojo.
(04:55):
That's hilarious. Yeah, no, those were great
points. Very unexpected because when I
heard sideburns I was like. What?
But. I love having the sideburns as a
metaphor. Yeah, that was unexpected.
Yeah, of course. Foreigner here.
(05:17):
I liked about Anthony was that he genuinely was very caring
towards his siblings like he did.
I think with even despite like he got a little blinded by
authority, which we will get into his flaws a little bit, but
I think he genuinely cared when you know that he was looking at
them and even like like wanting to be a brother, but he had that
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little like paternal instincts within him.
So I can't wait to see him beinga father in Season 4.
So he really like when he's likereally effed up.
I'm saying effed up, I'm sorry. When he's really effed up with
Daphne, with Nigel Burbrook, he really takes it seriously.
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And then he's genuinely, he's very protective and he's like
even with like with Eloise, withBenedict, it's like, you know,
go, just go. It's not it doesn't matter that
I paid to have you like, you know, into art school.
Just go and have your dream. And then having that marital
advice with Colin is like what'sgoing on?
And yeah, I can't wait to see him have like more moments,
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especially with Eloise, I think in season, because I loved like
his moments in just so Philip with love.
OK, that's me. Go rocks on you.
Don't want? Oh, go, sorry.
I was like, there's one moment Ireally liked for season 1 or
season 2. I think it's season 2 when
Gregory came in and like just like asked Anthony about their
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dad. And then the way Anthony just
soften and took the blame. He's like, no, your tutor
doesn't hate you. He's scared of me.
And I was just like, that momentwas just like, I think that like
really changed my perspective onAnthony because like, I knew he
cared for both his family. But then that moment is like,
oh, he just does it. He's trying to do what he thinks
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is right, which is probably like, you know, not the best for
the individual sibling, but likehe's doing what he thought was
the best thing for the sibling. Yeah, definitely, yeah.
That's so true. I, I really love, there's two
things about Anthony I really love.
The first I think is that you dosee so much vulnerability in him
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even when he is being the freaking worst.
Like, you know, you see those flickers of vulnerability and
Johnny Bailey plays it really well too when he's, you know,
when he's going toe to toe with the Violet over the stuff with
Daphne. Like you kind of during the
first season, as often as I was like, I want to punch this guy
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in the face, I also felt sorry for him, you know, because you
do see that he's like, you understand his motivations for
kind of like being the way he is.
And then when he does have thosemoments of softness and care
like those, those did give me a different perspective, you know,
on him is like he's not trying to be.
He's never been a bad guy. He is a good guy.
He has a strong sense of honor, all of these things.
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He doesn't always 100% live up to that, but he sincerely holds
those beliefs and he does sincerely care for his family.
And I think like those things dohow much he how deeply he feels
that and how much he cares, likereally do make me sympathetic to
him. And I think one thing I have in
common with Anthony is that I amI feel things like very I have
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very he's actually very emotional, right?
Like he tries not to be. He tries to be this kind of like
starchy, perfect, like upstanding of I count, but he
kind of can't keep it in like his feelings get the better of
him. And I find that very relatable
personally, as somebody who can also be a hot mess express, I
think, yeah. So I found I actually loved,
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even though he kind of was the villain in Daphne story and I
frequently was very mad at him, I really found Season 1 Anthony
quite entertaining. OK, so let's let's move on to
his flaws. I think we've we've spoken a
little bit when we were trying to describe him, but could I go
ahead with flaws? Because I think I have one one
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thing is that he his back. I know people I know.
I think I don't know which one of you like Anthony and Sienna.
I don't want to. Hurt you guys.
That was me. That was me.
Yeah. I'm not saying they should have
been end game, like, at all. I love Kate.
I think she and Anthony are perfect for each other, but I
just thought that relationship was very like, compelling.
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Yeah, it was. It was.
But I think one thing, that one thing that I like saw the flaws,
especially with Anthony, is likehis back and forth with Sienna.
It's like he would take by by seriously then kick Sienna out.
And then when he was feeling. Like it?
Like he was the best boy, Yeah. Yeah, I think he genuinely like
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felt something. I think we'll get into it with
regarding these forbidden love relationships.
And I wanted to talk. I think it's more with Benedict
than with Anthony because I mean, in this season it is more
forbidden love than with Anthony.
But I think the fact that especially with anybody who goes
into the forbidden love territory, even with Elways, but
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I won't talk too much about it. But I think this back and forth
and this kind of indecisiveness is, is really like troubling
because the fact is, is that he gets jealous when she's in the
audience with somebody else, then like kind of gets hurt and
like offended when she decides to be.
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It feels like he's a bit offended when she.
Kind of like he owns her honestly.
Like it's really like, upsetting, I think.
That was. It was toxic.
With what he was doing with Daphne, because then at least
when, you know, when he kind of realizes what he's wrong, he
turns around and does something a little different.
But yeah, that that's what that's what I found the inherent
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flaw like with him. So.
I'll pick up on that and say I think Anthony's.
My biggest problem with Anthony is that in Season 1 and in part
of Season 2 they really made himkind of like an avatar of the
patriarchy. Let me explain that like they
Anthony is the antagonist in Daphne story.
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He is literally the villain in Santa Story because he is, I
think more than the other siblings, he is sort of bought
into the patriarchy and he is a little bit bought into the
social strictures of like their society.
He doesn't question them. He just tries to live up to
them, you know, And I think thatto me and they hurt him like
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they you see in season 1 how like he is being hurt by the
patriarchy, but he sort of doesn't interrogate that as much
as some of the other kids do or doesn't rebel against it,
arguably because he can't, right?
