March 16, 2022 • 46 mins
After a finale LIKE THAT… Ashley needs someone from the front lines to help break it all down, so Serene Russell is here to share her thoughts on Clayton’s finale.
Why did Clayton break up with Gabby and Rachel in a group?? Just one of the many questions we have after last night.
Serene shares the moment she realized that Clayton was not “her person”.
And we look at Jesse Palmer’s future as the host of The Bachelor. Do we like him??
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with IR Radio. Hi everyone, welcome to like the zillion
Almost Famous podcast this week, because after this one we
have another one. So today, right now, today I'm with
the beautiful Serene, and then in a couple hours I'm
(00:21):
gonna be with Clayton and Susie, So stay tuned for
that episode. But hello, Serene, let's talk about this finale. Um,
after watching the past two weeks, back, the two weeks
that you weren't a part of in real life, what
are your feelings about everything? Are you glad you were
eliminated when you were That's the million dollar question, right, Yeah,
(00:46):
I kind of left before everything hit the fan, and
you know, I was so sad and heartbroken at the time,
and obviously time helped with that. But UM, yeah, I'm
glad I wasn't there. When did you feel recovered from
the heartbreak? Um? You know, maybe like a month after
(01:07):
I had left, Um, a month and a half. Um,
I had a lot of time to reflect and think.
I'm a teacher and so I didn't come back teaching
until the next semester started, and so I had some
time off. Okay, Well, during your hometown. Everyone fell in
love with your brother. He's awesome. There was like chance
(01:28):
that we should have him be the next Bachelor. How
did he take that last week two weeks ago? Oh
my goodness. He is like still so shocked with everything. Um,
he is just excited to be here. He was last night.
He was with me last night too, So it's a
whole new world. I'm a little more used to it
(01:49):
at this point than he is. But oh, it would
be so fun. Okay, I'm gonna plant an idea that's
probably already in the producer's heads, but I want to
put it out there to the public. Why don't you
bring him to Bachelor in Paradise with you? Like I
brought my sister to Bachelor in Paradise. It's been done before.
(02:09):
Oh my goodness. Um, yeah, he's a good time. He's
a good time. So we're doing this. He's my brother,
and so I'm like, I don't know, I don't know,
I don't know, but you know, I'm trying to let
him live in his moment and of his own experiences too,
so you can have separate experiences in Paradise. Right, I'm like,
(02:33):
I don't want you to see me kiss anyone the
palm tree, right exactly? Okay, Well, Um, overall, how would
you say your your bachelor experience has been and and
are you willing to do Paradise? Yeah? I actually had
(02:55):
a really good experience. You know, aside from it being
really hard leaving at the time and feeling like I
didn't have what I needed in that in those moments leaving, um,
it ended up being a really good experience. I learned
so much about myself. You know, so many friends that
you know, we've gone through this crazy experience together. No
(03:16):
one else really understands like what we just went through,
and so we're all really tighten it. Um. So it
was a wonderful experience. Would do it again? Um, I
honestly would love to go to Paradise. Um. I am
still you know, single and still wanting to find my guy,
(03:37):
and you know, there are some cuties out there, so
I'm just hopeful and excited that I'll get to be there.
You can't say there are some cuties without naming who
you think is cute. Oh god, on see, I shot
myself in this. Um. Yeah, I'm mean there are multiple.
(04:01):
It's just hard though, because I'm so big on personality
that I don't want to say anything and then be
like glued to it because I feel like, you know,
I can think someone's attractive and then meet them and
then it's just like not the vibe, you know what
I mean? So big on personalities, So it's I don't know,
it's kind of hard to say, but there there are
a couple. Okay, well that's a great way of getting
(04:21):
out of answering that question. I'll give you one more chance.
Who do you think it's cute? Now? It's okay, I
already put you on the spot. It's fine, it's fine,
We'll we'll find out soon enough. I'm sure who you're into.
Who you ask the producers that you want to be there,
And there's a whole other season of guys that you'll
get to choose from. When you see your friends Gabby
(04:43):
and Rachel become bachelorette, and then you'll get their quote
quote rejects. How okay, how do you feel about Gabby
and Rachel both being Bachelorette? I need to give my
little two cents on this. Ever since Caitlin and Um
and britt we're you know, seven years ago both chosen
(05:03):
the Bachelorette, I thought this is how that season was
going to go. When I initially heard two bachelorettes, I
was like, oh, okay, they'll like date together. It will
be like, oh, group date with Gabby, a group date
with Rachel. That's very much the way that Joe Millionaire
went this year. I wonder if they were inspired by that. Okay,
so I said that sounds a cool idea, and then
(05:25):
they ended up having to choose, you know, between Caitlin
and Britt and then that was like not so cool.
But ever since I had you know, not just me,
but like that idea was planted that two girls could
date the group at the same time. I thought they
should do that. So I'm really excited, and I think
like Rachel and Gabby are both very likable. I think
(05:45):
we would be sad for the other one if they
didn't get the opportunity. So back to my question for you,
how do you feel about your I'm assuming two friends
becoming the bachelorette together. I love them both so much,
and I don't think that there was a better scenario.
(06:05):
Like at all, um, I hadn't thought about the chance
of their being two of them, just because we had
to last the last two seasons, so I wasn't really sure,
like what that minute here about it, But I'm so
happy for both of them. They so deserve it. They
are both like the kindest, most funny women. They're gonna
(06:30):
be entertaining to watch. And you know, I'm here for
the love stories to like it's living in the house
with him. I fell in love with them, you know,
So I think it will be so easy for the
audience to do the same, for thirty men to do
the same. They're both incredible. It is going to be
so interesting to watch. I wonder how it's going to work.
(06:51):
I did not watch Joe Millionaire, but I've heard about it.
But you know, I've seen the tweets of people being
like that would be interesting, um, and now it's happening.
So do they have similar taste in men? Do we
know their type outside of Clayton? I, you know, I
think that they're so different in every way. Yeah, they
(07:13):
really are both obviously dated Clayton and so, and you
know they had they were both really invested in their
relationships with him, and so I think there might be
a little bit of crossing over. But they have the
same type. I can already foresee. It's ord they're gonna
(07:34):
both like one guy. He's gonna well, they're like gonna
be really invested in one guy. And I'm sure like
they'll each have like a couple, you know, individually, but
then there's gonna be this one guy who both of
them want to take the top three, and then he's
gonna say I love them both. Yeah, but like that's
(07:55):
so it's crazy to think though, like are they going
to have to pick like for hometowns, like or the
guys going to have to pick who they go with?
Or can they go with both or like I'm sure
they're going to kind of make it up as they go.
Whatever is the most dramatic scenario. They'll probably go. Yeah,
oh my goodness, wild to think about. Craziness. All right, seriously,
(08:19):
so many It's gonna keep each week interesting and I
love that. We definitely need something fresh. I'm excited. I
think they're going to get a boost in viewers because
of it. Let's take a quick break and we will
go through this finale straight through. All right. Let's start
(08:48):
with Clayton Um talking to Susie. Basically she comes to
his room or I guess Jesse comes to Susie's room
and is like, so, Clayton really wants to be with you, basically,
and then she knocks on the door. She says hello
quickly to his parents, pulls him aside, and that's when
(09:09):
he's basically like, I'm going I just want to be
with you. I love you the most again, right, you
know I still love you the most. And then she's
he basically says in that moment, I'm going to dump
the other girls because like I want to be with you.
(09:30):
Even if it turns out that you don't want to
be with me, I'm gonna let you go and linger
this over and um yeah, but my decisions made like
it's you or nothing. So then he goes and he
breaks up with the other girls together. What are your
thoughts on this? Why does he do everything together? Why
(09:51):
are all these big moments together. I have to say,
like Caitlin Bristow and I were talking a little bit yesterday,
it just seems like, you know, the poor guy was
very had no backbone with like production suggestions. I honestly like,
I have no clue because I never would have done that.
(10:13):
And I know it's easy to say that having not
been in his shoes. But I just I can't imagine
the scenario of breaking up with people in a group
like that. Um I mean I even thought like telling
you know them you love them in a group together,
even though he had said it like separately, I wouldn't
(10:36):
have done that either, because in turn you end up
having to have two separate conversations. Anyway, Um, I was
so like that was what I was in the most
shocked by. I mean, I think pretty much every I think, yeah,
that was the moment that was the most jaw dropping.
It was like, Okay, I saw him wanting to be
(10:57):
with Susie and like, you know, like trying to pursue
that all the way. But I didn't foresee this group
break up. I think, you know, and I think no
matter what it was going to be, you know, it
already turned into a mess. It was going to be heartbreaking,
um for whoever. And that was going to be hard
decision and uncomfortable decision for him. But at the same time,
(11:19):
like I get it, like follow your heart, like if
you feel sick, like you can't choose the other two,
Like I get it, But the breaking up with them
at the same time thing was what I was the
most jarred by. Um I it was really hard to watch.
