September 4, 2025 • 43 mins
Jane, Heidi, and Etienne share their raw, unfiltered experiences with perimenopause and menopause, discussing the surprising symptoms that signaled their hormonal changes. The conversation tackles everything from unexpected libido surges to emotional volatility, urinary incontinence, and the misconceptions surrounding hormone replacement therapy.
- Perimenopause can cause an unexpected surge in libido, contrary to common beliefs about declining sex drive
- Women can still get pregnant during perimenopause and should continue birth control until fully in menopause
- Hot flashes, mood swings, and memory issues are common symptoms that can significantly impact quality of life
- Hormone levels affect various body systems, with low testosterone contributing to brain fog and mood issues
- Many women experience urinary incontinence due to estrogen depletion, which can improve or vanish with hormone therapy
- Medical misinformation about hormone replacement therapy has left many women suffering unnecessarily
- The book "Estrogen Matters" provides valuable information about hormonal health during menopause
Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com with your perimenopause and menopause stories, or find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.
Email us at info@thewomenareplotting.com, and find us on all the socials. Be safe and be excellent to each other.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Etienne (00:02):
Welcome listeners.
This is Women Are Plotting.
I'm Etienne Rose Olivier, andI'm here with my friends and
co-hosts, Heidi Willis and JaneGari.
Today's episode we'll betalking about menopause and
perimenopause and what symptomseach of us experienced.
That let us know that we werein either perimenopause or
(00:25):
menopause, and we always startour episodes with a fun fact,
and my fun fact for today'sepisode is that you can get
pregnant when you'reperimenopausal.
Do not believe that justbecause your periods are getting
irregular, that you can stopwhatever birth control you're on
.
You are only safe to stop birthcontrol when you're fully in
(00:45):
menopause, which is defined as12 consecutive months without a
period.
Okay, so, Heidi, what is yourfun fact for today?
Heidi (00:58):
I have two because I want to piggyback on that.
I actually went 12 monthswithout a period, but my levels
were still elevated.
Oh shit, yeah, she was likeyou're not in menopause and in
fact I started a period againand it's so frustrating.
So, yeah, so it's veryfrustrating to go 12 months and
(01:19):
then your levels are still notat what they're supposed to be.
So I've had this happen twicenow, where I've gone, you know,
11 months or 12 months and andyeah
Etienne (01:33):
oh my God
Heidi (01:33):
Not in menopause yet.
I can't believe you did ittwice.
So what was, what year did youfirst?
have this like
it was 2022
Etienne (01:43):
okay
Heidi (01:44):
went 11 months, started back up and was going for
another year or so or no.
It was till that october of2023.
And then I made it to octoberof last year and then, nope, my
levels were still elevated.
Etienne (02:04):
Oh my God
Heidi (02:05):
yeah, yeah.
So she put me on birth controlto try and get me leveled out
and now I'm starting hormonereplacement therapy.
Oh, so my fun fact, my real funfact, is did you know that your
testosterone gets low as well?
And they've started using thatin perimenopausal and menopausal
(02:30):
women, because it does affectyou, like your mood and sex
drive and all that.
And, yeah, so my pharmacist istrying to get me some because
it's considered off-label, usingit in women, which it's having
good effects on women and inthis phase of life.
But, yeah, the VA is giving hera lot of peck, so she's trying
(02:55):
to figure out a way to get methis medication I really need
and she's been able to prescribeit to other women veterans in
the past, so we don't knowwhat's happening now.
I have an idea why
Etienne (03:08):
oh God
Heidi (03:10):
why they're rejecting doctors prescribed.
Etienne (03:14):
Oh okay, let's not say why, but okay,
Heidi (03:16):
no, I'm not going to say why, but I have an idea
Etienne (03:18):
I can think of why.
Heidi (03:19):
Yeah.
If you think real hard you cankind of figure it out.
But anyway, hopefully I'll beon, you know, a low dose of
testosterone soon and that willhelp me with mood and brain fog
apparently like it really helpswith brain fog, but my levels
are really low and she washoping to get me this medication
(03:41):
to even me out.
Etienne (03:42):
Yeah, I guess our ovaries make estrogen,
progesterone and testosterone,because I'm actually on hormone
replacement therapy and they doall three, so I get pellets.
But I get pellets put it intomy body for estrogen and
testosterone and they don't havethat for progesterone.
So I have to use these littlelike gel cubes that I put in my
(04:06):
mouth and they have to dissolveslowly.
It's super annoying.
I mean it takes like 10, 15minutes.
It's not the end of the world,it's just, you know, a little
bit annoying.
I asked them why do they notmake these in pellet?
Just put that in me too, likewe're good, no more worries.
Oh, but they checked my levelsbefore they give me new pellets.
They checked them like twoweeks before I get new pellets
(04:28):
and one time they were like ohwell, let's bump up your
testosterone too.
And I'm like okay, cause Ididn't know what was going to
happen.
I think my sex drive increaseda little bit, which that's fine.
The sex drive part is fine.
But the bad part I broke out sobad around my mouth.
As soon as I could get them allgone, you know, a new batch
would pop up and I said, yeah,my face is breaking out.
(04:50):
And literally when I went inthere to get my blood drawn,
she's like oh well, they didbump your testosterone up, and
that around your mouth is whereyou break out if your
testosterone levels are too highas a woman.
So, yeah, I'm like, well, let'sjust turn me down just a little
bit then, because it's supposedto, I think, also help for
energy and sex drive, and Ididn't know that it helped for
(05:11):
brain frog because literally Igot all of my hormones at the
same time.
So I don't know which one likedid what as far as my symptoms.
But I think we should move on toJane and Jane's fun fact of
going off about me and mypellets or whatever.
Jane (05:27):
Well, my fun fact I think it's hard to find a fun fact
about none of these facts arefun
Heidi (05:31):
yeah
Jane (05:32):
but when I was doing research for this, I'm like
there are no fun facts.
I don't understand why at theend of this road, confetti
doesn't just launch out of yourvagina and like it's a surprise,
but no, instead we have to gothrough cruel puberty in reverse
(05:52):
.
It's total bullshit.
But my fun fact is that thehormonal chaos that happens in
your body during this time oflife causes memory lapses.
And that was when you guys weretalking about testosterone and
how that you're being prescribedthat to actually help with the
brain fog.
I did not know that that was asymptom of perimenopause and
menopause.
(06:12):
I just thought, you know youwalk into a room and you forget
why you went in there and Ithought am I having a premature
senior moment?
Because I can't.
Surely I'm not having a seniormoment yet.
And it's similar the way when Iwas pregnant I would have a
little bit of they called itmommy brain.
But I said, ok, this is many,many years later.
(06:33):
I can't still have mommy brain,but apparently that is part of
it.
And I just learned that I wastoday years old when I learned
that, and I just learned that Iwas today years old when I
learned that.
Etienne (06:46):
Wait, today, today's year old, that's awesome.
Jane (06:56):
I was today's years old when I learned that hormonal
chaos in your body during thistime of life can cause memory
issues.
But I'm happy that both of youhave sought some type of
remediation with hormonaltherapy and then that can help.
I'm not there yet where I wouldseek that out.
I for me, I just right now I'mI'm perimenopausal and if the
cleaner I keep my diet, the morethat I exercise that I I feel
(07:21):
like I can keep most of it underwraps.
But when I first realized thatsomething was happening to me I
was still, you know, I was in my40s and mid 40s and I was
experiencing what I would cometo find in other anecdotal
literature was referred to asthe surge, where I just had this
horror.
I was just so horny and it cameout of nowhere and it was the
(07:46):
opposite of what I had read wasgoing to happen to me.
they were like oh no, like theolder you get, you're just gonna
just gonna die.
You're just gonna dry up downthere and not be interested
anymore.
But first of all, I know thatthat's not true from other
people, that I know my friendgroup and even in my family, but
this was unusual, you know, Imean
(08:07):
a healthy sex drive, but thiswas next level, let me just put
it that way Next level and tothe point where it was annoying
because it was intrusivethoughts Thinking I would like
some now, and it was just.
It seemed to come out ofnowhere and I was also having
(08:27):
hot flashes.
They didn't coincide.
it wasn't like I was horny andtemperature hot all the same
time you're hot and hot no itwould be just random horniness
and a preoccupation withwatching May December romances
on Netflix and then at nighthaving hot flashes and really
(08:49):
having trouble sleeping becauseof them Not the dripping sweat
that I've heard other peoplehave.
Thankfully that hasn't happenedto me, but definitely hot
flashes have been real.
Etienne (08:58):
Well, how often were you experiencing them Like,
generally speaking, the hotflashes, not the horniness part?
Jane (09:05):
The horniness was nearly constant.
Etienne (09:08):
Like a teenage boy.
Jane (09:11):
A little bit felt like that and that lasted for almost
a year and then thankfully wentback to normal.
The hot flashes were coming, Iwould say, a couple times a day,
and then they would disappearfor weeks and I did notice that
they would subside the cleaner Iwould be with my diet and my
(09:31):
sleep hygiene and working out,and then they went away
altogether for a couple years.
But I am very sad to reportthat lately, in the past two
months, they have returned witha vengeance, and only at night,
though not during the day.
Before when they happened itwould be during the day.
Now this is only at night, and Ifeel like my husband and I have
(09:52):
done this weird role reversalwhere usually I was the one I
was wearing socks to bed,flannel pajamas, extra blankets,
and if it was cold outside Iwas really looking like I was
going into hibernation orsomething, making the bed into
this cocoon thing just on myside, because he is also a human
(10:13):
radiator and so he didn'treally need that.
