Standing in God's Light: John Rich's Fearless Path :: Ep 50 Try That in a Small Town Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am an anomaly chaser, somebody like Big Kenny
what is that?
That's an anomaly.
Cowboy, troy is an anomaly,gretchen Wilson was an anomaly.
Big and Rich is an anomaly.
If you look back through mycareer, it's been the chasing of
the anomaly and the winner ofCelebrity Apprentice is.

(00:54):
John Rich and the confettistarts falling.
And I stood up and go oh my God, wow, I can't believe it.
Trump walks over to me, putshis arm around me and we're
waving at the crowd.
He leans down in my ear and hegoes did you hear?
I'm thinking about running forpresident?
I swear 2011.
And the arrogant, satanic sideof this industry has no concept

(01:17):
of that.
They hate kids.
They wish they would never beborn in the first place and if
they are born, they're going totry to grab them and twist them
into their nasty, evil, wickedintent, because if you come from
my kids, I'll kill every lastone of you the Try that in a
Small Town podcast begins now.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
All right, welcome back to another episode of the
Try that in the Small Townpodcast.
We are at the Patriot MobileStudios.
We've got Kalo right there,thrash, we've got TK and tonight
this is super awesome We've gota great guest.
He's a multi-platinum sellingartist.
He's an ASCAP three-timesongwriter of the year Three.

(02:03):
That's pretty impressive.
And also he's a pretty danggood businessman.
Let's uh, welcome John.

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Ritz thanks for the invite, as I was trying to
figure out the intro there.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
I'm sitting there going through and I'm like, oh
my god, major superstar, majorprolific songwriter, prolific
producer.
How would you describe yourselfas to somebody else, like what
are you in the music businessterms?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
what I'm in the music business sense of everything
nobody knew you.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
How would you describe yourself like?
Oh I'm a songwriter.
Oh, I'm an artist.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
I am an anomaly chaser.

Speaker 5 (02:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
So what has always interested me in music is
finding the things that nobodyelse sees.
That I think, whether it be asong idea or an artist that's
out there somewhere, or somebodylike Big Kenny what is that?
That's an anomaly.
Cowboy Troy is an anomaly.
Gretchen Wilson's an anomaly.
Cowboy Troy is an anomaly.
Gretchen Wilson was an anomaly.
Big and Rich is an anomaly.
If you look back through mycareer, it's been the chasing of

(03:14):
the anomaly.
Like I get bored with theredundant nature of the industry
, I've always been moreinterested in chasing the things
that are not going to bepopular with the industry but I
know the public's going to loveit.
And in that has has been a lotof stories of me back and forth
with publishers, record labelsand so forth.
But to me that's the biggest umrush you can get is to see

(03:41):
something or think of somethingthat nobody else is really
thinking that way and thenfollow it.
You know I remind people allthe time Declaration of
Independence.
It does not say we have theright to be happy in America.
It says we have the right topursue happiness in America.
And the word pursuit in and ofitself means to be in motion.
That means happiness is amoving target.

(04:03):
What made you happy in your 20sis probably not what makes you
happy in your 30s, and it'sprobably different in your 40s
and 50s and 60s and so forth.
Life changes.
Happiness is a moving target.
So I've never been the one tosaid if something didn't work
out and a lot of stuff I've donehasn't worked out just like for
all of us I appreciated theshot I was pursuing.

(04:30):
Happiness Didn't get it on thatone, but I'm an American, so I
get to come again and again andagain and again.
That's the pursuit of happiness.
So I think my attitude hasalways been that I want to chase
down the thing that I think isthe most interesting deal and
see what happens.

Speaker 5 (04:38):
Hey, don't worry folks, he's going to get warmed
up soon.

Speaker 4 (04:42):
I don't know if that was the answer, you're looking
for.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
I'd rather want a more literal answer.
No, I was jealous of the mafiathere for a while.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Mafia was absolutely an anomaly.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
It's a really interesting point.
We go way back.
We all kind of got to townprobably around the same time.
It's not like we hung outtogether, but we all knew of
each other.
And of course we knew of johnway back in the day and tully
was telling him a story beforewe got on camera how he?
met john, but the music mafiawas that exactly and I remember

(05:13):
this.
I know you remember thisbecause we were going to that
thing, yeah, and I mean it wasyeah, I'll let you describe it,
but it was a jam session,basically open to everybody and
anybody, and kid rock was thereand three doors down I mean bon
jovi, anybody would show up talkabout the music mafia.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
So, basically, what you had was is a group of
artists singer, songwriters thatnone of them fit what was
currently going on in nashvillenot none of them, but they all
had immense talent and some ofthem were rock.
None of them, but they all hadimmense talent and some of them
were rock.
Some of them were blues guys,some of them were bluegrass guys

(05:51):
, some of them were spoken wordartists.

Speaker 6 (05:54):
I mean you had a painter there.
I remember we had a livepainting.
She would paint live.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
She would paint the room live is what was going on.
Anything that we saw that blewus away somebody's talent,
regardless of where it fit ordidn't fit.
We would invite them to come bea part of this thing.
So it turned into this carnivalkind of atmosphere.
But you guys know, everybodythat took the mic knocked your
brains out.
That's where James Otto came in.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
I was getting ready to say James Otto.
James Otto is one of the mostbrutal singers that ever walked
he really is John Nicholson.

Speaker 5 (06:26):
remember that guy oh gosh.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Freak of nature, talent, yeah.
So Big Kenny and I looked atthis situation and Nashville was
still very it was veryequation-driven.
It still is to a point.
But back then it was like thefavorite phrase they had was
well, that ain't country.
Well, that's good, but thatain't country and I would hear
people say that and I go.
You know what?
That's what they said aboutJohnny Cash when he showed up he

(06:50):
ain't country.
I got to have lunch with EddieArnold one time when I was in
Lone Star Joe Galante, who wasrunning RCA.
He said, man, if there'sanything I ever do for you, joe,
just let me know.
I said there is, he goes.
What's that?
I go.
I'd like to meet eddie arnold.
Wow, he goes really.
And eddie was on rca.
He still had a record dealthere.
He said I'll set up a lunch foryou guys.

(07:11):
So I sat down, went to at thesunset grill oh yeah, yep me and
eddie arnold sitting there andmr arnold looks at me and he
goes.
He's probably 80 at this point.
He goes yo man, mr galani theresays that your music's kind of
different.
I said yeah, it is, it's kindof different.
He goes well, you know what?

(07:31):
However, it sounds to you uphere, just make sure it always
sounds like that on that record.
That's all you got to do.
He said listen.
Uh.
He said back in my day peopletold me I wouldn't country.
You know why?
They told me that.
I said why'd they tell you that, mr Arnold?
He said because I'd wear a suitjacket and sometimes I'd wear a
bow tie and sometimes I'd havestrings playing behind me.

(07:52):
And everybody says I should beplaying with Count Basie and I'm
in that end of American music.
But he said but I know I'm acountry boy, that's just how I
hear it in my head.
He said so, however it soundsin your head, make sure that's
how it sounds on whatever recordyou make.
It was one of the best piece ofadvice I ever got.
So Music Mafia was that itsounds this way in our heads.

(08:12):
Here we go.
Gretchen Wilson is a bartenderat that point at Bourbon Street
Blues and Boogie Bar workingdoubles and she's coming in
there destroying people.

Speaker 6 (08:23):
Oh my, I mean just one of the most vicious singers
that ever walked.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
And what happened is we did 72 Tuesdays in a row.
We picked the worst night ofthe week at the smallest spot in
town, the Pub of Love.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
Pub of Love cross from 12th and Porter right Maybe
crammed 60 people in that room?

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, and by the time we hit the 72nd Tuesday, big
and Rich was signed, james Ottowas signed, cowboy Troy was
signed, gretchen Wilson wassigned.
Shannon Lawson was taking a runat that point.

Speaker 5 (08:53):
So everybody in there got their shot.