And then it's like, Okay, you're leaving with someone to
(11:39):
go check on them, and then leaving someone there. I
just thought that there should have been like two separate conversations.
I mean, it's for me to say like what I
would have done, but like, I'm not the Bachelor, but
like that I didn't agree with that, and that was
it was really hard to watch. Yeah, we've seen similar
situations where the Bachelor, the lead would ever go and
(12:00):
breaks up with multiple people at this point in the
cool competition process process, and it's always them like knocking
on separate doors. So very very bizarre. And it's and
when people I'm assuming when people say, like the way
that he treated like there's lots of comments online being
(12:20):
like I can't believe the way that he treated Gabby
in Rachel. What's your take on that? Because my take
is the fact that he's doing this in a group
setting and like not treating them like with a lot
of empathy I think. But like, I think people need
(12:41):
to realize this is something that Caitlin and I were
talking about yesterday. This is still the process, This is
still the Bachelor process, we still eliminate people down to
the person that we want to be with. And I
think that like somewhere along the way in the past
couple of weeks that was muddled and maybe in again,
like guys, I keep referencing the Caitlin conversation, but we
(13:03):
didn't really break this down. I think that possibly that's
because we're rooting for these girls harder than we're rooting
for Clayton. And that's probably because we didn't really know Clayton,
because you know, we didn't get attached to him on
a previous season. So here we are knowing the girls
just as much as him, And I think that people
(13:26):
are kind of forgetting that this is the bachelor process,
like he has to dump people in order to be
with the person who wants to be with. Yeah, I know,
so true. There is something I've been thinking about also though,
like as far as like you know, empathy and like
thinking things through. He didn't go to hometowns, he didn't
go to fantasy suites. Yeah, that's that's the thing. He
doesn't know how that feels, how it feels, um, you know,
(13:51):
I'm sure he had an idea of like how invested
they both were, like you could see it in his
face when he talked to them, But um, yeah, I
mean I think it was just you know, it's his
first time doing this and so he wasn't really you know,
I think at the time he thought he was doing
the best thing. Um. I really have to wonder with him,
(14:13):
you know, deciding to go in there in a group,
like did we all know that he was just going
to go break up with them together or did anybody
say maybe we should have separate conversations or was he like, no,
this is how I want to do it. I don't know,
He's like, I want to rub the band right off.
I don't want you this twice, like he had to
have two separate conversations anyways, So, um, I don't know.
(14:37):
It's so tough and it's I that was like the
hardest part for me to watch, especially like them both
being my friends and like, you know, convincing Gabby to
stay like she wanted to leave, And like my issue
is that too, that there's the issue is like just
(14:57):
begging for her to stay, saying that like staying is
a testament to the relationship. That's like a whole different
thing though, because then you get to like the elimination
of it all, Like that is part of the process.
Like when I got broken up with my whole thing
was I'm not mad you're breaking up with me. I'm
mad that like I feel like you're not really giving
me answers. That's where I remember you saying that, and
(15:18):
so it's like, you know, I think for them it
was probably similar a lot more painful because you know
they did have that intimate time and like hours on
end together with like no interruption. But like it's just
it's so tough to think about, like not like being
addressed in a group so often. It kind of like
(15:43):
do not feel like an individual? Yeah, well I'm thinking yeah,
I just like Gabby says, you know, you took two
days away from me that I could have been with
my friends and family. And I totally see that side
where it's like you dragged me on for another two
days after begging me to stay. That's so messed up.
(16:05):
But ag'in to play Devil's Out Avoca. It's kind of
the process. It's like you need the yeah, you need
like the amount of days that you need to make
the decision. I still love Gab. I love the way
that Gabby handled herself in that moment. She just was
like no, Bis, she was like, no, yeah, I don't
really want to hear it from you. You're like, you're
I'm over I'm really over this. I think they handled
(16:26):
this brig up exactly how we imagined, which was basically
how they didn't last. The previous night's episode, Rachel extremely emotional,
just like would do anything to stay with him, and
then Gabby just being like nah, goodbye. She just I
feel like she really knew her worth. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Um.
(16:50):
I knew Rachel was going to be a little harder
to watch just because I know Rachel. Um. I knew
Gabby would probably have a different ever reaction. Um, I
was trying to think. I'm like, how would I react
in this situation? And I feel like I would have
been a little more like Gabby. So that's awesome. Caitlin
(17:11):
and I were saying, we wish we could be Gabby,
but we know we'd be Rachel. I know I would
be Rachel, justly Rachel. Behind the scenes. I like, I
don't know if you saw my face when I left,
I was stone cold, and then I got I cried
as soon as I walked into the hose. Well good
through you. I love that you're able to keep the
(17:33):
poise and then break down. That is an admirable quality
I wish I had. Oh no, I wasn't trying, Like
I was just shocked, so like I didn't hit you.
Then I was extended a little like Piste at the
same time. Um yeah, it was. It was. I knew
Rachel was going to be really hard to watch, Like
I had tears in my eyes. I'm like trying to
(17:53):
like suck them back into my eyeballs, like watching last night.
Um yeah, but I I mean I know, ultimately, you know,
it comes down to the decision. It comes down to
the process, and like if Susie was still there, and
Susie ended up meeting the family even briefly, and that's
what he decided he wanted. I don't think either of
them had an issue with that being his choice. It
(18:17):
was just like the way that he got to that
choice and the way he navigated the decisions, like prior
to that, what was what like that was what was
so hurtful? I think, um, because like no one wants
to be chosen just because someone else isn't there, and
they both made that, you know, and I think just
like the process that, like the actual process that was chosen,
(18:41):
like the path that was chosen to get there, is
what was so tough to watch and just so hard
for both of them, you know, a little synopsis of
Gabby and Clayton on stage together with Jesse Um. Gabby
tells Clayton that watching it back makes her feel super misled.
(19:02):
She said she wasn't given all the information, especially when
she was deciding whether she wanted to leave or not.
And she said, that's what hurts the most. She feels betrayed.
And he said, there's nothing, um, I can do more
than apologize. And he says, watching it back, you know,
he wished he could have handled it differently and didn't
have any bad intentions. When she says that she wasn't
given all the information, is that the fact that what? What?
(19:26):
Is that? What? What didn't she say? I guess I
guess that he loved that. He said, yeah, he forgot
to tell them. I love you both, but I love
Susie the most. That's that's a big missing part. Yeah,
I think you know, even watching you know, the Fantasy
suitet dates. By the end of each of them I
(19:47):
was like, they each think they're the one, right, definitely
think they're the one, which is like, you know, I
assume part of the normal experience. Yeah, if you've been,
if you're hold I love you in the fantasy suite,
you're pretty sure that you're the one. Yeah. Yeah. So um,
I don't know. I don't know exactly what she meant
(20:10):
by that. I mean there was a lot of information
left out there was you know, I think he was
so focused on trying to keep them there that he
was just sharing, you know, like I don't want you
to leave, like I want to see this through with you.
But then the other side of that was I guess
(20:31):
he wasn't being like fully transparent about like his other feelings,
like yeah, I'm shattered Susie's gone, but like I still
want to explore this with you. But like in his
mind he was like, oh my goodness, this might be
like over for me. I guess, I guess. But maybe
am I like giving him too much credit and thinking that,
like it maybe didn't dawn on him that he wanted
(20:51):
to go after Susie until after the two met his family.
I think he did, but he was so mad when
she had that conversation with him at the end of
their date, like that kind of blinded his view of
like what you really wanted, and he was like reacting,
(21:12):
I think to that and just trying to move on
from that. Like you see him shut the door and
he's like everything happens for a reason. Um, And so
I think maybe his mind changed or maybe he thought
differently in that moment, but it was just like a
rush of emotions and like his true feelings of like okay,
like I do love you the most, We're still there. Yeah,
(21:35):
like he needed time to soften a little bit, right right, Yeah, okay.
So then one other last thing about Gabby and Clayton
up on stage together. Um, Clayton says, I want you
to know that I did have love for all of you.
And then Gabby says, when you say love someone, you're
you're assuming responsibility to love them and to care for them,
(21:56):
and you didn't do any of those things. What do
you think about him actually truly being in love and
using Like I I kind of I agree with her.
I was I was talking to yesterday. I really think
that he was in lust with all of them and
was just getting really confused because it didn't really seem
like love, especially when we see the behavior. I don't know,
(22:20):
and it's like, I've never been in love with multiple
people at once. I've never thought I was in love
with multi multiple people at once. So it's hard to
imagine like where he's coming from with that. And like
I thought it was interesting too when Gabby, you know,
said I do think I could fall in love with
more than one person. Yeah, She's like, I might just
(22:42):
like navigate it differently or something. I can't believe these
girls are totally going to be haunted by this. There's
gonna be multiple loves in this upcoming season. Yeah, um yeah.
