March 7, 2023 • 35 mins
What happens when two former Bachelors get together?? Secrets are revealed! Ben is hanging out with Clayton Echard who has a LOT to say since the last time we saw him.
Clayton clears the air about what happened with him and Rachel, and what he was TRULY feeling the first time he laid eyes on her.
And, we hear the real story on where he stands with Susie today.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with I our radio. It's another episode of the Almost
Famous podcast. Today we are very very fortunate, very lucky,
I would say, to have a very special host with me, Layton.
Welcome to the podcast. Man. Man, last time I saw you,
(00:20):
you were kicking everyone's button golf, and now here we
are on a maybe a little bit more equal playing field.
I like my chances of speaking a lot versus playing golf,
so I might be able to hang with you this time.
This is gonna be a good episode because you just
said the one compliment in the world to me that
means the most to me. So thank you for recognizing
that it's gonna be blast. Yeah. Last that we were together,
(00:43):
you shot like one. We did go golfing at a
beautiful place. You surprised everybody because you don't play golf typically.
You're a monstrous man. You make a club look very
small in your hands, although you're undersized clubs too, I
should say part of it. I think they were bigger
than mine and you make them look small. And then
(01:06):
we went back to the house. I had to actually
head out of town for another event, and I'm on
the plane and I'm on this plane, and all of
a sudden, your name is blowing up everywhere on my
Google alerts, like everywhere. Walk us through what happened after
the golf round that day? And did you expect your
(01:27):
videos with Rachel and Michelle to do what they did? Ben,
You're coming out hot man, I wasn't. I was. I thought,
we're gonna warm up. We are warm enough. This is easy,
this is easy stuff. Oh great, I can't even wait
for what's gonna what's to come? Yeah, you know what
I mean. Well, you know, we were there for a
couple of days and just feeling the situation out right.
(01:49):
Day one, when I came out of the airport and
I first saw Rachel, I was like, do I need
to get ready to duck something a water bottle or
But now she was super sweet and and so we
were all having a good time. And then uh yeah,
when you left, we were all sitting there and we thought,
you know, let's let's just have some fun with this, right,
Like we've how far we've come, and now we can
sit in a room together and and laugh and understand
(02:14):
one another, and we've made amends and let's just have
some fun with this. So uh, yeah, we as I
don't normally don't do anyways, but um, the ideas came
up with TikTok. And I'm not the visionary, but I
can usually add on to things here and there. So
we started talking and so this would be fun if we,
you know, set this up this way, and so we
(02:34):
did and then it popped off and then all of
a sudden, I you know, then I just had to
start answering to some things. And uh but you know again,
for me, more than anything, it just showed that, um,
you know, how far we've all come and how we're
able to to look past kind of all the all
the pain that had presented itself years prior. So, um,
this is a fun moment. But of course people in
(02:55):
the Internet like to like to gas everything up and
and just see if there's something more than what they're
is there, and so of course then all these questions
came and followed. I thought it was super fun. I
think it's really cool just to give perspective because I
talk on this show every week, right, and so it's
always good for people to hear a different perspective. Two
(03:15):
questions for you. One was just the first time you've
ran into somebody on your season that was in the
top four other than Susie. And then two, can you
just speak to a little bit because I know that
it's a very real thing, but some people watch the
show and they don't think like real life and the
show ever connect, Like how odd is it being around
(03:39):
like a Rachel or a Michelle even you know, what
are the nerves? Like what are you feeling walking into
a room where you know you're gonna be around both
these people maybe for the first time. Yeah, So to
answer your first question, I have not I have not
run across Gabby yet. Uh and then um, then Serene
(04:02):
would have been the other person. But yes, I've I've
run across three and a few times because Brandon and
I are very close. Um. And so that was funny
the dynamic when we uh well first like hung out together.
He was like, whoa easy on the hug there, And
he'd be like, hey, hey, y'all are getting too close.
So he was, you know, playing that dynamic of you guys,
I'm gonna keep my eye on you guys. But it
was it was playful and of course like him and
(04:24):
I are such close friends, and and and Serene and
I had had a good um, you know, we have
a good friendship now and I think things ended um
a lot better with her on the show than like
with the with the final three. So there wasn't much
uh there to have to be baby concern about it
or or have to overcome uh. So yeah, I guess
I've I've I've hung out with now three of the
(04:47):
four final yeah individuals. So um, who knows if olive
across the pass a Gabby. I know she's super busy.
But to answer the second half of your question, I
don't really like the nerves for me and and you
can answer. You could probably attest to this. I feel
like after you go through so much, you put your
entire life on display for everyone to judge every facet
(05:08):
of you. They they're gonna look at how you kiss,
They're gonna look at your game, They're gonna look at um,
you know how if you have empathy or not. They're
going to judge your career, They're gonna judge what you're
doing after the show. After all this, these constant eyes
on you, it just kind of starts to become you
just be you, just kind of not I don't know
if hardens the right word, but you're kind of like
battle tested, and so you you just feel that then
(05:32):
whenever you're faced with it with circumstance that maybe normally
would be uncomfortable for most I typically just think, here's
all the things that you've went through and done um
and a lot of these things now just don't really
incite fear in me or concern. My biggest thing is
it's when I step into a situation like that, is
just first off reading the room and making sure, hey,
like do we have that mutual respect? And I want
(05:55):
to make sure we're all good on this and then
and then yeah, can we kind of be playful or
is it something that we need to like step aside
to have a conversation with one another? And so that's
the way I look at it. But I wasn't necessarily
nervous um when I first bumped into Rachel. You know,
it had been a year and the last time we
talked was at Afar. But more than anything, you just
want to make sure that person's okay and that and
(06:16):
that you're cordial and if there's some beef you got
to settle, then it's like, okay, let's go do this
as two mature individuals. Um. So that's the way I
look at it. And with Michelle as well. I mean,
the connection we never got to that place that I
got with maybe someone like Rachel or Gabby or Susie.
Right like with rachel Or, with Michelle, I was taking
out at number eight, So we never had that that
strong of a connection, and we've always been cordial in
(06:39):
that front. So um, I try not to overthink it
these days, which is a big, big statement, but I
don't know. I mean, you have you run into people
from your final four and how do you approach that? Yeah,
I have. I think at this point I've everybody but Kayla.
I've seen or Ina the jojo at an airport okay
um and the airports many dude it was and you
(07:02):
for me, I do get nervous. I'm with you where
you're a little more hardened, you're a little more prepared.
That stuff doesn't affect you. But when I know that
I'm going on a trip, or when i know that
I'm going to be in the same place as somebody
that was on my season, I do get anxious. And
I'll tell you why. And it might be my own issue,
(07:24):
but I always had this idea that all these women
are on a text thread and all these women are
living in the house, and I'm kind of on my
island alone, and You're really only gonna make one person
potentially happy on your season. Everybody else is going to
be mad at you for some reason, and also rightfully
trying to like say whatever they can, you know, to
make themselves feel better about not, you know, the experience
(07:47):
not going the way maybe they thought it would, even
though they all end up very okay over the years.
And so I always walk into these like insecure, feeling
like kind of the the the enemy, the outsider, and
especially when there's more than one of the women on
my season in the same room at sometime, I just
feel like I'm gonna walk into this room and they're
(08:07):
all like gonna be giggling, like you know, and making
fun of me, and I'm gonna be like, yeah, okay,
now you know you can, and I'm taking it all in.
So I do get nervous. Maybe not as much anymore,
but at the beginning, I remember being very anxious for
these moments and very uncomfortable. I thought you handled it
really well. I mean I watched it, you know, I've
(08:28):
been able to be around Rachel now a few times
since her season ended and catch up with her on
her personal life and you know the things she's up
to and her fears and how she's walking through the
process post being a lead. And so I knew the
storyline going into that weekend, like I knew that was
gonna be a thing and kind of be awkward maybe,
(08:49):
And I thought you just handled it well. I thought
you rolled with it. The weekend ended up being a
lot of fun. And I think a lot of that
is how you and Michelle and Rachel handled yourselves, like
you just made it one and you made it funny.