Like he's the Viscount. He's in this position.
He doesn't really have the the luxury or privilege of being
able to do that. But you sort of don't see him
chief against those. Yeah.
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You don't see him like chafe against the patriarchy.
You don't see him question it. You see him like parroted and,
and sort of like ratify it. And one of the the scene that
makes me the most angry at Anthony is like when he's with
Sienna right after they sleep together in the first, I think
it's the first episode. And he says, like, somebody has
to protect my sister's virtue. And she's like, Oh, all, you
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know, all women should be so lucky is to have somebody to
protect them or to be so carefulover their virtue.
And he's like, well, not all women are ladies.
And I'm like, bitch, like, I'm sorry.
Like I could have slapped, I could have slapped him in the
face. Honestly, like that made me
really mad, you know, because it's just a misogyny is like
what it is, right? And I kind of also don't think
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that Anthony, we we see him understand that he hurt Sienna
and that he was, you know, yanking her chain basically,
like push and pull with her Q&A.OK, yeah.
And Spoiler for like, audience members can't see us.
But spoiler is basically like trying to communicate with me
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through sign language right now.Do you want to jump in?
I'm so excited to discuss this. No, I just wanted to say that we
should probably remember some questions of viewers gave us
because some of them actually tie into these characters.
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But I will just jump later when it's more.
I'm just going to say Anthony's the Gaslaw misogyny.
So, and I'm not sure that the show ever resolved that to my
satisfaction. We can get into that more in
season 2, but I think I would have liked to see a little more
explicitly dealing with that. With respect to Anthony, we sort
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of are left to assume that he's like, no longer a misogynist.
But I've never been really like I, I, I wish that they had like,
dug into it a little bit more. Yeah, same.
Same actually. OK, so spoiler, do you want to
talk about like 1 flaw that you found with Anthony?
Anything. I think that you definitely
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mentioned that he's very emotional and he doesn't want to
show it. And I think that the only, you
know, emotions he's willing to show is the ones who are, you
know, masculine. So he is going to be angry and
just burst into the room and being like, I hate this, this
and that. And you will do this and this
and that. And, you know, this is kind of
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exemplified through the finale of Season 2 when he's hurting.
But instead of, you know, helpfully communicating it with
anyone, he just burst into room and it roasts everyone.
And I don't want to, you know, go into beef between ships.
But I find it interesting because in that scene, very
deliberately, he is portrayed as, you know, the one in wrong,
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like the one who does things badly and you know, and others
are just confused by his behavior.
So it's interesting to see fandoms different interpretation
of the scene, because I'm not saying he says, you know
something that's you know that, you know, out of place, but he
definitely, you know, shouldn't be viewed as the one who you
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know is spitting facts. So this is all I wanted to say
regarding Anthony's flaws from. A writer's perspective, like
regarding that scene, it just, Iwon't take too long, but I think
what is happening is that he's so consumed with anger at
himself that. Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, he's internalized all of that guilt and it externalizes
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towards his siblings, like with things that he can't control
because now the servants have left, like servants have left.
And Louise is still having this thing about being, what was the
word that it was called political radical.
And Colin kind of took money behind his back.
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He's kind of finding like thingsto pick a bone at and really
trying to make it worse than it then it actually is.
And then, you know, I think one thing that actually if you want
to just add a little thing, I just wish he had apologized
because we never see him apologize for that you.
Know yeah, there's like a cutscene.
I honestly do not mind. Yeah, sorry, go ahead.
I don't mind that either. Because I think we see why,
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right? Like immediately after they
leave, he like breaks down in tears because he was actually
upset because he hasn't gone to see Kate, you know, like, so I
don't mind that he doesn't apologize.
There was like a cut scene in season 1 that I think what a
Barb had where like he does apologize to Colin.
I think that's like Sherlock in season, isn't it in season 2?
(17:12):
Oh, it's season. Season 2.
It's in season 2. Sorry.
Yeah, that. Whole thing sorry there are two
scenes do 1. You know, in 107 when he
apologizes to Colin, has this healthy moment with him, but he
actually apologizes even in Season 2, as Rocks was trying to
say, I'm so sorry and it was deleted.
And I understand why. This is just editing processes
and you want to flow the story better.
(17:35):
And I honestly, you know, did not mind.
I think Colin understands, too. He also says some bad things to
him. So yeah. 100% yeah.
I think that I think the fan wars over this stuff is like
kind of silly because yes, in all this building relationships,
like no one is like fully in thewrong.
No one is fully in the right. Like everybody has their
reasons. You know, I also thought like
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Anthony in season 1 when he is like and then I'm going to move
on from this, but I just find Anthony and Colin very
interesting together. They'll be you know what, maybe
I'll save this for the sibling duo.
That's what I'm. Going to do Yeah.
I just want to add, sorry, can Ijust add something to Joe and
rocks about Sienna and Anthony? Like this is my view.
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Like I think he did genuinely like Sienna and how he handle
it. I think it's not it's the it's
the time and the class. And like he obviously is like,
oh, I like this woman, but she'snot going to be my wife.
She's going to be my mistress because she's not of the time.
She's not aristocracy. I'm not going to marry her.
But that doesn't mean she doesn't like her.
But like, I just think how we handle it was really wrong.
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She found someone who's going totake care of her, like
regardless of the feelings. And then she like she moved on.
Like, yeah, even the no matter how because she needed that.
Like that's his reality of the time.
She needed man to take care of him and he wasn't willing to
step up and. I mean they both.
