Friendships CHANGE… But THIS Is How You Protect Your Peace
This week on Therapists Unhinged, we’re getting raw, real, and unfiltered about one of life’s toughest topics: friendships and boundaries.
Dr. Robin, TJ, and Nella get vulnerable about:
✔ What healthy friendships actually look like (spoiler: it’s not the front-door friends)
✔ How to spot a backdoor friend vs. an energy taker
✔ The hidden grief of outgrowing friendships
✔ When to set boundaries, when to walk away, and when to fight for a friendship
✔ Navigating adult friendships, who stays, who goes, and why it’s OK
You’ll laugh, reflect, and probably rethink some friendships after this one. Whether you have struggled with toxic friendships, felt guilty about cutting people off, or wondered why some people drain you, this episode gives you the real talk you have been needing.
Therapists Unhinged is where mental health gets real. Hosted by licensed therapists who tell it like it is, this podcast dives deep into the messy, meaningful, and hilarious parts of being human. From mastering resilience to navigating the chaos of everyday life, we bring raw conversations, expert insights, and unfiltered honesty...no jargon, no BS.
New episodes drop weekly. Subscribe, leave a review, and come unhinge with us.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
TJ (00:00):
I've learned and I've developed those
healthy boundaries for me.
'cause I've had to say thatto a few friends in the past.
Like, Hey, this friendshipis not working out.
And I just think that it'sbest that we just part
Dr. Robin (00:09):
ways.
When you have the growth mindsetand you know that your path
is where it is and it is atough path, but it's your path.
Some people are not going tobe on it with you all the time.
Because their path is different,and even on that side of it, it
is hard to let go of friends.
Nella (00:36):
Well, hello everyone.
Hello.
Hello.
Welcome to episode 14of Therapists Unhinged.
And today we're back withjust the three of us.
We've had a lot ofguests on the show, and
we'll keep having them.
Um, but today we're gonnabe talking about something
that I think everyonecan relate to, which is
(00:58):
friendships and boundaries.
Ooh,
TJ (01:02):
all.
It's a big deal.
It's, that is a big deal.
A deal because,
Nella (01:05):
you know, hey, we're social beings,
so we all, you know.
I have friends, weinteract with people.
And then I know one big thingthat a lot of people have a
problem with is boundarieswith those friendships.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know.
Tj, what do youhave to say about,
TJ (01:22):
you gotta start with you.
I already knew that.
Like why did I knowTJ was, I was ready.
Oh.
The
Nella (01:28):
thing that you see, like your, your clients go
through, like when it comesto friendships and creating
boundaries or issues that arise.
Dr. Robin (01:35):
Well, actually, hold on.
Can we just start with, canwe like, do a foundation of
like, what is even a healthyfriendship look like, I guess.
Maybe start thereor should we not?
Well, I mean,
Nella (01:43):
that's all subjective.
Really.
True, true.
So, I mean, subjectivelyspeaking, I would say
a friendship means.
Um, someone who is, youknow, going to be there
for you when you need them.
Is it, you know, youenjoy being around them.
You en you can pick upthe phone and they're
dependable, you know, loyal.
Those, those are justsome traits that I see.
(02:05):
Absolute.
See.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And friendship.
What about you?
Anything you wanna add to that?
Dr. Robin (02:09):
And that's what I was gonna say.
But also I think one thing isthat it's a give and a take.
Nella (02:12):
Oh, absolutely.
It's a give and a take.
And that's what
Dr. Robin (02:14):
I was gonna say.
'cause I was thinking likesometimes let's, you know, let's
make sure we set that foundationeven though it is different.
Mm-hmm.
You know, because Ithink a lot of times.
Just even with that, likepeople's definitions of Right.
TJ (02:27):
And in mutual respect, of course, you know?
Right.
Um, something that I sharewith my clients, especially
those who struggle with,you know, setting boundaries
and friendships is look, youknow, it's a give and take.
It doesn't look the same though.
Because I'm, I'm, I'm abig girl on like seasons.
So I go, this may be your seasonto give and it may be the other
(02:48):
person's season to just receive.
So there's a pouring and thepouring into, but then there's
also a pouring out and sometimesthose, those friendships
may not look balanced.
Mm-hmm.
To, you know, others.
But it is in certainways, because I may,
this season, I may needsomething from you, right.
Because I'm going through somuch and you are there for me.
(03:09):
So it's mutual.
Then there may be a season whenyou're going through something
and that, you know, I, you,you need something from me
or I need something from you.
So it's definitelybuilt on mutual respect.
Um, you know, setting healthyboundaries look like, you know,
giving me space, you know, andalso having space for yourself
(03:29):
and just knowing when to.
Not necessarily draw the line,but just knowing how far to go.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Learning that person.
It's a relationship.
It's, it's a relationshipthat you learn, that person
learn their, their nos,their yeses, their gives,
their takes, and vice versa.
So that's where that mutual,you know, respect comes from.
Nella (03:48):
I like that.
That's very true.
The mutual respect is, I think,key, you know, and, and for me
in, in my age, you know, 41 40,
Dr. Robin (03:57):
she's a baby.
Little embryo.
You little baby.
Nella (04:02):
So in my, you know, experience, um.
Of course we look atfriendships differently at
different stages of our life.
Of course, that's a huge thing.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, when you'rein elementary school, you
know, children look at it as,you know, their playmates,
someone fun to be aroundand things like that.
And then as you get intoadolescence, there's
more of that loyaltyexpectation I think, that
(04:23):
they have on their friends.
Um, you know, and,and mutual respect.
And then I think whenyou get into adulthood.
Things start to reallyshift, especially I would
say, like for me and fromwhat I see with clients is
like this shift of, okay,people are going in different
directions, maybe in their life.
Are you gonna come along withme and have, you know, go along
(04:46):
with me on my journey, eventhough my journey may not look
the same as yours and, youknow, are you going to, you
know, be there when I need you?
Mm-hmm.
You know, you may not be ableto talk all the time, but
you know, or see each other.
But I know that I candepend on you if I need you.
Absolutely.
Um, and I've learned, you know,friendships, kind of like what
you said with certain seasons.
I think people too are.
(05:08):
Certain circumstances,they're friends.
So you may have a friend thatyou like to travel with, they're
really fun to travel with.
But you know what, um, everyday you don't wanna invite
them over your house every day.
Right.
Or there may be that friendshipthat, you know, you can call
up and go have a dinner,dinner with, but maybe that
friend won't be like, as muchfun as say, like spontaneous.
Like, Hey, do you wanna goto New York this weekend?
(05:29):
You know, that may notbe the friend for you.
So I think I've learned tod you know, differentiate.
Yep.
Friends fordifferent things too.
TJ (05:38):
I'm smiling because you're reminded me of so much.
Like it, like you have friendsthat are acquaintances, you have
friends that are associates,Charles, you have close friends,
and I'm, I, and then, um, you,and like you said, you have
friends that you will sharelike your intimate stuff with,
but then you have anotherfriend who you may just be
all fun and games with, but.
(06:01):
I call the most intimatefriends, the ones that you know,
they're gonna be there for you.
You're gonna be there for, Icall them backdoor friends.
Now backdoor friends arethe ones that if you, if
you take a house right.
And you enter from the backdoor, people can't really
see you coming 'cause you'recoming from the back door.
So a backdoor friendis that friend that
comes in from the back.
She doesn't care howmessy your house is.
(06:21):
She doesn't care if youknow the kids are like,
you know, disheveled.
She doesn't care ifshe's fighting with
the husband or not.
She just comes in and shedoesn't judge and she just
sits there and she justwait until you're done.
And then she's like, okay.
How can I help you?
Mm-hmm.
So those backdoor friends arethose ones where, yes, you
have already developed most ofthose boundaries that you need.
(06:42):
Those are the ones that youhave carried through with you
through the roughest of times.
Maybe you've experienceda divorce and they've been
there, you know, maybe theyhave and you've been there.
But those are those friendswhere it's like through thick
and thin, it doesn't matter.
We may have disagreements,but at the end of the day,
we still love each other.
I love that and, andthat's what I like.
I like friends where I canjust really be honest and
go, you know what, girl?
(07:02):
You really need to get ittogether because you're
like, you know, hey, andI see you falling apart.
And if I can't share that witha friend that I call a backdoor
friend or a friend that I calla personal friend, then are we
really friends And vice versa?
Tell me when I'm like,you know, I'm unhinged.
Tell me, you know, Hey girl,you need to dial it back a
little bit and I'll receivethat because I know what kind
(07:23):
of friend you are and what kindof friend you've always been.
I like that.
Dr. Robin (07:28):
I mean, the back door, that is so cool because.
I've never heard that and I lovethat because again, it's like,
you know when you come intothe front door, you're a guest.
Bingo.
Yeah.
And I was just like going, Iliterally am picturing like
the house and thinking about.
TJ know, both of y'all know,like, if anything hap I'll be
like, I don't care what doorit is, I'm coming in, like I'm
(07:50):
coming, you know, y'all windowthat like, I will be there
swimming through around thepool door, whatever we need
to do coming through the roof,I'll be Santa Claus, you know?
But I do, I thought thatwas, that was such that I
know I, I'm gonna, I'm gonnastart to think about that.
The back door.
I know I was just like going,where is she going with that?
But it is, I mean.
I always say that, youknow, I have a ton of
acquaintances and a very, youknow, close set of friends.
(08:13):
And even with my, because I'vereally, I had like my, like
friends like for a long time.
But even with them, youknow, there are different
things that even we doand have shared together.
And also it's like.
Just right before I got inhere working with one of my
young clients and we weretalking about friendships.
That's why when you saidthat, I was like, oh my
(08:33):
gosh, we just did that.
And you know, one thing thatI know that I have said to a
lot of my clients lately islike, you know, do you think
it's possible that you haveoutgrown that relationship?
TJ (08:43):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Robin (08:44):
And because, you know, again, it's like when
you have the growth mindsetand you know that your path
is where it is and it is atough path, but it's your path.
Some people are not going tobe on it with you all the time.
'cause their path is different.
And even on that side of it, itis hard to let go of friends.
(09:06):
Mm-hmm.
That have been there in certainthings because there's like,
well I don't want to leave them.
I can't not be me.
And so even with that, Imean there's a lot of just
even understanding the mutualrespect of I love you, but I,
I love me and I, you know, youalways be a part of my life.
And if you show up overthe road here, then great.
(09:28):
But I think there's also thatunderstanding too, boundaries
within yourself and who.
You know, is gonnacontinue or not continue.
Absolutely.
And being okay with it.
Well, and also you saidsomething too, and I know that
we talk a lot, is that Yeah,you know, I'm on big person
on, you know, love speaks thetruth and love is not just all
about allowing anybody to dowhatever they want all the time.
(09:51):
That's not right.
I mean, that's not love becauseto me it's like when you love
somebody and you know thatperson and you know yourself,
like you were talking aboutlike TJ and I know all three
of us and we do, we backdoor,we have, you gotta be to
do what we do, you know?
