July 25, 2024 • 30 mins
In this episode of Our Skin, we're joined by world-class athlete Mandy Marquardt of the USA Cycling National Team to discuss her experience as an Olympic hopeful living with psoriasis.
Mandy shares how being diagnosed with psoriasis threw her for a loop, even as she continued to train at an elite level. Mandy also opens up about the importance of her support network and the role it played in helping her navigate this unexpected challenge.
But that sense of community wasn’t always available to people with chronic disorders. After Mandy’s inspiring story, host Holly Frey takes us through the little-known and emotional history of the isolation faced by those with psoriasis in the past and what we all can learn from the history of our skin.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Our Skin, a personal discovery podcast. I'm your host,
Holly Fry, and it is wonderful to have you here
with us. Connection is what this show is all about,
specifically connecting about things that we're sometimes afraid to talk about. Today,
we're going to be exploring the ups and downs, past
and present, personal and universal troubles we have with our skin.
(00:24):
Our skin is our most visible organ. What happens on
our skin affects the rest of our lives, especially when
dealing with a chronic condition. Getting diagnosed with one of these,
like psoriasis, can be overwhelming, but you're not alone. Each
episode features a personal story of resilience and grace, but
our personal stories are threads in a larger tapestry, and
(00:46):
there are lessons for us in the history of how
we treat our skin and the progress we've made together.
Caring for our skin is caring for ourselves. Whether you're
seeking inspiration for your own journey or curious about the
history of our skin, you'll find empathetic, transformative conversations here
on Our Skin.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Today.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
With me on the show is Mandy Marquart. Mandy started
biking when she was just ten years old, and she
won a junior's.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Gold medal at the age of eleven.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
By twenty one, she had made her sport her full
time gig as a part of the USA Cycling national team.
She has raced internationally at the Pan American Championships, the
UCI World Cups, and UCI World Championships. She is a
twenty seven time US national champion and holds five US
national records.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
At about the age.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Of sixteen, she was diagnosed with type one diabetes and
shortly thereafter psoriasis. So having two chronic conditions threatened to
end her career, not least because of the emotional impact.
And I am so grateful because Mandy is here today
to share her story and extend hope to our listeners.
What happens on our skin tells a story, but a
(01:58):
lot of that story is also in the mental health impact.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So we're going to talk about that a good deal.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So Mandy, first of all, thank you so much for
being here and talking with us.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Thanks Holly, and thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh it's my great pleasure. You were quoted as saying
starting to get really self conscious because psoriasis was taking
away your emotional energy. I want to hear from you
how that played out because you were still training to
be an Olympian when all of this was going on,
which is already everyone knows incredibly mentally taxing. So how
(02:33):
did those layers of mentally taxing things impact you and
you know, lead to this point where you were really
feeling drained.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I'll backtrack a little bit because I was diagnosed with
type on diabetes at the age of sixteen, and it
was shortly after that I noticed that I started to
have some psoriasis. At that point, I didn't even know
actually what it was. I just thought it was dandriff. Yeah,
I was on my scalp only, and it wasn't until
I was just at the point, maybe ten years later.
(03:03):
I waited that long to actually do something about it
because I went to the dermatologist and she's like, oh,
it's probably just serbatic dermatitis, because a lot of people
confuse that with siisis as well. And it wasn't until
then I got a biopsy from my scalp and it
actually was a bit of both, so I had to
figure out a way to treat both. Yeah, it was
(03:25):
a really difficult time. I am always under a helmet,
but then when I take my helmet.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Off, like I was very self conscious.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I was already dealing with type one diabetes and a
lot of that burden of like can I get back
to competing?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Can I just want to get my health under control.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I also have hypothyroidism, so it's like a synergy between
like all these autoimmune Right, there's so many things happening
that I didn't know where to start.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, I imagine there was also not a ton of
talk about like, oh, you're dealing with these medical issues
that need to be addressed. I don't know how much
talk there was going on about, hey, we also need
to find you ways to cope with the mental stress
that comes with that.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Yeah, there was not a lot of conversations because when
I was at the hospital in Germany, there wasn't a
lot of support. I had a doctor tell me I
would never be able to compete at a high level
in my sport because of my diagnosis of type one diabetes,
and so I just have all these negative things associated
with a diagnosis that SASIS just was.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
For me like another burden.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
There are also athletes across a number of sports right recently,
tennis players like Cocoa Goff and Naomi Osaka come to
mind that have spoken out and in some cases even
withdrawn from competition in the interest of prioritizing their mental health,
have their decisions, and those kinds of discussions about mental
health and competitive sports made things a little bit easier
(04:52):
for you in terms of talking about it and addressing
it head on.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
I'll say yes and no. So first no because people assume, oh,
she's making excuses because it's just another mental health discussion.
But I try to always angle it from a positive light,
like I'm very in tune and aware of my body,
Like it's not necessarily me.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Not wanting to be out there.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
That's what I want to do every day, and I
want to train and I want to compete. But what
we do is a very high stress environment. We travel,
lack of sleep, you know, we train twice a day,
You eat different foods like on a plane, and then
when you go to different countries. All those things do
affects aiasis and inflammation in the body. And so I
notice these flare ups happen when I'm under stress, and
(05:37):
just to kind of be more knowledgeable in that space
and just have more awareness is easier for me to
talk about because before I was just like, I don't
know I had a flare up. I don't know why.
So now I am able to talk about why, and
sometimes I don't feel like I need to explain myself.
But it's more so for the awareness side and using
my platform and also just communicating with my coach, is
(06:00):
in my family, like, hey, I'm having another flare up,
and it's not just I used a bad product on
my hair or a bad shampoo.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's more than that.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Right, I mean you just basically kind of open the
door to this because you mentioned that this is always
a high pressure thing. There is always a level of
vulnerability in being on the public stage essentially all the
time when you are doing your job. How did your
psoriasis diagnosis impact your mental health in terms of knowing
that people were always looking at you.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, a lot of people think sometimes they're just like
you have it so under control. A lot of what
I have is more so invisible, like my thyroid and
my scalp and my pancrea is like all these things
are invisible conditions you don't see. So for myself, it's
just managing my stress and having like a plan with
(06:52):
my coach and really communicating and Yeah, it's a very
high stress environment, and so it's just controlling what I
I can and just communicating effectively with those around me,
because at the end of the day, I missed one
training session or two, it's not the end of the world.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Do you ever find Now this is admittedly from the
point of view of a layman like myself, who if
there is something that so much as lightly itches on
my person, it is going to distract me just constantly.