Found I think have their own story but like that's a huge
flaw in which like he positions himself as higher even though he
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likes her. Yeah, no, I genuinely think he,
like, he did love Sienna, not like the true love that he like,
later finds with Kate, because this is a Romeo show.
But I think that like, I do think he loved Sienna.
I think he was like, very passionate about her.
And I also think that it was realistic that they couldn't end
up together. Like he would have to ruin his
whole family and he wasn't goingto do that.
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But I just think that like with even within that those confines,
I think that he we are meant to believe watching the show that
he is treating her quite badly. And and he's treating Kate, you
know, Daphne quite badly. And he's treating his mother
quite badly. And like he he actually
apologizes for all of that at the end of season 1.
Like he has an arc where he recognizes that he was wrong,
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right? Yeah.
OK. We'll, we'll just wrap this up
on Anthony. So what is your favorite sibling
dynamic with Anthony like? Which is the sibling dynamic you
would watch out for? I think it's Anthony and Colin
for me, like I think the trucks also set so I you know, I'm not
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saying they're my favorite duo overall, but they're definitely
up there also highly Daphne and Anthony, of course, but go
ahead, guys. Elle, do you?
Want to go, I'm interested to seeing Anthony and Benedict just
because the whole Anthony was like, oh, buying like a coin
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quote, buying a spot for him at the art school and then Benedict
not going and something that he wants.
But like I just want to see. I want them to play out that
dynamic more in Season 4, hopefully.
Who knows? I know I'm sure that will come
back. I hope it does.
And I also think like they're interesting because they're the
two that are like the most sort of like how you see Elle and
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Colin as like peers. Benedict and Anthony are sort of
closer to being peers. And I think that that's an
interesting dynamic. So yeah.
I have to say something controversial.
Oh, sorry. Now they keep going wrong.
Keep going. Sorry.
Oh no, I was going to say like mine is obviously Anthony and
Colin. And I think that like they have
a very interesting dynamic in that Anthony is sort of in the
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position of a father figure in some ways.
And I think they both resent it.Like neither of them wants this,
right? Like and and they it's so it's
so layered and interesting to mebecause in season 1, for
instance, you see when Anthony yells at Colin for getting
engaged to Marina, I'm like on Anthony side, I'm like, you are
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being an idiot. You barely know her.
You know, like he's not wrong, but the way he got about it, he
doesn't understand Colin at all.And he's unintentionally so
hurtful to Colin by like, he he,you know, Colin is so sensitive
and so romantic. And Anthony is basically like, I
should have taken you to brothels, you know?
And you really see the ways thatthat continues to impact Colin
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in Season 2 and Season 3. And.
Even 100% and even with Benedict, like both Colin and
Benedict have been sort of like a little bit damaged by their
relationship with Anthony because Anthony, even though he
meant well, it was like a bull in a China shop.
Both brothers, I think both, youknow, Benedict and Colin are a
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bit more sensitive, like they'renot in that mold of I guess
Anthony is a bit more of like a in he embodies traditional
masculinity a little bit more. And I think like he doesn't
understand, he doesn't have a lot of emotional intelligence.
I think that's like a quality ofhis and I think he doesn't quite
understand the ways in which like his brother sort of like
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need to be related to he does. He doesn't get it.
And so with the best of intentions, he really like
tramples their feelings. And I think you will see the
knock on effects of that. We saw Odd and Season 3 with
Colin and I think we'll see it perhaps in Season 4 with
Benedict. Yeah, visa be the art school
thing. I'm going to just cap it off it.
We've not seen it yet, which is why I'm excited to see it.
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Like we've seen snippets of it in season twos.
But so my favorite dynamic is and will be Anthony and Eloise
because they are very much the same.
As much as if they're very dismissive of the opposite
gender. They kind of like put their
walls up and but in fact, when they find somebody who can
connect with, they've actually, they both had like a forbidden
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love relationship of sorts with Anthony, with Sienna and Eloise,
with Theo. So it's nice to see some little
parallels with both those relationships that we won't get
into. But all right, because since we
ended with Benedict, because let's begin with Benedict.
So what do you guys love about Benedict and what do you guys
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hate about him? Like let's let's do it both.
Together, if I can start, I think that Benedict is the
bridge in Bridgeton family. He is the link between Antony
and Violet. He's the link between Antony and
younger siblings, and he's the link between Violet and these
younger siblings. It's so interesting how he, you
(24:11):
know, grapples with this realitybecause I think that many people
do not grapple with the fact that, you know, he didn't lose
just his father, you know, back with Edmund and Anthony didn't
just became his Viscount. I think that he lost his teenage
brother because he they were close in age and suddenly 18
year old Anthony become Viscount, you know, with all
(24:32):
these responsibilities and 16 year old Benedict was just left
behind. And I hope that season 4 expands
upon this idea because I wonder,you know, because these two were
likely very close and they were kind of, you know, their
separate identity. So circling back to my favorite
moments, I've been I know that Benedict is fan favored, but I
(24:54):
think that, you know, I'm one ofthose people who I like him, but
you know, I'm not that invested in him.
But I hope season 4 expanse uponhim in a way which I find it
easier for me to connect to him because do not get me wrong, I
really like him. Like he's very entertaining and
his actor is like brilliant, butI do not feel connected to him
(25:16):
at this point. And I wonder whether you know
the you guys have it a bit different.
I do have to agree with you, spoiler.
I'm even when I was watching thepreview, I was still kind of not
able to like to sink into the fact that he's mainly material.
