September 23, 2025 • 28 mins
“As long as we are making progress everyday toward that goal, we will get through the imposter syndrome…” - Edy Hackett
In this episode, I sit down with Edy Hackett, an author and seasoned writing coach, to talk about what it really takes to keep going and build a solid habit that you can commit to for the long term.
We discussed:
- The essentials of the writing craft every author should master
- How to stay motivated and build sustainable writing habits
- The benefits of working with a writing coach
- And we wrap up with Edy's 5 Best Tips for Authors: actionable tips you can use to help elevate your manuscript today.
Whether you’re staring down a blank page or dreaming of finally writing the book, this episode is packed with encouragement, strategies, and insight to help you build sustainable habits so you can show up for your writing and honor your gift.
If you are interested in learning more about Edy Hackett's coaching, please follow her links below:
Have a publishing question? Email me at mica@micamerrillrice.com
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Website: micamerrillrice.com
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"Traditionally Self-Published" theme music is written by Landon Bailey and performed and produced by LNDÖ
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
What's up plot twisters and a warm welcome to
my page turners, the intriguedreaders and listeners who are
just stepping into the story.
Whatever title you fancy today,I am so happy you're here with
us.
You're listening toTraditionally Self-Published,
(00:21):
where we unravel the chaos ofself-publishing and help you
write your own success storylike a pro.
I'm your host, MikaMerrill-Rice, author with a
passion for learning and sharingthe love.
I'm bringing you real talk withpublishing pros and indie
authors, just like me, whoflipped the script and built
thriving author careers on theirown terms and are doing it like
(00:42):
a pro.
Whether you're rewriting yourthird novel or still plotting
your first, you're right whereyou need to be.
Today we are getting coachedfrom someone who knows what it
takes to motivate and help yourefine your process.
If you've ever wondered whatseparates a published author
from a hobbyist just scribblingon the pages, this episode is
for you.
I am joined today by EdieHackett, a professional writing
(01:04):
coach and women's fictionauthor.
Today we're going to talk aboutthe writing craft, how to keep
our motivation and build a goodhabit, the benefits of hiring a
writing coach, and then we'rebest tips for authors.
So let's be bold, write smart,and learn how to keep readers
(01:24):
turning the pages.
So hello, Miss Edie.
How are you today?
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
I'm good.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
I'm really looking forward tothis conversation and talking
all things writing coach andfinding out what we can get out
of a writing coach and how wecan find you if we need you.
So let's go ahead and getstarted.
So my first question is a Ithink the
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
biggest...
problem that comes up over timewith new writers and old writers
is imposter syndrome and feelinglike your words and your story
are not good enough.
I think that it's something weall struggle with and to kind of
(02:16):
overcome that you need to notcompare yourself to other
writers journeys.
You need to compare your ownjourney to where you were
yesterday and when you thinkabout the the path to get to
publication and all the stepsthat you're learning along the
way, it's okay to take a break.
(02:37):
It's okay to take a walk throughthe woods and come back.
As long as we're making progressevery day towards that end goal,
we will get through the impostersyndrome because with learning,
you will gain confidence.
in the process and within yourwriting.
And I think those are things wegive up too quickly as writers
(03:00):
when we just need to keeppushing through to get the story
told.
SPEAKER_00 (03:05):
I love it.
I think that's really goodadvice, especially like
comparing yourself to what youwere yesterday.
That's sort of that like 1%better than yesterday type of
approach.
I really, I really think that'sa pretty telling.
So how do you help writers buildlike a consistent writing habit?
Because I know a lot of us likefall in and out of it.
And some of us, I'm notmentioning my own name, maybe
(03:28):
start and we're like fiveminutes.
And then, you know, four monthslater, we still haven't written
anything.
So especially juggling thingslike jobs and kids and you know
your self-doubt like how do youkind of tell your your your
clients like this is what youneed to do to build this
consistent writing
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
so I am structured by nature.
It's just who I am inside.
And I feel that finding a blockof time, even if it is just 10
minutes of quiet before the kidswake up to sit down and either
get some words on paper or sitdown and brainstorm ideas is
(04:11):
moving forward.
So I Depending on where you arein your life, what season of
life you're in, how many ballsyou're juggling in the air will
determine how much free time youhave, realistically, to get
writing done.
And to write a book, it's noteasy.
It takes a lot of time and a lotof dedication.
And it does require somestructure, I feel.
(04:35):
So just putting aside...
five minutes, 10 minutes, a halfan hour every day, you'll start
to see that progress on aday-to-day basis and that will
motivate you to keep going.
So that's the number one tip Ihave for that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:53):
I think that's really good advice.
I mean, I think for some, I knowfor me in the beginning, it's
definitely a hard pill toswallow.
You know, I am structured andthen I'm also fall out of that
structure.
So reminding myself that if youreally wanna do this, you need
to find the time to do it.
But even starting with likesmall habits is, that's great
(05:15):
advice.
SPEAKER_01 (05:16):
And I think too, we often commit to more than we can
handle.
And that's okay, too.
It's okay to take a step back.
And it doesn't mean you failedor are failing.
It just means that at this time,what you need in your life is
less time focusing on yourwriting or whatever is taking up
(05:39):
your time.
And that's okay, because as lifechanges, you will get back to
where you want to be.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
Awesome.
I love it.