But now that we're older, we'reswitching and now he needs the
extra blanket.
He has a weighted blanket onhis side of the bed that makes
it so hot.
And then I am literally just asnaked as I can get.
I can't be totally nakedbecause I have to wear this
apparatus on my back because Ihave sleep positional, sleep
(10:34):
apnea.
That's hilarious.
So I I look like I'm goingscuba diving, but this thing I
wear on my back so I can lay onmy side, so I have that on, but
otherwise I'm naked and I'm sohot and he's over there looking
snug as a bug in a rug, and sothat's my experience so far.
Etienne (10:54):
Oh wait, jane, I don't think the last time that we
shared a hotel room that you hadyour little dolphin fin thing,
did you
Jane (10:59):
no I had what I lovingly refer to
as bed balls.
It was like that tight shirtthat I had.
Etienne (11:04):
Oh yeah, the
Jane (11:05):
tennis balls.
You've seen my bed balls.
Etienne (11:07):
Yes
I've seen it.
So now you've upgraded to a different, it's not bed
balls anymore.
Jane (11:13):
No, because the bed balls.
I've started my body.
I think I used to them and Iwould still get to.
I would move just enough wherethe snoring would.
There would be somebreakthrough snoring.
So now I have this, you'll seeit.
(11:34):
It's hilarious.
Heidi (11:34):
You look like a dolphin though.
Jane (11:35):
Yeah, it's awesome
Etienne (11:36):
oh, that's fantastic.
But now your fun fact though,jane, about getting or not fun
fact.
But I guess when you first knewthat you were perimenopausal,
was the not just the hot flashes, but the increased sex drive.
Now, I didn't even put thisdown as something I was going to
talk about today, but I had thesame thing happen to me, and
mine happened when I was stillmarried and when I, you know, in
(11:56):
my marriage I had destroyed mysex drive because I wasn't
getting enough sex in my almostthe entirety of my marriage.
This is so stupid.
I was reading Twilight in aStarbucks and I don't know why I
would get horny at this.
But in the moment where he'swatching her sleep in the book,
(12:20):
I suddenly got so horny and thatwas the first inkling that
something was happening to meand I was like what is no, no,
no, why is this happening?
And I'm like, okay, I'm justgonna ignore it, I'm just gonna
ignore it.
But then people started talkingabout Fifty Shades of Grey and
I was like, hmm, maybe I want toread that.
And stupid me.
I actually got the whole seriesand started reading it and, oh
(12:44):
my God, it was so bad.
Again, I was stuck in aStarbucks.
I don't know what the heck Idid.
I was in Starbucks a lot and Iwas reading this.
I almost felt like I needed togo to the bathroom and be a
teenage boy and go rub one outin the bathroom.
And I was like no, no, I'm notdoing that, but I would always
(13:04):
go to bed before my husband atthe time and I always knew I had
a certain amount of time.
If I wanted to take care ofmyself, I could do that with my
50 Shades of Grey book,whichever one I happened to be
on at that time, and I would doit as fast as possible.
I was like speed masturbatornot get caught and it was also
(13:27):
like a chore, Like I needed toget it out because I didn't
really want to have a sex drive.
I was with somebody who wouldnot have sex with me more than
twice a month and when it wouldhappen it was 10 minutes each
time.
It was so fast.
It was always the same, alwaysthe same amount of time on
everything.
Always hit those marks.
We could have had a stopwatch.
Oh, you were three seconds lateon your orgasm.
(13:50):
You're going to get in trouble.
Not really.
No, I didn't get in trouble ifit took me longer than usual,
but I mean, he knew exactly howto touch me in exactly the right
way, and it was always the sameand I always produce the same
results.
And then we then we, you knowhave intercourse, and then we'd
be done, and 10 minutes fromstart to finish, and yeah.
(14:13):
So I did not want to have mysex drive come up and that.
Then he left me and I couldhave my sex drive because I was
still horny.
I was still very, very horny.
This all started when I wasstill in the last year and a
half of our marriage is when theincreased sex drive started and
I didn't work to completelydestroy it.
(14:33):
I didn't do what I'd donebefore, which was, if a sexual
thought came into my mind before, I would just, it was like
meditation.
I would just like, nope, justput the thought out of my mind.
I'm not looking at that man,nope, nope.
Not thinking about sex, nope.
But this time I just I let thethoughts come, but I didn't
(14:58):
dwell on it, I just let them be.
So it was kind of like if yoursex drive on a normal person is
a scale from like zero with noneto 10, like you're a teenage
boy, I think most women in ahealthy marriage, I hope, would
be at least a five, and in thisinstance I wasn't a five but I
was probably like a threeBecause of the perimenopausal
symptoms.
That must have been what washappening to me.
(15:18):
So when he left me and I couldstart having sex with other
people again, I went just teensybit nuts for a while there, and
by teensy I mean I went crazy,yeah.
But
Heidi (15:35):
yeah
Etienne (15:36):
Heidi, did you experience that?
at all Like no
Heidi (15:38):
yeah I had a surge for sure,
Etienne (15:41):
oh my God
Heidi (15:41):
Yeah, and yeah, it was after leaving my ex-husband as
well, and yeah,
Etienne (15:47):
oh gosh.
Heidi (15:48):
Went a little crazy.
Etienne (15:49):
Oh, yeah
Heidi (15:52):
so I get it.
Yeah, so you were still goingin the surge or going through
that surge when you went throughyour separation and divorce, so
you were able to kind of
Etienne (16:02):
yeah, I rode the waves
Heidi (16:03):
Capitalize on it.
Etienne (16:04):
Yeah, I rode the waves of that surge all the way to
meeting my now ex-boyfriend.
And I mean I had two years offun like two years of being not
married to meeting myex-boyfriend.
And then even still he will talkabout because we were friends,
and he will talk about everyonce in a while how I was
obsessed with too much sex withhim.
(16:25):
I still hadn't gotten enoughall the way out of my system,
like needing a little bit toomuch, you know.
So like literally I assumedevery date there was gonna be
something like I was expectingsomething, something sexual, I
want it, yeah.
And then he said yeah, and itwas way too much time.
(16:47):
He's like we spent hours havingsex every time like I am sorry
that you were forced to have sexfor hours.
That is so bad.
You should go talk to yourfriends about that.
That's torturous.
Heidi (16:58):
That's tragic, poor guy
Etienne (17:03):
I know.
Heidi (17:04):
Had a horny girlfriend.
Etienne (17:04):
I should have sent a card or condolences or something
for all the sex he had to have.
Heidi (17:09):
Yeah, his 18 year old self is just like shaking its
head.
dude, I would have killed forthat
Jane (17:21):
well, I think that's why I was obsessed, when I went
through my surge, with watchingall these may december romances
where there was an older womanand a younger man on netflix,
because I'm like he could keepup.
I think that's why I, you knowI did that.
Well, I mean, my husband washappy to accommodate when he
could, but then he, you know, hewas just like, oh my gosh, you
(17:42):
know what's gotten into you, andI'm like I don't know.
And so I started reading aboutit because I did feel a little
bit embarrassed.
Yeah, I said, why am I needingit so much more than you know?
And I also was very.
I mean, I'm very lucky that myhusband's he's hot.
I'm just going to say he's hot
Etienne (18:03):
yes
Jane (18:04):
So I would just look at him and just be like, oh yeah,
it just, it was crazy.
But I think he did feel alittle bit objectified and um
Etienne (18:15):
oh, again
Jane (18:15):
laugh about it.
Now
Etienne (18:16):
he could have a conversation with his younger
self and go, shut the fuck upman come on, just take it.
She wants it, like
Jane (18:23):
for real you know, and we and we would, and it was, and it
was funny and, like I said, wewe laugh about it and you know,
we still have a very healthy sexlife, but it was, I was being a
little, I was being a littleneedy, and I think that, uh, but
then also with the mood swingsthat accompany perimenopause, I
(18:44):
then would also besimultaneously staring at him,
undressing him with my eyes, butthen also irrationally angry at
him for something that he mayhave done in a dream I had.
You know, just reallyirrationally angry and
indignation, and this actuallyhad nothing to do with sex.
(19:06):
I was starting to feel angstyabout having spent so much of my
life in service of others,because I was a teacher for a
long time and then I became amother and I do a lot for the
people in my life.
I feel like that's the greatprivilege of my life, you know,
and a big part of what makes mehappy is being in service of
(19:29):
others.
But with those initial moodswings, I had a really hard time
with emotional regulation,which is actually something I've
had a pretty good handle on formost of my life, because I can
intellectualize my emotions andbe very self-soothing and say,
okay, we can work through this.
Jane and I had some goodself-talk and emotional
(19:51):
regulation.
All of that went out the windowfor a couple of months.
I was just losing my mind.
I was just
Etienne (19:56):
only a couple of months .
You really only had a couple ofmonths
Jane (20:00):
yes, but it was a very hard couple of months.
When I feel it happening now,because I don't think that it
went away, I think I just maybewas able to get a handle on it,
and but when it was firsthappening to me, it felt very
much like that puberty inreverse of just
Heidi (20:18):
out of control
Jane (20:19):
yes, crying, but then feeling angry and then feeling
horny like I, really like ateenager, uh,
Heidi (20:26):
yeah,
Jane (20:28):
having to go take care of myself in the bathroom, like
during the middle of the day,like that would not even as a
teenager.
I wasn't like that, you know.
Heidi (20:36):
Yeah.
Thank God for really goodvibrators that have come out in
recent years, like cause, yeah.
Etienne (20:45):
The mood swings that you're talking about, jane.
That was the first thing that Inoticed about myself and I
thought that I was menopausal.
