EPISODE 12: Jeffrey Steele on Family Influence, Songwriting Triumphs, and the Evolution of Country Music

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
One story that people don't know about.
What hurts the most is that itwas a song I wrote about my dad
after he passed away.
He goes kid, never do it forthe money, and then he gets into
a limo.
I didn't have a title for it,but I made it up.
At the very end I sang that'swhat I'm doing these days.
That'll be the title.
I sang and I said this songsucks.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I'm going to read a quote.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Are we on?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Yeah, we're rolling right now and I'm going to read
a quote from our guest tonight.
This is his answer.
No, I did actually see thevideo first sent to me by my
friend at Breitbart News.
All I can say Neil is MFeffing.
Waylon Jennings M-effer,m-effing.
Johnny Cash M-effer.

(00:48):
They would have cut this songin two seconds.
Merle Haggard would have cutthe song.
The funny thing is it's notracist at all, it just messes up
their narrative.
That was a quote, a text I gotfrom one of about five people
that responded to Try that in aSmall Town when it came out.
Our guest tonight, the one andonly Jeffrey Steele.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah, the man, here he is, I remember that.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
I remember that I love that and I was so lit up.
I was so lit up when I firstheard it and the first thing I
did.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
What did I say to you ?
I?

Speaker 1 (01:25):
said.
I said I got to get Kelly'snumber.
Give me Kelly's number.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
I don't have it.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
And I got to start shooting texts off here and and
everybody I knew I started, Isaid have you heard this song?
Have you heard this song?
And it's well, you know me likelike.
This is something that's as Ilook around.
I'm a product of early 70sCalifornia Ronald Reagan
governor.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
You're supposed to be a lib, I'm supposed to be a lib
.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
I grew up right in the middle of it and my dad was
a machinist.
He was a metal cutter.
That's where my name comes from, steele.
It's not my real name, it's afake name, but it's in honor of
my dad.
And I just remember when my dad, it was a small sweatshop,
there were three or four guysworking in it One was me, one
was my brother and a coupleother guys, and when Carter was

(02:16):
the president, we nearly wentout of business, and so that was
my first foray into politicsand what governments and you
know agendas do to the commonman.
So so all that for flashforward 500 years to now and
hearing that song.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
It just, it just is like yeah, but you led the way,
you led the way with aaron lewis, you rocked the boat first.
Yeah, we tipped it the otherway, but but you rocked it first
.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
Well, yeah, and like Neil was saying, like for me, I
think I got maybe two texts fromclose friends and Jeffrey we've
known each other forever buthaven't written, hadn't been in
the same circles and everything.
But I got to get a text fromJeffrey Steele, a legend and
having hits when I came to town,we're very close to to same age
and everything.

(03:06):
And he says uh, says hey,kelly's Jeffrey, still got your
number from Neil.
I just had to text you and saywhat a great mother.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Oh, he threw that word around a lot that day yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
He goes, he goes he goes he goes, love it, he goes,
he goes.
Johnny Cash, merle Haggard,waylon Jennings, it's all I got
to say, you know.
And then he goes to the nextone.
I give him a lot of love back,you know, and he says man
appreciate that Haggard wouldcut it and I would put it up
there with Ogie from Muskogee.
Fight inside of me and the goodtimes are really over for good.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
And that was from.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Jeffrey Steele, you're walking on the fight
inside of me.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
I didn't care where the text I got from you, so
thank you in person for sendingthat to give me a jolt.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
I'm just telling you the truth.
I mean, it just shook me when Iheard it.
It just shook me.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Your song did the same to me.
Well, thanks.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
I'm telling you, you know I've been kind of going
down that road well ever sincethe beginning of my career.
Really, my first song wasduring the gulf war in 91.
I I had a song with a groupcalled boy howdy, called uh,
when johnny comes marching homeagain, that was actually our
first single.
I wrote during that conflict um, I kind of rewrote the

(04:16):
traditional old you know songand um started, get started to
get airplane.
That's how I got a record dealand that's kind of what brought
me to Nashville back in the late80s, early 90s with that band.
Of course they released thesong and the war ended like
three days later.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
Dang it, the war ended.
Babe, we're not going to beable to pay for our rent next
month, because the war ended.
The timing was terrible, butonce again that's kind of how.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
I got started, just the timing was terrible, but
once again.
But you know, that's kind of howI got started and you know,
just like me, we've been writingthe same themes for our whole
career.
My dad was a paratrooper WorldWar II and he left a huge
impression on me and it's athread in all of my songs.
And so when people in theindustry were saying, jeff,

(05:04):
what's up Like, what are you soangry about?
You know you're cussing in that, am I the only one song?
I said well, that's mostlyAaron.
But I said it's the same songI've been writing for 40 years.
Yeah Right.
I mean it's a little edgier andthe times make it a little
edgier, but it's the same song,oh definitely yeah, so I don't

(05:27):
know You're talking about movingthe needle.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
That sucker, that needle was down here rusting.
It was Nobody was cutting thatstuff, and that needle was just
sitting down here waiting andy'all did it.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
It was like and then Al Dean had the balls to put it
out and it was just like here wego, which was so cool.
And you know, we got to thebridge of the song.
Am I the Only One?
And the line is am I the onlyone who quit singing along?
Every time they play aSpringsteen song and Aaron goes,
man, I can't sing this.

(05:58):
It was perfect.
I said, if you back out now,man, because the whole time we
were writing it the whole timewe were writing it.
He's like man, man, my fans aregonna freak out.
This is exactly what they wantto hear.
Oh my god, you know.
And so we got to that line.
He's got.
I don't know if I could singthat.
I said up too late man.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
You already committed .

Speaker 1 (06:15):
You have to talk him into singing that line, um, and
even the song.
He at first he was uh, andunderstandably, you know,
everybody's got buses rollingdown the road and they've got
employees and they've got trucks, and you get it because the
narrative is so strong.
But I just kept saying and Iwrote you know Ira Dean was in
on that with us too and I kepttelling Ira, because Ira was out

(06:38):
there opening his shows I said,man, just keep letting him know
he's going to be the first one,he's going to be the first one,
he's going to be the first one,he's going to be the first one,
he's going to be the first onethat ever did it.
Just keep telling them that,keep telling them that, oh yeah,
and so finally he goes.
I'm putting it out, I'm puttingit out, and of course you know
he was, he's on, you know, withBorchetta over at you know.

(06:59):
I'm sorry, we didn't know ifthey were going to put let them
put it out or not.
But but you know, cooler headsprevailed.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
So I would love to know how that went down with the
label.
Well, it's tough.

Speaker 5 (07:11):
We, we talked about it, we talked about this a lot.
You know, writing it is fun,and it's one thing to write it
and it's another thing in thisclimate and with with the labels
that generally are so left.
They all are um, to have thestones to to put it out and
that's and that's like you know,aaron and aldine, like those

(07:31):
guys, that's where you separateit.
And now a bunch of artists wishthey'd yeah, oh yeah, a lot of
them are thinking it andeverybody wants to jump on the
bandwagon after but you're right, though.
When you we talked about thislast week when you're dealing
with employees and you'rerolling a tour down the road,
it's a tough thing that you'regoing to take some hits.

(07:54):
Yeah, and kudos to those guys.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, I agree, it is a game changer.
If you put it out there Takesthe right one to yeah.

Speaker 5 (08:04):
Do it.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
And then you start thinking about why are we at
that place anyway?
I know.
In country music.
I mean In country music.

Speaker 4 (08:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
We've had that discussion a lot it's like the
demographic.

Speaker 4 (08:17):
You would think that you're just speaking to your
people, right, yeah?
But everybody seems to beafraid, and we've talked about
this a lot.
It's like how do these artistsnot get that this?
These are the people that youshould be saying this to and be
excited to spread that messageto, exactly, and I agree back up
a little bit because this isfascinating to me.