But I think I'm I'm excited to see like him like being a softer
lead and that it's not like it doesn't come as quickly as it
(25:40):
should be. I think we're waiting for the
latter half because I have a theory that within the Bridget
in, it's like one person does the most growth in the first
half and then the other person takes the growth route in the
second-half. And sometimes they do it
together. Yeah, exception in season 1, but
yeah, it's kind of that that became the pattern from season
(26:02):
onwards. So, yeah.
Interesting. And what was?
What do you? Think So what what I like about
Benedict. I like that you so open minded.
I think that's like a refreshing.
It's a little bit anachronistic,but it's like refreshing and and
there were of course, like bohemians at that time.
So maybe it's not so anachronistic.
I I love that he is like a conduit for us into the kind of
(26:25):
like Bohemian Bloomsbury art scene that the the milk knew
that they put him in, especiallyin season 1 was like really, I
love that I was AI always call myself like I was a pre
Raphaelite teen, like I was super into the pre Raphaelite
brotherhood and I spent it very much has those vibes.
(26:46):
And I think that he's kind, you know, like we see him be caring
towards his siblings. He's often like a source of
humor. So those are all things I like
about him. But I would say like the thing
that makes me and I feel the same way as you, spoiler and Joe
like I'm not quite as invested in Benedict.
(27:06):
Like so far to me, he's had realside character energy, you know,
which is fair enough. It hasn't been his season yet,
but I just don't think he's beendeveloped as well as Anthony and
Colin were in the lead up to histo their seasons.
Like I was already invested in them, you know, in before their
season started in a way that I don't think they, the writers
(27:28):
have done quite as good a job with Benedict.
And but I, I think that his, andI think part of the reason for
that is that like the, the flaw that they've given him is that
he's sort of like he's a little bit, he gives up easily, right?
Like he's kind of avoidant. He, he avoids conflict.
(27:50):
That's doesn't make for a super compelling leader of the
character because what's interesting is conflict, right?
So I think I'm interested to seehow they developed this in
season 4 because they're obviously going to give him a
lot of conflict. But, and I would say I also
think Benedict is a bit immature.
Like he's, you know, they're this really hit home to me when,
(28:12):
you know, obviously there's a big things like running away
from art school. The second some, you know, the
second he found out that he hadn't gotten in on his own
merits. Like you could still hang in
there, you know, or you could just paint on your own or
there's a lot of stuff you coulddo.
But he just gives right up. And I think that there was a
scene in Season 3 where the families all together and he's
(28:34):
like, you know, this 30 year old, he's supposed to be 30.
In the show. The actor's older, so it
actually makes it strike you even more.
But like, he's sitting on the couch fighting with Hyacinth and
Gregory over Macrons. And you're like, dude.
I love that scene, Sir. I love that scene.
Like be be be is relatable as possible.
(28:57):
Yeah, no, it's. I say this with a lot of
affection for Benedict and I think they'll they're going to
complicate him a lot in the 4th.Season.
Right in like the fourth season,but I think that that is kind of
his fault right now to me is that I'm like he is a little bit
he's a little bit of an immaturelike already, you know, party
boy and he he's going to need tobe we're going to really need
(29:20):
him to be challenged, you know, so.
Actually, I'm going to capitalize on that.
So I think one thing is that he can sense.
OK, I'll just start the one thing I.
Like sorry, can I just, I didn'tget a chance to say anything.
Can I say so sorry? And I think Benedict is your
favorite, right? Or one of your favorites.
No, not really. I don't really.
(29:40):
Sorry. No I fans he has.
A. Fans No, I just not on their
seat. No.
Can I? Sorry, can I just finish?
Go ahead. Go ahead, Sorry.
I don't. I just think there's something I
really don't like about him in season 3.
I think he gave really bad advice to the mantras because he
(30:01):
was like, oh, they're married. They don't count.
It's like, no, Benedict, you're in the time.
You should know it does count because if you read the book,
because I think it's like in Anthony's book, they're like,
like, oh, Anthony and Kate dance, one more dance, then it's
necessary. And that was in whistle down.
Like people do gossip. People do say stuff regardless
if you're married or not. So like, I don't think he should
(30:22):
have said that that that bothered me.
That still bothers me. And I was like, he should know
better. I.
Think he should? Yeah.
OK. And what did you like about him,
Ellen? Honestly I'm hoping season 4
will make me like him because he's a lot better in the book
than he is. How the how he's written in see
(30:44):
in this lead up seasons is not. Yeah, they felt.
Rounded and it just feels like he's he don't know what to do
with him and hoping season 4 they give him better traits.
And storyline, OK, I, I, I just,I didn't, I do not really like,
you know, what they develop intobecause I was really hoping that
there are some, you know, Benedict stands because he's
(31:04):
very popular. In fact, I think out of this.
So I will just say, you know, that I think, you know, I don't
like that he I don't mind that he's childish.
That's perfectly fine. You know, you can be a leading
material of this. I have no issue.
And I think the flight response is actually very interesting to
build upon because, you know, with Sophie in the way this, you
(31:26):
know, makes it interesting. And I wonder how we he will
react. Some people were frustrated with
him when, you know, he gave up on the art college.
But I wasn't because imagine if you're a very privileged person
the entire life and everything you've been served is because,
you know, you're by counts, son,brother, you have this, you
know, this was maybe the first time he felt like he, you know,
(31:50):
got somewhere on his own, first time in his life and he's almost
30 at this point. So when he found out that he
wasn't, you know, that it was Anthony's money or Anthony's
influence, like people are like,you're gonna just take it.