Because of that, I have an IUDand so I can't tell by missed
periods if I was perimenopausalor menopausal or anything,
because I didn't have a periodso I couldn't go by that at all.
But my mood, I was all over.
(21:08):
I was joyous one second andthen I'd find a sock on the
floor.
You're like why is that sock onthe floor?
Just like lose my mind oversomething that I would never
lose my mind over.
Not, not, not before, Any likehormonal changes were happening
in my body.
And I did mention that to thegynecologist when it just came
(21:32):
up to be time for my exam, myyearly exam.
And she's like well, I mean youcould be menopausal.
So she did do the test for theFSH level and it came back a few
days later and it was like,plus the max number that they
can give you, because I wentbeyond whatever the number was
that they just didn't record itanymore.
(21:52):
And that's supposed to meanyou're in menopause.
And she's like
Heidi (21:58):
yes
Etienne (21:58):
okay, well, why don't you make an appointment and
we'll get your IUD out and I'mlike hold on, let's not whip the
sucker out Like I.
I've heard about women who aresupposedly menopausal who still
have spotting, and that was thewhole reason why I got the IUD.
I know I can.
I can easily not get pregnant.
I've never been pregnant in mylife.
(22:19):
I know how to like control thatsituation without an IUD.
I got the IUD because ofspotting and I do not want to
have that happen again.
So I actually did find out.
Per the company who makes myIUD, I can keep it in three more
years before having it removed,and that is what I'm going to
(22:39):
do, and then for sure I willhave avoided any kind of
situational like anything thatI've been wanting to avoid
because I had way too many yearsof blood way too many.
I do not.
I don't think I deserve anymore blood None at all.
Jane (22:56):
Same.
I had very irregular periodswhen I first got them to the
point where my first visit everto a gynecologist I was bleeding
, because I had been bleedingfor four weeks straight and that
had happened to me before and Isaid, okay, that's enough of
this, I know this isn't normal.
So that was when I was 17.
(23:17):
And then later on then I hadthe same issue with spotting and
that type of stuff.
And then now in perimenopausethe irregularity of the periods
is another lovely little sideeffect, right.
So I had true to fashion I wasalmost expecting it the puberty
in reverse thing.
I did have that happen to meagain, where three weeks
(23:40):
straight or four weeks straight,then not a period for three
months you know enough to scarethe shit out of you where you
need to have pregnancy tests onhand.
I'm 51 I'm not trying to be amom again here, uh, and now I
can't remember.
I'm trying to remember my lastperiod and I can't.
I like panic when you go to thedoctor and they ask you now
(24:01):
when was the date of your lastperiod?
I'm like, does anybody know theanswer to this question?
I don't.
I don't know.
I'm thinking it's been.
It's been a couple months andI'm hoping that I just get on
the other side of this now,because it's been kind of nice
not having it and I haven't hadspotting.
(24:22):
And I too have an IUD, but itdoesn't have any hormones in it
because I have rheumatoidarthritis and you're not
supposed to engage in thehormonal therapy stuff.
It's not really good for peoplewith autoimmune diseases, so I
try to avoid that.
So mine is the Paragard, soit's just copper and I have
several years left of it in.
But I'm waiting until I'mtotally on the other side and
(24:43):
then they could take it out,because last time they had to go
on an expedition to get it outit had moved a little bit kind
of up and to the left, so theyhad to go in there with like
some tools.
It was not pleasant.
So
Etienne (24:57):
I need to ask were you awake?
When?
I mean, what did they?
Did they try to help you withsome numbing of some kind when
they went for their fishingexpedition?
For you?
Jane (25:05):
Oh, yeah, they did.
They numbed me before they wentfishing, so there was, and they
even had a nurse sit in thereand talk to me and hold my hand.
So that was actually
Etienne (25:15):
Sorry
Jane (25:16):
Yeah, they did.
She was very sweet and we madejokes and that's how you get
through those types ofuncomfortable situations.
But I definitely will celebratewhen we can take it out and
there's no more periods.
But so, heidi, your storyscares me when I know this has
happened, where you didn't haveone for a year and actually
(25:37):
Heidi and I were together.
We were together on a yoga andmeditation retreat?
Heidi (25:41):
Yeah
Jane (25:41):
and out of nowhere she's like.
I just started my period and Iwent, oh no, and I felt like it
was my fault because I was aboutto start mine.
I didn't but.
I had stuff with me and I had togive it to her because
Heidi (25:53):
yeah.
I didn't have it.
Yeah, I thought I was done.
No
Etienne (25:58):
oh my God, that's awful .
It wasn't like in the middle ofa class where you like were
wearing white yoga pants andthen
Heidi (26:03):
no
Etienne (26:04):
Okay.
Good
Heidi (26:07):
thank God, no, no, but yeah, I'm over the bleeding.
It's been 40 years, yes, andI'm with Jane Like there should
be a party at the end of this.
You know how they have babyshowers and wedding showers.
And like birthday parties,engagement parties, like, yeah,
menopause parties, like we needto make that a thing because we
(26:30):
deserve a big old party andgifts.
Etienne (26:34):
Yeah, I'm all for the party for the fact that the
bleeding has stopped.
But I have learned what thehormones actually do for the
rest of our body, that wedefinitely need them.
Like it's scary what happens ifyou you know
Heidi (26:45):
yeah
Etienne (26:45):
I mean, jane, you're just saying that it sounds like
because of your autoimmunedisorder that you're not going
to be able to.
I mean I'm guessing.
Now tell me if I'm wrong.
But does that mean you cannever go on hormone replacement
therapy then?
Jane (26:59):
I don't know if it means never.
It may have to just be reallyspecified.
You know, for my circumstancesit's not something that I've
looked into.
I know that it was recommendedthat I didn't do any kind of
hormone birth control.
After I got diagnosed, I didhormonal birth control.
(27:19):
I was on the pill for years, tothe point where when we got
married and I went off of it,brendan was a little nervous
that my personality would bedifferent.
Etienne (27:32):
He said it's going to be nervous about that.
Oh my God
Jane (27:35):
well he's.
You know what
Etienne (27:38):
I mean.
I can see the other way around.
Heidi (27:39):
It does happen
Etienne (27:40):
I can see it.
the other way around, though,because I've actually seen.
I had a roommate who went onbirth control pills when she was
living in my house and she wasin her late 30s and she got a
little nuts and immediatelyfound out she cannot take birth
control.
Like she was like what I wastalking about with how I was
(28:00):
with the labile rollercoastermood swings.
No, it was not fun, and sheimmediately just stopped and
said well, let's be on condomsfor me only, like great.
Heidi (28:12):
Well I don't they say something, or I could be wrong
that pheromones change Withbirth control pills and then so,
when women go off of them,their husbands aren't attracted
to them anymore.
Jane (28:24):
That yes
Heidi (28:25):
or something.
Yeah
Jane (28:26):
they impact that and and vice versa.
You know, and because Brendanhad only known me on birth
control, he was wondering if Iwould be different off and it
turns out I'm not, because Ican't remember it's been so many
years which one I was on, butit actually kept me pretty even
keel.
But they switched my birthcontrol one time on me and I
(28:47):
can't remember the reason why Iswitched it.
I think I was having someissues with one initially.
I think it might have probablybreakthrough bleeding, because
that was always the thing thatwould happen, and I was on
something try something,tricycline.
I can't remember what it wascalled, but for four days I was
a basket case and I had neverbeen like that before.
(29:12):
Just the wild swings up and downand crying and feeling suicidal
.
And I called my doctor and Isaid I can't take this.
It has to be this.
This is the only thing that haschanged in my life for the past
four days are these stupidpills.
It took four days for you to goa little crazy from them.
That's all it took.
And so I think with some people, your body, just your chemistry
(29:33):
, might have a volatile reactionto it, and I definitely did and
I just I think that then thehormonal swings, then a
perimenopause for me were almostmimicking that feeling, because
when I said I had an extremeindignation you know horny but
then also angry I'm like why amI doing all these things for
everybody else?
This should be my time in mylife.
(29:54):
I mean, I really was just sobitchy about it, you know, and I
didn't vocalize it, but Idefinitely I don't usually have
RBF, but I definitely
Etienne (30:05):
what's RBF?
Resting bitch face.
But wait,
Jane (30:11):
but for those
Etienne (30:12):
oh sorry, yes, for those of you who don't know what
RBF is like, I immediately waslike wait, what is that Resting
bitch face?
Yes, but wait.
Did he?
Did he notice that look thatyou were describing where you
were horny for him and at thesame time like kind of angry at
him for something?
That in that one, like, did henotice those that, the
expressions that you might'vehad?
Jane (30:36):
Yes, and he was.
Etienne (30:37):
I can't imagine like seeing your face like that and
going like what is happening,like I don't even know how I'm
supposed to react to this do Itake her to the bedroom or do I
get in the car and drive awaylike
Jane (30:51):
he may have wanted to at some times because it wouldn't
happen simultaneously, but itwould definitely happen in the
span of 10 minutes.
Wild fluctuation where I wasimagining I mean something.
He would just do somethingstupid like not clean the
counters the way that I do which, by the way, he still doesn't,
(31:12):
but it just doesn't bother me asmuch.
Etienne (31:13):
Yeah
Jane (31:14):
you know, I make sure there's no crumbs, I have a
method.
But during that time period Iwould just see something like
that and just in my mindimmediately start thinking
insane thoughts like how muchour insurance policy is worth.
That's where my mind would go
Etienne (31:32):
Wait, wait.
His life insurance policy.
Is that what you just?
Is that what you're talkingabout?