But I think I think my issue was more of
I had love for both of you. It's like you're
still putting them in a group when you're having a
singular conversation. And I was like, again, but I do
(23:09):
think he deeply cared for them. I mean, and I'm
saying that too because I left right before all of this,
like I felt like he maybe could love me too,
and so I think it's just he had like a
wild experience and like wasn't prepared for all of that.
I mean, I can't, I can't, even like I think,
(23:35):
you know, falling in love and being in love are
different things. I get confused on you know, he said
he was in love or falling in love to who
or what? Like, I get confused about all of that.
I think he said he loved them both and he
was falling in love with both of them, but so
(23:57):
many different ways of saying it. On The Bachelor, Yeah, yeah,
I think you know, to be in love with someone
like that, you would be a little more I don't know,
respect their boundaries at that time. You know, someone says
I'm done, like there's still multiple people there and like
you're fighting for all of them. Like I think that
(24:21):
there was love there, but like what that looks like
for him, Like I don't know. Rachel something about like
she didn't know what his definition of love was, Like
I don't, I have no clue, Like I'm confused as
the rest of us by all of this. Um, yeah,
well you know the man, So that makes me feel
(24:41):
like I can listen to your opinion with like a
little bit more strength. Yeah, yeah, for sure, And I
think I was. I was blindsided and confused when I
left too, So uh it's yeah, I don't know. Well,
he's been getting so much criticism. UM, I got to
(25:01):
know from you, somebody who actually knows him. Do you
do you watch these episodes and you're like, oh, I'm
so glad I dodged this bullet Or do you have
more empathy than you think the average viewer does. It's
a little bit of both, because I think I think
knowing him, I expected a little bit better navigation of
(25:24):
some of these situations. And you know, like being someone
who said like I was in love with him, like
I felt like I knew him well enough to feel safe,
and I think kind of off. That's where Gabby was
coming from with that comment, And I would have hoped
that he would have never done something like that to me. Um.
And so I can see where the girls are coming from.
But also I have a lot of empathy for him,
(25:46):
because you know, this is his first time doing this,
and like, he didn't make it to these parts of
Michelle's season, and you know, I was thrown right into
it immediately, um, as soon as he got home. And
so I do have a lot of empathy for him. Umm.
They're like so many different moving parts, multiple people. UM.
(26:10):
I know that he had strong feelings for a lot
of people. And so it's just I think watching him
navigate it for the first time, like as someone that
knows him, and you know, I had gotten over it
and gotten my closure, like you know before the show
started airing, So it was more of hoping that he
(26:34):
did it to the best of his ability, because like
you know, you always care for someone and like you
know that the shoes that he's in, he's getting so
much criticism and like so much like unnecessary hate. So
it's it's a little bit of both for me, Like
I'm glad I wasn't there. I do think everything happens
for a reason. Um, seeing like more now like I'm
(26:56):
for sure like oh, there's no way that was ever
like the person and for me, But at the time,
like I do know him, I do like care for
his well being and his mental health, and like I do,
like you know, I was it was hard sitting there
at the women until all and hearing some of the
stuff that was being said too, And you know, it
(27:18):
sucks when some of it's true and like some of
it's like warranted. It doesn't make it feel any better
to like watch someone just be repeatedly like kind of
harped on for the same things, but like you know,
he is accepting of his um reactions and you know
how he's like navigated through all of this and he's
(27:40):
like learning from it. And I think that's like you
can ask from him. Yes, all said and done. You
know that is totally true. And like he said last night,
he was like, I have learned more in like the
past five months than basically ever before. Five years is
five years in five months? Okay, thank you for the
(28:01):
exact quote. Um, So I gotta know your take on
the way that he spoke as Susie last week, because
that's what I really can't get over when I see
the two of them together Now, I'm like, how did
she get over that? If I can't get over that? Yeah,
I mean it was hard like watching that, Like he said,
(28:26):
he didn't know who he was looking at, and my mouth,
I don't know where you are at because like I
dated him too, like I was two, and I was
like who is that? Like I didn't know there, and
so that was like really scary, you know, knowing that
you can go through this process, I can get that
far and like not see you know, there's a dark
(28:49):
start something that they might need to work on. Too,
but um, yeah, no, that was tough. And Susie is
an absolute angel. She's so calm while spoken. She was
like my roommate the entire time. So proud of how
she handled herself through that. Um, I don't know how
I would have been, but I think she was incredible
(29:12):
and um really proud of her for that. But yeah, no,
that was insane to watch. Like, I was super uncomfortable
with it and super shocked. I had no idea that
that was coming, you know. I was like, Okay, maybe
it's a disagreement, maybe it's a fight, but those words
were they were so hurtful. Um, it was. It was
really hard to watch for sure. All Right, well, I
(29:34):
want to talk to you more about Susie and Clayton
and their relationship. We got to take a quick break,
so we'll talk about that right after this. If you
missed it, we had Caitlin Bristow on the podcast yesterday.
I go check out the episode. We had so much fun.
As you probably heard, I've been referencing the conversation a
(29:56):
zillion times. We had some poignant thoughts on this season
of the Bachelor to our listeners, are like a nice
glass of wine, like Caitlin like or two or three
your whole bottle all good? Um uh, if you like that,
if you like one, you like The Bachelor, and you
like embarrassing stories. Check out Caitlin's podcast Off the Vine.
Whether that's talking about the importance of self care, letting
(30:18):
go of shame, the comparison game, the comparison game we
all feel that um or the hardships of feeling misunderstood.
Caitlin isn't holding back. She's talking about all of that
stuff every Tuesday and Thursday. Get ready, as the co
host of the Bachelorette takes us through her wild world
of dance, vino, the Bachelor, celeb friends, more vino, and
(30:43):
anything else that comes into her life, like her new fiance, Oh,
Jason Tarctic. What a cute couple they are. So she's
gonna talk about all this stuff and you're gonna get
some good laughs, you're gonna get some unfiltered advice, and
more importantly, you're gonna find ways to empower pe pool
because Caitlin does a great job empowering people. Um, and
(31:03):
you're gonna get fueled by some liquid courage. It's a
celebration of life backstage behind the social media curtain, listened
to Off the Vine wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, Serene,
when did you find out that Clayton and Susie were
rekindling things? Because you say that you guys are roommates,
(31:26):
so you must have a relationship outside of the Bachelor
bubble as well, Right, Um, I didn't never really ask
any questions because I didn't want it to know, um
with any of the top three. So I found out
like this week. Okay, I'm so confused. You guys, we
knew everything. We had this big Bachelor message and we
(31:48):
were just like blah blah blah blah blah, Like I
knew the entire way that this is going to unfold
the season when I was on the show, and now
you tell me this. And then Jill because she's from
Rhode Island and then we hang out. She's like best
friends of the Rachel and I asked her just a
couple of days ago. I was like, so like, but
you know, like what happens with Rachel? Right, And she's like, no,
(32:10):
I really don't, like what do you mean? Like why
are you guys asking these things? Like good for you?
You're watching like fans, and I like that. Well, there was,
Like I mean, honestly, there was so much love between
all of us that we were all I think everyone
was so respecting of everyone is respectful. It just really
feels respectful. Like the top four of us didn't even
(32:32):
get added to like the big group chat until like
way after everyone else because people were kind of like
scared of it. Are you okay? Like do you fuck? Like?
I don't know? Um, yeah, And I think for me,
I didn't know like if I asked someone like, am
I asking someone to like spill the beans on their
(32:53):
heartbreak and maybe they're not ready to talk about it yet,
I've had no clue. Well, you guys were right. The
way that everything ended for these girls was scary. You know,
it's something that they wouldn't want to talk about with
the group for a while. Glad I didn't cry because
all right, Well, then this week when you found out
(33:14):
that they were together, what were your thoughts, especially since
you found this out while you're watching this happen on TV,
Because if you're like the average fan, I think we're
all like, really, Susie, are you sure? Yeah? That's the
thing is like I like knowing Susie and like being
(33:36):
so close with her, like I trust her judgment and
like her decision making, and like I know that she
will stand up for herself through and through. I know
that the conversations that they will have had to have,
you know, before all of this, you know, within the
couple of months, had to have been you know, big
enough for them to be together right now. You know,
(34:00):
was able to state her piece and like calmly leave
and then even after that, still having the feelings that
she had for him, even though they were a little
different than his. You know, I felt like her feelings
were maybe a little jaded at that point. You know.
