Favorite 10 BobbyCast Moments of 2022 (Part 2)

Mike D takes you along our favorite moments from the BobbyCast this year! In Part 2, you’ll hear stories from Ronnie Dunn of Brooks and Dunn, Sherly Crow, Gavin DeGraw, Rita Wilson and Billy Ray Cyrus! Stories of living with Johnny Cash, getting clean and what it’s like to be famous.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to the Top ten Bobby Cast of two.
My name is Mike d and on part two I
will be taking you through the top five Bobby cast
of the year. If you miss part one, just go
back in the feed and listen to what made it
into numbers ten through six. But this is the best
of the best of the year. These were are most downloaded,

(00:22):
are most interacted with, and the episodes that we encourage
you if you missed them in their entirety, to go
back in the feed and listen to these entire hour
long interviews. So let's kick it off with number five
from episode three sixty eight. It is Rita Wilson. A
little behind the scenes. This one probably took a year
to book because Rita Wilson is rarely in Nashville. But

(00:42):
I knew if we could make it happen, it would
make for a great episode, and that proved to be true.
I think Rita ended up crying twice in this entire interview,
and this is just a small portion of that. So
I highly encourage you to go back and listen to
episode three six eight. Here is Rita Wilson talking about
being a first generation of American and her parents heroic
journey to the United States. I do want to go back, though,

(01:05):
because I'm curious about your roots and even what it
was like growing up, Like how people turn out the
way they are. What was your house, like, it's seven
years old, who's there? Where do you live? That is
such a great question. Well, I'm a first generation American.
My mom was Greek and my dad was Bulgarian, and
they both had to escape their various countries because during

(01:27):
World War Two, my mom's village was on the border
of Greece and Albania, and as things got tough, they
knew they had to leave. So my mom had to
cross over these mountains by herself in the middle of
the night to get into Greece, to get to Athens
to eventually restore her American passport because she was born
in America. How old was she when when she had

(01:48):
to do that. She was a nineteen when she left
by herself, just with this backpack. I call it a backpack,
but it was something on her back that carried this
sterling silver flatwear that they had brought from New York.
Did you ever talk to her about that, Like what
was going through her mind when she made that decision where,
because that's a hard decision, even if you know you
have to do it, it's a hard decision to go. Okay,

(02:09):
now I have to go. Well, the harder decision was
that her parents, sorry, her mother was there because her
dad had died when they went there on a vacation
at four years old, just a village visit the village
and um, so her mother was a widow with four
kids at a very young age, and they were supposed
to leave altogether, but they got word that there was

(02:33):
going to be a letter coming. And they knew in
this small village that if somebody came to deliver a
letter and no one was there to receive it, that's
unusual where they go, you know, where everybody is. So
my mom offered to stay back to get the letter
so that she could the family could go ahead of her,
and then there would be no suspicion arouse, like cover exactly.

(02:56):
And then my dad, he um was born in Grease
and raised in Bulgaria, and oh my god, his story
is so I don't know how much time we have. Okay, Okay,
it's it's who I am. It's exactly who I am,
and we'll lead back to Christian Bush in a second um.
But he wanted it's so sad. But he met a woman,

(03:22):
he had a baby and um they were married, had
a baby, and on December the baby died. And on December, sorry,
on a December the baby was born. On December the
mother died, his wife, and four months later the baby died.
His name was Emil. I didn't know this at all.

(03:42):
I did that show Who Do You Think You Are?
And all of this came out. My dad never told
me that. So he tried to escape Bulgaria. I think
just out of sheer unhappiness and my dad really loved
the idea of America. So tries to escape, gets caught,
goes They say him, if you try to escape again,

(04:03):
we're going to make you an enemy of the state
and we're gonna put you in jail. He does it again,
He gets caught and they put him in a labor camp.
And this labor camp was one of the most severe
labor camps that that at the time. Commun this labor camp,
he gets a job. It's a coal sort of mining
labor camp, and he notices that at the night shift

(04:26):
there are these trains that come in and they pick
up amounts of coal and they take them away. It's
the spec and I'm nervous watching the movie and I
know it's not real, but this is what you're telling
a story about your dad. Yes, and he um. He
bribes one of the guards with a carton of cigarettes
that I guess somebody gave him as a gift on

(04:47):
visiting day. And uh. He wanted to work the night
shift because he knew if he worked the night shift
he had a plan. So he sees the trains come
in he's working the night shift. He says, hey, can
we go down and get some more firewood for the
um fire. They were on a break, It's like two
in the morning, and the guard says, yeah sure. He says,

(05:08):
can I take Richard with me, because you know, easier
to bring more wood back, and goes yeah sure. So
they go down there and they slotted themselves between the
trains where they couldn't be seen, and they started running.
Twenty minutes later they figured it out. He could hear
the dogs barking, and they just ran and ran and
ran and ran. Eventually got away, made their way to

(05:31):
Turkey and trying to make it very slow quick. You
don't have to make it quick, got on a boat
that was my dad got a job on a freighter
boat shoveling coal, and made his way to Philadelphia and
jumped the ship. But what he did was he took
Richard with him as a stowaway because there was no
work for Richard, and so he was stowed away in

(05:53):
the basically the engine room. And Richard and my dad
made it to America, and Richard went on to New
Zealand became a very very successful um businessman. Yeah, and
so here's the thing about that is that I felt
like when you said, what's it like it's seven years old.
I was keenly aware of how lucky my parents felt

(06:19):
that they were. And they always said things like my
dad was always God bless America every single day. And
I felt like, I'm really lucky I live in America,
you know, like I was really proud, and uh, he
never took that for granted. And Christian and I wrote
a song because I thought to myself, I wonder if
courage is handed down? Does courage get handed down? Do

(06:43):
we learn that from somewhere? Do people do people? Can
they do it? And I thought we wrote a song
called Heart He handed down Christian Bush and I because
I really thought it was for my children, for my
my kids like to say this, this guy lives in you.
You know, he's I'd like to ask a couple of
questions about your dad, if that's okay, because holy holy moly,

(07:04):
the fact that he first tried to escape right just
to just to try to leave for a better life,
a lot of bravery there. He got caught, I'd probably like,
you know what, I'm good, I'm good almost. I don't
want to I don't want to go to jail. I
don't want to be labeled a terrorists, basically, is what
they said to him. He does it again, gets caught again. Okay.
So now though, if they would have caught him a