So I'm wondering, does your psoriasis, which comes with a
variety of symptoms, ever interfere with your performance ability? And
(07:28):
if it does, how do you overcome it? What are
your tips and tricks to get through something like that?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
I would say, before I was diagnosed with psoriasis and
started getting on medication, it was affecting me very much.
I was very self conscious wearing black shirts when I
took off my helmet, having to stand if on my shirt,
but like already taking the steps to be proactive about
like the shampoo or like what is it? I couldn't
(07:55):
figure it out, and yeah, I would pick it because
it's just like I just want to get rid of it,
but I'm obviously making it worse. And it was like
patches on my scalp, and it would be sensitive too.
If I got like a hair treatment and stuff like
it would burn. And I just like remember competing and
taking off my helmet and just feeling really self conscious
all the time. And then it wasn't until finding out
(08:17):
what it is and how I can treat it that
I was more confident wearing darker clothing. I still would
have like some flare ups here and there, but I
was so relieved that I didn't have to feel like
I have to pick it off because it was healing.
The skin was healing, and I had my husband like
look at my scalp like every week, like his hous
it look.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
He's like it's pink, and I'm like, that's good. That
means it's failing. It was, like I.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Would say, pretty life changing because it was just consuming
me in a lot of ways more than I thought
because of what I wore and how I felt and how.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I did my hair right.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
I didn't really realize until I actually got treatment.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Obviously, you experienced this immense sense of relief. Did you
notice it also impacting your mental health in terms of
your performance? Were you just able to apply that much
more focus to your work, or it was there just
a general overall improvement that made everything in your life easier.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I will say there I was an improvement because I
wasn't dwelling and stressed about what was happening on my scalp.
I was able to shift more of like my energy
to the bike and training and competing. So it was
it was definitely a positive all around.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
There is an aspect to this. Any chronic disorders, especially
ones that show up on your skin. And I know
you said, you know, when you're writing and you have
your helmet on, nobody sees it. But then when you
take the helmet off and you would be wearing darker clothes,
it would make you self conscious, and I know that
can be incredibly isolating.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Once you found treatment.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And your mental health change, what was the first moment
that you really noticed like, oh, I'm slightly different than
I was before we figured out this problem.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
I remember just being pretty incident. Once things started to heal.
I also just had then better hygiene. It wasn't my
helmet causing this issue, but I was like, you know what,
I should probably clean my helmet pads more. I should
probably not leave my helmet on when I'm at training
on the track in between efforts, because I'm a sprinter,
(10:20):
so I just go out there, do an effort, and
come back right so I am able to then take
off my helmet and just be more aware of like
letting my scalp breathe.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
There was something you said earlier that really struck me
as very sweet and charming, where you were saying that
you would have your husband look at your scalp and
you would get his impression of it. What are some
other ways that you stay connected and grounded and supported
even though you know your family and friends may not
understand everything that comes with this diagnosis because they're not
(10:49):
living it. But how are the ways that you maintain
that support and connection.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Through good communication. My husband, he understands. He's not trying
to basically cure me. He's just there as in my
support system. I don't need him to fix every problem.
He knows that I'm on top of my medication and
my doctor's appointments.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Even for him. I make his doctor's appointments.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Yeah, I was dermatology appointment that I literally just had
set up.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
He was there next to me, and he's like, well,
I guess.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So since my wife is here and is making it
like we're definitely we're definitely a team in a lot
of ways. He's also competing at a really high level,
and so yeah, we're both just supporting one another. And
my mom she's very on top of her skin health
and so she was very supportive and finding kind of
a solution for me for this issue and back ten
(11:42):
years ago. So yeah, it's just having those conversations. Is
really it that that really brought a lot to the surface.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I'm so in awe of you because you have conquered
several diagnoses of chronic conditions, and you are an elite athlete,
which I can't even imagine. You have accomplished so much.
I'm curious what else is in your future. A little
bird told me that you were getting an MBA. Are
you just like a superachiever in all things?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Maybe it's slightly the German in me, but it's always
been about having balance.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
I was a full time athlete for a number of
years without going to school. After I graduated from undergrad
from Penn State, I just focused on cycling.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
But I just found that to.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Be like just too much, and I was like, I
need to add something to it. I'm doing one class
at a time and so that is plenty, Like, I
don't know if I can handle more. I actually took
the semester off to focus on Olympic qualification. But yeah,
I focused more so on cycling. But then I knew
I needed to add something in to just get my
(12:48):
brain kind of moving in a little bit of a
different way.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I missed it. I missed school.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
As is obvious from Mandy's story, navigating a chronic condition
like she has is rarely a straight path, and as
she shared, it can feel really, really lonely if no
one knows or understands what you're going through. After this break,
we step back in time to when that isolation was literal.
Hang tight because we have more. In a minute, welcome
(13:28):
back to our skin. Imagine a time when we just
knew so much less about conditions like psoriasis. We have
come a long way, but it's useful to remember that
our understanding of our skin is always moving forward. For
many centuries, those suffering from visible skin conditions like psoriasis
faced significant social stigma, leading to their isolation and just
(13:52):
being singled out in society. A major driver of this
stigma and isolation with sheer ignorance. Even though dermatologists began
to understand the internal origins of syriasis as early as
the mid nineteenth century, many non specialist doctors continued to
attribute the condition to uncleanliness and even parasites. This misunderstanding
(14:15):
led most people to believe that syriasis was contagious, and
they confused it with other skin disorders, and as a result,
sriasi's patients were regarded as contagious and therefore dangerous. This
concept of stigmatization actually dates back to the ancient Greeks,
who used the term stigma to describe marks on the
body that represented something evil and unusual. These marks were
(14:40):
often cut or burned into the skin of traitors or
criminals or enslaved individuals, effectively branding them so that others
would avoid them in public. Earliest written records of stigma
being applied to people with skin disorders come from the
Greeks and other Mediterranean societies. For many years, people have
dealt with their feet of skin conditions by isolating the
(15:02):
sufferers and sometimes forcing them to announce their presence by
wearing a bell around their neck or carrying a clapper.