You can have to laugh at it. Maybe that's a
you know, a piece of advice or anybody going through
a breakup and you run into that person again is
(09:09):
maybe if you just can put a smile on your
face and try to have the best time possible, it
makes a lot easier. But yeah, I thought the whole
weekend went well because of the way you three handled yourselves.
You could have gone south. And I will say, yes,
those text threads do exist. I've seen them to some degree,
I've heard of them. But beyond that, though I agree
(09:33):
with you, I went through the same thing that you
went through, where I started to a lot of times, yeah,
project what I thought people were going to how they
would react when they saw me, because I was like, okay,
that they're talking this way about me, so when I
get into a room with them, they're going to be
thinking these thoughts internally. But what I've found a lot
of times and where I've gotten to today, and I
went through everything that you just said that you went through.
(09:53):
I went through the exact thing. But I finally told
myself a lot of times I will project, and then
the outcome will never occur that projecting. So I thought,
if I just go in with an open mind and
with a smile on my face, and I approach it
and say like, let's just speak like like let me
go in here and really just try to be who
I am authentically, but show that I'm willing to just
(10:14):
try to make this work out and establish this this
friendship or whatever it may be. I feel like, what
however you carry yourself is what is going to then
project and rub off onto that other individuals. So if
I'd have walked in with that first interaction and I
would have you know, avoided eye contact and just kind
of like gotten the car right away without saying hello
(10:35):
that entire week it would have been awkward. Right, Like,
whatever energy you project is probably going to be received,
And so I just thought, hey, I'm just gonna walk
out with a smile and just be like, hey, how's
it going, but like in a kind of a humorous
light way of you know, how how are we? But
you know? Again, I think like that energy reads and
and then I found that when you do that a
lot of times it will put someone's guard down and
(10:57):
they go okay, I mean we both. I also did
ask ahead of time, does she know I'm coming or
like she does? I said, okay, well if she hated me,
then as she knows I'm coming, unless she's gonna just
hurl something at me, we're probably okay because she's aware.
So I did check. And then from that point forward,
I thought their interaction is going to be whatever you
make it. So if you decide to be awkward about
(11:18):
it'll be awkward. If you decide to be rude, it'll
be rude. But if you decide to be kind, caring
and attentive, that's the way it'll take it received. And
it was that's what she gave back to me, Well,
I was really glad that we get to spend h
(11:41):
that I get to meet you in person. Right, There's
there's a quality about you obviously that's done. Um, that
there's a quality about you that displays a lot of wisdom.
I think this is just one, you know, for the
TikTok video that came in up. Fans watch it and
they react and they, like you said, they blow it up.
They have their which tektok video because I keep having
(12:03):
more come out. Oh the one with the with Rachel
and Michelle, Well, the one that really got popular. Um.
You know, but I always, especially on this show, like
to go to the behind the scenes and you just
explained it like your mental preparation, how you how you
prepared yourself to meet somebody that you didn't exactly know
how the response would be. And so there's a lot
(12:24):
of wisdom. Um, there's a lot of care um for
your mental state, uh and and how you handle yourself.
And it also displays in your newest project. And we're
gonna get to the show and this episode and we're
gonna you know, blab on about what happened on this episode.
I say, I got a lot a lot to talk
about Man and that show episode and it deals with
with it with the mental aspect side of it too,
(12:45):
the mental health side. So I care, yeah your opinion, Yeah,
well your perspective is going to be great. But before
we get to that, I do want to take a
second and highlight, um, a project that you just came
out with your book. Um, something that we got to
speak about out on the way to the golf course,
something that matters and means a lot to you, that
you worked on very hard for a long time. So
(13:08):
just give your best promo and kind of what people
can expect out of this book before we get to
the opinions of the episode. Yeah, well, I put a
lot into that book. It took me nine months to write,
so it was my baby basically, right, So, and it
really boils down to a story of how an individual
can go from self doubt to self belief and how
(13:31):
individuals can harness that hope that if I've went through that,
then they can as well. So I open up and
just get very candid and try to destigmatize the conversations
around mental health. And the book is for anybody else
who is struggling with depression. Anxiety, comparison, culture, social media,
cyber bowling. It's if anyone's going through a struggle in
(13:53):
their life and feels that they're walking down this path
that's a dark path, and they don't feel like they
can see the light, then, to me, this is what
that book's about. It's it's meant to show somebody, Hey,
I'm I was, I'm walking alongside you right now, you're
not alone in this. Uh. And and as you hear
my story, you may start to see these connections, and
then you'll be able to start pivoting the way that
(14:14):
you view your own reality, and then we can hopefully
get you to a place where you start to see
that light off in the distance and you start walking
toward it. So, um, that's essentially what the book is.
In a nutshell, I've had to get really good at
trying to nutshell it because it's just so much that
I'm passionate about that's in the book. But uh, it's
a story of self doubt to self belief and that
(14:35):
that that path and how to get there. Um and
and just yeah, that's that's the best way I can
describe it. What's the name of the book? Where can
people pick it up and find it. I don't know
A agrees uh, And it's if you go on my Instagram,
I keep everything funnel there. Click on the link in
my bio and it'll take you to that Amazon link.
It's on Amazon um for purchase. So to close here,
(14:59):
Why why is this topic important to you? I mean,
it's obviously important for you personally. You saw that this
was your story. You wanted to work on things and
move through things and grow as a human. But why
do you I mean, why do you care if anybody
else does it? Because I think we're all more alike
than we realized. We all have these insecurities, but I
(15:21):
think where a lot of us struggle as we don't
address them, we just continue to suppress them. And the
more we suppress them, we don't know if anyone else
is going through it because we're not willing to have
the conversations. This will tie into the episode from last
night because it's I saw a lot of it and
it really hit home with me where I was relating
to a lot of the women relating to Zach as well,
(15:43):
and where these insecurities can start to bubble up and
when you feel that you're not able to talk about
it because you're afraid of how it might be received.
Then you end up getting into your own head, you
end up projecting, you end up making these assumptions, and
you can't be your one hundred percent authentic self and
you either close off or you have an outburst of emotion.
(16:05):
And so that's why I'm having these conversations. I thought
it was just very timely and and you know, to
watch the episode and to see this happening with a
few within the individuals and the show, and I thought,
this is not just show related though, this is real
life related. Right. We oftentimes we struggle, but we just
(16:25):
don't talk about it. And if we did, we'd realize
that if you open up to the right people, it
brings you closer together, it doesn't tear you farther apart.
So that's why I'm talking about it because I'm like, hey, guys,
look look at me. I'm happy and after everything I
went through, and I'm opening up and I continue to do.
So why am I opening up? Because I must be
getting some type of positive response and it's helping me.
(16:46):
So that's if someone sees that, they go, well, maybe
I can do it too. And everyone that I talked
to you. They do it and they feel a lot
better and they think, why didn't I open up years ago?
So that's why I'm having this conversation, just to get
more people to feel comfortable with doing it. Yeah, well
for me to you, you know my opinion. Um, we're
probably close to the same age. How do you twenty
(17:07):
nine three zero? Yeah, some thirty three okay, so we're
not too far apart. But you know, I've I was
young when I went on the show and have had
you know, six and a half seven years of going
through this process. And um, it's always interesting when you
get to meet a lead. We didn't get to speak
(17:27):
before your season, but it's always interesting for me when
when I get to meet the lead post show, because
things change. No matter if you believe there are going
to or not right, the criticism happens. That's part of
what you sign up for. You don't know it at
the time, but you sign up to be criticized, and
you sign up to be celebrated, and you signed up
to be critiqued. Then you sign up for all these
things because people watch the show for entertainment, and after
(17:47):
a while, you kind of just accept that because it happens,
and it happens to Everybody's happened to me, it's happened
to you, it's happening to zac Um. But it's one
of the coolest questions that I get to hear somebody ask,
or maybe I get to ask to a lead Bachelor
or Bachelor post show, is what do you want to
do with this? Like you have, necessarily, the world's not
(18:08):
your oyster right. You don't have every opportunity in the world.