(07:25):
third time trying to leave labor camp, oh, he would
have been shot and killed. I would have killed him, absolutely.
And when I went back to do that program, they
took me to the you know, Hall of records, let's say,
from the Bulgarian government, and he was listed as an
enemy of the state. He had a number. If they
ever caught him, he would have been put in jail
for life. Who knows what else. The other thing I

(07:48):
wanted to go back to is so his first son, Emil,
was born in December. Well, my sister, her daughter, firstborn daughter,
was born in December, and my youngest son, Truman, is
born in December. And I thought all those birthdays that
my dad on December he was celebrating his grandchildren and

(08:13):
also his son. He was there to see them. Yes. Yes,
he died when he was eighty nine. My mom died
when she was ninety three. That also is they lived
to be a wonderfully old age. Yes, all of that.
And when I asked what you were like at seven,

(08:34):
and I can move to thirteen now because I see
the picture of your parents and it's it's it's a
vague picture, but it's a strong picture, right, Like I
would assume that the values they taught you, even maybe
not always purposeful, but just because what was instilled in
them was like we don't stop like we if it's
something we're passionate about, that's what we value. That's what

(08:58):
we asked him. Value were just so big in your
you know, it was huge. Like my dad was a bartender,
my mom didn't work, and my parents were not educated,
but they were very intelligent and they had enormous character,
and uh, it was. It was really fun because my
mom also, you know, she did everything she could so cook.
She made our curtains, our bedspreads, are clothes. Like if

(09:20):
I went shopping for a pair of jeans, I'd be like, oh,
these are cute, and she's like, I can make those.
I'm like, no, Mom, I want a pair of jeans.
Jeans I can buy in a store. Okay, um, but
uh I. I really learned that value of hard work
because I saw how hard my dad worked, and because
he would get tips, he'd bring the tips home and

(09:42):
he would bring them home and you know those purple
felt bags from Crown Royal bottles exactly. He would bring
his tips home in that the coins we on Saturday mornings,
we'd take them all out, Separate out the nickels, the dimes,
the quarters of the pennies. Put him in the little
paper u holes that you know you take to the
bank right the account number on and take him that way.

(10:03):
And I thought to myself, my God, like he raised
a family of three in Hollywood, never had debt, and
I didn't even get a credit card until I was
seventeen because I was like, Dad, I can't get a
credit card unless you get a credit card, so can
you please get one so that I can have one
on your account? And and I think that's amazing because

(10:26):
you probably can't do that nowadays. You know, that's why
you're never late. I mean, I mean that's why. And
we laugh, we honestly we laugh. But that's probably like,
deep down in your guts, that's like, I'm not late
because I need to respect the other people that are
showing up on time because my parents taught me. Like,
that's a really amazing comeback to that part of the

(10:47):
conversation here where you're like, yeah, I'm not late. You
know why you're not late even though you're a big star,
because your parents have been still this in you and
it's still sitting with you today. That is so cool.
That's that's very very nice to think that way. Yeah,
they were just really good people. And I think having
parents that um were immigrants and had accents and things

(11:09):
like that, I remember absolutely feeling like people sort of
treated them differently. And I don't mean that in a
positive way, because they just assumed that they weren't smart
or or not American in that sense, born in America,
and um, there was something about that I think that

(11:32):
allowed it. In a way, it teaches you empathy because
I knew, like, these people are awesome. My parents are
fantastic people, even though somebody may not be treating them
that way. So you kind of connect to that in
a way. So seven years old, I was a really
happy kid and um and very you know, like it

(11:54):
was just a very typical child. Even though it was Hollywood, California,
it was still very typical. Could have been any town, USA.
At number four is Billy Ray Cyrus from episode three
hundred and forty. Billy Ray is a very polarizing guy
when he walks into the room, and he was so
open and honest throughout this entire interview and even brought

(12:16):
his guitar with him and was just randomly going into songs.
So this is definitely one you gotta listen to the
full episode. But this is Billy Ray Cyrus talking about
getting his big break right before he thought about giving
up on music, and the moment he decided to get clean.
Nineteen eighty nine, nine UM nine and one week. I
wrote three of the songs off the album Some Gay Ball,

(12:38):
including Some Gay Ball. I admit a Vietnam veteran in Huntington,
West Virginia at the Little Bar I played that night,
and um, that song happened to be the song that
I played for Harold Ship when after ten years of
being told no for the first time, somebody said yes.
And that was the song that made someone go, hey,
I see like a flicker of something in you right

(13:00):
him in And uh it was actually I was. I
was down. That was gonna be my last try. I said,
if this doesn't work, I better get a job at
the railroad. I had this song, I've written some gay balls,
the song I should play. And then he said, I'm
gonna structure you a little deal, and Mercury Records started
a process of offering me a record deal. And it
took a year or two to make that and the record.

(13:22):
It actually took two weeks to make the record. In
the summer of two weeks, I was living in my
car parked in the parking lot of the music Meal
and we recorded all ten nine tracks during the first
week of June, and I stuck around and saying all
my vocals and did all my harmonies and all my overdubs.
On the second week of June, and then I went

(13:44):
back to my gig in West Virginia and got fired.
A big fistbot broke out and and some guns were involved,
and me and the band stopped playing, and the owner said,
if you don't keep playing, you're fired. So I out
of the highest moment of my life came the lowest,
and I found myself in Richmond, Virginia, at a disco
where they just hated us. I mean they hated everything

(14:05):
we did, except for when we would play this new
song i'd cut called at the time, it was called
Don't Tell My Heart. And I noticed, no matter how
bad they hated us, when I played Don't Tell My Heart,
they packed the dance floor. And and after that I
told Mercury Record said, man, that one song, don't Tell
My Heart. Um, it's a dance song. The even the
boot scooters they'd get out there and scoot them boots

(14:27):
across the floor. And I said, I think that song
might be called achy Breaky Heart because they ought the
drunks or whoever always say play at achy breaky song.
That's how you suggested it. Because the people at the
bar were like, playkey break but it was called Don't
Tell My Heart, and um, don band trist the Vietnam
veteran who ironically wrote the song. When he came to
meet me at the music meal, um, I said, hey, uh, sir,

(14:51):
did you ever think about changing the name of that
song to Achy breaking Heart? And he said, I don't
care what you call it, Let's just get it. Get
him to put it out, and and uh they did,
and did you think? And I have some questions about
if you break her in a minute? But some gave all,
that's that's what you run on my guitar like, and
also have affinity for that song and for the message

(15:11):
when you cut that record, which is some gave all,
that's the title track. Did you feel like that was
going to be like the song for you that represented
who you were? First everything was on the line with
some gay ball because that was big test for me
and my band. One of the things I had insisted
on was I wanted to use my band on the session.