There's actually a nineteenth century illustration from Paris that shows
exactly what this looks like. It's a guy carrying a
clapper and he's holding it out in front of him,
and he had to keep making the noise as he
traveled so that people knew he was coming and they
(15:23):
could avoid him. France, interestingly has one of the more
well documented records of discrimination against people with skin disorders.
For example, in thirteen thirteen, King Philip the Fair ordered
Srias's patients to be burned at the stake. Sorias's patients
have also been required to make sure they were easily
(15:43):
recognizable and thus avoided, and this marked them, of course,
as outcasts in society, so they weren't able to interact
with or touch so called healthy people. Their entire existence
was defined by this condition, which was misunderstood, and as
a consequence, they were relegated to mixing only with others
who suffered similar conditions. But in a lot of societies,
(16:07):
people with psoriasis weren't just stigmatized, they were outright banished.
One of the earliest places where those with skin conditions
were sent was Saintoyen established in four sixty. It sits
on the Italian border, not far from where Italy meets
with Switzerland and France. Other colonies quickly followed in France,
such as Challons Orson in five point seventy and Verdun
(16:30):
in six point thirty four. These places were primarily run
by religious orders inspired by biblical accounts of divine healing.
The prevailing belief among those who ran these enclaves was
that quote external disease mirrored an internal sinful soul, so
they thought if they could minister to the soul, it
would help heal the body. Later in the United States,
(16:54):
patients were also confined to remote settlements. Beginning around eighteen
sixty seven, patients would various skin disorders, including psoriasis, were
sent to Kalaupapa, Hawaii, on the island of Molokai, ninety
two years before Hawaii officially became part of the US
as a state. Thousands lived and died there in the
intervening years, including a later canonized saint, Father Damian de Veuster,
(17:18):
a Belgian priest who was canonized in two thousand and
nine for his selfless care of patients in Kalaupapa in
the eighteen hundreds. He served for sixteen years and is
buried at Saint Philamina Roman Catholic Church in Calaou Papa.
After a brief disinterment and dismemberment, his hand was deemed
a relic when his body was moved to Belgium in
(17:39):
nineteen thirty six, but he was reburied in his entirety
back in Hawaii in nineteen ninety five. But to go
back to people isolated with skin conditions, that isolation naturally
took its toll. The separation from society and loved ones,
combined with the harsh conditions and stigmatization that they endured,
(18:00):
deeply affected those who were sent to these settlements. The
mental health impacts were serious. Akin to what we know
today about solitary confinement in prison, sensory deprivation, lack of
human interaction and physical restrictions can all cause anxiety, insomnia,
even hallucinations, paranoia, and decreased brain.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Function, as well as withdrawal.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
We also recognize today that stress can have a significant
impact on physical health, and that played out with many
of these exiled patients. Their isolation was so complete that
most of the patients died within a decade of their arrival.
By two thousand and eight, the Hawaiian settlement's population had
dwindled to just twenty four and by twenty fifteen only
(18:45):
six people remained their full time, despite having long been cured.
And I want to be very clear here that though
this settlement is known mostly as a place where people
with leprosy were sent, there were people sent with the
like psoriasis and other skin conditions that all got lumped
under the same umbrella, even though they were dealing with
(19:06):
different things, and some were contagious and some were not.
Now a lot of the residents that are there, who
are in their eighties and nineties, first arrived on the
island as children, and to them that is their life.
We're going to share a quote from doctor Sylvia Haven,
who was a doctor at the Islands Hospital, who told
the New York Times in nineteen seventy one quote, when
they came here, the law guaranteed them a home for life,
(19:28):
and they can't be taken away. But it's a little
bit interesting because for some people that idea of home
for life felt a lot more like a prison, even
if it was a very beautiful and picturesque one. The
first colony like this in the continental United States existed
in Carville, Louisiana, that operated from eighteen ninety four to
(19:49):
nineteen ninety nine, and it was known for housing leprosy patients.
Patients have been free to leave Kalaupapa since nineteen sixty nine.
Thirty years later, Carvil's remained patients were also offered a
choice between moving on with an annual stipend of forty
six thousand dollars, remaining at the facility, or being transferred
(20:10):
to a home for elders, and in both Kalaupapa and Carville,
many people chose to stay, having grown accustomed to what
The New York Times described in two thousand and eight
as quote the counterintuitive twinning of loneliness and community. Craig Haney,
a social psychologist and leading expert on solitary confinement and
its impacts on brain health, said quote, if you've been
(20:32):
in solitary confinement for years, decades, even, it's changed who
you are, It's changed your psychological DNA. You turn into
somebody else that somebody else may or may not be
transformable back into the person you were. Well into the
nineteen fifties, most lay people and even many doctors considered
(20:54):
psoriasis a constitutional disease. That meant that they thought it
was genetic. They treated patients as if they were neurotic
and emotionally maladjusted. These doctors essentially said that siasis wasn't
that bad and that patient's emotional reactions were what were
causing chronic soriasis. They believed that if patients just relaxed,
(21:16):
they would never have another eruption. These doctors in the
fifties conceded that sriasis patients faced discrimination and ridicule and
assumptions about their cleanliness, but they didn't really recognize that
stigma and mistreatment, not some inherent nervousness on the patient's part,
caused distress. They saw stigmatization and the resulting isolation as
(21:39):
just a given something that was just going to happen,
and so the patient's reactions were framed as the problem
instead of looking at it in a more holistic way. Today,
we know a lot more about what sriasis is and
how to treat it, but we are absolutely not out
of the woods yet when it comes to eliminating stigma
for people with skin disorders. Twenty nineteen study by Rebecca L.