Nobody's gonna hire you to host the coolest, biggest show
on TV, and most of the time you have to
kind of figure out your own lane, which we talked
about as well. But the big question is what do
you want out of all of this or what do
you want the world to benefit from from you having
this platform? And it's it's incredible. Not everybody does it,
(18:30):
and I didn't do it at first. I kind of
had to learn the hard way, but it's incredible to
see somebody a year out from their season, spending your
platform in your time to try to benefit not only
yourself but the fans and the people that have followed
your story and our interest in your story. So that's
kudos to you because the world will be a better
(18:52):
place because of this book and because of having these conversations.
And I think that's a big deal. I was going
to ask you for me. I feel like I found
my why. Um, and it's really cool to have gotten
(19:13):
to that point. Did you did you feel like you
found your why after the show? It? Did it kind
of push you into figuring out who I am and
what I want in life? Or were you already did
you already know that prior to the show? Um? What
what did the show kind of do for you outcome wise?
When when you came off it? Because I know I
know your backstory. I mean, I I guess I beat
your record a record. I wasn't trying to be. You
(19:33):
told two people that you love them, and I decided
to I decided to go to the extra mile. So, um,
but I I know you're well. I heard you were
well received. But I mean, overall, what did the experience
do you afterwards? I mean, did you have to do
a deep dive as well and to your identity and
figure out like what am I going to take from
this and where do I go from here? It's a
(19:54):
great question. Um. At first, I became very excited about
the fame, and I didn't realize I was being excited
about the fame, right, You'd be invited to these red carpets,
you'd be at these parties, you'd still be on the
cover of magazines. People will be talking about you. You'd
be getting emails every day and turning down opportunities, and
that slowly, not slowly, that quickly goes away, kind of like, yeah,
(20:18):
it goes quick. But I was still doing cooler stuff
than I'd ever done before. And there was a moment
in time that it hit me. I was in an
airport after an event where I met I forget who
what actor. I think it was Samuel L. Jackson, And
I called up my family and I was telling him
this and they were like, that's awesome, Like how was he?
And I was like, wait, that's not the response I
(20:39):
was expecting. Like I don't know what I was expecting,
but I was expecting you to think I was super
cool for being at the same party as Samuel L.
Jackson and like celebrating me because I was at the
same party and now I've made it, and like they didn't.
And then I called my friends kind of expecting the
same response. And they didn't at all give me the
same response. They never could. They never cared about what
I was doing. They just wanted to hang out and
(21:01):
watch football and group, yeah, I do. And I got
very lonely, and so I called up one of my buddies,
who's a good counsel to me and a very wise friend,
and I I was telling him my feelings and my
emotions here and like what I was expressing, and how
I was getting angry at my family and my friends
(21:22):
because they weren't celebrating me like I thought they should
or would. And he goes, Ben, what if this whole
thing was meant to be for something bigger than yourself?
What if this was never meant to be about you?
And that statement alone changed everything for me. Now, my work,
my passions, and the things I really cared about existed
before the show. But what the show did was it
(21:46):
handed me a platform that allowed that why to be
kind of catalyzed to a bigger like purpose. And so
now I had this platform that wasn't about me standing
relevant and wasn't about me staying famous, and wasn't about
me making headlines. But now that platform allowed me to advocate,
to share, to connect to build community around things that
(22:11):
I already had a purpose in, but I just didn't
feel like I can make the impact, Like I didn't
know what my impact was within those organizations or those
social causes until really the show and now I have,
you know. Luckily, for me, I don't know where I
would have been without the show. Luckily, that platform has
handed me a the ability to have a skill set
like I can now, you know, with a push of
(22:32):
a button advocate on behappy people. So I think the
show helped me afterwards just feel like I had a
purpose in my why where I don't know. I hope
I would have found that purpose without the show. I
think I could have. I just don't I don't know
how that journey would have looked. So Yeah, I mean
the show helped a lot in my why, but it
(22:53):
helped it was for the most part, it was it
was a growing process for me, which it sounds like
it is for you and you hope it is for
every person that comes off the show, cast, member, or
lead that the show helps them grow at some level. Yeah,
I think what I've seen in my own as I've
observed individuals as there's two ways you can go about it.
(23:14):
You can become more egotistical because you can come off
the show and say I was the guy or the
gal and I'm the big time and everyone's been kissing
my butt and they'll continue to and I'm I'm up
here right. I've seen people just go completely through the
roof with their ego, and then I've seen other individuals
that have sacrificed to ego more than ever. They they
see it and they say, this is bigger than me.
(23:36):
You know, this is what I have now, I'm grateful for.
But I'm going to stay humbled and I'm going to
be able to use this for good however it may go.
So it's hard, though, I don't blame anybody for getting
a little egotistical. When everyone's patting you on the back
and you're getting all these backstage events and everyone's telling
you how great you are and how you know you're
you're you know what doesn't stink, and everyone's just right
(23:57):
there beside you, and so you get pumped up, pump
up up, pump up. You're used to it, and then
all of a sudden, like you said, it gets pulled
out from you under you very quickly, and then you
start to question like, well, am I just not who
I used to be? Am I not worthy of that
those compliments anymore? In reality was is people were probably
pushing you up a little bit more than what you know.
They probably treated you a little bit more in a
(24:17):
higher regard than like what they maybe should have, because
it was all a lot of those individuals who just
around you and maybe want to be in the same
room as you. But to your point, you know you
got good friends when the entire time they're just like,
I don't care, man, let's watch football. I don't want
to want. I don't care about the fact that you
met so and so or that you got this back.
That's cool, buddy, But like you know, let's just talk life.
But it's hard because you, as the lead, you balance
(24:39):
that of you know, everyone puts me up here, So
where do I land? Am I up here? Or am
I here? Where do I? Where do I fit? And
what are the expectations of me? Too? And there seems
like there's so many especially being the lead, it's like
perfection or nothing. If you're not perfect, good luck. And
we can jump into that because I know we were
talking about it. We'll talk about it coming up here,
but I've was you know, I've seen some of the
(25:01):
things that he's done and people have ripped him to
shreds for and I'm opinionated on that and I got
something to say about it when we get to that point,
because I'm like, what do you expect out of someone
to be perfect for two months? I mean, I'd love
to see the relationships of everybody that seems to be
condemning individuals, because I'm like, let's put a camera on
you for two months and see if if we catch
you at your lowest moment one time. Chances Sorry, we
(25:23):
got sixty days to do so I'm sure we can. Yeah. Well,
as we've teased, we're going to you can you can
follow in the almost famous thread right after this episode,
we're going to break down the Bachelor and the Bachelor headlines.
It's going to be great, And I'm gonna try to
play in that episode a little Devil's advocate to you
because i want you to come at the positive perspective
(25:46):
and I'm gonna push you a little bit so that
we can really get to understand what it's like to
be the lead and the good and the bad and
the uglies and where you can mess up with all that.
I'm excited to do that with you. I haven't done
it with a with a co bachelor in a long time.
But a final question for you on our little catch
up here, Clayton, something else I've respected about you that
(26:06):
I've watched from a distance is something that I can't
claim to have had. I don't have a bad relationship
with Lauren my X from the show. We have a
good relationship right He's married, two kids, and I'm married,
and we're living our two separate lengths. But there hasn't
been really a place in time where there's been mutual
public support. We never like really healed. We just kind
(26:29):
of moved on, which is good and fine for where
we're at now. But you and Susie seemed to support
each other in a humorous way, also in a very
real way, in a way that seems very healthy to me,
like something I'm learning from from an outsider, and it's
convicting me in a lot of ways that I wish
I would have maybe done things differently, or at least
(26:50):
tried to do things differently. So if you can, obviously
people care and want to know what is your relationship
like with Susie today and also within that if you
could speak to how you got to the Police of health, um,
so that you could be like you two are today,
How in the world did that happen? And was it
intentional and unintentional? Just give us some insight. Yeah, you know,
(27:13):
I think it took a conscious effort and decision to
decide how are we going to move forward with this?