Speaker 6 (08:55):
That's amazing, what a great time in town too.
Though you mentioned 12th and P, it was a different feel for
the town yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
We were talking about it and it.
It's unfortunate that you knowI don't know if we're the old
men in the room talking, butit's like you were saying here
before we got on.
It's like that's where youfound people, that's where you
collaborated, that's how youkind of mixed.
You know your musicalinfluences together and it.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
It's unfortunate that I don't think that that happens
today it's hard, yeah, it'shard to cross-pollinate people
when they've all got headphoneson sitting in their home studio
and they're not out in the livescenario.
Because I'm sure you've got thesame stories.
I've walked in before and notknown who I was really going to
see, but that guy just didsomething, said something, sang

(09:40):
a certain way and I went that isbad to the bone, whatever that
is, and then I would go I wantto incorporate some of that what
I'm doing, right, like you'resaying you would start to, and I
think nashville was always thatway until here recently yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 5 (09:53):
Well, I'm going going back a little bit because, as I
was telling you beforeresearching you yesterday, even
deeper, because I've always hada huge respect for you, just as
a writer.
The first song I heard of yoursthat I knew as yours was
redneck woman, which I'm tellingyou I want to.
I want to write that they wroteabout a group that's not been
talked about in forever and itcomes from a real place, you
know, because you you were adouble-wide trailer, never

(10:14):
hungry but didn't have a lot ofextra lights and you saw those
christmas lights hanging around.
Yeah, your place might have beenon your place, you know yeah,
for sure but but even backbefore coming to town and
Opryland was around, you know,back with the ride and the music
and bluegrass and all thatstuff.
Well, three of us, includingyou now, tried out at Opryland
Me and Neil did the same thingand we got callbacks but we

(10:36):
didn't get to work there becausethey asked us to dance and we
couldn't do it.
You got a pass because you're arich kid, because they didn't
make you dance.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
you said you could two-step, but you got the job
anyway, which is amazing right,yeah, because I wasn't going to
audition at all and I was asenior in high school and a
friend of mine said I had beensinging at school and you know
meeting girls in the parking lot, you know singing at the
whatever bonfire party and thisgood friend of mine, marcus
peters, he goes, he has atennessean out goes.
Look at this Arpin Land'shaving auditions.

(11:05):
You should go audition for that.
I said man, they ain't going tohire me.
He goes, why not?
I said because you've got to beable to dance and it's all this
like stage stuff.
He goes.
Well, just, you should auditionanyway.
You know there's going to be abunch of good.
So I loaded up and drove myDodge Dart Swinger over there
and auditioned and I got thecall back and then I told them I

(11:26):
said I am not, I ain't into thedancing thing.
They said can you dance at all?
I said well, I can two-step.
And they go well, if you cantwo-step, we'll just keep you in
that mode of you don't minddoing that.

Speaker 6 (11:36):
I said I don't mind that it was the wrong thing.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Dean Sams, where he invited me to be in a band that
became Lone Star.

Speaker 5 (11:44):
Lone Star and your first number one.
Yeah, it came from there.

Speaker 6 (11:46):
Yeah, that's where all that.
And so where Dean Sams iswearing his headset, mic Right.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
On the keyboard.
I hate rockers' keyboards.
Got that keytar going.
I love Dean.
Dean gave me a shot.
Let me tell you how bad I was.
So Dean comes to me at Opryland.
He goes hey, a bunch of friendsfrom Texas, these are like,
they play the Texas circuits.
These guys are great.

(12:11):
We're going to put this littleband together and just play
locally around Nashville.
He goes you play bass, right?
I said I mean yeah, I can playa bass.
I mean well, how hard could itbe?

Speaker 6 (12:22):
It's got four strings , it's got four strings.

Speaker 5 (12:24):
It's got four strings .

Speaker 1 (12:25):
That's the best lie we've ever heard on this podcast
.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
It's got four strings .
He goes cool man, and he handsme a cassette and he goes here's
the top 40 songs on countrymusic this week.
We're going to have our firstrehearsal this Saturday and I
went OK and I put it in mypocket and I called a friend of
mine who was an actualprofessional bass player and I
said hey man, I need to comeover to your house, I need to
borrow a bass.
I need you to show me how toplay bass on these songs.

(12:52):
I can play.
I can play guitar well, but Iwas like never messed with a
bass much, so I spent 12, 14hours a day five or six days in
a a row going over thoseparticular songs playing thumb
wow, couldn't do that playinglike this.

Speaker 4 (13:08):
You didn't play with a pick, you actually went, I
mean that's.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
I was never played.
I was not a bass player.
Yeah, so you know you'replaying guitar like this, so
this doesn't make sense ifyou've never done that.
Yeah, so I get it down.
I come walking into the to therehearsal.
It's richie mcdonald, michaelbrit, dean sams, all these guys
and they look at me walking inwith a borrowed bass.
No case cord no amp.
That sounds like no tech.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
Who is this?

Speaker 2 (13:33):
guy like I remember richie mcdonald going uh what is
going?
Is this a joke?
But we do the rehearsal.
I'm terrible on the bass but Iwas the only guy in the band
that could sing higher thanrichie, that's right.
So because I could hit thatthird or fifth above, richie.
They sat me down, they saidyou're gonna have to get better
on the bass.
But I was the only guy in theband that could sing higher than
richie, that's right.
So because I could hit thatthird or fifth above richie,
they sat me down.
They said you're gonna have toget better on the bass.
But you're in the band butyou've got to get better on the

(13:53):
bass.
I said I'm ready, like I didn'tknow.
I remember I asked our drummer,a guy named mike tucker at the
time who played in a band calledcanyon out of texas before that
.
I asked Mike Tucker.
I said man, what is it I'mhearing?
When I listen to a record and Ihear the bass note, it sounds
like it's got this punch to itor something.

(14:13):
Is he hitting it with a pick?
He goes no, that's the kickdrum.

Speaker 6 (14:20):
That's how far out.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
I was that's awesome.

Speaker 6 (14:25):
Any video.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
I saw of him you're hitting the bass, You're not
playing.
It was badass.
That was to distract you fromhow I knew about the instrument.

Speaker 6 (14:32):
The no news video, though you look good doing it.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Oh yeah, and that's how you battle man.
That is right, that is.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
So I owe those guys a lot.
I have to say they I owe thoseguys a lot.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
I have to say, they gave me a shot when I didn't
deserve it and that was thespringboard Give people.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
A little back story.
How long were you with LoneStar?
And then, if you want, to talkabout how it ended.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
I was with them.
Our first gig was December of92.
My last gig with them was NewYear's Eve, going into 1998, so
the last day of 97.
Wow yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:02):
And did you end up leaving?
Was it mutual?
Did you know?

Speaker 3 (15:07):
that you wanted to do something solo.
They fired me.
Why?
Why'd they fire?

Speaker 2 (15:11):
you Because I deserve to be fired Really, because I
was.
You know how I am at 51.
I'm a rather intense individual.
You can imagine me in my earlymid-20s what that was all about.

Speaker 5 (15:24):
This is a safe space you had that number one just
right out the gate so they wereall married, kids and all that.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
I'm totally single and I'm writing number one songs
.
I got money.
I'm running around.
I'm wanting to record songslike Save a Horse, ride a Cowboy
.
They're wanting to record Mrlike Save a Horse.

Speaker 5 (15:45):
Ride a Cowboy.
They're wanting to record MrMom Right, that's okay, that's
not bad.
I don't agree.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Opposite views, and the more aggravated I got, the
more aggravated they got.
They're like hey, sit down,you're the junior member, which
I was, and eventually that justbecame unsustainable.
So they had a meeting called ina meeting I don't know what it
was about.
It was about me and they saidNew Year's Eve, the gig we just
did in Kennesaw, georgia, I go,yeah, they go, that was your
last gig.
This was like January 6th orsomething, 7th or 8th.

(16:10):
They said so you need to getyour stuff off the bus and I'm
sorry and I went, that's it.
They go that's it and go fromthe phone ringing all the time
to nobody's calling.
The agent ain't calling, themanager's not calling, the press
is not calling nobody.
You also lose your publishingdeal because of that right
because back.

(16:30):
Then you get the record deal.
You got a publishing deal.
Well, if you're not on the bandanymore, that's the only reason
we gave you that.
Yeah, so the publishing deal isgone.
The the income from the road isgone.
You're no longer john rich oflone star, you're just john rich
who gives a shit yeah and yougo, you go overnight into that
and then right after that iswhen they put out amazed, right

(16:53):
after that uh-huh and I'msitting at home can't afford the
rent.
Watching the cma awards,watching these boys sing, amazed
, the biggest song.
They've been out 20 years andthere's four of them and not
five of them because I'm sittingat home was that right after?

Speaker 5 (17:08):
was that released right after you said I'll show
them, they won't be, they won'tbe anything without me.
I had the attitude of I'll showthem.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, and galani galani actually gave me a solo
record deal on bna and I made arecord and they put out two
songs and they both just didn'teven break the top 50 and then
he dropped me from that.
So I get fired from the band.
My solo deal tanks.
Now what and right about thenis when I met Big Kenny, ran

(17:38):
into him at Douglas Corner.