Just that was like my interpretation of it is, it's
like you don't want like this magical moment, like a
(34:21):
proposal starting of forever, to be meddled by like everything
that we just went through. And I think the way
that she said that was, you know, she has such
a way with words, like she's so good at expressing herself,
and um, I think knowing her the conversations that they
will have had in private up to this point, I
(34:42):
think that you know, she's making an educated decision for herself. Um,
I don't know, you know, I haven't had a chance
to talk to her since then, and I can't wait
to coloring it, you know a little more of the details,
since you know, we were so close in the house
and everything. But um, you know, I think if after
all this, she's decided, you know, to reach out to him.
(35:06):
They said that she reached out to him, you know,
she decided to reach out to him, and they had
those conversations. She did say it sounded like they had
been like working on building a new foundation, and I
was like, okay, girl, like snaps for you, like there,
it sounds like they're thinking things through, um and they've
(35:26):
really had like the time to talk a lot of
this stuff out. I think we were all shocked by it.
But at the end of the day, like I think
they're both just doing like what they want to do,
like their heart desires, you know what. They came into
this for um and you know, they didn't leave like engaged,
(35:47):
and so I think it's good that they're like dating
and like trying to navigate this as like a normal couple. Now. Yeah,
my biggest question for them, and I'm interviewing them like
about an hour, is Susie, how did you get from
being at that altar and saying you're not my person.
I don't even love you enough to date you, or
(36:07):
I don't even like basically like I don't even like
you enough to date you. I know, I know we
skipped over that part a little bit happening last night
that I just know to where you are now to
d ming him right, like I really want to know,
like what happened in your head? And it wasn't just that,
(36:29):
it wasn't just like you know, I discovered you're not
my person. It's also the whole conversation that they had
last week where it's like I won't be able to
get over the hump of you saying like have you
sleeping with other people? And was saying I love you?
So it's like all these things, it's like, Susie, how
did you get over and just d m M yeah,
(36:50):
I think you like the timing of I think the
sleeping with other people and saying I love you too
multiple people. I think it was more timing thing of
like don't want to get engaged to you. Two days
after that happened, like, well do you think that that
was really an engagement thing? Like he did pull out
the ring, which was kind of he but he probably
(37:11):
shook the core I did. He pulled out that ring.
I was like, God, I hope there's not a camera
on my face right now because I'm shocked. Um, the
whole scene was awkward. Okay. When they were like going
to meet up to like have this final conversation, I
thought it would be like on a bench in Iceland,
you know, in like a cute cafe, and well, no,
(37:33):
it was a full blown Bachelor finale rose ceremony. It
was stunning in there. She whore the big gown, he
had the ring in his pocket, Like, I just was
not expecting this, And I wonder if Susie was expecting that,
because that would have thrown me off and made me
so much more nervous. I mean, she had to have
expected it. Did you see what she looked like? But
he looked like she was ready to get married right there,
(37:56):
like Donny, like she had to, like she had to know,
you're right. The dress, It's like, I don't know like that.
I was literally thinking about that too, Like she got ready,
like looks gorgeous, like dressed to the nines, Like what
was she thinking was going to happen? I can't wait
(38:17):
to listen to what to y'all's conversation. Thank you for
adding that question now to my list. I didn't even
think like she had to put that gown on, so
she definitely expected to look like a final rose ceremony,
which just adds the pressure to the conversation. It's like
at an altar, I'm going to tell this man no,
(38:38):
thank you. I mean, there could have been a chance
that she thought like, Okay, he's just gonna like offer
me the rose, like, but he had a ring in
his pocket, Like I had no clue. I think that
was really just to get the Neil Lane name in there. Yeah,
shout out to Lane though we love him, he's so great. Yeah. Literally,
(38:59):
Jesse was like, clear is about to pull the biggest
hail Mary, And I was like boom ring, And I
was like, Okay, that's not what I thought was gonna happen.
You know what question I've got to ask them, Um,
why did she say on the live show I would
have to be the one proposing. I don't know. I
(39:19):
think she was. That's just six Susie. She's just like
it just sounds just like blurted something and it honestly,
like the biggest personality biggest goofball wild person like, so
I think she's like, oh, this is madman, Like I
might be the one to propose, Like I don't know, Okay, alright,
(39:42):
that's cute. I feel I felt like that maybe didn't
carry as much weight as some people were thinking before.
I don't think. Okay, okay, so it won't be seeing
Susie be like being a modern woman, and we might
former Miss Virginia proposes to Clayton Eckert. All right, so
(40:07):
let's just talk briefly about something that I that we
kind of skipped over, and that was Rachel and Clayton's
sit down on the stage. My biggest takeaway from that
moment is just like how she's just like you never
loved us, Like, you know, I just don't believe I
don't believe you. That was the big line. I don't
(40:28):
believe you. And then we see her dad sitting there
like you know, Tony soprano. He I mean, come on, dude,
He's like, there's no way that he's not forcing himself
to have that much of a straight face. I think
it's natural, you really, It's like, oh, I don't think
she's worried about the cameras looking at him or or America.
(40:50):
But it's such a straight face. It almost looks like acting.
He's like the security guard in the front row of
a concert contest. Yeah, so funny. Anything. Do you do
you feel like that stood out to you other than
that moment or she said like you never loved us? Yeah,
I think, Um, I think I'm really proud of Rachel
(41:13):
for like standing up for herself. And that was something
I kind of saw coming because you know, with one person,
they were a little more angry up front, and then
they had you know, Gabby had a conversation with him
and has had a lot more time to like think about,
you know, what she wanted to say and stuff like that,
because she said so much of it in the moment um.
(41:34):
And then with Rachel, like I've definitely been Rachel in
a situation before where you're so emotional at first and
then you're like angry later you actually like, you know,
your your vision is like foggy, you know, with all
of this emotion, and then like like what was that?
You know, Yeah, I think you try to put yourself
(41:54):
in those shoes, and I think that's what Rachel did.
She loved him so much that she couldn't imagine doing
the things that he did. And so to her, the
answer is, you weren't in love with us, um, But
I think like love looks different to everyone. And that's
also something she said, is she's like, I don't even
know what like your definition of love is after this, Yeah,
(42:18):
and he continues to stand by, you know, the stand
by the fact that he he did love them. He
says that she was the first person he said I
love you too in six years And she says, was
it to sleep with me? With me open element? Odd? Yeah, yeah,
(42:39):
it does not expect that one from her. But I
think he was just living in the moment and he
wasn't thinking like, he wasn't thinking things through. I think
he just he took experience all of this very literally
and experience stall of it. Yeah. Yeah, could you imagine
(43:03):
being her dad and there's just like all this sex talk. No, no,
I was like across from him and like pet him.
He was like looking at the floor a lot of
the time, like he didn't like you can tell him
he didn't want to watch some of it. Every time
his baby girl was on the screen though, every time
(43:24):
she was on the screen, his eyes were so well.
I think we all hope to see more of him
and Gabby's grandfather as part of the season. We don't
want to just see them at hometowns. We want to
see them throughout. It's Tony and Grandpa totally. Is his
name really Tony? I think so. I think it is, Yeah,
(43:48):
Tony Tony. Yes, that's awesome, Serene. Before I let you go,
let's talk about Jesse Palmer coming back as host for
the next season. How did you like him as host
and how was he in her life? Jesse is so kind,
he's so incredible, like so comforting. I remember being sent
(44:09):
home and he did that thing, he put his hands
together and he's like, Serene, it's time to see. There
could not have been a more comforting person to say
those words. I just remember kind of thinking like can
I hug you? He is so sweet, But there's something
so you're right comforting about him, Like I can't put
(44:32):
it up. He's just really easy to talk to you.
He's really comfortable to be around. Yeah. No, he's incredible.
He's so nice and he's definitely um very hands on,
like he actually talked to us. He wasn't just like
a host I mean I don't know like how the
other hosts were, but like, uh, he wasn't just a
host that showed up when it was time to show up.
(44:52):
Like I would see him around the hotel and he'd
be like, hey, he's done, what's up? Like, but you've
been up to Like he's just a very nice guy
like through um, so love that for him. I think
he'll do great. I also think, you know, with what
Rachel and Gabby went through, like he was there for that,
you know, so they're comfortable with him and that is
every Yes, yes, that's a good, good point. Alright, Sriene,
(45:17):
you have been a fantastic guest, a fantastic Bachelor contestant,
and we really hope to see you getting with one
of those cuties in Paradise. Clayton is rooting for you
to do you do here last week that he said
you're like the one person that he just is really
looking forward to finding love in Paradise, you know, if
(45:40):
you so choose to, that's so nice. And you know
he knows some of them, so I'm like, do you
know something I don't like? Spill the beans, Clayton, okid,
I'm sure, I'm sure, you'll get word from Susie soon enough.
Oh my gosh, thanks so much for being here. By.
Oh wait, this is how we have to sign off.
(46:02):
Ben would be so disappointed if I decided to just
say bye, okay, this is how we do it. I've
been Ashley, oh and I've been set yeay, awesome. We're
so proud of people when they get the hang of it.