(15:31):
We played every night together and we'd work the songs
up very similar to the Springsteen E Street sound. We
just had a band sound. I said, I really want
to use my band, and Harold Ship said, you know what,
we will try for one song. On January the third,
they gave us a test at the meal, and we
got to cut one song, and we cut some, gave
all and they said, okay, we love it. Let's do

(15:55):
nine more. And they scheduled the nine for the June.
So that's like, oh, man, I gotta live five six
more months. And that's when Don't Tell My Heart came
into my life, and I threw off one of my
songs i'd written and added that one just because it
felt special. Whenever a break your heart, they come to
you and go, hey, want this to be the first single.
Are you like I agree? Or are you like I

(16:17):
don't know. I have these other songs that I feel
very passionate about. I felt like there was the one,
like there was something about it that especially um just
because when we would play it, you could just feel
the energy and the dance floors would pack and again.
By then they I started getting these little jobs at
country clubs where they a lot of bootscoot dancing and

(16:39):
that kind of thing, and and that really wasn't my expertise.
It was more like either I was playing southern rock
or songs I'd written, or George Jones and Johnny Cash
and like the standards of country and uh, but when
I play Aky breaky, they just pack it out and
it just so that was kind of it felt like
a hit, obviously breaking out with a massive song. But

(17:02):
my song was where am I Gonna Live When I get?
I mean, I loved and that video on CMT that
song to me is you thank you? And I don't
know how you feel about that, because I feel you
have me. I do feel like me again. And that
was during the month of May of n nine and
what had happened was the gig got playing West Virginia.

(17:25):
We'd start on Tuesday night. We played Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
and Sunday, so five nights a week, four sets a night.
And on a Tuesday night, I stayed out all night
up to the next morning. And I was married to
a very kind lady in Ohio at the time, and
I didn't come home. It was sunrise Wednesday morning, and

(17:46):
I probably wreaked of liquor and um, maybe some lipstick
on my collar. I don't know, but it was ugly
and I like, the sun's up and my normal neighbors
that have real jobs are going to work and I'm
out in front of the house in that red uck,
that's in the video, and I'm going where am I
going to live? Where am I gonna live? Where am
I gonna live? When I get homeless? I wrote it
right then, Well then I go in, everything goes the crap,

(18:09):
and but I had the song. And then that night
I went back to the gig and I was pretty
down and depressed and sad, and I wrote She's not
crying Anymore on Wednesday, and then I didn't write anything
on Thursday, Friday or Saturday. And on Sunday I met
Sandy Kane and wrote some gay ball. So during that
one week of May, I wrote three of those songs

(18:31):
in UH nine eighty nine during that week, all in
a week. In a week. It's almost Dolly esque when
she goes, you know, I sat down for this day
and I wrote these two songs, And you know, you're like, well,
I know both of those songs you wrote on the
same day. The fact that you kind of nailed those
three in that time period, and I feel like, creatively,
it almost takes things to happen to us to kind
of um create emotion and share emotion. What was happening

(18:56):
in your life that had you feeling these feelings? To
create this dynamic music. You think, I think it was
an excess of alcohol. Um, but it was probably some
I hate to even say there was. It was a
pretty rough time. It was a very excessive alcohol. Just

(19:17):
leave it to that. When you say excessive. Did you
know it was a problem? Are we just partying too hard?
I was actually working. It was like part of my job.
I always had a rule. I said, Okay, I go
play the first set completely straight straight up. Could Yeah.
I felt really good. I always felt like the first
set was like probably my most correct and then um,

(19:38):
the second set, Like in between the break, I might
uh take a little puff and then um, go up
to the second set and I feel lucid. That's probably
the best set of the night. But by the third set,
I'd have a puff uh possibly unfortunately, maybe a snort
um unfortunately. Like then came like it was part of

(19:59):
people partying. Would send me drinks and some of those
drinks would be on fire. Someone would be like double
shots of who knows what, I don't know what it
takes the light of drink up and then blow it
out and drink. But I would do that. It was
so about third set with rocket pretty hard for set.
I was probably legally drunk and unfortunately, Um, Keith Whitley

(20:22):
was from my neck of the woods up there in Kentucky,
and I was a huge Keith Whitley fan, and um,
when he died, that had a big impact on me, like,
I can't finally get to this point where my dreams
about to come true, but yet I have some issues.
So him him having his issues and dying, do you

(20:45):
feel like it was kind of a mirror. He saved
my life. I mean, there's no other way to say it.
He saved my life because my manager, Jack McFadden, was
Keith Whitley's manager, and he was he was like a
son to Jack and Jack at that point, I was
on his roster, but he had never seen me play,
never heard my music, didn't know exactly what it was
that I did, but he knew it wasn't exactly straight

(21:08):
up country. And Jack had managed Merle Haggard and Buck
Owens and Keith Whitley and tragically on May to nine
and again this is nine, um May to night. Um,
Jack was gonna take me to Sony Records for the
first time. Jack was gonna take me anywhere, and again

(21:28):
I don't think he'd even heard any of my songs.
But we had an appointment, so I came down on
the eighth. Tragically, Keith Whitley UH passed away on the
morning of the ninth, and UH the meeting was canceled, obviously,
and I drove back home to Huntington, West Virginia, and
UH played I'm No Stranger to the Rain over and

(21:48):
over and over and over and over. I bet I
played a hundred times between here and Huntington's and UM,
it just had a huge impact on me. And UH, luckily,
and nineteen and ninety one, when I realized that, hey, Cyrus,
you're about to get your chance. This this You've got