Jane (31:36):
Yes, over
Heidi (31:38):
how much would I get?
Etienne (31:40):
I don't think you're going to get the money if you
murder him Jane.
Jane (31:45):
Over crumbs.
I didn't want to murder him, Ijust thought.
You know, he is just with thetoothpaste in the sink and the
crumbs on the counter.
I just would be.
What would it be like without?
And then I would immediatelystart crying from guilt for
thinking something so horrific.
And then sometimes I would callhim at work just to check in
(32:07):
with him and say I love you.
I would just feel so incrediblyguilty
Etienne (32:09):
Because you're so guilty.
Jane (32:11):
So guilty, and then immediately want to jump his
bones when he came home.
It was just ridiculous.
I'm feeling like maybe
I felt like a crazy person .
Etienne (32:19):
I feel like there maybe there should be a menopausal
insurance policy that we cantake out for our crazy behaviors
that may result in murder.
Heidi (32:28):
Yeah, we can't be held liable.
If you piss us off
Etienne (32:36):
if we're on a roller coaster of hormones, we cannot
be in control of our actions.
It takes everything within ourpower.
Okay, so wait.
When I did tell thegynecologist and she checked my
hormone level, she's like, well,you are 50.
I was 50 something at the time,51, I think, when this happened
.
And she's like you can go onthis antidepressant that suppose
(32:58):
it was Paxil.
Pretty sure it was Paxil andit's a low dose.
So it's not the same dose thatsomebody would start Paxil if
you are using it for depressionor anxiety or whatever they use
Paxil for.
The dose for menopause is halfof that.
And so I was like, is that okay?
Like that's my option, likethat's what she gave me, that
(33:20):
was my only option.
I was like I'll try this and Iwaited the allotted amount of
time that it takes for these toactually start working, which I
think is like three or moreweeks, right, and I felt
slightly better, but not reallybecause that wasn't the problem.
The problem wasn't in my brainper se.
(33:42):
It was my lack of estrogen andtestosterone and progesterone in
my body that was causing theissues, not whatever brain
chemistry the Paxil works on.
It just might be one of thosethings like, yes, paxil might
technically work, but maybe it'sworking because placebos work
for people.
They take it and they tell youit's going to work and you're
like, okay, I'll try it and itmight work, because you're
(34:04):
taking a pill and you think it'sgoing to do something for you,
whereas I was like, is thisreally going to do anything?
Because I don't want to be onthis.
And then when I started gettingthe pellets put in me with the
hormones, which was only threemonths later, I had to then wean
myself off of the Paxil becauseit's dangerous to just stop
cold turkey.
On any of most of theseantidepressants you can have
(34:29):
horrible reactions where youmight end up hospitalized, so
that is not okay.
So I had to, like, step myselfdown slowly over time and
actually it wasn't the moodswings that sent me to go get
hormones.
I was complaining about my moodswings to my hairdresser
because I hadn't been to myhairdresser she a long time, and
when I was describing theissues I was having about my
mood swings to my hairdressershe said to me well, I have a
(34:50):
bunch of clients who are aroundyour age who got their hormones
tested and they went and gothormone replacement therapy.
And she told me the name of theplace here in our city and I
was like, well, I think I got totry that.
I got an appointment, I went andhad a consult.
I saw the book on the tablecalled Estrogen Matters.
They told me some things aboutestrogen and female hormones in
general that I didn't know about.
(35:11):
And I went ahead and got thatbook while I was waiting for my
appointment to get my labs drawnfor the first time and I read
that book fast.
That thing was available at thelibrary.
I was like, yep, gonna read itright now.
And I literally read it withina few days and I was shocked by
what I learned and justhorrified that back in the year
(35:32):
2000, the Women's HealthInitiative basically did a study
that caused every woman who wason hormone replacement therapy
to believe that they were allgoing to get breast cancer
because they were gettinghormones.
And wasn't true
Heidi (35:42):
it wasn't true
Etienne (35:43):
no, and it's still out there.
They're still.
So I work with a lot of veryyoung nurses I work with like
nurses in their 20s and they'vejust come out of nursing school
and they still they think you'renot allowed to have hormones,
like they think that.
So that means it's still beingtaught
being taughtThat's, that's yeah, that's
(36:05):
criminal,
yeah, and
Heidi (36:06):
cause there's so many women that have to fight for it
now.
Etienne (36:10):
Yeah.
And yeah, and it's not coveredby insurance.
My pallets are not covered byinsurance.
I have to pay for that out ofpocket.
I don't care, I need them, butyes, it's not covered.
So I think we need to go toCongress and start lobbying that
this is something we need andyou know what?
It's going to protect us fromall kinds of things that we all
(36:31):
worry about having happened tous as we age as a woman, which I
totally want to cover this inanother episode, so we'll get a
nitty gritty of that anothertime.
Heidi (36:41):
Yeah, I'm afraid that they're just gonna slowly take
away any hormone replacement.
Etienne (36:47):
If they do, I'm just gonna keep paying for it out of
pocket.
If they try to take it all theway away, completely out of the
country, I'll have to go toMexico and get my pellets or
something or Canada or whatever.
I will do whatever.
I'm not going off of them nowthat I've had them.
I do not want to go back.
Heidi (37:02):
Women across the country would be doing that yeah.
Etienne (37:05):
But actually the symptom that prompted me to I
need to do something more thanthis ridiculous little Paxil
pill that's doing nothing for mewas I had two incidences of
incontinence where I was doingabsolutely nothing and urine
leaked out of me.
One time I was just standing atmy back door not moving and I
(37:26):
felt it.
It felt like when you have yourperiod, like the very very
first flow that comes out.
That's what it felt like andI'm like wait, did I just get my
period?
I checked and nope, that wasurine.
And I'm like what is happening?
I was under the impression thatI was never going to have
urinary incontinence as an olderwoman because I never had a
child, so I thought I'm safe.
(37:47):
Turns out I'm not safe.
That muscle is affected by lowestrogen and the other thing
that happened that even worsethan that was it was happening
during intercourse.
So I would find out afterhaving sex with my then
boyfriend that there was someurine on him, like it might have
(38:07):
just been a drop, but it wasenough for me to notice and I
had to tell him like, yeah, sothis is happening and I'm very
sorry and I'm going to doeverything I can to find out how
to fix this.
Within a week of starting thehormones I had sex and nothing
happened.
It already had worked.
It's that fast
Jane (38:27):
that quickly.
Heidi (38:28):
My head was already better too.
Etienne (38:30):
My mind was fine, my body had responded yes.
That's how quickly things canturn around for you.
Jane (38:38):
Thank you for talking about that and I think that a
lot of people feel veryembarrassed about some of the
things that we've been talkingabout and when it happens to
them, it just feels like no onecould possibly be going through
this.
I'm very grateful that I'mgoing through this stage of my
life in the age of the Internet,because for all of the dark
corners of the Internet meGoogling why am I so horny in my
(39:01):
mid-40s?
Which is just a lifesaver
Etienne (39:03):
What are you gonna do
Jane (39:04):
like that's
Etienne (39:05):
uh in the old days.
What are you gonna go to thelibrarian and ask them?
Jane (39:09):
oh, oh my god, I couldn't imagine asking my local library
like, excuse me, can you directme to where the horny 40?
You're like that,
Etienne (39:17):
horny and 40
Jane (39:18):
that's kind of.
I think that might have evenbeen the name of one of the
blogs I came across.
But like people talking aboutthis, I think is really
important.
And the incontinence thing Idid have a baby and I didn't
have that until recently.
It's not a big issue, but if Ihaven't gone to the bathroom
recently and I'm laughing a lotand I feel a sneeze coming on
Etienne (39:42):
oh no
Jane (39:43):
that's the trifecta.
I gotta, I gotta go to thebathroom.
Etienne (39:47):
Wait, do you literally laugh and sneeze at the same
time?
Does that happen to you?
Like, is that possible?
Jane (39:53):
Well, it's South Carolina in March and so, yes, the pollen
is so gross that that that hashappened to me a couple of times
just in the past three days,where I'm talking with somebody
and I'm laughing with mydaughter or with my husband and
I also have had a cup of tea andI feel a sneeze coming on and I
(40:13):
have to excuse myself because Iknow it's going to be an issue
and that wasn't an issue just acouple of years ago.
Etienne (40:24):
Every time I go to Costco I see an older lady,
older like in her 60s, possibly70s with a giant bulk size of
poise I think it's called poise.
They're panty liners for ladieswho release some urine
unexpectedly.
And that just made me so sadbecause I know what happened to
(40:46):
me and I know how I fixed it andthey can't fix it now.
I literally can't like go onhormones.
If it's been more than I think,five years that you've hit
menopause.
It's actually not safe for youto go on hormones at that point.
There's a safe window, and thatwas how that Women's Health
Initiative study messed with us,because they use women way too
old way past menopause, and ofcourse that is bad for you.
(41:08):
You've got to do it in ashorter amount of time.
Heidi (41:12):
Yeah, it was a very flawed study and they had to
retract a lot of this stuff too.
Etienne (41:17):
Yeah, but it's too late .
Heidi (41:19):
The media sensationalized a part of it because they had
to stop the study because acouple of the women but they
were the older ones yeah, likeyou said, that shouldn't have
been in the study to begin with.
Etienne (41:32):
No, no, no, it definitely should not have been
in the study.
No so annoying.
I don't understand.
I would love to know what themotivation was behind that.
Was somebody really worriedthat we were going to get breast
cancer?
Or was somebody for some reasonagainst women having hormones
past menopause?
I don't understand, like whatthe purpose of that was,
(41:57):
honestly.