And sometimes sure we getfrustrated and you know, we get
and we just go, you know what?
That's okay.
That's okay 'causewe're in this together.
(10:11):
But I love thisperson, you know?
And, and I know, you know,you guys tell me all the
time, okay, Robin, like,you know, or this or that.
We go, t you know, I'm justletting you know, are you good?
Because this, I didn'teven realize that was
going on, you know?
And it's because it's likewhen you love your people,
you don't want them to hurt.
You don't want them to godown a path that, now granted
they're still gonna takethat for whatever they take
(10:31):
that, but to me, I'm like.
The truth is, I seeyou better than that.
I want you better than that.
I don't want you hurting.
And if like, let's say you'redoing something, whatever
to cope or whatever, that'snot healthy, you know?
And then it's still a boundary.
Do I step in, do I not?
You know, even with that,like how would y'all handle
that if you had one ofyour back door friends?
(10:53):
Mm-hmm.
And you know, he or she'sreally going through it.
Like
TJ (10:58):
the only thing that comes to mind for me right now.
'cause sometimes.
There are times where you justwanna cut through the chase.
You just wanna go in head on.
It's like, hey, you know?
But then there are times whereeven though it may be a backdoor
friend, it just depends onhow well that friend receives
stuff and how they mm-hmm.
And how they receive it.
So sometimes you can justtell a little story, right?
And you can include them inthe story without telling
(11:20):
them they're in the story tosee what their take on it is.
And, and I'm reminded of that.
I'm, I'm, I'm gonna gobiblical real quick here.
There's a story in the,in the, in the Bible where
King David was like doingall this crazy stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And Nathan, the prophet cameto him and he said, and Nathan
gave him a story and he said,Hey David, what do you think
about this, that, and the third?
And he goes, oh, a person thatdoes that should be killed.
(11:42):
And he goes, who would dosuch a thing like that?
And Nathan says,well, that man is you.
Mm-hmm.
So sometimes you haveto like tell a story or
you know, just at least.
You know, set the stage mm-hmm.
For what you wanna say, becauseyou know it, again, it depends
on what's going on, what,what it is that you, you, you
know, you want to talk to thisperson, your friend about, and,
and just take it from there.
(12:02):
But then there are those timeswhere it's like, you gotta
go, Hey look, I just gottacut through the chase there.
You know what's going on.
Or, I see you here and I knowthat's not normally you, but
right now this is you andwe need to try to fix it.
Or what can we do to fix it?
Nella (12:17):
Yeah, and that made me think too of like, I had
a childhood friend I'd knownsince I was 12, and you know,
she went on her own path.
She got in, you know, I got,I obviously got married,
had kids, well, her path wasdifferent, you know, she didn't
get married or have kids.
She was in relationships,but she never did that well.
Eventually when she wasin this unfortunate, toxic
relationship and I wasseeing her through this and
(12:39):
I was trying to be there forher, um, she got sucked in.
He was a complete hardcoredefinition textbook of
narcissistic personality.
And, you know, with thatisolation and, and all the stuff
that she was going through, itgot to a point to where it was
exhausting for me to continuegoing down the same things that
he was doing and, you know,unfaithful and all this stuff.
(13:00):
She ended up movingvery far away.
And her and I still keptin touch, but not as deep.
Well, here we are probably,you know, it's about a year
or so after she's finally gotoutta this relationship and she
needed to do all these thingsto, to have help and reached
out to me and I jumped onthat train and, and was there
(13:20):
to help her because she, Istill cared about her, right.
I just couldn't go along onthat journey with her anymore
'cause I couldn't do anything.
I had to let her.
Figure it out.
Absolutely.
She figured it out and now she'shealing and, but she is saying
constantly like how gratefulshe is for the friendship.
That I was the, one ofthe only ones that was
really there for her.
And now that she's healingand, and got rid of this
(13:42):
horrible person and herlife, I'm there for her.
Now we're like, we'vealmost like reconnected.
Mm-hmm.
Our friendship.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And so I, it makes me thinklike maybe someone is.
That season is done, but maybeit'll come back around again
and leaving that door open.
Yeah.
Like it doesn't have to endbadly, but, um, if you do
have a different journeyand a different path.
(14:03):
Letting that kind of happen,and then you never know what
could bring you back together.
TJ (14:07):
I like that because, you know, and Robin said
it earlier, if, if you'retrying to help those kind of
friends and, but at the sametime you're losing yourself.
Mm-hmm.
You gotta know how to separateand that's a boundary and
say, Hey, that's my boundary.
Yep.
And, and you know,we talked about this.
I've tried to help as muchas I can, and sometimes you
do have those friends wherethey appreciate the help,
but they don't, they stilldon't accept the help, right?
(14:28):
Mm-hmm.
And until they're really ready.
Until they're fully ready.
And so I believe that you haveto like park that friendship
like you did, park thatfriendship and say, Hey,
I'm always here for you,but I just can't keep going
through the motions with you.
Mm-hmm.
Because I'm losingmyself, you know?
And so when, when you do findwhat it is that you want or
you know what direction youwanna take, I'll be here.
(14:50):
And so that's whatthat sounds like.
It's great parking,that friendship.
Mm-hmm.
And making sure that you keepyourself, you know, you don't
lose yourself while they'retrying to find themselves.
Nella (15:01):
And I don't know if you, this has happened to either
one of you, but like I knowone thing for me that I've
seen, and I've, I've actuallyspoken to other business
owners, um, you know, that thishappened to too, is like when
you go onto a different path,there's gonna be people that.
Are either, I feel likeone gonna go on that
journey with you, right?
They're gonna go along with youand they're gonna support you,
(15:23):
and they're gonna be one of yourbiggest cheerleaders, right?
Absolutely.
Then there's gonna be thepeople that will keep speaking
to you and be there for you,but it's for their own agenda.
Like, Ooh, I wanna keepher on my back pocket now.
Mm-hmm.
For when I need her again.
And then there's the onesthat are gonna be the haters,
which you would call haters.
Oh, yeah.
That are gonna be there.
Like, what is shedoing over there?
She's, she's doingwhat over everything.
(15:44):
Right?
She's doing what over there?
Eat some popcorn water.
Right?
Yeah.
And then those are theones that are kind of like
disappear because for somereason they don't, uh,
like what you're doing.
I don't know.
That happen's because they don't
Dr. Robin (15:53):
like themselves.
But remember I said, youjust said that literally
I have written down herewhat we just talked about.
I said, you got your energygivers and your energy takers.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what I said.
As your path goes, Isaid, here's the one.
The givers are there regardless.
You don't have tosee 'em every day.
And they're, and they'recelebrating you because that's
what makes up they love you.
And again, but it's thetakers and those are the
(16:14):
ones, and that's, thoseare the ones that hurt.
Because it's like, again,when you know that you are
doing everything in yourpower and you love everybody
and you, you're authentic.
That's the hard part, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And I know that.
Learned it.
We all have, yeah,
TJ (16:28):
we all have learned it.
Yes, we've all beenhurt by certain friends.
'cause you know, just atransparent moment, like I
struggled with in my early adultyears, twenties, early thirties,
I struggled with friendships.
You know, and I'll be honest,I struggled with women
friendships because, youknow, my hit, it had always
been hurt, painful, you know,gossipy people, you know, and
(16:51):
different things like that.
So, but the older I got when Istarted setting my boundaries.
And my boundaries also,uh, differ when it comes
to different friendships.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Because some peoplewill take advantage of
you or they will try.
So you have to set a certainkind of boundaries with those
people, you know, and thensome people will fit, they
will mentally drain you, andit's like, wait a minute, my
social battery is depleted.
(17:12):
Like I, I have maybe 15 minutesto give you on the phone, and
that's it because I need tostart making dinner or I need
to really focus on other things.
But.
It took me a while to reallylike, connect with women and,
and, and create those kind offriendships that I know that
I don't have to worry about mybusiness being thrown over the
(17:35):
street or them wanting somethingfrom me that, you know.
They shouldn't, youknow, your agenda, right?
Like having anagenda that say that.
Because I always, always,always like, what are you
come for that hidden agenda?
What are you coming for?
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I'll be honest,you know, through, through a
lot of prayer, you know, um, andjust God revealing to me, okay,
this is, this is a friendship.
(17:55):
Like you can take you,you know, it's okay.
You know?
So I, I've, I've learnedand I've developed those,
you know, those, thosehealthy boundaries for me.
And when I say, Hey, you knowwhat, this isn't working out.
Because I've had to say thatto a, you know, a few, that
was gonna be my question.
Like, Hey, this friendshipis not working out.
Um, it, you know, and I justthink that it's best that we
(18:16):
just part ways and I've donethat, you know, I've done
Dr. Robin (18:18):
it too.
Yeah.
You have to now.
And, and even though, and I knowwe talked about relationships
a few weeks ago, and, andI'm telling right now, I
almost feel like I can handlebreaking up in a relationship
more than I can a friendship.
Because friendships, tome, they're so few and far
between, you know, becauseeverybody's got their thing.
But like you said, even youknow, this person and you know.
Letting them kind of go dotheir thing, even when you
(18:40):
go, just gonna sit back.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and ithurts, you know?
And then when they come backand, but it's almost like,
I'm so glad that you werestable and you did everything
because that was almost likethe basis that she needed to
go, wait a minute, you knowwhat, I'm, I'm not doing what
I'm supposed to be doing, but.
You know, tj, you know, again,thank you for sharing that.
(19:01):
And we all know, I mean,me coming from athletics
and everything else, Ialways was with the guys.
And so even coming here, and Iknow with Nella, um, I always
talk about, you know, ourinterview and how funny it was.
And I told her, I said, oh mygosh, there's all girls here.
Like, I don't knowhow to do this.
I dunno what to do.
I wasn't in no board.
You know what I mean?
And I was just like, and evenin my head thinking like.
(19:23):
I'm not really girly, you know,I mean like I'm literally,
before we started this and I'mlike, look at y'all's nails.
Oh my God.
You know?
And I'm looking, going,yeah, I've always been
coaching so there's no nails.
And I mean, even just learningthat and you know, but I
think a lot of it was justthat, like TJ said, whatever
her situation, but mine wasjust, I just didn't know.
I didn't know howto like be a girl.
(19:44):
Like, it just didn'tmake sense to me.
I mean, I'm a girl,but I mean like those
things just, you don't.
I don't know.
I don't get my hair.
I, I don't know.
It's just, so I think I wasalways just nervous, you
know, always nervous aroundwomen because there was a lot
of things that they talkedabout that I just didn't do.
Like, you know, I wasonly married a short time.
I've been a single mom.
Like, I just do a lotof things on my own.
(20:06):
So it was kind of like.
I don't know how to do this,but I will tell you that,
you know, being here withall these wonderful women,
wonderful women, oh my gosh.
Mm-hmm.
I mean our, you know,I know when TJ and I do
interviews, like we justtell 'em how amazing and
empowering, you know.
