Songwriter, producer and lead singer and founding member of Better Than Ezra, Kevin Griffin (@kevinmgriffin) is now adding author to his long list of accomplishments. His first book ‘The Greatest Song: Spark Creativity, Ignite Your Career and Transform Your Life’ is out today (April 25) and he shares with Bobby how the many ups and downs of his career inspired it. Kevin also talks about the many songs he's written like Howie Days "Collide," Train's "I Got You," and Sugarland's "Stuck Like Glue," and explains why radio stations refused to play it. He also shares how he started the band Better Than Ezra and how he made their first album for only $5,000! Kevin also shares stories with Bobby of when Peyton Manning would bring his Colts teammates to his concerts, why he started and co-founded The Pilgrimage Festival, and more!
*The Pilgrimage Festival is happening September 23 & 24, 2023. Tickets are available here: https://pilgrimagefestival.com/tickets
**Kevin Griffin's book ‘The Greatest Song: Spark Creativity, Ignite Your Career and Transform Your Life’ is out now! https://www.kevingriffinmusic.com/the-greatest-song
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Our old drummer was playing with Sugarland, Travis McNab, and
I called up Travis. I was like, hey, man, give
me Christian's phone number. And I called Christian. I was like,
are you guys still working on your sugar Land now?
He goes, yet, dude, we're recording Tuesday and we need
a single, and I was like, I have your single.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to episode three four. I like this one a lot.
It's Kevin Griffin, the lead singer of Better Than Ezra.
He's so much more than that now, but that's what
I knew him for. That's what I fell in love
with him for back in the day because it was
one of my favorite bands and I used to watch
a lot of their shows. But they had a massive
hit with the song here Good.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It's good.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Loved desperately wanting Extraordinary with a jam the mom. But
he's also like he had that version of his career,
(01:06):
and then he's written a bunch of massive songs like
Stuck like Glue, Sugarland. You know this is like the
eleventh most downloaded country song of all time. Yeah, crazy man,
they made a little bit off that, dang. He also,
I don't know if he knew this, but he wrote,
Howie Day Colyde, you not Clyde. I don't sing I
look that good, but he wrote that too. I got it.
(01:28):
Like he's done his thing, he wrote for other people.
He's got a new book out called The Greatest Song
Spark Creativity, Ignite your career, and transform your life. And
it's out now. So it's not about songwriting. It's about
just his story and music ish but how you can
kind of incorporate that into your life. He has an
audiobook but I hope you check it out. And he's
(01:49):
doing book tour date. It's in La Chicago. He's touring
with Train. He actually wrote a song for Trained. I
think more than one, but that I Got You song
is one he wrote. He's the Pilgrimage music and cultural
festival guy. Everything's linked in the episode, but we get
into all that, but really it's about better than Nazar
for me, yeah, honest, And we talked about the book
(02:09):
for sure, but it's about it's about better than Zazare
you know? That's really what it's about. Kevin Griffin. He's
got a new book. I hope you check it out.
All the links again, just hit that little deal or
tells you all that info, and let's get going. We're
almost four hundred, so close, almost four hundred doing them
one a week. Basically, Yeah, it's easy to get to
four hundred. It's not even easy. It's easier to get
(02:31):
four hundred if you're doing three, four or five episodes
a week, if that's like your deal. But we've been
doing this for thirty eight years. I just looked.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, we started twenty seventeen in a closet.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
We started nineteen eighty six. All right, thank you, and
follow Kevin at Kevin M. Griffin. Let's go. It's always
weird interviewing people that one that you're a fan of
and then two that you're trying to encapsulate a bit
of their whole career to fifty minutes, right, So just
(03:02):
follow me.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I'm with you, and let's see where we go. I'm
with you, pad On because it's.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
You wrote a book, and first of all, I know
the struggle of writing a book, and I didn't know
what I was doing. I mean, I had no idea
what I was doing when I wrote my first book,
Need to I, And it's kind of how I've done
everything is I wasn't really scared to do it, But
once I got it, I was like, I wish I'd
been scared to do this because only crap.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, it's it's a whole new kind of it's a
whole new world and the discipline and what I've kind
of did. I wrote. I wrote a book in two
thousand and one. I finished a book and I started
having it edited. It was pure fiction, and then The
Hangover came out and it was so much better than
my book, So I got kind of discouraged.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Was it similar.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, it was about guys and a bachelor party gone wrong,
but this went in Tampa. This was in Tampa, but
there's was Vegas. It was much it was and it
was no Zach Allifanaka's character, no baby, no sunglasses. So
I was like, damn it, and I shelved it. But
what I did with that book is I kind of
I have I read a lot, so I have books
on my I'm just gonna I'm just going to use
(04:07):
this shape, this form, and I kind of did it
with this book too. I was like, you know, there's
just just with songwriting, a lot of times you're like
I love that song, I love how they build it,
that construction. I'm just going to emulate that structure. And
I did that writing the book. It helped me so fiction.
Jake Stark not a real person, not a real person,
but I mean it's he's all of us, but it's you.
(04:27):
He can't help it.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Be Let me walk through some stuff and you just
tell me how it how what the analogy is with you,
the parallel with you. Yeah, because some of it really
just screamed Kevin to me.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
It does, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Number one hit songwriter Jake Stark, who'd had a respectable
career as a recording artist in the early nineteen nineties. Hmmm, Okay,
So I mean this is right on the nose.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Oh yeah, okay, purposely, purposely, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Just make sure. So let's just take that point. You
kind of dive into it a little bit better than
Ezra your band. Obviously that I was a massive fan of.
I went to so many shows in high school and
even into college because you guys were not only big
nationally but from Arkansas so regionally.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Dude, we're sec brothers. Yes, So that you're a hog,
I'm a Tiger.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I'd see in Fayetteville, I'd see it in Little.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Rock Jr's lot. Did you ever see us in Jarr's
light bulb clubs? Yes?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh my, I'd see it in Shreveport. And so to me,
when you guys were just the biggest, coolest thing, I
was already like, I don't know, I've been a fan
of them already since I was like nine.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
And when that because you didn't better than Ezra, wasn't
your move to La was it?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Well? Ezra was already you know, a band. We got
together my junior year at LSU and we were playing
like frat parties and all the SEC schools. And then
after a year, after I graduated in nineteen ninety, we
kind of took a hiatus. We were a four piece
and one of the members died in the band, a
good friend, and it was I was like, wow, I
need a break. And I lived in Aspen for a year.
(05:58):
I was an Aprey ski guy, no music. I was
playing music, but I was playing covers. Yeahs were we
took a hiatus and then I moved out to LA
and I was living in West Hollywood and somebody the
old bar in Baton Rouge said, Hey, would you guys
want to come back and play show, and six months
had gone by since you know, the death of our
band member. And after six months, I was like, let's
(06:19):
try it, and we suddenly became a three piece and
but yeah, so that's so LA. And then I was like, guys,
I'm living in LA. And they all moved out to
LA and we were ballets and bartenders and we made
that first album for five thousand dollars in an apartment
on South Flora Street in West Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Did you guys all move back Southeast?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, So we made the record, did everything ourselves, and
we're like, Okay, we don't want to be another LA band.
We have this great fan base and following in the Southeast,
and we moved back. We moved to Baton Rouge for
about six months, and then we moved to the Garden
District in New Orleans. And then we were putting our
albums and every record store in the Southeast and going
(07:03):
by like you know, wums at Oxford, Mississippi, and in
Tuscaloosa and Athens, Georgia, really just like hawking it. And
that's when it kind of changed for us.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Did you guys have a first single when you were
or what was the first single that really wasn't a
record company putting out a single.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
The first song that ever got interests other than our
RAM covers was a song called CDU, and CDU back
in the day stood for Chemical Dependency Unit and it
was just it was this really great rock song and
it was the first song, real rock song we did
that didn't again, didn't sound like RAM. And that was
the first song as a songwriter that people were like, hey, man,
(07:41):
could you what was that song? Blah blah blah ced.
I was like, well, that's one of ours, and that
was like the aha moment. I was like, I need
to write more like that. And that was a cassette.
It was our first cassette, culed surprise and local, and
we would go to, you know, college stations and they
would play that cassette. And then in nineteen ninety one
was when I wrote Good and we started playing Good
and in the whole wahaw thing was supposed to be
(08:04):
a lyric, but we played Did you ever go to W. C.
Don's in Jackson, Mississippi.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
No.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
It was a double wide trailer that was a club
and it was run by the There was a mental
institution and some of the people who worked there or
were maybe patience. They ran the door. It was a
very interesting place and that was the first place we
ever played good and that kind of was the DNA
became the DNA for the band.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So when you said it was supposed to be a lyric,
was that just a melody place holder?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, so I was. I wrote the song that morning.
We had a show that night in Jackson and we
showed the song to the band. It was four court.
It's four chords, you know, and the idea. I was
listening to a lot of Pixies at the time, and
you know, and it's it's no coincidence that the Pixies
their documentary is called Loud, Quiet Loud, and it's all
just about hitting a distortion pedal, you know, the same
chords and that's how you do the dynamics. And so
(08:55):
I played it was like, we need to play this tonight.
So the wah ah was supposed to. I didn't know
what it was going to be lyric. And then people
came up like, hey man, I like that want aw
song and I was like, huh, And here I am.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Thirty years later, what do you think in your mind?
Waha was supposed to? You know, obviously don't know what
the what was the intention of whatever that lyric was
supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
When I've had to write it, it's I write it
out aha, kind of like remembering, like ah, it was
good living in with you. Aha, you know, like a
positive memory. Yeah, like like just kind of remembers. But
you know, a lot of my songs that have done
well have that because of that song, have a lot
of you know, the kind of something that's not a lyric,
you know. And I found early on when I've played
(09:40):
later songs, when I've played songs that don't have lyrics,
that Toddler's Like if I can play a song for
a Toddler and they and they bounce their head up
and down, I'm like, I'm cooking with gas. Yes, find
me a Toddler.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Play the track when you guys had Good and you
that feel different than Sorry?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
We just I just touched your foot underneath the table.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I apologies, I got news for you. That wasn't my flight.
WHOA did did it feel different with Good?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
It did? Man, I did. There was just something about
that song. I think most songwriters have that. That the
first one that connects where you finally okay, what's my voice?
Because at first I was we were are songs. The
songs I was writing sounded like the Smiths and ra
Em and we're a lot softer. Then I got into
Huskerdo and I had a summer as a camp counselor
(10:28):
in North Carolina, and I discovered the Replacements and it
was just that hard edged rock thing, and I started
writing songs like that. A song called Circle of Friends,
which is on that first cassette. It was later on
the Empire record soundtrack if people remember that movie, that
Lived Tyler movie. But so that was the so good though,
was the kind of distillation of of like what was
(10:49):
working live and that kind of just but interesting about
that song is that it was pasted. We played so
many showcases, you know, in these sterile rehearsal rooms in
LA and New Orleans and stuff for label heads, and
we'd be flown out to New York and people listen
to and they go, hmmm, I don't hear it, you know,
(11:10):
and they would they would went and sign us. You know.
Five years later, those same label heads that passed on
that song were telling their new artists, you need to
write a song like good and we have friends in
different bands. They're like, man, you won't believe this.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
But you know, you mentioned like five times when I
think of Rim. Obviously Michael Slide was a very it
was just extremely dynamic anyway, but also regionally, like I
think Athens, Georgia, Rim like that, that's kind of where
that started for them, right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Oh, yeah, there's such a I'm really feel fortunate and
grateful that I was able to be in the band
that toured that southeastern circuit of all the college towns
which had all these great college bars. And it goes
back to Rim and the B fifty two's and Driving
and Crying and the Conelles, but even before that, it
goes to Sam and Dave and the Alman brothers and
(12:00):
Sam Cook. You know, it was this circuit of of
of towns you played and you had to be you
learn very very quickly if you're going to be successful
and asked back, you had to entertain people. And there
were bands like Ram and the Connells and a band
called dash Rip Rock.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Do you remember dash Rip Rock? Now?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
They were a cowpunk band from New Orleans that just
were so great live. And I was like, that's what
I got to do. I can't sit up and be cool.
I've got to entertain and it has to be a hyperbole,
you know, you got to put it out there. You
know that, you know. And so it was a real
great training ground. And there's not as many bands do
that because a lot of bands, I'll work with our
work with the right, with a lot of young bands,
(12:36):
and they they're very confident, which is you got to be.
But there's no replacing getting out there and grinding it,
rising and grinding. That's yeah, that's there. I'm to you
if there's no there's no replacing you know, those things
that happen on stage that you're not ready for. The
rapport you get with your band members, how to write
(12:56):
a set list, the EBB and flow, you know, here's
the hit and how do we string that together? And
I was able to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
What about the dynamic within the group because you took
some time off and now you're back, And I guess
when you took some time off you never planned to
be back. It feels like when you guys split up,
it wasn't we're gone forever. But it doesn't seem like
there was a let's be sure to get back together.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, I mean, I think we just needed time then,
just to kind of process when you go through a
tragedy and something draumatic like that for everybody, you know, gosh,
our band. We're going to keep doing it until people
are really like, man, they really need to stop.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Did you guys decide you were going to do that though?
Like all right, we're back, Like because again you can
get back in and put your toe in the water
and see when were you Like, we're gonna recommit. We
got to move back. We're going to make this record.