(22:02):
Pearl and colleagues found that many people still have a
lot of misconceptions about siasis. Thirty nine point four percent
of participants endorse social avoidance items like not wanting to
shake hands, thirty two point three percent endorsed not having
someone with poriasis in their home, twenty seven point three
(22:22):
percent of them stereotyped people with psoriasis as contagious, which
we know is false, and twenty six point eight percent
of them believed the myth that syriasis is not a
serious disease. So sharing the truth about your experience is crucial.
A lot of misunderstandings still exist, but living openly and
achieving great things can catch someone's attention and make them
(22:45):
question their own assumptions about people with psoriasis. Mandy, obviously,
and thankfully we are not sending people with siasis into
physical isolation anymore. But I'm sure you see some parallels
between this kind of historical dealing with people that have
(23:06):
skin conditions and the emotional impact of having a visible
chronic disease today. To you, what are those those obvious connections.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
That now there are more conversations around psoriasis and having
Type one diabetes kind of gave me that resilience in
that mindset to be able to kind of conquer my psoriasis.
And it almost felt like for a while I had
to do it alone, and it was until I met
a doctor who then was able to get me on
a good treatment plan. But yeah, I never really openly
(23:35):
talked about it. I don't really like post about it
too much, but I think conversations like this are important
to really understand the history and how far we have come,
and that I'm able to openly talk about it and
for people to listen and to understand and to have
more conversation. I think this is a big catalyst for that.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Of course, maintaining mental health is incredibly crucial for everyone,
but especially in high pressure environments like the one you
basically live your life in competitive sports. I am wondering
and hoping for my own benefit that you have some
tips to share on what your regular practices are that
help you deal with stress and anxiety.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
I will tap into that in a moment. I just
I would love to share. Back in early December, I
had the flu and I was getting ready to go
to LA that is where the national team is based.
That is where our only indoor facility is for cycling.
And a week later I noticed I had like the
flare up on my scalp.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
It was so bad.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
It was just right at the front, right where everybody
could see it. I was self conscious about it. It
was like my skin was just like lifting, it was red.
I was like, what is happening? And it was yeah,
the flu that really triggered a lot too in my body.
It was just like an immune response. So I just
had to be patient and reduce inflammation in my body.
(25:01):
So that was through diet, not overdoing it, and training
because just like stress and then just making sure I'm
sleeping while and taking ups in salt bass and just
trying to do things to bring my entire body and
like central nervous system down because it was just on overdrive.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
This is a very specific and hopefully not too odd
question because I know for a lot of people that
do a lot of sports, and I don't know a
lot of competitive athletes, but part of the appeal and
what makes them get that you know, dopamine hit and
that serotonin from sports is that they go hard enough
where they get this great release. But I'm wondering, when
(25:41):
you're trying to like carefully regulate not overdoing it so
that you can take care of your overall help. Is
it hard to like ride that edge.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yeah, it's a bit stressful because what we do as
well is there's a team aspect to it, right, so
that is communicating with my teammates or changing something in
my warm up where my training are doing instead of
four efforts three efforts that day. This was also pretty
eye opening in early January because not only it's rise
(26:10):
on my scalp, it's deeper, it's in my joints.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
There's swelling going on.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
I was going through some changes on the bike and
I hurt my back and it was the first time
in my entire career I hurt my back and I
was on pregnizone, so it could have been like multiple
things happening in my body. And it's hard because you
want to compete at such a high level and I'm
able to do that, but it just takes a little
bit more patience and monitoring. And it's never an excuse.
(26:36):
Trust me, it's never an excuse. And it's not because
I'm thirty two. I'm still very competitive and I will
say I'm fairly healthy, but it's just your body is
always showing you like I think you need to slow down,
or hey, maybe this isn't really working, but it takes
some time to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I would argue that it's because you have that ability
to prioritize that you will stay competitive for a much
longer time than if you just push through and probably
burn your entire body out at a very early age.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah, I can't argue that.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
So that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Are there any moments you can think of or experiences
where you can very obviously see a physical thing triggers
your psoriasis or your inflammation. Are there any opposites where
you can think of a moment where prioritizing your mental
health very obviously made a difference for your performance or
your well being overall.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
A couple of things I would say going on vacation,
even if it's just a few days to a week
to be with family. I like those moments where you're
not like thinking about what you have to do, just
being more in the moment and being more present, simple
things like shopping and getting my nails done and watching Netflix,
(27:53):
Like it just gets my mind off of what I
have to do because I'm always thinking like ahead and
I'm definitely in a way a planner. I like things
like organized and set up, and that's just the athlete
in me maybe, but yeah, sometimes it's good to like
have mindless TV and things going on.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I feel like you have done a great job of
solving the equation of a very driven person's approach to
work life balance.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So bravo, thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Maybe it's so powerful to hear you talk so openly
about all of the various challenges and diagnoses you've been
dealing with. Just to distill everything down as a takeaway.
If there was one message or concept that you would
want listeners who might be dealing with their own diagnosis
to take away from this, what would it be?
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Find things that work for you? And that's so from
a good doctor that you trust they have a good
connection with, finding things outside of the home that you
enjoyed doing, and finding foods.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
That work for you.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
It's just a lot about trial and era for That's
how it's been for me as a Type one, and
that I've done that as a person living with ciriasis,
a lot of trial and era and just trusting that
I'm doing the best that I can every day and
I have my little network and my things that I
love to do. So that is my message, like, just
(29:16):
keep doing what you're doing, but don't be afraid to
kind of step out of your comfort zone and have
some trial and era.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Thank you again so much for spending this time with
me today. I'm so honored and delighted and I cannot
wait to see what other great things you accomplish.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Thank you, Holly, this has been great, and thank you
for having a conversation and helping other people living with crisis.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Our skim is hosted by myself, Holly Frye, and executive
produced and engineered by Ryan Martz. Our senior producer and
writer is Meredith Barnes. If you enjoy the show, share
it with your friends. You can also listen and follow
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Welcome to Our Skin, a personal discovery podcast. I'm your host,
Holly Fry, and it is wonderful to have you here
with us. Connection is what this show is all about,
specifically connecting about things that we're sometimes afraid to talk about. Today,
we're going to be exploring the ups and downs, past
and present, personal and universal troubles we have with our skin.