All right, let's talk about theactual story a little bit.
This is something near and dear.
It's something that I tried toachieve with my own writing.
I'm sure you do too.
But what do you find the bestway is to get that emotional
depth from our characters?
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
So I am a huge Enneagram fan.
I feel that before you even getstarted with your story, you
kind of need to know who yourcharacter is.
Maybe you can journal andpretend that you are them with
different situations andscenarios.
How would they react?
How would they respond?
But if you know their Enneagramtype, if you know what kind of
(06:29):
problem they're going to beapproaching in your story and
how they're going to handle it,you can figure out their type
and And by knowing their type,you now know their motivation,
you know what they want, youknow what their fear is.
And so those three things willhelp shape your story so that
(06:50):
you are able to realisticallyand in character have your
character respond to thosesituations.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Awesome.
It's something that I have notyet done.
I haven't done the Enneagram,but I'm very, very curious about
it.
Is there any one place that youwould go to to learn about
Enneagrams or a book that mightbe out there where you would
kind of learn what it is and howyou apply that?
SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
So there's so many resources online with different
breakdowns.
You know, you can even look atcharacter wounds, emotional
wounds, wounds from yourchildhood that have now turned
you into this number that willhelp with your character
development as well.
But the Enneagram Institute is agreat resource.
(07:38):
They specialize in Enneagram andthey have very in-depth articles
about the different numbers andit's all online for free.
SPEAKER_00 (07:46):
Awesome.
All right.
What about rules?
Do you have any writing rulesthat you love to break or are
you a rule follower and it mustbe like this, this and this?
SPEAKER_01 (07:56):
I mean, the whole pantsing, plotting controversy,
you know, it's hard to know.
where you fall on that spectrum.
So sometimes I try to plot andsometimes I don't.
And I am a real follower throughand through.
I love to read.
I love to research.
(08:17):
I love to take notes.
But when it comes to organizingmy story, that is the one area
where I try to be a little bitmore flexible or spontaneous and
just kind of see what happenswith that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
Yeah, I agree.
Awesome.
Well, speaking of pantser,plotter and planser, how do you
coach the different styles?
I'm sure that you see one or allof them, but do you recommend
one over the others?
Or do you kind of like takewhatever your clients need and
say, well, have you tried thisor that?
SPEAKER_01 (08:52):
Yeah, I mean, I don't it.
We are all so different, right?
Our brains work differently.
We have different strengths.
And so some people, plotting isvery easy.
Other people, they plot and thenthey can't write because they
feel it takes the creativity outof their story.
So when you're coaching, becausewe are all coming from a
(09:15):
different place when it comes toorganization, It's important to
meet the writer where they are.
So for me, I love structure andI try to recommend different
organizational techniques thatmight help.
But when it comes down to it,I'm not the one writing the
(09:36):
story, they are.
And so it's important for me torecognize what they're
comfortable with and then comeup with strategies that will
foster that type of creativity.
SPEAKER_00 (09:49):
Awesome.
Very, very good.
What about guiding writers andspecifically through the messy
middle?
I think this is the hardestpart.
Full disclosure for everybody,anybody that I've spoken to is
like, I'm in the middle.
It's, it's so difficult.
You're like, this is crap.
I can't even believe I justwrote this, but you get through
(10:11):
it anyway.
So how do you guide writersthrough that and kind of give
them the confidence to getthrough the messy middle?
SPEAKER_01 (10:17):
So the messy middle is really when that imposter
syndrome comes out.
But one thing that I learnedthat really will help people get
focused on where their story isgoing is an inside outline.
And so what it is, is you lookat your character from scene to
scene, you jot down what ishappening externally, and then
(10:42):
what is the internal response ofyour character to that
situation?
And then that responseimmediately feeds into the next
situation that that character isin.
So you're constantly connectingthe emotional response to the
action on the page.
(11:03):
And that will help propel yourcharacter through the story.
So when you're towards the endof the messy middle and you
maybe have 100,000 words thatyou have to get through and
figure out what needs to be cut,that's a really great way to do
it.
So going back and rereading whatyou wrote and take notes on the
(11:24):
external and the internal shiftand how they're shaping each
other.
And then therefore you caneliminate the pieces of the
story that maybe aren't movingit forward.
SPEAKER_00 (11:38):
That's great.
I love that advice.
Because like I said, I think allof us kind of struggle with it.
I do agree that I think theimposter syndrome definitely
takes over.
I love that you I love that youcall it that because I've never
really had like a word to callit, you know, like, I don't
know, maybe imposter syndrome islike new to me anyway, in the
(11:59):
last year or two.
But thinking about it, and youknow, as we get through the
messy middle of our novel, likethat's important to remember,
like just kind of dismiss it andcarry forward.
Awesome.
So we are now in mindset andmotivation.
I want to talk a little bitabout this as well.
Many writers start, not everywriter finishes.
(12:21):
So what do you think separates awriter from one who finishes
their manuscript to one thatjust lets it kind of sit there
and collect dust?
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
So I think...
the characteristics that allwriters have because it is a
long process.
It is a very long process to getthe story on paper and then get
the manuscript to a place whereyou want other people to write
it.
And so I feel that having driveand determination and just grit
(12:55):
and being able to carry throughthose uncomfortable moments or
those moments when you want toquit that you just keep pushing
through.