(08:37):
You're from, like, la burbank,right.
So from what know, you startedcutting your teeth on the strip,
sunset Strip, there and at thattime, I mean that's where
everybody wanted to be.
I mean, you had bands, I'm surelike Van Halen, coming through
that time.
That's where all these big rockbands were making their mark.
You were a part of that scene,you were down there, and yet you

(09:01):
kind of veered and chose themore country and you know, with,
yeah, it's it's.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
It's a hilarious story, I you know, I tell it all
the time.
But, um, yeah, that era, uh andmy brother.
I have two older brothers uh,once passed away now, but my
oldest brother grew up in theright in the middle of the 60s
and he was a guitar player, soit was all just falling on me
here.
I was in the middle of the bestplace you could really be in
the music scene in that era.
One hundred percent, yeah, andmy dad would take me to this

(09:29):
talent show at a club called thePalomino, which was the only
country gig in town, if you werea national act.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
In Hollywood, right yeah it was North Hollywood, but
that was your stop.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
And it was just a.
It was a seedy club and theyhad a talent show there and my
dad would take me down becausehis machine shop was right
around the corner.
I'd go down on Thursday nightand I'd I'd win.
I'd win the talent show and geta hundred bucks.
After the third time I won,they they started giving me a
hamburger.
So my dad wouldn't take methere he goes
we're going to find another barto take you to.
But as I got older, I'm playingon the strip and I got a kimono

(10:03):
on and a top hat and blackshoes, spandex pants, Please
tell me there's pictures.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
There's pictures, we got to get those.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
It's horrifying, but I don't know if the 90s pictures
are worse with the, but so I'mplaying in these cover bands and
we were opening like the sameplace as Van Halen was playing
like Guzzari's on the strip inthe Ice House in Pasadena, like
mid-late 70s and just beforetheir record came out.

(10:30):
I'll just never forget seeingthem and seeing Eddie would take
a solo and he'd stomp his boxes.

Speaker 4 (10:39):
He turned around.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
He turned around, so nobody could see what he was
doing Right.

Speaker 4 (10:42):
See some during that game he didn't want anybody to
see what was going on.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
He was doing that thing, the finger tap thing, I
mean that was unheard of backthen.
Yeah, and so I was in that.
I got so many crazy stories.
But like I saw the police whenthey first came to Hollywood
they were in a brown van, that'samazing, you're talking tully's
language now, yeah, well, Imean, I mean, I mean the next
day

Speaker 3 (11:06):
I had a three-piece a reggae band.
I was in a three-piece yeah,you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Like I, was so taken in.
Uh, we follow.
There's a place called barney'sbeanery it's like a, it's like
a, it's like a high class, Iguess, or a uptown version of
denny's off of the sunsetripwhere all the musicians would go
after gigs like late at night.
So you know, we were like all17, 18 years old, and so we
followed them over.
We followed them over toBarney's.

Speaker 4 (11:32):
Beanery, you know.
But that's so interesting to mebecause, like I said, you're,
you're entrenched in that sceneand it's so, you know.
Like you said it, it made youwant to start a reggae band.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
So it was so overwhelming the music it was
everywhere.
You see the eagles, you seeronstadt.
If you were the palomino like Iplayed the house band there for
about seven years with buddymiller and billy block and
carrie park, who was in my band,boy howdy and um, all kinds of
amazing musicians would come inthere on a given night, whether
it was eddie van halen or RodneyCrowell or Mick Fleetwood.

(12:04):
They would just come and sit inor or what's his name.
I remember the, what was theother rockabilly band, stray
Cats.

Speaker 4 (12:13):
Brian Setzer.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Brian Setzer would come in and play, cause it was a
real kind of rockabilly nightsort of thing.
But so all of that was evolvingaround me and my dad was just
beating me over the head tolisten to country and listen to
merle haggard, and I was justinto all this rock and roll and
um.
And then this moment came, likein the 80s, where you know it
was, I was hanging around guyslike brett michaels and duff

(12:36):
mckay oh my god, those guys, youknow yeah all those bands they
were.
They were kids and they werekids and and I I stumbled on
with some musician friends tothis alternative kind of music
scene out there with DwightYoakam and Los Lobos.

Speaker 5 (12:53):
Yeah, I was going to ask you about that.
Did that Bakersfield thing withDwight and Buck did you run
into?

Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, it sealed.

Speaker 5 (13:01):
The deal Was Pete.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Anderson Pete was in a blues band and then he joined
Dwight.

Speaker 5 (13:07):
That was some of my favorites.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
It was an amazing era out there.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Is that what sparked your interest to think about
moving to Nashville?

Speaker 1 (13:14):
No, I mean, I was just out there and it was a
really valid country music sceneBecause, you know, like you had
Dwight out there, some Rootsbands like Los Lobos and other
bands, and Lucinda was out there.

Speaker 4 (13:25):
Was Lucinda there at the time?
Yeah, okay, and Buddy Millerwas out there.
We were in bands together andit was just an amazing scene.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
So the crazy thing was I did a barn dance, which is
this house band thing.
I played in at the Palomino inthe house band and Tony Brown
came in one night with PattiLoveless and we were like the
opening act for her showcase.
So he heard a song of mine, heheard the song of mine and he
and he took the palomino, hadthis really weird backstage.

(13:55):
It was nowhere near the stageand he had like everybody hated
playing there because martyrobbins even cut a door in the
back of the club so he could getout.
It was called the Marty Robbinsdoor, but anyway.
So I was in the back and wejust finished the set and Patty
was getting to go up and youknow little.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
Tony came back and he's like he's like hey, what's
your name?

Speaker 1 (14:17):
I said Jeffrey Steele .
He goes what's that third songyou played?
And I told him the title wasFool.
We're fools are Kings.
And he goes I'm going to cutthat song.
And I didn't know what thatword meant.

Speaker 5 (14:27):
I didn't know what cut meant what are you talking
about?

Speaker 3 (14:34):
You can cut it out.
That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
And then he he ended up.
He said he was going to cut iton Patty.
And that was my first lie inthe music business that I was
told.
He ended up cutting it on SteveWarner, which is still a great
cut, yeah, but that's whatbrought me back the first time
in 87 to Nashville to showcase,or 88.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
So that was the Boy Howdy evolution.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, it was pre-Boy Howdy, okay, but I was in Boy
Howdy like I played in all thesecover bands trying to make 50
bucks yeah you guys know you'relike bands and I was playing in
like eight different bands.
Boy, howdy was one of them,okay right and um, that was just
a project that I'd done and and, uh, and and written the song
and then tony heard it, and sothat I went back and did a

(15:21):
showcase in 88 and they chasedme out of here.

Speaker 5 (15:26):
Tail between my legs.
Well, they tried that for ustoo.
What's that?

Speaker 1 (15:30):
flat semicore doing in here.
I thought it was cool.

Speaker 5 (15:35):
What a great scene, though, because I always loved
that Dwight Yoakam stuff.
That was an amazing time.
Those records had such a soundto them.
Where is that going?
Where are those records that?

Speaker 2 (15:44):
had such a sound to them.
Yeah, where is that going?
It's, it's.
Where are those?

Speaker 5 (15:48):
artists back.
He's still out doing it.
Where's john?
Where's?

Speaker 2 (15:51):
where's dwight yokum and john anderson?
You know he's doing it.