That, that these women are, thatwe get to work with, you know?
And even the women that I getto work with as clients, it has
(20:28):
been so, like, it's actuallytaught me a lot and how to be
a little softer in some areas.
'cause I think what you weretalking about is the readiness
factor, is that sometimeseven when we see our friends,
you know, sometimes we haveto sit back and go because.
You know, are they evenready to hear this?
Nella (20:45):
And I think too, it makes me think of, we talked
a lot about expectationsthat we have on Oh, yes.
Mm-hmm.
Different people.
Mm-hmm.
I think too, the expectationsis a big piece of friendships.
Like absolutely.
You know, what is it thatyou're expecting of them?
Are you, are you expecting themto give what you're giving?
You know, good.
Are you, that's good.
Gonna expect you knowthem to be loyal.
Are you gonna expect them tobe there when you need them?
(21:06):
Like really, whatare the expectations?
Because unfortunately,sometimes, and I hear this with
clients, you know and stuff,it's like your expectations
need to be lower initially untilthey have proven themselves
that they're gonna be thisloyal or that, you know.
Consistent.
They've showed that consistencythroughout your friendship.
Right.
Because a lot of people I knowfor me that was one of my big
things growing up is I alwaysexpected people to give what I'm
(21:27):
giving into the relationship andit, and I've learned the hard
way, but people don't do that.
And that was my faultfor automatically putting
high, high expectations.
Mm-hmm.
On friendships.
So I know I tell my clients thattoo, when they're like going
through something or like, youknow, let's say they just become
a mom and you know, they're theonly ones with kids now, and
(21:48):
how, you know, the expectationsof her friends inviting her
and, you know, things like that.
I, I, I hear a lot and it'slike, okay, well what are
the expectations that youhave set for this friendship
now that you've transitionedto a different role?
Mm-hmm.
In that, you know, in your life
TJ (22:02):
or, so that is a very big piece because you do have
to know those expectations.
And like you said, theymay look different mm-hmm.
From friendships, which iswhat, what I was sta stating
earlier about like, youknow, how you pour into your
friend may not be the way shepours back into your heat.
Mm-hmm.
Pours back into you.
But if you know the expectationsupfront, then you're not
(22:24):
disappointed at the results.
Yep.
You
Dr. Robin (22:26):
know?
Well, and also I always say likeI, again, if I have a client
coming to me and going, Hey Dr.
Robin, like can you fix my car?
I mean, I Are you gas in it?
You know?
But don't be mad with mebecause I can't fix your car
'cause I'm not that friend.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what I'm saying.
So it's like, yes,you gotta know too.
(22:49):
Like, you know what, again,this is my friend I travel with.
Nella (22:52):
Yep.
Dr. Robin (22:53):
I'm not gonna give her this because that's not fair
to her or him because that'snot their role in my life.
Nella (23:00):
And the acceptance that you may not be everyone's.
That, that person for everybody.
Exactly.
Like in every, every situation.
Exactly.
So I've learned that peoplehaving those expectations
on me, inviting them tocertain things and, oh, why
didn't I get to go to that?
Or Why didn't youtell me about this?
Oh, I didn't know thatwas going on with you.
I, I had no idea.
That's been goingon for six months.
And I'm like, I justdidn't share that.
(23:22):
And it wasn't, it was like thatperson was not that person for
that circumstance, you know?
And so that's too is, is.
TJ (23:30):
You're right about that.
I, I had, I met this,um, woman, it, it's been
like maybe two years now.
And when I first met her,our con we hit it all,
our conversation was good.
And, and then she goes,oh, I already know we're
just gonna be best friends.
And I go, uh, back it up.
No, we're not Uhhuh.
I'm not lookingfor a best friend.
Mm-hmm.
Like, that's not gonna happen.
But we remained friends forthat duration of whatever
(23:53):
it was that connected us.
And it's not like we're notfriends now, but I haven't
talked to her in like.
Not at all this year.
So you know that that'sanother thing too.
It's like sometimes peoplego, when they say, oh,
we're gonna be best friends.
Like no, we're not.
I just made what is theirdefinition of best friends?
Right.
What is your definition?
Because I,
Dr. Robin (24:12):
yeah, no, so that's what I was just gonna, that
was about one of my questionsis that codependency, and
remember we talked abouttrauma, bonds in relationships,
but I mean friendships too.
There is that, you know,it was funny 'cause when
you had said before, like.
We were trying to just define ahealthy relationship and it was,
they're gonna be there for me,they're gonna be there for me.
(24:33):
And I had a client I workedwith and she goes, oh my gosh.
Like I don't know what to dobecause now that I'm over here
on this side and I have thisfriend and I love this friend,
and you always hear the but
Nella (24:47):
mm-hmm.
Dr. Robin (24:48):
I go, but here's the thing.
As you level up and asyour circumstances and
everything changes.
You change and you can stilllove that person, but you're
not operating from that anymore.
Nella (25:00):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Robin (25:01):
But you can't get mad with them because
they're still there.
But that is still I think,a boundary of like, okay,
but you know, I do love her,but I also know who she is.
And I'm not that anymore.
Right.
You know, and then handleit with grace and you
know, 'cause sometimesit's just like, oh my gosh.
And, but then you get intothat guilty like, why am
I, I'm not anything better.
(25:21):
And I'm like, but even that andnot, 'cause you said acceptance.
Mm-hmm.
Self-acceptance, knowingwho you are, knowing
your own boundaries.
Nella (25:29):
Yep.
And I'm guilty of being thatand well, I'm the first person
to say, that is not for me.
I am not that friend that youwanna take with you to there.
Like I have, I have some, uh,I would say one of my closest,
closest friends, um, heryoungest is I think 11 or 12.
And of course, youknow, my youngest is 18.
I am so far past a little kid.
Annoying stage.
Like, I don't wanna bearound your damn kids.
(25:49):
I don't wanna be onkids on vacation.
She don't like your kids.
Don't be have kids.
I don't want yourdamn kids around me.
So my, she the truth boss lady.
Seriously?
So, and I love my kids andI used to love little kids,
but I have enough of them.
Alright.
You don't
TJ (26:03):
have the patience anymore.
That's what, and Rob is a weird,I have like, this is so great.
Nella (26:09):
So, so I have some friends with the
little ones, right?
Mm-hmm.
And I have some crazy friends.
You know who you are out there?
Who decided to have a, ababy in your forties now?
Alright, you're busted.
But
Dr. Robin (26:19):
I do not want that wine.
Nella (26:21):
Listen, keep that wine from me.
Listen, don't, I don't wannabe around for the little
1-year-old birthday parties.
I'm sorry.
That's not me.
So I have friends who, like Isaid, one of my closest friends,
her little girl's, 12, shejust had like a birthday party.
I wasn't invited.
I was like, you don'thave to invite me.
And you didn't feelbad, bad at all.
Right?
And I know she loves me,but she's like, now I
know you don't like kids.
I'm like, listen, Iam not heartbroken.
I will send her a Venmo.
And that is a birthday gift.
(26:42):
You know, she can goshopping or whatever.
Like that's a perfectexample of what we just say.
That's what I mean.
Exactly.
You know, she goes on cruisessometimes when she takes,
they take all their kidsand I'm like, how many of
you bring in your kids?
'cause that's not my cruise.
I don't wanna go becausewhen I'm on a cruise, I stay
away from the kids zone.
I like, I mean, I love it.
Reality, love mean, and Isay that I raise my head
like, that's not for me.
Don't invite me.
(27:02):
Mm-hmm.
You know, same thingwith people like.
Like, you know, I still havefriends who are like into
like going out every weekendand bar hopping mm-hmm.
And doing all that.
'cause they're like, Ihave a lot of friends who
don't have any kids either.
Their kids are adultsand they actually go
drinking with their kids.
And um, 'causethey're all older now.
Mm-hmm.
That's not me.
I don't wanna do that.
And.
So they got, they got over.
(27:23):
They're not inviting meanymore, which is fine.
'cause I'm like, I'm notgonna go, so you don't need
to invite me to those things.
Right.
So they know
TJ (27:28):
your expectations.
They know my expectationswhen it comes to that.
Like, and I
Nella (27:30):
don't get hurt.
Yeah.
It's like, okay, pleasego out bar hopping.
I just do not need aninvite, so I'm not gonna
TJ (27:35):
go.
Right.
Right.
Now on the flip side of that,my kids are grown, but I have
grandkids and so some of myfriends have, well, like one
of my, my good friends now,she's just now, well, she's
just now having her grandkids.
And they're like toddlers.
And my grandkids theyoungest, it's like five, but
hers are like baby babies.
(27:56):
But we connect on thatlevel, another level now.
Mm-hmm.
Because that is another levelof our friendship because
we now have conversation asit relates to the grandkids.
But I do have friends whothey don't have grandkid.
And it's like, if I'mhaving my grandkids for the
weekend and I wanna take'em to the park or whatever,
I can't call them becausethey don't have grandkids.
Yeah.
They're not gonna wanna come.
(28:17):
Exactly.
So I, I, I agree with that.
It's like when you know yourexpectations for the friends
that you have and the thingsthat they do, and vice versa,
Dr. Robin (28:25):
you're good.
TJ (28:26):
Yeah.
Dr. Robin (28:26):
And it actually inadvertently takes a lot of
pressure off of other peoplelot, trust me, because they're
like, oh my God, do we.
I'm good.
I'm tired, I'm grown.
I love you.
Y'all have a great time.
Nella (28:38):
That's it.
Yes.
You know, and that evenreminds me of like another end.
So like, um, I would say likemy best, best, best friend
she is like my ride or die.
My backdoor friend, I'mgonna call her that.
Her name's Rachel.
If she's listening, shebetter be listening.
Hi Rachel.
Hi, Rachel.
Rachel, you don't hear this.
You, Rachel.
Hey, Rachel.
Oh, you.
Dr. Robin (28:54):
Not a backdoor in front of you.
Got the side, yougot the garage door?
Possibly.
But
Nella (28:58):
she's like a, um, she's a realtor.
She's doing amazing her job.
I've seen her go throughdifferent careers.
This has been great for her.
And she has now, of course,her own new network of friends
because of all the realtors.
And so she's veryinvolved in the community.
She meets all these people,so she has these friends
that she goes out with, thatshe goes to events with.
She's even going on an all girlscruise with them, and it's like.
We have a good enough connectionto where you, I don't, I
(29:21):
wouldn't wanna go with allthese people, I don't know.
Mm-hmm.
So go hang out with them.
Go do your thing.
Same thing.
I can call her up and say,Hey, you know what, we haven't
caught up in like a two months.
We haven't seen each other.
We'll go have dinner.
But like that is hergroup for her networking
Absolutely her thing.
And she understandsmy thing too.
So like that mutual respect.
It's, I think, sohard to come by.
(29:41):
It is.
It is.
It really
TJ (29:42):
is.
And, and when you, when you findit in a friend, you, those are
the friends that you hold onto.
Mm-hmm.
You fight for even, right.