Those are the things I feel allauthors have, all writers.
And even if you just start witha short story, if a novel is too
(13:18):
overwhelming to even thinkabout, start with a short story
and get it to the end and sitwith it, see how it feels.
And then maybe the next timeyou're going to move on to a
novella, make it a little bitlonger, sit with it, see how it
feels.
All of this practice is leadingyou to the place where you will
eventually be.
(13:38):
And I know a lot of times wearen't moving as quickly as we
want to, right?
Like our, our brain wants to bedone, but we, Every step along
the way is a learning experienceto get your writing or whatever
it is that you're doing betterand stronger so that when you do
reach your goal, it will be thebest that it can be.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
That is fantastic.
Writing a short story.
I've never thought about that.
I guess when I started this, I'mlike, we're just going all in.
I ended at a novella, but I kindof felt like that's just where
the story needed to end at thatpoint.
But maybe that's where I neededto start the writing journey.
So that's I love that bit ofadvice.
And I hope that the listenerstake that to heart as well.
(14:24):
Like we're not maybe not meantto write a novel right away.
But I love that just getting thepractice and kind of working
with it.
And you never know, like shortstories can turn into novels
eventually too, so.
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, you write your characterand you're like, you know what,
I think there's more here.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (14:41):
I love it.
What about mindset shifts?
What mindset shifts do you thinkevery author could make like
right out of the gate that justkind of keep them going or
whatever it is?
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
So I feel like the media, when a new author comes
on, the media...
you know, they portray them asthis overnight success.
And we don't see the years priorto that moment.
And that is who we're comparingourselves to.
(15:14):
You know, I want to be the nextNew York Times bestseller.
And they make it look so easy.
How is it so easy for them andso hard for me?
And I think you have tounderstand from the very
beginning that it is not goingto be easy and it is not going
to be fast because you as a newwriter are starting something
(15:38):
you have no experience with.
Sure, you might read a lot, butto get a story onto paper and
then for other readers to readThere's a lot of nuances that
you will be learning for years.
The other thing that I wouldlike early writers to know is
(16:01):
that you don't have to knoweverything in order to get your
book done.
Because if you wait until youfeel you know everything, it's
never going to be published.
Because in this industry, thingschange so incredibly fast.
You might know something lastweek.
(16:23):
Well, guess what?
Something changed.
And now what you were writingfor or what you were going for
is completely off the table.
So now you have to relearn it ina different way.
So understand it's not easy.
And also, you don't need to knoweverything.
And I think those are two thingsthat we really struggle with as
humans, as people.
(16:44):
We like things fast and we liketo be good at it.
There's always going to be moreto learn.
SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
Yeah, I agree.
What about your go-to pep talkor just a nugget of advice for
any writer who wants to give up?
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
I mean, I just feel progress over perfection is the
mantra that you should betelling yourself every single
day when you're writing.
I think having a writingcommunity is very important as
well, whether it's a friendwho's also writing that you met
online maybe it's a familymember that knows you love
(17:26):
writing just someone to supportyou through this journey because
sometimes you feel misunderstoodum or you know people might make
a comment like oh it's just ahobby or oh you want to be a
writer that's great you know butYou need those supportive people
(17:48):
because when times do get tough,you need them to push you along.
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
Yeah, I agree, which is why I love Quill and Cup so
very much.
It's a great place to be forsomething like that.
It's all about the community.
All right, so let's talk aboutyour journey to coaching.
So you are balancing this authorlife, your mom life, your
everything all at once.
How do you...
(18:13):
How do you do that?
Like, how do you kind of figureout that balance between all of
it?
SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
So I am an Enneagram too, which is the helper.
So I love to help people.
It just fills my bucket, really.
It makes me feel good to knowother people are reaching their
dreams because of things thatmaybe I've experienced and can
shed some light on as they'regoing through it, or I can help
(18:42):
them troubleshoot and brainstormas they're going through it.
So that's how I got into thecoaching thing in the first
place.
But I think just juggling itall, it's understanding that
there are a lot of balls in theair and there are times when
(19:06):
some balls are bigger thanothers.
And again, that's okay.
You have to kind ofreprioritize.
But you need to be flexible aswell.
And I think that flexibilitywith me and wanting variety in
my life.
So having a bunch of differentareas of the writing and
publishing fields that I'm kindof working through with others
(19:32):
is very motivating for me.
And so those are the reasons whyI got into coaching in the first
place.
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Awesome.
And what's it like working witha writing coach?
I personally have never workedwith one.
So day one, I've called youEdie.
I'm like, I don't know what theheck I'm doing.
What are what is it like fromthe day I call you to?
I can't believe I just finishedmy entire novel with you.
Thank you.
What is that like, from day oneinto the end?
SPEAKER_01 (20:01):
Oh, Every coaching experience is a relationship and
it's important that you're agood fit, right?
Because it is such an intimateactivity and you're very
vulnerable when you're a newwriter and you need to make sure
that you trust the person thatyou're working with.
So from the very beginning, wewould just do a free call where
(20:24):
we talk.
Where are you in your writing?
What are you hoping?
What is your timeline?
What do you need?
What are your strengths?
What are your weaknesses?
Just getting to know each other.
And then if it is a fit that thewriter feels would benefit them,
then we would set up...
(20:44):
whatever they're able to do,whether it's monthly or weekly,
a coaching call.