(00:24):
Our skin is our most visible organ. What happens on
our skin affects the rest of our lives, especially when
dealing with a chronic condition. Getting diagnosed with one of these,
like psoriasis, can be overwhelming, but you're not alone. Each
episode features a personal story of resilience and grace, but
our personal stories are threads in a larger tapestry, and
(00:46):
there are lessons for us in the history of how
we treat our skin and the progress we've made together.
Caring for our skin is caring for ourselves. Whether you're
seeking inspiration for your own journey or curious about the
history of our skin, you'll find empathetic, transformative conversations here
on Our Skin.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Today.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
With me on the show is Mandy Marquart. Mandy started
biking when she was just ten years old, and she
won a junior's.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Gold medal at the age of eleven.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
By twenty one, she had made her sport her full
time gig as a part of the USA Cycling national team.
She has raced internationally at the Pan American Championships, the
UCI World Cups, and UCI World Championships. She is a
twenty seven time US national champion and holds five US
national records.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
At about the age.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Of sixteen, she was diagnosed with type one diabetes and
shortly thereafter psoriasis. So having two chronic conditions threatened to
end her career, not least because of the emotional impact.
And I am so grateful because Mandy is here today
to share her story and extend hope to our listeners.
What happens on our skin tells a story, but a
(01:58):
lot of that story is also in the mental health impact.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
So we're going to talk about that a good deal.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
So Mandy, first of all, thank you so much for
being here and talking with us.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Thanks Holly, and thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Oh it's my great pleasure. You were quoted as saying
starting to get really self conscious because psoriasis was taking
away your emotional energy. I want to hear from you
how that played out because you were still training to
be an Olympian when all of this was going on,
which is already everyone knows incredibly mentally taxing. So how
(02:33):
did those layers of mentally taxing things impact you and
you know, lead to this point where you were really
feeling drained.
Speaker 4 (02:41):
I'll backtrack a little bit because I was diagnosed with
type on diabetes at the age of sixteen, and it
was shortly after that I noticed that I started to
have some psoriasis. At that point, I didn't even know
actually what it was. I just thought it was dandriff. Yeah,
I was on my scalp only, and it wasn't until
I was just at the point, maybe ten years later.
(03:03):
I waited that long to actually do something about it
because I went to the dermatologist and she's like, oh,
it's probably just serbatic dermatitis, because a lot of people
confuse that with siisis as well. And it wasn't until
then I got a biopsy from my scalp and it
actually was a bit of both, so I had to
figure out a way to treat both. Yeah, it was
(03:25):
a really difficult time. I am always under a helmet,
but then when I take my helmet.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Off, like I was very self conscious.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
I was already dealing with type one diabetes and a
lot of that burden of like can I get back
to competing?
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Can I just want to get my health under control.
Speaker 4 (03:41):
I also have hypothyroidism, so it's like a synergy between
like all these autoimmune Right, there's so many things happening
that I didn't know where to start.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, I imagine there was also not a ton of
talk about like, oh, you're dealing with these medical issues
that need to be addressed. I don't know how much
talk there was going on about, hey, we also need
to find you ways to cope with the mental stress
that comes with that.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Yeah, there was not a lot of conversations because when
I was at the hospital in Germany, there wasn't a
lot of support. I had a doctor tell me I
would never be able to compete at a high level
in my sport because of my diagnosis of type one diabetes,
and so I just have all these negative things associated
with a diagnosis that SASIS just was.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
For me like another burden.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
There are also athletes across a number of sports right recently,
tennis players like Cocoa Goff and Naomi Osaka come to
mind that have spoken out and in some cases even
withdrawn from competition in the interest of prioritizing their mental health,
have their decisions, and those kinds of discussions about mental
health and competitive sports made things a little bit easier
(04:52):
for you in terms of talking about it and addressing
it head on.
Speaker 4 (04:56):
I'll say yes and no. So first no because people assume, oh,
she's making excuses because it's just another mental health discussion.
But I try to always angle it from a positive light,
like I'm very in tune and aware of my body,
Like it's not necessarily me.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Not wanting to be out there.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
That's what I want to do every day, and I
want to train and I want to compete. But what
we do is a very high stress environment. We travel,
lack of sleep, you know, we train twice a day,
You eat different foods like on a plane, and then
when you go to different countries. All those things do
affects aiasis and inflammation in the body. And so I
notice these flare ups happen when I'm under stress, and
(05:37):
just to kind of be more knowledgeable in that space
and just have more awareness is easier for me to
talk about because before I was just like, I don't
know I had a flare up. I don't know why.
So now I am able to talk about why, and
sometimes I don't feel like I need to explain myself.
But it's more so for the awareness side and using
my platform and also just communicating with my coach, is
(06:00):
in my family, like, hey, I'm having another flare up,
and it's not just I used a bad product on
my hair or a bad shampoo.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
It's more than that.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Right, I mean you just basically kind of open the
door to this because you mentioned that this is always
a high pressure thing. There is always a level of
vulnerability in being on the public stage essentially all the
time when you are doing your job. How did your
psoriasis diagnosis impact your mental health in terms of knowing
that people were always looking at you.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
Yeah, a lot of people think sometimes they're just like
you have it so under control. A lot of what
I have is more so invisible, like my thyroid and
my scalp and my pancrea is like all these things
are invisible conditions you don't see. So for myself, it's
just managing my stress and having like a plan with
(06:52):
my coach and really communicating and Yeah, it's a very
high stress environment, and so it's just controlling what I
I can and just communicating effectively with those around me,
because at the end of the day, I missed one
training session or two, it's not the end of the world.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Do you ever find Now this is admittedly from the
point of view of a layman like myself, who if
there is something that so much as lightly itches on
my person, it is going to distract me just constantly.