You guys are coming out to LA.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I think that when we played our first show and
I went from playing a telecaster and a twin reverb vamp,
I went and got a Less Paul and a four
by twelve cabinet with you know, twenty five what greenback
senate and a JCMA one hundred Marshall head. And I
was like, I've got to be the guitarist. And I
was able to do it. I had to step up
my game and become a better guitarist. But when people reacted,
(14:05):
we played Murphy's Bar and Grill this this Seminal Place
and Murphy's and Baton Rous rather, but every band from
the nineties and eighties would play college bands and in
the crowd reacted and there was so much love, and
we're like, man, we got to do this as a
tribute to Joel who had passed away, and so we
knew that moment, you know, and then we're just being friends.
(14:26):
You know, we needed the connection.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Jake Stark also was twenty one years old when he
was signed to his first record deal. Who had a
debut album that went platinum and another that went gold.
I mean, how close is that?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Well, Jake, but Jake, I was twenty eight see see
and Jake Stark was number forty seven and People's Most Beautiful,
fifty most Beautiful People. I was never in People magazine.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
You weren't.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I was never.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I Here's what I thought when I read that, I thought,
would that be great? I thought he was in People
magazines fifty most Beautiful People. I never knew that about you.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
But you know that I wasn't playgirl. That playgirl in
nineteen ninety six had an interview.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
It was just no, it was like, Wien are in there?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I was not.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
It was not so That's girl, you know, sure it was.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
It was It was not Wiener. No, it was the
thing like the hot bands, Hot band Alert and I
was there and the Wieners.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Did you ever open for RM? We did not, but
Jake Stark did.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Jake Stark did. Jake Stark opened for Lannel Ritchie Here's Oasis, yes,
and he opened for R. E. M at Royal Albert Hall.
And that's where Sir Daniel Smith Daniels did you? Did
you know? I haven't listened to your audiobook? You you
read your audio? Your book? Right?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yes? So I've got two like adult books, not pornography books,
kid books, kid book yeah, no Wiener no play girls.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah you went you look, you went there. Let's just
say you went for Wiers.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I did. I did, And I was like, where is it?
But I heard you did accents in yours?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I do.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
There are different uh musicians one iss from Barbados. There's
a guy named Shane Sawyer and he dogs like Sam
Elliott brother. My ego was not.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
That was pretty good.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, that's pretty good. See. So I do that and
I had a blast doing it. I'm doing a girl
named Darren Delaney from Montana. I'm doing a girl. I
do girls. Yeah, no, you have to.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
It's not that it's that you know anyone that has
just raised my voice.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I just raised my voice. Now you put me on
the spot. Brilliant, brilliant, Bobby. Perhaps we should get some
tea late.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
That's the better I thought it would be. Yes, Yeah,
Jack can raise it. If you touch my leg, it
gets higher. I'm gonna let it happen. You get back
to Sam Elliott Boye. Jake Stark, who his own recording
career began to Falter, started writing for Garth Brooks, The
Chicks and Madonna.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Now this makes a lot of sense to me, not
the Falter part because I didn't see that. But Mike
and I talked to it before you got here about
the songs that you've written in the country space. So
was he do you write some big Garth Brooks hits
or what Jake Stark?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Jake did?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, I never did. Yeah, I know you did it.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Jake wrote some Garth Brooks songs, some Madonna's songs.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, for in the country world here stuck like glue.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Stuck like glue.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Do you know the song that which has uh well,
which is wah? Yeah, And I was going to get
to that. There's a Toddler Toddler sound there.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Oh, my god. Look, most songwris like, if you have
an idea that a toddler laughs utter dances to, you're
gonna have a hit.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I did that song with them at a festival once
and they were like, hey, come do the rap part,
and I was like, uh, it was like six hours notice,
maybe less than that, right, And I was like, you know,
I know the song, I don't really know know the song. Yeah,
And I said, I don't know that I know all
the rap part, right, because most of time, when you're
just singing along with it, you just kind of do
(17:57):
it and it sounds fun and you move on. I said,
but I'm gonna be critiqu this is gonna be recorded
for it like it was a television asterity. Yeah, so
I'm trying to remember every word everywhere of that rap part.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And which you didn't really need to your your your
freestyle probably would have been better.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I forgot most of it once I got up there,
and so that's what I did. And then I sound
like I was just trying to be creole. It just
wasn't good in any way whatsoever. But I remember doing
that song going, I did not know this when you
guys wrote that song and you wrote that rap part.
Did you write it as part of the song then
did it come about later?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So the interesting thing is h and just to the
rap to your point, when that rap that was like controversial,
there were stations that were cutting it out, doing their
own edits. And then of course you know five years later,
you know you're you're hearing you know, Nelly with fgl
and stuff. So it's not you know, I guess they
had to break the mold. But also Jennifer was rap,
was the one rapping, and she did get kind of
(18:52):
a creole. He had to come to the a d
very shaggy. So I'm the one of it.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
You call my number, I make cleo, I am here
and we do it.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
One time. That was a fuge so little one time
he wrote that in the same spot there, So that
the way the song was written is it was twenty
ten and I was writing with this guy named Shy
Carter who's had a lot of hits and you may
have worked with him. He's an artist as well, and
we we we really didn't know what to write. And
at the time, Hay Soul's sister was big for training
(19:26):
and I'm yours. Jason Moras so I started playing this
guitar part, which is the song, and two hours later
we had nothing. Then we went to get some coffee,
went down to Intelligencia and Silver Lake, and we came
back and I started playing it again, and as Shi went, Yo, Kevin,
I'm gonna go out and get some herbal inspiration. So
Shy went out and got stoned, and he came back in.
He's like, man, put some auto tune on my track.
(19:48):
So I put autotune and everybody knows what autotune. As
you put it was the key of g put it
in and he started humming thirty seconds. If you've ever
written or worked with someone who smokes a lot of weed,
you have a very small window to capture the juice.
And it's brother, it's amazing. It's like Heaven sent genius.
But if you don't hit record, you're gonna lose it.
But I hit record and he went and I was like,
(20:10):
oh my god, and I had to record it. We
looped it, and that's us doing the that's us doing that.
So we we wrote a verse and a chorus, and
it never happens this way in the music business. It
was a Thursday. Our old drummer was playing with sugar
Land Travis McNab and I called Travis. I was like, hey, man,
give me Christian's phone number. And I called Christian. I
(20:30):
was like, are you guys still working on your sugar
Land al And he goes, yet, dude, we're recording Tuesday
and we need a single. And I was like, I
have your single and I sent him, Shy, I've got
the demo version I sent Shy. We sent him like
a forty five second verse chorus of the song. Sent
it to them and like, we're going to record this
on Tuesday, not completed though yet not completed. Yes, So
(20:53):
they wrote the second verse God and the rap and
we were off to the races.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
And what did you think of the rap when you
heard it? And what'd you think of why they put
it in, how they put it in.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
I totally dug it, man. You know, I always believe that,
you know, those doing things that aren't expector maybe considered
the norm, ultimately you know history, You're on the right
side of history. And it was a thing. You know,
people talked about it, and now it seems tame by comparison,
right when you hear production and stuff these days.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
But it was.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I was. Look, I was super grateful, you know, to
have them cut it.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. Wow, and we're
back on the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Why write a book and why write it with a
fictional character saying nonfiction things?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Well, you know, I started doing this. They say that,
you know, nothing good happens in a bar after two am,
especially new Orn Steer and MANI gras This one time though,
I was, I had written in the Hermi Parade and
I was having a jambalaya fn M Patio Bar uptown
New One. Have you ever been there? Now? It's a
crazy place. It gets going around three am. But I
(22:08):
ran into this buddy who is an entrepreneur guy in Dallas,
and he was with a group of friends. They were
YPO guys, and YPO is Young Presidents Organization. It's kind
of like a fraternity for for very successful men and women.
And so he goes, hey, man, Malcolm Gladwell just spoke
for us here in New Orleans. You want to speak
for us in Dallas in three and three years? And
I was three years three months and I was like, yeah,
(22:31):
I finished my jambalaya. I forgot about it. Two months
later it's like, hey, so here's the day in Dallas.
I had to think of something to speak about. And
around about the same time, I was just working with
younger artists and getting asked like, hey, how have you
stayed successful in this business that's notoriously fickle? And I
was and I realized, you know, so there was that
(22:53):
going on. But also I had to do a speech
and I was and I thought of, like these things
that I've had to do, like wow, there actually are tools,
these practices I've kind of put into my life that
have allowed me to be successful. So I kind of
codified them in a speech that took off from doing
ypos to Live Nation, which witch to Google, Nike, Disney,
and about four years ago I was like, I want
(23:14):
to put it into a book, but I didn't want
it to be something just really kind of boring. And
I've always I love, like I said earlier, I love reading,
and I love stories, and I've always liked business parables,
things like who moved my cheese, rich Dad, poor Dad,
the Celestine Prophecy, you know, the go giver, things like that,
And I was like, you know, what would excite me
(23:35):
to write would be to write a story about a songwriter.
And of course there's liberal parts of my life, but look,
I've never met a twenty eight year old British billionaire
Sir Daniel Smith Daniels and all the different songwriters and
all the different crazy things that happened to him, you know,
it ever happened to me. And that's really And I
wanted it to be something that you know, so many
(23:56):
books when I you know, like often like you'll be
like growing online and it says do these five things
to live to one hundred and you click on it,
but then you start scrolling and after about ten minutes
you're looking at the ginners. You know, it's clickbait. I
like things that are actually every once in a while,
though you click and it actually to do those five things.
(24:16):
And I wanted the book to be that I wanted
to people. I wanted to be short. I wanted people
to read it and actually have like, oh these are
the five things. I can actually put handles on those
ideas and take them home with me, and.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Targeting, like who's your target audience.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I'm targeting people in business, people in careers, people who
have been not just music, not just music. And what
I found the reason The speech took off for people
as they as that, oh wow, what I realized before
I did that first speech and why it's kind of
it continues like I was I was just in speaking
(24:50):
to I was speaking to six hundred people for a
GM conference last week in San Antonio. The week before that,
I was in San Juan, Puerto Rico talking to a
ship Bob, which is a bit omnifulfillment company. What I
realized is that, oh, the same things I do in
music to stay inspired and competitive and successful in connecting
those dots from having a hit song and taking it
to the right person is is the same in every business.
(25:13):
And the things I do to stay successful in business
also have helped me in my relationships with my family
and my wife and stuff. And so, but I realized
that people love music. It's sexy, you know that, we
know being in music, there's nothing sexy at all about it,
Like Jesus Christ, let's let the facade remain. And so
(25:33):
music was like this great catalyst to get these ideas
across that everybody can use. And that was really what like.
And then being a songwriter, I realized, as you know,
like when you have an idea to write a book,
Getting yourself up every day to write those two hundred
and fifty words or five hundred words and committing to
it was so hard. But because I'd been a songwriter
and seeing that something as silly as a song idea
(25:55):
like want aw it was good could turn into a song,
an album, hit, a life changing thing, I knew that
you just got to continue. I knew this. I knew
the idea for the book was good because of the
speech was successful. So I just knew I needed to
write it. And then then I got, you know, the
developmental editor helping me and learning, you know, and and
being open to like, hey, this is I'm a I'm
(26:16):
a baby in the woods. I don't know what I'm doing.
It was really cool and it's been a really great endeavor.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Are you killing it on the speaking circuit because you're
you're mentioning a lot of places and there's a big.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
It's pretty cool. Yeah, Yeah, it's been great. It's it's
been like that.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I'm doing a car. I just in a couple of months,
I'm doing a car. We sorry, how you can move?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
That's fine?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
And it's a six figure speaking deal and it's just
those are just normally that much. But you're listening to
all these are you? Is that how you're making most
of your money now? Speaking bro?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I am a uh no, you know I do well
on the speaking things. I don't have six figures, but
I'm not you know, I don't have your reach and.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Your Yeah, but you have the stop pay No no, no,
that's not true at all. You have your star, but
you're mentioning all these massive It's been really cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So I do about seven a year, and and it's
all word of mouth. Like I'm I'm represented by William
Morris and CA with two different music projects. Ezra's with
William Morse, but this is fun. C AA does Ezra
ray Hart the band I have with mar McGrath and
Emerson Hart, and that's been turned into its own thing.
(27:26):
But what I found is part of the speaking agency
of W and Me. William Morris is Harry Walker, and
I'm a speaker there with Malcolm Gladwell and all those
other illuminatis. You're probably are you one of those guys? No,
not in that grip, But they don't give me anything.
They've got me one gig. What it's really been about
is word of mouth playing shows, somebody reaching out and
(27:47):
DM and me and stuff like that are just people
who were have kind of segued into that business of booking,
you know, conferences and stuff. But it's so much fun.
What I do is I go that the speech is
like I play, It's the story of my life and
the story arc of being signed, being dropped, reinventing myself,
and the songs I played the hit songs throughout zo
(28:10):
one man show. It's a one man show, and at
the end of it, we write a song together. The
last thing in the book and also in the speech,
is dare to be stupid and the ideas that you'll
never come up with anything truly groundbreaking unless you're prepared
to fall in your face. So let's be stupid together.
And I use the example of like J. T. Harding,
who's one of the greatest best songwriters in Nashville. He
has no filter, you know. The people who come up
(28:30):
with crazy ideas and aren't afraid of looking silly are
the ones that succeed. So then we write a song together,
and a week later everyone gets a fully produced demo
with me and thirty people or three thousand people.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
What do you mean you write a song together. You're
doing a spit. Yeah, they're just shouting things.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
So like, for example, going to San Antonio, I flew
in from Salt Lake City and I had an idea
for a song. I was like, okay, the desert. Let's
write a song called Desert Stars. So I come up
with the verse and a course, and I kind of
know the verse lyrics okay, and I get up there.