I don't know why too long. No, it didn't. It's
(46:22):
the weirdest thing. It's just something that's stuck. By followed
the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on I
Heart Radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
This is the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast
with IR Radio. Hi everyone, welcome to like the zillion
Almost Famous podcast this week, because after this one we
have another one. So today, right now, today I'm with
the beautiful Serene, and then in a couple hours I'm
(00:21):
gonna be with Clayton and Susie, So stay tuned for
that episode. But hello, Serene, let's talk about this finale. Um,
after watching the past two weeks, back, the two weeks
that you weren't a part of in real life, what
are your feelings about everything? Are you glad you were
eliminated when you were That's the million dollar question, right, Yeah,
(00:46):
I kind of left before everything hit the fan, and
you know, I was so sad and heartbroken at the time,
and obviously time helped with that. But UM, yeah, I'm
glad I wasn't there. When did you feel recovered from
the heartbreak? Um? You know, maybe like a month after
(01:07):
I had left, Um, a month and a half. Um,
I had a lot of time to reflect and think.
I'm a teacher and so I didn't come back teaching
until the next semester started, and so I had some
time off. Okay, Well, during your hometown. Everyone fell in
love with your brother. He's awesome. There was like chance
(01:28):
that we should have him be the next Bachelor. How
did he take that last week two weeks ago? Oh
my goodness. He is like still so shocked with everything. Um,
he is just excited to be here. He was last night.
He was with me last night too, So it's a
whole new world. I'm a little more used to it
(01:49):
at this point than he is. But oh, it would
be so fun. Okay, I'm gonna plant an idea that's
probably already in the producer's heads, but I want to
put it out there to the public. Why don't you
bring him to Bachelor in Paradise with you? Like I
brought my sister to Bachelor in Paradise. It's been done before.
(02:09):
Oh my goodness. Um, yeah, he's a good time. He's
a good time. So we're doing this. He's my brother,
and so I'm like, I don't know, I don't know,
I don't know, but you know, I'm trying to let
him live in his moment and of his own experiences too,
so you can have separate experiences in Paradise. Right, I'm like,
(02:33):
I don't want you to see me kiss anyone the
palm tree, right exactly? Okay, Well, Um, overall, how would
you say your your bachelor experience has been and and
are you willing to do Paradise? Yeah? I actually had
(02:55):
a really good experience. You know, aside from it being
really hard leaving at the time and feeling like I
didn't have what I needed in that in those moments leaving, um,
it ended up being a really good experience. I learned
so much about myself. You know, so many friends that
you know, we've gone through this crazy experience together. No
(03:16):
one else really understands like what we just went through,
and so we're all really tighten it. Um. So it
was a wonderful experience. Would do it again? Um, I
honestly would love to go to Paradise. Um. I am
still you know, single and still wanting to find my guy,
(03:37):
and you know, there are some cuties out there, so
I'm just hopeful and excited that I'll get to be there.
You can't say there are some cuties without naming who
you think is cute. Oh god, on see, I shot
myself in this. Um. Yeah, I'm mean there are multiple.
(04:01):
It's just hard though, because I'm so big on personality
that I don't want to say anything and then be
like glued to it because I feel like, you know,
I can think someone's attractive and then meet them and
then it's just like not the vibe, you know what
I mean? So big on personalities, So it's I don't know,
it's kind of hard to say, but there there are
a couple. Okay, well that's a great way of getting
(04:21):
out of answering that question. I'll give you one more chance.
Who do you think it's cute? Now? It's okay, I
already put you on the spot. It's fine, it's fine,
We'll we'll find out soon enough. I'm sure who you're into.
Who you ask the producers that you want to be there,
And there's a whole other season of guys that you'll
get to choose from. When you see your friends Gabby
(04:43):
and Rachel become bachelorette, and then you'll get their quote
quote rejects. How okay, how do you feel about Gabby
and Rachel both being Bachelorette? I need to give my
little two cents on this. Ever since Caitlin and Um
and britt we're you know, seven years ago both chosen
(05:03):
the Bachelorette, I thought this is how that season was
going to go. When I initially heard two bachelorettes, I
was like, oh, okay, they'll like date together. It will
be like, oh, group date with Gabby, a group date
with Rachel. That's very much the way that Joe Millionaire
went this year. I wonder if they were inspired by that. Okay,
so I said that sounds a cool idea, and then
(05:25):
they ended up having to choose, you know, between Caitlin
and Britt and then that was like not so cool.
But ever since I had you know, not just me,
but like that idea was planted that two girls could
date the group at the same time. I thought they
should do that. So I'm really excited, and I think
like Rachel and Gabby are both very likable. I think
(05:45):
we would be sad for the other one if they
didn't get the opportunity. So back to my question for you,
how do you feel about your I'm assuming two friends
becoming the bachelorette together. I love them both so much,
and I don't think that there was a better scenario.
(06:05):
Like at all, um, I hadn't thought about the chance
of their being two of them, just because we had
to last the last two seasons, so I wasn't really sure,
like what that minute here about it, But I'm so
happy for both of them. They so deserve it. They
are both like the kindest, most funny women. They're gonna
(06:30):
be entertaining to watch. And you know, I'm here for
the love stories to like it's living in the house
with him. I fell in love with them, you know,
So I think it will be so easy for the
audience to do the same, for thirty men to do
the same. They're both incredible. It is going to be
so interesting to watch. I wonder how it's going to work.
(06:51):
I did not watch Joe Millionaire, but I've heard about it.
But you know, I've seen the tweets of people being
like that would be interesting, um, and now it's happening.
So do they have similar taste in men? Do we
know their type outside of Clayton? I, you know, I
think that they're so different in every way. Yeah, they
(07:13):
really are both obviously dated Clayton and so, and you
know they had they were both really invested in their
relationships with him, and so I think there might be
a little bit of crossing over. But they have the
same type. I can already foresee. It's ord they're gonna
(07:34):
both like one guy. He's gonna well, they're like gonna
be really invested in one guy. And I'm sure like
they'll each have like a couple, you know, individually, but
then there's gonna be this one guy who both of
them want to take the top three, and then he's
gonna say I love them both. Yeah, but like that's
(07:55):
so it's crazy to think though, like are they going
to have to pick like for hometowns, like or the
guys going to have to pick who they go with?
Or can they go with both or like I'm sure
they're going to kind of make it up as they go.
Whatever is the most dramatic scenario. They'll probably go. Yeah,
oh my goodness, wild to think about. Craziness. All right, seriously,
(08:19):
so many It's gonna keep each week interesting and I
love that. We definitely need something fresh. I'm excited. I
think they're going to get a boost in viewers because
of it. Let's take a quick break and we will
go through this finale straight through. All right. Let's start
(08:48):
with Clayton Um talking to Susie. Basically she comes to
his room or I guess Jesse comes to Susie's room
and is like, so, Clayton really wants to be with you, basically,
and then she knocks on the door. She says hello
quickly to his parents, pulls him aside, and that's when
(09:09):
he's basically like, I'm going I just want to be
with you. I love you the most again, right, you
know I still love you the most. And then she's
he basically says in that moment, I'm going to dump
the other girls because like I want to be with you.
(09:30):
Even if it turns out that you don't want to
be with me, I'm gonna let you go and linger
this over and um yeah, but my decisions made like
it's you or nothing. So then he goes and he
breaks up with the other girls together. What are your
thoughts on this? Why does he do everything together? Why
(09:51):
are all these big moments together. I have to say,
like Caitlin Bristow and I were talking a little bit yesterday,
it just seems like, you know, the poor guy was
very had no backbone with like production suggestions. I honestly like,
I have no clue because I never would have done that.
(10:13):
And I know it's easy to say that having not
been in his shoes. But I just I can't imagine
the scenario of breaking up with people in a group
like that. Um I mean I even thought like telling
you know them you love them in a group together,
even though he had said it like separately, I wouldn't
(10:36):
have done that either, because in turn you end up
having to have two separate conversations. Anyway, Um, I was
so like that was what I was in the most
shocked by. I mean, I think pretty much every I think, yeah,
that was the moment that was the most jaw dropping.
It was like, Okay, I saw him wanting to be
(10:57):
with Susie and like, you know, like trying to pursue
that all the way. But I didn't foresee this group
break up. I think, you know, and I think no
matter what it was going to be, you know, it
already turned into a mess. It was going to be heartbreaking,
um for whoever. And that was going to be hard
decision and uncomfortable decision for him. But at the same time,
(11:19):
like I get it, like follow your heart, like if
you feel sick, like you can't choose the other two,
Like I get it, But the breaking up with them
at the same time thing was what I was the
most jarred by. Um I it was really hard to watch.
And then it's like, Okay, you're leaving with someone to
(11:39):
go check on them, and then leaving someone there. I
just thought that there should have been like two separate conversations.