Speaker 5 (15:55):
Well, they're still out there.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
No, I'm not talking about them literally.
I'm talking about the nextgeneration of those guys, the,
the unique people you know well,you know well.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
you just got to hope they're coming and I, you know.
I think there, I think it's it'sjust.
I always tell people too thatyou know it's.
It's so generational, like likeyou know the times that when we
came up and we came to town andthe stuff that we grew up on
and how that kind of reallyinfluenced the sound of the
music and the, and then thegenerations go by, you know,
even five to ten years and thenext group of songwriters come

(16:27):
up that have been influenced byten years later music, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
It just keeps kind of evolving.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
You see it now it's very you know rap and you know
metal, kind of pop, metalinfluence now.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
And some of it's really really good and some of
it's really really bad, but alot of it's really really good
and some of it's really reallybad, but a lot of it's really
really good.
I'm a fan.
I've learned how to evolve overthe years a tick.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
But getting to like.
When you think of like Jason orAaron, there's only a handful
of guys, but when you bring thatup to me, it's like I think
about the Cashes and theHaggards and Waylon and even
Chris, and even those guys thatwere more on the liberal side of
politics.

(17:11):
They had a thought in theirhead.
They had a clear thought aboutwhat they believed in Like now
there's no clear thought and Imean, there's really not.
I wish somebody would sit medown and convert me, yeah you
know, it's fair I know, I knowexactly what you're saying
explain it, explain this visionof of the new world to me.

(17:34):
Explain it to me and I'll jumpon if it really look.
But I I not yet met anybody whocan get past um trump bad right
.
I know me either whether you'refor him or um Trump.

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Bad Right, I know Me either, Whether you're for him
or not.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
I mean right Trump bad Well you've got to have a
little more than that I knowthat's the problem.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
Though that's the problem.
It's like we talk about it alot.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Are we getting political?
I love it.
This is bad-ass Well.

Speaker 5 (17:59):
I don't what's my family going to be?
Is my family going to be safer?
Are we going to do betterfinancially?
Yeah, and I think people likeyou may not like Trump you know
a lot of people hate him,whatever but is your family
better off?

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Are you safer?

Speaker 5 (18:20):
Like vote for the policy that you're not going to
be friends with the presidentanyway.
Like like who's what's going tobenefit you the most?
You're in safety and theeconomy and can you go afford
dinner to take your family out.
So I think that hopefullypeople vote that way.
Like well, I think I was betteroff before.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Yeah, and and and if you look at economies, I mean if
people have money in theirpocket that they can save or
spend as they so desire, theeconomy flourishes.
Yeah, it's pretty simple.

Speaker 5 (18:53):
It's just that simple it really is.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
It's just that simple .
And if you think about it too,like we're being taxed on
working, we're being taxed onbuying things, selling things,
owning things, dying, being bornI mean it's pretty crazy.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
It's pretty crazy when you look at that whole
picture.
Yeah.
And two, you spend more whenyou feel safe.
So if you have more money inyour pocket and you feel safe,
then you spend more.
The economy just goes in acircle and it just feels less
safe nowadays.
It just does just because ofwhat's happening.
Absolutely Not to get on thatwhole thing, you know currently

(19:31):
we've only got what three hours.
But also, I'm sorry, no, goahead.
You guys are in trouble for the, for the listeners, for the
listeners out there, when you,when you talked about a cut, and
sometimes we'll get a, you knowan email or something that says
, hey, y'all mentioned this,it's a music business term, so
what jeffrey was referring togetting a cut or his song was
going to get cut that's backwhen it was vinyl and the
records and there was a cut.
You know an actual groove yeah,you got your song in the vinyl

(19:53):
and that's on a record.
That's just called a cut, andeven you know now, now we don't
even have cds, but we still callthem cut.
Hey, you got a cut today we gota stream we got a stream.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
We got a stream or when we say, or when we say work
tape, we're making a work.
Those words will never come outof my mouth, ever yeah, you got
a stream.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Hey, we got a stream today.
I had a publisher one time tellme hey, man, you had a hundred
thousand streams this week andI'm like they were celebrating.
I'm going, let me see, I made23 this week.
Thanks a lot.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Thanks for letting me know you made 23.
That's a lot of times.
Somebody knows that math and Iforget what it is.

Speaker 4 (20:30):
However many streams equal a dollar, but I try not to
remember it.

Speaker 5 (20:33):
I know we don't, we don't need to.
Yeah, I try not to you weregonna say so it's a scary time
to be a songwriter.

Speaker 3 (20:38):
It really is it really?
Is I mean?

Speaker 1 (20:40):
I mean we, we came up in a golden era, uh, the last
of the physical sales andownership.
I mean, now you're just goingto get subscriptions and you're
not going to own anything.
If you don't pay your monthlysubscription, you don't get your
music anymore.
No, so you don't get to own it,you don't get to hold it, and
and I think I and I know I'mnostalgic to that because I'm
older, but we were very I missedthat.

(21:01):
Yeah, we were at a good, goodspot at the.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
It was a tail end of all of it.
Really, yeah, and when youexplain it to the new writers in
town, the new young guys thatcome to town, and you explain to
them the mechanicals that wemade back in the early 2000s the
first you know decade and ahalf of the 2000s you tell them
about the money we made onmechanicals.
They're, they're blown awaythey're like what you didn't

(21:24):
need to have a single.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
They had that look in their eye like didn't yeah you
didn't.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
And they had that look in their eye like I've got
to go back home.
This isn't going to work out.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
I mean really.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
I mean, when they start doing the math on today's
streaming numbers, it scaresthem to death.
And I'm like, I'm with you.
I'm like, why would you movethe town to want to write songs
for a living today?
I mean, you would have to bethe luckiest.
It like winning the lottery.
Yeah, if you're on, you know,yeah that's what we go to.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
A lot is a lottery.
It's because, like every songyou write, it's you're buying a
lottery ticket and like, like toyour point if you don't have a
single, you're not making money.
No, and it's just.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
It's a tough business yeah, do you guys think it
dilutes the, the overall musicand, oh yeah, and the genre?
Because you have to fit it intothat smaller box now to get the
single.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
We talked about it before.
You have songs that were hugehits back in the day.
We have songs that were hugehits back in the day that
wouldn't get cut.
Today it just wouldn't.
There Goes my Life, forinstance.
We talked about that it wouldnot get cut.
I couldn't get that song,couldn't get arrested with that
song.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
You think so I don't know.
I know you always say that.

Speaker 2 (22:36):
No, it would not get cut.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
I'd hate to believe that.
I would still love to write oneof those.
You could I agree with you.

Speaker 5 (22:43):
I think the listener and this is going to sound
negative, and maybe it is, maybeit isn't.
You know social media andtiktok and all it's.
It's.
There's so many new artists andso many songs.
I think the listeners diluted alittle bit to listening to the
actual.
Yeah, it's sad, but I do thinkthat that's a thing that to get,

(23:04):
even get through a song.
You know, and you're rightpeople want to hear jingles.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
I feel right we I guarantee you, everybody at this
table has been a part of a songthat has been one of the best
songs that we've ever been apart of last I mean 20 years and
they're still sitting there.
We pitched them to everybody.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
They're still sitting there, yeah, I think a lot of
it too, like nowadays, it'sbecause there's so much media
and stuff thrown at you andyou've got kids in the back seat
and you're trying to reach backand get them to hey, we're
going to have a wreck, be quiet.
You don't have time or themental awareness or the time to
really think about a three and ahalf minute song that unfolds

(23:45):
at the last 30 seconds of thesong to get the whole thing.
So you almost need to get thewhole thing in that first verse
or chorus, or you just miss it,you know it's weird we've had
these conversations in a right.

Speaker 5 (23:56):
It's like you can't save that you better do it
because you can't save it forthe end another thing that is
interesting to all of us sittinghere we all came up the same
way like playing clubs.
Yeah, how many club shows havewe played?

(24:17):
You can't count them.
When you're growing up, you'replaying bars, you're playing
clubs.
The new artists today aren'tcoming up that way.
They're going viral forsomething on TikTok or a they're
, and then going from there tothe label, the tour, yeah, and
they're missing 20 years, ohyeah yeah, 15, 20 years of smoky

(24:38):
bars, five sets a night, andmeeting people, meeting people
honing, learning how to do it.
Yeah, and it's.
There's a huge disconnect withthe way that it used to be
becoming an artist and, and,like Kurt said, honing your
craft.
That part of it's gone.
It's, it's gone and you, it'scrazy to see it happen in real

(24:59):
time.