I'm like, hey, guys, I know it's ten am in
the morning, but we're gonna write a song. Here's the idea.
(29:08):
It's called Desert Stars. We're in the hill country or
San Antonio, and here's a here's a first verse. Of course,
I think it's kind of dope. Let me know what
you think. And I already have a beat on my
pro tools and I hit play, and the beats playing,
I sing a long. I go, what do y'all think?
Pretty pretty good? And somebody might say say tequila. I'm like,
that's yes, dare to be stupid, and you know, we
say tequila, and then we write the second verse together.
(29:29):
And it's usually just four lines and people and everybody
on their table has a sharpiees and pencils and papers,
and there's always somebody without fail who comes up with
this great line, you know. And then we're off to
the races and someone's my secretary or a man or
a woman. They write out the lyrics. Then I sing
the song and then everybody gets up. I have a
microphone in front of the stage. All the guys get up.
I'm like, give me a I'm gonna go hey. Oh
(29:51):
they do hazen' HOAt and I'm like, what about like
desert stars? Was I like all the guys under the desert,
under the desert stars. And They'll start doing louder louder,
dare to be stupid louder. And then I'm like, yes,
I've got you. Now give me some hazing hoes. And
the girls come up, they go whoo, and then you know,
and then the guys will say hey, Sanya, Rita, and
(30:14):
then we just then I just a few days after
I come back home, I put it in the song.
You know, pro tools, cut and pace and they have
a song. It's really fun.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Now if one of those goes viral and then that exists,
what's the split on the publish? Check this out?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
So we had a Jake Owen's hold on a YPO
song I can't remember the name of it. It was
me and about forty two people songwriters.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, is that what I was listed at?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That's funny, I know, right.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Wow, we interrupt this interview to bring you a message
from our sponsor. Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
So the book has a lot of your successful, famous
people on it that are also a standing and going, hey,
this guy's good. We trust him, we would I look
at it. Peyton Manning's on the car. Yeah, I mean
I'm not really, I'm on this.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Well you're no, you're You're in the biggest spot. You're
in sixteen point front and everybody else.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
I knew, I knew you were going to do it.
You should have made me a fake should have made
me a fake version. So you do you know Peyton Manning?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I do know Peyton?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
How do you know?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Obviously he's New Orleans, New Orleans guys. So since you
know there's three brothers, there's everybody knows Cooper now, right.
Cooper was always the funniest one, and he apparently was like,
it's a great athlete. But then he got this kind
of stenosis of the spine that kind of messed his
arm up. Cooper was a big Ezra fan and I
think he turned Peyton and Eli onto the band, and
(31:51):
man they would come to They would come to aller
Tipotina shows in New Orleans, but more fun when we
played Indianapolis, Peyton would come bring his whole offensive line,
you know. And every time we did this time of year,
will there's a football in the air, he would throw
the football out in New York City at Irving Plaza.
Eli would get up. There was one awesome time where
Peyton and Eli got on State at Irving Closet in
(32:14):
New York and throw the football out. And we've just
been tight with those guys, you know, Like we did
Red Rocks with bare naked ladies last year and Peyton
got out through the ball.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You know, it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
There's such and they're like organic fans. They're so there's
so they know all the songs, they can sing along
and they're so good. But they're also you know those guys,
I mean, they also will screw with you. Like last time,
right before I'm fired up, it's my first time to
play Red Rocks and Peyton's like, yo, Kevin, you sure
you want to wear that shirt out on state giving
(32:44):
me shit, Give me shit.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
That was nice of them to take the front page
of the book though, you know it was really good.
Guy doesn't have enough.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
They paid me really well, yeah, to put because he's like, listen,
we need a little boost to a sagging career. Could
you could he be the guy on the front you.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Mentioned do you have allergies at all? I'm gonna take
an allergy pill?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
No, do it?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
But that's what's up.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
No do it? Adderall is a slippery slope.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
You know, I have to take I have to take
allergy medicine probably from now until August every day. Oh
really yeah? But then I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
I sometimes I'll take like a claton or something.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
They give me an EpiPen too, and it's never been
so so you've got a bad It's never been. I've
never had it to the point of having to use it.
But for some reason, every time they're like, do you
have your EpiPen just in case?
Speaker 1 (33:32):
I'm like, for what, well, are you like allergic to
hornets and yellow jackets?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Not that I know of.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
They did. We could try to. We could just do
a test.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
What's that I want to do with that crap? We
just get a whole bunch of hornets and yellow jacket.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Walk there, we can find a yellow jacket's nest.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I did that test where they put like a scratcher
back with all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
They still do that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I walked out and they did like twenty seven things
on me, and I walked out and they were like, okay,
you're you're allergic to I don't remember I should. It's
like rag times three, Chinese maple sauce, all these things.
I don't even know if they're hearing sauce. And they're like,
and you need an EpiPen.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Justine party with some Chinese maple sauce at Yeah. Yeah,
it was up for three days in Vegas.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Well, pardon my my allergy pill. They're partly taking that.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Oh good brother.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
You mentioned bear naked ladies.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Why does Ed hate me?
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
What you know?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I've written like all the singles on their past four
or five records with with D We had the best time.
Ed Robertson would love Bobby.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Ed Robertson wouldn't acknowledge anything that I would send him
on social media. I would message him. I would write
in his comments everything.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Should we just should we just text him right now.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
And I was like, because I am the biggest BNL fan.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
They are such an amazing band, and I get to
write the songs with Ed that I could never write
with any other artist. You know, we we we a
song called duct Tape Heart, you know, writing about duct tape,
our love of Dug say. But you know, we just
get to you know, we get to write this. It's
just we have so much fun. He's one of the smartest,
(35:02):
most He's actually maddeningly talented. He'll kick your ass in cornhole.
He's a pilot. He wrote this is interesting. This is
a cool kind of peek behind the curtain. The song
that's been most successful for him is the big bang Thing.
And he said, I'm not going to let him repeat
this because he's going to do the Bobby Casks. He's
(35:22):
going to be myth dude, he is. He is a fan,
trusts me. He doesn't know yet, but he Okay, no,
he doesn't know. But he was, like, he told me
about writing the song. He goes, Kevin, it's a hit
song every quarter. This song is a world worldwide. You know,
(35:43):
it's in syndication all over the world in eighty different languages.
You know, and that song. It's nuts that people who
make the most in the songwriting business are the television writers,
television composers. I was hit this thing right before the pandemic.
It was the b ANDI Songwriters Fest and kawhi, you've
done done that. And I was there. I mean, Chris
kus Starffin was there, was there, Willie Neilson. I had
(36:05):
to sing wah ah, I did good a private show
right in front of Chris Kustofferson and Willie Nelson. But
it was all these like Miranda Lambert was there, Maren Morris.
But the guy Mike O'Neil from BMI said, he said,
you know, the most successful guy in this room, and
I was like, no, he goes right over there. I flew.
I flew over here from LA on his G five.
Mike Post who wrote the theme from Taxi, Hill Street Blues,
(36:29):
all Rockford Files to this day, he writes, you know,
hits theme songs and stuff. That's where the really stupid
money is. That's like the biggest BMI and ASCAT writers
really every year are always going to be Trent Resner
or you know, all these big television and film writers.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Like Resnor for like the Facebook movie.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
What did I just I just saw.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
What was it?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
The Blinding Light? It was a new Sam Mendes film
that they did Atticus and and Trent did.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Were you a nine inch Nell's guy? It wasn't my
thing me either. I was now that I'm past it
and it's not as scary to me and as dark,
and I kind of understand it for what it was
now better in my rear view. Then I appreciated it
then because it was too much for.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
It was too much, it was too relentless. This was interesting.
So when I when they were having their biggest success,
like Closer and all those songs, they lived in New Orleans.
Trent lived like five blocks for me. We both lived
in the Garden District and he had this converted funeral
home on Magazine Street was called Hot Snake Studio that
was converted into a studio used.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
To be a funeral home. Mortuary music that has.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Been all and like I went in there one night.
I kind of invited. I met this friend and we
was like, let's go to Trent Rezors party?
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Was that partially for effect I did?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
It was so dark and may Marilyn Manson was there,
and I was like, you know, what man to work
this hard, to be this dark and scary. It just
seems exhausting to me. And I'm just not that guy.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
But do you think that the whole by the funeral
home for us? Dude, like you could have buy any building, right,
But do you think because that was his thing or
was it so much as real thing that that was
his thing?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I think he was. I think when you hear interviews,
he was in a really dark place. You know, I
don't think he was living the healthiest life. I'll let
him elaborate on that. But I did go to his house.
I went to his house. I was gonna move and
I went and looked at his house when I was
on the market. In the gardener John Goodman from Roseanne
Fame ended up buying that house. Who's I think they
(38:29):
repainted New Orleans guy.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
My suggests he's the part of his brand.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
He is married to Annabeth Goodman, who is a good
friend and she and she owns Pippin Lane, which is
the coolest little children's store. Magazine Street.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
You mentioned some of your songs a minute ago Peytonny
would come out, so that same song, Yeah, I'm here.
I've told the story like five times, but you'd let
people come out.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
And play it. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
And I was like, oh, want to come up. I
was as a kid teenager. He said come up. So
I got on stage and I took the guitar. I
played left handed. I don't play right handed, and I
don't know how to play it. And you say get
off stage.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I said, I love you, but you have to go
off the stage now with love with love you scary?
Was this the moment?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I remember? It was my moment to get up with
my favorite band and I was like, I know the
song and I get up there handed and there was
no left handed guitar. Yeah. I felt like somebody who
didn't have But clearly.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
It didn't stop you. Maybe maybe that was the moment,
Maybe that more public shaming was the thing that you
needed every day. It was like, I'll show Kevin Griffin.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I really was going to get is best version you
ever heard?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
When your books came out and they were New York
Times best sellers, like I Show Kevin Griffin The Son
of a Bitch.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
So good is a big hit for you guys? How
big did it get during that first single for Better
than Azra? Did you get lost in it at all.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Uh, you know what, I think if I would have
gotten lost if it had happened. When I wrote it,
it was five years old, like was you know, twenty
two when it came out, but we had been kind
of I was twenty seven, I think, maybe about to
turn twenty eight. That we lied about our age. Like
if you go on Facebook, it says I'm two years
younger than I actually am. It says I'm fifty four,
(40:14):
but I'm fifty six. I can say that now it
sounds pathetic, but at the time I was like, I'm
taking it now, leave it. Leave it. Yeah, But so
you wanted to be younger. You felt like, well, it's
actually comical to think. But we weren't signed. We were
twenty seven and Ban's younger than this. We're getting signed.
We're like, we gotta lie about our Hey, what is
your age? And we said, but two years younger. It
sounds silly. But now my buddies when it's my birthday
(40:36):
and you know, I have friends from college or whatever
live all over the country, maybe in Des Moines, it'll
be a slow news day and it says today, you know,
people born new Jimmy Carter's at October first, Kevin Griffin
from Better Than Nazara fifty four years old. My friends
will just text me a screenshet. They're like like, you're pathetic.
I'm like, ah, fifty four years old.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
After good but good, I didn't lose it. Go after
it runs its course as a single and you're going
to the next What was the second single?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
In the Blood? Okay, in the Blood and it was
shot by uh By Frank Cockinfell's who's done some of
the most iconic covers of Rolling Stone magazine. He's a
photographer first that did videos and that was his first,
one of his first videos. The third single was Rosalia.
This is how crazy how in the nineties how much
(41:22):
money the labels were making. Most most videos cost about
two fifty three hundred k. You know back then now
you get a great video for like five K, but
they were two fifty three hundred k with huge production.
We shot the first video by a guy named Joseph
Coltice who did a lot of nine inch nails covers.
(41:42):
The label didn't like it, so they were like, no,
we need we want another one, so we flew to
La Frank. They paid for yeah, two hundred and fifty thousand,
and they were just like, naw, yeah, we don't like it,
but we paid for half of that. Yeah, so we
were yeah, was recoupable. I mean we were naive. So
we fly to La and the producer of the Rosalia
(42:02):
the second version, version two, was like, so we want someone.
Frank wants this young actress to be This was a
girl named Rebecca. She was from New Zealand as a
new actress. She's in a new Robert Rodriguez film called Desperado.
Her name is Selma Hyak. I think you'll find it
quite suitable to be Rosalia and I was like, great,
(42:23):
so Rosalie. If you go online, Rosalia is played by
Selma Hyak. But the best part about shooting the video,
all the b roll with a Selma was shot Apart
from us. We did our live show, but we had
the rap party at the Ivy on Robertson. It's a
little you know, it's a restaurant, kind of snooty, but
(42:46):
they have amazing chop salads. So we were all there
was a rap party. Everybody was drinking the Ivy gimlets,
which were super strong, and at the end of the
dinner's like fourteen of us. Everyone's having a great time
getting their drink on. Sama goes like, does anybody, Uh yeah,
does anybody want to go salsa dancing? And nobody said anything,
and I was like, I do so Selmahayak and I
(43:10):
got in her car and we went to East La
and she taught me how to Susa dance and we
kind of had fun and hung out for a couple
of weeks and she was super cool. That's awesome. Yeah,
what happened in the first video though? Oh so the
first video I have no idea, and so we were
five hundred and fifty thousand dollars in and the Selma
Hyak video I think got played thirteen times on MTV.