I mean, it's for me to say like what I
would have done, but like, I'm not the Bachelor, but
like that I didn't agree with that, and that was
it was really hard to watch. Yeah, we've seen similar
situations where the Bachelor, the lead would ever go and
(12:00):
breaks up with multiple people at this point in the
cool competition process process, and it's always them like knocking
on separate doors. So very very bizarre. And it's and
when people I'm assuming when people say, like the way
that he treated like there's lots of comments online being
(12:20):
like I can't believe the way that he treated Gabby
in Rachel. What's your take on that? Because my take
is the fact that he's doing this in a group
setting and like not treating them like with a lot
of empathy I think. But like, I think people need
(12:41):
to realize this is something that Caitlin and I were
talking about yesterday. This is still the process, This is
still the Bachelor process, we still eliminate people down to
the person that we want to be with. And I
think that like somewhere along the way in the past
couple of weeks that was muddled and maybe in again,
like guys, I keep referencing the Caitlin conversation, but we
(13:03):
didn't really break this down. I think that possibly that's
because we're rooting for these girls harder than we're rooting
for Clayton. And that's probably because we didn't really know Clayton,
because you know, we didn't get attached to him on
a previous season. So here we are knowing the girls
just as much as him, And I think that people
(13:26):
are kind of forgetting that this is the bachelor process,
like he has to dump people in order to be
with the person who wants to be with. Yeah, I know,
so true. There is something I've been thinking about also though,
like as far as like you know, empathy and like
thinking things through. He didn't go to hometowns, he didn't
go to fantasy suites. Yeah, that's that's the thing. He
doesn't know how that feels, how it feels, um, you know,
(13:51):
I'm sure he had an idea of like how invested
they both were, like you could see it in his
face when he talked to them, But um, yeah, I
mean I think it was just you know, it's his
first time doing this and so he wasn't really you know,
I think at the time he thought he was doing
the best thing. Um. I really have to wonder with him,
(14:13):
you know, deciding to go in there in a group,
like did we all know that he was just going
to go break up with them together or did anybody
say maybe we should have separate conversations or was he like, no,
this is how I want to do it. I don't know,
He's like, I want to rub the band right off.
I don't want you this twice, like he had to
have two separate conversations anyways, So, um, I don't know.
(14:37):
It's so tough and it's I that was like the
hardest part for me to watch, especially like them both
being my friends and like, you know, convincing Gabby to
stay like she wanted to leave, And like my issue
is that too, that there's the issue is like just
(14:57):
begging for her to stay, saying that like staying is
a testament to the relationship. That's like a whole different
thing though, because then you get to like the elimination
of it all, Like that is part of the process.
Like when I got broken up with my whole thing
was I'm not mad you're breaking up with me. I'm
mad that like I feel like you're not really giving
me answers. That's where I remember you saying that, and
(15:18):
so it's like, you know, I think for them it
was probably similar a lot more painful because you know
they did have that intimate time and like hours on
end together with like no interruption. But like it's just
it's so tough to think about, like not like being
addressed in a group so often. It kind of like
(15:43):
do not feel like an individual? Yeah, well I'm thinking yeah,
I just like Gabby says, you know, you took two
days away from me that I could have been with
my friends and family. And I totally see that side
where it's like you dragged me on for another two
days after begging me to stay. That's so messed up.
(16:05):
But ag'in to play Devil's Out Avoca. It's kind of
the process. It's like you need the yeah, you need
like the amount of days that you need to make
the decision. I still love Gab. I love the way
that Gabby handled herself in that moment. She just was
like no, Bis, she was like, no, yeah, I don't
really want to hear it from you. You're like, you're
I'm over I'm really over this. I think they handled
(16:26):
this brig up exactly how we imagined, which was basically
how they didn't last. The previous night's episode, Rachel extremely emotional,
just like would do anything to stay with him, and
then Gabby just being like nah, goodbye. She just I
feel like she really knew her worth. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Um.
(16:50):
I knew Rachel was going to be a little harder
to watch just because I know Rachel. Um. I knew
Gabby would probably have a different ever reaction. Um, I
was trying to think. I'm like, how would I react
in this situation? And I feel like I would have
been a little more like Gabby. So that's awesome. Caitlin
(17:11):
and I were saying, we wish we could be Gabby,
but we know we'd be Rachel. I know I would
be Rachel, justly Rachel. Behind the scenes. I like, I
don't know if you saw my face when I left,
I was stone cold, and then I got I cried
as soon as I walked into the hose. Well good
through you. I love that you're able to keep the
(17:33):
poise and then break down. That is an admirable quality
I wish I had. Oh no, I wasn't trying, Like
I was just shocked, so like I didn't hit you.
Then I was extended a little like Piste at the
same time. Um yeah, it was. It was. I knew
Rachel was going to be really hard to watch, Like
I had tears in my eyes. I'm like trying to
(17:53):
like suck them back into my eyeballs, like watching last night.
Um yeah, but I I mean I know, ultimately, you know,
it comes down to the decision. It comes down to
the process, and like if Susie was still there, and
Susie ended up meeting the family even briefly, and that's
what he decided he wanted. I don't think either of
them had an issue with that being his choice. It
(18:17):
was just like the way that he got to that
choice and the way he navigated the decisions, like prior
to that, what was what like that was what was
so hurtful? I think, um, because like no one wants
to be chosen just because someone else isn't there, and
they both made that, you know, and I think just
like the process that, like the actual process that was chosen,
(18:41):
like the path that was chosen to get there, is
what was so tough to watch and just so hard
for both of them, you know, a little synopsis of
Gabby and Clayton on stage together with Jesse Um. Gabby
tells Clayton that watching it back makes her feel super misled.
(19:02):
She said she wasn't given all the information, especially when
she was deciding whether she wanted to leave or not.
And she said, that's what hurts the most. She feels betrayed.
And he said, there's nothing, um, I can do more
than apologize. And he says, watching it back, you know,
he wished he could have handled it differently and didn't
have any bad intentions. When she says that she wasn't
given all the information, is that the fact that what? What?
(19:26):
Is that? What? What didn't she say? I guess I
guess that he loved that. He said, yeah, he forgot
to tell them. I love you both, but I love
Susie the most. That's that's a big missing part. Yeah,
I think you know, even watching you know, the Fantasy
suitet dates. By the end of each of them I
(19:47):
was like, they each think they're the one, right, definitely
think they're the one, which is like, you know, I
assume part of the normal experience. Yeah, if you've been,
if you're hold I love you in the fantasy suite,
you're pretty sure that you're the one. Yeah. Yeah. So um,
I don't know. I don't know exactly what she meant
(20:10):
by that. I mean there was a lot of information
left out there was you know, I think he was
so focused on trying to keep them there that he
was just sharing, you know, like I don't want you
to leave, like I want to see this through with you.
But then the other side of that was I guess
(20:31):
he wasn't being like fully transparent about like his other feelings,
like yeah, I'm shattered Susie's gone, but like I still
want to explore this with you. But like in his
mind he was like, oh my goodness, this might be
like over for me. I guess, I guess. But maybe
am I like giving him too much credit and thinking that,
like it maybe didn't dawn on him that he wanted
(20:51):
to go after Susie until after the two met his family.
I think he did, but he was so mad when
she had that conversation with him at the end of
their date, like that kind of blinded his view of
like what you really wanted, and he was like reacting,
(21:12):
I think to that and just trying to move on
from that. Like you see him shut the door and
he's like everything happens for a reason. Um, And so
I think maybe his mind changed or maybe he thought
differently in that moment, but it was just like a
rush of emotions and like his true feelings of like okay,
like I do love you the most, We're still there. Yeah,
(21:35):
like he needed time to soften a little bit, right right, Yeah, okay.
So then one other last thing about Gabby and Clayton
up on stage together. Um, Clayton says, I want you
to know that I did have love for all of you.
And then Gabby says, when you say love someone, you're
you're assuming responsibility to love them and to care for them,
(21:56):
and you didn't do any of those things. What do
you think about him actually truly being in love and
using Like I I kind of I agree with her.
I was I was talking to yesterday. I really think
that he was in lust with all of them and
was just getting really confused because it didn't really seem
like love, especially when we see the behavior. I don't know,
(22:20):
and it's like, I've never been in love with multiple
people at once. I've never thought I was in love
with multi multiple people at once. So it's hard to
imagine like where he's coming from with that. And like
I thought it was interesting too when Gabby, you know,
said I do think I could fall in love with
more than one person. Yeah, She's like, I might just
(22:42):
like navigate it differently or something. I can't believe these
girls are totally going to be haunted by this. There's
gonna be multiple loves in this upcoming season. Yeah, um yeah.