Speaker 1 (25:01):
You know, I was playing in bars where you were
at that time.
You were playing Skinnered andthe Stones and you're playing
Haggard and Hank Jr and it wasalso becoming my music, because
I was.
I was seeing the crowd and howthey were reacting to what I was
singing.
You know like, okay, theyreally seem to.
You know, like you're doingresearch without really knowing
you're doing research.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
So you're out there looking every night playing five
hours a night, you know nine totwo and how to perform and how
to make that work.

Speaker 5 (25:28):
It's there's a definite decline, which I's.
There's a definite decline,that which which I think there's
a reason why we still, whilewe're still relevant and why you
know, urban still out therekicking ass and and blake and
tim church and church becausethey their season.
There's years of work.
Yeah, I went into it.
Yeah, and Are we sounding?

Speaker 2 (25:50):
like bitter.
No, I know we're not, but it'sjust a new way.
I would say lucky, not bitter.

Speaker 5 (25:57):
I'm glad I'm not moving here now.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, absolutely, we were talking about that.
Much harder time to navigateWould never go down the song and
I would never trade a bar gigin from 14 to 20, 21.

Speaker 5 (26:11):
I would never trade one of those five setters in
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(26:33):
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Speaker 1 (26:45):
Freedom is worth drinking too.
You guys know that story I tellabout.
Um spoke at Belmont one timefor all the songwriting class.
I'm an alumni, yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
But that was a weird thing to be doing.
You went to college.
What a loser.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
But like, wait a minute, you can become, you can
take, you can get a degree.
I know I had no idea, it wasreally freaky to me, but they
asked me to come and speak and Iwas sitting there and I was
just being honest and some youngkid said you know what kind of
advice, what's the best adviceyou can give a young songwriter?
And I said, man, I would dropout and get a bottle of alcohol

(27:24):
and go get a club gig and get abanning.
Oh my God.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
And I never went back to speak again.
I don't know why they neverasked me back, but you spoke the
truth.
You did say that that'sfantastic.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
On the other side of that.
30 years, maybe 25 years,whatever before in LA I was in
the house band.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
I was playing the Palomino.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
I've told this story a whole bunch, but I was playing
the Palomino in the house bandand Christofferson came in.
Oh, my God the house band andand christopherson came in.
Oh, my god, and you know my dadand I, and my dad was like
that's the guy you know, as Iwas, I was, you know now as a
country guy, you know it's early20s and I was just rocking it
out in all the country bars andanyway, there there was chris,

(28:02):
and so I mean I gotta ask himsomething.
I got, I got I gotta ask himsomething.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
To the alley behind the bars in North Hollywood.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
It's like the seediest part of town, it's like
the worst part of town, andhe's literally in the alley
getting into a limo with twohookers and he's holding a
bottle, a big, big, giant bottleof.
Jack, he's got two girls kindof propping him up and I'm like
Chris, chris.

Speaker 5 (28:29):
Drag it in Chris.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
I'm like Chris and his driver's kind Chris, chris,
Chris, chris, chris, chris,chris, chris, chris and his
driver's kind of waiting, gotthe hat on and everything, and,
and, and it's like a seedy backalley, trash cans and the cats
running around.
You know, I'm like, I'm likeChris, I I need, I'm Jeff Steele
, I'm a songwriter, Like I needto hear you, what, what can you
tell me?
What do I need to do?

(28:52):
What do I need to do, sir?
And he and he's like he'sliterally doing this.
He's just doing the rock backand forth.
You know, like girls areholding him up.
You know, and he's looking atme, his eyes are just crossing
back and forth.
He goes, he goes, kid, never doit for the money.
And then he gets into a limowith two girls it's an amazing
story.

(29:12):
And then years later, 20 someyears later, I get the
songwriter of the year thing.
And who are they honoring asthe icon?
Chris Christopherson, did heremember?
Well, I went right up to him,chris.
Chris.

Speaker 5 (29:26):
It's me.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Palomino the bar.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
Remember the bar, he didn't remember.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
He's like like buddy, I have no clue who you are.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
I love that, or why you're here.
He didn't remember, last nightmuch less.

Speaker 4 (29:40):
But at the heart of it.
It's great advice.
Even though the irony wasdripping, it is great advice.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
And I told him.
I said you told you gave mesome advice.
And he said what did I tell you?
I said you told me you'd neverdo it for the money.
And he just he looks at me.

Speaker 3 (29:56):
Bah.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
And then he got real serious and he goes did you do
it for the money?
I said no, sir.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
And he goes bah, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
No, that's awesome, but that's kind of our gig and
what a cool thing to look backon, right.
But I just feel like the kidslike they're going straight to
GarageBand or they're creativelylike it's all out there.
It's all out there for them,but it is a different world now
that they're coming up in andI'm sure they're going to figure
it out and it's going to begreat somehow.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, and it may be all relative, like you were
talking about, like you knowwhere, where the Dwight Yoakams
and things like that.
It's just a time period ofwhere we grew up and where we
were and our memories attached.
It'd be the same, you know, 20years from now people might say,
hey, where's you know, wish wehad had another.
You know Aldean, or you knowthe current like right now be
the same thing and and kind ofthe point of of the, the people

(30:50):
coming up through social mediaand we're saying, man, I
wouldn't want to be a songwriter, wouldn't want to be breaking
in right now.
My first thought is to agreewith that.
How hard it is.
But I feel like god wired useverybody in such a way to go
after something.
He gives you some sort of giftand I bet we were just coming up
.
We too would find a way to gethere and try it in in whatever
capacity it's a great point andthere's, almost there's almost

(31:13):
more opportunity now with thesocial media also.
Yeah, that we don't have to goknock on a publisher's door, you
know, and get kicked out, youknow there's other ways in.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
So I don't know, maybe, like I said, it's
generational.
It's generational and eachgeneration has their own thing
and the music they grew up on.
But but great point, I meanit's well.

Speaker 4 (31:31):
So, jeffrey, I'm sorry, Tali, I was going to ask.
You know you're talking aboutthe California days and the boy
howdy days.
So what was the transition fromyou being the artist to moving
to Nashville to be a writer?
Or did you not knowingly, like,conscientiously, think that?

Speaker 2 (31:50):
No, it's, it's.
Don't leave anything out.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
I want to know.
It's a crazy story.
It's always a crazy story to me, but I was in so 94-5, bam
broke up and it was aninevitable thing that was going
to happen.
It was, and we all knew it wasgoing to happen.
I won't get into that story,but that's a pretty funny story

(32:13):
too.
A rainy night in Alabama,birmingham.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
My hometown At the fair.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
We were playing the fair.
Anyway, the band broke up so Ihad gotten a solo deal on Curb
Records and I'd come off theroad you know you think of I'd
come off the road, you know.
You know you're doing 200 showsa year.
You're at the radio stationevery morning, you're out every

(32:44):
night just you know being crazyand getting up at 6 am to go get
the ad and eat the pizza.
God, I'm getting anxieties,yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:48):
Yeah right, I'm feeling it.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
And I was really starting to have some really bad
voice problems.
I was having really serious um,like I normally.
Uh, oh, I just I couldn't hitan f sharp, which is pretty low
for me in in the in the rangeyou know and, and so I went to
get my voice check.
They said, uh, it's not lookinggood.
And it was.
That era was when everybody wasgetting the surgery.

(33:15):
It was the new hot thing to do,like, oh yeah, I get the vocal
surgery and blah, blah blah.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Wait a minute.
I didn't do that.
What are you talking about?
Is it too late?