They would send a couplechapters to me.
I would go through it.
I would write up a letter offeedback, email it back to them,
and then we would have a Zoomcall where we would talk about
it.
But coaching is isn't just theday-to-day of writing.
(21:06):
So coaching is also manuscriptevaluations and running through
their entire story and doingsomething similar to a
developmental edit.
Where are your strengths?
Where are your weaknesses?
What are some things that we canwork on together to make
stronger?
And then the only Other piecefor me and my business is
(21:29):
self-publishing is where I am.
That's where I live.
And so if someone is pursuingthe self-publishing avenue, I
can help them navigate that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
Awesome.
I think more and more writersare kind of turning to the self
publishing.
Not just I, I think some peopleget this impression that maybe
that's like last ditch effort.
This is just what they're goingto do to publish.
But I think it's actually morethan that.
I think it's about owning yourart.
You know, it's a business.
A lot of traditional publishersaren't going to do the marketing
(22:07):
for you anyway, unless you'relike huge.
So it's really good to havesomebody like you in our court
kind of guiding us and coachingus along the way.
So all right, what about keybreakthrough moments that you've
witnessed, like that make thispart of your job totally worth
it?
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
So I love when I'm working with writers, and they
have a moment of clarity, whereprior they were, they didn't
know where to go, right?
They don't know how to moveforward from here.
And my job is to ask questionsto kind of open up their
(22:48):
thinking so my job is not totell you where your story is
going my job is to help you findthe path where your story is
going and a lot of times onceyou get through that initial
roadblock the story just takesoff on its own the characters
are making decisions and it justseeing that ease on the writer's
(23:13):
face and the excitement becausethey're no longer questioning
themselves is really rewarding.
SPEAKER_00 (23:20):
That's great.
And what's one thing you wishmore writers understood about
the value of coaching?
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
So I feel like nowadays, coaching on any form
is becoming more and morenormative.
You know, having a life coach,having an ADHD coach, having a
writing coach.
If you're playing an instrument,you go to a teacher.
We want to better ourselves inan area that we don't have a lot
(23:51):
of experience in.
And it's the norm to seek outsomeone who has that experience
to help you.
The value of coaching...
I wish I had a coach when I hadfirst started because I was
fumbling through and I didn'tknow anything.
You know, I was investing incourses that were not helpful to
(24:16):
me.
I was reading books that Ididn't understand.
I didn't have any writer friendsin the community.
So when you get those supportsunder you, you're able to
flourish that much faster.
And I think it's important thatwe remember that as we're going
(24:37):
through it, because yes, thereis a cost, but you need to weigh
the benefit of that to where youwant to end up in six months, a
year, two years from now.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
I agree.
Like I think I said at thebeginning, I didn't have anybody
in my court In the beginning, Istarted writing in 2020.
It took me almost five years toactually publish.
And I fully believe a lot ofthat had to do with I didn't
have anybody to ask questions.
And just like you said, like,can only get so much from
(25:11):
reading books and viewing peopleonline, but having like an
honest conversation, or bouncingideas or having somebody just to
kind of cheerlead you and be inyour court that knows exactly
what you're going through isextremely, extremely important.
helpful.
So awesome, Edie.
So last thing, well, not lastthing, but where can listeners
(25:35):
learn more about coaching orconnect with you for support?
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
So I have a website, Last Page Press, and that is
kind of my overall archingcompany.
So you'll see a tab for mywriting, and then you'll see a
tab for my coaching, which goesstraight to my coaching website.
So my company is the StoryKeeper Book Coach.
(26:03):
That's where all my coachinginfo is.
I'm on Instagram and Facebookand TikTok, which hasn't been
overly active, but I do have anaccount on there if you are
interested.
So the Story Keeper Book Coachis
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
Awesome.
I'm going to look you up becauseI didn't know you were on
TikTok.
So I'm going to find you theretoo.
All right, we made it.
Ink starter lightning round.
Okay.
So if your writing career were amovie, what title would it be?
The Fast and the Furious.
I love it.
All right.
What's one book you wish youcould read again for the very
(26:41):
first time?
SPEAKER_01 (26:41):
Anxious People by Frederick Bachman.
Love, love that.
SPEAKER_00 (26:46):
Awesome.
And what's one thing you wishwriters would stop doing?
SPEAKER_01 (26:52):
Chasing the next shiny object.
SPEAKER_00 (26:56):
Awesome.
And then what about insane plottwist or emotional gut punch?
Which are you reaching forfirst?
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Emotional gut punch.
SPEAKER_00 (27:06):
All right.
And describe your coaching stylein three words.
SPEAKER_01 (27:09):
Approachable, teamwork, and structured.
SPEAKER_00 (27:15):
Fantastic.
All right.
And then we are going to endwith Edie's five actionable
tips.
These are going to be tips thatyou're going to share with our
authors that they can do rightnow after this call to just kind
of help elevate their writingcareer.
So what are your five tips thatyou're going to leave us with
today?
SPEAKER_01 (27:37):
Get it on paper because you can't edit a blank
page.
Trust your gut.
Do your research.
Get to know your characters.
and don't be afraid of feedback.
SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
Yes, I think that last point is especially
important for all of us.
Thank you so much, Edie, forjoining my show today.
Yes, we had I had so much funwith you.