Speaker 6 (17:40):
It's amazing in life.
We talk about it a lot in thistown, especially these stories
where it's amazing in life.
We talk about a lot in thistown, especially these stories
where it's like one one thingleads to another and how that
happens.
And uh, it's, it's like how wecame to meet you like, like you
know, to segue into that andwhat you've done for our career
with jason, oh, heck yeah, youknow, you write hicktown and we

(18:01):
were struggling and we were youand we were.
you know, we've been with Jasonfor years and had no money.
This song comes in, you know,which was the cornerstone not to
jump ahead too much, but thecornerstone for the whole thing.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
No, absolutely there are a couple essential pieces in
how Jason Aldean's career tookoff.
Obviously, jason being who heis, michael Knox, who believed
in him from the start and JohnRich not only wrote Hicktown but
he wrote a lot of people don'tknow that single.
It's not talking amaryllo sky,which was the next thing.
Yep, johnny cash.
So the four first jason aldeansingles were john rich.

(18:38):
Maybe talk about that a littlebit because, like tully said, I
mean that was hugelyinstrumental to j Jason's career
and our career with Jason.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
So one thing I tell people I do a lot of speaking
engagements now, which isinteresting because I have a
high school diploma, grew up ina double-edged trailer.
Who am I to speak to?
Anybody, but I'll get booked.
At these places there's four orfive thousand business people
and they want to hear the story.
Business people and they wantto hear the story.
So one thing I always stress tothem is I tell the story that
we're telling right now abouthow you hit that wall, going 100

(19:10):
miles an hour, what you do nextwhen nobody cares about you, or
what you're doing.
That's going to be where youmake your bones right there.
So there was a four to five yearperiod where I did not have a
record deal, didn't haveanything going on, and I said,
well, what's the last thing Ican control?
Is there anything in my controlanymore?

(19:30):
The answer was no.
I can't control what the labeldid, what the publisher did,
what can I still control?
I can control this pencil and Ican control this notebook and I
can control that Gibson guitarright there.
So find something you can stillcontrol and control it.
Well, now for you, that may behow many push-ups am I going to
do today?
How many am I going to walk amile today?

(19:52):
Am I going to call 30 peopletoday and try to get a new job?
Whatever that is, focus on thething you can control and
control it well, and eventuallyyou will start getting some
traction and you'll buildyourself back out.
So what I was doing in thosedays when I ran into Jason the
first time was I was writingabout 200 songs a year that
nobody cared about.
But Michael Knox, uh, knew abunch of my songs.

(20:16):
I had land, at one point,landed a little deal with Warner
chapel and he was my pluggerand he said man, I got this kid
come into town from Georgia.
Uh, he and he was my plugger.
And he said man, I got this kidcoming to town from Georgia,
he's trying to get a record deal.
Man, I played him some of yourdemos.
Man, he loves them.
I go, that's cool, I go.
Which ones do you like?
And he said Hicktown, emeraldSky, why Johnny Cash?
Just a man.
He starts going like this.
I said well, I like his taste insongs.

(20:37):
Those are my favorite, knox.
I got to tell you, man, I meanI'm hoping to get those cut
Right.
I need to get some cuts.
He goes, I mean he's just goingto use them in the showcase.

Speaker 6 (20:49):
One of our 50 showcases.
We'll see what happens.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Just use them in the showcases, I said.
He said, if you get signed, youknow that'd be great, right,
and maybe he'd cut them.
I said, yeah, you know that'sgreat pitching them though,
right?
He said, of course, keeppitching them.
And then we all know whathappened.
And now dean gets that deal,and then he did cut all those
songs and then it was a fireworkshow.
So I'll give you an interestinglittle piece on the calendar.
I believe it was april of 2004I think that's when it was was

(21:17):
hicktown redneck woman and savea horse ride a cowboy.
All went for ads that month allthat month, those songs the same
month and I really think thatis when the crowbar blasted the
door open and just all hellbroke loose in Nashville, Like
Florida Georgia Line has told meand Kenny.
When we heard those three inparticular songs, we realized,

(21:40):
oh, if that'll work, what we'redoing might work.
Oh, 100%.
People started coming to town.
So I mean, mean you never?
Even yeah, understand theramifications of wood shedding
like that and even taylor swiftjumped on the john rich.
Yeah, she did, she used to callme all the time right before
yeah back in the day she wasback in the day.
Hey, if you could reverse timeback back to those years with

(22:02):
taylor, she would have beensitting right here with the rest
of us.

Speaker 4 (22:06):
We remember her the same thing back in those days.
I mean, it was a differentperson back then.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, she used to call me about all kinds of stuff
, wanting to write songs.
But then she'd say hey, how doyou and Kenny look at regular
stuff, like at an award show,like a red carpet, for instance?
She goes you guys just seem tomake everybody else is doing it,
but when you guys do it, itmakes the news and everybody's
doing it.
I said take the regular thingsand think them through before

(22:32):
you do it and make something up.
She goes yeah, you guys justrode horses down the red carpet
with a bunch of hot girlsdressed like aliens.
I went right.
I said that's just so we wouldget.
We would chew up all the press,and so she would call me for
advice, like that.

Speaker 4 (22:45):
Wow, wow.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Hey, so Sam Horace.

Speaker 4 (22:47):
I don't think people realize that was the second
single off that album, right.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yeah, the second single.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
The label hated that song Okay so I got to ask this
Wild West was the first oneright it did.
I don't even know what itcharted it didn't make the noise
.
Mid-20s In your mind, did youguys think that Wild West was
going to be the thing that brokeyou?
Or did you know that you hadSave a Horse in your pocket?

Speaker 2 (23:08):
We wanted Save a Horse to be the first single.

Speaker 6 (23:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Now Paul Worley was running the label.
Thank God for him, becauseshort of him we wouldn't have
gotten signed anywhere.
Everybody was like said I thinkbig and rich is a thing.
Originally they said we don'tthink you should put save a
horse, ride a cowboy on therecord at all.
Oh wow, because people will nottake you seriously if a song

(23:33):
that ridiculous is on yourrecord and big kenny's going.
But man, they love it at musicmafia.
I mean we play it, we just gocrazy, I mean.
And I said I said he's right,man, I mean they go nuts when we
play that song.
We're like come on, man, justlet us make it an album cut and
paul goes okay, fine, we'll justbury it down in the lineup.
So we put out wild west show.

(23:53):
A few weeks after that we putthe whole record out so the fans
could now get their hands on arecord.
And next thing, you know,there's radio stations calling
the record label saying, hey,the fans are blowing us up in
tampa wanting us to play trackseven off the horse of a
different color record.
You, okay, if we play that.
They're like sure, and thatjust started taking off.
So it forced wild west show offthe air.

Speaker 5 (24:15):
And then here comes save a horse which, by the way,
never went top 10 wow, now Iwould have lost my house on that
because and it just proves thatthat, that you know there's so
many different opinions andflavors and stuff, like when
that song came out, I admit, andI did love it, but I thought
you can't say that.
You can't say that.
You can't say that but thenthink about that song I agree, I

(24:38):
still think I should, but I hadnothing out at all.
I had nothing to speak on andyou're just listening to
everything else and it didn'tsound like everything else.
But to think that Save a Horse,ride a Cowboy is a timeless,
because it's one of my.
Every time it comes on, everytime you hear it just the intro
on your commercials and stufflike that, just the guitar.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
It's like, oh my God, it's one of my favorite songs,
last songs, last night.
My son starts going daddy,daddy, come in here and I'm.
He's watching the mass singerand the entire cast of the mass
singer, which are all in theircostumes, are kicked.
The whole show off with save ahorse, ride a cowboy.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
I'm like I guarantee you, the label took credit for
it yeah, that'll never work.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Bigger and bigger but it didn't go top 10, and you
know why.
So we were the number oneselling record in country music
for like seven weeks in a row.
We were selling over a hundredthousand units a week.
While that song was out numberone on the sales chart by a long
shot.
Country radio said we're we'redropping the single because it's
not researching well what agreat word if you want to know

(25:41):
how much bs country radio is,that's, it didn't go number one
either.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
Well, hey, you talk about those songs.

Speaker 6 (25:48):
Yeah, you talk about hicktown and and why yeah,
emerald sky, johnny cash, just aman yeah all means so much to
us.
So you know it took us a longtime to get a deal with jason
like it took us a long time andwe were playing those songs
every showcase.
And I see people that you know,we know now that walk up to us

(26:08):
and hug us and stuff.
I remember walking, seeingthose same people walking out of
those showcases.
You know, wow.
I remember amaryllis sky.
I remember seeing people turnaround and walk out and by the
end of the showcase we'replaying love, I want to be in
which you wrote with jason yeah,for nobody.
And you've fast forward a coupleyears and you look at amaryllis
sky and hicktown amaryllis sky.