Well when you half a million.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Dollars and where is the first like could you? I mean,
if you had, I don't even would it have been
like an archive at the label? You know?
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Maybe probably is the Joseph Colties. It was super dark.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
That would be really cool, be cool to release.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
I mean, I mean, like, are like the Desperately Wanting
video off of the Friction Baby album that was done
by Nigel Dick who did Uh What's the Story Morning
Glory and Uh Wonderwall I mean it's a really cool
I mean, we did some cool videos. I mean we
always aspired to be Radiohead or something like that, who
always did cool videos, you know, but we weren't that lucky.
Some of our videos were silly.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
When you're when good crushes and that's on pop radio.
And then even Rosalie I would hear that more on
rock radio or atern because it was more alt. I'd
hear that alter like the Edge in Dallas. And it
wasn't until probably Desperately Wanting that I feel like again
I started to hear it back on the pop radio again.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
You know who was big for us was nine in
nine X in Atlanta, Leslie Fram you know, she was
on the morning show there. Yeah, they really broke Jimmy
Jimmy Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
A born Dave jim Burn. They were like morning show forever.
They're back doing it now.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
They're back doing I'm thinking I'm doing it next week.
Really think I'm to do eight am Desperately Wanting. You know,
looking back, the first single from the Friction Baby album
was King of New Orleans. In hindsight, it should have
been Desperately Wanting. That was the song that reacted and
I think that album, I think the Friction Baby album
would have done, you know, done as many copies as deluxe,
(45:03):
you know, but as it was, it went platinum barely.
But uh yeah, it was desperately just kind of just
resonated with people.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, that was like that one felt to me like
a fun dark if that's possible.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
You know. Da it was the nineties. In the nineties,
you know, you had a lot of times I'll be
playing now you know, we play, We'll do like a
corporate event or now you know what. The band's been
around long enough to where we will do privates and
it's first somebody's fiftieth birthday party, right, and we're playing
songs and it gets desperately the warning and it's like
when they pumped out you guts field, you full of
(45:40):
those pills, everybody.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Party by it was still such a strong build up.
I remember running through the wet grass fall and so yeah,
it was like fun dark.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
It was fun dark. Yeah. And in the nineties though,
you were it was you, it was you were encouraged.
You just wrote heavy lyrics. It needed to have meat
and it had to be something, and so many of
those early songs for me were really. Uh, we're heavy.
But some of my favorite songs, like when you pull
back the layers, like some of some big pop songs,
(46:10):
they kind of have dark lyrics.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
M yeah, uh extraordinary, A bit different though, Yes, that
one felt completely completely different. I played that. I was
just doing pop radio at the time, Like on the radio,
I played that one that out. That was the Orange
I'm just that was the closer record. Yeah, and that
was what was that like? Orange? It was kind of
yellow than cold severely really yeah, but it was orangeist right,
(46:34):
show me about here?
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Okay, good Orange?
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yeah, thank you? But that song was was up.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
I'm gonna I'm gonna make fun of your color blindness
and the fact that you were left handed and I
sent you back into the audience. I've got to make
that up to you.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Well you kind of did. You played our big charity
I know, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Would you see you let me perform for the first
time on the rhyme stage. I've never performed there before
really or after? Well, you walk up, see what to
do for you on stage? Do what you did for
me on a stage? You know, exactly the opposite. This
is gonna be some color crap. Why don't at Pilgrimage festival.
You on the stage with the left handed see my
wife gifts and now we're going to get you great. No, no,
this is it.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
I'm not going to run a great song. No, no, no,
this is about you unless you were Unless you turn
me off and you just let me fake it.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
You're good.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
No, I'm okay. But there are so many people there
that want to want to see you guys do that
song because that is a cult that's a cult song.
It's not my favorite songs from you guys, and it
was never a bag song.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Yeah, people love that song. I wish it would have
been a single. I wish we'd recorded it better that
That whole album was as Azer's biggest, you know album
it always will be. It was recorded on a half
inch analog tape, not even like professional grade, and when
you when you a be it next to some other music,
it's sound you can tell sonically it's not there. But
(47:46):
I wish that song this time of year would have
been a single. But this time of year, you're on stage,
if you're in town.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
What I was just talk about pilrimage because we can
use this also for what we always do every year
with pilgrimage. We can talk about it, and I can
take it and place it on the radio. Gives well,
so what do we got here about? We got about
seven eight minutes. So let's first of all to conclude
about the book. It is not just a songwriter's book.
It is a book generally about I'm not even going
(48:15):
to say success, because my second book, Fail Until You Don't,
is not about success. It's about hopefully the end product
is some sort of success, but it's about what it
takes and a lot of the things that you have
to take in order to get there. And it feels
like this book is kind of that too, where you
kind of give freedom to experiment, to fall, be foolish
(48:36):
because it takes that. It takes you trying things to
be able to actually find them exactly just and trying
them sometimes can result and things that are embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Or what I found is that is that everything I
always thought the way I was in business and success
and the way I wasn't my family and we're different,
and I realized at some point it is all connected.
And if I conduct myself the way the way I
should and creatively in songwriting and business and do use
(49:05):
those tools like listening and contrary action and checking my
ego in my personal life. Everything got gets amazing and
I'm so much more successful. And that's what this book
is about. That is all connected and that was the
big AHA moment for me.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Okay, so everybody get the book. It's called The Greatest Song.
Spark creativity, ignite your career, and transform your life. We
talked about it before Kevin got here, but there it
is again. Now from that we got a few minutes
Pilgrimage Festival. You guys hit a home run with Zach
Bryan booking.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Dude, is that one of.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Those where you're like, we knew he was going to
be awesome, but we didn't know he was.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Going to be this boy. We had no idea. I mean,
I mean, the Zach Bryan phenomenon is gray and as
a producer you're always hoping you get that booking before
they get big. Look the first year Pilgrimage twenty fifteen,
the third the third act on the stage on our
second st age was Chris Stapleton, you know, and then
(50:03):
fast forward six years later we're paying him a lot
more money to headline. You always want to do that.
Last year we had John Batisse before all the Grammy nominations,
but that but Zach is a whole his whole, next
level and it's a phenomenon. And when we were able
to lock him down, we were very excited.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
The Lumineers, oh.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Who are so great live, They're insane live.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
So when you booked that far out, Zach Brian feels like,
because I assume you have booked this a year in advance, right,
yeah close? Yeah, yeah, I mean Zach Bryan feels like
a little riskier than the Lumineers because the Zach Bryan
monster that it is now, although it was growing and
it was eating, it wasn't as big. So I felt
like that was a little bit of a gamble.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Zach kind of happened. We're one of the Now every
festival is getting them, it's getting him to headline. But
US and Railbird were the first festivals were like, you know,
this guy is a headline it's a headline artist. And
we could already, you know, we already had a ear
to the ground and we were already already starting to
see the phenomenon and what he was doing on his
(51:04):
own shows at Red Rock and stuff. But still it
was a leap, but you know, we have it's a
great group of people, and we had a few people like,
trust me, this is a great this is a great
get for this festival. It's going to be huge. And
he's such a cool dude as well.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
We had a deal when I was in Austin and
we had to book this show. We were doing something
called a second Chance prom which back in the day
was cool but now everybody's done it one hundred times.
But they had We had ten thousand bucks to book
an artists, right, and so we booked this this new
artist who had a single, who had just come out,
and we spent all ten thousand dollars on her. And
she was a little centric, but I was I felt
(51:38):
pretty good that she would at least have some success.
Six months later, whenever the show happened, it was Lady Gaga.
And by the time she came to play this venue
that we had reserved for eight hundred people, she was
so freaking big that there were more people outside trying
to get into the more inside the place.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
That's amazing as lighting in a bottle. And remember that
I was in this weekend. I was with my wife
in Mexico City, it was her birthday. Went for the
first time and we heard the first Lady Gaga single.
Remember that song? You remember what it was?
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Just answer? Yeah, that was the one.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yeah, oh yeah, it's such a good song.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
I hadn't heard.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
I was like, oh my god. I remember I was
living in La at Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf. When
I heard the song of the first time, I was like,
this is a good song.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Another act that you have that I love just a
there are so many acts. This is like f for me,
Like I love the Black Crows. Adam can play my show.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
I've never seen them live.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
They're great, They're still great, and they have so many songs, right,
that's what it's about, the songs. But the Head and
the Heart, like, that's where it is for me. That's
what I listened to when it's like, what do you
listen to for fun? The Head and the Heart.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Head in the Heart is a band. I love that
first record. You know, they've gotten better and better every
album and this new album and now they're kind of
writing with the writing with Justin Tranter and I think
Ashley Gorley may have written one of the big songs
on this new album. They're just getting smarter and better.
They're selling out big replaced. They did a send Empathy
(53:01):
to last year, sold it out. I've kind of gotten
to be friends with their manager, a guy named Matt
Shay who also manages Charlie Worsham. A great guy and
so just kind of starting to know the dynamics of
that band. I'm so fired up to have them on.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Haley Witters, who I love, is playing the festival.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
That was one of the artists. I was like, we
have to get Hailey Witterers, you know, I think she
feels just kind of a country or Casey Musgraves to me.
You know, authentic isn't the right word, because Casey's super authentic.
She's a badass. But there's something about Haley that she's
got a little bit of Casey bet her own thing too.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
This festival has really grown and I feel like now
it has a cleat in the ground. Yeah, where anytime
you launch any sort of festival, any sort of series
of shows, it's just like you're one, it's a risk.
We're gonna lose money too, you know. It's that. But
I feel like now you guys have something where people
expect it and they expect it to be good. Yeah,
do you feel the same.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
I do feel the same.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
You know.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
It's man, everything we thought, well, isn't going to be
true that more experienced people told us turned out to
be true. They're like, you're gonna you're gonna lose your ass.
Year one. You're gonna lose your ass. Year two, we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
we're gonna do fine, and then you lose your ass.
Or one guy from from uh who does acl and
and Laala in Chicago, he said, he was like, what
(54:18):
is the minimum amount of tickets? You think you'll sell
them the first year and we're like twelve thousand. He said,
you'll sell six thousand tickets.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
And he was right, you know.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
But we made it through, and you know, year three
we had justin Timberlake and that was a big game changer.
And then the next year we get rained out, you know,
and then we didn't realize that when you rain out,
people might love your vessel, but they're the next year
they're gonna be like, I'm gonna take a break. You know.
We had food fighters and the killers that year, you know,
but a lot of people didn't come because they'd been
told to go home. When the sky was blue. Of
(54:48):
course an hour later it was you know, de lugeon
sixty nine lightning strikes owned the property. But uh, now,
though it does feel like we're kind of just hit
our stride, we know we're doing We've got it so
tweaked and so dialed in, you know, from just the
GA experience to the VIP it's just a blast to do.
And it's just turned into a thing, you know, and
(55:10):
when I go like, man, I never knew doing this
that I was going to be on a first name
basis with the Mayor of Franklin and all the aldermen
and having mint tea and cucumber sandwiches with aldermen and stuff.
But it's really been cool. And I have to do
all that stuff. It's kind of being the face of
the festival, but I kind of really get into it.
And it also has it also has a purpose. You know,
(55:33):
there's we support like five or six different charities in Franklin.
Fifty cents of every ticket goes to music heres Actually
now it's gets and gifts, but uh yeah, so's it's cool.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
Pilgrimage Music and Cultural Festival back in Franklin, September twenty
third and twenty fourth. Get your tickets at Pilgrimage Festival
dot com. You got the book, You're still on the road,
you're speaking, you got Pilgrimage Festival.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
I mean, you know what I'm trying to do?
Speaker 2 (55:57):
What what are you trying to do?
Speaker 1 (55:58):
Be Bobby Bemp.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
You don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
I want to be an older, more haggard Bobby.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
You don't want to be that.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
I want to be a more world weary, shaded Bobby Bones.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
And you're gonna let Ed know that he doesn't hate me.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
Dude's video here, This is gonna this is gonna be
recorded me.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
I'm making a video for Fred. All right ready here Ed, Hello,
it's Bobby Bones. You probably have no idea. I am
sitting here with Kevin, longtime friends. I mean, he admires
me so much, you probably he mean, it's just weird
how much he admires me.
Speaker 1 (56:25):
I yes, thank Heed, listen to this man.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
And so I've been trying to get a hold of
you for like basically years. I'd write comments on your Instagram,
I'd send you DMS, I tweet, and I just felt
very ignored. And I was doing an interview about songwriting
a wildly popular podcast. It's millions. You have millions and
millions a month. And I was like, why does ED
hate me? And Kevin gave me five reasons why you
hated me, But I just wanted to say, please, don't anymore.
(56:47):
Would love to meet you in person. And I love
bn L for life. That's what I am, all right, see, buddy, Yeah,
let me know what he Let me know what he says.
We're having up do go to all that stuff. The
book which we talked about at the beginning. Will put
in the notes to tell you M much best. We'll
put in the notes to And I just admire you
for dude.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
Let me let me say, and all honestly you've been
You've been so kind always from the from the get
go and watching your career and all the hustle you do,
it's just badass man. And you're you're a homeboy. You're
you're you're an Arkansas guy. I'm a Monro guy. You
know we still listen to k TV Channel ten peckin Bluff, Arkansas.
(57:24):
Did you ever do that?
Speaker 3 (57:25):
No?
Speaker 2 (57:25):
No, no, I knew it, but yes, okay, you need
get my point. Yes I do say we had the
same we were experiencing the same things exame. We were
looking at the same star, having the same dream stars.