(22:08):
the album that everybody seems to really believe something. Well,
they told me, said, man, hang in there, this is
about to happen. And I stopped at a bridge down
here on the harpor somewhere and through all my stuff
into the river, and I said, I can't do this

(22:28):
and and not be my very best stuff working your
stuff do you mean? Do you mean your actual stuff
are drugs? Cocaine cold turkey? I pulled over and threw
my damn cocaine out. Would you have considered yourself an
addict or someone who and I come from a massive
family of addictions. So were you an addict or are

(22:51):
you someone who just enjoyed it but could also if
you needed to stop stop? I don't think I could
stop stop, especially on alcohol, because I drank said so
as a kid, and I ain't had a beer sense
like I mean that I had to stop everything, except
I did say, you know what, having a little puff

(23:11):
every now and then, if marijuana helps me, it's medicine
to me. And uh so I kind of allowed myself
to say, Okay, if you get rid of these two
devil alcohol in the cocaine, you can keep a little
bit of the marijuana because that's kind of your medicine.
And um, and you never look back at. Number three

(23:34):
from episode three forty two is Cheryl Crowe. I rarely
get star struck, but it was so cool having Cheryl
Crow in to do an episode of The Bobby Cast.
So this is probably the closest I've been to star
struck in a very long time. And I had just
watched her documentary on Showtime and I truly believe she
is a living legend. So how cool to have Cheryl
crow just pull up on her own over to Bobby's

(23:56):
house and sit down to do an interview. So this
is number three Cheryl Crow talking about the songs she
doesn't like to perform anymore, working with Michael Jackson, and
what it's like to be famous, and when it comes
to those songs. You know, when you walked in, we're
talking for a second, and you were you to tell
him something of which is that segment we do? And
you know, full transparency here. I do that segment so

(24:17):
many times, and I'm glad it has been a big
part of our show in the six But I do
it all the time, and I've done it all the
time for years and years. You start to go, man,
I know people love it. I don't gotta keep doing it.
Do you feel that way about some of those songs? Okay,
it's funny. I was listening to you guys this morning.
I was like, your show is always so good and

(24:41):
fun and funny has emotionalized. I mean, it's just a
really great show. And I sat there though, I wonder
if he ever just gets sick of doing that show,
you know what I mean, and also being being present
because it's hard work, man, Like, there's some nights where
I walk it on stage and I have to like
fake it until I make it, And generally those are
the best shows. But there was a period where if

(25:03):
I thought I had to play all I want to
do one more time, I would just run straight out
in front of a backdrop. And it took it took
my I mean part of it is. It took my
getting sick to really realize. I mean that song took
me all over all over the Middle East. I mean
we went to Israel, we went to we went to
Tokyo to Kuile I'm poor, and we went all over South.

(25:23):
The people who couldn't speak English sang every word of
that wordy song. And I had I just embraced a
full on gratitude and I enjoy playing it now. But
there were a few years and there I was just like, ah, God,
I'm sticking this song. You know, I hate this song.
I hate this song. Um but I love it. You know.

(25:44):
I think part of what happens is you get older,
you get really you know, you get sentimental, and you
get really grateful, and you get really boring. And I
love being boring. Now. It's cool to reappreciate it is
it is because I've started to find myself reappreciating not
just professional things but also personal things. And so it's

(26:06):
cool that you have because I I live it, and
one day I'm gonna like do and tell me something
good again. One day I'm gonna and I don't. You
can't tell that you don't like it, though, I mean,
I will say that it's not even that I don't
like it. It's that as you do. It's just we
do it four four times a day, five days a week,
twenty times, and individually all the stories are great, but

(26:27):
it's like, man, twenty times again this week you hate now? No, No,
I don't rufus cold cold with me and we go
places and what's funny. Sometimes I'll go into a place,
if it's a bar or a restaurant. I'm gonna bars
as much anymore, but they'll play that song over the
top like once they see I'm there, and like that's

(26:48):
so been associated with I'll just bet or a basketball
game and you're here then and I'll look at me
like and you'll see the guy running pointing at me,
like all right, buddy, So did you ever did you
talk about Stevi Knicks? Did you ever have a relationship
with her, did you guys, Oh my gosh, Like that
had to be the coolest thing. I have so many
weird experiences um with people like that. Okay, So I like,

(27:12):
if you dig back through the anals of my um
my school pictures, I had the Stevie Nicks hair do.
I met her at my first Grammys. I met her
at an after party and I have a picture with
her and Anita Pointer and Bonnie Wright and Carly Simon
and me, and I was the newbie, and She's like,
I love you. Would you I'm getting ready to do

(27:34):
some songs for Practical Magic that that movie. Would you
produce it? And I was like yeah. And she came
to New York and and she had her posse, you know,
some bunch of women, and and I produced her and
it was just it was unbelievable. I can remember looking
at her out in the recording booth and she looked

(27:56):
like a fourteen year old. I mean literally, she looked
like she had aged a day. She looked exactly as
I remembered her. And she just was like so embracing
and so general. It's told stories like I imagine that
we probably talked and hung out for two hours and
then she'd sing, and then we'd hang out and talk
for a couple of hours, and then she'd sing and

(28:17):
it was but it was so glorious. And then she said,
will you produce the record? And I went up producing
and going on the road with her, and she's just
been like very god mom to me. And I don't
want you to say any names here, but I have
had experiences where I really was I loved people, got
to know them, not that goalience people that I would

(28:40):
and I now I don't really idolize except for like
hearts yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So but there
have been times where that's happened and I'm like, why,
I cannot believe I could just spend time we're gonna
do And then you're like, oh man, I kind of
wish I wouldn't have, because it's ruined what I cherished,
which was these beliefs. Yeah, I'm with how massive you got.