(26:29):
I remember, uh, the labelcalling we're on the bus going
to some club and the labelcalling saying, hey, amaryllis
sky is dying.
It was at 17 and it was dying.
And I remember, uh, I neverforget, joe jamie from broken
bow at that time called us andshe said I told the radio what
are you going to play if youdon't play Jason Aldean and
Emerald Sky and that song?

(26:52):
That song didn't go.
Where would that go?
It wasn't number one, no, butto this day we play Emerald Sky.
It might as well be a 10 weeknumber one.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Ba-dow-dow-d.
It might as well be a 10 weeknumber one.

Speaker 6 (27:04):
It is so, it is so to this day, people of all ages.
It's like Hicktown ittranscends the genre like Save a
Horse.
You know, I remember when Savea Horse came out we were in a
very struggling band calledRushlow playing some really
light songs.
Dude and I remember me and Curtand Rich were in our house in
Hermitage, dude and dude, and Iremember me and kurt and rich

(27:26):
were in our house in hermitageand we're sitting there in
hermitage broke into thestruggling band and that video
came on and me and kurt said weare screwed.
I said that is what we need tobe too.
That's what we are right likeright, just unabridged.

Speaker 4 (27:41):
Do see what you are yeah, when nashville was trying
to.
You got to fit in the box.

Speaker 5 (27:46):
It's just one small miscalculation and you could
have been John Rich.
One small thing.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
You should have put a fur coat on.
By the way, I was going to say.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
The thing that I think me and Al Dean have in
common as people and as loversof country music is if country
music is a hobby to you, get out.
It's not a hobby to me, it'snot a hobby to jason aldean, it
is serious business.

(28:15):
I can't tell you how many newartists out there now that open
for big and rich and get them onthe road.
I always come out to the busman, hang out.
I'm gonna get to know you alittle bit and I'll always hand
him a guitar.
I'll say, all right, I got achallenge for you.
They'll go okay, what is it?
I'll go play three songs thatwere hits before you were born.
Just three.
They can't do it.

Speaker 3 (28:35):
They cannot do it.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
And so what you start to realize is what's the
difference in them, them andguys like me, and aldine and
others.
We study country music, we godeep into it.
We I want to know eddie arnold.
I want to know him.
I want to.
I want to go.
Take johnny cash's songs apartand see how does he get so much
impact with so few words?
The most efficient lyrics thatwere ever written in my mind
were johnny cash.
I mean, you can write the wholesong down and there's still
that much of the page left, butit's an absolute monster.
You can write the whole songdown and there's still that much
of the page left, but it's anabsolute monster.
Because you're mine, I walk theline Okay, that's a book in one

(29:11):
sentence, and so Aldine hasalways been deadly serious about
the craft.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
The artistry of country music.
We talked about that on anepisode.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
We're on that one.
The last time we and wasn't Idon't know what a month or two
ago, when we were writing BMG.
But country music suffers if ithas artists in it that don't
take it as seriously as we takeit.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
Well, these young writers come out.
We're out in the kitchen andthese young writers come outside
and we got David Lee Murphywith us.
So we're standing in thekitchen there and these kids
come out, these two young guysand one of the guys, and we're
just talking and they're lookingat us and they're looking at
David Lee and the dude goes.
So what do y'all do?

Speaker 4 (29:53):
David Lee Murphy's standing right next to me.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
I'm like what do we do.
I thought it was a joke.

Speaker 6 (29:57):
I'm like you'd have to know who I was, but this is
David Lee.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Murphy right here and there's a mural that's on it.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
I'm like what do y'all do?
I'm like, these kids don't know.
They haven't studied, theydidn't, they didn't grow up
listening.

Speaker 6 (30:12):
And worse than not knowing there's a.
There's a blatant for me, alack of respect in the genre.
That's just the truth.
Like these, these young artiststoday, young writers there's
some good ones, I'm not going tolump everybody into a category
and you're right, there are somereally good ones but for the
most part, what I feel is a lackof respect.
they already know everything andthey haven't done anything, and

(30:36):
that's I know for a fact.
That's not how Jason was or wewere Like.
I remember opening for you guys, when we were with Jason and
really learning Hicktown wasprobably at 50 and we're opening
and you walk off the bus, it'sJuly and you've got a full
length leather coat on.

(30:57):
And I'm saying to myself and wewatch your whole show.
We watch your whole show andwe're like, man, this, this is
what we need to be, this is whatwe are.
You know, this is how to do itand uh, unapologetic.
But but they don't have that.
They already know everything.
Now you got guys, grown men,dancing in a mirror, singing
into a hairbrush.

(31:17):
I mean, I'm it's insane.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
The art suffers yeah with that with that attitude I
mean for us.
I remember in lone star I walkedin and met don cook for the
first time and I knew his namebecause I would read the backs
of all the records.
I knew who everybody was.
And don don goes hey, nice tomeet you.
Yeah, it's gonna be great,maybe, producing this first lone
star record I'm going Don Cook,and then he goes hey guys, come

(31:42):
in here.
And here comes Larry Boone andPaul Nelson come walking in and
Chick Raines, and I went oh, Imean, I knew it, that was 19.
I was 20 years old.
I knew all those guys.
I'm like these are the namesI've been seeing on the records
that I've been studying.
So anyway, we could go on along time about that.
Oh, we could go on and on.

Speaker 5 (32:01):
Well, yeah, and just respect-wise, like Atelier said
it, and I'm still writing almostevery day and you're writing
with new people, which I like,but every time, and there's so
many people, you don't know thenames, but I Google everybody
before I write with them.

(32:25):
I want to know a little bit ofsomething.
Where are they from?
Do they have a story?
But like, but I will and I'lllook, and if they've had one
thing that I recognize, say, ohdang, it's good and and then
then I'll, then I'll close it up.
Nobody I don't think anyoneknows that I write with, that.
They don't know that I've everhad even a song recorded.
Nobody says anything.
They don't.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
They don't say, say hey, hey, man, thanks for
driving 50 minutes.
Man, I love that song you wroteback they don't say anything.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
It's a rarity, didn't ?
One of them, though, was likewant to write something.
That Brad that was a long timeago, he had like 15 Brad Paisley
number ones, and the guy wantedto write.
He didn't even know he waswriting it was like 10 years ago
.

Speaker 5 (32:53):
But yeah, he said man , I have this one idea I said
it's right down the middle forBrad Paisley Anybody?

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Oh my.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
God.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
And the other guy knew.

Speaker 5 (33:03):
The other guy says dude, you did not just say that,
right, his buddy knew.
And he goes wait, you're nicerthan I am, because I would have
said yeah, bye.
It's just kind of funny theyshould research.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
I mean times read the names, like Mark Cass Stevens.
I'm like, wow, this guy plays ahell of an acoustic.
You know Don Potter.
I'm like who's playing theacoustic on the Judds records?
Because that was the bestacoustic guitar ever, don Potter
.
I'm like I hope I get to meetDon Potter.
So then I got to meet DonPotter and I was like man, that
was my ad.
It still is.

Speaker 6 (33:37):
They don't have that, though, john yeah it sucks.
They don't have any of therespect, Like I remember
flipping around.
Lightweight, looking at thewriter and every you know.
For me, I always looked at thebass players Michael Rhodes and
you know all these Glenn Wharf,all these great guys that I
idolized, bring Nadello, oh guys, and all the players.

(34:01):
And when I got to town Istarted meeting those guys and
I'm like man, see, they don'thave that, though they don't
have that sense of like, respectto me.
I'm not.
You know what they're, you knowwhat they're missing.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
By not knowing that, they're missing the opportunity
to become inspired.
That's right that is really whatthey're missing.
It's it sure, respect and allthat.
But when you don't have a fullappreciation as to who has come
before you and how great it was,and then you get the chance to
walk in a room with them andfeel that pushback just from who
they are, and that inspires youto want to be great like them,

(34:31):
to do work as good as their work, to do work that'll last
decades, like what they did whenthey don't even know who
they're looking at.

Speaker 5 (34:38):
They don't even have the opportunity to become
inspired well, you can't beinspired when you're already
know everything.
That's a great point.
I used to walk when you'realready know everything, there's
nothing.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
You're supposed to be in awe of this person?
Yeah, because you don't knowwho the person is.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
I used to walk the halls of music and I would be
like the door jam would be hereand I would my half of my face
I'd be like this and and I'mlooking at Bob McDeal and I'm
just, oh yeah, I'm kind of likeI didn't want him to see me, but
he's got that cigar and hisfeet up on and he's probably
writing you know, baby's got ablue G-zone or something, I mean
.
But I'm just watching him likehe's just sitting there not
saying a word.