I was gonna say,you, you hit it.
Sometimes fight with evenif, even if sometimes, yeah,
even if sometimes it youbecause, because you gotta
process and go, okay, isthis friendship worth it?
Then you go through all thelittle points, oh yes it
is, and blah, blah, blah.
(30:02):
So you do, you have tofight hard and I, I think.
Because anything worth havingis worth fighting for, right?
Mm-hmm.
So you do have to, you gottaget down to pull your sleeves
up and go, okay, right?
Like, if we don't get thistogether, I'm gonna fight you.
Nella (30:16):
Yep, yep, yep.
And that's the thing, um, youknow, thinking about even like.
The, the ones who are justlike, let's say young adults
who are going through thattransition of like, I know both
my kids have gone through that.
Like, okay, they'regoing out to college.
They're in a different,some of them are not going
out to college, some ofthem are still at home
or doing their own thing.
Like, so I know, uh, Anaya ISSgoing through that now too with
like, you know, some of theclosest friends that she's had
(30:39):
are not going along with her orlike going their own journey.
Mm-hmm.
And so like.
You know, seeing her gothrough that and seeing
these young adults say like,oh my gosh, this person
is not calling anymore.
You know, we'regoing different ways.
And it, it's like almostlike a grief process.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Wouldn't you say sometimes?
Dr. Robin (30:56):
Yes, of course.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, and it's funny 'causeI use grief a lot and, and
because I, I think like whenwe talk about grief, again,
it's one of those wordswhere you just go, whew.
Like, because it is, it'sone of those words that
you think grieving a death.
But I'm like, there'sdeath of situations.
Mm-hmm.
Of course there's, youknow, death of friendship.
Yeah.
There's losses and everythingand sometimes, but there's
(31:17):
a lot of times where youhave to, because again, if
you don't grieve that heart,you can't move over here.
Like I tell my people, I'mlike, it's like you've got
one arm here, but you're stilltrying to hold on to all that.
And it was funny, I evenasked my one client that
we were talking aboutthe kind of outgrowing.
(31:39):
You could see her struggling.
And I go, what is it inyou that you're not okay?
You know, losing this friendshipor you know, is it, and so
sometimes it is, it's likewhen we stay too long or when
we're struggling, it's like,okay, is it them or is it me?
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Which goes back again toknowing you what boundaries
or, you know, am I allowedor you know, I mean, it's
(31:59):
just all these things.
But No, absolutely.
I would say youhave to grieve that.
Nella (32:04):
Yeah.
And that's one thing people,it's the acceptance part of
that too, but that of course isa part of the stage of grief.
Mm-hmm.
So, but I've noticed that too,you know, if the young adults
grieving that, that part of whothey were, like my son is doing
a much better job of doing it.
But Anaya just her personality,she's having a harder time,
I think, with that process.
So.
TJ (32:24):
Yeah.
And, you know, and, and, andshe's still young too, so
it, like at that age, likeif you lose a friend, it's
like, oh, the world's ending.
Nella (32:31):
Yeah.
TJ (32:31):
You know, even if that friend was not a good
friend to you, you know?
Right.
Because sometimes it is onesided where you like somebody
so much and you know that,or they don't return that, or
they're not as nice to you,but you still like that person.
Right.
But then the friendshipends and you still
grieve that friendship.
You know.
Absolutely.
But I think of course theolder we get, I know the more
(32:54):
wisdom hopefully we attain.
Exactly.
And so Exactly.
And it starts to become
Nella (32:57):
easier.
TJ (32:57):
Absolutely.
Yep.
Absolutely.
And what
Nella (32:59):
would you say TJ, like would be like boundary issues
that like you've seen that areeither common with people or
maybe something that you'veexperienced with boundary
issues and friendships?
Well, you know, I
TJ (33:12):
think.
Sometimes you, you, you havethose friends that they overstep
that or they overspeak, right?
Like I, I, I say, youknow, this is what I've
told my adult daughters.
The more you tell people,the more right you
give them to speak intowhatever your situation is.
Because the first thing thatwe normally hear is, girl, if
(33:32):
I were you, I wouldn't do that.
Mm-hmm.
Or girl, you need to justcut him a loose or girl, you
just need to get another job.
Girl, if you, if I wereyou and my main thing
is, but you're not me.
Right.
I don't wanna knowwhat you would do.
Right?
Because sometimes whatyour friend would do is,
is not always the rightthing to do, but I I see a
lot of, you know, um, fromfriendship to friendship,
(33:53):
like a lot of overstepping,you know, or a lot of over
speaking or, or, you know,solicited advice or solicited
advice of my things I hate.
Right?
Unsolicited advice.
And then when you say, well, youknow what, I understand that,
but I'm gonna choose to do this,and then they get all upset.
Like, that's been apersonal experience of mine.
But then I also have clientswho have said the same, or
(34:14):
they're like, well, you know, Idon't really wanna say anything
to my friend 'cause I don'twanna lose the friendship.
And I said, well, ifyou're stuck on losing the
friendship, the friendship'snot intact anyway.
Yes.
Because I'm not stuck onlosing a friendship mm-hmm.
If I'm having an issue.
And of course I'vehad to learn this.
So it's, it, it, youknow, it takes time.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
If there's something that Ireally think that is hindering
the friendship or stopping thefriendship from continuing,
(34:35):
I have to speak to it.
Now I'll process it first, butI have to speak to it because
if not, we can't move into thedirection that we're, that we
wanna move in, there's gonna besomething that's gonna stop it.
And you know, I've hada friendship like that
and I'm like, I can'tgo back to my old ways.
'cause my old wayswas disconnect and
I'm like, I'm good.
(34:56):
We don't have to continuethis friendship, but
I'm trying to, you know.
Not allow that to stop thefriendship, especially if the
friendship is worth saving.
You know what I mean?
So I think that's like thebiggest thing I I, I see a
lot of, of girl, if I were yougirl, if I were you, girl, you
should girl, you should, youknow, and I think sometimes,
(35:17):
and I'm, I'm learning to bethis friend too, sometimes, just
listen and I'll ask, would youlike me to give you some advice
on that or do you just wantme to just, you know, listen.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
And a lot of times friends,they don't expect that.
So they're like, oh, oh yeah.
I just, I just wanna vent.
Right?
And so I've, they ventand with no judgment.
Nella (35:38):
I like that.
Dr. Robin (35:39):
So one thing you just said was about
advice and two times.
One client and thenalso Antonio, my son.
'cause we are do have anew grand baby five weeks.
So, you know, we're not quitewith you yet, but I know, and
I know now saw the, well youcan't play the part with my dad
and is not coming over at all.
Sorry.
So until you're groan.
(36:01):
But um, but it was funnybecause, you know, uh, Antonio
sat me down in something'cause he was struggling in
a situation like this and hegoes, well, 'cause sometimes,
you know, when I give adviceand I just went, stop.
I go, here's the thing.
I go, I know you, Iknow what's going on.
I said, but here'sthe thing with advice.
I said, anytime yougive advice solicitor,
(36:23):
unsolicited, they can alwaysput the blame back on you.
You know?
And so some even time withthat, like when you said
like, do you want my advice?
Or you know, even with that.
I think that's different.
And we obviously know and wedo a lot of this stuff, but I'm
always like about a perspective.
You know, I'm always about a,you know, okay, I know what
I would do in this situation,but I also know you too.
But have we lookedat it like this?
You know, instead of likesaying, well, and again, I
(36:47):
love to build that empowermentother people and say, well,
okay, this is your life.
What do you want?
You know, what do, do youreally know what you want?
'cause if you don'tknow what you want.
I can't really help you, butif you can get an idea, then
we can start to work together.
And it is more oflike a collaboration.
And so, you know, andhe was like, I didn't
think about it like that.
He goes, 'cause a lot of times.
(37:09):
They asked for advice,I give it to 'em.
They don't do it.
I get mad.
That's what, and Isaid, and there you go.
Absolutely.
Because again, you know,that's, that goes back to that.
Do you wanna be rescuedor wanna be helped?
They gotta do their part.
And so, but also, there wasone thing that I had up in
my office all last week andthis week, and, and it really
helped me so, so, so much.
And it was right online, whatyou were saying, and it says,
(37:30):
people lie patterns don't.
Nella (37:31):
Hmm.
You
Dr. Robin (37:32):
know, and so that's the thing when you can see a
pattern of behavior becausewhen, when we stepped out of
our emotional conditioning andconnectedness, 'cause of course
when we have our friends and ourpeople, you know, that's where
we start to attach feelingsand hurt and this and that.
But if you can come backand say, okay, but the
(37:52):
pattern of behavior.
This is what it is.
So, I mean, you can say that,but this is what's showing
again, and I understand that.
And even with that, I thinksometimes helps when you're
having that conversation about,um, you know, this friendship
like it, this is tough to say.
However, this is the patternthat I continue to see.
(38:16):
And it doesn't workfor me, you know?
And I'm struggling, you know?
And if it's like, even oneof these things, like we were
talking about making plans withpeople, you know, and it's like
they canceled, they canceled,they canceled, they canceled.
But by God, if you don't pickup the phone one time, you
know, I'm like, oh, I'm sorry.
What?
TJ (38:33):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Robin (38:33):
Five times.
You aren't here,but you're okay.
But you know, and then yougo, you have to look at, but
their pattern of behavior.
That doesn't lie.
And that's, and that showsa lack of mutual respect.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that again, clearlywhere we thought we were
in that relationship isnot where they have put us.
(38:54):
Mm-hmm.
You those expectations.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And so I definitely think thathas helped me, you know, trying
to understand some things.
You know, it's just like, okay,well, but the pattern is there,
so I'm not gonna take this on.
But then I can also make adecision based on the pattern.
Nella (39:11):
Yep.
And I, you know, thatthe pattern predicts
future behavior.
So we need to, I mean,that even goes along with
friendships for sure.
Mm-hmm.
So I think that's one key thingtoo for sure to think about when
you're choosing friendships,when you're trying to keep
friendships, is looking at thepattern and behavior and also
the pattern that you see withthem, with their other friends.
Mm-hmm.
TJ (39:29):
Absolutely.
Nella (39:29):
So, you know, if you see them be cer, you
know, a certain way with thefriendships or kind of like.
You know, toss them asidesometimes or maybe not listen,
or maybe they're talking trashabout their other friends.
I still say that they're goingto do the same about you.
Yeah.
And I've learned that as well.
Like, okay, I knowthis group of friends.
I know what they're, that'swhy you limit what you say
in front of certain people.
Um, because if not, you know,it's just gonna go to other.
(39:51):
Other places thatyou don't want it to.
Yeah.
So, well, that is all fortoday's episode, A cut time.
And, um, hey, if you guyshave not subscribed yet,
please subscribe because we'regetting up there in views,
we're getting up there indownloads, so keep doing it.
And hey.
If you have any suggestions oftopics that you want us to do,
(40:11):
absolutely talk about, pleasereach out to us, YouTube.
Um, there's also an emaillink in there that you can do.