Speaker 1 (33:25):
But I remember everybody was talking oh yeah,
I'm going to get it.
I think somebody had gotten it.
I think somebody had gotten it.
Was it Patty Loveless or FaithHill or somebody got it and it
started to be a trend inNashville oh yeah, you just have
to be quiet.
For six weeks and I was like man, if something's not wrong with
me, I don't want to go in thereand I don't want you guys going
in there.
And I said, is there some otherthing I can do?

(33:48):
And luckily, this gal that wasthe um, the head of the
department, the, the um at whatdo they call it?
The auto learn laryngology,whatever that was.
Yeah, dr Ossoff Ossoff.
So she was Kim Kishore, she wasworking under him, and so she,
she recommended this guy um, tomMcDonald, dr Tom McDonald, and

(34:09):
he was a musician, but he wasone of the surgeons.
And Tom McDonald, dr TomMcDonald, and he was a musician,
but he was one of the surgeons.
And so she recommended me gosee him.
And so I went to see him.
And he goes, he goes.
I went to see him at like sevenin the morning.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
He goes all right, sing your, sing your hit, Sing
your hit.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Which, at the time, she'd give anything.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
She didn't get you know.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
And I could not hit that note.
I couldn't hit the high note atthe end of the thing, the
bridge, and let alone getthrough the song that early in
the morning.
I said man, I can't sing.
He goes, you should be able tosing anytime, right when you get
out of bed.
You should be just able to sing.
I said, well, I can't do that.
I said there's no way it's goingto crack all over the place.

(34:45):
Well, he goes, just do it andlet me hear what you do.
And so I did it.
My voice started cracking andand he immediately said he said,
matter of factly, like you'resinging from your throat, air
out of your throat.
Fine, huh, I never took alesson.
You know, I'm, you know, andand so he, he made me this deal.

(35:07):
He goes, I can help you, butyou're gonna have to get off the
road for a while and um, youknow, as our money makers right.
John rich had just quit lonestar and offered me the gig as
the bass player.
Oh wow really yeah he.
Lone Star.
He's a bass player and I havefour kids, you know and.
I'm like, you know, I'm hangingby a thread on a record deal and

(35:29):
hanging by a thread on apublisher deal and what am I
going to do?
You know, I'm like, wow, it'sfive grand a week.
Five grand a week, man.
And I was thinking about it andthen when he told me he goes,
I'm going to need you to takelike 18 months to two years off
and not sing, and I'm going tohelp you retrain and get the air
out of your.
We're going to get the air fromhere to here.

(35:49):
You're not going to believewhat's going to happen.
And no surgery, no surgery.
So I just prayed about it.
Talk about a blessing, talkabout oh yeah, so I had to make
money and I had to get good atsongwriting.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Oh, my God, I had to really jump in the box and
figure out what I was doing,because I know the time that
y'all quit, that Boy Howdy cameoff the road.
Y'all were done.
That was 96.
And then you started havinghits and that was the same time
I started that was right when Imet you.
I think yes hits and that wasthe same time I started.
That was right when I met you,I think.

(36:23):
Yes, because I came off theroad.
Yeah, we did a record, yeah,and did another record.
I was.
I was like, and we were writingsongs and our songs were
getting cut by other artists.
At the time we were like, andthen, like 99 came around and
made a decision to come off theroad and start writing songs.
And then you and I wrote alittle bit and then we didn't,
and then you started getting,you and I both started getting

(36:44):
Rascal Flatts cuts, yep, and Iused to call you Jeffrey Stoll.
I was like I was like I waslike Jeffrey.
Stoll my son of a bitch.
Jeffrey Stoll another singlefor me.
I thought I was going to getthe next, next rascal flat
single and he gets my wish andthen you get a fluke.

(37:05):
No, it was great it was fun.
It was a great time it was agreat time it was like what's
the next thing?
What's, hey gary?
What's the next single?
It was like what hurts the most?
I'm like damn it do the dealwow do the deal and it was like
flip-flops.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
We started flip-flops where Steve Robson, my
co-writer, was from London.

Speaker 4 (37:23):
Okay, so this is what hurts the most, right?
Yeah, and my Wish and theseDays.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Okay, tell the story.
These Days was our first numberone.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
I think, yeah, and these Days was a song.
It's crazy stories.
There's stuff we've got to gothrough.
Right call from my publisherone day that, um, he, he's got
this guy in town from london.
He's a and he's a track guy.
If it's 1998, 99, what is atrack guy?
Right, like what he's a, whathe's a.

(37:50):
He like he composes these andhe wants part of the song.
What?
yeah, yeah, we used to say thatand, and he's from london, he's
a producer, he's got all thesepeople he's working with and
he's over here working with somewriters.
He had started this song withDanny Wells and they didn't
finish it.
And so he said, well, you takea crack at finishing the song.
And I said, man, I don't know,I don't want to get on the back

(38:13):
end of somebody's song and youwant to go somewhere else, and
it's over here, and you're goingover here, over here, and
you're going over here and it's.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
It's not good right.
It's going to be a turd, andand and so I called it was
markling was my publisher, youremember.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
And and I said steve, I said, uh, I said send me,
just send me the music.
I don't want to hear the melodyor the whatever they wrote,
just send me steve's music.
So I'd never met steve, evermet him ever.
And uh, they sent me the music.
I had my little studio in myhouse at the time, um little
room in my house, and I satthere and listened to his track,

(38:47):
which was really well done,like really well done, and and
just started writing aboutgrowing up in southern
california and playing bands andmeeting my wife.
You know the whole journey andand um, didn't have a title.
I've, you know, I've told these, I tell these stories all the
time, but I didn't have a titlefor it.
But I made it up at the veryend.
I sang that's what I'm doingthese days.

(39:09):
I did, you know, go to bed,that's what I'm doing.
Yeah, it'll be the title.
I sang and I said this songsucks.
And, honestly, god, neil.
And then he, ste, steve, callsme back and says they cut it.
I said who cut it?
This group called Rascal Flatscut your song and that started
my journey.
I would go to London and writewith Steve for stuff that he was

(39:31):
producing, and it was neverintended to be pitched to Flats,
it was for stuff that he wasdoing over there.
And then we brought a coupleback.
Dan Huff heard them and he'slike, oh my god, I can get this
on.
Gary would sing the crap out ofit so it wasn't what hurts the
most.

Speaker 4 (39:47):
Didn't that go to some other?

Speaker 1 (39:49):
people first oh yeah, faith hill got it and mark
wills actually cut it.
Oh, is that?
Right it out?
Stephen tyler got it and saidit was the most depressing song
he ever heard.
By the way, he came to.
He came to write with me oneday.
You know you've been in mystudio, it's and said it was the
most depressing song he everheard in his life.
By the way, he came to writewith me one day.
You know you've been to mystudio.
This is a house, you know, oldhouse in Nashville, and I was

(40:09):
with James Slater and MartyFredrickson and we're waiting
and there's a doorbell ring andwe look in the camera, the
security camera, and there'slike this little old lady with
this big floppy hat.
We figured it out.
That security cameras like thislittle old lady with this big

(40:30):
floppy hat and slater goes someold lady and it was tyler, it
was steven tyler.

Speaker 5 (40:32):
That's amazing, it was steven tyler oh james, we
love you, buddy some old ladyhere wow, crazy.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
Wow anyway, james does.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
That's how the relationship with with flat
started.
For me, man, it was just crazyand it was not intended, and and
and uh, they somehow ended upcutting those songs and it's
craziest thing ever, so, um whata great time that was.

Speaker 5 (40:54):
I wasn't really pissed.
You wrote one of my favoritesongs uh, cowboy and me.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
No thanks oh this is so good when that came out.

Speaker 5 (41:03):
Talk about the right song with the right artist.
Yeah, I mean even the video tothat thing yeah, I loved it I
was like they did a great job.