Jane (42:00):
We may never know, but you're inspiring me to have a
conversation with my doctorabout this.
An autoimmune thing.
Etienne (42:07):
I want all of us to, if we can read the book that I
read called Estrogen Matters,and then we're going to really
dive into this.
Heidi (42:16):
And that's our show.
You've been listening to theWomen Are Plotting.
If you have a story you'd liketo share or have any comments,
we'd love to hear from you.
Email us at info@thewomenareplottingcom, and, of
course, you can find us on allthe socials.
Thanks and until next time.
Be safe and be excellent toeach other.
Welcome listeners.
This is Women Are Plotting.
I'm Etienne Rose Olivier, andI'm here with my friends and
co-hosts, Heidi Willis and JaneGari.
Today's episode we'll betalking about menopause and
perimenopause and what symptomseach of us experienced.
That let us know that we werein either perimenopause or
(00:25):
menopause, and we always startour episodes with a fun fact,
and my fun fact for today'sepisode is that you can get
pregnant when you'reperimenopausal.
Do not believe that justbecause your periods are getting
irregular, that you can stopwhatever birth control you're on
.
You are only safe to stop birthcontrol when you're fully in
(00:45):
menopause, which is defined as12 consecutive months without a
period.
Okay, so, Heidi, what is yourfun fact for today?
Heidi (00:58):
I have two because I want to piggyback on that.
I actually went 12 monthswithout a period, but my levels
were still elevated.
Oh shit, yeah, she was likeyou're not in menopause and in
fact I started a period againand it's so frustrating.
So, yeah, so it's veryfrustrating to go 12 months and
(01:19):
then your levels are still notat what they're supposed to be.
So I've had this happen twicenow, where I've gone, you know,
11 months or 12 months and andyeah
Etienne (01:33):
oh my God
Heidi (01:33):
Not in menopause yet.
I can't believe you did ittwice.
So what was, what year did youfirst?
have this like
it was 2022
Etienne (01:43):
okay
Heidi (01:44):
went 11 months, started back up and was going for
another year or so or no.
It was till that october of2023.
And then I made it to octoberof last year and then, nope, my
levels were still elevated.
Etienne (02:04):
Oh my God
Heidi (02:05):
yeah, yeah.
So she put me on birth controlto try and get me leveled out
and now I'm starting hormonereplacement therapy.
Oh, so my fun fact, my real funfact, is did you know that your
testosterone gets low as well?
And they've started using thatin perimenopausal and menopausal
(02:30):
women, because it does affectyou, like your mood and sex
drive and all that.
And, yeah, so my pharmacist istrying to get me some because
it's considered off-label, usingit in women, which it's having
good effects on women and inthis phase of life.
But, yeah, the VA is giving hera lot of peck, so she's trying
(02:55):
to figure out a way to get methis medication I really need
and she's been able to prescribeit to other women veterans in
the past, so we don't knowwhat's happening now.
I have an idea why
Etienne (03:08):
oh God
Heidi (03:10):
why they're rejecting doctors prescribed.
Etienne (03:14):
Oh okay, let's not say why, but okay,
Heidi (03:16):
no, I'm not going to say why, but I have an idea
Etienne (03:18):
I can think of why.
Heidi (03:19):
Yeah.
If you think real hard you cankind of figure it out.
But anyway, hopefully I'll beon, you know, a low dose of
testosterone soon and that willhelp me with mood and brain fog
apparently like it really helpswith brain fog, but my levels
are really low and she washoping to get me this medication
(03:41):
to even me out.
Etienne (03:42):
Yeah, I guess our ovaries make estrogen,
progesterone and testosterone,because I'm actually on hormone
replacement therapy and they doall three, so I get pellets.
But I get pellets put it intomy body for estrogen and
testosterone and they don't havethat for progesterone.
So I have to use these littlelike gel cubes that I put in my
(04:06):
mouth and they have to dissolveslowly.
It's super annoying.
I mean it takes like 10, 15minutes.
It's not the end of the world,it's just, you know, a little
bit annoying.
I asked them why do they notmake these in pellet?
Just put that in me too, likewe're good, no more worries.
Oh, but they checked my levelsbefore they give me new pellets.
They checked them like twoweeks before I get new pellets
(04:28):
and one time they were like ohwell, let's bump up your
testosterone too.
And I'm like okay, cause Ididn't know what was going to
happen.
I think my sex drive increaseda little bit, which that's fine.
The sex drive part is fine.
But the bad part I broke out sobad around my mouth.
As soon as I could get them allgone, you know, a new batch
would pop up and I said, yeah,my face is breaking out.
(04:50):
And literally when I went inthere to get my blood drawn,
she's like oh well, they didbump your testosterone up, and
that around your mouth is whereyou break out if your
testosterone levels are too highas a woman.
So, yeah, I'm like, well, let'sjust turn me down just a little
bit then, because it's supposedto, I think, also help for
energy and sex drive, and Ididn't know that it helped for
(05:11):
brain frog because literally Igot all of my hormones at the
same time.
So I don't know which one likedid what as far as my symptoms.
But I think we should move on toJane and Jane's fun fact of
going off about me and mypellets or whatever.
Jane (05:27):
Well, my fun fact I think it's hard to find a fun fact
about none of these facts arefun
Heidi (05:31):
yeah
Jane (05:32):
but when I was doing research for this, I'm like
there are no fun facts.
I don't understand why at theend of this road, confetti
doesn't just launch out of yourvagina and like it's a surprise,
but no, instead we have to gothrough cruel puberty in reverse
(05:52):
.
It's total bullshit.
But my fun fact is that thehormonal chaos that happens in
your body during this time oflife causes memory lapses.
And that was when you guys weretalking about testosterone and
how that you're being prescribedthat to actually help with the
brain fog.
I did not know that that was asymptom of perimenopause and
menopause.
(06:12):
I just thought, you know youwalk into a room and you forget
why you went in there and Ithought am I having a premature
senior moment?
Because I can't.
Surely I'm not having a seniormoment yet.
And it's similar the way when Iwas pregnant I would have a
little bit of they called itmommy brain.
But I said, ok, this is many,many years later.
(06:33):
I can't still have mommy brain,but apparently that is part of
it.
And I just learned that I wastoday years old when I learned
that, and I just learned that Iwas today years old when I
learned that.
Etienne (06:46):
Wait, today, today's year old, that's awesome.
Jane (06:56):
I was today's years old when I learned that hormonal
chaos in your body during thistime of life can cause memory
issues.
But I'm happy that both of youhave sought some type of
remediation with hormonaltherapy and then that can help.
I'm not there yet where I wouldseek that out.
I for me, I just right now I'mI'm perimenopausal and if the
cleaner I keep my diet, the morethat I exercise that I I feel
(07:21):
like I can keep most of it underwraps.
But when I first realized thatsomething was happening to me I
was still, you know, I was in my40s and mid 40s and I was
experiencing what I would cometo find in other anecdotal
literature was referred to asthe surge, where I just had this
horror.
I was just so horny and it cameout of nowhere and it was the
(07:46):
opposite of what I had read wasgoing to happen to me.
they were like oh no, like theolder you get, you're just gonna
just gonna die.
You're just gonna dry up downthere and not be interested
anymore.
But first of all, I know thatthat's not true from other
people, that I know my friendgroup and even in my family, but
this was unusual, you know, Imean
(08:07):
a healthy sex drive, but thiswas next level, let me just put
it that way Next level and tothe point where it was annoying
because it was intrusivethoughts Thinking I would like
some now, and it was just.
It seemed to come out ofnowhere and I was also having
(08:27):
hot flashes.
They didn't coincide.
it wasn't like I was horny andtemperature hot all the same
time you're hot and hot no itwould be just random horniness
and a preoccupation withwatching May December romances
on Netflix and then at nighthaving hot flashes and really
(08:49):
having trouble sleeping becauseof them Not the dripping sweat
that I've heard other peoplehave.
Thankfully that hasn't happenedto me, but definitely hot
flashes have been real.
Etienne (08:58):
Well, how often were you experiencing them Like,
generally speaking, the hotflashes, not the horniness part?
Jane (09:05):
The horniness was nearly constant.
Etienne (09:08):
Like a teenage boy.
Jane (09:11):
A little bit felt like that and that lasted for almost
a year and then thankfully wentback to normal.
The hot flashes were coming, Iwould say, a couple times a day,
and then they would disappearfor weeks and I did notice that
they would subside the cleaner Iwould be with my diet and my
(09:31):
sleep hygiene and working out,and then they went away
altogether for a couple years.
But I am very sad to reportthat lately, in the past two
months, they have returned witha vengeance, and only at night,
though not during the day.
Before when they happened itwould be during the day.
Now this is only at night, and Ifeel like my husband and I have
(09:52):
done this weird role reversalwhere usually I was the one I
was wearing socks to bed,flannel pajamas, extra blankets,
and if it was cold outside Iwas really looking like I was
going into hibernation orsomething, making the bed into
this cocoon thing just on myside, because he is also a human
(10:13):
radiator and so he didn'treally need that.
But now that we're older, we'reswitching and now he needs the
extra blanket.
He has a weighted blanket onhis side of the bed that makes
it so hot.
And then I am literally just asnaked as I can get.
I can't be totally nakedbecause I have to wear this
apparatus on my back because Ihave sleep positional, sleep
(10:34):
apnea.
That's hilarious.
So I I look like I'm goingscuba diving, but this thing I
wear on my back so I can lay onmy side, so I have that on, but
otherwise I'm naked and I'm sohot and he's over there looking
snug as a bug in a rug, and sothat's my experience so far.