So reach out to us.
Yes.
Yeah,
Dr. Robin (40:19):
that'd be great.
'cause we, I mean, thisis for y'all, so Exactly.
Nella (40:22):
Absolute.
We, we'll talkabout some topics.
We'll even name you if you wantto and, and all that good stuff.
Yeah.
Whatever you wanna do.
Dr. Robin (40:27):
Ask
Nella (40:27):
a, ask a clinician.
We're ready for it.
There you go.
Ready?
Tj, what would you do?
All right, everyone,have a good day.
Thank you.
I've learned and I've developed those
healthy boundaries for me.
'cause I've had to say thatto a few friends in the past.
Like, Hey, this friendshipis not working out.
And I just think that it'sbest that we just part
Dr. Robin (00:09):
ways.
When you have the growth mindsetand you know that your path
is where it is and it is atough path, but it's your path.
Some people are not going tobe on it with you all the time.
Because their path is different,and even on that side of it, it
is hard to let go of friends.
Nella (00:36):
Well, hello everyone.
Hello.
Hello.
Welcome to episode 14of Therapists Unhinged.
And today we're back withjust the three of us.
We've had a lot ofguests on the show, and
we'll keep having them.
Um, but today we're gonnabe talking about something
that I think everyonecan relate to, which is
(00:58):
friendships and boundaries.
Ooh,
TJ (01:02):
all.
It's a big deal.
It's, that is a big deal.
A deal because,
Nella (01:05):
you know, hey, we're social beings,
so we all, you know.
I have friends, weinteract with people.
And then I know one big thingthat a lot of people have a
problem with is boundarieswith those friendships.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know.
Tj, what do youhave to say about,
TJ (01:22):
you gotta start with you.
I already knew that.
Like why did I knowTJ was, I was ready.
Oh.
The
Nella (01:28):
thing that you see, like your, your clients go
through, like when it comesto friendships and creating
boundaries or issues that arise.
Dr. Robin (01:35):
Well, actually, hold on.
Can we just start with, canwe like, do a foundation of
like, what is even a healthyfriendship look like, I guess.
Maybe start thereor should we not?
Well, I mean,
Nella (01:43):
that's all subjective.
Really.
True, true.
So, I mean, subjectivelyspeaking, I would say
a friendship means.
Um, someone who is, youknow, going to be there
for you when you need them.
Is it, you know, youenjoy being around them.
You en you can pick upthe phone and they're
dependable, you know, loyal.
Those, those are justsome traits that I see.
(02:05):
Absolute.
See.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And friendship.
What about you?
Anything you wanna add to that?
Dr. Robin (02:09):
And that's what I was gonna say.
But also I think one thing isthat it's a give and a take.
Nella (02:12):
Oh, absolutely.
It's a give and a take.
And that's what
Dr. Robin (02:14):
I was gonna say.
'cause I was thinking likesometimes let's, you know, let's
make sure we set that foundationeven though it is different.
Mm-hmm.
You know, because Ithink a lot of times.
Just even with that, likepeople's definitions of Right.
TJ (02:27):
And in mutual respect, of course, you know?
Right.
Um, something that I sharewith my clients, especially
those who struggle with,you know, setting boundaries
and friendships is look, youknow, it's a give and take.
It doesn't look the same though.
Because I'm, I'm, I'm abig girl on like seasons.
So I go, this may be your seasonto give and it may be the other
(02:48):
person's season to just receive.
So there's a pouring and thepouring into, but then there's
also a pouring out and sometimesthose, those friendships
may not look balanced.
Mm-hmm.
To, you know, others.
But it is in certainways, because I may,
this season, I may needsomething from you, right.
Because I'm going through somuch and you are there for me.
(03:09):
So it's mutual.
Then there may be a season whenyou're going through something
and that, you know, I, you,you need something from me
or I need something from you.
So it's definitelybuilt on mutual respect.
Um, you know, setting healthyboundaries look like, you know,
giving me space, you know, andalso having space for yourself
(03:29):
and just knowing when to.
Not necessarily draw the line,but just knowing how far to go.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Learning that person.
It's a relationship.
It's, it's a relationshipthat you learn, that person
learn their, their nos,their yeses, their gives,
their takes, and vice versa.
So that's where that mutual,you know, respect comes from.
Nella (03:48):
I like that.
That's very true.
The mutual respect is, I think,key, you know, and, and for me
in, in my age, you know, 41 40,
Dr. Robin (03:57):
she's a baby.
Little embryo.
You little baby.
Nella (04:02):
So in my, you know, experience, um.
Of course we look atfriendships differently at
different stages of our life.
Of course, that's a huge thing.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, when you'rein elementary school, you
know, children look at it as,you know, their playmates,
someone fun to be aroundand things like that.
And then as you get intoadolescence, there's
more of that loyaltyexpectation I think, that
(04:23):
they have on their friends.
Um, you know, and,and mutual respect.
And then I think whenyou get into adulthood.
Things start to reallyshift, especially I would
say, like for me and fromwhat I see with clients is
like this shift of, okay,people are going in different
directions, maybe in their life.
Are you gonna come along withme and have, you know, go along
(04:46):
with me on my journey, eventhough my journey may not look
the same as yours and, youknow, are you going to, you
know, be there when I need you?
Mm-hmm.
You know, you may not be ableto talk all the time, but
you know, or see each other.
But I know that I candepend on you if I need you.
Absolutely.
Um, and I've learned, you know,friendships, kind of like what
you said with certain seasons.
I think people too are.
(05:08):
Certain circumstances,they're friends.
So you may have a friend thatyou like to travel with, they're
really fun to travel with.
But you know what, um, everyday you don't wanna invite
them over your house every day.
Right.
Or there may be that friendshipthat, you know, you can call
up and go have a dinner,dinner with, but maybe that
friend won't be like, as muchfun as say, like spontaneous.
Like, Hey, do you wanna goto New York this weekend?
(05:29):
You know, that may notbe the friend for you.
So I think I've learned tod you know, differentiate.
Yep.
Friends fordifferent things too.
TJ (05:38):
I'm smiling because you're reminded me of so much.
Like it, like you have friendsthat are acquaintances, you have
friends that are associates,Charles, you have close friends,
and I'm, I, and then, um, you,and like you said, you have
friends that you will sharelike your intimate stuff with,
but then you have anotherfriend who you may just be
all fun and games with, but.
(06:01):
I call the most intimatefriends, the ones that you know,
they're gonna be there for you.
You're gonna be there for, Icall them backdoor friends.
Now backdoor friends arethe ones that if you, if
you take a house right.
And you enter from the backdoor, people can't really
see you coming 'cause you'recoming from the back door.
So a backdoor friendis that friend that
comes in from the back.
She doesn't care howmessy your house is.
(06:21):
She doesn't care if youknow the kids are like,
you know, disheveled.
She doesn't care ifshe's fighting with
the husband or not.
She just comes in and shedoesn't judge and she just
sits there and she justwait until you're done.
And then she's like, okay.
How can I help you?
Mm-hmm.
So those backdoor friends arethose ones where, yes, you
have already developed most ofthose boundaries that you need.
(06:42):
Those are the ones that youhave carried through with you
through the roughest of times.
Maybe you've experienceda divorce and they've been
there, you know, maybe theyhave and you've been there.
But those are those friendswhere it's like through thick
and thin, it doesn't matter.
We may have disagreements,but at the end of the day,
we still love each other.
I love that and, andthat's what I like.
I like friends where I canjust really be honest and
go, you know what, girl?
(07:02):
You really need to get ittogether because you're
like, you know, hey, andI see you falling apart.
And if I can't share that witha friend that I call a backdoor
friend or a friend that I calla personal friend, then are we
really friends And vice versa?
Tell me when I'm like,you know, I'm unhinged.
Tell me, you know, Hey girl,you need to dial it back a
little bit and I'll receivethat because I know what kind
(07:23):
of friend you are and what kindof friend you've always been.
I like that.
Dr. Robin (07:28):
I mean, the back door, that is so cool because.
I've never heard that and I lovethat because again, it's like,
you know when you come intothe front door, you're a guest.
Bingo.
Yeah.
And I was just like going, Iliterally am picturing like
the house and thinking about.
TJ know, both of y'all know,like, if anything hap I'll be
like, I don't care what doorit is, I'm coming in, like I'm
(07:50):
coming, you know, y'all windowthat like, I will be there
swimming through around thepool door, whatever we need
to do coming through the roof,I'll be Santa Claus, you know?
But I do, I thought thatwas, that was such that I
know I, I'm gonna, I'm gonnastart to think about that.
The back door.
I know I was just like going,where is she going with that?
But it is, I mean.
I always say that, youknow, I have a ton of
acquaintances and a very, youknow, close set of friends.
(08:13):
And even with my, because I'vereally, I had like my, like
friends like for a long time.
But even with them, youknow, there are different
things that even we doand have shared together.
And also it's like.
Just right before I got inhere working with one of my
young clients and we weretalking about friendships.
That's why when you saidthat, I was like, oh my
(08:33):
gosh, we just did that.
And you know, one thing thatI know that I have said to a
lot of my clients lately islike, you know, do you think
it's possible that you haveoutgrown that relationship?
TJ (08:43):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Robin (08:44):
And because, you know, again, it's like when
you have the growth mindsetand you know that your path
is where it is and it is atough path, but it's your path.
Some people are not going tobe on it with you all the time.
'cause their path is different.
And even on that side of it, itis hard to let go of friends.
(09:06):
Mm-hmm.
That have been there in certainthings because there's like,
well I don't want to leave them.
I can't not be me.
And so even with that, Imean there's a lot of just
even understanding the mutualrespect of I love you, but I,
I love me and I, you know, youalways be a part of my life.
And if you show up overthe road here, then great.
(09:28):
But I think there's also thatunderstanding too, boundaries
within yourself and who.
You know, is gonnacontinue or not continue.
Absolutely.
And being okay with it.
Well, and also you saidsomething too, and I know that
we talk a lot, is that Yeah,you know, I'm on big person
on, you know, love speaks thetruth and love is not just all
about allowing anybody to dowhatever they want all the time.
(09:51):
That's not right.
I mean, that's not love becauseto me it's like when you love
somebody and you know thatperson and you know yourself,
like you were talking aboutlike TJ and I know all three
of us and we do, we backdoor,we have, you gotta be to
do what we do, you know?
And sometimes sure we getfrustrated and you know, we get
and we just go, you know what?
That's okay.
That's okay 'causewe're in this together.
(10:11):
But I love thisperson, you know?
And, and I know, you know,you guys tell me all the
time, okay, Robin, like,you know, or this or that.
We go, t you know, I'm justletting you know, are you good?
Because this, I didn'teven realize that was
going on, you know?
And it's because it's likewhen you love your people,
you don't want them to hurt.
You don't want them to godown a path that, now granted
they're still gonna takethat for whatever they take
(10:31):
that, but to me, I'm like.
The truth is, I seeyou better than that.
I want you better than that.