(29:03):
I had to assume that happened to some. I will
say I've been really lucky. Almost everybody I've met has
been beyond beyond my wildest dreams. Um, I got a
few people and introduce you to then yeah, I bet
you did a few relatives. Interestingly, I worked with Michael
Jackson before I hit it big. I was a backup singer,
went on the road with him for eighteen months, and

(29:25):
there were some things on that tour. I was just like,
this doesn't make sense. And then later on the documentary
came out, and um, I mean he was. He was
already eccentric on that tour. But people asked me all
the time, are you able to listen to his music?
And I'm like, man, that was the first album I
ever owned. I got it from Santa Claus when I
was five years old. ABC. I grew up watching his
TV show. I you know all that music was. It

(29:49):
was important to me and it definitely changed the way
I felt about him. And but I can still listen
to the music from when he was a kid because
I feel like he was who he was then. He
wasn't who he became. But for the most part, I mean,
I can't really think of anybody that's just been a
douche bag, you know what I mean? What I did
watch the documentary. You have an appearance in it like

(30:12):
that real you were artist? You're right, But what was
it like for you? It was whatever I can tell
you it was worse than that. Whatever you can envision.
It was absolutely awful. And it makes me sad because
the first, the very first one, obviously I wasn't at
The second one was, I mean, euphoric. It was such
a beautiful celebration of the first one. The next one

(30:35):
was what was wrong. It was everything with what was
wrong with what the music business was becoming, which was money, money, money, money,
and it was degrading to women. It was a demonstration
of the worst of what's in us, with people throwing
feces and throwing pennies and water bottles. It was just

(30:56):
a bizarre experience. And even the bill wasn't It was not.
It was not a bill that was sensitive to people
coming together and being a part of something cool and peaceful,
which is what Woodstock is emblematic is pretty was pretty angry.
It was like Andy Dick and then Cheryl Crow and
then the insane clown posse, and it was just like,

(31:16):
what is happening here? I didn't even finish my set.
I mean, at which point Pecs landed on my my
base neck. I was like, yeah, you know what, I
was like, Yeah, I was I just walked up to
the mic, and I was like, I'm done. What is
fame like when you first get just true freaking fame. Yeah,

(31:40):
when you walk into a restaurant and they have a table,
or when you um when you never have to pay
for anything that's always been a weird thing, like they're
gonna send me clothes why? I mean, I'm happy with
the stuff I bought it the you know second hand place. Um,
it's a It does a number on you, for sure,
And the number it did form did on me was

(32:00):
this is this is amazing. I don't know if I
deserve it. So you start questioning yourself. But then the
other part of it is when you stop getting invited
or let's just say, in the in the instances where
you're not the most popular person in the red carpet,
you start feeling and scare. It's like you get this bright,
shiny code of paint and then suddenly they're little cracks

(32:22):
in the veneer, like, well, how do I smooth the
crack out? So I'm still I'm still the most popular
and it really totally doesn't number on you. And then
you start thinking about, Okay, what what do I have
to write to get to stay in the top ten
to keep eatting played at radio, and that's no good either.
You're saying it changes your direction creatively from what do

(32:42):
I have to say too. There's a difference of what
do I have to write people will like, not because
I'm saying it and feeling it, but because I know
I'm trying to chase what they like. Yeah, and then
there is that moment where you're about to turn forty
and you're still popular, but um, everything on the radio
is Britney Spears and Christian Aguilera and their seventeen and

(33:05):
they're wearing schoolgirl outfits and you're about to be forty,
and that doesn't remember because forty doesn't get played at radio.
It's just a weird thing, you know, there's not anything
realistic about it. And I do wonder what girls today
that seemed to be like navigating their own They they're
in control of their social media. They project their images,
and the images sometimes they're sexual, or most of the

(33:26):
time or sexual, and that as long as they're in
control of that, Like how much of it are they
able to Because I don't read even a sentence about myself.
I don't read anything because I'm too sensitive, Like how
do girls now, especially when you're bringing looks into it,
embody image and all that. How do they not? How

(33:49):
is it not demoralizing? Because fame to me was already
like Okay, I'm a really private person and I'm a
really nice person. So and everything I'm reading about myself
is okay, I got my haircut, now I look like
a soccer moment and just like me and stuff. How
does anybody navigate it? I don't. I don't know. It

(34:09):
did a number on me for sure. At number two
from episode three fifty is Gavin DeGraw. This was a
really emotional episode, and I left in all of the
silence that Gavin gave us during the moments where he
got emotional because talking about this album that he did,

(34:33):
about his parents and had to talk about them passing away.
So a lot of emotional moments throughout this entire episode.
And in addition to being such a great vocalist and songwriter,
he is a great storyteller, so they's made for an
excellent episode. This is Gavin DeGraw talking about wanting to
finish his new album before his dad passed and the
moment he got to listen to it and his dad's

(34:54):
reaction to the very first song on this album. So
here is Gavin DeGraw that the new record is really
freaking good. Until I told you before we even came
in here that it's like, this is music that I
listened to when I just get to listen to music.
M and you know, that's how how deep this record hit.
And that's even before I knew the reason you wrote,

(35:17):
recorded and put the record out when you did. And
so I want to start there and and you and
I rarely want to play a song from the front
of the record because then I feel like people go, well,
that's just the first song. So but Face the River
and you know that's the first track. I believe you
sent it to me on what was this service? SoundCloud?
I believe this sound to me a SoundCloud the record.
And so I'm just like car my wife, I'm just

(35:38):
hitting and face whatever comes on. I'm like, god, damg
if every song is like this and it was just
one after the other. And Mike, if you play some
Face the River before me track one, please to face
kid wate thing about their I pictured my my, my,

(36:00):
my mother had already passed, my dad was already diagnosed
um with glib beast Alma. I visualized my father looking
across the river at my mother having to face that
particular point in his in his life. Tough, but but
I think that it's materialized. I didn't want to shy

(36:23):
away from I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't shy away
from it because at the time in my life that
I was writing it, watching you're experiencing these things with
with these people, um, watching them go through the stage

(36:44):
of their life that we all know is coming at
some point. Um. We all we all have some shared destiny.
And uh um, I couldn't ignore. I couldn't ignore what
I was seeing and just go off in my corner

(37:04):
and pretend like there was another world that I could
focus on that it was happening right in front of me.
You know, even if it's a car crash, um, you
know it's uh you have to you have to see it.
And uh, I know what it is, and you know

(37:28):
you're hoping that the results aren't going to be as
bad as they are, but you know, it's a car crash,
um and uh I had to document it. I had
to document how how I felt and what I thought
maybe he felt. Uh. You know, it's art. Man. It

(37:52):
it's not product, it's it's art. And and it should reflect,
it should reflect a real moment and time and and
uh and it's it's called a record, man, you know,
a record, A record, a documents, something permanent. We should

(38:14):
make a record of where we're at and have that
be so it's known. This is what it was, this
is what happened, you know, just the way you look
at any piece of history. Um. And then that's what
it is. You put it his track one. It's such
a powerful song. And obviously it's the name of the record.
And you know, sometimes the record is named after the track.