I think when you when you experience a breakup, there's
so much pain that's involved, right, and usually we're at
the height of our emotions, and that's when we can
say things we don't mean we can we can go
down this this dark path of attacking because we're hurt, right, Like,
(27:35):
we feel that a part of us was stripped from
us when we weren't ready for it to be taken,
and so and then we start to think, well, what
did I do wrong? It must have been my fault. Well,
then we'll go from that to well, no, it's not me,
it's them, they're the problem. And then it doesn't help
that we have friends and family that say they don't
know what they're looking for, they're missing out on a
good person, and so then they validate, they validate that
(27:56):
that belief of it's not my fault, it's their fault.
And so then you start to think about all the
things that they did that you didn't like, and you go, yeah,
they're not worthy, and so then you start to think, well, yeah,
this is their fault. And I think that's where in
the past I've had this with relationships where then I
start to point the finger. Somebody asked me why, you know,
why why did so and so and you not work
out because she had this issue or she did this
(28:20):
and I couldn't put up with it. But I didn't
like that. I never when I did that in my
past relationships, I always felt that I harbored this motion,
that I could never let go of it, and it hurts,
and it closed me off to other relationships because I thought,
I don't want to go back to that. I don't
want to experience that again. So then I thought, let
me reframe this. How what is it I feel like
(28:43):
I should be able to walk away from a relationship
and be grateful, because why do we have this negative
view point on somebody that we spend years of our
life with and all of a a sudden we act like
we hate them and we have nothing but bad things
to say about them. It's like, what about all the
good times you had three years or however many, how
long it was, how about all the good times? You
stayed with him for a reason. You loved him for
(29:03):
a reason, You fell in love with him for a reason,
So what are those reasons? And I think for me,
I started to think about all that with Susie. I
thought why did I fall in love with this woman?
And I remember I always thought every time I was
around her, she made me want to be a better person,
and so I every time I woke up, I was
trying to be a better version of myself. And she
(29:24):
pushed me, and she held me accountable, and she was
there and consoled me when I needed it. And there's
so many things. I could sit here for an hour
and say all the things that she did for me,
But I had to reflect upon that every time I
would get emotional and think why did this not work
out between us? Why couldn't you try harder to make
this work? I had to take a step back and think,
(29:48):
everything happens for a reason. I believe in that. But
understand all the things that she did for you, and
you wouldn't be the person you are today if it
wasn't for her. And so I kept when I had
negative self talk, I kept instantly putting positive self talk in.
I was like, second I had a negative thought about it,
I'm like, nope, nope, nope, don't replace that. And I
kept fighting it until finally I thought, you know what,
I am a legitimately better person because of her, and
(30:09):
if I would have never met her, I would not
be half the person I am today. And then I
thought back to my other relationships previously, and I thought, well,
she taught me, you know, the she taught me manners. This,
this girl taught me the power of chivalry. This this
she taught me the ability to show my emotions and
open up. And so I thought, you know, there's all
this positive things that I've I've taken from people in
(30:31):
my life. I just need to remember those when I
remember that person, so I have a positive association with them.
And then what I found was all the negativity that
I heart harbored m was just pain. But really I
let it all go. And so when I think of
my exes now, I think all the lessons they taught me,
not the pain that they caused me. And that's why
(30:52):
I can always have a positive outlook on them and
I can speak highly of them because the first when
you say Susie, I think of all the things she
did for me, not all the pain she caused me.
And so that reframe has been critical, and I've been
really grateful to have learned that, because now I mean
I'm her biggest supporter, and I'll be you know, I'll
be anyone else's bigges supporter that I've crossed paths in
(31:14):
the past, because I'm like, you helped me now, I
want to be able to help you, and if I
can build you up, I'm here for it. Because that
positivity is contagious and otherwise more angry harbor. It just
eats at you. And I got tired of that anger
eating at me. It made me a miserable person. How
in the world do you do that? Then? With the
girl that said on TikTok that she met you one
(31:38):
night on a couch or something, how in the world
do you bring that positive perspective into that situation? You know,
I guess I should say this in a fantasy land
there you would love to have there always be a
positive that comes out of every situation, right I'm not
trying to tell people there's I think there's such thing
as like overdoing it, and there's a there's a term
(31:58):
I'm just blanking on it when you are overtly positive
and it's like you're just trying to force positivity. I'm
not saying that everyone should just be like, oh, this
really bad circumstance to happen to me. I need to
find the positive. No, we should like sometimes there are
just some unfortunate situations that happened to us, you know.
I think though, in that it's circumstance. With that girl,
(32:21):
it taught me a lesson that there that people come
from all different backgrounds and you have to understand that
everyone you interact with has a different mindset. For me,
it taught me that to practice, you know, forgiveness. She
taught me the power forgiveness because I thought, you know what,
this girl is out of line. But she's also young,
she's immature, and you know, five years from now, she
(32:41):
won't be hopefully the same person. She'll look back and
be like, yeah, you know, second thought, I probably shouldn't
have done that. And so for me, that's the lesson
she taught me was I need to look at people
and give them grace and understand that you know what, hey,
you did this. It was dumb, whether or not I
believe like you actually believe it was me or you
just made it up. One day, you know, I thought
(33:02):
maybe she possibly made it up for just more more,
you know, more followers. But one day she'll look back
at that and be like, you know, I wish I
wouldn't have done that, and so and I feel bad
for it. And so I try to see people as
not just one fixed point in time, but you know,
how this individual can be over the how they can
grow the same way I did. And I'm like, you know,
people make mistakes. I should just forgive them for it,
(33:23):
unless they continue to make the same mistake at some
point you say, okay, that's just who you are. But
I guess, yeah, forgiveness is what that situation taught me.
Because I was angry. I mean I really want I
wanted to I wanted to see her to the high heavens,
like I was so ready to bury her. But then
I had to step back and go Clayton again, your emotion,
you want to bury her? How are you going to
feel about that? If you ruin her? If you ruin
(33:45):
her and subject her to all that pain and everyone
comes in her DMS and starts telling her how how
terrible she is. Now you've impacted her her health negatively,
and you don't want that. So it helped me. She
taught me to kind of like step back and let
my emotions subside and then make a judgment. Call man,
the last year has been a big year for you.
It's gonna be a good year for so many who
(34:06):
pick up this book and just continue to follow along
with you. But it's been a big year. Um. It
sounds like from me from my perspective on growth and
understanding and forgiveness and positivity and all these things that, yeah,
you know, I would think that you look back on
years from now and be like, I'm glad I went
through that season. Even you know there's some unfortunate parts,
(34:30):
but I'm glad I went through that season because I'm
guessing that your your impact is going to be great
thousand percent. Yeah. I the person I am today is
because of everything I went through, so very grateful, um,
and and so much positivity I had so ben I know,
I got I know, I got asked the co host,
So I really feel like I'm gonna start firing questions
off of you, so we're gonna we're gonna balance this
(34:50):
thing back out here. I appreciate you checking in on me,
but I think, uh, it was that was the final question.
I think it's time for us to do a little
deep dive and to talk some bachelors. Man, all right,
I felt I feel took me. It took me back.
I kind of, I kind of felt a little. I
was like, WHOA, this is weird watching the show again.
I don't know how I feel about this. Yeah, we
are going to balance the act after this episode, which
(35:14):
ends right now, tune into the next episode to hear
Clayton and I Clayton being positive, me being critical of
this season of The Bachelor. Follow the Benn and Ashley
I Almost Famous podcasts on iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you
listen to podcasts.