I don't want you hurting.
And if like, let's say you'redoing something, whatever
to cope or whatever, that'snot healthy, you know?
And then it's still a boundary.
Do I step in, do I not?
You know, even with that,like how would y'all handle
that if you had one ofyour back door friends?
(10:53):
Mm-hmm.
And you know, he or she'sreally going through it.
Like
TJ (10:58):
the only thing that comes to mind for me right now.
'cause sometimes.
There are times where you justwanna cut through the chase.
You just wanna go in head on.
It's like, hey, you know?
But then there are times whereeven though it may be a backdoor
friend, it just depends onhow well that friend receives
stuff and how they mm-hmm.
And how they receive it.
So sometimes you can justtell a little story, right?
And you can include them inthe story without telling
(11:20):
them they're in the story tosee what their take on it is.
And, and I'm reminded of that.
I'm, I'm, I'm gonna gobiblical real quick here.
There's a story in the,in the, in the Bible where
King David was like doingall this crazy stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And Nathan, the prophet cameto him and he said, and Nathan
gave him a story and he said,Hey David, what do you think
about this, that, and the third?
And he goes, oh, a person thatdoes that should be killed.
(11:42):
And he goes, who would dosuch a thing like that?
And Nathan says,well, that man is you.
Mm-hmm.
So sometimes you haveto like tell a story or
you know, just at least.
You know, set the stage mm-hmm.
For what you wanna say, becauseyou know it, again, it depends
on what's going on, what,what it is that you, you, you
know, you want to talk to thisperson, your friend about, and,
and just take it from there.
(12:02):
But then there are those timeswhere it's like, you gotta
go, Hey look, I just gottacut through the chase there.
You know what's going on.
Or, I see you here and I knowthat's not normally you, but
right now this is you andwe need to try to fix it.
Or what can we do to fix it?
Nella (12:17):
Yeah, and that made me think too of like, I had
a childhood friend I'd knownsince I was 12, and you know,
she went on her own path.
She got in, you know, I got,I obviously got married,
had kids, well, her path wasdifferent, you know, she didn't
get married or have kids.
She was in relationships,but she never did that well.
Eventually when she wasin this unfortunate, toxic
relationship and I wasseeing her through this and
(12:39):
I was trying to be there forher, um, she got sucked in.
He was a complete hardcoredefinition textbook of
narcissistic personality.
And, you know, with thatisolation and, and all the stuff
that she was going through, itgot to a point to where it was
exhausting for me to continuegoing down the same things that
he was doing and, you know,unfaithful and all this stuff.
(13:00):
She ended up movingvery far away.
And her and I still keptin touch, but not as deep.
Well, here we are probably,you know, it's about a year
or so after she's finally gotoutta this relationship and she
needed to do all these thingsto, to have help and reached
out to me and I jumped onthat train and, and was there
(13:20):
to help her because she, Istill cared about her, right.
I just couldn't go along onthat journey with her anymore
'cause I couldn't do anything.
I had to let her.
Figure it out.
Absolutely.
She figured it out and now she'shealing and, but she is saying
constantly like how gratefulshe is for the friendship.
That I was the, one ofthe only ones that was
really there for her.
And now that she's healingand, and got rid of this
(13:42):
horrible person and herlife, I'm there for her.
Now we're like, we'vealmost like reconnected.
Mm-hmm.
Our friendship.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And so I, it makes me thinklike maybe someone is.
That season is done, but maybeit'll come back around again
and leaving that door open.
Yeah.
Like it doesn't have to endbadly, but, um, if you do
have a different journeyand a different path.
(14:03):
Letting that kind of happen,and then you never know what
could bring you back together.
TJ (14:07):
I like that because, you know, and Robin said
it earlier, if, if you'retrying to help those kind of
friends and, but at the sametime you're losing yourself.
Mm-hmm.
You gotta know how to separateand that's a boundary and
say, Hey, that's my boundary.
Yep.
And, and you know,we talked about this.
I've tried to help as muchas I can, and sometimes you
do have those friends wherethey appreciate the help,
but they don't, they stilldon't accept the help, right?
(14:28):
Mm-hmm.
And until they're really ready.
Until they're fully ready.
And so I believe that you haveto like park that friendship
like you did, park thatfriendship and say, Hey,
I'm always here for you,but I just can't keep going
through the motions with you.
Mm-hmm.
Because I'm losingmyself, you know?
And so when, when you do findwhat it is that you want or
you know what direction youwanna take, I'll be here.
(14:50):
And so that's whatthat sounds like.
It's great parking,that friendship.
Mm-hmm.
And making sure that you keepyourself, you know, you don't
lose yourself while they'retrying to find themselves.
Nella (15:01):
And I don't know if you, this has happened to either
one of you, but like I knowone thing for me that I've
seen, and I've, I've actuallyspoken to other business
owners, um, you know, that thishappened to too, is like when
you go onto a different path,there's gonna be people that.
Are either, I feel likeone gonna go on that
journey with you, right?
They're gonna go along with youand they're gonna support you,
(15:23):
and they're gonna be one of yourbiggest cheerleaders, right?
Absolutely.
Then there's gonna be thepeople that will keep speaking
to you and be there for you,but it's for their own agenda.
Like, Ooh, I wanna keepher on my back pocket now.
Mm-hmm.
For when I need her again.
And then there's the onesthat are gonna be the haters,
which you would call haters.
Oh, yeah.
That are gonna be there.
Like, what is shedoing over there?
She's, she's doingwhat over everything.
(15:44):
Right?
She's doing what over there?
Eat some popcorn water.
Right?
Yeah.
And then those are theones that are kind of like
disappear because for somereason they don't, uh,
like what you're doing.
I don't know.
That happen's because they don't
Dr. Robin (15:53):
like themselves.
But remember I said, youjust said that literally
I have written down herewhat we just talked about.
I said, you got your energygivers and your energy takers.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what I said.
As your path goes, Isaid, here's the one.
The givers are there regardless.
You don't have tosee 'em every day.
And they're, and they'recelebrating you because that's
what makes up they love you.
And again, but it's thetakers and those are the
(16:14):
ones, and that's, thoseare the ones that hurt.
Because it's like, again,when you know that you are
doing everything in yourpower and you love everybody
and you, you're authentic.
That's the hard part, you know?
Mm-hmm.
And I know that.
Learned it.
We all have, yeah,
TJ (16:28):
we all have learned it.
Yes, we've all beenhurt by certain friends.
'cause you know, just atransparent moment, like I
struggled with in my early adultyears, twenties, early thirties,
I struggled with friendships.
You know, and I'll be honest,I struggled with women
friendships because, youknow, my hit, it had always
been hurt, painful, you know,gossipy people, you know, and
(16:51):
different things like that.
So, but the older I got when Istarted setting my boundaries.
And my boundaries also,uh, differ when it comes
to different friendships.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Because some peoplewill take advantage of
you or they will try.
So you have to set a certainkind of boundaries with those
people, you know, and thensome people will fit, they
will mentally drain you, andit's like, wait a minute, my
social battery is depleted.
(17:12):
Like I, I have maybe 15 minutesto give you on the phone, and
that's it because I need tostart making dinner or I need
to really focus on other things.
But.
It took me a while to reallylike, connect with women and,
and, and create those kind offriendships that I know that
I don't have to worry about mybusiness being thrown over the
(17:35):
street or them wanting somethingfrom me that, you know.
They shouldn't, youknow, your agenda, right?
Like having anagenda that say that.
Because I always, always,always like, what are you
come for that hidden agenda?
What are you coming for?
Mm-hmm.
You know, and I'll be honest,you know, through, through a
lot of prayer, you know, um, andjust God revealing to me, okay,
this is, this is a friendship.
(17:55):
Like you can take you,you know, it's okay.
You know?
So I, I've, I've learnedand I've developed those,
you know, those, thosehealthy boundaries for me.
And when I say, Hey, you knowwhat, this isn't working out.
Because I've had to say thatto a, you know, a few, that
was gonna be my question.
Like, Hey, this friendshipis not working out.
Um, it, you know, and I justthink that it's best that we
(18:16):
just part ways and I've donethat, you know, I've done
Dr. Robin (18:18):
it too.
Yeah.
You have to now.
And, and even though, and I knowwe talked about relationships
a few weeks ago, and, andI'm telling right now, I
almost feel like I can handlebreaking up in a relationship
more than I can a friendship.
Because friendships, tome, they're so few and far
between, you know, becauseeverybody's got their thing.
But like you said, even youknow, this person and you know.
Letting them kind of go dotheir thing, even when you
(18:40):
go, just gonna sit back.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and ithurts, you know?
And then when they come backand, but it's almost like,
I'm so glad that you werestable and you did everything
because that was almost likethe basis that she needed to
go, wait a minute, you knowwhat, I'm, I'm not doing what
I'm supposed to be doing, but.
You know, tj, you know, again,thank you for sharing that.
(19:01):
And we all know, I mean,me coming from athletics
and everything else, Ialways was with the guys.
And so even coming here, and Iknow with Nella, um, I always
talk about, you know, ourinterview and how funny it was.
And I told her, I said, oh mygosh, there's all girls here.
Like, I don't knowhow to do this.
I dunno what to do.
I wasn't in no board.
You know what I mean?
And I was just like, and evenin my head thinking like.
(19:23):
I'm not really girly, you know,I mean like I'm literally,
before we started this and I'mlike, look at y'all's nails.
Oh my God.
You know?
And I'm looking, going,yeah, I've always been
coaching so there's no nails.
And I mean, even just learningthat and you know, but I
think a lot of it was justthat, like TJ said, whatever
her situation, but mine wasjust, I just didn't know.
I didn't know howto like be a girl.
(19:44):
Like, it just didn'tmake sense to me.
I mean, I'm a girl,but I mean like those
things just, you don't.
I don't know.
I don't get my hair.
I, I don't know.
It's just, so I think I wasalways just nervous, you
know, always nervous aroundwomen because there was a lot
of things that they talkedabout that I just didn't do.
Like, you know, I wasonly married a short time.
I've been a single mom.
Like, I just do a lotof things on my own.
(20:06):
So it was kind of like.
I don't know how to do this,but I will tell you that,
you know, being here withall these wonderful women,
wonderful women, oh my gosh.
Mm-hmm.
I mean our, you know,I know when TJ and I do
interviews, like we justtell 'em how amazing and
empowering, you know.
That, that these women are, thatwe get to work with, you know?
And even the women that I getto work with as clients, it has
(20:28):
been so, like, it's actuallytaught me a lot and how to be
a little softer in some areas.
'cause I think what you weretalking about is the readiness
factor, is that sometimeseven when we see our friends,
you know, sometimes we haveto sit back and go because.
You know, are they evenready to hear this?
Nella (20:45):
And I think too, it makes me think of, we talked
a lot about expectationsthat we have on Oh, yes.
Mm-hmm.
Different people.
Mm-hmm.
I think too, the expectationsis a big piece of friendships.
Like absolutely.