That's right, all right there he is Kevin Graff and Kevin. Thanks,
Boddy Brother, thank you. Thanks for listening to the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
Share this episode with a friend because they don't pay
to advertise us.
Our old drummer was playing with Sugarland, Travis McNab, and
I called up Travis. I was like, hey, man, give
me Christian's phone number. And I called Christian. I was like,
are you guys still working on your sugar Land now?
He goes, yet, dude, we're recording Tuesday and we need
a single, and I was like, I have your single.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to episode three four. I like this one a lot.
It's Kevin Griffin, the lead singer of Better Than Ezra.
He's so much more than that now, but that's what
I knew him for. That's what I fell in love
with him for back in the day because it was
one of my favorite bands and I used to watch
a lot of their shows. But they had a massive
hit with the song here Good.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It's good.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Loved desperately wanting Extraordinary with a jam the mom. But
he's also like he had that version of his career,
(01:06):
and then he's written a bunch of massive songs like
Stuck like Glue, Sugarland. You know this is like the
eleventh most downloaded country song of all time. Yeah, crazy man,
they made a little bit off that, dang. He also,
I don't know if he knew this, but he wrote,
Howie Day Colyde, you not Clyde. I don't sing I
look that good, but he wrote that too. I got it.
(01:28):
Like he's done his thing, he wrote for other people.
He's got a new book out called The Greatest Song
Spark Creativity, Ignite your career, and transform your life. And
it's out now. So it's not about songwriting. It's about
just his story and music ish but how you can
kind of incorporate that into your life. He has an
audiobook but I hope you check it out. And he's
(01:49):
doing book tour date. It's in La Chicago. He's touring
with Train. He actually wrote a song for Trained. I
think more than one, but that I Got You song
is one he wrote. He's the Pilgrimage music and cultural
festival guy. Everything's linked in the episode, but we get
into all that, but really it's about better than Nazar
for me, yeah, honest, And we talked about the book
(02:09):
for sure, but it's about it's about better than Zazare
you know? That's really what it's about. Kevin Griffin. He's
got a new book. I hope you check it out.
All the links again, just hit that little deal or
tells you all that info, and let's get going. We're
almost four hundred, so close, almost four hundred doing them
one a week. Basically, Yeah, it's easy to get to
four hundred. It's not even easy. It's easier to get
(02:31):
four hundred if you're doing three, four or five episodes
a week, if that's like your deal. But we've been
doing this for thirty eight years. I just looked.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, we started twenty seventeen in a closet.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
We started nineteen eighty six. All right, thank you, and
follow Kevin at Kevin M. Griffin. Let's go. It's always
weird interviewing people that one that you're a fan of
and then two that you're trying to encapsulate a bit
of their whole career to fifty minutes, right, So just
(03:02):
follow me.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I'm with you, and let's see where we go. I'm
with you, pad On because it's.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
You wrote a book, and first of all, I know
the struggle of writing a book, and I didn't know
what I was doing. I mean, I had no idea
what I was doing when I wrote my first book,
Need to I, And it's kind of how I've done
everything is I wasn't really scared to do it, But
once I got it, I was like, I wish I'd
been scared to do this because only crap.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, it's it's a whole new kind of it's a
whole new world and the discipline and what I've kind
of did. I wrote. I wrote a book in two
thousand and one. I finished a book and I started
having it edited. It was pure fiction, and then The
Hangover came out and it was so much better than
my book, So I got kind of discouraged.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Was it similar.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, it was about guys and a bachelor party gone wrong,
but this went in Tampa. This was in Tampa, but
there's was Vegas. It was much it was and it
was no Zach Allifanaka's character, no baby, no sunglasses. So
I was like, damn it, and I shelved it. But
what I did with that book is I kind of
I have I read a lot, so I have books
on my I'm just gonna I'm just going to use
(04:07):
this shape, this form, and I kind of did it
with this book too. I was like, you know, there's
just just with songwriting, a lot of times you're like
I love that song, I love how they build it,
that construction. I'm just going to emulate that structure. And
I did that writing the book. It helped me so fiction.
Jake Stark not a real person, not a real person,
but I mean it's he's all of us, but it's you.
(04:27):
He can't help it.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Be Let me walk through some stuff and you just
tell me how it how what the analogy is with you,
the parallel with you. Yeah, because some of it really
just screamed Kevin to me.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
It does, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Number one hit songwriter Jake Stark, who'd had a respectable
career as a recording artist in the early nineteen nineties. Hmmm, Okay,
So I mean this is right on the nose.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Oh yeah, okay, purposely, purposely, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Just make sure. So let's just take that point. You
kind of dive into it a little bit better than
Ezra your band. Obviously that I was a massive fan of.
I went to so many shows in high school and
even into college because you guys were not only big
nationally but from Arkansas so regionally.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Dude, we're sec brothers. Yes, So that you're a hog,
I'm a Tiger.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I'd see in Fayetteville, I'd see it in Little.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Rock Jr's lot. Did you ever see us in Jarr's
light bulb clubs? Yes?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh my, I'd see it in Shreveport. And so to me,
when you guys were just the biggest, coolest thing, I
was already like, I don't know, I've been a fan
of them already since I was like nine.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
And when that because you didn't better than Ezra, wasn't
your move to La was it?
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Well? Ezra was already you know, a band. We got
together my junior year at LSU and we were playing
like frat parties and all the SEC schools. And then
after a year, after I graduated in nineteen ninety, we
kind of took a hiatus. We were a four piece
and one of the members died in the band, a
good friend, and it was I was like, wow, I
need a break. And I lived in Aspen for a year.
(05:58):
I was an Aprey ski guy, no music. I was
playing music, but I was playing covers. Yeahs were we
took a hiatus and then I moved out to LA
and I was living in West Hollywood and somebody the
old bar in Baton Rouge said, Hey, would you guys
want to come back and play show, and six months
had gone by since you know, the death of our
band member. And after six months, I was like, let's
(06:19):
try it, and we suddenly became a three piece and
but yeah, so that's so LA. And then I was like, guys,
I'm living in LA. And they all moved out to
LA and we were ballets and bartenders and we made
that first album for five thousand dollars in an apartment
on South Flora Street in West Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
Did you guys all move back Southeast?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, So we made the record, did everything ourselves, and
we're like, Okay, we don't want to be another LA band.
We have this great fan base and following in the Southeast,
and we moved back. We moved to Baton Rouge for
about six months, and then we moved to the Garden
District in New Orleans. And then we were putting our
albums and every record store in the Southeast and going
(07:03):
by like you know, wums at Oxford, Mississippi, and in
Tuscaloosa and Athens, Georgia, really just like hawking it. And
that's when it kind of changed for us.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Did you guys have a first single when you were
or what was the first single that really wasn't a
record company putting out a single.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
The first song that ever got interests other than our
RAM covers was a song called CDU, and CDU back
in the day stood for Chemical Dependency Unit and it
was just it was this really great rock song and
it was the first song, real rock song we did
that didn't again, didn't sound like RAM. And that was
the first song as a songwriter that people were like, hey, man,
(07:41):
could you what was that song? Blah blah blah ced.
I was like, well, that's one of ours, and that
was like the aha moment. I was like, I need
to write more like that. And that was a cassette.
It was our first cassette, culed surprise and local, and
we would go to, you know, college stations and they
would play that cassette. And then in nineteen ninety one
was when I wrote Good and we started playing Good
and in the whole wahaw thing was supposed to be
(08:04):
a lyric, but we played Did you ever go to W. C.
Don's in Jackson, Mississippi.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
No.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
It was a double wide trailer that was a club
and it was run by the There was a mental
institution and some of the people who worked there or
were maybe patience. They ran the door. It was a
very interesting place and that was the first place we
ever played good and that kind of was the DNA
became the DNA for the band.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So when you said it was supposed to be a lyric,
was that just a melody place holder?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, so I was. I wrote the song that morning.
We had a show that night in Jackson and we
showed the song to the band. It was four court.
It's four chords, you know, and the idea. I was
listening to a lot of Pixies at the time, and
you know, and it's it's no coincidence that the Pixies
their documentary is called Loud, Quiet Loud, and it's all
just about hitting a distortion pedal, you know, the same
chords and that's how you do the dynamics. And so
(08:55):
I played it was like, we need to play this tonight.
So the wah ah was supposed to. I didn't know
what it was going to be lyric. And then people
came up like, hey man, I like that want aw
song and I was like, huh, And here I am.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Thirty years later, what do you think in your mind?
Waha was supposed to? You know, obviously don't know what
the what was the intention of whatever that lyric was
supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
When I've had to write it, it's I write it
out aha, kind of like remembering, like ah, it was
good living in with you. Aha, you know, like a
positive memory. Yeah, like like just kind of remembers. But
you know, a lot of my songs that have done
well have that because of that song, have a lot
of you know, the kind of something that's not a lyric,
you know. And I found early on when I've played
(09:40):
later songs, when I've played songs that don't have lyrics,
that Toddler's Like if I can play a song for
a Toddler and they and they bounce their head up
and down, I'm like, I'm cooking with gas. Yes, find
me a Toddler.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Play the track when you guys had Good and you
that feel different than Sorry?
Speaker 1 (09:57):
We just I just touched your foot underneath the table.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
I apologies, I got news for you. That wasn't my flight.
WHOA did did it feel different with Good?
Speaker 1 (10:07):
It did? Man, I did. There was just something about
that song. I think most songwriters have that. That the
first one that connects where you finally okay, what's my voice?
Because at first I was we were are songs. The
songs I was writing sounded like the Smiths and ra
Em and we're a lot softer. Then I got into
Huskerdo and I had a summer as a camp counselor
(10:28):
in North Carolina, and I discovered the Replacements and it
was just that hard edged rock thing, and I started
writing songs like that. A song called Circle of Friends,
which is on that first cassette. It was later on
the Empire record soundtrack if people remember that movie, that
Lived Tyler movie. But so that was the so good though,
was the kind of distillation of of like what was
(10:49):
working live and that kind of just but interesting about
that song is that it was pasted. We played so
many showcases, you know, in these sterile rehearsal rooms in
LA and New Orleans and stuff for label heads, and
we'd be flown out to New York and people listen
to and they go, hmmm, I don't hear it, you know,
(11:10):
and they would they would went and sign us. You know.
Five years later, those same label heads that passed on
that song were telling their new artists, you need to
write a song like good and we have friends in
different bands. They're like, man, you won't believe this.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
But you know, you mentioned like five times when I
think of Rim. Obviously Michael Slide was a very it
was just extremely dynamic anyway, but also regionally, like I
think Athens, Georgia, Rim like that, that's kind of where
that started for them, right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Oh, yeah, there's such a I'm really feel fortunate and
grateful that I was able to be in the band
that toured that southeastern circuit of all the college towns
which had all these great college bars. And it goes
back to Rim and the B fifty two's and Driving
and Crying and the Conelles, but even before that, it
goes to Sam and Dave and the Alman brothers and
(12:00):
Sam Cook. You know, it was this circuit of of
of towns you played and you had to be you
learn very very quickly if you're going to be successful
and asked back, you had to entertain people. And there
were bands like Ram and the Connells and a band
called dash Rip Rock.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Do you remember dash Rip Rock? Now?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
They were a cowpunk band from New Orleans that just
were so great live. And I was like, that's what
I got to do. I can't sit up and be cool.
I've got to entertain and it has to be a hyperbole,
you know, you got to put it out there. You
know that, you know. And so it was a real
great training ground. And there's not as many bands do
that because a lot of bands, I'll work with our
work with the right, with a lot of young bands,
(12:36):
and they they're very confident, which is you got to be.
But there's no replacing getting out there and grinding it,
rising and grinding. That's yeah, that's there. I'm to you
if there's no there's no replacing you know, those things
that happen on stage that you're not ready for. The
rapport you get with your band members, how to write
(12:56):
a set list, the EBB and flow, you know, here's
the hit and how do we string that together? And
I was able to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
What about the dynamic within the group because you took
some time off and now you're back, And I guess
when you took some time off you never planned to
be back. It feels like when you guys split up,
it wasn't we're gone forever. But it doesn't seem like
there was a let's be sure to get back together.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Yeah, I mean, I think we just needed time then,
just to kind of process when you go through a
tragedy and something draumatic like that for everybody, you know, gosh,
our band. We're going to keep doing it until people
are really like, man, they really need to stop.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Did you guys decide you were going to do that though?
Like all right, we're back, Like because again you can
get back in and put your toe in the water
and see when were you Like, we're gonna recommit. We
got to move back. We're going to make this record.
You guys are coming out to LA.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I think that when we played our first show and
I went from playing a telecaster and a twin reverb vamp,
I went and got a Less Paul and a four
by twelve cabinet with you know, twenty five what greenback
senate and a JCMA one hundred Marshall head. And I
was like, I've got to be the guitarist. And I
was able to do it. I had to step up
my game and become a better guitarist. But when people reacted,
(14:05):
we played Murphy's Bar and Grill this this Seminal Place
and Murphy's and Baton Rous rather, but every band from
the nineties and eighties would play college bands and in
the crowd reacted and there was so much love, and
we're like, man, we got to do this as a
tribute to Joel who had passed away, and so we
knew that moment, you know, and then we're just being friends.
(14:26):
You know, we needed the connection.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Jake Stark also was twenty one years old when he
was signed to his first record deal. Who had a
debut album that went platinum and another that went gold.