(38:37):
You know, there's never just a layout of what the
order is supposed to be meaning. So that is, if
not the most, one of the most powerful songs on
the record, and it just you turn you play the
record for a song boom punch right in the gut,
a beautiful punch in the guy. I mean in a
way of like you emotionally are are stung by it.

(38:59):
Usually that didn't happen on track one. Want you you
went forward immediately? Was there any sort of symbolism there
with that? Um? Well, I think the main thing was
this is a different kind of record, and that was
the that was the big thing. It was, you know,
just letting the audience know that this is different, it's

(39:21):
very different. Um uh, and more preparing them for everything else.
You know, boy, you did I mean that? And to
also hear that story because this record not only important
because it's music, it's art that you're putting into the world.
But and I know you and I talked about this
in a in a different place, but you wanted to

(39:42):
make this, write this record, record this record and have
it ready, um, for your dad before he passed away.
Did you have any sort of idea like how fast
you needed to actually get this done? No, but I
didn't know it was you know, I knew it was bad. Um.

(40:03):
But you know there's no there's not ever an exact
time as you know, um, but it's a limited time.
And was there a rush on you? Did you feel
like I gotta work fast? I don't. I just I
that's a that's a it's a timeline that you've gotta follow,
but you don't actually know words correct, correct exactly. There's

(40:23):
no exact deadline that you're aware of, right, Um, you know,
weeks and weeks earlier he's in the hospital, he says
to me. It was hard for him to talk because
the where the tumor was, and he was saying to
me a bit like marble mouth is how he was
trying to having to communicate. Unfortunately, um hm, he said,

(40:47):
you know, I want to hear the music. You know,
aren't you playing me the music? I said, it's not
done yet, Dad. I want you to hear it, like I.
Aren't you hear one it's right. It's really important to
hear when it's right. You gotta hear one it's right.
I'm like really uptight about, you know, my job, and um,
come on, blame me something, blame me something. I'm in

(41:08):
the hospital with my sister and uh and uh, I said,
let me okay, okay, let me let me see, let
me see, let me see you. I reach out to
Dave Cobb, I say, and my dad's in the hospital.
He's really really begging me for these songs. Is there
anyway just to send me a mix of just just
a couple of songs. I love for him to hear

(41:30):
a couple of songs, just a couple of songs that
really help. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah sure. So a couple
of minutes later, he sends me three songs. Sends me
Face the River and Destiny and uh Summertime and uh
and uh. Um. So your dad starts crying when he

(41:51):
hears the first high note of of the chorus of
Face the River. He's really feel on it right away,
you know, um, really reacting. And I played the songs,
the three that I had, and he says, I wish
your mother could heard these. I wish you could hear

(42:12):
this right now, this record. And I says she wrote
the record, that she wrote the record. He says she did.
She did write the record. So we's go by. I'm
trying to finish the album because I know the state
is not good. Um. Album is done. I take it

(42:36):
to him immediately. I said, dadd you want to hear
the album, the whole album now. He said yeah, yeah.
So I put headphones on, turn it up so I
could hear where it's at, you know, loud enough. He
likes it loud anyway, And we go straight through the record,
top of bottom, and he's so moved and mm hmmm.

(43:02):
I said, you want to hear it again? Played for
me again. Later, let's do it later. I said, good, okay,
But my brother and I we hop in the car,
we take a drive. A half hour later, half hour
after I finished playing that record, phone rings and my
dad's having an emergency. They need to take him to

(43:24):
the hospital immediately. There was some kind of complication and
so he's taking the hospital and put on heavy drugs
and you know, for the next day and a half. Um,
he's just on heavy drugs for that you know, that
slow boat ride out you know. Um. So however, the
timing worked out, without exaggeration, got to play him the

(43:49):
whole record in the nick of time, and um, and it's, uh,
that's a little bit of closure I get. Um is
that is that I got to give him that that
experience and say, you know this is you know your

(44:12):
dedication you know. So Um, very hard. But but damn
I hate crying. I mean I appreciate the vulnerability. I mean,
you could tell the love that you have for your
mom and your dad. You can also tell when you

(44:33):
listen to this record. I mean, even if you didn't
know why, that's just someone just came across this record
on playlist, not even individual songs. May you may like
Gavin de Girl Faced the River, I think you would
listen to this and go, well, something's got him, Yeah,
like something, because it just feels different. It feels like
there's there's Yeah, it feels like there is. It feels

(44:57):
very deliberate in the in the most beautiful way. And
at number one from episode three hundred and sixty four
is Ronnie Dunn of Brooks and Dunne. Not only does
Ronnie have a great singing voice, I also just love

(45:17):
his speaking voice. He could be talking about his grocery
list and I would find myself just being sucked into
every single word that leaves his mouth. So in every essence,
this entire interview was just fun to listen to. But
he shared stories that I had no idea about, stories
that you can't find online anywhere. One of those happened
to be the time he lived in Johnny Cash's cabin,

(45:39):
and that's where you're gonna hear in this clip also
about the origin story of Brooks and Dunn and getting
the call out of the blue to move to Nashville.
So the number one Bobby cast of Ronnie Dunn of
Brooks and Dunn. Scott Hendricks took the type to Tim Dubois,
who was starting her to records at the time. And

(46:01):
just trying to fill in a balanced roster. And uh,
Clive Davis was was behind it. Of course that never
hurts uh at a time in the business when it
was not a great, great time to to start a label.
But tell Clive Davis that. Right. So Tim comes out
and here and here's me in in Tulsa because he's

(46:22):
from Grove, Oklahoma. Here's this play and he goes, Okay,
after we get through, he texting back and he goes, Okay,
I'm gonna tell you this. He says, hold tide for me.
He says, just like I'm going somewhere, right, Yeah, right,
I got the other side of the fence to Wheatie. Uh.
And he says, I'm I'm putting the record labor together
all Alan Jackson and Pam tell Us diamond Rio And