And I just appreciate yousharing some of your coaching
advice and for giving us yourfive must have tips.
So if you're interested inlearning more about Edie
Hackett's coaching services orcheck out her latest release,
(28:11):
you can check the show notes forher website and places you can
purchase her books.
Be bold, write smart, and keepturning those pages.
What's up plot twisters and a warm welcome to
my page turners, the intriguedreaders and listeners who are
just stepping into the story.
Whatever title you fancy today,I am so happy you're here with
us.
You're listening toTraditionally Self-Published,
(00:21):
where we unravel the chaos ofself-publishing and help you
write your own success storylike a pro.
I'm your host, MikaMerrill-Rice, author with a
passion for learning and sharingthe love.
I'm bringing you real talk withpublishing pros and indie
authors, just like me, whoflipped the script and built
thriving author careers on theirown terms and are doing it like
(00:42):
a pro.
Whether you're rewriting yourthird novel or still plotting
your first, you're right whereyou need to be.
Today we are getting coachedfrom someone who knows what it
takes to motivate and help yourefine your process.
If you've ever wondered whatseparates a published author
from a hobbyist just scribblingon the pages, this episode is
for you.
I am joined today by EdieHackett, a professional writing
(01:04):
coach and women's fictionauthor.
Today we're going to talk aboutthe writing craft, how to keep
our motivation and build a goodhabit, the benefits of hiring a
writing coach, and then we'rebest tips for authors.
So let's be bold, write smart,and learn how to keep readers
(01:24):
turning the pages.
So hello, Miss Edie.
How are you today?
Good.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
How are you doing?
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
I'm good.
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
I'm really looking forward tothis conversation and talking
all things writing coach andfinding out what we can get out
of a writing coach and how wecan find you if we need you.
So let's go ahead and getstarted.
So my first question is a Ithink the
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
biggest...
problem that comes up over timewith new writers and old writers
is imposter syndrome and feelinglike your words and your story
are not good enough.
I think that it's something weall struggle with and to kind of
(02:16):
overcome that you need to notcompare yourself to other
writers journeys.
You need to compare your ownjourney to where you were
yesterday and when you thinkabout the the path to get to
publication and all the stepsthat you're learning along the
way, it's okay to take a break.
(02:37):
It's okay to take a walk throughthe woods and come back.
As long as we're making progressevery day towards that end goal,
we will get through the impostersyndrome because with learning,
you will gain confidence.
in the process and within yourwriting.
And I think those are things wegive up too quickly as writers
(03:00):
when we just need to keeppushing through to get the story
told.
SPEAKER_00 (03:05):
I love it.
I think that's really goodadvice, especially like
comparing yourself to what youwere yesterday.
That's sort of that like 1%better than yesterday type of
approach.
I really, I really think that'sa pretty telling.
So how do you help writers buildlike a consistent writing habit?
Because I know a lot of us likefall in and out of it.
And some of us, I'm notmentioning my own name, maybe
(03:28):
start and we're like fiveminutes.
And then, you know, four monthslater, we still haven't written
anything.
So especially juggling thingslike jobs and kids and you know
your self-doubt like how do youkind of tell your your your
clients like this is what youneed to do to build this
consistent writing
SPEAKER_01 (03:46):
so I am structured by nature.
It's just who I am inside.
And I feel that finding a blockof time, even if it is just 10
minutes of quiet before the kidswake up to sit down and either
get some words on paper or sitdown and brainstorm ideas is
(04:11):
moving forward.
So I Depending on where you arein your life, what season of
life you're in, how many ballsyou're juggling in the air will
determine how much free time youhave, realistically, to get
writing done.
And to write a book, it's noteasy.
It takes a lot of time and a lotof dedication.
And it does require somestructure, I feel.
(04:35):
So just putting aside...
five minutes, 10 minutes, a halfan hour every day, you'll start
to see that progress on aday-to-day basis and that will
motivate you to keep going.
So that's the number one tip Ihave for that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:53):
I think that's really good advice.
I mean, I think for some, I knowfor me in the beginning, it's
definitely a hard pill toswallow.
You know, I am structured andthen I'm also fall out of that
structure.
So reminding myself that if youreally wanna do this, you need
to find the time to do it.
But even starting with likesmall habits is, that's great
(05:15):
advice.
SPEAKER_01 (05:16):
And I think too, we often commit to more than we can
handle.
And that's okay, too.
It's okay to take a step back.
And it doesn't mean you failedor are failing.
It just means that at this time,what you need in your life is
less time focusing on yourwriting or whatever is taking up
(05:39):
your time.
And that's okay, because as lifechanges, you will get back to
where you want to be.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
Awesome.
I love it.
All right, let's talk about theactual story a little bit.
This is something near and dear.
It's something that I tried toachieve with my own writing.
I'm sure you do too.
But what do you find the bestway is to get that emotional
depth from our characters?
SPEAKER_01 (06:06):
So I am a huge Enneagram fan.
I feel that before you even getstarted with your story, you
kind of need to know who yourcharacter is.
Maybe you can journal andpretend that you are them with
different situations andscenarios.
How would they react?
How would they respond?
But if you know their Enneagramtype, if you know what kind of
(06:29):
problem they're going to beapproaching in your story and
how they're going to handle it,you can figure out their type
and And by knowing their type,you now know their motivation,
you know what they want, youknow what their fear is.