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with I our radio. It's another episode of the Almost
Famous podcast. Today we are very very fortunate, very lucky,
I would say, to have a very special host with me, Layton.
Welcome to the podcast. Man. Man, last time I saw you,
(00:20):
you were kicking everyone's button golf, and now here we
are on a maybe a little bit more equal playing field.
I like my chances of speaking a lot versus playing golf,
so I might be able to hang with you this time.
This is gonna be a good episode because you just
said the one compliment in the world to me that
means the most to me. So thank you for recognizing
that it's gonna be blast. Yeah. Last that we were together,
(00:43):
you shot like one. We did go golfing at a
beautiful place. You surprised everybody because you don't play golf typically.
You're a monstrous man. You make a club look very
small in your hands, although you're undersized clubs too, I
should say part of it. I think they were bigger
than mine and you make them look small. And then
(01:06):
we went back to the house. I had to actually
head out of town for another event, and I'm on
the plane and I'm on this plane, and all of
a sudden, your name is blowing up everywhere on my
Google alerts, like everywhere. Walk us through what happened after
the golf round that day? And did you expect your
(01:27):
videos with Rachel and Michelle to do what they did? Ben,
You're coming out hot man, I wasn't. I was. I thought,
we're gonna warm up. We are warm enough. This is easy,
this is easy stuff. Oh great, I can't even wait
for what's gonna what's to come? Yeah, you know what
I mean. Well, you know, we were there for a
couple of days and just feeling the situation out right.
(01:49):
Day one, when I came out of the airport and
I first saw Rachel, I was like, do I need
to get ready to duck something a water bottle or
But now she was super sweet and and so we
were all having a good time. And then uh yeah,
when you left, we were all sitting there and we thought,
you know, let's let's just have some fun with this, right,
Like we've how far we've come, and now we can
sit in a room together and and laugh and understand
(02:14):
one another, and we've made amends and let's just have
some fun with this. So uh, yeah, we as I
don't normally don't do anyways, but um, the ideas came
up with TikTok. And I'm not the visionary, but I
can usually add on to things here and there. So
we started talking and so this would be fun if we,
you know, set this up this way, and so we
(02:34):
did and then it popped off and then all of
a sudden, I you know, then I just had to
start answering to some things. And uh but you know again,
for me, more than anything, it just showed that, um,
you know, how far we've all come and how we're
able to to look past kind of all the all
the pain that had presented itself years prior. So, um,
this is a fun moment. But of course people in
(02:55):
the Internet like to like to gas everything up and
and just see if there's something more than what they're
is there, and so of course then all these questions
came and followed. I thought it was super fun. I
think it's really cool just to give perspective because I
talk on this show every week, right, and so it's
always good for people to hear a different perspective. Two
(03:15):
questions for you. One was just the first time you've
ran into somebody on your season that was in the
top four other than Susie. And then two, can you
just speak to a little bit because I know that
it's a very real thing, but some people watch the
show and they don't think like real life and the
show ever connect, Like how odd is it being around
(03:39):
like a Rachel or a Michelle even you know, what
are the nerves? Like what are you feeling walking into
a room where you know you're gonna be around both
these people maybe for the first time. Yeah, So to
answer your first question, I have not I have not
run across Gabby yet. Uh and then um, then Serene
(04:02):
would have been the other person. But yes, I've I've
run across three and a few times because Brandon and
I are very close. Um. And so that was funny
the dynamic when we uh well first like hung out together.
He was like, whoa easy on the hug there, And
he'd be like, hey, hey, y'all are getting too close.
So he was, you know, playing that dynamic of you guys,
I'm gonna keep my eye on you guys. But it
was it was playful and of course like him and
(04:24):
I are such close friends, and and and Serene and
I had had a good um, you know, we have
a good friendship now and I think things ended um
a lot better with her on the show than like
with the with the final three. So there wasn't much
uh there to have to be baby concern about it
or or have to overcome uh. So yeah, I guess
I've I've I've hung out with now three of the
(04:47):
four final yeah individuals. So um, who knows if olive
across the pass a Gabby. I know she's super busy.
But to answer the second half of your question, I
don't really like the nerves for me and and you
can answer. You could probably attest to this. I feel
like after you go through so much, you put your
entire life on display for everyone to judge every facet
(05:08):
of you. They they're gonna look at how you kiss,
They're gonna look at your game, They're gonna look at um,
you know how if you have empathy or not. They're
going to judge your career, They're gonna judge what you're
doing after the show. After all this, these constant eyes
on you, it just kind of starts to become you
just be you, just kind of not I don't know
if hardens the right word, but you're kind of like
battle tested, and so you you just feel that then
(05:32):
whenever you're faced with it with circumstance that maybe normally
would be uncomfortable for most I typically just think, here's
all the things that you've went through and done um
and a lot of these things now just don't really
incite fear in me or concern. My biggest thing is
it's when I step into a situation like that, is
just first off reading the room and making sure, hey,
like do we have that mutual respect? And I want
(05:55):
to make sure we're all good on this and then
and then yeah, can we kind of be playful or
is it something that we need to like step aside
to have a conversation with one another? And so that's
the way I look at it. But I wasn't necessarily
nervous um when I first bumped into Rachel. You know,
it had been a year and the last time we
talked was at Afar. But more than anything, you just
want to make sure that person's okay and that and
(06:16):
that you're cordial and if there's some beef you got
to settle, then it's like, okay, let's go do this
as two mature individuals. Um. So that's the way I
look at it. And with Michelle as well. I mean,
the connection we never got to that place that I
got with maybe someone like Rachel or Gabby or Susie.
Right like with rachel Or, with Michelle, I was taking
out at number eight, So we never had that that
strong of a connection, and we've always been cordial in
(06:39):
that front. So um, I try not to overthink it
these days, which is a big, big statement, but I
don't know. I mean, you have you run into people
from your final four and how do you approach that? Yeah,
I have. I think at this point I've everybody but Kayla.
I've seen or Ina the jojo at an airport okay
um and the airports many dude it was and you
(07:02):
for me, I do get nervous. I'm with you where
you're a little more hardened, you're a little more prepared.
That stuff doesn't affect you. But when I know that
I'm going on a trip, or when i know that
I'm going to be in the same place as somebody
that was on my season, I do get anxious. And
I'll tell you why. And it might be my own issue,
(07:24):
but I always had this idea that all these women
are on a text thread and all these women are
living in the house, and I'm kind of on my
island alone, and You're really only gonna make one person
potentially happy on your season. Everybody else is going to
be mad at you for some reason, and also rightfully
trying to like say whatever they can, you know, to
make themselves feel better about not, you know, the experience
(07:47):
not going the way maybe they thought it would, even
though they all end up very okay over the years.
And so I always walk into these like insecure, feeling
like kind of the the the enemy, the outsider, and
especially when there's more than one of the women on
my season in the same room at sometime, I just
feel like I'm gonna walk into this room and they're
(08:07):
all like gonna be giggling, like you know, and making
fun of me, and I'm gonna be like, yeah, okay,
now you know you can, and I'm taking it all in.
So I do get nervous. Maybe not as much anymore,
but at the beginning, I remember being very anxious for
these moments and very uncomfortable. I thought you handled it
really well. I mean I watched it, you know, I've
(08:28):
been able to be around Rachel now a few times
since her season ended and catch up with her on
her personal life and you know the things she's up
to and her fears and how she's walking through the
process post being a lead. And so I knew the
storyline going into that weekend, like I knew that was
gonna be a thing and kind of be awkward maybe,
(08:49):
And I thought you just handled it well. I thought
you rolled with it. The weekend ended up being a
lot of fun. And I think a lot of that
is how you and Michelle and Rachel handled yourselves, like
you just made it one and you made it funny.