So I'm wondering, does your psoriasis, which comes with a
variety of symptoms, ever interfere with your performance ability? And
(07:28):
if it does, how do you overcome it? What are
your tips and tricks to get through something like that?
Speaker 4 (07:33):
I would say, before I was diagnosed with psoriasis and
started getting on medication, it was affecting me very much.
I was very self conscious wearing black shirts when I
took off my helmet, having to stand if on my shirt,
but like already taking the steps to be proactive about
like the shampoo or like what is it? I couldn't
(07:55):
figure it out, and yeah, I would pick it because
it's just like I just want to get rid of it,
but I'm obviously making it worse. And it was like
patches on my scalp, and it would be sensitive too.
If I got like a hair treatment and stuff like
it would burn. And I just like remember competing and
taking off my helmet and just feeling really self conscious
all the time. And then it wasn't until finding out
(08:17):
what it is and how I can treat it that
I was more confident wearing darker clothing. I still would
have like some flare ups here and there, but I
was so relieved that I didn't have to feel like
I have to pick it off because it was healing.
The skin was healing, and I had my husband like
look at my scalp like every week, like his hous
it look.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
He's like it's pink, and I'm like, that's good. That
means it's failing. It was, like I.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Would say, pretty life changing because it was just consuming
me in a lot of ways more than I thought
because of what I wore and how I felt and how.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I did my hair right.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
I didn't really realize until I actually got treatment.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Obviously, you experienced this immense sense of relief. Did you
notice it also impacting your mental health in terms of
your performance? Were you just able to apply that much
more focus to your work, or it was there just
a general overall improvement that made everything in your life easier.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
I will say there I was an improvement because I
wasn't dwelling and stressed about what was happening on my scalp.
I was able to shift more of like my energy
to the bike and training and competing. So it was
it was definitely a positive all around.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
There is an aspect to this. Any chronic disorders, especially
ones that show up on your skin. And I know
you said, you know, when you're writing and you have
your helmet on, nobody sees it. But then when you
take the helmet off and you would be wearing darker clothes,
it would make you self conscious, and I know that
can be incredibly isolating.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Once you found treatment.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And your mental health change, what was the first moment
that you really noticed like, oh, I'm slightly different than
I was before we figured out this problem.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
I remember just being pretty incident. Once things started to heal.
I also just had then better hygiene. It wasn't my
helmet causing this issue, but I was like, you know what,
I should probably clean my helmet pads more. I should
probably not leave my helmet on when I'm at training
on the track in between efforts, because I'm a sprinter,
(10:20):
so I just go out there, do an effort, and
come back right so I am able to then take
off my helmet and just be more aware of like
letting my scalp breathe.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
There was something you said earlier that really struck me
as very sweet and charming, where you were saying that
you would have your husband look at your scalp and
you would get his impression of it. What are some
other ways that you stay connected and grounded and supported
even though you know your family and friends may not
understand everything that comes with this diagnosis because they're not
(10:49):
living it. But how are the ways that you maintain
that support and connection.
Speaker 4 (10:54):
Through good communication. My husband, he understands. He's not trying
to basically cure me. He's just there as in my
support system. I don't need him to fix every problem.
He knows that I'm on top of my medication and
my doctor's appointments.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Even for him. I make his doctor's appointments.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Yeah, I was dermatology appointment that I literally just had
set up.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
He was there next to me, and he's like, well,
I guess.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So since my wife is here and is making it
like we're definitely we're definitely a team in a lot
of ways. He's also competing at a really high level,
and so yeah, we're both just supporting one another. And
my mom she's very on top of her skin health
and so she was very supportive and finding kind of
a solution for me for this issue and back ten
(11:42):
years ago. So yeah, it's just having those conversations. Is
really it that that really brought a lot to the surface.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
I'm so in awe of you because you have conquered
several diagnoses of chronic conditions, and you are an elite athlete,
which I can't even imagine. You have accomplished so much.
I'm curious what else is in your future. A little
bird told me that you were getting an MBA. Are
you just like a superachiever in all things?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Maybe it's slightly the German in me, but it's always
been about having balance.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
I was a full time athlete for a number of
years without going to school. After I graduated from undergrad
from Penn State, I just focused on cycling.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
But I just found that to.
Speaker 4 (12:27):
Be like just too much, and I was like, I
need to add something to it. I'm doing one class
at a time and so that is plenty, Like, I
don't know if I can handle more. I actually took
the semester off to focus on Olympic qualification. But yeah,
I focused more so on cycling. But then I knew
I needed to add something in to just get my
(12:48):
brain kind of moving in a little bit of a
different way.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
I missed it. I missed school.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
As is obvious from Mandy's story, navigating a chronic condition
like she has is rarely a straight path, and as
she shared, it can feel really, really lonely if no
one knows or understands what you're going through. After this break,
we step back in time to when that isolation was literal.
Hang tight because we have more. In a minute, welcome
(13:28):
back to our skin. Imagine a time when we just
knew so much less about conditions like psoriasis. We have
come a long way, but it's useful to remember that
our understanding of our skin is always moving forward. For
many centuries, those suffering from visible skin conditions like psoriasis
faced significant social stigma, leading to their isolation and just
(13:52):
being singled out in society. A major driver of this
stigma and isolation with sheer ignorance. Even though dermatologists began
to understand the internal origins of syriasis as early as
the mid nineteenth century, many non specialist doctors continued to
attribute the condition to uncleanliness and even parasites. This misunderstanding
(14:15):
led most people to believe that syriasis was contagious, and
they confused it with other skin disorders, and as a result,
sriasi's patients were regarded as contagious and therefore dangerous. This
concept of stigmatization actually dates back to the ancient Greeks,
who used the term stigma to describe marks on the
body that represented something evil and unusual. These marks were
(14:40):
often cut or burned into the skin of traitors or
criminals or enslaved individuals, effectively branding them so that others
would avoid them in public. Earliest written records of stigma
being applied to people with skin disorders come from the
Greeks and other Mediterranean societies. For many years, people have
dealt with their feet of skin conditions by isolating the
(15:02):
sufferers and sometimes forcing them to announce their presence by
wearing a bell around their neck or carrying a clapper.