And so those three things willhelp shape your story so that
(06:50):
you are able to realisticallyand in character have your
character respond to thosesituations.
SPEAKER_00 (06:59):
Awesome.
It's something that I have notyet done.
I haven't done the Enneagram,but I'm very, very curious about
it.
Is there any one place that youwould go to to learn about
Enneagrams or a book that mightbe out there where you would
kind of learn what it is and howyou apply that?
SPEAKER_01 (07:16):
So there's so many resources online with different
breakdowns.
You know, you can even look atcharacter wounds, emotional
wounds, wounds from yourchildhood that have now turned
you into this number that willhelp with your character
development as well.
But the Enneagram Institute is agreat resource.
(07:38):
They specialize in Enneagram andthey have very in-depth articles
about the different numbers andit's all online for free.
SPEAKER_00 (07:46):
Awesome.
All right.
What about rules?
Do you have any writing rulesthat you love to break or are
you a rule follower and it mustbe like this, this and this?
SPEAKER_01 (07:56):
I mean, the whole pantsing, plotting controversy,
you know, it's hard to know.
where you fall on that spectrum.
So sometimes I try to plot andsometimes I don't.
And I am a real follower throughand through.
I love to read.
I love to research.
(08:17):
I love to take notes.
But when it comes to organizingmy story, that is the one area
where I try to be a little bitmore flexible or spontaneous and
just kind of see what happenswith that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
Yeah, I agree.
Awesome.
Well, speaking of pantser,plotter and planser, how do you
coach the different styles?
I'm sure that you see one or allof them, but do you recommend
one over the others?
Or do you kind of like takewhatever your clients need and
say, well, have you tried thisor that?
SPEAKER_01 (08:52):
Yeah, I mean, I don't it.
We are all so different, right?
Our brains work differently.
We have different strengths.
And so some people, plotting isvery easy.
Other people, they plot and thenthey can't write because they
feel it takes the creativity outof their story.
So when you're coaching, becausewe are all coming from a
(09:15):
different place when it comes toorganization, It's important to
meet the writer where they are.
So for me, I love structure andI try to recommend different
organizational techniques thatmight help.
But when it comes down to it,I'm not the one writing the
(09:36):
story, they are.
And so it's important for me torecognize what they're
comfortable with and then comeup with strategies that will
foster that type of creativity.
SPEAKER_00 (09:49):
Awesome.
Very, very good.
What about guiding writers andspecifically through the messy
middle?
I think this is the hardestpart.
Full disclosure for everybody,anybody that I've spoken to is
like, I'm in the middle.
It's, it's so difficult.
You're like, this is crap.
I can't even believe I justwrote this, but you get through
(10:11):
it anyway.
So how do you guide writersthrough that and kind of give
them the confidence to getthrough the messy middle?
SPEAKER_01 (10:17):
So the messy middle is really when that imposter
syndrome comes out.
But one thing that I learnedthat really will help people get
focused on where their story isgoing is an inside outline.
And so what it is, is you lookat your character from scene to
scene, you jot down what ishappening externally, and then
(10:42):
what is the internal response ofyour character to that
situation?
And then that responseimmediately feeds into the next
situation that that character isin.
So you're constantly connectingthe emotional response to the
action on the page.
(11:03):
And that will help propel yourcharacter through the story.
So when you're towards the endof the messy middle and you
maybe have 100,000 words thatyou have to get through and
figure out what needs to be cut,that's a really great way to do
it.
So going back and rereading whatyou wrote and take notes on the
(11:24):
external and the internal shiftand how they're shaping each
other.
And then therefore you caneliminate the pieces of the
story that maybe aren't movingit forward.
SPEAKER_00 (11:38):
That's great.
I love that advice.
Because like I said, I think allof us kind of struggle with it.
I do agree that I think theimposter syndrome definitely
takes over.
I love that you I love that youcall it that because I've never
really had like a word to callit, you know, like, I don't
know, maybe imposter syndrome islike new to me anyway, in the
(11:59):
last year or two.
But thinking about it, and youknow, as we get through the
messy middle of our novel, likethat's important to remember,
like just kind of dismiss it andcarry forward.
Awesome.
So we are now in mindset andmotivation.
I want to talk a little bitabout this as well.
Many writers start, not everywriter finishes.
(12:21):
So what do you think separates awriter from one who finishes
their manuscript to one thatjust lets it kind of sit there
and collect dust?
SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
So I think...
the characteristics that allwriters have because it is a
long process.
It is a very long process to getthe story on paper and then get
the manuscript to a place whereyou want other people to write
it.
And so I feel that having driveand determination and just grit
(12:55):
and being able to carry throughthose uncomfortable moments or
those moments when you want toquit that you just keep pushing
through.
Those are the things I feel allauthors have, all writers.
And even if you just start witha short story, if a novel is too
(13:18):
overwhelming to even thinkabout, start with a short story
and get it to the end and sitwith it, see how it feels.
And then maybe the next timeyou're going to move on to a
novella, make it a little bitlonger, sit with it, see how it
feels.
All of this practice is leadingyou to the place where you will
eventually be.
(13:38):
And I know a lot of times wearen't moving as quickly as we
want to, right?
Like our, our brain wants to bedone, but we, Every step along
the way is a learning experienceto get your writing or whatever
it is that you're doing betterand stronger so that when you do
reach your goal, it will be thebest that it can be.