You know what? Why do you care?
I personally, you know, I understood completely and I
(32:12):
really like the contrast because, you know, you have
Eloise just beefing with Penelope, you know, about
whistle down ordeal. And then you have Anthony and
Benedict in this kind of almost emotional moment when Anthony is
like, you know, do what you want.
And at this point, Benedict is likely, you know, angry with
(32:33):
this Anthony's decision. But instead of confronting him
on telling him, you know, he doesn't, you know, agree with
him, he just backs off and it's like never mentioned again.
And I really like that moment because it, you know,
characterized him very well. I think.
So I always really enjoy these moments.
Yeah. I actually, I think that it's
like there are a lot of avoidantpeople in this world, like
(32:55):
conflict avoidant. So I think that that is actually
a very interesting characteristic to give someone.
And I think you're right. I think I'm being too hard on
Benedict and that it is actuallyrealistic that you can see that
he's very pained by the whole. He doesn't.
Benedict and Colin kind of sharethis sort of like insecurity
about their place in the world and their accomplishments since
(33:16):
they're untitled, you know, second and third sons, they
don't really have a purpose. And you see that he is actually
a talented artist. And you also see that he's like
so insecure about it that it's like that confirmation that he
didn't get, which is very relatable to anyone who's like
ever done art right or writing. Like I, I have 1/2 written
(33:39):
novel, you know, in my drawer right now.
So I kind of can relate to his like giving.
Up Awesome. So maybe that's why I'm so hard
on him. But like, he, you can see that
it that that was like very painful for him.
And so I think I wish that they had explored that conflict a bit
more because I think that the, you know, the writing for him in
(34:01):
Season 3 in particular wasn't like as good as it could have
been. But I am interested to see sort
of how they delve into his insecurity and stuff around his
art and how Sophie, who has not had all the privileges that he
has, is able to sort of challenge his worldview a little
bit in Season 4. Go on.
(34:21):
OK, I just want to just add another example.
I know a lot of like the most prominent example is him walking
away from his heart. I think also the fact is, is
that when you see 107, which is oceans apart, when Sir
Granville, I don't think we I think they part ways in that
episode. But there's a thing I fight
every day for to be with the love of my life.
(34:44):
And maybe that's something that you don't get like something
what he says, like maybe all youever do is talk.
And which is so funny because Eloise gets the same thing from
pen. All you do is talk.
And funnily enough, because I'm just going to put in my favorite
dynamic, genetic. And Eloise is the like the most
centric dynamic that we've seen so far.
(35:05):
And they like, consider themselves as the rebels of the
family because they don't want to get married after Daphne and
Andrew. Joe, Joe, your sound has cut
out. What?
Your sound cut out. I wasn't sure if I was the only
one. Can you hear me guys?
Now we can hear you, but your sound cut out after you said all
you ever do is talk. Right.
(35:26):
OK, So what I was saying is thatso it's funny because Benedict
and Eloise identify themselves as the rebels of the family and
you know, not wanting to be the next Daphne and you know,
Benedict wanting like being the spare for the Viscount.
But and funnily enough, they arelike they are considered as like
(35:50):
hypocrites for that rebel Ness because it's just the thing in
the medium rather than in action.
Anyway, that's all I wanted to say and that my and I think the
dynamic Benedict and Eloise is quite intriguing guys.
Favorite dynamic with Benedict? OK, I'm gonna I I actually, this
(36:13):
is just like showing how much ofA Colin fan I am.
But my favorite dynamic is also Benedict and Colin.
I'm sorry, I am. Like them?
I really like them man. Yeah, I love how Colin's like
Benedict's baby and he and you see a lot of Benedict's, like,
care and softness come out in his interactions with Colin when
he his affection for call, like when he like, hugs him and
(36:36):
squeezes his cheeks in Season 2,in Season 3, when he kisses the
top of his head, he's like the sibling in Season 3 who's like,
you know, Anthony kind of doesn't know what to do with the
whole situation. Bless, bless him.
Love you, Anthony. But but Benedict at least makes
an attempt to be like, how are you?
You know, like, how are you feeling?
(36:57):
How are you doing? And even though they don't end
up talking to each other becauseColin doesn't want to be
forthcoming, I feel you feel Benedict's love.
You know, like in those moments or like when Colin is talking
about how he and Penelope got together and you see Benedict go
like, oh, you know, I think thatthat is that sibling dynamic has
been used to kind of bring out the softer side of Benedict.
(37:19):
Somebody should at least say Benedict and Eloise because that
is obviously the fan favorite sibling.
Too low. Eloise spoiler El.
Spoiler. I don't like, honestly, like,
like I'm trying to avoid like any pairs of Colin just because
(37:40):
like, I know everyone's gonna like this.
No one is fine. I, I kind of really enjoy the
scene where he was with like Gregory and Hyanson.
And I feel like, yeah, they get ignored a lot.
They get sidelined a lot, even by the other siblings.
And I really like that interaction.
I start with them where, like, he could, like, I found that
very realistic because, like, mybrother and I are close and
(38:02):
agent, we're like both in our 30s now.
We still have those, like, we fight over really silly, like,
oh, who gets that last piece of trampoline?
And I think that's very realistic.
Like your siblings, it doesn't matter how old you are, it's
still like, the same. And I want hopefully they can
show more of that like in season4.