I mean, how close is that?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Well, Jake, but Jake, I was twenty eight see see
and Jake Stark was number forty seven and People's Most Beautiful,
fifty most Beautiful People. I was never in People magazine.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
You weren't.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I was never.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I Here's what I thought when I read that, I thought,
would that be great? I thought he was in People
magazines fifty most Beautiful People. I never knew that about you.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
But you know that I wasn't playgirl. That playgirl in
nineteen ninety six had an interview.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
It was just no, it was like, Wien are in there?
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I was not.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
It was not so That's girl, you know, sure it was.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
It was It was not Wiener. No, it was the
thing like the hot bands, Hot band Alert and I
was there and the Wieners.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
Did you ever open for RM? We did not, but
Jake Stark did.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Jake Stark did. Jake Stark opened for Lannel Ritchie Here's Oasis, yes,
and he opened for R. E. M at Royal Albert Hall.
And that's where Sir Daniel Smith Daniels did you? Did
you know? I haven't listened to your audiobook? You you
read your audio? Your book? Right?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yes? So I've got two like adult books, not pornography books,
kid books, kid book yeah, no Wiener no play girls.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah you went you look, you went there. Let's just
say you went for Wiers.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
I did. I did, And I was like, where is it?
But I heard you did accents in yours?
Speaker 3 (15:52):
I do.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
There are different uh musicians one iss from Barbados. There's
a guy named Shane Sawyer and he dogs like Sam
Elliott brother. My ego was not.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
That was pretty good.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, that's pretty good. See. So I do that and
I had a blast doing it. I'm doing a girl
named Darren Delaney from Montana. I'm doing a girl. I
do girls. Yeah, no, you have to.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
It's not that it's that you know anyone that has
just raised my voice.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I just raised my voice. Now you put me on
the spot. Brilliant, brilliant, Bobby. Perhaps we should get some
tea late.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
That's the better I thought it would be. Yes, Yeah,
Jack can raise it. If you touch my leg, it
gets higher. I'm gonna let it happen. You get back
to Sam Elliott Boye. Jake Stark, who his own recording
career began to Falter, started writing for Garth Brooks, The
Chicks and Madonna.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Now this makes a lot of sense to me, not
the Falter part because I didn't see that. But Mike
and I talked to it before you got here about
the songs that you've written in the country space. So
was he do you write some big Garth Brooks hits
or what Jake Stark?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Jake did?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, I never did. Yeah, I know you did it.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Jake wrote some Garth Brooks songs, some Madonna's songs.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Yeah, for in the country world here stuck like glue.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Stuck like glue.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Do you know the song that which has uh well,
which is wah? Yeah, And I was going to get
to that. There's a Toddler Toddler sound there.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Oh, my god. Look, most songwris like, if you have
an idea that a toddler laughs utter dances to, you're
gonna have a hit.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
I did that song with them at a festival once
and they were like, hey, come do the rap part,
and I was like, uh, it was like six hours notice,
maybe less than that, right, And I was like, you know,
I know the song, I don't really know know the song. Yeah,
And I said, I don't know that I know all
the rap part, right, because most of time, when you're
just singing along with it, you just kind of do
(17:57):
it and it sounds fun and you move on. I said,
but I'm gonna be critiqu this is gonna be recorded
for it like it was a television asterity. Yeah, so
I'm trying to remember every word everywhere of that rap part.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
And which you didn't really need to your your your
freestyle probably would have been better.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
I forgot most of it once I got up there,
and so that's what I did. And then I sound
like I was just trying to be creole. It just
wasn't good in any way whatsoever. But I remember doing
that song going, I did not know this when you
guys wrote that song and you wrote that rap part.
Did you write it as part of the song then
did it come about later?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
So the interesting thing is h and just to the
rap to your point, when that rap that was like controversial,
there were stations that were cutting it out, doing their
own edits. And then of course you know five years later,
you know you're you're hearing you know, Nelly with fgl
and stuff. So it's not you know, I guess they
had to break the mold. But also Jennifer was rap,
was the one rapping, and she did get kind of
(18:52):
a creole. He had to come to the a d
very shaggy. So I'm the one of it.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
You call my number, I make cleo, I am here
and we do it.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
One time. That was a fuge so little one time
he wrote that in the same spot there, So that
the way the song was written is it was twenty
ten and I was writing with this guy named Shy
Carter who's had a lot of hits and you may
have worked with him. He's an artist as well, and
we we we really didn't know what to write. And
at the time, Hay Soul's sister was big for training
(19:26):
and I'm yours. Jason Moras so I started playing this
guitar part, which is the song, and two hours later
we had nothing. Then we went to get some coffee,
went down to Intelligencia and Silver Lake, and we came
back and I started playing it again, and as Shi went, Yo, Kevin,
I'm gonna go out and get some herbal inspiration. So
Shy went out and got stoned, and he came back in.
He's like, man, put some auto tune on my track.
(19:48):
So I put autotune and everybody knows what autotune. As
you put it was the key of g put it
in and he started humming thirty seconds. If you've ever
written or worked with someone who smokes a lot of weed,
you have a very small window to capture the juice.
And it's brother, it's amazing. It's like Heaven sent genius.
But if you don't hit record, you're gonna lose it.
But I hit record and he went and I was like,
(20:10):
oh my god, and I had to record it. We
looped it, and that's us doing the that's us doing that.
So we we wrote a verse and a chorus, and
it never happens this way in the music business. It
was a Thursday. Our old drummer was playing with sugar
Land Travis McNab and I called Travis. I was like, hey, man,
give me Christian's phone number. And I called Christian. I
(20:30):
was like, are you guys still working on your sugar
Land al And he goes, yet, dude, we're recording Tuesday
and we need a single. And I was like, I
have your single and I sent him, Shy, I've got
the demo version I sent Shy. We sent him like
a forty five second verse chorus of the song. Sent
it to them and like, we're going to record this
on Tuesday, not completed though yet not completed. Yes, So
(20:53):
they wrote the second verse God and the rap and
we were off to the races.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
And what did you think of the rap when you
heard it? And what'd you think of why they put
it in, how they put it in.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
I totally dug it, man. You know, I always believe that,
you know, those doing things that aren't expector maybe considered
the norm, ultimately you know history, You're on the right
side of history. And it was a thing. You know,
people talked about it, and now it seems tame by comparison,
right when you hear production and stuff these days.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
But it was.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I was. Look, I was super grateful, you know, to
have them cut it.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
The Bobby Cast will be right back. Wow, and we're
back on the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Why write a book and why write it with a
fictional character saying nonfiction things?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Well, you know, I started doing this. They say that,
you know, nothing good happens in a bar after two am,
especially new Orn Steer and MANI gras This one time though,
I was, I had written in the Hermi Parade and
I was having a jambalaya fn M Patio Bar uptown
New One. Have you ever been there? Now? It's a
crazy place. It gets going around three am. But I
(22:08):
ran into this buddy who is an entrepreneur guy in Dallas,
and he was with a group of friends. They were
YPO guys, and YPO is Young Presidents Organization. It's kind
of like a fraternity for for very successful men and women.
And so he goes, hey, man, Malcolm Gladwell just spoke
for us here in New Orleans. You want to speak
for us in Dallas in three and three years? And
I was three years three months and I was like, yeah,
(22:31):
I finished my jambalaya. I forgot about it. Two months
later it's like, hey, so here's the day in Dallas.
I had to think of something to speak about. And
around about the same time, I was just working with
younger artists and getting asked like, hey, how have you
stayed successful in this business that's notoriously fickle? And I
was and I realized, you know, so there was that
(22:53):
going on. But also I had to do a speech
and I was and I thought of, like these things
that I've had to do, like wow, there actually are tools,
these practices I've kind of put into my life that
have allowed me to be successful. So I kind of
codified them in a speech that took off from doing
ypos to Live Nation, which witch to Google, Nike, Disney,
and about four years ago I was like, I want
(23:14):
to put it into a book, but I didn't want
it to be something just really kind of boring. And
I've always I love, like I said earlier, I love reading,
and I love stories, and I've always liked business parables,
things like who moved my cheese, rich Dad, poor Dad,
the Celestine Prophecy, you know, the go giver, things like that,
And I was like, you know, what would excite me
(23:35):
to write would be to write a story about a songwriter.
And of course there's liberal parts of my life, but look,
I've never met a twenty eight year old British billionaire
Sir Daniel Smith Daniels and all the different songwriters and
all the different crazy things that happened to him, you know,
it ever happened to me. And that's really And I
wanted it to be something that you know, so many
(23:56):
books when I you know, like often like you'll be
like growing online and it says do these five things
to live to one hundred and you click on it,
but then you start scrolling and after about ten minutes
you're looking at the ginners. You know, it's clickbait. I
like things that are actually every once in a while,
though you click and it actually to do those five things.
(24:16):
And I wanted the book to be that I wanted
to people. I wanted to be short. I wanted people
to read it and actually have like, oh these are
the five things. I can actually put handles on those
ideas and take them home with me, and.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Targeting, like who's your target audience.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
I'm targeting people in business, people in careers, people who
have been not just music, not just music. And what
I found the reason The speech took off for people
as they as that, oh wow, what I realized before
I did that first speech and why it's kind of
it continues like I was I was just in speaking
(24:50):
to I was speaking to six hundred people for a
GM conference last week in San Antonio. The week before that,
I was in San Juan, Puerto Rico talking to a
ship Bob, which is a bit omnifulfillment company. What I
realized is that, oh, the same things I do in
music to stay inspired and competitive and successful in connecting
those dots from having a hit song and taking it
to the right person is is the same in every business.
(25:13):
And the things I do to stay successful in business
also have helped me in my relationships with my family
and my wife and stuff. And so, but I realized
that people love music. It's sexy, you know that, we
know being in music, there's nothing sexy at all about it,
Like Jesus Christ, let's let the facade remain. And so
(25:33):
music was like this great catalyst to get these ideas
across that everybody can use. And that was really what like.
And then being a songwriter, I realized, as you know,
like when you have an idea to write a book,
Getting yourself up every day to write those two hundred
and fifty words or five hundred words and committing to
it was so hard. But because I'd been a songwriter
and seeing that something as silly as a song idea
(25:55):
like want aw it was good could turn into a song,
an album, hit, a life changing thing, I knew that
you just got to continue. I knew this. I knew
the idea for the book was good because of the
speech was successful. So I just knew I needed to
write it. And then then I got, you know, the
developmental editor helping me and learning, you know, and and
being open to like, hey, this is I'm a I'm
(26:16):
a baby in the woods. I don't know what I'm doing.
It was really cool and it's been a really great endeavor.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Are you killing it on the speaking circuit because you're
you're mentioning a lot of places and there's a big.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
It's pretty cool. Yeah, Yeah, it's been great. It's it's
been like that.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
I'm doing a car. I just in a couple of months,
I'm doing a car. We sorry, how you can move?
Speaker 1 (26:38):
That's fine?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
And it's a six figure speaking deal and it's just
those are just normally that much. But you're listening to
all these are you? Is that how you're making most
of your money now? Speaking bro?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
I am a uh no, you know I do well
on the speaking things. I don't have six figures, but
I'm not you know, I don't have your reach and.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Your Yeah, but you have the stop pay No no, no,
that's not true at all. You have your star, but
you're mentioning all these massive It's been really cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
So I do about seven a year, and and it's
all word of mouth. Like I'm I'm represented by William
Morris and CA with two different music projects. Ezra's with
William Morse, but this is fun. C AA does Ezra
ray Hart the band I have with mar McGrath and
Emerson Hart, and that's been turned into its own thing.
(27:26):
But what I found is part of the speaking agency
of W and Me. William Morris is Harry Walker, and
I'm a speaker there with Malcolm Gladwell and all those
other illuminatis. You're probably are you one of those guys? No,
not in that grip, But they don't give me anything.
They've got me one gig. What it's really been about
is word of mouth playing shows, somebody reaching out and
(27:47):
DM and me and stuff like that are just people
who were have kind of segued into that business of booking,
you know, conferences and stuff. But it's so much fun.
What I do is I go that the speech is
like I play, It's the story of my life and
the story arc of being signed, being dropped, reinventing myself,
and the songs I played the hit songs throughout zo
(28:10):
one man show. It's a one man show, and at
the end of it, we write a song together. The
last thing in the book and also in the speech,
is dare to be stupid and the ideas that you'll
never come up with anything truly groundbreaking unless you're prepared
to fall in your face. So let's be stupid together.
And I use the example of like J. T. Harding,
who's one of the greatest best songwriters in Nashville. He
has no filter, you know. The people who come up
(28:30):
with crazy ideas and aren't afraid of looking silly are
the ones that succeed. So then we write a song together,
and a week later everyone gets a fully produced demo
with me and thirty people or three thousand people.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
What do you mean you write a song together. You're
doing a spit. Yeah, they're just shouting things.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
So like, for example, going to San Antonio, I flew
in from Salt Lake City and I had an idea
for a song. I was like, okay, the desert. Let's
write a song called Desert Stars. So I come up
with the verse and a course, and I kind of
know the verse lyrics okay, and I get up there.
I'm like, hey, guys, I know it's ten am in
the morning, but we're gonna write a song. Here's the idea.
(29:08):
It's called Desert Stars. We're in the hill country or
San Antonio, and here's a here's a first verse. Of course,
I think it's kind of dope. Let me know what
you think. And I already have a beat on my
pro tools and I hit play, and the beats playing,
I sing a long. I go, what do y'all think?
Pretty pretty good? And somebody might say say tequila. I'm like,
that's yes, dare to be stupid, and you know, we
say tequila, and then we write the second verse together.