Etienne (10:54):
Oh wait, jane, I don't think the last time that we
shared a hotel room that you hadyour little dolphin fin thing,
did you
Jane (10:59):
no I had what I lovingly refer to
as bed balls.
It was like that tight shirtthat I had.
Etienne (11:04):
Oh yeah, the
Jane (11:05):
tennis balls.
You've seen my bed balls.
Etienne (11:07):
Yes
I've seen it.
So now you've upgraded to a different, it's not bed
balls anymore.
Jane (11:13):
No, because the bed balls.
I've started my body.
I think I used to them and Iwould still get to.
I would move just enough wherethe snoring would.
There would be somebreakthrough snoring.
So now I have this, you'll seeit.
(11:34):
It's hilarious.
Heidi (11:34):
You look like a dolphin though.
Jane (11:35):
Yeah, it's awesome
Etienne (11:36):
oh, that's fantastic.
But now your fun fact though,jane, about getting or not fun
fact.
But I guess when you first knewthat you were perimenopausal,
was the not just the hot flashes, but the increased sex drive.
Now, I didn't even put thisdown as something I was going to
talk about today, but I had thesame thing happen to me, and
mine happened when I was stillmarried and when I, you know, in
(11:56):
my marriage I had destroyed mysex drive because I wasn't
getting enough sex in my almostthe entirety of my marriage.
This is so stupid.
I was reading Twilight in aStarbucks and I don't know why I
would get horny at this.
But in the moment where he'swatching her sleep in the book,
(12:20):
I suddenly got so horny and thatwas the first inkling that
something was happening to meand I was like what is no, no,
no, why is this happening?
And I'm like, okay, I'm justgonna ignore it, I'm just gonna
ignore it.
But then people started talkingabout Fifty Shades of Grey and
I was like, hmm, maybe I want toread that.
And stupid me.
I actually got the whole seriesand started reading it and, oh
(12:44):
my God, it was so bad.
Again, I was stuck in aStarbucks.
I don't know what the heck Idid.
I was in Starbucks a lot and Iwas reading this.
I almost felt like I needed togo to the bathroom and be a
teenage boy and go rub one outin the bathroom.
And I was like no, no, I'm notdoing that, but I would always
(13:04):
go to bed before my husband atthe time and I always knew I had
a certain amount of time.
If I wanted to take care ofmyself, I could do that with my
50 Shades of Grey book,whichever one I happened to be
on at that time, and I would doit as fast as possible.
I was like speed masturbatornot get caught and it was also
(13:27):
like a chore, Like I needed toget it out because I didn't
really want to have a sex drive.
I was with somebody who wouldnot have sex with me more than
twice a month and when it wouldhappen it was 10 minutes each
time.
It was so fast.
It was always the same, alwaysthe same amount of time on
everything.
Always hit those marks.
We could have had a stopwatch.
Oh, you were three seconds lateon your orgasm.
(13:50):
You're going to get in trouble.
Not really.
No, I didn't get in trouble ifit took me longer than usual,
but I mean, he knew exactly howto touch me in exactly the right
way, and it was always the sameand I always produce the same
results.
And then we then we, you knowhave intercourse, and then we'd
be done, and 10 minutes fromstart to finish, and yeah.
(14:13):
So I did not want to have mysex drive come up and that.
Then he left me and I couldhave my sex drive because I was
still horny.
I was still very, very horny.
This all started when I wasstill in the last year and a
half of our marriage is when theincreased sex drive started and
I didn't work to completelydestroy it.
(14:33):
I didn't do what I'd donebefore, which was, if a sexual
thought came into my mind before, I would just, it was like
meditation.
I would just like, nope, justput the thought out of my mind.
I'm not looking at that man,nope, nope.
Not thinking about sex, nope.
But this time I just I let thethoughts come, but I didn't
(14:58):
dwell on it, I just let them be.
So it was kind of like if yoursex drive on a normal person is
a scale from like zero with noneto 10, like you're a teenage
boy, I think most women in ahealthy marriage, I hope, would
be at least a five, and in thisinstance I wasn't a five but I
was probably like a threeBecause of the perimenopausal
symptoms.
That must have been what washappening to me.
(15:18):
So when he left me and I couldstart having sex with other
people again, I went just teensybit nuts for a while there, and
by teensy I mean I went crazy,yeah.
But
Heidi (15:35):
yeah
Etienne (15:36):
Heidi, did you experience that?
at all Like no
Heidi (15:38):
yeah I had a surge for sure,
Etienne (15:41):
oh my God
Heidi (15:41):
Yeah, and yeah, it was after leaving my ex-husband as
well, and yeah,
Etienne (15:47):
oh gosh.
Heidi (15:48):
Went a little crazy.
Etienne (15:49):
Oh, yeah
Heidi (15:52):
so I get it.
Yeah, so you were still goingin the surge or going through
that surge when you went throughyour separation and divorce, so
you were able to kind of
Etienne (16:02):
yeah, I rode the waves
Heidi (16:03):
Capitalize on it.
Etienne (16:04):
Yeah, I rode the waves of that surge all the way to
meeting my now ex-boyfriend.
And I mean I had two years offun like two years of being not
married to meeting myex-boyfriend.
And then even still he will talkabout because we were friends,
and he will talk about everyonce in a while how I was
obsessed with too much sex withhim.
(16:25):
I still hadn't gotten enoughall the way out of my system,
like needing a little bit toomuch, you know.
So like literally I assumedevery date there was gonna be
something like I was expectingsomething, something sexual, I
want it, yeah.
And then he said yeah, and itwas way too much time.
(16:47):
He's like we spent hours havingsex every time like I am sorry
that you were forced to have sexfor hours.
That is so bad.
You should go talk to yourfriends about that.
That's torturous.
Heidi (16:58):
That's tragic, poor guy
Etienne (17:03):
I know.
Heidi (17:04):
Had a horny girlfriend.
Etienne (17:04):
I should have sent a card or condolences or something
for all the sex he had to have.
Heidi (17:09):
Yeah, his 18 year old self is just like shaking its
head.
dude, I would have killed forthat
Jane (17:21):
well, I think that's why I was obsessed, when I went
through my surge, with watchingall these may december romances
where there was an older womanand a younger man on netflix,
because I'm like he could keepup.
I think that's why I, you knowI did that.
Well, I mean, my husband washappy to accommodate when he
could, but then he, you know, hewas just like, oh my gosh, you
(17:42):
know what's gotten into you, andI'm like I don't know.
And so I started reading aboutit because I did feel a little
bit embarrassed.
Yeah, I said, why am I needingit so much more than you know?
And I also was very.
I mean, I'm very lucky that myhusband's he's hot.
I'm just going to say he's hot
Etienne (18:03):
yes
Jane (18:04):
So I would just look at him and just be like, oh yeah,
it just, it was crazy.
But I think he did feel alittle bit objectified and um
Etienne (18:15):
oh, again
Jane (18:15):
laugh about it.
Now
Etienne (18:16):
he could have a conversation with his younger
self and go, shut the fuck upman come on, just take it.
She wants it, like
Jane (18:23):
for real you know, and we and we would, and it was, and it
was funny and, like I said, wewe laugh about it and you know,
we still have a very healthy sexlife, but it was, I was being a
little, I was being a littleneedy, and I think that, uh, but
then also with the mood swingsthat accompany perimenopause, I
(18:44):
then would also besimultaneously staring at him,
undressing him with my eyes, butthen also irrationally angry at
him for something that he mayhave done in a dream I had.
You know, just reallyirrationally angry and
indignation, and this actuallyhad nothing to do with sex.
(19:06):
I was starting to feel angstyabout having spent so much of my
life in service of others,because I was a teacher for a
long time and then I became amother and I do a lot for the
people in my life.
I feel like that's the greatprivilege of my life, you know,
and a big part of what makes mehappy is being in service of
(19:29):
others.
But with those initial moodswings, I had a really hard time
with emotional regulation,which is actually something I've
had a pretty good handle on formost of my life, because I can
intellectualize my emotions andbe very self-soothing and say,
okay, we can work through this.
Jane and I had some goodself-talk and emotional
(19:51):
regulation.
All of that went out the windowfor a couple of months.
I was just losing my mind.
I was just
Etienne (19:56):
only a couple of months .
You really only had a couple ofmonths
Jane (20:00):
yes, but it was a very hard couple of months.
When I feel it happening now,because I don't think that it
went away, I think I just maybewas able to get a handle on it,
and but when it was firsthappening to me, it felt very
much like that puberty inreverse of just
Heidi (20:18):
out of control
Jane (20:19):
yes, crying, but then feeling angry and then feeling
horny like I, really like ateenager, uh,
Heidi (20:26):
yeah,
Jane (20:28):
having to go take care of myself in the bathroom, like
during the middle of the day,like that would not even as a
teenager.
I wasn't like that, you know.
Heidi (20:36):
Yeah.
Thank God for really goodvibrators that have come out in
recent years, like cause, yeah.
Etienne (20:45):
The mood swings that you're talking about, jane.
That was the first thing that Inoticed about myself and I
thought that I was menopausal.
Because of that, I have an IUDand so I can't tell by missed
periods if I was perimenopausalor menopausal or anything,
because I didn't have a periodso I couldn't go by that at all.
But my mood, I was all over.
(21:08):
I was joyous one second andthen I'd find a sock on the
floor.
You're like why is that sock onthe floor?
Just like lose my mind oversomething that I would never
lose my mind over.
Not, not, not before, Any likehormonal changes were happening
in my body.
And I did mention that to thegynecologist when it just came
(21:32):
up to be time for my exam, myyearly exam.