But I think I think my issue was more of
I had love for both of you. It's like you're
still putting them in a group when you're having a
singular conversation. And I was like, again, but I do
(23:09):
think he deeply cared for them. I mean, and I'm
saying that too because I left right before all of this,
like I felt like he maybe could love me too,
and so I think it's just he had like a
wild experience and like wasn't prepared for all of that.
I mean, I can't, I can't, even like I think,
(23:35):
you know, falling in love and being in love are
different things. I get confused on you know, he said
he was in love or falling in love to who
or what? Like, I get confused about all of that.
I think he said he loved them both and he
was falling in love with both of them, but so
(23:57):
many different ways of saying it. On The Bachelor, Yeah, yeah,
I think you know, to be in love with someone
like that, you would be a little more I don't know,
respect their boundaries at that time. You know, someone says
I'm done, like there's still multiple people there and like
you're fighting for all of them. Like I think that
(24:21):
there was love there, but like what that looks like
for him, Like I don't know. Rachel something about like
she didn't know what his definition of love was, Like
I don't, I have no clue, Like I'm confused as
the rest of us by all of this. Um, yeah,
well you know the man, So that makes me feel
(24:41):
like I can listen to your opinion with like a
little bit more strength. Yeah, yeah, for sure, And I
think I was. I was blindsided and confused when I
left too, So uh it's yeah, I don't know. Well,
he's been getting so much criticism. UM, I got to
(25:01):
know from you, somebody who actually knows him. Do you
do you watch these episodes and you're like, oh, I'm
so glad I dodged this bullet Or do you have
more empathy than you think the average viewer does. It's
a little bit of both, because I think I think
knowing him, I expected a little bit better navigation of
(25:24):
some of these situations. And you know, like being someone
who said like I was in love with him, like
I felt like I knew him well enough to feel safe,
and I think kind of off. That's where Gabby was
coming from with that comment, And I would have hoped
that he would have never done something like that to me. Um.
And so I can see where the girls are coming from.
But also I have a lot of empathy for him,
(25:46):
because you know, this is his first time doing this,
and like, he didn't make it to these parts of
Michelle's season, and you know, I was thrown right into
it immediately, um, as soon as he got home. And
so I do have a lot of empathy for him. Umm.
They're like so many different moving parts, multiple people. UM.
(26:10):
I know that he had strong feelings for a lot
of people. And so it's just I think watching him
navigate it for the first time, like as someone that
knows him, and you know, I had gotten over it
and gotten my closure, like you know before the show
started airing, So it was more of hoping that he
(26:34):
did it to the best of his ability, because like
you know, you always care for someone and like you
know that the shoes that he's in, he's getting so
much criticism and like so much like unnecessary hate. So
it's it's a little bit of both for me, Like
I'm glad I wasn't there. I do think everything happens
for a reason. Um, seeing like more now like I'm
(26:56):
for sure like oh, there's no way that was ever
like the person and for me, But at the time,
like I do know him, I do like care for
his well being and his mental health, and like I do,
like you know, I was it was hard sitting there
at the women until all and hearing some of the
stuff that was being said too, And you know, it
(27:18):
sucks when some of it's true and like some of
it's like warranted. It doesn't make it feel any better
to like watch someone just be repeatedly like kind of
harped on for the same things, but like you know,
he is accepting of his um reactions and you know
how he's like navigated through all of this and he's
(27:40):
like learning from it. And I think that's like you
can ask from him. Yes, all said and done. You
know that is totally true. And like he said last night,
he was like, I have learned more in like the
past five months than basically ever before. Five years is
five years in five months? Okay, thank you for the
(28:01):
exact quote. Um, So I gotta know your take on
the way that he spoke as Susie last week, because
that's what I really can't get over when I see
the two of them together Now, I'm like, how did
she get over that? If I can't get over that? Yeah,
I mean it was hard like watching that, Like he said,
(28:26):
he didn't know who he was looking at, and my mouth,
I don't know where you are at because like I
dated him too, like I was two, and I was
like who is that? Like I didn't know there, and
so that was like really scary, you know, knowing that
you can go through this process, I can get that
far and like not see you know, there's a dark
(28:49):
start something that they might need to work on. Too,
but um, yeah, no, that was tough. And Susie is
an absolute angel. She's so calm while spoken. She was
like my roommate the entire time. So proud of how
she handled herself through that. Um, I don't know how
I would have been, but I think she was incredible
(29:12):
and um really proud of her for that. But yeah, no,
that was insane to watch. Like, I was super uncomfortable
with it and super shocked. I had no idea that
that was coming, you know. I was like, Okay, maybe
it's a disagreement, maybe it's a fight, but those words
were they were so hurtful. Um, it was. It was
really hard to watch for sure. All Right, well, I
(29:34):
want to talk to you more about Susie and Clayton
and their relationship. We got to take a quick break,
so we'll talk about that right after this. If you
missed it, we had Caitlin Bristow on the podcast yesterday.
I go check out the episode. We had so much fun.
As you probably heard, I've been referencing the conversation a
(29:56):
zillion times. We had some poignant thoughts on this season
of the Bachelor to our listeners, are like a nice
glass of wine, like Caitlin like or two or three
your whole bottle all good? Um uh, if you like that,
if you like one, you like The Bachelor, and you
like embarrassing stories. Check out Caitlin's podcast Off the Vine.
Whether that's talking about the importance of self care, letting
(30:18):
go of shame, the comparison game, the comparison game we
all feel that um or the hardships of feeling misunderstood.
Caitlin isn't holding back. She's talking about all of that
stuff every Tuesday and Thursday. Get ready, as the co
host of the Bachelorette takes us through her wild world
of dance, vino, the Bachelor, celeb friends, more vino, and
(30:43):
anything else that comes into her life, like her new fiance, Oh,
Jason Tarctic. What a cute couple they are. So she's
gonna talk about all this stuff and you're gonna get
some good laughs, you're gonna get some unfiltered advice, and
more importantly, you're gonna find ways to empower pe pool
because Caitlin does a great job empowering people. Um, and
(31:03):
you're gonna get fueled by some liquid courage. It's a
celebration of life backstage behind the social media curtain, listened
to Off the Vine wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, Serene,
when did you find out that Clayton and Susie were
rekindling things? Because you say that you guys are roommates,
(31:26):
so you must have a relationship outside of the Bachelor
bubble as well, Right, Um, I didn't never really ask
any questions because I didn't want it to know, um
with any of the top three. So I found out
like this week. Okay, I'm so confused. You guys, we
knew everything. We had this big Bachelor message and we
(31:48):
were just like blah blah blah blah blah, Like I
knew the entire way that this is going to unfold
the season when I was on the show, and now
you tell me this. And then Jill because she's from
Rhode Island and then we hang out. She's like best
friends of the Rachel and I asked her just a
couple of days ago. I was like, so like, but
you know, like what happens with Rachel? Right, And she's like, no,
(32:10):
I really don't, like what do you mean? Like why
are you guys asking these things? Like good for you?
You're watching like fans, and I like that. Well, there was,
Like I mean, honestly, there was so much love between
all of us that we were all I think everyone
was so respecting of everyone is respectful. It just really
feels respectful. Like the top four of us didn't even
(32:32):
get added to like the big group chat until like
way after everyone else because people were kind of like
scared of it. Are you okay? Like do you fuck? Like?
I don't know? Um, yeah, And I think for me,
I didn't know like if I asked someone like, am
I asking someone to like spill the beans on their
(32:53):
heartbreak and maybe they're not ready to talk about it yet,
I've had no clue. Well, you guys were right. The
way that everything ended for these girls was scary. You know,
it's something that they wouldn't want to talk about with
the group for a while. Glad I didn't cry because
all right, Well, then this week when you found out
(33:14):
that they were together, what were your thoughts, especially since
you found this out while you're watching this happen on TV,
Because if you're like the average fan, I think we're
all like, really, Susie, are you sure? Yeah? That's the
thing is like I like knowing Susie and like being
(33:36):
so close with her, like I trust her judgment and
like her decision making, and like I know that she
will stand up for herself through and through. I know
that the conversations that they will have had to have,
you know, before all of this, you know, within the
couple of months, had to have been you know, big
enough for them to be together right now. You know,
(34:00):
was able to state her piece and like calmly leave
and then even after that, still having the feelings that
she had for him, even though they were a little
different than his. You know, I felt like her feelings
were maybe a little jaded at that point. You know.
Just that was like my interpretation of it is, it's
like you don't want like this magical moment, like a
(34:21):
proposal starting of forever, to be meddled by like everything
that we just went through. And I think the way
that she said that was, you know, she has such
a way with words, like she's so good at expressing herself,
and um, I think knowing her the conversations that they
will have had in private up to this point, I
(34:42):
think that you know, she's making an educated decision for herself. Um,
I don't know, you know, I haven't had a chance
to talk to her since then, and I can't wait
to coloring it, you know a little more of the details,
since you know, we were so close in the house
and everything. But um, you know, I think if after
all this, she's decided, you know, to reach out to him.