SPEAKER_00 (14:02):
That is fantastic.
Writing a short story.
I've never thought about that.
I guess when I started this, I'mlike, we're just going all in.
I ended at a novella, but I kindof felt like that's just where
the story needed to end at thatpoint.
But maybe that's where I neededto start the writing journey.
So that's I love that bit ofadvice.
And I hope that the listenerstake that to heart as well.
(14:24):
Like we're not maybe not meantto write a novel right away.
But I love that just getting thepractice and kind of working
with it.
And you never know, like shortstories can turn into novels
eventually too, so.
SPEAKER_01 (14:35):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, you write your characterand you're like, you know what,
I think there's more here.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (14:41):
I love it.
What about mindset shifts?
What mindset shifts do you thinkevery author could make like
right out of the gate that justkind of keep them going or
whatever it is?
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
So I feel like the media, when a new author comes
on, the media...
you know, they portray them asthis overnight success.
And we don't see the years priorto that moment.
And that is who we're comparingourselves to.
(15:14):
You know, I want to be the nextNew York Times bestseller.
And they make it look so easy.
How is it so easy for them andso hard for me?
And I think you have tounderstand from the very
beginning that it is not goingto be easy and it is not going
to be fast because you as a newwriter are starting something
(15:38):
you have no experience with.
Sure, you might read a lot, butto get a story onto paper and
then for other readers to readThere's a lot of nuances that
you will be learning for years.
The other thing that I wouldlike early writers to know is
(16:01):
that you don't have to knoweverything in order to get your
book done.
Because if you wait until youfeel you know everything, it's
never going to be published.
Because in this industry, thingschange so incredibly fast.
You might know something lastweek.
(16:23):
Well, guess what?
Something changed.
And now what you were writingfor or what you were going for
is completely off the table.
So now you have to relearn it ina different way.
So understand it's not easy.
And also, you don't need to knoweverything.
And I think those are two thingsthat we really struggle with as
humans, as people.
(16:44):
We like things fast and we liketo be good at it.
There's always going to be moreto learn.
SPEAKER_00 (16:52):
Yeah, I agree.
What about your go-to pep talkor just a nugget of advice for
any writer who wants to give up?
SPEAKER_01 (17:03):
I mean, I just feel progress over perfection is the
mantra that you should betelling yourself every single
day when you're writing.
I think having a writingcommunity is very important as
well, whether it's a friendwho's also writing that you met
online maybe it's a familymember that knows you love
(17:26):
writing just someone to supportyou through this journey because
sometimes you feel misunderstoodum or you know people might make
a comment like oh it's just ahobby or oh you want to be a
writer that's great you know butYou need those supportive people
(17:48):
because when times do get tough,you need them to push you along.
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
Yeah, I agree, which is why I love Quill and Cup so
very much.
It's a great place to be forsomething like that.
It's all about the community.
All right, so let's talk aboutyour journey to coaching.
So you are balancing this authorlife, your mom life, your
everything all at once.
How do you...
(18:13):
How do you do that?
Like, how do you kind of figureout that balance between all of
it?
SPEAKER_01 (18:20):
So I am an Enneagram too, which is the helper.
So I love to help people.
It just fills my bucket, really.
It makes me feel good to knowother people are reaching their
dreams because of things thatmaybe I've experienced and can
shed some light on as they'regoing through it, or I can help
(18:42):
them troubleshoot and brainstormas they're going through it.
So that's how I got into thecoaching thing in the first
place.
But I think just juggling itall, it's understanding that
there are a lot of balls in theair and there are times when
(19:06):
some balls are bigger thanothers.
And again, that's okay.
You have to kind ofreprioritize.
But you need to be flexible aswell.
And I think that flexibilitywith me and wanting variety in
my life.
So having a bunch of differentareas of the writing and
publishing fields that I'm kindof working through with others
(19:32):
is very motivating for me.
And so those are the reasons whyI got into coaching in the first
place.
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
Awesome.
And what's it like working witha writing coach?
I personally have never workedwith one.
So day one, I've called youEdie.
I'm like, I don't know what theheck I'm doing.
What are what is it like fromthe day I call you to?
I can't believe I just finishedmy entire novel with you.
Thank you.
What is that like, from day oneinto the end?
SPEAKER_01 (20:01):
Oh, Every coaching experience is a relationship and
it's important that you're agood fit, right?
Because it is such an intimateactivity and you're very
vulnerable when you're a newwriter and you need to make sure
that you trust the person thatyou're working with.
So from the very beginning, wewould just do a free call where
(20:24):
we talk.
Where are you in your writing?
What are you hoping?
What is your timeline?
What do you need?
What are your strengths?
What are your weaknesses?
Just getting to know each other.
And then if it is a fit that thewriter feels would benefit them,
then we would set up...
(20:44):
whatever they're able to do,whether it's monthly or weekly,
a coaching call.
They would send a couplechapters to me.
I would go through it.
I would write up a letter offeedback, email it back to them,
and then we would have a Zoomcall where we would talk about
it.
But coaching is isn't just theday-to-day of writing.
(21:06):
So coaching is also manuscriptevaluations and running through
their entire story and doingsomething similar to a
developmental edit.
Where are your strengths?
Where are your weaknesses?