Speaker 4 (35:09):
What's he doing?

Speaker 6 (35:10):
He's got that gut string.

Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yep Single string.
I studied that stuff.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Dennis Lindy.
I was 19 years old, dennisLindy.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
I met Dennis Lindy one time.
He was a Hermon.
He never came out.
I got to meet him one time atIguanas again in the
Hillsborough Village and I wentMr Lindy, I just can't even, and
I'd already had a bunch of hitsand stuff and I was like I just
can't even know who the hellthey're looking at.
That's right, and some of it'shardwiring.
It's the way you're raised, Ithink.

Speaker 5 (35:51):
I interned for.
Reba McEntire at Starstruck foryears and Mark Sanders was
there and he was having his bigrun and everything.
And you got to go to theparties and you got to see the
platinum records, gold records,all that and I'm enamored.
So I remember one time going upto him and said said, hey, if I
, if I ever get a song recorded,I said, can I ask to have a
writing appointment with you?
Yeah, but I knew I couldn'tjust step in and write with him
for no reason.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Gotta earn that, that's right.

Speaker 5 (36:07):
But if I were to get a song recorded, would that earn
me the?

Speaker 4 (36:15):
right, I agree.
Hey guys, we're in the middleof an incredible conversation
with John Rich.
Stick with us.
We've got to get a couple ofwords from our sponsors.
We're going to be right back.

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All right, we're back.
Uh, try that.
In a small town podcast fromthe patriot mobile studios.
We have john riss today.
This is super interesting.
He's agreed to spend the nextthree hours with us.
It's so awesome a couple ofdays let's go.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
We've got to mention our new sponsor, wow.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
Try that in a small town.
Whiskey, I like that.

Speaker 6 (38:04):
For some reason, john Rich, these guys didn't even
know about this one.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
Whoever came up with that did a great job For some
reason John Rich autographed theback of this bottle.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
No, actually it is John's.

Speaker 5 (38:13):
He knows something about branding.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Oh wow, that is mine.
There you go, look at that itis, let me turn this toward my
camera here.

Speaker 6 (38:19):
We paid full price for that too.

Speaker 5 (38:20):
We did, Did you and when we say we, we mean Neil's
wife in Atlanta, neil's wife,yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:26):
She'll expense it, I'm sure.
Hey, let's pivot a little bitand maybe we'll segue with it.
I'm going to open this whileyou're talking.
Yeah, maybe pour some uh in.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
I don't know if it was 2010 or 2011.
You were on the celebrityapprentice.
2011 is when it came out, okay2011 and you won the season.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
I did, yeah, uh, is that the first time that you had
met trump?
Give us some similarities ordifferences from when that whole
experience?

Speaker 2 (38:54):
yeah, that's the first time I'd met him was I was
on the set of that.
He did not listen to countrymusic at all, probably still
doesn't.
But you know, I went on theshow to play for St Jude
Children's Research Hospital,which in country music you guys
know that's a huge deal,absolutely Trace and people like

(39:17):
that who had been on it, and Ithought I don't know what
they're doing to these peoplebehind the scenes.
But they must be torturing thembecause they don't normally act
like that in real life, likethat does not look fun.
Like why is Clint Blackscreaming at Dennis Rodgers?
Clint Black?

Speaker 6 (39:35):
stays pretty chill.
But Clint Black, I don't knowhey man.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
I said I don't know what they're doing, but I ain't
doing it.
So it was the third time theycame back to me again.
They flew to nashville.
The producers of the show saidyou've got to come do the show.
You might win the thing.
I mean you got to come do it.
I said I'm okay, I'll play forst jude children's hospital and
surely, to goodness, I can keepmyself under control if I know a
bunch of kids in memphis arewatching the episodes wow

(40:01):
because, that's what I knew itwould be surely I can keep
myself in check.
So I went, okay, I'll do it.
It's saying a lot, by the way,keeping me in check, yeah.
And so I went and did the showand uh, you know that was the
year it was gary.
Buy Meatloaf, lil Jon.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
NeNe Leakes Star.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
Jones, I mean the most insane people ever and I'm
going through it.
And I said, well, I'm going tosee if I can win it.
And so I stayed in there,stayed in there and when it was
all over I had won the wholeshow.
And I remember on that finaleit was live tv mbc there was
over 20 million people watchingthat, oh wow.

(40:43):
And Trump goes, and the winnerof celebrity apprentices you got
a good impression, by the way,because John Rich and the
confetti starts falling and Istood up and go oh my god, wow,
I can't believe it.
Trump walks over to me, putshis arm around me and we're
waving at the crowd.
He leans down in my.
He's a big guy, he's a big dudeand I'm average.

(41:06):
He's big.
He leans down and he goes.
Did you hear?
I'm thinking about running forpresident 2011.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
That's incredible.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
So he was thinking about taking on the 2012.
And I looked at him.
I said yes, sir, I did hearthat.
And he goes.
Do you think I should do it?
And I looked at him I go, mightas well, he goes.
Why the hell not right?
Why the hell not?
And he goes, great job.
And he slaps me on the chest acouple of times and walked off.

(41:36):
John, that's an incredible storyIn my ear, I'm the only one
that heard it, because all hellis breaking loose on national TV
with the confetti and thelights and everybody's screaming
and hollering.
And that's what he's saying tome.
Oh my God.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
Of course, that's what he's saying.

Speaker 5 (41:52):
Here, try my watch.
You look good on your wrist.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
He's like glad you just won the biggest show on TV,
but what about me?

Speaker 3 (41:57):
No, exactly.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
That was amazing.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
It was classic for a while Did you keep your
relationship since then with him.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Yeah.
So we text each other.
So I text him during the SuperBowl.
He hit me back.
He goes yeah, not much of agame this time.
I don't hit him with heavystuff Every now and then if
something's going on, I'll sayyou might want to look at this
situation.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
I want you to tell.
When he asked you why he'sgetting booed at his rallies,
and he asked you.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
He wanted your advice .
Yeah, so you know.
If you think about um, what isthe best way to serve someone
Well?
Is it to tell them what theywant to hear, or is it to tell
them what they need to hear,knowing they're not going to
like what you have to say?
Are you serving them well byBSing them?
No, you're not.

(42:44):
Okay, start with that.
So I'm sitting around a tablenot much bigger than this one.
It's Trump in the center whereyou're at.
I'm just to his left, herschelWalker is just to his right,
marsha Blackburn, senator BillHagerty and Lindsey Graham my
least favorite politician in theworld.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
No.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Don't mention words.
I'd rather go hang out with TimWalz.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
Oh wow, Tim, that's getting right.
I would jazz hand it up withTim Walz if you said I don't
have to sit across from LindseyGraham again.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Okay, as I said in a post on X not long after that, I
said had dinner with LindseyGraham a few months ago.
It took me a week to get thesulfur smell out of my suit
jacket.
Do you want to know what Ithink about that guy?

Speaker 4 (43:35):
Yeah, yeah, so we're sitting there at dinner.
This is awesome.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
We're sitting there and this is awesome.
We're sitting there andeverybody's eating their food
and and president trump is notpresident at this at this time
and he's talking to the senatorsand talking about really
important stuff and I'm justminding my own business going.
I don't know why, how I got inthis room.
Well, okay, I'm sitting elbowto elbow with him.
It's about an hour into dinner.
I hadn't said a word, just beenlistening and Trump gets

(44:01):
through eating and you've seenhim do this move right here,
wherever in the big boardroom,he does this.
Okay, that's what he does.
He goes.
Can I ask you a question, johnRich?
He never calls me John.
John Rich, I look at him, I go.
Yes, sir, what's the question?
He goes well, you do a lot ofbig shows.

(44:21):
You're an entertainer.
Yes, sir, you play for reallybig crowds.
I go, I do.
I play for really big crowdsfor a long time.
He goes.
Have you seen these rallies I'mdoing?
It's 30,000, 40,000 people.
I said, yeah, it's unbelievable.
I bring up the vaccine.
This is the question from thepresident united states, a guy

(44:46):
who is very proud at that momentof the fact that he was able to
stomp the gas pedal and getthat thing out, because he's
under the impression this isgoing to fix the problem
operation warp, speedp, speed,that's it.
Okay, so here's a guy who, tohis own admission, one of the
biggest egos on the earth, yeah,and he's very proud of this and

(45:08):
I respect him.
There is no limit.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
Right.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
But I'm being asked a very direct question.
And so, man, I went, looked athim and I said okay, I'm going
to tell you the answer andyou're not going to like it.
He goes okay, what's the answer?
You're going to look at me likethis.
I said let me start off bysaying this we, the American

(45:32):
people, do not trust the peoplethat you were forced to trust at
the time when this washappening.
Let's start there.
And I said by the people wedon't trust, here's who I mean
the fda, the cdc, the nih, thewho, fauci and all the rest of
them.
I said, mr president, weconsider them to be a bunch of
murderous, depopulationistpsychopaths and his reaction.