(29:29):
And it's usually just four lines and people and everybody
on their table has a sharpiees and pencils and papers,
and there's always somebody without fail who comes up with
this great line, you know. And then we're off to
the races and someone's my secretary or a man or
a woman. They write out the lyrics. Then I sing
the song and then everybody gets up. I have a
microphone in front of the stage. All the guys get up.
I'm like, give me a I'm gonna go hey. Oh
(29:51):
they do hazen' HOAt and I'm like, what about like
desert stars? Was I like all the guys under the desert,
under the desert stars. And They'll start doing louder louder,
dare to be stupid louder. And then I'm like, yes,
I've got you. Now give me some hazing hoes. And
the girls come up, they go whoo, and then you know,
and then the guys will say hey, Sanya, Rita, and
(30:14):
then we just then I just a few days after
I come back home, I put it in the song.
You know, pro tools, cut and pace and they have
a song. It's really fun.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Now if one of those goes viral and then that exists,
what's the split on the publish? Check this out?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
So we had a Jake Owen's hold on a YPO
song I can't remember the name of it. It was
me and about forty two people songwriters.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, is that what I was listed at?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
That's funny, I know, right.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Wow, we interrupt this interview to bring you a message
from our sponsor. Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
So the book has a lot of your successful, famous
people on it that are also a standing and going, hey,
this guy's good. We trust him, we would I look
at it. Peyton Manning's on the car. Yeah, I mean
I'm not really, I'm on this.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Well you're no, you're You're in the biggest spot. You're
in sixteen point front and everybody else.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
I knew, I knew you were going to do it.
You should have made me a fake should have made
me a fake version. So you do you know Peyton Manning?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
I do know Peyton?
Speaker 2 (31:28):
How do you know?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Obviously he's New Orleans, New Orleans guys. So since you
know there's three brothers, there's everybody knows Cooper now, right.
Cooper was always the funniest one, and he apparently was like,
it's a great athlete. But then he got this kind
of stenosis of the spine that kind of messed his
arm up. Cooper was a big Ezra fan and I
think he turned Peyton and Eli onto the band, and
(31:51):
man they would come to They would come to aller
Tipotina shows in New Orleans, but more fun when we
played Indianapolis, Peyton would come bring his whole offensive line,
you know. And every time we did this time of year,
will there's a football in the air, he would throw
the football out in New York City at Irving Plaza.
Eli would get up. There was one awesome time where
Peyton and Eli got on State at Irving Closet in
(32:14):
New York and throw the football out. And we've just
been tight with those guys, you know, Like we did
Red Rocks with bare naked ladies last year and Peyton
got out through the ball.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You know, it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
There's such and they're like organic fans. They're so there's
so they know all the songs, they can sing along
and they're so good. But they're also you know those guys,
I mean, they also will screw with you. Like last time,
right before I'm fired up, it's my first time to
play Red Rocks and Peyton's like, yo, Kevin, you sure
you want to wear that shirt out on state giving
(32:44):
me shit, Give me shit.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
That was nice of them to take the front page
of the book though, you know it was really good.
Guy doesn't have enough.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
They paid me really well, yeah, to put because he's like, listen,
we need a little boost to a sagging career. Could
you could he be the guy on the front you.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
Mentioned do you have allergies at all? I'm gonna take
an allergy pill?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
No, do it?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
But that's what's up.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
No do it? Adderall is a slippery slope.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
You know, I have to take I have to take
allergy medicine probably from now until August every day. Oh
really yeah? But then I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
I sometimes I'll take like a claton or something.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
They give me an EpiPen too, and it's never been
so so you've got a bad It's never been. I've
never had it to the point of having to use it.
But for some reason, every time they're like, do you
have your EpiPen just in case?
Speaker 1 (33:32):
I'm like, for what, well, are you like allergic to
hornets and yellow jackets?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Not that I know of.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
They did. We could try to. We could just do
a test.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
What's that I want to do with that crap? We
just get a whole bunch of hornets and yellow jacket.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
Walk there, we can find a yellow jacket's nest.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
I did that test where they put like a scratcher
back with all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
They still do that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I walked out and they did like twenty seven things
on me, and I walked out and they were like, okay,
you're you're allergic to I don't remember I should. It's
like rag times three, Chinese maple sauce, all these things.
I don't even know if they're hearing sauce. And they're like,
and you need an EpiPen.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Justine party with some Chinese maple sauce at Yeah. Yeah,
it was up for three days in Vegas.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Well, pardon my my allergy pill. They're partly taking that.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Oh good brother.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
You mentioned bear naked ladies.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Why does Ed hate me?
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Wait?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
What you know?
Speaker 1 (34:20):
I've written like all the singles on their past four
or five records with with D We had the best time.
Ed Robertson would love Bobby.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Ed Robertson wouldn't acknowledge anything that I would send him
on social media. I would message him. I would write
in his comments everything.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Should we just should we just text him right now.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
And I was like, because I am the biggest BNL fan.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
They are such an amazing band, and I get to
write the songs with Ed that I could never write
with any other artist. You know, we we we a
song called duct Tape Heart, you know, writing about duct tape,
our love of Dug say. But you know, we just
get to you know, we get to write this. It's
just we have so much fun. He's one of the smartest,
(35:02):
most He's actually maddeningly talented. He'll kick your ass in cornhole.
He's a pilot. He wrote this is interesting. This is
a cool kind of peek behind the curtain. The song
that's been most successful for him is the big bang Thing.
And he said, I'm not going to let him repeat
this because he's going to do the Bobby Casks. He's
(35:22):
going to be myth dude, he is. He is a fan,
trusts me. He doesn't know yet, but he Okay, no,
he doesn't know. But he was, like, he told me
about writing the song. He goes, Kevin, it's a hit
song every quarter. This song is a world worldwide. You know,
(35:43):
it's in syndication all over the world in eighty different languages.
You know, and that song. It's nuts that people who
make the most in the songwriting business are the television writers,
television composers. I was hit this thing right before the pandemic.
It was the b ANDI Songwriters Fest and kawhi, you've
done done that. And I was there. I mean, Chris
kus Starffin was there, was there, Willie Neilson. I had
(36:05):
to sing wah ah, I did good a private show
right in front of Chris Kustofferson and Willie Nelson. But
it was all these like Miranda Lambert was there, Maren Morris.
But the guy Mike O'Neil from BMI said, he said,
you know, the most successful guy in this room, and
I was like, no, he goes right over there. I flew.
I flew over here from LA on his G five.
Mike Post who wrote the theme from Taxi, Hill Street Blues,
(36:29):
all Rockford Files to this day, he writes, you know,
hits theme songs and stuff. That's where the really stupid
money is. That's like the biggest BMI and ASCAT writers
really every year are always going to be Trent Resner
or you know, all these big television and film writers.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Like Resnor for like the Facebook movie.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
What did I just I just saw.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
What was it?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
The Blinding Light? It was a new Sam Mendes film
that they did Atticus and and Trent did.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Were you a nine inch Nell's guy? It wasn't my
thing me either. I was now that I'm past it
and it's not as scary to me and as dark,
and I kind of understand it for what it was
now better in my rear view. Then I appreciated it
then because it was too much for.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
It was too much, it was too relentless. This was interesting.
So when I when they were having their biggest success,
like Closer and all those songs, they lived in New Orleans.
Trent lived like five blocks for me. We both lived
in the Garden District and he had this converted funeral
home on Magazine Street was called Hot Snake Studio that
was converted into a studio used.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
To be a funeral home. Mortuary music that has.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Been all and like I went in there one night.
I kind of invited. I met this friend and we
was like, let's go to Trent Rezors party?
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Was that partially for effect I did?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
It was so dark and may Marilyn Manson was there,
and I was like, you know, what man to work
this hard, to be this dark and scary. It just
seems exhausting to me. And I'm just not that guy.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
But do you think that the whole by the funeral
home for us? Dude, like you could have buy any building, right,
But do you think because that was his thing or
was it so much as real thing that that was
his thing?
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I think he was. I think when you hear interviews,
he was in a really dark place. You know, I
don't think he was living the healthiest life. I'll let
him elaborate on that. But I did go to his house.
I went to his house. I was gonna move and
I went and looked at his house when I was
on the market. In the gardener John Goodman from Roseanne
Fame ended up buying that house. Who's I think they
(38:29):
repainted New Orleans guy.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
My suggests he's the part of his brand.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
He is married to Annabeth Goodman, who is a good
friend and she and she owns Pippin Lane, which is
the coolest little children's store. Magazine Street.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
You mentioned some of your songs a minute ago Peytonny
would come out, so that same song, Yeah, I'm here.
I've told the story like five times, but you'd let
people come out.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
And play it. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
And I was like, oh, want to come up. I
was as a kid teenager. He said come up. So
I got on stage and I took the guitar. I
played left handed. I don't play right handed, and I
don't know how to play it. And you say get
off stage.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I said, I love you, but you have to go
off the stage now with love with love you scary?
Was this the moment?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
I remember? It was my moment to get up with
my favorite band and I was like, I know the
song and I get up there handed and there was
no left handed guitar. Yeah. I felt like somebody who
didn't have But clearly.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
It didn't stop you. Maybe maybe that was the moment,
Maybe that more public shaming was the thing that you
needed every day. It was like, I'll show Kevin Griffin.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I really was going to get is best version you
ever heard?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
When your books came out and they were New York
Times best sellers, like I Show Kevin Griffin The Son
of a Bitch.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
So good is a big hit for you guys? How
big did it get during that first single for Better
than Azra? Did you get lost in it at all.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Uh, you know what, I think if I would have
gotten lost if it had happened. When I wrote it,
it was five years old, like was you know, twenty
two when it came out, but we had been kind
of I was twenty seven, I think, maybe about to
turn twenty eight. That we lied about our age. Like
if you go on Facebook, it says I'm two years
younger than I actually am. It says I'm fifty four,
(40:14):
but I'm fifty six. I can say that now it
sounds pathetic, but at the time I was like, I'm
taking it now, leave it. Leave it. Yeah, But so
you wanted to be younger. You felt like, well, it's
actually comical to think. But we weren't signed. We were
twenty seven and Ban's younger than this. We're getting signed.
We're like, we gotta lie about our Hey, what is
your age? And we said, but two years younger. It
sounds silly. But now my buddies when it's my birthday
(40:36):
and you know, I have friends from college or whatever
live all over the country, maybe in Des Moines, it'll
be a slow news day and it says today, you know,
people born new Jimmy Carter's at October first, Kevin Griffin
from Better Than Nazara fifty four years old. My friends
will just text me a screenshet. They're like like, you're pathetic.
I'm like, ah, fifty four years old.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
After good but good, I didn't lose it. Go after
it runs its course as a single and you're going
to the next What was the second single?
Speaker 1 (41:01):
In the Blood? Okay, in the Blood and it was
shot by uh By Frank Cockinfell's who's done some of
the most iconic covers of Rolling Stone magazine. He's a
photographer first that did videos and that was his first,
one of his first videos. The third single was Rosalia.
This is how crazy how in the nineties how much
(41:22):
money the labels were making. Most most videos cost about
two fifty three hundred k. You know back then now
you get a great video for like five K, but
they were two fifty three hundred k with huge production.
We shot the first video by a guy named Joseph
Coltice who did a lot of nine inch nails covers.
(41:42):
The label didn't like it, so they were like, no,
we need we want another one, so we flew to
La Frank. They paid for yeah, two hundred and fifty thousand,
and they were just like, naw, yeah, we don't like it,
but we paid for half of that. Yeah, so we
were yeah, was recoupable. I mean we were naive. So
we fly to La and the producer of the Rosalia
(42:02):
the second version, version two, was like, so we want someone.
Frank wants this young actress to be This was a
girl named Rebecca. She was from New Zealand as a
new actress. She's in a new Robert Rodriguez film called Desperado.
Her name is Selma Hyak. I think you'll find it
quite suitable to be Rosalia and I was like, great,
(42:23):
so Rosalie. If you go online, Rosalia is played by
Selma Hyak. But the best part about shooting the video,
all the b roll with a Selma was shot Apart
from us. We did our live show, but we had
the rap party at the Ivy on Robertson. It's a
little you know, it's a restaurant, kind of snooty, but
(42:46):
they have amazing chop salads. So we were all there
was a rap party. Everybody was drinking the Ivy gimlets,
which were super strong, and at the end of the
dinner's like fourteen of us. Everyone's having a great time
getting their drink on. Sama goes like, does anybody, Uh yeah,
does anybody want to go salsa dancing? And nobody said anything,
and I was like, I do so Selmahayak and I
(43:10):
got in her car and we went to East La
and she taught me how to Susa dance and we
kind of had fun and hung out for a couple
of weeks and she was super cool. That's awesome. Yeah,
what happened in the first video though? Oh so the
first video I have no idea, and so we were
five hundred and fifty thousand dollars in and the Selma
Hyak video I think got played thirteen times on MTV.
Well when you half a million.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
Dollars and where is the first like could you? I mean,
if you had, I don't even would it have been
like an archive at the label? You know?
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Maybe probably is the Joseph Colties. It was super dark.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
That would be really cool, be cool to release.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
I mean, I mean, like, are like the Desperately Wanting
video off of the Friction Baby album that was done
by Nigel Dick who did Uh What's the Story Morning
Glory and Uh Wonderwall I mean it's a really cool
I mean, we did some cool videos. I mean we
always aspired to be Radiohead or something like that, who
always did cool videos, you know, but we weren't that lucky.