What are some things that we canwork on together to make
stronger?
And then the only Other piecefor me and my business is
(21:29):
self-publishing is where I am.
That's where I live.
And so if someone is pursuingthe self-publishing avenue, I
can help them navigate that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
Awesome.
I think more and more writersare kind of turning to the self
publishing.
Not just I, I think some peopleget this impression that maybe
that's like last ditch effort.
This is just what they're goingto do to publish.
But I think it's actually morethan that.
I think it's about owning yourart.
You know, it's a business.
A lot of traditional publishersaren't going to do the marketing
(22:07):
for you anyway, unless you'relike huge.
So it's really good to havesomebody like you in our court
kind of guiding us and coachingus along the way.
So all right, what about keybreakthrough moments that you've
witnessed, like that make thispart of your job totally worth
it?
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
So I love when I'm working with writers, and they
have a moment of clarity, whereprior they were, they didn't
know where to go, right?
They don't know how to moveforward from here.
And my job is to ask questionsto kind of open up their
(22:48):
thinking so my job is not totell you where your story is
going my job is to help you findthe path where your story is
going and a lot of times onceyou get through that initial
roadblock the story just takesoff on its own the characters
are making decisions and it justseeing that ease on the writer's
(23:13):
face and the excitement becausethey're no longer questioning
themselves is really rewarding.
SPEAKER_00 (23:20):
That's great.
And what's one thing you wishmore writers understood about
the value of coaching?
SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
So I feel like nowadays, coaching on any form
is becoming more and morenormative.
You know, having a life coach,having an ADHD coach, having a
writing coach.
If you're playing an instrument,you go to a teacher.
We want to better ourselves inan area that we don't have a lot
(23:51):
of experience in.
And it's the norm to seek outsomeone who has that experience
to help you.
The value of coaching...
I wish I had a coach when I hadfirst started because I was
fumbling through and I didn'tknow anything.
You know, I was investing incourses that were not helpful to
(24:16):
me.
I was reading books that Ididn't understand.
I didn't have any writer friendsin the community.
So when you get those supportsunder you, you're able to
flourish that much faster.
And I think it's important thatwe remember that as we're going
(24:37):
through it, because yes, thereis a cost, but you need to weigh
the benefit of that to where youwant to end up in six months, a
year, two years from now.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
I agree.
Like I think I said at thebeginning, I didn't have anybody
in my court In the beginning, Istarted writing in 2020.
It took me almost five years toactually publish.
And I fully believe a lot ofthat had to do with I didn't
have anybody to ask questions.
And just like you said, like,can only get so much from
(25:11):
reading books and viewing peopleonline, but having like an
honest conversation, or bouncingideas or having somebody just to
kind of cheerlead you and be inyour court that knows exactly
what you're going through isextremely, extremely important.
helpful.
So awesome, Edie.
So last thing, well, not lastthing, but where can listeners
(25:35):
learn more about coaching orconnect with you for support?
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
So I have a website, Last Page Press, and that is
kind of my overall archingcompany.
So you'll see a tab for mywriting, and then you'll see a
tab for my coaching, which goesstraight to my coaching website.
So my company is the StoryKeeper Book Coach.
(26:03):
That's where all my coachinginfo is.
I'm on Instagram and Facebookand TikTok, which hasn't been
overly active, but I do have anaccount on there if you are
interested.
So the Story Keeper Book Coachis
SPEAKER_00 (26:19):
Awesome.
I'm going to look you up becauseI didn't know you were on
TikTok.
So I'm going to find you theretoo.
All right, we made it.
Ink starter lightning round.
Okay.
So if your writing career were amovie, what title would it be?
The Fast and the Furious.
I love it.
All right.
What's one book you wish youcould read again for the very
(26:41):
first time?
SPEAKER_01 (26:41):
Anxious People by Frederick Bachman.
Love, love that.
SPEAKER_00 (26:46):
Awesome.
And what's one thing you wishwriters would stop doing?
SPEAKER_01 (26:52):
Chasing the next shiny object.
SPEAKER_00 (26:56):
Awesome.
And then what about insane plottwist or emotional gut punch?
Which are you reaching forfirst?
SPEAKER_01 (27:04):
Emotional gut punch.
SPEAKER_00 (27:06):
All right.
And describe your coaching stylein three words.
SPEAKER_01 (27:09):
Approachable, teamwork, and structured.
SPEAKER_00 (27:15):
Fantastic.
All right.
And then we are going to endwith Edie's five actionable
tips.
These are going to be tips thatyou're going to share with our
authors that they can do rightnow after this call to just kind
of help elevate their writingcareer.
So what are your five tips thatyou're going to leave us with
today?
SPEAKER_01 (27:37):
Get it on paper because you can't edit a blank
page.
Trust your gut.
Do your research.
Get to know your characters.
and don't be afraid of feedback.
SPEAKER_00 (27:48):
Yes, I think that last point is especially
important for all of us.
Thank you so much, Edie, forjoining my show today.
Yes, we had I had so much funwith you.
And I just appreciate yousharing some of your coaching
advice and for giving us yourfive must have tips.
So if you're interested inlearning more about Edie
Hackett's coaching services orcheck out her latest release,
(28:11):
you can check the show notes forher website and places you can
purchase her books.
Be bold, write smart, and keepturning those pages.
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