(45:59):
That's a good way to say hiseyes are he goes, unbelievable,
unbelievable he's stunned?

Speaker 3 (46:08):
no, he is stunned that.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
I said that.
I said now let me tell you whythey're booing you.
I said because all of them,including me, I me.
I said I would boo you.

Speaker 5 (46:21):
I would boo you, you did not.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
I would boo you Really If you brought that up.
And here's why.
And he's looking at me and I'mthinking to myself this is the
last time this guy's going toinvite me to anything.
He's never going to call meagain.
I'm throwing massive shade on aformer president's in his mind,
one of his biggestaccomplishments on a former
president's in his mind, one ofhis biggest accomplishments.

(46:44):
And it dawned on me nobody hadtold the man what I was telling
him right now, because they allwork for him, they all got
something to gain from him.
They're not going to tell himthis because they're not serving
him.
Well, I don't work for him andI think a lot of him and I want
him to understand the truthabout it.
So I said here's the problem,here's why they're booing you,
mr President, because everyhuman being out in that rally,

(47:05):
either themselves or they, knowsomeone directly who has been
harmed by the vaccine or haseven died from it, including me.
I said I got members of my ownfamily who were forced to take
it against their will to keeptheir jobs.
And now they've got all kindsof problems, big problems, heart
problems, lung problems.
And he's looking at me and helooks around the table and he

(47:27):
goes.
This is unbelievable.
I mean he goes.
Has anyone else heard this?
Herschel Walker?
He was running for Senate atthe time.
He goes.
Mr President, I mean down inGeorgia.
My constituents come up at myrallies and what John just said,
man, I hear it every single day.
Looks over at Marsha.

(47:48):
Marsha's sitting there, going,you know, looks around the table
, and then Lindsey Graham, who'ssitting across.
So you're here or I'm here.
I'm sorry, but you're Lindsey.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
I'm sorry, no, you're here or I'm here.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
I'm sorry, but you're lindsey, you're lindsey graham
and you're me, okay, um as I'mgoing into the part where I said
even in my own family I havelindsey graham busts in with
swishing his Chardonnay aroundand said Mr President, if you

(48:22):
listen to conspiracy theoristslike John Rich, the Democrats
are going to take credit forwhat you did and they're going
to beat you in the next electionwith it.
So I'm looking at Trump andhe's sitting over there and he
does that.
And I looked at him and I saiddo not interrupt me when I'm
speaking.
Do you understand me?

(48:43):
What?

Speaker 6 (48:46):
And he looked at me and he goes.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Well, I didn't mean to disrespect you.

Speaker 6 (48:50):
I go, yeah, but you did, oh, so Right now you look
like Wyatt Earp Trump is righthere you're.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Lindsey Graham.
Okay, I'm holding him you'reLindsey Graham.
I look at him one more time.
I go now, let me finish what Iwas saying, oh man.
And then I finished it.
Okay, trump ended that bysaying so, I guess, no more

(49:22):
vaccine talk.
I said I think that's a goodidea.
I said I think you're going tolearn a lot about it.
But yes, I think that's a goodidea, because that's the only
thing that would make us everboo you.
Mr president, you're right.
I mean, that's one of thethings I think a lot of people
didn't agree with him on.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
And it was the vaccine and him being proud of
it, and jason actually has astory.
That's one of the things that Ithink a lot of people didn't
agree with him on.
And it was the vaccine and himbeing proud of it, and jason
actually has a story that'ssimilar well, the thing about
trump and the vaccine.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Trump never mandated the vaccine.
No exactly, trump said you'reall the doctors, go figure out
how to make this yeah, right tomake this and he trusted these
people that we now all knowwe're a bunch of depopulationist
animals.
We all know that now, but henever mandated it because
mandating an experimentalmedical procedure violates the
Nuremberg Code.
It's a crime against humanitywhich I hope we see that play

(50:07):
out because people need to beheld accountable for that in a
major way.
I think it will.
So that was the story there.
So you know.
Again, he has called me sincethen.
He does text me back from theSuper Bowl.
He has invited me to more.
So I did not lose my friendshipwith him.
I think, if anything, based ona couple of things he's asked me

(50:31):
over the last year or so, heprobably appreciates the fact
that I'll give him say somethingto him that he don't really
want to hear, that A hundredpercent fact that I'll give him
say something to him that hedon't really want to hear that.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
A hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
You know.
And so if you go, if you, ifyou go, look biblically, go look
at the go, look at Daniel.
So Daniel's a HebrewNebuchadnezzar comes in, they
take over Israel, they, theytake Daniel, they castrate
Daniel, they throw him in a holewith all his friends.
And and, Daniel, you know, Imean, can you be any lower than

(51:00):
that?

Speaker 3 (51:01):
No.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
But little by little, daniel got to be known as a guy
who was directly connected tothe boss and he would say things
that would happen.
He was a prophet.
And so Nebuchadnezzar hearsabout Daniel, and Nebuchadnezzar
starts leaning on Daniel andelevating him up, up, up.
He's no longer in a hole, he'snow living in a nice spot and

(51:23):
the king is calling him everynow and then.
And the king goes to Daniel andsays I had a dream.
I can't remember what it was,but I want you to tell me what
it meant.
And he goes well, how can Itell you what it means if you
can't remember what it was?
And he goes well, that's whatthe last 10 sorcerers that I
brought up here that worked forme said, and I just cut all

(51:43):
their heads off.
So I need you to tell me whatmy dream meant, but I can't
remember it.
He goes okay, give me a coupleof days.
So Daniel goes and he asks whatwas his dream?
God tells Daniel what the dreamwas and how to interpret the
dream, and Daniel comes back.
And it's not good news forNebuchadnezzar, but Daniel told
him anyway.
And then, not long after that,nebuchadnezzar says he was out

(52:06):
in a field eating grass like ananimal for seven years and,
effectively, daniel was runningBabylon for seven years and the
only reason he got in thatposition is because he was
willing to go to the guy whocould kill him, knock him out
and tell him the truth.
So when you ask yourselfquestions in daily life, like
I've got a really good friendhere, somebody I think a lot of,

(52:27):
and a conversation needs tohappen with them because it's
the truth and they don't realizeit and you're weighing this out
Do I tell them the truth aboutthe situation?
I would want them to tell methe truth, whether I liked it or
not.
Do you do that for other peoplethat you care about, regardless
of the outcome?
That's a really important thingyou have to think about on the

(52:48):
daily that I think about.
I run into so many people and Iknow we all do, but these days
we talk about all the music andstuff and I love talking about
that.
But the stuff we're talkingabout now, those are some of the
circles I'm in for whateverreason.
God's put me in these circlesand I can sit in the room cause
I don't work for them and I cangive them these blunt answers

(53:10):
that stick I was going to askyou.

Speaker 4 (53:12):
I mean, you had become like a prominent, uh,
conservative voice and actuallyChristian and conservative voice
.
I saw your thing on tucker.
It was incredible.
When, like when, did this thinghappen?
Was it a conscious decision?

Speaker 3 (53:27):
did?
Is it something that just tellabout the wall you hit?

Speaker 4 (53:31):
yeah, or was there a moment that's like I gotta talk
about.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
So I gotta say when I was a kid, my dad's a preacher.
He's a prison preacher slashstreet preacher.
My dad preached 34 m.
He's a prison preacher, slashstreet preacher.
My dad preached 34 Mardi Grasin a row on the French Quarter
with a guitar around his neck.
Oh my God, as the parades wouldcome by and throw stuff at him
and spit at him and on and on.
34 years in a row he does this.
I had no idea.

Speaker 5 (53:52):
Oh yeah, that's my dad.
He started at 19 years old,right Like Like when he was a
kid doing it.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
It started at 19.
Yeah, he doesn't go to MardiGras in his 70s, but he's still
going after them, right?
So my dad baptized me in ahorse trough in Emerald Texas.
So all that career.
It's interesting when yourmusic is centered around rocking

(54:16):
party, rocking hard countrymusic, save Orchard.
That's the atmosphere aroundwhat you're doing.
When you walk into the room, itdoesn't matter where you are.
That is what they want.
Just like a comedian, Be funny,All right.