You know, what is it thatyou're expecting of them?
Are you, are you expecting themto give what you're giving?
You know, good.
Are you, that's good.
Gonna expect you knowthem to be loyal.
Are you gonna expect them tobe there when you need them?
(21:06):
Like really, whatare the expectations?
Because unfortunately,sometimes, and I hear this with
clients, you know and stuff,it's like your expectations
need to be lower initially untilthey have proven themselves
that they're gonna be thisloyal or that, you know.
Consistent.
They've showed that consistencythroughout your friendship.
Right.
Because a lot of people I knowfor me that was one of my big
things growing up is I alwaysexpected people to give what I'm
(21:27):
giving into the relationship andit, and I've learned the hard
way, but people don't do that.
And that was my faultfor automatically putting
high, high expectations.
Mm-hmm.
On friendships.
So I know I tell my clients thattoo, when they're like going
through something or like, youknow, let's say they just become
a mom and you know, they're theonly ones with kids now, and
(21:48):
how, you know, the expectationsof her friends inviting her
and, you know, things like that.
I, I, I hear a lot and it'slike, okay, well what are
the expectations that youhave set for this friendship
now that you've transitionedto a different role?
Mm-hmm.
In that, you know, in your life
TJ (22:02):
or, so that is a very big piece because you do have
to know those expectations.
And like you said, theymay look different mm-hmm.
From friendships, which iswhat, what I was sta stating
earlier about like, youknow, how you pour into your
friend may not be the way shepours back into your heat.
Mm-hmm.
Pours back into you.
But if you know the expectationsupfront, then you're not
(22:24):
disappointed at the results.
Yep.
You
Dr. Robin (22:26):
know?
Well, and also I always say likeI, again, if I have a client
coming to me and going, Hey Dr.
Robin, like can you fix my car?
I mean, I Are you gas in it?
You know?
But don't be mad with mebecause I can't fix your car
'cause I'm not that friend.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what I'm saying.
So it's like, yes,you gotta know too.
(22:49):
Like, you know what, again,this is my friend I travel with.
Nella (22:52):
Yep.
Dr. Robin (22:53):
I'm not gonna give her this because that's not fair
to her or him because that'snot their role in my life.
Nella (23:00):
And the acceptance that you may not be everyone's.
That, that person for everybody.
Exactly.
Like in every, every situation.
Exactly.
So I've learned that peoplehaving those expectations
on me, inviting them tocertain things and, oh, why
didn't I get to go to that?
Or Why didn't youtell me about this?
Oh, I didn't know thatwas going on with you.
I, I had no idea.
That's been goingon for six months.
And I'm like, I justdidn't share that.
(23:22):
And it wasn't, it was like thatperson was not that person for
that circumstance, you know?
And so that's too is, is.
TJ (23:30):
You're right about that.
I, I had, I met this,um, woman, it, it's been
like maybe two years now.
And when I first met her,our con we hit it all,
our conversation was good.
And, and then she goes,oh, I already know we're
just gonna be best friends.
And I go, uh, back it up.
No, we're not Uhhuh.
I'm not lookingfor a best friend.
Mm-hmm.
Like, that's not gonna happen.
But we remained friends forthat duration of whatever
(23:53):
it was that connected us.
And it's not like we're notfriends now, but I haven't
talked to her in like.
Not at all this year.
So you know that that'sanother thing too.
It's like sometimes peoplego, when they say, oh,
we're gonna be best friends.
Like no, we're not.
I just made what is theirdefinition of best friends?
Right.
What is your definition?
Because I,
Dr. Robin (24:12):
yeah, no, so that's what I was just gonna, that
was about one of my questionsis that codependency, and
remember we talked abouttrauma, bonds in relationships,
but I mean friendships too.
There is that, you know,it was funny 'cause when
you had said before, like.
We were trying to just define ahealthy relationship and it was,
they're gonna be there for me,they're gonna be there for me.
(24:33):
And I had a client I workedwith and she goes, oh my gosh.
Like I don't know what to dobecause now that I'm over here
on this side and I have thisfriend and I love this friend,
and you always hear the but
Nella (24:47):
mm-hmm.
Dr. Robin (24:48):
I go, but here's the thing.
As you level up and asyour circumstances and
everything changes.
You change and you can stilllove that person, but you're
not operating from that anymore.
Nella (25:00):
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Robin (25:01):
But you can't get mad with them because
they're still there.
But that is still I think,a boundary of like, okay,
but you know, I do love her,but I also know who she is.
And I'm not that anymore.
Right.
You know, and then handleit with grace and you
know, 'cause sometimesit's just like, oh my gosh.
And, but then you get intothat guilty like, why am
I, I'm not anything better.
(25:21):
And I'm like, but even that andnot, 'cause you said acceptance.
Mm-hmm.
Self-acceptance, knowingwho you are, knowing
your own boundaries.
Nella (25:29):
Yep.
And I'm guilty of being thatand well, I'm the first person
to say, that is not for me.
I am not that friend that youwanna take with you to there.
Like I have, I have some, uh,I would say one of my closest,
closest friends, um, heryoungest is I think 11 or 12.
And of course, youknow, my youngest is 18.
I am so far past a little kid.
Annoying stage.
Like, I don't wanna bearound your damn kids.
(25:49):
I don't wanna be onkids on vacation.
She don't like your kids.
Don't be have kids.
I don't want yourdamn kids around me.
So my, she the truth boss lady.
Seriously?
So, and I love my kids andI used to love little kids,
but I have enough of them.
Alright.
You don't
TJ (26:03):
have the patience anymore.
That's what, and Rob is a weird,I have like, this is so great.
Nella (26:09):
So, so I have some friends with the
little ones, right?
Mm-hmm.
And I have some crazy friends.
You know who you are out there?
Who decided to have a, ababy in your forties now?
Alright, you're busted.
But
Dr. Robin (26:19):
I do not want that wine.
Nella (26:21):
Listen, keep that wine from me.
Listen, don't, I don't wannabe around for the little
1-year-old birthday parties.
I'm sorry.
That's not me.
So I have friends who, like Isaid, one of my closest friends,
her little girl's, 12, shejust had like a birthday party.
I wasn't invited.
I was like, you don'thave to invite me.
And you didn't feelbad, bad at all.
Right?
And I know she loves me,but she's like, now I
know you don't like kids.
I'm like, listen, Iam not heartbroken.
I will send her a Venmo.
And that is a birthday gift.
(26:42):
You know, she can goshopping or whatever.
Like that's a perfectexample of what we just say.
That's what I mean.
Exactly.
You know, she goes on cruisessometimes when she takes,
they take all their kidsand I'm like, how many of
you bring in your kids?
'cause that's not my cruise.
I don't wanna go becausewhen I'm on a cruise, I stay
away from the kids zone.
I like, I mean, I love it.
Reality, love mean, and Isay that I raise my head
like, that's not for me.
Don't invite me.
(27:02):
Mm-hmm.
You know, same thingwith people like.
Like, you know, I still havefriends who are like into
like going out every weekendand bar hopping mm-hmm.
And doing all that.
'cause they're like, Ihave a lot of friends who
don't have any kids either.
Their kids are adultsand they actually go
drinking with their kids.
And um, 'causethey're all older now.
Mm-hmm.
That's not me.
I don't wanna do that.
And.
So they got, they got over.
(27:23):
They're not inviting meanymore, which is fine.
'cause I'm like, I'm notgonna go, so you don't need
to invite me to those things.
Right.
So they know
TJ (27:28):
your expectations.
They know my expectationswhen it comes to that.
Like, and I
Nella (27:30):
don't get hurt.
Yeah.
It's like, okay, pleasego out bar hopping.
I just do not need aninvite, so I'm not gonna
TJ (27:35):
go.
Right.
Right.
Now on the flip side of that,my kids are grown, but I have
grandkids and so some of myfriends have, well, like one
of my, my good friends now,she's just now, well, she's
just now having her grandkids.
And they're like toddlers.
And my grandkids theyoungest, it's like five, but
hers are like baby babies.
(27:56):
But we connect on thatlevel, another level now.
Mm-hmm.
Because that is another levelof our friendship because
we now have conversation asit relates to the grandkids.
But I do have friends whothey don't have grandkid.
And it's like, if I'mhaving my grandkids for the
weekend and I wanna take'em to the park or whatever,
I can't call them becausethey don't have grandkids.
Yeah.
They're not gonna wanna come.
(28:17):
Exactly.
So I, I, I agree with that.
It's like when you know yourexpectations for the friends
that you have and the thingsthat they do, and vice versa,
Dr. Robin (28:25):
you're good.
TJ (28:26):
Yeah.
Dr. Robin (28:26):
And it actually inadvertently takes a lot of
pressure off of other peoplelot, trust me, because they're
like, oh my God, do we.
I'm good.
I'm tired, I'm grown.
I love you.
Y'all have a great time.
Nella (28:38):
That's it.
Yes.
You know, and that evenreminds me of like another end.
So like, um, I would say likemy best, best, best friend
she is like my ride or die.
My backdoor friend, I'mgonna call her that.
Her name's Rachel.
If she's listening, shebetter be listening.
Hi Rachel.
Hi, Rachel.
Rachel, you don't hear this.
You, Rachel.
Hey, Rachel.
Oh, you.
Dr. Robin (28:54):
Not a backdoor in front of you.
Got the side, yougot the garage door?
Possibly.
But
Nella (28:58):
she's like a, um, she's a realtor.
She's doing amazing her job.
I've seen her go throughdifferent careers.
This has been great for her.
And she has now, of course,her own new network of friends
because of all the realtors.
And so she's veryinvolved in the community.
She meets all these people,so she has these friends
that she goes out with, thatshe goes to events with.
She's even going on an all girlscruise with them, and it's like.
We have a good enough connectionto where you, I don't, I
(29:21):
wouldn't wanna go with allthese people, I don't know.
Mm-hmm.
So go hang out with them.
Go do your thing.
Same thing.
I can call her up and say,Hey, you know what, we haven't
caught up in like a two months.
We haven't seen each other.
We'll go have dinner.
But like that is hergroup for her networking
Absolutely her thing.
And she understandsmy thing too.
So like that mutual respect.
It's, I think, sohard to come by.
(29:41):
It is.
It is.
It really
TJ (29:42):
is.
And, and when you, when you findit in a friend, you, those are
the friends that you hold onto.
Mm-hmm.
You fight for even, right.
I was gonna say,you, you hit it.
Sometimes fight with evenif, even if sometimes, yeah,
even if sometimes it youbecause, because you gotta
process and go, okay, isthis friendship worth it?
Then you go through all thelittle points, oh yes it
is, and blah, blah, blah.
(30:02):
So you do, you have tofight hard and I, I think.
Because anything worth havingis worth fighting for, right?
Mm-hmm.
So you do have to, you gottaget down to pull your sleeves
up and go, okay, right?
Like, if we don't get thistogether, I'm gonna fight you.
Nella (30:16):
Yep, yep, yep.