Speaker 4 (41:11):
What a great song so was it written for tim, or was
that another song that you guysjust wrote?
That was a.
Thing I.

Speaker 1 (41:16):
I had written, uh, remember I had.
Don't know why I act the way Ido, you know first verse
basically and, and, and it was aday I had a day with craig.
It was me and craig, and, and,um, craig weisman uh, for the
audience out there, who's justone of the most amazing writers,
just great but he, he just, hejust said oh shit, he just

(41:37):
walked out of the room.
He would always walk out of theroom, but then he'd come back
and he'd have the next verse andit was one of these things, and
it was one.
It was early on, when I firstknew craig and it was the
coolest thing.
You know, like when, whenwriters start like they, you can
tell you're, you're gettingsomething going, and they, and
then you just start trying tooutdo each other and you're

(41:57):
throwing darts at each other,and you know what I mean like
it's kind of it's kind of alittle bit of a boxing match,
but it's, but it's, but it's thecoolest thing ever.
Right, and and that's what thatday was and we fought over the
arrangement of that song,whether it should go to a proper
chorus or do the bridge solobridge thing, and it was just if
we had?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
if we had more time, I would do my imitation of craig
I don't have do it now.
No, no, no, I don't have aguitar handy but it's like, oh,
it's amazing, that's a great one, he's amazing, it's a great
song.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
Yeah, but that's you know it's a great day.
It was Big Al Anderson too, andwe wrote it at Big Al's house
that day, I remember, and it wasjust an amazing day and amazing
day and I was just reallystarting to get to know Craig
and it just met Big Al andthat's another guy just talking

(42:48):
about songwriting.
That just for me, was a gamechanger.

Speaker 5 (42:50):
That just you know influenced, changed everything
about what I did, you know, andthat going to McGraw he just
told that thing, yeah, he wasperfect.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
I thought that was.

Speaker 5 (42:56):
It was a perfect good as you get, as far as you're
right it is, yeah it, yeah, itreally was.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
And it's crazy, it's just blessed man, you're playing
that song 20 years later andpeople still sing it.
That's right.
Oh yeah, craig was the onlyother.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
He was like one of five writers.
He was like second afterJeffrey to text me after Try
that in a Small Time.
And Craig, he texted me and hegoes.
I cannot believe you guys wrotethe most bigoted, racist,
divisive song in the history ofcountry music and that was it.
He left it for me.

(43:32):
He left me hanging for likefive minutes and then he goes.
He left me hanging for likefive minutes and then he goes
without me.

Speaker 4 (43:39):
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Like the bubbles were going on the screen.
Man.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
It was so, craig Wiseman, it wasn't even funny.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Well, we've talked about this before and, jeffrey,
being an artist, yourself, andNeil being an artist, you guys
are overqualified to besongwriters, right, and we've
talked about it.
Like you know me and you knowCurt and Tully, we're not
overqualified to be songwriters,right, and we've talked about
it.
Like you know me and you knowCurt and Tully, we're not
overqualified to be songwriters.

Speaker 5 (44:06):
We're rightfully so.
We're failed artists.
We are failed artists.
You're the only one who hasn'tbeen an artist at the?

Speaker 2 (44:11):
table.
The only one that hasn't failedis us.

Speaker 5 (44:13):
That's a good distraction, because that's when
we first met.
I need to fail as an artist.
You're the only one who hasn'tfailed as an artist.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Okay, so I need to cut a little EP.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
That's probably the most awards I have actually is
for failure as an artist.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
I'm going to cut an EP and let it fail.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
Jeffrey, it's been 20 years since we actually were in
the same room together.
We were in a band calledRushlow, and you knew Tim
rushlow.
That's right, right, so he howdid I forget a lot.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
I forget that.
Yeah, I don't know how you canfigure that.
I'm sorry, we'll bring the.

Speaker 5 (44:51):
I'll finish my story in a minute but yeah, you came
out to a show in in clarksvillesomewhere like that.
I think it was close.
And that's when we first met.
I remember very vividly tim hadsaid you were coming and we
were like, oh damn, becauseyou're also a great bass player,
you know, and uh.

(45:14):
So that was cool for me becauseI remember, you know, listening
to boy howdy and everything,and anyway, that's when we first
met.
It was great having you therewas like, wow, you know, this is
maybe we got a shot we did wehad.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
We had one single, I don't know hey, that's, that's
good, though more than you had,more than I had, yeah, but what?
But what I was going to say tothat is is the fact that it
gives you guys, uh, when youhave you know, a few advantages.
Uh, one is the fact that, as anartist, you you know what you
would and wouldn't say.
You also get to know otherartists really quick and what
they would and wouldn't say, andand the fact that they're fans

(45:50):
of your voice, you know.
So when they hear JeffreySteele you know vocal on a song,
they hear the first line, orthey hear Neil Thrasher or Brett
James, hillary, hillary,lindsay there's so many in town
that are artists that are havinghuge success as songwriters.
It just gives a huge benefit.
And some of the artists, Ithink they love the writing but
they also just oh man, I lovethat vocal.

(46:11):
And sometimes in the reverseyou could have a great song and
the wrong person sing it andthey can be a good singer.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
But for whatever reason the artist, it could be
line two and they say who isthat?
Is that?
Is that so-and-so?
I hate his voice and I'm likeoh yeah, but just listen, well,
that is true, I promise, andthey and they've stopped, they
stopped listening it is true.
But, like with neil and jeffreyin particular, they both know
somehow they put themselves inthis moment in time in that song
and I think when a jason orrascal platts or anybody tim
mcgrath hears that, they're likedang, I want to.

(46:49):
I want to give that emotion off.
I that speaks to me and the wayyou deliver that song through
the vocal and through themessage that's, it's priceless,
yeah there's, no, there's no.

Speaker 5 (47:00):
I mean, we talk about this all the time like two guys
like yourself, and when you cansell a song like that, like
it's, it's, I don't know if youguys realize how valuable it is.

Speaker 4 (47:12):
Yeah, because the words are one, because you can,
you can write.

Speaker 5 (47:15):
We've had this, we've written songs and like until
that vocal gets there oreverything is there and it's
sold to an artist like an aldineor tim or anybody.
It doesn't have a life and itmight be an inflection in a word
, maybe the smallest melodytweak.
You know that, that that hooks.

Speaker 4 (47:32):
Yeah, and it's the feeling, it's the emotion you
put me and writing songs.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
You tend to forget that a lot of times too.
Like you, you forget thoselittle things.
Yep, another sidebar to asidebar.
Um, one story that people don'tknow like about what hurts the
most is that I was a song Iwrote about my dad after he
passed away.
It was in in his honor, and andthe title that I had that day I

(47:56):
was working on was what meantthe most they were saying yeah,
it was what meant the most.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Did I ever tell you no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
It was what meant the most and Steve had this.
Just you know that track wasamazing, track was pretty much
the record and it was justamazing.
And I just started jumping intowriting it and getting the
lyric going, the melody going,and every time I sang it it just
didn't seem like the chorus wasadding up.
And then when I actually wentin, when we actually got it

(48:24):
finished and I went in to cutthe vocal at the studio at his
place, I messed up and I sangwhat hurts the most.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
Are you serious?
He stopped the tape.
Are you serious?
I swear to.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
God, he stopped the tape and he goes, he goes.
He's like bloke.
You got to get in here, you gotto get in here.
You, Let me give it to me again.
I'll get it, I'll get it.
I know, no, no, no, no, no, getin here Like I just wanted to
fix it because I wanted to getthe part right.
So I reluctantly took theheadphones off and walked in to
the control room and he playedit and I was like what made you

(48:53):
say what hurts the most?

Speaker 3 (48:54):
I don't know it's a God thing, it just came out,
that's a god thing.