And she's like well, I mean youcould be menopausal.
So she did do the test for theFSH level and it came back a few
days later and it was like,plus the max number that they
can give you, because I wentbeyond whatever the number was
that they just didn't record itanymore.
(21:52):
And that's supposed to meanyou're in menopause.
And she's like
Heidi (21:58):
yes
Etienne (21:58):
okay, well, why don't you make an appointment and
we'll get your IUD out and I'mlike hold on, let's not whip the
sucker out Like I.
I've heard about women who aresupposedly menopausal who still
have spotting, and that was thewhole reason why I got the IUD.
I know I can.
I can easily not get pregnant.
I've never been pregnant in mylife.
(22:19):
I know how to like control thatsituation without an IUD.
I got the IUD because ofspotting and I do not want to
have that happen again.
So I actually did find out.
Per the company who makes myIUD, I can keep it in three more
years before having it removed,and that is what I'm going to
(22:39):
do, and then for sure I willhave avoided any kind of
situational like anything thatI've been wanting to avoid
because I had way too many yearsof blood way too many.
I do not.
I don't think I deserve anymore blood None at all.
Jane (22:56):
Same.
I had very irregular periodswhen I first got them to the
point where my first visit everto a gynecologist I was bleeding
, because I had been bleedingfor four weeks straight and that
had happened to me before and Isaid, okay, that's enough of
this, I know this isn't normal.
So that was when I was 17.
(23:17):
And then later on then I hadthe same issue with spotting and
that type of stuff.
And then now in perimenopausethe irregularity of the periods
is another lovely little sideeffect, right.
So I had true to fashion I wasalmost expecting it the puberty
in reverse thing.
I did have that happen to meagain, where three weeks
(23:40):
straight or four weeks straight,then not a period for three
months you know enough to scarethe shit out of you where you
need to have pregnancy tests onhand.
I'm 51 I'm not trying to be amom again here, uh, and now I
can't remember.
I'm trying to remember my lastperiod and I can't.
I like panic when you go to thedoctor and they ask you now
(24:01):
when was the date of your lastperiod?
I'm like, does anybody know theanswer to this question?
I don't.
I don't know.
I'm thinking it's been.
It's been a couple months andI'm hoping that I just get on
the other side of this now,because it's been kind of nice
not having it and I haven't hadspotting.
(24:22):
And I too have an IUD, but itdoesn't have any hormones in it
because I have rheumatoidarthritis and you're not
supposed to engage in thehormonal therapy stuff.
It's not really good for peoplewith autoimmune diseases, so I
try to avoid that.
So mine is the Paragard, soit's just copper and I have
several years left of it in.
But I'm waiting until I'mtotally on the other side and
(24:43):
then they could take it out,because last time they had to go
on an expedition to get it outit had moved a little bit kind
of up and to the left, so theyhad to go in there with like
some tools.
It was not pleasant.
So
Etienne (24:57):
I need to ask were you awake?
When?
I mean, what did they?
Did they try to help you withsome numbing of some kind when
they went for their fishingexpedition?
For you?
Jane (25:05):
Oh, yeah, they did.
They numbed me before they wentfishing, so there was, and they
even had a nurse sit in thereand talk to me and hold my hand.
So that was actually
Etienne (25:15):
Sorry
Jane (25:16):
Yeah, they did.
She was very sweet and we madejokes and that's how you get
through those types ofuncomfortable situations.
But I definitely will celebratewhen we can take it out and
there's no more periods.
But so, heidi, your storyscares me when I know this has
happened, where you didn't haveone for a year and actually
(25:37):
Heidi and I were together.
We were together on a yoga andmeditation retreat?
Heidi (25:41):
Yeah
Jane (25:41):
and out of nowhere she's like.
I just started my period and Iwent, oh no, and I felt like it
was my fault because I was aboutto start mine.
I didn't but.
I had stuff with me and I had togive it to her because
Heidi (25:53):
yeah.
I didn't have it.
Yeah, I thought I was done.
No
Etienne (25:58):
oh my God, that's awful .
It wasn't like in the middle ofa class where you like were
wearing white yoga pants andthen
Heidi (26:03):
no
Etienne (26:04):
Okay.
Good
Heidi (26:07):
thank God, no, no, but yeah, I'm over the bleeding.
It's been 40 years, yes, andI'm with Jane Like there should
be a party at the end of this.
You know how they have babyshowers and wedding showers.
And like birthday parties,engagement parties, like, yeah,
menopause parties, like we needto make that a thing because we
(26:30):
deserve a big old party andgifts.
Etienne (26:34):
Yeah, I'm all for the party for the fact that the
bleeding has stopped.
But I have learned what thehormones actually do for the
rest of our body, that wedefinitely need them.
Like it's scary what happens ifyou you know
Heidi (26:45):
yeah
Etienne (26:45):
I mean, jane, you're just saying that it sounds like
because of your autoimmunedisorder that you're not going
to be able to.
I mean I'm guessing.
Now tell me if I'm wrong.
But does that mean you cannever go on hormone replacement
therapy then?
Jane (26:59):
I don't know if it means never.
It may have to just be reallyspecified.
You know, for my circumstancesit's not something that I've
looked into.
I know that it was recommendedthat I didn't do any kind of
hormone birth control.
After I got diagnosed, I didhormonal birth control.
(27:19):
I was on the pill for years, tothe point where when we got
married and I went off of it,brendan was a little nervous
that my personality would bedifferent.
Etienne (27:32):
He said it's going to be nervous about that.
Oh my God
Jane (27:35):
well he's.
You know what
Etienne (27:38):
I mean.
I can see the other way around.
Heidi (27:39):
It does happen
Etienne (27:40):
I can see it.
the other way around, though,because I've actually seen.
I had a roommate who went onbirth control pills when she was
living in my house and she wasin her late 30s and she got a
little nuts and immediatelyfound out she cannot take birth
control.
Like she was like what I wastalking about with how I was
(28:00):
with the labile rollercoastermood swings.
No, it was not fun, and sheimmediately just stopped and
said well, let's be on condomsfor me only, like great.
Heidi (28:12):
Well I don't they say something, or I could be wrong
that pheromones change Withbirth control pills and then so,
when women go off of them,their husbands aren't attracted
to them anymore.
Jane (28:24):
That yes
Heidi (28:25):
or something.
Yeah
Jane (28:26):
they impact that and and vice versa.
You know, and because Brendanhad only known me on birth
control, he was wondering if Iwould be different off and it
turns out I'm not, because Ican't remember it's been so many
years which one I was on, butit actually kept me pretty even
keel.
But they switched my birthcontrol one time on me and I
(28:47):
can't remember the reason why Iswitched it.
I think I was having someissues with one initially.
I think it might have probablybreakthrough bleeding, because
that was always the thing thatwould happen, and I was on
something try something,tricycline.
I can't remember what it wascalled, but for four days I was
a basket case and I had neverbeen like that before.
(29:12):
Just the wild swings up and downand crying and feeling suicidal
.
And I called my doctor and Isaid I can't take this.
It has to be this.
This is the only thing that haschanged in my life for the past
four days are these stupidpills.
It took four days for you to goa little crazy from them.
That's all it took.
And so I think with some people, your body, just your chemistry
(29:33):
, might have a volatile reactionto it, and I definitely did and
I just I think that then thehormonal swings, then a
perimenopause for me were almostmimicking that feeling, because
when I said I had an extremeindignation you know horny but
then also angry I'm like why amI doing all these things for
everybody else?
This should be my time in mylife.
(29:54):
I mean, I really was just sobitchy about it, you know, and I
didn't vocalize it, but Idefinitely I don't usually have
RBF, but I definitely
Etienne (30:05):
what's RBF?
Resting bitch face.
But wait,
Jane (30:11):
but for those
Etienne (30:12):
oh sorry, yes, for those of you who don't know what
RBF is like, I immediately waslike wait, what is that Resting
bitch face?
Yes, but wait.
Did he?
Did he notice that look thatyou were describing where you
were horny for him and at thesame time like kind of angry at
him for something?
That in that one, like, did henotice those that, the
expressions that you might'vehad?
Jane (30:36):
Yes, and he was.
Etienne (30:37):
I can't imagine like seeing your face like that and
going like what is happening,like I don't even know how I'm
supposed to react to this do Itake her to the bedroom or do I
get in the car and drive awaylike
Jane (30:51):
he may have wanted to at some times because it wouldn't
happen simultaneously, but itwould definitely happen in the
span of 10 minutes.
Wild fluctuation where I wasimagining I mean something.
He would just do somethingstupid like not clean the
counters the way that I do which, by the way, he still doesn't,
(31:12):
but it just doesn't bother me asmuch.
Etienne (31:13):
Yeah
Jane (31:14):
you know, I make sure there's no crumbs, I have a
method.
But during that time period Iwould just see something like
that and just in my mindimmediately start thinking
insane thoughts like how muchour insurance policy is worth.
That's where my mind would go
Etienne (31:32):
Wait, wait.
His life insurance policy.
Is that what you just?
Is that what you're talkingabout?
Jane (31:36):
Yes, over
Heidi (31:38):
how much would I get?
Etienne (31:40):
I don't think you're going to get the money if you
murder him Jane.
Jane (31:45):
Over crumbs.
I didn't want to murder him, Ijust thought.
You know, he is just with thetoothpaste in the sink and the
crumbs on the counter.
I just would be.
What would it be like without?
And then I would immediatelystart crying from guilt for
thinking something so horrific.
And then sometimes I would callhim at work just to check in
(32:07):
with him and say I love you.
I would just feel so incrediblyguilty
Etienne (32:09):
Because you're so guilty.