You can have to laugh at it. Maybe that's a
you know, a piece of advice or anybody going through
a breakup and you run into that person again is
(09:09):
maybe if you just can put a smile on your
face and try to have the best time possible, it
makes a lot easier. But yeah, I thought the whole
weekend went well because of the way you three handled yourselves.
You could have gone south. And I will say, yes,
those text threads do exist. I've seen them to some degree,
I've heard of them. But beyond that, though I agree
(09:33):
with you, I went through the same thing that you
went through, where I started to a lot of times, yeah,
project what I thought people were going to how they
would react when they saw me, because I was like, okay,
that they're talking this way about me, so when I
get into a room with them, they're going to be
thinking these thoughts internally. But what I've found a lot
of times and where I've gotten to today, and I
went through everything that you just said that you went through.
(09:53):
I went through the exact thing. But I finally told
myself a lot of times I will project, and then
the outcome will never occur that projecting. So I thought,
if I just go in with an open mind and
with a smile on my face, and I approach it
and say like, let's just speak like like let me
go in here and really just try to be who
I am authentically, but show that I'm willing to just
(10:14):
try to make this work out and establish this this
friendship or whatever it may be. I feel like, what
however you carry yourself is what is going to then
project and rub off onto that other individuals. So if
I'd have walked in with that first interaction and I
would have you know, avoided eye contact and just kind
of like gotten the car right away without saying hello
(10:35):
that entire week it would have been awkward. Right, Like,
whatever energy you project is probably going to be received,
And so I just thought, hey, I'm just gonna walk
out with a smile and just be like, hey, how's
it going, but like in a kind of a humorous
light way of you know, how how are we? But
you know? Again, I think like that energy reads and
and then I found that when you do that a
lot of times it will put someone's guard down and
(10:57):
they go okay, I mean we both. I also did
ask ahead of time, does she know I'm coming or
like she does? I said, okay, well if she hated me,
then as she knows I'm coming, unless she's gonna just
hurl something at me, we're probably okay because she's aware.
So I did check. And then from that point forward,
I thought their interaction is going to be whatever you
make it. So if you decide to be awkward about
(11:18):
it'll be awkward. If you decide to be rude, it'll
be rude. But if you decide to be kind, caring
and attentive, that's the way it'll take it received. And
it was that's what she gave back to me, Well,
I was really glad that we get to spend h
(11:41):
that I get to meet you in person. Right, There's
there's a quality about you obviously that's done. Um, that
there's a quality about you that displays a lot of wisdom.
I think this is just one, you know, for the
TikTok video that came in up. Fans watch it and
they react and they, like you said, they blow it up.
They have their which tektok video because I keep having
(12:03):
more come out. Oh the one with the with Rachel
and Michelle, Well, the one that really got popular. Um.
You know, but I always, especially on this show, like
to go to the behind the scenes and you just
explained it like your mental preparation, how you how you
prepared yourself to meet somebody that you didn't exactly know
how the response would be. And so there's a lot
(12:24):
of wisdom. Um, there's a lot of care um for
your mental state, uh and and how you handle yourself.
And it also displays in your newest project. And we're
gonna get to the show and this episode and we're
gonna you know, blab on about what happened on this episode.
I say, I got a lot a lot to talk
about Man and that show episode and it deals with
with it with the mental aspect side of it too,
(12:45):
the mental health side. So I care, yeah your opinion, Yeah,
well your perspective is going to be great. But before
we get to that, I do want to take a
second and highlight, um, a project that you just came
out with your book. Um, something that we got to
speak about out on the way to the golf course,
something that matters and means a lot to you, that
you worked on very hard for a long time. So
(13:08):
just give your best promo and kind of what people
can expect out of this book before we get to
the opinions of the episode. Yeah, well, I put a
lot into that book. It took me nine months to write,
so it was my baby basically, right, So, and it
really boils down to a story of how an individual
can go from self doubt to self belief and how
(13:31):
individuals can harness that hope that if I've went through that,
then they can as well. So I open up and
just get very candid and try to destigmatize the conversations
around mental health. And the book is for anybody else
who is struggling with depression. Anxiety, comparison, culture, social media,
cyber bowling. It's if anyone's going through a struggle in
(13:53):
their life and feels that they're walking down this path
that's a dark path, and they don't feel like they
can see the light, then, to me, this is what
that book's about. It's it's meant to show somebody, Hey,
I'm I was, I'm walking alongside you right now, you're
not alone in this. Uh. And and as you hear
my story, you may start to see these connections, and
then you'll be able to start pivoting the way that
(14:14):
you view your own reality, and then we can hopefully
get you to a place where you start to see
that light off in the distance and you start walking
toward it. So, um, that's essentially what the book is.
In a nutshell, I've had to get really good at
trying to nutshell it because it's just so much that
I'm passionate about that's in the book. But uh, it's
a story of self doubt to self belief and that
(14:35):
that that path and how to get there. Um and
and just yeah, that's that's the best way I can
describe it. What's the name of the book? Where can
people pick it up and find it. I don't know
A agrees uh, And it's if you go on my Instagram,
I keep everything funnel there. Click on the link in
my bio and it'll take you to that Amazon link.
It's on Amazon um for purchase. So to close here,
(14:59):
Why why is this topic important to you? I mean,
it's obviously important for you personally. You saw that this
was your story. You wanted to work on things and
move through things and grow as a human. But why
do you I mean, why do you care if anybody
else does it? Because I think we're all more alike
than we realized. We all have these insecurities, but I
(15:21):
think where a lot of us struggle as we don't
address them, we just continue to suppress them. And the
more we suppress them, we don't know if anyone else
is going through it because we're not willing to have
the conversations. This will tie into the episode from last
night because it's I saw a lot of it and
it really hit home with me where I was relating
to a lot of the women relating to Zach as well,
(15:43):
and where these insecurities can start to bubble up and
when you feel that you're not able to talk about
it because you're afraid of how it might be received.
Then you end up getting into your own head, you
end up projecting, you end up making these assumptions, and
you can't be your one hundred percent authentic self and
you either close off or you have an outburst of emotion.
(16:05):
And so that's why I'm having these conversations. I thought
it was just very timely and and you know, to
watch the episode and to see this happening with a
few within the individuals and the show, and I thought,
this is not just show related though, this is real
life related. Right. We oftentimes we struggle, but we just
(16:25):
don't talk about it. And if we did, we'd realize
that if you open up to the right people, it
brings you closer together, it doesn't tear you farther apart.
So that's why I'm talking about it because I'm like, hey, guys,
look look at me. I'm happy and after everything I
went through, and I'm opening up and I continue to do.
So why am I opening up? Because I must be
getting some type of positive response and it's helping me.
(16:46):
So that's if someone sees that, they go, well, maybe
I can do it too. And everyone that I talked
to you. They do it and they feel a lot
better and they think, why didn't I open up years ago?
So that's why I'm having this conversation, just to get
more people to feel comfortable with doing it. Yeah, well
for me to you, you know my opinion. Um, we're
probably close to the same age. How do you twenty
(17:07):
nine three zero? Yeah, some thirty three okay, so we're
not too far apart. But you know, I've I was
young when I went on the show and have had
you know, six and a half seven years of going
through this process. And um, it's always interesting when you
get to meet a lead. We didn't get to speak
(17:27):
before your season, but it's always interesting for me when
when I get to meet the lead post show, because
things change. No matter if you believe there are going
to or not right, the criticism happens. That's part of
what you sign up for. You don't know it at
the time, but you sign up to be criticized, and
you sign up to be celebrated, and you signed up
to be critiqued. Then you sign up for all these
things because people watch the show for entertainment, and after
(17:47):
a while, you kind of just accept that because it happens,
and it happens to Everybody's happened to me, it's happened
to you, it's happening to zac Um. But it's one
of the coolest questions that I get to hear somebody ask,
or maybe I get to ask to a lead Bachelor
or Bachelor post show, is what do you want to
do with this? Like you have, necessarily, the world's not
(18:08):
your oyster right. You don't have every opportunity in the world.