Speaker 4 (54:30):
Be funny.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Chris Farley right, be the funny guy on SNL.
He goes.
I don't feel like being funny.
Be funny.
Do you feel like he'sdisappointing people if he
didn't try to start crackingjokes or falling down?
Same thing happens in music andit takes a lot of artists out
because they can't separatetheir onstage persona from who
they actually are.
See, the onstage guy needs tobe 5% and the other guy's 95%.

(54:52):
Like Jason's great at that.
He gets onstage and Jason's ananimal.
He comes offstage.
He's just a regular dude, right.
That's why he's still around.
So I wasn't very good at thatfor a very long time.
What you saw on stage, that'show I was out in public.
You all have seen it.
Go google it, look it up I meandone it a few times of that, a

(55:13):
few times of this.
I mean a lot of stuff.
But right about the time I washitting 40, still, I was one
foot in, one foot out of thatwhole thing and he just finally
had enough of it and what it was.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
He being God.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Oh yeah, the boss Sitting in a hotel room.
All of a sudden I felt him exit.
I felt him leave, walk justdoor shut, because he will do
that.
If you go long enough and youdon't listen, and you will not
bend, you will not repent, youwill not turn and you belong to

(55:53):
him, he'll just walk out.
I felt it and it was like totalabandonment is what that felt
like.
It was the worst feeling I'dever had in my life, like sick
to your stomach, like I.
Whatever protection I had isgone.
I mean, I'm standing here wideopen.
Something horrible is gettingready to happen to me.
That's how I felt.
That went on for a few weeks andI read in Psalms where David

(56:17):
wrote about that.
When David you know, davidmessed up horrible many times
and God had walked out on himand he was begging him please,
please, pick up the phone, god.
He said you know, I'm nottalking to you until you.
And when David finally gotright, he said all right, I'll
walk back in.
So a few months after that hewalked back in and turned it
back on and that is when Istarted digging and reading and

(56:40):
I'm looking at my kids and mywife and I'm going okay, enough
of the nonsense.
That was a piece of my life.
It is now over.
Now, what am I going to do?
Because I got a lot of ability,I got a lot of connections, I
got things I can do and say, butI don't 100% understand what
I'm looking at.
So it's basically a reboot.
I started digging into thisstuff and realizing that that

(57:01):
preacher on TV what he just saidis not true, because it says,
right here, this, but he justsaid that, and those don't go
together.
That guy ain't telling me thetruth.
And so I start reading well, ifthat ain't true, what else?
What is, what isn't?
And you start reading throughit and you start.
I started learning all thisstuff and sitting with my dad on
the regular asking him justpages of questions Well, let's

(57:24):
dig into that and we'll go intoit, and he'll go, I go.
Wow, it was mind blowing, andso the more I got into that.
Then my music I started lookingat songs, going this needs to
be said in a song, this needs togo over here, and taking our
skills in music, blending thosetogether, getting away from the

(57:45):
record label, getting away fromthe publisher, getting away from
the whole machine of nashvilleand being able to stand on my
own and say whatever I want tosay to whoever I want to say.
Whenever I decide, I want tosay it is the position I found
myself in, which is where I amtoday and where I will remain.
I will not take a contract withanybody, under any
circumstances ever.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
What about Lindsey Graham?
Well, Kayla's Lindsey.

Speaker 6 (58:08):
Graham though.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
People like Lindsey Graham.
It's a good example thatChristians are not supposed to
be a bunch of weak-kneed,spineless, silent fence riders.
Wow, A a man which you're not.

Speaker 5 (58:23):
Can we pivot to Sean Combs, Because you mentioned
your kids right.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (58:28):
And so it's a song that you I don't think you've.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
I have not put it out yet.

Speaker 5 (58:32):
They've been read we know a little bit of the lyrics.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
Yeah, if you're okay talking about it, it's called
the Righteous Hunter.

Speaker 5 (58:37):
Yeah, and it was preach on that just for a second
, just because you're checkingyour curious.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
So, sean Combs?
So in my mind, america willnever get back on God's good
side until we eradicate peoplewhose feet are swift to shed
innocent blood, which, inProverbs 6, is one of the things
that says people.
People.
That says God hates.

(59:03):
See one thing, preachers.
Preach is God loves everybody.
Everybody's welcome.
God loves everybody.
It does not say that anywherein the Bible, matter of fact, it
says quite the opposite.
In Proverbs 6, it says thefirst thing God hates those
whose feet are swift to shedinnocent blood, meaning kids.
So as long as this countryallows kids to be targeted,

(59:31):
abused, trafficked, murdered, aslong as that continues, america
will never straighten out, nordo we deserve to straighten out
if you're going to allow that tocontinue.
So I saw a video of Sean Combsstanding on a stage in front of
all the spotlights some awardshow or something and he looks

(59:53):
into the camera with thisdemonic look.
You can just see the demon inhis eyes.
He says I own your kids.
I own them.
I take their souls, I determinewhat they listen to, what they
wear, where, where they go, whothey hang out with.
I own your kids.
Like that, I went.

(01:00:15):
Who's going to say something torebut that?
Preachers?
Where are you at Country musicartists?
Where are you at Christiansingers?
Where are you all at?
Anybody going to say anything?
No, at anybody out.
Anybody gonna say anything.
No, nobody's gonna say anything.
I said, okay, so I'm gonna saysomething about it.

(01:00:38):
So I went upstairs, pulled outa guitar and I started writing
this song called the righteoushunter, because if you come from
my kids, I'll kill every lastone of you.
You better put one rightbetween my eyes or I'll kill
every last one of you.
You better put one rightbetween my eyes or you're all
going to die, all of you.
That'd be a hell of a way todie.
I'd be perfectly happy dyingthat way.
And the arrogant, satanic sideof this industry has no concept

(01:01:04):
of that.
They hate kids.
They wish they would never beborn in the first place and if
they are born, they're going totry to grab them and twist them
into their nasty, evil, wickedintent.
And what does God say aboutpeople that do that?
He says he hates them.
So you run into scripture thatsays pray for your enemies.
You guys know that scripture.
You're supposed to pray foryour enemies.
I went to my dad one time.

(01:01:26):
I said dad, I got a realproblem with that verse.
He goes yeah, what's yourproblem with it?
I go how am I supposed to prayfor a pedophile?
He goes oh, no, no, no, no,hang on.
He goes, sit down.
He said it says pray for yourenemies.
It does not say pray for God'senemies.
He said there is a delineationthere, son.

(01:01:47):
I said okay.
He said let's go into Psalms andread what David said.
And David said I hate yourenemies.
With a perfect hatred Meaning.
We are supposed to be on theoffense on behalf of our daddy,
because they're on offense onbehalf of their daddy and our

(01:02:09):
daddy created their daddy andcan wipe him out by snapping his
fingers.
So when you see the enemy andyou know they're an enemy of God
, like Sean Combs and peoplethat do stuff like that, and
you're a real Christian youbetter pick up everything you've
got and hurl it at them, lightit on fire first, then hurl it
at them and run straight at them, straight at them, and I don't

(01:02:31):
see people taking that attitudein this country, especially not
many christians that'll do it.
There's probably atheists outthere that'll charge them harder
than the christians will.
So this song, the righteoushonor I have not released it.
Yet I am debating how to handlethis because it is one of the
most jarring lyrics.
I think it is the most jarringlyric I've ever had anything to

(01:02:55):
do with.
People run around this townundercover looking for a soul to
take, but they better stay awayfrom the righteous hunter or
hell is all they'll pay, becauseI can see around the corner and
I know you're coming.
If you had any sense you'd run,but you ain't got a clue what a

(01:03:17):
daddy will do.
You better give your soul toJesus while I get my gun.
That's the first half.
So I'm sitting on that rightnow Trying to think about what's
a video look like to that?
How you know how are peoplegoing to take this when they
hear that it is true?

(01:03:38):
It's a true statement If youcome from my kids, give your
soul to Jesus before I kill you,cause that's that's what's
going to happen, and so I knowthat's an intense thing to talk
about.

Speaker 5 (01:03:49):
I mean that's the's going to happen and so I know
that's an intense thing to talkabout.
I mean that's the actual thinghappening in our country.
Yeah, and when you're you know,you said that you had wrote
that song in anger, in whichwe're always trying to draw
common entities and we have alot in common with you, or fan
fans of you and everything youdo.
But but Aldeans, try that insmall town.
It was created in anger,different but the same, because

(01:04:10):
we were tired of people gettinghurt, punched for no reason,
little ladies getting knockedout on the sidewalk or hitting a
baseball bat on the sidewalk.
So we were angry that thingswere happening like that in
America.
So that's why we wrote it andAldean put it out, because it's
in line exactly with what he did.