Speaker 5 (48:59):
He made you say it and that I don't know absolutely
, I totally agree yeah, otherthan other than it was.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
No, it was from god it, because that was really what
it was.
It wasn't what meant the most,it was what hurt the most was.
You know, I was telling youearlier he he had fired me
because he didn't want me to getcut my fingers off in a machine
shop.
And he'd fired me and I waslike, I'll show you, I'm gonna
join a band and that's what hewanted me to do.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
He knew I wanted to play guitar.
I'll show you.
No man, that is wow.
That's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
I'm going to join a band and travel the country.
Go, go, go.

Speaker 5 (49:29):
Please, he's like kicking me in the ass all the
way out the door.
I love that story.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
But so.
So when that fell out, um myjaw dropped and I was like cause
the core.
You know, it's the over theminor, the minor the six minor
and I was like wow.
And then that was a songwritingmoment where I went wow, the
power of a one word over chordchange.
Yes, you know that's what bigAl told me years ago.

(49:54):
He'd always say he always sayit's not what to what you don't
write.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (50:03):
Like what you leave out and what you don't play.
I've always said that, yeah,amazing, you're right, though
the power that's a great way toput it the power of a word over
Just falling over the chord theway the melody is like it's.
It means so much.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
And hearing it in the room at that moment and better,
but it was an eye-opening thing.
It was a songwriting thing, too, where I was like, wow, now I
see how that works.
I didn't, I just lucked intothat one, that's right, that's
amazing.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
I used to try to write songs, like MacDill used
to write Low gut string, youknow, just with a mic and a gut
string and I'm like, and thenthe industry started changing.

Speaker 5 (50:45):
And it and a gut string and I'm like, and then
the industry started changingand it's like they're not gonna
hear that we got to do a fulldemo and I'm like they're not.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
They're not hearing.
They're not hearing it like heused to do it when Don Williams
and all these, you know allthese artists, these 30 number
ones that MacDill had, becausehe, he did them all with a gut
string guitar and one microphone, real, real, every demo he did.
He never did a demo session.
Macdill never did that and Iwould try to do that.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Didn't you grow up with your?

Speaker 2 (51:08):
whole family singing Tim.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Didn't your whole family sing?

Speaker 2 (51:11):
No, it goes way back.
My dad sang professionallysince he was four years old.
I love that.
That's how you learn to singharmony when you grow up in a
Southern Gospel family.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
That's how you learn to sing harmony when you grow up
in a southern gospel family.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
That's how you, that's how you learn to sing
harmony.
Well, sir.
Well, we had.
And talking about the earlydays, uh, I came across
something just reading, becauseI I know the jeffrey still.
Who is jeffrey still?
Uh, but just kind of going backand learning a little bit about
your story, because it's alwaysinteresting sometimes for
listeners like all right, wherewhere'd you start?
Where was the first uh interestin music?
And for you it was in a church,because you come from musical
family.

(51:46):
Right, your mom sang and yourdad did as well, and and you
sang um in your church, um,three dog night, like, uh, joy
to the world right, yeah and sowhat was so?
what was so cool?

Speaker 5 (52:00):
I know right, jeremiah was a bullfrog.
You did that in church, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Well, it was a church dance and my brother's band was
playing.
It was the only song I knew.
That I knew all the way through.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
And then again it said it went over so well
because he got a standing O thathe played it seven more times.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
It reminded me of you guys.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
He played it seven times eight times in the night
and you said, oh yeah, we'd playHicktown over and over again.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
You played it seven more times at that day.
No, that night I was a littlenine-year-old kid and I'm
holding the mic and I was like Idon't know any more songs and
my brother goes sing it again.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
You're killing them.

Speaker 5 (52:36):
See, that's what I'm talking about Learning how to
get through it, though You'relaughing about it.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
You're about learning how to get through it, though I
mean, you're laughing about it,we.
We did hicktown twice, and thesecond one was 18 minutes.

Speaker 4 (52:49):
I get it well in any cover.
Are you serious?
You did that.
Hey, we got a special request,let's play.

Speaker 5 (52:51):
Yeah, exactly we did all band introductions.
We needed time.
Yeah, we had one song in 90minutes that's right oh my god,
but that's the deal you pullfrom what you did when you were
a kid and how to get through itand you circle right back around
to what young artists don'thave any idea how to yeah, they

(53:13):
don't that that stage presenceof just no, they can't even play
, if, if the track rig goes down.
Yeah, oh boy, sorry.
Yeah, you're right, that's justthe truth, like if that's oh boy
I know it might be on carpet alittle bit too much underneath
the hood maybe I don't know,well, I mean, it's true, though
it's true if the artist getslost in a song today.

(53:35):
Oh boy, oh boy oh boy, oh boy.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
I I had a gig the other night where it was one of
those moments where the micstand dropped, you know, like it
was a loose Mm-hmm, and I kindof just kind of you know, leaned
in and got my elbow on it.
Yeah, strummed the E chord anddid that and got it back.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
See, I'm more proud of that than the Dix Well.
Heck, yeah, yeah, and I'm moreproud of that than the dicks
Well heck yeah, they couldn't dothat today.
They'd just be standing there.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
You see what I just did.
They'd be lost.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
What a save.
They wouldn't have that.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
That was a predator save right there.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Do y'all think it'll do you?

Speaker 2 (54:12):
guys think it'll ever get back, or start trending
back to where artists will startlooking for songs again instead
of trying to write everythingthat they did, that they do I'd
like, I'd like to think yes, butI don't know I think so I don't
either.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
I mean, um, I think that was part of the charm too,
like you were speaking toearlier.
Um, an artist would hear acertain thing that the writer
did vocally or or lyrically, ormelodically, and they'd want to
try to capture, or they wantedto get a piece of that vibe
because they didn't have itthemselves, or whatever.

(54:51):
Um, I think that was a hugepart of, uh, a few years ago
yeah, yeah, it's not as much.

Speaker 5 (54:58):
Well, they're not letting.
They're not letting artistshave time to develop it.
Yeah, so something's goingviral.
They're taking them.
They see, okay, streams here,they can get streams, they can,
you know, do that, and sothere's no development, they're
just thrown out there.
So you know, when you're anartist and you could like an
aldine and we cut the firstrecord 27 years ago.

(55:21):
So crazy, you know, you, you, socrazy yeah, it's been over 20
years, so it's amazing, you, youchange so much from the first
record and second record andthird, you're developing as you
go.
But these guys today they'rejust thrown out there.

Speaker 4 (55:34):
So that whole process is I don't know if they're even
feeling it the way we feel, theprocess itself I don't, and
it's interesting because stillthe biggest artists in the genre
are the ones that have takenoutside songs.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
If you still look at Kenny the Jasons, the Tims even
Church, even though they mightbe involved in the writing
process.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
They still want it from Blake.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
Yeah, absolutely, and you have, and this used to
singles took a lot longer on theradio.
Now they're going, then it goes, you know, goes back and forth.
But everything's going so fastnow and you have these artists
that they've spent years writingthat first record, right, and
then, and yet it's really anamazing record.
Then they say, okay, you gotabout.
You got about a year to come upwith you know something, even

(56:20):
better.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Something better than that in a year's time.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
What am I?
What am I going to do?
You know, and some of them aredoing it.
They're working like crazy.
I mean you have, and there areartists, I think, that are still
doing you know, outside,obviously Aldine, but, but even
Morgan Wallen is a very giftedwriter.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (56:42):
And then people are getting calls and like and like
hey, to cut this song.
And you're like are you kidding?
I haven't had that, you knowblessing yet, dear lord, but
morgan has learned that.
Morgan was when he was out withus, when he came out and opened
for us before he exploded, andI remember him talking to us
about that, though like sayingI'll cut any gray song right
because he was looking, he waslearning.
Morgan really soaked in a lotfrom aldine.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Yeah, just observed what was going on?