Nobody's gonna hire you to host the coolest, biggest show
on TV, and most of the time you have to
kind of figure out your own lane, which we talked
about as well. But the big question is what do
you want out of all of this or what do
you want the world to benefit from from you having
this platform? And it's it's incredible. Not everybody does it,
(18:30):
and I didn't do it at first. I kind of
had to learn the hard way, but it's incredible to
see somebody a year out from their season, spending your
platform in your time to try to benefit not only
yourself but the fans and the people that have followed
your story and our interest in your story. So that's
kudos to you because the world will be a better
(18:52):
place because of this book and because of having these conversations.
And I think that's a big deal. I was going
to ask you for me. I feel like I found
my why. Um, and it's really cool to have gotten
(19:13):
to that point. Did you did you feel like you
found your why after the show? It? Did it kind
of push you into figuring out who I am and
what I want in life? Or were you already did
you already know that prior to the show? Um? What
what did the show kind of do for you outcome wise?
When when you came off it? Because I know I
know your backstory. I mean, I I guess I beat
your record a record. I wasn't trying to be. You
(19:33):
told two people that you love them, and I decided
to I decided to go to the extra mile. So, um,
but I I know you're well. I heard you were
well received. But I mean, overall, what did the experience
do you afterwards? I mean, did you have to do
a deep dive as well and to your identity and
figure out like what am I going to take from
this and where do I go from here? It's a
(19:54):
great question. Um. At first, I became very excited about
the fame, and I didn't realize I was being excited
about the fame, right, You'd be invited to these red carpets,
you'd be at these parties, you'd still be on the
cover of magazines. People will be talking about you. You'd
be getting emails every day and turning down opportunities, and
that slowly, not slowly, that quickly goes away, kind of like, yeah,
(20:18):
it goes quick. But I was still doing cooler stuff
than I'd ever done before. And there was a moment
in time that it hit me. I was in an
airport after an event where I met I forget who
what actor. I think it was Samuel L. Jackson, And
I called up my family and I was telling him
this and they were like, that's awesome, Like how was he?
And I was like, wait, that's not the response I
(20:39):
was expecting. Like I don't know what I was expecting,
but I was expecting you to think I was super
cool for being at the same party as Samuel L.
Jackson and like celebrating me because I was at the
same party and now I've made it, and like they didn't.
And then I called my friends kind of expecting the
same response. And they didn't at all give me the
same response. They never could. They never cared about what
I was doing. They just wanted to hang out and
(21:01):
watch football and group, yeah, I do. And I got
very lonely, and so I called up one of my buddies,
who's a good counsel to me and a very wise friend,
and I I was telling him my feelings and my
emotions here and like what I was expressing, and how
I was getting angry at my family and my friends
(21:22):
because they weren't celebrating me like I thought they should
or would. And he goes, Ben, what if this whole
thing was meant to be for something bigger than yourself?
What if this was never meant to be about you?
And that statement alone changed everything for me. Now, my work,
my passions, and the things I really cared about existed
before the show. But what the show did was it
(21:46):
handed me a platform that allowed that why to be
kind of catalyzed to a bigger like purpose. And so
now I had this platform that wasn't about me standing
relevant and wasn't about me staying famous, and wasn't about
me making headlines. But now that platform allowed me to advocate,
to share, to connect to build community around things that
(22:11):
I already had a purpose in, but I just didn't
feel like I can make the impact, Like I didn't
know what my impact was within those organizations or those
social causes until really the show and now I have,
you know. Luckily, for me, I don't know where I
would have been without the show. Luckily, that platform has
handed me a the ability to have a skill set
like I can now, you know, with a push of
(22:32):
a button advocate on behappy people. So I think the
show helped me afterwards just feel like I had a
purpose in my why where I don't know. I hope
I would have found that purpose without the show. I
think I could have. I just don't I don't know
how that journey would have looked. So Yeah, I mean
the show helped a lot in my why, but it
(22:53):
helped it was for the most part, it was it
was a growing process for me, which it sounds like
it is for you and you hope it is for
every person that comes off the show, cast, member, or
lead that the show helps them grow at some level. Yeah,
I think what I've seen in my own as I've
observed individuals as there's two ways you can go about it.
(23:14):
You can become more egotistical because you can come off
the show and say I was the guy or the
gal and I'm the big time and everyone's been kissing
my butt and they'll continue to and I'm I'm up
here right. I've seen people just go completely through the
roof with their ego, and then I've seen other individuals
that have sacrificed to ego more than ever. They they
see it and they say, this is bigger than me.
(23:36):
You know, this is what I have now, I'm grateful for.
But I'm going to stay humbled and I'm going to
be able to use this for good however it may go.
So it's hard, though, I don't blame anybody for getting
a little egotistical. When everyone's patting you on the back
and you're getting all these backstage events and everyone's telling
you how great you are and how you know you're
you're you know what doesn't stink, and everyone's just right
(23:57):
there beside you, and so you get pumped up, pump
up up, pump up. You're used to it, and then
all of a sudden, like you said, it gets pulled
out from you under you very quickly, and then you
start to question like, well, am I just not who
I used to be? Am I not worthy of that
those compliments anymore? In reality was is people were probably
pushing you up a little bit more than what you know.
They probably treated you a little bit more in a
(24:17):
higher regard than like what they maybe should have, because
it was all a lot of those individuals who just
around you and maybe want to be in the same
room as you. But to your point, you know you
got good friends when the entire time they're just like,
I don't care, man, let's watch football. I don't want
to want. I don't care about the fact that you
met so and so or that you got this back.
That's cool, buddy, But like you know, let's just talk life.
But it's hard because you, as the lead, you balance
(24:39):
that of you know, everyone puts me up here, So
where do I land? Am I up here? Or am
I here? Where do I? Where do I fit? And
what are the expectations of me? Too? And there seems
like there's so many especially being the lead, it's like
perfection or nothing. If you're not perfect, good luck. And
we can jump into that because I know we were
talking about it. We'll talk about it coming up here,
but I've was you know, I've seen some of the
(25:01):
things that he's done and people have ripped him to
shreds for and I'm opinionated on that and I got
something to say about it when we get to that point,
because I'm like, what do you expect out of someone
to be perfect for two months? I mean, I'd love
to see the relationships of everybody that seems to be
condemning individuals, because I'm like, let's put a camera on
you for two months and see if if we catch
you at your lowest moment one time. Chances Sorry, we
(25:23):
got sixty days to do so I'm sure we can. Yeah. Well,
as we've teased, we're going to you can you can
follow in the almost famous thread right after this episode,
we're going to break down the Bachelor and the Bachelor headlines.
It's going to be great, And I'm gonna try to
play in that episode a little Devil's advocate to you
because i want you to come at the positive perspective
(25:46):
and I'm gonna push you a little bit so that
we can really get to understand what it's like to
be the lead and the good and the bad and
the uglies and where you can mess up with all that.
I'm excited to do that with you. I haven't done
it with a with a co bachelor in a long time.
But a final question for you on our little catch
up here, Clayton, something else I've respected about you that
(26:06):
I've watched from a distance is something that I can't
claim to have had. I don't have a bad relationship
with Lauren my X from the show. We have a
good relationship right He's married, two kids, and I'm married,
and we're living our two separate lengths. But there hasn't
been really a place in time where there's been mutual
public support. We never like really healed. We just kind
(26:29):
of moved on, which is good and fine for where
we're at now. But you and Susie seemed to support
each other in a humorous way, also in a very
real way, in a way that seems very healthy to me,
like something I'm learning from from an outsider, and it's
convicting me in a lot of ways that I wish
I would have maybe done things differently, or at least
(26:50):
tried to do things differently. So if you can, obviously
people care and want to know what is your relationship
like with Susie today and also within that if you
could speak to how you got to the Police of health, um,
so that you could be like you two are today,
How in the world did that happen? And was it
intentional and unintentional? Just give us some insight. Yeah, you know,
(27:13):
I think it took a conscious effort and decision to
decide how are we going to move forward with this?