And that's the thing, um, youknow, thinking about even like.
The, the ones who are justlike, let's say young adults
who are going through thattransition of like, I know both
my kids have gone through that.
Like, okay, they'regoing out to college.
They're in a different,some of them are not going
out to college, some ofthem are still at home
or doing their own thing.
Like, so I know, uh, Anaya ISSgoing through that now too with
like, you know, some of theclosest friends that she's had
(30:39):
are not going along with her orlike going their own journey.
Mm-hmm.
And so like.
You know, seeing her gothrough that and seeing
these young adults say like,oh my gosh, this person
is not calling anymore.
You know, we'regoing different ways.
And it, it's like almostlike a grief process.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Wouldn't you say sometimes?
Dr. Robin (30:56):
Yes, of course.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, and it's funny 'causeI use grief a lot and, and
because I, I think like whenwe talk about grief, again,
it's one of those wordswhere you just go, whew.
Like, because it is, it'sone of those words that
you think grieving a death.
But I'm like, there'sdeath of situations.
Mm-hmm.
Of course there's, youknow, death of friendship.
Yeah.
There's losses and everythingand sometimes, but there's
(31:17):
a lot of times where youhave to, because again, if
you don't grieve that heart,you can't move over here.
Like I tell my people, I'mlike, it's like you've got
one arm here, but you're stilltrying to hold on to all that.
And it was funny, I evenasked my one client that
we were talking aboutthe kind of outgrowing.
(31:39):
You could see her struggling.
And I go, what is it inyou that you're not okay?
You know, losing this friendshipor you know, is it, and so
sometimes it is, it's likewhen we stay too long or when
we're struggling, it's like,okay, is it them or is it me?
Mm-hmm.
You know?
Which goes back again toknowing you what boundaries
or, you know, am I allowedor you know, I mean, it's
(31:59):
just all these things.
But No, absolutely.
I would say youhave to grieve that.
Nella (32:04):
Yeah.
And that's one thing people,it's the acceptance part of
that too, but that of course isa part of the stage of grief.
Mm-hmm.
So, but I've noticed that too,you know, if the young adults
grieving that, that part of whothey were, like my son is doing
a much better job of doing it.
But Anaya just her personality,she's having a harder time,
I think, with that process.
So.
TJ (32:24):
Yeah.
And, you know, and, and, andshe's still young too, so
it, like at that age, likeif you lose a friend, it's
like, oh, the world's ending.
Nella (32:31):
Yeah.
TJ (32:31):
You know, even if that friend was not a good
friend to you, you know?
Right.
Because sometimes it is onesided where you like somebody
so much and you know that,or they don't return that, or
they're not as nice to you,but you still like that person.
Right.
But then the friendshipends and you still
grieve that friendship.
You know.
Absolutely.
But I think of course theolder we get, I know the more
(32:54):
wisdom hopefully we attain.
Exactly.
And so Exactly.
And it starts to become
Nella (32:57):
easier.
TJ (32:57):
Absolutely.
Yep.
Absolutely.
And what
Nella (32:59):
would you say TJ, like would be like boundary issues
that like you've seen that areeither common with people or
maybe something that you'veexperienced with boundary
issues and friendships?
Well, you know, I
TJ (33:12):
think.
Sometimes you, you, you havethose friends that they overstep
that or they overspeak, right?
Like I, I, I say, youknow, this is what I've
told my adult daughters.
The more you tell people,the more right you
give them to speak intowhatever your situation is.
Because the first thing thatwe normally hear is, girl, if
(33:32):
I were you, I wouldn't do that.
Mm-hmm.
Or girl, you need to justcut him a loose or girl, you
just need to get another job.
Girl, if you, if I wereyou and my main thing
is, but you're not me.
Right.
I don't wanna knowwhat you would do.
Right?
Because sometimes whatyour friend would do is,
is not always the rightthing to do, but I I see a
lot of, you know, um, fromfriendship to friendship,
(33:53):
like a lot of overstepping,you know, or a lot of over
speaking or, or, you know,solicited advice or solicited
advice of my things I hate.
Right?
Unsolicited advice.
And then when you say, well, youknow what, I understand that,
but I'm gonna choose to do this,and then they get all upset.
Like, that's been apersonal experience of mine.
But then I also have clientswho have said the same, or
(34:14):
they're like, well, you know, Idon't really wanna say anything
to my friend 'cause I don'twanna lose the friendship.
And I said, well, ifyou're stuck on losing the
friendship, the friendship'snot intact anyway.
Yes.
Because I'm not stuck onlosing a friendship mm-hmm.
If I'm having an issue.
And of course I'vehad to learn this.
So it's, it, it, youknow, it takes time.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
If there's something that Ireally think that is hindering
the friendship or stopping thefriendship from continuing,
(34:35):
I have to speak to it.
Now I'll process it first, butI have to speak to it because
if not, we can't move into thedirection that we're, that we
wanna move in, there's gonna besomething that's gonna stop it.
And you know, I've hada friendship like that
and I'm like, I can'tgo back to my old ways.
'cause my old wayswas disconnect and
I'm like, I'm good.
(34:56):
We don't have to continuethis friendship, but
I'm trying to, you know.
Not allow that to stop thefriendship, especially if the
friendship is worth saving.
You know what I mean?
So I think that's like thebiggest thing I I, I see a
lot of, of girl, if I were yougirl, if I were you, girl, you
should girl, you should, youknow, and I think sometimes,
(35:17):
and I'm, I'm learning to bethis friend too, sometimes, just
listen and I'll ask, would youlike me to give you some advice
on that or do you just wantme to just, you know, listen.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
And a lot of times friends,they don't expect that.
So they're like, oh, oh yeah.
I just, I just wanna vent.
Right?
And so I've, they ventand with no judgment.
Nella (35:38):
I like that.
Dr. Robin (35:39):
So one thing you just said was about
advice and two times.
One client and thenalso Antonio, my son.
'cause we are do have anew grand baby five weeks.
So, you know, we're not quitewith you yet, but I know, and
I know now saw the, well youcan't play the part with my dad
and is not coming over at all.
Sorry.
So until you're groan.
(36:01):
But um, but it was funnybecause, you know, uh, Antonio
sat me down in something'cause he was struggling in
a situation like this and hegoes, well, 'cause sometimes,
you know, when I give adviceand I just went, stop.
I go, here's the thing.
I go, I know you, Iknow what's going on.
I said, but here'sthe thing with advice.
I said, anytime yougive advice solicitor,
(36:23):
unsolicited, they can alwaysput the blame back on you.
You know?
And so some even time withthat, like when you said
like, do you want my advice?
Or you know, even with that.
I think that's different.
And we obviously know and wedo a lot of this stuff, but I'm
always like about a perspective.
You know, I'm always about a,you know, okay, I know what
I would do in this situation,but I also know you too.
But have we lookedat it like this?
You know, instead of likesaying, well, and again, I
(36:47):
love to build that empowermentother people and say, well,
okay, this is your life.
What do you want?
You know, what do, do youreally know what you want?
'cause if you don'tknow what you want.
I can't really help you, butif you can get an idea, then
we can start to work together.
And it is more oflike a collaboration.
And so, you know, andhe was like, I didn't
think about it like that.
He goes, 'cause a lot of times.
(37:09):
They asked for advice,I give it to 'em.
They don't do it.
I get mad.
That's what, and Isaid, and there you go.
Absolutely.
Because again, you know,that's, that goes back to that.
Do you wanna be rescuedor wanna be helped?
They gotta do their part.
And so, but also, there wasone thing that I had up in
my office all last week andthis week, and, and it really
helped me so, so, so much.
And it was right online, whatyou were saying, and it says,
(37:30):
people lie patterns don't.
Nella (37:31):
Hmm.
You
Dr. Robin (37:32):
know, and so that's the thing when you can see a
pattern of behavior becausewhen, when we stepped out of
our emotional conditioning andconnectedness, 'cause of course
when we have our friends and ourpeople, you know, that's where
we start to attach feelingsand hurt and this and that.
But if you can come backand say, okay, but the
(37:52):
pattern of behavior.
This is what it is.
So, I mean, you can say that,but this is what's showing
again, and I understand that.
And even with that, I thinksometimes helps when you're
having that conversation about,um, you know, this friendship
like it, this is tough to say.
However, this is the patternthat I continue to see.
(38:16):
And it doesn't workfor me, you know?
And I'm struggling, you know?
And if it's like, even oneof these things, like we were
talking about making plans withpeople, you know, and it's like
they canceled, they canceled,they canceled, they canceled.
But by God, if you don't pickup the phone one time, you
know, I'm like, oh, I'm sorry.
What?
TJ (38:33):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Robin (38:33):
Five times.
You aren't here,but you're okay.
But you know, and then yougo, you have to look at, but
their pattern of behavior.
That doesn't lie.
And that's, and that showsa lack of mutual respect.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that again, clearlywhere we thought we were
in that relationship isnot where they have put us.
(38:54):
Mm-hmm.
You those expectations.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And so I definitely think thathas helped me, you know, trying
to understand some things.
You know, it's just like, okay,well, but the pattern is there,
so I'm not gonna take this on.
But then I can also make adecision based on the pattern.
Nella (39:11):
Yep.
And I, you know, thatthe pattern predicts
future behavior.
So we need to, I mean,that even goes along with
friendships for sure.
Mm-hmm.
So I think that's one key thingtoo for sure to think about when
you're choosing friendships,when you're trying to keep
friendships, is looking at thepattern and behavior and also
the pattern that you see withthem, with their other friends.
Mm-hmm.
TJ (39:29):
Absolutely.
Nella (39:29):
So, you know, if you see them be cer, you
know, a certain way with thefriendships or kind of like.
You know, toss them asidesometimes or maybe not listen,
or maybe they're talking trashabout their other friends.
I still say that they're goingto do the same about you.
Yeah.
And I've learned that as well.
Like, okay, I knowthis group of friends.
I know what they're, that'swhy you limit what you say
in front of certain people.
Um, because if not, you know,it's just gonna go to other.
(39:51):
Other places thatyou don't want it to.
Yeah.
So, well, that is all fortoday's episode, A cut time.
And, um, hey, if you guyshave not subscribed yet,
please subscribe because we'regetting up there in views,
we're getting up there indownloads, so keep doing it.
And hey.
If you have any suggestions oftopics that you want us to do,
(40:11):
absolutely talk about, pleasereach out to us, YouTube.
Um, there's also an emaillink in there that you can do.
So reach out to us.
Yes.
Yeah,
Dr. Robin (40:19):
that'd be great.
'cause we, I mean, thisis for y'all, so Exactly.
Nella (40:22):
Absolute.
We, we'll talkabout some topics.
We'll even name you if you wantto and, and all that good stuff.
Yeah.
Whatever you wanna do.
Dr. Robin (40:27):
Ask
Nella (40:27):
a, ask a clinician.
We're ready for it.
There you go.
Ready?
Tj, what would you do?
All right, everyone,have a good day.
Thank you.
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