Speaker 5 (57:06):
he did the same way that we did when we were out
there with toby and kenny andsome of these other guys like
mcgraw and those guys I couldsee morgan learning and what to
do or how to do it.
You know like, yeah, hey, thisgets me.
If a great song gets me here,send it.

(57:27):
Like yes, right.

Speaker 4 (57:29):
Brother Granter, yeah , it is yeah and that's he
leaves it open.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Yeah, there's a lot of artists that don't leave it
open.
They want to write everything,they want their name on
everything.
I guess that's okay, but youknow, time will tell yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
But you look at like, even like through the years,
like a lot of the rock and rollartists they didn't I mean, I'm
not, you know, not eagles,obviously.
But if you look like ericclapton cut a lot of great
outside songs, wonderful changethe world.

Speaker 4 (57:55):
Lay down sally change the world even ariel smith.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Great song, ariel smith when they hit their
biggest comeback, diane warrenwas writing a lot of that stuff.

Speaker 4 (58:03):
Yep, yep.
So you know, hopefully that'sthe way it goes.
Are you still doing the, thesongwriting academy?

Speaker 1 (58:09):
yeah, I still do it, still teach it, and um still got
a publisher hat on too and uh,waving all the flags and now my
daughter's writing too.
So I'm kind of navigating thatwith her and um, she's doing
really great and but theacademy's great.
I've been doing that for that'sgoing on 20 years for me doing
that and um, have a lot of fun.
I love you guys might be thesame, but I love when you, when

(58:32):
you're seeing a kid, like whenthey get what they're about
musically you know what I meanwhen, when, when you see that
happen, I just I get a kick outof that and like you see
somebody that cause, you knoweverybody, everybody's trying to
chase the carrot.
You know, and you know they gotto train up on their butt
behind them and they're chasingthe carrot but trying to do what

(58:52):
everybody else is doing.
And so my, my, my thing hasalways been to tell everybody
like, um, my dad, my mom and dadused to two-step to me when I
would play the bars.
You know, around a circle theytwo-step around stage and and I
was really good at doing merlehagger covers at that point and
my dad would two-step by andhe'd be like Mom, he's like
sounds good son.

Speaker 3 (59:13):
And.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
I'm like thanks Dad.
And he'd come by the second timeand he goes.
You're only ever going to bethe second best Merle Haggard,
though, but you know what I mean.
You've got to be you, and Itook that to heart Like I was
pissed at him too.
I was like screw you, dad.

(59:34):
But I try to tell him.
You know, like you can chaseeverybody, what everybody's
doing, but you got to rememberthat it's probably going to be
five years away, like right to10 years away.
Go down to Broadway.
There's the next Aldean,there's the next Morganean,
there's the next morgan.
Wallen down there.
Go like.
When I came to town, craigcraig weisman was playing drums

(59:55):
with tim mcgraw at the.
What's that?

Speaker 2 (59:57):
hotel over there by bmi.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Oh my god, the oh you know the little uh, oh yeah,
that they got the club overthere.
I forget what it's called.
That's where I ran into tobyit's like the famous of oh gosh,
the Hall of Fame type.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Hall of Fame.
Hall of Fame, let's go.
Craig was playing drums.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
I saw many fights in the Hall of Fame.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Yeah, but we all did those gigs right and we and met
you know guys.
That went on to be, and I wason the same label with Tim and
we knew each other.
But so you're hanging out withyou know like, like, like back
in the day, I would get peoplethey still do it now but like,
especially back in the day, likecan you get my song to Rascal
flats?
I'm like no but, I really can't, I really.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
You know what I?

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
mean Like I'm not going to do that.
I mean just go find your, findyour guys, Trust me, it's a
better road.
Find the next guys and be withthem and be their guy.

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
That's great advice.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
You know what I mean and sure enough you know that
works.
It never doesn't work.
If you're coming up, you shouldbe with the players that are
coming up and the singers thatare coming up.

Speaker 5 (01:01:04):
Does that still happen?
So I moved here in 96 orwhatever.
First thing I did went down toBarbara's in the alley.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Went down to 16th.

Speaker 5 (01:01:14):
Avenue Cafe.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
That's a nice place to go now.
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 5 (01:01:18):
You haven't changed.
By the way, you still look thesame.
I went down and wanted to sitin, wanted a place in, keith
Whitley Wanted to sit.
Is that happening?

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
I don't know.
No, it's not.
You know, I don't know, Icouldn't.
I've gotten you know.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
They're tearing all those buildings down when you
said barbers, I thought barbershome cooking out here and uh,
frankly I got amazing friedchicken.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Well, here's another thing to throw out um music row.
I mean not, my studio is not onMusic Row proper, but it was
for a long time.
I drove by the other day.
I was with one of my kids andwe drove by 19th.
Is it Grand over there?

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
Remember where South Street used to be?

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Oh yeah, so whatever that.
Grand Division oh, you can'tget through there, Not Division
but like one of those sidestreets Got it.
But Alamo Irving used to bethere and I drove by.
I was like alamo irving man Iwrote prom there, I wrote I wish
there.
I wrote uh sick and I becausethat's where craig was tony

(01:02:19):
moons was there, uh, chriswallen was there, anthony smith,
annie roboff, uh, um, kentrobbins was there, um, and I'm
driving by and I was like, yeah,I was telling my kid, I was
like you know, I wrote such aset.
I'm looking at the first floorand it's all ellipticals.
Oh my god, no short carpet andellipticals and mirrors and this

(01:02:46):
is a what the hell's going on.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
It's so sad it's a transition to a song called
Speed.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
It's so sad man, yeah right and then you know, of
course, the UA Tower had to comedown it had to come down.
It was gonna come downeventually but it was, you know,
to see some of the a lot ofthat history not there anymore
in a lot of the studios.
I did a session with DwightYoakam about a year ago at Omni
Sound.
Oh, omni, yeah, and you knowit's gone.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
They tore it down, favorite still probably my
favorite place to track.
That's where you two played onthat was the best room.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
The first demo y'all played on for me was at Omni.

Speaker 5 (01:03:17):
So much stuff in that room.
When that went down and it'sbeen, I tell everybody, like man
, back in the day day there wasso much excitement, music or
their studios, there was songsbeing slung.
There was all this excitement.
You couldn't not play a sessionas players, like back in the
day.
It was like dude, as manysessions as you wanted to?
Yeah, yeah, right, yeah,studios are gone.

(01:03:40):
Now high rises hotels.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Like man, this is sad like you see, like maybe we
sound old.
Now the new apartment goes upand it says like it's called
Melody on the Row oh my gosh.
Melody on the Row.
What?
There's no melody, that's justa bunch of ellipticals.
Melody on the Row oh man, Idon't know.

Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
Jeffrey, this is probably a conversation that
could last forever oh my God,Right, but listen we are so
thankful.
Oh, my honor, I mean we are sothankful that you're here.
You're an icon.
You really are.

Speaker 5 (01:04:11):
And still doing it, thank you Still doing it and,
more importantly, a bass player.

Speaker 3 (01:04:15):
Finally A bass player , finally A little notoriety.
Who's?

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
tatted up more, though.
Well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
I don't know.
It's hard to say Shirts off it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Thanks for coming in.
We're very appreciative.

Speaker 3 (01:04:29):
Thank you guys for having us and thanks for doing
it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
the right way, thank you, thank you, right back at
you.
Cheers to your success, cheers.

Speaker 4 (01:04:38):
Hey guys, thanks for listening.
Don't forget to follow us onall the social platforms at Try
that Podcast and, of course, ifyou're watching on YouTube, make
sure you like and subscribe andleave a comment.
We love interacting with you,thanks.

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EPISODE 12: Jeffrey Steele on Family Influence, Songwriting Triumphs, and the Evolution of Country Music

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