Some of our videos were silly.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
When you're when good crushes and that's on pop radio.
And then even Rosalie I would hear that more on
rock radio or atern because it was more alt. I'd
hear that alter like the Edge in Dallas. And it
wasn't until probably Desperately Wanting that I feel like again
I started to hear it back on the pop radio again.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
You know who was big for us was nine in
nine X in Atlanta, Leslie Fram you know, she was
on the morning show there. Yeah, they really broke Jimmy
Jimmy Yeah, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
A born Dave jim Burn. They were like morning show forever.
They're back doing it now.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
They're back doing I'm thinking I'm doing it next week.
Really think I'm to do eight am Desperately Wanting. You know,
looking back, the first single from the Friction Baby album
was King of New Orleans. In hindsight, it should have
been Desperately Wanting. That was the song that reacted and
I think that album, I think the Friction Baby album
would have done, you know, done as many copies as deluxe,
(45:03):
you know, but as it was, it went platinum barely.
But uh yeah, it was desperately just kind of just
resonated with people.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, that was like that one felt to me like
a fun dark if that's possible.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
You know. Da it was the nineties. In the nineties,
you know, you had a lot of times I'll be
playing now you know, we play, We'll do like a
corporate event or now you know what. The band's been
around long enough to where we will do privates and
it's first somebody's fiftieth birthday party, right, and we're playing
songs and it gets desperately the warning and it's like
when they pumped out you guts field, you full of
(45:40):
those pills, everybody.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Party by it was still such a strong build up.
I remember running through the wet grass fall and so yeah,
it was like fun dark.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
It was fun dark. Yeah. And in the nineties though,
you were it was you, it was you were encouraged.
You just wrote heavy lyrics. It needed to have meat
and it had to be something, and so many of
those early songs for me were really. Uh, we're heavy.
But some of my favorite songs, like when you pull
back the layers, like some of some big pop songs,
(46:10):
they kind of have dark lyrics.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
M yeah, uh extraordinary, A bit different though, Yes, that
one felt completely completely different. I played that. I was
just doing pop radio at the time, Like on the radio,
I played that one that out. That was the Orange
I'm just that was the closer record. Yeah, and that
was what was that like? Orange? It was kind of
yellow than cold severely really yeah, but it was orangeist right,
(46:34):
show me about here?
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Okay, good Orange?
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Yeah, thank you? But that song was was up.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
I'm gonna I'm gonna make fun of your color blindness
and the fact that you were left handed and I
sent you back into the audience. I've got to make
that up to you.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Well you kind of did. You played our big charity
I know, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Would you see you let me perform for the first
time on the rhyme stage. I've never performed there before
really or after? Well, you walk up, see what to
do for you on stage? Do what you did for
me on a stage? You know, exactly the opposite. This
is gonna be some color crap. Why don't at Pilgrimage festival.
You on the stage with the left handed see my
wife gifts and now we're going to get you great. No, no,
this is it.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
I'm not going to run a great song. No, no, no,
this is about you unless you were Unless you turn
me off and you just let me fake it.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
You're good.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
No, I'm okay. But there are so many people there
that want to want to see you guys do that
song because that is a cult that's a cult song.
It's not my favorite songs from you guys, and it
was never a bag song.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Yeah, people love that song. I wish it would have
been a single. I wish we'd recorded it better that
That whole album was as Azer's biggest, you know album
it always will be. It was recorded on a half
inch analog tape, not even like professional grade, and when
you when you a be it next to some other music,
it's sound you can tell sonically it's not there. But
(47:46):
I wish that song this time of year would have
been a single. But this time of year, you're on stage,
if you're in town.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
What I was just talk about pilrimage because we can
use this also for what we always do every year
with pilgrimage. We can talk about it, and I can
take it and place it on the radio. Gives well,
so what do we got here about? We got about
seven eight minutes. So let's first of all to conclude
about the book. It is not just a songwriter's book.
It is a book generally about I'm not even going
(48:15):
to say success, because my second book, Fail Until You Don't,
is not about success. It's about hopefully the end product
is some sort of success, but it's about what it
takes and a lot of the things that you have
to take in order to get there. And it feels
like this book is kind of that too, where you
kind of give freedom to experiment, to fall, be foolish
(48:36):
because it takes that. It takes you trying things to
be able to actually find them exactly just and trying
them sometimes can result and things that are embarrassing.
Speaker 1 (48:45):
Or what I found is that is that everything I
always thought the way I was in business and success
and the way I wasn't my family and we're different,
and I realized at some point it is all connected.
And if I conduct myself the way the way I
should and creatively in songwriting and business and do use
(49:05):
those tools like listening and contrary action and checking my
ego in my personal life. Everything got gets amazing and
I'm so much more successful. And that's what this book
is about. That is all connected and that was the
big AHA moment for me.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Okay, so everybody get the book. It's called The Greatest Song.
Spark creativity, ignite your career, and transform your life. We
talked about it before Kevin got here, but there it
is again. Now from that we got a few minutes
Pilgrimage Festival. You guys hit a home run with Zach
Bryan booking.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Dude, is that one of.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Those where you're like, we knew he was going to
be awesome, but we didn't know he was.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Going to be this boy. We had no idea. I mean,
I mean, the Zach Bryan phenomenon is gray and as
a producer you're always hoping you get that booking before
they get big. Look the first year Pilgrimage twenty fifteen,
the third the third act on the stage on our
second st age was Chris Stapleton, you know, and then
(50:03):
fast forward six years later we're paying him a lot
more money to headline. You always want to do that.
Last year we had John Batisse before all the Grammy nominations,
but that but Zach is a whole his whole, next
level and it's a phenomenon. And when we were able
to lock him down, we were very excited.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
The Lumineers, oh.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Who are so great live, They're insane live.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
So when you booked that far out, Zach Brian feels like,
because I assume you have booked this a year in advance, right,
yeah close? Yeah, yeah, I mean Zach Bryan feels like
a little riskier than the Lumineers because the Zach Bryan
monster that it is now, although it was growing and
it was eating, it wasn't as big. So I felt
like that was a little bit of a gamble.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
Zach kind of happened. We're one of the Now every
festival is getting them, it's getting him to headline. But
US and Railbird were the first festivals were like, you know,
this guy is a headline it's a headline artist. And
we could already, you know, we already had a ear
to the ground and we were already already starting to
see the phenomenon and what he was doing on his
(51:04):
own shows at Red Rock and stuff. But still it
was a leap, but you know, we have it's a
great group of people, and we had a few people like,
trust me, this is a great this is a great
get for this festival. It's going to be huge. And
he's such a cool dude as well.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
We had a deal when I was in Austin and
we had to book this show. We were doing something
called a second Chance prom which back in the day
was cool but now everybody's done it one hundred times.
But they had We had ten thousand bucks to book
an artists, right, and so we booked this this new
artist who had a single, who had just come out,
and we spent all ten thousand dollars on her. And
she was a little centric, but I was I felt
(51:38):
pretty good that she would at least have some success.
Six months later, whenever the show happened, it was Lady Gaga.
And by the time she came to play this venue
that we had reserved for eight hundred people, she was
so freaking big that there were more people outside trying
to get into the more inside the place.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
That's amazing as lighting in a bottle. And remember that
I was in this weekend. I was with my wife
in Mexico City, it was her birthday. Went for the
first time and we heard the first Lady Gaga single.
Remember that song? You remember what it was?
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Just answer? Yeah, that was the one.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
Yeah, oh yeah, it's such a good song.
Speaker 2 (52:13):
I hadn't heard.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
I was like, oh my god. I remember I was
living in La at Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf. When
I heard the song of the first time, I was like,
this is a good song.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Another act that you have that I love just a
there are so many acts. This is like f for me,
Like I love the Black Crows. Adam can play my show.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
I've never seen them live.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
They're great, They're still great, and they have so many songs, right,
that's what it's about, the songs. But the Head and
the Heart, like, that's where it is for me. That's
what I listened to when it's like, what do you
listen to for fun? The Head and the Heart.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
Head in the Heart is a band. I love that
first record. You know, they've gotten better and better every
album and this new album and now they're kind of
writing with the writing with Justin Tranter and I think
Ashley Gorley may have written one of the big songs
on this new album. They're just getting smarter and better.
They're selling out big replaced. They did a send Empathy
(53:01):
to last year, sold it out. I've kind of gotten
to be friends with their manager, a guy named Matt
Shay who also manages Charlie Worsham. A great guy and
so just kind of starting to know the dynamics of
that band. I'm so fired up to have them on.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Haley Witters, who I love, is playing the festival.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
That was one of the artists. I was like, we
have to get Hailey Witterers, you know, I think she
feels just kind of a country or Casey Musgraves to me.
You know, authentic isn't the right word, because Casey's super authentic.
She's a badass. But there's something about Haley that she's
got a little bit of Casey bet her own thing too.
Speaker 2 (53:36):
This festival has really grown and I feel like now
it has a cleat in the ground. Yeah, where anytime
you launch any sort of festival, any sort of series
of shows, it's just like you're one, it's a risk.
We're gonna lose money too, you know. It's that. But
I feel like now you guys have something where people
expect it and they expect it to be good. Yeah,
do you feel the same.
Speaker 1 (53:56):
I do feel the same.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
You know.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
It's man, everything we thought, well, isn't going to be
true that more experienced people told us turned out to
be true. They're like, you're gonna you're gonna lose your ass.
Year one. You're gonna lose your ass. Year two, we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
we're gonna do fine, and then you lose your ass.
Or one guy from from uh who does acl and
and Laala in Chicago, he said, he was like, what
(54:18):
is the minimum amount of tickets? You think you'll sell
them the first year and we're like twelve thousand. He said,
you'll sell six thousand tickets.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
And he was right, you know.
Speaker 1 (54:26):
But we made it through, and you know, year three
we had justin Timberlake and that was a big game changer.
And then the next year we get rained out, you know,
and then we didn't realize that when you rain out,
people might love your vessel, but they're the next year
they're gonna be like, I'm gonna take a break. You know.
We had food fighters and the killers that year, you know,
but a lot of people didn't come because they'd been
told to go home. When the sky was blue. Of
(54:48):
course an hour later it was you know, de lugeon
sixty nine lightning strikes owned the property. But uh, now,
though it does feel like we're kind of just hit
our stride, we know we're doing We've got it so
tweaked and so dialed in, you know, from just the
GA experience to the VIP it's just a blast to do.
And it's just turned into a thing, you know, and
(55:10):
when I go like, man, I never knew doing this
that I was going to be on a first name
basis with the Mayor of Franklin and all the aldermen
and having mint tea and cucumber sandwiches with aldermen and stuff.
But it's really been cool. And I have to do
all that stuff. It's kind of being the face of
the festival, but I kind of really get into it.
And it also has it also has a purpose. You know,
(55:33):
there's we support like five or six different charities in Franklin.
Fifty cents of every ticket goes to music heres Actually
now it's gets and gifts, but uh yeah, so's it's cool.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
Pilgrimage Music and Cultural Festival back in Franklin, September twenty
third and twenty fourth. Get your tickets at Pilgrimage Festival
dot com. You got the book, You're still on the road,
you're speaking, you got Pilgrimage Festival.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
I mean, you know what I'm trying to do?
Speaker 2 (55:57):
What what are you trying to do?
Speaker 1 (55:58):
Be Bobby Bemp.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
You don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
I want to be an older, more haggard Bobby.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
You don't want to be that.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
I want to be a more world weary, shaded Bobby Bones.
Speaker 2 (56:05):
And you're gonna let Ed know that he doesn't hate me.
Speaker 1 (56:08):
Dude's video here, This is gonna this is gonna be
recorded me.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
I'm making a video for Fred. All right ready here Ed, Hello,
it's Bobby Bones. You probably have no idea. I am
sitting here with Kevin, longtime friends. I mean, he admires
me so much, you probably he mean, it's just weird
how much he admires me.
Speaker 1 (56:25):
I yes, thank Heed, listen to this man.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
And so I've been trying to get a hold of
you for like basically years. I'd write comments on your Instagram,
I'd send you DMS, I tweet, and I just felt
very ignored. And I was doing an interview about songwriting
a wildly popular podcast. It's millions. You have millions and
millions a month. And I was like, why does ED
hate me? And Kevin gave me five reasons why you
hated me, But I just wanted to say, please, don't anymore.
(56:47):
Would love to meet you in person. And I love
bn L for life. That's what I am, all right, see, buddy, Yeah,
let me know what he Let me know what he says.
We're having up do go to all that stuff. The
book which we talked about at the beginning. Will put
in the notes to tell you M much best. We'll
put in the notes to And I just admire you
for dude.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
Let me let me say, and all honestly you've been
You've been so kind always from the from the get
go and watching your career and all the hustle you do,
it's just badass man. And you're you're a homeboy. You're
you're you're an Arkansas guy. I'm a Monro guy. You
know we still listen to k TV Channel ten peckin Bluff, Arkansas.
(57:24):
Did you ever do that?
Speaker 3 (57:25):
No?
Speaker 2 (57:25):
No, no, I knew it, but yes, okay, you need
get my point. Yes I do say we had the
same we were experiencing the same things exame. We were
looking at the same star, having the same dream stars.
That's right, all right there he is Kevin Graff and Kevin. Thanks,
Boddy Brother, thank you. Thanks for listening to the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 3 (57:40):
Share this episode with a friend because they don't pay
to advertise us.
Host
Bobby Bones
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