(46:45):
he said, I'm I'm up to something here. She says,
if you're just just have a little faith in patience
in me, I'm will go there. So you know, a
year later, I didn't heard anything from him. Yeah that's
a lot of patience. Yeah, well, where else do you go?
I don't have a choice. Yeah, uh as sure enough,
I Uh, Janine comes down one day and tells me
to put the weed either down and come up to

(47:06):
the house get on the phone, and she says, I
called him to boyd and see what's going on because
I'm just I'm sure I wouldn't do that, you know,
And she's not. I called him and he goes, mr.
He said, this is unreal. Said, I'm sitting here with
my rollo decks right now looking for your number. And
I went, no, you're not, and he goes, yes I am,
because I want to cut boots, goot boogie. I'm thinking

(47:27):
the flash me with me. He goes with a Sleep
at the Wheel. So I just signed myself, okay, great,
you know, knock it out, and he said, come down
to Nashville. He says, I'm gonna, you know, talk to
you when we get through and listen to the record.
So what with? Janine and I got in this car
and drove to Nashville, and uh it was. He played
it for us and it's Sleep at the Wheel did

(47:48):
of course as a swing song, bomp bomb and I
thought it, I thought, and we both just went Jennie
and I were like, oh, it's not gonna work. I'm
gonna fly and uh so they ran through their cycle
there and then uh, finally Tim said, okay, it's time
to move here. You know this is your your layters,
you're after that, he said, time to move here, he said,

(48:10):
and I'll get you. I'll get you hooked up as
a as a writer at one of the publishing companies.
And uh, he just called out all the blue. One
day after June Carter had already called. Janina said, uh,
she called her witter witter patch that was that was
your name is married name. Uh, she's a wider. Uh
would you mind even Ronnie maybe staying at having written

(48:33):
one of the cabins up on the mountain, which was
outside town in Gillittsville. And uh, Janina started crying. She
was like, oh my god, yes please, I'll be close
to June as a friend of hers and all this.
So we did, uh I uh, Tim put kicks and
now together to write with another another writer in town.
Don cook, don't don't jump ahead. Hold on, Okay, did

(48:55):
you ever go meet Johnny Cash? She drove, Yes, she
brought me into to meet him. Where to his house
in Hendersonville. Are you nervous? Yeah, I'm scared of death.
I don't want to meet them and I know they're thinking, hey,
you know she's bringing you know, I want to be
singer into my house, just just like what I would
do with one of my daughters, just like ah please right.

(49:16):
Uh So June takes her out, and you know, just uh,
John had just given June a blue on blue rolls
Royce for her birthday. You know. So we rolled up
to their house and all this austentatious stuff is outside,
and uh go in nervous, more nervous as you walk closer. Okay,

(49:37):
it gets worse. So the girls after after day one,
you know, we all stopped and eat all this stuff.
John's real quiet, He's quite at first, you know, and
he says, she's intimidating anyway, right, And then under those circumstances,
I'm going, you know, I don't I don't wanna, you know,
I wanna be here like this. So the next day,

(49:58):
June and Janine go shopping and leave me and John
alone at the house. Well, there were two big black
recliners in front of the TV like on at wall,
and uh, he's sitting there watching CNN and I just
sat down with a cover of coffee and I sat there,
I said, uh, something going on in the news, and

(50:19):
he goes, I always watch it, always watching. He says,
I'm an addict. And he says, I'll watch the TV
until the loop changes. He says, you know that the
CNN and all that stuff around loops and I'm like no,
and uh, he goes, I just watched it two loops whatever.

(50:40):
You know. That was kind of the only thing I remember.
It just kind of didn't say much. He's like, you
want to go fishing? What are you doing? You want
to be in music? Nothing like that. So Janine gets
back and she's kind of pale. She's kind of like down,
and that's not like her because she's a chatter. And uh,
finally we went back to the to the bedroom and

(51:00):
she she said, how did it go? And she goes, well,
June just gave she read of me the right act.
You know. She goes, look, you know, because Rodney and
Roseanne had been been married, and the girls, Carline and
all of them, and Junior had her struggles with John too,
and she said, uh, it's it's it's not a it's
not a pretty business. She goes, you know, these these boys,

(51:21):
she they're gonna act up on you, you know, they're
gonna get out there and theoretically do whatever. And she says,
you know, it's just not it's not a good life.
Even if he does make it. She said, the chances are,
you know, one in a hundred million that they, even
if they make it, will they last. She's just you don't,
you don't. You don't want that life. You don't have

(51:41):
to have that life. So Janice said, I'm you know,
that's just kind of bummed me out. And I said, well, okay,
let's let's go. But we didn't. We stayed and and
and had had had a good time. But that was
just kind of what we were left with there. But
at the same time, June was kind enough, uh to
to do whatever they could to help, and they did.

(52:03):
And half the time, more than half the time, I
would go to go up to take the rent or
play the rent six hundred bucks or something like that.
This house looked like something did Johnny's house. He would
take the rent to Johnny Casch's house. Yeah, and just
drop it away. They had like a hole for the thing.
They wouldn't take it. No, Junie, I'd like June number
run over and and leave the rent. And she goes honey,
don't do that. She said, don't do that. Yeah, you don't.
There's no need for you to do that. Weren't worried

(52:24):
about that, uh anyway, so that they wouldn't take it.
Did they ever take your rent? No? How long did
you live there? Uh? Year and a half? Two years? No?
Two years? Did did you ever get closer to Johnny? Uh? Yeah,
oh yeah, yeah? No. No. Johnny would come up. There
was another it's a little enclay with cabins and a
good list on the top of the hill that uh

(52:46):
they had built real cool and uh. He would come
up and stay and spend the weekends and stuff sometimes
up there just to be alone. And he'd stop at
the house and uh and I told him, right, okay,
I get a record deal with their stuff as a
solo artist as well. I'm thinking as a solo artist.
And I'm still writing and and Tim says, uh, one

(53:09):
day he goes come over here. He says, we're gonna
spend the day and I'm gonna take you to every
publishing company in town. And I had written, like she
said to Neon moon Boots could hard working man. She's
be alling that kind of stuff. Uh. No, one actually
super excited, and he goes, but I'm I'm waiting to
take you to to Sony a TV for to Donna
Hilly and he said that that's where I want you.