(38:23):
Yeah. OK, I will just pop in because
someone has to mention Benedict and L, so I will, I will, you
know, say that yes, I really enjoy him with Colin and I
really enjoy with him Anthony. But I think that this is very
important dynamic. When I was that deep diving into
the the dynamic, what I was, youknow, struck by was not the
(38:47):
necessary blind love because youknow what, it was kind of yeah,
they really love each other. But what interest me the time
when they actually had some of conflict when Al was frustrated
when you know, he can, you know,you can go there, shoot in the
sky. I'm stuck here.
(39:08):
And I really like the fact that Al actually brought it up
because it's a very underrated moment in my opinion.
Like people loved, you know, to put the compilations of them
being lovey dovey and I really love them.
But I think that this was very interesting and maybe kind of a
preview to Season 4 possibly. You know, I'm not saying I want
(39:30):
them to fight, but I want El to step out and say, hey, you know,
maybe get your shit together a little bit.
I wanted to just, you know, briefly touch upon Benedict
regarding Season 4. I don't envy writers because I
think that in the book he's not as much characterised as others.
(39:51):
And I also think that it was kind of hard due to the trope of
his book. You it's, you know, you don't
really do gradual story before laugh at first fine moment,
Cinderella moment and then forbidden laugh moment.
So I think that they did some tidbits.
(40:12):
I would also prefer, you know, do this and this and that.
But I also understood that I think that out of all siblings,
I think that he has the hardest build up possibly with Al.
So sorry, just, you know, dropping it here.
Joe, your favorite dynamic with Benedict?
I've already said it was Benedict.
I had said, oh, sorry. But I think that's a great point
(40:34):
about like his season. I do think like he's never heard
no from people like because and I think.
He flees before he hears. No, he's smart.
I do the same because. Sophie is like, I'm not going to
be a mistress, you know, in the book in an offer from gentlemen
and you kind of think like, what's wrong?
(40:54):
What's going on? Because the fact is like
everybody wants to be with him. So he's kind of takes relish in
that fact. So I think with Sophie going
against the tide is going to intrigue him.
And then again. I think Joe cut off again.
You're I'm so sorry. You're sound cut out again, Joe.
Yeah. I'm sorry, Joe.
(41:16):
Guys, can you hear? Me maybe?
Colin, I can hear you. We're at here 1947.
Right. OK.
Can we go on with Colin? All right, Yes.
Does anyone want to start? What they.
OK, we're gonna have to just go a little bit.
We're gonna have to do like and dislike together, yes?
(41:37):
But he's perfect. Joe Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know what's going on.
OK, so who wants to start with Colin?
What do you like and dislike about him?
I'll start. Sorry.
OK. As you know, Colin's my
favorite. I'm in love with him, so I think
(41:58):
he's perfect. But I will start with like, and
just like, I, I think the thing I love most about Colin is the
thing Penelope loves the most about him, which is that he's
really kind and caring and empathetic.
And we see this, you know, throughout the show.
The the moment that I think I really felt for him was in
(42:19):
season 1 when Cressida spills her drink on purpose on Penelope
and he gives Cressida, he kind of snubs Cressida to to go to
dance with Penelope, kind of to make the point to like stick up
for Penelope basically. And I think the reason it really
like touched my heart too was because he didn't even obviously
(42:40):
they were good friends, but he didn't he at least wasn't aware
that he wasn't in love with her yet, in my view, or he at least
wasn't aware that he was in lovewith her.
So it's not like, you know, it's, it's not like he's being
kind to her because he has the hot for her.
He was just being kind to her because he's kind, you know,
because he's like a kind person.And that is the thing that like
(43:03):
really makes me love Colin the most.
And I think like, we see him in the first season in particular,
be like really kind to the womenin his life.
Like he and he he's sort of likerespects their autonomy.
And he really, he's very like, empathetic to people's feelings.
So we see him ask Daphne whethershe's OK when she comes back,
(43:23):
like she's trying to help him with the Marina situation.
And he's like, are you well, like, are you OK?
Because he senses that she's upset.
We see him, you know, escorting his mother home when she's drunk
and having like a sweet. But that was on Anthony's
instruction. I will just add.
So you owe Anthony this moment because Anthony is like keep mom
busy and he was like on mission.Great.
(43:46):
Very on brand for. Me to give all the credit to
call out and then to Anthony. So last week that was fully on
brand. Sorry, sorry Anthony and Oh my
God, all this time. That was a really good point.
Spoiler literally for years I have forgotten that.
And I think like we even see oneof the other thing that made me
really love him is that he was like really kind to even though
(44:09):
he was angry with Marina and he was incredibly hurt, heartbroken
and betrayed for a man of that time in particular, he treated
her incredibly well. Like he didn't slut shame her.
He didn't, you know, he was upset, you know, rightfully so.
But he even went back in Season 2 and apologized to her, even
(44:29):
though he he absolutely did not owe her an apology and like, he
was the wrong party. But you can see that it eats
away at him that, you know, she was left in a really bad
situation and that he wants to make sure that she's all right.
You know, I don't think that's the only reason he goes to visit
her. I think he's also kind of hoping
she apologizes to him and like seeking some closure.
And. You know, trying to figure out
(44:51):
like, did she ever feel anythingfor me?
But like, I, I really appreciated like how gentlemen
like he is a true gentleman to his core.
And we see that again in Season 3 with Penelope, right?
Like, she betrays him in a pretty awful way, and he is
(45:12):
angry and he's hurt, but he still takes care of her, you
know? So I think, like, what she says,
like what I love about you is your kindness and empathy.
I'm like, yes, that is what I love about her.
And what did you dislike about him?
I think, I think the thing that I genuinely was like searching
(45:33):
my racking my brain for something I just like about
Colin. And I have to tell you, I tried
really hard and I have a hard time.