(35:06):
They said that she reached out to him, you know,
she decided to reach out to him, and they had
those conversations. She did say it sounded like they had
been like working on building a new foundation, and I
was like, okay, girl, like snaps for you, like there,
it sounds like they're thinking things through, um and they've
(35:26):
really had like the time to talk a lot of
this stuff out. I think we were all shocked by it.
But at the end of the day, like I think
they're both just doing like what they want to do,
like their heart desires, you know what. They came into
this for um and you know, they didn't leave like engaged,
(35:47):
and so I think it's good that they're like dating
and like trying to navigate this as like a normal couple. Now. Yeah,
my biggest question for them, and I'm interviewing them like
about an hour, is Susie, how did you get from
being at that altar and saying you're not my person.
I don't even love you enough to date you, or
(36:07):
I don't even like basically like I don't even like
you enough to date you. I know, I know we
skipped over that part a little bit happening last night
that I just know to where you are now to
d ming him right, like I really want to know,
like what happened in your head? And it wasn't just that,
(36:29):
it wasn't just like you know, I discovered you're not
my person. It's also the whole conversation that they had
last week where it's like I won't be able to
get over the hump of you saying like have you
sleeping with other people? And was saying I love you?
So it's like all these things, it's like, Susie, how
did you get over and just d m M yeah,
(36:50):
I think you like the timing of I think the
sleeping with other people and saying I love you too
multiple people. I think it was more timing thing of
like don't want to get engaged to you. Two days
after that happened, like, well do you think that that
was really an engagement thing? Like he did pull out
the ring, which was kind of he but he probably
(37:11):
shook the core I did. He pulled out that ring.
I was like, God, I hope there's not a camera
on my face right now because I'm shocked. Um, the
whole scene was awkward. Okay. When they were like going
to meet up to like have this final conversation, I
thought it would be like on a bench in Iceland,
you know, in like a cute cafe, and well, no,
(37:33):
it was a full blown Bachelor finale rose ceremony. It
was stunning in there. She whore the big gown, he
had the ring in his pocket, Like, I just was
not expecting this, And I wonder if Susie was expecting that,
because that would have thrown me off and made me
so much more nervous. I mean, she had to have
expected it. Did you see what she looked like? But
he looked like she was ready to get married right there,
(37:56):
like Donny, like she had to, like she had to know,
you're right. The dress, It's like, I don't know like that.
I was literally thinking about that too, Like she got ready,
like looks gorgeous, like dressed to the nines, Like what
was she thinking was going to happen? I can't wait
(38:17):
to listen to what to y'all's conversation. Thank you for
adding that question now to my list. I didn't even
think like she had to put that gown on, so
she definitely expected to look like a final rose ceremony,
which just adds the pressure to the conversation. It's like
at an altar, I'm going to tell this man no,
(38:38):
thank you. I mean, there could have been a chance
that she thought like, Okay, he's just gonna like offer
me the rose, like, but he had a ring in
his pocket, Like I had no clue. I think that
was really just to get the Neil Lane name in there. Yeah,
shout out to Lane though we love him, he's so great. Yeah. Literally,
(38:59):
Jesse was like, clear is about to pull the biggest
hail Mary, And I was like boom ring, And I
was like, Okay, that's not what I thought was gonna happen.
You know what question I've got to ask them, Um,
why did she say on the live show I would
have to be the one proposing. I don't know. I
(39:19):
think she was. That's just six Susie. She's just like
it just sounds just like blurted something and it honestly,
like the biggest personality biggest goofball wild person like, so
I think she's like, oh, this is madman, Like I
might be the one to propose, Like I don't know, Okay, alright,
(39:42):
that's cute. I feel I felt like that maybe didn't
carry as much weight as some people were thinking before.
I don't think. Okay, okay, so it won't be seeing
Susie be like being a modern woman, and we might
former Miss Virginia proposes to Clayton Eckert. All right, so
(40:07):
let's just talk briefly about something that I that we
kind of skipped over, and that was Rachel and Clayton's
sit down on the stage. My biggest takeaway from that
moment is just like how she's just like you never
loved us, Like, you know, I just don't believe I
don't believe you. That was the big line. I don't
(40:28):
believe you. And then we see her dad sitting there
like you know, Tony soprano. He I mean, come on, dude,
He's like, there's no way that he's not forcing himself
to have that much of a straight face. I think
it's natural, you really, It's like, oh, I don't think
she's worried about the cameras looking at him or or America.
(40:50):
But it's such a straight face. It almost looks like acting.
He's like the security guard in the front row of
a concert contest. Yeah, so funny. Anything. Do you do
you feel like that stood out to you other than
that moment or she said like you never loved us? Yeah,
I think, Um, I think I'm really proud of Rachel
(41:13):
for like standing up for herself. And that was something
I kind of saw coming because you know, with one person,
they were a little more angry up front, and then
they had you know, Gabby had a conversation with him
and has had a lot more time to like think about,
you know, what she wanted to say and stuff like that,
because she said so much of it in the moment um.
(41:34):
And then with Rachel, like I've definitely been Rachel in
a situation before where you're so emotional at first and
then you're like angry later you actually like, you know,
your your vision is like foggy, you know, with all
of this emotion, and then like like what was that?
You know, Yeah, I think you try to put yourself
(41:54):
in those shoes, and I think that's what Rachel did.
She loved him so much that she couldn't imagine doing
the things that he did. And so to her, the
answer is, you weren't in love with us, um, But
I think like love looks different to everyone. And that's
also something she said, is she's like, I don't even
know what like your definition of love is after this, Yeah,
(42:18):
and he continues to stand by, you know, the stand
by the fact that he he did love them. He
says that she was the first person he said I
love you too in six years And she says, was
it to sleep with me? With me open element? Odd? Yeah, yeah,
(42:39):
it does not expect that one from her. But I
think he was just living in the moment and he
wasn't thinking like, he wasn't thinking things through. I think
he just he took experience all of this very literally
and experience stall of it. Yeah. Yeah, could you imagine
(43:03):
being her dad and there's just like all this sex talk. No, no,
I was like across from him and like pet him.
He was like looking at the floor a lot of
the time, like he didn't like you can tell him
he didn't want to watch some of it. Every time
his baby girl was on the screen though, every time
(43:24):
she was on the screen, his eyes were so well.
I think we all hope to see more of him
and Gabby's grandfather as part of the season. We don't
want to just see them at hometowns. We want to
see them throughout. It's Tony and Grandpa totally. Is his
name really Tony? I think so. I think it is, Yeah,
(43:48):
Tony Tony. Yes, that's awesome, Serene. Before I let you go,
let's talk about Jesse Palmer coming back as host for
the next season. How did you like him as host
and how was he in her life? Jesse is so kind,
he's so incredible, like so comforting. I remember being sent
(44:09):
home and he did that thing, he put his hands
together and he's like, Serene, it's time to see. There
could not have been a more comforting person to say
those words. I just remember kind of thinking like can
I hug you? He is so sweet, But there's something
so you're right comforting about him, Like I can't put
(44:32):
it up. He's just really easy to talk to you.
He's really comfortable to be around. Yeah. No, he's incredible.
He's so nice and he's definitely um very hands on,
like he actually talked to us. He wasn't just like
a host I mean I don't know like how the
other hosts were, but like, uh, he wasn't just a
host that showed up when it was time to show up.
(44:52):
Like I would see him around the hotel and he'd
be like, hey, he's done, what's up? Like, but you've
been up to Like he's just a very nice guy
like through um, so love that for him. I think
he'll do great. I also think, you know, with what
Rachel and Gabby went through, like he was there for that,
you know, so they're comfortable with him and that is
every Yes, yes, that's a good, good point. Alright, Sriene,
(45:17):
you have been a fantastic guest, a fantastic Bachelor contestant,
and we really hope to see you getting with one
of those cuties in Paradise. Clayton is rooting for you
to do you do here last week that he said
you're like the one person that he just is really
looking forward to finding love in Paradise, you know, if
(45:40):
you so choose to, that's so nice. And you know
he knows some of them, so I'm like, do you
know something I don't like? Spill the beans, Clayton, okid,
I'm sure, I'm sure, you'll get word from Susie soon enough.
Oh my gosh, thanks so much for being here. By.
Oh wait, this is how we have to sign off.
(46:02):
Ben would be so disappointed if I decided to just
say bye, okay, this is how we do it. I've
been Ashley, oh and I've been set yeay, awesome. We're
so proud of people when they get the hang of it.
I don't know why too long. No, it didn't. It's
(46:22):
the weirdest thing. It's just something that's stuck. By followed
the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on I
Heart Radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Ben Higgins
Ashley Iaconetti
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