(53:31):
He said, that's that's in his period, but the best
place in town. So, uh sure enough, she calls one
day and says, hey, I'm gonna give you a deal.
She said, then I've been how does like you know
a month sound? And I was like, I'll take it now.
And uh so I was set up as a writer

(53:52):
in in in a great spot and uh Tim put
me and Tim Kicks together and I'm thinking, but you've
heard this story, but a lot of people have, but uh,
Kicks just thinking, well, he's writing songs with me for
my solo deal. Unbeh honest to me, he had been
working on another duo deal at Aras for him, Yeah,

(54:15):
him and someone else, Yes, Tim, Tim Nichols's who the
first one was. And I heard that had I not
worked out, it was gonna be Leroy Pardell. That's funny,
how about it? They were shopping Kicks to a lot
of really good It was like, Kicks, you're half of
something great. You're gonna be Yeah, You're gonna be buddy.
You know you want to be in a duo. Uh,

(54:36):
it sounds like three duos all you know. I don't know.
You have to ask Kicks. I don't know, but he'll
he'll tell the same story. He said. Man, I thought,
you know, he was writing for me and I'm writing
for him. So, Uh, Tim comes in one day and
he has everything in his office lined up and uh
plays plays all of our music together, you know, and
he goes I think. I think with the first song

(54:59):
that with that we had written together was a brand
new man. Uh, and working on my next broken Heart?
And uh what else? You wrote that in a day
or in a week, like a couple of days together?
But you stay together, right for a couple of days. Yeah.
I'd never co written before, so I didn't know, you know,
what the protocol was. And uh we did that, put

(55:21):
the records together and did you know, some work on
them individually ourselves. Was there a creative chemistry that you
felt then or was it did you just sound good
or did you compliment each other in a way that
you hadn't before? Just it felt good. I liked I
liked what he had brought to the table. It was
lost and Found in a couple of songs that were
like almost Eagles progressive, and I liked that that kind

(55:45):
of I was really, you know, in my creative zen place,
thinking if we were gonna market ourselves as kind of
a southwestern east west of the Mississippi, you know, desert
kind of, then that's southwest deal? Did you guys, and
let's we'll just smash forward just a little bit. But
did you guys ever have other names for the group?

(56:08):
That for Brooks and Done? Yeah, we sit for a day.
It was gonna be the Coyote Brothers, you know, the
Cactus Brothers. We don't know. We sat and filled up
a notebooks and finally it just you know, I left
town and came back for after a weekend. Everybody said,
let's just call it Brooks and Done. Yeah. They were
just exhausted of all that that desert references. So nothing

(56:28):
felt right. You know, I don't know, how does it?
Because you're both singers, and I've been to more than
a few shows that you guys and kick sings awesome.
It's too awesome too. And he has he has I
mean he kicks has. Yes, How how was that his names? First?
And then you get to sing more songs, or like,

(56:48):
how does that when you're both good? Here's the name,
Here's how the name thing worked out, and people go
how that happened? It's like his brother in law owned
a big ad company up in Maine. We wanted to
logo back, so we kind of laid out the basics
and who came back with the you know the Brooks
have done because it laid out graphically better. Uh, they're stylist.

(57:09):
Could be done in Brooks, but Brooks have done. You know,
by now it just seems natural. You know, the Beatles, right,
what a freaking name? Really? Who would you call yourself? Yeah?
It sounds successful, you are normal. The name gets yeah, yeah,
when did it get the most absurd to you with?
And again, but you guys are also in their thirties
right when it started. I wonder if that helped it
all with a little bit of the absurdity of how

(57:29):
crazy it got it did it did and a lot
of the challenges we would have had. You know, you
kind of helps you like fight through the kind of
the unspoken ego tension that goes along with with anything
you're trying to establish. Your turf is you know, are
you going to be the you know, the lead singer
or am I going to be the lead singer? Hey,
we're good to throw it together. We we always have.

(57:50):
It's just kind of and I think being older helped
help deal with that. When you're doing these shows and
they're selling out and you guys are crossing over even
a bit into not just country music. We got so big,
like at its most absurd time, do you can you
look back and appreciate it or was it all such
a blur? No? We can look back and appreciate it,

(58:11):
you know. No, No, you you appreciate what you have.
And and just just from seeing I mean other acts
come along, you know, countless acts come along. It's like,
here's the hottest thing in town, here's these guys are
gonna be monsters and all that stuff, and just like
boom boom gone. It's like, why are we not boom
boom gone? I don't know, that's unspoken. Yeah, did you

(58:32):
ever have what they call, um mike, what is it
called the imposter syndrome? Where you felt like, you know what,
we're not as good as some of these guys, yet
we continue to climb places that they're not like we
don't really deserve to be here? Do you feel like that? Yeah? Sincerely? Yeah,

(58:53):
why do you think that? What do you think the
element was about? You two? What do you think it was?
I don't thought that. We thought about a billion times.
That's like me, we you mean kicks. I mean we've
talked about it. I don't know. I don't know if
you know. I mean I do. Sometimes I said, I'll
lay in bed by myself and just go it's just
I mean, was it because we were involved with Clive

(59:14):
Davis and Tim. I've asked him Dubo, I said, what
what made this thing work? And he goes, Mr, I
don't have a clue. What about the songs? Right? Do
you ever just fall back and go, yeah, I think
just could be the songs. Well they say it starts there,
so it could be just what those songs were, you know,
and there's obviously other things that go into the stew.

(59:35):
But if the songs are your meat, that's the foundation
of it all. That's that's a bar on, That's that's
where it starts. There, you have it. The Top Ten
Bobby Cast of two will return next week with brand
new episodes, and if there's anybody you think we need
to have on the podcast this year, slide into our

(59:56):
d m send us Those request were on Instagram at
the Bobby Cast, also on TikTok at the Bobby Cast.
And if you're looking for something else to listen to,
I host a movie podcast called movie Mics. Movie podcast
with spoiler free reviews, interviews with actors and directors, So
just search movie Mic wherever you listen to podcasts, or
find the link in the notes of this episode. My

(01:00:19):
name is Mike D and we'll talk to you next
time here on the Bobby Cast.