There's actually a nineteenth century illustration from Paris that shows
exactly what this looks like. It's a guy carrying a
clapper and he's holding it out in front of him,
and he had to keep making the noise as he
traveled so that people knew he was coming and they
(15:23):
could avoid him. France, interestingly has one of the more
well documented records of discrimination against people with skin disorders.
For example, in thirteen thirteen, King Philip the Fair ordered
Srias's patients to be burned at the stake. Sorias's patients
have also been required to make sure they were easily
(15:43):
recognizable and thus avoided, and this marked them, of course,
as outcasts in society, so they weren't able to interact
with or touch so called healthy people. Their entire existence
was defined by this condition, which was misunderstood, and as
a consequence, they were relegated to mixing only with others
who suffered similar conditions. But in a lot of societies,
(16:07):
people with psoriasis weren't just stigmatized, they were outright banished.
One of the earliest places where those with skin conditions
were sent was Saintoyen established in four sixty. It sits
on the Italian border, not far from where Italy meets
with Switzerland and France. Other colonies quickly followed in France,
such as Challons Orson in five point seventy and Verdun
(16:30):
in six point thirty four. These places were primarily run
by religious orders inspired by biblical accounts of divine healing.
The prevailing belief among those who ran these enclaves was
that quote external disease mirrored an internal sinful soul, so
they thought if they could minister to the soul, it
would help heal the body. Later in the United States,
(16:54):
patients were also confined to remote settlements. Beginning around eighteen
sixty seven, patients would various skin disorders, including psoriasis, were
sent to Kalaupapa, Hawaii, on the island of Molokai, ninety
two years before Hawaii officially became part of the US
as a state. Thousands lived and died there in the
intervening years, including a later canonized saint, Father Damian de Veuster,
(17:18):
a Belgian priest who was canonized in two thousand and
nine for his selfless care of patients in Kalaupapa in
the eighteen hundreds. He served for sixteen years and is
buried at Saint Philamina Roman Catholic Church in Calaou Papa.
After a brief disinterment and dismemberment, his hand was deemed
a relic when his body was moved to Belgium in
(17:39):
nineteen thirty six, but he was reburied in his entirety
back in Hawaii in nineteen ninety five. But to go
back to people isolated with skin conditions, that isolation naturally
took its toll. The separation from society and loved ones,
combined with the harsh conditions and stigmatization that they endured,
(18:00):
deeply affected those who were sent to these settlements. The
mental health impacts were serious. Akin to what we know
today about solitary confinement in prison, sensory deprivation, lack of
human interaction and physical restrictions can all cause anxiety, insomnia,
even hallucinations, paranoia, and decreased brain.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Function, as well as withdrawal.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
We also recognize today that stress can have a significant
impact on physical health, and that played out with many
of these exiled patients. Their isolation was so complete that
most of the patients died within a decade of their arrival.
By two thousand and eight, the Hawaiian settlement's population had
dwindled to just twenty four and by twenty fifteen only
(18:45):
six people remained their full time, despite having long been cured.
And I want to be very clear here that though
this settlement is known mostly as a place where people
with leprosy were sent, there were people sent with the
like psoriasis and other skin conditions that all got lumped
under the same umbrella, even though they were dealing with
(19:06):
different things, and some were contagious and some were not.
Now a lot of the residents that are there, who
are in their eighties and nineties, first arrived on the
island as children, and to them that is their life.
We're going to share a quote from doctor Sylvia Haven,
who was a doctor at the Islands Hospital, who told
the New York Times in nineteen seventy one quote, when
they came here, the law guaranteed them a home for life,
(19:28):
and they can't be taken away. But it's a little
bit interesting because for some people that idea of home
for life felt a lot more like a prison, even
if it was a very beautiful and picturesque one. The
first colony like this in the continental United States existed
in Carville, Louisiana, that operated from eighteen ninety four to
(19:49):
nineteen ninety nine, and it was known for housing leprosy patients.
Patients have been free to leave Kalaupapa since nineteen sixty nine.
Thirty years later, Carvil's remained patients were also offered a
choice between moving on with an annual stipend of forty
six thousand dollars, remaining at the facility, or being transferred
(20:10):
to a home for elders, and in both Kalaupapa and Carville,
many people chose to stay, having grown accustomed to what
The New York Times described in two thousand and eight
as quote the counterintuitive twinning of loneliness and community. Craig Haney,
a social psychologist and leading expert on solitary confinement and
its impacts on brain health, said quote, if you've been
(20:32):
in solitary confinement for years, decades, even, it's changed who
you are, It's changed your psychological DNA. You turn into
somebody else that somebody else may or may not be
transformable back into the person you were. Well into the
nineteen fifties, most lay people and even many doctors considered
(20:54):
psoriasis a constitutional disease. That meant that they thought it
was genetic. They treated patients as if they were neurotic
and emotionally maladjusted. These doctors essentially said that siasis wasn't
that bad and that patient's emotional reactions were what were
causing chronic soriasis. They believed that if patients just relaxed,
(21:16):
they would never have another eruption. These doctors in the
fifties conceded that sriasis patients faced discrimination and ridicule and
assumptions about their cleanliness, but they didn't really recognize that
stigma and mistreatment, not some inherent nervousness on the patient's part,
caused distress. They saw stigmatization and the resulting isolation as
(21:39):
just a given something that was just going to happen,
and so the patient's reactions were framed as the problem
instead of looking at it in a more holistic way. Today,
we know a lot more about what sriasis is and
how to treat it, but we are absolutely not out
of the woods yet when it comes to eliminating stigma
for people with skin disorders. Twenty nineteen study by Rebecca L.