Speaker 3 (01:04:26):
So when you said I wrote that song in anger,
because I think that's the onlysong I think I've been a part of
that ever started in in angerbecause you love people.

Speaker 5 (01:04:38):
But you're not, that's right.
You're angry that people areinnocent, people are getting
hurt, yeah, so you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
I mean, how often do we sit down and write songs out
of anger?

Speaker 5 (01:04:43):
right, I know hardly ever, and that's why it just
struck.
I just stopped.

Speaker 6 (01:04:47):
But boy, when you do we talk about your kids, your
children.
I don't know anyone thatwouldn't feel that way.
When you talk about yourchildren, people coming from
your children and that, and makeno mistake, that's what they're
doing.
Yeah and uh, if you don't feelthat way about children, then I
don't have, you shouldn't havechildren.

(01:05:07):
I think you're in the wrongspot.
Yes, you know, but I think thatsong needs to be heard.
My opinion, uh, just because ithit just you saying that I got
goosebumps.
Just you, well up with tears,singing about your kids, and all
you do as a parent, all you do,is figure out how to keep them

(01:05:28):
safe, correct, number one job,and that's all we do.
Then people should hear that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:35):
It ain't just Sean Combs coming after me.
We're getting bombarded fromall angles.

Speaker 6 (01:05:39):
It's the system in general, it's everything.
So I think, by all means, Ihope everyone gets to hear that,
because it reiterates why, asfathers, we exist and as a
father why exist is for mychildren.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
So that's good feedback.

Speaker 6 (01:05:58):
You're the first guy I've ever if you don't like
hearing that, then maybe youshouldn't have had kids.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Well, you're the first man I've sat across to
give me any feedback on it,because I haven't released it.
The only people that have heardit are family members.

Speaker 5 (01:06:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
You know, I did put the lyrics up just to see what
people would say.
But yeah, the look on your faceright now is exactly the look
you ought to have on your face.

Speaker 6 (01:06:18):
If you don't forget.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
And the enemy doesn't understand who they are
actually messing with.
They don't have a touchstone intheir own lives to know that
level that a regular man orwoman will go to to protect the
kids.
You know why?
Because they hate kids.
They try not to have them inthe first place, and if they do,
they're going to try to takethem away from you and screw

(01:06:39):
them up.
They have no love for themwhatsoever, so they don't even
know what that feeling is.
It's kind of like the newcountry singer or songwriter
that doesn't know.
He just walked into the roomwith Bobby.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Braddock.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
He doesn't even know what he doesn't know because he
doesn't even realize who that is.
They don't understand the menand women of this country.
When you step across the linefor our kids, the game is over
for you at that point.
And I just took that that Combswould stand there and say that
and nobody.
That wasn't like breaking news,that every pastor in the world
was coming at that as hard asthey could and I didn't see

(01:07:14):
anybody.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
That's the disappointing part about it too.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
Yeah.
Why does it fall to the countrysinger-songwriter Right?

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
But you know what it's true If that's what it is,
then that's what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
That's right I've also said this and I believe
this is absolutely factual thatGod only opens doors for people
who have enough nerve to runthrough the door, because you
don't know what's on the otherside of the door.
Could be a pot of gold on theother side of the door, could be
a flame door, could be a pitthere's no telling.
Could be full of fishhooks Idon't know what's over there.

(01:07:45):
So when he kicks a big dooropen like when Trump asked me
about the vaccine, that was himkicking a door open for me,
because Trump needed to hearthat.
He desperately needed to hearthat Door gets kicked open.
I go okay, I'm going to tellyou the answer and I'm looking
up going.
What in the world?
is about to happen, but you gotto take it and I hope more

(01:08:09):
people come on on.
What are we afraid of?
Yeah, you got nothing to reallybe afraid of.
Worst thing they can do is killyour meat suit and then you get
released and you're gone anywaythat's right, but I think you
know listen to your passionabout what you wrote.

Speaker 6 (01:08:26):
I think god laid that on you to do that, so that's
why no one else did it probablyright you know, I mean because
that's that's what he does.
It's there's no rhyme or reasonin our minds or why, but like
listening to what you said youwere supposed to do that you
know, we're created in the imageof God.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
Okay, I was looking at that a few months ago, going
so I am created in the image ofGod himself.
That means every characteristicI have about myself, he has
that characteristic.
His is just perfect, mine isnot perfect, and I thought so.
He has anger, he has it.
He also has humor.

(01:09:09):
And I thought I he has anger,he has it, he also has humor.
And I thought I wonder what hefinds funny, I wonder what
cracks him up.
You know there's anotherscripture that says pray without
ceasing, for this is the willof God, pray without ceasing.
Well, how are you going to dothat?
You're just reading that on aone-dimensional level.
You would think so I'm supposedto be on my knees all day long,
praying every single day.
Would think so I'm supposed tobe on my knees all day long,

(01:09:31):
praying every single day.
No, the way I view that is yougot a cb radio in your truck and
, instead of just turning it onwhen you want to talk, turn it
on, turn the volume all the wayup and just start driving.
And what'll happen?
Uh, every few minutes or everyfew hours, you'll hear a trucker
come through and start sayingsomething and you're listening
to what he's saying.
That's like like that's God asthe CB.
He's the one you just got toleave it on.
Just wake up in the morning,turn it on, leave it on till you

(01:09:54):
go to sleep and he will tellyou things.
He'll send you songs, he'lltell you all kinds of stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:10:00):
Well, and thankfully, you know, you have the color in
our lives that we have and thecolor in your life that you had
in that, that moment when yousaid, hey, things need to change
a little bit, because if youwouldn't have a platform, let's
say, you would have came outwith revelation.
You know that great song thatgreat epic video and the battle,
the battle and everything.
If you had came out withrevelation, instead of save a

(01:10:24):
horse, ride a cowboy nobody knowwho you are.
Correct, right, right, you, you.
Everybody does know who you are.
And now you, you do that, andthen millions of people hear it,
that need to hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
it's just amazing to me to always I had that
realization not longer than acouple of years ago that, yes,
he allowed me to be in thecountry music situation to build
that, build an audience, but toget good at being a songwriter
and being able to take somethingand push it, but when he was
ready for me to be done withthat part of it and I wasn't

(01:10:54):
ready to be done with it yetthat's when he had enough and
walked out and when I said, okay, if I now yield.
And then he came back and thenit was like here's what I want
you to do now.
And that was 11 years ago whenI started slowly walking my way
into where we are today.
What happens 10 years from now,I have no idea, but we need to

(01:11:16):
all be ready for whatever it is.
We are the, you know, our daddy,my daddy, can beat up your
daddy, remember when we used tosay that my daddy can beat up
your daddy, well, our daddy canbeat up their daddy.
We should never be afraid ofthem at all.

Speaker 4 (01:11:29):
Amen Golly.
John this is one of thosethings.
I wish we could go another houror so.
We're so appreciative of yourtime.
You know, when we started thispodcast, we didn't actually we
might not still know what thehell we're doing.

Speaker 6 (01:11:45):
I think that's obvious, thank you, and the
grass is green and the sky isblue.
Boom, and that's obvious, thankyou.

Speaker 5 (01:11:51):
and the grass is green, the sky is blue, boom and
that's it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:54):
But I'll say this uh, we did want to highlight people
that you know stood up for whatthey believe in, often against
the mainstream.
Stand their ground, haveconviction, and you are, like
exhibit a of that.
We're so thankful for you justas a person and, of course,
sharing your story with us.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
We're very thankful for you well, it's been fun to
sit with you and we can alwayscome back and do it again okay,
one last thing, one last memoryI want to.

Speaker 6 (01:12:24):
I want to thank you specifically for helping us and
jason get where we are today.
I remember specifically cmaawards 0506 I can't remember
which, which one it was.
We played hicktown.
Uh, first time we ever didanything on television, play
hicktown.
We finish it and we look outand and you and big kenny are

(01:12:46):
standing up and I'll neverforget it.
I remember looking at the crowdand that from then till now
like thank you and thanks forcoming on today, because this
was a highlight for all of ustoday.
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:12:59):
Yeah, you bet man and the countless amount of money,
the folds of honor that you'veyeah, 100 raised the
scholarships for for those kidsthat you do so much good.
We're just're just honored andvery thankful.

Speaker 2 (01:13:10):
We've all got a gas pedal, stomp on it.

Speaker 5 (01:13:13):
Yeah, yes, that's the way I look at it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
It's been an honor sitting with you guys, man.
What a table of talent this is.
So anytime, man, I'll come backanytime, yes.

Speaker 5 (01:13:21):
Appreciate the conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
Appreciate you, brother, you bet Yep.

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