I'm having a hard time. But I think I think like his, I
won't say I dislike it about him, but I think like his flaw
obviously is like that He is is really insect.
He is not secure in himself. He's really insecure he's and we
(45:55):
see that that the worst thing that he has done, which was the
awful callous comment that he made about Penelope at the end
of season 2, which honestly, I didn't think was as it was
horrible, but I thought that like people made a bigger deal
it. Was hilarious.
I just like Maple. Hilarious, I mean.
I think I can understand, it's kind of said, I think we
(46:18):
understand that at that point he's very drunk.
But the fact of the matter is he's, I think he says it in such
a public space. Yeah.
And so scornfully. Yeah, it's a horrible thing.
That's a horrible thing to do toyour friend, even if I think he
was a little bit like protestingtoo much.
And the script actually kind of clarifies that he was, that
(46:38):
that's true, that he's like, confused about what they are and
that that's part of the reason. But honestly, like he threw her
under the bus to fit in with hislike, shitty friends.
And that is the thing that he did born of insecurity.
And that's kind of the start of his Season 3 arc.
And so we see the ways in which those that insecurity kind of
makes him act in shitty ways. And that and that also like
(47:01):
drives a lot of his behavior in the second-half of Season 3
where he feels he is like dealing with his own secure
insecurities about his writing and his purpose.
And that keeps him kind of apartfrom Penelope for longer than he
may otherwise have been. I find that to be like a very
relatable flaw because like we're maybe as a people pleaser
(47:22):
myself, like we're all and somebody who's like has been
insecure literally about my own writing.
Like I can, I can definitely relate to that.
But like no doubt that is his biggest flaw.
And I think that he gets a lot of like, I think that that flaw
actually makes Colin, like, unappealing to a lot of female
fans is what I've noticed is that they're like, well, he's
(47:43):
whiny or he's like insecure, like, he's not a real man.
There's a lot of like, internalized misogyny in the way
people talk about Colin. But I will say that, like, as
somebody who really likes soft, sensitive men like I, those
flaws actually just make him more relatable to me.
OK, Colin's perfect news at 11. Go OK.
(48:05):
I just hope. No, no, that's OK.
I'm not gonna answer because youactually you've said everything
I wanted to say. I just want to capitalize on
that last point. And if I go off like with my
microphone again, please let me know.
But I think what we there was it's either Vogue or Variety.
I don't know. It's something magazine with a
beat had written about like Collins arc and they call and it
(48:28):
was like male fragility. They've given it a term.
It's male fragility where can bequite supportive of women.
But when like a like a partner starts earning more like there's
a little bit of insecurity. It's kind of like a little
subconscious. It's not intentional, but it can
happen when he's when you've like partially absorbed
(48:50):
patriarchal ideologies and fun. That concept is actually also
explored in another film. Have you guys heard of Fair
Play? So yeah, that guy was awful
though in fair play. But I know I think that happened
to. Being that Colin actually like
worked on himself and overcame it.
(49:11):
That was an extreme example of that, but it kind of was a
shared thing. It was like, you know, the fact
is that it was something where had he talked about it?
Because he internalized that anger which exploded everywhere
in fair play. And Colin was like, you know, he
had to hide it just to protect Penelope and trying to alleviate
(49:34):
that insecurity with this hero complex, like trying to fix the
blackmails or trying to, you know, trying to convince, you
know, Penelope that, you know, not even like not in the thing.
It's, you know, give up the calland like on the excuse that the
Queen's after you. But but, and he does the
healthiest thing of trying to understand that she's always
(49:56):
been this way through the letters and trying to say, like
trying to acknowledge, trying tobe vulnerable with the fact
that, you know, I think in truth, I have been envious of
you. Yeah.
And I think he did the most healthiest way of acknowledging
that, like contextualizing that and getting it out of the way
and then realizing, you know, I'm, I can be my own unique way.
(50:21):
Like I, I can bring my own unique self.
I I'm not I cannot attach it. Yeah.
And that's like his arc, right, is like Penelope sort of like
they sort of heal each other in a way or like her, he needs, he
needs to really believe that he's like enough, just like just
the way he is and that. Yeah.
Yeah, I agree with all the points basically.
(50:43):
But one thing I really like about Colin was like season 2,
the wedding scene with like, youknow, the the wedding scene
where where he goes like, oh, like whatever makes I've got his
Exactly. You know, when they're talking
about like dreams and stuff. And then he's like, oh, whatever
stuck around. And I was like, I love that.
I love it when a guy picks at mybrain and it's like, you don't
(51:04):
see that very often. And I think like, that's that
one. It was just like, OK, like,
yeah, that's why Penn loves it, like.
Yeah. He sees more than just like like
he wants to know her intellectually, which is I think
one of the hottest things there can be 100%.
Spoiler do you want to add anything like that's not been
(51:26):
said so far about Collins so. I will try to keep it short.
What I wanted to say regarding the masculine and Colin in
season 3 is that many people arelike first 4 episodes and it you
know, stops because you know, this fake rakish boy is gone.
It is it does not stop. It's not just this because by
(51:49):
then point he's basically white knighting Pen.
I think that he, you know, is because he's insecure and
because he is so taken by the fact that chief is in love with
him, he doesn't believe it. So I think he gains the security
by being, you know, her protector and he gains, you
know, I am a Bridget and I can protect her.
I can be there for her. But of course, this is in
(52:11):
conflict of her actually being whistled down and actually, you
know, doing these things, but also being able to protect
herself maybe in very harsh, youknow, way.