Jane (32:11):
So guilty, and then immediately want to jump his
bones when he came home.
It was just ridiculous.
I'm feeling like maybe
I felt like a crazy person .
Etienne (32:19):
I feel like there maybe there should be a menopausal
insurance policy that we cantake out for our crazy behaviors
that may result in murder.
Heidi (32:28):
Yeah, we can't be held liable.
If you piss us off
Etienne (32:36):
if we're on a roller coaster of hormones, we cannot
be in control of our actions.
It takes everything within ourpower.
Okay, so wait.
When I did tell thegynecologist and she checked my
hormone level, she's like, well,you are 50.
I was 50 something at the time,51, I think, when this happened
.
And she's like you can go onthis antidepressant that suppose
(32:58):
it was Paxil.
Pretty sure it was Paxil andit's a low dose.
So it's not the same dose thatsomebody would start Paxil if
you are using it for depressionor anxiety or whatever they use
Paxil for.
The dose for menopause is halfof that.
And so I was like, is that okay?
Like that's my option, likethat's what she gave me, that
(33:20):
was my only option.
I was like I'll try this and Iwaited the allotted amount of
time that it takes for these toactually start working, which I
think is like three or moreweeks, right, and I felt
slightly better, but not reallybecause that wasn't the problem.
The problem wasn't in my brainper se.
(33:42):
It was my lack of estrogen andtestosterone and progesterone in
my body that was causing theissues, not whatever brain
chemistry the Paxil works on.
It just might be one of thosethings like, yes, paxil might
technically work, but maybe it'sworking because placebos work
for people.
They take it and they tell youit's going to work and you're
like, okay, I'll try it and itmight work, because you're
(34:04):
taking a pill and you think it'sgoing to do something for you,
whereas I was like, is thisreally going to do anything?
Because I don't want to be onthis.
And then when I started gettingthe pellets put in me with the
hormones, which was only threemonths later, I had to then wean
myself off of the Paxil becauseit's dangerous to just stop
cold turkey.
On any of most of theseantidepressants you can have
(34:29):
horrible reactions where youmight end up hospitalized, so
that is not okay.
So I had to, like, step myselfdown slowly over time and
actually it wasn't the moodswings that sent me to go get
hormones.
I was complaining about my moodswings to my hairdresser
because I hadn't been to myhairdresser she a long time, and
when I was describing theissues I was having about my
mood swings to my hairdressershe said to me well, I have a
(34:50):
bunch of clients who are aroundyour age who got their hormones
tested and they went and gothormone replacement therapy.
And she told me the name of theplace here in our city and I
was like, well, I think I got totry that.
I got an appointment, I went andhad a consult.
I saw the book on the tablecalled Estrogen Matters.
They told me some things aboutestrogen and female hormones in
general that I didn't know about.
(35:11):
And I went ahead and got thatbook while I was waiting for my
appointment to get my labs drawnfor the first time and I read
that book fast.
That thing was available at thelibrary.
I was like, yep, gonna read itright now.
And I literally read it withina few days and I was shocked by
what I learned and justhorrified that back in the year
(35:32):
2000, the Women's HealthInitiative basically did a study
that caused every woman who wason hormone replacement therapy
to believe that they were allgoing to get breast cancer
because they were gettinghormones.
And wasn't true
Heidi (35:42):
it wasn't true
Etienne (35:43):
no, and it's still out there.
They're still.
So I work with a lot of veryyoung nurses I work with like
nurses in their 20s and they'vejust come out of nursing school
and they still they think you'renot allowed to have hormones,
like they think that.
So that means it's still beingtaught
being taughtThat's, that's yeah, that's
(36:05):
criminal,
yeah, and
Heidi (36:06):
cause there's so many women that have to fight for it
now.
Etienne (36:10):
Yeah.
And yeah, and it's not coveredby insurance.
My pallets are not covered byinsurance.
I have to pay for that out ofpocket.
I don't care, I need them, butyes, it's not covered.
So I think we need to go toCongress and start lobbying that
this is something we need andyou know what?
It's going to protect us fromall kinds of things that we all
(36:31):
worry about having happened tous as we age as a woman, which I
totally want to cover this inanother episode, so we'll get a
nitty gritty of that anothertime.
Heidi (36:41):
Yeah, I'm afraid that they're just gonna slowly take
away any hormone replacement.
Etienne (36:47):
If they do, I'm just gonna keep paying for it out of
pocket.
If they try to take it all theway away, completely out of the
country, I'll have to go toMexico and get my pellets or
something or Canada or whatever.
I will do whatever.
I'm not going off of them nowthat I've had them.
I do not want to go back.
Heidi (37:02):
Women across the country would be doing that yeah.
Etienne (37:05):
But actually the symptom that prompted me to I
need to do something more thanthis ridiculous little Paxil
pill that's doing nothing for mewas I had two incidences of
incontinence where I was doingabsolutely nothing and urine
leaked out of me.
One time I was just standing atmy back door not moving and I
(37:26):
felt it.
It felt like when you have yourperiod, like the very very
first flow that comes out.
That's what it felt like andI'm like wait, did I just get my
period?
I checked and nope, that wasurine.
And I'm like what is happening?
I was under the impression thatI was never going to have
urinary incontinence as an olderwoman because I never had a
child, so I thought I'm safe.
(37:47):
Turns out I'm not safe.
That muscle is affected by lowestrogen and the other thing
that happened that even worsethan that was it was happening
during intercourse.
So I would find out afterhaving sex with my then
boyfriend that there was someurine on him, like it might have
(38:07):
just been a drop, but it wasenough for me to notice and I
had to tell him like, yeah, sothis is happening and I'm very
sorry and I'm going to doeverything I can to find out how
to fix this.
Within a week of starting thehormones I had sex and nothing
happened.
It already had worked.
It's that fast
Jane (38:27):
that quickly.
Heidi (38:28):
My head was already better too.
Etienne (38:30):
My mind was fine, my body had responded yes.
That's how quickly things canturn around for you.
Jane (38:38):
Thank you for talking about that and I think that a
lot of people feel veryembarrassed about some of the
things that we've been talkingabout and when it happens to
them, it just feels like no onecould possibly be going through
this.
I'm very grateful that I'mgoing through this stage of my
life in the age of the Internet,because for all of the dark
corners of the Internet meGoogling why am I so horny in my
(39:01):
mid-40s?
Which is just a lifesaver
Etienne (39:03):
What are you gonna do
Jane (39:04):
like that's
Etienne (39:05):
uh in the old days.
What are you gonna go to thelibrarian and ask them?
Jane (39:09):
oh, oh my god, I couldn't imagine asking my local library
like, excuse me, can you directme to where the horny 40?
You're like that,
Etienne (39:17):
horny and 40
Jane (39:18):
that's kind of.
I think that might have evenbeen the name of one of the
blogs I came across.
But like people talking aboutthis, I think is really
important.
And the incontinence thing Idid have a baby and I didn't
have that until recently.
It's not a big issue, but if Ihaven't gone to the bathroom
recently and I'm laughing a lotand I feel a sneeze coming on
Etienne (39:42):
oh no
Jane (39:43):
that's the trifecta.
I gotta, I gotta go to thebathroom.
Etienne (39:47):
Wait, do you literally laugh and sneeze at the same
time?
Does that happen to you?
Like, is that possible?
Jane (39:53):
Well, it's South Carolina in March and so, yes, the pollen
is so gross that that that hashappened to me a couple of times
just in the past three days,where I'm talking with somebody
and I'm laughing with mydaughter or with my husband and
I also have had a cup of tea andI feel a sneeze coming on and I
(40:13):
have to excuse myself because Iknow it's going to be an issue
and that wasn't an issue just acouple of years ago.
Etienne (40:24):
Every time I go to Costco I see an older lady,
older like in her 60s, possibly70s with a giant bulk size of
poise I think it's called poise.
They're panty liners for ladieswho release some urine
unexpectedly.
And that just made me so sadbecause I know what happened to
(40:46):
me and I know how I fixed it andthey can't fix it now.
I literally can't like go onhormones.
If it's been more than I think,five years that you've hit
menopause.
It's actually not safe for youto go on hormones at that point.
There's a safe window, and thatwas how that Women's Health
Initiative study messed with us,because they use women way too
old way past menopause, and ofcourse that is bad for you.
(41:08):
You've got to do it in ashorter amount of time.
Heidi (41:12):
Yeah, it was a very flawed study and they had to
retract a lot of this stuff too.
Etienne (41:17):
Yeah, but it's too late .
Heidi (41:19):
The media sensationalized a part of it because they had
to stop the study because acouple of the women but they
were the older ones yeah, likeyou said, that shouldn't have
been in the study to begin with.
Etienne (41:32):
No, no, no, it definitely should not have been
in the study.
No so annoying.
I don't understand.
I would love to know what themotivation was behind that.
Was somebody really worriedthat we were going to get breast
cancer?
Or was somebody for some reasonagainst women having hormones
past menopause?
I don't understand, like whatthe purpose of that was,
(41:57):
honestly.
Jane (42:00):
We may never know, but you're inspiring me to have a
conversation with my doctorabout this.
An autoimmune thing.
Etienne (42:07):
I want all of us to, if we can read the book that I
read called Estrogen Matters,and then we're going to really
dive into this.
Heidi (42:16):
And that's our show.
You've been listening to theWomen Are Plotting.
If you have a story you'd liketo share or have any comments,
we'd love to hear from you.
Email us at info@thewomenareplottingcom, and, of
course, you can find us on allthe socials.
Thanks and until next time.
Be safe and be excellent toeach other.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!