I think when you when you experience a breakup, there's
so much pain that's involved, right, and usually we're at
the height of our emotions, and that's when we can
say things we don't mean we can we can go
down this this dark path of attacking because we're hurt, right, Like,
(27:35):
we feel that a part of us was stripped from
us when we weren't ready for it to be taken,
and so and then we start to think, well, what
did I do wrong? It must have been my fault. Well,
then we'll go from that to well, no, it's not me,
it's them, they're the problem. And then it doesn't help
that we have friends and family that say they don't
know what they're looking for, they're missing out on a
good person, and so then they validate, they validate that
(27:56):
that belief of it's not my fault, it's their fault.
And so then you start to think about all the
things that they did that you didn't like, and you go, yeah,
they're not worthy, and so then you start to think, well, yeah,
this is their fault. And I think that's where in
the past I've had this with relationships where then I
start to point the finger. Somebody asked me why, you know,
why why did so and so and you not work
out because she had this issue or she did this
(28:20):
and I couldn't put up with it. But I didn't
like that. I never when I did that in my
past relationships, I always felt that I harbored this motion,
that I could never let go of it, and it hurts,
and it closed me off to other relationships because I thought,
I don't want to go back to that. I don't
want to experience that again. So then I thought, let
me reframe this. How what is it I feel like
(28:43):
I should be able to walk away from a relationship
and be grateful, because why do we have this negative
view point on somebody that we spend years of our
life with and all of a a sudden we act like
we hate them and we have nothing but bad things
to say about them. It's like, what about all the
good times you had three years or however many, how
long it was, how about all the good times? You
stayed with him for a reason. You loved him for
(29:03):
a reason, You fell in love with him for a reason,
So what are those reasons? And I think for me,
I started to think about all that with Susie. I
thought why did I fall in love with this woman?
And I remember I always thought every time I was
around her, she made me want to be a better person,
and so I every time I woke up, I was
trying to be a better version of myself. And she
(29:24):
pushed me, and she held me accountable, and she was
there and consoled me when I needed it. And there's
so many things. I could sit here for an hour
and say all the things that she did for me,
But I had to reflect upon that every time I
would get emotional and think why did this not work
out between us? Why couldn't you try harder to make
this work? I had to take a step back and think,
(29:48):
everything happens for a reason. I believe in that. But
understand all the things that she did for you, and
you wouldn't be the person you are today if it
wasn't for her. And so I kept when I had
negative self talk, I kept instantly putting positive self talk in.
I was like, second I had a negative thought about it,
I'm like, nope, nope, nope, don't replace that. And I
kept fighting it until finally I thought, you know what,
I am a legitimately better person because of her, and
(30:09):
if I would have never met her, I would not
be half the person I am today. And then I
thought back to my other relationships previously, and I thought, well,
she taught me, you know, the she taught me manners. This,
this girl taught me the power of chivalry. This this
she taught me the ability to show my emotions and
open up. And so I thought, you know, there's all
this positive things that I've I've taken from people in
(30:31):
my life. I just need to remember those when I
remember that person, so I have a positive association with them.
And then what I found was all the negativity that
I heart harbored m was just pain. But really I
let it all go. And so when I think of
my exes now, I think all the lessons they taught me,
not the pain that they caused me. And that's why
(30:52):
I can always have a positive outlook on them and
I can speak highly of them because the first when
you say Susie, I think of all the things she
did for me, not all the pain she caused me.
And so that reframe has been critical, and I've been
really grateful to have learned that, because now I mean
I'm her biggest supporter, and I'll be you know, I'll
be anyone else's bigges supporter that I've crossed paths in
(31:14):
the past, because I'm like, you helped me now, I
want to be able to help you, and if I
can build you up, I'm here for it. Because that
positivity is contagious and otherwise more angry harbor. It just
eats at you. And I got tired of that anger
eating at me. It made me a miserable person. How
in the world do you do that? Then? With the
girl that said on TikTok that she met you one
(31:38):
night on a couch or something, how in the world
do you bring that positive perspective into that situation? You know,
I guess I should say this in a fantasy land
there you would love to have there always be a
positive that comes out of every situation, right I'm not
trying to tell people there's I think there's such thing
as like overdoing it, and there's a there's a term
(31:58):
I'm just blanking on it when you are overtly positive
and it's like you're just trying to force positivity. I'm
not saying that everyone should just be like, oh, this
really bad circumstance to happen to me. I need to
find the positive. No, we should like sometimes there are
just some unfortunate situations that happened to us, you know.
I think though, in that it's circumstance. With that girl,
(32:21):
it taught me a lesson that there that people come
from all different backgrounds and you have to understand that
everyone you interact with has a different mindset. For me,
it taught me that to practice, you know, forgiveness. She
taught me the power forgiveness because I thought, you know what,
this girl is out of line. But she's also young,
she's immature, and you know, five years from now, she
(32:41):
won't be hopefully the same person. She'll look back and
be like, yeah, you know, second thought, I probably shouldn't
have done that. And so for me, that's the lesson
she taught me was I need to look at people
and give them grace and understand that you know what, hey,
you did this. It was dumb, whether or not I
believe like you actually believe it was me or you
just made it up. One day, you know, I thought
(33:02):
maybe she possibly made it up for just more more,
you know, more followers. But one day she'll look back
at that and be like, you know, I wish I
wouldn't have done that, and so and I feel bad
for it. And so I try to see people as
not just one fixed point in time, but you know,
how this individual can be over the how they can
grow the same way I did. And I'm like, you know,
people make mistakes. I should just forgive them for it,
(33:23):
unless they continue to make the same mistake at some
point you say, okay, that's just who you are. But
I guess, yeah, forgiveness is what that situation taught me.
Because I was angry. I mean I really want I
wanted to I wanted to see her to the high heavens,
like I was so ready to bury her. But then
I had to step back and go Clayton again, your emotion,
you want to bury her? How are you going to
feel about that? If you ruin her? If you ruin
(33:45):
her and subject her to all that pain and everyone
comes in her DMS and starts telling her how how
terrible she is. Now you've impacted her her health negatively,
and you don't want that. So it helped me. She
taught me to kind of like step back and let
my emotions subside and then make a judgment. Call man,
the last year has been a big year for you.
It's gonna be a good year for so many who
(34:06):
pick up this book and just continue to follow along
with you. But it's been a big year. Um. It
sounds like from me from my perspective on growth and
understanding and forgiveness and positivity and all these things that, yeah,
you know, I would think that you look back on
years from now and be like, I'm glad I went
through that season. Even you know there's some unfortunate parts,
(34:30):
but I'm glad I went through that season because I'm
guessing that your your impact is going to be great
thousand percent. Yeah. I the person I am today is
because of everything I went through, so very grateful, um,
and and so much positivity I had so ben I know,
I got I know, I got asked the co host,
So I really feel like I'm gonna start firing questions
off of you, so we're gonna we're gonna balance this
(34:50):
thing back out here. I appreciate you checking in on me,
but I think, uh, it was that was the final question.
I think it's time for us to do a little
deep dive and to talk some bachelors. Man, all right,
I felt I feel took me. It took me back.
I kind of, I kind of felt a little. I
was like, WHOA, this is weird watching the show again.
I don't know how I feel about this. Yeah, we
are going to balance the act after this episode, which
(35:14):
ends right now, tune into the next episode to hear
Clayton and I Clayton being positive, me being critical of
this season of The Bachelor. Follow the Benn and Ashley
I Almost Famous podcasts on iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you
listen to podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Ben Higgins
Ashley Iaconetti
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