So I think that I think this makes, you know, his, you know,
storyline regarding the masculinity more interesting for
me and more compelling for me because we see this, you know,
(52:32):
brooding hero who needs to learnto be emotional hundreds of
times. And I really like, you know,
what they did with Anthony. But for Colin, it was more, more
akin to our modern world. Like it was very modern for that
setting. And I think that his behavior
was very understandable, very small detail, just about what I
(52:54):
really like. I will, you know, not mention
poll in detail. I will mention his scene with
Elle in episode 5 when he, you know, sits her down and is like,
I'm very sorry. I'm in love with Ben.
I understand that this makes youuncomfortable.
I really like how he approaches this new situation.
He understands that they're beefing.
He doesn't know why. And he's just doing their his
(53:16):
best to be a mediator between them.
And you know, too, and understands that Elle loved Pen,
you know, as a friend for such along time.
And he understands this. You know, this is something he
can't destroy and won't challenge in any way.
So he approaches this very interestingly.
And I wanted to highlight this. I think it's a very underrated
moment. I love that moment.
(53:37):
I think the part of what is the part of what makes people who do
love Colin, obviously not everybody likes them, but I
think the part of, for me, the reason he's like such a fantasy
man is that he's like very emotionally intelligent and does
a lot of emotional labor. And I'm like, wow, that does not
exist in real life. A straight man who lives and I
(53:59):
will say my husband is like so kind.
I'm like not super traditionallymasculine and like a very
sensitive guy, but he is not theone doing the emotional labor in
our relationship. I've literally never had a
relationship with a straight manwhere he like did the emotional
labor. And so that is that very
unrealistic but incredibly appealing.
(54:21):
I will say one other. We live in a society, yeah.
One thing I like like about Colin and I like about Benedict
as well either is like, I wish the show delves more into this,
but Colin's like kind of an intellectual.
He's a traveler, he's a writer, he's like interested in the
world and I find that very appealing and I wish the show
had explored that actually a little bit more.
I feel like a lot of times the non romance aspects of the
(54:45):
characters, the show's. Very relational.
So like it's all about the family and the but like the
parts of the characters that kind of make them unique or
whatever, or like kind of under explored.
You know, we never see Anthony in parliament.
We never see Colin on his travels.
So so but I do think that like that's that is like part of why
(55:05):
I also like to write and travel.So I think like those things
make him kind of appealing to me.
I'm sorry, I just pictured just season 2 scene, random colon,
you know, in Greek beach being like, yeah, yeah, guys, you
know, I'm in Greece, like hi, I'm high.
Watching a blade of grass, yeah.Perfect guys, fits perfectly.
(55:29):
OK. So any OK.
So I think we had said Colin andEloise are one of our favorite
sibling dynamics. Is there any combo And we've
said Benedict and Colin and Anthony and Colin.
Is there any dynamic? Oh yes, L please go ahead.
Colin and Daphne I feel like because she hasn't been in
season 3 at all. Like I really wish they get the
(55:51):
actress back on because like sheadds to she's part of them and
she adds to it. And like the fact that in season
1 Daphne came home right away when like Mayor her problems
aside, but right away when Collins issue.
Clocked. Anthony and Kate and like, you
know, I wish she was in season 3because Colin, if you know the
book Colin, what she's told Colin about Penelope is like so
(56:13):
good. It's so good and I actually feel
like she would have been a greatpart.
I love the scene with Kate, but I feel like Daphne would
actually have been the best person to advise Colin in terms
of their plots echoing each other because she also felt
betrayed by something Simon hadn't told her.
And so like a lot of the conflict between her and Simon
was like about trust as well, you know, not and and so I think
(56:38):
like that was that would have been a really interesting
parallel. Yeah.
And I I love Daphne. So I I think the way those two
who are kind of the most empathetic of the siblings or
like the softest kind of. Yeah, I actually, that's
actually a great segue into. Or I love Daphne.
Questions by guys, can you hear me?
(56:58):
Yeah, yeah, I can hear you. OK, no, I thought, I thought my
mic went off, but I think Brave user Brave 3001 on our Q&A post
had talked about I think. So my question, I'm just
quoting, did DAF and Colin, who would have been around 9 and 10,
hold hell hold it down with the littles.
(57:19):
And this is presumably why Daphne is determined to be an
overachiever and Colin is a people pleaser.
Yeah, I think that's definitely,you know, what's, you know, came
into this. The the viewer user actually
also commented upon the fact that, you know, Anthony would
have these responsibilities and Benedict would be, you know,
(57:39):
down in the school. So it they would be the eldest,
you know, holding the family together.
And I definitely think that Colin has people pleasing, you
know, tendencies and definitely,definitely no became kind of I
have to be a role model for my sisters.
(58:01):
Dearest gentle Mayfares, we encountered something of a
conundrum in the making of this week's episode.
As we venture through the enchanting world of the
Bridgerton siblings, our conversation grew rather
extended. In our enthusiasm, we found
ourselves so thoroughly immersedin discussing the three eldest
Bridgerton brothers. The handsome and charming ABC is
There sometimes known that the episode stretched far longer
(58:23):
than we had intended. As much as we enjoy doing what
Violet Bridgerton believes womendo best, talk, we decided to
pause our conversation halfway through, with plans to continue
next week with the rest of our beloved siblings, DEF and G.
With that in mind, do TuneIn next week for the second-half of
our Bridgerton siblings discussion.
Until then, we remain as ever, your faithful companions and
(58:46):
gossip who is truly the whistle downwards.
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