(22:02):
Pearl and colleagues found that many people still have a
lot of misconceptions about siasis. Thirty nine point four percent
of participants endorse social avoidance items like not wanting to
shake hands, thirty two point three percent endorsed not having
someone with poriasis in their home, twenty seven point three
(22:22):
percent of them stereotyped people with psoriasis as contagious, which
we know is false, and twenty six point eight percent
of them believed the myth that syriasis is not a
serious disease. So sharing the truth about your experience is crucial.
A lot of misunderstandings still exist, but living openly and
achieving great things can catch someone's attention and make them
(22:45):
question their own assumptions about people with psoriasis. Mandy, obviously,
and thankfully we are not sending people with siasis into
physical isolation anymore. But I'm sure you see some parallels
between this kind of historical dealing with people that have
(23:06):
skin conditions and the emotional impact of having a visible
chronic disease today. To you, what are those those obvious connections.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
That now there are more conversations around psoriasis and having
Type one diabetes kind of gave me that resilience in
that mindset to be able to kind of conquer my psoriasis.
And it almost felt like for a while I had
to do it alone, and it was until I met
a doctor who then was able to get me on
a good treatment plan. But yeah, I never really openly
(23:35):
talked about it. I don't really like post about it
too much, but I think conversations like this are important
to really understand the history and how far we have come,
and that I'm able to openly talk about it and
for people to listen and to understand and to have
more conversation. I think this is a big catalyst for that.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Of course, maintaining mental health is incredibly crucial for everyone,
but especially in high pressure environments like the one you
basically live your life in competitive sports. I am wondering
and hoping for my own benefit that you have some
tips to share on what your regular practices are that
help you deal with stress and anxiety.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
I will tap into that in a moment. I just
I would love to share. Back in early December, I
had the flu and I was getting ready to go
to LA that is where the national team is based.
That is where our only indoor facility is for cycling.
And a week later I noticed I had like the
flare up on my scalp.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
It was so bad.
Speaker 4 (24:40):
It was just right at the front, right where everybody
could see it. I was self conscious about it. It
was like my skin was just like lifting, it was red.
I was like, what is happening? And it was yeah,
the flu that really triggered a lot too in my body.
It was just like an immune response. So I just
had to be patient and reduce inflammation in my body.
(25:01):
So that was through diet, not overdoing it, and training
because just like stress and then just making sure I'm
sleeping while and taking ups in salt bass and just
trying to do things to bring my entire body and
like central nervous system down because it was just on overdrive.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
This is a very specific and hopefully not too odd
question because I know for a lot of people that
do a lot of sports, and I don't know a
lot of competitive athletes, but part of the appeal and
what makes them get that you know, dopamine hit and
that serotonin from sports is that they go hard enough
where they get this great release. But I'm wondering, when
(25:41):
you're trying to like carefully regulate not overdoing it so
that you can take care of your overall help. Is
it hard to like ride that edge.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yeah, it's a bit stressful because what we do as
well is there's a team aspect to it, right, so
that is communicating with my teammates or changing something in
my warm up where my training are doing instead of
four efforts three efforts that day. This was also pretty
eye opening in early January because not only it's rise
(26:10):
on my scalp, it's deeper, it's in my joints.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
There's swelling going on.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
I was going through some changes on the bike and
I hurt my back and it was the first time
in my entire career I hurt my back and I
was on pregnizone, so it could have been like multiple
things happening in my body. And it's hard because you
want to compete at such a high level and I'm
able to do that, but it just takes a little
bit more patience and monitoring. And it's never an excuse.
(26:36):
Trust me, it's never an excuse. And it's not because
I'm thirty two. I'm still very competitive and I will
say I'm fairly healthy, but it's just your body is
always showing you like I think you need to slow down,
or hey, maybe this isn't really working, but it takes
some time to figure that out.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I would argue that it's because you have that ability
to prioritize that you will stay competitive for a much
longer time than if you just push through and probably
burn your entire body out at a very early age.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah, I can't argue that.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
So that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Are there any moments you can think of or experiences
where you can very obviously see a physical thing triggers
your psoriasis or your inflammation. Are there any opposites where
you can think of a moment where prioritizing your mental
health very obviously made a difference for your performance or
your well being overall.
Speaker 4 (27:32):
A couple of things I would say going on vacation,
even if it's just a few days to a week
to be with family. I like those moments where you're
not like thinking about what you have to do, just
being more in the moment and being more present, simple
things like shopping and getting my nails done and watching Netflix,
(27:53):
Like it just gets my mind off of what I
have to do because I'm always thinking like ahead and
I'm definitely in a way a planner. I like things
like organized and set up, and that's just the athlete
in me maybe, but yeah, sometimes it's good to like
have mindless TV and things going on.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
I feel like you have done a great job of
solving the equation of a very driven person's approach to
work life balance.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So bravo, thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Maybe it's so powerful to hear you talk so openly
about all of the various challenges and diagnoses you've been
dealing with. Just to distill everything down as a takeaway.
If there was one message or concept that you would
want listeners who might be dealing with their own diagnosis
to take away from this, what would it be?
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Find things that work for you? And that's so from
a good doctor that you trust they have a good
connection with, finding things outside of the home that you
enjoyed doing, and finding foods.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
That work for you.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
It's just a lot about trial and era for That's
how it's been for me as a Type one, and
that I've done that as a person living with ciriasis,
a lot of trial and era and just trusting that
I'm doing the best that I can every day and
I have my little network and my things that I
love to do. So that is my message, like, just
(29:16):
keep doing what you're doing, but don't be afraid to
kind of step out of your comfort zone and have
some trial and era.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Thank you again so much for spending this time with
me today. I'm so honored and delighted and I cannot
wait to see what other great things you accomplish.
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Thank you, Holly, this has been great, and thank you
for having a conversation and helping other people living with crisis.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Our skim is hosted by myself, Holly Frye, and executive
produced and engineered by Ryan Martz. Our senior producer and
writer is Meredith Barnes. If you enjoy the show, share
it with your friends. You can also listen and follow
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
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